WEBVTT 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:08.080 So, we're starting a short series looking at the mission of the church and the values of our church. 00:00:08.779 --> 00:00:12.019 And I'm going to do some of them, David's going to do some of them as well. 00:00:12.919 --> 00:00:20.160 And we're thinking tonight about what the church is for, right? 00:00:20.780 --> 00:00:23.140 So, what does the church exist for? 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.920 And then in coming weeks we're sort of thinking about what should the church be like, okay? 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:28.700 So, what is the church for? 00:00:29.140 --> 00:00:30.240 And then what should it be like? 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:34.280 So, that's the kind of vision and these are the kind of values, yeah? 00:00:34.380 --> 00:00:37.640 So, what are we doing and how are we doing it? 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:39.380 In what kind of manner are we doing it? 00:00:40.040 --> 00:00:45.520 So, to get your mind going, I want you, perhaps with the person next to you, 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:48.719 or you can do it on your own if you would like to, I want you to fill in the blank. 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:52.640 The church exists to... 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:55.060 Fill in the blank. 00:00:56.920 --> 00:01:01.039 You can write whatever you like, except make me rich. 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:02.719 You're not allowed to write that. 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:04.900 Okay, anything you like. 00:01:08.379 --> 00:01:10.920 Okay, does anyone want to fire back their answers? 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:14.920 The church exists to... 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:20.920 All I heard was... 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:22.359 Mike's got his hand up. 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:23.819 Yeah, that's the... 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:23.819 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:25.900 What is it, too, with both the people, 00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:28.500 Yeah. 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:28.560 Yeah. 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:51.240 Okay. 00:01:51.820 --> 00:01:54.020 So it's a demonstration of what God can do. 00:01:54.460 --> 00:01:54.780 Yeah. 00:01:55.900 --> 00:01:57.180 Yeah. 00:02:03.800 --> 00:02:05.120 Yes. 00:02:05.520 --> 00:02:06.780 Displaying his presence. 00:02:07.100 --> 00:02:07.200 Yeah. 00:02:08.300 --> 00:02:08.860 Yeah. 00:02:10.099 --> 00:02:12.219 Anybody else? 00:02:15.740 --> 00:02:17.020 Yes. 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:19.920 Yeah. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:21.080 To glorify God. 00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:23.540 Yeah. 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:23.639 Yeah. 00:02:24.539 --> 00:02:28.239 How in particular does the church glorify God? 00:02:28.699 --> 00:02:31.000 What is it about the church that glorifies God? 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:33.459 Spreads the word of God? 00:02:33.579 --> 00:02:33.699 Yeah. 00:02:34.819 --> 00:02:35.159 Yeah. 00:02:36.539 --> 00:02:37.139 Yeah. 00:02:37.139 --> 00:02:38.299 By building a community? 00:02:38.699 --> 00:02:38.879 Yeah. 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:38.939 Yeah. 00:02:38.939 --> 00:02:58.960 And it's likeģ „ 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:00.580 yeah 00:03:00.580 --> 00:03:05.620 yes 00:03:05.620 --> 00:03:19.900 yeah 00:03:19.900 --> 00:03:25.340 yes 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:27.460 yes 00:03:27.460 --> 00:03:29.460 so glorifying is if you like 00:03:29.460 --> 00:03:31.420 going public on the greatness 00:03:31.420 --> 00:03:32.040 of isn't it 00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:34.159 so if I'm glorifying God 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:35.680 I am declaring 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:36.540 his greatness 00:03:36.540 --> 00:03:37.140 I am 00:03:37.140 --> 00:03:38.520 yeah 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:41.020 going public on what God is like 00:03:41.020 --> 00:03:41.640 yeah 00:03:41.640 --> 00:03:43.180 yeah 00:03:43.180 --> 00:03:44.700 anybody else 00:03:44.700 --> 00:03:52.300 yeah 00:03:52.300 --> 00:03:53.620 yeah 00:03:53.620 --> 00:03:55.840 yeah 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:57.580 yeah 00:03:57.580 --> 00:03:58.620 discipling 00:03:58.620 --> 00:03:59.439 baptizing 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:01.280 reaching unbelievers 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:01.780 with the gospel 00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:02.480 yeah 00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:04.420 um 00:04:04.420 --> 00:04:06.159 I don't 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:06.980 I don't think I've heard 00:04:06.980 --> 00:04:07.759 a wrong answer yet 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:07.960 right 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:08.580 so I'm 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:10.219 I think that's all great 00:04:10.219 --> 00:04:11.319 I think I 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:12.280 to try and 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:13.980 bring some clarity 00:04:13.980 --> 00:04:14.599 to our thinking 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:15.360 I want to talk about 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:16.420 a primary goal 00:04:16.420 --> 00:04:17.959 a primary means 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:19.660 and two twin aims 00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:20.000 okay 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:20.259 and 00:04:20.259 --> 00:04:21.740 your handout really 00:04:21.740 --> 00:04:22.780 is the Bible verses 00:04:22.780 --> 00:04:23.840 so that you don't have to spend 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:25.159 ages flicking through the Bible 00:04:25.159 --> 00:04:26.399 and there are some questions 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:27.599 that we're going to discuss together as well 00:04:27.599 --> 00:04:28.799 so let me try and head through this 00:04:28.799 --> 00:04:30.439 a primary goal 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:31.319 I think 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:33.339 that it might sound a bit obvious 00:04:33.339 --> 00:04:34.639 and Mike said it 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:36.459 and Ray also picked it up 00:04:36.459 --> 00:04:37.779 that the church exists 00:04:37.779 --> 00:04:38.879 for the glory of God 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:40.019 in the way that everything 00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:41.759 exists for the glory of God 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:43.079 everything points to the glory of God 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:43.779 but 00:04:43.779 --> 00:04:45.759 the church exists 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:47.219 to worship God 00:04:47.219 --> 00:04:47.500 right 00:04:47.500 --> 00:04:49.519 to ascribe worth 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:50.259 to God 00:04:50.259 --> 00:04:51.399 to declare his 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:52.479 greatness 00:04:52.479 --> 00:04:53.479 and his glory 00:04:53.479 --> 00:04:55.379 and we need to start there 00:04:55.379 --> 00:04:55.839 I think 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:56.219 because 00:04:56.219 --> 00:04:57.339 this if you like 00:04:57.339 --> 00:04:57.939 is the goal 00:04:57.939 --> 00:04:58.959 to which all other things 00:04:58.959 --> 00:04:59.819 become subordinate 00:04:59.819 --> 00:05:00.839 glorifying God 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:01.899 making God look great 00:05:01.899 --> 00:05:03.319 ascribing worth to him 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:04.120 is the reason 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:05.459 for the existence 00:05:05.459 --> 00:05:06.179 of the church 00:05:06.179 --> 00:05:09.120 that the Westminster Confession says 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:10.859 what is the chief end of man 00:05:10.859 --> 00:05:12.120 man exists 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:13.179 to glorify God 00:05:13.179 --> 00:05:14.519 and enjoy him forever 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:16.120 and that's 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:17.099 essentially trying to 00:05:17.099 --> 00:05:17.899 summarize passages 00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:19.339 like Romans 11 00:05:19.339 --> 00:05:20.000 which is there 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:20.659 in front of you 00:05:20.660 --> 00:05:21.380 Romans 11 00:05:21.380 --> 00:05:22.460 is that 00:05:22.460 --> 00:05:23.980 great hymn 00:05:23.980 --> 00:05:25.640 that Paul comes to 00:05:25.640 --> 00:05:26.480 at the end of his 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:27.200 kind of overview 00:05:27.200 --> 00:05:27.840 of the gospel 00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:28.520 and then he 00:05:28.520 --> 00:05:29.800 he summarizes it 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:30.520 by saying this 00:05:30.520 --> 00:05:31.460 oh the depth 00:05:31.460 --> 00:05:32.120 of the riches 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:32.800 of the wisdom 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:33.580 and knowledge of God 00:05:33.580 --> 00:05:34.600 how unsearchable 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:35.160 his judgments 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:36.540 and his paths 00:05:36.540 --> 00:05:37.700 beyond tracing out 00:05:37.700 --> 00:05:38.460 who has known 00:05:38.460 --> 00:05:39.260 the mind of the Lord 00:05:39.260 --> 00:05:40.200 or who has been 00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:41.000 his counselor 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:42.240 who has ever given 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:42.740 to God 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:43.960 that God should repay him 00:05:43.960 --> 00:05:44.980 for from him 00:05:44.980 --> 00:05:46.320 and through him 00:05:46.320 --> 00:05:47.340 and for him 00:05:47.340 --> 00:05:48.379 are all things 00:05:48.379 --> 00:05:49.320 to him be the glory 00:05:49.320 --> 00:05:49.720 forever 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:51.580 everything comes 00:05:51.580 --> 00:05:52.300 from him 00:05:52.300 --> 00:05:53.100 is existing 00:05:53.100 --> 00:05:53.860 through him 00:05:53.860 --> 00:05:54.880 and for him 00:05:54.880 --> 00:05:56.420 and the church 00:05:56.420 --> 00:05:57.160 is part of that 00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:58.040 isn't it 00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:58.900 there to bring 00:05:58.900 --> 00:06:00.580 glory to God 00:06:00.580 --> 00:06:02.500 but if that's true 00:06:02.500 --> 00:06:03.200 of all things 00:06:03.200 --> 00:06:03.900 in general 00:06:03.900 --> 00:06:05.140 it is true 00:06:05.140 --> 00:06:06.000 even more 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:06.700 specifically 00:06:06.700 --> 00:06:08.540 for the church 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:09.240 not just the church 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:09.800 in general 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:11.380 but for a local church 00:06:11.380 --> 00:06:13.580 Ephesians 3 00:06:13.580 --> 00:06:15.360 verse 7 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:16.560 down to verse 11 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:17.519 says this 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.339 Paul writes 00:06:18.339 --> 00:06:19.500 I became a servant 00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:20.399 of this gospel 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.620 by the gift 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:22.259 of God's grace 00:06:22.259 --> 00:06:22.780 given me 00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:23.399 through the working 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:24.120 of his power 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:25.439 although I am less 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:25.899 than the least 00:06:25.899 --> 00:06:26.879 of all the Lord's people 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:27.740 this grace was given 00:06:27.740 --> 00:06:28.199 to me 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:30.019 to preach to the Gentiles 00:06:30.019 --> 00:06:31.180 the boundless riches 00:06:31.180 --> 00:06:31.939 of Christ 00:06:31.939 --> 00:06:33.379 and to make plain 00:06:33.379 --> 00:06:34.100 to everyone 00:06:34.100 --> 00:06:34.959 the administration 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:36.100 of this mystery 00:06:36.100 --> 00:06:38.040 which for ages past 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:38.759 was kept hidden 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:39.160 in God 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:40.480 who created all things 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:41.819 this is his 00:06:41.819 --> 00:06:42.840 mission 00:06:42.840 --> 00:06:44.160 to declare the gospel 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.980 around the nations 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:46.240 to reveal 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:47.040 what had been 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:47.780 kept hidden 00:06:47.780 --> 00:06:48.680 which has now 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:49.400 been made plain 00:06:49.400 --> 00:06:50.480 in the Lord Jesus Christ 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:51.640 his intent 00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:52.360 verse 10 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:53.600 was that now 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.000 through the church 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:56.660 the manifold wisdom 00:06:56.660 --> 00:06:57.200 of God 00:06:57.200 --> 00:06:58.020 should be made 00:06:58.020 --> 00:06:59.000 known to the rulers 00:06:59.000 --> 00:06:59.600 and authorities 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:00.680 in the heavenly realms 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:00.700 ! 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:02.000 According to his 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:02.900 eternal purpose 00:07:02.900 --> 00:07:03.840 that he accomplished 00:07:03.840 --> 00:07:05.120 in Christ Jesus 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:05.720 our Lord 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.680 this is the purpose 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:08.860 of God in the church 00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:09.460 yeah 00:07:09.460 --> 00:07:11.140 that his intent 00:07:11.140 --> 00:07:11.960 was that through 00:07:11.960 --> 00:07:12.420 the church 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:13.900 the manifold wisdom 00:07:13.900 --> 00:07:14.300 of God 00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:15.079 should be made known 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.920 to the rulers 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:18.540 and authorities 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:19.520 in the heavenly realms 00:07:19.520 --> 00:07:21.060 there is a kind of 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:22.540 declaration 00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:24.280 of the glory 00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:25.220 and majesty 00:07:25.220 --> 00:07:26.280 and worthiness 00:07:26.280 --> 00:07:26.900 of God 00:07:26.900 --> 00:07:28.139 in the existence 00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:28.819 of the church 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:30.180 specifically it seems 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:30.680 the existence 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:31.300 of the church 00:07:31.300 --> 00:07:32.819 made up of people 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:33.960 from all nations 00:07:33.960 --> 00:07:35.439 which declares 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:36.139 God's greatness 00:07:36.139 --> 00:07:37.420 his manifold wisdom 00:07:37.420 --> 00:07:38.960 in other words 00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:40.180 if you were to 00:07:40.180 --> 00:07:41.379 go for a walk 00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:42.019 in the countryside 00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:43.180 and to see a kind 00:07:43.180 --> 00:07:43.459 of view 00:07:43.459 --> 00:07:44.779 of a great mountain 00:07:44.779 --> 00:07:45.399 you would like 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:46.079 think wow 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:46.680 I wonder 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:47.759 who made that 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:49.159 God made that 00:07:49.159 --> 00:07:49.819 he must be 00:07:49.819 --> 00:07:51.279 amazing 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:52.199 and glorious 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:53.319 look what a great 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:54.180 painter he is 00:07:54.180 --> 00:07:54.740 what a great 00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:56.099 craftsman he is 00:07:56.099 --> 00:07:56.879 in making that 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:58.219 you are also then 00:07:58.219 --> 00:07:59.740 in a more profound 00:07:59.740 --> 00:08:00.299 way to look 00:08:00.299 --> 00:08:00.939 at a community 00:08:00.939 --> 00:08:01.500 of believers 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:02.099 and say 00:08:02.099 --> 00:08:04.159 what kind of God 00:08:04.159 --> 00:08:04.859 has pulled 00:08:04.859 --> 00:08:05.759 them together 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:07.959 and rescued them 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:09.299 that God 00:08:09.299 --> 00:08:10.359 is a worthy 00:08:10.359 --> 00:08:10.919 God 00:08:10.919 --> 00:08:12.359 a God of glory 00:08:12.359 --> 00:08:13.180 a God we should 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:13.620 praise 00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:16.099 I think there's 00:08:16.099 --> 00:08:16.479 another way 00:08:16.479 --> 00:08:17.419 to prove this 00:08:17.419 --> 00:08:17.680 too 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:18.299 it's because 00:08:18.299 --> 00:08:19.339 the eternal 00:08:19.339 --> 00:08:20.620 purpose of the church 00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:21.599 long after we have 00:08:21.599 --> 00:08:22.399 finished discipling 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:23.019 and evangelizing 00:08:23.019 --> 00:08:23.379 people 00:08:23.379 --> 00:08:24.500 the eternal 00:08:24.500 --> 00:08:25.479 purpose of the church 00:08:25.479 --> 00:08:26.199 is that we would 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:27.060 go on 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:28.179 worshipping 00:08:28.179 --> 00:08:28.959 and declaring 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:29.719 God's glory 00:08:29.719 --> 00:08:30.519 and greatness 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:32.120 Revelation 5 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:33.639 that picture 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:34.639 of John's 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:35.379 vision of heaven 00:08:35.379 --> 00:08:35.899 he says 00:08:35.899 --> 00:08:36.840 worthy is the 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:37.340 lamb who was 00:08:37.340 --> 00:08:37.539 slain 00:08:37.539 --> 00:08:38.179 this is the song 00:08:38.179 --> 00:08:38.559 of heaven 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:39.779 worthy is the 00:08:39.779 --> 00:08:40.219 lamb who was 00:08:40.219 --> 00:08:41.079 slain to receive 00:08:41.079 --> 00:08:42.199 power and wealth 00:08:42.199 --> 00:08:42.860 and wisdom 00:08:42.860 --> 00:08:43.620 and strength 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:44.159 and honour 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:44.740 and glory 00:08:44.740 --> 00:08:45.339 and praise 00:08:45.339 --> 00:08:46.259 then I heard 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:46.959 every creature 00:08:46.959 --> 00:08:47.379 in heaven 00:08:47.379 --> 00:08:47.860 and on earth 00:08:47.860 --> 00:08:48.299 and under the 00:08:48.299 --> 00:08:48.480 earth 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:49.000 and on the 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:49.299 sea 00:08:49.299 --> 00:08:50.179 and all that 00:08:50.179 --> 00:08:50.539 is in them 00:08:50.539 --> 00:08:51.299 saying to him 00:08:51.299 --> 00:08:52.179 who sits on the 00:08:52.179 --> 00:08:52.459 throne 00:08:52.459 --> 00:08:52.899 and to the 00:08:52.899 --> 00:08:53.779 lamb be praise 00:08:53.779 --> 00:08:54.319 and honour 00:08:54.319 --> 00:08:54.980 and glory 00:08:54.980 --> 00:08:55.519 and power 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:56.319 forever and 00:08:56.319 --> 00:08:56.559 ever 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:57.539 and the four 00:08:57.539 --> 00:08:58.120 living creatures 00:08:58.120 --> 00:08:58.879 said amen 00:08:58.879 --> 00:08:59.659 and the elders 00:08:59.659 --> 00:09:00.159 fell down 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:00.860 and worshipped 00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:02.439 the song 00:09:02.439 --> 00:09:02.719 will 00:09:02.719 --> 00:09:03.779 sorry the church 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:05.120 will be eternally 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:06.500 singing of the 00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:06.959 glory 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:07.780 and greatness 00:09:07.780 --> 00:09:08.460 and majesty 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:09.040 of God 00:09:09.040 --> 00:09:09.900 we will be 00:09:09.900 --> 00:09:10.759 singing of his 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:11.860 great worth 00:09:11.860 --> 00:09:12.379 come and sit over 00:09:12.379 --> 00:09:12.820 here Anthony 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:15.460 so I want you to 00:09:15.460 --> 00:09:16.139 with the person 00:09:16.139 --> 00:09:16.660 next to you 00:09:16.660 --> 00:09:17.379 now have a think 00:09:17.379 --> 00:09:18.139 what difference 00:09:18.139 --> 00:09:18.680 does it make 00:09:18.680 --> 00:09:19.800 starting with the 00:09:19.800 --> 00:09:20.440 glory of God 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:21.440 and not the aims 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:22.120 of evangelism 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.900 and discipleship 00:09:22.900 --> 00:09:23.580 how would you 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:24.680 expect church 00:09:24.680 --> 00:09:25.879 to feel different 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:27.240 if it was aiming 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:27.860 at worship 00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:28.560 first 00:09:28.560 --> 00:09:30.019 and not just 00:09:30.019 --> 00:09:31.139 at evangelism 00:09:31.139 --> 00:09:31.980 and discipleship 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:32.980 okay 00:09:32.980 --> 00:09:34.400 have a think about 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:35.620 that with the 00:09:35.620 --> 00:09:36.220 person next to 00:09:36.220 --> 00:09:36.819 you for a moment 00:09:36.819 --> 00:09:40.240 okay what 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:41.120 difference do we 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:41.519 think it would 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:42.439 make starting 00:09:42.439 --> 00:09:44.340 with worship 00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:46.259 and glory 00:09:46.259 --> 00:09:48.899 and not evangelism 00:09:48.899 --> 00:09:49.740 and discipleship 00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:51.539 what difference 00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:51.840 do you think 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:52.399 that might make 00:09:52.399 --> 00:10:00.279 what were you 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:00.759 all talking 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:01.379 about then 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:14.000 okay 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:18.120 mm-hmm 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.519 yeah 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.480 yeah 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:23.860 so 00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:28.860 yep 00:10:28.860 --> 00:10:32.080 yeah 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:32.379 so 00:10:32.379 --> 00:10:33.560 I am not 00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:34.220 just talking 00:10:34.220 --> 00:10:35.080 about singing 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:35.560 no 00:10:35.560 --> 00:10:36.700 so we're 00:10:36.700 --> 00:10:37.419 talking about 00:10:37.419 --> 00:10:39.460 yeah 00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:40.519 glorifying God 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:42.220 in general 00:10:42.220 --> 00:10:42.659 worship 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:43.019 yeah 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:43.779 so I 00:10:43.779 --> 00:10:44.580 we're going to 00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:45.100 talk about 00:10:45.100 --> 00:10:46.740 the gatherings 00:10:46.740 --> 00:10:47.279 of the church 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:48.100 in a moment 00:10:48.100 --> 00:10:49.100 but yes 00:10:49.100 --> 00:10:53.460 yeah 00:10:53.460 --> 00:11:12.400 it's 00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:13.480 it 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:13.480 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:33.500 Yeah, yeah. 00:11:33.500 --> 00:11:47.580 yeah yeah yeah I think I think that's really helpful so I think if we starting with worship 00:11:47.580 --> 00:11:53.080 in God's glory so saying that the church exists to worship God to bring God glory to ascribe worth 00:11:53.080 --> 00:12:00.519 honor to him means that it's not primarily starting with us it means that church is about 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:05.799 the Lord and not about us it's about what he's doing and not about what we're doing the danger 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:10.240 is that if if church is about firstly about evangelism there are things that you might be 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:16.279 tempted to do to cut corners to make church feel slightly more effective and and that would 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:21.399 obviously be a wrong thing to do yeah go on yeah okay 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:37.519 yeah 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:39.519 yeah 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:44.519 yeah 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:48.519 yeah 00:12:48.519 --> 00:13:02.519 yeah yeah so faithfulness just becomes much higher up the agenda doesn't it yeah yeah 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:09.960 okay so that's our primary goal our primary means then um there are obviously many ways to glorify 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:14.399 God many things that we could do and should do and will do that will make God look great but there is 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:20.399 one thing which a church does which is the primary means of bringing God glory a primary tool I think 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:26.959 also for these twin aims of evangelism and discipleship and that is the church gathers right the church 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:33.600 gathers together for worship now I'm sure you don't need me to prove this to you but I'm going to do it 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:38.960 anyway so let's try and work through this together and there should be some scriptures on your handout as 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:47.600 well the point is that you could be an adequate church without lots of things right so you could be 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:57.840 a healthy church that doesn't have a youth work or a toddler group or doesn't have a load of musicians 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:02.639 who are able to play on a on a sunday or doesn't serve really nice coffee after the service or whatever 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.160 you could be an adequate church with any of those things those things might be good things to do 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:14.399 but they're not essential things if you don't gather you're not a church right so church by definition 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:21.679 is a gathering right it's a gathering together of God's people if we don't do that then we're not a 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.919 church we can be even more specific can't we if we don't gather to worship to celebrate the Lord's 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:32.799 Supper and to practice baptism we're not a church because those things have been given to the church by 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:39.839 the Lord Jesus for the means of his glory in a way it's just sort of assumed this in the New 00:14:39.839 --> 00:14:45.039 Testament word ecclesia which is translated church just literally means gathering I think it's used 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:51.279 even of the rioters in Ephesus in the book of Acts who are a gathering of rioters so church essentially 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:56.319 means meeting together gathering together for the purpose of worship it's what's happening all the way 00:14:56.319 --> 00:15:01.199 through the book of Acts and it probably the simplest place to show it is there in Hebrews 10 which is 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:08.160 there on your handout in verse 19 therefore brothers and sisters since we have confidence to enter the 00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:13.680 most holy place by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way open for us through the curtain that is his 00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:20.000 body and since we have a great high priest over the house of God let us draw near to God with a sincere 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:25.680 heart and with full assurance that faith brings having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:32.559 conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water let us hold unswervingly to the hope we 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:38.559 profess for he who promised is faithful and let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:43.519 and good deeds not giving up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing but encouraging one 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:49.679 another and all the more as you see the day approaching you get the sense don't you that the the church has 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:57.199 experienced salvation for the purpose of gathering for worship is why it's full of old testament language 00:15:57.839 --> 00:16:04.079 and verse 25 is pretty clear that this meeting together is good for us as well as glorifying for 00:16:04.079 --> 00:16:10.959 God so the church has a primary means of bringing God's glory which is gathering together for corporate 00:16:10.959 --> 00:16:16.479 worship worship which involves singing praise it involves reading God's word it involves the preaching of 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:21.360 God's word it involves praying it involves practicing baptism and lord supper together 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.639 why do you think then and this is the next question just to discuss with the person next 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:31.360 you why do you think the new testament places such a high value on the church meeting together 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:37.759 for the purpose of corporate worship why do you think that's so important in the new testament 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:46.159 because it's probably fair to say that most christians don't think that gathering together is 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:53.600 quite as important as hebrews 10 25 might suggest that it is certainly the people who are the first 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.360 readers of hebrews are not thinking that it's as important as it really is which is why 00:16:58.079 --> 00:17:04.799 verse 25 is written to them don't give it up as some as in the habit of doing so why do you think it does 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:08.000 have a talk with the person next to you and we'll come back together 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:18.240 okay what are our thoughts why do you think the new testament places such a high value on the church 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.200 meeting together for corporate worship 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:34.640 okay 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:47.520 yes yeah yeah thank you but encouraging one other and all the more as you see the day approaching yeah 00:17:48.320 --> 00:18:02.640 yeah it anticipates it's going to be hard to keep going and you will need encouragement of meeting with other believers 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:14.880 yes 00:18:17.120 --> 00:18:20.880 that's really helpful did you hear that so the the church meeting together with 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:27.759 a a diverse group of people enables us to be way more balanced as christians because we're hearing from one 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:28.000 another 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:39.039 yes yes yeah that's really helpful thanks mike yeah anything else 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:53.920 yes 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:53.920 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:16.559 yes yes so it enables you to benefit from the gifts of others doesn't it yeah that you don't 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:26.279 have yourself yeah that's really helpful i think i'd want to add that there's there's a movement 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:33.039 in the bible isn't there that we are in one sense genesis one and two the garden of eden is like a 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.099 kind of mini temple in the in the presence of god and they are they are living and enjoying the 00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:42.339 presence of god and they are excluded from it so they've they've entered into god's rest on the 00:19:42.339 --> 00:19:48.019 seventh day and are with him in his place yeah worshiping him living their lives in front of him 00:19:48.019 --> 00:19:53.980 for his glory enjoying the benefits of his provision for them and then they are excluded from it and then 00:19:53.980 --> 00:20:00.059 if you like in in the old testament temple worship they get a they get a sort of window back into what 00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:06.779 it might be like to live in the presence of god in temple worship and now in the new testament in the 00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:12.019 gathering of the local church here in hebrews using all this old testament language for for 00:20:12.019 --> 00:20:17.039 being sprinkled with the with the blood of the lord jesus and being brought near to him and gathering 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:22.119 in his presence there's a sense in which that the the high value on the church meeting together is 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:27.420 because this is where it's going right this now is a taste of where we will be 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:33.819 you know this idea that we're going to be gathered together in the presence of god hearing from his word 00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:41.099 delighting in what he has done reveling at the lord jesus christ meeting with one another that that's 00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:48.139 that's our destiny and so on each kind of lord's day we gather at the beginning of the week to enjoy 00:20:48.139 --> 00:20:53.919 the rest of being with the lord and with his people worshiping and ascribing worth to him as a 00:20:53.919 --> 00:21:00.700 as a foretaste a glimpse of where we will be for all eternity and so that's why you know that's why 00:21:00.700 --> 00:21:06.480 you can't you know you become a christian and you by definition become a member of a local church it 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:12.080 you know it it brings you into the people of god doesn't it because you're part of this gathering 00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:18.700 that god is is is gathering people from the nations uh for that great and glorious day okay so 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:26.500 if it's if the goal of the local church is to bring god glory if if its primary means is this kind of 00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:32.740 corporate gathering then there are two twin aims which um i know many of us started with 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:41.180 the the church uh is meant to disciple and uh evangelize so turn to matthew 28 it's there on 00:21:41.180 --> 00:21:47.039 your sheet matthew 28 verse 18 and this is what we're to be doing to bring god glory 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:52.420 then jesus came and said to them all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me 00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:57.700 therefore go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father and of 00:21:57.700 --> 00:22:03.180 the son and of the holy spirit and teaching them to obey everything i have commanded you 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:10.380 and surely i am with you always to the very end of the age so the church is to go about making 00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:17.779 disciples isn't it specifically it seems going and making them and then baptizing them into the church 00:22:17.779 --> 00:22:23.859 and teaching them obedience we put those two labels on it don't we evangelism and discipleship 00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:29.519 now notice that's not a entirely separate activity to the gathering of the church it's not that the 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:35.259 church is meant to gather to worship god and also to evangelize and disciple it seems to me that the 00:22:35.259 --> 00:22:42.920 gathering of the local church is the means that the lord gives us to evangelize and to build us up in 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:48.120 discipleship new testament is clear isn't it that the church should expect unbelievers to be present 00:22:48.120 --> 00:22:52.740 with them when they gather and they should explain what they're doing accordingly new testament church 00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:57.200 is told more than that it's the display of the love and unity of the church which is one of the most 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:02.259 powerful evidences for the work of god amongst them it's our most powerful apologetic if you like 00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:09.019 is god real does he really save people yeah come and see come and see what the local church is like 00:23:09.019 --> 00:23:13.940 the new testament is also very clear that you can't disciple believers without the gathering of the local church 00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:20.119 but still these activities of evangelism and discipleship are so central to our mission that we're doing them in lots 00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:26.960 of other ways too so look at these verses with me at the central command in the section is to make disciples 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:33.240 it's not to go the go is passive but the the emphasis is on making and not going but of course the going is 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:38.400 important you have to leave your house and leave the gatherings of the church to meet people 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:44.420 and reach out to them with the gospel making disciples includes fishing for men as jesus talked about 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:50.620 interestingly in the new testament this going seems to consist of going and starting other churches in 00:23:50.620 --> 00:23:56.180 other localities that don't have one so that they may own the mission to that local area and carry on 00:23:56.180 --> 00:24:02.860 fishing for disciples at the mass of people in each place then that the making of disciples involves the 00:24:02.859 --> 00:24:09.719 teaching obedience notice it's obedience in everything i have commanded so the church is to teach believers 00:24:09.719 --> 00:24:15.679 how to obey jesus how to live for him in each and every area of their life and notice two key things 00:24:15.679 --> 00:24:21.019 here firstly notice that the content of the teaching is the commands of jesus you know that this is similar 00:24:21.019 --> 00:24:26.319 to what we're thinking about this morning that jesus word accomplishes his purpose this means it's not 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:33.000 the job of the church to run seminars or sermons on every single ethical question every church member might face 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:39.279 right you know that that's impossible it's it's an impossible task for any church leader to try and address 00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:46.399 every single question that every individual is going to face instead we know that teaching the word of jesus 00:24:46.399 --> 00:24:53.240 the commands of jesus is sufficient for all of us as following him that's 2 timothy 3 16 and 17 isn't it 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:58.839 which is on your at the back of your handout all scripture is god breathed and is useful for teaching 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:04.819 and we need teaching rebuking and we need rebuking correcting training in righteousness so that the 00:25:04.819 --> 00:25:11.359 servant of god may be thoroughly equipped for every good work just read the verse backwards with me 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:18.380 there it there is no good work that you need to be thoroughly equipped for but the scriptures will not 00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:25.400 equip you for so if your church is teaching you the scriptures they are discipling you for every 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:31.720 and any situation that you may face even if they don't address it directly the second thing to notice 00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:37.560 is that teaching the commands of jesus is done in the strength of the spirit so he is with us always to 00:25:37.560 --> 00:25:43.440 the end of the age jesus's ongoing presence with his church by the spirit makes the teaching of the word 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:49.259 jesus effective in the lives of the people who come so let me just try and put this together just as we 00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:56.720 finish right the church exists to worship god to bring god glory and it does that as it gathers 00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:02.720 and as it gathers it gathers to reach unbelievers with the gospel and teach and disciple believers 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:09.880 so with that in mind i've got you can pick one of these right talk about with the person next to you 00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:14.720 a church in the neighborhood has stopped meeting together centrally because it thinks small groups 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:22.300 are more effective for evangelism and discipleship is that a good idea why why not a church decides 00:26:22.300 --> 00:26:25.920 that it's more friendly to outsiders if they're going to stop praying together in their services 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:30.500 instead they have moments of silence for the believers in the room to pray in their hearts is 00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:37.900 that a good idea why or why not knowing that people are reluctant to change a local church has not 00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:42.519 really asked the question should we still do it like this about their corporate gatherings what are 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:50.240 the dangers for them maybe there are none maybe there are some you can pick one and go for it and 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:57.060 we'll just have a brief look at those and then we'll sing to close okay 00:26:57.059 --> 00:27:07.440 i'm sorry to interrupt your conversations we're going to try and make sure that we finish by half past 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:14.240 say does anyone want to who did the first one did anyone do the first one mike and sammy you did the 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:21.240 first one what do you think 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:29.240 yeah 00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:36.240 yeah 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:42.240 yeah 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.240 yeah 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.240 yeah 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.240 yeah 00:27:50.240 --> 00:28:09.240 yeah 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.240 yeah 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:17.579 yeah so really either i think what you're saying i don't want to oversimplify it mike but i think 00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:21.579 basically what you're saying is either these small groups should become churches themselves 00:28:21.579 --> 00:28:27.179 and do all the things that local churches should do or they should keep gathering as a church as one 00:28:27.179 --> 00:28:36.659 church yeah i did anyone else do the first one so anyone else want to chip in on that yes yes so 00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:39.860 the group should be in addition to the group should be in addition to yeah 00:28:39.860 --> 00:28:42.820 right 00:28:42.820 --> 00:28:45.400 that shouldn't happen 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:47.259 yeah yeah yeah yeah 00:28:47.259 --> 00:28:51.660 yeah 00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:55.660 yeah 00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:55.660 00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:57.660 yeah 00:28:57.660 --> 00:28:59.660 yes 00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:03.700 that's a really good point the small group it might be a really difficult way for 00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:06.700 people to find the church yeah 00:29:06.700 --> 00:29:06.700 00:29:06.700 --> 00:29:07.700 yeah 00:29:07.700 --> 00:29:15.440 i think that the it's unlikely in a small group that you're going to be able to do all the functions of a church 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:21.460 net and say actually that means that you're essentially saying that something less than a gathering of 00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:27.059 god's people is what we're going to do and i think that's unhelpful as no yeah 00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:32.059 yeah okay go on 00:29:32.059 --> 00:29:35.919 so what is the practical minimum 00:29:35.919 --> 00:29:36.799 uh 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.399 to make for a natural church 00:29:40.399 --> 00:29:41.319 yeah 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.019 what is the practical minimum 00:29:44.019 --> 00:29:45.919 to make for a natural church 00:29:45.919 --> 00:29:47.559 okay 00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:51.940 yeah that's right 10 men for a synagogue 00:29:51.940 --> 00:29:52.399 yeah 00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:55.400 so i don't think it's that i think um 00:29:55.400 --> 00:30:21.400 see i think it needs to be more than one person right so i i i think there's that i i think there needs to be something about leadership in the church so i think there's a um we're given the role of elders and deacons it seems in the new testament that unless a church has elders it's disordered and not really functioning properly you need to practice lord's supper you need to practice baptism there needs to be regular gatherings under the word of god um 00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:22.700 um yeah 00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:22.740 um yeah 00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:37.640 so i i think there might be there might be instances where lots of very small churches meeting together might be the most sensible way to do it particularly in situations of persecution um rather than one central gathering yeah 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:48.640 yes 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:52.640 yes 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:53.140 yes 00:30:53.140 --> 00:30:53.640 yes 00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:54.480 yeah 00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:55.640 yeah 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:56.640 yeah 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.259 yeah 00:30:57.259 --> 00:31:02.040 you think of the house church movement in china and how that's been used by the lord yeah 00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:04.920 okay okay what about number two 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.500 should we stop praying together to make ourselves more friendly to the outsiders 00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:14.619 joe what did you say because i was in your group what did you say 00:31:14.619 --> 00:31:21.920 what did you say do you think church should stop praying together to be more friendly 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.240 yes 00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:29.160 you disagree with it i think 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.700 great 00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:36.980 i think you're right joe yes church shouldn't stop praying 00:31:36.980 --> 00:31:38.319 yeah 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:40.279 it's um 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.559 it is possible for churches to sacrifice 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:47.980 too much to try and be friendly to outsiders it seems in the new testament that actually as long as we're explaining what we're doing 00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:52.120 in fact the sense that it's kind of mysterious to outsiders is part of 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:55.639 part of what it should be what about the third one 00:31:55.639 --> 00:32:00.279 did anyone get that far or anyone start there 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:09.519 yeah it sounds pretty desperate yes 00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:11.000 yeah 00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:12.739 yeah 00:32:12.739 --> 00:32:12.819 yeah 00:32:12.819 --> 00:32:19.699 it seems like churches are specifically located in a time and a place doesn't it 00:32:19.700 --> 00:32:23.380 and so we've got to think about the time and the place that we're located in 00:32:23.380 --> 00:32:27.299 um obviously there are boundaries about what we are and aren't to do 00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:31.500 but in inside of those boundaries we are to ask the question of where am i 00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.740 and what time is it in order to decide what we do 00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:36.240 great 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:39.620 thank you let me pray for us and our church and then we'll 00:32:39.620 --> 00:32:42.819 stand and sing oh church arise as we close 00:32:42.819 --> 00:32:49.700 father in heaven we thank you so much for your great and glorious plan of salvation 00:32:49.700 --> 00:32:55.539 that gathers people like us together in local churches where you display your glory 00:32:55.539 --> 00:32:57.139 in our diversity 00:32:57.139 --> 00:32:58.559 how we thank you 00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:02.659 that we see that here in our church and we praise you for it 00:33:02.659 --> 00:33:08.539 and ask lord that you would help us to bring you great glory to worship you truly and faithfully 00:33:08.539 --> 00:33:14.740 and that in doing that we would reach many more with the good news of the lord jesus and disciple 00:33:14.740 --> 00:33:19.960 and train one another to live to your praise and glory in jesus name amen