I want to talk in the final lecture about B.B. Warfield. B.B. Warfield, a bit of a hero.
If you have not read him I do commend him to you. His writings are available in a number
! of different collections. There is the ten volume edition that Oxford University Press
put together in the early 1930s that contains most of his longer writings. There is a two
volume set put together by Presbyterian Reform still in print, selected shorter writings
of B.B. Warfield, that was his more popular stuff. And there is, there were five volumes
of thematically organised Warfield writings put out by Presbyterian Reform I think in
the 1950s. They are out of print now but you might be able to get them second hand. If you
have Logos software you can get the complete B.B. Warfield for Logos which contains all
that and more. And Princeton Theological Seminary are at the moment scanning their entire archive
which will be available for free on the internet in the next few years. So all of the correspondence
etc. of B.B. Warfield will be freely available to anybody with a computer. They may be gastardly
liberals but they have a lot of money and they are making all this stuff available for the rest
of us. A very significant thing I think if you are looking for somebody who has real exegetical
acumen then B.B. Warfield is the man. He is famous for writing, you know most evangelicals
will know him for writing on the authority of scripture. But some of his most important
stuff I think are the articles, the long articles he did on the definition of biblical words.
also his essay on the emotional life of the Lord Jesus Christ is I think unprecedented
in Christian history and a very powerful piece. And his writings on perfectionism are important
as well. I had a student just recently did a long paper for me on perfectionism and it
struck me how little studied his writings on perfectionism have been and yet how perennially
important actually much of what he has to say there is. Interesting enough by a slightly
circuitous route I've ended up being the owner of probably the last letter that B.B. Warfield
ever wrote dated December the 21st 1920. He has a stroke just a few days after that and he
dies in early 1521. Warfield made it a letter to Professor Mackay at Free Church College in
Edinburgh. And Warfield, the letter is, he's just foaming at the mouth in this letter. He's
about to engage the perfectionist once again. And he's been reading up on the Keswick, he's
been reading the Keswick Week and he has some pretty harsh words over the Keswick Week. And
one gets the impression that he's gearing up for round three with the perfectionists. And
I often wonder, you know, did that help precipitate the stroke? He's pretty angry in this letter.
He's telling Mackay that he's coming out swinging against the perfectionists again and then a couple
of days later, sadly, he falls ill and then dies. But a lot of people don't know much about
his life, so I thought it would be a fairly laid back ending to reflect on his life.
The interesting thing about the Ferrari pulpit, does it kind of lift up if I press a button,
Paul? It's just rather flat. I'm going to put my wallet on the website. Sorry?
Well, I was going to say, if Paul actually paid me, it might be a little bigger. I was in
Northern Ireland and Chuck said, I'll give you a check for your speaker. I said, I speak
for Paul Levy. I'm quite used to the speaker to people who are not getting paid. You know,
trying to get the bank to accept the five per set of peace he gave me last time. It was
quite an effort. Anyway, B.B. Warfield, born November 5, 1851, near Lexington in Kentucky.
Born really to the extent that America has an aristocracy. Born really to sort of American
aristocracy. He was the result of the convergence of two great families, the Breckenridges and
the Warfields. A bit of trivia, if you look up Warfield, if you're looking for Warfield
books second hand, you type Warfield into ABE Books, you'll probably find a lot of books
popping up on Edward VIII. Why, when you search for Warfield, you get books on Edward VIII?
Well, Mrs. Simpson was a Warfield. Connected to the Warfield family. So, the Warfields are
an important family, a kind of noble family, if you like, if that's appropriate in the American
context. His family were members of Lexington's Second Presbyterian Church. Kentucky, of course,
is one of those sort of borderline states. Is it north or is it south? I've got friends
who teach at Southern Seminary in Louisville, and they'll say, you know, it's just too southern
for us. A British guy in America, all Americans seem the same to me. It's north, south, it's
all the same. But to Americans, these minor marginal differences are very important to
the extent that a northern person is living in Kentucky. It's like living in another country.
You go to the local Italian restaurant, the Olive Garden, of course, and the restrooms
and toilets are exactly the same places they are in Chicago. It's all really very much the
same. But, I always, you know, the French and the Americans are the two groups that I
will be ethnically insensitive about. More about the French than the Americans, because
the Americans pay my salary and my money. The Warfields are members of Lexington's Second
Presbyterian Church, and the significance of that is that in the American Civil War, the
Second Presbyterian Church was the only Presbyterian Church in Lexington that sided with the North.
And that's significant for understanding Warfield. Warfield, in the 1890s, Warfield writes a number
of articles on what he calls the colour question. And he's remarkably progressive on race issues,
which is important because one of the struggles I have at Westminster is you have a number of African-American
students. And to them, of course, Presbyterianism equals slaveholders, by and large. And sadly,
there's an awful lot of evidence that that's correct. A lot of African-American students have
Scottish names. Why do they have Scottish names? Because their ancestors were owned at some point
by Scottish Presbyterians. So the role of Warfield, if you like, in making Presbyterianism an easier
pill to swallow is important. So the only time Warfield falls out with Machen at Princeton,
Machen the founder of Westminster Seminary, the OPC, is when Warfield integrates the dormitories
of Princeton Seminary. And Machen objects to that. Machen's from Maryland, which of course is north
of Washington, was with the north in the Civil War, mainly because Lincoln wouldn't allow
to do otherwise. You couldn't have a southern state north of the capital. But Machen really
brought, you know, Machen was really a son of what we would call a lot of southern prejudices,
if you like. Warfield, in some ways, is a much easier sell to African-American students.
Piety of the household was very much shaped by the study of the Shorter Catechism.
The Warfields were expected to have memorized the Shorter Catechism by the age of six.
They were then expected to memorize the proof texts. And then they were expected to memorize
the larger catechism. Remember, of course, that I think, I can't remember the exact wording,
I think the Shorter Catechism says, you know, this is for those of weaker minds, I think.
That's the language that is used. I gave you the Warfield anecdote, of course, on the Shorter
Catechism yesterday. He retained a lifelong love for the catechism. He was not initially
particularly enthusiastic about theology and divinity. As a youngster, he was far more interested
in science. Of course, he was later taking a great interest in cattle breeding. I think
his editing a farmer's journal was his first literary editorial role. And it plays into his
interest in evolution and Darwinianism. That Warfield had this interest in contemporary trends
in science. In 1868, he entered what was then the College of New Jersey, now Princeton University.
He was disciplined for a fight on a Sunday afternoon, apparently. He hit somebody with a chair or
something. If you've seen, Warfield was a big man and was no doubt very capable of looking
after himself. For some of you, a family tradition, I think his uncle might have been expelled from
Princeton at some point for beating somebody up as well. So the Warfields were tough. In 1862,
he travelled to Europe, spent time studying in Edinburgh and Heidelberg. In 1873, he decided to enter the
ministry. Sorry, it was 1872, not 1862. That would have made him only 11 at the time. In 1873, he decided
to enter the ministry. And it was at this time that he became editor of the Farmer's Home Journal.
At Princeton, he studied under men such as Charles Hodge and Hodge's son, Caspar Wister Hodge. And he makes
this comment on Charles Hodge. I've sat under many noted teachers and Hodge was superior to them all.
He was in fact my ideal of a teacher, best of all men I've ever known. He knew how to make a young man think.
Went on to be licensed, May 1875, and became state of supply at the Concord Church in Nicholas County, Kentucky.
Graduated in 1876, and at that point declined a call to become the minister of First Presbyterian Church in Dayton, Ohio.
August the 3rd of 1876, he married the very beautiful, witty and charming Annie Kinkhead, and went to Europe to pursue
further study. And there he heard lectures from, among others, the great German liberal church historian Adolf von Harnack.
It's fascinating the connections between Princeton and German liberalism.
Charles Hodge, of course, had been in the house of Friedrich Schleiermacher.
There's that weird, odd, pietistic footnote in Hodge's systematic theology where he's talking about Schleiermacher,
and he says, you know, over all the problems with his theology, you know, he's got to be a Christian
because, you know, he sings hymns in his house with his children of an evening.
It's just a really sappy bit of pietism, if you like.
But it's interesting to think that Hodge knew Schleiermacher, and was good friends at Tolok in Germany.
Warfield sat under Adolf von Harnack. Machen, of course, sat under, I'm trying to think of the man's name,
Wild Hare, Wilhelm Herrmann. Machen sat under Wilhelm Herrmann.
Bart also sat under Wilhelm Herrmann. They both have interesting reactions to Herrmann.
And I think I'm right in saying that Machen may have been a classmate of Rudolf Bultmann.
Bultmann does a review of Machen's book on Paul, I think.
And, you know, why does Bultmann do that?
Possibly they were, you know, we don't know much, but maybe they were friends.
Maybe Machen sent a copy, who knows.
But there are these interesting interconnections between the Princeton guys and German liberalism.
Warfield's marriage is worthy of a few moments' reflection
because it's an issue around which considerable mythology has grown up.
If you've got David Calhoun's History of Princeton Seminary, it's a two-volume history published by Bound of Truth.
It's a great, when I say it's a great beach read, I don't mean that as a criticism.
It's just one of those books, it's just a real page-turner, and it's just a straightforward story.
Calhoun says that while on honeymoon, Annie suffered some kind of a nervous breakdown
when she and Warfield were caught in a thunderstorm in Germany's Hartz Mountains,
and that she never recovered, and that through all the years of their married life,
Warfield carefully and faithfully cared for her as an invalid.
That represents the received wisdom on Warfield's marriage.
In actual fact, there's not a lot of historical evidence that that was the case.
Fred Zaspel, who lives near Philadelphia, has done quite a bit of research into Warfield.
He's this sort of comprehensive knowledge of Warfieldiana.
And he's looked long and hard to try to find early first-hand accounts of the Warfield marriage.
I'll read you what he says in his book on the theology of B.B. Warfield, which incidentally is an excellent book.
Annie is often reported to have been an invalid their entire married life.
But it does not seem that this degree of debilitation came until perhaps 1893.
A notice in the New York Times dated May 1st, 1892.
That's the kind of guy Fred is.
You can find notices in the New York Times of 1892.
Notes of Mrs. Warfield.
You get this.
Mrs. Woodrow Wilson and other prominent ladies of Princeton
served as patronesses at a lecture event
sponsored by the American Whig Society in Princeton on April 30th.
So we know that in 1892, B.B. Warfield's wife was quite capable of being a hostess at a big event.
Notice also as an aside, Warfield's are friends of the Wilsons.
Woodrow Wilson, of course, would go on to be president of Princeton
and would then go on to be president of the United States.
Apparently he liked Warfield but regarded him as a bit of a theological dinosaur.
You know, the Wilsons were a distinguished southern Presbyterian family.
But I think by the time we get to Woodrow, he's starting to sort of move.
There's starting to drift in a leftward direction.
Whatever, we do know that perhaps from 1893 onwards,
it appears that she does seem to have been more and more housebound.
The Warfields never had children,
but apparently they would learn the birthdates of all of the children of the faculty and the students
and would give little gifts to make sure that the birthdays of all these other children were celebrated.
So they sound like a very sweet couple.
And if you go to Princeton Cemetery, they're buried in magnificent tombs in the cemetery,
buried side by side, not far, incidentally, from where Jonathan Edwards is buried.
But you have Warfield and his wife buried together in the cemetery.
She died in 1915,
and it was in a sense as if Warfield himself had died with her at that point.
We have a letter from Jay Gressa Machen written to his mother.
He says,
I think that he will feel dreadfully lost without her.
As Mrs. Armstrong said,
he had only two interests in life,
his work and Mrs. Warfield.
And as she's gone,
there may be danger of his using himself up rather quickly.
If so,
I do not know who is to take his place.
I am more and more impressed with him.
He is certainly one of the very biggest men in the church,
either in this country
or in other,
or in any other.
And of course,
when Warfield dies in 1921,
there is really nobody to replace him.
And Princeton changes really rather rapidly
in the 10, 15 years
after the death of Warfield in 1921.
I was chatting to one of the historian guys at the PCA recently,
Barry Wall,
who's been doing some work on Warfield.
And he said,
he found it very hard to find obituaries of Warfield.
And it puzzled him
as to why there were no great, magnificent obituaries of Warfield.
And he finally comes to the conclusion,
they were glad he was gone.
That finally,
the last,
you know,
the last giant oak in the forest,
if you like,
had been chopped down.
And they could get on with the business of
modernising the church.
Maybe Barry's right.
Maybe he's wrong.
Who knows?
That's certainly what did happen.
One other important impact
that Warfield's marriage had on his life,
it meant that he didn't have a conventional,
ecclesiastical,
or conventional,
conventional,
ecclesiastical,
or academic career.
Look at Charles Hodge.
He's travelling.
He's going to General Assemblies.
He's locking horns
with people like James Henley Thornwell
on the floor of the General Assembly.
You don't get that with Warfield.
Warfield, by and large,
stays in Princeton.
The action,
such as it is,
is all in the mind.
There aren't the great anecdotes
of Warfield,
you know,
facing somebody across the room
and taking them down
in a debate.
It's all going on inside his head.
Warfield also never writes
a long monograph.
If you've got his books on perfectionism,
what it is,
it's collections of articles
thematically gathered together.
So Warfield never produces
a systematic theology
in the way that Hodge does.
It reminds me in some ways,
maybe,
of the story of Immanuel Kant.
You know,
Immanuel Kant was a very boring man
in many ways.
He would walk to his office
at the same time,
the same route,
every day.
And the story is
that one day in Königsberg,
he was late,
and the whole town
was delayed
because everybody
set their time
by when Kant
walked past their window.
You know,
and yet Kant
single-handedly almost
shattered intellectual life
and reconstructed it
in Europe.
So the fact that Warfield
lives a relatively conventional
and localised life
does not diminish
his impact.
While Warfield was in Europe,
Western Seminary,
which is now
Pittsburgh Theological Seminary,
contacted him
to offer the Old Testament position.
It's a sign of a different time,
isn't it,
where in the 19th century,
such as academia,
that one could be
competent enough
in a number of fields
to hold a chair
in any number
of disciplines.
The only person
I've ever met
in the theological world
who I think was competent
of holding a chair
in more than one field
was Richard Borka
of St. Andrews.
If you know Richard Borka,
great sister,
he's written great works
of systematics,
he's written on church history
and he's also written
in New Testament.
He could have held
a position, I think,
in any three,
any one of those
three disciplines.
19th century is very different.
The world is not awash
with information
and specialisations.
Warfield is offered
the Old Testament position.
He turns this down
not because he's fallen
in love with systematics,
but because he's fallen
in love with New Testament.
And again,
he's approached
by Western in 1878,
this time for the
cherished position
in New Testament.
And his pulpit supply
at first prayers
in Baltimore at the time
and he accepts the job
and takes up the position
in September 1878.
His time as professor
of New Testament
was not without
significant fruit.
In 1886,
he becomes the first
American period
to publish a book
on contextual criticism.
It's a fascinating book
to read.
It's a classic
19th century.
You know,
some books you read
and you can date them
within a couple of years.
I've got this
torn off Bible cover
in my office,
beautiful gilt Bible cover,
and it says,
the Holy Bible,
the secret of England's
greatness.
You know,
and you can date that
within 10 years
because you've got to look
at what point was
England at its most
arrogance and hubristic.
You know,
it's got to be published
at that point.
Warfield's book
on New Testament criticism,
he has this supreme
confidence
that text criticism
will vindicate
orthodox views
of scripture.
But what text criticism
will do
is allow you
to get back
closer and closer
and closer
to the original
manuscripts.
And slowly but surely
all of the textual
problems
will be solved.
He says this,
if then we undertake
the textual criticism
of the New Testament
under a sense
of duty,
we may bring it
to a conclusion
under the inspiration
of hope.
The orthographic
text of the New Testament
is distinctly
within the reach
of criticism.
And so immensely
the great part
of the volume
that we cannot despair
restoring to ourselves
and the Church of God
his book,
word for word,
as he gave it
by inspiration
to men.
So the first book
in North America,
written by North America,
on textual criticism
is saying,
textual criticism,
it's the friend
of orthodoxy
because it will bring
back to the Church
the very autographs
of the word of God.
Again,
this is the late 19th century.
Very, very optimistic
time for Christians.
1886,
he is offered the position
which he will then
come to occupy
for the rest of his life
and where he will do
his most significant work.
The chair of didactic
and polemic theology
at Princeton Theological Seminary.
The position previously
occupied by Charles Hodge
and unexpectedly vacated
by the premature death
of Charles Hodge's successor
and indeed Warfield's
co-author
and the little book
on inspiration,
Archibald Alexander Hodge.
Warfield's acceptance
of this position
was very controversial.
No less a man
than the great British
scholar William Robertson
Nicoll was upset.
Warfield had agreed
to provide a volume
to Nicoll
for his Expositors Bible series.
And when he takes
the chair of systematics
Nicoll realizes
this is probably
never going to happen.
And he writes to Warfield,
Permit me, he says,
first of all
to congratulate you
on your new position.
I do not know
if I can do so
with unmixed feelings.
You will no doubt
do a great work
in Princeton
for us all
but I grudge
very much
that you should be
taken away
from the study
of the New Testament.
I do not release you
from the Expositors Bible
though you be
a professor
of dogmatic theology.
You owe this debt
to the position
you have forsaken.
So that's a real
that's like a Pharrell
I curse your rest
for moving on
at this point.
Ethelburn,
Warfield's brother
wrote after his death
he says he venerated
as only a pure
and unselfish spirit can
the great men
and hallowed memories
that should make Princeton
one of the most notable
seats of theological scholarship.
His reverence
for those who taught him
was equaled
by his admiration
of his colleagues
and the love
which he delighted
to express
for those who taught him
was constantly reproduced
in his affection
for younger colleagues
and the successive classes
of students
who thronged his classroom.
Say the Warfields
never had children
but because of
because of their love
for children
they
as I said
memorized
even the dates of birth
of the students
kids at Westminster
so they could give them
presence.
Warfield was to engage
in significant correspondence
with many of the great
theologians
and figures of his day
William Robertson
Nichol
John Broadus
Charles Briggs
Warfield of course
would become
Briggs' nemesis
Kellogg
G.F. Wright
Barber
and Kuyper
as a recipient
of various
academic honors
from other institutions
received the DD
and the Doctor of Laws
from the College
of New Jersey
he received an honorary
doctorate from
Lafayette College
and the University
of Utrecht
and indeed
the University
of Utrecht
took the unprecedented
step
because of his
inability to travel
from Princeton
because of his
wife's circumstances
of awarding his
doctorate
in absentia
death
when it came
came suddenly
finally on this
started on December
the 24th
1920
so the letter
I have
is December
the 21st
so you see
how quickly
Warfield goes
downhill after that
Warfield had a
habit of every
evening he would
walk around
Princeton
with his
colleague
Gerhardus Voss
some of you
know with Voss
who Banner of Truth
publishes
biblical theology
Gerhardus Voss
very significant
in developing
a redemptive
historical approach
to the reading
of scripture
Warfield and Voss
were very close
friends and
colleagues
so you know
I have the
last letter of
Warfield
my colleague
Dick Gavin
he has Gerhardus
Voss' walking
stick
not that Protestants
are into relics
saints
anyway
at all
but
I have you know
a couple of
students have been
cured of leprosy
just by looking
at him
it's quite amazing
it has an eerie
glow at night
which is
kind of spooky
Warfield is going
to see his
friend Gerhardus
Voss on December
the 24th
and he
collapses
some weeks later
after resting
he returns to
the classroom
but on February
the 16th
having taught
his class
he goes home
to his house
and apparently
suffered
a fatal
heart attack
on February
the 16th
so Warfield
then
that's
his life
relatively
the facts
the marriage
is a bit
mysterious
but the facts
are relatively
straightforward
what about
his contribution
what are the
things that he
does that are
perhaps still
significant for us
today
well first of all
I think
most obviously
and most famously
his work
on scripture
the famous article
he co-wrote
with A.A.
Hodge
on inspiration
remains foundational
I think
for evangelical
and conservative
protestant
discussions
of the subject
love it
or hate it
one either
agrees with it
reacts against it
or does something
somewhere
in between
Warfield and Hodge
I think
basically set
the terms
of debate
for discussions
of scripture
as they continue
today
second major
area of
contribution
is his work
on perfectionism
what is interesting
in that work
is that Warfield
makes the connection
there
a clear connection
between
liberalism
mysticism
pragmatism
and perfectionism
that all of them
reduce
the gospel
to some sort
of psychological
state
if you like
to some form
of psychological
pragmatism
and it's amazing
reading
Warfield
some of Warfield's
critiques
as we shall see
in a few moments
some of Warfield's
critiques
of 19th century
liberalism
could be critiques
of contemporary
evangelical thought
on some fronts
with the difference
that the 19th century
German liberals
were very sophisticated
and by and large
a lot of
evangelical thought
seems to take
its cue
from sort of
Oprah Winfrey
level
of theology
a third area
of significance
and this is where
I think he's
interesting for debates
and discussions
that I know
the IPC
are having
is the area
of subscription
and confessional
revision
and actually
Fred Zastel
and I
just
we're gathering
together
Crossway
are interested
in publishing
a volume
of Warfield's
writings
on confessional
subscription
and
this sounds
horribly patronising
but I'll say it
anyway
Fred has said
to me
look I'm a
Baptist
I don't understand
confessional
subscription
but I love
Warfield
if I gather
the stuff together
will you write
the introduction
so we're putting
together a volume
on Warfield's
discussions of
confessional subscription
and confessional revision
which is a hot
button issue
in the 1890s
in American
Presbyterianism
as it was in
Scottish Presbyterianism
and in some ways
as it continues
to this day
Warfield of course
had been
he'd opposed
the founding
of a journal
called the
Presbyterian
Review
the journal
was founded
in order
to try to
bring together
the different
sides that
were emerging
in the
Presbyterian
Church
in America
at that time
and the idea
was to have
two editors
a liberal
and a conservative
to sort of
hold the show
together
and Warfield
had opposed
the founding
of it
and the first
editors
the two editors
were Charles Briggs
and the conservative
was Francis Landy
Patton
and Landy
Patton
retired
or resigned
in 1888
and Warfield
was chosen
as his successor
you can just
imagine what
Briggs must have
thought when
word came down
that oh the guy
you're going to
work with from
now on
is B.B.
Warfield
it was
my notes here
say it was
a problematic
relationship
I suspect
that's good
English
understatement
they lasted
together less
than a year
actually no
sorry
oh I've got a
minute
only a little
over a year
and then Warfield
resigned
Briggs resigned
and the journal
folded
shortly
thereafter
the names of
Warfield and Briggs
of course
epitomise
or symbolise
perhaps there's
no others
the growing
tensions
within American
Presbyterianism
over confessional
subscription
indeed
when Warfield
is asked
about 1915
1916
do you think
the Presbyterian
church will
split
his answer
by that point
is you can't
split rotten
wood
it's just so
bad
you can't even
think of it
in terms of
a split
these days
and
I know
the IPC
are thinking
about office
bearing
and about
confessional
issues
if you're
interested
I can send
you some
of the
Warfield
articles
that aren't
readily available
I've got them
on a CD-ROM
back home
Warfield's got
some interesting
stuff to say
he's a thoughtful
engager on this
issue
I want to give
you here a
quotation from
his first
inaugural address
when he was
inaugurated as
a professor
at Western
Theological
Seminary
he says this
about
signing up
to the
Westminster
Standards
!
I wish to
declare that
I sign
these standards
I'm going to be
saying this in
public
I wish to
declare that
I sign
these standards
not as a
necessary form
which must
be submitted
to
but gladly
and willingly
as the
expression of
a personal
and cherished
conviction
and further
that the
system taught
in these
symbols
is the
system which
will be
drawn out
of the
scriptures
in the
prosecution
of the
teaching
to which
you have
called
me
not
indeed
because
commencing
with the
system
the
scriptures
can be
made
to teach
it
but
because
commencing
with the
scriptures
I cannot
make them
teach
anything
else
it's a
powerful
statement
and it's
worth
pondering
because
behind that
statement
lies
a subscription
issue
that I think
is incredibly
hard to get
at
but is
vitally
important
I think
that one
can
Westminster
the language
is when we
subscribe to
the standards
we have to
subscribe
ex animo
from the
bottom
of our
hearts
with
absolute
sincerity
if you
like
and that's
often the
key
I think
there are
those who
honestly
subscribe to
the confession
and there are
two ways
of doing it
they're both
honest
subscription
but the
attitude
makes all
the difference
I think
there are
those who
subscribe to
confessions
and say
this is what
I believe
this is where
I want to
stand
this represents
who I am
and what I
stand for
and there are
those who
sign believing
everything that's
in the
confession
and standards
but the
underlying is
okay now I've
signed up
what can I
get away
with
and I
would say
that I
would not
want to say
that either
group don't
sign sincerely
and they
genuinely believe
everything that's
in the standards
but the difference
in attitude
is a huge one
do the standards
represent where
you want to
stand
what you stand
for
or do they
represent
yeah I
believe them
let me take
my vow
and now
what room
for maneuver
do I
have
that second
attitude
over time
is lethal
I think
to confessional
subscription
and that statement
of Warfield
I think
captures
beautifully
what should be
one's attitude
in subscribing
and
if you can't
subscribe
in that sense
that's not a
problem
there are other
denominations
where you can
serve as a
minister
nobody's going
to put you
in prison
because you
can't sign
nobody's going
to say
you're not
a Christian
because you
can't sign
up like that
nobody's going
to say
you can't
do ministry
in the absolute
sense
because you
can't sign
up
but you
couldn't be
a minister
in the OPC
for example
unless
that's your
attitude
and I think
that's important
to grasp
and those of you
who sit on
whatever the IPC
equivalence of
Canada's credentials
of training the
ministry committee
is
that's the kind
of question
you have to ask
John have you
done your
exam
John here
have you done
your exam
oh well
do you see
they're going
to change
the exam
before you
come in
so I'm
thinking about
your answer
to that one
yeah
well I would
say you know
think about it
for 72 hours
or so guys
before you
change the
way he
did it
so
Warfield
opposed
the movements
of the late
1880s and
the early 1890s
for revision
it's important
to note
that he was
not against
revision
if you're
truly confessional
you cannot
be opposed
to revision
because
Western's
Confession
chapter 1
makes it
absolutely
clear
the
confession
is
subordinate
to scripture
you have
to be
in favour
of the
principle
of revision
the questions
are
how and when
and who
by whom
such revision
is done
Warfield saw
very clearly
that the
proposed
revisions
and the
motivation
for the
revisions
seem to
involve a
weakening
of theology
and of the
terms of
subscription
it's interesting
to me that you
have almost
exactly the
same thing
going on in
Scotland
with the
declaratory
acts
and of course
the birth of
the Free
Presbyterian
Church
and the Free
Church of
Scotland
at this
point
it's interesting
how church
history across
denominations
events often
seem to happen
almost simultaneously
1830s and
40s
is there a
main established
denomination in
Europe that
doesn't split
Cardinal Newman
converts to
Rome
1845
and you have
the decade
the 15
years of
Oxford
movement
before that
destruction
1843
1834
you have a
split in
the Dutch
Reformed
Church
it's interesting
how often
events in
one denomination
are mirrored by
events in another
round at the
same time
indicating I
think there are
often powerful
social and
cultural reasons
for these
tensions emerging
as well
clearly Irish
immigration into
England during
the 1820s
1830s
1840s
the Reform
Act
these things
are very
powerful
it has a
powerful impact
on the
established
it
put tensions
on churches
and it's
interesting
confessional
revision
1880s and
1890s
it's there in
Scotland
it's there in
England
Warfield says
this
the chief reason
why I'm
personally opposed
to revision
of the
confession
of faith
is because I
believe it's
doctrine to be
the truth of
God
and because I
believe it's
formal statements
about doctrine
to be at once
exact and
Catholic
broad enough to
include all
sadly
Calvinistic
thinking
and precise
enough to
exclude all
tampering with
Calvinistic
truth
I'm confirmed
in my conviction
that the
confession
closed the
true doctrine
in admirably
chosen language
by the
straits and
inconsistencies
to which
those are
driven
who are
trying to
point out
passages
in it
which need
revision
so Warfield
then
opposed to
what he
saw as
the
underlying
agenda
and that's
why I
say the
key to
confessional
revision
has to
be
who's it
done by
and what's
the process
for doing
it
the editor
revised the
confession
than to have
people crossing
their fingers
of course
that is
even more
problematic
fourth area
which Warfield
made great
contributions
and where
he's comparatively
neglected
is the
articles he
wrote for
various dictionaries
on the
definition of
biblical terms
I remember
when I was
teaching in
Aberdeen
and asked
Professor Howard
Marshall what
he thought of
Warfield
he said
oh nonsense
on scripture
but he wrote
brilliant essays
on the
definitions of
biblical terms
I thought it
was interesting
that Howard
Marshall was
not somebody
sympathetic to
Warfield's
doctrine as a
whole
but he saw
the brilliance
of the man
when it came
to biblical
definitions
he mentioned
his essay
on the
emotional life
of Christ
and finally
I think
his book
reviews
are well
worth looking
at as well
what time
am I meant
to wrap
up Paul
you want me
to bring
this to a
close in
five minutes
okay
his book
reviews
one of the
things he
does very
well is
book reviews
of German
and American
liberal
theologians
of the
19th
century
and draws
out very
clearly
that the
key
difference
between
orthodox
theology
and liberal
theology
lies in
well
as he sees it
liberal theology
is really
talk about
the psychological
state of
human beings
doctrine
is a
projection
or a
reflection
upon human
religious
psychology
you see that
stemming in many
ways from
Schleiermacher
it also comes
from
pietism
which of course
provides
the background
much of the
background
to Schleiermacher
as well
what it does
and what
Warfield does
so well
is bring out
that sometimes
it is not
what you
believe
that's a
significant
thing
it's what
significance
you give
to it
and this is
where I think
Warfield's
writings on
German
liberalism
can speak
to
evangelical
theology
today
you may
not be
familiar
with the
figure
is Joe
Osteen
does that
name
mean anything
to anybody
here
your best
life now
or make
everyday
Friday
or something
I make
everyday
Saturday
morning
myself
what's
interesting
about
figures
what I
would call
the sort
of self
help
figures
within
evangelicalism
is
I'm not
sure that
they're
heterodox
on one
level
the key
question
sometimes
is not
what do
you believe
if you
sat
Joel
Osteen
down
and said
do you
believe
in the
trinity
my guess
is
you'd probably
say yeah
do you believe
Jesus was
the son of
God
yeah
do you believe
Jesus was
God
manifest in
flesh
you'd probably
say yes
what Warfield
brings out
beautifully
in his
interaction
with
German
and American
liberalism
in the
late
19th
century
is
it's
what
significance
you
ascribe
to this
doctrine
what
difference
does it
make
when
Joel
Osteen
or somebody
preaches
the question
is
!
is a
reality
does that
make any
difference
of what
he's
preached
that's
an
interesting
question
to ask
about
any
sermon
you hear
does
Christian
truth
make a
difference
to what
you've
heard
or does
what you
heard
assume
a generic
Christian
truth
but
really
doctrine
makes
them
in fact
it's
a great
little
book
it's
very
American
in its
orientation
but the
basic
points
I think
are quite
brilliant
and would
apply in
Britain
the same
as they
do in
the States
Christless
Christianity
by Michael
Horton
which in
some ways
I read
that
this is
a sort
of
updated
application
of what
Warfield's
doing in
the late
19th
century
the point
that Horton
makes in
that book
is not
that a lot
of modern
evangelicalism
has lost
its doctrine
it's still
on paper
pretty orthodox
but Christianity
has become
something
that helps
you
live a
fulfilled
life
do this
do that
do the
other
I'm going
to really
stick my
neck out
at this
point
but I
stuck my
neck out
on this
point
before
and the
people
who I'm
thinking of
know it
and don't
like me
for it
I get
worried
about the
massive
expansion
of Christian
counselling
because so
much of it
is
it looks
horribly
self-help
to me
and I know
that it's not
being articulated
in that way
but when the
primary concern
of the gospel
becomes putting
your marriage
back together
or how to
bring up
your children
I just get
concerned that
we're starting
to de-center
things
and that the
gospel is being
sidelined
for what it
does and how
it helps me
and Horton
has a great
anecdote
in the book
and I'm
guessing that
any of you
who preach
or pastor
church
even in my
short time
pastoring
I can confirm
we have
similar things
in our church
he talks about
a lady who
comes to his
church
and says
something to
affect her
I went to
my church
and my
marriage is
falling apart
and all we
had was a
sermon
on how to
put your
marriage back
together
and I came
to your
church
and I heard
the gospel
and that was
what I needed
to hear
I didn't want
somebody giving
me a how to
how to put
my marriage
back together
I needed to
know that
God was
sovereign
and that
Christ had
died for
my sins
and that
the church
would triumph
in the end
Matthew 16
18
and I just
get concerned
there are
various things
that concern
me about
cancelling
one I think
it puts
huge pressure
on office
bearing in
the church
and it really
moves things
away from the
elders in a way
that is not
helpful
and I think
it pushes us
we always have
to think as
teachers
we understand
what we're
saying
but how is
it being
received
historians
we routinely
make a
distinction
about what
an author
is intending
or a person
is intending
and how that
book is
received
reception
how is the
book received
in the culture
Calvin's
Institute
is a great
example
it wasn't
written as a
systematic
theology
textbook
but has
by and large
been received
as a systematic
theology
I worry
that the
emphasis
upon
putting
marriages
back
together
cure of
souls
which is
a good
thing
but when
it becomes
a central
thing
has that
being
received
you may be
teaching
inappropriately
but is it
leading people
to think
that the
gospel is
ultimately
about the
impact it
has
and not
about what
God has
done
in the
Lord Jesus
Christ
and I
think
that
Warfield's
discussions
of
liberalism
in the
19th
century
connect
directly
to that
kind
of
concern
so
Warfield
then
I think
probably
the greatest
Presbyterian
mind of the
19th century
a man
who was able
to engage
in several
different
languages
at a very
very high
level
a man
who had
the respect
of scholars
who despised
his theological
position
and a man
who understood
the nature
of confessionalism
and more than
anything else
understood the
importance of
doctrine
within the
testimony
of the
church
thanks very
much
time for
questions
some of
us
who are
not English
have
difficulty
identifying
the
era
in that
Bible
cover
version
I'm
guessing
somewhere
between
1890
and 1905
I don't
know
we protect
you guys
for centuries
and this
is all
the gratitude
we save
you from
yourselves
I always
love telling
my wife
John Knox
was always
happier in
England
than he
was in
Scotland
I'm sorry
can you just
repeat that
quote again
about
what he said
about
confessional
description
yeah
sure
I don't
have it
committed to
memory
so you'll
have to
give me a
second
bear with me
while I
pull it
up
I can
certainly
send it
to you
I wish
to declare
that I
sign these
standards
not as a
necessary
form which
must be
submitted to
but gladly
and willingly
as the
expression of
a personal
and cherished
conviction
and further
that the
system taught
in these
symbols
is the
system which
will be
drawn out
of the
scriptures
in the
prosecution
of the
teaching
to which
you have
called me
not indeed
because
commencing
with that
system
the
scriptures
can be
made to
teach it
but because
commencing
with the
scriptures
I cannot
make them
teach anything
else
if you want
I can
actually
send you
the quotation
if you like
you can get
the first
in order
address
I found
in PDF
online
I have not
found it in
any of the
collections of
his writings
but I did
dig around
and I found
it online
so I can
probably dig
it out
and send
you the
whole thing
thank you
very much
any more
questions
I'm
slightly
sorry
to remember
this
but I
think I'm
right in
saying
similar
later
Western
skies
to
Van
Thiel
around
I've
looked
back
at
Warfield
with a
certain
bit
of
critique
and more
recently
I've heard
people
critique
!
In some
ways it's
not
my
field
Van
Thiel
is
a
law
unto
himself
an
afternoon
reading
Cardinal
Newman
who wrote
English
prose
beautifully
or an
afternoon
reading
Van
Thiel
who
couldn't
write a
sentence
to save
his
life
I'm
going to
go for
Cardinal
Newman
Van
Thiel's
criticism
of Warfield
is really
that he
gives
too much
of a
rationalist
too
influenced
by
Scottish
common
sense
realism
it's
not
my
area
to
be
able
to
offer
a
response
to
that
really
though
Paul
Helseth
has
recently
written
a
book
published
by
PNR
on
the
old
Princetonian
view
of
reason
where
he
really
challenges
that
view
now
my
own
understanding
this takes
me to a
much
wider
frame
I
actually
think
that
Thomism
is much
more
influential
on the
reformed
tradition
than
the
Van
Thiel
guys
would
like
to
acknowledge
So
I
find
Warfield's
quasi
rationalism
but
if
you
wanted
Van
Thiel
writes
the
introduction
the
PNR
five
volumes
from
the
1950s
there
is
a
volume
on
the
inspirational
authority
of
scripture
and Van
Thiel
writes
the
introduction
to that
and that
would
give you
his
take
on that
my
impression
of Van
Thiel
is he's
not really
a very
good
historical
theologian
I don't
think he
really gets
Thomas
which would
make me
suspicious
that he
may not
really
get
Warfield
but I
haven't
looked at
that in
detail
I can't
hear
it's not
my area
to comment
on further
than I
have done
what was
this book
you mentioned
sorry
Paul
Helzeth
I can't
remember what
the title
of it is
is it
reason
right
reason
and the
old
Princetonians
or something
got it on
my shelf
at home
Helzeth
H-E-L-S-E-T-H
yeah
Matthew
I can't
remember the
details
to be honest
no I
think
the
atonement
was being
broadened
do you
remember that
can you
remember
I'd have
to go
and look
good place
to get
access to
that is
WGT
Sheds
Calvinism
Pure and
Mixed
which was
his contribution
to the
debate
it's published
by Banner
of Truth
it was a
revision of
the confession
it was not a
declaratory act
I also think
they were toning
down the
language on
depravity
can't remember
how but
Shed outlines
it if you go
and look up
WGT Shed
debt
I'm remembering
the main
thing was
extra articles
one on the
Holy Spirit
one on the
love of God
yeah
the love of God
of course is
something of an
absence from the
Westminster Shorter
Catechism
that would be one of
my examples
if we wrote the
Catechism today
I'd do it
differently
because I
certainly want
to include
love
in my
definition of
God
somewhere
I don't
think the
Catechism
excludes it
I think it
just doesn't
include it
at that
particular point
Joe
I have two
questions
one
do you know
of Warfield's
rewriting
of the
parable of
the
Good Samaritan
in terms of
the good
African-American
the good
Negro
no I haven't
come across
that
wow
where is that
available
do you know
I'd love
to see that
if you can
find that
I would love
to see that
alright
and the other
question
what do you
think is the
significance
of his
supporting
of some
basic aspects
of Darwinian
evolution
well moving
into a sort
of contentious
area there
because Fred
Zaspel
has actually
recently
in his book
and in a
subsequent article
seriously questioned
!
sort of
Martin Old
David Livingston
Warfield was an
evolutionist
by arguing that
his positive
comments are
really restricted
it's pretty
early stuff
and that he
does seem to
have cut off
from earlier
statements
so I have
not looked
into that
sufficiently
to know
he is a
big believer
in historical
Adam and
unity of the
human race
in Adam
and as far
as I see
it the
special
creation
of Adam
for me
we'd raise
the question
then are
his two
positions
consistent
but he
does have
a special
creation
of Adam
he doesn't
seem to be
an Adam
emerges from
a pre-existing
group of
hominids
as far as I
can understand
him
which would
I'm not
saying I
would agree
with that
position
but it would
be considerably
more acceptable
to me than
Adam emerges
over time
from a
pre-existing
group of
hominids
but the
bigger question
of Warfield
on evolution
as a church
historical problem
is I think
it's just being
opened up as
an area of
some debate
and exhaustful
I'm not sure
I'm entirely
convinced by
Fred but he
certainly shows
that it's a
lot more
complicated than
Mark
Noel and David
Livingstone
care to make
it
Warfield was
very interested
in Kenya
he was fascinated
by what we
would now call
genetics I
suppose
cattle breeding
these kind of
things
he had this
scientific mind
and was very
very interested
in the kind
of thing
kind of questions
that evolution
was throwing
up
Warfield's always
going to be the
big one in the
debates that are
emerging at the
moment over
evolution in the
Presbyterian church
over in the
states
Warfield's always
going to be the
guy that the
guys on the
left bring out
as part of their
arguments so the
Warfield question
is not an
insignificant one
in terms of
what's going on
in the church
today we don't
subscribe to
Warfield but if
he was a full
blooded evolutionist
then that is
quite significant
I re-read his
sermon on the
prodigal son
just recently
that's an amazing
person
suddenly recognised
where Tim
Keller gets his
tongue
I might be wrong
I was quite
talking about your
passing comment
about Warfield
saying a podge
that he knew
how to make a
young man think
in terms of
practically in our
churches how can
we get our young
boys to think
well in a world
of you can
shut down their
Twitter and
Facebook accounts
so they've got
more time to
think
that would be
my first move
I suppose it's
I'm in a rather
privileged position
at any given
point in time in
our church we've
got four or five
seminary students
and they're
I would say
they're paid to
think they're
paying to think
would be the way
to put it
what I've tried
to do I saw
a video with
Mark Dever
having sort of
gently rubbished
Mark earlier
let's say something
really nice about
him I saw a
video with Mark
Dever where he
talks about
giving away free
books to the
congregation
and what I
started doing
they budgeted a
year's salary for
me part time
salary forgetting
that I didn't
start until
August the 1st
and the church
budget year runs
from July to
the end of June
which meant I
got an extra
month's salary
budget this year
which they
weren't going to
give me because
I didn't do the
work for it
but I asked if
I could use that
month's salary to
buy books for the
congregation
so what I started
doing is once
one Sunday a month
I give away books
for the adults
so many students
are banned if they
want a copy
they have to speak
to me quietly
but the books I
buy there and
then have to be
given to members
of the congregation
and one Sunday a
month I buy books
for the kids
and I give them
away and the kids
have to draw me a
little picture which
I stick up on the
wall in my
office but that's
been my way of
trying to get
people to read
good stuff and
to think about it
and I say the
price you pay for
taking the book
from me is I
reserve the right
to jump on you
one Sunday and
say what do you
think of that
book so I've been
trying to carefully
select books that
I think will help
people to think
and interestingly
enough to begin
with I think people
were suspicious I
was having difficulty
giving away I was
saying nobody gives
away something for
nothing I think
it was that kind
of mentality
now I'm finding
I'm having to
buy a second
batch in because
I buy four
the four go and
other people say
can you get a
hold of the book
for me and I
talked to Mark
and how long did
it take for you
to really build
this culture
he said it
takes a couple
of years but I
think that's one
way of doing it
is to try to make
sure that there's
good literature
being put into
the hands of your
congregation it
takes money of
course and I'm a
part time salary
which means we've
got a bit of flex
financially that a
lot of churches
don't have and
also I can get a
pretty good deal
because both
bookstore managers
and members of my
congregation get a
pretty good deal
in the bookstore as
well but that's
the only thing that
I've done practically
to try to encourage
two weeks time I'm
giving away Jim
Packer's latest book
Taking God
Seriously it's not
heavy theology
so what would get
people thinking
what would be those
first books you gave
away?
I gave away Jim
Packer Evangelism and
The Sovereignty of
God I gave away
Rosaria Butterfield's
Unlikely Thoughts
Secret Thoughts of
and Unlikely Convo
which is not only her
testimony but also
gets people thinking
about sexuality and
gender in quite a
profound way
I've given away
Neil Tolson's book
recently This Is Love
which is a sort of
traces the doctrine
of God's love
throughout the Bible
P&R
and I'm doing Packer
I'm trying to buy
books that I think
will touch on issues
that people are
wrestling with
and are well written
I'm not going to
give them anything
where the first
paragraph is
Jim and Jane
sat on the sofa
once they'd been
in love
now a great
distance that
opened up the
tree
I don't give
that sound
I don't give
a way of
sovereignty
well written
and thought
provoking
Evangelism and
The Sovereignty
of God
I still don't
know of any
book that in
simple but in
profound ways
wrestles with that
question that
everybody in a
Calvinistic church
is going to
wrestle with at
some point
if God is
sovereign why do
we do evangelism
I think Jim
Packer really
nails it
and it's
amazing how
often you get
asked that
question and
it's great to
be able to
put a book
in people's
hands
will you make
available a list
of books you
give for the
adults and
children
I can certainly
send me an email
Joe I'll send
you what I've
done and I try
to make it a mix
of classics and
stuff that's
coming out
contemporary stuff
as well
sure so Paul
can read some
books and
learn some
stuff
great
well thank
you very very
much Carl
thanks
I've got a
very busy
schedule and
we do really
appreciate you
I'll be back in
London tomorrow