WEBVTT 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:05.360 Well, first of all, can I just say what a great pleasure it is for me to be here at Brunsfield. 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.779 I've not been here for a long time, but years ago I used to come fairly regularly, 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:15.400 and so it is a pleasure for me to renew my contact with this church fellowship. 00:00:16.019 --> 00:00:18.460 And thank you very much for asking me to tackle this subject, 00:00:18.580 --> 00:00:21.980 Do I Have to Choose Between Science and Faith? 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:27.519 My qualifications to speak about science is that science has been a large part of my life. 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:29.879 I have a degree in chemistry. 00:00:30.759 --> 00:00:32.899 I hold a PhD in chemistry. 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:35.719 I did research at university and some teaching, 00:00:35.879 --> 00:00:38.799 but I spent most of my life in secondary education teaching chemistry. 00:00:39.460 --> 00:00:42.879 I was an HMI in Scotland in the sciences, 00:00:43.500 --> 00:00:45.960 and I eventually became a Deputy Director of Education. 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:50.100 So most of my life has been concerned with science and science education. 00:00:51.060 --> 00:00:54.219 And, of course, you couldn't be a Christian these days 00:00:54.219 --> 00:01:01.039 without sensing that there is a very significant tension between science and faith. 00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:06.879 This tension is kind of summed up by the new prophetess, Greta, 00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:08.120 who says, 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:10.599 Don't believe me, believe the science. 00:01:11.420 --> 00:01:15.140 And so if you can claim that science is on your side in any matter, 00:01:15.620 --> 00:01:17.939 then that is beyond dispute. 00:01:18.739 --> 00:01:20.120 This is a particular problem, 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:22.160 because science doesn't deal in certainties. 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:23.400 It deals in probabilities. 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:26.380 The science is settled, people say. 00:01:26.460 --> 00:01:28.120 Well, science is never settled, actually. 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:30.760 There are quite a number of things in science 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:34.120 that are settled as much as can be. 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:40.719 But science is always open to innovation and to new directions. 00:01:41.500 --> 00:01:45.020 And, in fact, science is never determined by the consensus. 00:01:45.019 --> 00:01:48.679 The consensus in science can change very rapidly, 00:01:49.119 --> 00:01:53.599 and often changes as the results of the findings of one individual. 00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:55.739 Science is not done by committee. 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:57.359 It's done by experimentation. 00:01:57.780 --> 00:01:58.899 It's done by scientists. 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:01.899 And very often the scientific consensus changes, 00:02:02.179 --> 00:02:03.299 sometimes quite rapidly, 00:02:03.759 --> 00:02:05.899 and often on the basis of new evidence 00:02:05.899 --> 00:02:10.300 that's uncovered by one scientist or by a group of scientists. 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:12.519 But you can't question science. 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:14.680 And there are some areas of our lives 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:18.200 where science demands to be accepted. 00:02:18.420 --> 00:02:20.060 Climate change is one of them. 00:02:20.740 --> 00:02:22.400 What you don't hear about, of course, 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.879 is the minority of scientists who dispute climate change. 00:02:27.379 --> 00:02:28.879 And the problem for them is 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:31.020 they are subject to personal attack, 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:32.680 their research grants are cut off, 00:02:33.160 --> 00:02:36.480 they're sidelined on the UN committees that deal with this. 00:02:36.920 --> 00:02:39.580 The BBC won't allow any dissenters on climate change 00:02:39.580 --> 00:02:41.240 on any programme to do with climate. 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:44.320 So what happens is that there's a consensus 00:02:44.320 --> 00:02:48.240 based on what the academy decides, right or wrong, 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.340 and it's very hard to challenge that. 00:02:51.820 --> 00:02:53.280 And part of the reason for this is that 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.800 science has such immense credibility. 00:02:56.680 --> 00:03:00.040 In my lifetime, and over the last 100 or 150 years, 00:03:00.160 --> 00:03:02.140 science has made such enormous advances 00:03:02.140 --> 00:03:04.820 that affect all our lives for the good. 00:03:05.320 --> 00:03:07.540 And therefore, if science says something, 00:03:07.539 --> 00:03:11.120 then who are you or who are any of us to question it? 00:03:11.500 --> 00:03:13.459 And so these things go unchallenged. 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:17.180 And I don't know a great deal about climate change. 00:03:17.659 --> 00:03:20.159 I know enough to be suspicious of it. 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:23.419 I mean, I only discovered about a year ago 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:26.539 that the most common greenhouse gas is... 00:03:26.539 --> 00:03:28.639 No, it's not. 00:03:29.780 --> 00:03:30.840 No, it's not. 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:32.379 It's water vapour. 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.680 20 times more significant than carbon dioxide. 00:03:36.099 --> 00:03:38.039 Now, that was the first thing that made me think, 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.780 wait a minute, there's potentially a problem here. 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:44.019 If water vapour is the most significant greenhouse gas, 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.439 why are we getting so worked up about carbon dioxide? 00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:48.599 So that was a question that worried me. 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:52.039 And then why in the past did we have eras of human history 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:54.519 that were warmer than now when we had no motorcars 00:03:54.519 --> 00:03:55.859 and we weren't using carbon? 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:57.879 And why did we have ice ages in the past? 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.719 Is it possible that climate change is affected by the sun 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.620 and that that's the key problem, not carbon dioxide? 00:04:03.739 --> 00:04:05.079 But as I say, I don't know much about it. 00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:07.859 So I'm only just trying to make the point to you 00:04:07.859 --> 00:04:10.739 that there are certainties that arise from science 00:04:10.739 --> 00:04:13.079 that cannot be challenged. 00:04:13.219 --> 00:04:15.699 And the other area that cannot be challenged in science 00:04:15.699 --> 00:04:18.879 is that you cannot challenge the science of origins. 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.980 The science of origins is settled. 00:04:23.579 --> 00:04:24.719 So don't dare challenge it. 00:04:25.180 --> 00:04:26.839 And the same phenomenon happens there. 00:04:26.939 --> 00:04:30.060 There are a growing number of scientists who dissent 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:32.839 from the neo-Darwinian conception of nature. 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:36.759 And what happens to them is that their reputations are trashed, 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:39.879 their careers are threatened, and they are sidelined. 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.420 So the best thing to do if you want to feed your family 00:04:42.420 --> 00:04:44.339 and keep a roof above your head is shut up. 00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:50.359 And so once again, you have the domination of origins by science, 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:52.139 which is unchallengeable. 00:04:52.259 --> 00:04:53.500 Now, I know a little about this, 00:04:53.819 --> 00:04:56.399 and I've spent the last decade or more thinking about it. 00:04:56.799 --> 00:04:59.519 And of course, I would have, as I'll try and indicate tonight to you, 00:04:59.799 --> 00:05:04.559 some serious reservations about the current direction of science and origins. 00:05:04.719 --> 00:05:08.699 But having said all that, I would want to say absolutely clearly 00:05:08.699 --> 00:05:12.659 that science is a very powerful reality in our world. 00:05:13.339 --> 00:05:17.879 And all of us, one way or another, have benefited from the advances in science. 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:20.680 I had appendicitis when I was seven years old, 00:05:21.039 --> 00:05:23.120 the only kind of major illness I've ever had. 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:27.019 And had I not been treated with antibiotics, I probably wouldn't be here tonight. 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.740 So I do understand the significance and power of science. 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:33.439 And you might ask the question, well, what is science? 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:38.319 Well, science is really the logical study of the natural world. 00:05:39.019 --> 00:05:43.100 It's the study of nature and the laws that govern nature. 00:05:43.540 --> 00:05:46.259 And the great breakthrough in science several hundred years ago 00:05:46.259 --> 00:05:49.500 with the pioneers of modern science was that they set aside 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:52.439 all the pagan nonsense about gods fighting 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:55.279 and displaying their anger and thunder and lightning 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:59.139 and concentrated on natural laws and how natural laws operated. 00:05:59.620 --> 00:06:01.800 And science is the study of natural laws. 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:06.500 And of course, it's understandable that scientists will only want explanations 00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:11.620 in terms of natural laws and natural processes and biological processes 00:06:11.620 --> 00:06:14.780 because that's the way we understand the world as it is. 00:06:15.080 --> 00:06:15.960 There's a problem, though. 00:06:16.500 --> 00:06:20.319 What happens when you come to ask the question 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.199 about how the natural laws got here? 00:06:23.840 --> 00:06:26.780 And that's where science gets into a bit of a fankel 00:06:26.780 --> 00:06:29.560 because what has happened in modern science 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.819 is not just that we have elucidated the natural laws, 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:38.780 but that we have insisted that there is no explanation beyond natural laws. 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:40.720 And that's no longer science. 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:41.920 That becomes philosophy. 00:06:42.300 --> 00:06:43.120 That's a worldview. 00:06:44.620 --> 00:06:47.519 That there cannot be anything beyond the natural laws. 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.819 And therefore, that makes the question, 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:54.779 where did the natural laws come from, virtually unanswerable. 00:06:54.779 --> 00:06:58.219 Because if there's no agency beyond natural laws, 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:01.500 then the natural laws must be responsible for the natural laws, 00:07:01.619 --> 00:07:03.699 which is philosophically incoherent. 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:08.179 Or perhaps the emerging scientific position about origins 00:07:08.179 --> 00:07:10.259 is that they came out of nothing, 00:07:10.859 --> 00:07:12.339 which is pretty absurd. 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.259 So you see, when you come to think about origins 00:07:15.259 --> 00:07:17.399 and where the universe came from 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:18.959 and what's beyond the universe, 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:22.319 then science is, in some sense, rather powerless. 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:24.719 And it's interesting that in the modern world, 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:27.060 it is philosophy that's leading the way. 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.240 In the philosophical schools in our world and in our country, 00:07:31.699 --> 00:07:33.740 there are a significant number of people 00:07:33.740 --> 00:07:35.579 who recognize that philosophically, 00:07:36.019 --> 00:07:38.959 there has to be a creative agency beyond nature 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:40.579 because there's no other way 00:07:40.579 --> 00:07:44.659 in which we can understand nature as we encounter it. 00:07:44.740 --> 00:07:46.659 And I must tell you a little incident I had about this. 00:07:47.159 --> 00:07:49.539 I was at a school six-form conference 00:07:49.540 --> 00:07:51.200 with a hundred pupils. 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.180 And there was a panel of people, 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:55.939 including myself and somebody from the Humanist Society, 00:07:56.420 --> 00:07:57.860 and one of the pupils asked, 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.700 does the panel believe that the scientific explanations 00:08:01.700 --> 00:08:03.879 for the origin of life and of the universe 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:05.420 are the best explanations? 00:08:06.020 --> 00:08:07.700 And there was a moment or two silence, 00:08:07.820 --> 00:08:10.320 and I said, well, maybe I could offer a view in that. 00:08:10.379 --> 00:08:14.020 I said, I wasn't aware that science had an explanation 00:08:14.020 --> 00:08:17.140 for the origin of life or the origin of the universe. 00:08:17.139 --> 00:08:20.479 And my Humanist colleague nearly exploded at that point, 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:21.919 had a bit of a fit, and shouted at me, 00:08:21.939 --> 00:08:22.899 who made God then? 00:08:23.500 --> 00:08:25.379 And I said, well, I didn't mention God. 00:08:25.479 --> 00:08:28.339 I just said I wasn't aware of a scientific explanation 00:08:28.339 --> 00:08:29.620 for the origin of things. 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:31.740 And so we had this back and fro, 00:08:31.860 --> 00:08:34.259 or this rather heated discussion about God. 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:36.659 And then he said to me this very odd thing. 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:40.019 He said to me, why can't you just believe 00:08:40.019 --> 00:08:41.779 that the universe always existed? 00:08:42.460 --> 00:08:44.759 And I said to him, I thought that was your problem with God. 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:48.360 And at that point, a wry smile crossed his face, 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:50.299 and he understood the problem. 00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:55.179 The problem is that there has to be some cause of the universe 00:08:55.179 --> 00:08:59.439 which is not itself caused, the first cause. 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:03.799 And that, of course, makes science entirely intelligible 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:08.080 if you believe that there is a creator who created the universe, 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:11.779 and indeed that's the direction in which science and philosophy, 00:09:11.779 --> 00:09:15.279 and if I may say so, common sense points. 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:16.639 Let me pause for a minute. 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:19.000 I brought one or two books with me tonight, 00:09:19.079 --> 00:09:20.459 which I'd like you to have a look at. 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:24.500 I have just recently written a little book called 00:09:24.500 --> 00:09:27.879 Born in a Golden Age, which is part autobiographical, 00:09:28.079 --> 00:09:29.659 but which has a couple of chapters in it 00:09:29.659 --> 00:09:31.879 about the matters that we'll talk about tonight, 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:35.639 about intelligent design, evolution, creation, and so on. 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.539 So I have some copies of that tonight. 00:09:37.539 --> 00:09:41.099 I also write other chapters about things that have been important to me, 00:09:41.439 --> 00:09:43.879 like family matters, the Plymouth brethren, 00:09:44.319 --> 00:09:47.039 Christians in the marketplace, and why I am a Christian. 00:09:47.139 --> 00:09:50.799 So this is part autobiography, part apologetics, 00:09:51.219 --> 00:09:52.439 and there are copies of it there. 00:09:52.539 --> 00:09:53.240 Please take one. 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:55.819 I have also written a little pamphlet 00:09:55.819 --> 00:09:59.099 entitled An Introduction to Intelligent Design, 00:09:59.459 --> 00:10:01.039 and these are available over there too. 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:03.079 I also have a very excellent DVD 00:10:03.079 --> 00:10:06.299 which deals with the science of origins and design 00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:09.599 called Expelled, and there are a number of copies there, 00:10:09.959 --> 00:10:13.019 and a book that I would recommend for students at high school 00:10:13.019 --> 00:10:16.120 or at university entitled Explore Evolution. 00:10:16.299 --> 00:10:17.899 This is not a religious book. 00:10:17.980 --> 00:10:20.039 This is a book that looks at the science of Darwin 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.399 and looks at the contrary arguments. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:26.339 I'd advise you to get a copy for your family who are students 00:10:26.339 --> 00:10:27.620 or your grandchildren. 00:10:27.620 --> 00:10:31.139 This is an excellent book that will not only help them 00:10:31.139 --> 00:10:32.340 with their studies in evolution, 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:34.700 but will also give them a degree of resilience 00:10:34.700 --> 00:10:38.799 when they look at the science that is claimed to be unquestionable. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:39.879 These are available. 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.259 If you're a student or a pensioner, 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:44.840 please just take what you want. 00:10:45.940 --> 00:10:48.039 This one is absolutely free. 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:48.779 Just take it. 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.659 If you can leave me five pounds for the others, 00:10:51.779 --> 00:10:52.700 that's five pounds each, 00:10:52.899 --> 00:10:53.799 then I'd be grateful. 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:57.240 But please don't make money an obstacle. 00:10:57.459 --> 00:10:58.919 Just help yourself to what's there. 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:04.419 So I would like tonight to deal with just three questions briefly, 00:11:04.419 --> 00:11:05.240 if I can. 00:11:05.539 --> 00:11:07.579 And maybe to your astonishment, 00:11:08.439 --> 00:11:13.319 my first point is that science depends on faith. 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:16.299 I'll explain what I mean in a moment. 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:21.059 The second thing I want to speak about is that science dismisses faith. 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:22.659 I think we're pretty familiar with that. 00:11:22.659 --> 00:11:25.939 And thirdly, I want to say a little controversially, 00:11:26.439 --> 00:11:29.319 that science actually develops faith. 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:31.000 So let me come to the first of these, 00:11:31.139 --> 00:11:33.799 which is that science depends on faith. 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:38.299 Now, a very interesting book that came from Solis and Dundee, 00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:42.939 entitled Why I Am Not an Atheist, 00:11:43.439 --> 00:11:48.779 has this rather interesting chapter at the beginning by Donald Bruce, 00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:49.399 where he says, 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:52.159 I am a scientist and I think like one. 00:11:52.579 --> 00:11:57.679 This is one of the main reasons I am not an atheist. 00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:01.559 So here is a representative of a body of scientists, 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:02.819 and I would be one of these, 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:06.500 which is the reason why I couldn't be an atheist is because I'm a scientist. 00:12:07.139 --> 00:12:09.720 And because science has taught us so much about the universe, 00:12:10.079 --> 00:12:13.059 it just seems to me impossible to be an atheist. 00:12:13.059 --> 00:12:20.779 And not least, of course, is what we now understand about the human mind and the human brain. 00:12:21.719 --> 00:12:26.599 One of the most mysterious things about our existence is our consciousness. 00:12:26.839 --> 00:12:28.659 You're all sitting there listening to me tonight. 00:12:29.139 --> 00:12:33.139 I'm not sure if you've ever started thinking about your mind and your consciousness. 00:12:33.139 --> 00:12:38.059 I had a lecturer at university who tried to teach us something about consciousness. 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.419 I wasn't listening that well because I was more interested in the chemistry, 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:42.679 but I do remember him saying, 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:45.980 once you start thinking about thinking, it's worse than drinking. 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.460 But actually, having been brought up in the brethren, 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:50.120 I didn't know anything about drinking. 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.960 But the line stayed with me nevertheless. 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:58.220 And of course, one of the most mysterious things about the universe we live in 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:01.759 is the sheer complexity of the brain. 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:06.980 The connections in our brain, the neurological connections, are mind-blowing. 00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:14.120 And recently, a world-renowned philosopher and lawyer, Thomas Nagel, 00:13:14.540 --> 00:13:18.120 published this book entitled Mind and Cosmos. 00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:20.720 It's the subtitle that's intriguing. 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:25.920 It's why the neo-Darwinian conception of nature is almost certainly false. 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:34.099 And Nagel's argument is that any theory that cannot begin to comprehend the complexity of consciousness 00:13:34.099 --> 00:13:36.099 is not explaining anything. 00:13:36.219 --> 00:13:39.259 And of course, the Darwinian view of consciousness is that consciousness 00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:42.799 is just an accidental byproduct of physics and chemistry. 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:45.899 And Nagel's view would be, well, if you can believe that, you'll believe anything 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:51.019 because consciousness is the ultimate reality of our existence. 00:13:51.019 --> 00:13:56.100 And if we can't begin to explain that, then we really actually haven't got very far. 00:13:56.439 --> 00:14:00.699 And he makes this remarkable statement about neo-Darwinism, 00:14:01.079 --> 00:14:06.919 that it's a triumph of ideological theory over common sense. 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.179 Now, the interesting thing about Nagel is, and this is breathtaking, 00:14:11.860 --> 00:14:13.319 Nagel is an atheist. 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:19.740 But he's wise enough to see that science really hasn't got anywhere with understanding consciousness. 00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:26.940 To those of us who are Christians and who sense that we live in a universe made by God, 00:14:27.259 --> 00:14:31.879 I think we understand that the mystery of consciousness has got something to do with a connection 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:36.680 to the supreme intelligence that made and maintains the universe. 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:38.879 John Lennox has an interesting observation on this. 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:39.659 He says, 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.180 Either human intelligence ultimately owes its origin to mindless matter, 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:44.620 or there is a creator. 00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:52.299 It is strange that some people claim that it is their intelligence that leads them to prefer the first to the second. 00:14:52.659 --> 00:14:55.539 And I think that's a very trenchant view on this. 00:14:56.299 --> 00:15:00.580 Keith Ward, Oxford philosopher, has an interesting book entitled, 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.360 Why There Almost Certainly Is a God. 00:15:02.779 --> 00:15:07.960 And his argument is, if anything exists, then God almost certainly exists. 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.700 And it's pretty obvious that anything exists. 00:15:10.700 --> 00:15:14.080 So therefore it's pretty obvious that God exists. 00:15:14.680 --> 00:15:19.200 But one of the things that young people in our generation, 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.340 and scientists generally perhaps don't recognize, is, 00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:26.220 and this is the key point about science depending on faith, 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:31.680 the pioneers of Western science, the great pioneers of Western science, 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:36.220 believed that science was only possible 00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:40.620 because the universe was designed and predictable. 00:15:41.139 --> 00:15:45.660 You could only do science if behind the universe there is a designer 00:15:45.660 --> 00:15:49.379 and design and laws that are predictable. 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.220 So scientific laws can tell us what happens, 00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:56.879 and we expect that to happen tomorrow and the next day and the day after that. 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:02.019 And it's that predictability which the pioneers of science recognized 00:16:02.019 --> 00:16:05.040 and believed that science depends on faith. 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:09.559 It depends on faith in a creator who has made the world logically 00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.019 in a way that we can perceive it. 00:16:12.079 --> 00:16:13.779 That's a remarkable thing. 00:16:14.319 --> 00:16:17.480 And indeed, all the pioneers of Western science, 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:21.779 Kepler, Copernicus, Lord Kelvin, Clark Maxwell, 00:16:22.099 --> 00:16:25.039 these were all devout believers in God. 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:27.980 And actually all of them, almost without exception, 00:16:28.299 --> 00:16:29.480 were practicing Christians. 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.860 So the idea that science and faith are in conflict 00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:36.980 is a kind of balmy idea because it was actually faith 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:39.039 that gave us science in the first place. 00:16:39.680 --> 00:16:42.659 And if you ever visit the Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge, 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.800 this is where the structure of DNA was first elucidated. 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:49.879 You'll find across the doors of the Cavendish Laboratory, 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.720 reflecting an age of faith more significant than the one we live in, 00:16:54.980 --> 00:16:56.019 across it it says, 00:16:56.019 --> 00:17:01.439 the works of the Lord of Great sought out by all those that have pleasure therein. 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.740 And the Cavendish Laboratory, in a way, 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:07.299 symbolizes this understanding of science, 00:17:07.639 --> 00:17:12.220 that it's only possible if we believe we are exploring the works of a great creator. 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:16.139 But of course, we live in an age when science dismisses faith. 00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:20.500 And it does so in pretty brutal terms. 00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:23.819 I mean, here's some of the cartoons you'll see. 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:25.779 And this one says, 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:30.759 tell the neighbors that creation's back in town. 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:32.759 You know, the whole thing is a laughing matter. 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:36.779 Here is the ascent of a theory, 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.819 monkey to man to intelligent design. 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:43.500 This is the kind of treatment that faith gets in the modern world. 00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:49.160 So you have Richard Dawkins and the blind watchmaker talking about science, 00:17:49.539 --> 00:17:51.319 not requiring any creator, 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.839 about science being supreme. 00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:01.240 He goes on to talk about the something almost sacred about scientific investigation. 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:03.799 However, the interesting thing is that 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.900 if you listen to Richard Dawkins talking about origins, 00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:12.380 and in fact, in this DVD, 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:15.920 there's an interview with Richard Dawkins, 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.620 it's worth having it just for this interview, 00:18:18.100 --> 00:18:20.120 in which Richard Dawkins concedes 00:18:20.120 --> 00:18:25.700 that if you look at the details of cellular biochemistry, 00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:27.080 and I quote, 00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:31.860 you could detect the hand of a designer. 00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:32.840 That's what he says. 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.620 Now, I'm not quite sure at the time if he knew exactly what he was saying, 00:18:36.620 --> 00:18:37.680 but that's what he said. 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:40.440 And then almost as if to catch himself, he says, 00:18:40.800 --> 00:18:41.720 but of course, 00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:46.700 that designer would have to have come from somewhere else in the universe 00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:52.720 and would have to have arisen by some kind of Darwinian means. 00:18:53.540 --> 00:18:55.320 Now, the question he was asked is, 00:18:55.560 --> 00:18:56.480 how did life begin? 00:18:56.600 --> 00:18:56.980 And he says, 00:18:57.040 --> 00:18:58.700 we don't know how life began. 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:00.560 And that's why he says, 00:19:00.600 --> 00:19:03.640 you could maybe see evidence of a higher power. 00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:06.600 So the curious thing as I listen to this interview, 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.099 and it's worth listening to in detail, 00:19:08.679 --> 00:19:12.419 the curious thing is that Richard Dawkins doesn't know how life began on this planet, 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.779 but he somehow knows how it began on some other planet in the universe. 00:19:17.259 --> 00:19:17.980 In other words, 00:19:18.259 --> 00:19:20.879 this, as John Lennox says somewhere else, 00:19:21.459 --> 00:19:22.799 nonsense is nonsense, 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.220 even when talked by world-renowned scientists. 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:30.899 And this is the kind of nonsense that sometimes we're up against in this whole area. 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:34.619 Anthony Flew was a philosopher, 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.000 a well-known philosopher, 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.920 and Anthony Flew used to regularly debate with C.S. Lewis. 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:42.480 Lewis was the Christian. 00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:44.779 Anthony Flew was the atheist. 00:19:45.339 --> 00:19:46.819 But in his last years, 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.079 Anthony Flew changed his mind, 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:50.700 and he published a book entitled, 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:52.279 There Is a God. 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.819 And this was a remarkable change of mind 00:19:54.819 --> 00:19:58.380 and a remarkable conversion by a remarkable man. 00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:01.580 I actually had the pleasure of sitting at a lunch with him 00:20:01.580 --> 00:20:04.120 at a conference we were having about design. 00:20:04.540 --> 00:20:05.880 And I asked him, 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.460 What was it that led you to change your mind? 00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:09.760 And he said, 00:20:09.820 --> 00:20:10.660 Well, he said, 00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:12.900 There are really three things that made me change my mind. 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:15.240 One was that nature exists. 00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:16.380 If anything exists, 00:20:17.020 --> 00:20:19.200 it begs a question about how it got there. 00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:19.720 Secondly, 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:23.160 that nature should obey laws that we can perceive 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:26.100 and laws that we can make predictions from 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:29.379 is a compelling argument for a mind behind nature. 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:30.719 And thirdly, he said, 00:20:30.919 --> 00:20:31.839 In recent years, 00:20:31.919 --> 00:20:33.219 we have come to understand 00:20:33.219 --> 00:20:35.379 that life at a cellular level 00:20:35.379 --> 00:20:37.240 is hugely complex 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.000 and is intelligently organized. 00:20:40.659 --> 00:20:41.119 And he said, 00:20:41.159 --> 00:20:42.599 When I thought about all of this, 00:20:42.879 --> 00:20:43.139 he said, 00:20:43.179 --> 00:20:45.319 I came to the conclusion that there is no escaping, 00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:47.339 that there is a God. 00:20:47.980 --> 00:20:50.339 It's interesting that he came along to a conference 00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:51.819 organized by Christians 00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:54.359 at which T.N. Wright was speaking about 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:55.559 the resurrection of Jesus. 00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:58.859 And I dare to hope that in his last years, 00:20:58.939 --> 00:21:00.359 he found Christian faith. 00:21:01.719 --> 00:21:04.480 Richard Dawkins was a lot less charitable 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.799 about Anthony Flew's change of mind 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.319 and dismissed it as a man who was, 00:21:09.719 --> 00:21:09.740 quote, 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:11.599 cramming for his finals, 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.939 which was a rather negative way 00:21:14.939 --> 00:21:17.240 of looking at a change of mind. 00:21:17.899 --> 00:21:18.240 However, 00:21:18.859 --> 00:21:21.459 the scientific consensus would be 00:21:21.459 --> 00:21:23.319 that we're all here by chance. 00:21:23.439 --> 00:21:24.419 We're all accidents. 00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:27.900 I remember listening to an Oxford professor of chemistry 00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:29.779 telling us this on television. 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:31.660 I don't know what that does for your self-esteem, 00:21:32.100 --> 00:21:33.960 but we're basically all accidents, he said. 00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:36.800 And he didn't mean in a local or limited sense. 00:21:36.860 --> 00:21:38.980 He meant that the whole universe is an accident 00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:41.060 and we're all the products of an accident. 00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:42.700 That's pretty close to what Lord Rees, 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:44.080 the astronomer royal, 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:46.940 recently opined in the Daily Telegraph 00:21:46.940 --> 00:21:50.000 when he said that we might all be here 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:52.480 as the result of a massive fluke. 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:55.000 Now, that's not the most scientific proposition 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.140 I've ever heard. 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:58.840 But what I would say about that is 00:21:58.840 --> 00:22:02.039 that I prefer the design theory to the fluke theory. 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.559 I think that's a much more scientific way to approach it. 00:22:06.259 --> 00:22:09.160 And a professor that I've got to know relatively recently, 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.500 a man called Steve Fuller. 00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:15.220 I don't think he's a practicing Christian, 00:22:16.320 --> 00:22:17.880 but he's a professor of sociology, 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.460 but he is a supporter of the position of intelligent design. 00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:25.140 And he makes this very interesting comment. 00:22:25.320 --> 00:22:26.720 From cosmology to biology, 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.319 it is becoming increasingly clear 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.339 that science's failure to explain matters 00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:35.000 at the most fundamental level 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:38.380 is at least in part due to 00:22:38.380 --> 00:22:42.920 an institutional prohibition on intelligent design. 00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:44.319 Now, notice these words. 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:49.120 An institutional prohibition on intelligent design 00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:52.440 as one of the explanatory options. 00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:55.579 Now, this is pathetic for scientists 00:22:55.579 --> 00:22:58.500 because you can only do science with an open mind. 00:22:59.019 --> 00:23:00.799 You can only do science if you're prepared 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:02.980 to consider various possibilities. 00:23:03.220 --> 00:23:04.359 But he is right. 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.399 There is an institutional prohibition 00:23:07.399 --> 00:23:10.720 on proposing intelligent design 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:15.039 as an explanation for life and for the universe. 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:17.259 Now, I know a little bit about this. 00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:18.919 I'm not a practicing academic, 00:23:18.919 --> 00:23:21.159 but I do understand a little bit about science. 00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:23.220 But to my surprise, a few years ago, 00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:24.319 the Guardian asked me 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:26.220 if I would write an op-ed piece. 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.980 In fact, they put it in the middle pages of the Guardian. 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.720 And I was arguing that in school science, 00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:34.859 intelligent design should take its place 00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:37.839 alongside evolution as one of the possibilities. 00:23:38.379 --> 00:23:40.639 I was surprised that they published the article, 00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:41.299 but they did. 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:43.700 And the journalist who asked me for it said, 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:48.539 be prepared for a backlash to what you've written. 00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:51.659 And then he called me up sometime later and said, 00:23:51.859 --> 00:23:53.759 you'll be interested to know 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.119 that the response online to your article 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:57.819 is amongst the biggest 00:23:57.819 --> 00:24:00.639 that the Guardian has ever had. 00:24:01.299 --> 00:24:03.019 And he said, I'm afraid to say 00:24:03.019 --> 00:24:06.940 that it's almost uniformly critical of you. 00:24:07.379 --> 00:24:10.159 Well, Steve Fuller had helped me with this. 00:24:10.639 --> 00:24:11.659 He phoned me up and said, 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:12.639 that's a lovely article. 00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:13.139 Well done. 00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:15.399 He said, can I offer you a word of advice? 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.220 Don't read the comments online, he said. 00:24:18.300 --> 00:24:19.360 Don't read the idiots. 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:20.960 It'll only upset you. 00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:22.620 And I took his advice. 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.180 So I didn't read the 2000 retorts. 00:24:25.360 --> 00:24:28.400 But indeed, there is an institutional prohibition 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:30.900 on intelligent design in academia. 00:24:31.300 --> 00:24:32.480 You can't mention it. 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:33.700 There are scientists, 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:35.780 and the DVD would show you this, 00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:39.200 there are scientists that have actually lost their jobs 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.640 because they have indicated sympathy 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.660 for the scientific theory of design. 00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:48.660 There are others who have had their careers trashed, 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.259 who constantly have ad hominem arguments. 00:24:52.860 --> 00:24:53.920 And in a kind of a way, 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:55.480 you can take encouragement from that 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:57.060 because what nobody ever does 00:24:57.060 --> 00:24:59.620 is try to face the argument for design. 00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:03.540 They just heap criticism on those who promote it. 00:25:04.080 --> 00:25:06.020 And it's a bit like, 00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.080 I remember reading about a member of parliament 00:25:08.080 --> 00:25:08.960 who in his notes, 00:25:09.320 --> 00:25:10.140 when giving a speech, 00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:11.240 in the margin of its notes, 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:11.960 it said, 00:25:12.360 --> 00:25:14.100 argument weak at this point, shout. 00:25:14.580 --> 00:25:16.100 And that, I think, 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:17.259 has got something to do 00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:19.220 with the way in which intelligent design 00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:21.180 is treated in academia. 00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:26.240 So science dismisses faith. 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:29.520 But actually, the design argument, 00:25:29.820 --> 00:25:32.040 and I have spent the last decade and a half 00:25:32.040 --> 00:25:32.759 looking at it, 00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:34.540 the design argument 00:25:34.540 --> 00:25:38.600 is a powerful argument from science 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:41.299 that is not going to go away. 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:43.419 And it is the argument 00:25:43.419 --> 00:25:45.899 that gave us science in the first place. 00:25:45.980 --> 00:25:47.399 And so I come to my third point. 00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:49.480 And my third point is this. 00:25:50.219 --> 00:25:52.799 Science develops faith. 00:25:53.459 --> 00:25:54.639 I say to you humbly 00:25:54.639 --> 00:25:56.339 that over the last 15 years, 00:25:56.619 --> 00:25:58.279 when I've been looking and speaking 00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:00.539 and reading about intelligent design, 00:26:01.099 --> 00:26:02.919 this has certainly been something 00:26:02.919 --> 00:26:06.379 that has strengthened and developed my faith. 00:26:06.380 --> 00:26:08.680 And I want to try and tell you very briefly, 00:26:08.860 --> 00:26:09.360 if I can, 00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:11.440 how I encountered this. 00:26:12.820 --> 00:26:14.700 What is not widely known 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.540 is that the key to biology 00:26:17.540 --> 00:26:21.340 is not mutation and natural selection. 00:26:22.020 --> 00:26:25.140 The key to biology is information. 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.980 And where we find information in biology 00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:33.060 is in this remarkable substance called DNA. 00:26:33.059 --> 00:26:33.259 DNA. 00:26:34.139 --> 00:26:36.220 Now, this is a stylized diagram 00:26:36.220 --> 00:26:38.019 of a DNA molecule. 00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:40.500 This is the double helical molecule 00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:43.859 that we have in every cell in our body. 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:44.759 This is the molecule 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:46.679 that carries the information 00:26:46.679 --> 00:26:48.700 that builds human beings. 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:50.440 It doesn't have letters 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:51.799 down the spine like that. 00:26:51.879 --> 00:26:52.839 These letters are there 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:54.899 to represent chemical units. 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:57.599 Adenine, guimine, thymine, cytosine. 00:26:57.679 --> 00:26:59.379 These are four chemical units 00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:01.280 that are quite similar, 00:27:01.820 --> 00:27:03.440 but just a little different. 00:27:04.020 --> 00:27:06.080 And these units are carried 00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:08.620 within the double helix of DNA. 00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:11.240 Now, I used to teach this stuff 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:12.840 to sixth form pupils at school. 00:27:13.320 --> 00:27:15.140 I used to tell them about Crick and Watson. 00:27:15.280 --> 00:27:16.540 We used to watch a film about it. 00:27:16.760 --> 00:27:18.640 We used to discuss how they managed 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.800 in what is one of the outstanding 00:27:20.800 --> 00:27:22.440 chemical feats of all time 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.580 to work out the structure of DNA. 00:27:24.579 --> 00:27:27.339 But what I never noticed 00:27:27.339 --> 00:27:29.379 or had never heard 00:27:29.379 --> 00:27:31.619 until somewhere around 2005 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:33.539 when I listened to an American scientist 00:27:33.539 --> 00:27:35.220 by the name of Stephen Meyer 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:36.480 talking about DNA, 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:38.559 Meyer was interested 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:41.799 in the information content of DNA. 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:43.179 And he said, 00:27:43.299 --> 00:27:44.079 as a scientist, 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.559 it is a legitimate question to ask, 00:27:48.019 --> 00:27:50.419 where does the information 00:27:50.419 --> 00:27:52.839 in DNA come from? 00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.279 Now, we are children 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.220 of the information age. 00:27:58.919 --> 00:28:00.899 In fact, I can hardly go half an hour 00:28:00.899 --> 00:28:02.240 without looking at my phone. 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:05.639 And this is the most incredible technology. 00:28:05.779 --> 00:28:06.439 Do you know that there's 00:28:06.439 --> 00:28:09.099 more computing power 00:28:09.099 --> 00:28:11.240 in my iPhone 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:14.139 than there was on Apollo 11 00:28:14.139 --> 00:28:15.439 when it landed on the moon? 00:28:15.919 --> 00:28:17.339 The amount of information 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:18.779 carried in these devices 00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:21.159 is absolutely astonishing. 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.480 Now, you probably, like me, 00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:24.259 don't know a whole lot 00:28:24.259 --> 00:28:25.360 about computer science, 00:28:25.580 --> 00:28:26.660 but you do know 00:28:26.660 --> 00:28:28.800 that it works by information. 00:28:29.320 --> 00:28:30.140 And the information 00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:32.019 is carried in computer software. 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:33.900 And the computer software 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.440 is coded with ones and zeros. 00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:37.759 You don't need to know this 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:39.080 to be able to use it 00:28:39.080 --> 00:28:40.140 or to use computers. 00:28:40.700 --> 00:28:43.100 But computers are programmed 00:28:43.100 --> 00:28:44.220 by the orders 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:45.860 of the ones and the zeros. 00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:48.359 And there are trillions of them 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:50.740 to carry all the information 00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:52.339 that these phones have 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:54.079 or that our sophisticated world 00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:55.279 operates on. 00:28:55.679 --> 00:28:57.119 Now, these ones and zeros 00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:58.299 are not there randomly. 00:28:58.979 --> 00:29:01.219 They are there precisely 00:29:01.219 --> 00:29:03.199 in the order that is required 00:29:03.199 --> 00:29:05.539 to convey the necessary information. 00:29:05.879 --> 00:29:07.419 And if you get one of them wrong, 00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:08.399 it doesn't work. 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:10.099 If you corrupt the software, 00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:11.500 it doesn't work. 00:29:11.500 --> 00:29:13.799 There's a precision about information 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:14.980 that's breathtaking. 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:17.839 And I wonder how in all the world 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:19.700 computer scientists manage 00:29:19.700 --> 00:29:21.579 to produce devices like this 00:29:21.579 --> 00:29:22.859 that I could drop occasionally 00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:24.399 and it still works. 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:25.859 But, you know, 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:28.859 this is not a patch on our DNA. 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:31.240 And the DNA that we carry 00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:33.139 in every cell in our body 00:29:33.139 --> 00:29:36.720 carries vastly more information 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.919 than is carried in my mobile phone. 00:29:38.919 --> 00:29:40.759 I mean, think about it for a moment. 00:29:41.659 --> 00:29:43.480 Each one of us started life 00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:44.940 as a single cell 00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:47.319 inside a mother's womb. 00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:49.960 And in that single cell, 00:29:50.360 --> 00:29:52.480 there is about six feet of DNA. 00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:55.480 If you uncouple the strands of DNA 00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:56.700 and join them together, 00:29:56.980 --> 00:29:57.559 don't do this, 00:29:57.579 --> 00:29:58.339 it's bad for your health, 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:00.819 and stretch it out, 00:30:00.940 --> 00:30:04.000 you will get roughly six feet of DNA. 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:06.319 And the sequencing 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:08.240 of the A's, the T's, 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:10.160 the C's, and the G's, 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:12.140 the sequencing of these 00:30:12.140 --> 00:30:13.620 along the DNA molecule 00:30:13.620 --> 00:30:16.540 is what carries the information 00:30:16.540 --> 00:30:19.000 that built you and built me, 00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:20.180 every bit of us. 00:30:20.820 --> 00:30:23.900 This is one of the great unknown secrets 00:30:23.900 --> 00:30:24.940 of the modern world. 00:30:25.300 --> 00:30:27.060 We think we know about DNA, 00:30:27.740 --> 00:30:30.920 but DNA is an information base 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.420 beyond anything that anyone has created. 00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:36.940 Now, Myers' argument about this was, 00:30:38.100 --> 00:30:40.800 the units in DNA are not regular, 00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:42.500 they're not random, 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:44.220 they're actually coded. 00:30:45.100 --> 00:30:47.100 They are, in a sense, 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:48.880 the same kind of arrangement 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.920 as the digitally coded information 00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:54.560 that we use in our lives every day. 00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:56.160 And Myers says, 00:30:56.800 --> 00:30:59.320 it is legitimate for a scientist to ask, 00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:02.059 how does this information arise? 00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:04.139 Now, this is not a religious question, 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:05.859 this is a biological question. 00:31:06.179 --> 00:31:08.240 Where does the information come from? 00:31:08.659 --> 00:31:09.939 And he's written a stunning book 00:31:09.939 --> 00:31:10.799 about this called 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.200 Signature in the Cell. 00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:14.980 It was a New York Times bestseller 00:31:14.980 --> 00:31:18.119 for Times Literary Survey bestseller 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:19.379 in 2009. 00:31:19.639 --> 00:31:21.000 This is an astonishing book. 00:31:22.579 --> 00:31:24.539 Perhaps not exactly for the layperson, 00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:26.960 but if you've got any knowledge of science, 00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:28.099 this book is remarkable. 00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:29.719 In which he argues 00:31:29.719 --> 00:31:33.000 that the only credible explanation 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.159 for the information in DNA 00:31:35.159 --> 00:31:38.399 is that it is the product of mind. 00:31:39.219 --> 00:31:40.299 Now, you think about it. 00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:41.740 I'm looking at notes tonight. 00:31:41.859 --> 00:31:43.439 I've printed them rather too small 00:31:43.439 --> 00:31:44.639 to be able to read them properly. 00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:46.359 But these notes of mine 00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:48.419 represent the information 00:31:48.419 --> 00:31:49.759 that came from my mind 00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:50.519 about a week ago 00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:51.740 when I was putting this together. 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:53.919 The information that we have 00:31:53.919 --> 00:31:54.759 in our hymn books, 00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:55.759 in papers, 00:31:56.259 --> 00:31:57.199 in our computers, 00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.480 on the screen. 00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:00.620 You never get information 00:32:00.620 --> 00:32:01.620 without a mind. 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:03.620 And so if you're looking at DNA 00:32:03.620 --> 00:32:04.880 and trying to draw 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:06.539 a scientific conclusion about it, 00:32:06.700 --> 00:32:08.299 the only conclusion you can draw 00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:10.480 is that this is clear evidence 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.559 of intelligent mind. 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.700 Intelligent mind is the only known source 00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:18.640 of specified functional information, 00:32:19.059 --> 00:32:21.480 like newsprint or computer software. 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:24.319 And this is a scientific process 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:26.440 which was best described 00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:30.079 as inference to the best explanation. 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:31.680 Now, when you're dealing 00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:32.860 with historical science, 00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:34.140 like where did the world come from? 00:32:34.360 --> 00:32:35.460 Where did life come from? 00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:36.579 Where did we come from? 00:32:36.819 --> 00:32:38.779 You can't go back and watch it. 00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:40.759 You can't repeat the experiments. 00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:42.519 All you can do 00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:44.259 is look at the data you've got 00:32:44.259 --> 00:32:46.960 and come to the best conclusion 00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:48.700 on the evidence before you. 00:32:48.700 --> 00:32:51.360 And the best conclusion you can come to 00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:52.880 when you look at DNA 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:56.039 is to say this has to be 00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.620 the product of intelligent mind. 00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:01.620 Bill Gates remarkably has said 00:33:01.620 --> 00:33:03.360 the machine code of genes 00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:05.860 is uncannily computer-like, 00:33:06.340 --> 00:33:07.960 according to Professor Richard Dawkins. 00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:08.420 He says, 00:33:08.860 --> 00:33:10.900 DNA is like a computer program, 00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:13.819 but far, far more advanced 00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:16.600 than any software we have ever created. 00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.339 Now, think about that for a moment. 00:33:19.059 --> 00:33:21.059 How did Bill Gates get his software? 00:33:21.719 --> 00:33:23.379 He didn't get his software 00:33:23.379 --> 00:33:25.639 by opening the windows of his laboratory 00:33:25.639 --> 00:33:27.359 and letting the weather blow through 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.139 and just waiting for it to assemble by chance. 00:33:30.619 --> 00:33:31.339 That's ridiculous. 00:33:32.059 --> 00:33:33.579 He got it by employing 00:33:33.579 --> 00:33:36.500 world-class software engineers 00:33:36.500 --> 00:33:38.679 who programmed the computers. 00:33:39.579 --> 00:33:41.879 So how do we get the information 00:33:41.879 --> 00:33:43.359 that's carried in our DNA? 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.779 Well, according to Lord Reese, 00:33:46.819 --> 00:33:47.639 it's a fluke. 00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:50.579 I think that idea is utterly laughable. 00:33:51.339 --> 00:33:54.679 And I think the most credible evidence 00:33:54.679 --> 00:33:55.959 for the existence 00:33:55.959 --> 00:33:59.279 of an intelligent mind behind nature 00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.579 is the wonder of the DNA 00:34:01.579 --> 00:34:03.979 that makes us what we are. 00:34:04.059 --> 00:34:05.879 Incidentally, each of us has about 00:34:05.879 --> 00:34:07.899 a hundred trillion cells in our body. 00:34:07.979 --> 00:34:09.159 It depends what kind of diet you're on, 00:34:09.219 --> 00:34:11.819 but roughly a hundred trillion cells. 00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:14.200 Every cell in our body 00:34:14.200 --> 00:34:15.660 has six feet of DNA. 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.140 Every cell carries 00:34:17.140 --> 00:34:19.559 a complete set of genetic information. 00:34:21.080 --> 00:34:22.260 And if you were to take 00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:23.680 all the DNA in your body 00:34:23.680 --> 00:34:25.160 and join it together in a line, 00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:25.880 don't try that 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:26.920 because that would be really bad 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:27.440 for your health. 00:34:27.820 --> 00:34:29.760 If you joined it all together in a line, 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:30.880 and I have to apologize, 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:33.300 there's a mistake in my book here. 00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:33.940 I say, 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:35.840 if you join all the DNA, 00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:37.460 you would get a string of DNA 00:34:37.460 --> 00:34:39.420 that would reach to the moon 00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:43.440 and back 8,000 times. 00:34:44.240 --> 00:34:45.780 You're supposed to say wow at that point. 00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:46.760 Yeah. 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:48.579 But somebody said to me, 00:34:48.619 --> 00:34:49.519 are you sure about that? 00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:50.940 I said, well, I'm pretty sure about it. 00:34:51.059 --> 00:34:51.940 I looked it up 00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:52.820 and that's the figure I got. 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:53.800 He said, no, I think you're wrong. 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:56.519 So I went and recalculated it 00:34:56.519 --> 00:34:57.559 and I am wrong. 00:34:58.139 --> 00:34:59.460 It's not 8,000 times. 00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:03.059 It's 200,000 times. 00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:04.420 Wow. 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:06.579 So you see, 00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.840 science develops faith 00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:12.340 because actually, 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:13.980 instead of faith 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:16.119 being the opposite of science, 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:18.639 it is science that tells us 00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.940 just the sheer physical evidence of science 00:35:21.940 --> 00:35:23.099 tells us 00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:24.659 that there's a creator 00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:26.099 who created us, 00:35:26.179 --> 00:35:27.380 whose mind is written 00:35:27.380 --> 00:35:28.760 all over our DNA. 00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:30.140 There was an interesting day 00:35:30.140 --> 00:35:31.940 on the 26th of June, 2000. 00:35:32.740 --> 00:35:33.500 Bill Gates 00:35:33.500 --> 00:35:34.900 and the then Prime Minister, 00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:35.600 Tony Blair, 00:35:35.980 --> 00:35:37.080 had a transatlantic 00:35:37.080 --> 00:35:39.580 telephone conversation, 00:35:39.820 --> 00:35:42.280 transatlantic telephone news conference 00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:43.460 to announce 00:35:43.460 --> 00:35:45.680 the unraveling of the human genome. 00:35:47.080 --> 00:35:48.420 This is when scientists 00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:49.940 working on both sides of the Atlantic 00:35:49.940 --> 00:35:51.040 and elsewhere in the world 00:35:51.040 --> 00:35:53.860 had at last established 00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:55.760 the sequence of the base pairs 00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:56.840 in DNA. 00:35:56.840 --> 00:35:58.640 This was a colossal breakthrough. 00:35:58.760 --> 00:35:59.720 Because, of course, 00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:01.800 it opens up all sorts of possibilities 00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:03.500 for science and medicine 00:36:03.500 --> 00:36:05.280 and would enable scientists 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.380 potentially to be able to deal 00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:09.520 with some of the life-limiting diseases 00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:11.360 that arise from mutations 00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.700 and irregularities in our DNA. 00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:15.000 And it's interesting 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:16.320 that the language 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.620 that Bill Clinton used was, 00:36:19.220 --> 00:36:21.340 today we are learning the language 00:36:21.340 --> 00:36:23.480 in which God created life. 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:24.460 Well, some people would say, 00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:25.460 well, an American president 00:36:25.460 --> 00:36:26.340 would say that. 00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:28.059 My theory is 00:36:28.059 --> 00:36:29.860 that he was writing a script 00:36:29.860 --> 00:36:31.220 that was written for him 00:36:31.220 --> 00:36:32.860 by the other man in the picture 00:36:32.860 --> 00:36:34.720 who is Francis Collins. 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.019 Francis Collins was the director 00:36:38.019 --> 00:36:39.780 of the Human Genome Project. 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:41.760 And the interesting thing 00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.300 about Francis Collins is 00:36:43.300 --> 00:36:44.860 that Francis Collins 00:36:44.860 --> 00:36:46.900 is an evangelical Christian. 00:36:46.900 --> 00:36:48.539 So he had no doubt 00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:51.420 that science pointed towards 00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:52.460 a creator 00:36:52.460 --> 00:36:54.380 who had put this information 00:36:54.380 --> 00:36:55.200 in DNA. 00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:56.340 And that's what has led me, 00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:57.019 among other things, 00:36:57.180 --> 00:36:58.280 to the position known 00:36:58.280 --> 00:36:59.519 as intelligent design, 00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.400 which holds that certain features 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:01.940 of the universe 00:37:01.940 --> 00:37:02.960 and of living things 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:04.440 are best explained 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.900 by an intelligent cause, 00:37:06.139 --> 00:37:08.980 not by an undirected process 00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:11.340 such as natural selection. 00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:15.180 Now, I have more I'd like to say, 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.400 but I think I should pause there 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:19.620 and ask for guidance 00:37:19.620 --> 00:37:20.539 as to whether you want me 00:37:20.539 --> 00:37:22.140 to continue for a few more minutes 00:37:22.140 --> 00:37:23.760 or is this a point 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.100 at which we'd have some questions. 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:26.920 What I would want to go on to say 00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:29.079 is that DNA is not the only evidence 00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:30.120 for God's existence. 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:33.320 What we call cosmic fine-tuning, 00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:35.140 why the laws of the universe 00:37:35.140 --> 00:37:37.260 are just right for life, 00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:39.680 there's evidence that comes 00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:41.320 from biological complexity, 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:43.000 the work of Michael Behe 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:44.060 and other scientists, 00:37:44.600 --> 00:37:46.140 that biological systems 00:37:46.140 --> 00:37:46.860 within our body 00:37:46.860 --> 00:37:47.940 are so complex 00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:49.480 that they couldn't possibly 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:51.120 have arisen by accident. 00:37:51.560 --> 00:37:53.620 These are all strands 00:37:53.620 --> 00:37:54.780 of intelligent design. 00:37:55.200 --> 00:37:56.380 There's a list of seven. 00:37:56.980 --> 00:37:57.900 You'll see my brethren, 00:37:58.040 --> 00:37:59.520 Lee, preaching coming through that. 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.140 Get them all to alliterate 00:38:01.140 --> 00:38:01.800 our intuition, 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:02.680 our intelligence, 00:38:03.060 --> 00:38:04.440 the intelligibility of nature, 00:38:04.780 --> 00:38:06.260 the intentionality of nature. 00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:07.140 Things look as if 00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:08.139 they've been designed 00:38:08.139 --> 00:38:09.359 to be exactly right. 00:38:09.739 --> 00:38:11.500 The improbability of getting 00:38:11.500 --> 00:38:13.379 biological molecules by chance. 00:38:13.759 --> 00:38:16.159 The intricacy of biological systems. 00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:18.500 And as I've outlined to you tonight, 00:38:18.819 --> 00:38:20.219 the huge information bank 00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:22.119 that's carried in every cell 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:23.579 of every living thing.