WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.419
 Before we start, let me just say on behalf of us all to thank Ciarán very, very much

00:00:06.419 --> 00:00:13.960
 for a very informative presentation of assisted suicide and euthanasia.

00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:20.480
 I think it's helped us all appreciate and understand the dangers, the warnings that are there.

00:00:20.580 --> 00:00:27.800
 And as I was listening, it just struck me this is a legal holocaust to some extent,

00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:35.620
 what is being presented and what is happening in Holland and essentially what will come down the tracks here.

00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:41.920
 I do have a couple of questions here, which I can start with.

00:00:42.780 --> 00:00:49.780
 And if there are other questions from the floor, you want to come back on anything that is said, please do.

00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:55.620
 So the first one is, what can we learn from the Christians in Holland

00:00:55.619 --> 00:01:04.140
 and how they have faced the whole legislation process, how they face the ongoing issue today

00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:07.739
 and what can we learn from the Christian church?

00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:12.299
 Well, interesting question. Thanks for that.

00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:14.759
 Let me come at it from this angle.

00:01:14.759 --> 00:01:19.179
 Hope Ireland, I mentioned them earlier, but I didn't say a whole lot about them.

00:01:19.180 --> 00:01:25.940
 I mentioned that they had their inaugural conference at the RDS last June.

00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:33.940
 And I think they're a very new organisation, like they were founded in 2014 by Dr. Kevin Fitzpatrick,

00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:41.320
 who was a paraplegic since 1973 and he died in January of this year.

00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:43.639
 I'm getting to the answer with this now.

00:01:44.119 --> 00:01:50.599
 But Hope Ireland, they're an independent disability-led single-focus organisation.

00:01:51.099 --> 00:01:55.079
 They are affiliated to the Youth in Asia Prevention Coalition International.

00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:04.119
 And at their conference, they invited people from the Netherlands, from Belgium, from Luxembourg,

00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:14.920
 from the USA to speak about their experiences in relation to trying to oppose these things.

00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:21.480
 What we can learn from the Christians, there's a very negative lesson to be learned from Dutch Christians.

00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:31.300
 The Dutch, many churches in Holland, you can't say certain things at all.

00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:38.680
 Like, you'll never hear a sermon in most churches ever about sexual morality.

00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:42.840
 Because they've gone past all that now.

00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.560
 And a lot of the churches are liberal.

00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.960
 Even churches that we think are conservative evangelical churches.

00:02:50.300 --> 00:02:52.480
 There are Reformed churches in the Netherlands.

00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:59.600
 But mostly Dutch Christians are allergic to Reformed theology.

00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:04.359
 because of their historical experience of it.

00:03:04.819 --> 00:03:06.359
 Whatever that might be.

00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.699
 So, we have to learn that in our churches,

00:03:10.699 --> 00:03:15.759
 we need to continue to address ethical and moral issues.

00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:22.159
 The leaders of the churches, those entrusted with responsibility to preach and teach,

00:03:22.519 --> 00:03:24.479
 must hold it before the people.

00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:25.979
 Not all the time.

00:03:26.119 --> 00:03:30.939
 You know, we don't want to be, like, we don't want kind of anti-homosexual sermons,

00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:32.500
 you know, that are homophobic.

00:03:32.819 --> 00:03:34.799
 And we don't want to be known for just that.

00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:37.079
 But we don't want to exclude it.

00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.579
 You can't really speak about euthanasia in Holland now.

00:03:41.859 --> 00:03:43.199
 Many Christians accept it.

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 Because it's part of their normal lives.

00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.519
 And has been for a long time.

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 Going back to the early 1990s, late 1980s.

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 So, some people have grown up with that.

00:03:55.740 --> 00:04:03.080
 So, what we need to do is we need to educate people.

00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:10.980
 There was a lecture given in a Canadian university by some people who oppose euthanasia.

00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:17.000
 Before the lecture, they polled the people attending the lecture.

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 And the majority were in favour of euthanasia.

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 After the lecture, they polled them again.

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 And found that now a majority were not in favour.

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 They were influenced by what they heard.

00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:41.299
 When the option of palliative care was presented to them,

00:04:41.799 --> 00:04:49.039
 when the reality of where this kind of choice leads was presented to them,

00:04:49.539 --> 00:04:51.159
 they changed their minds.

00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:55.179
 And I think there is an opportunity to influence us as Christians

00:04:55.179 --> 00:04:58.779
 to help people around us in conversations,

00:04:59.299 --> 00:05:01.299
 wherever it might be, in the workplace,

00:05:01.300 --> 00:05:02.860
 in the college,

00:05:03.379 --> 00:05:07.540
 to influence people to understand

00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:11.100
 that this is actually very bad for society

00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:12.319
 and very bad for them.

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 And I think that's a good starting place for us as Christians.

00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:17.660
 Thank you.

00:05:20.900 --> 00:05:21.939
 Another question.

00:05:23.300 --> 00:05:26.400
 I guess it's driven from a liberal agenda.

00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:39.500
 Is there any economical benefit for those who practice assisted suicide

00:05:39.500 --> 00:05:41.399
 in terms of costs and things like that?

00:05:41.479 --> 00:05:42.479
 Is that an area that...

00:05:42.479 --> 00:05:43.139
 It's a business.

00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:43.539
 Yeah.

00:05:44.099 --> 00:05:45.099
 Death is a business.

00:05:45.100 --> 00:05:51.040
 And somebody asked me this during the break,

00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.879
 and I was explaining that, say, Dignitas in Zurich, for example,

00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:56.879
 is a wealthy organisation.

00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:00.400
 They are now allowed to go into care homes

00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:06.639
 to administer assisted suicide for elderly patients.

00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:10.060
 And that's a recent development.

00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:14.259
 But a lot of people who go from other jurisdictions,

00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.120
 especially to avail of the service and Dignitas,

00:06:18.019 --> 00:06:21.220
 are elderly people who live alone,

00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:22.920
 tired of life,

00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:25.740
 or have been just diagnosed with a terminal illness,

00:06:25.819 --> 00:06:26.620
 and they're afraid,

00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.100
 and they're afraid of pain,

00:06:29.220 --> 00:06:30.259
 or afraid of...

00:06:30.259 --> 00:06:32.019
 And they just feel life is not worth living.

00:06:32.340 --> 00:06:33.000
 They go...

00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:37.259
 They will sign over the deeds of their houses to Dignitas

00:06:37.259 --> 00:06:38.279
 and things like that.

00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:39.899
 So they do make a lot of money,

00:06:40.019 --> 00:06:43.620
 and they do charge thousands for this service as well.

00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:47.060
 So there is a definite economic side to it.

00:06:47.579 --> 00:06:53.660
 And a lot of the people who have been killed at Dignitas

00:06:53.660 --> 00:06:55.480
 have been cremated,

00:06:55.980 --> 00:06:59.639
 and their ashes were dumped in urns in a nearby lake.

00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:06.219
 And I'm talking now of hundreds and hundreds of urns.

00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:11.439
 And a nurse who worked for Dignitas reported this.

00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:13.759
 And the lake was dredged,

00:07:13.899 --> 00:07:15.240
 and these urns were found.

00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.779
 So that's the kind of death with dignity

00:07:18.779 --> 00:07:20.639
 that Dignitas are offering,

00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:23.419
 dumping you in a lake, you know.

00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:33.860
 I don't know.

00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:35.759
 I don't know,

00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:37.800
 but I know that they can avail of the service.

00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:42.840
 And I just don't know the answer to that question.

00:07:46.620 --> 00:07:47.340
 Sorry.

00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:48.200
 Sorry.

00:07:48.420 --> 00:07:52.600
 Just for those who are elderly and can't hear so well.

00:07:53.420 --> 00:07:57.580
 The question was,

00:07:57.720 --> 00:07:59.819
 what happens to those who are teens

00:07:59.819 --> 00:08:02.780
 and they request assisted suicide,

00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:04.580
 who's going to pay for that?

00:08:05.379 --> 00:08:07.800
 Yeah, you answered the question yourself, I think.

00:08:08.200 --> 00:08:10.420
 I don't really know the answer to that.

00:08:10.939 --> 00:08:15.100
 But, yeah, it's part of medical care in Holland now.

00:08:15.100 --> 00:08:20.280
 It's so common, you know,

00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:22.700
 that it's not hugely expensive.

00:08:23.260 --> 00:08:24.680
 It's not like, say, Dignitas,

00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:25.939
 or things like that.

00:08:25.939 --> 00:08:27.280
 Everything is expensive in Switzerland,

00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:29.820
 especially the Toblerone.

00:08:29.819 --> 00:08:31.120
 But,

00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:31.139
 but,

00:08:32.139 --> 00:08:33.639
 pardon?

00:08:34.059 --> 00:08:35.100
 The cheap and deal.

00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:36.120
 Okay.

00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:36.600
 Okay.

00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:37.139
 Very good.

00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:37.779
 Thanks for that.

00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:39.460
 Bear will be down.

00:08:39.460 --> 00:08:44.259
 For example, now,

00:08:44.259 --> 00:08:46.680
 a woman in the Netherlands

00:08:46.680 --> 00:08:51.680
 applied for medical treatment

00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:53.340
 that was very expensive.

00:08:54.460 --> 00:08:54.580
 Okay.

00:08:55.340 --> 00:08:56.800
 Some new medical treatment.

00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:01.259
 And she was disqualified.

00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:03.639
 She was told she wasn't eligible to have this,

00:09:03.780 --> 00:09:04.680
 that it was too expensive.

00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.579
 in the post by letter.

00:09:07.239 --> 00:09:09.819
 And the letter included a brochure

00:09:09.819 --> 00:09:11.279
 on assisted suicide.

00:09:12.599 --> 00:09:15.120
 The same thing happened to a woman in Oregon

00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.059
 who applied for medication,

00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:19.219
 which was, again,

00:09:19.819 --> 00:09:21.419
 beyond her means

00:09:21.419 --> 00:09:24.339
 and to treat her condition.

00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:26.599
 And she was sent a prescription,

00:09:27.199 --> 00:09:28.159
 an actual prescription,

00:09:28.579 --> 00:09:29.379
 for suicide pills.

00:09:30.839 --> 00:09:32.339
 This is where we're at now.

00:09:32.339 --> 00:09:33.959
 Who pays for 16-year-olds?

00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:34.800
 I don't know.

00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:37.100
 Just don't know the answer to that.

00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.620
 But I do know it's part of medical care,

00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:41.180
 so-called,

00:09:41.379 --> 00:09:42.019
 in the Netherlands.

00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:45.580
 One of the criteria you mentioned,

00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:46.879
 I think there were nine.

00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.000
 And I certainly want to get the list of them again

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.360
 if anybody else is afterwards.

00:09:51.820 --> 00:09:52.860
 But one of them was that

00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:55.800
 somebody has to be terminally ill

00:09:55.800 --> 00:09:58.940
 before they are allowed to go through with it.

00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.160
 How do they actually assess

00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:03.680
 somebody who's terminally ill?

00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:04.979
 So, like,

00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:06.459
 if somebody does have cancer,

00:10:06.579 --> 00:10:07.099
 for example,

00:10:07.179 --> 00:10:07.959
 they may be told

00:10:07.959 --> 00:10:09.579
 you've got three months to live.

00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:10.399
 But equally,

00:10:10.539 --> 00:10:11.159
 they could say

00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:13.299
 you have five years to live.

00:10:13.459 --> 00:10:13.739
 That's right.

00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:15.139
 So at what level

00:10:15.139 --> 00:10:16.099
 or what stage?

00:10:16.479 --> 00:10:16.620
 Yeah.

00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:17.459
 Well,

00:10:17.599 --> 00:10:18.059
 initially,

00:10:18.459 --> 00:10:19.779
 the criteria

00:10:19.779 --> 00:10:21.139
 was that

00:10:21.139 --> 00:10:23.759
 you were terminally ill

00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:25.120
 and you had six months,

00:10:25.460 --> 00:10:27.279
 approximately six months to live.

00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:29.139
 But, you know,

00:10:29.419 --> 00:10:31.720
 diagnosis and prognosis

00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:32.980
 can be wrong.

00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:34.779
 And we all know,

00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:35.279
 I'm sure,

00:10:35.419 --> 00:10:37.299
 people who have been diagnosed

00:10:37.299 --> 00:10:38.819
 with a terminal illness

00:10:38.820 --> 00:10:41.379
 and they have,

00:10:41.560 --> 00:10:43.600
 they've lived

00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:44.780
 much longer

00:10:44.780 --> 00:10:47.340
 than the prognosis.

00:10:48.280 --> 00:10:49.400
 And we know

00:10:49.400 --> 00:10:50.420
 other people

00:10:50.420 --> 00:10:51.360
 who've been told

00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:52.600
 they've got two years to live

00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:53.760
 and they live for two weeks.

00:10:54.280 --> 00:10:56.100
 So you just don't know.

00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:56.820
 Good question.

00:10:56.820 --> 00:10:59.760
 But now,

00:10:59.900 --> 00:11:01.280
 it doesn't matter now anyway.

00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:02.560
 You don't have to be

00:11:02.560 --> 00:11:03.540
 even ill,

00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:05.120
 let alone terminally ill.

00:11:05.300 --> 00:11:06.580
 And you don't have to have

00:11:06.580 --> 00:11:08.120
 a prognosis of six months

00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:10.180
 or anything like that.

00:11:11.260 --> 00:11:11.379
 Yeah.

00:11:15.040 --> 00:11:15.520
 Kevin,

00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:16.500
 please.

00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:16.840
 Yeah.

00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:17.879
 Is there any body,

00:11:18.500 --> 00:11:20.260
 actually a body organisation

00:11:20.260 --> 00:11:21.220
 that's put in a way

00:11:21.220 --> 00:11:22.300
 to try to believe

00:11:22.300 --> 00:11:23.520
 who look like

00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:24.120
 they're imposing

00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:24.800
 these regulations?

00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:25.340
 You're saying

00:11:25.340 --> 00:11:26.580
 that they're totally ignored

00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:28.540
 but if we're,

00:11:28.700 --> 00:11:29.639
 we're not going to know

00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:30.139
 about this,

00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:30.860
 we're sure they know

00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:31.360
 about it too.

00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.200
 And is there any sense

00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:33.920
 of embarrassment

00:11:33.920 --> 00:11:34.759
 in their government

00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:36.360
 or in better professions

00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:37.259
 and is there any

00:11:37.259 --> 00:11:38.560
 organisation

00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:39.720
 that's been put in place

00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:40.500
 or was meant to be

00:11:40.500 --> 00:11:41.259
 at least to monitor?

00:11:41.860 --> 00:11:42.200
 Yeah,

00:11:42.300 --> 00:11:42.960
 there's an over...

00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:43.000
 Sorry,

00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:43.820
 I'll just repeat

00:11:43.820 --> 00:11:44.520
 the question again.

00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:45.980
 Is there a body

00:11:45.980 --> 00:11:47.120
 or an organisation

00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:47.960
 within Holland

00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:49.980
 and does the same exist here

00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:51.620
 to monitor

00:11:51.620 --> 00:11:52.500
 and make sure

00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:54.320
 that they are not

00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:55.180
 going down the route

00:11:55.180 --> 00:11:55.800
 that they are?

00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:57.359
 Just Holland

00:11:57.359 --> 00:11:58.339
 where it's being practised?

00:11:58.639 --> 00:11:58.799
 Yeah,

00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:01.679
 there's an oversight committee.

00:12:04.179 --> 00:12:05.099
 I kind of,

00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:06.099
 I'm tempted to laugh

00:12:06.099 --> 00:12:06.539
 at this,

00:12:06.659 --> 00:12:07.379
 it's so ridiculous,

00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:08.979
 but there are

00:12:08.979 --> 00:12:10.339
 an oversight committee

00:12:10.339 --> 00:12:12.019
 which consists of,

00:12:12.099 --> 00:12:12.719
 there are kind of

00:12:12.719 --> 00:12:14.059
 regional oversight committees

00:12:14.059 --> 00:12:15.219
 that consist of

00:12:15.219 --> 00:12:16.500
 doctors,

00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:17.439
 like two doctors

00:12:17.439 --> 00:12:18.179
 on the committee,

00:12:18.699 --> 00:12:19.339
 two lawyers

00:12:19.339 --> 00:12:20.240
 on the committee

00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.039
 and a philosophical expert.

00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:27.580
 Whatever that means,

00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:28.139
 you know,

00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:30.299
 and they're meant

00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:32.159
 to have some opinion

00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:35.779
 about the whole issue,

00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:37.379
 but you're not going

00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:38.240
 to be appointed

00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:39.480
 to a committee like that

00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:40.379
 unless you approve.

00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:43.080
 Doctors don't,

00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:44.299
 they don't function,

00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:44.960
 they don't work,

00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:45.899
 those oversight committees

00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:46.899
 don't work.

00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:47.720
 There have been

00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:48.959
 some prosecutions,

00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:50.439
 but those who've been

00:12:50.439 --> 00:12:51.199
 prosecuted

00:12:51.199 --> 00:12:52.720
 have got a rap

00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:53.319
 on the knuckles

00:12:53.319 --> 00:12:54.959
 and they've been told

00:12:54.959 --> 00:12:55.779
 they haven't got

00:12:55.779 --> 00:12:56.720
 sentences

00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:58.159
 or custodial sentences

00:12:58.159 --> 00:12:59.179
 or any sentences

00:12:59.179 --> 00:13:00.720
 and they've been told

00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:01.919
 just don't do that again.

00:13:02.439 --> 00:13:03.199
 Lots of doctors

00:13:03.199 --> 00:13:03.919
 in the Netherlands

00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:04.959
 don't,

00:13:05.079 --> 00:13:05.559
 when they're,

00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:07.740
 it's very bureaucratic,

00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:09.720
 assisted suicide

00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:10.600
 and euthanasia

00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:11.259
 and you have to

00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:12.060
 fill in forms

00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:14.980
 and ostensibly

00:13:14.980 --> 00:13:16.240
 to meet certain criteria,

00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:16.960
 a lot of doctors

00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:17.560
 don't bother

00:13:17.560 --> 00:13:20.180
 filling in the forms

00:13:20.180 --> 00:13:21.580
 and they put down

00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:22.560
 the underlying cause

00:13:22.560 --> 00:13:22.899
 of death

00:13:22.899 --> 00:13:23.659
 as something else

00:13:23.659 --> 00:13:24.300
 like pneumonia

00:13:24.300 --> 00:13:25.159
 or something like that

00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:25.639
 rather than

00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:26.340
 assisted suicide.

00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:28.080
 So even the statistics

00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.040
 that say 5,000 people

00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:30.720
 last year

00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:32.200
 were terminated

00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:33.399
 by euthanasia

00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:34.440
 and assisted suicide

00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:36.540
 and that doesn't involve

00:13:36.540 --> 00:13:37.920
 deep continuous sedation

00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:38.879
 which is another matter.

00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:40.600
 even those,

00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:41.620
 that 5,000

00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:42.539
 that we know about,

00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:44.460
 that's much less

00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:45.600
 than the reality

00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:46.720
 of what's happening.

00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:47.860
 Yeah.

00:13:48.939 --> 00:13:49.059
 Yeah.

00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:50.740
 Edie there,

00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:51.179
 please.

00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:51.419
 Yeah.

00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.320
 Trish.

00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:53.379
 I was wondering

00:13:53.379 --> 00:13:53.740
 if you have a

00:13:53.740 --> 00:13:54.240
 people with

00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.059
 and psychiatric

00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:56.799
 disorder

00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:58.220
 and the response

00:13:58.220 --> 00:13:58.500
 about

00:13:58.500 --> 00:13:59.299
 how does that happen

00:13:59.299 --> 00:13:59.779
 to people

00:13:59.779 --> 00:14:01.080
 to make decisions

00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:02.259
 to know

00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:03.440
 how does that happen

00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.220
 or is there

00:14:04.220 --> 00:14:04.700
 an incentive

00:14:04.700 --> 00:14:05.500
 to talk to people

00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:06.039
 who don't want

00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:06.860
 to be able to

00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:07.120
 accept

00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.120
 that there

00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.000
 to make decisions?

00:14:10.659 --> 00:14:10.919
 Yeah.

00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:13.080
 You don't want to

00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:13.720
 repeat the question?

00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:14.279
 No, you don't.

00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:14.500
 Okay.

00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:15.879
 So the question there

00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:16.659
 is what about

00:14:16.659 --> 00:14:17.320
 those who are

00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:17.860
 struggling with

00:14:17.860 --> 00:14:18.820
 a mental illness?

00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:20.940
 How do they reach

00:14:20.940 --> 00:14:22.360
 a decision themselves

00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:23.820
 about requesting

00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:24.320
 suicide

00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:25.240
 and how is that

00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:25.720
 monitored

00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:26.720
 and is there

00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:27.560
 anything in place

00:14:27.560 --> 00:14:29.440
 to assess that?

00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:30.360
 Well, obviously

00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:31.620
 for a lot of people

00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:32.440
 it's other people

00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:33.139
 who make those

00:14:33.139 --> 00:14:34.180
 decisions for them.

00:14:34.179 --> 00:14:37.419
 people

00:14:37.419 --> 00:14:39.019
 who might have

00:14:39.019 --> 00:14:40.759
 an elderly parent

00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:41.459
 who is suffering

00:14:41.459 --> 00:14:42.579
 from Alzheimer's

00:14:42.579 --> 00:14:44.819
 their distress

00:14:44.819 --> 00:14:46.500
 is an issue

00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:48.199
 that they present

00:14:48.199 --> 00:14:48.919
 to the doctor

00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:49.279
 and say

00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:50.339
 look, he's only

00:14:50.339 --> 00:14:50.679
 going to live

00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:51.179
 a short length

00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:51.839
 of time anyway

00:14:51.839 --> 00:14:52.379
 can we do

00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:53.259
 anything about this?

00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:54.620
 And it's accommodated.

00:14:54.719 --> 00:14:55.259
 The thing about

00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:55.939
 the Netherlands

00:14:55.939 --> 00:14:56.819
 is that

00:14:56.819 --> 00:14:59.019
 long before

00:14:59.019 --> 00:14:59.659
 euthanasia

00:14:59.659 --> 00:15:00.399
 was practiced

00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:01.719
 or legalized

00:15:01.719 --> 00:15:02.299
 it was widely

00:15:02.299 --> 00:15:02.819
 practiced

00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:03.420
 as I said

00:15:03.420 --> 00:15:06.160
 the research

00:15:06.160 --> 00:15:06.860
 was conducted

00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:07.560
 we don't have

00:15:07.560 --> 00:15:08.080
 this kind of

00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:08.879
 research in Ireland

00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.379
 we don't know

00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:11.820
 how many people

00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:13.060
 are being killed

00:15:13.060 --> 00:15:14.379
 or that

00:15:14.379 --> 00:15:15.080
 you know

00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:15.879
 what exactly

00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:16.640
 is going on

00:15:16.640 --> 00:15:17.379
 the Dutch

00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:18.160
 tell the truth

00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:19.320
 at least

00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:20.820
 you know

00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:21.360
 when they were

00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:21.600
 asked

00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:22.020
 the doctors

00:15:22.020 --> 00:15:22.400
 were asked

00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:22.860
 are you killing

00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:23.260
 people?

00:15:23.420 --> 00:15:23.879
 They said yes

00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.060
 and we've been

00:15:26.060 --> 00:15:26.480
 doing this

00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:27.160
 for 10 years

00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:27.640
 you know

00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:28.840
 and we want

00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:29.440
 it regulated

00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:30.240
 because we don't

00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:30.660
 want to be

00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:31.360
 criminalized

00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.100
 I'm not too

00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:33.639
 sure that

00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:34.200
 we would get

00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:34.620
 the same

00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:35.019
 kind of

00:15:35.019 --> 00:15:35.519
 response

00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:36.200
 in Ireland

00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.779
 but those

00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:40.279
 decisions

00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:40.919
 obviously

00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:41.600
 some people

00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:42.039
 don't have

00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:42.500
 the capacity

00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:42.919
 to make

00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:43.340
 a decision

00:15:43.340 --> 00:15:46.740
 and the

00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:47.100
 decision

00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:47.560
 is made

00:15:47.560 --> 00:15:48.019
 for them

00:15:48.019 --> 00:15:52.240
 it's a

00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:52.879
 kind of

00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:53.340
 a personal

00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:53.860
 sensitive

00:15:53.860 --> 00:15:54.180
 issue

00:15:54.180 --> 00:15:54.740
 for me

00:15:54.740 --> 00:15:55.340
 because

00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:56.980
 my elder

00:15:56.980 --> 00:15:57.320
 brother

00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:58.840
 he died

00:15:58.840 --> 00:15:59.600
 a couple

00:15:59.600 --> 00:15:59.879
 of years

00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:00.059
 ago

00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:00.399
 now

00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:00.980
 almost

00:16:00.980 --> 00:16:01.580
 and

00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:03.000
 he was

00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:03.179
 Down

00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:03.460
 Syndrome

00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:04.639
 and I

00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:04.919
 have a

00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:05.179
 sister

00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:05.460
 who's

00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:05.679
 Down

00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:06.000
 Syndrome

00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:06.439
 as well

00:16:06.439 --> 00:16:07.379
 and I

00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:07.740
 brought up

00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:08.299
 this Bourbon

00:16:08.299 --> 00:16:08.639
 biscuit

00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:09.120
 to tell you

00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:09.360
 a little

00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:10.000
 funny story

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:10.340
 because

00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:11.200
 the whole

00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:11.539
 night

00:16:11.539 --> 00:16:12.019
 needs a

00:16:12.019 --> 00:16:12.340
 little bit

00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:12.939
 of livening

00:16:12.939 --> 00:16:13.139
 up

00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:14.179
 and

00:16:14.179 --> 00:16:16.559
 my mother

00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:17.419
 never bought

00:16:17.419 --> 00:16:17.899
 biscuits

00:16:17.899 --> 00:16:18.379
 at home

00:16:18.379 --> 00:16:20.019
 we had

00:16:20.019 --> 00:16:20.700
 an orchard

00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:21.080
 and she

00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:21.840
 always baked

00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:22.759
 apple tarts

00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:23.419
 and Ruber

00:16:23.419 --> 00:16:24.320
 tarts

00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:24.840
 and all of

00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:25.019
 that

00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:25.299
 and it

00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:25.700
 was lovely

00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:26.680
 and then

00:16:26.680 --> 00:16:27.140
 one

00:16:27.140 --> 00:16:28.940
 time

00:16:28.940 --> 00:16:29.520
 my mother

00:16:29.520 --> 00:16:30.040
 went to

00:16:30.040 --> 00:16:30.340
 visit

00:16:30.340 --> 00:16:30.920
 my aunt

00:16:30.920 --> 00:16:31.240
 who

00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:32.220
 oh yeah

00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:32.740
 my aunt

00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:33.080
 used to

00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:33.420
 give us

00:16:33.420 --> 00:16:33.860
 a tin

00:16:33.860 --> 00:16:34.500
 of biscuits

00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:35.220
 USA

00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:35.700
 biscuits

00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:36.100
 I think

00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:36.379
 it was

00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:37.080
 and they

00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:37.320
 had

00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:37.900
 these

00:16:37.900 --> 00:16:38.500
 Bourbons

00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:38.879
 you see

00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:39.560
 and then

00:16:39.560 --> 00:16:40.060
 one time

00:16:40.060 --> 00:16:40.759
 in June

00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.060
 my mother

00:16:43.060 --> 00:16:43.460
 went to

00:16:43.460 --> 00:16:43.759
 visit

00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:44.580
 my aunt

00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:45.000
 and my

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:45.259
 aunt

00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:45.780
 produced

00:16:45.780 --> 00:16:46.160
 this

00:16:46.160 --> 00:16:46.860
 plate

00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:47.300
 of

00:16:47.300 --> 00:16:48.660
 biscuits

00:16:48.660 --> 00:16:49.220
 and it

00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:49.379
 had

00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:50.040
 and Michael

00:16:50.040 --> 00:16:50.600
 my brother

00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:51.420
 he reached

00:16:51.420 --> 00:16:51.700
 out

00:16:51.700 --> 00:16:51.980
 and he

00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:52.820
 picked up

00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:53.520
 the

00:16:53.520 --> 00:16:54.000
 Bourbon

00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:54.340
 biscuit

00:16:54.340 --> 00:16:54.660
 and he

00:16:54.660 --> 00:16:54.860
 said

00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:55.360
 ah

00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:55.940
 Christmas

00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:58.540
 and I

00:16:58.540 --> 00:16:58.780
 never

00:16:58.780 --> 00:16:59.139
 look at

00:16:59.139 --> 00:16:59.580
 a Bourbon

00:16:59.580 --> 00:16:59.960
 biscuit

00:16:59.960 --> 00:17:00.259
 without

00:17:00.259 --> 00:17:00.700
 thinking

00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:01.440
 of

00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.820
 Michael

00:17:01.820 --> 00:17:02.800
 and

00:17:02.800 --> 00:17:03.360
 that

00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:03.860
 story

00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:04.860
 and

00:17:04.860 --> 00:17:06.100
 but

00:17:06.100 --> 00:17:07.400
 you know

00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:08.600
 Down

00:17:08.600 --> 00:17:09.160
 syndrome

00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:10.559
 fetuses

00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:11.140
 now are

00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:11.480
 being

00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:11.980
 aborted

00:17:11.980 --> 00:17:12.660
 because it

00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:12.940
 can be

00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:13.340
 detected

00:17:13.340 --> 00:17:14.640
 and

00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:15.700
 so there

00:17:15.700 --> 00:17:16.100
 are very

00:17:16.100 --> 00:17:16.579
 few of

00:17:16.579 --> 00:17:16.759
 them

00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:17.319
 in the

00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:17.660
 Netherlands

00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:18.880
 and

00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:19.740
 should

00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:20.440
 one be

00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:20.840
 born

00:17:20.840 --> 00:17:22.620
 the

00:17:22.620 --> 00:17:23.160
 parents

00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:23.559
 have the

00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:23.900
 right

00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:25.200
 to say

00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.340
 you know

00:17:27.340 --> 00:17:27.759
 this is

00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:28.160
 too much

00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:28.500
 suffering

00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:29.060
 for us

00:17:29.060 --> 00:17:30.000
 and have

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:30.440
 that life

00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:31.120
 that's

00:17:31.120 --> 00:17:31.700
 kind of

00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:32.900
 infanticide

00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:34.360
 euphemistically

00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:35.500
 redescribed

00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:36.580
 as euthanasia

00:17:36.580 --> 00:17:38.000
 other people

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:38.500
 make those

00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:38.900
 decisions

00:17:38.900 --> 00:17:39.820
 for them

00:17:39.820 --> 00:17:40.080
 yeah

00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:42.660
 Ralph

00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:42.980
 at the

00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:43.340
 back

00:17:43.339 --> 00:17:55.139
 yeah

00:17:55.139 --> 00:17:56.139
 yeah

00:17:56.139 --> 00:17:56.199
 yeah

00:17:56.199 --> 00:17:58.779
 so

00:17:58.779 --> 00:17:59.519
 there's

00:17:59.519 --> 00:17:59.799
 different

00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:00.179
 countries

00:18:00.179 --> 00:18:00.639
 like the

00:18:00.639 --> 00:18:01.039
 Netherlands

00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:01.839
 different

00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:02.459
 states

00:18:02.459 --> 00:18:02.919
 in the

00:18:02.919 --> 00:18:03.259
 US

00:18:03.259 --> 00:18:03.500
 other

00:18:03.500 --> 00:18:03.899
 places

00:18:03.899 --> 00:18:04.259
 that have

00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:04.500
 gone

00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:04.759
 down

00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:04.919
 the

00:18:04.919 --> 00:18:05.139
 road

00:18:05.139 --> 00:18:05.299
 of

00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:06.039
 euthanasia

00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.000
 are there

00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:07.259
 any

00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:07.940
 examples

00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:08.180
 of

00:18:08.180 --> 00:18:08.539
 countries

00:18:08.539 --> 00:18:08.859
 that have

00:18:08.859 --> 00:18:09.399
 started

00:18:09.399 --> 00:18:09.700
 down

00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:09.960
 that

00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:10.319
 road

00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:11.099
 but have

00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:11.359
 pulled

00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:11.799
 back

00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:13.539
 very good

00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:13.980
 question

00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:14.359
 Ralph

00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:14.879
 and

00:18:14.879 --> 00:18:16.519
 to use

00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:17.019
 a medical

00:18:17.019 --> 00:18:17.519
 term

00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.079
 it has

00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:19.339
 been

00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:20.000
 suggested

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.579
 that

00:18:20.579 --> 00:18:21.139
 the

00:18:21.139 --> 00:18:21.659
 situation

00:18:21.659 --> 00:18:22.019
 in

00:18:22.019 --> 00:18:22.480
 Oregon

00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:23.279
 is having

00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:23.659
 an

00:18:23.659 --> 00:18:25.200
 immunological

00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:25.920
 effect

00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:27.180
 that

00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:27.579
 other

00:18:27.579 --> 00:18:28.240
 states

00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:28.519
 in

00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:28.899
 America

00:18:28.899 --> 00:18:29.220
 are

00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:29.599
 looking

00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:29.839
 at

00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:30.139
 what's

00:18:30.139 --> 00:18:30.379
 going

00:18:30.379 --> 00:18:30.599
 on

00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:30.779
 in

00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:31.159
 Oregon

00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:31.720
 and

00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:31.960
 it's

00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:32.500
 preventing

00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:32.960
 them

00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:33.420
 from

00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:33.720
 going

00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:33.960
 down

00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:34.220
 that

00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:34.480
 road

00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:35.920
 because

00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:37.040
 what has

00:18:37.040 --> 00:18:37.340
 happened

00:18:37.340 --> 00:18:37.540
 in

00:18:37.540 --> 00:18:37.880
 Oregon

00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:38.500
 is an

00:18:38.500 --> 00:18:39.380
 unmitigated

00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:40.220
 disaster

00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:41.740
 one

00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:42.860
 woman

00:18:42.860 --> 00:18:43.320
 who had

00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:44.019
 a stroke

00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:45.460
 was

00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:47.259
 her

00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:47.779
 daughter

00:18:47.779 --> 00:18:49.759
 wanted

00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:50.400
 her to

00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:50.620
 be

00:18:50.620 --> 00:18:51.240
 euthanized

00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:52.180
 and

00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:52.540
 so

00:18:52.540 --> 00:18:52.820
 the

00:18:52.820 --> 00:18:53.259
 doctor

00:18:53.259 --> 00:18:54.180
 gave

00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:54.480
 her

00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:55.180
 valium

00:18:55.180 --> 00:18:55.660
 and

00:18:55.660 --> 00:18:56.279
 morphine

00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:58.060
 in

00:18:58.060 --> 00:18:58.400
 large

00:18:58.400 --> 00:18:59.300
 doses

00:18:59.300 --> 00:19:01.000
 and

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:01.759
 when

00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:02.000
 that

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:02.359
 didn't

00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:02.700
 work

00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:04.839
 he

00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:05.259
 used

00:19:05.259 --> 00:19:05.420
 a

00:19:05.420 --> 00:19:05.759
 magnet

00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:06.019
 to

00:19:06.019 --> 00:19:06.519
 interfere

00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:06.859
 with

00:19:06.859 --> 00:19:07.039
 her

00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:07.640
 pacemaker

00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:09.319
 and

00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:11.839
 when

00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:12.160
 that

00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:12.480
 didn't

00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:12.720
 work

00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:12.900
 he

00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:13.460
 suffocated

00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:13.720
 her

00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:15.259
 so

00:19:15.259 --> 00:19:17.440
 he

00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:17.680
 was

00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:17.960
 given

00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:18.380
 six

00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:18.880
 months

00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.220
 a

00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:20.480
 six

00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:20.819
 month

00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:23.099
 suspended

00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:23.720
 sentence

00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:24.799
 and

00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:25.140
 he's

00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:25.319
 now

00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:25.759
 practicing

00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:26.299
 medicine

00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:26.859
 so

00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:27.160
 people

00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:27.339
 are

00:19:27.339 --> 00:19:27.619
 looking

00:19:27.619 --> 00:19:27.940
 on

00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:28.180
 and

00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:28.680
 it's

00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.319
 preventative

00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:29.500
 in

00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:29.700
 that

00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:29.960
 way

00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:30.480
 but

00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:30.900
 there's

00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:31.039
 an

00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:31.440
 example

00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.700
 in

00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:32.380
 Australia

00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:33.819
 one

00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:34.099
 of the

00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:34.339
 states

00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:34.480
 in

00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:34.900
 Australia

00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:35.220
 I

00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:35.539
 think

00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:35.759
 it's

00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:36.160
 Queensland

00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:36.680
 you can

00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:36.940
 check

00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:37.339
 the book

00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:37.839
 I forget

00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:38.160
 now

00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:39.120
 they

00:19:39.120 --> 00:19:39.740
 introduced

00:19:39.740 --> 00:19:40.299
 assisted

00:19:40.299 --> 00:19:40.880
 suicide

00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:42.200
 and

00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:42.779
 you know

00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:43.220
 one of

00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:43.339
 the

00:19:43.339 --> 00:19:43.660
 doctor

00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:44.059
 death

00:19:44.059 --> 00:19:44.740
 people

00:19:44.740 --> 00:19:46.420
 Nichike

00:19:46.420 --> 00:19:49.279
 lobbied

00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:49.660
 for it

00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:50.099
 and it

00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:50.259
 was

00:19:50.259 --> 00:19:50.819
 introduced

00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:51.980
 but

00:19:51.980 --> 00:19:53.660
 they've

00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:54.180
 changed

00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:54.599
 the law

00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:54.900
 they've

00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:55.079
 gone

00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:55.440
 back

00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:56.380
 because

00:19:56.380 --> 00:19:56.799
 they've

00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:57.160
 seen

00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:57.579
 that it

00:19:57.579 --> 00:19:58.019
 was

00:19:58.019 --> 00:19:58.400
 just

00:19:58.400 --> 00:19:59.120
 terrible

00:19:59.119 --> 00:19:59.619
 what it

00:19:59.619 --> 00:20:00.000
 was

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:00.339
 you

00:20:00.339 --> 00:20:00.500
 know

00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:01.299
 so

00:20:01.299 --> 00:20:01.959
 Australia

00:20:01.959 --> 00:20:02.279
 is a

00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:02.419
 good

00:20:02.419 --> 00:20:02.899
 example

00:20:02.899 --> 00:20:05.339
 Peter

00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:07.799
 Tim

00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:11.619
 yeah

00:20:11.619 --> 00:20:12.220
 cheers

00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:15.679
 tes

00:20:15.679 --> 00:20:15.959
 You

00:20:15.959 --> 00:20:17.539
 mentioned

00:20:17.539 --> 00:20:21.539
 I mean, you mentioned go hard on.

00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:34.539
 Should that be the, should the response of the churches be to encourage local members to go on for a general, generic heading like that and not to use our own names of such?

00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:38.539
 Or what should we do at the square as well?

00:20:38.539 --> 00:20:42.539
 Should we push harder than anything?

00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:48.539
 Even if we could be very nervous on referential worship and things like that.

00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:50.539
 Yeah, sorry.

00:20:50.539 --> 00:20:59.539
 So the question there is in regards to the Netherlands response to euthanasia, the church seems to be reluctant in speaking out.

00:20:59.539 --> 00:21:04.539
 So how is we, how do we as a church here in Ireland respond to that?

00:21:04.539 --> 00:21:12.539
 Is it better that we together come collectively, the evangelical church underneath an organization like Hope Ireland, is it?

00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:17.539
 Yeah, underneath Hope Ireland and yeah.

00:21:17.539 --> 00:21:19.539
 Okay, thanks Peter.

00:21:19.539 --> 00:21:30.539
 The Care Not Killing group in the UK, they're a broad coalition as well, an alliance.

00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:35.539
 They have Christians as members, like the Christian Medical Fellowship for example are members.

00:21:35.539 --> 00:21:42.539
 But they're really a kind of an independent group and they, they're a single focus.

00:21:42.539 --> 00:22:01.539
 I think it's very, the experience of Care Not Killing is very interesting because they learned over a long period of time that it was better to be a single focus issue group and not to be a group that focuses on abortion,

00:22:01.539 --> 00:22:09.539
 but it is a group that was better on divides against prohibits, euthanasia and assisted suicide and bioethics, embryonic research.

00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:10.539
 All that sort of thing.

00:22:10.539 --> 00:22:24.539
 So, and they also felt that the use of specifically Christian language was unhelpful in kind of winning the public debate, whatever we might think about that.

00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:34.779
 so I do think a coalition a broad coalition is needed and I do think that specifically

00:22:34.779 --> 00:22:41.139
 Christian language like sermonic kind of language about the issue might not be the most helpful

00:22:41.139 --> 00:22:49.059
 way of communicating we can still defend the ethical principles and the morality of this issue

00:22:49.059 --> 00:22:57.359
 knowing our basis our biblical basis and our motivation but not necessarily to to do that

00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:06.019
 the Hope Ireland I'm sure you wouldn't be banned if you're able-bodied but I've I've seen pictures

00:23:06.019 --> 00:23:12.619
 of them a lot of them are in wheelchairs so I'm sure it's it's open to people who are not

00:23:12.619 --> 00:23:18.200
 they're relatively new you could get involved with an organization like that or somebody should

00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:28.600
 really develop an association where you know we as evangelical Christians can comment on these

00:23:28.600 --> 00:23:37.920
 issues you know it's like very often you have fuddy-duddy people brought in on Channel 4 news

00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:46.120
 you know the case of Tony Tom Lincolnson who had locked-in syndrome it was very sad case and he

00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:52.199
 died since but Channel 4 has an agenda you know they've had very good agendas now they they

00:23:52.199 --> 00:23:59.759
 champion the cause of disabled people and but they also promote things like they had Terry Pratchett

00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:06.279
 in as well and they promote this issue you know of assisted suicide in euthanasia and they and

00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:15.240
 Tony Tom Lincolnson was used in that way a kind of a real worst-case scenario and they had some

00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:23.799
 fuddy-duddy vicar in to talk about it and they never seem to want to get somebody you know equally matched

00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:30.200
 in you know to kind of give the opposite view there is a media bias that we have to deal with you need to

00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:37.319
 be media savvy some people I forget the former Archbishop of Canterbury's name Carey the first

00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:43.960
 name can't won't come to me I won't call him Lord especially not today today is the anniversary of

00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:53.480
 the 2000 of the 1916 rising so we couldn't call him Lord Carey but I'm tempted to say William but he's

00:24:53.480 --> 00:25:00.360
 changed his mind he opposed vigorously he in the House of Lords he spoke and he opposed um euthanasia

00:25:00.360 --> 00:25:05.400
 and assisted suicide but he's changed his mind now and you have that kind of equivocation coming

00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:12.920
 from certain quarters which is very unhelpful yeah well it it seems to me that while there are others

00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:21.000
 like Hope Ireland who are speaking out that as a church we can't afford not to speak out um

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:27.480
 ourselves individually and as churches together and I'm not sure if there's another question

00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:34.119
 here's just one more and how can we convince a non-believer about the sanctity of life

00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:45.640
 yeah um the secular world view has taken root hasn't it it's taken hold and we're definitely facing an

00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:54.040
 uphill battle but it's the work of God and uh the Holy Spirit can prevail and we're called to be

00:25:54.040 --> 00:26:02.040
 faithful in uh proclaiming the truth and communicating the truth to not necessarily through proclamation but

00:26:02.040 --> 00:26:11.320
 through conversation and through the way we live and uh but you know if it's about building relationships

00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:17.799
 it's about seizing the opportunities that we have to talk about the Lord and to share you know um

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:25.960
 something about the value of life I think a lot of people are looking for community belonging hope

00:26:26.679 --> 00:26:30.439
 you know it's a bleak world out there without Jesus

00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:36.920
 um last one Graham thank you

00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:52.360
 is there a connection between abortion and euthanasia so where countries have legalized

00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:57.000
 abortion does it then follow that euthanasia is legalized um

00:26:59.159 --> 00:27:07.399
 abortion has been legal in the UK since 1966 it's a again a very good question because

00:27:08.199 --> 00:27:17.159
 the criteria for introducing abortion was again very strict it was meant to be a kind of a therapeutic

00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:26.440
 um intervention uh you know to save the life of the mother and that a side effect could be abortion

00:27:27.080 --> 00:27:35.720
 uh but now you know people have driven a coach and six horses through that legislation and um what you

00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:43.160
 have now is abortion on demand a form of post-sex contraception whatever the small print might say

00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:49.560
 that's the reality and you can look back then to abortion and you can look at the strict criteria

00:27:50.120 --> 00:27:59.080
 and how that event again was diluted and diluted down and and it has become now just

00:28:00.120 --> 00:28:06.600
 a casual thing and most abortions are not performed for medical reasons they're performed for social reasons

00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:15.719
 i'm going to just hold the question time there and formally bring the evening to a conclusion

00:28:15.719 --> 00:28:20.279
 and please do talk to kieran if you've got more questions do have a look at his book

00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:28.199
 um at a good offer tonight for 10 euro and again on behalf of us all just to thank kieran very much for

00:28:28.199 --> 00:28:35.559
 helping us in our thinking and begin the process of preparing ourselves for what is coming and

00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:43.559
 certainly for all the knowledge and um yeah just your discernment kieran tonight uh certainly thank you

00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:50.679
 so much indeed there's also a recording of tonight as well so if you go on to the carrigaline baptist church

00:28:51.399 --> 00:28:58.679
 carrigalinebaptist.org you'll find a recording um sometime tomorrow or even tonight if ralph gets to

00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:02.039
 it um so i'm going to close in prayer

00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:02.680
 um