WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.480 All right, so we do this just a few times a year on any time we have a fifth Sunday evening 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:12.880 And so we've asked the congregation to send questions in and we've gotten a number again 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:15.320 And a lot of them are really hard 00:00:16.240 --> 00:00:18.440 So we didn't include those 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:24.440 Some of them were really hard actually we did include them so we'll give it our best shot 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:30.560 But hopefully this will be a time that's helpful to people and that you'll be thinking with us and 00:00:31.520 --> 00:00:37.799 Thinking because these are some of the questions are important some of them are super practical and some not so 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:40.280 So we'll do that together 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:47.439 Brian, why don't you take one minute and tell if maybe if somebody here a guest or somebody doesn't know know you 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:49.960 What's what's your story? 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:57.100 I'm not from these parts my wife and I are from Northern Ireland and I 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.719 Was a minister in the Presbyterian Church there 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:08.319 And after retirement we have two sons who live and work here in Scotland 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.719 We were traveling over a lot so we decided 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:15.879 Before we got like old we would 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.239 We'd moved permanently and we did and 00:01:20.119 --> 00:01:26.479 We had our plan to visit around a few churches in Edinburgh before settling on a fellowship and 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:29.439 came in here our first Sunday and 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:33.599 I had said to Mary now you know what these churches are like 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:42.039 We sit to the back as soon as it's over we escape because you know again and Derek Lamont 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:49.520 Said that Sunday morning look talk to the people beside you get to know you know and we were trapped 00:01:49.520 --> 00:01:51.520 So we've been here ever since 00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:56.520 Love it. Love it. Absolutely. Love it. Yeah, and that's good 00:01:57.240 --> 00:02:04.840 The good news for us, which is bad news for everybody else is that ten minutes into the service our back clock died 00:02:05.800 --> 00:02:07.800 So it still says 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:09.400 540 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:13.120 So that means that until it hits 630. I don't stop 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:19.200 So that's why I say that actually to say I pulled my phone out not to be rude 00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:23.080 But so I can not go over the time so alright question number one 00:02:23.640 --> 00:02:30.159 This is a helpful question. What spiritual lesson have you had to learn that has helped you the most in your Christian walk? 00:02:31.200 --> 00:02:33.200 Brian 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:35.319 Without out 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:36.640 patients 00:02:36.640 --> 00:02:38.640 Yeah, patients 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.079 waiting on God's time and 00:02:41.839 --> 00:02:43.839 I'm not I 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:49.119 Don't have a bad temper. I don't think I'm not hot tempered. I don't lose my temper 00:02:49.839 --> 00:02:51.839 but I 00:02:52.079 --> 00:02:55.959 Have found it. It's got better as the years have gone on 00:02:55.959 --> 00:03:01.039 I have learned to look to scripture and to look to the Lord for help 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:03.599 but 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:11.959 I like the psalmist I just wonder why God doesn't do things at the time that I think would be best and 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:14.879 but of course 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:23.599 After a little while I discover that God's time is actually always best and it's helped and 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:28.199 You know just in in so many different ways and 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:30.400 it 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:31.919 helped me 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.919 learning to be patient 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:36.159 You know not to argue with folk and 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.319 Some folk like to argue about the things of God 00:03:41.279 --> 00:03:44.359 It's a good way of keeping them at arms length and 00:03:45.519 --> 00:03:52.479 If you're drawn into those arguments, you know, they just go round and round and I've learned that it's best to say well 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:57.439 Look, you know, we're maybe not getting anywhere. Let's let's just leave it and 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:03.280 And and it's also and I see helped me to 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:06.079 enjoy the Lord 00:04:06.079 --> 00:04:11.800 more and I found when I was younger as a Christian and 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:18.639 I should maybe say I didn't become a Christian until I was in my 20s and then 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.000 You know was married and me and I had our first son 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.560 when God called me to the ministry and 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:35.319 You know, I thought well far better if I'd been converted as a teenager and you know, it called me then 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:39.519 You know that that instead of having a wife and such 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:42.639 But of course all the things I learned through that 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:50.120 Were so useful in the ministry that actually again another instance of God's time 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:55.840 I'm being better than what I had originally thought and also 00:04:59.879 --> 00:05:03.639 When you learn to accept that things are happening 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:08.560 You can't change them. You're waiting for God to do something 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:13.000 Actually, you can enjoy each day. You know, you're not 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.519 So that that that would be my 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:20.519 and 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.000 Obviously, there's so many scriptures that that help you and 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:28.240 because 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:34.839 So many folk in the Bible you see their story where they're led Abraham Moses Joshua Daniel 00:05:36.039 --> 00:05:38.039 Jesus says follow me and 00:05:39.359 --> 00:05:43.560 but the one the one story that helped me and 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:47.800 I'd have to say strengthened me was 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.639 Do you remember when Abraham was an old man Sarah had died? 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:57.720 He was living amongst the Canaanites. He didn't want his son Isaac to marry 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.480 Some woman from from amongst the Canaanites 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:07.000 So he sent a servant back to Nahor to find a woman and 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:12.000 the servant eventually after prayer is led to Rebecca and 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.000 And he says I 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:21.639 Knows that Rebecca is the woman and he says I being in the way the Lord led me and 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.160 so I find it right if I 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:31.160 Walking as closely as I can in the way with Jesus 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.879 He will lead me in his time in his way 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:38.000 So that was the lesson for me. What? 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:40.519 Yeah 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.599 This is a hard question. I was thinking about it earlier. I think 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:48.919 Think I'm gonna say just what what I'm thinking about most right now 00:06:49.719 --> 00:06:51.399 on this score and 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:54.560 I think it's this I think that I've been thinking a lot about how 00:06:55.159 --> 00:07:03.039 The entirety of the Christian life is really just learning to get your heart to believe in the presence of God 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:06.839 That 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:13.039 Really that that's the whole of what Christianity is and that God is present 00:07:13.719 --> 00:07:18.439 That he's really here. He's here in the worship space with us 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:21.120 He's Omni president 00:07:22.159 --> 00:07:24.759 In every way and of course presence 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:29.479 It's totally qualified by being in union with Jesus 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:33.239 So I guess I've been thinking about that a lot 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:39.000 We don't we don't believe in Christianity as you know Brian that there are thin places 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.160 You know a lot of religions will talk about thin places in the world 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.079 Places where you can go and get closer to the divine 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:52.840 So you think about us the standing stones throughout Scotland those were erected to be thin places places where you could go and get closer 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:00.879 To whatever deity there might be but God is present and then you know that just makes me think that whether we're washing dishes 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:04.800 You know you're washing dishes God is present. You're by yourself 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:07.920 at home God is present you're 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.879 Trying to get the kids to quiet down in the car God is present 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:15.800 state a student a 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:23.639 State home mother God is present in your vocational life and everywhere. So I think that's just what's been on my mind and heart lately 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:26.240 Okay 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.000 Shall we continue we've got six seven of these okay, so number two 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:39.279 This one this it immediately gets harder. Okay, what really happens to people when they die and will actually happen when Jesus returns 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:42.120 So I'll start on this one 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:48.960 You know we all here today. It doesn't you don't have to be a Christian to believe that death is a great enemy 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:53.759 Death is a death is a great enemy for everybody. Nobody wants to die 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:58.159 We all fear death to some degree and death is our enemy 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:05.679 So one of the things I think we have to say is what Paul says that what happens with we when we face death and when we begin 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:10.799 To die and then when we die is that death loses its sting 00:09:11.439 --> 00:09:13.879 It doesn't lose the fact that it's bad 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:16.879 death is always bad and 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:22.519 even in the state of death where we leave our bodies 00:09:23.319 --> 00:09:25.199 To be with the Lord 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.560 We still in that state or in a death condition 00:09:29.400 --> 00:09:31.680 It's not what it ought to be 00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:34.160 It's not what we were made for 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.680 disembodiment is bad and so 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:42.560 What really happens to people when they die well, you know, we're disembodied and 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.120 And simultaneously for those who believe in Christ 00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:54.040 Who are united to Jesus Jesus us today you will be with me at the time of your death 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.039 and so 00:09:57.719 --> 00:10:05.000 The reason these questions go together is because we've got to in our in our Christian understanding of death in the afterlife 00:10:05.079 --> 00:10:07.079 understand that there's a difference in 00:10:07.599 --> 00:10:10.120 life after death now and 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:16.360 Eternal life when Christ returns that the resurrection is future 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:22.959 And so what actually happens when Jesus returns is that God puts bodies and souls back together again 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:26.759 And he condescends into the space that is earth and he 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:33.639 Brings the true and final kingdom, which is a physical kingdom a spiritual kingdom. There's no dichotomy there 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:36.920 That's why in Revelation 22 we see 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:41.240 God coming down the city coming down not humans going up 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:48.000 The only thing that humans do and going up is they their bodies come up from the grave and they're reunited to their souls 00:10:48.920 --> 00:10:50.759 now I 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.720 Think the questioner is probably wanting me to say something more about 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.759 Heaven and hell a little more so let me say something 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:06.960 The first thing when you're I think and then I'll let you talk you fix it. Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:14.399 The first thing is that when you're talking about heaven and hell, it's very important to be modest 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:22.919 To know that actually the Bible speaks to us of heaven and hell in metaphors and 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:27.159 That doesn't mean that heaven and hell is not a reality. No not at all 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:33.919 It absolutely is but the way that we come to understand what it means is metaphorical in scripture oftentimes 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:39.039 It's through pictures and images. So even when Jesus is talking about hell go henna 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:42.799 He we know that he's talking about a real place in Jerusalem 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:50.079 He's talking about a space in Jerusalem that looks the trash dump of the city where little fires were burning like any city 00:11:50.079 --> 00:11:53.559 dump does to burn the garbage up the rubbish up and 00:11:55.079 --> 00:11:58.479 He's saying that's hell. It was also a spot of 00:12:00.479 --> 00:12:06.000 Babylonian early Babylonian pagan worship in the time prior to Christ the same place 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:09.199 So he's got all sorts of things that he means there 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:17.960 Here's where I'm gonna I'm gonna say something and not be able to spend time on it. Okay, so 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:20.560 So sorry 00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:28.400 But hell actually in the New Testament is a word that's not used except for at the second coming of Jesus 00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:31.520 So 00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:33.520 the way the Gospels talk about 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:40.439 Life after death for a person who doesn't believe the gospel who's gonna be separated from God is not hell 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:44.319 Until the resurrection from the dead occurs 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:52.639 Instead it talks about the place of the righteous dead and the unrighteous dead what the Gospels call Hades 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:57.360 and that's a word that was borrowed from the Greeks of the time and 00:12:58.360 --> 00:12:59.840 We see 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:03.600 That in all sorts of ways throughout the Gospels if we had time we could show it 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:10.440 That's why in the Apostles Creed we confess not that God that Christ at his death descends into hell 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:15.080 But the original word is that he descended into Hades the domain of the dead 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:20.639 And that question is coming actually somebody asked that exact question about Christ descent 00:13:21.560 --> 00:13:22.639 and 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:28.400 Then in the book of Revelation when Christ raises when God raises all bodies up from the dead 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.799 It then says now 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:39.079 There's either the kingdom of God on the physical creation earth renewed or there's held the lake of fire in Gehenna 00:13:40.199 --> 00:13:46.120 And that's a place that we're only given metaphors for it's a place of being separated from God 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:51.720 It's miserable and at the same time. It's exactly what a person seeks when they reject Christ 00:13:53.319 --> 00:13:58.079 So it's a very difficult thing to talk about and we would really need to spend a lot of time to talk about it 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:03.040 Well, but those are a few of the distinctions. I think you've got to hold on to when you talk about it 00:14:04.680 --> 00:14:07.000 Yeah, the only thing I'd say 00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:14.200 For those of us here Christians John Bunyan has a wonderful image of what happens to us when we die and 00:14:15.560 --> 00:14:19.560 The character he talks about is Mr. Valiant for truth and 00:14:20.400 --> 00:14:23.240 He says, you know when it was noise to broad 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:31.080 that Mr. Valiant for truth was summons on the day that he was to go hence a 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:34.360 Great crowd accompanied him to the Riverside 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.600 And as he stepped in they heard him say oh death 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:46.639 Where is I sting and as he went deeper? I heard him say grave. Where is thy victory? 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:47.799 and 00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:49.799 so he passed over and 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:57.039 All the trumpets sounded for him on the other side and I just think that's 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:02.000 Let me add a sentence just because I forgot to say the most important thing 00:15:02.319 --> 00:15:08.079 And that's that what happens to us when Jesus returns and what happens to us when we die 00:15:08.199 --> 00:15:12.079 The most important thing for the Christian is that we see Jesus Christ 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:20.680 So I don't want to leave the question without saying that that the entire point of our existence is to see our God and 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:26.520 That's what we're headed towards. That's that's the entire point. So good. All right. Well 00:15:28.040 --> 00:15:30.720 Here we are with a question that's 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:38.680 Related the third question when the thief on the cross came to faith Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:45.199 How could that be if it was three days before Jesus rose again from abandonment in hell? 00:15:46.599 --> 00:15:48.599 so 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.000 From the very beginning of the church 00:15:57.159 --> 00:16:01.439 Christians have been trying to summarize the fundamentals of the theater 00:16:02.079 --> 00:16:04.079 into creeds and 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:06.519 catechisms and 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:09.639 probably about the fifth century and a 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.480 number of these came together and 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.879 What's been called the Apostles Creed? 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:24.000 And not that the Apostles produced it, but it was kind of a summary of what the Apostles had taught and 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.079 these were thought and it's a very succinct and 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:31.720 Very clear 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:38.279 Sitting forth of what Christians have believed I believe in God the Father Almighty 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.600 And then it's only some Jesus Christ our Lord 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.600 Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost? 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.920 part of the Virgin Mary suffered underpunches pilot was crucified dead and buried and 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:53.759 descended into hell 00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.519 Now that final phrase is wrong 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:02.039 Jesus did not descend into hell 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:10.319 When he said to the thief on the cross today you will be with me in paradise. He meant exactly that 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:16.839 When he said it is finished he meant exactly that 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.319 his work of atonement and 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.759 His place in God's plan of salvation for us 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:29.599 Was finished so what actually happened was 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.000 His body was placed in the grave 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.400 But his spirit his soul went to be with his heavenly Father 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:40.480 to return on that 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.759 Three days later on that first Easter morning to be reunited 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.400 with that resurrection body and 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.119 Now 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:59.319 Unfortunately, there are lots of myths about you know, we all know them and some people believe some of them and so 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:01.319 and this is 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:09.799 Unfortunately, one of those mistaken ideas that has come down through the years to us that Jesus 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.119 went to hell and suffered and 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.319 Abandonment from God, but he did all that on the cross 00:18:17.479 --> 00:18:20.959 Reformation Sunday John Calvin says, you know 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:23.680 Jesus and on the cross 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.440 Jesus and endured hell 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:33.519 Because he said, you know my god my god, why have you forsaken me? 00:18:34.120 --> 00:18:37.200 so so that that that was the punishment and 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:40.160 and 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:41.600 so I 00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:46.600 Can understand why folk can't can be confused because it would be confusing 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:52.199 Some folk who still hold to that mistaken view that Jesus went to hell 00:18:53.439 --> 00:18:57.240 Try to argue and they say look when Jesus said 00:18:57.919 --> 00:19:00.879 truly truly I say to you today and 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.719 You will be with me in paradise. They try to make the today 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.719 refer to the truly truly rather than the phrase 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:18.000 You will be with me in paradise, but that doesn't work. It's not the right way 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:24.360 It's it's it's just it's just grammatically doesn't doesn't work in the in the Greek at all and 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:27.039 so 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:29.600 there's not really a paradox here and 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.400 Jesus went immediately to be with his heavenly father and then was reunited with what and 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:43.560 And pastor Lee that's an encouragement from because that's what's gonna happen to us. We'll be reunited with our resurrection 00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:47.720 Body when Jesus comes again. Yes, so just one thing 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.640 fantastic answer 00:19:50.800 --> 00:19:55.680 So when I said a minute ago that the the Apostles Creed language originally was he descended into Hades 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.500 That's exactly the important distinction right not hell 00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:04.880 But Hades the term means into the place where souls go after they die 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:09.040 His soul went into the realm of the dead of dead souls 00:20:09.040 --> 00:20:12.960 which is with God the father in in the kingdom of heaven and 00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:18.120 I think that first Peter first Peter 3 is where this whole question comes up, right? 00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:22.240 Yeah, and I think first Peter 3 just to add one more thing is suggesting that 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.680 In in the domain where souls dwell in the heavenly life 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:33.920 Where Christ's soul was separated from his body for three days he by book by being there 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.759 According first Peter 3 pronounced his victory to the captives meaning 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:42.200 By just simply entering into the heavenly realm 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:48.080 He was preaching his victory over death to all those who have been captured by death 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:53.960 And first Peter 3 when you read it, it's gonna give you language. It's very confusing, but I think that's what it's saying 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.320 So yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, really good 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:00.039 Okay, good question number four 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.039 Is 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.680 Is democracy compatible with Christianity? 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.639 So yes, it definitely is 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:13.480 and I think in fact that 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:20.119 Christianity leads us to a political theology that calls for democracy and 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.440 That has been the majority 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.960 Protestant position for quite some time now. Why would that be? Okay? 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:33.440 Well, we believe in the doctrine of the image of God so that every single person is 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:40.120 Named by God to be unique and important and loved and full of gifts and 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.680 Democracy has an accent and its political orientation 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:51.600 Towards everyone towards the people towards recognizing the image of God in every single person every single individual 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:57.559 On the flip side it also tells us Christianity also says to us that every single state 00:21:57.959 --> 00:22:03.480 Needs to know its relative power and its relative authority that no Emperor 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:08.599 No king needs to everything that they have the kind of authority to dictate the moral order 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:11.959 To that they that they need we say we pray 1st 00:22:11.959 --> 00:22:17.599 22 that the kings the emperors the presidents the prime ministers would submit to God and 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:26.199 Know that God is the ultimate authority not them and so that leads us over time to gather a logic where God says 00:22:26.439 --> 00:22:28.439 everybody's really important and 00:22:28.919 --> 00:22:30.919 God's power 00:22:30.919 --> 00:22:35.679 Relativizes the state which means that we need to seek states that are people 00:22:35.919 --> 00:22:40.519 That are governed by the people that come from the bottom up not the top down now 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.279 There's one more idea here that we might this is a big subject, right? 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.599 You said you would answer. Yeah. Yeah, so 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:49.960 Yeah 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:51.960 Let me give you two more reasons one 00:22:52.720 --> 00:23:00.319 On top of the image of God the relative authority of any state is also the universality of sinfulness 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.680 So total depravity everybody is corrupted 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:06.440 Nobody needs absolute power 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:08.319 Nobody does 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:12.879 Almost always only bad comes from that unless you have you know the one time in history 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.680 I think where we could have given it to somebody was probably Queen Elizabeth, you know, but 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:19.800 Other than that nobody needs absolute power 00:23:20.760 --> 00:23:24.880 Because we do bad things whether we're sinners and so that leads us toward more towards democracy 00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:33.120 the final thing I'll say and this is a bigger discussion, but I think that Christianity leads us towards a view of 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:35.840 Society 00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:39.960 Where God has actually given us all the major? 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:45.960 Institutions that society needs and he's given them to us directly himself 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:52.279 So he doesn't in other words the family doesn't exist because the state wants the family 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:58.000 You know marriage doesn't exist because the state said marriage should exist or not exist 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.160 None of these things are products of civil determination 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:09.840 Actually, they're all products of God's direct creation of these institutions and family is actually one of the the original 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:12.519 Marriage is at the very beginning. It's prior to any state 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:18.799 So it's always been the case that each of these institutions answers directly to God 00:24:19.879 --> 00:24:21.879 before they answer to any state and 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:25.519 That means that the state has a sphere of authority 00:24:26.439 --> 00:24:28.839 But doesn't have authority over everything and 00:24:29.919 --> 00:24:37.159 Democracy actually lends to help us see that a little bit better that that families need to be left alone unless 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.160 They break justice 00:24:40.040 --> 00:24:44.360 The state is the sphere of justice, but they're not the spirit of the family 00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:46.360 They're not the sphere of the church the church has its own 00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:52.880 Remit and these things are directly given by God with their own authority their own institutions their own power structures 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.519 And so the state actually has to know its place 00:24:56.360 --> 00:24:58.400 Society's at its best when the state knows its place 00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:07.680 I think and I think Christianity leads us towards that and that plays out in some form of democracy 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.200 What do you think you want to say anything no all right yeah, no government 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.720 government by consent 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:21.000 You know rather than as you say a very authoritarian, you know one person picked dates or the very 00:25:21.600 --> 00:25:25.680 Let's say fair that everybody just knows what they want where it's anarchy 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.799 but where there's discussion and compromise and 00:25:30.600 --> 00:25:37.640 a desire for what the greatest good of the greatest number you know that that that's what 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:43.880 Democracy aims at and it can be as good or as bad. Yeah, as the individuals 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:51.320 Yeah, we want we want the society to seek the common good and democracy tends to emphasize that now 00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:57.279 We are not in any way talking about a political party or anything like that. So don't email me 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.919 Please do actually to talk about it more but but no no 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:08.559 We're not putting our stamp on anything but but the broad idea of democracy 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.720 All right. Well next question number five 00:26:12.439 --> 00:26:15.559 How do you think about the doctrine of election? 00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:18.119 pastorally 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:23.279 Am I starting there are you you didn't say okay, I'll start 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:27.679 Yeah 00:26:27.679 --> 00:26:33.359 So this is a tough question and but an important question and so let's let's think about it together for a minute 00:26:33.919 --> 00:26:37.119 What is the person mean by the doctrine of election? 00:26:37.719 --> 00:26:44.359 The doctrine of election comes from Ephesians 1 4 and 1 11 and a bunch of other places in the Bible and it says that 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:46.399 God 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:49.960 has from all eternity known and named 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:58.440 Those that will be his people that will be his church and it's very difficult to get around that because the Bible says it so clearly and 00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:01.000 so many times over and over again and 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:09.000 It can it can be really difficult to think about and talk about because it feels as if there's an injustice in that 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:16.000 That if God knows his people from the beginning of history beginning of eternity, which has no beginning no time at all 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.039 then 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:21.200 Then what about those that aren't his people and is that really fair? 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:29.759 a few things on the pastoral John Calvin when he writes his great book about theology the institutes he actually 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.480 Famously sticks this idea more towards the back not the front 00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:42.440 So people think of Calvinists right and they think of them as only thinking about this election and predestination and when you read Calvin 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:49.640 He he doesn't actually spend a ton of time on this and he puts it very much at the back of the book not the front of the book 00:27:50.360 --> 00:27:53.240 And there's a real reason for that and that this is because again 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.960 This is an area where we have to have modesty, but it's also an area pastorally 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:02.960 I think that drives us to say this we need to expect not to understand God 00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:08.320 you know if we if we ever look at the scriptures and we start to 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:16.000 Say that we're totally okay with everything they say and none of it hits us strangely and none of it hits us hard then actually 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.000 I think we've come to be in a pretty bad place 00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:23.919 Because the what the Bible if it's if the Bible's God's word then it has to have the power to 00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:28.439 Critique every single culture in history. It has to have that power 00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:35.119 It has we have to expect that if we're sinners that the Bible would come in and say something to every single culture 00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:40.599 That hits them in a raw way that says I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure if I can handle that 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.000 but we're talking about God and 00:28:43.719 --> 00:28:45.719 So of course there's gonna be 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.479 utter and radical radical meaning at root 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:54.919 Divine mystery when it comes to the power and the providence and the elect election 00:28:55.719 --> 00:29:01.159 Sovereignty of the living God and so I guess I don't want to say a lot about it 00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:06.000 but what I want to say is just simply that I think it helps us to 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:12.160 To understand the weightiness of God's divine majesty 00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:17.560 When we consider how difficult it is for us to possibly conceive of even what this means 00:29:18.360 --> 00:29:20.360 and that's a good thing and 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:23.880 The last thing I'll say is this 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:29.760 Jesus Christ's death and resurrection is sufficient for the salvation of the world 00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:36.200 So Jesus Christ has purchased has died and 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:44.720 And his death is is sufficient to cover the sins of anyone who will repent and come to faith 00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:49.440 And so when we put this idea together with what Jesus has done 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:55.920 We say that Jesus Christ death is sufficient for all efficient for some 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:04.400 Meaning that Christ's death is going to be used in some people's lives to change them and transform them and 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:07.160 To bring them into the family of God not everybody 00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:15.559 And yet know that Jesus Christ death covers the sins of the whole world 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:24.159 And so that means that our job is simply to go into the world and know that we can preach and teach and tell the gospel to anybody and 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:28.319 That they if they repent and they confess like we saw this morning and say 00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:34.599 I'm a sinner and I say what God says about Jesus then they are part of the family of God and that's it 00:30:35.639 --> 00:30:42.839 and and so the first is an utterly grand divine mystery and the second is our marching orders and 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:45.519 And I think that's what we've got to lean into 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:51.000 Yeah, I think that's a great question because 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:53.279 it 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.439 You know ask about the doctrine of election pastor a lie and 00:30:58.639 --> 00:31:00.639 Certainly my experience 00:31:01.959 --> 00:31:03.959 In college 00:31:03.959 --> 00:31:06.639 in the ministry with students and 00:31:07.919 --> 00:31:10.319 Wherever it's discussed, you know 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:19.799 The arguments are like bullets, you know, they're designed to do damage and to do harm and I think it's 00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:25.679 Significant that the apostle Paul who maybe deals mostly 00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.799 He's the one who deals with it most often in the New Testament and 00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:34.119 You know, he doesn't make a big issue of it and 00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:39.399 He's not ashamed of it. He's not embarrassed by it 00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:40.840 and 00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:46.160 he simply accepts it and declares it as the truth of God and 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:54.600 You know, there's there's mystery in it. We know that and we don't understand 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:59.080 as Corey said, you know, it shouldn't make us complacent and 00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:03.640 What it really ought to do is is 00:32:04.280 --> 00:32:07.680 To make us on all of this great God 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:09.680 you know because 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:13.640 this doctrine of Alex touches on the kind of 00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:17.080 inmost secrets of God's will and 00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:24.440 We're given a glimpse. We're told a little bit, but the rest is hidden from us and 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:31.320 That should be okay, that should be we should you know, but say, you know, how great is our God 00:32:32.560 --> 00:32:34.560 But she also humble us 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:44.319 That God has chosen us, you know for for no good reason that that we can think of and 00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:52.960 You know, I've heard folks say I will look there must be something, you know some little bit in 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.200 why he chooses this person and not that person and and 00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:04.000 There maybe is a danger there if I could say you do that wonderful parable 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:10.440 Jesus told about the Pharisee and the public and and the Pharisees in the temple and Lord 00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:17.799 I thank you that I'm not like other men and the public and you know, he won't even lift up his eyes to pray and 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:21.039 The point of that is, you know 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.120 Jesus wants us to see ourselves there 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:27.119 Are we like 00:33:27.879 --> 00:33:31.799 The Pharisee are we comparing ourselves with other people? 00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:38.919 Because you know, I'm not all that great a person. I know that but you know, I don't beat my wife 00:33:38.919 --> 00:33:40.919 I don't fill in my taxes 00:33:42.919 --> 00:33:47.119 You know, I'm kind to animals and little children and 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:54.000 And but that's not who I compare myself I compare myself with Jesus and I feel ashamed of the person that I am 00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:00.039 That's what that's what the public and dead and that's why he wouldn't even lift up his head 00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:06.719 I think in this doctor we have to be so careful pastorally that we just do not ever think 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:11.039 We've been chosen and because there was anything in us 00:34:11.319 --> 00:34:16.319 But I think as well as humbling with the people that I'm talking about 00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:20.480 Well as humbling us. I think it it's a brilliant assurance 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:27.360 That because God has chosen us and has drawn us to himself 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:35.800 We have the assurance that even when we fall we will be lifted up and accept it again 00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:39.200 It's I 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:46.239 I think pastor I would think pastorally Corey. That's the way to think of election 00:34:46.839 --> 00:34:53.279 pastorally rather than a theological I mean IWT was there the American writer. He said 00:34:54.119 --> 00:35:02.199 Delving into the mysteries of predestination and election may make theologians, but it won't make sense 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:05.679 And I think there's a warning there 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:07.679 No, yeah 00:35:07.919 --> 00:35:10.440 Okay, so we're this we're about out of time 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:18.119 So let's let's try to do the last two together and because they fit together and we'll just right do them quickly and they are 00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:23.159 What are some of the most important books that shaped your view of the Christian life outside the Bible? 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:27.480 And then what is your go-to book of the Bible your favorite book of the Bible? 00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.159 So a couple fun ones 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:32.159 to end on yeah 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:39.440 Do you want to start with I start I've got okay, um, I've got four well five really 00:35:40.319 --> 00:35:42.319 Mary my wife asked me this morning 00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:48.039 What were the questions tonight? And this we only one I told her about the books of the Bible 00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:53.000 I said would be there are the the books that have shaped your view says would be there all night 00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:56.879 You won't really you won't really we all have stacks of books and 00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:02.880 And basic Christianity by John Stott that was the book I was given 00:36:03.720 --> 00:36:07.099 Before I became a Christian when I was trying to understand it and 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:10.599 Absolutely brilliant 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:15.240 For people who are not Christians. I've given away so many copies of it and 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:20.920 Fundamentalism and the word of God by J. I packer 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:27.960 I heard him speak on the authority of scripture when I was a student and then got his book and it's 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:30.800 Absolutely, it will convince you 00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:37.039 If you need convincing that the scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the word of God 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:40.079 And they must be your authority in everything 00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.039 The Pilgrims progress by John Bunyan 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:54.679 Next to the Bible my favorite book there are folks who think that you know tall king and the Lord of the Rings and those I 00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:01.679 Mean that they're just nursery rhymes compared to pilgrims progress. You know it is absolutely 00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:07.079 Brilliant and if you're getting a copy for Christmas for people that you love 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.679 Get the banner of truth copy because it has the Bible text in the margin and then finally 00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:17.799 and the knowledge of the holy by a w tozer 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.559 it's a book about the attributes of God and 00:37:22.359 --> 00:37:26.159 and and it is phenomenal and 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:35.239 It would just help help anybody so much and he begins and finishes each chapter on each attribute 00:37:35.879 --> 00:37:42.599 with a prayer which I have personally just found and the other been a final one 00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.920 I was going to say was and it's it's from 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:52.079 Back home and it's the church hymnary and it was produced in 1898 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:56.199 Actually along with the church of Scotland, but I think mostly 00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:02.000 Presbyterian church in Ireland did it and it contains all the metric of Psalms 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.119 nearly seven day 00:38:06.279 --> 00:38:10.599 Bible passages paraphrased and over 700 hymns and 00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:14.000 And when I find myself stuck 00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:18.199 You know I'm dry 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:21.119 Gods far away. I 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.440 Need reassurance. I need help with my prayers 00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:28.239 Going going to the hymns and the Psalms 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.880 They're just they're just brilliant 00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:35.719 So that answers my last the last question Corey the book of Psalms 00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:38.639 the Samas open their hearts and 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:40.239 I 00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:42.239 See myself there 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.440 It's good. So my books are 00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:51.039 Some of the you know tough to answer tough to answer I 00:38:51.799 --> 00:38:54.699 think I want to say in terms of learning to 00:38:56.440 --> 00:39:01.039 Learning the crypt the best book I think I've ever read on the Christian life is Augustine's Confessions and 00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:04.679 then for 00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:12.319 Theology for growing and knowledge of God. I think the book I would recommend the most is Herman boving's wonderful works of God 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:18.440 Which is I think the best popular theology that's ever been written in a single volume 00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:22.559 So I think the Augustine's Confessions Herman boving's wonderful works of God 00:39:26.359 --> 00:39:30.319 For helping me understand helping anybody understand 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:35.600 The modern mind and how Christianity relates to the secular world 00:39:36.680 --> 00:39:38.680 Tim Keller's making sense of God 00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:41.900 Will I think really help everybody? 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:49.000 Awaken to exactly what the world we live in is like and what the kind of way we can talk to people that will help them to 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:51.800 Understand why Christianity still matters? 00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:56.680 so I would really point people towards that one and then 00:39:57.840 --> 00:39:59.200 lastly I 00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:07.399 Think a amazing place for anybody to go start kind of spending some time reading is in the world of really just how to read the 00:40:07.399 --> 00:40:09.839 Bible better and so I would commend 00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:13.399 Anything in the realm of what we call biblical theology 00:40:13.399 --> 00:40:18.559 So how to read the Bible through the lens of Jesus Christ from Genesis to Revelation 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:26.839 The book that threw me into that that I love so much is Stephen Dempster's dominion and dynasty a 00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:33.960 Wonderful book that I encountered in seminary, but there's all sorts like even Graham Golds where these 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.440 Trilogy on reading Christ in all of scripture 00:40:38.120 --> 00:40:41.320 So something in those realms would be the books of tonight 00:40:42.120 --> 00:40:44.120 tonight's books 00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:45.800 I 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:47.120 Don't know 00:40:47.120 --> 00:40:51.640 So right now right now my favorite Bible book is Leviticus in the Old Testament 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.660 Because I'm reading a wonderful book about Leviticus from Michael Morales 00:40:55.659 --> 00:41:01.679 Leviticus is an amazing gospel book and then 00:41:02.619 --> 00:41:04.379 Ephesians 00:41:04.379 --> 00:41:06.379 because Ephesians 00:41:06.379 --> 00:41:09.779 Ephesians casts our entire theology 00:41:10.219 --> 00:41:16.299 Through the the coming again of Christ the renewal of creation and then works backwards 00:41:16.299 --> 00:41:23.619 And I really have found that to be a wonderful way of doing it from Paul so right now this too. All right 00:41:23.619 --> 00:41:26.619 Thanks for putting up with us. Let me pray for us Lord 00:41:26.619 --> 00:41:32.059 We give thanks for your church family and this church family and 00:41:32.980 --> 00:41:39.940 There are a lot of people here Lord that you know that are are seeking to grow and to think and to know more of you 00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:43.579 And love you and so I just asked that you would bless us with inquisitive minds 00:41:44.259 --> 00:41:46.659 and give give 00:41:46.659 --> 00:41:55.339 The leaders and each and everybody here the the ability and the hunger to sit alongside each other and to talk and to talk about 00:41:55.339 --> 00:42:00.139 these things and to answer questions and to encourage and exhort and 00:42:00.139 --> 00:42:16.420 So we just ask for that spirit among us and we pray these things in Christ's name Amen. Oh, yeah