WEBVTT

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 Paul asked if I would give a couple of historical lectures today. He sort of left the topics open to me.

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! What I want to talk on is in the first lecture, I'm going to speak about Martin Luther, but rather than just do a sort of standard, you know, this was Martin Luther and this was the kind of stuff he did, I want to look particularly, I want to trace his biography, particularly relative to how his understanding of the church changes.

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 So, hopefully this lecture will tie in a little bit with yesterday. It will give some historical examples, if you like, of the kind of things that I was pointing towards yesterday.

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 In the second lecture, I want to give a, it's a lecture I've given a couple of times before, but I want to talk about B.B. Warfield.

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 Some biographs, some reflections on B.B. Warfield's life and theological contribution.

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 But first then, Martin Luther. I've called the title, I titled this lecture, Seven Marks of a Healthy Church.

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 Really as a whack against Mark Deber.

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 At least, Luther remembers that prayer is a mark of the church.

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 Just as a facetious jab there.

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 I think it was Paul Levy who said to me, he said, I wondered if Mark Deber woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat,

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 realising there were actually ten marks of the church and he had forgotten completely to mention prayer,

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 but the books had already gone to the press and it was too late.

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 Anyway, seven marks of a healthy church because in Luther's great treatise of 1538-1539,

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 on the councils of the church, he gives his most thorough exposition of the nature of the church and church authority.

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 One of the peculiarities of, well, not Luther, but of knowledge about Luther,

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 is that we tend, on the whole, to focus on Luther in early, mid-career.

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 It's the Luther between sort of 1516 and 1525, or maybe 1529, the Marburg Colloquy,

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 that has tended to capture the popular imagination about Luther.

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 One of the problems with looking at Luther, just through that lens, however,

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 is that Luther is a work in progress.

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 He dies in 1546, and there's quite a lot that goes on in the 1520s and 1530s

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 that causes him not to change his mind on things that he said earlier,

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 but certainly to supplement and to add to what he has said earlier.

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 And I really want today to trace, broad strokes, his early career, through that mid-career phase

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 and up to the late 1530s, in order to show how Luther's own thinking on the church changed.

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 A couple of preliminary comments first.

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 Just a few comments about the Reformation as a whole.

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 I think this probably goes without saying in this company, but I'm going to say it anyway.

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 The Reformation was, of course, not a rejection of church tradition.

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 No Reformer rejected church tradition.

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 The Anabaptists rejected church tradition.

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 The Sassinians, of a slightly later date, rejected church tradition.

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 The Reformation did not reject church tradition.

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 What the Reformation sought to do was to correct or to norm church tradition

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 in light of the scripture.

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 It would never have crossed Calvin's mind to get rid of all that had gone before

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 and build the church from the ground up.

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 He assumes that the church has been right on a whole swathe of things

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 for the previous 1500 years.

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 His interest is in norming that tradition by the standards of scripture.

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 Reminds, of course, that the Reformation is not a clean break with the past.

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 Martin Luther no more comes out of nowhere than anybody else does.

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 Certainly there is a dramatic break, institutional break, at the time of the Reformation.

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 But intellectually, we can see that Luther's roots, his intellectual roots,

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 lie in the late medieval period.

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 And much of the scholarly work of the last 60, 70 years of the Reformation

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 has been involved in tracing out the points of dependence and continuity

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 between Luther and the Catholic teachers he had at the University of Erfurt and beyond.

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 And that brings me to a point that is sometimes missed about Martin Luther,

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 but is crucial, I think, to understanding him on a number of levels.

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 And that is, Luther comes onto the scene in the early 16th century at a time

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 and there is great eschatological expectation among numerous churchmen

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 that the world is coming to an end.

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 Late Middle Ages is a difficult time.

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 We're at plague of the 14th century that wipes out, is it, a third of Europe's population.

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 Casts a long, dark shadow over Europe.

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 And by the time we get to the end of the 15th, beginning of the 16th century,

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 we have various of end-time figures popping up.

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 Savonarola in Florence would be an obvious example.

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 Martin Luther is another.

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 Martin Luther thinks he's living at the end of time.

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 1521, after the Diet of Worms, popular tracts start to identify Martin Luther

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 with figures in the Book of Revelation, both good figures and bad figures.

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 And Luther, while he never takes the identifications himself,

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 he never distances himself.

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 One of the good ones, anyway.

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 That there is a sense in Luther that things are coming to an end.

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 And that's very important for understanding the development of his theology.

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 As I'm sorry, it's very important for understanding his approach to the Jews as well.

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 1523 is quite a remarkable treatise that Jesus Christ was born a Jew.

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 Argues that Christians should really treat Jews very well

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 in order to open the door for evangelism.

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 1543, of course, just three years before his death,

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 he writes his famous treatise on the Jews and their lives.

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 A few years ago, I did a bit of research on Holocaust denial

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 for a small book on historical method I was writing.

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 And it amazed me how many Holocaust denial sites

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 have links to Martin Luther's 1543 treatise on the Jews.

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 Luther turns from being a philo-semite, we might say,

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 to being an anti-semite, a slightly anachronistic terminology there.

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 Why does he do that?

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 Because in 1523, he thinks the world is coming to an end.

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 The Reformation will carry on before it.

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 The Jews will be converted and Christ will return.

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 By 1543, it's patently obvious that isn't going to happen.

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 And he's looking around for people to blame.

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 And he blames the Turks.

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 He blames the Anabaptists.

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 He blames the Papists.

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 And he blames the Jews.

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 So Luther thinks he's living at the end of time.

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 And that's important because that helps us to understand

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 what looks in retrospect like rather naive confidence

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 that Luther has in the early days of the Reformation.

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 How long are we going for this morning, Paul?

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 If you go to quarter to 11.

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 Okay.

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 Because I could talk for hours on Luther,

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 so I really do need to remember myself.

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 Luther's eschatological expectation will profoundly shape

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 the early years of the Reformation.

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 It gives him this tremendous confidence.

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 When he returns to Wittenberg in 1520 and preaches a famous sermon,

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 and riots broken out in Wittenberg in his absence,

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 he returns and he preaches a famous sermon

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 that brings the riot into an end.

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 And he has this great statement in it where he says,

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 you know, people ask me,

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 why has the Reformation succeeded?

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 And I say, I don't know.

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 I've sat around in the pub with my friend,

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 Philip and Amsdorf,

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 drinking beer,

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 and the Word of God was out there doing it all.

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 Supremely confident statement

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 about the power of the Word of God

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 to carry all before him.

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 As we shall see as we work through his biography.

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 After 1525,

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 things really start to change for Luther.

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 And he begins to realise

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 that the Word of God won't do it all,

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 but actually you need to think more thoroughly

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 at a grassroots level about Christian holiness,

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 and at an institutional level,

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 about structures,

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 and what the Church looks like.

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 Just as an aside,

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 it interests me that the,

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 I don't know if you followed some of the debates

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 about holiness that are going on

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 in the United States,

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 and Luther's quoted a lot,

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 and it is always the Luther before 1525.

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 It is always the Luther before 1525.

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 After 1525,

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 you have a different Luther,

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 because he realises there's more to it

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 than just preaching the Gospel.

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 Luther then,

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 protest of 1517,

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 is when he first hits the popular imagination.

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 It's often thought of

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 as the start of the Reformation.

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 A myriad Victorian paintings

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 and book illustrations

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 have the scowling,

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 angry,

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 determined-looking Luther

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 driving a nail

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 into the castle door in Wittenberg,

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 nailing up his 95 Theses,

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 symbolically driving a stake

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 through the heart of the Catholic Church,

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 or a nail into the coffin

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 of the Catholic Church.

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 Of course,

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 it wasn't that radical.

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 What he was doing

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 was simply advertising debate.

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 And if you read the 95 Theses,

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 by and large,

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 you will probably find them

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 relatively incomprehensible.

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 They are deeply rooted

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 in late medieval debates

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 about penance

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 and indulgences and merit.

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 There is very little there

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 that one would describe

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 as distinctively Protestant

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 other than it appears

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 to be a protest

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 of some kind.

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 For some reason,

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 frankly,

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 this remains a mystery to me.

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 This tract is

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 translated and printed

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 and becomes a bestseller.

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 It seems that the time

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 is just right

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 for people to have

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 some kind of protest

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 about the Church.

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 It doesn't matter

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 that people don't understand it.

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 It captures the popular imagination.

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 It appears to be saying

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 rude things about the Pope.

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 It seizes the popular imagination

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 in electoral Saxony

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 and beyond.

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 It's actually not that radical,

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 as I said.

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 He's, in some ways,

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 if you go and pin up a notice

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 on the Church Notice Board here,

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 saying that you're going to be

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 debating something

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 on a certain day.

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 What Luther's doing

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 is not a whole lot

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 more radical than that.

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 And I think he has

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 every reason

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 to believe

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 that the Pope

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 will be on his side

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 when he says things

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 if indulgences do

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 what you say,

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 then surely the Pope

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 would let everybody

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 out of purgatory.

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 I think what Luther's saying

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 is,

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 if the Pope knew

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 what Texel was saying

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 in this indulgence,

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 he'd close him down.

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 Texel can't possibly be right

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 because the Pope

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 wouldn't let this happen.

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 So Luther's protest

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 for 1517

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 is not such a radical protest.

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 It's really a demand

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 for clarification

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 on the practice

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 of the sale of indulgences

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 that is taking place

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 across the Holy Roman Empire.

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 at that particular point

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 in time.

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 And of course,

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 Texel is not allowed

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 to go into electoral saxony

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 to sell indulgences

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 because Frederick the Wise,

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 Luther's princely protector,

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 has his own

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 set of relics.

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 An enviable collection

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 of relics.

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 Luther and Frederick the Wise

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 never meet, actually.

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 If you've seen the movie,

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 the movie's pretty good.

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 It kaleidoscopes,

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 it compresses a bit

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 of the history.

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 But there is that

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 Hollywood moment

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 at the end.

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 If you've seen the movie

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 when Luther's

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 and Frederick the Wise

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 meet in the relic room

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 in the castle

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 in Wittenberg,

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 and Frederick the Wise

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 is sort of saying,

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 you know,

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 I've had this wonderful

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 collection and you've

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 rendered it worthless.

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 Never happened.

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 Frederick the Wise

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 never meets Luther.

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 They must have passed

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 in the streets at times.

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 Frederick the Wise,

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 a very clever politician,

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 he always maintained

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 distance,

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 so that if ever

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 it went wrong,

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 Frederick the Wise

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 would be able to say,

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 nothing to do with me,

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 and walk away

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 from the situation.

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 The relationship

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 between them

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 was mediated by

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 a man called

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 Spalatin.

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 If you go into

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 the chapel of the

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 castle church

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 in Wittenberg,

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 it's interesting,

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 Zwingli is up in the

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 stained glass windows

00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:19.879
 as well,

00:12:19.939 --> 00:12:20.399
 I'm not sure that

00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:20.819
 Luther would have

00:12:20.819 --> 00:12:21.459
 approved of that,

00:12:21.719 --> 00:12:23.319
 but Spalatin is there,

00:12:23.439 --> 00:12:24.479
 and who was Spalatin?

00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:25.919
 Spalatin was the man

00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:27.319
 who made it all possible

00:12:27.319 --> 00:12:28.879
 by connecting Luther

00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:30.299
 and Frederick the Wise,

00:12:30.459 --> 00:12:31.599
 but allowing for

00:12:31.599 --> 00:12:32.779
 political distance

00:12:32.779 --> 00:12:33.860
 between them.

00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:36.200
 Luther's protest,

00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:36.460
 though,

00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:37.639
 brings him to

00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:39.080
 attention,

00:12:39.259 --> 00:12:40.320
 certainly within

00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:41.659
 electoral and

00:12:41.659 --> 00:12:42.680
 ducal Saxony.

00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:44.740
 More radical,

00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:45.159
 of course,

00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:45.879
 is what takes place

00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:46.919
 in April 1518.

00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:48.320
 Luther goes to

00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:49.940
 a regular chapter

00:12:49.940 --> 00:12:51.159
 meeting

00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:53.240
 of the Saxon

00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:54.039
 chapter of the

00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:54.840
 Augustinian order

00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:55.779
 to which he belongs.

00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:56.759
 He goes to the

00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:57.519
 city of Heidelberg

00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:58.500
 and presides there

00:12:58.500 --> 00:12:59.560
 over a disputation

00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:00.819
 where he has

00:13:00.819 --> 00:13:01.599
 prepared a series

00:13:01.599 --> 00:13:02.359
 of theses that

00:13:02.359 --> 00:13:03.000
 are actually debated

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:03.759
 by a man called

00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:04.939
 Leonard Bayer.

00:13:06.259 --> 00:13:06.679
 And it's the

00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:07.719
 Heidelberg disputation

00:13:07.719 --> 00:13:08.919
 of 1518 that I

00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:10.179
 think really marks

00:13:10.179 --> 00:13:11.479
 in some ways the

00:13:11.479 --> 00:13:12.659
 proper beginning of

00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:13.239
 the theological

00:13:13.239 --> 00:13:13.959
 reformation.

00:13:14.419 --> 00:13:15.539
 It either starts in

00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:16.979
 September 1517

00:13:16.979 --> 00:13:18.819
 when Luther has a

00:13:18.819 --> 00:13:19.639
 disputation on

00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:20.759
 scholastic theology

00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:22.559
 or April 1518

00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:24.839
 when Luther engages

00:13:24.839 --> 00:13:25.719
 at Heidelberg

00:13:25.719 --> 00:13:27.659
 and articulates his

00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:28.739
 notion of the

00:13:28.739 --> 00:13:29.299
 theologian,

00:13:29.299 --> 00:13:29.899
 of the cross

00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:30.679
 and the theologian

00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:31.199
 of glory,

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:32.779
 arguing that there

00:13:32.779 --> 00:13:33.539
 are two ways of

00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:34.219
 doing theology.

00:13:34.299 --> 00:13:35.039
 We could boil it

00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:36.459
 down into very

00:13:36.459 --> 00:13:37.459
 simple terms and

00:13:37.459 --> 00:13:40.159
 say either theology

00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:41.419
 is done by making

00:13:41.419 --> 00:13:42.379
 God in the image

00:13:42.379 --> 00:13:43.699
 of man or it's

00:13:43.699 --> 00:13:45.120
 done by understanding

00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.319
 that man is in the

00:13:46.319 --> 00:13:47.059
 image of God.

00:13:47.620 --> 00:13:48.559
 Either we take our

00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:49.299
 cue from the world

00:13:49.299 --> 00:13:50.039
 around and we

00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:50.919
 assume that what we

00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:51.859
 do is we simply

00:13:51.859 --> 00:13:53.039
 expand that and

00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:54.819
 that human notion

00:13:54.819 --> 00:13:55.339
 of power,

00:13:55.659 --> 00:13:56.399
 extend it to the

00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:57.079
 nth degree and

00:13:57.079 --> 00:13:57.639
 that's something

00:13:57.639 --> 00:13:58.879
 akin or analogous

00:13:58.879 --> 00:13:59.779
 and divine power

00:13:59.779 --> 00:14:01.379
 or we look at

00:14:01.379 --> 00:14:02.419
 the cross and

00:14:02.419 --> 00:14:03.240
 see how God has

00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:04.320
 revealed his power

00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:05.100
 to be,

00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:06.120
 power through

00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:06.480
 weakness.

00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:07.299
 It's real 1st

00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:08.980
 Corinthians kind

00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:09.659
 of stuff.

00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:11.899
 We also see at

00:14:11.899 --> 00:14:12.799
 Heidelberg an

00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:13.559
 increasing emphasis

00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:14.980
 upon humility

00:14:14.980 --> 00:14:16.379
 as the key.

00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:17.480
 Late medieval

00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.039
 theologians of the

00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:21.000
 tradition to which

00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:21.559
 Luther belonged

00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:22.200
 were always looking

00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:23.519
 at what is that

00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.000
 thing that one has

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:27.259
 to do in order to

00:14:27.259 --> 00:14:28.299
 access the grace of

00:14:28.299 --> 00:14:28.639
 God.

00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:31.240
 And what is the

00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:32.500
 requirement if you

00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:33.419
 like triggering

00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:34.799
 God's arrangement

00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.159
 with human beings

00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:37.120
 that will bring you

00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:37.980
 into that first

00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:39.319
 initial state of

00:14:39.319 --> 00:14:39.579
 grace.

00:14:39.699 --> 00:14:40.600
 And Luther really by

00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:42.860
 March of 1518 has

00:14:42.860 --> 00:14:43.600
 come to identify,

00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:44.759
 April of 1518 has

00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:45.539
 come to identify

00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:47.899
 that with humility.

00:14:48.199 --> 00:14:49.399
 Absolute despair of

00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:50.639
 oneself before God.

00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:52.120
 Will very quickly of

00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:53.080
 course morph into

00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:54.679
 his later understanding

00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:55.259
 of faith.

00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:56.799
 Scholars debate about

00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:58.580
 when Luther makes

00:14:58.580 --> 00:14:59.419
 his breakthrough on

00:14:59.419 --> 00:15:00.539
 justification by faith.

00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:01.700
 Some date it as

00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:02.759
 early as 1515.

00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:03.820
 Some push it to

00:15:03.820 --> 00:15:05.360
 1521, 1522.

00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.360
 I think we're all

00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:10.340
 slightly misled by

00:15:10.340 --> 00:15:11.500
 comments Luther

00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:13.340
 makes in 1545 in

00:15:13.340 --> 00:15:13.940
 the so-called

00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:14.899
 autobiographical

00:15:14.899 --> 00:15:15.720
 fragment when he

00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:16.320
 talks about this

00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:17.139
 moment where

00:15:17.139 --> 00:15:18.180
 everything snapped

00:15:18.180 --> 00:15:19.560
 into focus relative

00:15:19.560 --> 00:15:20.840
 to Romans 1.17.

00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.580
 probably it never

00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:23.460
 happened that way.

00:15:24.660 --> 00:15:25.259
 And certainly I

00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:25.980
 think we can trace

00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:26.899
 a more steady

00:15:26.899 --> 00:15:27.759
 development in

00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:28.399
 Luther's thinking

00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:29.639
 that brings him

00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:30.580
 to his mature

00:15:30.580 --> 00:15:31.860
 understanding of

00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:32.820
 justification by

00:15:32.820 --> 00:15:33.300
 faith.

00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:35.440
 One of the

00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:36.399
 important things

00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:37.879
 though about

00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:39.399
 Luther coming to

00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:40.540
 understand humility

00:15:40.540 --> 00:15:42.060
 as that which

00:15:42.060 --> 00:15:43.060
 if you like

00:15:43.060 --> 00:15:44.220
 triggers the grace

00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:45.100
 of God, that's

00:15:45.100 --> 00:15:45.860
 which brings one

00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:47.139
 into a state of

00:15:47.139 --> 00:15:48.440
 grace, is the

00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:49.980
 impact this has on

00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:50.580
 his understanding

00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:51.440
 of the sacraments.

00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:53.519
 Catholic Church,

00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:54.460
 even today this is

00:15:54.460 --> 00:15:55.060
 the case, the

00:15:55.060 --> 00:15:55.940
 Catholic Church's

00:15:55.940 --> 00:15:57.060
 authority is primarily

00:15:57.060 --> 00:15:57.960
 a sacramental

00:15:57.960 --> 00:15:58.480
 authority.

00:15:58.680 --> 00:15:59.940
 It's rooted in the

00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:00.779
 administration of

00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:01.519
 the sacraments.

00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:03.500
 Late medieval

00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:04.680
 theologians really

00:16:04.680 --> 00:16:05.480
 weakened that

00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:07.740
 dramatically by making

00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:09.159
 the first condition

00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:10.259
 for salvation, if you

00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:12.100
 like, a non-sacramental

00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:12.460
 one.

00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:13.920
 How does humility

00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:14.519
 fit with the

00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:14.740
 sacraments?

00:16:14.779 --> 00:16:15.440
 Well it doesn't

00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:16.159
 really.

00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:17.639
 despairing of

00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:18.360
 oneself before

00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:18.719
 God.

00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:19.500
 That doesn't

00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:20.039
 really fit with

00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:20.600
 the sacraments.

00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:21.100
 Of course as

00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:21.919
 Luther's theology

00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:23.779
 matures and he

00:16:23.779 --> 00:16:24.939
 starts to talk in

00:16:24.939 --> 00:16:25.759
 terms of justification

00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:27.419
 by grace through

00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:27.980
 faith.

00:16:29.179 --> 00:16:30.120
 Sacraments again,

00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:30.980
 their position,

00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:32.039
 their role is

00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:32.579
 fundamentally

00:16:32.579 --> 00:16:33.799
 restructured.

00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:34.839
 What is taking

00:16:34.839 --> 00:16:36.079
 place in Heidelberg,

00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:36.579
 though Luther

00:16:36.579 --> 00:16:37.519
 himself I think

00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:38.179
 doesn't fully

00:16:38.179 --> 00:16:39.159
 appreciate this at

00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:40.620
 the time, he

00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:41.379
 sees actually

00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:42.799
 knocking away the

00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:43.659
 foundations of

00:16:43.659 --> 00:16:44.519
 authority in the

00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:45.439
 medieval church.

00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:47.199
 What gets Luther

00:16:47.199 --> 00:16:47.939
 into trouble in

00:16:47.939 --> 00:16:49.279
 the Reformation is

00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:50.799
 not justification by

00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:52.639
 faith directly, if

00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:54.000
 you like, it's the

00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.519
 implications that his

00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:56.620
 emerging understanding

00:16:56.620 --> 00:16:58.840
 of salvation has for

00:16:58.840 --> 00:16:59.720
 late medieval

00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:00.980
 Catholicism.

00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:02.919
 And if you read a

00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:03.279
 book that was

00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:04.500
 published last year by

00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:05.920
 the Roman Catholic

00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:06.799
 historian Brad

00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:08.160
 Gregory called The

00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:08.660
 Unintended

00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:10.099
 Reformation, it's an

00:17:10.099 --> 00:17:11.099
 amazing book, it's

00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:11.740
 this sort of brilliant

00:17:11.740 --> 00:17:13.339
 mix of amazing

00:17:13.339 --> 00:17:13.920
 learning and

00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:14.500
 scholarship and

00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:14.920
 I think an

00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:15.559
 utterly wrong

00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:16.460
 headed thesis.

00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:17.740
 But one of the

00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:18.380
 things that comes

00:17:18.380 --> 00:17:18.920
 through in that

00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:20.599
 book is how much

00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:21.859
 conservative Catholics

00:17:21.859 --> 00:17:23.400
 today hate late

00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:24.539
 medieval Catholicism

00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:26.099
 because they see a

00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:27.000
 clear connection

00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:27.940
 between late medieval

00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:28.740
 Catholicism and

00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:29.000
 Luther.

00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:30.160
 And what is that

00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:30.660
 connection?

00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:31.720
 Late medieval

00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:32.599
 Catholicism is

00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:33.920
 eroding the

00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:34.740
 importance of the

00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:36.059
 sacraments for

00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:36.619
 salvation.

00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:37.700
 And they see

00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:38.819
 Luther as, if you

00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:39.920
 like, the end

00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:41.299
 term of that

00:17:41.299 --> 00:17:42.400
 development.

00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.500
 So Luther's

00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:45.180
 articulating a

00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:45.780
 theology of

00:17:45.780 --> 00:17:46.519
 Heidelberg then

00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:48.400
 that is implicitly

00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.720
 corroding, eroding,

00:17:50.980 --> 00:17:52.540
 chipping away at the

00:17:52.540 --> 00:17:54.040
 authority of the

00:17:54.040 --> 00:17:54.519
 church.

00:17:56.280 --> 00:17:57.720
 This becomes explicit

00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:58.840
 in 1519.

00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:01.600
 The early years of the

00:18:01.600 --> 00:18:04.080
 Reformation, as is

00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:04.940
 always the way,

00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:06.440
 education institutions,

00:18:06.780 --> 00:18:07.740
 individual scholars,

00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:09.000
 are all jockeying

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:09.799
 for position, are

00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:10.480
 all trying to put

00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:11.779
 one over on each

00:18:11.779 --> 00:18:12.059
 other.

00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:13.660
 And a figure,

00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:16.279
 John Eck, challenges

00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:18.000
 Luther and Luther's

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.180
 colleague, a man

00:18:19.180 --> 00:18:19.859
 called Andreas

00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:20.680
 Bodenstein von

00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:22.079
 Karlstadt, who is

00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:23.400
 arguably equal, if

00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:24.259
 not senior to

00:18:24.259 --> 00:18:25.160
 Luther at this point

00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:26.240
 at Wittenberg,

00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:28.059
 challenges them to

00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:29.440
 debate at the

00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:30.039
 University of

00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:30.539
 Leipzig.

00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:31.900
 It's the Leipzig

00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:32.759
 disputation.

00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:33.759
 And I think the

00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:34.740
 Leipzig disputation

00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:36.140
 in 1519 is the

00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:37.860
 moment at which the

00:18:37.860 --> 00:18:39.840
 real issue becomes

00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:40.900
 obvious, both to the

00:18:40.900 --> 00:18:43.700
 Lutherans and to the

00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:45.040
 Catholic Church.

00:18:46.540 --> 00:18:47.259
 At Leipzig,

00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:48.759
 Huss is, not

00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:49.740
 Huss, Eck is a

00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:51.280
 very, very clever

00:18:51.280 --> 00:18:52.880
 debater and very

00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.380
 quickly zeros in on

00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:55.900
 the issue of

00:18:55.900 --> 00:18:56.440
 authority.

00:18:57.620 --> 00:18:58.680
 And Eck is actually

00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.620
 a better debater than

00:18:59.620 --> 00:19:01.600
 Luther and tricks

00:19:01.600 --> 00:19:03.640
 him into making a

00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.840
 number of mistakes.

00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:08.259
 most significantly,

00:19:09.540 --> 00:19:10.200
 well, Luther,

00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.580
 Luther preaches

00:19:12.580 --> 00:19:13.460
 before the debate

00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:14.200
 takes place.

00:19:14.259 --> 00:19:14.840
 And he preaches on

00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:15.420
 the power of the

00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:17.840
 keys, Matthew 16.

00:19:19.020 --> 00:19:20.720
 And Eck goes to

00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:21.120
 hear him.

00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:22.620
 And as Eck leaves

00:19:22.620 --> 00:19:25.820
 the church, in fact,

00:19:25.860 --> 00:19:26.540
 it may have been a

00:19:26.540 --> 00:19:27.160
 lecture, it may have

00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:27.460
 been a lecture

00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:28.020
 theatre, they may

00:19:28.020 --> 00:19:28.740
 have had to move it

00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:29.340
 because so many

00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:30.000
 showed up.

00:19:30.520 --> 00:19:32.540
 As Eck leaves the

00:19:32.540 --> 00:19:34.400
 service that day,

00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:35.500
 he says in a loud

00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:36.740
 voice to those

00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:37.580
 gathered around him,

00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:38.980
 that sermon was

00:19:38.980 --> 00:19:40.180
 completely bohemian.

00:19:41.560 --> 00:19:42.780
 What Eck is doing is

00:19:42.780 --> 00:19:43.620
 setting up his

00:19:43.620 --> 00:19:44.759
 strategy for the

00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:45.940
 subsequent debates.

00:19:46.620 --> 00:19:47.800
 Bohemian to us,

00:19:48.060 --> 00:19:49.360
 we think bohemian,

00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:50.140
 we think of the rock

00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:51.380
 group Queen, I guess,

00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:52.420
 Bohemian Rhapsody.

00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:55.580
 We think of people

00:19:55.580 --> 00:19:56.840
 who, you know, we

00:19:56.840 --> 00:19:58.200
 think of nightlife in

00:19:58.200 --> 00:19:59.779
 London, sort of weird,

00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:02.980
 way out, trendy, cool

00:20:02.980 --> 00:20:03.860
 kind of people.

00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:05.240
 Yeah, a bit like my

00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:06.259
 brother down in the

00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:07.019
 front row here.

00:20:10.220 --> 00:20:13.720
 In 1519, bohemian in

00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:14.940
 this context only means

00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:15.580
 one thing.

00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:17.240
 It means John Huss.

00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.079
 A hundred years

00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:20.480
 previously, John

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:22.440
 Huss, a Czech

00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:25.339
 reformer, had, in

00:20:25.339 --> 00:20:27.180
 fact, much of Huss's

00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:27.900
 story is actually

00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:28.539
 important to the

00:20:28.539 --> 00:20:29.140
 Luther story.

00:20:29.539 --> 00:20:30.480
 Huss travelled to the

00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:31.319
 Council of Constance,

00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:32.140
 which had been called

00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:33.279
 to try to sort out the

00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.759
 crisis in the papacy,

00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:36.200
 got three popes, got

00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:37.019
 to try to establish

00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:37.460
 which one the

00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:38.539
 legitimate one is.

00:20:39.120 --> 00:20:40.059
 Huss travelled under

00:20:40.059 --> 00:20:41.460
 safe conduct from

00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:42.420
 Prague to the

00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:43.299
 Council of Constance.

00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:44.900
 His safe conduct is

00:20:44.900 --> 00:20:45.980
 removed and Huss is

00:20:45.980 --> 00:20:46.900
 tried for heresy and

00:20:46.900 --> 00:20:47.660
 burned at the stake.

00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:48.980
 Key thing is, he's

00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:49.759
 been tried for heresy,

00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:50.560
 found guilty and

00:20:50.560 --> 00:20:51.460
 burned at the stake.

00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:53.800
 If you can tie Luther

00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:55.620
 in with Huss, then it's

00:20:55.620 --> 00:20:56.180
 game over.

00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.040
 He's a heretic and he

00:20:58.040 --> 00:20:59.660
 should pay the ultimate

00:20:59.660 --> 00:21:00.680
 price.

00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.340
 So Eck is setting up his

00:21:03.340 --> 00:21:04.180
 strategy for the

00:21:04.180 --> 00:21:04.880
 following day.

00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:06.519
 And in the debate with

00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:07.560
 Luther, he very quickly

00:21:07.560 --> 00:21:09.480
 starts to push Luther to

00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:10.240
 say, you know, you're

00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:11.140
 agreeing with Huss, you're

00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:11.960
 agreeing with Huss, you're

00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:12.740
 agreeing with Huss.

00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:14.160
 And at some point, Luther

00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:15.360
 almost in exasperation

00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:16.880
 says, you know, many of

00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:17.820
 the articles that were

00:21:17.820 --> 00:21:18.660
 condemned at the Council

00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:19.540
 of Constance are actually

00:21:19.540 --> 00:21:20.580
 thoroughly orthodox and

00:21:20.580 --> 00:21:21.960
 consistent with the

00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:22.880
 position of Augustine.

00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:24.200
 Bad move.

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:25.380
 Because what you're

00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:26.500
 essentially saying there

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:30.380
 is, I'm identifying

00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:32.220
 myself with a heretic.

00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:33.940
 More than that, of course,

00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:36.040
 you know, you have, Eck is

00:21:36.040 --> 00:21:37.820
 able to say, so, so, Luther,

00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:39.900
 you think the papacy is

00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:40.420
 erring?

00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.820
 You think councils erring?

00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:44.179
 What's left, man?

00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:46.119
 What kind of authority is

00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:46.480
 left?

00:21:47.539 --> 00:21:48.259
 You've taken away the

00:21:48.259 --> 00:21:49.619
 papacy, you've taken away

00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:51.819
 conciliarism, what's left?

00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:53.039
 What does the nature of

00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.000
 authority look like to you?

00:21:55.859 --> 00:21:56.679
 So the Leipzig

00:21:56.679 --> 00:21:59.039
 disputation brings clear to

00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.139
 the fore the implications,

00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:02.539
 the implicit things that

00:22:02.539 --> 00:22:03.139
 have been going on all

00:22:03.139 --> 00:22:03.319
 the time.

00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:04.339
 From the moment Luther

00:22:04.339 --> 00:22:05.859
 nails his 95 Theses to the

00:22:05.859 --> 00:22:07.119
 Castle in Wittburg, he

00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:08.099
 doesn't know it, but he's

00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:09.179
 actually challenging the

00:22:09.179 --> 00:22:10.079
 church's authority.

00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.019
 That becomes more explicit

00:22:12.019 --> 00:22:13.859
 at Heidelberg, and it

00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:15.939
 becomes absolutely explicit

00:22:15.939 --> 00:22:17.799
 in the Leipzig

00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:19.019
 disputation.

00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:22.379
 We then come to the great

00:22:22.379 --> 00:22:24.639
 year of 1520 for Martin

00:22:24.639 --> 00:22:24.859
 Luther.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:26.720
 1520 is the year in which

00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.000
 I think in some ways Luther

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.659
 is never more optimistic

00:22:30.659 --> 00:22:32.859
 than he is in 1520.

00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:36.599
 He's survived thus far.

00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:38.079
 That in itself is quite an

00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:38.460
 achievement.

00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:40.920
 It's becoming clear to him

00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:42.440
 that he thought the Pope

00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:44.279
 would answer to his rallying

00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:45.480
 cry and reform the church.

00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:47.120
 It's becoming clear that

00:22:47.120 --> 00:22:47.960
 that's not going to happen.

00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:48.600
 And I think it's also

00:22:48.600 --> 00:22:49.900
 becoming clear to him that

00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:51.720
 his vision of reform is

00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:52.640
 somewhat different from

00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:53.579
 some of the other visions

00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:54.559
 of reform out there.

00:22:54.819 --> 00:22:55.620
 There are a lot of people

00:22:55.620 --> 00:22:56.259
 in the beginning of the

00:22:56.259 --> 00:22:58.079
 16th century who want to

00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:59.100
 reform the church.

00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:00.640
 Many of them think the

00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.259
 problem is a bureaucratic

00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:02.700
 one.

00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:04.480
 Clean up the bureaucracy,

00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:06.299
 clean up the moral sleaze in

00:23:06.299 --> 00:23:07.140
 the church and everything

00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:07.880
 will be okay.

00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:09.840
 Luther's reformation is

00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:10.860
 heading in a very different

00:23:10.860 --> 00:23:11.420
 direction.

00:23:12.100 --> 00:23:12.900
 That the fundamental

00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:14.220
 reformation has to be a

00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:16.000
 theological or a doctrinal

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:16.319
 one.

00:23:16.819 --> 00:23:19.380
 And 1520 is the year of

00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:21.380
 the three great treaties.

00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:22.539
 If you've never read

00:23:22.539 --> 00:23:24.500
 Luther then 1520 is a good

00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:25.259
 place to start.

00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:26.559
 It's much more accessible

00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.200
 in many ways than 1517.

00:23:28.579 --> 00:23:29.600
 Much more accessible even

00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:30.340
 than the Heidelberg

00:23:30.340 --> 00:23:31.500
 disputation.

00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:33.640
 Luther writes three great

00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:35.279
 treaties among numerous

00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:36.799
 other things in this year.

00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:38.059
 The freedom of the Christian

00:23:38.059 --> 00:23:40.119
 man, the Babylonian

00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:41.639
 captivity of the church,

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.519
 and the appeal to the

00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.519
 German nobility.

00:23:46.019 --> 00:23:46.879
 Freedom of the Christian

00:23:46.879 --> 00:23:48.480
 man is essentially his

00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.839
 reconstruction of Christian

00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.000
 ethics in the light of his

00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.119
 developing new understanding

00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.059
 of justification by grace

00:23:58.059 --> 00:23:59.139
 through faith.

00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:01.099
 Good works are necessary,

00:24:01.099 --> 00:24:02.980
 but they flow as a response

00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:05.919
 to God's action in Christ.

00:24:06.159 --> 00:24:08.219
 Knowing that God has freed us

00:24:08.219 --> 00:24:09.359
 through Christ from the need

00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:10.279
 to work for our own

00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:12.799
 justification, we can work

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:14.379
 for our neighbour freely.

00:24:15.219 --> 00:24:16.179
 The freedom of the Christian

00:24:16.179 --> 00:24:17.359
 man, if you like, is freedom

00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:18.579
 from the curse of the law,

00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:22.359
 and freedom to be a slave to

00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:23.939
 our neighbour, to give of

00:24:23.939 --> 00:24:25.980
 ourselves to our neighbour.

00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:28.819
 Babylonian captivity of the

00:24:28.819 --> 00:24:32.500
 church is his reconstruction

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:34.539
 of the sacramental system

00:24:34.539 --> 00:24:36.440
 of the Catholic church.

00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:37.140
 The Catholic church has

00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:39.019
 seven sacraments, Luther

00:24:39.019 --> 00:24:39.880
 reduces them.

00:24:40.299 --> 00:24:41.019
 Well, the treatise is

00:24:41.019 --> 00:24:41.779
 somewhat ambiguous.

00:24:42.380 --> 00:24:43.400
 The treatise itself says

00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:45.099
 that penance is a sacrament,

00:24:45.620 --> 00:24:46.519
 and in the conclusion he

00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:47.200
 says, you know, I'm not

00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:48.120
 sure that penance is a

00:24:48.120 --> 00:24:49.059
 sacrament after all.

00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.940
 So, he reduces it either

00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:52.299
 to three or to two

00:24:52.299 --> 00:24:53.220
 sacraments, depending

00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:54.400
 which part of the treatise

00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:56.680
 you prioritise.

00:24:57.100 --> 00:24:58.120
 But Luther gets rid of

00:24:58.120 --> 00:24:59.480
 marriage, holy orders,

00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:02.080
 final unction, and

00:25:02.080 --> 00:25:05.380
 confirmation as sacraments,

00:25:05.900 --> 00:25:07.300
 retains the Mass,

00:25:08.360 --> 00:25:10.000
 retains baptism,

00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.460
 and possibly retains

00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:13.519
 penance.

00:25:15.060 --> 00:25:16.120
 Reconstructs the meaning

00:25:16.120 --> 00:25:17.360
 of baptism and the Mass,

00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:17.560
 though.

00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.519
 Baptism ceases to be a

00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:20.600
 washing or a healing,

00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.440
 and comes to be death

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:24.140
 and resurrection.

00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:25.220
 It's connected with

00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:26.120
 Luther's new understanding

00:25:26.120 --> 00:25:26.540
 of sin.

00:25:26.660 --> 00:25:27.500
 Sin isn't a wound,

00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:28.740
 sin isn't a weakness,

00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:30.340
 sin is the status of

00:25:30.340 --> 00:25:30.740
 death.

00:25:31.080 --> 00:25:32.300
 If you're dead, you don't

00:25:32.300 --> 00:25:32.940
 need to be healed.

00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:33.920
 You don't need to be

00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.100
 cleaned, you need to be

00:25:35.100 --> 00:25:35.540
 resurrected.

00:25:36.540 --> 00:25:37.259
 You need to bring your

00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:38.180
 understanding of baptism

00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:39.280
 into line with your

00:25:39.280 --> 00:25:40.680
 understanding of sin.

00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:41.660
 And often, as

00:25:41.660 --> 00:25:42.700
 evangelicals, we can

00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:43.960
 tend to forget that

00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:45.800
 Luther's pathway to

00:25:45.800 --> 00:25:47.240
 justification by faith

00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:48.860
 is intimately connected

00:25:48.860 --> 00:25:49.800
 to his reflections on

00:25:49.800 --> 00:25:50.160
 baptism.

00:25:50.500 --> 00:25:51.080
 It's actually quite a

00:25:51.080 --> 00:25:52.100
 sacramental pathway

00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:53.980
 when you trace it out.

00:25:54.879 --> 00:25:55.559
 He changes his

00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:56.179
 understanding of the

00:25:56.179 --> 00:25:57.299
 Lord's Supper from being,

00:25:58.079 --> 00:25:59.740
 well, interestingly enough,

00:25:59.779 --> 00:26:00.500
 his criticism of

00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:02.639
 transubstantiation is not

00:26:02.639 --> 00:26:04.539
 that the body and blood

00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:05.799
 of Christ are present.

00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:07.599
 His criticism of

00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:08.819
 transubstantiation is that

00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:09.599
 the bread and wine are

00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:09.919
 absent.

00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:11.579
 Luther wants both.

00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:12.579
 You have the bread and

00:26:12.579 --> 00:26:14.439
 wine, and you have the

00:26:14.439 --> 00:26:15.539
 body and blood of Christ.

00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:17.740
 Later, he will talk about

00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:18.519
 the body and blood of

00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:20.379
 Christ in, with, and under

00:26:20.379 --> 00:26:23.240
 the elements of bread and

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:23.720
 wine.

00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:26.440
 And penance is really,

00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:27.819
 penance is effectively,

00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:28.779
 it's sort of, almost,

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:29.819
 you might say, kind of

00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:30.920
 cancelling now.

00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:33.259
 It's sort of speaking the

00:26:33.259 --> 00:26:34.319
 gospel, the law and the

00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:35.159
 gospel to each other,

00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:36.139
 almost on a one-to-one

00:26:36.139 --> 00:26:36.539
 basis.

00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:38.779
 You know, you come across

00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:39.639
 a friend sinning, it's

00:26:39.639 --> 00:26:40.420
 your responsibility to

00:26:40.420 --> 00:26:41.399
 rebuke him for his sin,

00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:43.740
 and then he repents to

00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:44.599
 speak to him words of

00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:46.039
 comfort through the

00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:46.419
 gospel.

00:26:47.299 --> 00:26:48.699
 So the sacramental system

00:26:48.699 --> 00:26:50.259
 is reconfigured.

00:26:50.819 --> 00:26:51.779
 And finally, the appeal

00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:52.859
 to the German nobility.

00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:56.719
 It's becoming obvious

00:26:56.719 --> 00:26:57.639
 the church authorities

00:26:57.639 --> 00:26:58.379
 aren't going to reform

00:26:58.379 --> 00:26:58.980
 themselves.

00:26:59.899 --> 00:27:00.859
 So to whom does one

00:27:00.859 --> 00:27:01.759
 look for a reformation

00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:02.319
 at this point?

00:27:02.419 --> 00:27:02.980
 To the princes.

00:27:03.659 --> 00:27:04.059
 It's a brilliant

00:27:04.059 --> 00:27:04.779
 political move.

00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:07.259
 You know, no prince is

00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:07.919
 going to object to

00:27:07.919 --> 00:27:08.859
 having more power,

00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:09.899
 and potentially more

00:27:09.899 --> 00:27:10.240
 money.

00:27:10.899 --> 00:27:11.619
 So it's a, you know,

00:27:11.639 --> 00:27:12.459
 it's a pretty easy

00:27:12.459 --> 00:27:13.419
 sale to the princes.

00:27:13.939 --> 00:27:14.319
 It's one of the

00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.419
 reasons why it's so

00:27:16.419 --> 00:27:17.559
 difficult for Mary,

00:27:17.679 --> 00:27:18.720
 the first of England,

00:27:18.919 --> 00:27:20.579
 to get Catholicism

00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:21.759
 back to England.

00:27:21.899 --> 00:27:22.720
 You know, when Edward

00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:24.019
 VI, the young boy

00:27:24.019 --> 00:27:25.460
 king, died, his

00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:26.879
 older sister, Mary I,

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.500
 was a very reactionary

00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:30.259
 Catholic, succeeded

00:27:30.259 --> 00:27:30.939
 to the throne.

00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:33.099
 Amidst cheers, you know,

00:27:33.139 --> 00:27:34.000
 the English people are

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:34.879
 just so glad that

00:27:34.879 --> 00:27:36.339
 Catholicism has come

00:27:36.339 --> 00:27:37.159
 back, because the

00:27:37.159 --> 00:27:37.799
 Protestants, they

00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:38.859
 seem, are so corrupt.

00:27:39.919 --> 00:27:40.980
 Mary does two brilliant

00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:41.619
 things for the

00:27:41.619 --> 00:27:42.019
 Protestants.

00:27:42.019 --> 00:27:43.400
 One, she burns them.

00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:45.119
 That doesn't sound too

00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:46.319
 brilliant, but actually,

00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:47.879
 what it does is it

00:27:47.879 --> 00:27:49.460
 creates public sympathy

00:27:49.460 --> 00:27:50.700
 for Protestantism that

00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:51.960
 was never there before.

00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:53.559
 It allows Protestantism

00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:54.859
 to rehabilitate itself

00:27:54.859 --> 00:27:56.319
 in the public eyes.

00:27:57.079 --> 00:27:58.579
 And secondly, the other

00:27:58.579 --> 00:27:59.700
 thing she can't do is

00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:00.480
 that I think she

00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:01.339
 underestimates how much

00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:02.220
 money the Catholic

00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:03.319
 nobility have made out

00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:03.639
 of the English

00:28:03.639 --> 00:28:04.139
 Reformation.

00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:05.720
 When Henry VIII

00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:08.980
 appropriates church land

00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:11.240
 and sells it, who's

00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:11.860
 making money?

00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:13.599
 Who's getting land

00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:14.000
 cheap?

00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:15.559
 The nobility.

00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:17.039
 The nobility, are they

00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:17.720
 Protestant or Catholic?

00:28:17.779 --> 00:28:18.440
 They're predominantly

00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:19.099
 Catholic.

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:21.240
 And so, the Catholic

00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:22.240
 nobility of England, I

00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:22.880
 think, are heavily

00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.960
 invested in the

00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:27.000
 Protestantisation of

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:27.220
 England.

00:28:27.819 --> 00:28:28.380
 I mean, there's nothing

00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:29.779
 like money to really

00:28:29.779 --> 00:28:30.900
 appeal where somebody,

00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:31.880
 you know, theological

00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:33.319
 conviction, making money,

00:28:34.120 --> 00:28:35.019
 it's always a bit of a,

00:28:35.380 --> 00:28:37.259
 an even balance, isn't

00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:37.420
 it?

00:28:38.379 --> 00:28:39.299
 Appeal to the German

00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:40.660
 nobility, then.

00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:42.839
 The appeal to the

00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:43.480
 German nobility

00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:44.960
 essentially says to the

00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:46.779
 nobles, take back what

00:28:46.779 --> 00:28:47.879
 is rightfully yours.

00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:51.220
 The church has expanded

00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:53.500
 its sphere of power into

00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:54.379
 what we would now call

00:28:54.379 --> 00:28:55.480
 the secular realm.

00:28:56.180 --> 00:28:57.759
 And it is time for you

00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:59.960
 to take back that power.

00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:02.000
 And so, if you like,

00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:02.599
 there could be a sort of

00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:03.619
 negative reform of the

00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:04.900
 church by stripping it

00:29:04.900 --> 00:29:06.700
 of its worldly and

00:29:06.700 --> 00:29:08.480
 earthly pretensions.

00:29:10.059 --> 00:29:11.340
 Underlying all of these

00:29:11.340 --> 00:29:12.580
 three books is Luther's

00:29:12.580 --> 00:29:13.680
 great confidence that

00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.400
 just preaching the word

00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:17.200
 of God will bring about

00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.900
 the Reformation in

00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:19.240
 Germany.

00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:20.440
 We just, we're at the

00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:21.799
 end of time, we preach

00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:23.180
 the word, the word goes

00:29:23.180 --> 00:29:24.319
 out, it does not return

00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:26.519
 empty, all will fall

00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:27.160
 before it.

00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:28.559
 Think of that line in

00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:29.680
 A Mighty Fortress,

00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:31.640
 one little word shall

00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:32.279
 fell him.

00:29:32.819 --> 00:29:35.000
 Great confidence in the

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:37.059
 preaching of the word

00:29:37.059 --> 00:29:38.900
 rooted against the

00:29:38.900 --> 00:29:39.759
 background of this

00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:41.220
 eschatological hope,

00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:42.559
 this expectation which

00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:43.960
 is, you know, not

00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:45.460
 unprecedented in the

00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:46.660
 late medieval period and

00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:47.380
 another one of those

00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:48.019
 things that makes

00:29:48.019 --> 00:29:48.960
 Luther in some ways a

00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:50.099
 man of the middle ages

00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:51.660
 rather than a man of

00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:52.740
 the early modern age.

00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:56.039
 It never gets better than

00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:56.759
 1520.

00:29:58.259 --> 00:29:59.599
 The end of 1520, the

00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:01.420
 papal bull of excommunication,

00:30:01.539 --> 00:30:03.559
 ex-Sergé Domine, arrives

00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:04.240
 in Wittenberg.

00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.220
 Sixty days after its

00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:09.380
 arrival, the faculty and

00:30:09.380 --> 00:30:10.940
 the high hedions of

00:30:10.940 --> 00:30:13.359
 Wittenberg process into the

00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:15.039
 Terram Square and they have

00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:16.160
 a mass bonfire.

00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:18.859
 By and large, the

00:30:18.859 --> 00:30:20.000
 Lutherans didn't burn books

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:20.920
 to suppress them.

00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:21.900
 It's a bad move.

00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:22.740
 Burning books to suppress

00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:23.580
 them just makes them more

00:30:23.580 --> 00:30:23.860
 interesting.

00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:24.720
 It would be like banning,

00:30:24.820 --> 00:30:26.100
 ban the Rolling Stones

00:30:26.100 --> 00:30:27.880
 from the radio in the

00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:28.940
 60s and you guarantee

00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:31.200
 they get to number one.

00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:32.800
 But there is a book

00:30:32.800 --> 00:30:34.580
 burning this day and the

00:30:34.580 --> 00:30:35.779
 books that are burned are,

00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:36.940
 it's the papal bull is

00:30:36.940 --> 00:30:37.340
 burned.

00:30:38.259 --> 00:30:39.140
 And that's the one in

00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:39.740
 some ways that often

00:30:39.740 --> 00:30:41.000
 captures our imagination.

00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:42.019
 Luther's received the

00:30:42.019 --> 00:30:43.060
 papal bull and he throws

00:30:43.060 --> 00:30:43.700
 it in the fire.

00:30:43.800 --> 00:30:44.920
 How cool is that?

00:30:46.300 --> 00:30:48.019
 But just as significant is

00:30:48.019 --> 00:30:48.880
 the burning of the books

00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:49.740
 of canon law.

00:30:51.140 --> 00:30:52.100
 In some ways the burning

00:30:52.100 --> 00:30:52.820
 of the books of canon law

00:30:52.820 --> 00:30:54.160
 is more powerful as a

00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:55.120
 gesture because it's not

00:30:55.120 --> 00:30:56.980
 only saying we defy your

00:30:56.980 --> 00:30:57.940
 authority on the issue

00:30:57.940 --> 00:30:58.380
 of Luther.

00:30:58.840 --> 00:30:59.880
 Burning of the books of

00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:02.020
 canon law says we defy

00:31:02.020 --> 00:31:02.660
 your authority.

00:31:03.300 --> 00:31:04.120
 End of story.

00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:06.580
 Everything that represents

00:31:06.580 --> 00:31:07.760
 who and what you are,

00:31:08.060 --> 00:31:08.900
 we're throwing on the

00:31:08.900 --> 00:31:10.720
 bonfire today and getting

00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:11.200
 rid of it.

00:31:12.540 --> 00:31:13.860
 1520 then is in some

00:31:13.860 --> 00:31:14.880
 ways Luther's most

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:15.760
 glorious year.

00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.400
 It never gets better than

00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:19.180
 1520.

00:31:19.779 --> 00:31:20.779
 Luther is never more

00:31:20.779 --> 00:31:22.539
 optimistic I think than he

00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:24.119
 is in 1520.

00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:27.000
 We then come to a series

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.819
 of crises that will change

00:31:30.819 --> 00:31:32.319
 Luther's thinking forever.

00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:37.039
 First crisis is the crisis

00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:38.879
 of late 1521-1522.

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:39.980
 Bit of a back story.

00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:43.940
 Luther has been summoned to

00:31:43.940 --> 00:31:44.940
 the Diet of Worms.

00:31:45.120 --> 00:31:46.100
 It's a bit of a legal

00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:47.160
 problem because once you're

00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:48.400
 excommunicated you have no

00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:49.680
 legal status and there is

00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:50.299
 some debate.

00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:51.559
 It reminds me of a sort of

00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:53.460
 classic OPC kind of debate

00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.340
 takes place in Rome.

00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:56.940
 How do you summons Luther to

00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:58.840
 an imperial diet when he's

00:31:58.840 --> 00:32:00.019
 already been excommunicated?

00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:02.480
 Is there any procedural way

00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:03.120
 we can do this?

00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:03.900
 And finally they decide

00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:05.299
 well probably there isn't

00:32:05.299 --> 00:32:05.920
 but we're going to do it

00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:06.240
 anyway.

00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:08.220
 So they summons Luther to

00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:09.880
 meet before the emperor

00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:11.620
 at the Diet of Worms.

00:32:11.619 --> 00:32:14.119
 And it's a magnificent

00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:14.819
 moment.

00:32:15.739 --> 00:32:16.759
 Here you have this man

00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:18.039
 who three years earlier

00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:18.919
 four years earlier he was

00:32:18.919 --> 00:32:20.559
 just an unknown professional

00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:22.299
 academic and pastor in

00:32:22.299 --> 00:32:22.739
 Wittenberg.

00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:23.739
 Now he's the most famous

00:32:23.739 --> 00:32:24.479
 man in Europe.

00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:26.539
 And he's taken place and he

00:32:26.539 --> 00:32:28.219
 has to stand before the

00:32:28.219 --> 00:32:30.259
 emperor and answer for his

00:32:30.259 --> 00:32:30.779
 opinions.

00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:32.539
 You can only imagine how

00:32:32.539 --> 00:32:33.839
 terrified he must have been.

00:32:34.139 --> 00:32:35.199
 Famously of course on the

00:32:35.199 --> 00:32:36.359
 first day when Luther is

00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:37.479
 asked are these your books

00:32:37.479 --> 00:32:38.719
 and do you recount them?

00:32:39.259 --> 00:32:40.759
 Luther says I need time to

00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:41.619
 think about my answer.

00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:43.359
 You know as if he wasn't

00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:44.539
 expecting that question.

00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:45.759
 Scholars have always

00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:46.960
 debated why does he delay?

00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.660
 Is it part of some sneaky

00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:50.619
 strategy to wrong foot the

00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:51.059
 opposition?

00:32:51.859 --> 00:32:52.720
 Or is it just that he was

00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:53.160
 scared?

00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:55.200
 Possible that he was just

00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.500
 scared and at that moment

00:32:56.500 --> 00:32:58.200
 his nerves started to go and

00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.059
 he needed time to gather his

00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:00.579
 thoughts.

00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:03.940
 Worms, the Diet of Worms

00:33:03.940 --> 00:33:07.140
 really ends fairly inconclusively.

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.000
 And as Luther is riding away

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:10.700
 from Worms, he's kidnapped.

00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:12.460
 Frederick the Wise sends out a

00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:14.500
 sort of a SWAT team if you

00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:16.460
 like to seize Luther on his

00:33:16.460 --> 00:33:18.220
 way back to Wittenberg and

00:33:18.220 --> 00:33:20.700
 whisk him up to the Wartburg

00:33:20.700 --> 00:33:22.539
 castle which stands high over

00:33:22.539 --> 00:33:25.640
 the town of Eisenach.

00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:27.980
 If you ever do a Reformation

00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:29.440
 tour, Eisenach is one of those

00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.079
 great two for one towns.

00:33:31.660 --> 00:33:34.259
 You've got the castle on the

00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:36.440
 hill and then down in the town,

00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:37.740
 who was born in Eisenach?

00:33:37.860 --> 00:33:39.200
 Which other famous person was

00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.080
 born in Eisenach?

00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:42.840
 Johann Sebastian Bach.

00:33:43.180 --> 00:33:44.360
 You've got the Bach birth

00:33:44.360 --> 00:33:45.840
 house and the great museum

00:33:45.840 --> 00:33:46.100
 there.

00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:47.759
 So it's a wonderful place to

00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:50.480
 go on a sort of tourist visit.

00:33:50.580 --> 00:33:51.559
 You get two for one.

00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:55.480
 Luther is closeted away in this

00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:56.940
 castle up on the hill.

00:33:57.799 --> 00:33:59.539
 He lives under the pseudonym of

00:33:59.539 --> 00:34:00.380
 Sir George.

00:34:00.820 --> 00:34:02.779
 He does do some little expeditions

00:34:02.779 --> 00:34:05.460
 out into the hinterland at

00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:05.879
 points.

00:34:06.399 --> 00:34:08.880
 There's a famous story of a

00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:10.360
 group of students arriving in a

00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:12.400
 pub late one night and they

00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:13.820
 notice in the corner there's a

00:34:13.820 --> 00:34:15.119
 knight sitting there with a big

00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.259
 sword and bushy beard and this

00:34:17.259 --> 00:34:19.039
 knight is reading the Psalms in

00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:19.340
 Hebrew.

00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.900
 And that's not a normal scene in

00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:26.199
 a medieval German tavern.

00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:27.940
 So the students go there on their

00:34:27.940 --> 00:34:29.039
 way to Wittenberg to start their

00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:29.980
 theological studies and they go

00:34:29.980 --> 00:34:31.400
 over and sit with this knight and

00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:34.019
 this knight expands the Psalms in

00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:35.119
 Hebrew to them showing them how

00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:36.559
 Christ is in the Psalms.

00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:38.180
 And at the end of the evening when

00:34:38.180 --> 00:34:39.180
 they get up together the knight's

00:34:39.180 --> 00:34:40.360
 going they find that the knight has

00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:41.240
 paid their bill.

00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:43.039
 I mean that's the nicest part of

00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:43.960
 the story in some ways.

00:34:44.680 --> 00:34:45.820
 And then some months later at

00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:46.980
 Wittenberg they're waiting their

00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:49.559
 first class with Martin Luther who

00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:51.300
 walks through the door but the man

00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:52.940
 they recognize as this knight they

00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:54.500
 met in this tavern.

00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:58.400
 So Luther does some quiet incognito

00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:00.400
 visits to Saxony.

00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:04.880
 Saxony while he is sequestered at the

00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:05.260
 castle.

00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:08.160
 But this is where the Wittenberg

00:35:08.160 --> 00:35:09.720
 Reformation takes a turn for the

00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:10.240
 worst.

00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:13.920
 The leadership of Wittenberg falls to

00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.139
 Karstadt who we've met.

00:35:15.260 --> 00:35:16.840
 Philip Melanchthon the brilliant young

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:18.619
 Greek scholar who becomes professor of

00:35:18.619 --> 00:35:21.619
 Greek at Wittenberg age 21 if you can

00:35:21.619 --> 00:35:22.300
 imagine that.

00:35:22.860 --> 00:35:24.820
 And a man called Conrad Zwilling.

00:35:24.820 --> 00:35:29.100
 And not Melanchthon but Karstadt and

00:35:29.100 --> 00:35:30.220
 Zwilling really want to push the

00:35:30.220 --> 00:35:31.880
 Reformation in a radical direction and

00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:34.820
 so they stir up iconoclastic riots.

00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:37.720
 Luther returns to Wittenberg in December

00:35:37.720 --> 00:35:40.300
 1521 just to see what's going on and

00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:40.920
 it's bad.

00:35:41.420 --> 00:35:42.140
 There's rioting.

00:35:43.100 --> 00:35:45.880
 And then finally in 1522 Frederick the

00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:47.360
 Wise brings Luther back and it's this

00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:48.900
 point he preaches that sermon where he

00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:50.080
 talks about sitting in the pub and

00:35:50.080 --> 00:35:50.820
 drinking beer.

00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:55.519
 1522 is actually the point I think in

00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:56.700
 Luther's career where he's most

00:35:56.700 --> 00:35:57.160
 vulnerable.

00:35:57.740 --> 00:36:00.100
 We tend to think of diet of worms.

00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:02.860
 Actually I think it's the riots of

00:36:02.860 --> 00:36:03.640
 1522.

00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:07.460
 Because if Luther can't bring the people

00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:09.760
 back under control Frederick the Wise

00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:11.800
 will certainly pull his support from it.

00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:14.440
 Frederick the Wise will have to engage in

00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:17.000
 what we call military intervention and

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:18.080
 Luther will be finished.

00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:20.440
 And Luther by sheer force of

00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:23.059
 personality is able to bring the riots

00:36:23.059 --> 00:36:23.780
 under control.

00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:26.960
 But what this does is it brings to

00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:29.639
 Luther's attention that preaching the

00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:31.039
 word may not be enough.

00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.119
 That bad stuff is starting to happen in

00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:35.760
 the Reformation.

00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:38.380
 It becomes intensified in 1525.

00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:42.260
 1525 is a fascinating year in Luther's

00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:42.559
 life.

00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:45.460
 He engages in his brutal polemic with

00:36:45.460 --> 00:36:47.619
 Erasmus over the perspicuity of

00:36:47.619 --> 00:36:49.380
 scripture and the bondage of the will.

00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.720
 He marries Catherine von Bora.

00:36:53.900 --> 00:36:55.300
 If you go to Wittenberg you go to the

00:36:55.300 --> 00:36:57.119
 he was given by Frederick the Wise he

00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:57.900
 was given the

00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:01.680
 the old monastery as a gift as a

00:37:01.680 --> 00:37:03.280
 wedding gift and because being a

00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:04.740
 reformer doesn't bring in much money

00:37:04.740 --> 00:37:05.940
 Luther and his wife would have

00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:07.619
 students to lodge at the house and

00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:09.860
 at the doorway there's these two

00:37:09.860 --> 00:37:10.800
 little chairs

00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:13.300
 cut in stone and the door of the

00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:14.800
 Augustinian the former Augustinian

00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:15.240
 monastery.

00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:18.259
 And that was a birthday present that

00:37:18.259 --> 00:37:19.979
 Katie bought for Luther because she

00:37:19.979 --> 00:37:21.159
 didn't think they spent enough time

00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:22.179
 talking to each other.

00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:24.519
 So she bought this door frame this

00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:26.279
 stone door frame with these two

00:37:26.279 --> 00:37:28.639
 chairs so that on sunny days they

00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:29.939
 could spend time sitting on either

00:37:29.939 --> 00:37:31.959
 side of the door and talking to each

00:37:31.959 --> 00:37:32.099
 other.

00:37:32.179 --> 00:37:33.899
 And if you go inside upstairs there's a

00:37:33.899 --> 00:37:36.259
 room where the same thing occurs in a

00:37:36.259 --> 00:37:37.079
 window as well.

00:37:37.759 --> 00:37:39.839
 And so if it was raining outside they

00:37:39.839 --> 00:37:40.899
 could go up and they could actually

00:37:40.899 --> 00:37:43.199
 spend some time sitting and talking

00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:44.039
 together.

00:37:44.179 --> 00:37:45.439
 So the marriage is very sweet.

00:37:46.299 --> 00:37:48.079
 It's a PR disaster at the time

00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:49.519
 though because Luther gets married at

00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:50.960
 the height of what historians call

00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:52.480
 the Peasants' Rebellion or the

00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:53.179
 Peasants' War.

00:37:53.779 --> 00:37:54.859
 Really from the beginning of the

00:37:54.859 --> 00:37:58.539
 16th century a series of peasant

00:37:58.539 --> 00:38:01.679
 rebellions, peasant unrest have been

00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:03.739
 sort of popping up over the Holy

00:38:03.739 --> 00:38:04.480
 Roman Empire.

00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.279
 And they come to a sort of climax in

00:38:07.279 --> 00:38:10.839
 1525, a major explosion of unrest.

00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:13.019
 And the imperial armies made up of

00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:15.120
 Protestants and Catholics march against

00:38:15.120 --> 00:38:16.460
 the peasants to put them down.

00:38:17.620 --> 00:38:19.980
 Many of these peasants are using the

00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:21.920
 rhetoric of Luther to justify their

00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:22.220
 cause.

00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.800
 Luther's freedom rhetoric strikes a

00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.480
 deep chord with the peasants.

00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:29.160
 And they're claiming to be with

00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:29.500
 Luther.

00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:31.800
 Luther first of all is sympathetic to

00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.539
 some of their claims, some of their

00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.539
 calls, but ultimately has to radically

00:38:35.539 --> 00:38:37.860
 distance himself from them because it's

00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:39.640
 like 1522 all over again.

00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:41.920
 If the Reformation becomes identified

00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:45.599
 with revolution, social revolution, the

00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.980
 nobility, do we want social stability or

00:38:48.980 --> 00:38:50.000
 do we want Protestantism?

00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:51.679
 We've got to go for social stability.

00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:55.139
 The nobles will cut Luther adrift.

00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:59.039
 So Luther comes out swinging against the

00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:03.000
 peasants and again it sets in his mind the

00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.259
 idea that maybe the preaching of the word is

00:39:05.259 --> 00:39:07.559
 not going to be enough after all.

00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:11.539
 1529, just very briefly of course, he falls

00:39:11.539 --> 00:39:13.840
 out with Holger Zwingli over the Lord's

00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:14.059
 Supper.

00:39:14.139 --> 00:39:15.559
 That's often very difficult for us to think

00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:18.900
 why is Luther prepared to break over the

00:39:18.900 --> 00:39:19.400
 Lord's Supper?

00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.039
 Why is he prepared to break Protestantism

00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:21.840
 over the Lord's Supper?

00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:23.219
 Why does he say to Zwingli we're of a

00:39:23.219 --> 00:39:25.500
 different spirit on this issue?

00:39:26.799 --> 00:39:28.900
 Persists strongly in Lutheranism.

00:39:28.900 --> 00:39:33.300
 At the end of the 16th century, Theodore

00:39:33.300 --> 00:39:36.400
 Beza, Calvin's successor at Geneva, is

00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:38.380
 involved in an ecumenical dialogue with the

00:39:38.380 --> 00:39:41.320
 Lutherans and at the end he offers the

00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.519
 Lutheran theologian the hand of Christian

00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:43.940
 fellowship.

00:39:44.720 --> 00:39:46.680
 And the Lutheran theologian says, I won't

00:39:46.680 --> 00:39:48.260
 shake your hand out of Christian fellowship,

00:39:48.980 --> 00:39:51.820
 but I will shake it out of civic fellowship.

00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:53.600
 In other words, you're not a Christian.

00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:55.780
 Runs very deep.

00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:58.780
 Disillusioning to Luther that Protestantism

00:39:58.780 --> 00:40:01.039
 has split, even though really he is, I

00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:02.380
 think he has to take the lion's share of

00:40:02.380 --> 00:40:03.840
 the blame for that.

00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:08.000
 And then in 1530, Philip Melanchthon,

00:40:08.100 --> 00:40:10.100
 Luther's right-hand man, puts together the

00:40:10.100 --> 00:40:11.320
 Augsburg Confession.

00:40:12.100 --> 00:40:14.140
 If you have the Book of Concord, the

00:40:14.140 --> 00:40:16.539
 Lutheran confessional documents, the

00:40:16.539 --> 00:40:18.059
 Augsburg Confession is sort of the

00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:21.139
 centerpiece of Lutheran confessional

00:40:21.139 --> 00:40:23.519
 identity.

00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:26.960
 It's written by Philip Melanchthon in 1530

00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:30.519
 in an attempt to provide a Protestant

00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.420
 confessional basis for the Holy Roman

00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:33.920
 Empire.

00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.639
 And the emperor refuses to subscribe it.

00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:41.039
 And only a handful of the princes

00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:42.840
 subscribe the confession.

00:40:43.799 --> 00:40:45.579
 And it's at that point that Luther, I

00:40:45.579 --> 00:40:48.039
 think, realizes it's done.

00:40:49.059 --> 00:40:52.420
 We're never going to see a united

00:40:52.420 --> 00:40:55.059
 Protestant Europe under the banner of

00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:56.360
 the Reformation.

00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:58.019
 Interestingly enough, at that point,

00:40:58.099 --> 00:41:00.679
 Luther actually shifts his view of

00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:01.139
 rebellion.

00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:03.380
 Everybody knows that Luther teaches, you

00:41:03.380 --> 00:41:04.639
 know, that you should always submit to

00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:05.900
 the civil authorities.

00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.539
 Well, actually, the later Luther is

00:41:08.539 --> 00:41:09.420
 slightly different.

00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:12.719
 After 1530, Luther thinks that the

00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.019
 electors, the princes in the empire,

00:41:15.779 --> 00:41:17.279
 can resist the emperor.

00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.300
 Because, of course, it's the electors who

00:41:20.300 --> 00:41:23.060
 elect the emperor, and therefore power

00:41:23.060 --> 00:41:25.640
 kind of flows from them to the emperor

00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:27.800
 before the emperor has it, and therefore

00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:29.460
 they're able to resist him.

00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:31.800
 It's very convenient for Luther, of course,

00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:33.180
 because it means that the elector of

00:41:33.180 --> 00:41:36.980
 Saxony can maintain Lutheranism in

00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:39.780
 opposition to imperial policy.

00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:42.280
 So, there's that that kicks in.

00:41:42.340 --> 00:41:45.560
 And then also, in the late 1520s,

00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:47.880
 Melanchthon and Luther head up a

00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:50.600
 visitation of, you know, what's going on

00:41:50.600 --> 00:41:53.300
 in Saxony relative to Protestant churches.

00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:54.920
 Let's find out what life's like on the

00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:55.240
 ground.

00:41:55.680 --> 00:41:57.240
 And they are horrified by what they

00:41:57.240 --> 00:41:57.660
 discover.

00:41:57.659 --> 00:42:00.000
 Not only have we got these political

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.699
 crises that are shattering Luther's

00:42:01.699 --> 00:42:03.579
 confidence in the mere, simple

00:42:03.579 --> 00:42:05.719
 preaching of the gospel to effect

00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:07.279
 big political change,

00:42:08.059 --> 00:42:10.659
 at grassroots level, they find that

00:42:10.659 --> 00:42:13.059
 preaching of the gospel, people are

00:42:13.059 --> 00:42:14.879
 using it as an excuse to do whatever

00:42:14.879 --> 00:42:15.559
 they want.

00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:18.359
 And Luther, of course, at that point,

00:42:18.699 --> 00:42:20.159
 puts together some catechisms.

00:42:20.839 --> 00:42:22.279
 We've got to start getting people

00:42:22.279 --> 00:42:23.759
 taught properly.

00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:25.900
 We've got to realize that it isn't

00:42:25.900 --> 00:42:27.620
 just enough to preach the gospel.

00:42:27.860 --> 00:42:29.180
 The law has to be preached

00:42:29.180 --> 00:42:31.340
 appropriately as well.

00:42:31.660 --> 00:42:33.020
 And that's why I say, you know, in

00:42:33.020 --> 00:42:35.180
 the debates about Luther and holiness

00:42:35.180 --> 00:42:37.720
 and justification, you've got to take

00:42:37.720 --> 00:42:39.580
 the later Luther into account as well.

00:42:40.200 --> 00:42:41.900
 The Reformation is a work in progress.

00:42:42.040 --> 00:42:44.200
 These men are opening up new

00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:46.120
 theological territory, which will

00:42:46.120 --> 00:42:48.560
 generate its own new problems and

00:42:48.560 --> 00:42:49.940
 require a response.

00:42:51.340 --> 00:42:53.220
 An example, perhaps closer to home for

00:42:53.219 --> 00:42:54.959
 us is the Westminster Assembly's

00:42:54.959 --> 00:42:56.359
 teaching on assurance of faith.

00:42:56.839 --> 00:42:58.799
 Some people get worried that Calvin

00:42:58.799 --> 00:43:01.579
 seems to identify faith and

00:43:01.579 --> 00:43:03.359
 assurance by the time you get to

00:43:03.359 --> 00:43:04.519
 Westminster, so they're making a

00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:06.319
 distinction that one can have true

00:43:06.319 --> 00:43:08.279
 faith but not be assured for

00:43:08.279 --> 00:43:08.959
 periods of time.

00:43:09.059 --> 00:43:10.059
 People say, this is disturbing.

00:43:10.379 --> 00:43:12.439
 Maybe it's a retrogression to late

00:43:12.439 --> 00:43:13.379
 medieval Catholicism.

00:43:13.459 --> 00:43:14.119
 I think, no.

00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:18.279
 It's the result of a hundred years of

00:43:18.279 --> 00:43:20.000
 pastoral reflection like that

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.000
 Protestant preaching does in the pew.

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:26.380
 These men are aware that it's not quite

00:43:26.380 --> 00:43:28.940
 as simple as the first generation of

00:43:28.940 --> 00:43:30.099
 reformers thought it was.

00:43:30.619 --> 00:43:32.039
 And that's not a criticism of the

00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:33.380
 first generation of reformers.

00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:35.739
 They're doing something new and they

00:43:35.739 --> 00:43:38.460
 don't know what the long-term impact

00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:39.440
 of it's going to be.

00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:41.659
 They're not going to see their imbalances

00:43:41.659 --> 00:43:44.139
 until they've worked out someone.

00:43:44.139 --> 00:43:47.519
 So by the time we get to the 1530s,

00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:50.480
 Luther is really, I think, beginning to

00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.859
 think, it's not enough just to preach

00:43:53.859 --> 00:43:54.359
 the gospel.

00:43:55.239 --> 00:43:56.239
 It's not enough.

00:43:56.859 --> 00:43:59.719
 We need to give ethical guidelines for

00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:00.179
 behaviour.

00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:05.920
 We need to think about structure in the

00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:06.379
 church.

00:44:06.380 --> 00:44:08.440
 And that leads me, and this will be a

00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:10.920
 fairly brief summary now, to the

00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:13.700
 Treatise of 1538-1539 on the councils

00:44:13.700 --> 00:44:14.579
 of the church.

00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:18.180
 Luther, like all reformers, has to

00:44:18.180 --> 00:44:19.800
 wrestle with what is the identity of

00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:20.140
 the church.

00:44:20.220 --> 00:44:22.360
 Once you've got rid of what we call

00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:24.760
 sacramental apostolic succession,

00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:28.240
 how do you identify the true church?

00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:30.099
 Where do you look around and find the

00:44:30.099 --> 00:44:30.700
 true church?

00:44:30.699 --> 00:44:34.279
 And Luther comes up with seven marks.

00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:37.379
 And there's just one or two of them

00:44:37.379 --> 00:44:38.619
 that I want to sort of zero in on.

00:44:39.099 --> 00:44:40.659
 The most fundamental mark for Luther,

00:44:40.759 --> 00:44:42.599
 as it was for all reformers, was the

00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:43.039
 word.

00:44:44.399 --> 00:44:46.799
 The apostolicity of the church was

00:44:46.799 --> 00:44:49.419
 established by the conformity of the

00:44:49.419 --> 00:44:51.519
 teaching of the church with apostolic

00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:51.919
 teaching.

00:44:52.879 --> 00:44:54.719
 So when the reformers confessed their

00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:56.480
 belief in one holy catholic and

00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:59.199
 apostolic church, they were not thinking

00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:02.379
 of a succession of laying on of hands

00:45:02.379 --> 00:45:04.319
 that somehow gets traced back to Peter

00:45:04.319 --> 00:45:05.299
 in the first century.

00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.619
 They were thinking of those who taught

00:45:08.619 --> 00:45:11.619
 as those before them had taught, going

00:45:11.619 --> 00:45:13.379
 all the way back to the apostles.

00:45:13.779 --> 00:45:15.419
 And the word remains the most fundamental

00:45:15.419 --> 00:45:17.119
 mark of the church for Protestantism.

00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:19.299
 There can be no sacramental practice

00:45:19.299 --> 00:45:20.599
 without a preaching of the word.

00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:25.239
 It's why, it doesn't work here, it

00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:27.039
 doesn't work in my church, but if you're

00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:28.960
 in a church that was really designed,

00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:30.579
 properly, if I could put it that way,

00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:32.780
 you have the pulpit and then you have

00:45:32.780 --> 00:45:33.940
 the table underneath it.

00:45:34.740 --> 00:45:37.280
 Making a clear point, a symbolic point,

00:45:37.340 --> 00:45:40.659
 if you like, that the pulpit, the word,

00:45:41.300 --> 00:45:42.760
 stands above the sacraments.

00:45:42.980 --> 00:45:44.340
 Sacraments are important, they're there

00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:46.079
 at the front, but they're clearly

00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:47.800
 subordinated to the word.

00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:49.900
 Such that one cannot practice the

00:45:49.900 --> 00:45:52.119
 sacraments without first preaching

00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:52.980
 the word.

00:45:53.099 --> 00:45:55.039
 The sacramental significance is grasped

00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:57.500
 by faith and that requires the preaching

00:45:57.500 --> 00:45:58.579
 of the word.

00:45:58.780 --> 00:46:00.320
 Just as an aside, I read a great book

00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:02.320
 recently called When Church Became

00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:02.820
 Theatre.

00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:05.519
 Not really into architecture, but this

00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:07.699
 book is a study of American church

00:46:07.699 --> 00:46:09.340
 architecture in the 19th century.

00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:12.420
 And how the Second Great Awakening

00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:14.340
 really led people to start designing

00:46:14.340 --> 00:46:16.099
 churches that were like theatres.

00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.840
 And it opened my eyes, so yes, churches

00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.159
 today, they design like sort of conference

00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:23.440
 halls and rock concert arenas.

00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:24.880
 And that's not incidental.

00:46:25.740 --> 00:46:27.760
 And it says something about how one

00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:29.619
 visualises the church.

00:46:29.700 --> 00:46:31.760
 In the Reformation, St. Giles Cathedral,

00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.260
 Edinburgh, I suspect the word is not as

00:46:34.260 --> 00:46:36.139
 central at St. Giles these days as it

00:46:36.139 --> 00:46:36.579
 should be.

00:46:36.980 --> 00:46:38.480
 Some of you will have more direct

00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:39.880
 experience of that, I'm sure.

00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:42.260
 But one of the great things is you go in

00:46:42.260 --> 00:46:44.240
 there and all roads lead to the pulpit.

00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.240
 The pulpit's in the centre, at least

00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:48.240
 geographically, if not metaphysically,

00:46:48.579 --> 00:46:49.099
 anymore.

00:46:49.099 --> 00:46:50.980
 The word is central.

00:46:51.739 --> 00:46:53.839
 Baptism too, the initiation rite,

00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:55.639
 that has to be there as a mark of the

00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:55.960
 church.

00:46:56.299 --> 00:46:58.219
 The Lord's Supper for Luther.

00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:02.559
 The office of the keys.

00:47:03.839 --> 00:47:05.339
 It's a church discipline.

00:47:06.860 --> 00:47:08.239
 Luther says that's one of the seven

00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:09.799
 non-negotiables of the church.

00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:13.259
 The office of the keys is there.

00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.380
 And then he comes to something that

00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:18.800
 really one would not find in the early

00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:19.180
 Luther.

00:47:20.019 --> 00:47:21.960
 And I think it shows how his thinking

00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:22.539
 has shifted.

00:47:23.640 --> 00:47:26.220
 The calling and ordination of ministers.

00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:30.800
 It's interesting in 1520 when Luther

00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:32.140
 sort of asks, you know, why do we,

00:47:32.539 --> 00:47:36.420
 why do we have a, you know, minister?

00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.980
 Luther's sort of shoulder shrugging.

00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:41.360
 Well, you know, if we didn't have one

00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.300
 guy to do it, it would just be total chaos.

00:47:43.300 --> 00:47:46.640
 It's a pure, pragmatic, practical move.

00:47:48.220 --> 00:47:51.080
 By 1539, he's saying,

00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.160
 ordination, you've got to make sure that

00:47:54.160 --> 00:47:57.060
 the right, competent men are set aside

00:47:57.060 --> 00:47:58.340
 to do the task.

00:47:59.200 --> 00:48:00.860
 If you like, go back to my first lecture

00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:01.360
 yesterday.

00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:05.780
 Luther is grasping that point that Paul is

00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:07.180
 making in the pastoral epistles.

00:48:07.420 --> 00:48:09.920
 Paul doesn't say to Timothy, oh, just read

00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:11.940
 the Bible on a Sunday and keep preaching it

00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:13.320
 and everything will be okay.

00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:15.079
 He doesn't say that.

00:48:15.720 --> 00:48:18.019
 He says, appoint men.

00:48:18.680 --> 00:48:20.340
 You know, make sure the right men are in

00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:21.500
 charge and run in the show.

00:48:22.340 --> 00:48:24.099
 That's where Luther is in 1539.

00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.240
 Luther's starting to think very structurally

00:48:27.240 --> 00:48:29.200
 about the church at this point.

00:48:29.740 --> 00:48:31.700
 Even though Protestantism roots its

00:48:31.700 --> 00:48:33.760
 authority ultimately in the word of God.

00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:36.360
 That does not mean, you know, the

00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:38.200
 sufficiency of scripture does not mean

00:48:38.200 --> 00:48:40.420
 if you like, that scripture is sufficient

00:48:40.420 --> 00:48:41.800
 for all things.

00:48:42.460 --> 00:48:44.500
 You still need a structure.

00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.420
 Then, of course, he improves on Mark

00:48:47.420 --> 00:48:49.480
 Deva by saying that prayer, praise and

00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:52.000
 thanksgiving are an important mark of

00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:52.400
 the church.

00:48:52.600 --> 00:48:53.780
 By the way, I have to say, I'm not saying

00:48:53.780 --> 00:48:55.160
 anything here that I haven't said to

00:48:55.160 --> 00:48:57.260
 Mark's face and wound him up and down.

00:48:57.580 --> 00:48:58.900
 He refuses to back down.

00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:00.480
 He gave me some waffle about it.

00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:01.500
 Well, of course, I didn't mean that they

00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:03.540
 were the only nine marks of the church.

00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:04.679
 They were just the ones I wanted to

00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:05.639
 focus on.

00:49:05.980 --> 00:49:07.059
 I was like, yeah, yeah.

00:49:07.179 --> 00:49:08.619
 If that helps you sleep at night.

00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:12.860
 And then finally, the cross.

00:49:13.539 --> 00:49:14.940
 And I think this is where Luther is

00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:16.679
 most magnificent in some ways.

00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:20.420
 The church, the true church, will suffer.

00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:24.719
 And that, I think, is a very useful

00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:27.179
 lesson for us today.

00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:29.579
 I know that religious freedom plays

00:49:29.579 --> 00:49:31.900
 out differently in the United States

00:49:31.900 --> 00:49:32.559
 than it does here.

00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:34.639
 But everybody, I think, in the West

00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:36.920
 is starting to feel the cold blast of

00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:40.480
 legal changes that are beginning to

00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:41.460
 squeeze the church.

00:49:41.619 --> 00:49:43.539
 I read something recently in America

00:49:43.539 --> 00:49:44.500
 about somebody saying, you know,

00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:47.079
 freedom of speech is not really an

00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:48.039
 absolute right.

00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:50.440
 That's kind of interesting.

00:49:50.699 --> 00:49:52.779
 I've seen law shifting where freedom

00:49:52.779 --> 00:49:54.199
 of religion is becoming to be understood

00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:56.119
 as, well, the freedom to own your own

00:49:56.119 --> 00:49:58.059
 building and do what you want within the

00:49:58.059 --> 00:49:59.559
 bounds of your building and not

00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:00.440
 anywhere else.

00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:02.779
 My church last year did, we did an

00:50:02.779 --> 00:50:05.079
 outreach in a park, a local park,

00:50:05.139 --> 00:50:06.079
 and we got permission to do it.

00:50:06.099 --> 00:50:07.400
 It was a pretty low-key and offensive

00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:07.699
 thing.

00:50:07.779 --> 00:50:09.000
 I just read The Lion, the Witch and the

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:10.900
 Wardrobe, and we handed out tracts

00:50:10.900 --> 00:50:12.340
 afterwards, and I got a note from the

00:50:12.340 --> 00:50:14.639
 church secretary yesterday saying that

00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.460
 we contacted the township for permission

00:50:16.460 --> 00:50:17.000
 to do it this year.

00:50:17.079 --> 00:50:18.059
 We got a letter back from the township

00:50:18.059 --> 00:50:20.340
 saying that they'll be in touch with us

00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:21.340
 in a couple of weeks because they're

00:50:21.340 --> 00:50:24.559
 reviewing and revising their policy on

00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:26.059
 the use of public parks.

00:50:26.579 --> 00:50:28.059
 You know, you can just guess the way

00:50:28.059 --> 00:50:29.440
 that's going down.

00:50:29.900 --> 00:50:31.579
 That's not much suffering, of course,

00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:33.599
 compared to what Luther said.

00:50:33.699 --> 00:50:35.320
 But for Luther, the final mark of the

00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:36.699
 church is the cross.

00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:40.400
 Not only is the cross of Christ, if you

00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:42.500
 like, the axiom on which theology is

00:50:42.500 --> 00:50:44.900
 built for Luther, not only is it the

00:50:44.900 --> 00:50:47.739
 critical thing that all theology has to

00:50:47.739 --> 00:50:50.400
 be refracted through the cross, that has

00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:52.820
 a practical experiential aspect as well.

00:50:52.820 --> 00:50:54.980
 If you're doing theology right, if you're

00:50:54.980 --> 00:50:57.460
 doing church right, then one can expect

00:50:57.460 --> 00:51:01.360
 to suffer for it, for that cross-shaped

00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:05.140
 theology to manifest itself in the life,

00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:07.820
 not only of individual believers, but also

00:51:07.820 --> 00:51:09.700
 of the church as a whole.

00:51:10.500 --> 00:51:13.300
 So that then is a brief trolley bus tour,

00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:15.820
 if you like, of Luther's thinking on the

00:51:15.820 --> 00:51:18.980
 church, and the main point is, Luther in

00:51:18.980 --> 00:51:21.280
 some ways is a bit like a sort of modern,

00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.560
 non-ecclesiastical, evangelical in his

00:51:23.560 --> 00:51:24.200
 early days.

00:51:24.380 --> 00:51:26.140
 All we've got to do is preach the gospel,

00:51:26.620 --> 00:51:28.060
 and everything will fall into place.

00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.320
 By 1539, no, no.

00:51:30.940 --> 00:51:32.940
 Actually, we need to prepare.

00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:36.440
 Think of Thomas Chalmers, you know, from

00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:38.940
 1530 onwards, what's Thomas Chalmers doing

00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:39.420
 in Scotland?

00:51:39.740 --> 00:51:40.680
 He's preparing.

00:51:41.540 --> 00:51:43.460
 Preparation, preparation, preparation.

00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:45.780
 Organization, organization, organization.

00:51:45.780 --> 00:51:49.580
 We need to remember as a church, as churches,

00:51:50.100 --> 00:51:53.160
 it's not just, it isn't even primarily

00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:55.300
 those who preach the gospel who win, if

00:51:55.300 --> 00:51:57.720
 you like, it's those who preach the gospel

00:51:57.720 --> 00:51:59.480
 and organize effectively.

00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:03.280
 Lesson Luther learned the hard way.

00:52:03.620 --> 00:52:06.540
 Brings me up to time, I'll throw it open for

00:52:06.540 --> 00:52:08.420
 questions, comments, pushback.

00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:09.940
 Anything else you want me to say about

00:52:09.940 --> 00:52:10.240
 Luther?

00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.879
 I know the answer, I'll try to give it.

00:52:15.579 --> 00:52:17.519
 Thank you very much, Kyra, for that.

00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:18.159
 Any questions?

00:52:21.959 --> 00:52:22.359
 Mark?

00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:24.039
 I wrote it back.

00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:26.079
 And, Kyra, that last one, I'm very interested.

00:52:27.759 --> 00:52:29.679
 When you all think the difficulty between

00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.179
 Luther and the reform, it's that the reform

00:52:32.179 --> 00:52:34.000
 wants you to reform everything out of the world.

00:52:34.139 --> 00:52:36.139
 Luther needs to distract us from the church,

00:52:36.279 --> 00:52:37.339
 because we sort that out ourselves.

00:52:37.340 --> 00:52:40.039
 Can you expand on why that is?

00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:41.519
 If Luther started to think this,

00:52:42.220 --> 00:52:44.519
 why does the Lutheran Reformation so

00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:45.880
 so different from the ancient

00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:47.519
 of the church?

00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:50.180
 Wow, that's, the question,

00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:51.980
 everybody's probably heard it, because

00:52:51.980 --> 00:52:53.579
 you're all closer to Matthew than I am,

00:52:53.600 --> 00:52:54.940
 but the question is, why does the

00:52:54.940 --> 00:52:56.360
 Lutheran Reformation look very different

00:52:56.360 --> 00:52:58.100
 to the reformed Reformation?

00:52:58.680 --> 00:53:00.059
 You know, there are a whole host of

00:53:00.059 --> 00:53:00.840
 reasons for that.

00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:03.059
 One reason is to do with the

00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:04.000
 personality of Luther.

00:53:04.579 --> 00:53:05.980
 I don't think there's anybody in the

00:53:05.980 --> 00:53:08.219
 reformed Reformation who has quite the

00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:10.780
 dominant influence that Luther has.

00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:13.199
 So, for example, there's no doubt in my mind

00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:16.400
 that the Lord's Supper issue is a huge issue,

00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:18.800
 initially at least, because of Luther's

00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:19.460
 autobiography.

00:53:19.900 --> 00:53:21.780
 So much of his own development is wrapped up

00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:22.559
 with the Lord's Supper.

00:53:23.139 --> 00:53:25.159
 So much of his reaction to Zwingli is

00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:26.940
 determined by the fact that he's heard

00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:30.159
 these views before, in 1522, from Karstadt.

00:53:30.300 --> 00:53:32.900
 And Karstadt was a rioting lunatic.

00:53:32.900 --> 00:53:37.160
 And Zwingli may look polite, but it's like

00:53:37.160 --> 00:53:39.119
 Sinn Féin IRA, if you like.

00:53:39.200 --> 00:53:42.139
 Everybody knows it's the same guys, basically.

00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:45.920
 Zwingli looks polite, but man, he's

00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.119
 undermining the basis of the church and of

00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:48.559
 society.

00:53:48.700 --> 00:53:51.000
 So there's a strong personal impact.

00:53:51.579 --> 00:53:53.760
 There's also a very different political

00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:54.500
 context.

00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.579
 Luther's operating in really a, what is

00:53:57.579 --> 00:53:59.840
 essentially a slowly modernizing, but

00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:02.180
 basically medieval, feudal environment.

00:54:02.179 --> 00:54:05.119
 Zwingli and the Reformed are by and large

00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.599
 operating in cities, where there's a

00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:09.460
 certain level of popular representation

00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:12.299
 within towns, where it's more feasible

00:54:12.299 --> 00:54:16.539
 in some ways for preachers to have a much

00:54:16.539 --> 00:54:20.319
 more profound and transformative impact

00:54:20.319 --> 00:54:21.960
 on the culture around them.

00:54:22.299 --> 00:54:23.699
 So that's an aspect to it.

00:54:24.899 --> 00:54:27.079
 I think Luther doesn't, you know, with the

00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:29.059
 exception of Luther, most of the other

00:54:29.059 --> 00:54:30.859
 Reformers come from a background in

00:54:30.860 --> 00:54:31.880
 Renaissance Humanism.

00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:35.280
 And Renaissance Humanism is a program of

00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.280
 cultural change.

00:54:37.120 --> 00:54:39.460
 And people like Zwingli become Reformers, I

00:54:39.460 --> 00:54:41.360
 think, because they realize that the

00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:43.579
 cultural change they want to achieve is

00:54:43.579 --> 00:54:45.960
 not possible simply on the basis of what

00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:47.000
 Erasmus has taught them.

00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:48.340
 They need something more radical.

00:54:49.200 --> 00:54:50.420
 Luther is a medieval man.

00:54:50.640 --> 00:54:52.340
 He's a man of the monastic cloister.

00:54:52.340 --> 00:54:57.760
 He doesn't have this vision of cultural change

00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:01.240
 that Zwingli and even Calvin bring to their

00:55:01.240 --> 00:55:01.660
 ministries.

00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:04.180
 So there's a whole variety of reasons why

00:55:04.180 --> 00:55:07.539
 Lutheranism and the Reformed look different

00:55:07.539 --> 00:55:09.380
 in the 16th, 17th century.

00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:10.940
 Is that what you're getting at?

00:55:10.940 --> 00:55:12.960
 Yeah, so it's technically the only issue of

00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:14.059
 church structures, exactly.

00:55:14.780 --> 00:55:15.740
 Okay, yeah.

00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:18.599
 If Luther starts to realize that church structures

00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.740
 need to be placed in order to preserve or

00:55:21.740 --> 00:55:23.940
 to enable Reformation to be able to take.

00:55:25.659 --> 00:55:28.200
 I guess my question is, when does it get

00:55:28.200 --> 00:55:29.420
 the end of the position of thinking, well,

00:55:29.460 --> 00:55:31.340
 then we need to reform church structures

00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:33.019
 for it to work, so in the same way as we

00:55:33.019 --> 00:55:33.880
 reformed after it to work.

00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:36.420
 I think that then you come to the difference,

00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:39.640
 the different ethos in the Lutheran.

00:55:39.660 --> 00:55:42.220
 The Lutheran Reformation is much less

00:55:42.220 --> 00:55:45.280
 iconoclastic in all senses of the word

00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:46.800
 than the Reformed regime.

00:55:47.119 --> 00:55:49.640
 A great example would be that there's a

00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:51.640
 strong conservative temper to Luther's

00:55:51.640 --> 00:55:52.059
 Reformation.

00:55:52.220 --> 00:55:53.700
 A good example would be the debates over

00:55:53.700 --> 00:55:55.900
 the catechisms in the 15th century.

00:55:55.980 --> 00:55:57.640
 The debate goes on in Lutheranism about,

00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:00.420
 you know, should we still call the mass

00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:01.099
 the mass?

00:56:01.099 --> 00:56:03.900
 Or should we use different terminology?

00:56:04.659 --> 00:56:06.259
 And it's a great debate because it's one

00:56:06.259 --> 00:56:07.639
 of those discussions where you think,

00:56:07.699 --> 00:56:09.279
 well, both sides have got good arguments.

00:56:09.900 --> 00:56:12.019
 And it's not obvious whether one is right

00:56:12.019 --> 00:56:12.880
 and the other is wrong.

00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:15.259
 One side of the Lutheran church wants to say,

00:56:15.319 --> 00:56:17.099
 you know, we have a new radical theology.

00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:20.599
 We need a new vocabulary to express it.

00:56:21.860 --> 00:56:23.599
 Luther is more on the side of, you know,

00:56:24.420 --> 00:56:26.480
 we're disturbing people by what we're doing.

00:56:27.139 --> 00:56:28.559
 The big change in the church,

00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:30.119
 things coming into the vernacular,

00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:33.279
 the shifts in the liturgical action

00:56:33.279 --> 00:56:33.900
 of the mass.

00:56:34.099 --> 00:56:36.219
 This is very disturbing for ordinary people.

00:56:36.839 --> 00:56:38.339
 So we should keep in place

00:56:38.339 --> 00:56:40.480
 as much as we possibly can

00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:41.400
 from the old regime.

00:56:41.559 --> 00:56:42.799
 So people are minimally disturbed.

00:56:42.859 --> 00:56:43.559
 What we do, if you like,

00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:45.319
 is we subvert the old forms.

00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:46.619
 We don't get rid of them.

00:56:47.359 --> 00:56:49.179
 And that, I think, speaks to a conservative

00:56:49.179 --> 00:56:51.059
 temper in Luther.

00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:53.699
 Where, when it comes to church structures,

00:56:53.759 --> 00:56:55.799
 you see this a bit in the Anglican

00:56:55.799 --> 00:56:56.880
 Reformation as well.

00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:00.119
 Now, we don't see the details

00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:01.800
 of church government in the New Testament,

00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:03.780
 so we will adopt, adapt,

00:57:03.980 --> 00:57:05.220
 transform the structures

00:57:05.220 --> 00:57:06.380
 that we already have.

00:57:06.740 --> 00:57:07.820
 Because the structures,

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:08.800
 they're not bad.

00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:10.420
 We just need to make sure

00:57:10.420 --> 00:57:11.840
 it's the right way of manning them.

00:57:12.579 --> 00:57:14.539
 So, and underlying that, of course,

00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:15.180
 ultimately, I think,

00:57:15.200 --> 00:57:16.519
 is a different view of

00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:18.980
 what we call the regulative principle,

00:57:19.140 --> 00:57:19.539
 I suppose.

00:57:20.220 --> 00:57:23.079
 A different view of how and what

00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:25.519
 scripture can and must regulate.

00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:27.440
 So the Lutheran Reformation

00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:28.579
 is much more conservative.

00:57:29.059 --> 00:57:30.400
 You go to Sweden and wander into

00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:31.599
 a Lutheran church in Sweden,

00:57:32.259 --> 00:57:34.059
 it could look more ornate

00:57:34.059 --> 00:57:35.440
 than the Catholic church

00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:36.079
 in this country.

00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:38.219
 You know, they didn't get rid of images.

00:57:38.420 --> 00:57:39.559
 They didn't get rid of

00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:41.480
 the guilt-edged stuff.

00:57:41.860 --> 00:57:43.019
 It's all retained.

00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:44.400
 Luther had this strong,

00:57:44.539 --> 00:57:45.900
 conservative element.

00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:48.860
 He was in great fear of unrest,

00:57:49.219 --> 00:57:50.679
 rioting, out-of-control,

00:57:50.819 --> 00:57:51.539
 popular opinion.

00:57:51.539 --> 00:57:53.860
 Does that?

00:57:54.099 --> 00:57:54.239
 Yeah.

00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:54.900
 Okay.

00:57:55.579 --> 00:57:56.279
 So you heard it here,

00:57:56.380 --> 00:57:57.420
 first, Swingley was a member

00:57:57.420 --> 00:57:57.980
 of the IRA.

00:58:01.940 --> 00:58:04.980
 Any other questions?

00:58:05.099 --> 00:58:05.279
 David.

00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:08.699
 It's not very clear on Luther,

00:58:08.840 --> 00:58:09.940
 but your side-point

00:58:09.940 --> 00:58:10.739
 about assurance

00:58:10.739 --> 00:58:11.960
 in Westminster.

00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:13.179
 A way that you

00:58:13.179 --> 00:58:15.139
 explained that

00:58:15.139 --> 00:58:15.980
 in terms of

00:58:15.980 --> 00:58:17.360
 the divides were

00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:18.219
 effectively coming

00:58:18.219 --> 00:58:18.860
 in terms of

00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:20.300
 a hundred years

00:58:20.300 --> 00:58:21.079
 or Protestant

00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:21.679
 and the speech.

00:58:21.900 --> 00:58:22.059
 Yeah.

00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:23.420
 Do you think,

00:58:23.739 --> 00:58:24.840
 I couldn't tell from the way,

00:58:24.940 --> 00:58:25.420
 but do you think

00:58:25.420 --> 00:58:25.960
 there is actually

00:58:25.960 --> 00:58:26.759
 a difference between

00:58:26.759 --> 00:58:27.539
 those Calvin and

00:58:27.539 --> 00:58:29.699
 whether assurances

00:58:29.699 --> 00:58:30.659
 of the essence

00:58:30.659 --> 00:58:32.019
 of faith or...

00:58:32.019 --> 00:58:33.380
 That's a really good question

00:58:33.380 --> 00:58:34.920
 and I don't think

00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:35.699
 there's any consensus

00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:36.299
 on this.

00:58:37.059 --> 00:58:37.719
 I would say

00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:38.420
 there's a difference

00:58:38.420 --> 00:58:39.400
 in degree,

00:58:39.579 --> 00:58:40.400
 not in kind.

00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:41.480
 I think if you look

00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:42.500
 at Calvin's sermons,

00:58:42.799 --> 00:58:43.340
 I mean, you'll know

00:58:43.340 --> 00:58:44.139
 this better than I do,

00:58:44.139 --> 00:58:45.380
 if you look at Calvin's sermons,

00:58:45.380 --> 00:58:47.800
 you find a more nuanced

00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:49.480
 view of faith

00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:50.200
 than you do

00:58:50.200 --> 00:58:50.780
 if you just read

00:58:50.780 --> 00:58:51.440
 the Institutes

00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:52.760
 and some of the commentaries.

00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:54.119
 So I would say

00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:57.099
 Calvin's statements

00:58:57.099 --> 00:58:58.940
 on faith assurance,

00:58:59.099 --> 00:58:59.700
 certain knowledge,

00:58:59.820 --> 00:59:00.720
 etc., etc.,

00:59:00.720 --> 00:59:02.300
 set in the context

00:59:02.300 --> 00:59:03.019
 of Calvin's

00:59:03.019 --> 00:59:04.240
 whole pastoral ministry

00:59:04.240 --> 00:59:06.099
 are not his last word

00:59:06.099 --> 00:59:06.360
 on it.

00:59:06.420 --> 00:59:07.140
 His own position

00:59:07.140 --> 00:59:07.980
 is more nuanced.

00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:10.019
 And then I think

00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:10.519
 you're getting down

00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:11.300
 to debates of,

00:59:11.300 --> 00:59:11.640
 well,

00:59:12.200 --> 00:59:13.760
 are the Westminster Divines

00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:15.080
 more open to lack

00:59:15.080 --> 00:59:15.580
 of assurance

00:59:15.580 --> 00:59:16.500
 on the whole

00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:17.280
 than Calvin is?

00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:18.620
 Is it more exceptional

00:59:18.620 --> 00:59:19.300
 for Calvin?

00:59:19.820 --> 00:59:21.260
 But I myself would say

00:59:21.260 --> 00:59:22.600
 part of the problem

00:59:22.600 --> 00:59:23.820
 is guys who write

00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:24.519
 books on Calvin

00:59:24.519 --> 00:59:24.980
 and all they do

00:59:24.980 --> 00:59:25.820
 is read the Institutes

00:59:25.820 --> 00:59:26.700
 and essentially present

00:59:26.700 --> 00:59:28.300
 with the Institutes

00:59:28.300 --> 00:59:29.120
 as Calvin's

00:59:29.120 --> 00:59:30.019
 complete theology,

00:59:30.200 --> 00:59:31.060
 which emphatically

00:59:31.060 --> 00:59:31.580
 is not.

00:59:31.660 --> 00:59:31.780
 I mean,

00:59:31.780 --> 00:59:32.039
 the Institutes

00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:32.920
 is very important,

00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:34.480
 but his preaching,

00:59:34.640 --> 00:59:35.260
 his commentaries,

00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:35.900
 his letters,

00:59:36.100 --> 00:59:36.640
 his tracts,

00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:37.680
 all I think

00:59:37.680 --> 00:59:38.260
 have to be taken

00:59:38.260 --> 00:59:38.840
 into account

00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:40.160
 in order to understand

00:59:40.160 --> 00:59:40.900
 how he saw

00:59:40.900 --> 00:59:41.700
 Protestant preaching

00:59:41.700 --> 00:59:43.820
 impacting the laity.

00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:44.480
 You know,

00:59:44.619 --> 00:59:45.220
 Rene of France,

00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:45.940
 his correspondence

00:59:45.940 --> 00:59:46.980
 with Rene of France,

00:59:47.180 --> 00:59:48.460
 this poor lady

00:59:48.460 --> 00:59:49.400
 who's swinging backwards

00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:49.900
 and forwards

00:59:49.900 --> 00:59:50.820
 between Catholicism

00:59:50.820 --> 00:59:51.539
 and Protestantism

00:59:51.539 --> 00:59:53.019
 because of the persecution

00:59:53.019 --> 00:59:54.099
 that her husband

00:59:54.099 --> 00:59:55.139
 is heaping on her.

00:59:55.780 --> 00:59:56.579
 I'd want to look

00:59:56.579 --> 00:59:57.360
 at that correspondence

00:59:57.360 --> 00:59:58.019
 and take that

00:59:58.019 --> 00:59:58.680
 into account.

00:59:58.680 --> 00:59:59.000
 So,

00:59:59.619 --> 01:00:00.420
 it was a sweeping

01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:01.500
 aside.

01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:02.860
 I think the situation

01:00:02.860 --> 01:00:03.720
 is more nuanced.

01:00:03.800 --> 01:00:04.280
 Would you agree?

01:00:04.420 --> 01:00:04.559
 I mean,

01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:05.119
 you know Calvin

01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:05.860
 better than I do.

01:00:05.980 --> 01:00:06.160
 Well,

01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:06.800
 yes,

01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:08.260
 I don't actually think

01:00:08.260 --> 01:00:08.900
 there is a divide

01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:09.300
 between the

01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:09.980
 but it's just a way

01:00:09.980 --> 01:00:10.559
 that you put it

01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:11.139
 in terms of

01:00:11.139 --> 01:00:12.279
 the rest of it.

01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:12.860
 Yeah.

01:00:13.079 --> 01:00:13.400
 Yeah.

01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:17.360
 It was more a swipe

01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:17.960
 at the scholars

01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:19.199
 who don't take

01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:19.759
 into account

01:00:19.759 --> 01:00:20.400
 the concrete

01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:22.000
 pastoral context

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:22.719
 in which this stuff

01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:23.559
 is being worked out

01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:24.099
 than it was

01:00:24.099 --> 01:00:25.219
 a definitive statement

01:00:25.219 --> 01:00:25.759
 on Calvin.

01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:28.639
 I wondered

01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:29.299
 if you could just

01:00:29.299 --> 01:00:29.960
 clarify

01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:31.440
 the swing

01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:32.539
 of Luther

01:00:32.539 --> 01:00:33.039
 from

01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:34.880
 philo-semitism

01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:36.320
 to anti-semitism.

01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:37.559
 It didn't seem

01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:38.699
 to me convincing

01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:40.279
 to have an explanation

01:00:40.279 --> 01:00:41.319
 that it was just

01:00:41.319 --> 01:00:42.859
 the end of the world

01:00:42.859 --> 01:00:44.899
 didn't come

01:00:44.899 --> 01:00:45.319
 or something.

01:00:45.500 --> 01:00:46.000
 It's a bit of

01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:46.799
 blame for the Jews.

01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:47.339
 Well,

01:00:47.419 --> 01:00:48.480
 I think your problem

01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:48.879
 actually,

01:00:49.059 --> 01:00:49.179
 well,

01:00:49.239 --> 01:00:49.619
 first of all,

01:00:49.919 --> 01:00:50.679
 the language of

01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:52.000
 philo and anti-semitism

01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:53.159
 I think is problematic

01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:55.359
 because it's strongly racial.

01:00:56.199 --> 01:00:56.559
 And I am,

01:00:56.819 --> 01:00:57.319
 although I've been,

01:00:57.419 --> 01:00:58.239
 I read a book recently

01:00:58.239 --> 01:00:59.379
 that's making me

01:00:59.379 --> 01:01:00.919
 go back to this

01:01:00.919 --> 01:01:01.659
 and rethink it,

01:01:01.659 --> 01:01:04.319
 I'm pretty persuaded

01:01:04.319 --> 01:01:05.299
 that Luther's problem

01:01:05.299 --> 01:01:05.759
 with the Jews

01:01:05.759 --> 01:01:06.719
 is a religious one

01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:08.219
 not a racial one.

01:01:08.299 --> 01:01:08.639
 I'm not sure

01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:09.179
 that Luther really

01:01:09.179 --> 01:01:10.199
 has racial categories.

01:01:10.839 --> 01:01:11.679
 Compare Luther

01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:12.819
 to the Nuremberg laws

01:01:12.819 --> 01:01:13.819
 in Nazi Germany.

01:01:14.619 --> 01:01:15.799
 The Nuremberg laws

01:01:15.799 --> 01:01:16.460
 are very clear

01:01:16.460 --> 01:01:17.139
 that if you convert

01:01:17.139 --> 01:01:17.739
 to Christianity

01:01:17.739 --> 01:01:18.279
 it doesn't make

01:01:18.279 --> 01:01:18.859
 any difference

01:01:18.859 --> 01:01:19.639
 because the blood

01:01:19.639 --> 01:01:20.259
 is polluted.

01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:22.519
 I think for Luther

01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:23.279
 if a Jew converts

01:01:23.279 --> 01:01:23.940
 to Christianity

01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:25.480
 that's fine,

01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:25.819
 you know,

01:01:26.019 --> 01:01:27.039
 problem solved.

01:01:28.579 --> 01:01:29.440
 So there's a,

01:01:29.839 --> 01:01:30.859
 that's the first point

01:01:30.859 --> 01:01:31.299
 I would want to make.

01:01:31.300 --> 01:01:31.780
 Secondly,

01:01:31.940 --> 01:01:32.380
 I would say

01:01:32.380 --> 01:01:33.620
 we often come at

01:01:33.620 --> 01:01:34.740
 Luther 1543

01:01:34.740 --> 01:01:35.940
 from the wrong end.

01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:39.039
 It's not the treatise

01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:39.980
 of 1543

01:01:39.980 --> 01:01:41.120
 that's a surprise.

01:01:41.700 --> 01:01:42.940
 Everybody hates Jews

01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:43.220
 in the,

01:01:43.300 --> 01:01:43.519
 well,

01:01:43.640 --> 01:01:44.160
 not everybody,

01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:45.760
 most people hate Jews

01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:46.500
 in the 16th century.

01:01:46.580 --> 01:01:48.120
 There is a strong tradition

01:01:48.120 --> 01:01:49.480
 of anti-Jewish writing

01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:50.400
 in the late Middle Ages.

01:01:51.100 --> 01:01:52.700
 The 1543 treatise

01:01:52.700 --> 01:01:53.560
 that Luther writes

01:01:53.560 --> 01:01:55.480
 uses a lot of the clichés

01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:56.260
 of that tradition.

01:01:56.519 --> 01:01:57.300
 The blood libel,

01:01:57.420 --> 01:01:57.519
 you know,

01:01:57.539 --> 01:01:58.320
 the idea that Jews

01:01:58.320 --> 01:01:59.760
 are kidnapping Christian babies

01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:00.820
 and crucifying them.

01:02:00.820 --> 01:02:01.780
 That occurs.

01:02:01.900 --> 01:02:04.140
 So Luther's 1543 treatise

01:02:04.140 --> 01:02:05.260
 is very much part

01:02:05.260 --> 01:02:06.559
 of a much larger

01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:07.500
 and wider genre

01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:08.660
 of anti-Jewish writing.

01:02:08.740 --> 01:02:10.320
 He's jumping on the bandwagon.

01:02:10.700 --> 01:02:10.960
 Well,

01:02:11.200 --> 01:02:12.280
 he's part and parcel

01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:13.600
 of the cultural flow

01:02:13.600 --> 01:02:14.220
 of the times.

01:02:14.680 --> 01:02:15.820
 The problem for Luther

01:02:15.820 --> 01:02:16.240
 on the Jews

01:02:16.240 --> 01:02:17.240
 is 1523.

01:02:18.580 --> 01:02:19.300
 Why does he write

01:02:19.300 --> 01:02:20.640
 positively about the Jews

01:02:20.640 --> 01:02:21.660
 in 1523?

01:02:21.659 --> 01:02:23.039
 So the problem is not

01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:24.980
 why he's anti-Jewish

01:02:24.980 --> 01:02:25.879
 in 1543.

01:02:26.119 --> 01:02:27.359
 That's easy to explain.

01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:28.339
 That was the way

01:02:28.339 --> 01:02:29.219
 the culture was going.

01:02:29.579 --> 01:02:30.159
 The problem is,

01:02:31.019 --> 01:02:31.920
 why does he like

01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:33.279
 the Jews in 1523?

01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:34.239
 And that's where

01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:35.379
 the eschatological argument

01:02:35.379 --> 01:02:35.920
 comes in.

01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:37.019
 Because he expects

01:02:37.019 --> 01:02:37.859
 them to be converted

01:02:37.859 --> 01:02:38.739
 and the end of the world

01:02:38.739 --> 01:02:39.079
 to come.

01:02:39.779 --> 01:02:41.379
 And when that hope dies,

01:02:41.539 --> 01:02:42.759
 he reverts to time.

01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:45.560
 And then I would play

01:02:45.560 --> 01:02:46.960
 the classic historian's

01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:47.820
 ploy at this point.

01:02:48.540 --> 01:02:49.320
 That's speculation.

01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:51.180
 Give me a better

01:02:51.180 --> 01:02:52.300
 explanation for it

01:02:52.300 --> 01:02:53.000
 and I'll abandon it.

01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:53.700
 You know,

01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:55.000
 so that's...

01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:55.000


01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:57.000
 So that's...

01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:58.000
 So that's...

01:02:58.000 --> 01:02:58.320
 Calvin,

01:02:58.440 --> 01:02:58.720
 are you?

01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:00.720
 I've not looked at

01:03:00.720 --> 01:03:01.580
 Calvin on the Jews

01:03:01.580 --> 01:03:03.120
 enough to know.

01:03:03.260 --> 01:03:03.700
 But certainly,

01:03:03.820 --> 01:03:03.960
 you see,

01:03:04.020 --> 01:03:05.320
 Luther is a late medieval man.

01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:08.000
 Calvin is a trained humanist.

01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:09.980
 He's a man of the modern world,

01:03:10.060 --> 01:03:10.420
 we would say.

01:03:10.940 --> 01:03:12.380
 Luther's entire education

01:03:12.380 --> 01:03:14.119
 operates within the boundaries

01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:16.380
 of late medieval Catholicism,

01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:16.740
 really.

01:03:17.300 --> 01:03:17.579
 So,

01:03:18.039 --> 01:03:18.840
 I would say,

01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:20.500
 Luther is the exceptional

01:03:20.500 --> 01:03:21.360
 reformer for a number

01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:21.780
 of reasons,

01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:22.960
 not least the fact that

01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:24.740
 he doesn't like Erasmus.

01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:25.579
 There's little time

01:03:25.579 --> 01:03:26.039
 for Erasmus.

01:03:26.119 --> 01:03:26.960
 He's not really influenced

01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:27.579
 by Erasmus

01:03:27.579 --> 01:03:28.480
 beyond the text

01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:29.780
 of the Greek New Testament.

01:03:31.460 --> 01:03:32.400
 But I'd have to go

01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:33.119
 and look at...

01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:33.820
 Have you looked at

01:03:33.820 --> 01:03:34.500
 Calvin on the Jews

01:03:34.500 --> 01:03:35.059
 at all, David?

01:03:35.180 --> 01:03:35.820
 A little bit, yeah.

01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:38.019
 Calvin's much more...

01:03:38.019 --> 01:03:39.519
 It's easier to refer

01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:40.280
 to Calvin as being

01:03:40.280 --> 01:03:41.340
 anti-Jewish

01:03:41.340 --> 01:03:43.820
 rather than anti-Semitic.

01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:45.240
 So he has a much more

01:03:45.240 --> 01:03:47.140
 clearer theological position

01:03:47.140 --> 01:03:47.680
 of why,

01:03:50.260 --> 01:03:51.660
 particularly in Romans 9-11,

01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:54.340
 why the way that Paul reads

01:03:54.340 --> 01:03:56.100
 Old Testament Jews

01:03:56.100 --> 01:03:57.160
 is not believing the gospel

01:03:57.160 --> 01:03:58.760
 and so having Paul

01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:00.420
 in favor of Calvin

01:04:00.420 --> 01:04:01.079
 reads that

01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:02.280
 in a way that's

01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:03.780
 a lot more acceptable

01:04:03.780 --> 01:04:04.440
 because he doesn't seem

01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.980
 to slip into racist language.

01:04:07.300 --> 01:04:08.460
 Luther is a bombast.

01:04:08.600 --> 01:04:08.700
 I mean,

01:04:08.740 --> 01:04:10.500
 Luther is a powerful rhetorician

01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:11.840
 and it's both

01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:13.079
 his strength at times

01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:13.820
 and it completely

01:04:13.820 --> 01:04:14.800
 undoes him at others.

01:04:15.460 --> 01:04:16.239
 Peasants' war,

01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:17.679
 dreadful writings

01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:18.500
 against the peasants,

01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:19.599
 against the Jews.

01:04:19.980 --> 01:04:20.099
 You know,

01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:21.280
 we should lock them

01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:21.960
 in their synagogues

01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:23.380
 and burn their synagogues down.

01:04:24.059 --> 01:04:24.900
 That is A,

01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:26.239
 powerful rhetoric at the time

01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:26.659
 and B,

01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:28.280
 from a post-Holocaust perspective,

01:04:28.460 --> 01:04:28.980
 that's exactly

01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:30.019
 what was done in some...

01:04:30.019 --> 01:04:31.079
 It looks like a prophecy

01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:32.519
 or a policy.

01:04:32.900 --> 01:04:33.500
 But I think what Luther's...

01:04:34.019 --> 01:04:35.039
 Luther's just being Luther

01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:36.420
 and bombastic at that point.

01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:36.980
 He doesn't expect

01:04:36.980 --> 01:04:37.840
 anybody to do it.

01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:39.000
 Well,

01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:39.480
 unfortunately,

01:04:39.620 --> 01:04:40.500
 our words live

01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:42.160
 beyond the grave.

01:04:42.300 --> 01:04:43.160
 I'd go over

01:04:43.160 --> 01:04:44.079
 and argue

01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:46.039
 that the reform

01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:47.579
 come off better

01:04:47.579 --> 01:04:48.800
 from the...

01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:49.720
 And this is a question

01:04:49.720 --> 01:04:50.300
 because there are

01:04:50.300 --> 01:04:51.519
 the experience of much.

01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:53.320
 The Jewish experience

01:04:53.320 --> 01:04:55.200
 of dispersion

01:04:55.200 --> 01:04:55.740
 and exile

01:04:55.740 --> 01:04:56.440
 and that's a way

01:04:56.440 --> 01:04:57.940
 that was the reformer

01:04:57.940 --> 01:04:58.300
 of the person

01:04:58.300 --> 01:04:59.180
 who didn't fight them

01:04:59.180 --> 01:04:59.680
 so much.

01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:01.620
 I saw a conservative

01:05:01.620 --> 01:05:02.940
 and the Jews

01:05:02.940 --> 01:05:03.539
 in a way that

01:05:03.539 --> 01:05:04.720
 prevented them

01:05:04.720 --> 01:05:05.220
 from using

01:05:05.220 --> 01:05:06.240
 the language

01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:07.100
 of the Jews.

01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:09.480
 There is a superb book...

01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:09.640
 Sorry.

01:05:14.100 --> 01:05:15.220
 There's a superb book

01:05:15.220 --> 01:05:16.120
 just being published

01:05:16.120 --> 01:05:17.059
 maybe in the last year

01:05:17.059 --> 01:05:17.760
 by...

01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:18.280
 I think it's the Institute

01:05:18.280 --> 01:05:19.260
 for Holocaust Studies

01:05:19.260 --> 01:05:21.519
 in Washington.

01:05:22.180 --> 01:05:22.780
 I can't remember

01:05:22.780 --> 01:05:23.980
 the gentleman's name.

01:05:24.120 --> 01:05:25.140
 His father-in-law

01:05:25.140 --> 01:05:26.200
 is actually a Westminster grad

01:05:26.200 --> 01:05:27.039
 and the gentleman

01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:28.120
 is a...

01:05:28.120 --> 01:05:29.019
 The scholar who wrote it

01:05:29.019 --> 01:05:30.039
 is an RTS grad,

01:05:30.160 --> 01:05:31.300
 a Form Theological Seminary grad,

01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:32.059
 who did his PhD

01:05:32.059 --> 01:05:33.280
 I think at King's College London.

01:05:34.180 --> 01:05:34.900
 And it's called

01:05:34.900 --> 01:05:36.160
 Demonising the Jews.

01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:38.460
 And it's a fascinating study

01:05:38.460 --> 01:05:40.519
 of the use of Luther's writings

01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:42.379
 in Germany

01:05:42.379 --> 01:05:42.980
 between

01:05:42.980 --> 01:05:45.339
 1900 and 1945.

01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:47.279
 It's a fascinating study

01:05:47.279 --> 01:05:48.199
 of how Luther is appropriate.

01:05:48.319 --> 01:05:49.139
 I think you'd...

01:05:49.139 --> 01:05:50.099
 you would find

01:05:50.099 --> 01:05:51.379
 a more sophisticated treatment

01:05:51.379 --> 01:05:52.259
 of Luther and the Jews

01:05:52.259 --> 01:05:54.000
 there than I can give you now.

01:05:54.099 --> 01:05:54.559
 Thank you very much.

01:05:55.539 --> 01:05:56.099
 It's...

01:05:56.099 --> 01:05:56.839
 Send me an email

01:05:56.839 --> 01:05:58.159
 if you lose the title

01:05:58.159 --> 01:05:58.679
 or need to know

01:05:58.679 --> 01:05:59.259
 the name of the author.

01:05:59.379 --> 01:06:00.319
 I've got it on my bookshelf

01:06:00.319 --> 01:06:00.759
 at home.

01:06:00.899 --> 01:06:02.139
 It's a very, very good book.

01:06:02.139 --> 01:06:04.539
 In fact, I did an article

01:06:04.539 --> 01:06:05.440
 on the website

01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:06.400
 Reformation 21

01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:07.359
 just a week or two ago

01:06:07.359 --> 01:06:08.719
 on part two

01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:09.599
 of a sort of book

01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:10.440
 on how to read Luther

01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:11.940
 and I list the book there

01:06:11.940 --> 01:06:13.500
 in the last section

01:06:13.500 --> 01:06:13.739
 and say

01:06:13.739 --> 01:06:14.900
 Luther on the Jews

01:06:14.900 --> 01:06:15.779
 and I give

01:06:15.779 --> 01:06:17.379
 three or four titles

01:06:17.379 --> 01:06:18.259
 and that's one of them.

01:06:18.359 --> 01:06:19.339
 It's really a very

01:06:19.339 --> 01:06:20.579
 excellent treatment.

01:06:21.079 --> 01:06:21.259
 Right.

01:06:22.259 --> 01:06:23.539
 We need to wind it up there.

01:06:23.599 --> 01:06:24.239
 Maybe, just thinking

01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:24.639
 about the

01:06:24.639 --> 01:06:26.480
 astrological connection,

01:06:28.319 --> 01:06:29.480
 it's interesting

01:06:29.480 --> 01:06:30.379
 in the 19th century

01:06:30.380 --> 01:06:31.420
 when there was the explosion

01:06:31.420 --> 01:06:32.019
 in missionary

01:06:32.019 --> 01:06:35.940
 out of the UK

01:06:35.940 --> 01:06:37.440
 there was an expectation

01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:39.380
 both of the Lord's return

01:06:39.380 --> 01:06:40.160
 the world was going

01:06:40.160 --> 01:06:41.039
 to be evangelized

01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:42.500
 and that went hand in hand

01:06:42.500 --> 01:06:43.599
 with an increasing concern

01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:44.500
 for evangelization

01:06:44.500 --> 01:06:45.000
 of the Jews.

01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:46.740
 Just an interesting...

01:06:46.740 --> 01:06:47.320
 Yeah, the 19th century

01:06:47.320 --> 01:06:48.220
 Scotland of course.

01:06:48.240 --> 01:06:48.880
 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:49.019 --> 01:06:50.380
 He's got McShane and company.

01:06:51.500 --> 01:06:52.380
 I think we need to...

01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:53.460
 Maybe we'll want

01:06:53.460 --> 01:06:54.180
 a quick question.

01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:55.099
 Bob or that

01:06:55.099 --> 01:06:56.180
 by Christopher Brooks.

01:06:57.039 --> 01:06:57.700
 Christopher Brooks.

01:06:57.780 --> 01:06:58.480
 That's the name.

01:06:58.619 --> 01:06:58.760
 Yeah.

01:06:59.300 --> 01:07:00.079
 Thank you very much.

01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:00.539
 Oh, right.

01:07:00.619 --> 01:07:01.579
 Because he was based

01:07:01.579 --> 01:07:02.539
 in London for a while.

01:07:02.900 --> 01:07:03.759
 Go back to the US.

01:07:03.900 --> 01:07:04.500
 Yeah, yeah.

01:07:05.099 --> 01:07:05.940
 Christopher Brooks.

01:07:06.139 --> 01:07:07.179
 It's an excellent book.

01:07:07.380 --> 01:07:07.960
 And that's the book

01:07:07.960 --> 01:07:09.039
 that's making me...

01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:10.179
 He makes the argument

01:07:10.179 --> 01:07:11.539
 that there is a racial component

01:07:11.539 --> 01:07:12.319
 even to Luther.

01:07:12.900 --> 01:07:14.000
 And I've got to think

01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:14.539
 about that.

01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:16.940
 I've really been

01:07:16.940 --> 01:07:18.039
 an Oberman man

01:07:18.039 --> 01:07:18.619
 until now

01:07:18.619 --> 01:07:19.480
 but his arguments

01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:21.619
 are not insubstantial.

01:07:21.900 --> 01:07:22.599
 It's a very good book.

01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:24.380
 Yeah, it's a very,

01:07:24.500 --> 01:07:25.000
 very good book.

01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:26.119
 Fortunately,

01:07:26.239 --> 01:07:27.420
 I like Paul Althaus's

01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:28.099
 writings on Luther.

01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:29.179
 Paul Althaus doesn't

01:07:29.179 --> 01:07:30.599
 come out too well.

01:07:31.299 --> 01:07:32.139
 A bit too close

01:07:32.139 --> 01:07:34.419
 to the Nazi party,

01:07:34.679 --> 01:07:35.379
 unfortunately.

01:07:36.899 --> 01:07:38.519
 Thank you very much,

01:07:38.599 --> 01:07:38.819
 Carl.

01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:39.319
 Paul, what...