Why don't we begin with prayer.
Father, thank you for gathering us here this morning, and thank you, Lord, for the opportunity
to come together as believers on Sundays, primarily because of your resurrection from
the dead and the way that that gives us hope and joy and perseverance.
And we thank you, Lord, that because you are risen, we know that your work on the cross
was complete.
And we thank you for the empowerment of your Holy Spirit that can help us face whatever
we are walking through right now.
We pray for our time together this morning as we consider the question of transgender
identity and what your word has to say to that and how to interact fruitfully with one another
and with our neighbors about these questions.
We pray that this would be a fruitful conversation together and that you would be at work among
us and in us.
Be shaping us into the people who you have called us to be that we may reflect Christ in
our world today.
In Jesus' name we pray.
Amen.
All right.
So we are in the middle of our class on gender and sexuality, and today we are looking at
the question of transgender identity.
So we began this class looking at how we're all beautiful because we're made in the image
of God and broken because of sin and its effects.
We looked at sort of two positive visions the Bible gives us about how our gender and sexuality
can be sort of a witness to Christ's redemption, namely through Christ-centered marriage and
through consecrated Christian singleness.
We looked at how we need both of those expressions in the church to bear witness to the fullness
of who Christ is.
And now we're looking at sort of a series of challenging issues that are sort of both things
that our culture is talking a lot about, as well as things that I think as a church we
need to sort of think through together.
So today we are looking at the question of transgender.
So let me just introduce this, a few statistics.
I've listed some things here.
There's a growing prominence of transgender individuals in our culture.
So according to a survey from 2016, about 1.4 million adults in the U.S. identify as transgender.
The total population of the U.S. is 330 million, but that includes adults and children.
So if you include adults, about 230 million adults.
So that's about 0.6% of the adult population.
That's about double the percentage that a similar survey found 10 years prior.
So particularly I think since the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in 2015, sort of the transgender questions
have gained a growing prominence.
They're sort of the focus of most political debates about gender and sexuality is now sort of focused on this area.
So, for example, should there have been laws passed on both sides in some states saying public bathrooms are based on your biological sex
and other states say public bathrooms, you can go into whatever public bathroom you want based on your sort of self-conception of your own gender identity.
There's been debates about public school curricula, transgender athletes.
So in Connecticut, the winner of the women's track and field, one of the track and field competitions in the last couple of years
has been a biological male who transitioned to living as a female.
And so there's been debates about is this fair?
And all kinds of complicated questions.
Whether transgender individuals have the right to serve in all branches of the military
and what accommodations must be made for them.
And that one's sort of still hanging, whether the Supreme Court is about to consider whether gender identity is protected
under discrimination laws in the same way that race is.
Medicare now does cover what is – there's a bunch of names for this.
It used to be called a sex change operation.
Now I think the sort of preferred name is a gender-affirming surgery,
but gender reassignment surgery, sex reassignment surgery, there's all kinds of these names.
But basically surgical treatments and hormone treatments for people who want to sort of change from one gender to another.
Now I think many people may look at these things and say,
wow, like everything's sort of going in this direction.
But at the same point, if you look at the statistics,
transgender individuals are still – are personally often very vulnerable.
So 40 percent, according to one – it's more than one survey that's found this,
but 40 percent of transgender individuals in the United States have attempted suicide during their lifetime,
compared to about 5 percent of the general population.
A survey conducted in Sweden, and Sweden's a country that has had sort of very progressive,
sort of pro-transgender laws for a longer time.
But a recent survey said those diagnosed with gender incongruence were about six times as likely
to have had a health care visit due to a mood or anxiety disorder,
sort of anxiety or depression of some kind usually,
more than six times as likely to have been hospitalized after a suicide attempt.
So that's just a little bit of where we are culturally.
I want to sort of not immediately try to weigh in on that,
but I want to step back a little bit and start by looking at the larger biblical story
and its implications, and then how do we as Christians sort of understand these things.
So first couple of terms, just how terms are currently used.
Sex is usually used to refer to a person's biological status, right?
Your genitals or your, you know, XX or XY chromosomes.
Gender is used often to refer to sort of cultural attitudes, feelings, behaviors
that a culture associates with, you know, being male or being female.
And then what are sometimes called intersex conditions.
So these are called disorders of sex development.
So this is when a person's biological sex from birth is not clearly male or female.
Now this is very rare, but it does happen.
And in fact, a year or two ago I was talking with a pastor in the Boston area
who there's a child born to a couple in his congregation who had one of these conditions.
And the parents were trying to discern what do we do here.
So one of the questions is do you do an early sort of surgical intervention?
But there's a variety of these conditions.
Some are more serious than others, but often there's some kind of an abnormality
between the sex chromosomes, sort of XX or XY,
or occasionally there's sort of a, there's like an XXY, I think, one.
Sometimes there's a bit of a mismatch or an ambiguity
in sort of the body of a child when they're born.
So there's controversy within the medical community about should we try to sort of fix this now,
or should we just let it be and let it develop as it may,
and different conditions, you know, sometimes lean one way or the other.
So this is a complicated, just sort of a biological condition that some people are born with.
The other thing that we're talking about, which is different,
is gender dysphoria or gender incongruence.
So this is when someone's deeply felt gender identity does not correspond to their biological sex.
So, for example, a person who was born as a boy may feel and act like a girl, right?
People with gender dysphoria desire to live as a member of the opposite sex
and often dress and use mannerisms associated with the other gender.
Now, epidemiologists estimate about 5%, perhaps up to 5%, of kids without an intersex condition,
without a biological condition, sort of frequently or sometimes wish to be the opposite sex.
Now, for the vast majority of children, somewhere between 80% and 90% who feel this way during childhood
or during early adolescence, these feelings resolve as they grow up into adulthood
and don't continue in the majority of cases.
And people wonder why does this happen, and the causes are debated and they're uncertain.
And sort of a prominent theory is often sort of explained in a simplified way like this.
For most people, the shape of their brain corresponds to their biological sex.
So there's actually studies about how women's brains and men's brains actually just in various parts of the brain
are actually shaped differently and sort of interact with the world differently.
But one theory is that for some people, there's sort of a mismatch and your body is one way,
but your brain is sort of oriented the other way.
And so that's why some people identify as transgender.
But now, this theory is not proven.
And again, brain studies are very difficult because how do you study the brain of a living person?
Well, there's some limitations, right?
You can't take it out, right?
And you can't sort of handle it directly.
So all brain studies are challenging in just how to do that.
And anyway, that's an open question.
So there may be a biological component to that.
There may be other factors involved.
You know, there's obviously cultural factors involved at the level of whether people are sort of encouraged
to sort of pursue or identify this way.
So in various cultures throughout history, there are occasional examples of people who are born as males
but live much of their life sort of as females or vice versa.
The sort of first widely publicized person to go through a sex reassignment surgery was a World War II veteran
who was a biological male who had surgery and identified as a female by the name of Christine Jorgensen.
There was a couple earlier examples in Europe in the 1930s.
There was one person who died in the course of surgery attempting to do this.
Anyway, that's just a little bit of the sort of terms and history.
So what's the biblical framework?
How do we begin to sort of understand and interact with these questions?
Well, as we've looked at in this class, sort of God's intention for us in making us,
we're made in God's image.
Every person is made in God's image.
And God's made us male and female in the beginning.
And that's sort of God's a good thing that God has made us as men or as women.
And this whole idea of sort of the male-female, the communion between male and female,
both at a sort of broad level sort of in the human race as well as particularly in marriage,
is sort of an echo of the divine human communion.
That phrase comes from actually Pope John Paul II, who wrote a long,
had a long series of addresses called the theology of the body,
which are actually quite insightful.
Many of them are just sort of detailed expositions of Genesis and Ephesians and some other things.
But there's actually some quite, you know, I wouldn't go with him on every conclusion,
but there's a lot of good stuff in there.
And then in the fall, right, but we don't, but none of us experience life as God,
fully as God originally intended it, right?
The fall touches every part of us, including our bodies, our sense of who we are in our gender,
our sort of sexual desires and expressions.
You know, the fall sort of, there's no part of us that is free from the effects of the fall.
So our minds, you know, our self-perceptions and self-concepts,
the assumptions we make about other people.
I mean, how many assumptions do we make about other people that are later proven wrong, right?
Think about that, right?
That's evidence of we live in a fallen world.
We have trouble communicating.
We have trouble understanding each other.
We have trouble sort of relating to each other.
You know, we all experience this in some way or other.
Now, I think for many of us who feel comfortable in our own bodies and comfortable in our own biological sex,
it's particularly hard to empathize or understand what it would be like to have gender dysphoria.
I think that for many people, it's easier to think about, you know, if, say, let's say you are a heterosexual male or female, right?
It's probably easier for most people to think about what it would be like to have same-sex attractions
than to wish that you were the completely opposite gender.
Sort of, it's sort of a leap further, and I think some people particularly feel,
that's why this issue can be particularly challenging because people are like,
well, why would, why would I, why would anyone want to be, you know, you're a male.
Like, why would you want to be a female, or you're a female.
Like, why would you want to be a male.
But I think stepping back and realizing that we live in a fallen world, right?
And the fall affects all of us.
There's, so the fact that some people experience sort of biological conditions,
intersex conditions, or gender dysphoria, sort of a deep sense that I feel like I'm trapped in the wrong body.
There's something, I feel like there's something fundamentally wrong with the body that I was given
or that needs to be changed in order to sort of become who I really am.
Now, if we think about that more broadly, that shouldn't be a surprise, living in a fallen world.
And even if it's sort of hard to initially relate to for some of us,
I think if we sort of think a little deeper, you know, how many of us have some,
have experienced some aspect of our body that we feel like just where we have felt either deeply hurt
or violated or shameful or something that we feel like just is broken or frustrating,
you know, maybe a condition that you can't change like, you know, blindness or whatever, right?
Something you've had since birth or something that develops as you grow, right?
You know, if we think in that way, I think we can sort of begin to,
this doesn't feel as sort of alien or unusual, right?
We live in a broken, frustrating world.
All of us are alienated from who we're designed to be,
and we await the final redemption of our bodies.
So I think part of what I want to say is, you know, if this feels initially just very difficult
to identify with someone who identifies as transgender, let's not just stay there,
but let's try to, like, part of loving someone is trying to understand them
and trying to sort of understand and learn about what it's like to be them
and what they're walking through.
So I think we shouldn't just stay in a sort of, like, that's weird,
and I will never really understand that, and I'm just going to try to avoid that.
Now, that's not really a Christian posture of love, right?
So we want to try to go beyond that.
But we see in the coming of Christ, God's redemption being extended to all kinds of sinners
and all kinds of brokenness.
Now, okay, in light of this biblical story, how do we understand and respond to people
who experience gender dysphoria or who identify as transgender?
So a few books on this topic.
So this is a small little book, and it is where I would recommend any Christian begin
if you're trying to think through this issue.
So it's by Vaughn Roberts, who's a British pastor,
and there's copies of this on the bookstall.
Well, another book is by a Christian psychologist named Mark Yarhouse.
So this gets into more sort of clinical, psychological details.
He's counseled people with gender dysphoria.
There's a few areas where I wish he would be a little more clear on some of the boundaries
of sort of what is and isn't appropriate for Christians.
I think he leaves a few questions a little more open than I would want to,
but on the whole, I think there's a lot of good stuff in here.
And a third book is Andrew Walker, God and the Transgender Debate,
What Does the Bible Actually Say About Gender Identity?
And that covers sort of a broad variety of things.
But Yarhouse sort of outlines three common frameworks for understanding gender dysphoria.
And I think his frameworks are helpful, so I want to use this as a frame for this lesson.
So the first framework is the integrity framework,
and that sort of emphasizes God's design in creation, right?
Emphasizes sort of the first part of the biblical story.
The sacredness of humanity as created male and female.
And so in this framework, God made you male or female,
and so the encouragement is live into that.
Live according to that.
Express yourself in a way that's consistent with that.
I think there is biblical support for this view in both the Old and New Testaments.
God instructs the nation of Israel in the Old Testament and the Christian church in the New Testament
to preserve and reflect the goodness of the creation order, including male and female distinctions.
So the Old Testament specifically prohibited cross-dressing, sort of intentionally appearing as the opposite sex,
and also genital mutilation, which happens at some times in the ancient world.
So men were occasionally castrated because of a ritual of dedication to a pagan god
or because they had a special official position, that of a eunuch in the king's service,
and God wanted such practices to have no place among his people,
and he did not want that to become an accepted or common practice among the people of Israel.
So the New Testament reaffirms male-female distinctions,
even as it speaks powerfully to the unity and equal value and interdependence of men and women in Christ.
So Galatians 3.28 talks about how we share a common salvation.
Jew or Greek, slave or free, male and female are all one in Christ.
Now some people will quote that verse, Genesis 3.28,
and attempt to argue that Christians can get rid of or transcend, sort of rise above, the male-female binary.
And so Christians can embrace, you know, and fully approve of sort of a transgender identity,
and that should have an important place in the church, and that's just part of the whole spectrum.
But that's not Paul's intention in the verse.
And I think it's not consistent with sort of the encouragement that Scripture places
that being male or being female is a gift from God.
The New Testament de-emphasizes boundaries and distinctions based on race and class,
but in several places it affirms the abiding goodness of humanity as male and female.
So there's various passages that could be pointed to.
1 Corinthians 11 is sort of a sticky, thorny passage about head coverings.
But whatever the passage is teaching, it's encouraging people to sort of receive their maleness or femaleness as a gift from God
and to sort of express that sort of in appropriate signs.
So however you interpret the details of that, I think it supports the point.
There's other passages I've listed.
And most clearly, Jesus himself reaffirmed God's design of humanity as male and female.
It's not just Paul's teaching. Jesus did too.
But there's a second framework, not only the integrity framework, but second, the disability framework.
So this is another approach to gender dysphoria,
and it sees it as analogous to other forms of impairment that aren't voluntarily chosen, right?
Some people are born blind, are developed blindness over the course of their life.
Some people struggle with depression or other things.
And this view emphasizes we live in a fallen world, and because we are all fallen,
we should respond compassionately to people who experience gender dysphoria
and to seek to alleviate some of the misery and pain that they experience.
I think, again, we find biblical support for this view throughout the Bible.
So I've listed some verses particularly about eunuchs, right?
So eunuchs were people were most often, sometimes the word is used more broadly
to just defer to any official in the king's service,
but usually it was referred to a male who had been castrated for the sake of sort of,
so he would not have, so he could not get married, would not get married,
and could not produce children, and would not have any descendants,
and would be loyal only to the king and not to his sort of progeny.
And we saw how in the Old Testament, you know, God said,
no, don't practice castration.
That is not what God's people should be doing.
But in Isaiah we saw God promised that there would be a place in his house
even for eunuchs who choose what pleases me and hold fast my covenant.
But in the Old Covenant, that really was only a future hope.
It wasn't really a present reality.
And interestingly, Jesus refers to eunuchs in Matthew 19, 11, and 12.
Now, he's using the eunuch as a figure.
So what he said, now, but, you know, in Jesus' Jewish culture,
eunuchs were basically like, they were like lepers, like stay away from them.
Their, you know, their bodies do not reflect God's creational design.
They've been damaged, and so keep your distance.
They don't belong.
So I've included a quotation from Josephus and a Roman official, right?
So eunuchs, described eunuchs as,
exiles from the society of the human race, belonging neither to one sex nor the other.
And I think many people today who have an intersexual condition biologically
or who experience gender dysphoria and really feel like they're somehow trapped in the wrong body
have felt a similarly sort of deep and persistent sense of alienation and rejection and not belonging.
And I think their experience today may have some parallels
to how a castrated eunuch might have felt in the time of Jesus.
And in this context, I think Jesus' words are perhaps a bit surprising.
So first, Jesus says, there are eunuchs who have been so from birth.
Now, that certainly would include people born with an intersex condition.
So interestingly, you know, that is a rough one, right?
You know, imagine being born, and your genitals are sort of not typically male or female,
or just there's a sort of a, you know, there's a birth defect in that regard, right?
Anyway, these conditions are rare, but isn't it some comfort that the Lord himself acknowledges the reality
and the pain of an unwanted and unchosen condition?
Jesus continues, there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men.
Everybody knew that happened sometimes, and eunuchs were generally despised for that reason.
And then Jesus says, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
Now, Jesus isn't, again, Jesus isn't promoted.
Jesus is not using this as a literal thing.
He's not saying people should castrate themselves for the kingdom.
But he's pointing to the eunuch as a figure of Christian discipleship.
So there's a redemptive thrust here.
The eunuch wasn't just someone whose body was defective, whose body had been mutilated,
and therefore was excluded and undesirable and not redeemable.
No, the figure of the eunuch also embodied undivided devotion to the king,
and a eunuch's condition, though tragic and regrettable, could be redeemed through Christ.
And we see this in an actual person, not just in a figure of speech, in the book of Acts, right?
The Ethiopian eunuch is fully accepted into God's family through the saving work of Christ,
and he finds great joy when he's baptized along the road.
And so the gospel promise extends to individuals with an intersex condition and individuals with gender dysphoria.
Whoever surrenders to Christ belongs to him now and forever, and even our bodily defects and weaknesses.
When we surrender them to Christ and seek to live in accordance with his will,
can be redeemed and turned for God's good and wise purposes.
So I think this is an important sort of redemptive hope that Scripture extends to all people,
including people with an intersex condition or with gender dysphoria.
Now the third framework that Yarhouse talks about, that I think increasingly,
so the first framework is integrity, emphasizing God's creational intention.
Second framework, disability, that emphasizes sort of we live in a fallen world,
so we should be compassionate.
Third framework is diversity.
And sort of this is the dominant framework through which our society understands gender dysphoria
and transgender identity.
And really what it is, is it's a narrative of redemption,
but it's an alternative, non-biblical, sort of secular, sort of narrative of redemption.
So basically, it says that being transgender is one among many beautiful and individual expressions of gender.
It's important to affirm people in whatever their deeply felt gender identity may be,
in order to participate in their liberation from stigma, shame, and oppression.
Some of the results of that would be people should have access to medical treatment covered by insurance,
whether it's counseling or hormones or surgery, people should have the legal right to work at any job,
regardless of gender identity or expression, the ability to easily change the gender listed on their IDs,
and sort of broad social affirmation and approval of a transgender self-concept.
So that's the most common sort of, well, the most common view in, at least in large sectors of our society today.
Not everywhere.
But probably here in New Haven.
So how do we biblically evaluate this view?
Sort of, well, take note that in this view,
the most sacred principle is the autonomy of the individual
and whatever an individual most deeply feels about themselves.
Now this is sometimes called expressive individualism.
So it's the idea that your truest identity is not connected,
your truest identity is deep inside yourself.
So it's not inherently connected to your parents or your friends or the society that you live in
or the role that you find yourself in,
or even the body that you find yourself in.
Your deepest identity is something that only you can define,
and it's sort of only yours.
Sort of apart from everything else.
And there's a book by Charles Taylor called A Secular Age,
and he calls this the buffered self.
But it basically means yourself, your true self,
is sort of like, sort of, well, sort of protected from everything else.
Right? It's deep down inside yourself.
Right?
Now this is a very prominent view.
So one study found the following.
Eighty-four percent of Americans believe that enjoying yourself is the highest goal of life.
Eighty-six percent indicate that to enjoy yourself,
you must pursue the things you desire most.
And ninety-one percent say that to find yourself,
you should look within yourself.
And for American Christians, the numbers are
sixty-six percent, seventy-two percent, and seventy-six percent.
So seventy-six percent of American Christians say
that to find yourself, look within yourself.
Right?
So this is this view.
Right?
Which has become very widespread in our society
long before the last ten years
when a sort of transgender identity
has become a big public thing.
Right?
So this is a much bigger cultural phenomenon.
So the problem is,
that framework is deeply unbiblical.
Not simply because it affirms
non-biblical gender identity,
but more fundamentally because it idolizes
the individual and our internal self-concept
as the source of our truest identity.
So I think we need to step back
and sort of say,
how do we engage with this broader assumption
that has just become, like,
even more widely accepted than being transgender?
Right?
This assumption is far more widely,
is even more widely accepted
than the specific issue we're talking about.
And how do we examine ourselves
to see whether we have bought into this
at some level or other?
And what's the alternative?
Biblically, right?
So many people embrace this idea
of sort of expressive individualism
or sort of your true self
is only deep inside yourself
because they're reacting to negative experiences
or perceptions of more traditional sources of identity.
So in traditional societies,
your identity does not come from deep within yourself.
Your identity comes from your family
or your society,
your position in a hierarchical society,
and your role, your social role.
And so many people look at that
and they're like,
that's oppressive,
or I've experienced that as oppressive.
Some, in many societies,
those roles can be very rigid,
especially roles about gender and family.
You know, many people,
even in our society today,
have been sexually abused, right?
So that's just one example
where people sort of would say,
that's a violation of who I am,
and so, you know,
who am I really?
Well, it can't be determined by sort of
what other people have done to me
or other people around me.
Now, Christians should share these concerns, right?
And the Bible is not actually promoting
sort of these sort of traditional sources of identity
as the end-all, be-all, right?
And the Bible actually affirms the value of the individual
as an image-bearer of God.
So the Bible actually,
you know, in traditional societies,
you know, particularly Jesus,
Jesus says to his disciples,
you know, you have to be willing
to leave
mother and father
to follow me.
In a traditional society,
that's heresy.
That's like, what?
Like, you know,
that's leaving your true identity
to follow Jesus.
And, right, so,
you know,
we can agree, right,
sometimes traditional
sort of identity
can fail to honor
how God has made
each particular person.
But,
I think there's also a problem
with the modern idea
that your true self
is sort of
hidden deep
with inside yourself
and only you can access that
and only you can define that
and only you can discern
what that is.
because what do we find
when we look deep
inside ourselves?
Well,
we find
our desires
are constantly competing.
Okay,
obvious example,
I want to be healthy
and in shape
and I really like ice cream.
I could eat ice cream
every night.
You know,
like,
sometimes after my kids
go to bed,
I don't have anybody
who's going to be clamoring
to share it with me
and,
man,
I enjoy that.
Chocolate,
whatever,
right?
Those are competing desires.
Or,
I want to have integrity
and character
but I also want to succeed
in this world
and sometimes
there's going to be
a tension there,
right?
Which one of those
do I prioritize?
I want to,
I have impulses
toward being aggressive
and I have impulses
toward being sensitive.
We also find
that our desires
are constantly changing,
right?
Why do people stress out
about decisions often
because we don't even
know what we want,
right?
And our desires
are constantly changing.
We don't know what
we really want to prioritize.
You know,
it's not just that
decisions are hard
to sort of work
through logistically.
Sometimes we just
don't even know
what we want.
And then how we do,
how we prioritize
our constantly competing
and changing desires
is affected
by our society.
So,
take the impulses
toward aggression
and toward sensitivity,
okay?
I have some Scandinavian
heritage,
so I like to imagine
that I have some
Viking ancestors.
I don't know
whether I really do,
but say one of my
Viking ancestors,
he would feel like,
ah,
the aggression
is me.
Of course,
that's how,
you know,
I'm going to embrace
that impulse
toward aggression
and resist the impulse
toward sensitivity,
okay?
If you're a young
professional dude today,
you will be taught
to resist that
impulse toward aggression
and maybe go to therapy
for anger management,
right?
And embrace your
sensitive side,
relational side,
right?
Like,
these things are very
socially sort of
influenced.
And so,
currently,
our social context
is increasingly
encouraging people
to define their own
gender and sexual
identity based on
how they feel
internally,
apart from any
external guiding
principles,
except for not
violating someone
else,
someone else's
ability to do that,
and even apart
from the given
structure of their
physical body.
So,
again,
this is evidenced
by how many
different names
there are,
and sort of
constantly developing
names for sort of
gender and sexual
identities.
Facebook got to
71 gender options
and then they just
added a fill-in-the-blank
option.
But this can be
deeply confusing
and anxiety-producing.
I mean,
we live in a society
with the highest
rates of anxiety,
probably in the
history of the
world,
even though the
level of physical
dangers in our
society is much
lower than in
many other parts
of the world
and many places
in history.
So,
I think there's a
lot of anxiety
and a burden
that we place on
ourselves when we
feel like our
true identity is
something that only
we can define
within ourselves
because deep
within ourselves
we don't truly
find ourselves.
one author who
I don't think is a
Christian wrote,
my sense of self
comes from myself,
that can't be
right.
Right?
And especially if
you're trying to
find out who you
are and then you
feel, I'm trying to
find out who I am,
but I have to look
deeper into myself
to find out who I
am, but within
myself I don't
really know who I
am, doesn't that
become an endless
cycle?
Right?
Or whenever we
attach ourselves to
some idea of who
we are, then that
might change down
the road.
And so this is the
world that we're
living in.
And it can be a
big burden because
if nothing else can
give us our self
worth, if nobody
else can sort of
bestow that upon
us, then we have
to achieve that
all alone.
And that can be a
crushing burden if
we really think
about how do I
convince myself
that I am deeply
worth something
without anyone
else who can
truly sort of
give me that
verdict that I'm
longing for.
So I think as
Christians we need
to realize the,
recognize what
attracts people to
sort of this
framework, right?
There's a hunger
for identity, who
am I?
Right?
That's a question
every human being
is dealing with.
And community,
where do I belong?
And redemption,
is there meaning
to my suffering?
Is there meaning
to my pain?
Those are questions
that everybody's
wrestling with.
And I think as
Christians we need
to both be seeking
Christ and how he
speaks to those
deepest needs and
desires and
presenting Christ to
people who are
struggling with those
questions.
Right?
We find our
truest selves, not
only within ourselves,
not only from our
society, but in
being known and
loved by God.
And then through
the means that
God has provided,
through God's
people and God's
family around us,
and through his
word and through
just sort of who
God has made us
to be.
All right, let me
do this next
section.
I'm going to skip
the end for next
week.
How ought we to
approach a Christian
who has an
intersex condition,
who has an
experience gender
dysphoria?
Now next week we'll
talk more about how
we relate to our
neighbors who identify
as LGBT or
intersex or other
identities.
But let me just
speak briefly.
How do we approach
a Christian who
might have one of
these conditions?
So first, we
shouldn't withdraw
even if it's hard
to understand or
empathize with
their experience.
People who are
bearing difficult
burdens will need
extra care and love
from the body of
Christ, not less.
Second, we should
affirm and encourage
the goodness of how
God has made them
as male or female,
especially in ways
that they can
receive.
you know, I
think it's best
to sort of start
with what somebody
can sort of receive
and accept and
sort of affirming
their maleness or
femaleness in that
way.
We should resist.
I think sometimes
there are sort of
very rigid stereotypes
of what it means to
be male or female
that sort of actually
reinforce this idea
that, well, I'm not
really in the right
body.
And so I think in
the church we need
to be careful not
to sort of add
unbiblical stereotypes
to what the Bible
actually says about
the gift of being
male and female.
We should care for
the whole person
and not fixate only
on their gender
identity, right?
Maybe somebody is,
you know, especially
if somebody's suicidal,
right?
Maybe the, maybe,
maybe, well, okay,
let's talk about
it's God has a purpose
for you to live.
You know, maybe there's,
you need to just sort of
put the conversation
about gender identity
on the shelf and
there's another more
pressing concern.
And then what if a
transgender identifying
individual comes to
faith in Christ?
That will likely be a
complicated process,
but there are people
who have.
So one man's name
is Walt Heyer.
So he went through
a transgender surgery.
He was initially
very excited about it,
sort of, and identifying
as a woman.
A few years later,
regretted it.
And eight years later,
ended up going back
to his birth sex
identity as a male.
He's written some books.
If you Google him,
you can find references
to some articles he's
written about his
experience.
So let me open it up
for questions since,
as usual, I'm running
late.
But we've got seven
minutes.
Peter.
When you were writing
up that section on
the statistics about
how people embrace
embrace the idea
that individuality
is sort of the
highest calling
and the thing
that we should
reach for,
it immediately
resonated with me
in regard to
Satan's sort of
manipulation of
Adam and Eve,
what they promised
them.
And then it was
kind of making
correlations with
how we as
Christians understand
what it means that
right now he's the
prince of the
power of the air.
And also thinking
about the church of
Satan, which
obviously is small
and we like to
think fairly
insignificant, but
still the main
thing that they
preach is not a
literal hell, literal
God and the devil,
but worship of self.
Do you see a thread
running through all
those things and do
you think that that
should kind of inform
us as we kind of
form our attitudes
towards how we're
going to be thinking
about this issue?
Yeah.
Well, I mean,
worship of self is,
I mean, where is it?
Second Timothy, Paul
says in the last
days there will be
people who will be
lovers of themselves,
lovers of money,
it goes on, long
list, of all kinds
of qualities that you
can see a lot, you
can see pretty much
all of those in our
society today.
But yeah, like self
worship, I mean,
I mean, that's pretty
rampant, right?
And again, when we
don't worship God, we
long to worship
something else.
So whether it's
sort of explicitly
worshiping ourself
or worshiping some
other created thing,
it's often a good
thing, right?
And again, yourself,
like, yes, God made
you, like, he loves
you, you know,
there's, you're
bearing the image
of God, and yet,
yeah, so yes,
was it part of the
devil's lie to Adam
and Eve to sort of
worship themselves?
Yeah, right, what
was Eve being, what
was, what did the
serpent sort of tempt
Eve to do?
Rely on her, sort of,
her own perception
became determinative,
right?
She looked at the
tree, looks good,
looks beautiful,
looks tasty,
I'll take it.
And in the process,
explicitly rejecting
sort of God's command,
and also not trusting
that God's command is
good, not trusting that
God is for us, right?
Isn't that what, what
Satan sometimes wants
to tempt us to think,
is that God isn't
really for me.
And so I can't really
trust what he says,
because I, I can't,
I can't rely on him as
being on my side,
ultimately.
Right?
And of course, isn't that,
and isn't that, I mean,
when we look to the
cross, isn't that what
Christ is hanging there
and saying?
Like, I'm for you,
and not against you,
and I'm willing to go
to this, for that
sake.
And yes, following
Christ might be
painful, he talks about
taking up our own
cross and following
him, but we have
one who is, who is
for us.
And denying
ourselves.
And so we can deny
ourselves for the sake
of the one who is
ultimately for us.
Right.
Ben.
So, so Peter
Kreeft talks about
the possibility of
gendered souls as
well as bodies,
because we're not
just bodily or
spiritual, but there's
this connection.
And suggests the
possibility that there
could be a mismatch.
And so in such a
case, that would be
a candidate for a
sex change operation,
whether of body or
soul, whether earthly
or heavenly.
So the question I have
is, the thrust you
seem to have is the
soul or what have
you should ideally
shift to switch to
match the body.
And why, why that
direction and not the
other direction?
Yeah, why that
direction and not the
other direction?
Well, so I think, I
mean, I don't see
any, I mean, I
think the idea of
gendered souls, so
the idea is that your
gendered body is sort
of separate from your
gendered soul.
Right?
Or is he saying,
like, that's a result of
the fall that there's...
The mismatch would be a
result of the fall.
Yeah.
But because we are...
These aren't, you know,
we're gendered beings
kind of through and
through.
It's not just our
bodies.
Yeah.
Yes.
So I think we can...
I think one thing that
we can positively sort of
affirm in people who
experience gendered
dysphoria is this longing
for wholeness or sort
of congruence or sort
of, like, something that
seems to fit together.
Right?
Yes.
Like, that's something we
can sort of affirm and
say, yeah, like, it is...
That is a good thing to
want.
Right?
And, I mean, yes, so
it's true that both our
bodies and our souls are
affected by the fall.
So I guess I would say I
don't see the idea of
gendered souls.
I mean, I need to think
more about that.
I don't see that clearly
taught anywhere in
scripture.
Right?
And then how do you
identify that your
gendered soul is, you
know, different than your
body?
I can't...
I think that might end up
becoming a very subjective
perception, right, based on
your idea of what a
gendered soul is.
I don't even know whether...
Yeah, I mean...
Greg, can I make a quick
comment on that?
Oh, sure.
John, just please help me.
What's the question?
It's hard to hear all
of us.
So, wait a minute.
The notion is that there are
souls and our souls are
gendered.
And our bodies are gendered.
And maybe there's a
mismatch.
And if there is a mismatch,
why should we think
redemption might not be,
well, let's just get the
body to match the soul,
my perception of what
the soul is.
And then if we can
anticipate redemption,
ultimately, then that
would lead to maybe an
interventionist type thing
now to adjust our bodies
to what we perceive our
soul gender to be.
So that seems to be
probably.
Yeah.
Close enough.
Chris getting that from
Quinas.
Yes.
Quinas thinks that the soul
is just the spirit of the
body.
So there's a deeper
connection between those
things.
Those are not going to be
differential.
But leaving Quinas to the
side, it seems like maybe a
place to go in Scripture
would be 1 Corinthians 15,
where it's talking about
resurrection and saying
that God actually chooses
the body that he has,
that God actually chooses
the body for us.
And it talks about the body
and on that basis,
he is going to work the
final redemption in
accordance with the body
that he has chosen for us.
So that does seem like the
redemptive trajectory there.
Well, first of all, that our
deep identity reflected in the
body is God's choice.
And then, and he is, it's
going to be something that
even though there might be all
kinds of dysphoria in the
in-between time, there is a
redemptive, there is a
redemptive trajectory and that
seems to be based on the
original choice that he gave us
in terms of our, of our body.
So that would seem like, um,
it, it, it is connected.
There, there is a redemptive
significance that, that
predicts the horizon, give in
the body that we have given.
At least based on 1 Corinthians 15.
I mean, that would be probably
the place that I would go to say,
uh, it's going to fall in the
body.
Now, if the body's ambiguous and
a couple of rare, who, who knows
those situations?
I don't know, but that seems
to suggest that, that, that the
body that we have given, that,
that is a choice of God and
that's indicative of how he's
going to redeem who we are.
Yeah.
I wonder if Psalm 139 might be
relevant about God knitting us
together in our mother's womb as
well, sort of, you know, yes,
we don't experience our bodies in
the sort of pure goodness of
God's original creation.
Yes, they're all sort of affected
by the fall, but yet there is
still that sense, you know, even
David can say, even though David
in another Psalm says, behold, I
was conceived in sin and iniquity,
he still says, you knit me
together in my mother's womb.
Sort of our, our bodies are, um,
our good, good gifts from God and,
and meant to guide us sort of in
how we, how we honor, how do we
offer them to God and honor God
with them.
All right.
Well, uh, I've got to end there,
but we will come back next week.
Thank you for being here and, uh,
we'll look forward to next week.
Thank you.