WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.299 Let's pray. Father in heaven, we thank you for this warm and well-lit space that we can meet in 00:00:06.299 --> 00:00:13.620 on this day, our Lord's day, the day of his resurrection. Father, especially today as we 00:00:13.620 --> 00:00:22.620 think of the incarnation of your son, and in particular, how he was fully God in our midst. 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:29.859 Jesus, as we think of how you took on flesh for us, and how we see in the testimony to your 00:00:29.859 --> 00:00:37.939 earthly life, the evidence of your deity, we pray for the help of your spirit to understand these 00:00:37.939 --> 00:00:44.159 things. We think of Peter's words when he said, you are the Christ, the son of the living God, and you 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:50.219 said back to him that flesh and blood had not revealed this to him. So we acknowledge this 00:00:50.219 --> 00:00:57.460 morning that we need your help, Father, Son, and Spirit, to know you. But we also thank you that in 00:00:57.460 --> 00:01:03.460 your grace, you have promised to do just that, to make yourself known in your son and by your spirit 00:01:03.460 --> 00:01:08.180 through your word. So it's with that assurance and that confidence that we gather this morning, 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:14.079 knowing that you are speaking and revealing God full of grace, and that in your son you have come 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:20.599 with grace upon grace. So it's to him we look this morning, and it's his face we ask to see. 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:28.359 We pray in his mighty name, amen. All right, so class two, we're in class two of our course on the 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:35.099 incarnation. Last week, you'll remember we kind of took a whistle-stop tour through the gospels, 00:01:35.159 --> 00:01:42.259 looking at Jesus's full humanity. And today, we're going to look at the other side of the coin, 00:01:42.340 --> 00:01:47.340 as it were. We're going to look at Jesus's full divinity, that he is fully God. 00:01:47.340 --> 00:01:56.079 I want to start maybe in an odd place, just to sort of frame our conversation. 00:01:58.340 --> 00:02:04.260 One of the classic kind of books on comparative religion, at least in the West, 00:02:04.460 --> 00:02:08.900 is a book by a guy named Houston Smith. He wrote a book called The World Religions. 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:15.680 Interesting book. Not perfect, but good. And it's interesting, in his chapter on Buddhism, 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:21.580 he starts the whole chapter on Buddhism saying this. He says, 00:02:22.819 --> 00:02:32.980 he says, how many people have provoked this question? Not who are you, with respect to name, 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:43.540 origin, or ancestry, but what are you? What order of being do you belong to? What species do you 00:02:43.539 --> 00:02:55.060 represent? Not Caesar, certainly. Not Napoleon, or even Socrates. Only two. So only two people, 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.180 Houston Smith says, in the history of humanity, have ever provoked the question, not just who are you, 00:03:00.219 --> 00:03:08.359 but what are you? And he says, Jesus and Buddha. They're the only two. And he goes on and says this, 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:13.120 when people carried their puzzlement to the Buddha himself, the answer he gave provided an identity 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:22.660 for his entire message. Are you a god, they asked? No. An angel? No. A saint? No. Then what are you? 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:31.980 Buddha answered, I'm awake. I'm awake. What a great answer. You have to respect that answer, right? I mean, 00:03:31.979 --> 00:03:38.679 come on, that's a really cool answer. But isn't it interesting that the Buddha, given the quality 00:03:38.679 --> 00:03:42.899 of life that he lived, provokes this question, not just who are you, but what are you? But when people 00:03:42.899 --> 00:03:46.759 come to him and say, are you a god? Are you an angel? Are you a saint? He says, no, no, no, no, no. 00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:53.419 I'm awake. I found a path to enlightenment, and I'm here to kind of teach you a path to enlightenment, 00:03:53.699 --> 00:03:58.560 right? Now, that has an interesting background to what we're going to talk about this morning, 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:04.280 which is the person of Jesus Christ. When people came to Jesus and asked that question, 00:04:05.219 --> 00:04:11.719 what did Jesus say? Did he say, no, no, no, no, no? I've just come to teach you a path? 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:17.379 Or was his answer quite different? Spoiler alert, it was very different. 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:24.300 And we're going to look at, last week, I realized I didn't use my time very well. We filled up the 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:27.120 time with too much. So today, I want to take a little bit of a different tack, 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:36.000 and just look at a couple choice passages that give us a window into Jesus's own understanding 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:43.540 of who he was. Now, of course, when you read the Gospels, you realize that Jesus is testified as 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:50.360 doing things that are quite amazing, right? I love this one section of the Gospel of Mark. It actually 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:59.120 starts at the end of Mark 4 and into Mark 5, where Jesus comes and he calms a storm, right? Showing 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:06.379 that he has authority over nature. And then they land on the shore of Gerasa, and he meets a demon-possessed 00:05:06.379 --> 00:05:11.660 man, and he casts the demons out of the man, showing that Jesus doesn't just have authority over 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:16.120 the material creation, but also the spiritual creation, over the supernatural, right? The natural 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:21.600 and the supernatural. And then the next scene, he goes and he heals a woman who's dealt with a 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:25.980 bleeding issue for years and years and years, showing that he has authority over our physical 00:05:25.980 --> 00:05:30.280 sickness and our condition. And then, do you remember what happens at the end of this kind of series of 00:05:30.280 --> 00:05:36.579 stories? What's the last miracle that Jesus does there? Do you remember? Bible quiz time. He raises 00:05:36.579 --> 00:05:42.019 Jairus' daughter. That's right. Jairus' daughter has died, and Jesus goes in and says, little girl, 00:05:42.019 --> 00:05:49.939 get up. And she wakes up from death, proving that Jesus even has authority over death itself. So you see in 00:05:49.939 --> 00:05:56.539 the gospel records, just constant testimony to Jesus's mighty works, which starts to provoke this 00:05:56.539 --> 00:06:01.759 question, who are you? Remember what they say when he calms the wind and the waves? Who is this that even the 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:08.079 wind and the waves obey him, right? We've never seen anything like this, was the things that they start to say. 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:13.099 But who does Jesus understand himself to be? So let's look at a few passages that might give us a 00:06:13.099 --> 00:06:19.099 window into that. The first one that I want us to look at, and if you have a Bible on your phone, 00:06:19.180 --> 00:06:24.759 you can turn there. I think, do we have some Bible? Beth, do we have any Bibles in the back? Maybe in the 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:34.939 cabinet? Well, anyway, if you've got a Bible app or something, you can just turn. Let's start with Mark 00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:49.560 chapter 2. Mark chapter 2. Oh, thanks, Beth. Does anybody need a Bible? Mark 2. I'll read this for us. 00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:54.759 It says, now again, he's been kind of doing, at this point in Mark's gospel, even into the first 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:58.399 chapter, he's been healing and teaching with authority, and people are saying, what is this? 00:06:58.420 --> 00:07:01.980 He's teaching with authority. We've never heard someone teach like that. And then he's doing mighty 00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:08.939 deeds. And then this happens. He says, and when he returned to Capernaum after some days, it was 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:14.700 reported that he was at home, and many were gathered together so that there was no more room, not even at 00:07:14.700 --> 00:07:20.360 the door. And he was preaching the word to them, and they came, bringing to him a paralytic carried 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:25.840 by four men. And when the crowd could not get near him, I'm sorry, and when they, the people carrying 00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:30.700 the paralytic, could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him. And when they 00:07:30.699 --> 00:07:35.360 had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay. And when Jesus saw their faith, 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:43.420 he said to the paralytic, son, your sins are forgiven. Now, some of the scribes were sitting 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:49.719 there questioning in their hearts, why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming. 00:07:50.300 --> 00:07:57.879 Who can forgive sins but God alone? And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:02.800 questioned within themselves, said to them, why do you question these things in your hearts? 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:09.879 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, your sins are forgiven, or to say, rise, take up your bed and 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:16.680 walk? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. He said to 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:23.779 the paralytic, I say to you, rise, pick up your bed and go home. And he rose and immediately picked up his 00:08:23.779 --> 00:08:30.119 bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, we never saw 00:08:30.119 --> 00:08:42.799 anything like this. Okay, a couple notes here. So Jesus says that you may know that the Son of Man 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:47.959 has authority on earth to forgive sins. If you start reading the Gospels for yourself, you'll find 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:56.400 that Jesus is often using this expression, the Son of Man, to talk about himself. And what does that 00:08:56.400 --> 00:09:03.740 little phrase mean? Well, I think sometimes, you know, it's easy to think, oh, a Son of Man, that's like a 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:13.519 human being, right? But actually, Jesus means something pretty specific by that. The Son of Man was 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:21.539 actually a messianic title. It was a title for the Messiah that came from the book of Daniel. 00:09:22.379 --> 00:09:27.879 Daniel was an Old Testament prophetic book. The second half of Daniel especially has very symbolic 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:33.620 visions of how God's kingdom will come to fruition. And one of the key figures in that vision that Daniel 00:09:33.620 --> 00:09:42.000 has hundreds of years before Jesus came is of one like the Son of Man who ascends on the clouds of 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:48.340 heaven and has given an everlasting dominion, right? And from that phrase in Daniel, the Son of Man, 00:09:48.460 --> 00:09:53.879 it became sort of a messianic title, a title of this like ruler who was going to come, who would be the 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:58.620 greatest ruler, and who would rule with an everlasting dominion. So it's very interesting that Jesus here 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:03.320 and throughout the Gospels, especially the first three Gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, is taking up 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:10.500 that title for himself, the Son of Man. But the question is, okay, well, okay, it's a messianic title. 00:10:10.500 --> 00:10:17.139 That doesn't necessarily mean he's God, right? But let's look a little deeper at this passage in 00:10:17.139 --> 00:10:30.440 Mark 2. Jesus claims something very, very surprising in this passage. Jesus assumes to himself the 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:37.160 authority to forgive sins, right? They lower the man down on the mat and he says, sons, 00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:46.720 your sins are forgiven. Now why on earth, well, why, looking at verse 6, some of the scribes are 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.260 sitting there questioning their hearts. Why does this man speak like that? He's blaspheming. 00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:52.919 Why do they think it's blasphemy? It says right there. 00:10:54.980 --> 00:11:05.139 Who can forgive sins but God alone, right? Yeah. What is a sin, by the way? Who is a sin against? 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:15.039 It's an offense against God, right? Yeah. You know, if Abraham were to come to Richard one day 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:21.199 and give him a good offensive slap against the cheek, be like, I mock you, right? 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:29.099 Something very, you know, chivalrous and austere. And I would step in and say, you know, don't worry. 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:31.639 Abraham, I forgive you. 00:11:34.259 --> 00:11:40.620 How would Richard feel, right? Who has the authority to forgive this wrong except for Richard alone, 00:11:40.620 --> 00:11:46.419 right? You know? And here's Jesus sitting in the middle of this room looking to this man talking 00:11:46.419 --> 00:11:53.539 about sin, right? Which Jews knew that sin was against the one Lord God saying, therefore, I forgive 00:11:53.539 --> 00:12:03.340 you. I forgive you. Your sins are forgiven, right? That Jesus is here speaking with the authority of God. 00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:12.000 And it's very interesting in this moment, Jesus isn't, you know, it would be one thing, wouldn't it, 00:12:12.620 --> 00:12:19.100 if Jesus were in the temple, right? Presiding over sacrifices, performing a sacrifice on behalf of 00:12:19.100 --> 00:12:23.620 someone as a priest and saying, ah, okay, God forgives your sins because you've done what God 00:12:23.620 --> 00:12:28.759 asked you to do under the old covenant of doing a sacrifice, right? But clearly that's not what Jesus is 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:35.019 doing here. He's speaking out of his own authority, saying that he has the authority to forgive sins. 00:12:36.299 --> 00:12:42.200 So Jesus is clearly here, I think, claiming a divine prerogative to himself. Something that only 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:47.899 can be true of God, Jesus is just naturally taking to himself. And then giving evidence of it. How? 00:12:49.460 --> 00:12:54.319 By telling the man, take up your mat and walk. So that you know the Son of Man has authority to 00:12:54.320 --> 00:13:00.580 forgive sins. Pick up your bed and walk, right? Which, by the way, is why they wanted the guy lowered 00:13:00.580 --> 00:13:04.760 through the roof in the first place, right? But isn't it, Jesus, that Jesus takes the opportunity here 00:13:04.760 --> 00:13:12.240 to go even deeper to reveal himself, right? And this is very early in Jesus's ministry, right? Sometimes we 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:20.980 can think, if Jesus were God, why don't you just show up and just be like, everybody, I'm God. I'm here, right? 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:26.879 Now, let's workshop that a little bit. Why would that not have been a great idea for Jesus to do? 00:13:28.580 --> 00:13:35.039 Yeah, okay, he would have provoked a lot of ire from good monotheistic, his good monotheistic, 00:13:35.139 --> 00:13:38.940 you know, compatriots. Yeah, why else? Yeah, Ivor? 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:45.080 Yes, yep, yep, that's exactly what Josh threw in. Yes, they would have been like, this guy's 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:47.860 blaspheming, you're out. Yeah, any other reasons? Judy, yeah? 00:13:47.860 --> 00:13:52.019 Because he wanted them to be able to hear, he wanted them to get it. 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:52.820 Yes! 00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:54.500 Doing it that way, yeah. 00:13:55.419 --> 00:14:00.519 Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, it would have completely hit them as implausible 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:05.820 if Jesus, who had lived in their, you know, he's in his hometown here. Did you catch that 00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:10.279 detail from Mark? He's in his hometown where he, you know, he didn't technically grow up 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.560 there, but it was where he kind of, you know, set up shop. They knew he was a human being, 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:19.919 like we talked about last week, right? He wouldn't have gotten very far if he just would have jumped 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:25.299 right to the conclusion. He was going to show them, right? He was going to show them who he was 00:14:25.299 --> 00:14:32.619 before he told them who he was. Okay, let's keep going. Let's look, let's turn to a different gospel. 00:14:32.719 --> 00:14:42.779 Let's go back to the gospel of Matthew, Matthew chapter 11. Matthew chapter 11, verses 25 through 30. 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:51.379 Spending some time in what's called the synoptic gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke are called the 00:14:51.379 --> 00:14:56.139 synoptic gospels, which is a Greek word that means they sort of see things together. They see things 00:14:56.139 --> 00:15:01.360 similarly, which is just a way of saying that Matthew, Mark, and Luke all are really similar, 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:06.120 right? And then John sort of has this different perspective. He adds a lot to the life of Jesus, 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:10.659 but I'm starting with the synoptic gospels because sometimes you'll find if you read some of the 00:15:10.659 --> 00:15:15.360 literature that, oh, all this stuff about Jesus being God, you only find that in the gospel of 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:20.240 John. That was a later thing. It wasn't in some of the earliest records. That's actually not true 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:25.959 when you look at the synoptic gospels and you really start to understand them on their own terms in their 00:15:25.959 --> 00:15:31.839 Jewish context, that they're presenting a very, very similar picture of Jesus' self-understanding. 00:15:32.699 --> 00:15:37.519 Granted, not as explicit as the gospel of John, and we'll get there, but certainly very clear. 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:43.600 Okay, let's look at this one from Matthew 11, 25 through 30. Matthew writes this, 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:45.419 At that time, Jesus declared, 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:51.039 I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you've hidden these things from the wise and 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:56.460 understanding and revealed them to little children. Okay, what's the context here? The context here is 00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:02.079 that we're a little further along in Jesus' ministry, and some people are starting to understand 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:09.300 and be attracted to Jesus, and some people are starting to not understand, and opposition is 00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:14.940 starting to grow. And you see in the passage right before this, where some of the places where Jesus 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:20.620 did a lot of his ministry, they're the ones who are actually rejecting him. So you're seeing the 00:16:20.620 --> 00:16:28.700 opposition to Jesus start to grow. But some are believing. Some eyes are being opened. So he says, 00:16:28.700 --> 00:16:31.740 I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you've hidden these things from the wise and 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:39.080 understanding and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:48.620 Jesus says this, all things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Father 00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:53.580 except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 00:16:53.580 --> 00:17:02.680 Come to me. Did I read that right? Did I skip a line? I think I skipped a line. All things have 00:17:02.680 --> 00:17:05.519 been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the... There we go, that's a line I missed. 00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:11.019 And no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son, 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:16.779 and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:21.680 and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and a loving heart, 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:27.740 and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. What a great... I 00:17:27.740 --> 00:17:32.039 mean, the end of this passage is great. It's one of my favorite passages in all the Gospels, right? 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:40.480 Jesus just inviting everyone to come and find rest in him. What a wonderful invitation of the Lord. 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:45.779 But very interesting, what gives him the authority to say, come to me and rest? Well, 00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:52.879 look at the verse right before this. Verse 27. Jesus says, all things have been committed to me. 00:17:53.059 --> 00:17:58.740 All things have been handed over to me by my Father. Makes this staggering claim that he has 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:04.319 the right and the power to control everything that exists. All things have been given to me, 00:18:04.420 --> 00:18:11.099 right? Jesus will say in that same verse, right? No one knows the Father but the Son. 00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:21.019 Okay. No one knows the Father but the Son. He's making a remarkable claim there to have 00:18:21.019 --> 00:18:26.419 complete knowledge of the Father, right? In a way that no one else does. Jesus is saying, 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:36.019 I know God fully to the full in a personal way, right? And compared to the comprehensive and exhaustive 00:18:36.019 --> 00:18:42.720 way that Jesus knows the Father, no one else knows him at all, right? Now, that in of itself is a pretty 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:50.660 stunning claim, right? How could a mere human say, I know God fully, deeply, intimately, supremely, 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:55.279 right? After all, who can know the infinite but the infinite, right? 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.400 And this, in the Jewish context, would have been extra powerful, right? 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:08.960 For sure, yeah. Because claiming that lineage and that full knowledge would have been identifying 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:13.680 himself. Yeah, well, this Father-Son language, which I think we'll see in one of the other passages 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:22.100 I've picked out, this Father-Son language starts to push into this kind of identity between Jesus 00:19:22.100 --> 00:19:23.900 and the Father. Yeah. 00:19:24.320 --> 00:19:27.200 Because it was common for Jews to call God Father. 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.720 Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it was... 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.400 Exclusive kind of context where no one else knows him. 00:19:32.420 --> 00:19:36.019 Right. Exactly. Yeah. You can see that Jesus is taking that language and transfiguring it, 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.779 right? He's pushing it up to a different degree that's true of him in a way that it's not true 00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:43.799 of others. That's right, Josh. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now, here's the most startling statement 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.259 in verse 27, though, when Jesus goes on and says, 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.240 No one knows the Son but the Father. 00:19:49.240 --> 00:20:00.120 Okay. No one can understand the fullness of who Jesus is except for God himself. 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:04.519 I mean, I'm not... Think of how audacious that is, right? 00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:09.859 Again, if I were to come to... I'm going to use you as an example, Abraham. You're sitting close to the 00:20:09.859 --> 00:20:13.019 front, you and Richard. You guys are sitting closest to the front to me, so you get all that. 00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:19.420 But, like, you know, if I were to come to Richard and be like, Richard, I'm so profound. I'm so wise. 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:23.460 I'm so great. You won't be able to understand me. 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:29.079 Only God can really understand me. Right? 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.779 I mean, that's a ridiculous thing to say, right? I mean, we just sit here and laugh about it. Right? 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:41.779 Yeah. Right? Now, there is a truth in the fact that, like, only God really knows each of us 00:20:41.779 --> 00:20:47.680 individually. Right? Only God really knows me in the depths of who I am and Richard in the depths 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.059 of who he is and Beth in the depths of who she is. Right? Of course. Right? As human beings, 00:20:52.180 --> 00:20:57.500 our understanding is limited. Right? But don't you see in the context of this verse where Jesus is 00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:04.799 saying, no one knows the Father but me and no one knows me but the Father. The kind of identity 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:12.220 that he's drawing between himself and God. It really is a stunning, stunning claim. 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.159 Any thoughts on this passage before we move to the next one? Yeah, Richard. 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:20.079 So, I'm uncomfortable with the word identity. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:22.859 Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Go ahead. Go ahead. 00:21:22.919 --> 00:21:24.759 I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah. 00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:30.099 I can't think of a better word just offhand right now. Yeah, yeah. 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:38.960 But things that are identical are not in any way different or separate from each other. 00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:41.519 Right, right. Certainly not numerically separate from each other. 00:21:42.099 --> 00:21:45.240 Yeah, yeah. Yep. I just slipped into modalism. 00:21:45.579 --> 00:21:47.019 Well, inadvertently. 00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:51.700 No, it's really right. Now, I think you're bringing up a really good point, Richard, 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:58.579 because you can see why, again, we're pushing into the reality of God as Trinity, right? 00:21:58.779 --> 00:21:59.460 Can I say one more thing? 00:21:59.460 --> 00:21:59.980 Oh, yeah, of course. 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:05.039 If by identical you mean the Son finds his identity in the Father 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:10.539 and the Father finds his identity in the Son as distinct identities. 00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:11.079 Yeah. 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:11.879 Sure, sure, sure. 00:22:11.879 --> 00:22:12.379 I'll go along. 00:22:12.379 --> 00:22:16.500 Yeah, the only thing I meant by that is just Jesus is fully divine. 00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:17.759 Yeah. 00:22:18.019 --> 00:22:20.599 He is of one nature with the Father, right? 00:22:20.980 --> 00:22:22.200 But they are different persons, right? 00:22:23.539 --> 00:22:26.639 If we have fun in this class, we'll do a class on the Trinity in spring, you know, 00:22:26.660 --> 00:22:27.379 and then we'll get into it. 00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:27.539 Yeah. 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:29.519 Yeah. 00:22:29.619 --> 00:22:30.639 No, thank you for that clarification. 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:31.099 You're right. 00:22:31.220 --> 00:22:31.480 You're right. 00:22:31.539 --> 00:22:35.379 Because Jesus isn't saying, like, I'm the Father, right? 00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:37.660 He's saying, no, I'm the Son of the Father, right? 00:22:37.660 --> 00:22:45.240 Which is pushing us into the realm of God's, of there being one God who eternally exists 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.180 in more than one person, right? 00:22:47.859 --> 00:22:51.960 And as we see in the rest of the, as the rest of the New Testament unfolds, that God reveals 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:56.839 himself to eternally exist as one God in three persons, right? 00:22:57.120 --> 00:22:58.819 There's one God, right? 00:22:58.819 --> 00:23:00.159 The Father is God. 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:01.019 The Son is God. 00:23:01.139 --> 00:23:01.919 The Spirit is God. 00:23:02.019 --> 00:23:03.700 But the Father is not the Son. 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:05.379 And the Son is not the Spirit. 00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:07.159 And the Spirit is not the Father, right? 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.980 And in that right there, that's the doctrine of the Trinity, right? 00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:18.620 And if you can wrap your mind around that, then you're God, right? 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:20.799 Then there's a fourth person of the Trinity. 00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:21.319 No, I'm kidding. 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.099 Anyway, we're getting into the, we're getting a little off track. 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:31.720 But you can see the kinds of claims that Jesus is making here of this, well, identity isn't 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:32.140 the right word. 00:23:32.660 --> 00:23:34.720 He's at an equal level as the Father, right? 00:23:34.819 --> 00:23:35.400 Yeah, Susan, go ahead. 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:42.820 I just love how the scripture teaches me the full of the, as you said, never saying, 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:45.280 look, guys, we're training. 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:46.140 Yeah. 00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:48.080 Yeah, that's right. 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:48.600 That's right. 00:23:48.740 --> 00:23:48.900 Yeah. 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:55.500 About 66 separate books over how many generations reveals it. 00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:56.500 That's right. 00:23:56.500 --> 00:23:57.000 And to read it. 00:23:57.019 --> 00:23:57.620 Yeah, that's right. 00:23:57.660 --> 00:23:59.620 I'm going to see you're hovering over the water. 00:23:59.620 --> 00:24:00.259 Yeah, that's right. 00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:01.820 I mean, just on and on and on. 00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:02.640 Yeah, yeah. 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.759 It's just so beautiful. 00:24:03.860 --> 00:24:04.019 Yeah. 00:24:04.620 --> 00:24:05.160 It is. 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:06.860 I don't think any other conclusion. 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:07.519 Yeah, that's right. 00:24:07.820 --> 00:24:08.240 That's right. 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:08.700 It's the Bible. 00:24:09.340 --> 00:24:10.160 Yeah, that's right. 00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:13.620 When you, you know, when you, especially when you study the development of how the church 00:24:13.620 --> 00:24:17.880 articulates what we now call the doctrine of the Trinity, what you really find they're 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.840 doing is just exegesis of the Bible. 00:24:21.360 --> 00:24:26.740 They're trying to, they're trying to understand what God has revealed in the Bible and, and 00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:30.720 put it into language so that we can come to the text and understand what it's saying. 00:24:30.860 --> 00:24:34.700 You know, sometimes people look at the development of Christian doctrine and say, ah, it's all 00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:39.360 these like, all these foreign ideas getting imported and we just need to get back to the 00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:40.080 pure scriptures. 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.080 And of course, scriptures always are supreme norm, right? 00:24:43.620 --> 00:24:48.400 And maybe there are some ways of articulating it that we articulate in different ways. 00:24:48.580 --> 00:24:52.539 But what the church is doing as it develops these doctrines is simply exegeting scripture 00:24:52.539 --> 00:24:55.880 and finding ways of saying it that brings these threads together. 00:24:55.880 --> 00:25:02.260 And that's what, that's what a word like Trinity or even incarnation is, right? 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.780 Trinity is not a word you will find in scripture. 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:10.720 What it is, is it's a, it's a, it's a little handle that points to these passages about the 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:13.540 very nature of who God's revealed himself to be, right? 00:25:14.180 --> 00:25:17.560 You could, you can chalk the word Trinity if you want, that's fine, right? 00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:23.140 But you're hard pressed to find a better word to describe the biblical reality, right? 00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:25.600 Same thing with incarnation. 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:29.600 Now, incarnation gets pretty close to John 1, 14, right? 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.520 The word, the word became flesh. 00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:35.400 I mean, literally all incarnation means the Latin word that just means became flesh, right? 00:25:35.520 --> 00:25:38.480 So anyway, let's keep, let's keep going. 00:25:38.820 --> 00:25:40.000 Let's look at the gospel of John. 00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:40.520 John 5. 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:42.200 Yeah, Jonathan. 00:25:42.200 --> 00:26:01.000 No, I think it's definitely getting into that realm. 00:26:01.580 --> 00:26:02.279 John, for sure. 00:26:02.360 --> 00:26:02.480 Yeah. 00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:07.339 And we'll look at some other passages that push into that more explicitly, 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:10.759 especially as some of Jesus' earliest followers 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:16.059 start to explain their understanding of who Jesus revealed himself to be. 00:26:16.360 --> 00:26:16.480 Yeah. 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:21.079 But absolutely, you see this when it comes to the person Jesus all the time. 00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.339 It's almost as if, like, there's a line, right? 00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:26.480 And above that line is God, and below that line is all of creation. 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:28.700 And that's, like, basic biblical worldview, right? 00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:30.799 Like, God is not the creation. 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:32.559 He's the creator, right? 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:34.559 And then the question comes is, like, 00:26:34.919 --> 00:26:37.500 well, where do we put Jesus with respect to that line? 00:26:38.159 --> 00:26:40.720 Is he above it or is he below it, right? 00:26:41.159 --> 00:26:42.779 And we'll talk more about this next week 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:46.200 when we get into the kind of development of understanding the incarnation. 00:26:46.879 --> 00:26:51.419 But again and again, the scripture writers are saying he's above that line. 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.779 He assumed human nature below that line, but he is above it, right? 00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.559 And we'll look at some places in just a second where that comes out. 00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:01.619 So let's look at John 5, actually. 00:27:01.700 --> 00:27:02.519 This will be good. 00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:03.299 This will get us there. 00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:08.919 John 5. 00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:10.559 Let's look at 19 through 23. 00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:16.319 And then we'll look at John 8 after this. 00:27:17.899 --> 00:27:18.220 Okay. 00:27:18.220 --> 00:27:20.859 John 5, 19 through 23. 00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:24.199 So Jesus said to them, 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:54.200 00:27:54.200 --> 00:28:04.559 Then Jesus goes on and says, 00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:19.819 So Jesus is claiming here that, again, he and the Father basically are working in unison. 00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:23.799 And all the glory that the Father deserves, Jesus deserves. 00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:27.720 All the right and authority that the Father has to judge, the Son has. 00:28:28.439 --> 00:28:33.819 All the authority and power to give life and to grant life and to take it away, the Son has. 00:28:33.819 --> 00:28:41.019 And if you think about a kind of basic biblical monotheism, right? 00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:45.240 If we were to read the Old Testament and just ask, what is the picture of God that we're seeing here? 00:28:45.460 --> 00:28:49.779 It's very clear in the Old Testament that the one Lord God has two prerogatives. 00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:52.299 One, to make things, right? 00:28:52.439 --> 00:28:53.819 He is the giver of life. 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:58.399 And two, because he's the giver of life, he has a right to judge things, right? 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:01.860 He will be the one before whom all of creation comes into account. 00:29:03.800 --> 00:29:04.980 And again, Jesus is saying, 00:29:06.280 --> 00:29:10.000 In that circle of that God, I'm inside of it. 00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:18.960 It's almost as if, you know, again, going back to the kind of scholarly criticism, 00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:22.160 Like, oh yeah, John's gospel is kind of later. 00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:22.500 Right. 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:23.060 It's kind of weird. 00:29:23.280 --> 00:29:23.560 Right. 00:29:23.560 --> 00:29:24.220 It's not. 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:24.840 Yeah. 00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:25.700 It doesn't line up. 00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:27.320 It's not really what Jesus... 00:29:27.320 --> 00:29:27.680 Right. 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:31.480 If you think about the relationship that John... 00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:31.880 Sure. 00:29:32.820 --> 00:29:34.120 ...claims for himself, right? 00:29:34.120 --> 00:29:34.680 Yeah, right. 00:29:34.700 --> 00:29:35.580 Jesus is like best friend. 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:36.100 Right. 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:36.519 Right. 00:29:37.539 --> 00:29:39.240 And there's 12 guys, right? 00:29:39.340 --> 00:29:42.440 Like, not all of them can be as close to Jesus. 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:43.180 Right, right. 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:44.100 Yeah, right, right. 00:29:44.259 --> 00:29:47.039 It's like, he's in the crowd and he's preaching something, 00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:48.640 But the people in the back row can't quite hear. 00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:49.539 Yeah, yeah. 00:29:49.660 --> 00:29:53.080 John is hearing, like, every little thing that he's... 00:29:53.080 --> 00:29:53.259 Yeah, yeah. 00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:55.160 And so, I don't know. 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:55.960 It's... 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:56.039 Yeah. 00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:05.259 Or like, somebody described once, John's description of, like, the Lord's Supper and 00:30:05.259 --> 00:30:09.460 watching the disciples' feet as like a photographer doing close-ups. 00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:10.440 Mm, interesting. 00:30:10.579 --> 00:30:11.039 Yeah. 00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:13.339 Like, just... 00:30:13.339 --> 00:30:16.500 It's just that much more intimate because it's closer to... 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:16.779 Yeah. 00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:18.139 Literally closer to Jesus. 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:18.940 Yeah, that's right. 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:20.319 That's a good word, Josh. 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:20.539 Yeah. 00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:29.539 I think you find that a lot of those perspectives on the New Testament were developed kind of late... 00:30:29.539 --> 00:30:31.539 I mean... 00:30:31.539 --> 00:30:36.759 For a while, New Testament scholars thought... 00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:40.759 If they kind of took a very kind of... 00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:44.319 For lack of a better term, secular view of the New Testament, 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:51.000 they started to develop theories whereby the composition and completion of John's Gospel 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.740 wasn't until, like, the early second century, right? 00:30:53.740 --> 00:30:56.200 So, they started to believe that John was really, really late. 00:30:56.819 --> 00:31:01.480 And that was because when they read John's Gospel, they thought, well, there's all these, 00:31:01.539 --> 00:31:06.099 what they thought to be, really Greek influences. 00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:10.279 It just felt like there was all these Greek ideas that had been imported. 00:31:10.939 --> 00:31:11.379 Anachronistic? 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:12.240 Yeah. 00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:19.379 So, the hypothesis was, well, what happens when those Jesus stories kind of got passed 00:31:19.379 --> 00:31:22.799 down and whispered down the lane into the second century in Greek cultures? 00:31:22.899 --> 00:31:24.379 Well, then they just started adding all this stuff. 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:32.299 What's really interesting is this, is that we actually have small copies, like, not full 00:31:32.299 --> 00:31:37.779 copies, but fragments of the Gospel of John that are dated well within the first century. 00:31:38.180 --> 00:31:44.480 So, that kind of crushed that idea that John's Gospel wasn't written until into the second 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:45.220 century, right? 00:31:45.819 --> 00:31:52.059 And then, the more we've actually studied first century Judaism, we realize that John's Gospel 00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:54.240 actually is a very Jewish Gospel. 00:31:54.980 --> 00:32:00.379 It's not just sort of larded with Greek ideas, whatever that means, right? 00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:04.080 And this is where a more sophisticated understanding of the first century has really blown a lot 00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:08.000 of holes in these kind of old modernist ideas of the development of the New Testament. 00:32:08.340 --> 00:32:10.600 Is that an oxymoron, old modernist? 00:32:11.540 --> 00:32:12.460 No, actually. 00:32:14.280 --> 00:32:16.620 Modernist meaning a particular intellectual movement. 00:32:17.040 --> 00:32:17.240 Yeah. 00:32:18.820 --> 00:32:21.040 But it does sound kind of oxymoronic, doesn't it? 00:32:21.080 --> 00:32:21.620 Which is good. 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:23.200 I like that it sounds oxymoronic. 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:29.960 So, the more and more we've studied the history of first century Judaism, we've realized that 00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:35.059 there isn't this kind of clean divide between like all these Hebrew ideas and all these 00:32:35.059 --> 00:32:39.779 Greek ideas, which is how a lot of that kind of turn of the century New Testament scholarship 00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:40.220 worked. 00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:43.299 It's like, well, anything that we thought was a Hebrew idea was early. 00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:45.500 Anything we thought was a Greek idea is late. 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:50.700 But look, first century Jews were always, the cultures were always mixed. 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:55.000 Since Alexander in the fourth century BC took over everything, it was all Hellenized, 00:32:55.380 --> 00:32:55.660 right? 00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:55.700 Right? 00:32:56.220 --> 00:33:00.759 Philo in the first century was writing things that were more Greek and philosophical than 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:01.560 some of the Greeks were. 00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:09.700 So, it just blows holes in a lot of these theories that try to undermine the early day and the 00:33:09.700 --> 00:33:12.220 plausibility of the Gospels being historically reliable. 00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:14.380 Okay, anyway, that was a way rabbit trail. 00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:15.680 Let's go to John 8. 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:17.840 Let's go to John 8 before we run out of time. 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:23.699 John 8, verse 51. 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:28.439 Let's see where we're at here. 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:30.539 Yeah, let's look at 51 through 59. 00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:38.379 So, in John 8, as John is telling the story of Jesus' life, his conflict with the religious 00:33:38.379 --> 00:33:40.699 authorities is really starting to peak at this point. 00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:45.420 So, let's pick up with 51. 00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:49.680 Jesus is saying, truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see 00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:50.120 death. 00:33:52.360 --> 00:33:55.100 I mean, maybe we could have just read that verse and then called it a day. 00:33:56.140 --> 00:33:59.080 If anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:04.539 Okay, well, then the Jews said to him, now we know that you have a demon. 00:34:04.620 --> 00:34:06.120 Okay, so they're in the middle of a fight right now. 00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:07.779 Now we know that you have a demon. 00:34:07.779 --> 00:34:10.759 Listen, Abraham died, as did the prophets. 00:34:11.059 --> 00:34:14.500 Yet you say, if anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death. 00:34:14.860 --> 00:34:18.920 Are you greater than our father Abraham who died and the prophets died? 00:34:19.259 --> 00:34:20.920 Who do you make yourself out to be? 00:34:21.579 --> 00:34:22.980 There's Houston Smith's point, right? 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:25.380 People are asking, who are you? 00:34:25.460 --> 00:34:27.460 Well, they're actually asking, who do you think you are right here? 00:34:27.739 --> 00:34:28.440 Okay, yeah. 00:34:29.179 --> 00:34:32.239 Jesus answered, if I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.920 It's my father who glorifies me, of whom you say he is our God. 00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:40.400 But you've not known him. 00:34:41.160 --> 00:34:41.940 I know him. 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:46.360 If I were to say to you that I do not know him, I'd be a liar like you. 00:34:47.180 --> 00:34:47.620 Sorry. 00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:52.040 The gloves are coming off in this very first century. 00:34:52.200 --> 00:34:56.780 You know, when we read the New Testament, we have to remember that, like, it's gritty and real, right? 00:34:56.780 --> 00:35:02.400 Like, they weren't always as civil in their disagreements as sometimes we maybe were. 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:05.540 I would be a liar like you. 00:35:06.500 --> 00:35:08.340 But I do know him and I keep his word. 00:35:08.540 --> 00:35:12.660 Your father Abraham, now here's the stunning thing. 00:35:13.240 --> 00:35:16.860 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.780 He saw it and was glad. 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:20.840 So the Jews said to him. 00:35:21.660 --> 00:35:26.540 And in John's Gospel, by the way, when it says, the Jews, like that, what he means is not all Jewish people. 00:35:26.980 --> 00:35:31.060 That's a technical phrase for John that means, like, the Jewish authorities, like the Jewish religious authorities. 00:35:32.720 --> 00:35:36.320 So the Jews said to him, you're not yet 50 years old. 00:35:36.660 --> 00:35:37.720 Have you seen Abraham? 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:43.059 Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. 00:35:44.299 --> 00:35:46.139 So they picked up stones to throw at him. 00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:49.179 But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. 00:35:53.279 --> 00:36:00.399 So clearly, I mean, this is a strange thing for someone to say, right? 00:36:00.859 --> 00:36:03.759 Before Abraham was, I am. 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:06.380 I mean, it's just a stunning statement for Jesus to say. 00:36:08.420 --> 00:36:17.580 And not only is Jesus sort of claiming a sort of eternal existence here that predates even the sort of ultimate patriarch of Judaism. 00:36:18.060 --> 00:36:26.340 And not just is he claiming that, like, Abraham's hopes were all riding on him coming and fulfilling the promises, which, of course, that's true. 00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:33.120 But even the tense of, you know, he doesn't say, before Abraham was, I was, right? 00:36:33.940 --> 00:36:35.680 But before Abraham was, I am. 00:36:36.660 --> 00:36:45.320 Which most scholars of the Gospel of John will say Jesus is sort of deliberately picking up there on an Old Testament thread, right? 00:36:45.980 --> 00:36:48.700 Do you remember when Moses was at the burning bush, right? 00:36:48.699 --> 00:36:53.000 And how does God reveal himself in that moment? 00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:59.099 What's the sort of divine name that the Lord, God, speaks out of the burning bush to Moses, right? 00:36:59.159 --> 00:36:59.539 Go ahead, Kim. 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.480 I am who I am, right? 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:11.699 And this I am becomes a way of referring to the one true transcendent ultimate creator God who's covenanted himself with Israel for the rescue of the world. 00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:15.759 And Jesus is claiming that for himself here. 00:37:16.379 --> 00:37:18.299 And that's why they pick up stones to throw at him. 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:21.159 Because clearly they heard it as blasphemy. 00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:24.919 Okay. 00:37:28.399 --> 00:37:29.379 It's a quarter of. 00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:30.000 I wonder... 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:33.980 There's so much more I wanted to do. 00:37:34.099 --> 00:37:36.599 I'm terrible at time management in these Sunday schools. 00:37:36.839 --> 00:37:37.539 I'm sorry. 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:49.800 Why don't we look at, just real briefly, two passages of New Testament writers looking back on Jesus and kind of making sense of him. 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:57.480 So what did the earliest followers of Jesus believe about Jesus, right? 00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:59.960 So we've seen kind of Jesus' own self-understanding here. 00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.739 What was the earliest church saying about him? 00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:05.320 One place to start would be Colossians 2. 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.360 So we're flipping into the letters now. 00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:20.680 So moving from the kind of accounts of Jesus' life into the letters where the apostles of Jesus are teaching the churches and shepherding them and guiding them in their belief and following of Jesus. 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:23.500 So Philippians, Colossians. 00:38:25.160 --> 00:38:27.160 Colossians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians. 00:38:27.260 --> 00:38:29.740 It's after 1 and 2 Corinthians. 00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:32.740 Colossians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians. 00:38:32.740 --> 00:38:33.780 Colossians chapter 2. 00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:38.280 Let me read 6 through 10. 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:41.800 Paul says, 00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:48.300 Therefore, as you receive Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:56.580 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty to seed according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 00:38:57.160 --> 00:39:02.400 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.180 And you have been filled in him who is the head of all rule and authority. 00:39:07.179 --> 00:39:16.899 So, I mean, there's a pretty straightforward claim that the apostles understood in Jesus the fullness of deity to dwell. 00:39:16.900 --> 00:39:24.059 I want to jump back a chapter in Colossians, just because this will come up at times in these conversations about the early church's understanding of Jesus. 00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:27.519 And that's in Colossians 1, verse 15. 00:39:27.700 --> 00:39:33.519 So if you just jump back a chapter, you see that in 1, 15, Paul's talking about Jesus. 00:39:33.660 --> 00:39:35.260 He's talking about the Son. 00:39:35.260 --> 00:39:36.940 And then he says, 00:39:37.180 --> 00:39:39.840 He is the image of the invisible God. 00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:41.220 And then he says this, 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.700 The firstborn of all creation. 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:44.660 Now you think, whoa, tap the brakes. 00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:46.740 The firstborn of all creation. 00:39:46.940 --> 00:39:50.500 That sounds a lot like Jesus was a created being, right? 00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:52.400 He was the firstborn. 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.760 Okay, this is where a little bit of cultural translation is helpful. 00:39:56.240 --> 00:40:05.000 The firstborn was basically a title in the first century for someone who was the inheritor of the entire estate, right? 00:40:05.260 --> 00:40:11.080 Now you can see why firstborn language would mean sort of the one who has authority and privilege and right over something. 00:40:11.600 --> 00:40:19.480 Because it was a culture where if you were literally the oldest son, you were the heir of the whole estate, right? 00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:25.000 But that language of firstborn becomes almost like a technical term. 00:40:25.240 --> 00:40:31.320 That doesn't have to mean like you were literally born of someone, but you have the rights over it all, right? 00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:39.920 And so in other words, what Paul means here, not necessarily that Jesus was sort of first in created order, right? 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:45.140 But first in rank or first in authority or first in glory over it, right? 00:40:45.660 --> 00:40:51.820 Now, granted, if verse 15 were the only verse we had about Jesus, it would be kind of open. 00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:53.080 What does Paul mean? 00:40:53.079 --> 00:41:00.739 But I think when you compare that with the rest of the New Testament, it's clear that Paul's using that as a title, not as a statement of Jesus' ontological nature, right? 00:41:01.319 --> 00:41:09.319 So he's the firstborn of all creation, meaning because he is the image of the invisible God, he has the right over all creation. 00:41:09.500 --> 00:41:11.539 Now, why does he have the right over all creation? 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:14.840 For by him, all things were created. 00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:16.259 Oh, okay. 00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:18.360 Well, now that sort of solves it, right? 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:25.220 For by him, all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. 00:41:25.680 --> 00:41:29.720 All things were created through him and for him. 00:41:30.260 --> 00:41:36.760 And that for him is the idea that he is the first, the heir of it all, right? 00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:40.680 And he is before all things. 00:41:40.940 --> 00:41:42.900 And in him, all things hold together. 00:41:43.120 --> 00:41:45.180 And he is the head of the body, the church. 00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:46.940 He is the beginning. 00:41:46.940 --> 00:41:50.820 So now Paul's turned the corner from creation, right, to redemption. 00:41:51.700 --> 00:41:53.920 He's the head of the body, the church, right? 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.760 This body that's the new creation out of sin. 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.700 He's the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, right? 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.480 So now he has authority not just over creation, but even over life and death, right? 00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:09.079 That in everything he might be preeminent. 00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:11.940 For in him, all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. 00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:20.099 And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. 00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:32.700 And you, who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, 00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:38.899 in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him. 00:42:38.900 --> 00:42:46.780 And that verse kind of gets us into the just practical difference that it makes. 00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:50.320 That Jesus is not just human, but God, right? 00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.400 We touched on a little bit this last week. 00:42:52.420 --> 00:42:53.500 And we'll pick this up next week. 00:42:53.539 --> 00:42:54.619 This is where we'll start next week. 00:42:54.619 --> 00:42:57.880 But maybe we'll just end by saying this. 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:01.980 Like, if Jesus is God, then that means a number of things. 00:43:02.059 --> 00:43:07.139 It means not just that Jesus is worthy of complete worship, right? 00:43:07.460 --> 00:43:15.539 Not just sort of respect as another human, but utter adoration and total allegiance and obedience, right? 00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:22.819 But it also means that the salvation, that the redemption that Jesus has accomplished is of infinite value. 00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:28.980 We said last week that because he's a human, he's able to intercede for us. 00:43:29.019 --> 00:43:30.640 He's able to work on our behalf. 00:43:31.420 --> 00:43:38.539 That because he's fully God, that salvation he's wrought on our behalf is incomparably great. 00:43:39.260 --> 00:43:43.900 Because God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself. 00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:50.900 Okay, why don't we stop there? 00:43:50.900 --> 00:43:53.960 We have like maybe two or three minutes for questions. 00:43:54.059 --> 00:43:55.480 Any other questions you guys have? 00:43:55.680 --> 00:43:58.980 Again, we're going to pick up on some of the ramifications of Jesus being God next week. 00:44:01.180 --> 00:44:08.660 And then we'll do a little church history of talking about how the church tried to draw these two truths together of Jesus being human and God and divine. 00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:09.380 Yeah, Richard, go ahead. 00:44:09.380 --> 00:44:14.400 Well, the passage in chapter 2 of Colossians that we read. 00:44:14.539 --> 00:44:14.680 Yeah. 00:44:17.900 --> 00:44:21.539 I use this verse sometimes with Jehovah's Witnesses. 00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:21.840 Yeah. 00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:25.660 And others too who are not Jehovah's Witnesses. 00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:25.880 Yeah. 00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:31.599 And when I point that out, they say, oh my, look at verse 10. 00:44:33.200 --> 00:44:34.500 And you have fullness in him. 00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:37.780 You have been brought to fullness, as it says in the NIV. 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:38.579 Right, right. 00:44:39.059 --> 00:44:43.659 So you see, we participate in the same fullness Jesus had. 00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:45.280 Does that make us God? 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:45.739 Mm-hmm. 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:46.239 Mm-hmm. 00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:48.920 I always thought that was such a lame argument. 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:50.659 Say more. 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:51.300 Yeah, say more. 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:52.500 Yeah, yeah. 00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:53.440 Yeah. 00:44:53.440 --> 00:45:05.900 Yeah, well, clearly, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think the short answer is, is that the fullness of deity dwelt in Jesus and he brings us into his fullness. 00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:06.700 Right? 00:45:07.059 --> 00:45:07.900 It's not ours. 00:45:08.179 --> 00:45:08.760 It's his. 00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:09.119 Right? 00:45:09.500 --> 00:45:12.159 But what is the fullness Paul's talking about in that next verse? 00:45:12.820 --> 00:45:14.500 Is it the fullness of deity or something else? 00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:14.880 Right? 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:18.079 I think it's the fullness of the salvation that he's brought for us. 00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:18.340 Right? 00:45:18.340 --> 00:45:20.880 The fullness of what God intends humans to enjoy and have. 00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:21.340 Right? 00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:23.559 Now, here's what's true about that. 00:45:23.680 --> 00:45:23.780 Right? 00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:27.940 That we were created in God's image. 00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:28.500 Right? 00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:32.320 To be co-regents with God in creation. 00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:37.820 That doesn't make us God, but it certainly elevates us to a status that's very wonderful. 00:45:38.180 --> 00:45:38.340 Right? 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:39.880 And undeserved. 00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:42.180 Completely undeserved. 00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:43.059 Yes. 00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:43.940 Yes, yes, yes. 00:45:44.120 --> 00:45:44.280 Good. 00:45:44.700 --> 00:45:46.420 Any other questions or thoughts? 00:45:46.420 --> 00:45:47.420 Yes. 00:45:47.420 --> 00:45:47.980 Yes. 00:45:47.980 --> 00:45:51.340 So, just that, going back to the technical use of firstborn. 00:45:51.780 --> 00:45:51.980 Yeah. 00:45:53.099 --> 00:45:57.180 I guess I'm trying to equate it to something else in my mind. 00:45:57.280 --> 00:46:02.900 I don't like how Jesus takes on the other title, the son of David, even though he teaches 00:46:02.900 --> 00:46:05.039 the crowds, like, how can he be David's son? 00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:05.460 Right, right. 00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:06.639 He's Lord over David. 00:46:06.860 --> 00:46:07.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:14.320 And also how it's kind of murky because Joseph is not Jesus' biological father. 00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:15.360 Right, right. 00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:17.039 I don't know. 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:21.159 I'm, that's something I'm trying to wrap my mind on. 00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:21.699 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:22.699 Christmas is like, wait. 00:46:22.860 --> 00:46:23.079 Right. 00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:23.780 I'm going to be the son of David. 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:25.199 Just like. 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:25.679 Yeah. 00:46:26.179 --> 00:46:28.719 Well, so you see, so a couple things there, Josh. 00:46:28.799 --> 00:46:36.559 So, one is Jesus is the son of David through Joseph by adoption and through Mary by physical 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:37.319 birth, right? 00:46:37.319 --> 00:46:39.000 And you see that in the genealogies. 00:46:40.759 --> 00:46:48.439 Two, I think that the firstborn language there is, it's a title as opposed to a statement 00:46:48.439 --> 00:46:54.279 of his, like, nature, of his nature, right? 00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:57.400 It's a title of his right and his rule to authority. 00:46:58.040 --> 00:47:01.000 When you're, when you're reading through the New Testament, you will see that there 00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:06.680 are, there are times when, like, I think this happens at the beginning of Romans, where 00:47:06.680 --> 00:47:10.420 he was declared to be the son of God with power by his resurrection from the dead. 00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:12.140 He became Lord in Christ. 00:47:12.500 --> 00:47:15.720 Okay, so then it seems like, well, wait, it seems like Jesus wasn't always God. 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:17.080 He sort of became God. 00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:22.560 And what you'll find, again, this gets back to Jesus being fully human and fulfilling all 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:27.460 of those promises that were made about David's son and the true role of humanity, right? 00:47:27.739 --> 00:47:32.360 So, there are things that Jesus accomplishes in his human nature, right? 00:47:32.659 --> 00:47:35.420 Kind of like Hebrews, he became perfect through what he suffered. 00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:37.119 Exactly, exactly, right? 00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:41.079 So, there are ways in which Jesus in his humanity does fulfill those things. 00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:43.579 He is enthroned as king forever, right? 00:47:43.579 --> 00:47:48.980 Right, but that, but, so, so the, so the New Testament can look at Jesus and talk about, 00:47:49.340 --> 00:47:52.840 you know, what he has accomplished, but then also who he is, right? 00:47:53.019 --> 00:47:54.559 So, I mean, so we, it's helpful to have that distinction. 00:47:54.759 --> 00:48:03.799 Yeah, it's like, in his incarnation, because, because the full picture of that passage in 00:48:03.799 --> 00:48:08.719 Hebrews is saying, like, this is your model for, for the path of faith. 00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:09.079 Right. 00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:18.539 When he took on a human nature, he had to then become the God-man, right? 00:48:18.619 --> 00:48:20.779 Like, that's not, that's not right. 00:48:20.779 --> 00:48:25.360 He experienced our full humanity in that experience of suffering. 00:48:25.539 --> 00:48:25.699 Right. 00:48:25.759 --> 00:48:32.039 And even in sort of growing in his moral fiber, we might say, as in his human nature, right? 00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:36.079 Even though in his divine nature, he was perfect and sinless and would always be so. 00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:40.079 And that, that's actually something that was sort of overlooked in my early days. 00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:40.340 Yeah. 00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:41.279 Yeah. 00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:43.579 Yeah, still wrapping my head in it. 00:48:43.799 --> 00:48:44.000 Yeah. 00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:44.360 Yeah. 00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:44.759 Definitely. 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:45.319 But it's. 00:48:45.319 --> 00:48:47.779 We will be for all eternity wrapping our heads around that. 00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:47.980 Yeah. 00:48:47.980 --> 00:48:49.679 For our human souls to know. 00:48:49.699 --> 00:48:50.099 Absolutely. 00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:51.819 Didn't. 00:48:51.819 --> 00:48:52.219 Yeah. 00:48:52.319 --> 00:48:54.739 He didn't have easy mode turned on through life, right? 00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:55.799 Yeah, that's right. 00:48:56.139 --> 00:48:56.579 That's right. 00:48:56.599 --> 00:48:57.119 You know, like. 00:48:57.500 --> 00:48:58.039 Yeah, that's right. 00:48:58.039 --> 00:48:59.960 Because that was a picture of Christ that was painted for me. 00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:01.219 Yeah, that's right. 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:01.900 That's right. 00:49:01.900 --> 00:49:04.519 Like, oh, Jesus, you know, like, he was tempted in every way like we are. 00:49:04.539 --> 00:49:04.679 Right. 00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.819 But, you know, he was God, so like, it really wasn't a big deal to him. 00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:08.259 Right. 00:49:08.339 --> 00:49:09.699 Like, that does undercut. 00:49:09.819 --> 00:49:10.059 Right. 00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:13.239 Like you were saying, the enormous value of the salvation he brought to us. 00:49:13.259 --> 00:49:14.119 Yeah, that's right. 00:49:14.279 --> 00:49:14.599 That's right. 00:49:14.919 --> 00:49:15.159 Yeah. 00:49:15.259 --> 00:49:22.719 In reading the Gospels, you never get the sense that Jesus in his fully human nature has it 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:23.719 just on autopilot. 00:49:24.339 --> 00:49:24.779 Right? 00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:24.860 Yeah. 00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:32.640 And there is a sense that in order to procure for us a perfect righteousness, a perfect human 00:49:32.640 --> 00:49:39.360 righteousness, that Jesus, you know, he did those things in his human nature. 00:49:39.740 --> 00:49:39.940 Right? 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:43.000 He resisted sin and temptation in his human nature. 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:47.440 And in fact, as I'm sure you know, you know, Hebrews will say he was tempted in every way 00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:49.119 that we are except without sin. 00:49:49.219 --> 00:49:50.840 And that's an interesting phrase, right? 00:49:50.860 --> 00:49:51.699 Yet without sin. 00:49:51.739 --> 00:49:57.039 We can sometimes read that and think, well, how did Jesus know what I dealt with if he 00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:57.800 never sinned? 00:49:57.860 --> 00:49:58.000 Right? 00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:03.460 But, you know, it's interesting if you, when you bend something, if any of you are engineers, 00:50:03.699 --> 00:50:08.639 when you bend something, at the point it breaks is where your force on it needs to stop. 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:09.079 Right? 00:50:09.639 --> 00:50:13.099 So if I'm bending a toothpick, I only need to exert a certain amount of force and then 00:50:13.099 --> 00:50:13.539 it snaps. 00:50:13.739 --> 00:50:17.239 If I'm bending a piece of iron, I've really got to bend it. 00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:18.400 And then it probably won't even break. 00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:20.599 But then if I was like superhuman strength, I'd break it. 00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:20.819 Right? 00:50:21.759 --> 00:50:27.980 So Jesus in his human nature experienced the full weight of temptation without ever breaking, 00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:35.279 which means that Jesus experienced a kind of like a tempting that we can't imagine. 00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:36.059 Right. 00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:42.360 So there's a way in which Jesus understood temptation in an even deeper way than we did, 00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:47.000 which is such a great comfort to know that whatever temptations I'm experiencing, our 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:52.119 Savior, our Shepherd can sympathize with that to the thousandth degree. 00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:53.840 On the cross, right? 00:50:54.219 --> 00:50:54.619 Exactly. 00:50:56.139 --> 00:50:56.539 Right. 00:50:56.619 --> 00:50:59.059 So he understands even the guilt and shame of sin as well. 00:50:59.440 --> 00:50:59.619 That's right. 00:50:59.619 --> 00:51:03.440 Yes, Lewis could even say that like on the cross, Christ repented, right? 00:51:03.699 --> 00:51:04.279 Yeah, right. 00:51:04.460 --> 00:51:05.619 Which I don't remember how he did that. 00:51:05.619 --> 00:51:05.900 Yeah. 00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:06.259 Right. 00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:07.440 That was very helpful. 00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:07.840 Right. 00:51:07.940 --> 00:51:08.360 Yeah, good. 00:51:08.799 --> 00:51:09.759 Okay, we should wrap up. 00:51:09.799 --> 00:51:09.980 Okay. 00:51:10.799 --> 00:51:11.900 Let me pray for us. 00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:20.360 Lord Jesus, we give you praise as our God and our King. 00:51:21.980 --> 00:51:27.940 Lord, again, as we began, so we end, asking for your Holy Spirit to help these things, 00:51:27.940 --> 00:51:33.760 not just take up residence in our minds, but that we might understand them with our hearts 00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:38.320 and that we might really trust in you as our Savior and as our King and as our God. 00:51:38.820 --> 00:51:40.240 We pray this in your mighty name, Lord. 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:40.500 Amen. 00:51:41.559 --> 00:51:42.360 All right, friends. 00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:43.159 Thanks for coming. 00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:43.960 We'll see you next week. 00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:44.420 Thank you. 00:51:44.420 --> 00:52:04.119 Okay. 00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:04.680 Okay.