WEBVTT

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 All right, good morning, everyone.

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 Welcome to week six of our class on the ethics of life,

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! where we've been exploring the meaning and implications of the sixth commandment,

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! which is, you shall not murder.

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 Let me give just a quick review before we dive in this morning.

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 We spent the first two weeks of our class

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 looking at the kind of biblical principles behind this commandment.

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 And we said there in those classes that one of the implications

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 of this sixth commandment was that the church was to become more and more

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 through the gospel a community of honor and dignity for all people,

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 a community of hope, and a community of reconciliation.

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 Then we spent two weeks kind of discussing some of the practical implications of the sixth commandment,

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 and we started at the very earliest stages of human life,

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 specifically looking at the topic of abortion.

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 And we saw that across numerous biblical passages,

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 the Bible makes no distinction between the dignity of human life inside and outside the womb.

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 And so we argued that abortion is morally wrong.

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 Then, just last week, we discussed capital punishment,

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 and we noticed that Christians have understood

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 and applied those biblical texts differently on this question.

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 And I think it's safe to say that what we observed was that capital punishment

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 was both permitted and commanded by God in the Old Testament.

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 And we saw that in a passage like Romans 13,

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 capital punishment by civil authority seems also to be permitted in the New Testament.

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 But we also gave some thought and considered that,

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 given the different contexts in which we live today,

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 perhaps not everything that is permissible is fruitful or prudent.

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 So we noticed that there are different approaches among Christians

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 as to how best to handle that question today.

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 Now, our original plan, if you were here last week,

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 was to discuss the topic of war today.

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 But we needed to make a schedule change

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 because I realized I'm going to be out of town next week.

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 So Tom was gracious enough to swap weeks with me.

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 So next week, Tom is going to lead us in a consideration of Christian approaches to war

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 and pacifism and just war.

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 Today, we're going to talk about self-defense.

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 Self-defense in light of the Sixth Commandment.

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 So the question before us this morning is this.

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 Does Scripture prohibit the use of physical force

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 to defend oneself against a physical attack?

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 If we're being attacked, if our life is threatened,

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 or if the life of a loved one is being threatened,

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 are we permitted to use physical force, even lethal force,

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 to defend ourselves or others?

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 And if so, is it right for a Christian to own and use a weapon,

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 such as a gun, for that purpose?

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 Now, we're talking about individual citizens, Christians.

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 We're not talking about the state or police forces today.

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 I think we looked at Romans 13 last week, and we'll look at it again next week,

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 where we saw that there is a place for state and for governmental authorities

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 to use that kind of force.

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 But we're asking about us personally.

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 Now, again, as we saw last week concerning capital punishment,

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 and what we'll see this week with respect to war,

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 or next week with respect to war,

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 is that faithful Christians do take differing views on this question.

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 But I think the best place to begin

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 as we think about this question of self-defense

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 is with Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount.

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 So, if you turn to Matthew 5, verses 38 through 48,

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 we'll begin our reflections there.

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 So, Matthew 5, 38 through 48.

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 Jesus says this.

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 He says,

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 You have heard that it was said,

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 an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

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 But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil.

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 But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek,

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 turn to him the other also.

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 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,

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 let him have your cloak as well.

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 And if anyone forces you to go one mile,

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 go with him two miles.

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 Give to the one who begs from you,

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 and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

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 You have heard that it was said,

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 you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.

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 But I say to you, love your enemies,

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 and pray for those who persecute you,

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 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.

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 For he makes his son to rise on the evil and on the good,

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 and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

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 For if you love those who love you,

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 what reward do you have?

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 Do not even the tax collectors do the same.

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 And if you greet only your brothers,

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 what more are you doing than others?

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 Do not even the Gentiles do the same.

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 You, therefore, must be perfect,

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 as your heavenly Father is perfect.

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 All right, let's pray.

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 Father, we thank you for this morning.

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 Thanks that we can gather together as your people,

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 Lord, and come to your word,

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 and ask for your wisdom and guidance.

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 And we thank you that through your Spirit,

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 you do offer that to us.

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 Lord, thank you that we as your people can live

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 according to your word by the power of your Spirit.

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 And God, thank you that through your Spirit,

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 you give us charity as we wrestle with these tricky issues together.

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 So God, we pray that as a result of our meditation on your word this morning,

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 we'd come away with a richer sense of your goodness,

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 and your power, and your beauty,

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 and a deeper sense of living for you,

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 living faithfully unto you.

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 We pray this in Jesus' name.

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 Amen.

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 Okay, so some Christians would certainly understand Jesus

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 to be prohibiting all forms of self-defense here, right?

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 Jesus says, don't resist the one who's evil,

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 but if anyone slaps you on the right cheek,

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 turn to him the other also.

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 Now, often this interpretation of Jesus' words,

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 if one takes that interpretation,

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 is part of a larger interpretation of Scripture

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 that sees all use of physical force or violence as wrong and evil,

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 whether by individuals or by the state.

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 So, for example, the Anabaptist tradition

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 has been especially known for its commitment

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 to this sort of total nonviolence.

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 Now, other Christians would say

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 that Jesus here isn't really speaking about self-defense

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 in the way that we usually mean it.

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 The slap on the right cheek, it's argued,

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 is not actually a form of physical violence or a lethal attack,

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 nor is it kind of physical abuse.

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 Rather, in the context of the ancient world,

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 the slap on the cheek was actually what we might call an insult.

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 It was a form of social humiliation and contempt.

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 It didn't threaten your life.

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 It actually threatened your reputation and your dignity.

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 And in response to that, Jesus says, don't retaliate.

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 Rather than returning insult for insult,

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 rather than kind of brooding over how you're going to get them back

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 and make them pay, Jesus says, turn the other cheek.

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 Let their insults fly.

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 In fact, the greater strength in that moment

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 isn't hurling your insults back at them.

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 It's breaking the cycle of retaliation

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 and refusing to respond in kind.

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 Even if that means you receive more insults in the process.

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 Okay, so we've got these sort of two broad readings of this text.

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 Now, I think exegetically, putting this passage in context,

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 I think that second reading of Jesus's words in Matthew 5

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 is actually more accurate than the first.

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 I don't think Matthew 5 is speaking directly

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 to the question of whether Christians can justly defend themselves

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 against a violent attacker.

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 I think Jesus is giving an example of how it would be easy to retaliate

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 and escalate a conflict,

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 and as his followers were not to respond in that way.

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 Rather, as children of our heavenly Father,

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 we're called to love our enemies,

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 to pray for those who persecute us,

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 and to do good to those who are unjust

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 and who may seek to do us wrong.

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 But,

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 if Jesus isn't speaking directly

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 to our kind of particular question about self-defense here,

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 are there not still principles in what Jesus is teaching

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 that could and should apply to that situation?

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 Well, I think the answer to that is yes.

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 But in order to do that rightly,

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 we need to consider this passage

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 along with some other passages in Scripture

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 that might apply to this same question.

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 So, let's do that.

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 Let's look at some other passages.

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 First, I think we should consider

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 that Jesus' clear teaching about non-retaliation

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 and love of enemy

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 does not mean

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 that Christians should never remove themselves from danger.

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 In fact, I think there's plenty of scriptural precedent

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 to suggest just the opposite.

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 There are passages that seem to clearly encourage

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 escaping from danger.

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 Right?

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 Think about 1 Samuel 19, 9-10

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 where David flees from Saul.

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 Here's the passage from 1 Samuel.

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 It says,

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 Then a harmful spirit from the Lord came upon Saul

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 as he sat in his house with his spear in his hand

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 and David was playing the liar.

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 And Saul sought to pin David to the wall with the spear.

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 But he eluded Saul

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 so that he struck the spear into the wall

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 and David fled and escaped that night.

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 Right?

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 So, here's an example of David.

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 His life is at danger

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 and he runs away.

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 And the scriptures seem to say,

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 That's probably a good idea.

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 Right?

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 Get yourself out of danger.

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 Interestingly,

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 as we follow the story of David and Saul

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 in 1 Samuel,

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 even though Saul repeatedly tries to kill David,

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 David never retaliates against him.

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 In fact,

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 David refused to kill Saul

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 in what we might call self-defense

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 even when David has numerous opportunities to do so

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 because Saul is the Lord's anointed.

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 Right?

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 David says he has no right to lift his hand

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 against the Lord's anointed.

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 So, at least in this example,

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 David's treatment of Saul

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 seems to support Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5

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 that we should refuse to retaliate when wronged.

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 But Jesus kind of applies that principle

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 to all of our relationships.

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 Okay, we see another example of escaping from danger

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 in the New Testament as well.

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 In 2 Corinthians 11, 32 through 33,

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 Paul says,

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 So when facing physical violence,

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 Christians should certainly seek,

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 if possible,

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 to remove themselves from danger.

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 Jesus' teaching about loving our enemies

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 and turning the other cheek

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 and not retaliating

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 doesn't mean we should keep ourselves

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 in the position

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 where others can persist in harming us.

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 Okay?

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 All right, second.

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 Second thing.

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 Jesus' teaching about non-retaliation

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 doesn't mean

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 that we shouldn't take lawful means

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 to prevent violence and unjust treatment.

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 Right?

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 Even though Jesus has turned the other cheek,

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 that doesn't mean we shouldn't take lawful means

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 to prevent violence and unjust treatment.

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 And the New Testament offers numerous examples

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 of the apostles verbally and legally

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 defending themselves and others

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 before the sort of violent courts

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 and authorities of their day.

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 Just to rattle off a few examples,

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 in Acts 4,

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 Peter and John are arrested by the Sanhedrin

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 and they speak boldly in their defense.

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 In Acts 5,

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 the apostles again defend themselves

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 before the Sanhedrin.

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 In Acts 7,

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 Stephen gives a long and bold verbal defense

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 before his martyrdom.

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 The apostle Paul likewise

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 defends himself numerous times.

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 In Acts 16,

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 he defends himself

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 to the Roman city authorities in Philippi.

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 And at the end of Acts,

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 in chapters 22 through 26,

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 we have a series of legal defenses

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 that Paul makes before Roman centurions

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 and crowds and Jewish courts

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 and Roman rulers.

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 And then when we turn to Paul's letters,

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 we see Paul defending himself

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 and his ministry

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 against a number of accusations.

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 Okay, so what's the lesson here?

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 Following Jesus' teaching

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 about non-retaliation

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 doesn't mean

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 that we cannot give a clear,

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 truthful,

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 even bold,

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 verbal,

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 and legal defense

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 against accusation

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 or even against the threat

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 of physical violence.

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 We're meant to take

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 those lawful means

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 to protect ourselves

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 and others.

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 Now, third thing to keep in mind,

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 one of those lawful means

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 to which Christians

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 can and should appeal

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 are the God-given

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 civil authorities.

00:12:59.060 --> 00:12:59.840
 Okay, let me read

00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:00.540
 Romans 13,

00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:01.300
 1 through 7.

00:13:01.420 --> 00:13:02.320
 And if you'd like to turn there,

00:13:02.380 --> 00:13:03.000
 this is a little bit

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:03.620
 of a longer one.

00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:04.620
 You can follow along there.

00:13:04.680 --> 00:13:05.460
 Romans 13,

00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:06.840
 1 through 7.

00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:10.100
 So as we seek to follow

00:13:10.100 --> 00:13:11.500
 the principle of Jesus' command

00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:12.960
 that we're not to retaliate

00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:14.120
 when others do us wrong,

00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:15.759
 we see that it's

00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:16.680
 quite permissible

00:13:16.680 --> 00:13:17.720
 to remove ourselves

00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:18.180
 from danger.

00:13:18.280 --> 00:13:18.879
 It's quite permissible

00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:19.780
 to take lawful means

00:13:19.780 --> 00:13:20.620
 to prevent it.

00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:21.720
 And here we're going to see

00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:22.800
 that one of those lawful means

00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:23.820
 to which we can appeal

00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:25.180
 are the God-given

00:13:25.180 --> 00:13:25.840
 civil authorities

00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.080
 who are entrusted by God

00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:29.800
 with the right use

00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:31.100
 of physical force.

00:13:31.280 --> 00:13:32.280
 Let me read Romans 13,

00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:32.820
 1 through 7.

00:13:33.540 --> 00:13:33.960
 Paul says,

00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:35.220
 Let every person be subject

00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:36.480
 to the governing authorities.

00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:37.860
 For there's no authority

00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:38.560
 except from God,

00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:39.300
 and those that exist

00:13:39.300 --> 00:13:40.720
 have been instituted by God.

00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:41.820
 Therefore,

00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:42.740
 whoever resists

00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:43.360
 the authorities

00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:44.240
 resists what God

00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:44.800
 has appointed,

00:13:45.340 --> 00:13:46.440
 and those who resist

00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:47.360
 will incur judgment.

00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:49.280
 For rulers are not a terror

00:13:49.280 --> 00:13:50.000
 to good conduct,

00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:50.660
 but to bad.

00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:52.180
 Would you have no fear

00:13:52.180 --> 00:13:53.240
 of the one who is in authority?

00:13:53.780 --> 00:13:54.960
 Then do what is good,

00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:56.100
 and you will receive

00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:56.639
 his approval.

00:13:57.379 --> 00:13:58.660
 For he is God's servant

00:13:58.660 --> 00:13:59.360
 for your good.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:01.300
 But if you do wrong,

00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:02.220
 be afraid.

00:14:02.800 --> 00:14:03.879
 For he does not bear

00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:05.100
 the sword in vain.

00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:07.439
 For he is the servant of God,

00:14:07.899 --> 00:14:09.460
 an avenger who carries out

00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:11.179
 God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:12.720
 Therefore,

00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:14.100
 one must be in subjection

00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:15.639
 not only to avoid God's wrath,

00:14:15.740 --> 00:14:16.519
 but also for the sake

00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:17.379
 of conscience.

00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:18.960
 For because of this,

00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:19.960
 you also pay taxes

00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:21.080
 for the authorities

00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:22.059
 or ministers of God

00:14:22.059 --> 00:14:23.539
 attending to this very thing.

00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:25.980
 Pay to all what is owed to them,

00:14:26.539 --> 00:14:27.919
 taxes to whom taxes are due,

00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:30.179
 revenue to whom revenue is owed,

00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:32.259
 respect to whom respect is owed,

00:14:32.259 --> 00:14:35.159
 honor to whom honor is owed.

00:14:37.419 --> 00:14:38.399
 So in this passage,

00:14:38.500 --> 00:14:41.059
 we see that Paul affirms

00:14:41.059 --> 00:14:43.279
 the role of rightful

00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:44.240
 government authority

00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.539
 to use physical force

00:14:46.539 --> 00:14:47.819
 to stop evil

00:14:47.819 --> 00:14:50.279
 and to punish evildoers.

00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:51.779
 Paul says,

00:14:52.299 --> 00:14:53.919
 they do not bear

00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.740
 the sword in vain.

00:14:57.139 --> 00:14:58.120
 Now, of course,

00:14:58.459 --> 00:14:59.199
 the New Testament

00:14:59.199 --> 00:15:00.679
 knows very well

00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:02.500
 that human governments

00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:03.939
 can become corrupt,

00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:05.879
 that human governments

00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:07.879
 can themselves

00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:08.779
 become instruments

00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:10.000
 of wrongdoing and evil.

00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:11.899
 But nonetheless,

00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:13.779
 this passage teaches

00:15:13.779 --> 00:15:14.959
 that God institutes

00:15:14.959 --> 00:15:15.819
 and appoints

00:15:15.819 --> 00:15:17.059
 certain human authorities,

00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:18.379
 what we will call today

00:15:18.379 --> 00:15:18.980
 the state

00:15:18.980 --> 00:15:19.840
 or the governing authorities,

00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:21.340
 in part to administer

00:15:21.340 --> 00:15:21.939
 his justice

00:15:21.939 --> 00:15:23.980
 by punishing wrongdoing.

00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:26.259
 So when we see governments

00:15:26.259 --> 00:15:27.340
 acting unjustly

00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:28.159
 or corruptly,

00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:29.600
 our response isn't

00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:31.399
 to tear them all down,

00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:33.720
 but to reform them

00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:34.639
 and to change them

00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:35.580
 and to call them

00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:37.019
 to justice, right?

00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:39.980
 So what does this mean then?

00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:41.399
 Jesus' words

00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:42.639
 about non-retaliation

00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:43.620
 and loving our enemies

00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:45.740
 do not exclude

00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:47.560
 calling the police

00:15:47.560 --> 00:15:48.960
 when you or your loved ones

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:49.500
 are in danger.

00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:50.259
 Now, I know that sounds

00:15:50.259 --> 00:15:51.399
 kind of obvious to us,

00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:52.360
 but I think there is

00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:53.500
 very good biblical precedent

00:15:53.500 --> 00:15:53.960
 for it.

00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:55.000
 In fact,

00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:56.080
 this is exactly

00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:57.179
 what you should do

00:15:57.179 --> 00:15:58.480
 when you are facing

00:15:58.480 --> 00:15:59.419
 physical attack

00:15:59.419 --> 00:16:00.419
 or experiencing

00:16:00.419 --> 00:16:01.379
 physical abuse

00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:02.460
 or imminent danger.

00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:04.200
 Remove yourself

00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:05.039
 from harm as quickly

00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:05.759
 as possible

00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.480
 and call the authorities.

00:16:08.560 --> 00:16:09.200
 In fact,

00:16:09.259 --> 00:16:10.240
 this act of removing

00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:11.159
 yourself from harm

00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:12.419
 and calling the police

00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:12.939
 as it were,

00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:14.740
 is I think a clear way

00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:16.559
 to obey Jesus' command

00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:18.039
 not to retaliate

00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:19.399
 and to love our enemies.

00:16:20.579 --> 00:16:21.360
 Allowing someone

00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:22.519
 to do wrong to us

00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:23.459
 and do sin against us

00:16:23.459 --> 00:16:24.860
 is actually not loving them.

00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:26.279
 It is loving

00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:27.299
 to stop the violence

00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:28.099
 from being done,

00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:29.579
 to stop the sin

00:16:29.579 --> 00:16:30.219
 from being committed

00:16:30.219 --> 00:16:31.179
 as much as we're able.

00:16:34.219 --> 00:16:34.659
 Okay.

00:16:36.099 --> 00:16:37.099
 But what if,

00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:38.659
 what if,

00:16:38.740 --> 00:16:38.899
 again,

00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:40.019
 in this sort of question

00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:40.719
 that we're considering

00:16:40.719 --> 00:16:41.500
 about self-defense,

00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:42.039
 what if,

00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:43.559
 what if the attack

00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:44.259
 happens suddenly?

00:16:45.099 --> 00:16:46.059
 What if you aren't able

00:16:46.059 --> 00:16:46.759
 to escape

00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:48.399
 or help the person

00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:49.279
 in danger to escape?

00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:50.579
 What if you call the police

00:16:50.579 --> 00:16:51.419
 but they won't arrive

00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:52.919
 in time to stop the attack?

00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:53.279
 What if,

00:16:53.539 --> 00:16:54.299
 what if you don't have

00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:55.319
 the means to contact

00:16:55.319 --> 00:16:56.559
 the police in that moment?

00:16:57.519 --> 00:16:59.019
 Is using force

00:16:59.019 --> 00:17:00.399
 or even lethal force

00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.059
 as a means of self-defense

00:17:02.059 --> 00:17:02.699
 justified

00:17:02.699 --> 00:17:04.079
 in those instances?

00:17:06.099 --> 00:17:06.519
 Well,

00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:06.899
 I think there are

00:17:06.899 --> 00:17:07.480
 a few passages

00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:08.659
 that seem to point

00:17:08.659 --> 00:17:09.460
 in the direction

00:17:09.460 --> 00:17:11.819
 of saying

00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:12.279
 that God

00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:13.620
 does allow

00:17:13.620 --> 00:17:14.880
 the use

00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:16.299
 of some degree

00:17:16.299 --> 00:17:16.779
 of force

00:17:16.779 --> 00:17:17.940
 to stop harm

00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:19.160
 and defend oneself.

00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:22.279
 The one that is perhaps

00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:23.059
 most relevant

00:17:23.059 --> 00:17:24.400
 is from the Mosaic case law

00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:25.299
 in Exodus 22.

00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:26.860
 So in Exodus 22,

00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:28.200
 two through three,

00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:30.980
 Exodus 22,

00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:32.120
 two through three,

00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:35.319
 the case law

00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:35.939
 of Moses

00:17:35.939 --> 00:17:36.399
 says this.

00:17:36.479 --> 00:17:36.779
 It says,

00:17:37.419 --> 00:17:38.179
 if a thief

00:17:38.179 --> 00:17:40.199
 is found

00:17:40.199 --> 00:17:40.939
 breaking in

00:17:40.939 --> 00:17:43.259
 and is struck

00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:44.799
 so that he dies,

00:17:45.959 --> 00:17:46.939
 there shall be

00:17:46.939 --> 00:17:48.699
 no blood guilt

00:17:48.699 --> 00:17:49.619
 for him.

00:17:50.739 --> 00:17:51.339
 But

00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:53.239
 if the sun

00:17:53.239 --> 00:17:53.859
 has risen

00:17:53.859 --> 00:17:54.439
 on him,

00:17:54.959 --> 00:17:56.179
 there shall be

00:17:56.179 --> 00:17:56.639
 blood guilt

00:17:56.639 --> 00:17:57.019
 for him.

00:17:58.879 --> 00:17:59.439
 Okay,

00:17:59.539 --> 00:17:59.879
 what is it?

00:17:59.919 --> 00:18:00.639
 What is this law

00:18:00.639 --> 00:18:01.439
 describing?

00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:02.340
 What is the scenario

00:18:02.340 --> 00:18:02.759
 here?

00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:04.299
 So this law

00:18:04.299 --> 00:18:04.880
 seems to be

00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:05.420
 assuming

00:18:05.420 --> 00:18:07.400
 that

00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:08.600
 if someone,

00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:09.500
 say,

00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:10.340
 breaks into

00:18:10.340 --> 00:18:10.740
 your home

00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:11.100
 at night,

00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:12.660
 you will be

00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:13.000
 startled

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.320
 and you will

00:18:14.320 --> 00:18:15.180
 defend yourself

00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:15.820
 against them.

00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:17.900
 And if in the

00:18:17.900 --> 00:18:18.860
 act of defending

00:18:18.860 --> 00:18:19.799
 yourself at night,

00:18:20.120 --> 00:18:21.340
 you happen

00:18:21.340 --> 00:18:22.539
 to kill them,

00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:24.039
 the Mosaic law

00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:24.840
 says there is

00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:25.779
 no blood guilt

00:18:25.779 --> 00:18:26.340
 for that.

00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:27.400
 In other words,

00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:28.180
 you are not going

00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:28.720
 to be held

00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:29.120
 guilty

00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:30.519
 for his death.

00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.279
 As we would

00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:32.500
 say,

00:18:32.580 --> 00:18:33.019
 it was an

00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:33.480
 act of

00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:34.220
 self-defense.

00:18:36.259 --> 00:18:36.820
 But

00:18:36.820 --> 00:18:37.380
 interestingly,

00:18:39.420 --> 00:18:40.680
 the Mosaic law

00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:41.340
 says if the

00:18:41.340 --> 00:18:41.920
 theft happens

00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:42.820
 during the day

00:18:42.820 --> 00:18:43.539
 and you kill

00:18:43.539 --> 00:18:43.779
 him,

00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.080
 you are

00:18:45.080 --> 00:18:45.380
 guilty.

00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:48.340
 The presumption

00:18:48.340 --> 00:18:49.120
 seems to be

00:18:49.120 --> 00:18:49.759
 that if the sun

00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:50.299
 has risen,

00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:51.519
 less lethal

00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:52.019
 remedies,

00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:53.299
 including help

00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:53.740
 from others,

00:18:53.840 --> 00:18:54.500
 are available.

00:18:54.500 --> 00:18:56.359
 and the

00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:57.000
 availability

00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.059
 of such

00:18:58.059 --> 00:18:58.819
 alternate

00:18:58.819 --> 00:18:59.259
 remedies

00:18:59.259 --> 00:19:00.460
 in a case

00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:01.000
 like that

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:01.440
 or in an

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.019
 analogous

00:19:02.019 --> 00:19:02.420
 case,

00:19:02.819 --> 00:19:03.079
 well,

00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:03.380
 that would

00:19:03.380 --> 00:19:03.859
 be subject

00:19:03.859 --> 00:19:04.859
 for deliberation

00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:05.460
 in court

00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:06.619
 as judges

00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:07.160
 are asked

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:07.720
 to assign

00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:08.279
 levels of

00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:08.539
 guilt.

00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:09.559
 So remember,

00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:10.099
 this passage

00:19:10.099 --> 00:19:11.019
 is case law.

00:19:11.339 --> 00:19:11.779
 It's giving

00:19:11.779 --> 00:19:12.700
 examples that

00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:13.259
 then the judges

00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:13.700
 of Israel

00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:14.259
 would need

00:19:14.259 --> 00:19:14.740
 to apply

00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:15.299
 to actual

00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:16.140
 situations.

00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:19.759
 So it

00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:20.300
 would seem

00:19:20.300 --> 00:19:20.720
 that in

00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:21.620
 this instance,

00:19:22.340 --> 00:19:22.720
 the Mosaic

00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:23.460
 law permits

00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:23.940
 an individual

00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:24.440
 to defend

00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:24.960
 themselves.

00:19:25.800 --> 00:19:26.500
 And that

00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:26.900
 the judges

00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:27.420
 would have

00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:28.220
 to determine

00:19:28.220 --> 00:19:29.800
 whether it

00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:30.420
 was indeed

00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:31.080
 a valid

00:19:31.080 --> 00:19:31.660
 case of

00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:32.240
 self-defense.

00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:33.100
 But notice

00:19:33.100 --> 00:19:34.440
 that this

00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:35.580
 law also

00:19:35.580 --> 00:19:36.640
 puts limits

00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:37.200
 on it as

00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:37.580
 well.

00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:39.080
 Right?

00:19:40.900 --> 00:19:41.640
 And those

00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:42.280
 limits, I

00:19:42.280 --> 00:19:42.440
 think,

00:19:42.500 --> 00:19:42.980
 serve a few

00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:43.460
 purposes.

00:19:43.460 --> 00:19:46.360
 I think

00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:46.779
 the first

00:19:46.779 --> 00:19:47.319
 purpose that

00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:47.779
 that limit

00:19:47.779 --> 00:19:48.279
 puts is

00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:49.400
 that even

00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:49.680
 in the

00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:49.960
 Mosaic

00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:50.380
 law,

00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:50.880
 God's

00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:51.340
 people were

00:19:51.340 --> 00:19:52.960
 called to

00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:53.360
 love their

00:19:53.360 --> 00:19:53.779
 neighbors as

00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:54.880
 themselves and

00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:55.340
 to refrain

00:19:55.340 --> 00:19:56.299
 from unlawful,

00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:56.900
 unjust,

00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:57.740
 and unnecessary

00:19:57.740 --> 00:19:58.460
 taking of

00:19:58.460 --> 00:19:59.120
 another human's

00:19:59.120 --> 00:19:59.440
 life.

00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:02.140
 In other

00:20:02.140 --> 00:20:02.579
 words, just

00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:03.120
 because someone

00:20:03.120 --> 00:20:03.960
 was acting in

00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:04.860
 self-defense

00:20:04.860 --> 00:20:05.860
 doesn't mean

00:20:05.860 --> 00:20:06.360
 that all bets

00:20:06.360 --> 00:20:06.799
 are off and

00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:07.400
 anything goes.

00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:10.319
 John Frame,

00:20:10.460 --> 00:20:11.259
 who's a Christian

00:20:11.259 --> 00:20:11.920
 theologian and

00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:12.440
 ethicist,

00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:13.960
 puts it this

00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:14.600
 way in his

00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:15.420
 reflection on

00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:16.080
 this passage

00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:16.460
 from Exodus

00:20:16.460 --> 00:20:16.820
 22.

00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:17.279
 He says,

00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:19.200
 the law of

00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:20.640
 love limits

00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:21.680
 our response

00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.180
 even to a

00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:23.900
 home invader.

00:20:25.600 --> 00:20:26.259
 But at the

00:20:26.259 --> 00:20:26.799
 same time,

00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:27.380
 John Frame

00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:27.660
 says,

00:20:28.360 --> 00:20:28.820
 the law of

00:20:28.820 --> 00:20:29.200
 love does

00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:29.820
 not forbid

00:20:29.820 --> 00:20:30.140
 us to

00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:31.180
 defend our

00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:31.519
 lives and

00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:32.180
 our families

00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:33.539
 by force

00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:34.380
 to the extent

00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:34.820
 that it is

00:20:34.820 --> 00:20:35.320
 necessary.

00:20:35.460 --> 00:20:35.920
 So you see,

00:20:36.100 --> 00:20:36.360
 there's a

00:20:36.360 --> 00:20:37.019
 balance there.

00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:39.880
 Okay, so

00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:40.380
 how ought we

00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:40.720
 to kind of

00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:41.500
 synthesize this

00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:42.779
 biblical material

00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:43.059
 then?

00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:45.900
 First, I do

00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:46.319
 think on the

00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:46.839
 basis of the

00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:47.299
 principles in

00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:48.140
 Exodus 22,

00:20:49.059 --> 00:20:50.079
 Christians are

00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:51.480
 permitted to

00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:52.480
 act in self-defense

00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:52.940
 in extreme

00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:53.400
 cases.

00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:55.200
 Sometimes an

00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:55.720
 act of force

00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:56.279
 may be

00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:56.960
 necessary to

00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:57.599
 protect oneself

00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:58.720
 from harm or

00:20:58.720 --> 00:20:59.279
 to protect a

00:20:59.279 --> 00:20:59.700
 loved one from

00:20:59.700 --> 00:20:59.960
 harm.

00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:03.200
 However, the

00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:03.660
 New Testament

00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:05.039
 also prevents

00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:06.680
 us from

00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:08.180
 seeing retaliatory

00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:10.099
 violence as the

00:21:10.099 --> 00:21:10.839
 immediate and

00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:11.779
 proper answer

00:21:11.779 --> 00:21:12.439
 to every

00:21:12.439 --> 00:21:12.839
 criminal

00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:13.599
 wrongdoing and

00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:14.419
 physical attack.

00:21:16.179 --> 00:21:16.980
 Listen to what

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:17.559
 Paul writes in

00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:18.139
 Romans 12,

00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:18.719
 14 through

00:21:18.719 --> 00:21:19.259
 21.

00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:22.519
 And this is

00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:23.099
 before the

00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:23.639
 passage in

00:21:23.639 --> 00:21:24.379
 Romans 13 that

00:21:24.379 --> 00:21:24.799
 we read where

00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:25.399
 he talks about

00:21:25.399 --> 00:21:26.179
 the sort of

00:21:26.179 --> 00:21:27.399
 rightful authority,

00:21:27.619 --> 00:21:27.799
 right?

00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:28.839
 Paul writes in

00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:29.359
 Romans 12,

00:21:29.439 --> 00:21:29.740
 starting in

00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:30.159
 verse 14,

00:21:30.379 --> 00:21:31.059
 bless those who

00:21:31.059 --> 00:21:31.839
 persecute you,

00:21:32.500 --> 00:21:33.019
 bless and do

00:21:33.019 --> 00:21:33.799
 not curse them,

00:21:35.019 --> 00:21:35.559
 rejoice with

00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:36.259
 those who rejoice,

00:21:36.439 --> 00:21:36.980
 weep with those

00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:37.539
 who weep,

00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:38.740
 live in harmony

00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:39.519
 with one another,

00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:41.099
 do not be haughty

00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:41.819
 but associate with

00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:42.299
 the lowly,

00:21:42.380 --> 00:21:43.299
 never be wise in

00:21:43.299 --> 00:21:44.039
 your own sight,

00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:45.759
 repay no one evil

00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:46.519
 for evil but get

00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:47.680
 thought to do what

00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:48.559
 is honorable in the

00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:49.140
 sight of all,

00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:51.039
 if possible so far

00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:51.819
 as it depends on

00:21:51.819 --> 00:21:52.740
 you live peaceably

00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:53.240
 with all,

00:21:54.099 --> 00:21:54.599
 beloved never

00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:55.500
 revenge yourselves

00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:56.160
 but leave it to

00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:57.000
 the wrath of God

00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:57.720
 for it is written

00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:58.960
 vengeance is mine,

00:21:59.420 --> 00:22:00.240
 I will repay

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.960
 says the Lord,

00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:02.120
 to the contrary

00:22:02.120 --> 00:22:03.200
 if your enemy is

00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:04.140
 hungry feed him,

00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:05.460
 if he's thirsty

00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:06.120
 give him something

00:22:06.120 --> 00:22:06.740
 to drink,

00:22:07.299 --> 00:22:08.319
 for by so doing

00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:08.839
 you will heap

00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:09.619
 burning coals

00:22:09.619 --> 00:22:10.339
 on his head

00:22:10.339 --> 00:22:10.740
 and Paul's

00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:11.159
 quoting our

00:22:11.159 --> 00:22:11.559
 proverb,

00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:13.079
 and then he

00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:13.759
 sums it up

00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:14.819
 with this,

00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:16.079
 do not be

00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:17.519
 overcome by

00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.000
 evil but

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.000
 overcome evil

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:22.319
 with good,

00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.960
 so while I

00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:26.259
 don't think

00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:26.619
 that this

00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:28.059
 passage completely

00:22:28.059 --> 00:22:29.339
 excludes self-defense

00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:30.599
 in every instance,

00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:32.480
 I do think

00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:33.579
 that it ought

00:22:33.579 --> 00:22:34.899
 to remind us

00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:36.759
 of the appropriate

00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:38.080
 posture of our

00:22:38.080 --> 00:22:39.620
 hearts towards

00:22:39.620 --> 00:22:40.440
 those who may

00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:41.200
 do us wrong,

00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:43.480
 even attack us,

00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:44.780
 right?

00:22:45.540 --> 00:22:46.740
 Let us not forget

00:22:46.740 --> 00:22:48.540
 that the New Testament

00:22:48.540 --> 00:22:49.500
 tells us again

00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:50.560
 and again that as

00:22:50.560 --> 00:22:51.980
 Christians we will

00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:52.780
 be persecuted

00:22:52.780 --> 00:22:54.200
 and some of us

00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:55.019
 will be put to

00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:56.860
 death and the

00:22:56.860 --> 00:22:58.080
 consistent response

00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:58.960
 to such violence

00:22:58.960 --> 00:22:59.640
 in the New Testament

00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:00.460
 is not,

00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:01.759
 self-defense is

00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:02.380
 permitted so be

00:23:02.380 --> 00:23:03.100
 ready to attack

00:23:03.099 --> 00:23:03.639
 them back.

00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:05.919
 What is it?

00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:08.939
 The Apostle Peter

00:23:08.939 --> 00:23:09.599
 talks about this

00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:10.159
 again and again

00:23:10.159 --> 00:23:10.639
 in his first

00:23:10.639 --> 00:23:11.339
 letter in 1 Peter

00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:12.379
 4.19 for example,

00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:12.740
 he says,

00:23:12.899 --> 00:23:13.359
 let those who

00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:14.079
 suffer according

00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:14.919
 to God's will

00:23:14.919 --> 00:23:16.359
 entrust their

00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:16.919
 souls to a

00:23:16.919 --> 00:23:17.659
 faithful creator

00:23:17.659 --> 00:23:18.240
 while doing

00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:18.699
 good.

00:23:20.899 --> 00:23:21.939
 Now contrast

00:23:21.939 --> 00:23:22.819
 that, I think,

00:23:22.879 --> 00:23:25.819
 very straightforward,

00:23:26.379 --> 00:23:27.779
 albeit very hard,

00:23:27.919 --> 00:23:28.859
 biblical position.

00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:29.619
 Contrast that

00:23:29.619 --> 00:23:30.159
 with the words

00:23:30.159 --> 00:23:30.480
 of, say,

00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:31.000
 a former

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:32.259
 Christian college

00:23:32.259 --> 00:23:32.699
 president.

00:23:33.099 --> 00:23:34.480
 In 2015,

00:23:34.699 --> 00:23:35.439
 who in response

00:23:35.439 --> 00:23:35.959
 to terrorist

00:23:35.959 --> 00:23:36.599
 activity,

00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:38.099
 spoke to the

00:23:38.099 --> 00:23:38.639
 student body

00:23:38.639 --> 00:23:39.139
 at the college

00:23:39.139 --> 00:23:39.579
 and chapel

00:23:39.579 --> 00:23:40.059
 service.

00:23:41.219 --> 00:23:41.659
 And this

00:23:41.659 --> 00:23:42.759
 particular

00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:43.599
 Christian college

00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:44.000
 president,

00:23:44.139 --> 00:23:44.839
 after implying

00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:45.439
 that he had a

00:23:45.439 --> 00:23:45.879
 gun in his

00:23:45.879 --> 00:23:46.459
 back pocket,

00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:46.859
 said,

00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:47.799
 I just want

00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:48.259
 to take this

00:23:48.259 --> 00:23:48.879
 opportunity

00:23:48.879 --> 00:23:50.179
 to encourage

00:23:50.179 --> 00:23:50.740
 all of you

00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:51.359
 to get your

00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:51.699
 permit.

00:23:52.179 --> 00:23:52.799
 We offer a

00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:53.379
 free course.

00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:54.839
 And let's

00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:55.539
 teach them a

00:23:55.539 --> 00:23:56.719
 lesson if they

00:23:56.719 --> 00:23:57.419
 ever show up

00:23:57.419 --> 00:23:57.619
 here.

00:23:57.619 --> 00:24:02.279
 Is that

00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:02.719
 the message

00:24:02.719 --> 00:24:03.000
 of the

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:03.439
 New Testament?

00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:05.779
 Let's

00:24:05.779 --> 00:24:06.179
 teach them

00:24:06.179 --> 00:24:06.539
 a lesson

00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:06.919
 if they

00:24:06.919 --> 00:24:07.419
 ever show

00:24:07.419 --> 00:24:07.819
 up here.

00:24:11.159 --> 00:24:11.639
 Consider

00:24:11.639 --> 00:24:12.179
 how that

00:24:12.179 --> 00:24:12.739
 same kind

00:24:12.739 --> 00:24:13.259
 of mindset

00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:14.000
 can trickle

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:14.539
 into other

00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:15.119
 areas of

00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:15.439
 life,

00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:16.759
 not just

00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:17.459
 to protection

00:24:17.459 --> 00:24:18.219
 against the

00:24:18.219 --> 00:24:18.819
 hypothetical

00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:19.739
 lethal threat

00:24:19.739 --> 00:24:20.039
 of a

00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:20.459
 terrorist.

00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:23.079
 A different

00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:23.360
 Christian

00:24:23.360 --> 00:24:23.920
 theologian

00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:24.579
 who advocates

00:24:24.579 --> 00:24:25.240
 very strongly

00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:26.079
 for self-defense

00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:26.440
 and gun

00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:26.819
 ownership

00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:28.340
 goes on

00:24:28.340 --> 00:24:28.680
 in his

00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:29.100
 reflections

00:24:29.100 --> 00:24:30.240
 on self-defense

00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:30.940
 to advocate

00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:32.039
 that we

00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:32.500
 teach our

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:33.019
 children to

00:24:33.019 --> 00:24:33.759
 fight back

00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:34.660
 against bullies

00:24:34.660 --> 00:24:35.140
 because,

00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:36.220
 this is a

00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:36.440
 quote,

00:24:37.180 --> 00:24:37.519
 otherwise,

00:24:38.420 --> 00:24:39.079
 the failure

00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:39.779
 to oppose

00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:40.660
 physically harmful

00:24:40.660 --> 00:24:41.480
 attacks with

00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:42.440
 physical force

00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:43.460
 will often

00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:44.440
 lead to

00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:45.100
 more harmful

00:24:45.100 --> 00:24:45.700
 attacks and

00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:46.120
 more wrong

00:24:46.120 --> 00:24:46.680
 being done.

00:24:46.940 --> 00:24:47.240
 And then he

00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:47.440
 says,

00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:49.940
 and that

00:24:49.940 --> 00:24:50.400
 Christian

00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:51.039
 children who

00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:51.559
 are not

00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:52.039
 taught to

00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:52.400
 defend

00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:52.840
 themselves

00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:53.420
 with physical

00:24:53.420 --> 00:24:54.559
 force can

00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:55.160
 often be

00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:55.980
 harmed repeatedly

00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:57.220
 and because

00:24:57.220 --> 00:24:58.180
 of that can

00:24:58.180 --> 00:24:59.259
 internalize deep

00:24:59.259 --> 00:24:59.900
 feelings of

00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:00.539
 injustice and

00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:00.980
 despair.

00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.620
 No parent

00:25:02.620 --> 00:25:03.320
 should allow

00:25:03.320 --> 00:25:03.759
 this to

00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:04.820
 happen to

00:25:04.820 --> 00:25:05.380
 his or her

00:25:05.380 --> 00:25:05.799
 children.

00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:10.559
 Okay,

00:25:10.660 --> 00:25:11.000
 so you see

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:11.360
 where we've

00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:11.720
 come now.

00:25:11.860 --> 00:25:12.600
 So no longer

00:25:12.600 --> 00:25:13.299
 are we talking

00:25:13.299 --> 00:25:14.080
 about extreme

00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:14.860
 situations of

00:25:14.860 --> 00:25:15.240
 life and

00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:15.580
 death,

00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:16.960
 but we're

00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:17.400
 teaching our

00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:17.960
 children to

00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:18.440
 fight fire

00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:19.039
 with fire on

00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:19.580
 the playground

00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:21.119
 because they

00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:21.960
 might internalize

00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:22.559
 deep feelings

00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:23.159
 of injustice

00:25:23.159 --> 00:25:24.000
 and despair.

00:25:25.699 --> 00:25:26.339
 Is that

00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:26.659
 the way

00:25:26.659 --> 00:25:27.059
 of Jesus?

00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.339
 That same

00:25:31.339 --> 00:25:31.759
 theologian

00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:32.259
 argues that

00:25:32.259 --> 00:25:32.819
 in situations

00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:33.299
 of violent

00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:33.939
 harm by

00:25:33.939 --> 00:25:34.339
 criminals,

00:25:34.679 --> 00:25:34.980
 he says,

00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:35.519
 if it's

00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:36.019
 morally right

00:25:36.019 --> 00:25:36.279
 to call

00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:36.759
 the police

00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:37.419
 who would

00:25:37.419 --> 00:25:37.960
 use firearms

00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:38.480
 to protect

00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:38.799
 us in

00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:39.579
 such circumstances,

00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:40.519
 then it

00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:40.980
 seems to me

00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:41.519
 morally right

00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:41.939
 to use a

00:25:41.939 --> 00:25:42.319
 weapon if

00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:42.799
 necessary

00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:43.799
 before the

00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:44.240
 police can

00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:44.699
 arrive.

00:25:45.819 --> 00:25:46.359
 Then he

00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:46.759
 clarifies,

00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:47.240
 not for

00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:47.679
 vengeance,

00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:48.980
 but for

00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:49.500
 self-defense.

00:25:49.579 --> 00:25:52.220
 But friends,

00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:52.720
 isn't that a

00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:53.500
 deeply problematic

00:25:53.500 --> 00:25:54.119
 line of

00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:54.460
 reasoning?

00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:55.480
 I mean,

00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:55.799
 one of the

00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:56.339
 major points

00:25:56.339 --> 00:25:56.699
 of Romans

00:25:56.699 --> 00:25:57.740
 13 and

00:25:57.740 --> 00:25:58.099
 the Mosaic

00:25:58.099 --> 00:25:59.079
 Law is

00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:00.019
 that not

00:26:00.019 --> 00:26:00.819
 every citizen

00:26:00.819 --> 00:26:01.279
 has the

00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:02.139
 right to

00:26:02.139 --> 00:26:02.539
 act in

00:26:02.539 --> 00:26:02.839
 the stead

00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:03.079
 of the

00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:03.339
 governing

00:26:03.339 --> 00:26:03.899
 authorities.

00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:05.399
 You don't

00:26:05.399 --> 00:26:05.740
 have the

00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:06.099
 right to

00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:06.439
 act in

00:26:06.439 --> 00:26:06.779
 the same

00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:07.099
 way as

00:26:07.099 --> 00:26:07.539
 the police

00:26:07.539 --> 00:26:08.059
 before the

00:26:08.059 --> 00:26:08.539
 police get

00:26:08.539 --> 00:26:08.799
 there.

00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:10.539
 Now,

00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:10.799
 again,

00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:12.259
 I'm not

00:26:12.259 --> 00:26:13.619
 saying that

00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:14.139
 Christians are

00:26:14.139 --> 00:26:15.199
 totally forbidden

00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:16.080
 to use

00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:16.960
 various forms

00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:17.840
 of self-defense

00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:18.360
 in extreme

00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:19.000
 situations,

00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:20.019
 but what I

00:26:20.019 --> 00:26:20.799
 am saying

00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.200
 is that it's

00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.140
 very easy

00:26:23.140 --> 00:26:24.120
 to slide

00:26:24.120 --> 00:26:25.580
 into worldly

00:26:25.580 --> 00:26:27.000
 and fleshly

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:27.740
 thinking when it

00:26:27.740 --> 00:26:28.259
 comes to this

00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:28.680
 question.

00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:29.900
 And suddenly,

00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:30.519
 we Christians

00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:31.220
 don't sound at

00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:32.759
 all like those

00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:33.980
 who truly believe

00:26:33.980 --> 00:26:34.580
 that God is

00:26:34.580 --> 00:26:35.420
 in control,

00:26:35.860 --> 00:26:36.480
 that vengeance

00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:37.160
 is his,

00:26:37.620 --> 00:26:38.120
 that God's

00:26:38.120 --> 00:26:38.819
 kingdom doesn't

00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:39.299
 advance through

00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:39.779
 the sword,

00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:40.500
 and that

00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:41.180
 peace and

00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:42.059
 not violence

00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:42.859
 is the way

00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:43.279
 of Christ,

00:26:43.339 --> 00:26:44.139
 actually is

00:26:44.139 --> 00:26:44.559
 the way

00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:45.279
 of courage

00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:45.920
 and wisdom,

00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.099
 and that our

00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:48.539
 weapons are

00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:49.019
 not the

00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:49.460
 weapons of

00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:50.019
 this world.

00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:54.000
 Okay,

00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:54.440
 lastly,

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:56.119
 and then we'll

00:26:56.119 --> 00:26:56.579
 pause for some

00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:56.839
 questions.

00:26:56.940 --> 00:26:57.420
 Let me say a bit

00:26:57.420 --> 00:26:57.960
 about Christians

00:26:57.960 --> 00:26:58.420
 and gun

00:26:58.420 --> 00:26:58.759
 ownership,

00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:00.619
 as if we're

00:27:00.619 --> 00:27:00.920
 not talking

00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:01.339
 about something

00:27:01.339 --> 00:27:02.180
 controversial

00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:02.599
 enough.

00:27:02.639 --> 00:27:02.980
 Let's talk

00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:03.420
 about guns.

00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:04.519
 Here we are.

00:27:05.259 --> 00:27:05.379
 You know,

00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:05.720
 some have

00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:06.000
 argued,

00:27:06.059 --> 00:27:06.180
 okay,

00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:07.079
 so some have

00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:08.420
 argued that

00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:08.899
 on the basis

00:27:08.899 --> 00:27:09.339
 of Jesus'

00:27:09.339 --> 00:27:10.000
 words in

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:10.939
 Luke 22,

00:27:11.639 --> 00:27:12.179
 Christians

00:27:12.179 --> 00:27:12.699
 should be

00:27:12.699 --> 00:27:13.599
 encouraged,

00:27:14.139 --> 00:27:14.699
 not just

00:27:14.699 --> 00:27:15.039
 permitted,

00:27:15.199 --> 00:27:16.059
 but encouraged

00:27:16.059 --> 00:27:16.699
 to own

00:27:16.699 --> 00:27:17.299
 weapons for

00:27:17.299 --> 00:27:17.939
 self-defense.

00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:20.799
 In Luke 22

00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:21.599
 verses 35

00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.159
 through 38,

00:27:22.159 --> 00:27:22.599
 you can look

00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:23.039
 that up if

00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:23.299
 you'd like,

00:27:23.379 --> 00:27:23.919
 Luke 22,

00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:24.759
 35 through

00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:25.199
 38,

00:27:25.779 --> 00:27:26.799
 Luke records

00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:27.559
 these words

00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:28.220
 of Jesus

00:27:28.220 --> 00:27:29.639
 after Jesus

00:27:29.639 --> 00:27:30.480
 shares the

00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:30.879
 Last Supper

00:27:30.879 --> 00:27:31.259
 with his

00:27:31.259 --> 00:27:31.720
 disciples.

00:27:32.699 --> 00:27:32.879
 Okay,

00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:33.359
 so Luke

00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:34.379
 22,

00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:35.799
 35 through

00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:36.159
 38,

00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:36.859
 and Jesus

00:27:36.859 --> 00:27:37.240
 said to

00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:37.459
 them,

00:27:37.460 --> 00:27:39.180
 when I

00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:39.500
 sent you

00:27:39.500 --> 00:27:39.819
 out with

00:27:39.819 --> 00:27:40.160
 no money

00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:40.620
 bag or

00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:41.340
 knapsack or

00:27:41.340 --> 00:27:41.819
 sandals,

00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:42.220
 did you

00:27:42.220 --> 00:27:42.480
 lack

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:42.940
 anything?

00:27:43.059 --> 00:27:43.319
 Jesus

00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:43.880
 is referring

00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:44.380
 here back

00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:45.039
 to their

00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:45.420
 earlier

00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:45.900
 ministry

00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:46.960
 in Galilee.

00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:47.600
 Did you

00:27:47.600 --> 00:27:47.799
 lack

00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:48.120
 anything?

00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:48.579
 They said

00:27:48.579 --> 00:27:48.900
 nothing.

00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:50.160
 He said

00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:50.400
 to them,

00:27:50.500 --> 00:27:50.980
 but now

00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:52.120
 let the

00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:52.380
 one who

00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:52.660
 has a

00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:52.860
 money

00:27:52.860 --> 00:27:53.259
 bag

00:27:53.259 --> 00:27:53.880
 take it

00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.039
 and likewise

00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:55.740
 a knapsack

00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:56.539
 and let

00:27:56.539 --> 00:27:56.900
 the one

00:27:56.900 --> 00:27:57.259
 who has

00:27:57.259 --> 00:27:57.940
 no sword

00:27:57.940 --> 00:27:58.680
 sell his

00:27:58.680 --> 00:27:58.960
 cloak

00:27:58.960 --> 00:27:59.480
 and buy

00:27:59.480 --> 00:27:59.819
 one.

00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:01.180
 For I

00:28:01.180 --> 00:28:01.559
 tell you

00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:02.059
 that scripture

00:28:02.059 --> 00:28:02.860
 must be

00:28:02.860 --> 00:28:03.579
 fulfilled in

00:28:03.579 --> 00:28:03.840
 me.

00:28:04.299 --> 00:28:04.620
 And he

00:28:04.620 --> 00:28:05.140
 was numbered

00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:05.920
 with the

00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:06.720
 transgressors

00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:07.820
 for what

00:28:07.820 --> 00:28:08.160
 is written

00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:08.700
 about me

00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:09.540
 has its

00:28:09.540 --> 00:28:09.960
 fulfillment.

00:28:10.840 --> 00:28:11.140
 And they

00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:11.300
 said,

00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:11.480
 look,

00:28:11.600 --> 00:28:11.780
 Lord,

00:28:12.360 --> 00:28:12.759
 here are

00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:13.340
 two swords.

00:28:13.820 --> 00:28:14.360
 And he

00:28:14.360 --> 00:28:14.680
 said to

00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:14.880
 them,

00:28:15.320 --> 00:28:15.560
 it's

00:28:15.560 --> 00:28:15.840
 enough.

00:28:19.560 --> 00:28:20.180
 When I

00:28:20.180 --> 00:28:20.500
 was in

00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:20.940
 seminary,

00:28:21.780 --> 00:28:22.700
 this passage

00:28:22.700 --> 00:28:23.240
 actually came

00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:23.660
 up on my

00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:24.420
 final exam

00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:24.720
 in New

00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:25.040
 Testament

00:28:25.040 --> 00:28:25.440
 one.

00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.460
 Where does

00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:27.200
 Jesus tell

00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:27.900
 his disciples

00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:28.520
 to buy

00:28:28.520 --> 00:28:29.200
 a sword?

00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:31.060
 Luke 22,

00:28:31.220 --> 00:28:31.600
 there it

00:28:31.600 --> 00:28:31.840
 is.

00:28:32.660 --> 00:28:33.000
 So the

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:33.600
 argument runs

00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:34.000
 something like

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:34.280
 this.

00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:35.500
 Jesus knew

00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:36.019
 trouble was

00:28:36.019 --> 00:28:36.879
 coming for

00:28:36.879 --> 00:28:37.519
 his disciples.

00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:40.000
 So he

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:40.619
 tells them

00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:41.460
 to buy

00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:42.220
 swords for

00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:42.899
 self-defense.

00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:44.740
 Therefore,

00:28:45.339 --> 00:28:45.700
 Christians

00:28:45.700 --> 00:28:46.940
 today should

00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:47.539
 be equipped

00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:48.139
 with the

00:28:48.139 --> 00:28:48.599
 modern-day

00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:49.240
 equivalent of

00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:49.799
 self-defense,

00:28:50.299 --> 00:28:50.680
 which is a

00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:51.000
 handgun.

00:28:54.220 --> 00:28:54.740
 Okay.

00:28:57.099 --> 00:28:57.940
 I think

00:28:57.940 --> 00:28:58.660
 John Piper's

00:28:58.660 --> 00:29:00.220
 right when

00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:00.899
 he responds

00:29:00.899 --> 00:29:01.599
 to this line

00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:01.960
 of thinking

00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:02.359
 in this

00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:02.599
 way.

00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:05.019
 John

00:29:05.019 --> 00:29:05.219
 Piper,

00:29:05.299 --> 00:29:05.480
 who's a

00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:06.399
 pastor and

00:29:06.399 --> 00:29:07.379
 theologian,

00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:08.559
 has reflected

00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:09.059
 a lot on

00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:09.259
 Jesus'

00:29:09.459 --> 00:29:10.059
 words in

00:29:10.059 --> 00:29:10.599
 the Gospels,

00:29:10.899 --> 00:29:11.259
 wrote his

00:29:11.259 --> 00:29:12.299
 PhD dissertation

00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:12.839
 on Jesus'

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:13.539
 love command,

00:29:14.419 --> 00:29:15.039
 and pastored

00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:15.339
 for many,

00:29:15.399 --> 00:29:15.740
 many years,

00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:16.279
 and lived

00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:16.639
 in the inner

00:29:16.639 --> 00:29:20.339
 city where

00:29:20.339 --> 00:29:20.819
 he pastored.

00:29:21.099 --> 00:29:21.419
 He writes

00:29:21.419 --> 00:29:21.619
 this.

00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:22.199
 He says,

00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:23.480
 I do not

00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:23.859
 think that

00:29:23.859 --> 00:29:24.519
 Jesus means

00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:24.879
 in verse

00:29:24.879 --> 00:29:26.500
 36 that

00:29:26.500 --> 00:29:27.179
 his disciples

00:29:27.179 --> 00:29:27.579
 were to

00:29:27.579 --> 00:29:29.139
 henceforth be

00:29:29.139 --> 00:29:30.019
 an armed band

00:29:30.019 --> 00:29:30.719
 of preachers

00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:31.819
 ready to

00:29:31.819 --> 00:29:32.519
 use violence

00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:33.299
 to defend

00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:33.799
 themselves

00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:34.759
 from persecution.

00:29:36.259 --> 00:29:37.220
 If that

00:29:37.220 --> 00:29:38.019
 is the

00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:38.339
 correct

00:29:38.339 --> 00:29:38.799
 interpretation

00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:39.380
 of this

00:29:39.380 --> 00:29:39.759
 text,

00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:41.240
 my question

00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:41.620
 is,

00:29:42.579 --> 00:29:43.240
 why did

00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:43.799
 none of

00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:44.420
 his disciples

00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:44.920
 in the New

00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:45.319
 Testament

00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:46.620
 ever do

00:29:46.620 --> 00:29:46.980
 that?

00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:50.819
 The probable

00:29:50.819 --> 00:29:52.039
 answer is

00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:52.460
 that Jesus

00:29:52.460 --> 00:29:53.420
 did not

00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:53.860
 mean for

00:29:53.860 --> 00:29:54.880
 them to

00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:55.339
 think in

00:29:55.339 --> 00:29:56.039
 terms of

00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:57.100
 armed defense

00:29:57.100 --> 00:29:57.880
 for the rest

00:29:57.880 --> 00:29:58.100
 of their

00:29:58.100 --> 00:29:58.500
 ministry.

00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:00.220
 Jesus'

00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:01.000
 abrupt words

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:01.339
 at the end

00:30:01.339 --> 00:30:01.519
 of the

00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:01.859
 paragraph,

00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:02.500
 when the

00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:02.839
 disciples

00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:03.259
 produced

00:30:03.259 --> 00:30:03.519
 two

00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:03.980
 swords,

00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:04.940
 were not,

00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.460
 well,

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:06.680
 you need

00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:07.039
 to get

00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:07.779
 nine more.

00:30:08.980 --> 00:30:09.799
 He said,

00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:10.140
 rather,

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:11.299
 it's enough,

00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:12.319
 or that's

00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:12.740
 plenty.

00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:15.140
 This may

00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:15.700
 well signify

00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:16.039
 that the

00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:16.839
 disciples have

00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:17.400
 given a

00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:17.900
 mistaken

00:30:17.900 --> 00:30:18.980
 literal meaning

00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:20.359
 to a

00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:21.240
 figurative

00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.299
 intention.

00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:24.420
 In other

00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:24.559
 words,

00:30:24.619 --> 00:30:24.960
 Jesus was

00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:25.180
 speaking

00:30:25.180 --> 00:30:25.720
 figuratively.

00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:27.319
 And indeed,

00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:27.720
 New Testament

00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:28.319
 scholar Daryl

00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:28.839
 Bach also

00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:29.240
 writes about

00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:29.680
 this passage.

00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:30.079
 He says,

00:30:30.500 --> 00:30:31.100
 the church's

00:30:31.100 --> 00:30:31.880
 nonviolent

00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:32.600
 response to

00:30:32.600 --> 00:30:33.140
 persecution

00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:33.559
 in the

00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:33.860
 book of

00:30:33.860 --> 00:30:35.839
 Acts shows

00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:36.360
 that the

00:30:36.360 --> 00:30:36.740
 church is

00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:37.519
 armed only

00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:38.019
 with prayer

00:30:38.019 --> 00:30:38.380
 and faith

00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:38.759
 in God.

00:30:38.860 --> 00:30:39.880
 Luke 22

00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:40.799
 36 then

00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:41.319
 sees the

00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:42.420
 sword as

00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:43.079
 a symbol

00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:43.920
 of preparation

00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:45.039
 for persecution

00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:46.539
 since Jesus'

00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:47.519
 rebuke of a

00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.380
 literal interpretation

00:30:48.380 --> 00:30:49.180
 shows that a

00:30:49.180 --> 00:30:49.559
 symbol is

00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:49.860
 meant.

00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:50.579
 In other

00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:50.799
 words,

00:30:50.860 --> 00:30:51.360
 it points

00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:52.640
 to readiness

00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:54.299
 not to

00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:54.720
 revenge.

00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:57.980
 Okay,

00:30:58.220 --> 00:30:59.339
 so if

00:30:59.339 --> 00:30:59.940
 Jesus isn't

00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:00.620
 literally telling

00:31:00.620 --> 00:31:01.140
 his disciples

00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:01.600
 to arm

00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:02.279
 themselves in

00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:02.900
 this passage,

00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:04.380
 does that

00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:04.960
 mean Christians

00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:05.740
 should not

00:31:05.740 --> 00:31:06.579
 own guns?

00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:07.059
 Should

00:31:07.059 --> 00:31:07.799
 Christians not

00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:08.500
 have conceal

00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:08.900
 and carry

00:31:08.900 --> 00:31:09.400
 licenses?

00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:11.819
 Well,

00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:13.160
 just because

00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:13.660
 that's not

00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:14.019
 what this

00:31:14.019 --> 00:31:14.480
 passage is

00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:14.799
 about,

00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:16.019
 I don't

00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:16.539
 think that

00:31:16.539 --> 00:31:16.900
 means that

00:31:16.900 --> 00:31:17.160
 Christians

00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.519
 should not

00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:20.019
 own guns.

00:31:20.620 --> 00:31:20.759
 Right?

00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:22.099
 Ultimately,

00:31:22.379 --> 00:31:22.839
 I do

00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:23.500
 think this

00:31:23.500 --> 00:31:23.819
 is a

00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:24.359
 matter of

00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:24.859
 conscience

00:31:24.859 --> 00:31:26.119
 for Christians.

00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:26.940
 I genuinely

00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:27.279
 do.

00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:28.759
 I know

00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:29.119
 faithful

00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:29.519
 Christian

00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:30.019
 brothers and

00:31:30.019 --> 00:31:30.779
 sisters who

00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:31.400
 have conceal

00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:31.680
 and carry

00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:32.119
 licenses,

00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:33.559
 and I'm

00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:33.940
 not going

00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:34.440
 to rebuke

00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:34.700
 them,

00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:35.539
 and the

00:31:35.539 --> 00:31:35.839
 elders are

00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:36.140
 not going

00:31:36.140 --> 00:31:36.339
 to bring

00:31:36.339 --> 00:31:36.579
 them under

00:31:36.579 --> 00:31:36.779
 church

00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:37.200
 discipline.

00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:39.359
 In fact,

00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:40.599
 I think we

00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:40.920
 should be

00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:41.980
 more concerned

00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:43.299
 about our

00:31:43.299 --> 00:31:44.220
 attitudes and

00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:45.019
 our hearts

00:31:45.019 --> 00:31:45.740
 when it

00:31:45.740 --> 00:31:46.299
 comes to

00:31:46.299 --> 00:31:46.900
 these things.

00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:48.660
 In other

00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:49.039
 words,

00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:50.759
 whatever our

00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:51.440
 decision is,

00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:53.440
 are we

00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.159
 promoting a

00:31:54.159 --> 00:31:54.899
 cavalier

00:31:54.899 --> 00:31:56.000
 approach to

00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.480
 violence?

00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:58.519
 Are we

00:31:58.519 --> 00:31:59.019
 promoting a

00:31:59.019 --> 00:31:59.579
 culture where

00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:00.559
 guns are

00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.079
 the supposed

00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:02.480
 answer to

00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:03.059
 bring peace?

00:32:04.059 --> 00:32:04.799
 Is our

00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:05.180
 hope for

00:32:05.180 --> 00:32:05.779
 security and

00:32:05.779 --> 00:32:06.279
 safety in a

00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:06.440
 gun?

00:32:07.659 --> 00:32:08.420
 Are we

00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:09.480
 falling into

00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:10.200
 a mindset

00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:10.799
 that says

00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:11.379
 let's teach

00:32:11.379 --> 00:32:11.759
 them a

00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:12.259
 lesson if

00:32:12.259 --> 00:32:12.659
 they ever

00:32:12.659 --> 00:32:13.099
 show up

00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:13.359
 here?

00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:15.839
 Now,

00:32:15.899 --> 00:32:16.019
 look,

00:32:16.059 --> 00:32:16.440
 I'm not

00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:16.960
 saying that

00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:17.319
 owning a

00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:17.420
 gun

00:32:17.420 --> 00:32:18.079
 automatically

00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:18.539
 leads to

00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:18.700
 that

00:32:18.700 --> 00:32:19.019
 mindset.

00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:19.619
 Right?

00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:20.899
 In fact,

00:32:20.980 --> 00:32:21.339
 the Christians

00:32:21.339 --> 00:32:21.799
 I know

00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:22.440
 who have

00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:22.899
 conceal and

00:32:22.899 --> 00:32:23.379
 carry lysis

00:32:23.379 --> 00:32:24.379
 don't have

00:32:24.379 --> 00:32:24.819
 that mindset

00:32:24.819 --> 00:32:25.299
 as far as

00:32:25.299 --> 00:32:25.619
 I know.

00:32:26.399 --> 00:32:26.700
 But we

00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:27.159
 have to be

00:32:27.159 --> 00:32:28.139
 very careful

00:32:28.139 --> 00:32:29.039
 that we

00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:29.460
 are not

00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:29.759
 at the

00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:30.500
 same time

00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:31.779
 giving way

00:32:31.779 --> 00:32:32.819
 to these

00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:33.480
 anti-Christian

00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:34.259
 attitudes and

00:32:34.259 --> 00:32:34.680
 beliefs.

00:32:36.139 --> 00:32:36.859
 The question

00:32:36.859 --> 00:32:37.159
 of gun

00:32:37.159 --> 00:32:37.480
 ownership

00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:38.200
 for self-defense

00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:39.099
 I think

00:32:39.099 --> 00:32:40.079
 kind of sits

00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:40.859
 between two

00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:41.420
 theological

00:32:41.420 --> 00:32:41.920
 poles.

00:32:43.299 --> 00:32:43.940
 On the

00:32:43.940 --> 00:32:44.339
 one hand,

00:32:44.420 --> 00:32:44.819
 there is

00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:45.680
 very real

00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:46.339
 evil in

00:32:46.339 --> 00:32:46.839
 the world.

00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:47.960
 There is

00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:48.420
 violence

00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:49.019
 and there

00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:49.140
 is

00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:49.720
 wickedness

00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:50.519
 and Christians

00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:51.180
 are called

00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:51.700
 to protect

00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:52.240
 the vulnerable.

00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:54.720
 But on the

00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:55.259
 other hand,

00:32:55.320 --> 00:32:55.900
 we also have

00:32:55.900 --> 00:32:56.460
 to balance

00:32:56.460 --> 00:32:56.860
 that with

00:32:56.860 --> 00:32:57.180
 the sort

00:32:57.180 --> 00:32:57.779
 of culture

00:32:57.779 --> 00:32:58.120
 that we

00:32:58.120 --> 00:32:58.400
 want to

00:32:58.400 --> 00:32:58.779
 promote

00:32:58.779 --> 00:32:59.480
 and create.

00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:01.240
 Is the

00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:01.800
 proliferation

00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:02.539
 of guns

00:33:02.539 --> 00:33:03.839
 and other

00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:04.559
 instruments of

00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:05.639
 death the

00:33:05.639 --> 00:33:05.980
 sort of

00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:06.599
 society we

00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:06.879
 want to

00:33:06.879 --> 00:33:07.159
 build?

00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:09.500
 Is

00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:09.980
 promoting

00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:10.919
 the answering

00:33:10.919 --> 00:33:11.559
 of violence

00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:12.099
 with violence

00:33:12.099 --> 00:33:12.839
 the path

00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:14.119
 toward the

00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:14.460
 sort of

00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:14.859
 culture

00:33:14.859 --> 00:33:16.059
 that honors

00:33:16.059 --> 00:33:16.419
 the Lord

00:33:16.419 --> 00:33:17.119
 Jesus Christ?

00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:19.500
 And I think

00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:20.079
 both of those

00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:20.460
 poles are

00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:21.659
 real and I

00:33:21.659 --> 00:33:22.019
 don't think

00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:22.259
 there are

00:33:22.259 --> 00:33:22.960
 easy answers.

00:33:24.339 --> 00:33:24.819
 Personally,

00:33:25.059 --> 00:33:25.799
 I don't own

00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:26.220
 a gun for

00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:26.759
 self-defense.

00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:27.879
 I don't

00:33:27.879 --> 00:33:28.359
 ever intend

00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:28.700
 to get

00:33:28.700 --> 00:33:28.980
 one.

00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:30.940
 But I also

00:33:30.940 --> 00:33:31.960
 respect Christians

00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:32.460
 who've chosen

00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:33.200
 differently than

00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:33.420
 me.

00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:34.839
 And as a

00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:35.019
 church,

00:33:35.099 --> 00:33:35.500
 we want to

00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:36.160
 have hearty

00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:36.680
 conversations

00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:37.180
 about these

00:33:37.180 --> 00:33:38.420
 things and

00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:38.859
 still love

00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:39.240
 each other

00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:39.500
 if we

00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:39.839
 disagree.

00:33:41.539 --> 00:33:41.819
 Okay,

00:33:41.879 --> 00:33:42.019
 all right,

00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:42.460
 let's stop

00:33:42.460 --> 00:33:42.900
 there and

00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:43.319
 let's open

00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:43.940
 it up for

00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:44.339
 questions.

00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:46.559
 What

00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:47.079
 questions do

00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:47.460
 you have on

00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:49.000
 this thorny

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:49.319
 topic?

00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:50.980
 Yeah,

00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:51.439
 go ahead,

00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:51.579
 Brent.

00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:53.319


00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:54.079
 this. Yeah.

00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:56.419
 Ezekiel 33, 11

00:33:56.419 --> 00:33:58.159
 stated in, as I live,

00:33:58.159 --> 00:34:00.139
 I have no

00:34:00.139 --> 00:34:01.379
 pleasure in the death of the wicked.

00:34:01.539 --> 00:34:03.899
 The wicked turn to his way and live.

00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:06.139
 Turn back and back

00:34:06.139 --> 00:34:07.019
 to evil ways.

00:34:07.460 --> 00:34:11.759
 I serve on military.

00:34:13.900 --> 00:34:15.719
 I think

00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:18.059
 there's a place for

00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:20.079
 defense. There's not

00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:21.039
 a place for gloat.

00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:21.519
 Yeah.

00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.320
 No taking pleasure

00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:23.840
 to death.

00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:26.420
 If God doesn't take pleasure

00:34:26.420 --> 00:34:26.800
 to death,

00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:28.300
 nor should I.

00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:28.759
 Yeah.

00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:31.900
 That's well said, Brent.

00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:33.460
 Yeah. I'm just going to repeat that

00:34:33.460 --> 00:34:34.440
 so it ends up on the recording.

00:34:35.019 --> 00:34:37.440
 In Ezekiel, there's a very clear

00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:38.380
 passage where God says,

00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:40.420
 I don't delight in the death of the wicked.

00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:41.699
 And if that's true of our Lord,

00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:42.659
 neither should we.

00:34:43.340 --> 00:34:44.159
 Yeah, that's right.

00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:45.980
 Even if there's an appropriate time

00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:46.500
 for defense.

00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:47.659
 That's right. Thanks, Brent.

00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:47.980
 Yeah.

00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:49.179
 Yeah, Susan.

00:34:49.179 --> 00:34:50.159
 I think you could make that.

00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:51.679
 I wrote some stuff for

00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:53.879
 training in martial arts

00:34:53.879 --> 00:34:54.980
 where you have

00:34:54.980 --> 00:34:56.500
 the ability to

00:34:56.500 --> 00:34:58.219
 dishonor or screen someone.

00:34:58.319 --> 00:34:58.960
 Yeah, that's right.

00:34:59.279 --> 00:34:59.599
 That's right.

00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:00.719
 Yeah, and you know that,

00:35:01.839 --> 00:35:02.659
 so I went to a,

00:35:03.359 --> 00:35:04.619
 the undergraduate college

00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:05.179
 that I went to

00:35:05.179 --> 00:35:07.159
 was out of the Anabaptist tradition.

00:35:07.279 --> 00:35:08.119
 So it was a peace tradition.

00:35:08.819 --> 00:35:09.219
 So,

00:35:09.339 --> 00:35:11.119
 this was kind of a question

00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:11.859
 we talked about a lot.

00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:12.719
 And what's interesting

00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:13.799
 is that in the peace tradition,

00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:14.920
 it's,

00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:16.280
 the response to

00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:17.599
 the kind of imminent threat

00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:18.559
 is not,

00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:20.099
 well, you just end up,

00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:21.860
 you just end up,

00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:22.840
 you just end up dead,

00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:23.360
 right?

00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:24.639
 But it's actually,

00:35:25.099 --> 00:35:25.340
 okay,

00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:27.360
 how do we creatively engage here,

00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:28.820
 courageously engage?

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:31.079
 And sometimes that does

00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:33.340
 require some kind of restraint,

00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:33.780
 right?

00:35:34.200 --> 00:35:34.440
 You know,

00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:34.619
 now,

00:35:34.860 --> 00:35:36.260
 I don't think our Mennonite

00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:36.760
 brothers and sisters

00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:37.559
 are taking Taekwondo.

00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:40.239
 But I think you're making

00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:41.159
 a good point, Susan.

00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:42.880
 There's other ways to respond

00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:44.960
 that are not lethal,

00:35:45.139 --> 00:35:45.559
 right?

00:35:45.619 --> 00:35:46.739
 If you're trained to.

00:35:46.900 --> 00:35:47.440
 If you're trained,

00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:48.059
 yeah, exactly,

00:35:48.219 --> 00:35:48.639
 exactly.

00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:49.639
 Yeah, that's right.

00:35:49.759 --> 00:35:49.900
 That's right.

00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:50.119
 Ivor,

00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:50.960
 did you want to jump in?

00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:51.179
 Go ahead.

00:35:51.299 --> 00:35:52.460
 There's been several churches

00:35:52.460 --> 00:35:54.380
 that have been attacked.

00:35:54.860 --> 00:35:55.139
 Yeah.

00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:55.639
 Yeah.

00:35:55.639 --> 00:35:56.079
 Yeah.

00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.219
 And several were saved

00:35:58.219 --> 00:36:01.360
 by a member having

00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:03.340
 a concealed weapon

00:36:03.340 --> 00:36:05.779
 that saved lives.

00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:06.440
 Yeah.

00:36:07.179 --> 00:36:07.420
 Yeah.

00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.719
 Is that appropriate?

00:36:09.279 --> 00:36:10.480
 That's a really good question.

00:36:10.539 --> 00:36:11.440
 We've talked about this

00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:12.599
 some as leadership,

00:36:13.059 --> 00:36:13.259
 right?

00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:14.320
 So Ivor's saying

00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:15.239
 there have been,

00:36:15.259 --> 00:36:15.719
 you know,

00:36:15.779 --> 00:36:16.719
 instances where churches

00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:17.360
 have been attacked

00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:18.500
 and someone with a

00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:19.880
 conceal and carry license

00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:21.139
 was actually able to

00:36:21.139 --> 00:36:22.699
 sort of kill that person

00:36:22.699 --> 00:36:24.179
 and then presumably

00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:25.000
 save more lives.

00:36:25.179 --> 00:36:26.039
 We've actually talked

00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:26.940
 to local law enforcement

00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:27.799
 about this question

00:36:27.799 --> 00:36:29.759
 and what they've actually

00:36:29.759 --> 00:36:31.480
 strongly recommended to us

00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:33.639
 is that we do not

00:36:33.639 --> 00:36:34.940
 encourage people

00:36:34.940 --> 00:36:36.380
 with conceal and carry licenses

00:36:36.380 --> 00:36:37.179
 to try to

00:36:37.179 --> 00:36:38.779
 respond in those situations

00:36:38.779 --> 00:36:39.539
 of mass shooting.

00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:40.639
 And they said that

00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:41.819
 for a couple of reasons.

00:36:42.619 --> 00:36:43.299
 One is

00:36:43.299 --> 00:36:45.799
 most people,

00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:47.639
 even with conceal and carry licenses

00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:48.440
 with the appropriate

00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:49.500
 training and licensing

00:36:49.500 --> 00:36:50.480
 and practice

00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:51.539
 that it takes to get that

00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:53.539
 are actually not equipped

00:36:53.539 --> 00:36:55.379
 to respond in moments

00:36:55.379 --> 00:36:58.079
 of that kind of high intensity

00:36:58.079 --> 00:36:59.460
 with lots of other

00:36:59.460 --> 00:37:00.519
 civilians around.

00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:03.619
 That their sense was

00:37:03.619 --> 00:37:04.799
 is that more often than not,

00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:05.880
 more innocent people

00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:06.519
 will be hurt

00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:07.460
 than less.

00:37:08.660 --> 00:37:09.100
 Second,

00:37:09.680 --> 00:37:10.680
 when the police

00:37:10.680 --> 00:37:11.980
 do show up,

00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:14.340
 which by the way,

00:37:14.420 --> 00:37:15.200
 we have a system

00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:15.640
 at Trinity

00:37:15.640 --> 00:37:16.760
 to call the police

00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:17.460
 very, very quickly

00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:20.280
 if anything happens,

00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:21.120
 if we need that,

00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:22.840
 that when they do show up,

00:37:23.060 --> 00:37:24.160
 they actually don't know

00:37:24.160 --> 00:37:25.340
 who's the bad guy

00:37:25.340 --> 00:37:26.180
 and who's the good guy,

00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:27.160
 so to say.

00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.239
 What they recommended

00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:31.339
 we do is

00:37:31.339 --> 00:37:32.779
 grab something

00:37:32.779 --> 00:37:33.480
 really heavy

00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:35.500
 like the fire extinguisher

00:37:35.500 --> 00:37:37.019
 and swing as hard

00:37:37.019 --> 00:37:37.460
 as you can.

00:37:40.259 --> 00:37:40.779
 So,

00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:42.480
 use physical force

00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:43.719
 but don't

00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.259
 have an untrained

00:37:45.259 --> 00:37:46.079
 individual pull

00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:46.839
 another gun

00:37:46.839 --> 00:37:47.599
 in that situation

00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:48.799
 and cause more

00:37:48.799 --> 00:37:49.739
 chaos and mayhem.

00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:50.460
 Now,

00:37:50.500 --> 00:37:51.399
 that's very different

00:37:51.399 --> 00:37:52.159
 than if there's someone

00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:52.639
 in the church

00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:53.420
 who's a trained

00:37:53.420 --> 00:37:54.440
 law enforcement officer

00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:55.339
 or a trained member

00:37:55.339 --> 00:37:55.940
 of the military.

00:37:55.940 --> 00:37:57.539
 They have the kind

00:37:57.539 --> 00:37:57.980
 of training

00:37:57.980 --> 00:37:59.179
 to respond appropriately

00:37:59.179 --> 00:38:00.480
 in those situations.

00:38:02.200 --> 00:38:02.260
 So,

00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:03.220
 but thank you for that,

00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:03.360
 Ivor.

00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:03.579
 Yeah,

00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:04.480
 this is what makes it

00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:05.300
 a complicated issue,

00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:05.659
 right?

00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:06.220
 Yeah.

00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:06.599
 Yeah,

00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:06.960
 Giovanni.

00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:07.559
 Yeah,

00:38:07.659 --> 00:38:07.900
 so,

00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.260
 I do agree

00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:09.960
 that this is

00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:12.179
 a conscious decision

00:38:12.179 --> 00:38:13.139
 with each one of us

00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:13.780
 as Christians

00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:16.159
 but I wonder

00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:17.220
 how do we

00:38:17.220 --> 00:38:18.599
 balance the attention

00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:19.220
 between like

00:38:19.220 --> 00:38:20.340
 the individual

00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:21.360
 and the collective

00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.019
 problem

00:38:23.019 --> 00:38:24.119
 with these.

00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:24.579
 Yeah,

00:38:24.579 --> 00:38:24.639
 yeah.

00:38:24.700 --> 00:38:25.000
 So,

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:26.579
 yeah,

00:38:26.860 --> 00:38:28.099
 I agree

00:38:28.099 --> 00:38:28.960
 in theory

00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:30.679
 that Christians

00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:31.719
 are allowed

00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:32.940
 to have guns

00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:34.260
 but should we

00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:35.079
 be like

00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:35.760
 advocating

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:36.260
 for

00:38:36.260 --> 00:38:38.260
 proliferation

00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:38.840
 of guns

00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:39.559
 because

00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:40.679
 like the data

00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:41.880
 shows

00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:42.980
 kind of

00:38:42.980 --> 00:38:44.139
 very clearly

00:38:44.139 --> 00:38:45.460
 that that's a problem

00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:46.500
 that creates

00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:47.440
 more violence

00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:48.539
 on average

00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:50.239
 and more mortality

00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:50.920
 on average.

00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:51.280
 So,

00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:52.720
 how do we deal

00:38:52.720 --> 00:38:53.160
 with like

00:38:53.160 --> 00:38:53.540
 our

00:38:53.540 --> 00:38:55.160
 individual

00:38:55.160 --> 00:38:55.860
 freedom

00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:56.740
 and the collective

00:38:56.740 --> 00:38:57.380
 quality?

00:38:57.540 --> 00:38:58.000
 I agree,

00:38:58.080 --> 00:38:58.260
 Giovanni,

00:38:58.320 --> 00:38:59.320
 and this is a bit

00:38:59.320 --> 00:38:59.800
 of what I was trying

00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:00.160
 to get at

00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:00.640
 by thinking

00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:01.200
 about that poll

00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:01.440
 of like

00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:01.740
 what kind

00:39:01.740 --> 00:39:02.120
 of culture

00:39:02.120 --> 00:39:02.519
 do we want

00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:03.000
 to create

00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:03.960
 as Christians,

00:39:04.080 --> 00:39:04.240
 right?

00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:05.519
 Because we are

00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:06.500
 as Christians

00:39:06.500 --> 00:39:07.360
 and as churches

00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:08.740
 creating the culture

00:39:08.740 --> 00:39:09.440
 we live in,

00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:09.700
 right?

00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:10.500
 As humans,

00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:11.300
 God created us

00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:11.960
 to be culture

00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:12.320
 makers.

00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:12.920
 We can't

00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:13.739
 not do that.

00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:14.239
 So,

00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:14.800
 the actions

00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:15.559
 that we make

00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:16.519
 aren't just

00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:17.340
 for our own selves

00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:18.019
 but they do

00:39:18.019 --> 00:39:19.039
 have broader impact.

00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:19.599
 So,

00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:20.059
 I think we have

00:39:20.059 --> 00:39:20.440
 to weigh that

00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:21.199
 very seriously.

00:39:21.860 --> 00:39:21.960
 Now,

00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:22.360
 I'll speak

00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:22.880
 off the record.

00:39:23.019 --> 00:39:23.780
 I'm not speaking

00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:24.260
 on behalf

00:39:24.260 --> 00:39:24.599
 of the elders.

00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:25.159
 I'm just speaking

00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:26.159
 on me personally.

00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:28.159
 I think

00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:28.880
 that there are

00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:29.659
 certain kind

00:39:29.659 --> 00:39:30.139
 of guns

00:39:30.139 --> 00:39:31.480
 that a civilian

00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:32.019
 can buy

00:39:32.019 --> 00:39:32.780
 in the United States

00:39:32.780 --> 00:39:33.260
 that they should

00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:33.760
 not be able

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:34.219
 to purchase.

00:39:35.860 --> 00:39:36.699
 I think

00:39:36.699 --> 00:39:38.139
 any kind

00:39:38.139 --> 00:39:38.760
 of assault

00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:39.760
 style weapon

00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:40.820
 should not

00:39:40.820 --> 00:39:41.360
 be allowed

00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:41.820
 to be owned

00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:42.400
 by a civilian

00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:43.320
 because they

00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:43.920
 can cause

00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:44.820
 massive amounts

00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:45.320
 of death

00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:46.160
 in a very

00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:46.660
 short amount

00:39:46.660 --> 00:39:47.020
 of time.

00:39:47.900 --> 00:39:48.800
 And I just

00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:49.140
 don't think

00:39:49.140 --> 00:39:49.740
 that's appropriate.

00:39:51.620 --> 00:39:52.400
 I do think

00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:52.960
 that's different

00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.480
 than a handgun

00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:56.320
 for self-defense.

00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:57.060
 You know?

00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:58.900
 It's much harder

00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:00.080
 to kill

00:40:00.080 --> 00:40:01.620
 dozens and dozens

00:40:01.620 --> 00:40:01.800
 of,

00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:02.620
 I know that I'm

00:40:02.620 --> 00:40:03.220
 speaking very

00:40:03.220 --> 00:40:04.340
 bluntly about this.

00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:05.420
 It's a very serious

00:40:05.420 --> 00:40:06.100
 and sad issue

00:40:06.100 --> 00:40:07.480
 but it's very hard

00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:08.440
 to use that kind

00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:08.940
 of instrument

00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:09.580
 of death

00:40:09.579 --> 00:40:10.460
 to kill

00:40:10.460 --> 00:40:11.319
 massive amounts

00:40:11.319 --> 00:40:11.679
 of people

00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:12.059
 than it is

00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:12.420
 some of these

00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:13.440
 other weapons

00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:14.500
 that in our

00:40:14.500 --> 00:40:15.579
 American culture

00:40:15.579 --> 00:40:18.199
 one can purchase

00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:20.000
 seemingly pretty easily

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:20.900
 compared to other

00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:21.559
 parts of the world.

00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:22.900
 So,

00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:26.619
 I think the issue

00:40:26.619 --> 00:40:27.319
 of gun control

00:40:27.319 --> 00:40:28.000
 in the United States

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:29.319
 is a very important one

00:40:29.319 --> 00:40:32.400
 and I think

00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.139
 Christians need to

00:40:33.139 --> 00:40:34.619
 yes,

00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:36.440
 respect the

00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:37.219
 Constitution

00:40:37.219 --> 00:40:37.960
 that talks about

00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:38.739
 a right to bear arms

00:40:38.739 --> 00:40:39.879
 but we also have to

00:40:39.879 --> 00:40:42.119
 consider the fact

00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:43.659
 that our technological

00:40:43.659 --> 00:40:44.799
 advances mean

00:40:44.799 --> 00:40:45.559
 that the arms

00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:46.539
 that we can bear

00:40:46.539 --> 00:40:47.619
 can create

00:40:47.619 --> 00:40:48.759
 massive amounts

00:40:48.759 --> 00:40:49.179
 of death

00:40:49.179 --> 00:40:49.699
 and mayhem

00:40:49.699 --> 00:40:51.979
 in ways that

00:40:51.979 --> 00:40:52.719
 that probably

00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:53.799
 wasn't possible

00:40:53.799 --> 00:40:55.299
 in the 18th century

00:40:55.299 --> 00:40:56.759
 when the framers

00:40:56.759 --> 00:40:57.419
 of our Constitution

00:40:57.419 --> 00:40:58.259
 put it together.

00:40:58.899 --> 00:40:59.979
 One could not

00:40:59.979 --> 00:41:02.239
 do the mass

00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:02.899
 kind of shootings

00:41:02.899 --> 00:41:03.979
 that we are

00:41:03.979 --> 00:41:05.159
 so tragically hearing

00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:05.960
 about way too

00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:06.719
 regularly in our

00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:07.059
 culture

00:41:07.059 --> 00:41:08.759
 with a single

00:41:08.759 --> 00:41:09.659
 shot musket

00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:10.039
 rifle.

00:41:12.139 --> 00:41:12.980
 Yeah, Alex.

00:41:12.980 --> 00:41:14.519
 Do you think

00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:15.260
 it's the case

00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:16.380
 that this particular

00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:17.320
 issue is kind of

00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.400
 like a marriage

00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:20.119
 of Christians?

00:41:20.380 --> 00:41:21.240
 It might be.

00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:21.980
 Yeah.

00:41:22.539 --> 00:41:23.079
 Do you think

00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:23.740
 in any way

00:41:23.740 --> 00:41:24.500
 that sort of

00:41:24.500 --> 00:41:25.340
 shapes

00:41:25.340 --> 00:41:26.340
 just the way

00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:27.159
 Christians sort of

00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:28.139
 have these conversations

00:41:28.139 --> 00:41:29.760
 giving us

00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:30.260
 a little bit

00:41:30.260 --> 00:41:31.420
 less of a perspective

00:41:31.420 --> 00:41:32.579
 or kind of like

00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:33.360
 maybe our

00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.659
 sometimes eyes

00:41:34.659 --> 00:41:35.400
 are visions

00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:36.360
 a little bit blurry?

00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:36.720
 Yeah.

00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:38.740
 Oh, I'm sure it does.

00:41:39.180 --> 00:41:40.099
 I'm sure it does.

00:41:40.340 --> 00:41:41.240
 So Alex was saying

00:41:41.240 --> 00:41:41.519
 that

00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:44.920
 doesn't our location

00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:45.480
 in America

00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:46.460
 with a certain culture

00:41:46.460 --> 00:41:47.360
 around firearms

00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:48.019
 and self-defense

00:41:48.019 --> 00:41:48.720
 doesn't that shape

00:41:48.720 --> 00:41:49.360
 how we as Christians

00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:49.980
 approach this issue?

00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.059
 I'm sure it does.

00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:52.280
 I'm sure it does.

00:41:52.340 --> 00:41:52.980
 Which is why

00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:54.579
 Giovanni mentioning

00:41:54.579 --> 00:41:55.900
 hey, in other cultures

00:41:55.900 --> 00:41:56.539
 maybe there isn't

00:41:56.539 --> 00:41:57.440
 the same sort of problem

00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:58.039
 that we're having.

00:41:58.180 --> 00:41:58.980
 I think as Christians

00:41:58.980 --> 00:41:59.640
 and as a church

00:41:59.640 --> 00:42:00.980
 we need to listen to that

00:42:00.980 --> 00:42:02.900
 and we need not be

00:42:02.900 --> 00:42:03.720
 so tied

00:42:03.720 --> 00:42:04.900
 to our

00:42:04.900 --> 00:42:06.619
 citizenship

00:42:06.619 --> 00:42:08.099
 in the United States

00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:09.559
 that that overrides

00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:10.119
 our citizenship

00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:10.760
 in heaven

00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:12.139
 and our citizenship

00:42:12.139 --> 00:42:13.440
 in heaven

00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:14.480
 is the thing

00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:15.059
 that's determining

00:42:15.059 --> 00:42:15.639
 how we live

00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:16.099
 as citizens

00:42:16.099 --> 00:42:16.619
 of this world.

00:42:16.740 --> 00:42:18.000
 So, you know

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.500
 Alex, I'm very well

00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:19.960
 to be challenged

00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:20.320
 and be like

00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:20.820
 brother

00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:22.019
 if you lived

00:42:22.019 --> 00:42:22.740
 in a different country

00:42:22.740 --> 00:42:23.480
 you would come down

00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:24.220
 in a very different

00:42:24.220 --> 00:42:24.960
 place on this.

00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.820
 I might actually

00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:26.900
 and I think

00:42:26.900 --> 00:42:27.760
 we need the church.

00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:28.960
 In the very first class

00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:29.500
 we talked about

00:42:29.500 --> 00:42:30.280
 how we need

00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:30.880
 to be having

00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:31.980
 these ethical conversations

00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:33.760
 with the historic church

00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:34.880
 and the global church.

00:42:34.900 --> 00:42:36.079
 to be coming

00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:36.820
 to good conclusions.

00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:37.320
 So I think this is

00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:38.039
 a great example of that.

00:42:38.099 --> 00:42:38.380
 Thank you.

00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:38.579
 Yeah.

00:42:38.619 --> 00:42:40.380
 I really appreciate that

00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:40.920
 because I think

00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:41.619
 our culture

00:42:41.619 --> 00:42:42.920
 encourages

00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:44.220
 not just

00:42:44.220 --> 00:42:45.599
 the violence

00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:46.960
 but generally

00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:47.559
 the thing.

00:42:48.380 --> 00:42:49.099
 So this morning

00:42:49.099 --> 00:42:50.200
 I was trying to deliver

00:42:50.200 --> 00:42:51.880
 three commercials

00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:53.099
 for law officers

00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:54.300
 that can get me more.

00:42:55.099 --> 00:42:55.900
 If somebody

00:42:55.900 --> 00:42:56.780
 makes a mistake

00:42:56.780 --> 00:42:57.860
 and hits my car

00:42:57.860 --> 00:42:59.900
 I can get more

00:42:59.900 --> 00:43:00.960
 if I go to them.

00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:01.740
 If you're hurt

00:43:01.740 --> 00:43:02.539
 get burnt, right?

00:43:02.539 --> 00:43:03.259
 Yeah.

00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:04.380
 It's just

00:43:04.380 --> 00:43:05.579
 as someone

00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:07.159
 who's old enough

00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:07.719
 to have lived

00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:08.599
 before this

00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:09.639
 highly detentious

00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:10.480
 period of time

00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:12.000
 I'm

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.460
 we are just

00:43:13.460 --> 00:43:14.440
 playing

00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:15.559
 with

00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:17.019
 don't just

00:43:17.019 --> 00:43:17.719
 get that

00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:18.059
 get that

00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:18.219
 Yeah.

00:43:19.219 --> 00:43:19.840
 How counterculture

00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:20.699
 is it that Paul says

00:43:20.699 --> 00:43:22.000
 why not rather

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:22.699
 be defrauded?

00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:25.279
 Could you imagine?

00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:27.779
 It's almost laughable

00:43:27.779 --> 00:43:28.179
 you know

00:43:28.179 --> 00:43:29.119
 we took a family

00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:29.960
 road trip this summer

00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:30.740
 and you know

00:43:30.740 --> 00:43:31.500
 we get so used

00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:33.159
 to the lawyer billboards

00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:33.780
 around us

00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:34.340
 you know

00:43:34.340 --> 00:43:35.559
 we could all

00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:36.460
 rattle them all off

00:43:36.460 --> 00:43:37.460
 but it's true

00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:38.400
 everywhere in the United States

00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:39.599
 we were in the deep south

00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:40.220
 and it's like

00:43:40.220 --> 00:43:41.539
 we knew every single

00:43:41.539 --> 00:43:42.760
 lawyer we could hire

00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:43.199
 down there

00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:43.780
 if anyone

00:43:43.780 --> 00:43:44.920
 so much has got

00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:45.559
 close to us

00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:46.240
 we had their numbers

00:43:46.240 --> 00:43:47.099
 blasting at us

00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:47.400
 Yeah.

00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:48.099
 Every number one

00:43:48.099 --> 00:43:48.900
 is okay

00:43:48.900 --> 00:43:50.000
 to go after

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:50.599
 your danger

00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:51.500
 Sure.

00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:52.139
 Sure.

00:43:52.139 --> 00:43:52.139


00:43:52.139 --> 00:43:53.860
 if you can't

00:43:53.860 --> 00:43:55.000
 afford to fix your car

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:55.740
 the other person

00:43:55.740 --> 00:43:56.280
 Sure.

00:43:56.599 --> 00:43:56.980
 Sure.

00:43:56.980 --> 00:44:00.679
 Yeah.

00:44:01.099 --> 00:44:01.320
 Yeah.

00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:02.179
 Zerian

00:44:02.179 --> 00:44:02.980
 did you want to jump in?

00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:03.559
 Oh

00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:05.260
 I know that

00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:05.699
 you don't

00:44:05.699 --> 00:44:06.340
 personally

00:44:06.340 --> 00:44:07.199
 own a gun

00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.539
 but like

00:44:08.539 --> 00:44:10.519
 why do you think

00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:11.079
 a Christian

00:44:11.079 --> 00:44:11.539
 wouldn't

00:44:11.539 --> 00:44:12.500
 purchase

00:44:12.500 --> 00:44:13.360
 or own a gun

00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:13.860
 Yeah.

00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:14.619
 What would be

00:44:14.619 --> 00:44:15.400
 the reason for that?

00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:16.740
 I'm not going to

00:44:16.740 --> 00:44:17.340
 turn this out

00:44:17.340 --> 00:44:17.659
 to the audience

00:44:17.659 --> 00:44:17.880
 and say

00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:18.860
 who here owns a gun

00:44:18.860 --> 00:44:19.699
 tell us why

00:44:19.699 --> 00:44:22.420
 I think

00:44:22.420 --> 00:44:23.380
 to try to be

00:44:23.380 --> 00:44:23.740
 as charitable

00:44:23.740 --> 00:44:24.300
 as possible

00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:25.599
 I think it would be

00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:26.380
 the rationale

00:44:26.380 --> 00:44:26.840
 would go something

00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:27.320
 like this

00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:28.300
 we live in a

00:44:28.300 --> 00:44:30.440
 deeply fallen world

00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:31.700
 where there's real

00:44:31.700 --> 00:44:33.000
 evil and wickedness

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.119
 and

00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:35.220
 if

00:44:35.220 --> 00:44:36.559
 I'm in a situation

00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:37.559
 where

00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:38.800
 someone

00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:40.300
 is taking

00:44:40.300 --> 00:44:41.559
 criminal advantage

00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:42.059
 of someone

00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:42.760
 who's vulnerable

00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:44.460
 this is a way

00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:46.000
 to neutralize that

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:47.180
 right

00:44:47.180 --> 00:44:48.380
 immediately

00:44:48.380 --> 00:44:49.400
 and stop harm

00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:49.880
 being done

00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:50.720
 right

00:44:50.720 --> 00:44:51.640
 there are ways

00:44:51.640 --> 00:44:51.900
 of

00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:52.579
 you know

00:44:52.579 --> 00:44:54.539
 I think

00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:55.599
 that's the rationale

00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:56.539
 right

00:44:56.539 --> 00:44:58.239
 so it's

00:44:58.239 --> 00:44:58.800
 sort of

00:44:58.800 --> 00:44:59.320
 acknowledging

00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:00.199
 the wickedness

00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:00.719
 in the world

00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:01.460
 right

00:45:01.460 --> 00:45:02.199
 which will be there

00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:03.480
 until Jesus returns

00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:04.000
 right

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:05.179
 and as a means

00:45:05.179 --> 00:45:05.820
 of trying to say

00:45:05.820 --> 00:45:06.320
 and yet

00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.320
 if a responsible

00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:09.300
 use of this instrument

00:45:09.300 --> 00:45:10.159
 can prevent that

00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:10.599
 from happening

00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:11.579
 in extreme situations

00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:12.820
 then that's what

00:45:12.820 --> 00:45:13.279
 I want to do

00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:13.740
 yeah

00:45:13.740 --> 00:45:14.240
 yeah Peter

00:45:14.240 --> 00:45:16.280
 to more clarify

00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:17.019
 what I think

00:45:17.019 --> 00:45:17.860
 what you're saying

00:45:17.860 --> 00:45:19.720
 it's more about

00:45:19.720 --> 00:45:21.480
 the necessity

00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:22.740
 to protect others

00:45:22.740 --> 00:45:24.080
 as opposed to

00:45:24.080 --> 00:45:25.140
 protecting yourself

00:45:25.140 --> 00:45:25.800
 necessarily

00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.280
 I think for some

00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:27.860
 it could be

00:45:27.860 --> 00:45:28.140
 I

00:45:28.140 --> 00:45:29.700
 my sense is that

00:45:29.700 --> 00:45:29.900
 it's

00:45:29.900 --> 00:45:30.540
 from

00:45:30.540 --> 00:45:31.640
 people I know

00:45:31.640 --> 00:45:32.440
 or from conversations

00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:33.460
 I've heard about this

00:45:33.460 --> 00:45:33.860
 I think it's

00:45:33.860 --> 00:45:35.040
 I think it is both

00:45:35.040 --> 00:45:35.720
 you know

00:45:35.720 --> 00:45:36.660
 I think

00:45:36.660 --> 00:45:37.660
 some of it is both

00:45:37.659 --> 00:45:38.980
 that you know

00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:40.199
 if someone's attacking me

00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:40.699
 like

00:45:40.699 --> 00:45:42.339
 I have a right

00:45:42.339 --> 00:45:43.339
 to be able to

00:45:43.339 --> 00:45:44.099
 prevent that

00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:44.739
 right

00:45:44.739 --> 00:45:45.379
 so

00:45:45.379 --> 00:45:46.579
 yeah

00:45:46.579 --> 00:45:48.199
 it's not

00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:49.159
 about Ephesians

00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:50.019
 chapter 6

00:45:50.019 --> 00:45:51.339
 when Paul says

00:45:51.339 --> 00:45:51.699
 that

00:45:51.699 --> 00:45:53.019
 our

00:45:53.019 --> 00:45:54.019
 we wrestle against

00:45:54.019 --> 00:45:54.839
 not against

00:45:54.839 --> 00:45:55.299
 questions

00:45:55.299 --> 00:45:55.679
 right

00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:57.159
 and at the end

00:45:57.159 --> 00:45:57.480
 of that

00:45:57.480 --> 00:45:58.119
 passage

00:45:58.119 --> 00:45:59.500
 after saying

00:45:59.500 --> 00:46:00.179
 put on the whole

00:46:00.179 --> 00:46:01.099
 armor of God

00:46:01.099 --> 00:46:02.500
 prayer

00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:03.159
 yeah

00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:03.719
 that's right

00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:04.299
 that's right

00:46:04.299 --> 00:46:06.139
 I try to remind myself

00:46:06.139 --> 00:46:06.519
 that

00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:07.639
 with all the stuff

00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:08.299
 that I see happening

00:46:08.299 --> 00:46:08.819
 in the world

00:46:08.819 --> 00:46:09.659
 all of the

00:46:09.659 --> 00:46:10.900
 advances

00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:11.719
 that our enemies

00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:12.259
 are making

00:46:12.259 --> 00:46:13.119
 around the world

00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:14.519
 that

00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.000
 for the believer

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:17.099
 the most powerful

00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:17.879
 weapon of the path

00:46:17.879 --> 00:46:18.420
 is prayer

00:46:18.420 --> 00:46:18.679
 yeah

00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:19.079
 that's right

00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:19.920
 yeah

00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.279
 praying against that

00:46:21.279 --> 00:46:21.719
 yeah

00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:22.799
 well and make most

00:46:22.799 --> 00:46:23.980
 make no mistake

00:46:23.980 --> 00:46:25.079
 the

00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:26.500
 the kingdom of God

00:46:26.500 --> 00:46:27.539
 does not advance

00:46:27.539 --> 00:46:28.480
 through the weapons

00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:29.039
 of this world

00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:30.460
 right

00:46:30.460 --> 00:46:31.199
 so

00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:31.920
 so

00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:35.339
 as much as it may be

00:46:35.339 --> 00:46:35.759
 a

00:46:35.759 --> 00:46:37.139
 temporary

00:46:37.139 --> 00:46:38.779
 emergency

00:46:38.779 --> 00:46:40.279
 sort of thing

00:46:40.279 --> 00:46:40.940
 to think about

00:46:40.940 --> 00:46:41.279
 owning it

00:46:41.279 --> 00:46:41.519
 and here

00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:41.819
 I'm

00:46:41.819 --> 00:46:44.019
 I don't want to

00:46:44.019 --> 00:46:44.699
 sit here and defend

00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:45.219
 gun ownership

00:46:45.219 --> 00:46:45.739
 to you all

00:46:45.739 --> 00:46:48.139
 but I do think

00:46:48.139 --> 00:46:48.799
 the important thing

00:46:48.799 --> 00:46:49.239
 to realize

00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:49.940
 is that we need

00:46:49.940 --> 00:46:50.619
 to be very

00:46:50.619 --> 00:46:51.239
 careful

00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:52.460
 that we don't

00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:53.500
 slip into a

00:46:53.500 --> 00:46:53.819
 mindset

00:46:53.819 --> 00:46:54.579
 where we think

00:46:54.579 --> 00:46:54.940
 that

00:46:54.940 --> 00:46:56.199
 the tools

00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:56.699
 and the weapons

00:46:56.699 --> 00:46:57.279
 of this world

00:46:57.279 --> 00:46:58.079
 is what's really

00:46:58.079 --> 00:46:58.759
 going to bring

00:46:58.759 --> 00:46:59.739
 peace and justice

00:46:59.739 --> 00:47:00.440
 and righteousness

00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:00.799
 right

00:47:00.799 --> 00:47:01.559
 if Jesus

00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:02.420
 thought that

00:47:02.420 --> 00:47:03.559
 he would

00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:04.200
 have not

00:47:04.200 --> 00:47:04.840
 gone to a

00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:05.340
 cross

00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:05.720
 and been

00:47:05.720 --> 00:47:06.139
 crucified

00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:06.579
 by the

00:47:06.579 --> 00:47:07.139
 Roman Empire

00:47:07.139 --> 00:47:07.900
 he would

00:47:07.900 --> 00:47:08.159
 have done

00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:08.500
 what so

00:47:08.500 --> 00:47:08.940
 many people

00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:09.460
 wanted him

00:47:09.460 --> 00:47:09.860
 to do

00:47:09.860 --> 00:47:10.619
 which was

00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:11.099
 raise an

00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:11.340
 army

00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:11.940
 and fight

00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:13.200
 and yet

00:47:13.200 --> 00:47:13.860
 from the

00:47:13.860 --> 00:47:14.720
 very first

00:47:14.720 --> 00:47:15.099
 that has

00:47:15.099 --> 00:47:15.920
 never been

00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:16.400
 the church's

00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:16.800
 response

00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:17.280
 and when the

00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:17.880
 church has

00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:18.340
 responded

00:47:18.340 --> 00:47:18.840
 that way

00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:19.599
 they have

00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:20.420
 been wrong

00:47:20.420 --> 00:47:21.220
 and it

00:47:21.220 --> 00:47:21.700
 has led

00:47:21.700 --> 00:47:21.980
 to

00:47:21.980 --> 00:47:23.159
 incredible

00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:24.840
 heartache

00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:25.639
 and tragedy

00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:26.240
 and it

00:47:26.240 --> 00:47:26.639
 has actually

00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:27.340
 besmirched

00:47:27.340 --> 00:47:27.820
 the gospel

00:47:27.820 --> 00:47:28.180
 and set

00:47:28.180 --> 00:47:28.740
 back the

00:47:28.740 --> 00:47:29.119
 kingdom of

00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:29.279
 God

00:47:29.279 --> 00:47:29.619
 and not

00:47:29.619 --> 00:47:30.059
 advanced

00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:30.299
 it

00:47:30.299 --> 00:47:31.440
 so

00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:32.019
 and I

00:47:32.019 --> 00:47:32.380
 think of

00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:32.599
 course

00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:33.119
 you know

00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:33.719
 to be

00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:34.000
 charitable

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:34.440
 to those

00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:35.059
 who do

00:47:35.059 --> 00:47:35.239
 have

00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:35.659
 conceal and

00:47:35.659 --> 00:47:35.839
 carry

00:47:35.839 --> 00:47:36.299
 licenses

00:47:36.299 --> 00:47:37.179
 I think

00:47:37.179 --> 00:47:37.460
 they could

00:47:37.460 --> 00:47:37.599
 say

00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:38.159
 absolutely

00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:38.639
 I agree

00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:38.900
 with that

00:47:38.900 --> 00:47:39.659
 100%

00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:40.559
 like me

00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:40.900
 owning

00:47:40.900 --> 00:47:41.420
 this thing

00:47:41.420 --> 00:47:41.900
 is for a

00:47:41.900 --> 00:47:42.460
 very

00:47:42.460 --> 00:47:43.319
 narrow

00:47:43.319 --> 00:47:44.299
 thing

00:47:44.299 --> 00:47:45.139
 that the

00:47:45.139 --> 00:47:45.380
 Bible

00:47:45.380 --> 00:47:45.920
 does in

00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:46.239
 extreme

00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:46.819
 circumstances

00:47:46.819 --> 00:47:47.219
 permit

00:47:47.219 --> 00:47:47.739
 but I

00:47:47.739 --> 00:47:48.319
 don't think

00:47:48.319 --> 00:47:48.599
 that we

00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:48.839
 should

00:47:48.839 --> 00:47:50.679
 fire up

00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:51.099
 you know

00:47:51.099 --> 00:47:51.739
 a crusade

00:47:51.739 --> 00:47:52.400
 2.0

00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:53.139
 to conquer

00:47:53.139 --> 00:47:53.859
 lands with

00:47:53.859 --> 00:47:54.199
 swords

00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:54.699
 and think

00:47:54.699 --> 00:47:55.099
 that that's

00:47:55.099 --> 00:47:55.400
 going to

00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:55.719
 somehow

00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:56.659
 spread the

00:47:56.659 --> 00:47:57.039
 gospel

00:47:57.039 --> 00:47:57.659
 you know

00:47:57.659 --> 00:47:58.139
 sword point

00:47:58.139 --> 00:47:58.579
 conversions

00:47:58.579 --> 00:47:58.980
 are not

00:47:58.980 --> 00:47:59.460
 conversions

00:47:59.460 --> 00:48:00.760
 yeah

00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:01.400
 okay

00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:02.059
 maybe one

00:48:02.059 --> 00:48:02.260
 more

00:48:02.260 --> 00:48:02.539
 and then

00:48:02.539 --> 00:48:03.019
 we'll have

00:48:03.019 --> 00:48:03.380
 to break

00:48:03.380 --> 00:48:03.599
 yeah

00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:03.900
 go ahead

00:48:03.900 --> 00:48:05.780
 yeah

00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:06.559
 yeah

00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:10.639
 yeah

00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:11.280
 yeah

00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:11.480
 yeah

00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:11.679
 yeah

00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:12.880
 as far

00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:13.300
 as

00:48:13.300 --> 00:48:13.920
 a

00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:14.900
 candidate's

00:48:14.900 --> 00:48:15.599
 stance

00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:16.199
 on gun

00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:16.659
 control

00:48:16.659 --> 00:48:17.420
 is that

00:48:17.420 --> 00:48:17.639
 right

00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:20.719
 yeah

00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:23.000
 absolutely

00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:23.500
 yeah

00:48:23.500 --> 00:48:23.699
 yeah

00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:24.880
 well I

00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:25.119
 think

00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:25.579
 as we

00:48:25.579 --> 00:48:25.940
 as we

00:48:25.940 --> 00:48:26.240
 move

00:48:26.240 --> 00:48:26.619
 from these

00:48:26.619 --> 00:48:26.880
 moral

00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:27.380
 positions

00:48:27.380 --> 00:48:28.440
 into

00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:28.440


00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:28.820
 the

00:48:28.820 --> 00:48:29.039
 sphere

00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:29.220
 of

00:48:29.220 --> 00:48:29.880
 policy

00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:30.220
 and

00:48:30.220 --> 00:48:30.420
 into

00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:30.619
 the

00:48:30.619 --> 00:48:30.940
 sphere

00:48:30.940 --> 00:48:31.280
 of

00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:31.760
 voting

00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:31.980
 for

00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:32.380
 political

00:48:32.380 --> 00:48:33.119
 candidates

00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:33.900
 you know

00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:34.079
 as

00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:34.360
 Christians

00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:34.760
 we move

00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:35.400
 progressively

00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:36.019
 in the

00:48:36.019 --> 00:48:36.220
 realm

00:48:36.220 --> 00:48:36.400
 of

00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:36.700
 wisdom

00:48:36.700 --> 00:48:37.539
 right

00:48:37.539 --> 00:48:38.360
 so

00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:39.000
 and I

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:39.160
 think

00:48:39.160 --> 00:48:39.460
 as we

00:48:39.460 --> 00:48:39.720
 move

00:48:39.720 --> 00:48:40.200
 out

00:48:40.200 --> 00:48:40.660
 from

00:48:40.660 --> 00:48:41.140
 sort

00:48:41.140 --> 00:48:41.220
 of

00:48:41.220 --> 00:48:41.340
 the

00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:41.740
 principle

00:48:41.740 --> 00:48:41.980
 to

00:48:41.980 --> 00:48:42.119
 the

00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:42.579
 policy

00:48:42.579 --> 00:48:42.880
 to

00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:43.039
 then

00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:43.180
 the

00:48:43.180 --> 00:48:43.640
 politician

00:48:43.640 --> 00:48:43.880
 that

00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:44.000
 we

00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:44.300
 vote

00:48:44.300 --> 00:48:44.640
 for

00:48:44.640 --> 00:48:45.440
 I

00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:45.660
 think

00:48:45.660 --> 00:48:45.900
 what's

00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:46.340
 important

00:48:46.340 --> 00:48:46.660
 to

00:48:46.660 --> 00:48:47.039
 say

00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:47.500
 is

00:48:47.500 --> 00:48:48.240
 that

00:48:48.240 --> 00:48:48.700
 different

00:48:48.700 --> 00:48:49.000
 Christians

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:49.360
 are going

00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:49.579
 to weigh

00:48:49.579 --> 00:48:49.980
 those things

00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:50.380
 differently

00:48:50.380 --> 00:48:51.099
 right

00:48:51.099 --> 00:48:51.759
 I

00:48:51.759 --> 00:48:51.940
 think

00:48:51.940 --> 00:48:52.179
 living

00:48:52.179 --> 00:48:52.400
 in

00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:52.799
 Connecticut

00:48:52.799 --> 00:48:53.179
 given

00:48:53.179 --> 00:48:53.360
 what

00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:53.699
 happened

00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:53.839
 at

00:48:53.839 --> 00:48:53.980
 say

00:48:53.980 --> 00:48:54.299
 Sandy

00:48:54.299 --> 00:48:54.639
 Hook

00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:55.219
 it

00:48:55.219 --> 00:48:55.380
 would

00:48:55.380 --> 00:48:55.539
 be

00:48:55.539 --> 00:48:56.339
 completely

00:48:56.339 --> 00:48:57.179
 understandable

00:48:57.179 --> 00:48:57.779
 if

00:48:57.779 --> 00:48:58.079
 many

00:48:58.079 --> 00:48:58.299
 many

00:48:58.299 --> 00:48:58.519
 many

00:48:58.519 --> 00:48:58.719
 many

00:48:58.719 --> 00:48:59.079
 Christians

00:48:59.079 --> 00:48:59.299
 in

00:48:59.299 --> 00:48:59.579
 our

00:48:59.579 --> 00:49:00.139
 part

00:49:00.139 --> 00:49:00.219
 of

00:49:00.219 --> 00:49:00.339
 the

00:49:00.339 --> 00:49:00.699
 country

00:49:00.699 --> 00:49:01.480
 weighed

00:49:01.480 --> 00:49:01.739
 gun

00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:02.059
 control

00:49:02.059 --> 00:49:02.539
 very

00:49:02.539 --> 00:49:02.980
 highly

00:49:02.980 --> 00:49:03.360
 when we

00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:03.539
 went

00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:03.639
 to

00:49:03.639 --> 00:49:03.779
 the

00:49:03.779 --> 00:49:04.019
 polls

00:49:04.019 --> 00:49:04.819
 right

00:49:04.819 --> 00:49:05.739
 maybe

00:49:05.739 --> 00:49:06.219
 even

00:49:06.219 --> 00:49:07.279
 outweighing

00:49:07.279 --> 00:49:07.980
 some

00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:08.699
 other

00:49:08.699 --> 00:49:09.739
 Christian

00:49:09.739 --> 00:49:10.219
 moral

00:49:10.219 --> 00:49:10.739
 principles

00:49:10.739 --> 00:49:11.239
 right

00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:12.779
 and I

00:49:12.779 --> 00:49:13.279
 think

00:49:13.279 --> 00:49:14.000
 as

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:14.599
 Christians

00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:15.279
 when we're

00:49:15.279 --> 00:49:15.739
 in that

00:49:15.739 --> 00:49:16.119
 realm of

00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:16.699
 politics

00:49:16.699 --> 00:49:16.920
 and who

00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:17.219
 to vote

00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:17.480
 for

00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:18.240
 we are

00:49:18.240 --> 00:49:18.780
 all

00:49:18.780 --> 00:49:19.360
 making

00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:20.240
 a

00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:20.659
 least

00:49:20.659 --> 00:49:21.019
 bad

00:49:21.019 --> 00:49:21.460
 choice

00:49:21.460 --> 00:49:22.420
 right

00:49:22.420 --> 00:49:23.059
 because

00:49:23.059 --> 00:49:23.400
 no

00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:23.719
 candidate

00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:24.000
 is going

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:24.119
 to

00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:24.480
 perfectly

00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:24.960
 represent

00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:25.260
 how

00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:25.599
 we

00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:25.820
 weigh

00:49:25.820 --> 00:49:26.039
 those

00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:26.400
 issues

00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:27.039
 right

00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:27.880
 or

00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:28.300
 certainly

00:49:28.300 --> 00:49:28.519
 how

00:49:28.519 --> 00:49:28.980
 scripture

00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:29.280
 weighs

00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:29.480
 those

00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:29.820
 issues

00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:30.760
 so

00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:31.199
 I

00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:31.360
 think

00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:31.480
 we

00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:31.659
 have

00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:31.760
 to

00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:31.900
 give

00:49:31.900 --> 00:49:32.039
 each

00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:32.199
 other

00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:32.340
 a

00:49:32.340 --> 00:49:32.440
 lot

00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:32.559
 of

00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:32.800
 freedom

00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:33.400
 right

00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:33.880
 we

00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:34.019
 should

00:49:34.019 --> 00:49:34.240
 never

00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:34.500
 sort

00:49:34.500 --> 00:49:34.639
 of

00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:35.360
 say

00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:35.679
 if

00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:35.940
 you

00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:36.240
 vote

00:49:36.240 --> 00:49:36.420
 for

00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:36.780
 candidate

00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:37.480
 X

00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:37.960
 right

00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:38.360
 you're

00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:39.119
 clearly

00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:39.699
 wrong

00:49:39.699 --> 00:49:40.699
 right

00:49:40.699 --> 00:49:41.199
 I

00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:41.420
 think

00:49:41.420 --> 00:49:41.619
 that's

00:49:41.619 --> 00:49:41.800
 a

00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:42.119
 very

00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:42.480
 hard

00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:42.820
 statement

00:49:42.820 --> 00:49:43.059
 to

00:49:43.059 --> 00:49:43.380
 make

00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:44.079
 given

00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:44.320
 that

00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:44.460
 there

00:49:44.460 --> 00:49:44.599
 are

00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:45.079
 so

00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:45.339
 many

00:49:45.339 --> 00:49:45.759
 factors

00:49:45.759 --> 00:49:45.960
 that

00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:46.039
 are

00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:46.219
 being

00:49:46.219 --> 00:49:46.500
 weighed

00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:46.799
 out

00:49:46.799 --> 00:49:47.400
 as

00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:47.559
 we

00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:47.739
 vote

00:49:47.739 --> 00:49:47.860
 for

00:49:47.860 --> 00:49:47.980
 a

00:49:47.980 --> 00:49:48.259
 particular

00:49:48.259 --> 00:49:48.679
 candidate

00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:49.559
 so

00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:50.440
 I

00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:50.779
 can't

00:49:50.779 --> 00:49:51.019
 say

00:49:51.019 --> 00:49:51.279
 how

00:49:51.279 --> 00:49:51.599
 heavily

00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:51.839
 one

00:49:51.839 --> 00:49:52.000
 should

00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:52.199
 weigh

00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:52.199


00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:52.900
 Honestly

00:49:52.900 --> 00:49:53.500
 I

00:49:53.500 --> 00:49:53.860
 really

00:49:53.860 --> 00:49:54.880
 can't

00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:55.559
 but

00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:55.699
 I

00:49:55.699 --> 00:49:55.880
 think

00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:56.519
 as

00:49:56.519 --> 00:49:56.659
 an

00:49:56.659 --> 00:49:56.960
 individual

00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:57.339
 Christian

00:49:57.339 --> 00:49:57.559
 if

00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:57.679
 it's

00:49:57.679 --> 00:49:57.860
 something

00:49:57.860 --> 00:49:58.059
 that

00:49:58.059 --> 00:49:58.199
 that

00:49:58.199 --> 00:49:58.460
 person

00:49:58.460 --> 00:49:58.839
 weighs

00:49:58.839 --> 00:49:59.239
 highly

00:49:59.239 --> 00:49:59.500
 I

00:49:59.500 --> 00:49:59.759
 think

00:49:59.759 --> 00:49:59.980
 that's

00:49:59.980 --> 00:50:00.380
 valid

00:50:00.380 --> 00:50:01.360
 right

00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:02.119
 yeah

00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:02.920
 okay

00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:03.139
 we do

00:50:03.139 --> 00:50:03.219
 have

00:50:03.219 --> 00:50:03.299
 to

00:50:03.299 --> 00:50:03.440
 break

00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:03.599
 because

00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:03.719
 it's

00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:03.880
 five

00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:04.019
 of

00:50:04.019 --> 00:50:04.699
 let

00:50:04.699 --> 00:50:04.759
 me

00:50:04.759 --> 00:50:04.880
 say

00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:04.960
 a

00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:05.099
 quick

00:50:05.099 --> 00:50:05.380
 prayer

00:50:05.380 --> 00:50:05.860
 and

00:50:05.860 --> 00:50:06.000
 we'll

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:06.179
 go

00:50:06.179 --> 00:50:07.099
 Father

00:50:07.099 --> 00:50:07.259
 in

00:50:07.259 --> 00:50:07.400
 heaven

00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:07.700
 thank you

00:50:07.700 --> 00:50:08.300
 so much

00:50:08.300 --> 00:50:09.559
 for your

00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:09.960
 love

00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:10.900
 for your

00:50:10.900 --> 00:50:11.400
 care for

00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:11.660
 us

00:50:11.660 --> 00:50:12.019
 for your

00:50:12.019 --> 00:50:12.420
 protection

00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:13.099
 over us

00:50:13.099 --> 00:50:14.260
 God help

00:50:14.260 --> 00:50:14.700
 us to

00:50:14.700 --> 00:50:14.960
 be a

00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:15.340
 people

00:50:15.340 --> 00:50:16.079
 who

00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:16.760
 live

00:50:16.760 --> 00:50:17.099
 into

00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:17.260
 the

00:50:17.260 --> 00:50:17.460
 way

00:50:17.460 --> 00:50:17.619
 of

00:50:17.619 --> 00:50:17.960
 Jesus

00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:19.519
 where

00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:21.380
 you

00:50:21.380 --> 00:50:21.920
 God

00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:23.500
 remove

00:50:23.500 --> 00:50:23.760
 the

00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:24.320
 spirit

00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:24.639
 of

00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:25.099
 vengeance

00:50:25.099 --> 00:50:25.519
 and

00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:26.420
 retaliation

00:50:26.420 --> 00:50:26.800
 and

00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:27.220
 hatred

00:50:27.220 --> 00:50:27.539
 from

00:50:27.539 --> 00:50:27.740
 our

00:50:27.740 --> 00:50:28.200
 hearts

00:50:28.200 --> 00:50:29.639
 Lord

00:50:29.639 --> 00:50:30.079
 help us

00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:30.280
 to

00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:30.980
 love

00:50:30.980 --> 00:50:31.860
 even

00:50:31.860 --> 00:50:32.179
 those

00:50:32.179 --> 00:50:32.320
 who

00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:32.480
 are

00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:33.000
 enemies

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:33.820
 because

00:50:33.820 --> 00:50:34.119
 you

00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:34.300
 have

00:50:34.300 --> 00:50:34.539
 loved

00:50:34.539 --> 00:50:34.960
 us

00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:35.159
 when

00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:35.360
 we

00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:35.500
 were

00:50:35.500 --> 00:50:35.659
 your

00:50:35.659 --> 00:50:36.039
 enemies

00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:36.420
 and

00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:36.599
 you've

00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:36.820
 made

00:50:36.820 --> 00:50:36.960
 us

00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:37.119
 your

00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:37.500
 friends

00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:38.480
 God help

00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:38.699
 us to

00:50:38.699 --> 00:50:39.000
 have that

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:39.440
 deep

00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:39.900
 hope

00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:40.159
 in the

00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:40.559
 gospel

00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:41.679
 we pray

00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:42.000
 this in

00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:42.500
 Jesus name

00:50:42.500 --> 00:50:42.820
 amen