WEBVTT

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 Thanks for this warm space where we can meet.

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 Thank you for the privilege that we can open up your word

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 and learn more about you and your son.

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 Lord Jesus, we pray that as you promised

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 at the end of Matthew's gospel,

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 that you would be with us to the end of the age,

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 that you'd be with us now by your spirit

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 as we consider the deepest mystery of all, Lord,

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 your incarnation and who you have become for us

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 by becoming flesh.

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 Lord, give us humility as we approach these topics.

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 Give us understanding.

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 Above all, we pray, you'd give us hearts

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 that are in all of you more and more

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 and in worship of you, adoration of you.

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 We pray this in your mighty name, Jesus, amen.

00:00:45.340 --> 00:00:49.799
 Okay, so where have we been in this class

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 on the person of Christ,

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 which is sometimes called Christology.

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 So if you're ever reading books of theology

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 or you're reading things, you run across Christology.

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 Basically what that means is just the doctrine

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 of the person of Christ.

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 So who is Jesus, his person?

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 And if you'll remember kind of where we've been in our class,

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 we've been doing kind of a walkthrough

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 of the person of Jesus.

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 Two weeks ago, we considered that Jesus is fully human.

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 So we looked through the gospel records

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 and looked at how Jesus had a fully human body,

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 how he had a fully human mind.

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 He had fully human emotions.

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 Just all the ways in which we think about ourselves

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 as human, we see that reflected in the gospels,

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 that Jesus was fully human.

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 And then just last week, we reflected on the fact

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 that Jesus is fully God.

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 And we looked at all those things that were,

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 some of those moments in the gospels

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 where Jesus is in his own words, in his own actions,

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 sort of claiming to be the one true God here among us,

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 like claiming to forgive sins,

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 claiming that only he knows the father

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 and only the father knows him,

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 these sorts of things.

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 Okay, so we've established two wonderful things,

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 that Jesus has a fully human nature

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 and he's fully God, he's a fully divine nature.

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 What more is there to talk about

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 in a class on Christology, right?

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 We're done.

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 Ah, but one large question still remains, right?

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 What is the relationship of these two natures

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 in the one person, Jesus?

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 Right?

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 We sort of say these two things,

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 but man, what does that even mean?

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 How do we relate those to one another?

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 Is there a way we can press into

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 the unity of the person of Christ?

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 Now, this is a very difficult question.

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 So as we approach this topic this morning,

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 we'll do so with some humility

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 and maybe even some trepidation.

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 One theologian, Millard Erickson, writes this.

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 He says,

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 this is the most difficult of all theological problems,

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 how the two natures of Christ are in one person.

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 Ranking up there, he says,

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 with the doctrine of the Trinity

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 and the doctrine of the relationship

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 of human free will and divine sovereignty.

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 So Erickson, they're sort of locating

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 some of these divine mysteries

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 that are very deep,

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 the doctrine of the Trinity,

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 how our agency and God's sovereignty

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 relate to one another.

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 But here's the sort of one that takes the cake,

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 what we sometimes call the hypostatic union.

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 How is it that there are two natures

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 in the one being of Jesus?

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 Okay.

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 And it's sort of obvious

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 why that's a difficult question, right?

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 Like Erickson goes on to say

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 in that same paragraph I referenced.

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 You know, it's difficult to comprehend

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 because it posits the combination of two natures

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 that by definition are contradictory, right?

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 I mean, think about deity, right?

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 Christ is infinite in his knowledge, power, and presence,

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 being fully God.

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 If he's God, he has to know all things.

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 You know, if he's God,

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 he can do all things that are proper objects

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 of his power, right?

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 If he's God, he can be everywhere at once.

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 But on the other hand, if he was human,

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 he was limited in knowledge.

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 He couldn't do everything.

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 And he certainly was limited

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 to being in one place at one time, right?

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 So how are those two natures combined in one person?

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 So it's a difficult question,

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 but it's also an important question, right?

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 It's not one just that, you know,

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 theologians can sort of write dissertations about

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 and get tenure and teach at a seminary, you know?

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 It's actually important.

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 And what's really neat,

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 this morning we're going to walk through

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 the historical development

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 of how the church has thought about this,

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 and we'll see that in the early centuries of the church,

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 this was the issue.

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 This was the issue over which

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 they spent most of their time and energy

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 because it was central.

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 Why was it central?

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 Because, I mean, one way of thinking about it, right?

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 This idea, this doctrine of the person of Christ,

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 what we call Christology, is important

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 because the incarnation involved,

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 well, we might say the bridging of the gap,

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 the bridging not just of sort of the kind of

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 metaphysical or ontological gap, right,

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 but bridging of the moral and spiritual gap

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 between God and humanity, right?

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 The great chasm between us and God

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 that sin had opened up,

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 it's the incarnation that bridges that gap.

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 And if it's really going to bridge that gap,

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 then Jesus has to be

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 divine and human in one person.

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 There has to be a unity

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 of deity and humanity within Jesus, right?

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 If they weren't,

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 then it's almost as if

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 the problem still remains, right?

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 Okay.

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 We'll come back to some of the

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 sort of deeper significance of these things

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 as we get to the end.

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 But let's think about this.

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 So, again, this is Millard Erickson.

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 He has a really good chapter on this.

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 I'll be referencing a lot of his stuff as we go.

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 But Millard Erickson,

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 it was a Baptist theologian in the South.

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 I think he taught somewhere.

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 Did he teach at Southwestern?

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 Do you know, Tyler, where Erickson taught?

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 Yeah, he's...

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 I'm going to read something from his book,

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 which is kind of funny,

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 because it's a very dry textbook that he wrote.

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 He wrote a big book called Christian Theology.

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 And, you know, Millard Erickson isn't known for, like,

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 you know, flowery language or things like this.

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 But then he comes to the end of his chapter

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 on the unity of the person of Christ,

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 and he says,

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 it's sometimes been said

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 that there are only seven basic jokes.

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 And every joke is a variation on one of them.

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 I don't know what the seven are.

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 He doesn't get into it, right?

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 But then he says,

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 a similar statement can be made

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 about the errors regarding the person of Christ.

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 So here's Millard Erickson sort of using comedy

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 as an illustration for understanding

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 the deepest mystery of all time,

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 the person of Christ.

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 But what he says is really, really helpful.

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 He says,

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 you know, there are basically,

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 there are basically six ways in which,

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 as humans,

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 we sort of go wrong

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 in thinking about the person of Christ.

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 And as we think about those six ways

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 historically that developed,

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 we can sort of figure out,

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 like, okay, well,

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 there are the kind of edges of the sandbox, right?

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 As we've tried to push up against it

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 with our human intellect,

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 we have found where, like,

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 we drift off into error.

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 And he says,

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 and I'll write some of these down as we go,

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 but he says,

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 here are the six.

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 Either they deny the genuineness

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 or the completeness of Jesus's deity.

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 There's the first two.

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 Either Jesus isn't divine,

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 or he's not totally divine.

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 There's the first two.

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 Or they deny the genuineness

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 or completeness of his humanity.

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 So Jesus either just isn't really human,

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 or he's, like, not totally human.

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 Or, here's the other two,

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 they divide his person

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 or they confuse his natures.

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 Now, those are the two

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 we'll spend a little more time on this morning

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 because those are maybe

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 the little more harder ones

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 to wrap our minds around.

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 And then Erickson says,

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 all departures from the orthodox doctrine

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 of the person of Christ

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 are simply variations

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 of one of these heresies.

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 And when he says orthodox there,

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 he just means

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 this is what the scriptures teach

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 and this is what the church faithfully

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 has affirmed throughout the ages.

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 This is sort of right belief

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 and right worship

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 or in line with,

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 or, like,

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 when you go to the orthodontist,

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 what are they doing?

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 They're ortho-ing your dontics, right?

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 They're straightening your teeth, right?

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 So what is orthodoxy?

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 Orthodoxy is,

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 doxy, right,

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 is belief or even worship, right?

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 Ortho is the worship

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 that's in line with,

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 in line with what?

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 In line with the scriptures

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 and what the church

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 has proclaimed the scriptures

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 to teach, right?

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 So,

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 all departures

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 from the orthodox doctrine

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 of the person of Christ

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 are simply variations

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 of one of these heresies.

00:09:04.179 --> 00:09:04.419
 Okay,

00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:05.279
 so this will be some fun.

00:09:05.379 --> 00:09:05.659
 Let's look,

00:09:05.659 --> 00:09:06.579
 let's look at some of these

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 and let's figure out

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 the edges of the sandbox,

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 right?

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 So, let's think about

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 heresies or errors

00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:14.860
 concerning Christ's deity.

00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:16.780
 Can I ask something

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 before we even start this?

00:09:18.560 --> 00:09:19.280
 Quickly, Richard,

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 because otherwise

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 I'll run out of time.

00:09:21.160 --> 00:09:21.500
 Go ahead.

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 This is a primary issue, right?

00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:25.440
 This is not a secondary

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 or tertiary issue.

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 Yes,

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 but we will see

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 as we get into this

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 that some of the distinctions

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 we're making

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 are very fine.

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 So,

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 we do want to have grace

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 if someone maybe

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 doesn't use the exact language

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 that we do

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 or maybe is just

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 prone to misunderstanding.

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 This is one of those doctrines

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 where

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 we have to be gracious

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 as one other.

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 But,

00:09:48.580 --> 00:09:49.820
 with that being said,

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 the short answer

00:09:51.580 --> 00:09:51.980
 to your question,

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 Richard,

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 is yes,

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 this is a primary doctrine.

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 To deny

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 the full humanity

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 or the full deity

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 of Christ

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 takes you outside

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 of

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 the realm

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 of Christianity.

00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:02.300
 Right?

00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:03.360
 You've stumbled

00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:04.220
 into something else.

00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:04.920
 Yeah.

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 So,

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 okay,

00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:09.220
 heresies regarding

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 Christ's deity.

00:10:17.620 --> 00:10:18.080
 Hey,

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 that looks pretty,

00:10:18.680 --> 00:10:19.600
 that's readable, right?

00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:20.420
 I'm getting better.

00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:21.300
 Yeah,

00:10:21.400 --> 00:10:22.180
 so the first,

00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:23.680
 the first one

00:10:23.680 --> 00:10:24.540
 is what we might call,

00:10:24.980 --> 00:10:25.259
 well,

00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:25.940
 what's been called

00:10:25.940 --> 00:10:26.580
 historically,

00:10:27.420 --> 00:10:28.019
 Evianism.

00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:30.600
 Okay,

00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:31.320
 so what does Evianism?

00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:32.340
 Evianism is basically,

00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:33.300
 and this cropped up

00:10:33.300 --> 00:10:34.300
 very early in the church,

00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:35.800
 was basically the belief

00:10:35.800 --> 00:10:36.960
 that Jesus was merely human.

00:10:37.460 --> 00:10:38.780
 He wasn't God.

00:10:39.340 --> 00:10:40.600
 He wasn't fully God.

00:10:41.259 --> 00:10:41.660
 However,

00:10:41.860 --> 00:10:42.680
 Jesus was,

00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:43.580
 he was the,

00:10:43.660 --> 00:10:44.800
 he was the human Messiah.

00:10:45.259 --> 00:10:46.720
 God was active in him.

00:10:46.800 --> 00:10:48.259
 His power was active in him

00:10:48.259 --> 00:10:48.460
 to,

00:10:48.580 --> 00:10:50.300
 to a superlative degree.

00:10:52.060 --> 00:10:52.460
 But,

00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:53.400
 but he wasn't God.

00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:54.660
 We just saw in him

00:10:54.660 --> 00:10:56.580
 humanity come fully alive

00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:57.519
 with the power of God,

00:10:57.580 --> 00:10:57.759
 right?

00:10:58.379 --> 00:10:58.720
 Now,

00:10:58.780 --> 00:10:59.040
 of course,

00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:00.060
 the church very early on

00:11:00.060 --> 00:11:00.220
 said,

00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:00.580
 no,

00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:00.720
 no,

00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:00.840
 no,

00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:01.759
 that's a departure

00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:03.560
 from what Jesus himself

00:11:03.560 --> 00:11:04.100
 taught us,

00:11:04.259 --> 00:11:04.800
 who he was,

00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:05.980
 and what we believe him to be.

00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:08.920
 A sort of variation of this

00:11:08.920 --> 00:11:12.639
 is called adoptionism.

00:11:13.700 --> 00:11:14.100
 Stop,

00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:14.860
 whoops,

00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:15.840
 shun,

00:11:17.180 --> 00:11:18.200
 ism,

00:11:18.540 --> 00:11:19.180
 adoptionism.

00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:19.680
 So,

00:11:19.779 --> 00:11:20.259
 adoptionism,

00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:21.040
 if you run across that

00:11:21.040 --> 00:11:22.879
 in conversations about Christology,

00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:24.360
 is basically saying that,

00:11:24.940 --> 00:11:26.540
 so Jesus was born as if,

00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:27.240
 he was fully human

00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:27.920
 when he was born.

00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:29.240
 There was nothing kind of

00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:30.980
 ontologically special about him,

00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:32.759
 but at a certain moment

00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:33.399
 in his life,

00:11:34.539 --> 00:11:35.639
 God came upon him.

00:11:36.299 --> 00:11:36.980
 A lot of times,

00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:38.180
 they'll say at his baptism,

00:11:38.299 --> 00:11:39.220
 at his baptism,

00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:41.620
 the Christ came upon him,

00:11:41.899 --> 00:11:42.580
 and at that moment,

00:11:42.659 --> 00:11:43.519
 he became

00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:45.860
 something greater than human.

00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:48.279
 And then he did his earthly ministry

00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:48.820
 that way,

00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:49.919
 and then oftentimes,

00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:51.060
 adoptionism will say,

00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:52.980
 but then the Christ left him,

00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:53.460
 right?

00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:55.660
 usually somewhere around

00:11:55.660 --> 00:11:56.519
 his crucifixion,

00:11:57.160 --> 00:11:57.420
 right?

00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:58.120
 Now,

00:11:58.160 --> 00:11:58.720
 you can see that

00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:00.980
 that gets way far out

00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:02.519
 from what the New Testament

00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:02.920
 taught,

00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:03.460
 right?

00:12:04.820 --> 00:12:05.720
 But both of these

00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:07.360
 were ways of trying to say,

00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:07.560
 like,

00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:07.700
 well,

00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:09.379
 we know God can't become

00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:10.160
 a human being,

00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:10.500
 right?

00:12:11.300 --> 00:12:12.259
 It was kind of working

00:12:12.259 --> 00:12:13.680
 with this prior philosophical

00:12:13.680 --> 00:12:14.780
 assumption that God

00:12:14.780 --> 00:12:15.660
 can't become a human,

00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:17.940
 so how do we make sense of it,

00:12:18.019 --> 00:12:18.200
 right?

00:12:18.540 --> 00:12:19.180
 But both of these

00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:19.820
 were out of bounds,

00:12:19.900 --> 00:12:20.100
 right?

00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:21.940
 Because they really just deny

00:12:21.940 --> 00:12:23.820
 what we talked about last week,

00:12:23.899 --> 00:12:25.000
 that Jesus was fully God.

00:12:26.420 --> 00:12:26.820
 Okay,

00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:28.240
 those are kind of easy to spot,

00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:28.899
 right?

00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:31.180
 There was a second one

00:12:31.180 --> 00:12:31.840
 that denied

00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:33.320
 Christ's deity,

00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:35.340
 although this one

00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:36.500
 was a bit more sophisticated.

00:12:39.779 --> 00:12:40.779
 And this one goes under

00:12:40.779 --> 00:12:41.759
 the name of Arianism.

00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:42.399
 Okay,

00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:43.820
 in the early 4th century,

00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:45.519
 there was an

00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:47.420
 Alexandrian presbyter,

00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:48.060
 sort of elder,

00:12:48.180 --> 00:12:48.899
 leader in the church,

00:12:49.220 --> 00:12:50.080
 named Arius.

00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:52.600
 who was a very smart guy,

00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:53.980
 and a lot of people

00:12:53.980 --> 00:12:54.500
 liked him.

00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:55.600
 And he was even

00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:56.340
 a songwriter.

00:12:58.360 --> 00:12:58.840
 And,

00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:00.720
 because we know,

00:13:00.820 --> 00:13:01.019
 right,

00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:01.980
 because we know

00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:03.740
 that God is one,

00:13:04.300 --> 00:13:05.560
 and God is eternal,

00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:06.879
 and God

00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:08.500
 is majestic,

00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:09.180
 right?

00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:10.720
 Surely,

00:13:10.899 --> 00:13:11.580
 that one

00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:12.000
 awesome,

00:13:12.139 --> 00:13:13.040
 majestic God,

00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:13.500
 right,

00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:15.160
 can't,

00:13:15.700 --> 00:13:16.639
 there can't be

00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:17.379
 two of them,

00:13:17.940 --> 00:13:18.240
 right?

00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:19.180
 And that one

00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:19.420
 awesome,

00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:19.980
 majestic God

00:13:19.980 --> 00:13:20.320
 can't,

00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:20.480
 like,

00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:21.480
 become a human

00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:21.940
 being.

00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:23.220
 So,

00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:24.220
 what do we believe,

00:13:24.300 --> 00:13:24.420
 then,

00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:25.200
 about the Son?

00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:27.200
 Even about the

00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:27.920
 eternal Son?

00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:29.320
 So,

00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:30.100
 now,

00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:31.440
 let me take a step back.

00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:32.759
 Everything I'm telling you

00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:34.019
 about the history of these

00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:35.379
 is very truncated,

00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:36.779
 and the story's way more

00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:37.279
 complicated,

00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:38.460
 but I'm just giving you

00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:38.840
 the overview.

00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:39.280
 So,

00:13:39.280 --> 00:13:39.980
 if you hear someone say,

00:13:40.060 --> 00:13:40.399
 well,

00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:41.320
 it's a little more like this,

00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:41.480
 yeah,

00:13:41.540 --> 00:13:42.240
 there's nuance here,

00:13:42.300 --> 00:13:42.840
 but I'm going to give you

00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:43.480
 the broad outline.

00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:44.899
 So,

00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:45.379
 basically,

00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:46.420
 Arius and his followers

00:13:46.420 --> 00:13:48.100
 began to teach that

00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:50.040
 the word that John

00:13:50.040 --> 00:13:50.800
 talks about

00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:52.220
 was actually

00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:53.060
 the highest

00:13:53.060 --> 00:13:53.980
 and best

00:13:53.980 --> 00:13:55.120
 and first

00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:56.780
 created being,

00:13:57.300 --> 00:13:58.660
 that the word

00:13:58.660 --> 00:13:59.660
 had a beginning.

00:13:59.659 --> 00:14:02.019
 and Arius

00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:02.600
 and his followers

00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:03.980
 actually wrote songs

00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:05.639
 for worship,

00:14:05.939 --> 00:14:07.360
 and one of the great

00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:08.799
 choruses was,

00:14:09.259 --> 00:14:10.100
 there was a time

00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:11.299
 when the word was not.

00:14:12.839 --> 00:14:13.319
 Interesting,

00:14:13.459 --> 00:14:13.639
 right?

00:14:14.339 --> 00:14:15.039
 Imagine singing

00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:15.600
 that one in church.

00:14:15.699 --> 00:14:17.120
 There was a time

00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:18.000
 when the word

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:18.579
 was not.

00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:23.539
 You were not the word

00:14:23.539 --> 00:14:24.360
 in the beginning.

00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:25.079
 Right?

00:14:25.939 --> 00:14:26.339
 So,

00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:28.360
 but you can see

00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:29.120
 how

00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.779
 that sort of

00:14:31.779 --> 00:14:32.539
 makes sense,

00:14:32.860 --> 00:14:33.200
 right?

00:14:33.620 --> 00:14:34.740
 There's one God

00:14:34.740 --> 00:14:35.759
 and God creates

00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:36.779
 this superhuman being

00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:37.220
 and it's through

00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:38.519
 that sort of

00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:39.060
 ultra,

00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:40.860
 super,

00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:42.460
 first created being

00:14:42.460 --> 00:14:42.820
 that he does

00:14:42.820 --> 00:14:43.360
 everything else.

00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:43.940
 Right?

00:14:45.379 --> 00:14:46.379
 But again,

00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:47.560
 that sort of

00:14:47.560 --> 00:14:48.179
 makes Jesus

00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:50.159
 mostly God,

00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:51.940
 but not God.

00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:52.580
 Right?

00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:53.980
 He's actually

00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:55.019
 not God.

00:14:56.180 --> 00:14:57.159
 And here's how

00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:58.180
 it started to come down.

00:14:58.979 --> 00:14:59.639
 And this was what,

00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:01.299
 there was a council

00:15:01.299 --> 00:15:01.759
 that was called

00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:02.399
 by the church,

00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:03.579
 Council of Nicaea

00:15:03.579 --> 00:15:04.599
 in 325,

00:15:05.339 --> 00:15:06.039
 because this

00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:07.459
 controversy raged

00:15:07.459 --> 00:15:07.919
 for many,

00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:08.120
 many,

00:15:08.199 --> 00:15:08.699
 many years

00:15:08.699 --> 00:15:09.739
 and it continued

00:15:09.739 --> 00:15:10.159
 to rage

00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:10.479
 for many,

00:15:10.599 --> 00:15:10.979
 many years.

00:15:11.579 --> 00:15:12.419
 And there was a man

00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:13.620
 named Athanasius,

00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:14.179
 who was a great hero

00:15:14.179 --> 00:15:14.699
 of the faith,

00:15:14.959 --> 00:15:15.859
 who fought this battle.

00:15:16.699 --> 00:15:18.359
 And late in the new year,

00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:19.299
 later in the new year,

00:15:19.339 --> 00:15:19.659
 in the spring,

00:15:19.699 --> 00:15:20.419
 we're going to look at

00:15:20.419 --> 00:15:21.459
 more of this in detail.

00:15:21.460 --> 00:15:23.660
 But it came down

00:15:23.660 --> 00:15:24.080
 to this.

00:15:25.180 --> 00:15:26.040
 Is Jesus,

00:15:28.259 --> 00:15:35.480
 you're going to like this,

00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:36.019
 this is good.

00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:38.800
 Is Jesus

00:15:38.800 --> 00:15:40.139
 homoiosios?

00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:41.700
 Or is he

00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:42.920
 homoiosios?

00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:43.740
 Ah,

00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:45.820
 this little letter

00:15:45.820 --> 00:15:46.340
 right here

00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:47.519
 is the Greek letter

00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:48.040
 iota.

00:15:48.920 --> 00:15:50.000
 It's like our I.

00:15:52.340 --> 00:15:52.899
 Blood wish,

00:15:53.019 --> 00:15:53.519
 not blood wish,

00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:53.879
 literally,

00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:55.080
 but controversies

00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.680
 raged over this letter

00:15:56.680 --> 00:15:58.500
 because the difference

00:15:58.500 --> 00:15:59.180
 between this word

00:15:59.180 --> 00:15:59.780
 and this word,

00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:01.180
 if you know Greek,

00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:02.980
 is homoiosios

00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:05.820
 is similar in being.

00:16:07.060 --> 00:16:08.019
 Really alike.

00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:10.220
 Oosios is just being.

00:16:11.019 --> 00:16:12.200
 But homoosios

00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.440
 is insane.

00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:17.420
 The same in being.

00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:19.000
 Now,

00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:21.620
 in writing,

00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:22.800
 that's not a big difference,

00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:23.100
 is it?

00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:24.520
 One little I.

00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:26.420
 But in meaning,

00:16:26.900 --> 00:16:28.300
 it's a world of difference.

00:16:29.780 --> 00:16:31.140
 That Jesus isn't just

00:16:31.140 --> 00:16:32.520
 mostly like God,

00:16:32.880 --> 00:16:34.000
 he's fully God.

00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:35.880
 Homoiosios,

00:16:35.900 --> 00:16:37.820
 of one same nature

00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:38.560
 with the Father.

00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:40.240
 And at the Council of Nicaea,

00:16:40.300 --> 00:16:41.240
 that's what they will affirm.

00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:44.220
 This is from

00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:45.080
 the Council of Nicaea,

00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:45.759
 I believe in

00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:47.639
 one Lord Jesus Christ,

00:16:48.060 --> 00:16:48.800
 the only begotten

00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:49.560
 Son of the Father,

00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:51.139
 born of the Father

00:16:51.139 --> 00:16:52.660
 before all ages.

00:16:53.280 --> 00:16:54.420
 There's an eternal

00:16:54.420 --> 00:16:55.680
 generation of the Son,

00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:56.920
 is what we're talking about.

00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:58.320
 There was no time

00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.420
 when the Son was not.

00:17:00.660 --> 00:17:01.520
 And then it goes on

00:17:01.520 --> 00:17:02.020
 to say this,

00:17:02.420 --> 00:17:03.280
 God from God,

00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:04.660
 speaking of Jesus the Son,

00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:05.680
 light from light,

00:17:06.100 --> 00:17:07.240
 true God from true God,

00:17:07.700 --> 00:17:08.200
 begotten,

00:17:08.380 --> 00:17:09.120
 not made,

00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:10.819
 consubstantial,

00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:12.640
 which is just the Latin phrase,

00:17:13.080 --> 00:17:13.660
 homoiosios,

00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:15.140
 of one nature,

00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:16.320
 of the same nature

00:17:16.320 --> 00:17:17.420
 with the Father.

00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:19.040
 Okay,

00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:20.080
 so here's one edge

00:17:20.080 --> 00:17:20.640
 of the sandbox,

00:17:20.800 --> 00:17:21.280
 Christ's deity.

00:17:22.600 --> 00:17:23.480
 He's not God,

00:17:23.740 --> 00:17:24.580
 he's mostly God.

00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:25.700
 Both of those are ruled out,

00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:26.500
 he's fully God,

00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:27.000
 right?

00:17:28.600 --> 00:17:29.000
 Okay,

00:17:29.380 --> 00:17:30.340
 what about when it comes

00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:31.160
 to Christ's humanity?

00:17:31.320 --> 00:17:32.640
 How does this start to cook

00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:33.780
 in the early church?

00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:40.619
 Well,

00:17:40.639 --> 00:17:41.180
 we talked about this

00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:41.920
 a couple weeks ago.

00:17:42.099 --> 00:17:43.339
 The first one that cropped up,

00:17:43.460 --> 00:17:44.660
 especially as the gospel

00:17:44.660 --> 00:17:45.839
 began to take root

00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:46.700
 in,

00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:51.480
 as the gospel began

00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.160
 to take root

00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.220
 in cultures,

00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:54.680
 docetism,

00:17:55.139 --> 00:17:58.059
 that were more heavily influenced

00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:00.359
 by Greek thought,

00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:01.079
 and again,

00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:01.720
 that was everywhere,

00:18:01.819 --> 00:18:02.420
 it wasn't just,

00:18:02.539 --> 00:18:02.740
 I mean,

00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:03.579
 there were plenty of Jews

00:18:03.579 --> 00:18:04.460
 who were heavily influenced

00:18:04.460 --> 00:18:05.140
 by Greek thought,

00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:06.140
 so you see this pretty early,

00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:07.900
 but where the kind of

00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:08.380
 Greek worldview

00:18:08.380 --> 00:18:10.299
 was more heavily in place,

00:18:10.779 --> 00:18:11.420
 you began to see

00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:12.740
 this thing crop up,

00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:13.259
 docetism.

00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:13.680
 Now,

00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:14.299
 what is docetism?

00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:14.839
 Docetism,

00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:15.700
 we talked about earlier,

00:18:15.819 --> 00:18:16.960
 is that Jesus only seemed

00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:17.579
 to be human.

00:18:18.019 --> 00:18:18.880
 He had the appearance

00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:19.500
 of being human,

00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.660
 but he wasn't actually human.

00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:21.160
 Now,

00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:21.799
 why would you believe

00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:22.539
 something like that?

00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:23.900
 Why would you believe

00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:25.299
 that Jesus is fully God

00:18:25.299 --> 00:18:26.140
 but not fully human?

00:18:26.779 --> 00:18:27.039
 Yeah,

00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:27.460
 Ivor,

00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:27.720
 go ahead.

00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.799
 It sure does,

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:31.299
 doesn't it?

00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:32.380
 Isn't it easier to believe

00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:33.640
 that God just kind of

00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:34.600
 showed up as an avatar,

00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:37.980
 but if you got close enough

00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:38.339
 to him,

00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:39.500
 your hand would go

00:18:39.500 --> 00:18:40.039
 straight through,

00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:40.420
 right?

00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:40.740
 Yeah.

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:41.079
 Yeah,

00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:43.660
 and also several religions

00:18:43.660 --> 00:18:44.420
 at the time

00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:46.140
 thought about avatars.

00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:46.579
 Mm-hmm.

00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:47.819
 Yeah,

00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:48.299
 that's right.

00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:48.620
 Yeah,

00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:49.019
 especially if you get

00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:49.720
 into Eastern religions,

00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:50.019
 right?

00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:50.799
 Yeah,

00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:51.240
 that's right.

00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:51.640
 That's right.

00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:51.900
 Yeah.

00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:54.220
 Part of else

00:18:54.220 --> 00:18:55.140
 what was going on here

00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:56.160
 is that in,

00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:56.660
 in,

00:18:56.779 --> 00:18:58.059
 in,

00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:58.819
 in a particularly

00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:00.500
 kind of Greek cast of mind,

00:19:00.700 --> 00:19:01.980
 in some of them anyway,

00:19:02.620 --> 00:19:03.380
 matter,

00:19:03.819 --> 00:19:04.819
 the material stuff

00:19:04.819 --> 00:19:05.500
 of the world,

00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:06.860
 was,

00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:07.880
 was negative,

00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:08.140
 right?

00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:08.579
 It was a kind of

00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:09.559
 a negative approach

00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:10.519
 to the material world,

00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:11.000
 right?

00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:12.120
 Why?

00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:12.440
 Well,

00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:13.799
 because matter's changing,

00:19:14.779 --> 00:19:16.940
 matter's painful,

00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:17.860
 right?

00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:18.680
 So,

00:19:19.100 --> 00:19:20.600
 some of the Greek worldview

00:19:20.600 --> 00:19:21.440
 had the idea that

00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:22.100
 what's the goal

00:19:22.100 --> 00:19:22.680
 of existence,

00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:23.079
 right?

00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:23.339
 Well,

00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:24.259
 the real goal of existence

00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:26.179
 is to get out of this shell

00:19:26.179 --> 00:19:27.799
 into the one,

00:19:27.879 --> 00:19:28.679
 into the eternal,

00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:29.240
 right?

00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:31.799
 You see that in Stoicism

00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:32.339
 especially,

00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:32.799
 right?

00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:33.639
 You know,

00:19:33.679 --> 00:19:34.619
 the goal is to sort of

00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:35.659
 get a piece of,

00:19:35.859 --> 00:19:36.779
 get to a place

00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:37.759
 of equanimity

00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:38.419
 in this life

00:19:38.419 --> 00:19:39.919
 so that when you die,

00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:40.799
 you're kind of absorbed

00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:41.459
 into the one,

00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:41.839
 right?

00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:44.459
 Sounds very Eastern

00:19:44.459 --> 00:19:45.259
 to our ears,

00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:45.619
 doesn't it?

00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:46.939
 Obviously,

00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:47.839
 the church rejected this.

00:19:47.980 --> 00:19:48.179
 No,

00:19:48.379 --> 00:19:49.579
 Jesus was fully human.

00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:49.980
 Why?

00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:51.399
 Because from a biblical worldview,

00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:52.220
 matter's good.

00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:53.159
 God created everything

00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:53.960
 and said it was good.

00:19:54.620 --> 00:19:54.920
 So,

00:19:54.980 --> 00:19:55.759
 there's nothing sort of

00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:57.400
 necessarily wrong

00:19:57.400 --> 00:19:58.360
 with his full humanity

00:19:58.360 --> 00:19:58.820
 besides,

00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:00.320
 look at the records

00:20:00.320 --> 00:20:00.880
 that we have.

00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.320
 Look at the apostolic witness

00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:03.259
 that we talked about

00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:03.840
 two weeks ago.

00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.200
 Jesus was fully human.

00:20:05.259 --> 00:20:06.100
 He was eating with them.

00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.100
 He was touching them,

00:20:07.320 --> 00:20:07.640
 right?

00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:09.720
 Can a spirit do these things?

00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:10.660
 The resurrected Christ

00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:11.200
 said to them.

00:20:11.900 --> 00:20:12.060
 Okay,

00:20:12.120 --> 00:20:12.920
 so that one was out.

00:20:13.800 --> 00:20:14.880
 The second one though,

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:15.279
 and again,

00:20:15.340 --> 00:20:16.259
 you kind of see the,

00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:17.839
 oh,

00:20:17.879 --> 00:20:18.700
 I'm going to spell this wrong.

00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:21.460
 I-N-A.

00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:21.819
 Ah.

00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:29.240
 This one was a little

00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:30.299
 more sophisticated though.

00:20:30.460 --> 00:20:30.839
 And this one,

00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:31.039
 man,

00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:31.379
 this one,

00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:32.960
 this one sounded

00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:34.140
 right on the surface.

00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:35.160
 It was kind of a clever,

00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:36.660
 Apollinarianism was a clever

00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:37.799
 solution to the problem,

00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:38.299
 right?

00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:40.259
 How is Jesus fully human

00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:41.200
 and fully divine

00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:42.180
 in one person?

00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:44.360
 So around 361,

00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:44.940
 so this would be about

00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:45.799
 40 years after the

00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:46.640
 Council of Nicaea,

00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:47.340
 right?

00:20:47.620 --> 00:20:48.920
 These two were pretty early on.

00:20:49.060 --> 00:20:49.880
 They kind of co-existed

00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:50.380
 and kept going,

00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:50.600
 right?

00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:52.620
 Arianism cropped up

00:20:52.620 --> 00:20:53.500
 early 4th century,

00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:54.460
 Apollinarianism kind of

00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:55.560
 mid to late 4th century.

00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:57.799
 Bishop of Laodicea

00:20:57.799 --> 00:20:59.240
 around 361,

00:21:00.120 --> 00:21:01.380
 Apollinarius,

00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:02.180
 I think is how you

00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:02.820
 would pronounce it,

00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:04.100
 said that,

00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:04.259
 hey,

00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:05.360
 Jesus clearly had

00:21:05.360 --> 00:21:06.519
 a fully human body.

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:07.779
 That's obvious,

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.259
 right?

00:21:09.340 --> 00:21:09.820
 But,

00:21:09.819 --> 00:21:12.419
 his soul

00:21:12.419 --> 00:21:13.679
 or his mind

00:21:13.679 --> 00:21:15.379
 was divine.

00:21:16.220 --> 00:21:17.319
 So that's how

00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:18.000
 God becomes

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:18.659
 fully human.

00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:19.679
 God,

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:20.679
 who we know,

00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:21.419
 the one God,

00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:22.359
 God is a spirit,

00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:22.659
 right?

00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:23.679
 Has no body.

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.079
 That spirit just comes down

00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:27.299
 and takes a human body.

00:21:28.419 --> 00:21:28.819
 Boom!

00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:29.379
 Done!

00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.679
 Solution solved,

00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:31.019
 right?

00:21:31.419 --> 00:21:32.619
 How easy is that?

00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:35.240
 You know,

00:21:35.299 --> 00:21:36.259
 I kind of joked about this

00:21:36.259 --> 00:21:36.819
 a couple weeks ago

00:21:36.819 --> 00:21:37.399
 when we talked about this.

00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:38.339
 This is sort of like,

00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:39.839
 this is sort of like

00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:40.980
 the earth suit approach

00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:42.459
 to Christology.

00:21:43.339 --> 00:21:44.339
 That just like

00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:45.299
 astronauts put on

00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:45.839
 a space suit

00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.699
 to go into space,

00:21:47.179 --> 00:21:49.039
 God put on an earth suit

00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:49.740
 to come to earth,

00:21:49.819 --> 00:21:50.019
 right?

00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:50.639
 And that earth suit

00:21:50.639 --> 00:21:51.480
 was his human body.

00:21:51.679 --> 00:21:52.500
 But everything going

00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:53.619
 on side of that human body

00:21:53.619 --> 00:21:54.059
 was God.

00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:57.039
 But wait a second.

00:21:57.779 --> 00:21:58.720
 This is what the church

00:21:58.720 --> 00:21:59.099
 is saying

00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:00.720
 as the teachings

00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:01.779
 of Apollinarius

00:22:01.779 --> 00:22:03.299
 start growing steam.

00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:07.519
 But when we read

00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:08.700
 the apostolic witness,

00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:10.779
 that's not what we see,

00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:11.099
 is it?

00:22:11.919 --> 00:22:12.899
 Do we not see

00:22:12.899 --> 00:22:13.779
 that Jesus has

00:22:13.779 --> 00:22:14.559
 a human mind

00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:16.059
 and a human soul

00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:17.779
 and even a human will,

00:22:17.919 --> 00:22:18.619
 which will become

00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:19.460
 a debate a little later

00:22:19.460 --> 00:22:20.119
 in church history?

00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:21.299
 Does Jesus have

00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:22.000
 a human will

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:22.500
 or is it just

00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:24.919
 God's will, right?

00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:27.980
 And think of it this way.

00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:29.180
 One of the things

00:22:29.180 --> 00:22:29.639
 we've been saying

00:22:29.639 --> 00:22:30.579
 over and over again

00:22:30.579 --> 00:22:31.119
 in this class

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:32.099
 on the person of Christ

00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:34.879
 is that the full humanity

00:22:34.879 --> 00:22:36.819
 and full deity of Christ

00:22:36.819 --> 00:22:37.599
 are so important.

00:22:37.719 --> 00:22:37.899
 Why?

00:22:37.959 --> 00:22:39.500
 For our salvation, right?

00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.319
 If God the Son

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.000
 doesn't assume it

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:44.879
 in the incarnation,

00:22:45.099 --> 00:22:46.240
 if he doesn't take it up

00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:46.819
 into himself,

00:22:47.179 --> 00:22:48.199
 then it's not going

00:22:48.199 --> 00:22:49.879
 to be redeemed, right?

00:22:50.719 --> 00:22:51.299
 And friends,

00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:53.179
 do our bodies need saving?

00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:55.879
 Yeah, the older I get,

00:22:55.939 --> 00:22:56.619
 the more I realize

00:22:56.619 --> 00:22:58.039
 our bodies need saving, right?

00:22:58.059 --> 00:22:59.079
 As I can, you know,

00:22:59.139 --> 00:23:00.139
 get a little creakier

00:23:00.139 --> 00:23:01.079
 and get a little older, right?

00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.220
 But let's push a little deeper.

00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:04.259
 Do not our minds

00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:06.059
 and our souls

00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:07.379
 also need saving?

00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:10.199
 If Jesus is going

00:23:10.199 --> 00:23:11.819
 to save us,

00:23:12.199 --> 00:23:13.500
 then he needs

00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:17.119
 a fully human nature,

00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:18.799
 not just a human body.

00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:20.659
 So both on account

00:23:20.659 --> 00:23:21.559
 of the scriptural witness

00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:22.619
 and the theological

00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:23.839
 implications of it,

00:23:24.259 --> 00:23:24.980
 Apollinarianism

00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:25.639
 was ruled out.

00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:27.199
 That no, no, no,

00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:28.960
 Jesus had a fully human mind

00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:29.480
 or soul

00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:31.600
 as well as a fully human body.

00:23:32.120 --> 00:23:33.779
 And that was at the Council

00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:35.079
 of Constantinople

00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:36.000
 in 381.

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:37.400
 So this would have been Nicaea

00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.140
 in 325

00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:42.319
 and this would have been

00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.440
 381, right?

00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:45.460
 Constantinople, 381.

00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:50.779
 Constantinople.

00:23:50.779 --> 00:23:50.980
 Constantinople.

00:23:55.420 --> 00:23:55.860
 Okay.

00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:58.160
 381.

00:23:58.620 --> 00:23:59.019
 Constantinople.

00:23:59.140 --> 00:23:59.420
 All right.

00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:01.440
 Well, how far have we gotten now

00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.100
 as we progress

00:24:03.100 --> 00:24:03.840
 through church history?

00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:04.600
 Okay.

00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:06.120
 Jesus is fully God

00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:07.019
 and Jesus is fully human.

00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:08.779
 We haven't gotten very far,

00:24:08.860 --> 00:24:09.120
 have we?

00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:11.360
 But look at where

00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:12.500
 the sandbox lies, right?

00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.259
 Good work was done

00:24:14.259 --> 00:24:16.160
 by our forebears

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.180
 in the faith, right?

00:24:17.619 --> 00:24:18.799
 We've defended Jesus'

00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.720
 full divinity, right?

00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:22.140
 We've also defended

00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:23.000
 his full humanity.

00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:24.059
 Okay.

00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:25.579
 So then,

00:24:25.779 --> 00:24:27.119
 the story continues

00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:31.500
 as we progress.

00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:31.940
 So,

00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:34.359
 we're in now

00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:35.240
 into the 5th century,

00:24:35.299 --> 00:24:36.279
 into the early 5th century.

00:24:37.900 --> 00:24:38.619
 Now these,

00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:40.059
 what I'm going to call these

00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:40.960
 are,

00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:45.279
 well,

00:24:45.419 --> 00:24:46.460
 let me write it this way.

00:24:46.940 --> 00:24:47.839
 These would be errors

00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:48.500
 concerning

00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:51.460
 the unity of Christ's person.

00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:01.039
 Okay.

00:25:01.179 --> 00:25:01.720
 If I,

00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:03.220
 if I abbreviate Christ

00:25:03.220 --> 00:25:03.720
 with an X,

00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:04.799
 that's not because I'm like

00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:05.539
 taking the Christ

00:25:05.539 --> 00:25:06.200
 out of Christmas.

00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.779
 X is a Greek letter,

00:25:08.900 --> 00:25:09.140
 chi,

00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:11.220
 which is how Jesus'

00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:12.340
 name starts in the Greek.

00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:13.240
 It's just shorthand.

00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:14.240
 It's an abbreviation.

00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:15.319
 It's not a deletion.

00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:17.559
 So,

00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:18.840
 the unity of Christ's person.

00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:19.400
 Ah,

00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:19.779
 okay.

00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:21.740
 First one that crops up

00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:22.319
 is in

00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:23.640
 the early 4th century

00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:25.880
 with a guy named Nestorius.

00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:28.319
 And what we're going to see

00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:28.880
 with these two

00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:29.220
 is that

00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:30.420
 there's a bit of a tragedy

00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:31.319
 in some of these stories

00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:31.680
 because

00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.600
 a lot of the names

00:25:33.600 --> 00:25:34.460
 under which

00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:35.500
 these two things

00:25:35.500 --> 00:25:36.460
 I'm going to talk about

00:25:36.460 --> 00:25:39.360
 get called,

00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:41.220
 so poor Nestorius,

00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:41.840
 right?

00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:43.940
 He was a very good preacher.

00:25:44.299 --> 00:25:45.480
 He was a very godly man,

00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:46.819
 but he got himself

00:25:46.819 --> 00:25:48.460
 into a lot of theological trouble.

00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.660
 And he actually got slandered

00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:52.240
 a lot for things

00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:52.860
 he didn't believe.

00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:55.140
 But what happened was

00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:56.299
 is as he struggled

00:25:56.299 --> 00:25:57.100
 to articulate

00:25:57.100 --> 00:25:58.480
 the unity of Christ's person,

00:25:59.500 --> 00:26:02.019
 it got a little messy.

00:26:02.019 --> 00:26:03.700
 And then,

00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:04.639
 what he believed

00:26:04.639 --> 00:26:05.019
 ended up,

00:26:05.619 --> 00:26:05.759
 what,

00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:06.160
 what,

00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:07.839
 the,

00:26:08.379 --> 00:26:09.519
 something got labeled

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:10.339
 with his name

00:26:10.339 --> 00:26:11.160
 that maybe he didn't

00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:12.259
 actually believe

00:26:12.259 --> 00:26:13.279
 when you dig down

00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:13.960
 into his writings.

00:26:14.180 --> 00:26:14.420
 But,

00:26:15.139 --> 00:26:16.519
 what it came to be called

00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:16.859
 was

00:26:16.859 --> 00:26:18.119
 Nestorianism.

00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:19.079
 Okay?

00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:25.039
 And what Nestorianism is,

00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:26.579
 is that

00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:28.259
 basically,

00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:29.139
 the way it gets

00:26:29.139 --> 00:26:30.079
 shorthanded is,

00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:32.579
 is that there's two persons.

00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:38.500
 And two natures.

00:26:43.579 --> 00:26:43.980
 Basically,

00:26:44.159 --> 00:26:44.339
 you've got,

00:26:44.419 --> 00:26:45.740
 you've got Jesus' humanity

00:26:45.740 --> 00:26:46.399
 and his divinity,

00:26:46.679 --> 00:26:48.460
 and it starts driving them apart.

00:26:49.899 --> 00:26:50.439
 That they,

00:26:50.919 --> 00:26:51.240
 that,

00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:51.579
 that,

00:26:51.659 --> 00:26:52.720
 that they're both kind of

00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:53.759
 almost protected

00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:54.460
 from one another.

00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:56.480
 Right?

00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:57.359
 That we don't want them

00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.039
 kind of commingling.

00:26:58.039 --> 00:26:59.700
 But you can see how

00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:00.500
 immediately this,

00:27:00.579 --> 00:27:02.059
 this becomes a nonsensical

00:27:02.059 --> 00:27:02.539
 proposition.

00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:03.039
 Right?

00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:03.940
 How can there be

00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:05.099
 two persons

00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:05.539
 within

00:27:05.539 --> 00:27:06.480
 Jesus?

00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:07.119
 Right?

00:27:11.379 --> 00:27:11.899
 So,

00:27:12.099 --> 00:27:13.220
 how this debate

00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:13.799
 got started

00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:14.559
 is very interesting

00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.279
 because

00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.460
 there was some debate

00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:18.139
 flying around

00:27:18.139 --> 00:27:18.940
 in the fourth century

00:27:18.940 --> 00:27:20.099
 of whether we should

00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:20.960
 call Mary

00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.180
 the theotokos,

00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.160
 the God-bearer.

00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:25.740
 Right?

00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:26.840
 Is it appropriate

00:27:26.840 --> 00:27:28.059
 to call Jesus

00:27:28.059 --> 00:27:29.400
 the mother of God?

00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:31.059
 The bearer of God?

00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:31.759
 Right?

00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:33.519
 Now,

00:27:33.579 --> 00:27:34.039
 I think today

00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:34.380
 in the church

00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:34.680
 we think,

00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:35.259
 well,

00:27:35.360 --> 00:27:35.600
 yeah,

00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:36.240
 of course,

00:27:36.340 --> 00:27:37.220
 because Jesus was fully God,

00:27:37.299 --> 00:27:38.259
 so she was the mother of God.

00:27:38.360 --> 00:27:39.120
 We were comfortable

00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:39.759
 saying with that.

00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:41.180
 But someone like Nestoria

00:27:41.180 --> 00:27:41.539
 says,

00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:43.000
 yeah,

00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:44.579
 but don't we need

00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:45.420
 to be careful there?

00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:47.720
 Did a human

00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:49.480
 like give birth

00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:51.079
 to the one true,

00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:52.860
 like the infinite God?

00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:53.240
 Right?

00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:54.660
 So suddenly

00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:55.759
 the mystery of the incarnation

00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:56.539
 starts pushing

00:27:56.539 --> 00:27:57.519
 against our language.

00:27:57.980 --> 00:27:59.100
 So Nestoria says things like,

00:27:59.200 --> 00:27:59.259
 well,

00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:00.900
 I'm fine with theotokos

00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:02.400
 as long as we quickly add

00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:03.720
 anthropotokos,

00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:05.140
 that she was the bearer

00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:05.480
 of a human.

00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:07.720
 But then it starts

00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:08.519
 to get squirrely,

00:28:08.620 --> 00:28:08.860
 right?

00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:09.880
 Well,

00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:12.640
 did that human person

00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.180
 Jesus

00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:14.519
 exist

00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.440
 before the incarnation?

00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:19.900
 Was there a pre-existing

00:28:19.900 --> 00:28:20.740
 human Jesus

00:28:20.740 --> 00:28:21.839
 before the word

00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:23.339
 became human?

00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:25.100
 In other words,

00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:28.100
 is there a human person

00:28:28.100 --> 00:28:29.700
 and a divine person

00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:30.579
 that are somehow

00:28:30.579 --> 00:28:31.279
 being melded

00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:31.900
 in the incarnation?

00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:35.880
 And the answer to that

00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:36.440
 is no,

00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:37.980
 theologically,

00:28:38.420 --> 00:28:38.680
 right?

00:28:39.339 --> 00:28:40.620
 But these were the things

00:28:40.620 --> 00:28:41.059
 that were trying

00:28:41.059 --> 00:28:41.960
 to be guarded against

00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:43.680
 when the church came up

00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:44.620
 against Nestorianism.

00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:45.500
 Now,

00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:46.980
 here's why I say

00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:48.440
 I sort of have some

00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:49.880
 sympathy for Nestorius

00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:50.860
 because

00:28:50.860 --> 00:28:52.559
 I think

00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:53.860
 when you go back

00:28:53.860 --> 00:28:54.339
 and look at the

00:28:54.339 --> 00:28:55.279
 historical records,

00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:56.940
 there's a good case

00:28:56.940 --> 00:28:57.420
 to be made

00:28:57.420 --> 00:28:58.019
 that Nestorius

00:28:58.019 --> 00:28:59.059
 actually affirmed

00:28:59.059 --> 00:28:59.559
 what the church

00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:00.500
 would eventually affirm,

00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:01.640
 but he was just

00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:02.319
 struggling to find

00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:03.180
 the language for it.

00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:04.779
 He was struggling

00:29:04.779 --> 00:29:05.460
 to find the right

00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:06.319
 language for it,

00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:06.819
 right?

00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:09.160
 And there are

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:09.740
 some churches

00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:10.700
 today even

00:29:10.700 --> 00:29:13.259
 that sound

00:29:13.259 --> 00:29:14.200
 a little more

00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:14.819
 Nestorian

00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:15.360
 in how they

00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:15.860
 articulate

00:29:15.860 --> 00:29:16.400
 the person

00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:17.120
 of Christ,

00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:17.900
 right?

00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:18.960
 But I think

00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:19.299
 they're just

00:29:19.299 --> 00:29:19.980
 trying to find

00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:20.519
 language to

00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:20.940
 articulate

00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:21.860
 the inarticulable.

00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:23.600
 Okay.

00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:24.700
 Any questions

00:29:24.700 --> 00:29:25.180
 about Nestorius?

00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:25.799
 I know this is

00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:26.840
 quick and this

00:29:26.840 --> 00:29:27.200
 is probably

00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:28.039
 the most confusing

00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:28.819
 of all of them.

00:29:28.819 --> 00:29:30.899
 I usually think

00:29:30.899 --> 00:29:31.399
 of it as

00:29:31.399 --> 00:29:31.980
 two cats

00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:32.519
 in a bag.

00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:33.279
 Yeah.

00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:35.019
 Yeah.

00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:35.379
 Yeah.

00:29:35.439 --> 00:29:35.559
 Yeah.

00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:36.200
 That's right.

00:29:37.579 --> 00:29:41.419
 But this produces

00:29:41.419 --> 00:29:42.299
 like a schizophrenic

00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:42.599
 Jesus,

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:43.240
 right?

00:29:43.639 --> 00:29:44.000
 Well,

00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:44.859
 and here's the

00:29:44.859 --> 00:29:46.019
 theological problem.

00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:48.099
 Yeah.

00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:48.439
 Well,

00:29:48.679 --> 00:29:49.099
 go ahead.

00:29:49.139 --> 00:29:49.539
 We'll keep going.

00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:49.740
 Kim,

00:29:49.819 --> 00:29:49.939
 yeah,

00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:50.159
 go ahead.

00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:55.379
 In the Old Testament?

00:29:56.679 --> 00:29:57.039
 Oh,

00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:57.779
 can I have

00:29:57.779 --> 00:29:58.220
 pause on that

00:29:58.220 --> 00:29:58.579
 and can we talk

00:29:58.579 --> 00:29:59.079
 about that after

00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:00.220
 because it's

00:30:00.220 --> 00:30:01.500
 a yes,

00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:04.600
 but there's

00:30:04.600 --> 00:30:05.299
 both exegetical

00:30:05.299 --> 00:30:05.940
 things going on

00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:06.420
 there and

00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:07.160
 theological things

00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:07.559
 going on there,

00:30:07.600 --> 00:30:07.900
 but we'll talk

00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:08.120
 about them

00:30:08.120 --> 00:30:08.420
 afterwards.

00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:08.660
 Yeah.

00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:09.680
 Okay.

00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.079
 So this

00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:14.339
 kind of language

00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:15.079
 to talk about

00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:15.519
 the unity of

00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:15.920
 Christ's person

00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:16.279
 wasn't going to

00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:16.539
 fly,

00:30:16.860 --> 00:30:17.140
 right?

00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:18.720
 The other thing

00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:19.200
 that cropped up

00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:20.100
 in the wake

00:30:20.100 --> 00:30:20.539
 of kind of

00:30:20.539 --> 00:30:21.039
 this battle

00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:22.220
 against what

00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:22.660
 came to be

00:30:22.660 --> 00:30:23.880
 called Nestorianism,

00:30:26.420 --> 00:30:27.660
 oh,

00:30:27.740 --> 00:30:28.100
 by the way,

00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:29.000
 Council of

00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:29.420
 Ephesus

00:30:29.420 --> 00:30:36.539
 for,

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:36.960
 I think,

00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:37.279
 31,

00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:37.519
 right?

00:30:38.100 --> 00:30:38.420
 Yes,

00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:38.900
 431.

00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:39.420
 Okay.

00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:41.000
 So they get

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:41.339
 together,

00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:42.000
 they condemn

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:42.460
 this way of

00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:43.299
 articulating the

00:30:43.299 --> 00:30:43.539
 unity of

00:30:43.539 --> 00:30:43.860
 person of

00:30:43.860 --> 00:30:44.039
 Jesus,

00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:44.480
 the Council

00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:44.819
 of Ephesus

00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:45.380
 in 431.

00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:45.960
 In the wake

00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:46.360
 of that,

00:30:46.539 --> 00:30:47.039
 there's lots

00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:47.740
 of enthusiasm

00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:48.519
 to not divide

00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:48.920
 the person

00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:49.420
 of Christ,

00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:50.240
 and it gets

00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:50.680
 a little out

00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:51.140
 of hand

00:30:51.140 --> 00:30:52.039
 because there's

00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:52.480
 a formula

00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:53.339
 flying around

00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:54.299
 that kind of

00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:54.720
 gets dubbed

00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:55.339
 one nature,

00:30:55.539 --> 00:30:56.240
 like one nature

00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:56.900
 Christology.

00:30:57.500 --> 00:30:58.099
 The unity

00:30:58.099 --> 00:30:59.200
 of the person

00:30:59.200 --> 00:30:59.559
 of Christ

00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:01.039
 was so real

00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.240
 and so actual

00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:03.099
 that it's not

00:31:03.099 --> 00:31:03.500
 even right to

00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:03.740
 talk about

00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:04.240
 two natures,

00:31:04.299 --> 00:31:04.559
 we just talk

00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:05.319
 about one nature.

00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:06.579
 And again,

00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:07.120
 this is where

00:31:07.120 --> 00:31:07.880
 church history

00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:08.180
 is a bit

00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:08.579
 tragic.

00:31:10.460 --> 00:31:10.900
 Hold on,

00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:11.140
 I'm going to

00:31:11.140 --> 00:31:11.500
 spell this

00:31:11.500 --> 00:31:11.920
 wrong too.

00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:13.460
 U,

00:31:14.299 --> 00:31:15.799
 T-Y-C-H-E-S,

00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:15.940
 yeah,

00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:16.279
 that's it.

00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:20.819
 Eutychus

00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:25.259
 was an older

00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:26.839
 kind of head

00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:27.720
 of a monastery

00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:29.599
 and he kind

00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:29.980
 of gets pulled

00:31:29.980 --> 00:31:30.379
 into this

00:31:30.379 --> 00:31:31.000
 controversy,

00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:32.299
 again,

00:31:32.500 --> 00:31:33.180
 maybe not as

00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:33.859
 clear of a

00:31:33.859 --> 00:31:34.519
 thinker or as

00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:35.420
 careful of an

00:31:35.420 --> 00:31:36.059
 articulator,

00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:37.259
 and he says

00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:37.839
 things like

00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.279
 that after

00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.139
 his birth,

00:31:41.859 --> 00:31:42.500
 Jesus only

00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:43.180
 possessed

00:31:43.180 --> 00:31:44.619
 one nature,

00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:46.139
 that of

00:31:46.139 --> 00:31:47.519
 God made

00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:47.859
 flesh,

00:31:48.259 --> 00:31:48.859
 right?

00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:50.899
 So this

00:31:50.899 --> 00:31:51.399
 starts to

00:31:51.399 --> 00:31:51.979
 develop into

00:31:51.979 --> 00:31:52.579
 the view

00:31:52.579 --> 00:31:54.039
 where the

00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:54.799
 humanity of

00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.500
 Jesus and

00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:56.979
 the divinity

00:31:56.979 --> 00:31:57.719
 of Jesus

00:31:57.719 --> 00:31:58.939
 sort of

00:31:58.939 --> 00:31:59.619
 create this

00:31:59.619 --> 00:32:00.699
 third thing,

00:32:01.339 --> 00:32:03.539
 this like

00:32:03.539 --> 00:32:05.479
 new

00:32:05.479 --> 00:32:06.439
 nature,

00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:09.899
 right?

00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:10.379
 So it's

00:32:10.379 --> 00:32:10.619
 like

00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:17.239
 right?

00:32:18.139 --> 00:32:18.719
 They like

00:32:18.719 --> 00:32:19.500
 come together

00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:19.799
 to create

00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:20.379
 something new,

00:32:21.019 --> 00:32:21.579
 a third

00:32:21.579 --> 00:32:22.019
 thing.

00:32:22.879 --> 00:32:23.539
 Mixing red

00:32:23.539 --> 00:32:23.959
 and blue

00:32:23.959 --> 00:32:24.639
 makes purple.

00:32:25.059 --> 00:32:25.399
 Exactly,

00:32:25.719 --> 00:32:25.879
 yeah,

00:32:25.919 --> 00:32:26.000
 yeah,

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:26.159
 yeah,

00:32:26.159 --> 00:32:26.659
 or you have

00:32:26.659 --> 00:32:27.099
 water,

00:32:27.419 --> 00:32:27.859
 you have

00:32:27.859 --> 00:32:28.299
 water,

00:32:28.419 --> 00:32:28.759
 and you

00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:29.239
 have ink,

00:32:29.679 --> 00:32:30.039
 and you

00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:30.599
 drip the

00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:30.899
 ink into

00:32:30.899 --> 00:32:31.339
 the water,

00:32:31.539 --> 00:32:31.759
 and the

00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:32.179
 whole thing

00:32:32.179 --> 00:32:32.399
 kind of

00:32:32.399 --> 00:32:32.679
 becomes

00:32:32.679 --> 00:32:33.019
 something

00:32:33.019 --> 00:32:33.399
 else,

00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:34.039
 right?

00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:37.019
 Eutychianism,

00:32:37.219 --> 00:32:38.399
 which is

00:32:38.399 --> 00:32:39.059
 sort of a

00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:40.159
 confusion,

00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:40.740
 or a

00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:41.200
 combination

00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:42.000
 of the

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:42.519
 natures,

00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:43.440
 right?

00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:45.960
 Now,

00:32:46.540 --> 00:32:47.740
 why,

00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.120
 when the

00:32:48.120 --> 00:32:48.560
 church started

00:32:48.560 --> 00:32:48.960
 to think

00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:49.740
 about this,

00:32:50.060 --> 00:32:50.400
 did it

00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:50.840
 start to

00:32:50.840 --> 00:32:51.120
 get

00:32:51.120 --> 00:32:51.920
 uncomfortable,

00:32:52.080 --> 00:32:52.259
 do you

00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:52.540
 think,

00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:54.700
 given what

00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:55.019
 we've talked

00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:55.240
 about in

00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:55.580
 this class

00:32:55.580 --> 00:32:55.980
 so far?

00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:56.300
 Well,

00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:57.580
 our nature

00:32:57.580 --> 00:32:58.460
 is not

00:32:58.460 --> 00:32:59.060
 a fusion

00:32:59.060 --> 00:32:59.900
 of two

00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:00.380
 nations.

00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:01.360
 Yep,

00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:01.900
 that's right.

00:33:01.940 --> 00:33:02.660
 Who is he

00:33:02.660 --> 00:33:03.100
 redeeming?

00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:03.400
 Who is

00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:03.700
 Christ?

00:33:03.840 --> 00:33:04.320
 Ah,

00:33:04.700 --> 00:33:05.380
 yes,

00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:05.740
 well,

00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:06.980
 that's right,

00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:07.200
 yeah,

00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:09.060
 who is

00:33:09.060 --> 00:33:09.880
 Jesus redeeming

00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:10.220
 in this

00:33:10.220 --> 00:33:10.760
 new

00:33:10.760 --> 00:33:11.440
 third

00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:12.320
 thing?

00:33:13.520 --> 00:33:13.920
 Anybody

00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:14.220
 else want

00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:14.420
 to add

00:33:14.420 --> 00:33:14.760
 to that?

00:33:15.040 --> 00:33:15.420
 It sort

00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:15.860
 of seems,

00:33:16.220 --> 00:33:16.580
 what is

00:33:16.580 --> 00:33:17.000
 he now?

00:33:17.580 --> 00:33:17.880
 And who

00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:18.100
 is he

00:33:18.100 --> 00:33:18.440
 saving?

00:33:19.020 --> 00:33:19.240
 Yeah,

00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:19.940
 anyone else

00:33:19.940 --> 00:33:20.160
 want to

00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:20.600
 jump in?

00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:20.960
 Why is

00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:22.000
 this kind

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:22.780
 of mixture

00:33:22.780 --> 00:33:23.080
 of the

00:33:23.080 --> 00:33:23.340
 nature

00:33:23.340 --> 00:33:23.720
 something

00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:24.600
 that feels

00:33:24.600 --> 00:33:25.200
 problematic

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:25.680
 to the

00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.180
 church,

00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:26.520
 you think?

00:33:30.420 --> 00:33:30.820
 Yeah,

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:31.280
 he's not

00:33:31.280 --> 00:33:31.820
 God anymore.

00:33:32.020 --> 00:33:32.400
 What is

00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:32.560
 he?

00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:33.340
 He's not

00:33:33.340 --> 00:33:34.020
 human anymore,

00:33:34.220 --> 00:33:34.540
 and he's not

00:33:34.540 --> 00:33:35.080
 God anymore.

00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:35.680
 He's like,

00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:39.299
 what did

00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:39.539
 you say?

00:33:40.120 --> 00:33:40.560
 Alien,

00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:40.900
 yeah,

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:41.320
 he's got

00:33:41.320 --> 00:33:43.200
 this new

00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:43.700
 thing,

00:33:43.779 --> 00:33:44.000
 right?

00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:44.840
 Yeah,

00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:47.160
 this is

00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:47.820
 exactly right.

00:33:48.100 --> 00:33:48.539
 So when the

00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:48.940
 church really

00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:49.340
 started to

00:33:49.340 --> 00:33:49.640
 think about

00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:49.820
 this,

00:33:49.860 --> 00:33:50.120
 they thought,

00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:50.279
 well,

00:33:50.340 --> 00:33:50.519
 then,

00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:50.880
 well,

00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:51.180
 goodness,

00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:51.740
 Jesus is

00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:52.259
 neither human

00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:52.799
 nor divine,

00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.220
 but something

00:33:53.220 --> 00:33:53.779
 else altogether,

00:33:54.779 --> 00:33:56.920
 and that

00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:57.680
 means he

00:33:57.680 --> 00:33:58.380
 can't do

00:33:58.380 --> 00:33:58.560
 what he

00:33:58.560 --> 00:33:58.840
 came to

00:33:58.840 --> 00:33:59.160
 do,

00:34:00.019 --> 00:34:00.299
 right?

00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:00.820
 He can't

00:34:00.820 --> 00:34:01.320
 actually save

00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:01.640
 us because

00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:01.940
 he's not

00:34:01.940 --> 00:34:02.480
 us anymore.

00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:03.120
 He's something

00:34:03.120 --> 00:34:03.680
 else altogether,

00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:04.440
 right?

00:34:05.860 --> 00:34:06.340
 Now,

00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:06.740
 again,

00:34:06.860 --> 00:34:07.259
 here's where

00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:07.580
 I want to

00:34:07.580 --> 00:34:08.740
 be maybe

00:34:08.740 --> 00:34:10.440
 charitable to

00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.360
 our forebears

00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:12.940
 in the faith,

00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:13.480
 right?

00:34:13.900 --> 00:34:14.800
 Can you see

00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:15.920
 how Nestorius

00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:17.460
 or even

00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:18.220
 Nestorianism

00:34:18.220 --> 00:34:19.539
 and Eutychism

00:34:19.539 --> 00:34:20.400
 or Eutychianism,

00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:21.539
 how they're

00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:22.500
 trying to hold

00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:23.000
 two things

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:23.400
 together,

00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:23.840
 but maybe

00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:24.619
 falling off

00:34:24.619 --> 00:34:25.139
 either end

00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:25.720
 of the cliff,

00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:26.099
 right?

00:34:26.740 --> 00:34:27.260
 Because what

00:34:27.260 --> 00:34:27.659
 we want to

00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:29.039
 do is we

00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:29.320
 want to

00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:30.180
 hold together

00:34:30.180 --> 00:34:31.240
 he's fully

00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:31.659
 human and

00:34:31.659 --> 00:34:32.180
 fully divine,

00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:32.940
 but he's

00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:34.740
 not two

00:34:34.740 --> 00:34:35.139
 cats in

00:34:35.139 --> 00:34:35.559
 a bag,

00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:35.880
 right?

00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:36.720
 So we're

00:34:36.720 --> 00:34:37.039
 trying to

00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:37.400
 hold these

00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:38.039
 things together,

00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:38.740
 but you can

00:34:38.740 --> 00:34:39.300
 see how it's

00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:39.800
 easy to tip

00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:40.200
 off one

00:34:40.200 --> 00:34:41.340
 way or

00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:41.619
 to tip

00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:41.900
 off the

00:34:41.900 --> 00:34:42.139
 other,

00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:43.360
 to combine

00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:43.780
 the natures

00:34:43.780 --> 00:34:44.420
 together into

00:34:44.420 --> 00:34:45.240
 one person,

00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:46.139
 right?

00:34:46.179 --> 00:34:46.679
 One nature,

00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:47.300
 one person,

00:34:47.420 --> 00:34:48.539
 or two

00:34:48.539 --> 00:34:49.019
 natures in

00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:49.720
 two persons,

00:34:49.980 --> 00:34:50.200
 right?

00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:51.179
 So hard to

00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:51.519
 find that

00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:52.019
 balance,

00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:52.960
 the balance

00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:53.659
 that the

00:34:53.659 --> 00:34:54.780
 scriptures

00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:55.320
 present,

00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:55.700
 right?

00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:56.900
 That Jesus

00:34:56.900 --> 00:34:57.340
 is fully

00:34:57.340 --> 00:34:58.000
 human and

00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:58.420
 fully God,

00:34:58.480 --> 00:34:58.780
 but he is

00:34:58.780 --> 00:34:59.300
 one person,

00:34:59.659 --> 00:34:59.880
 right?

00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:02.019
 So how does

00:35:02.019 --> 00:35:02.400
 the church

00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:02.920
 try to sort

00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:03.400
 this out?

00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:04.880
 Well,

00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:05.660
 the short

00:35:05.660 --> 00:35:06.079
 story,

00:35:06.200 --> 00:35:06.720
 it goes,

00:35:08.059 --> 00:35:08.420
 that at the

00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:08.920
 Council of

00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:09.680
 Chalcedon,

00:35:09.680 --> 00:35:11.200
 this one's

00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:11.920
 Chalcedon,

00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:12.880
 sometimes you

00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:13.139
 hear it

00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:13.860
 Chalcedon,

00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:14.800
 Tyler,

00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:15.119
 what's your

00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:15.380
 preferred

00:35:15.380 --> 00:35:15.820
 pronunciation

00:35:15.820 --> 00:35:16.760
 of the

00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:17.019
 Council?

00:35:18.099 --> 00:35:18.619
 Chalcedon,

00:35:18.660 --> 00:35:19.039
 doesn't it?

00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:20.079
 Yeah,

00:35:20.300 --> 00:35:21.220
 yeah,

00:35:21.340 --> 00:35:21.860
 Chalcedon.

00:35:22.860 --> 00:35:23.519
 Where do I

00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:23.980
 write this?

00:35:24.180 --> 00:35:24.559
 I'll just

00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:24.860
 write it up

00:35:24.860 --> 00:35:25.019
 here.

00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:25.079
 Okay.

00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:25.180
 Okay.

00:35:25.180 --> 00:35:25.240
 Okay.

00:35:25.240 --> 00:35:25.740
 Okay.

00:35:25.740 --> 00:35:25.840
 Okay.

00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:25.860
 Okay.

00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:25.940
 Okay.

00:35:25.940 --> 00:35:26.840
 Okay.

00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:27.240
 Okay.

00:35:27.240 --> 00:35:27.840
 Okay.

00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:27.860
 Okay.

00:35:27.860 --> 00:35:27.980
 Okay.

00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:29.079
 Okay.

00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:29.180
 Okay.

00:35:29.180 --> 00:35:29.740
 Okay.

00:35:29.740 --> 00:35:30.019
 Okay.

00:35:30.019 --> 00:35:30.860
 Okay.

00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:31.019
 Okay.

00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:31.820
 Okay.

00:35:31.820 --> 00:35:35.660
 In 451,

00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:37.400
 so in 451,

00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:37.820
 the church has

00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:38.460
 another council

00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:39.700
 at Chalcedon

00:35:39.700 --> 00:35:41.280
 to try to hammer

00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:41.660
 out these

00:35:41.660 --> 00:35:42.420
 controversies that

00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:42.960
 we're developing.

00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:43.980
 So they're looking

00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:44.620
 back over the

00:35:44.620 --> 00:35:45.559
 last number of

00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:45.760
 years,

00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:46.380
 all the way back

00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:47.300
 to Apollinarianism,

00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:47.740
 actually,

00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:49.059
 Historianism,

00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:50.100
 Tuchianism,

00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:50.900
 and they're saying,

00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:51.120
 all right,

00:35:51.180 --> 00:35:51.680
 how are we going

00:35:51.680 --> 00:35:52.080
 to define,

00:35:52.200 --> 00:35:52.980
 how are we going

00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:53.620
 to define this

00:35:53.620 --> 00:35:54.220
 thing according

00:35:54.220 --> 00:35:54.640
 to scripture

00:35:54.640 --> 00:35:55.019
 and according

00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:55.400
 to what we

00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:56.380
 feel like the

00:35:56.380 --> 00:35:56.780
 church has

00:35:56.780 --> 00:35:57.220
 taught through

00:35:57.220 --> 00:35:57.680
 the years?

00:35:59.080 --> 00:36:00.340
 And this is

00:36:00.340 --> 00:36:01.160
 what's sometimes

00:36:01.160 --> 00:36:01.519
 called the

00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:02.059
 Chalcedonian

00:36:02.059 --> 00:36:03.380
 definition of

00:36:03.380 --> 00:36:04.159
 451.

00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:05.179
 And I'll read

00:36:05.179 --> 00:36:05.699
 this because

00:36:05.699 --> 00:36:06.759
 this is

00:36:06.759 --> 00:36:08.860
 really kind

00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:09.639
 of a high

00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:10.780
 watermark in

00:36:10.780 --> 00:36:11.259
 the church's

00:36:11.259 --> 00:36:11.699
 theological

00:36:11.699 --> 00:36:12.480
 development when

00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:12.920
 it comes to

00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:13.280
 the person

00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:13.739
 of Christ.

00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:15.239
 This is an

00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:15.820
 English translation

00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:16.199
 of it.

00:36:16.259 --> 00:36:16.360
 It says,

00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:17.079
 we then,

00:36:18.120 --> 00:36:18.599
 following the

00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:19.220
 Holy Fathers,

00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:20.760
 all with one

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:21.220
 consent,

00:36:22.220 --> 00:36:22.740
 teach men to

00:36:22.740 --> 00:36:23.920
 confess one

00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:24.980
 and the same

00:36:24.980 --> 00:36:25.360
 Son,

00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:26.340
 our Lord Jesus

00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:26.840
 Christ,

00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:28.099
 the same,

00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:29.340
 perfect in

00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:29.820
 Godhead,

00:36:30.160 --> 00:36:30.780
 and also

00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:31.400
 perfect in

00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:31.840
 manhood,

00:36:32.900 --> 00:36:33.620
 truly God

00:36:33.620 --> 00:36:34.680
 and truly man,

00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:36.220
 of a reasonable

00:36:36.220 --> 00:36:37.099
 soul and body,

00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:39.320
 consubstantial with

00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:39.660
 us,

00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:40.180
 right,

00:36:40.300 --> 00:36:42.000
 of the same

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:42.940
 nature as us,

00:36:42.940 --> 00:36:44.740
 consubstantial

00:36:44.740 --> 00:36:45.099
 with us

00:36:45.099 --> 00:36:45.599
 according to

00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.139
 the manhood,

00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:47.700
 in all things

00:36:47.700 --> 00:36:48.380
 like us

00:36:48.380 --> 00:36:49.720
 without sin,

00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:52.079
 begotten

00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:53.139
 before all

00:36:53.139 --> 00:36:53.760
 ages of the

00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:54.780
 Father according

00:36:54.780 --> 00:36:55.079
 to the

00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:55.559
 Godhead,

00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:57.360
 and in these

00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:58.280
 latter days for

00:36:58.280 --> 00:36:58.800
 us and for

00:36:58.800 --> 00:36:59.519
 our salvation,

00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:00.619
 born of the

00:37:00.619 --> 00:37:01.220
 Virgin Mary,

00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:02.300
 the mother of

00:37:02.300 --> 00:37:02.659
 God,

00:37:03.139 --> 00:37:03.760
 see how they

00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:04.300
 slip that in

00:37:04.300 --> 00:37:04.740
 there in these

00:37:04.740 --> 00:37:05.320
 controversies,

00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:06.760
 according to

00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:07.300
 the manhood.

00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:08.960
 And here's

00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:09.740
 the sentence

00:37:09.740 --> 00:37:10.720
 that will get

00:37:10.720 --> 00:37:11.440
 kind of remembered

00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:12.920
 most throughout

00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:13.340
 history.

00:37:14.220 --> 00:37:14.840
 One in the

00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:15.560
 same Christ,

00:37:15.720 --> 00:37:16.220
 Son,

00:37:16.560 --> 00:37:16.900
 Lord,

00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:17.980
 only begotten,

00:37:19.120 --> 00:37:19.960
 so one,

00:37:20.160 --> 00:37:20.340
 right,

00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:21.480
 to be acknowledged

00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:22.000
 in two

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:22.519
 natures,

00:37:24.160 --> 00:37:25.080
 inconfusably,

00:37:26.060 --> 00:37:26.920
 unchangeably,

00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:28.720
 indivisibly,

00:37:29.740 --> 00:37:30.500
 inseparably,

00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:32.180
 without confusion,

00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:33.940
 without change,

00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:35.580
 without division,

00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:37.100
 without separation.

00:37:38.300 --> 00:37:39.140
 The distinction

00:37:39.140 --> 00:37:39.680
 of natures

00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:40.400
 being by no

00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:40.900
 means taken

00:37:40.900 --> 00:37:41.480
 away by the

00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:41.740
 union.

00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:42.620
 The distinction

00:37:42.620 --> 00:37:43.420
 of the natures

00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:44.720
 being by no

00:37:44.720 --> 00:37:45.260
 means taken

00:37:45.260 --> 00:37:45.800
 away by the

00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:46.019
 union.

00:37:46.100 --> 00:37:46.380
 Who do they

00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:46.880
 have in the

00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.240
 eye there,

00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:47.519
 right?

00:37:47.620 --> 00:37:48.240
 The distinction

00:37:48.240 --> 00:37:48.960
 of the natures,

00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:49.180
 right?

00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:50.480
 But rather,

00:37:50.580 --> 00:37:51.300
 the property

00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:52.380
 of each being

00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:54.640
 preserved and

00:37:54.640 --> 00:37:56.660
 concurring in

00:37:56.660 --> 00:37:58.440
 one person and

00:37:58.440 --> 00:37:59.940
 one subsistence.

00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:00.200
 Okay,

00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:00.960
 subsistence.

00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:01.780
 This is sort

00:38:01.780 --> 00:38:02.660
 of technical,

00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:03.700
 that's a Latin

00:38:03.700 --> 00:38:05.340
 phrase, but the

00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:06.320
 Greek phrase there

00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:06.700
 would have been

00:38:06.699 --> 00:38:08.399
 hypostasis.

00:38:09.619 --> 00:38:10.379
 Sort of one,

00:38:10.879 --> 00:38:11.460
 again, they're

00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:12.579
 grappling for

00:38:12.579 --> 00:38:13.099
 language here.

00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:13.579
 Hypostasis

00:38:13.579 --> 00:38:14.059
 typically means

00:38:14.059 --> 00:38:14.819
 being, right?

00:38:15.339 --> 00:38:16.019
 One person,

00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:17.059
 one being,

00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:17.699
 right?

00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:18.399
 But two

00:38:18.399 --> 00:38:18.819
 natures,

00:38:19.259 --> 00:38:20.359
 not parted or

00:38:20.359 --> 00:38:21.119
 divided into

00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:21.839
 two persons,

00:38:22.299 --> 00:38:22.619
 there they're

00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:23.059
 glancing at

00:38:23.059 --> 00:38:23.500
 Nestorius,

00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:23.759
 right?

00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:25.060
 But one in

00:38:25.060 --> 00:38:25.740
 the same son

00:38:25.740 --> 00:38:26.640
 and only begotten,

00:38:26.980 --> 00:38:27.460
 God the

00:38:27.460 --> 00:38:28.200
 word, the

00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:28.580
 Lord Jesus

00:38:28.580 --> 00:38:30.140
 Christ, as the

00:38:30.140 --> 00:38:30.860
 prophets from the

00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:31.380
 beginning have

00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:32.300
 declared concerning

00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:33.660
 him, and the

00:38:33.660 --> 00:38:34.580
 Lord Jesus Christ

00:38:34.580 --> 00:38:35.920
 himself taught us,

00:38:36.560 --> 00:38:37.160
 and the creed of the

00:38:37.160 --> 00:38:38.160
 holy followers has

00:38:38.160 --> 00:38:39.060
 handed down to us.

00:38:40.160 --> 00:38:41.960
 Okay, there it is.

00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:43.440
 The definition of

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:43.880
 Chalcedon.

00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.280
 And again, note,

00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:48.760
 two natures, right?

00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:49.760
 One person, two

00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:50.420
 natures, and the two

00:38:50.420 --> 00:38:51.039
 natures are without

00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:52.220
 confusion, without

00:38:52.220 --> 00:38:53.640
 change, without

00:38:53.640 --> 00:38:55.019
 division, without

00:38:55.019 --> 00:38:55.640
 separation.

00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:57.539
 The property of each

00:38:57.539 --> 00:38:58.579
 nature being preserved

00:38:58.579 --> 00:38:59.840
 and concurring in one

00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:00.240
 person.

00:39:01.700 --> 00:39:02.780
 And as I mentioned,

00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:03.220
 that word

00:39:03.220 --> 00:39:04.280
 subsistence or

00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:06.880
 hypostasis gets

00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:08.019
 picked up in later

00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:08.880
 theological language.

00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:09.579
 So when we're

00:39:09.579 --> 00:39:10.140
 talking about this

00:39:10.140 --> 00:39:10.960
 whole idea, we're

00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:11.579
 talking about the

00:39:11.579 --> 00:39:12.900
 hypostatic union.

00:39:13.420 --> 00:39:14.300
 The hypostatic union.

00:39:16.720 --> 00:39:18.500
 Okay, well, what

00:39:18.500 --> 00:39:19.340
 did the Council of

00:39:19.340 --> 00:39:20.240
 Chalcedon do for

00:39:20.240 --> 00:39:20.559
 us?

00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:22.519
 Did it make any

00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:24.240
 progress towards

00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:24.840
 answering the

00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:26.720
 question, do you

00:39:26.720 --> 00:39:27.000
 think?

00:39:28.640 --> 00:39:29.900
 Do you hear me read

00:39:29.900 --> 00:39:30.420
 that and think,

00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:31.660
 mystery solved.

00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:34.500
 I've got it figured

00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:34.860
 out.

00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:35.800
 What do you think?

00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:37.099
 So, these other

00:39:37.099 --> 00:39:38.400
 two views, Nestorius

00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.200
 and Eudakis, they

00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:43.780
 obviously, historically

00:39:43.780 --> 00:39:47.519
 precede the decision

00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:48.240
 that the Council

00:39:48.240 --> 00:39:48.460
 of Chalcedon.

00:39:48.940 --> 00:39:49.440
 Yes, yes, yes.

00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:49.800
 That's right.

00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:51.500
 So Nestorianism, what

00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:52.099
 became known as

00:39:52.099 --> 00:39:53.820
 Nestorianism, was

00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.960
 denied in 431 in

00:39:57.960 --> 00:39:58.820
 Ephesus, right?

00:39:58.940 --> 00:39:59.599
 So, not that much

00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:00.380
 longer after, about

00:40:00.380 --> 00:40:01.619
 20 years later, right?

00:40:01.740 --> 00:40:02.740
 But it's all in the

00:40:02.740 --> 00:40:03.260
 same ballpark.

00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:04.559
 But yes, this is

00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:06.180
 after these debates

00:40:06.180 --> 00:40:07.119
 have been raging for

00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:08.000
 many years.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:09.320
 So, Chalcedon

00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:10.860
 merely adds another

00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:11.300
 option.

00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:15.179
 I wouldn't say

00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:15.900
 that.

00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:17.719
 Well, sure, it

00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:18.139
 depends.

00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:18.960
 It depends what you

00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.480
 mean by another

00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:20.400
 option, right?

00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:22.340
 It sounds like a

00:40:22.340 --> 00:40:22.719
 summary.

00:40:23.139 --> 00:40:23.800
 You're trying to make

00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:24.519
 sense of all the

00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:25.039
 other...

00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:25.739
 Yes, that's right.

00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:26.360
 That's right, yeah.

00:40:26.619 --> 00:40:27.179
 Yeah, what they're

00:40:27.179 --> 00:40:27.440
 doing...

00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:29.420
 Right, yeah.

00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:30.539
 What they're doing

00:40:30.539 --> 00:40:30.980
 at Chalcedon...

00:40:30.980 --> 00:40:32.159
 So, sometimes this

00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:32.820
 Chalcedonian

00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:34.300
 definition is sort of

00:40:34.300 --> 00:40:35.059
 disparaged.

00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:35.579
 It's like, well, it

00:40:35.579 --> 00:40:36.119
 doesn't really say

00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:36.359
 anything.

00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:36.900
 It sort of says

00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:37.380
 what we can't

00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:38.179
 say, right?

00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:39.279
 We can't say this,

00:40:39.319 --> 00:40:39.799
 we can't say this,

00:40:39.839 --> 00:40:40.480
 we can't say this.

00:40:41.059 --> 00:40:41.679
 And there is a

00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:42.159
 sense in which it

00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:42.779
 is saying that,

00:40:42.819 --> 00:40:43.019
 right?

00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:43.839
 Again, it is sort

00:40:43.839 --> 00:40:44.559
 of defining the

00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:45.139
 edges of the

00:40:45.139 --> 00:40:46.039
 sandbox wherein we

00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:46.420
 want to stay

00:40:46.420 --> 00:40:46.739
 within.

00:40:46.839 --> 00:40:47.480
 But it is making

00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:48.299
 some positive

00:40:48.299 --> 00:40:49.420
 statements, right?

00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:51.099
 And again, I think

00:40:51.099 --> 00:40:51.859
 they're scriptural

00:40:51.859 --> 00:40:52.559
 statements.

00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:53.699
 They're looking at

00:40:53.699 --> 00:40:54.239
 scripture and saying

00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:54.960
 this is what the

00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:55.699
 scriptures teach,

00:40:55.759 --> 00:40:56.000
 right?

00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:01.059
 that Jesus is

00:41:01.059 --> 00:41:02.320
 fully human and

00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:03.420
 fully God, right?

00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:05.219
 That these two

00:41:05.219 --> 00:41:06.239
 natures exist without

00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:07.099
 either one being

00:41:07.099 --> 00:41:08.300
 diluted or changed,

00:41:08.420 --> 00:41:08.659
 right?

00:41:08.739 --> 00:41:10.460
 So, it's helping to

00:41:10.460 --> 00:41:11.400
 keep us in this...

00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:12.380
 What Chalcedon is

00:41:12.380 --> 00:41:15.000
 doing, it's helping

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.000
 us stay in the

00:41:17.900 --> 00:41:18.840
 center of the

00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:19.659
 biblical revelation,

00:41:20.059 --> 00:41:20.300
 right?

00:41:20.860 --> 00:41:22.099
 Here, right?

00:41:22.539 --> 00:41:24.059
 What the scriptures

00:41:24.059 --> 00:41:24.460
 teach.

00:41:24.460 --> 00:41:26.820
 Oftentimes, we'll

00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:27.720
 end up straying out

00:41:27.720 --> 00:41:28.840
 of it because we're

00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:29.659
 uncomfortable with

00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:30.960
 the tension or the

00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.679
 mystery of it, right?

00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:34.880
 None of these

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:35.539
 squiggles have any

00:41:35.539 --> 00:41:36.000
 significance.

00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:36.539
 I'm just sort of

00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:37.220
 illustrating, right?

00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:40.920
 So, is it just sort

00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:42.039
 of another option on

00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:42.740
 the way?

00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:44.599
 Well, yes and no.

00:41:44.860 --> 00:41:46.000
 I think what it is,

00:41:46.059 --> 00:41:47.920
 it is an articulation

00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:48.780
 at a certain moment

00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:49.940
 in time, right?

00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:52.400
 But,

00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:56.019
 it's actually a

00:41:56.019 --> 00:41:56.480
 pretty good one.

00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:57.420
 It's a pretty faithful

00:41:57.420 --> 00:41:58.019
 one to scripture,

00:41:58.380 --> 00:41:58.599
 right?

00:41:58.619 --> 00:41:59.420
 And it's one that has

00:41:59.420 --> 00:42:00.260
 guided the church for

00:42:00.260 --> 00:42:00.619
 many years.

00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:01.320
 Now, here's where I

00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:01.960
 think we need to be

00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:02.639
 careful, right?

00:42:03.340 --> 00:42:03.700
 That,

00:42:03.940 --> 00:42:05.820
 I think we want to be

00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:07.019
 careful that when we're

00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:08.139
 struggling to define

00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:08.780
 this mystery,

00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:09.660
 we're not just like

00:42:09.660 --> 00:42:10.579
 throwing heresy stones

00:42:10.579 --> 00:42:11.660
 at everybody if they

00:42:11.660 --> 00:42:12.780
 can't repeat the

00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:13.960
 definition of Chalcedon.

00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:14.740
 Yeah, Rob, go ahead.

00:42:14.739 --> 00:42:22.259
 Oh, goodness, no, yes,

00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:23.039
 yes.

00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:23.599
 There's a tension

00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:24.299
 over the story.

00:42:24.479 --> 00:42:24.899
 There's a lot of

00:42:24.899 --> 00:42:25.939
 intuition that this

00:42:25.939 --> 00:42:27.059
 isn't quite right.

00:42:27.759 --> 00:42:28.679
 It took a while to

00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:29.739
 articulate the alternative.

00:42:30.279 --> 00:42:31.039
 Yes, that's right.

00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:32.339
 There's a broken one

00:42:32.339 --> 00:42:32.959
 that everyone

00:42:32.959 --> 00:42:33.539
 pointed out to the

00:42:33.539 --> 00:42:33.799
 story,

00:42:33.919 --> 00:42:35.479
 but everyone said

00:42:35.479 --> 00:42:36.159
 that's wrong.

00:42:36.939 --> 00:42:37.679
 There's all

00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:38.479
 intention over the

00:42:38.479 --> 00:42:38.619
 thing.

00:42:38.759 --> 00:42:39.839
 This doesn't quite

00:42:39.839 --> 00:42:40.559
 feel right.

00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:41.459
 Yeah, that's right.

00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:41.899
 Thank you, Rob.

00:42:41.900 --> 00:42:42.860
 It's not as if,

00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:44.599
 yeah, it's not as if

00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:46.099
 this was the first

00:42:46.099 --> 00:42:47.160
 time people started

00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:47.980
 using this language

00:42:47.980 --> 00:42:48.820
 to talk about Jesus.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:49.760
 It was the church

00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:50.539
 getting together and

00:42:50.539 --> 00:42:53.039
 saying, no, this is

00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:54.099
 the way that we're

00:42:54.099 --> 00:42:54.639
 going to walk in.

00:42:54.780 --> 00:42:56.840
 This is the faithful

00:42:56.840 --> 00:42:57.860
 expression of what

00:42:57.860 --> 00:42:58.639
 scriptures teach,

00:42:59.099 --> 00:42:59.400
 right?

00:42:59.780 --> 00:43:01.019
 Yeah, that's helpful.

00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:01.740
 Yep.

00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:03.500
 As they say at the

00:43:03.500 --> 00:43:03.900
 end of this

00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:04.340
 Chalcedonian

00:43:04.340 --> 00:43:05.160
 definition, right?

00:43:06.099 --> 00:43:06.599
 As the prophets

00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:07.160
 from the beginning

00:43:07.160 --> 00:43:07.619
 have declared

00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:08.360
 concerning him,

00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:09.320
 and the Lord Jesus

00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:10.180
 Christ himself taught

00:43:10.180 --> 00:43:11.200
 us, and the

00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:11.679
 Creed of the Holy

00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:12.239
 Father's handed

00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:12.719
 down to us.

00:43:12.739 --> 00:43:12.960
 So they're

00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:13.559
 basically saying,

00:43:13.659 --> 00:43:14.419
 like, this is what

00:43:14.419 --> 00:43:14.960
 the Old Testament,

00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:15.599
 the New Testament,

00:43:16.259 --> 00:43:17.239
 and the church so

00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:18.039
 far has really

00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:18.480
 taught.

00:43:18.779 --> 00:43:19.559
 We're trying to

00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:20.339
 articulate it as

00:43:20.339 --> 00:43:21.259
 best we can and

00:43:21.259 --> 00:43:22.019
 as clearly as we

00:43:22.019 --> 00:43:23.000
 can in light of

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:24.679
 these recent ways

00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:25.579
 of articulating it

00:43:25.579 --> 00:43:26.319
 that we feel like

00:43:26.319 --> 00:43:27.819
 stray from what

00:43:27.819 --> 00:43:28.539
 scriptures teach and

00:43:28.539 --> 00:43:29.139
 what the church has

00:43:29.139 --> 00:43:29.439
 taught.

00:43:30.259 --> 00:43:30.739
 Make sense?

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:31.299
 Yeah, Richard,

00:43:31.379 --> 00:43:31.579
 go ahead.

00:43:31.579 --> 00:43:38.039
 But when those

00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:38.739
 who are of

00:43:38.739 --> 00:43:40.559
 Nestorius' persuasion

00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:41.500
 or Eutychese'

00:43:41.500 --> 00:43:46.699
 persuasion read the

00:43:46.699 --> 00:43:48.400
 findings at

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:49.840
 Chalcedon, they

00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.019
 didn't say, oh,

00:43:51.619 --> 00:43:52.980
 this is what we've

00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:54.059
 been struggling for

00:43:54.059 --> 00:43:55.460
 years to say.

00:43:55.980 --> 00:43:57.159
 Now the church can

00:43:57.159 --> 00:43:58.960
 be one in this

00:43:58.960 --> 00:43:59.400
 matter.

00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:00.880
 Instead, they

00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:01.660
 hardened their

00:44:01.660 --> 00:44:02.800
 positions and went

00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:03.539
 their own way.

00:44:04.780 --> 00:44:05.519
 Well, you see that

00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:06.119
 a lot in church

00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:07.300
 history, right?

00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:10.760
 And there's a

00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:12.519
 really, interestingly,

00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:14.039
 Nestorius himself,

00:44:15.160 --> 00:44:16.400
 later in his life,

00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:17.960
 actually said, yeah,

00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:18.599
 I'm fine with the

00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:20.119
 Chalcedonian

00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:20.559
 definition.

00:44:22.160 --> 00:44:24.099
 I'm grossly

00:44:24.099 --> 00:44:24.920
 overstating things,

00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:26.260
 but yes.

00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:27.519
 However, what you

00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:28.420
 have to keep in

00:44:28.420 --> 00:44:29.340
 mind with church

00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:34.800
 history is that a

00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:35.820
 lot of these

00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:37.579
 debates end up

00:44:37.579 --> 00:44:38.280
 getting also

00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:39.340
 caught up in

00:44:39.340 --> 00:44:43.240
 culture, power,

00:44:44.579 --> 00:44:45.360
 political things,

00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:46.140
 right?

00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:49.100
 So a lot of

00:44:49.100 --> 00:44:50.160
 times things will

00:44:50.160 --> 00:44:51.200
 get defended with

00:44:51.200 --> 00:44:53.820
 a vigor because

00:44:53.820 --> 00:44:54.400
 there's a lot

00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:55.460
 loaded into it,

00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:56.300
 right?

00:44:56.300 --> 00:44:59.220
 So imagine if

00:44:59.220 --> 00:45:01.760
 this particular

00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:04.840
 way of

00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:05.560
 trying to make

00:45:05.560 --> 00:45:07.180
 sense of

00:45:07.180 --> 00:45:08.240
 the person of

00:45:08.240 --> 00:45:09.440
 Christ was

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:10.260
 also bound up

00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:10.519
 with your

00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:11.019
 culture, your

00:45:11.019 --> 00:45:11.600
 language, your

00:45:11.600 --> 00:45:12.240
 family, your

00:45:12.240 --> 00:45:12.900
 church tradition,

00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:13.260
 right?

00:45:13.900 --> 00:45:14.539
 It'd be hard to

00:45:14.539 --> 00:45:15.080
 just sort of like

00:45:15.080 --> 00:45:16.280
 chuck it and keep

00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:17.200
 going, right?

00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:20.219
 So I guess what I'm

00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:21.179
 trying to say is

00:45:21.179 --> 00:45:22.819
 this is where I

00:45:22.819 --> 00:45:23.460
 want to have a

00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:24.739
 view of the

00:45:24.739 --> 00:45:25.099
 Council of

00:45:25.099 --> 00:45:25.739
 Chalcedon that

00:45:25.739 --> 00:45:26.319
 says, yeah, I

00:45:26.319 --> 00:45:26.819
 actually think

00:45:26.819 --> 00:45:28.500
 that's probably the

00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:28.939
 best way of

00:45:28.939 --> 00:45:29.619
 articulating what

00:45:29.619 --> 00:45:29.939
 the scriptures

00:45:29.939 --> 00:45:31.039
 teach, but you

00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:31.699
 also want to be

00:45:31.699 --> 00:45:32.379
 generous to those

00:45:32.379 --> 00:45:33.199
 who are trying to

00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:33.939
 capture this in

00:45:33.939 --> 00:45:35.799
 ways that might

00:45:35.799 --> 00:45:36.899
 not use the same

00:45:36.899 --> 00:45:37.719
 kind of language to

00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:38.259
 get at the same

00:45:38.259 --> 00:45:39.139
 thing, right?

00:45:39.139 --> 00:45:40.420
 Because I think

00:45:40.420 --> 00:45:41.339
 if you were to

00:45:41.339 --> 00:45:42.960
 talk to a

00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:44.159
 church today that

00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:44.819
 holds something that

00:45:44.819 --> 00:45:45.659
 feels a lot more

00:45:45.659 --> 00:45:47.739
 like Nestorianism and

00:45:47.739 --> 00:45:48.259
 you started to

00:45:48.259 --> 00:45:48.980
 really talk about

00:45:48.980 --> 00:45:49.559
 them, you pushed

00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:50.460
 past the sort of

00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:51.299
 creedal definitions,

00:45:51.759 --> 00:45:52.599
 I think you'd end

00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:53.259
 up really, really

00:45:53.259 --> 00:45:53.639
 similar.

00:45:54.839 --> 00:45:56.659
 But here's where my

00:45:56.659 --> 00:45:57.420
 knowledge of things

00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:58.159
 starts to get white

00:45:58.159 --> 00:45:58.739
 because I'm no

00:45:58.739 --> 00:45:59.839
 expert in the

00:45:59.839 --> 00:46:00.299
 Church of the

00:46:00.299 --> 00:46:01.460
 East or the

00:46:01.460 --> 00:46:02.659
 current Nestorian

00:46:02.659 --> 00:46:04.159
 churches of today and

00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:04.879
 things like that,

00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:05.219
 right?

00:46:05.539 --> 00:46:07.539
 So, but you're

00:46:07.539 --> 00:46:07.719
 right.

00:46:07.799 --> 00:46:08.139
 Even with

00:46:08.139 --> 00:46:08.799
 Arianism, though,

00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:10.280
 like when the

00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:10.920
 Council of Nicaea

00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:12.160
 happened, there

00:46:12.160 --> 00:46:12.880
 were Arians running

00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:13.620
 around for hundreds

00:46:13.620 --> 00:46:14.840
 of years, right?

00:46:15.700 --> 00:46:16.460
 Because bad ideas

00:46:16.460 --> 00:46:16.960
 die hard.

00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:19.060
 Yeah.

00:46:19.240 --> 00:46:19.980
 Matt, go ahead.

00:46:20.260 --> 00:46:20.360
 Yeah.

00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:22.000
 Two questions.

00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:22.500
 Yeah.

00:46:22.700 --> 00:46:24.140
 When was the issue

00:46:24.140 --> 00:46:25.539
 of one or two

00:46:25.539 --> 00:46:26.539
 wills?

00:46:26.539 --> 00:46:26.940
 Oh.

00:46:27.140 --> 00:46:27.880
 The person of

00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:28.800
 Jesus brought up

00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:29.380
 and the second

00:46:29.380 --> 00:46:30.900
 one is, was there

00:46:30.900 --> 00:46:32.700
 ever a council

00:46:32.700 --> 00:46:33.960
 debate about whether

00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:35.840
 Jesus had one or

00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:37.039
 two centers of

00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:37.660
 consciousness?

00:46:37.659 --> 00:46:38.639
 Yeah.

00:46:38.839 --> 00:46:42.239
 So, I forget the

00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:43.000
 year that the

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:44.779
 monothelite controversy

00:46:44.779 --> 00:46:45.139
 happened.

00:46:45.259 --> 00:46:46.139
 That's the debate

00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:47.519
 over Jesus having a

00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:48.619
 fully human will.

00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:50.139
 But it was after

00:46:50.139 --> 00:46:51.219
 Chalcedon.

00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:52.299
 Yep.

00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:53.500
 Google search it.

00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:54.480
 You'll find the

00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:54.739
 date.

00:46:57.059 --> 00:46:58.059
 I think it was

00:46:58.059 --> 00:46:58.839
 pre, I think it was

00:46:58.839 --> 00:47:00.460
 100 or 200 years

00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:01.119
 later, though.

00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:02.319
 For some reason,

00:47:02.399 --> 00:47:03.420
 681 is in my mind,

00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:04.039
 but I could be wrong

00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:04.500
 about that.

00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:06.079
 Well, that was the

00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:06.920
 year in which it was

00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:07.260
 settled.

00:47:08.380 --> 00:47:09.260
 681 is when the

00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:10.159
 monothelite, thank you.

00:47:10.179 --> 00:47:10.840
 Okay, thanks, Richard.

00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:11.079
 Yep.

00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:12.079
 681.

00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:13.179
 681.

00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:13.639
 Yep.

00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.039
 Whether Jesus has two

00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:17.420
 centers of consciousness,

00:47:19.219 --> 00:47:22.019
 that way of speaking

00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:23.260
 about the unity of

00:47:23.260 --> 00:47:24.760
 Christ's person, to my

00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:26.559
 knowledge, which is

00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:28.619
 limited, wasn't really

00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:30.219
 used in these early

00:47:30.219 --> 00:47:31.820
 Christological debates.

00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:33.240
 I think that's more of

00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:34.420
 a modern way of

00:47:34.420 --> 00:47:36.260
 expressing things.

00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:40.940
 Maybe it was never

00:47:40.940 --> 00:47:41.480
 addressed.

00:47:41.500 --> 00:47:42.580
 I don't, I don't,

00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:44.539
 yeah, I don't think so.

00:47:44.539 --> 00:47:45.360
 Not to my knowledge.

00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:46.180
 I could be wrong about

00:47:46.180 --> 00:47:46.340
 that.

00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:47.240
 But I do think that,

00:47:47.620 --> 00:47:48.700
 just that language of a

00:47:48.700 --> 00:47:49.539
 center of consciousness,

00:47:50.220 --> 00:47:51.140
 you certainly don't find

00:47:51.140 --> 00:47:51.760
 that in the first few

00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:52.600
 hundred years, right?

00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:55.039
 That could be a bit,

00:47:55.100 --> 00:47:56.100
 that could be a bit of

00:47:56.100 --> 00:47:56.800
 what they're getting at

00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.200
 with language of person.

00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:00.859
 Does it, does a center

00:48:00.859 --> 00:48:02.259
 of consciousness fall,

00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:03.559
 is that a, is that,

00:48:03.779 --> 00:48:04.500
 would that fall into the

00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:05.319
 person or would that

00:48:05.319 --> 00:48:06.259
 fall into the nature,

00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:06.739
 right?

00:48:07.299 --> 00:48:08.379
 This is where we start to,

00:48:08.439 --> 00:48:09.179
 this is where we start to

00:48:09.179 --> 00:48:10.219
 get into the realm of

00:48:10.219 --> 00:48:10.919
 like, wow, what does that

00:48:10.919 --> 00:48:11.259
 look like?

00:48:11.919 --> 00:48:12.519
 Yeah, Matt, go ahead.

00:48:13.179 --> 00:48:15.119
 So I was taught two

00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:16.439
 centers of consciousness

00:48:16.439 --> 00:48:17.939
 by a very Orthodox

00:48:17.939 --> 00:48:18.319
 person.

00:48:18.319 --> 00:48:19.019
 Sure, yeah.

00:48:19.019 --> 00:48:19.619
 A seminary.

00:48:19.819 --> 00:48:20.259
 Yeah, sure.

00:48:20.260 --> 00:48:24.980
 And on one level,

00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:26.240
 you know, some of these

00:48:26.240 --> 00:48:27.800
 things, to me, my way of

00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:30.080
 being seen, very speculative.

00:48:30.380 --> 00:48:31.600
 For sure, yes.

00:48:31.620 --> 00:48:33.600
 However, that particular

00:48:33.600 --> 00:48:35.960
 issue solved a little

00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:37.120
 problem where,

00:48:37.240 --> 00:48:39.620
 interpreted one way,

00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:41.440
 the son does not know,

00:48:41.780 --> 00:48:43.820
 you know, when the second

00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:44.200
 coming.

00:48:44.240 --> 00:48:45.240
 Sure, yeah.

00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:46.140
 Isn't that one, that's

00:48:46.140 --> 00:48:46.900
 one of the verses that

00:48:46.900 --> 00:48:49.280
 really is a test case,

00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:50.460
 I think, for a lot of

00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:51.880
 our Christological

00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:52.380
 thinking.

00:48:52.720 --> 00:48:53.900
 Or at least it starts to

00:48:53.900 --> 00:48:54.920
 push out some of these

00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:55.360
 distinctions.

00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:56.019
 Yeah, go ahead, Matt.

00:48:56.120 --> 00:48:57.100
 So when you come to

00:48:57.100 --> 00:48:58.460
 that, in my mind,

00:48:58.560 --> 00:49:00.060
 you go back to hard

00:49:00.060 --> 00:49:01.500
 evidence of Scripture.

00:49:01.900 --> 00:49:02.400
 Yeah, right.

00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:04.320
 How to fit all of those

00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.380
 things in with my very

00:49:06.380 --> 00:49:07.940
 limited understanding of

00:49:07.940 --> 00:49:10.519
 theology and how all the

00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:11.780
 logic fits together.

00:49:11.780 --> 00:49:12.060
 Yeah, right.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:14.200
 You know, I want to say,

00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:15.700
 oh, yeah, two centers

00:49:15.700 --> 00:49:16.400
 of consciousness.

00:49:16.600 --> 00:49:16.760
 Yeah.

00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:17.840
 Because it addresses,

00:49:18.160 --> 00:49:19.260
 for me, anyway,

00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:19.760
 Yeah.

00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:20.480
 Sure.

00:49:20.600 --> 00:49:21.600
 Attention and

00:49:21.600 --> 00:49:22.880
 spiritual evidence.

00:49:23.080 --> 00:49:23.280
 Yeah.

00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:25.280
 Oh, that feels,

00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:25.920
 that's sweet.

00:49:26.060 --> 00:49:26.300
 Yeah.

00:49:27.260 --> 00:49:28.360
 And this is where

00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:29.640
 theological language,

00:49:29.780 --> 00:49:31.100
 right, is helping us

00:49:31.100 --> 00:49:33.080
 approach how do we

00:49:33.080 --> 00:49:33.740
 grapple and hold

00:49:33.740 --> 00:49:34.760
 together these biblical

00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:36.760
 truths with our

00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:37.460
 finite minds.

00:49:38.019 --> 00:49:39.460
 So if language of two

00:49:39.460 --> 00:49:40.420
 centers of consciousness

00:49:40.420 --> 00:49:41.900
 helps us to affirm

00:49:41.900 --> 00:49:43.519
 that Jesus is fully

00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:44.280
 human and fully

00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:45.600
 divine in one person,

00:49:45.740 --> 00:49:46.000
 great.

00:49:46.820 --> 00:49:47.040
 Right?

00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:48.920
 If it begins to push

00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:51.300
 Jesus into kind of a

00:49:51.300 --> 00:49:52.380
 split personality,

00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:54.500
 then it can become not

00:49:54.500 --> 00:49:54.840
 helpful.

00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:55.420
 Right?

00:49:57.099 --> 00:49:58.480
 But again, this is where

00:49:58.480 --> 00:49:59.460
 with an issue like this,

00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:00.960
 it usually takes more

00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:02.679
 than a slogan to really

00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:03.639
 capture what the Bible's

00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:04.059
 talking about.

00:50:04.139 --> 00:50:05.360
 But I actually think,

00:50:05.420 --> 00:50:05.940
 Matt, you're bringing up

00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:06.320
 a good point.

00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:06.539
 Right?

00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:07.659
 If two centers of

00:50:07.659 --> 00:50:08.400
 consciousness is helpful

00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:09.500
 to capture what this is

00:50:09.500 --> 00:50:10.019
 talking about, then

00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:10.460
 great.

00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:12.039
 I don't necessarily have

00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:12.920
 any problem with it.

00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:13.259
 Right?

00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:14.240
 Yeah.

00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:14.700
 Beth?

00:50:15.580 --> 00:50:16.680
 I think it's interesting

00:50:16.680 --> 00:50:17.660
 that most of the

00:50:17.660 --> 00:50:19.080
 conversations you laid

00:50:19.080 --> 00:50:21.020
 out around this mystery

00:50:21.020 --> 00:50:22.660
 is coming from like a

00:50:22.660 --> 00:50:23.780
 conception point as

00:50:23.780 --> 00:50:25.700
 opposed to a like

00:50:25.700 --> 00:50:26.740
 lived point.

00:50:26.860 --> 00:50:27.060
 Yeah.

00:50:27.140 --> 00:50:28.940
 And I think one of the,

00:50:29.980 --> 00:50:31.920
 as we try to reach for

00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:33.320
 it, like the fact that

00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:34.120
 we're sinners.

00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:36.599
 Yeah.

00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:36.659
 Yeah.

00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:36.880
 Yeah.

00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:40.199
 We can't even taste the

00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:41.940
 sort of like, for lack

00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:42.940
 of a better term, sort of

00:50:42.940 --> 00:50:43.980
 the synergy, the working

00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:45.880
 together of God's will

00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:46.599
 and human will.

00:50:46.699 --> 00:50:46.900
 Yeah.

00:50:47.139 --> 00:50:48.420
 We can't even quite grasp

00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:50.259
 the uncontaminated, like

00:50:50.259 --> 00:50:52.239
 really stirred together

00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:54.880
 solution of God and man.

00:50:55.059 --> 00:50:55.239
 Yeah.

00:50:55.739 --> 00:50:56.219
 Yeah.

00:50:56.440 --> 00:50:58.759
 So anyway, I think I'm

00:50:58.759 --> 00:51:01.019
 sure in there, as they

00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:03.380
 like did these deep dives

00:51:03.380 --> 00:51:04.700
 into this mystery of

00:51:04.700 --> 00:51:06.039
 like, what does it

00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:07.860
 mean that Jesus was

00:51:07.860 --> 00:51:09.000
 fully human but without

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:10.480
 sin, that he was so

00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:14.460
 submitted, fully harmonious

00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:15.360
 and submitted to the

00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:16.000
 will of the Father?

00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:17.400
 Like, what does that

00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:18.440
 even mean?

00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:19.079
 Right.

00:51:20.220 --> 00:51:20.660
 Yeah.

00:51:21.220 --> 00:51:21.440
 Yeah.

00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:22.840
 Yeah.

00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:23.760
 No, it's a great point.

00:51:24.220 --> 00:51:25.099
 I think you're making two

00:51:25.099 --> 00:51:26.019
 really good points, Beth.

00:51:26.180 --> 00:51:28.760
 Or one really overarching

00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:30.700
 point, which is, you know,

00:51:31.180 --> 00:51:32.140
 as humans, we don't just

00:51:32.139 --> 00:51:33.599
 have finite minds, right?

00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:34.619
 But we also have fallen

00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:37.139
 minds when we approach

00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:38.460
 these things, right?

00:51:38.619 --> 00:51:44.039
 So even if, even if sin

00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:44.859
 had never entered the

00:51:44.859 --> 00:51:47.460
 world, we would still not

00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:50.579
 be able to fully comprehend,

00:51:51.179 --> 00:51:51.480
 right?

00:51:51.619 --> 00:51:52.659
 Comprehend in the sense of

00:51:52.659 --> 00:51:54.980
 understand in every degree

00:51:54.980 --> 00:51:57.420
 what's going on in the

00:51:57.420 --> 00:51:57.839
 incarnation.

00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.559
 just like we would, we

00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:00.420
 will never for all

00:52:00.420 --> 00:52:02.039
 eternity fully comprehend

00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:03.600
 God's triune nature,

00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:04.340
 right?

00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:07.059
 Now, add on top of that

00:52:07.059 --> 00:52:09.820
 the fact that there are

00:52:09.820 --> 00:52:10.700
 what are sometimes called

00:52:10.700 --> 00:52:12.440
 noetic effects of the

00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:13.559
 fall, which is a fancy way

00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:14.860
 to saying our thinking

00:52:14.860 --> 00:52:15.880
 too, our reasoning

00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:16.800
 capacities have been

00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:17.700
 affected by the fall.

00:52:18.579 --> 00:52:20.200
 So there's like strike two

00:52:20.200 --> 00:52:22.800
 and we're really never

00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:23.519
 going to get to the bottom

00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:24.280
 of this, right?

00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:24.680
 Right.

00:52:25.080 --> 00:52:25.360
 Yeah.

00:52:26.780 --> 00:52:27.780
 So we're going to try to

00:52:27.780 --> 00:52:28.640
 find language to help us

00:52:28.640 --> 00:52:30.160
 articulate the realities we

00:52:30.160 --> 00:52:31.540
 see in scripture, but also

00:52:31.540 --> 00:52:33.820
 acknowledge where we run

00:52:33.820 --> 00:52:34.320
 up to.

00:52:34.460 --> 00:52:35.400
 There's mystery there.

00:52:35.680 --> 00:52:36.440
 There really is.

00:52:36.820 --> 00:52:37.880
 And I think as Christians

00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:39.440
 that's okay, right?

00:52:39.980 --> 00:52:42.300
 It's okay to say, here's

00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:45.040
 what God's revealed and we

00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:46.519
 have to just let them sit

00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:46.980
 there.

00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:51.639
 You know, we can do our

00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:52.860
 best to try to define and

00:52:52.860 --> 00:52:54.199
 understand and look at the

00:52:54.199 --> 00:52:55.559
 scriptural data, right?

00:52:56.059 --> 00:52:57.300
 But at the end of the day,

00:52:57.740 --> 00:52:59.539
 like we just have to, our

00:52:59.539 --> 00:53:01.000
 posture before some of these

00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:03.500
 things has to eventually end

00:53:03.500 --> 00:53:04.960
 in awe and wonder and

00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:06.780
 worship, right?

00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:08.320
 Yeah.

00:53:08.380 --> 00:53:08.920
 Do you want to add to that,

00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:09.039
 Beth?

00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:09.280
 Go ahead.

00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:10.699
 Well, and I just think what's

00:53:10.699 --> 00:53:12.000
 been helpful for me to not

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.920
 feel overwhelmed with kind of

00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:16.179
 stepping out of the boat on

00:53:16.179 --> 00:53:16.639
 these things.

00:53:16.940 --> 00:53:17.819
 At least the story has

00:53:17.819 --> 00:53:18.579
 stepped out of the boat,

00:53:18.679 --> 00:53:18.859
 right?

00:53:19.319 --> 00:53:20.460
 Yeah, right, right.

00:53:20.500 --> 00:53:22.259
 I think what's helpful is to

00:53:22.259 --> 00:53:23.440
 always think in terms of

00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:24.399
 like, one, what does the

00:53:24.399 --> 00:53:25.039
 word of God say?

00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:26.859
 And two, what's at stake?

00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:27.179
 Yeah.

00:53:27.259 --> 00:53:28.919
 Like, to understand what's

00:53:28.919 --> 00:53:29.819
 at stake with the

00:53:29.819 --> 00:53:31.179
 certainty that which you

00:53:31.179 --> 00:53:31.639
 played out.

00:53:32.339 --> 00:53:33.139
 Yeah, yeah.

00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:34.599
 And I wish, you know, three

00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:35.980
 weeks was way too little time

00:53:35.980 --> 00:53:36.659
 to do this class.

00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:37.359
 I'm realizing now.

00:53:37.399 --> 00:53:38.099
 We should have done it over

00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:40.000
 six, I think, because it

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:41.079
 would have been a lot of fun

00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:42.079
 to push even deeper.

00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:42.799
 There's a lot we haven't

00:53:42.799 --> 00:53:43.839
 talked about in this class,

00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:45.059
 and I'll say this kind of by

00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:45.759
 way of summing up,

00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:46.460
 because we need to go.

00:53:47.220 --> 00:53:48.300
 You know, we haven't talked

00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:50.380
 about Philippians 2, which I'm

00:53:50.380 --> 00:53:51.660
 kind of, it's too bad we

00:53:51.660 --> 00:53:52.360
 haven't.

00:53:52.580 --> 00:53:53.520
 And we haven't talked about

00:53:53.520 --> 00:53:54.720
 what's sometimes called

00:53:54.720 --> 00:53:56.220
 Kenotic Christology.

00:53:56.560 --> 00:53:58.340
 What does it mean that Jesus

00:53:58.340 --> 00:54:00.920
 emptied himself in the

00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:01.340
 incarnation?

00:54:01.340 --> 00:54:01.480
 incarnation?

00:54:04.100 --> 00:54:07.660
 Now, I think, real briefly on

00:54:07.660 --> 00:54:08.480
 that, what does it mean that

00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:09.340
 Jesus emptied himself?

00:54:09.500 --> 00:54:11.140
 When you look at Philippians 2,

00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:14.140
 we want to be careful when we

00:54:14.140 --> 00:54:15.680
 talk about Jesus emptying himself

00:54:15.680 --> 00:54:17.500
 in the incarnation, that he

00:54:17.500 --> 00:54:20.180
 doesn't sort of leave behind

00:54:20.180 --> 00:54:22.539
 divine attributes.

00:54:22.539 --> 00:54:27.059
 because if Jesus just sort of

00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:29.320
 left behind or gave up

00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:31.159
 divine attributes when he

00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:32.880
 became a human being, in what

00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:34.159
 sense can we say that he's still

00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:35.500
 fully God, right?

00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:37.619
 And I think when you look at

00:54:37.619 --> 00:54:39.360
 Philippians 2, what Jesus is,

00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:41.880
 what the Son is emptying himself

00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:43.539
 of is not necessarily

00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:47.639
 attributes, but honor and glory,

00:54:48.300 --> 00:54:49.739
 privilege and position, right?

00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:51.039
 Think of that.

00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:54.500
 Let this mind be in you, which

00:54:54.500 --> 00:54:55.359
 also in Christ Jesus, who,

00:54:55.859 --> 00:54:57.439
 being in the form of God, right,

00:54:57.979 --> 00:55:00.539
 being fully God, didn't consider

00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:02.859
 equality with God a thing to be,

00:55:03.339 --> 00:55:04.219
 what's the word there?

00:55:04.919 --> 00:55:06.659
 Grasp, sometimes we translate it.

00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.939
 The sense of that word is sort of

00:55:10.939 --> 00:55:15.479
 exploited for his own privilege,

00:55:16.439 --> 00:55:16.659
 right?

00:55:17.859 --> 00:55:18.299
 Used.

00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:23.199
 But emptied himself and took the

00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:24.439
 form of a servant, right?

00:55:25.099 --> 00:55:26.959
 And interesting, took the form of a

00:55:26.959 --> 00:55:29.279
 servant, I think is explanatory of

00:55:29.279 --> 00:55:31.259
 what the emptying was, right?

00:55:32.439 --> 00:55:36.039
 To give up, in a sense, not his

00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:37.339
 divine attributes, but the honor,

00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:39.639
 glory, privilege and position of

00:55:39.639 --> 00:55:41.500
 heaven to come and be a servant and

00:55:41.500 --> 00:55:41.799
 die.

00:55:42.419 --> 00:55:43.439
 Now, of course, that raises all

00:55:43.439 --> 00:55:44.059
 sorts of questions.

00:55:44.500 --> 00:55:45.199
 Matt, you raised them.

00:55:45.419 --> 00:55:46.479
 What does it mean that the Son

00:55:46.479 --> 00:55:47.639
 doesn't know the day or the hour

00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:49.940
 when the Father will come and

00:55:49.940 --> 00:55:51.519
 clean up all things, right?

00:55:52.339 --> 00:55:54.259
 And I think the answer there has

00:55:54.259 --> 00:55:55.059
 been twofold.

00:55:55.219 --> 00:55:56.440
 One is, some people will say, well,

00:55:56.539 --> 00:55:59.119
 that is Jesus speaking out of his

00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:00.579
 human nature, right?

00:56:01.139 --> 00:56:02.659
 In his divine nature, of course he

00:56:02.659 --> 00:56:03.839
 knew everything.

00:56:04.019 --> 00:56:04.699
 The end from the beginning.

00:56:04.799 --> 00:56:06.139
 But in his human nature, he did not,

00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:06.639
 right?

00:56:08.279 --> 00:56:09.779
 That's sort of one way to approach it.

00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:11.900
 A sort of lesser way is that,

00:56:11.900 --> 00:56:14.840
 this is sort of a soft version of

00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:16.340
 Philippians 2, where it's like,

00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:18.039
 Jesus wasn't giving up his divine

00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:20.200
 attributes, he was limiting them in

00:56:20.200 --> 00:56:20.760
 the incarnation.

00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:22.119
 Sort of a self-limiting.

00:56:23.460 --> 00:56:25.280
 The illustration is sometimes given

00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:28.460
 of a, imagine an elite sprinter having

00:56:28.460 --> 00:56:30.280
 to do a three-legged race with me,

00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:31.340
 right?

00:56:32.180 --> 00:56:34.260
 He's still an elite sprinter, but we're

00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:36.039
 moving a lot slower because we've got

00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:37.099
 to, like, stick together.

00:56:38.099 --> 00:56:40.699
 So that's one way that, again, we're

00:56:40.699 --> 00:56:42.299
 trying to hold together the two

00:56:42.299 --> 00:56:43.759
 natures in the one person, right?

00:56:44.339 --> 00:56:48.599
 You know, I think either way is

00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:50.339
 biblically acceptable, right?

00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:51.839
 But what we don't want to say is that

00:56:51.839 --> 00:56:54.500
 Jesus just gave up divine attributes

00:56:54.500 --> 00:56:55.940
 when he became a human, right?

00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:57.279
 We don't want to say that because then

00:56:57.279 --> 00:56:58.860
 Jesus, again, we're falling into this

00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:01.059
 thing where Jesus wasn't fully God,

00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:01.339
 right?

00:57:01.699 --> 00:57:03.920
 Better to sit in that mystery of, yeah,

00:57:03.940 --> 00:57:05.480
 there are times when his human nature

00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:06.759
 really is shining through.

00:57:07.099 --> 00:57:09.739
 Or maybe when the kind of limitation

00:57:09.739 --> 00:57:12.279
 of his divine natures in the

00:57:12.279 --> 00:57:13.699
 incarnation is really shining through

00:57:13.699 --> 00:57:15.559
 than to say he wasn't this, that,

00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:16.500
 or the other thing, right?

00:57:19.259 --> 00:57:20.699
 So that's what we didn't talk about

00:57:20.699 --> 00:57:21.159
 in this class.

00:57:21.839 --> 00:57:23.440
 We also could have pushed so much

00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:25.239
 harder into the practical difference

00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:26.079
 that all this makes.

00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:30.500
 So, yeah, let me just encourage you,

00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:32.500
 you know, if you'd like to push deeper

00:57:32.500 --> 00:57:34.039
 in these things, it really is a deep

00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:36.420
 wellspring of wonder and comfort for us

00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:36.920
 as Christians.

00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:39.340
 So, Beth, did you have a last word?

00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:40.019
 I saw your hand go up.

00:57:40.019 --> 00:57:41.260
 I thought I had something.

00:57:41.380 --> 00:57:42.340
 Oh, Debbie, did you have something

00:57:42.340 --> 00:57:42.780
 you wanted to add?

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:43.380
 Yeah.

00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:43.440
 Yeah.

00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:47.639
 Yeah.

00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:51.800
 Yeah.

00:57:52.340 --> 00:57:52.659
 Sure.

00:57:53.059 --> 00:57:53.539
 Yeah.

00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:53.820
 Yeah.

00:57:57.019 --> 00:57:57.500
 Yeah.

00:57:59.019 --> 00:57:59.579
 Yeah.

00:57:59.579 --> 00:57:59.659
 Yeah.

00:57:59.659 --> 00:58:03.699
 Sure.

00:58:03.699 --> 00:58:03.779
 Sure.

00:58:03.779 --> 00:58:06.579
 I know.

00:58:06.579 --> 00:58:07.779
 I know.

00:58:07.779 --> 00:58:07.980
 Yeah.

00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:08.019
 Yeah.

00:58:09.819 --> 00:58:10.379
 Right, right, right.

00:58:10.379 --> 00:58:10.859
 Yes.

00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:11.699
 Yes, I know.

00:58:11.719 --> 00:58:12.159
 I know.

00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:12.379
 Yeah.

00:58:12.379 --> 00:58:12.779
 Yeah.

00:58:12.779 --> 00:58:13.219
 Yeah.

00:58:13.219 --> 00:58:13.659
 Yeah.

00:58:13.659 --> 00:58:14.099
 Yeah.

00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:14.179
 Yeah.

00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:14.920
 Right.

00:58:15.139 --> 00:58:15.379
 Right.

00:58:15.460 --> 00:58:15.839
 Yeah.

00:58:15.839 --> 00:58:16.159
 Yeah.

00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:16.639
 Yeah.

00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:17.359
 Yeah.

00:58:17.539 --> 00:58:18.739
 You know, here's, here's how I think

00:58:18.739 --> 00:58:19.199
 about it.

00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:19.839
 Ah!

00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:26.539
 So, I think what's, I think a good catchphrase

00:58:26.539 --> 00:58:28.100
 in Christology is,

00:58:28.519 --> 00:58:37.019
 remaining what he was, he became what he was not.

00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:41.380
 Remaining what he was, he became what he was not.

00:58:41.860 --> 00:58:44.340
 He assumed a human nature, right?

00:58:44.340 --> 00:58:49.480
 He assumed a human nature, the divine, the word of God, right?

00:58:49.559 --> 00:58:54.960
 God the Son assumed a fully human nature, right?

00:58:56.840 --> 00:59:02.519
 So, one way I think about it is that what was happening when Jesus was born, right?

00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:11.059
 That the fully divine second person of the Trinity had assumed into his divine nature

00:59:11.059 --> 00:59:15.019
 a fully human nature, and in that moment was experiencing exactly what it's like to be

00:59:15.019 --> 00:59:16.279
 an infant, right?

00:59:16.599 --> 00:59:21.559
 Without ceasing to be omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient and all those things, he suddenly

00:59:21.559 --> 00:59:27.400
 knew intimately what it was like to be helpless and hungry and crying for milk, right?

00:59:28.699 --> 00:59:30.380
 That's utterly mind-blowing, right?

00:59:30.779 --> 00:59:32.059
 But there it is.

00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:35.719
 I mean, that's the mystery of the incarnation, and you think about that through his whole life,

00:59:35.779 --> 00:59:35.900
 right?

00:59:35.900 --> 00:59:43.019
 So, I wonder if in that Mark 13 passage, not even the Son knows that there was the person

00:59:43.019 --> 00:59:47.059
 of Christ experiencing in his humanity exactly what ignorance was like.

00:59:47.780 --> 00:59:48.900
 Isn't that powerful?

00:59:50.200 --> 00:59:51.240
 Mind-blowing, right?

00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:55.420
 That he knows what it's like to not know everything in that moment.

00:59:56.559 --> 01:00:03.460
 What a comfort to know that our Savior was willing to stoop, give up his privilege and position,

01:00:03.460 --> 01:00:07.880
 to even taste of ignorance for a moment.

01:00:09.260 --> 01:00:10.240
 Wild, right?

01:00:11.139 --> 01:00:14.880
 And utterly unique in the history of religions.

01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:16.300
 There's nothing like this.

01:00:17.179 --> 01:00:19.159
 So, okay, let me pray and we'll close.

01:00:19.699 --> 01:00:27.400
 Father in heaven, our Lord Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, God three in one, Lord, we just ask

01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:36.160
 for your help and your grace to not just understand these things as limited as we can, but to live

01:00:36.160 --> 01:00:43.639
 in the great truth that you, our infinite God, took on a finite nature for us and for our

01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:44.079
 salvation.

01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:51.639
 Thank you, Lord Jesus, that in you, in your one person, we can see, God, what you are truly

01:00:51.639 --> 01:00:57.319
 like and we can know that you have reconciled and redeemed us.

01:00:57.879 --> 01:00:59.460
 We pray this in your mighty name, Jesus.

01:00:59.619 --> 01:00:59.799
 Amen.

01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:01.440
 All right, friends.

01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:04.639
 If people look at you funny because you're late to church, you can blame the pastor.

01:01:05.319 --> 01:01:08.460
 But let me encourage you to rush next door and catch the service.

01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:08.559
 Thank you.