WEBVTT

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 So this is Ministry to Therapeutically Minded People. Don't you love my vivid titles?

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!

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 I was there one time years ago, I just stopped because I was looking at something and I just

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 stopped by myself and there was an old man who came up to me when I was there and he said

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 I'm a fair taker. He said, what are you looking for? He said, I'll show you that but let me

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 show you something else. So he took me to this grave and he would have found it otherwise.

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 And the guy, the employee told me, he said, I've been here for 50 years. I've been here

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 50 years. And so he took me to this grave and it was the grave of the guy named William

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 Han, William H. H. N. And the gravestone said, all it said was I told you I was sick. That

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 was the grave of the grave. And so, he said, well, Bill Han was a guy who lived in the area

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 of the grave. And his family owned this plot. And he was a hypochondriac. And as he would

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 come and he would sit in the family plot with a folding chair and he would just sit here and

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 he would just lament because he kept thinking he was dying and his family wouldn't agree. And he said, he did this for years.

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 He said, well, I'm sort of with this. If I got six blinds, that's all, you know, and he would never die. And so, and so eventually, they got to be in a relationship where he said, listen, I want you to make sure that all my tombstones are, I told you I was sick. Because one of these times, I'm going to be right.

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 And he was, right? The point is, we are in self-incessant self-diagnosticians. We love diagnosing ourselves. It's, again, a very Western mindset. Self-orientation. We diagnose everything about us. We hack ourselves.

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 We're self-assessors. We're self-hackers. We're self-diagnosers. We're attracted to personality tests. We're attracted to life coaches, to self-understanding through talking. We're enamored with influencers. Am I healthy? Am I smart? Am I socially aware? Am I too aware? Am I conservative enough? Am I too conservative? Am I emotionally healthy? Am I emotionally at risk?

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 Am IOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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 over racial and ethnic,

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 and particularly

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 age, generational

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 lines. And we talk about things.

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 We talk about a lot of stuff.

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 But we did an episode on fitness.

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 Because Jared's a

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 college wrestler.

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 And

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 we learned that

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 a 30-year-old and a

00:04:05.200 --> 00:04:07.439
 65-year-old have very different

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 ideas of what it means to be fit.

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 And what it takes to

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 get there. So he was describing his workout

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 routine, and I was describing mine.

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 And it was just, you know.

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 So we shouldn't be surprised

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 when our friends,

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 our family members,

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 reach for ways

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 to understand themselves

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 that are different than ours.

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 And sometimes

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 people who reach for those

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 understandings reach into the

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 therapeutic world.

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 So I've said that we're all

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 psychologically

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 oriented.

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 That's the worldview that we have.

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 But there are people

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 in our lives,

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 and it could be us,

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 who in some sense

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 have really kind of

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 gone into the world

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 of therapy and have found

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 the meaning and

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 self-diagnosis

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 from the therapeutic world.

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 And so we as Christians,

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 if you're tracking

00:05:08.419 --> 00:05:09.659
 what I'm saying today,

00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:11.459
 need to recognize

00:05:11.459 --> 00:05:12.879
 that that world

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 doesn't easily

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 translate toward

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 a biblical understanding

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 of life,

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 and therefore translate

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 into a real hope

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 in the gospel.

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 It's a

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 false

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 gospel.

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 And it

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 presents false

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 hopes,

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 and false

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 savings,

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 and false

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 sanctification,

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 and false

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 eternities.

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 And so

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 we have to recognize

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 that,

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 but some people

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 who are Christians,

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 well-meaning,

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 in their search for

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 how to make sense

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 of who they are,

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 what they're dealing

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 with,

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 what's going on in life,

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 they find the

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 therapeutic world

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 giving them answers,

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 and those answers

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 seem to fit

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 their experience.

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 So how do we

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 relate to this?

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 How do we

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 minister to people

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 who seem more

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 comfortable with

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 therapeutic diagnosis

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 than biblical diagnosis

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 in their self-understanding?

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 I was talking to Sean

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 for a second there,

00:06:07.660 --> 00:06:08.280
 and we were talking

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 about how do you

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 deal with somebody

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 like this,

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 and do you just

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 confront that language?

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 And I,

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 and I,

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 and I'm going to

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 share this.

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 My experience

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 is that people

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 who use therapeutic

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 language in a

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 self-descriptive language

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 or even have a

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 diagnosis that they,

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 that they hold to

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 will only tend to

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 defend that if they

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 feel like their,

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 their,

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 their understanding

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 is being threatened.

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 They don't have a

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 depth of understanding

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 of what they're saying.

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 They have something

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 that makes sense

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 to them,

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 like we do with

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 everything.

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 What do we do

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 when we do,

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 when we do internet

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 searches?

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 How many people

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 go on an internet

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 search looking for

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 something that's

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 different than

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 what they think?

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 Nobody does.

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 Internet search is

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 about self-validation.

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 We go and refine

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 something that fits

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 what we already

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 think to validate

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 what we're thinking.

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 That's proven

00:07:00.780 --> 00:07:01.460
 study after study

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 after study.

00:07:02.980 --> 00:07:04.300
 90% of the people

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 who do internet

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 searches are actually

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 validating something

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 they already think

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 that they didn't get

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 from anywhere.

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 They just think it

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 and the internet

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 supports it.

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 That's what happens

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 and so,

00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:15.580
 so people can

00:07:15.580 --> 00:07:16.680
 have these ideas

00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:17.300
 about things

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 that they feel

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 very supported

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 but they're

00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:19.620
 really not that

00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:20.399
 deep in their

00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:21.060
 self-understanding

00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:21.980
 so we don't

00:07:21.980 --> 00:07:22.860
 necessarily want

00:07:22.860 --> 00:07:23.139
 to just,

00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:24.379
 that's wrong,

00:07:24.500 --> 00:07:24.759
 you've got to

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 stop thinking

00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:25.819
 like that.

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 All that's going

00:07:27.019 --> 00:07:28.040
 to do is create

00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:29.019
 antagonism

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 and not really

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 help us serve

00:07:31.779 --> 00:07:32.219
 somebody.

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 So I want to

00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:33.939
 talk a bit about

00:07:33.939 --> 00:07:34.500
 this and talk

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 about therapeutic

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 terms and language.

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 There are a few

00:07:39.019 --> 00:07:40.279
 categories of terms

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 and language

00:07:40.819 --> 00:07:42.000
 and language

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.519
 is not simply

00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:43.939
 words,

00:07:44.060 --> 00:07:44.819
 language is the

00:07:44.819 --> 00:07:45.860
 expression of meaning.

00:07:45.860 --> 00:07:49.180
 all our language

00:07:49.180 --> 00:07:49.740
 matters.

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 So eventually

00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:52.900
 we have to let

00:07:52.900 --> 00:07:53.600
 the language

00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:54.680
 of God's word

00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:56.680
 shape how we

00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:57.319
 view things.

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 So there are

00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:02.259
 different functions

00:08:02.259 --> 00:08:03.520
 of terms and

00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:03.819
 language.

00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:04.780
 There are categories

00:08:04.780 --> 00:08:06.139
 of terms and

00:08:06.139 --> 00:08:07.319
 concepts that

00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.020
 scripture claims

00:08:09.020 --> 00:08:09.920
 authority over.

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 For example,

00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:12.740
 love.

00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:15.920
 love is defined

00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:17.000
 in the Bible.

00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:19.600
 If you have a

00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:20.360
 view of love,

00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:21.220
 and frankly,

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 I mean,

00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:23.220
 it's just

00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:24.439
 unbelievable

00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:26.460
 how much

00:08:26.460 --> 00:08:28.100
 the word love

00:08:28.100 --> 00:08:28.860
 is used and

00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:29.920
 defined in a

00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:31.680
 way that is

00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.799
 so destructive

00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:35.639
 in our culture.

00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:35.779
 love.

00:08:39.460 --> 00:08:40.960
 But love

00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:42.899
 has a specific

00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:44.299
 understanding and

00:08:44.299 --> 00:08:45.139
 definition of the

00:08:45.139 --> 00:08:45.360
 Bible.

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 And so we

00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:49.199
 never want to

00:08:49.199 --> 00:08:50.460
 use the word

00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:53.080
 love in a way

00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:54.019
 that is contradictory

00:08:54.019 --> 00:08:55.120
 to how the

00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:55.559
 Bible,

00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:56.720
 we are in a

00:08:56.720 --> 00:08:57.679
 relationship with

00:08:57.679 --> 00:08:58.059
 someone.

00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.000
 Do we love

00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:00.899
 them or not?

00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:02.399
 The world would

00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:02.600
 say,

00:09:02.700 --> 00:09:03.659
 how do you feel?

00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:05.379
 What's your

00:09:05.379 --> 00:09:06.079
 attraction?

00:09:07.319 --> 00:09:08.399
 The Bible says

00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:09.299
 those are not

00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:10.379
 what love is.

00:09:11.199 --> 00:09:11.779
 Love is,

00:09:11.939 --> 00:09:12.600
 do I care,

00:09:13.199 --> 00:09:14.159
 do I want to

00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:15.059
 live for the

00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:15.759
 betterment of

00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:16.439
 this person?

00:09:17.659 --> 00:09:18.500
 When we get

00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:18.879
 married,

00:09:18.939 --> 00:09:19.339
 we don't get

00:09:19.339 --> 00:09:20.279
 married based

00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:20.919
 on attraction.

00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:21.339
 I think we're

00:09:21.339 --> 00:09:21.860
 not attracted.

00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:22.519
 Don't go find

00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:23.259
 out the person

00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:23.699
 you're least

00:09:23.699 --> 00:09:24.379
 attracted to.

00:09:27.100 --> 00:09:27.579
 Attraction

00:09:27.579 --> 00:09:28.480
 sometimes gets

00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:29.100
 you there,

00:09:29.299 --> 00:09:29.980
 gets you close

00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:30.439
 to it,

00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:30.819
 and even

00:09:30.819 --> 00:09:31.299
 connects you

00:09:31.299 --> 00:09:31.919
 to the person,

00:09:32.339 --> 00:09:32.579
 mutual

00:09:32.579 --> 00:09:33.059
 attraction.

00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:34.299
 But,

00:09:34.579 --> 00:09:35.039
 at the end

00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:35.500
 of the day,

00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:36.059
 if you're

00:09:36.059 --> 00:09:36.839
 getting married

00:09:36.839 --> 00:09:37.360
 and you're

00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:37.899
 a Christian,

00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:39.100
 it's not

00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:39.620
 because you

00:09:39.620 --> 00:09:40.719
 feel love.

00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:42.500
 It's because

00:09:42.500 --> 00:09:43.039
 you want a

00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:44.219
 covenant together

00:09:44.219 --> 00:09:46.319
 that my life

00:09:46.319 --> 00:09:48.100
 lived out with

00:09:48.100 --> 00:09:49.659
 you will draw

00:09:49.659 --> 00:09:50.439
 you closer to

00:09:50.439 --> 00:09:50.799
 the world.

00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:52.600
 That's what

00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:53.120
 marriage is meant

00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:53.459
 to do.

00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:54.620
 The effect of

00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:55.559
 my life on you

00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:56.000
 is to draw

00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:56.620
 you closer to

00:09:56.620 --> 00:09:56.879
 the world.

00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:57.799
 It's not to

00:09:57.799 --> 00:09:58.339
 draw you closer

00:09:58.339 --> 00:09:58.659
 to me.

00:09:59.459 --> 00:10:00.240
 Culture says

00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:00.620
 it's to draw

00:10:00.620 --> 00:10:01.220
 you closer to

00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:01.419
 me.

00:10:01.939 --> 00:10:02.559
 The Bible says

00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:02.899
 it's to draw

00:10:02.899 --> 00:10:03.419
 you closer to

00:10:03.419 --> 00:10:03.719
 the world.

00:10:04.339 --> 00:10:05.059
 You cannot

00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:05.779
 give up on it.

00:10:05.839 --> 00:10:06.159
 You cannot

00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:06.779
 give way

00:10:06.779 --> 00:10:07.399
 on that issue.

00:10:07.719 --> 00:10:08.199
 Truth.

00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:10.279
 We're talking

00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:10.799
 about my

00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:11.179
 truth.

00:10:11.339 --> 00:10:11.819
 What is your

00:10:11.819 --> 00:10:12.219
 truth?

00:10:12.319 --> 00:10:12.899
 Everybody has

00:10:12.899 --> 00:10:13.459
 a truth.

00:10:13.939 --> 00:10:14.699
 The truth for

00:10:14.699 --> 00:10:14.959
 you.

00:10:15.179 --> 00:10:15.699
 The truth as

00:10:15.699 --> 00:10:16.399
 you see it.

00:10:17.579 --> 00:10:18.620
 Truth is not

00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:19.299
 a word you

00:10:19.299 --> 00:10:19.919
 can put into

00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:21.719
 play because

00:10:21.719 --> 00:10:22.719
 it has specific

00:10:22.719 --> 00:10:23.339
 meaning.

00:10:24.259 --> 00:10:25.240
 It means

00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:26.979
 truth as in

00:10:26.979 --> 00:10:28.079
 Jesus Christ

00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:30.180
 who is the

00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:31.280
 way and the

00:10:31.280 --> 00:10:31.580
 truth.

00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:33.780
 And so we

00:10:33.780 --> 00:10:34.480
 can't give

00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:34.940
 that word

00:10:34.940 --> 00:10:35.200
 over.

00:10:35.420 --> 00:10:35.740
 We can't

00:10:35.740 --> 00:10:36.340
 say if

00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:36.879
 someone says

00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:38.379
 to us in

00:10:38.379 --> 00:10:38.920
 the context

00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:39.400
 of ministry

00:10:39.400 --> 00:10:39.860
 or counseling

00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:40.379
 well I just

00:10:40.379 --> 00:10:40.740
 like that's

00:10:40.740 --> 00:10:41.300
 my truth.

00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:43.180
 In a

00:10:43.180 --> 00:10:43.720
 gracious way

00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:44.060
 say I

00:10:44.060 --> 00:10:44.740
 don't think

00:10:44.740 --> 00:10:45.500
 you have

00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:45.879
 your own

00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:46.259
 truth.

00:10:48.660 --> 00:10:49.100
 Let's look

00:10:49.100 --> 00:10:49.379
 at how the

00:10:49.379 --> 00:10:50.060
 Bible defines

00:10:50.060 --> 00:10:50.320
 truth.

00:10:50.560 --> 00:10:50.980
 So see there

00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:51.280
 are certain

00:10:51.280 --> 00:10:52.820
 terms in

00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:53.879
 English that

00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:54.460
 we can't

00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:55.040
 give over

00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:56.200
 to the

00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:56.520
 culture.

00:10:56.640 --> 00:10:57.120
 They must

00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:57.700
 remain

00:10:57.700 --> 00:10:58.240
 biblically

00:10:58.240 --> 00:10:58.780
 defined.

00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:03.780
 Whatever we

00:11:03.780 --> 00:11:04.160
 think about

00:11:04.160 --> 00:11:04.760
 these terms

00:11:04.760 --> 00:11:05.500
 they must

00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:06.460
 be submitted

00:11:06.460 --> 00:11:06.820
 to the

00:11:06.820 --> 00:11:07.100
 scriptures.

00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:08.720
 There are

00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:09.420
 categories of

00:11:09.420 --> 00:11:09.820
 terms and

00:11:09.820 --> 00:11:10.120
 concepts,

00:11:10.260 --> 00:11:10.840
 second point,

00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:12.460
 that have

00:11:12.460 --> 00:11:13.320
 both biblical

00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:14.440
 weight and

00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:15.420
 cultural weight.

00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:16.360
 A couple of

00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:16.960
 those words

00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.160
 might be

00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:18.680
 freedom.

00:11:20.020 --> 00:11:21.020
 Freedom is a

00:11:21.020 --> 00:11:21.780
 word that has

00:11:21.780 --> 00:11:22.400
 significant

00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:22.919
 biblical

00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:23.699
 implication.

00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:26.019
 It's also a

00:11:26.019 --> 00:11:26.559
 word that has

00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:26.959
 significant

00:11:26.959 --> 00:11:27.519
 cultural

00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:28.959
 implication and

00:11:28.959 --> 00:11:29.379
 political

00:11:29.379 --> 00:11:29.939
 implication.

00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:32.439
 And they're

00:11:32.439 --> 00:11:33.259
 both relevant.

00:11:33.439 --> 00:11:33.799
 What do you

00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:34.279
 mean by

00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:34.659
 freedom?

00:11:35.939 --> 00:11:38.039
 Freedom in

00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:38.679
 the culture

00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:40.279
 is the right

00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:41.019
 to do or

00:11:41.019 --> 00:11:41.720
 not to have

00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:42.379
 something done

00:11:42.379 --> 00:11:42.939
 to you.

00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:45.860
 Freedom in

00:11:45.860 --> 00:11:46.360
 the scriptures

00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.120
 is liberty

00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:50.419
 from sin

00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:50.720
 through

00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:51.419
 redemption

00:11:51.419 --> 00:11:52.719
 purchased out

00:11:52.719 --> 00:11:53.479
 of bondage

00:11:53.479 --> 00:11:54.879
 into freedom

00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:55.979
 for the sake

00:11:55.979 --> 00:11:56.419
 of obeying

00:11:56.419 --> 00:11:56.419


00:11:56.419 --> 00:11:56.879
 Christ.

00:11:57.479 --> 00:11:57.860
 That's

00:11:57.860 --> 00:11:58.439
 freedom in

00:11:58.439 --> 00:11:58.839
 the Bible.

00:11:59.740 --> 00:12:00.299
 So we have

00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:00.740
 to understand,

00:12:00.819 --> 00:12:01.039
 we have to

00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:01.419
 say, what do

00:12:01.419 --> 00:12:01.839
 you mean by

00:12:01.839 --> 00:12:02.139
 freedom?

00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:03.059
 I still feel

00:12:03.059 --> 00:12:03.559
 free to do

00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:03.740
 that.

00:12:03.839 --> 00:12:04.079
 What does

00:12:04.079 --> 00:12:04.779
 that mean to

00:12:04.779 --> 00:12:05.000
 you?

00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:06.579
 It may mean

00:12:06.579 --> 00:12:07.219
 they're using

00:12:07.219 --> 00:12:07.899
 a cultural

00:12:07.899 --> 00:12:08.399
 definition,

00:12:08.659 --> 00:12:08.979
 which they're

00:12:08.979 --> 00:12:09.500
 okay to make.

00:12:09.579 --> 00:12:09.979
 Okay, that's

00:12:09.979 --> 00:12:10.139
 great.

00:12:10.219 --> 00:12:10.599
 You probably

00:12:10.599 --> 00:12:11.120
 don't have the

00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:11.599
 freedom to do

00:12:11.599 --> 00:12:11.779
 that.

00:12:12.079 --> 00:12:12.519
 You don't

00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:12.860
 have the

00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:13.299
 freedom to

00:12:13.299 --> 00:12:13.699
 kick your

00:12:13.699 --> 00:12:15.259
 14-year-old

00:12:15.259 --> 00:12:15.539
 out of the

00:12:15.539 --> 00:12:16.620
 house because

00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:17.559
 that's against

00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:17.899
 the law

00:12:17.899 --> 00:12:18.120
 in the

00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:18.379
 states.

00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.220
 You know,

00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:19.779
 that's not

00:12:19.779 --> 00:12:20.100
 a freedom

00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:20.620
 you have.

00:12:22.379 --> 00:12:23.259
 But you,

00:12:24.019 --> 00:12:24.779
 so freedom

00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:25.360
 needs to be

00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:25.960
 understood.

00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:27.059
 Another one

00:12:27.059 --> 00:12:27.819
 is trust.

00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:29.679
 Trust is a

00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:31.019
 major word.

00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:32.379
 Guess what?

00:12:34.059 --> 00:12:34.779
 The Bible

00:12:34.779 --> 00:12:36.639
 nowhere says

00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:37.100
 we're called

00:12:37.100 --> 00:12:37.480
 to trust

00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:37.700
 one.

00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:40.179
 It doesn't

00:12:40.179 --> 00:12:40.720
 exist in the

00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:40.919
 Bible.

00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:42.460
 We're not

00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:42.740
 called to

00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:43.340
 trust pastors.

00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:43.740
 We're not

00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:44.200
 called to

00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:44.620
 trust each

00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:44.900
 other.

00:12:45.560 --> 00:12:45.940
 We're not

00:12:45.940 --> 00:12:46.160
 called to

00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:46.940
 trust institutions.

00:12:48.020 --> 00:12:48.620
 Trust is

00:12:48.620 --> 00:12:49.560
 only in

00:12:49.560 --> 00:12:49.900
 God.

00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:51.560
 But in

00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:52.220
 our vernacular,

00:12:52.400 --> 00:12:52.820
 culturally,

00:12:53.140 --> 00:12:53.600
 we trust

00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:54.440
 various things.

00:12:55.640 --> 00:12:55.980
 You know,

00:12:56.040 --> 00:12:56.780
 I trust my

00:12:56.780 --> 00:12:57.379
 government to

00:12:57.379 --> 00:12:57.800
 do this

00:12:57.800 --> 00:12:58.360
 for better

00:12:58.360 --> 00:12:58.800
 or worse.

00:12:59.160 --> 00:12:59.780
 I trust

00:12:59.780 --> 00:13:00.980
 this.

00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:01.600
 I trust

00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:02.220
 my pastor.

00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:03.340
 In other

00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:03.500
 words,

00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:04.460
 the nature

00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:05.220
 of trust

00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:07.120
 in culture

00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:07.800
 is something

00:13:07.800 --> 00:13:09.820
 that is

00:13:09.820 --> 00:13:11.840
 earned.

00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:13.320
 We earn

00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:13.940
 trust.

00:13:15.020 --> 00:13:15.940
 God doesn't

00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:16.320
 need to

00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.120
 earn trust.

00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:17.800
 God is

00:13:17.800 --> 00:13:18.400
 trustworthy.

00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:20.400
 So again,

00:13:20.620 --> 00:13:20.960
 if someone

00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:21.480
 uses the

00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:22.320
 word trust,

00:13:22.940 --> 00:13:23.600
 how are they

00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:24.060
 understanding

00:13:24.060 --> 00:13:24.640
 that word?

00:13:24.740 --> 00:13:24.860
 Are they

00:13:24.860 --> 00:13:25.420
 using it

00:13:25.420 --> 00:13:26.240
 in the way

00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:26.620
 the Bible

00:13:26.620 --> 00:13:27.259
 uses it?

00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:28.200
 And sadly,

00:13:28.680 --> 00:13:29.160
 people will

00:13:29.160 --> 00:13:29.400
 say,

00:13:29.620 --> 00:13:30.000
 I feel like

00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:30.960
 I can no

00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:31.660
 longer trust

00:13:31.660 --> 00:13:31.860
 him.

00:13:32.900 --> 00:13:33.540
 What does

00:13:33.540 --> 00:13:33.920
 that mean

00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:34.280
 to you?

00:13:35.540 --> 00:13:36.560
 Can you

00:13:36.560 --> 00:13:37.040
 begin to

00:13:37.040 --> 00:13:37.460
 trust him

00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:37.680
 again?

00:13:37.800 --> 00:13:38.220
 Can you?

00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:39.140
 Well,

00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:39.460
 no.

00:13:39.460 --> 00:13:40.740
 Well,

00:13:41.160 --> 00:13:41.639
 it sounds

00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:42.019
 like your

00:13:42.019 --> 00:13:42.480
 view of

00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:42.920
 trust,

00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.519
 you place

00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:44.139
 trust in

00:13:44.139 --> 00:13:44.780
 him that

00:13:44.780 --> 00:13:45.080
 should have

00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:45.519
 only been

00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:45.960
 placed in

00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:46.259
 God in

00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:46.519
 the first

00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:46.780
 plan.

00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:47.820
 Did he

00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:48.220
 let you

00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:48.519
 down?

00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:49.840
 Because he's

00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:50.340
 a sinner like

00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:50.560
 you.

00:13:51.400 --> 00:13:52.120
 So you see,

00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:52.820
 those are words

00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:53.260
 that have

00:13:53.260 --> 00:13:53.740
 meanings.

00:13:53.800 --> 00:13:54.120
 They have

00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:55.320
 meanings clearly

00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:55.840
 in scripture

00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:57.460
 and clearly

00:13:57.460 --> 00:13:58.879
 in the

00:13:58.879 --> 00:13:59.240
 culture.

00:13:59.700 --> 00:13:59.980
 And then

00:13:59.980 --> 00:14:00.360
 there are

00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:01.120
 categories of

00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:02.160
 terms that

00:14:02.160 --> 00:14:02.840
 are largely

00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:04.580
 defined from

00:14:04.580 --> 00:14:05.740
 human experience

00:14:05.740 --> 00:14:06.320
 and culture.

00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:07.120
 Words like

00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.100
 diversity,

00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:08.660
 equity,

00:14:08.900 --> 00:14:09.540
 and inclusion.

00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:11.100
 Most

00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:11.800
 psychological,

00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:12.640
 and I'm not

00:14:12.640 --> 00:14:13.920
 evaluating those

00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:14.140
 words,

00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:14.560
 I'm just saying

00:14:14.560 --> 00:14:14.820
 they're not

00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:15.240
 in the Bible.

00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:17.320
 They don't

00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:18.580
 categorize people

00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:19.820
 from a

00:14:19.820 --> 00:14:20.080
 biblical

00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:20.780
 perspective.

00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:22.040
 Most

00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:22.839
 psychological

00:14:22.839 --> 00:14:24.079
 language is

00:14:24.079 --> 00:14:25.099
 non-biblical

00:14:25.099 --> 00:14:25.959
 language.

00:14:28.179 --> 00:14:29.240
 These kind

00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:29.839
 of terms

00:14:29.839 --> 00:14:30.860
 need to be

00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:32.099
 evaluated with

00:14:32.099 --> 00:14:33.099
 biblical language.

00:14:33.259 --> 00:14:33.860
 What are the

00:14:33.860 --> 00:14:34.839
 biblical concepts

00:14:34.839 --> 00:14:35.819
 that come into

00:14:35.819 --> 00:14:36.639
 play when people

00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:37.539
 use these words?

00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:38.360
 Otherwise,

00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:39.179
 people end up

00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:39.599
 using,

00:14:40.099 --> 00:14:40.719
 Christians end up

00:14:40.719 --> 00:14:41.419
 using a lot

00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:42.579
 of non-biblical

00:14:42.579 --> 00:14:44.339
 words that

00:14:44.339 --> 00:14:44.919
 actually don't

00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:46.159
 lend themselves

00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:47.480
 to thinking

00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:48.399
 biblically about

00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:48.779
 life.

00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:50.579
 So we get

00:14:50.579 --> 00:14:51.259
 three categories

00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:51.599
 of words.

00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:52.779
 And this is

00:14:52.779 --> 00:14:53.240
 important for

00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:53.659
 your language

00:14:53.659 --> 00:14:54.059
 as you're

00:14:54.059 --> 00:14:54.679
 listening to

00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:55.079
 people.

00:14:56.339 --> 00:14:56.879
 These are

00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:57.139
 important.

00:14:57.319 --> 00:14:58.019
 Are they

00:14:58.019 --> 00:14:58.939
 using terms

00:14:58.939 --> 00:14:59.299
 that the

00:14:59.299 --> 00:15:00.139
 Bible defines

00:15:00.139 --> 00:15:00.480
 and they're

00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.839
 using it

00:15:00.839 --> 00:15:01.159
 in unbiblical

00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:01.659
 ways?

00:15:02.319 --> 00:15:02.679
 Are they

00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:03.079
 using the

00:15:03.079 --> 00:15:03.599
 terms that

00:15:03.599 --> 00:15:04.360
 the Bible

00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:04.860
 does speak

00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:05.339
 to and

00:15:05.339 --> 00:15:05.539
 they're

00:15:05.539 --> 00:15:05.919
 speaking to

00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:06.099
 it this

00:15:06.099 --> 00:15:06.240
 way?

00:15:06.299 --> 00:15:06.719
 How do

00:15:06.719 --> 00:15:06.919
 they

00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:07.339
 understand

00:15:07.339 --> 00:15:07.639
 that?

00:15:07.899 --> 00:15:08.179
 What are

00:15:08.179 --> 00:15:08.559
 they really

00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:09.000
 saying?

00:15:09.459 --> 00:15:09.620
 And then

00:15:09.620 --> 00:15:10.039
 are words

00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:10.240
 that are

00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:10.799
 clearly not

00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:11.219
 biblical

00:15:11.219 --> 00:15:11.899
 that at

00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:12.379
 some point

00:15:12.379 --> 00:15:12.679
 we're going

00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:12.959
 to have

00:15:12.959 --> 00:15:13.659
 to challenge

00:15:13.659 --> 00:15:15.980
 if they're

00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:16.579
 attaching them

00:15:16.579 --> 00:15:16.839
 to their

00:15:16.839 --> 00:15:17.599
 self-understanding.

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:18.219
 So any

00:15:18.219 --> 00:15:18.839
 question about

00:15:18.839 --> 00:15:19.139
 that?

00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:21.279
 Language is

00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:21.740
 huge.

00:15:23.019 --> 00:15:23.519
 And

00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:23.959
 understanding

00:15:23.959 --> 00:15:24.379
 how people

00:15:24.379 --> 00:15:25.159
 use languages

00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:25.779
 and expressions

00:15:25.779 --> 00:15:26.159
 of how we

00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:26.579
 love them

00:15:26.579 --> 00:15:28.199
 is how we

00:15:28.199 --> 00:15:28.779
 understand.

00:15:28.779 --> 00:15:36.720
 unbiblical

00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:37.360
 life

00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:37.879
 meanings

00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:38.699
 and that's

00:15:38.699 --> 00:15:39.059
 what happens.

00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:40.480
 Language that's

00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:41.019
 unbiblical

00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:42.179
 creates life

00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:42.879
 meanings that

00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:43.339
 are unbiblical

00:15:43.339 --> 00:15:45.439
 and they're

00:15:45.439 --> 00:15:46.100
 like a maid.

00:15:46.579 --> 00:15:47.199
 You can always

00:15:47.199 --> 00:15:48.220
 find a way to

00:15:48.220 --> 00:15:49.000
 move around

00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:49.539
 within the

00:15:49.539 --> 00:15:51.620
 problem but

00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:52.579
 you're lost if

00:15:52.579 --> 00:15:53.120
 you're trying to

00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:53.659
 find a way

00:15:53.659 --> 00:15:53.939
 out.

00:15:55.459 --> 00:15:56.360
 If you're

00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:57.000
 really trying to

00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:57.759
 help somebody

00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:58.860
 and they're

00:15:58.860 --> 00:15:59.539
 insistent on

00:15:59.539 --> 00:16:01.879
 using non-biblical

00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:02.720
 language you're

00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:03.159
 going to find

00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:04.779
 yourself trying

00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:05.539
 to figure out

00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:06.139
 how to help

00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:06.500
 them but

00:16:06.500 --> 00:16:07.519
 nothing actually

00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:08.860
 taking root.

00:16:09.259 --> 00:16:10.080
 Nothing actually

00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:11.120
 making a difference.

00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:12.419
 They need

00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:14.419
 redemptive reality

00:16:14.419 --> 00:16:15.980
 that comes from

00:16:15.980 --> 00:16:16.659
 the scriptures

00:16:16.659 --> 00:16:17.700
 defining their

00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:19.019
 problems and

00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:19.480
 helping them

00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:20.000
 think through

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:20.200
 them.

00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:22.620
 We must

00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:23.360
 understand how

00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:24.019
 a person is

00:16:24.019 --> 00:16:24.720
 using language

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:25.439
 to know how

00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:25.880
 counsel.

00:16:26.920 --> 00:16:27.760
 So how is

00:16:27.760 --> 00:16:28.160
 therapeutic

00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:28.900
 language used?

00:16:32.160 --> 00:16:33.160
 It's used

00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:36.500
 in three ways.

00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:38.260
 This is really

00:16:38.260 --> 00:16:39.000
 important these

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:40.640
 days because of

00:16:40.640 --> 00:16:41.320
 the nature of

00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:42.080
 the way we get

00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:42.900
 stuff off of

00:16:42.900 --> 00:16:44.440
 social media and

00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:45.560
 how quickly terms

00:16:45.560 --> 00:16:46.620
 proliferate and

00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:47.540
 become commonly

00:16:47.540 --> 00:16:48.140
 understood.

00:16:49.180 --> 00:16:49.960
 We have to

00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:50.860
 really be aware

00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:51.420
 of this when we're

00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:52.059
 talking to people

00:16:52.059 --> 00:16:52.860
 because people

00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:56.079
 grab things off

00:16:56.079 --> 00:16:57.699
 whatever sites

00:16:57.699 --> 00:16:58.419
 they're on and

00:16:58.419 --> 00:16:59.039
 they make them

00:16:59.039 --> 00:16:59.740
 fit themselves.

00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:00.579
 So there are

00:17:00.579 --> 00:17:01.179
 three ways

00:17:01.179 --> 00:17:01.919
 therapeutic language

00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:02.379
 is used.

00:17:02.939 --> 00:17:04.420
 One is in

00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:05.079
 diagnostic

00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:05.899
 categories.

00:17:07.819 --> 00:17:08.420
 Diagnostic

00:17:08.420 --> 00:17:10.980
 language has a

00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:11.899
 formalized

00:17:11.899 --> 00:17:12.899
 consensus

00:17:12.899 --> 00:17:14.879
 meaning which

00:17:14.879 --> 00:17:15.879
 is necessary to

00:17:15.879 --> 00:17:16.619
 allow conditions

00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:17.579
 to be categorized

00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:18.019
 for the state

00:17:18.019 --> 00:17:18.579
 of consistent

00:17:18.579 --> 00:17:19.519
 assessment and

00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:19.700
 treatment.

00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:20.860
 So the DSM-4,

00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:23.120
 5 uses

00:17:23.120 --> 00:17:23.920
 diagnostic

00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:24.600
 categories.

00:17:24.740 --> 00:17:25.460
 They're defined

00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:26.100
 categories.

00:17:26.740 --> 00:17:27.460
 They're understood

00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:28.240
 a certain way.

00:17:28.420 --> 00:17:30.039
 When somebody's

00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:30.519
 looking at it

00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:30.840
 there's no

00:17:30.840 --> 00:17:31.539
 question about

00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:31.920
 what this

00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:32.200
 means.

00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:32.819
 Now there's

00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:33.400
 question about

00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:34.240
 whether diagnosis

00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:34.759
 is appropriate

00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:35.180
 or not.

00:17:35.380 --> 00:17:35.799
 That's a

00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:36.380
 judgment call.

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:36.980
 But the

00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:37.819
 terms themselves

00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:38.759
 that's why you

00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:39.519
 have various

00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:40.140
 kinds of

00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:40.539
 depression

00:17:40.539 --> 00:17:42.620
 because there

00:17:42.620 --> 00:17:43.140
 are different

00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:44.299
 categories for

00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:44.920
 those depression

00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:45.640
 tendencies.

00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:47.160
 And so these

00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:48.240
 diagnostic categories

00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:49.059
 when someone says

00:17:49.059 --> 00:17:49.759
 they're clinically

00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:51.500
 depressed what

00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:52.960
 they mean is

00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:53.599
 that their

00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.259
 experience has

00:17:56.259 --> 00:17:57.539
 been categorized

00:17:57.539 --> 00:17:58.200
 according to

00:17:58.200 --> 00:17:59.440
 the DSM-5

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.899
 as a

00:18:01.899 --> 00:18:02.859
 depression

00:18:02.859 --> 00:18:07.179
 category.

00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:08.579
 And it's

00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:08.980
 specific.

00:18:09.980 --> 00:18:10.659
 Nobody's

00:18:10.659 --> 00:18:11.919
 clinically depressed

00:18:11.919 --> 00:18:13.240
 without having a

00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:14.139
 further definitive

00:18:14.139 --> 00:18:14.799
 reality.

00:18:15.399 --> 00:18:16.339
 Depression type

00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:16.579
 this,

00:18:16.659 --> 00:18:17.259
 potentially this,

00:18:17.619 --> 00:18:18.299
 it's going to

00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:18.500
 have,

00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:18.859
 if they're

00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:19.459
 really clinically,

00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:20.579
 so that's why

00:18:20.579 --> 00:18:21.220
 when someone says

00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:21.980
 they're clinically

00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:22.559
 depressed,

00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.279
 often what they

00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:25.000
 mean is that

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:25.959
 they ran it

00:18:25.959 --> 00:18:26.419
 on a medical

00:18:26.419 --> 00:18:26.779
 site.

00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:28.659
 It doesn't

00:18:28.659 --> 00:18:29.079
 mean that they

00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:29.500
 actually had

00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:30.899
 somebody diagnose

00:18:30.899 --> 00:18:31.199
 them.

00:18:31.899 --> 00:18:32.099
 If you're

00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:32.459
 clinically,

00:18:32.899 --> 00:18:33.859
 anything means

00:18:33.859 --> 00:18:34.339
 you've been

00:18:34.339 --> 00:18:35.240
 diagnosed in a

00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:35.919
 clinical setting.

00:18:37.379 --> 00:18:38.419
 So the

00:18:38.419 --> 00:18:39.000
 first one you

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:39.500
 see, and this

00:18:39.500 --> 00:18:40.000
 is the highest

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:40.859
 level, is what

00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:41.240
 I would call

00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:42.559
 these diagnostic

00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:43.240
 categories.

00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:43.939
 The second is

00:18:43.939 --> 00:18:44.359
 what I call

00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:44.859
 descriptive

00:18:44.859 --> 00:18:45.479
 terms.

00:18:47.459 --> 00:18:47.859
 Descriptive

00:18:47.859 --> 00:18:49.599
 language is

00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:50.159
 language that

00:18:50.159 --> 00:18:50.919
 can be deployed

00:18:50.919 --> 00:18:51.619
 in a general

00:18:51.619 --> 00:18:52.479
 way to help a

00:18:52.479 --> 00:18:53.379
 client or patient

00:18:53.379 --> 00:18:54.539
 make sense of

00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:54.899
 a particular

00:18:54.899 --> 00:18:55.419
 experience or

00:18:55.419 --> 00:18:55.599
 struggle.

00:18:55.719 --> 00:18:56.919
 So then, in

00:18:56.919 --> 00:18:57.719
 this one, you

00:18:57.719 --> 00:18:58.559
 may go into a

00:18:58.559 --> 00:18:59.839
 therapist and

00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:00.939
 they may not

00:19:00.939 --> 00:19:02.179
 feel qualified to

00:19:02.179 --> 00:19:02.919
 diagnose.

00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:03.939
 That may not

00:19:03.939 --> 00:19:04.359
 be what they

00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:04.759
 feel their

00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:05.459
 specialty is.

00:19:05.500 --> 00:19:05.759
 They may not

00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:06.139
 be able to do

00:19:06.139 --> 00:19:06.359
 this.

00:19:06.879 --> 00:19:07.439
 But they can

00:19:07.439 --> 00:19:08.219
 look at you and

00:19:08.219 --> 00:19:08.719
 they can talk

00:19:08.719 --> 00:19:09.119
 to you and

00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:09.740
 based on their

00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:10.319
 training and

00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:10.899
 based on their

00:19:10.899 --> 00:19:11.399
 experience of

00:19:11.399 --> 00:19:11.859
 other people,

00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:12.659
 they can say,

00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:13.399
 I feel like what

00:19:13.399 --> 00:19:13.740
 you're dealing

00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:14.539
 with is depression.

00:19:14.660 --> 00:19:14.900
 Let's use

00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:15.440
 depression, for

00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:15.740
 example.

00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:17.120
 I feel like

00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:17.720
 you're depressed.

00:19:18.700 --> 00:19:19.799
 That's descriptive.

00:19:20.120 --> 00:19:20.759
 There's a certain

00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:22.279
 weight to it because

00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:22.980
 it's coming from

00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:23.720
 someone who's

00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:24.759
 doing some

00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:25.339
 level of

00:19:25.339 --> 00:19:27.140
 evaluative view

00:19:27.140 --> 00:19:27.859
 of you.

00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:29.319
 And they're

00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:31.339
 not biased in

00:19:31.339 --> 00:19:31.519
 that.

00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:32.019
 They're simply

00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:32.440
 trying to

00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:33.240
 describe this.

00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:34.180
 This, to me,

00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:34.940
 presents like

00:19:34.940 --> 00:19:36.680
 depression or

00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:37.400
 anxiety, whatever

00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:37.720
 it is.

00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:40.880
 That's what

00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:41.539
 someone says,

00:19:41.539 --> 00:19:42.740
 my therapist

00:19:42.740 --> 00:19:43.559
 has said I'm

00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:44.039
 struggling with

00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:44.460
 depression.

00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:45.480
 It's a totally

00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:46.159
 appropriate way

00:19:46.159 --> 00:19:46.920
 to understand it.

00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:48.359
 It's descriptive.

00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:49.899
 It's not a

00:19:49.899 --> 00:19:50.740
 formal diagnosis.

00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:53.639
 The third level

00:19:53.639 --> 00:19:54.220
 is what I would

00:19:54.220 --> 00:19:55.159
 call definitive

00:19:55.159 --> 00:19:56.319
 labels, labels

00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:57.279
 that define

00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.519
 this language

00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:00.619
 that individuals

00:20:00.619 --> 00:20:01.000
 and groups

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:01.579
 employ to

00:20:01.579 --> 00:20:02.259
 galvanize

00:20:02.259 --> 00:20:03.200
 identity and

00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.139
 meaning with

00:20:06.139 --> 00:20:06.819
 their experience

00:20:06.819 --> 00:20:07.399
 or struggle.

00:20:08.059 --> 00:20:08.480
 In other words,

00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:09.120
 this is where

00:20:09.120 --> 00:20:10.220
 I adopt

00:20:10.220 --> 00:20:12.079
 language that

00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:12.860
 gives me a

00:20:12.860 --> 00:20:13.700
 certain sense

00:20:13.700 --> 00:20:14.440
 of identity

00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:16.360
 or defines

00:20:16.360 --> 00:20:17.559
 my experience,

00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:19.339
 but I'm the

00:20:19.339 --> 00:20:19.599
 one who

00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:20.339
 determines it.

00:20:21.259 --> 00:20:22.220
 So I'm

00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:22.779
 depressed.

00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:24.839
 I feel

00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:25.559
 depressed.

00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:27.660
 I'm depressed

00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:28.259
 is not the

00:20:28.259 --> 00:20:28.579
 same as

00:20:28.579 --> 00:20:29.000
 clinical

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:30.079
 depression.

00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:31.559
 I'm depressed

00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:32.000
 is not the

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:33.079
 same as a

00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:34.259
 reasonably trained

00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:35.099
 therapist saying,

00:20:35.620 --> 00:20:36.039
 you know what,

00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:36.519
 yeah, I think

00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:37.019
 what you're dealing

00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:37.799
 with is depression.

00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:39.900
 It's me saying

00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:40.779
 I feel this

00:20:40.779 --> 00:20:41.019
 way.

00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:43.819
 The danger

00:20:43.819 --> 00:20:44.660
 we face is

00:20:44.660 --> 00:20:45.380
 most people

00:20:45.380 --> 00:20:46.000
 who are using

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:46.740
 terms, and you

00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:47.339
 will find this

00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:47.860
 if you're talking

00:20:47.860 --> 00:20:48.880
 to folks,

00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:50.779
 they're using

00:20:50.779 --> 00:20:51.839
 that language

00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.420
 in the third

00:20:52.420 --> 00:20:52.940
 category.

00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:54.819
 It's self

00:20:54.819 --> 00:20:56.019
 descriptive.

00:20:56.360 --> 00:20:57.120
 It's self

00:20:57.120 --> 00:20:57.620
 defiant.

00:20:58.980 --> 00:20:59.779
 They pulled

00:20:59.779 --> 00:21:00.440
 something up.

00:21:01.299 --> 00:21:02.299
 They've researched

00:21:02.299 --> 00:21:02.500
 it.

00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:03.039
 Maybe they've

00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:03.500
 talked to other

00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:03.920
 people.

00:21:04.360 --> 00:21:04.920
 Based on what

00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:05.519
 this person has

00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:06.019
 said, I think

00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:06.640
 I got what they

00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:06.940
 have.

00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:07.460
 This is what

00:21:07.460 --> 00:21:07.900
 it is.

00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:09.519
 The large

00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:10.079
 majority of

00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:10.519
 people we're

00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:10.720
 going to

00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:11.259
 relate to

00:21:11.259 --> 00:21:13.099
 are not

00:21:13.099 --> 00:21:14.700
 diagnosed

00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:17.500
 in these

00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:17.860
 terms.

00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:18.579
 They're

00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:19.400
 self-diagnosed.

00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:27.580
 the other

00:21:27.580 --> 00:21:27.960
 thing that

00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:28.759
 happens with

00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:33.060
 this, the

00:21:33.060 --> 00:21:33.300
 other thing

00:21:33.300 --> 00:21:33.759
 that happens

00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.000
 is because we

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:36.340
 have this

00:21:36.340 --> 00:21:37.600
 phenomenon now

00:21:37.600 --> 00:21:38.660
 of being able

00:21:38.660 --> 00:21:39.960
 to diagnose my

00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:40.800
 experience based

00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:41.259
 on a group

00:21:41.259 --> 00:21:41.980
 experience,

00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:42.980
 somebody else.

00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:45.259
 somebody else

00:21:45.259 --> 00:21:45.960
 might have done

00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:46.720
 work, even

00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.079
 studies to

00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:49.900
 describe this

00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:50.519
 and I can

00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:51.140
 fit myself

00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:51.779
 into that.

00:21:52.819 --> 00:21:54.200
 Now I can

00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:54.720
 take that

00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:55.400
 whole cloth

00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:55.819
 into my

00:21:55.819 --> 00:21:56.839
 life regardless

00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:57.220
 of my

00:21:57.220 --> 00:21:58.240
 experience simply

00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:00.140
 because I'm

00:22:00.140 --> 00:22:00.539
 an oppressed

00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:00.559
!

00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:01.019
 individual.

00:22:02.019 --> 00:22:03.919
 That has

00:22:03.919 --> 00:22:04.599
 extra validity

00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:05.119
 in them, but

00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:06.299
 it's still a

00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:07.359
 self-diagnosis.

00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:11.179
 What I do,

00:22:11.299 --> 00:22:12.099
 just to make

00:22:12.099 --> 00:22:12.659
 it simple,

00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:14.579
 if I've got

00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:15.139
 somebody sitting

00:22:15.139 --> 00:22:15.519
 down there

00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:16.079
 using a

00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.759
 category, we're

00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:17.099
 going to talk

00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:19.720
 about trauma

00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:20.740
 at the end

00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:21.720
 of this, to

00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.500
 apply this

00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:24.000
 trauma.

00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:26.700
 But if

00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:27.140
 someone is

00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:27.819
 coming talking

00:22:27.819 --> 00:22:28.279
 to me and

00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:28.759
 they're using

00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:29.220
 therapeutic

00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:31.299
 language, I

00:22:31.299 --> 00:22:31.980
 want to engage

00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:32.200
 them.

00:22:32.620 --> 00:22:33.079
 I want to

00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:33.660
 get to know

00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:34.160
 what they're

00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:34.720
 saying, what

00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:35.200
 they mean.

00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:36.079
 It's part of

00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:37.339
 my loving

00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:38.019
 and understanding

00:22:38.019 --> 00:22:38.299
 them.

00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:40.579
 I want

00:22:40.579 --> 00:22:41.160
 them, I

00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:42.539
 want to

00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:43.360
 esteem them

00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:43.980
 as a person,

00:22:44.600 --> 00:22:44.960
 I want to

00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.279
 make sure

00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:45.740
 they know

00:22:45.740 --> 00:22:46.380
 that their

00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:47.240
 experience is

00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:48.059
 valid to me,

00:22:48.259 --> 00:22:49.100
 I'm not

00:22:49.100 --> 00:22:49.559
 questioning

00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:50.059
 very

00:22:50.059 --> 00:22:50.379
 time.

00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:51.079
 I just

00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:51.279
 want to

00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:51.539
 hear, I

00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:51.740
 want to

00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:51.940
 know their

00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:52.299
 story.

00:22:52.419 --> 00:22:52.740
 I want to

00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:52.980
 know a

00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:53.559
 person in

00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:53.740
 their

00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:54.179
 story.

00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:55.879
 In that

00:22:55.879 --> 00:22:56.339
 story, I

00:22:56.339 --> 00:22:56.599
 might hear

00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:57.220
 language that

00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:57.460
 I have

00:22:57.460 --> 00:22:58.240
 questions about.

00:22:58.919 --> 00:22:59.319
 I might

00:22:59.319 --> 00:22:59.519
 want to

00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:00.279
 engage that

00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:01.339
 language.

00:23:01.539 --> 00:23:01.799
 So when

00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:02.159
 you said

00:23:02.159 --> 00:23:03.379
 this, how

00:23:03.379 --> 00:23:03.659
 did you

00:23:03.659 --> 00:23:04.159
 know that?

00:23:05.159 --> 00:23:05.679
 And I

00:23:05.679 --> 00:23:06.079
 don't do

00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:06.480
 it trying

00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:06.859
 to kind

00:23:06.859 --> 00:23:07.819
 of, I'm

00:23:07.819 --> 00:23:08.099
 not

00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:09.139
 investigating,

00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:10.599
 I'm just

00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:11.099
 simply trying

00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:11.679
 to understand.

00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:12.039
 So you

00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:12.500
 say you

00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:13.159
 have

00:23:13.159 --> 00:23:13.359
 dealt

00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:14.399
 all your

00:23:14.399 --> 00:23:14.799
 life with

00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:15.220
 depression.

00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:16.099
 What is

00:23:16.099 --> 00:23:16.500
 that like?

00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:16.759
 Tell me

00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:17.119
 what that's

00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:17.419
 like.

00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:19.759
 And let

00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:20.380
 them describe

00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:20.820
 what that's

00:23:20.820 --> 00:23:21.120
 like.

00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:22.740
 Sometimes

00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:23.240
 you'll find

00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:23.980
 that they

00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:24.680
 tend to

00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:25.140
 have a

00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:25.460
 negative

00:23:25.460 --> 00:23:26.060
 outlook on

00:23:26.060 --> 00:23:27.360
 life and

00:23:27.360 --> 00:23:29.440
 tend to

00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:32.360
 prefer me

00:23:32.360 --> 00:23:32.860
 time.

00:23:33.980 --> 00:23:34.620
 Sometimes

00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:34.980
 they'll

00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:35.600
 presume that

00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:36.060
 because I'm

00:23:36.060 --> 00:23:36.560
 not a big

00:23:36.560 --> 00:23:37.360
 social person

00:23:37.360 --> 00:23:37.880
 and because I

00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:38.460
 have a

00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:39.380
 difficult time

00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:40.259
 developing

00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:41.000
 relationships,

00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:41.660
 I must

00:23:41.660 --> 00:23:42.340
 struggle with

00:23:42.340 --> 00:23:42.580
 this.

00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:43.740
 that's the

00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:44.399
 answer they

00:23:44.399 --> 00:23:45.179
 come up

00:23:45.179 --> 00:23:45.659
 with that

00:23:45.659 --> 00:23:46.220
 makes most

00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:46.679
 sense to

00:23:46.679 --> 00:23:46.879
 them.

00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:48.439
 That's a

00:23:48.439 --> 00:23:48.819
 chance to

00:23:48.819 --> 00:23:49.319
 reinterpret

00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:49.659
 that.

00:23:51.059 --> 00:23:51.839
 So we

00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:52.699
 listen to

00:23:52.699 --> 00:23:53.500
 understand and

00:23:53.500 --> 00:23:54.339
 we seek to

00:23:54.339 --> 00:23:54.799
 engage.

00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:55.799
 Tell me

00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:57.839
 what that's

00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:58.039
 about.

00:23:58.139 --> 00:23:58.399
 We want to

00:23:58.399 --> 00:23:58.799
 understand.

00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:00.179
 The goal

00:24:00.179 --> 00:24:00.659
 though, and

00:24:00.659 --> 00:24:01.019
 this is where

00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:01.299
 biblical

00:24:01.299 --> 00:24:02.500
 counseling comes

00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:03.079
 into play

00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:04.599
 and its

00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:05.039
 function,

00:24:05.619 --> 00:24:06.460
 is eventually

00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:06.980
 we want to

00:24:06.980 --> 00:24:07.619
 reinterpret.

00:24:09.339 --> 00:24:10.119
 Not get

00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:10.779
 rid of,

00:24:10.779 --> 00:24:12.359
 not destroy

00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:13.039
 their self

00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:13.639
 understanding,

00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:14.599
 but help

00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:15.579
 them reinterpret

00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:16.700
 it through

00:24:16.700 --> 00:24:17.539
 redemptive

00:24:17.539 --> 00:24:17.839
 lens.

00:24:18.899 --> 00:24:19.779
 If Jesus

00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:20.660
 Christ is

00:24:20.660 --> 00:24:22.220
 real, and

00:24:22.220 --> 00:24:22.680
 if he has

00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:23.259
 died for

00:24:23.259 --> 00:24:25.119
 you, and

00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:25.500
 if you

00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:26.200
 know him,

00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:27.740
 what is

00:24:27.740 --> 00:24:28.660
 that reality?

00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:29.420
 Often you'll

00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:30.000
 find people

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.180
 who profess

00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:31.480
 to be

00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:31.920
 believers

00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:32.519
 have so

00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:34.319
 downgraded

00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:35.160
 that reality

00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:36.200
 that it

00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:36.619
 doesn't

00:24:36.619 --> 00:24:37.139
 function in

00:24:37.139 --> 00:24:37.500
 their life.

00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:38.019
 But if

00:24:38.019 --> 00:24:38.720
 that's true,

00:24:39.879 --> 00:24:40.680
 it should

00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:41.039
 have an

00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:42.000
 impact on

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:42.279
 how they

00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:42.440
 view

00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:42.820
 themselves.

00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:44.000
 And so

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:44.380
 you'll find

00:24:44.380 --> 00:24:44.900
 deficiency

00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:45.400
 there, and

00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:45.700
 so that's

00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:45.940
 where you

00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:46.220
 go to

00:24:46.220 --> 00:24:46.460
 work.

00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:49.460
 How

00:24:49.460 --> 00:24:50.120
 therapeutic

00:24:50.120 --> 00:24:50.740
 practices

00:24:50.740 --> 00:24:51.380
 emerge,

00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:54.080
 this kind

00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:54.259
 of goes

00:24:54.259 --> 00:24:54.620
 back a

00:24:54.620 --> 00:24:55.100
 little bit,

00:24:56.380 --> 00:24:56.880
 because I

00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.080
 just want

00:24:57.080 --> 00:24:57.299
 you to

00:24:57.299 --> 00:24:58.220
 know, when

00:24:58.220 --> 00:24:58.720
 people go

00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:00.460
 to counseling,

00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:01.200
 for the most

00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:01.480
 part, I'm

00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:01.799
 not talking

00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:02.120
 about

00:25:02.120 --> 00:25:03.400
 hospitalization,

00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:03.759
 I'm not

00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:04.200
 talking about

00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:04.980
 high-end

00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:07.120
 intensive

00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:08.700
 mental health

00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:09.180
 treatment, but

00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:09.900
 just counseling,

00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.860
 practices

00:25:12.860 --> 00:25:15.460
 emerge, it

00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:15.880
 begins with

00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:16.299
 psychological

00:25:16.299 --> 00:25:16.759
 research.

00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:17.100
 I just

00:25:17.100 --> 00:25:17.880
 mentioned some

00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:18.060
 of the

00:25:18.060 --> 00:25:18.620
 challenges with

00:25:18.620 --> 00:25:19.060
 psychological

00:25:19.060 --> 00:25:20.640
 research, but

00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.560
 we want to

00:25:21.560 --> 00:25:22.360
 acknowledge that

00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:23.560
 responsible

00:25:23.560 --> 00:25:24.860
 academic work is

00:25:24.860 --> 00:25:25.420
 producing

00:25:25.420 --> 00:25:26.120
 psychological

00:25:26.120 --> 00:25:28.019
 research, and

00:25:28.019 --> 00:25:28.640
 that research

00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.039
 has value as

00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:31.720
 it relates to

00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:32.640
 understanding the

00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:33.259
 human condition.

00:25:33.380 --> 00:25:34.420
 Again, it's

00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:35.240
 rarely, if

00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:37.580
 ever, going to

00:25:37.580 --> 00:25:38.060
 have God

00:25:38.060 --> 00:25:38.480
 involved.

00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:39.160
 they may

00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:40.140
 talk about

00:25:40.140 --> 00:25:40.759
 religion, but

00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:41.019
 they talk about

00:25:41.019 --> 00:25:41.579
 religion in

00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:42.400
 terms of

00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:42.880
 particular

00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:44.039
 religious beliefs

00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:44.460
 and how that

00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.519
 affects psychology,

00:25:46.259 --> 00:25:48.559
 but there's

00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:49.500
 nothing I want

00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:49.960
 you to hear

00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:50.860
 from me today

00:25:50.860 --> 00:25:52.759
 that would

00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:53.579
 denigrate the

00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:54.880
 fact that in

00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.660
 these schools

00:25:56.660 --> 00:25:57.819
 here, there's

00:25:57.819 --> 00:25:58.500
 responsible,

00:25:58.759 --> 00:25:59.259
 credible,

00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:00.680
 helpful,

00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:02.279
 academic research

00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:05.360
 being done in

00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:06.319
 psychological

00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:07.039
 departments.

00:26:08.159 --> 00:26:08.899
 I'm not saying

00:26:08.899 --> 00:26:09.219
 that at all.

00:26:09.500 --> 00:26:10.059
 It is very

00:26:10.059 --> 00:26:10.339
 helpful.

00:26:10.479 --> 00:26:11.240
 It's helping a

00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:11.699
 lot of different

00:26:11.699 --> 00:26:12.099
 ways.

00:26:17.779 --> 00:26:18.619
 But here's the

00:26:18.619 --> 00:26:18.879
 key.

00:26:20.159 --> 00:26:20.639
 Upstream

00:26:20.639 --> 00:26:21.539
 psychology, this

00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:23.339
 level of study

00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:24.479
 that results in

00:26:24.479 --> 00:26:25.299
 these papers with

00:26:25.299 --> 00:26:26.099
 their abstracts

00:26:26.099 --> 00:26:27.699
 and everything,

00:26:28.779 --> 00:26:29.639
 when you read

00:26:29.639 --> 00:26:30.219
 them, if you have

00:26:30.219 --> 00:26:30.879
 a chance to read

00:26:30.879 --> 00:26:31.459
 them, you will

00:26:31.459 --> 00:26:32.559
 find that their

00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:33.959
 conclusions are

00:26:33.959 --> 00:26:35.279
 very circumscribed.

00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:36.979
 They don't make

00:26:36.979 --> 00:26:37.919
 broad claims.

00:26:39.479 --> 00:26:40.299
 And if they're

00:26:40.299 --> 00:26:41.059
 good, they stick

00:26:41.059 --> 00:26:41.779
 close to the

00:26:41.779 --> 00:26:42.019
 data.

00:26:42.139 --> 00:26:42.779
 The data seem

00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:43.479
 to show this.

00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:44.479
 We can't say

00:26:44.479 --> 00:26:44.759
 this.

00:26:44.859 --> 00:26:45.339
 Further study

00:26:45.339 --> 00:26:45.799
 needs to be

00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:46.079
 this.

00:26:46.719 --> 00:26:47.199
 And so the

00:26:47.199 --> 00:26:48.319
 claims of most

00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.539
 studies, if

00:26:50.539 --> 00:26:51.279
 they're responsibly

00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:52.319
 done, are fairly

00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:52.859
 limited.

00:26:54.019 --> 00:26:54.919
 So when someone

00:26:54.919 --> 00:26:55.959
 says studies show

00:26:55.959 --> 00:26:57.679
 blank, and they

00:26:57.679 --> 00:26:58.219
 make a broad

00:26:58.219 --> 00:26:58.819
 statement about

00:26:58.819 --> 00:26:59.519
 studies show it

00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:00.899
 blank, typically

00:27:00.899 --> 00:27:01.740
 they're not reading

00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:02.299
 the studies.

00:27:02.979 --> 00:27:03.639
 They're reading

00:27:03.639 --> 00:27:04.279
 what someone else

00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:04.740
 has said about

00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:05.179
 the studies.

00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.139
 The actual

00:27:06.139 --> 00:27:07.039
 academic studies

00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:08.039
 are very

00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:09.099
 responsibly

00:27:09.099 --> 00:27:12.619
 handled.

00:27:13.579 --> 00:27:14.039
 And most

00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:14.579
 often if they

00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:15.139
 find something

00:27:15.139 --> 00:27:15.959
 significant, they

00:27:15.959 --> 00:27:16.519
 say further

00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:17.500
 studies needed, and

00:27:17.500 --> 00:27:18.039
 that happens

00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:18.740
 when you develop

00:27:18.740 --> 00:27:19.959
 more detail in

00:27:19.959 --> 00:27:20.219
 something.

00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:23.099
 And upstream

00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:24.759
 psychology rarely

00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:26.279
 offers specific

00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:27.500
 treatment recommendations.

00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:29.379
 These studies are

00:27:29.379 --> 00:27:30.179
 not about treatment.

00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:32.179
 They're about data,

00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:33.720
 and how to

00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:34.539
 understand the

00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:35.259
 implications of

00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:35.519
 data.

00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:39.440
 So then out

00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:40.019
 of that,

00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:41.900
 sometimes a

00:27:41.900 --> 00:27:43.580
 theory creates

00:27:43.580 --> 00:27:44.140
 the need for

00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:44.519
 studies.

00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:45.920
 Sometimes studies

00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.640
 reveal or begin

00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:48.960
 to orient

00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:49.759
 themselves into

00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:50.340
 theory.

00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:52.340
 Psychological

00:27:52.340 --> 00:27:53.019
 research is

00:27:53.019 --> 00:27:53.620
 utilized to

00:27:53.620 --> 00:27:54.360
 develop theories

00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:55.100
 of motivation,

00:27:55.360 --> 00:27:55.640
 thinking,

00:27:55.779 --> 00:27:56.360
 motivations, and

00:27:56.360 --> 00:27:56.799
 behavior.

00:27:57.640 --> 00:27:58.400
 New descriptive

00:27:58.400 --> 00:27:59.360
 terminologies are

00:27:59.360 --> 00:28:00.240
 developed to fill

00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:00.920
 out theoretical

00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:01.700
 understandings and

00:28:01.700 --> 00:28:02.080
 categories.

00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:03.440
 If this works

00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:03.920
 well, this is

00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:04.340
 what happens.

00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:05.280
 They're trying to,

00:28:05.340 --> 00:28:05.840
 okay, we're seeing

00:28:05.840 --> 00:28:07.160
 this data.

00:28:07.600 --> 00:28:08.180
 What do we call

00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:08.460
 this?

00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:09.360
 And so you come up

00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:10.039
 with these different

00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:11.459
 labels and names,

00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:11.819
 and they're

00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:12.879
 responsibly handled,

00:28:13.099 --> 00:28:13.899
 and those kind

00:28:13.899 --> 00:28:14.339
 of things.

00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:19.099
 Theories, though,

00:28:19.219 --> 00:28:20.779
 are drawn from

00:28:20.779 --> 00:28:21.539
 research, but are

00:28:21.539 --> 00:28:22.519
 prone to broad

00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:24.079
 inferences based

00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:25.199
 on finite data

00:28:25.199 --> 00:28:25.500
 pools.

00:28:25.699 --> 00:28:26.379
 Basically, just

00:28:26.379 --> 00:28:27.219
 saying the

00:28:27.219 --> 00:28:27.779
 tendency in

00:28:27.779 --> 00:28:28.399
 theories is to

00:28:28.399 --> 00:28:29.379
 make claims that

00:28:29.379 --> 00:28:30.199
 are larger than

00:28:30.199 --> 00:28:31.500
 the data themselves

00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:32.059
 propose.

00:28:37.139 --> 00:28:37.740
 So the

00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:38.359
 research can't

00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:38.899
 keep up with

00:28:38.899 --> 00:28:39.240
 theories.

00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:43.359
 The one

00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:44.039
 challenge these

00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:45.059
 days is a lot

00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:45.740
 of these terms,

00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:46.559
 a lot of terms

00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.099
 aren't really

00:28:48.099 --> 00:28:48.759
 drawn from

00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:49.219
 studies.

00:28:49.619 --> 00:28:50.019
 A lot of

00:28:50.019 --> 00:28:50.740
 terms that are

00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:51.959
 most often used

00:28:51.959 --> 00:28:52.579
 these days are

00:28:52.579 --> 00:28:53.179
 not drawn from

00:28:53.179 --> 00:28:53.619
 any studies.

00:28:54.419 --> 00:28:55.019
 I use the

00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:56.359
 word neurodiversity

00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:56.959
 for one.

00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:58.679
 Neurodiversity

00:28:58.679 --> 00:28:59.740
 is not drawn

00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:00.639
 from any studies.

00:29:01.679 --> 00:29:02.479
 It was coined

00:29:02.479 --> 00:29:04.099
 by a sociologist

00:29:04.099 --> 00:29:05.899
 who was trying,

00:29:05.979 --> 00:29:06.699
 and actually she

00:29:06.699 --> 00:29:07.219
 wanted to say,

00:29:07.299 --> 00:29:07.919
 Judy Singer,

00:29:08.019 --> 00:29:08.299
 I think she

00:29:08.299 --> 00:29:08.539
 made it,

00:29:08.539 --> 00:29:10.079
 she actually

00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:10.819
 said,

00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:11.659
 the reason I

00:29:11.659 --> 00:29:12.759
 used that term

00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:13.220
 is because I

00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:13.700
 wanted to make

00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:14.319
 a political

00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:14.839
 statement.

00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:16.539
 I wanted to

00:29:16.539 --> 00:29:17.740
 attach diversity

00:29:17.740 --> 00:29:19.480
 into something

00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.399
 so that this

00:29:21.399 --> 00:29:22.299
 understanding of

00:29:22.299 --> 00:29:22.859
 people who

00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:23.539
 didn't fit a

00:29:23.539 --> 00:29:24.279
 certain norm

00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:25.220
 would be now

00:29:25.220 --> 00:29:26.420
 understood as a

00:29:26.420 --> 00:29:27.180
 potentially oppressed

00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:27.620
 category.

00:29:28.620 --> 00:29:29.799
 She was politically

00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:30.340
 motivated.

00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:31.740
 She says that.

00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:33.360
 It's not an

00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:33.779
 expert base,

00:29:33.820 --> 00:29:34.240
 it's what she

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:34.580
 says.

00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:36.340
 It doesn't mean

00:29:36.340 --> 00:29:36.820
 there isn't

00:29:36.820 --> 00:29:37.700
 neurodiversity.

00:29:37.860 --> 00:29:38.320
 It doesn't mean

00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:38.980
 that we shouldn't

00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:40.200
 be aware that

00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.140
 people have

00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:43.799
 different strengths

00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:44.340
 and weaknesses

00:29:44.340 --> 00:29:45.660
 related to

00:29:45.660 --> 00:29:47.120
 neurological

00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:48.340
 things in the

00:29:48.340 --> 00:29:48.500
 brain.

00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:49.120
 The question is

00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:49.740
 it's not based

00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:50.380
 on study,

00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:51.420
 and it's not

00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:52.060
 really verified

00:29:52.060 --> 00:29:52.680
 by studying,

00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:53.120
 because what

00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:53.600
 do you study?

00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:54.740
 The range of

00:29:54.740 --> 00:29:57.039
 possible variations

00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:58.200
 of diversity

00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:59.460
 compared to

00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:00.120
 neurology is

00:30:00.120 --> 00:30:00.759
 impossible to

00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:01.019
 quantify.

00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:02.600
 Who knows what

00:30:02.600 --> 00:30:03.120
 the standard

00:30:03.120 --> 00:30:03.660
 mean is?

00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:04.140
 What is the

00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:05.200
 norm out of

00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:05.480
 which you

00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:06.060
 determine whether

00:30:06.060 --> 00:30:06.620
 it's diverse

00:30:06.620 --> 00:30:07.060
 or not?

00:30:07.299 --> 00:30:07.779
 It's always been

00:30:07.779 --> 00:30:08.400
 a challenge with

00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.519
 psychology.

00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.340
 It presumes a

00:30:12.340 --> 00:30:12.940
 norm that

00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:13.580
 nobody can

00:30:13.580 --> 00:30:14.460
 establish.

00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.160
 So the point

00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:26.680
 is that these

00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:27.580
 terms which have

00:30:27.580 --> 00:30:28.420
 a scientific

00:30:28.420 --> 00:30:30.600
 feel are often

00:30:30.600 --> 00:30:31.519
 not scientific

00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:32.060
 in the way

00:30:32.060 --> 00:30:33.400
 they're oriented

00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:35.060
 and they're

00:30:35.060 --> 00:30:35.560
 generated.

00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:37.019
 But out of

00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:37.880
 theories come

00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:38.620
 therapies.

00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:40.120
 General theories

00:30:40.120 --> 00:30:41.000
 lead to downstream

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:42.840
 applications in the

00:30:42.840 --> 00:30:43.600
 form of therapies.

00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:44.299
 Therapies tend to

00:30:44.299 --> 00:30:45.100
 become popular

00:30:45.100 --> 00:30:46.400
 because they claim

00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:47.519
 to address current

00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.120
 cultural psychological

00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:49.820
 problems.

00:30:50.080 --> 00:30:50.640
 Therapists tend to

00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.580
 be pragmatists

00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:52.619
 who are not

00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:53.379
 married to any

00:30:53.379 --> 00:30:54.220
 particular psychological

00:30:54.220 --> 00:30:55.319
 theories and

00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:56.079
 will tend to move

00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:56.980
 toward whatever

00:30:56.980 --> 00:30:58.079
 seems to be working

00:30:58.079 --> 00:30:59.039
 for the clientele

00:30:59.039 --> 00:30:59.619
 they're seeking to

00:30:59.619 --> 00:30:59.919
 serve.

00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:01.279
 So they're out

00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:02.299
 shopping for what

00:31:02.299 --> 00:31:02.819
 might work.

00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:04.259
 So EMDR was a

00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:05.519
 very popular

00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.679
 therapy and

00:31:09.679 --> 00:31:10.299
 everybody was

00:31:10.299 --> 00:31:11.199
 doing EMDR.

00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:12.439
 It's kind of

00:31:12.439 --> 00:31:13.379
 played out now.

00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:15.079
 What tends to

00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:15.619
 happen in these

00:31:15.619 --> 00:31:16.240
 different therapies

00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:18.399
 is that it works

00:31:18.399 --> 00:31:19.299
 in some ways for

00:31:19.299 --> 00:31:19.960
 some people.

00:31:20.419 --> 00:31:21.019
 It's used to

00:31:21.019 --> 00:31:21.500
 cover a lot

00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:22.160
 different things.

00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:23.359
 It's proven to

00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:24.019
 not be as

00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:25.299
 reliable and

00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:26.259
 effective as it

00:31:26.259 --> 00:31:26.619
 is.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:27.700
 Then it falls by

00:31:27.700 --> 00:31:28.299
 the wayside and

00:31:28.299 --> 00:31:28.980
 something else

00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:30.000
 comes in.

00:31:30.859 --> 00:31:31.400
 So therapies

00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:32.400
 are very prone

00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:33.460
 to fatism not

00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:34.539
 only in popular

00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:35.460
 culture but also

00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:36.500
 in treatments.

00:31:38.500 --> 00:31:39.119
 And really at

00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:40.059
 this level there's

00:31:40.059 --> 00:31:40.859
 very little

00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:42.099
 research-based

00:31:42.099 --> 00:31:42.779
 therapy.

00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:44.720
 People are not

00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:45.339
 basing it.

00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:46.880
 It doesn't mean

00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:47.339
 that people aren't

00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:47.980
 reading studies.

00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:49.000
 And I don't want

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:50.039
 to portray anyone

00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:50.940
 who's doing

00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:51.980
 therapy as

00:31:51.980 --> 00:31:52.420
 being somebody

00:31:52.420 --> 00:31:52.740
 who doesn't

00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:53.220
 care about

00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:53.519
 what the

00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:54.200
 studies show.

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:55.339
 I'm just

00:31:55.339 --> 00:31:55.779
 saying by the

00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:56.659
 time people are

00:31:56.659 --> 00:31:58.539
 doing therapy

00:31:58.539 --> 00:31:59.359
 not to make a lot

00:31:59.359 --> 00:31:59.799
 of money because

00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:00.259
 they don't.

00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:01.180
 And they're doing

00:32:01.180 --> 00:32:02.180
 therapy not because

00:32:02.180 --> 00:32:03.119
 they love science.

00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:03.659
 They're doing it

00:32:03.659 --> 00:32:04.119
 because they want to

00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:04.359
 help.

00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:06.259
 So what's going to

00:32:06.259 --> 00:32:06.519
 help?

00:32:06.899 --> 00:32:07.779
 That's what drives

00:32:07.779 --> 00:32:08.980
 people to do the

00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:09.279
 therapy.

00:32:10.099 --> 00:32:11.119
 And so we want to

00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:11.879
 know that so we

00:32:11.879 --> 00:32:12.599
 don't think that

00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:13.559
 they're operating from

00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:15.079
 a knowledge base that

00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:15.699
 they don't really

00:32:15.699 --> 00:32:16.240
 have.

00:32:18.139 --> 00:32:19.240
 Over time,

00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:21.439
 research findings tend

00:32:21.439 --> 00:32:22.839
 to change relatively

00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:23.339
 little.

00:32:24.500 --> 00:32:26.859
 Theories morph and

00:32:26.859 --> 00:32:27.819
 fall out of fashion

00:32:27.819 --> 00:32:28.699
 and therapy lose

00:32:28.699 --> 00:32:29.419
 their popularity.

00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:33.059
 That's what a fad is.

00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:33.740
 So there's very little

00:32:33.740 --> 00:32:34.619
 of the changes up at

00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:35.339
 the upper stream.

00:32:36.419 --> 00:32:37.220
 Things change at a

00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:37.839
 certain level and

00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:38.919
 things change wildly

00:32:38.919 --> 00:32:39.720
 at the bottom end.

00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:41.539
 Particularly through

00:32:41.539 --> 00:32:41.879
 publishing.

00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:47.440
 So bottom line

00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:48.340
 there, an important

00:32:48.340 --> 00:32:49.200
 point, don't be

00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.320
 intimidated by the

00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:51.060
 therapeutic world.

00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:51.940
 Don't be intimidated

00:32:51.940 --> 00:32:52.960
 when someone says

00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:53.520
 I'm going to a

00:32:53.520 --> 00:32:53.800
 counselor.

00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:56.320
 That person like you

00:32:56.320 --> 00:32:58.020
 is most likely

00:32:58.020 --> 00:32:59.140
 someone who just

00:32:59.140 --> 00:33:00.620
 wants to help and

00:33:00.620 --> 00:33:01.220
 is trying to find

00:33:01.220 --> 00:33:01.900
 something that will

00:33:01.900 --> 00:33:02.680
 help this person.

00:33:03.800 --> 00:33:04.620
 They're not a

00:33:04.620 --> 00:33:05.020
 threat.

00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:08.980
 And most people

00:33:08.980 --> 00:33:09.880
 who find that they

00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:10.640
 have, my experience

00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:11.420
 with most people who

00:33:11.420 --> 00:33:11.860
 find that they

00:33:11.859 --> 00:33:12.679
 live with a counselor

00:33:12.679 --> 00:33:13.799
 who has a very

00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:15.000
 definitive approach

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:16.419
 they want to take

00:33:16.419 --> 00:33:17.319
 and they're pushing

00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:19.519
 that way, they don't

00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.399
 keep clients long.

00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:22.719
 Because you have to

00:33:22.719 --> 00:33:23.240
 have a pretty

00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:24.299
 compliant client.

00:33:24.939 --> 00:33:25.679
 And people don't

00:33:25.679 --> 00:33:26.399
 want to pay to be

00:33:26.399 --> 00:33:27.199
 told what to do.

00:33:28.779 --> 00:33:30.039
 So most often the

00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:31.299
 best therapists are

00:33:31.299 --> 00:33:32.959
 ones who basically

00:33:32.959 --> 00:33:34.059
 fall back on this

00:33:34.059 --> 00:33:37.059
 idea that I know

00:33:37.059 --> 00:33:37.559
 how to use a

00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:38.299
 help to describe

00:33:38.299 --> 00:33:38.719
 yourself.

00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:39.299
 I know how to

00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:39.819
 speak to you in

00:33:39.819 --> 00:33:41.339
 ways that give you

00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:42.199
 a sense of agency

00:33:42.199 --> 00:33:43.079
 and personhood

00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:44.259
 and I'm able to

00:33:44.259 --> 00:33:45.119
 walk you along

00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.599
 steps toward changes

00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:47.139
 that you want to

00:33:47.139 --> 00:33:47.399
 make.

00:33:48.199 --> 00:33:48.899
 That's most

00:33:48.899 --> 00:33:49.720
 therapists that are

00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:50.419
 good to do.

00:33:51.699 --> 00:33:52.619
 Four ways people

00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:53.339
 acquire therapeutic

00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:53.919
 diagnosis.

00:33:54.959 --> 00:33:56.000
 There's a DSM

00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:56.639
 diagnosis,

00:33:57.199 --> 00:33:58.559
 professionally trained,

00:33:59.419 --> 00:34:00.980
 follows the DSM-5

00:34:00.980 --> 00:34:02.159
 category to assess

00:34:02.159 --> 00:34:02.779
 patients.

00:34:04.419 --> 00:34:04.919
 Practical

00:34:04.919 --> 00:34:06.559
 categorization is

00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:07.259
 another one where

00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:09.079
 basically a high-level

00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:10.119
 psychologist or

00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:11.480
 therapist may not

00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:12.179
 always be able to

00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:13.380
 offer formal

00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:14.360
 diagnosis according

00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:15.420
 to DSM-5 but

00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:17.340
 they'll put DSM-5

00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:18.319
 codes into charge

00:34:18.319 --> 00:34:18.840
 we just talked

00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:19.480
 about so insurance

00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:19.980
 companies will

00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:21.099
 accept responsibility

00:34:21.099 --> 00:34:21.599
 and pay for

00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:21.920
 treatment.

00:34:22.279 --> 00:34:22.759
 That's still

00:34:22.759 --> 00:34:23.699
 responsible in my

00:34:23.699 --> 00:34:23.980
 mind.

00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:25.159
 It's just the

00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:25.779
 nature of the

00:34:25.779 --> 00:34:26.599
 industry that you

00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:27.199
 have to do it that

00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:27.440
 way.

00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:28.940
 Therapeutic

00:34:28.940 --> 00:34:29.460
 description.

00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:31.000
 Typical

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:31.799
 therapists using

00:34:31.799 --> 00:34:32.799
 diagnostic language

00:34:32.799 --> 00:34:33.460
 to label a

00:34:33.460 --> 00:34:34.259
 client's self

00:34:34.259 --> 00:34:35.460
 descriptions without

00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:36.619
 considering requirements

00:34:36.619 --> 00:34:37.960
 formal diagnosis.

00:34:38.299 --> 00:34:39.519
 I do get concerned

00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:40.039
 about this.

00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:40.980
 I get concerned

00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:43.159
 when I hear from

00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:45.099
 somebody at my

00:34:45.099 --> 00:34:46.619
 church where the

00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:47.339
 counselor they're

00:34:47.339 --> 00:34:48.039
 going to is

00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:48.819
 throwing terms

00:34:48.819 --> 00:34:50.839
 around as if

00:34:50.839 --> 00:34:53.259
 they really know

00:34:53.259 --> 00:34:53.819
 what they're talking

00:34:53.819 --> 00:34:54.119
 about.

00:34:55.299 --> 00:34:56.199
 And I get

00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:56.759
 concerned about

00:34:56.759 --> 00:34:56.960
 that.

00:34:57.019 --> 00:34:57.460
 It's hard to know

00:34:57.460 --> 00:34:57.940
 what to do because

00:34:57.940 --> 00:34:58.319
 I don't want to

00:34:58.319 --> 00:35:02.179
 necessarily confront

00:35:02.179 --> 00:35:02.880
 somebody who's not

00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:03.500
 in my room.

00:35:04.259 --> 00:35:05.179
 But I start to be

00:35:05.179 --> 00:35:05.819
 concerned when I

00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:07.059
 feel like the

00:35:07.059 --> 00:35:10.720
 person is enamored

00:35:10.720 --> 00:35:11.600
 with terminology

00:35:11.600 --> 00:35:12.440
 because it sounds

00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.120
 medical and isn't

00:35:15.120 --> 00:35:16.760
 really understanding

00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:17.480
 what they're doing.

00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:19.920
 And then self

00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:20.440
 diagnosis.

00:35:20.680 --> 00:35:21.720
 Online tests

00:35:21.720 --> 00:35:24.600
 furnished by various

00:35:24.600 --> 00:35:25.320
 therapy practices.

00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:26.260
 You'll go online.

00:35:26.380 --> 00:35:27.680
 You can say, do I

00:35:27.680 --> 00:35:28.400
 struggle with this

00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:28.760
 or this?

00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.220
 There's going to be

00:35:29.220 --> 00:35:30.019
 an online test you

00:35:30.019 --> 00:35:30.400
 can take.

00:35:30.940 --> 00:35:31.720
 Five questions,

00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.400
 ten questions.

00:35:32.740 --> 00:35:33.360
 Yes, you probably

00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:33.660
 do.

00:35:34.160 --> 00:35:35.019
 Usually they're a

00:35:35.019 --> 00:35:35.780
 lead-in to

00:35:35.780 --> 00:35:36.580
 therapy.

00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:39.180
 Please call us.

00:35:39.540 --> 00:35:40.160
 Those kind of

00:35:40.160 --> 00:35:40.300
 things.

00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:40.700
 It doesn't mean

00:35:40.700 --> 00:35:41.340
 they're illegitimate.

00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:42.540
 It just means

00:35:42.540 --> 00:35:43.220
 they're superficial.

00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:43.760
 And some people

00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:44.280
 are like, okay,

00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:44.720
 I've got my

00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:45.440
 diagnosis now.

00:35:45.560 --> 00:35:46.420
 I filled out the

00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:46.740
 questionnaire.

00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:47.200
 I've got my

00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:47.600
 diagnosis.

00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:48.540
 Good to go.

00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:50.300
 Instagram, TikTok,

00:35:50.560 --> 00:35:51.220
 and social media

00:35:51.220 --> 00:35:52.040
 influences are

00:35:52.040 --> 00:35:53.380
 probably the major

00:35:53.380 --> 00:35:54.060
 way people get

00:35:54.060 --> 00:35:54.960
 diagnosis at this

00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:55.220
 point.

00:35:57.080 --> 00:35:58.000
 And then opinions

00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:58.720
 of others or

00:35:58.720 --> 00:35:59.260
 internalized

00:35:59.260 --> 00:35:59.960
 self-definition.

00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:01.000
 Somebody you

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:03.300
 trust or tells you

00:36:03.300 --> 00:36:03.840
 something about

00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:04.460
 yourself and you

00:36:04.460 --> 00:36:05.079
 buy into that.

00:36:08.200 --> 00:36:08.820
 We must not be

00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:09.579
 disfaceted with a

00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:10.380
 person's use of

00:36:10.380 --> 00:36:11.260
 therapeutic language.

00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:12.100
 We know we can do

00:36:12.100 --> 00:36:12.740
 better with biblical

00:36:12.740 --> 00:36:13.280
 truth.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:14.940
 We must also do

00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:15.400
 better with a

00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:16.079
 biblical attitude.

00:36:16.340 --> 00:36:17.440
 My biggest concern

00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:18.340
 for pastors in

00:36:18.340 --> 00:36:18.960
 particular, but I

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:19.500
 think also for

00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:19.820
 people in the

00:36:19.820 --> 00:36:21.460
 church, is a

00:36:21.460 --> 00:36:22.100
 condescending

00:36:22.100 --> 00:36:22.620
 attitude.

00:36:22.620 --> 00:36:24.640
 I feel like my

00:36:24.640 --> 00:36:25.440
 use of Bible

00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.559
 language is superior

00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:27.980
 to your use of

00:36:27.980 --> 00:36:28.940
 therapeutic language.

00:36:29.720 --> 00:36:30.340
 I'd much rather

00:36:30.340 --> 00:36:31.160
 say we're both

00:36:31.160 --> 00:36:31.960
 trying to figure out

00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:32.639
 how to understand

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:33.179
 something.

00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:34.880
 The Bible speaks

00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:35.340
 to this.

00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:35.960
 Can we consider

00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:36.539
 what the Bible

00:36:36.539 --> 00:36:36.940
 says?

00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:38.720
 And let's learn

00:36:38.720 --> 00:36:39.139
 together.

00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:41.619
 So let's talk

00:36:41.619 --> 00:36:42.079
 about trauma.

00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:42.579
 This is kind of

00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:42.980
 where we'll end

00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:43.220
 up.

00:36:44.220 --> 00:36:45.280
 Trauma is the

00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:46.619
 thing right now.

00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:53.699
 How do we apply

00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:54.679
 this to trauma?

00:36:56.220 --> 00:36:57.480
 There's four ways.

00:36:57.659 --> 00:36:58.199
 Again, we'll go

00:36:58.199 --> 00:36:58.980
 through these ways

00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:01.059
 that diagnosis

00:37:01.059 --> 00:37:01.780
 happens.

00:37:02.659 --> 00:37:03.940
 There's a trauma

00:37:03.940 --> 00:37:04.880
 diagnosis.

00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:06.920
 There's different

00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:07.760
 kinds of trauma.

00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:08.820
 There's PTSD,

00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:10.639
 different categories

00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:13.440
 of PTSD, acute

00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:14.500
 distress disorder,

00:37:15.340 --> 00:37:15.780
 post-traumatic

00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:16.500
 stress disorder.

00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:18.159
 Again, this

00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:19.599
 requires somebody

00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:21.500
 who is trained in

00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:22.320
 the field to

00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:23.380
 diagnose trauma.

00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:23.820
 There are

00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:25.500
 certain things you

00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:26.280
 look for when it

00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:27.099
 comes to trauma

00:37:27.099 --> 00:37:29.139
 to do a PTSD

00:37:29.139 --> 00:37:29.900
 diagnosis.

00:37:33.980 --> 00:37:34.960
 That's one way

00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:35.539
 they get it.

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:37.619
 There's a

00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:38.079
 practical

00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:39.460
 categorization

00:37:39.460 --> 00:37:41.219
 that's done by

00:37:41.219 --> 00:37:42.460
 a psychologist

00:37:42.460 --> 00:37:43.019
 or therapist.

00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:43.380
 They're not

00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:44.079
 always following

00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:44.900
 the DSM,

00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:47.619
 but they'll,

00:37:47.819 --> 00:37:48.039
 again,

00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:49.679
 use a trauma

00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:50.259
 diagnosis.

00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:50.940
 Call something

00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:51.619
 PTSD

00:37:51.619 --> 00:37:54.420
 or ESD

00:37:54.420 --> 00:37:55.159
 because

00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:56.880
 insurance

00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:57.699
 is required.

00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:58.839
 That becomes

00:37:58.839 --> 00:37:59.539
 the diagnosis

00:37:59.539 --> 00:37:59.940
 from an

00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:00.219
 insurance

00:38:00.219 --> 00:38:00.739
 standpoint,

00:38:01.339 --> 00:38:01.539
 but they're

00:38:01.539 --> 00:38:02.219
 not convinced

00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:02.619
 it fits

00:38:02.619 --> 00:38:02.880
 all the

00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:03.380
 categories.

00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:05.839
 There's a

00:38:05.839 --> 00:38:06.279
 therapeutic

00:38:06.279 --> 00:38:07.039
 description of

00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:07.339
 trauma.

00:38:08.779 --> 00:38:09.199
 It's not

00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:09.940
 uncommon for

00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:10.779
 therapists to

00:38:10.779 --> 00:38:11.980
 use trauma-related

00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:13.019
 language to

00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:14.079
 label a client's

00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:14.880
 self-descriptions

00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.920
 without considering

00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:17.980
 the requirements

00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:18.579
 for formal

00:38:18.579 --> 00:38:19.239
 diagnosis.

00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.319
 trauma-informed

00:38:22.319 --> 00:38:23.399
 screening tests

00:38:23.399 --> 00:38:24.179
 which provide a

00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:25.099
 relatively simple

00:38:25.099 --> 00:38:26.219
 self-assessment for

00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:27.119
 trauma experiences

00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.979
 that is meant as a

00:38:28.979 --> 00:38:30.000
 basis for establishing

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:30.579
 a therapeutic

00:38:30.579 --> 00:38:31.019
 approach.

00:38:31.099 --> 00:38:31.239
 Again,

00:38:31.299 --> 00:38:32.079
 you can go online.

00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:32.579
 You can do a

00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:34.099
 trauma assessment

00:38:34.099 --> 00:38:35.079
 of yourself.

00:38:36.319 --> 00:38:36.559
 And again,

00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:37.219
 the same thing.

00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:38.779
 So the way we

00:38:38.779 --> 00:38:39.479
 diagnose this,

00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:40.259
 the way trauma

00:38:40.259 --> 00:38:41.219
 is diagnosed now,

00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:42.839
 either at a

00:38:42.839 --> 00:38:44.199
 formal PTSD

00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:45.259
 or ESD level,

00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:47.500
 at a trained

00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:48.719
 observant level,

00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:50.479
 at a general

00:38:50.479 --> 00:38:51.579
 descriptive level,

00:38:52.179 --> 00:38:52.639
 trauma,

00:38:53.379 --> 00:38:55.699
 and then as a

00:38:55.699 --> 00:38:56.719
 self-diagnosis.

00:38:59.779 --> 00:39:00.779
 Same with

00:39:00.779 --> 00:39:01.219
 language.

00:39:01.439 --> 00:39:01.779
 Same with

00:39:01.779 --> 00:39:02.179
 language.

00:39:04.419 --> 00:39:05.979
 When someone

00:39:05.979 --> 00:39:06.279
 says,

00:39:06.479 --> 00:39:08.079
 you know,

00:39:08.979 --> 00:39:10.099
 trauma is my

00:39:10.099 --> 00:39:10.559
 struggle,

00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:24.500
 targeting this

00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:24.500


00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:37.219
 where that comes from. That's fairly rare. PTSD is not an overly common diagnosis because

00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:42.460
 of the nature of the various aspects of it that need to come into play to describe it

00:39:42.460 --> 00:39:48.860
 that way. Most often you'll see it with people who've come out of first responders in military

00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:55.860
 situations, disasters, common there, but in general population not so much. The second

00:39:56.460 --> 00:40:05.460
 way people get it is someone knowledgeable but not necessarily diagnostically says you're

00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:15.460
 dealing with trauma. And right now I just find therapists are so quick to call and experience

00:40:15.460 --> 00:40:22.059
 trauma and what you're dealing with is trauma. And I think that's a real problem because

00:40:22.059 --> 00:40:29.059
 I think that it's robbing people of a way to deal with what they're experiencing because

00:40:29.059 --> 00:40:34.059
 it's not giving any antidote. It's just saying that's what you deal with and it becomes a

00:40:34.059 --> 00:40:38.059
 self description. I start with trauma. And then the third way you do it yourself. You

00:40:38.059 --> 00:40:43.059
 just, this is a traumatic experience for me. You take what you have heard from other places

00:40:43.059 --> 00:40:49.659
 that you self describe. Here's the challenge with trauma in particular. If someone, and I

00:40:49.659 --> 00:40:57.659
 don't want to say this is a really good fully understanding of this, but the treatment approach for trauma,

00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:09.659
 particularly fully diagnosed trauma, is to move somebody from life controlling traumatic response

00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:21.259
 trauma to a level of resilience to what that response might be to a level of freedom to no longer

00:41:21.259 --> 00:41:36.659
 being entrapped by that trauma response. That's what trauma treatment is meant to do. When someone is just, in this day and age when trauma is everything,

00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:50.259
 what trauma diagnosis, whether it's done informally or done itself, does the exact opposite of what the treatment is supposed to do.

00:41:50.260 --> 00:42:07.860
 It actually says live in your trauma. Find identity in your trauma. Demand from others, acknowledgement of trauma. Don't become resilient. Don't get free. Create an identity around it.

00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:22.559
 And so you, so in this case with trauma, this is my concern about trauma, is the way you would treat trauma is exactly the opposite of the way people understand and self-treat trauma.

00:42:24.460 --> 00:42:35.860
 And that creates the danger, particularly for believers, because they're led to this idea that my trauma is a self-definitive limitation on my life.

00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:43.860
 What is trauma-informed care?

00:42:43.860 --> 00:42:47.860
 Do I even talk about this? This is more people who are...

00:42:47.860 --> 00:42:49.860
 I thought we should get that.

00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:53.860
 Yeah, let's get that.

00:42:53.860 --> 00:42:59.860
 Thoughts on unhelpful use of trauma languages is where we'll kind of end up.

00:42:59.860 --> 00:43:10.860
 Our current cultural climate emphasizes an absolute right to self-definition, and we've already covered this, but importantly,

00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:17.860
 emphasize an expression, my truth, and the absolute obligation of others to validate me in that.

00:43:17.860 --> 00:43:23.860
 It also promotes a category of group political oppression that validates a collective or identity-based trauma mentality,

00:43:23.860 --> 00:43:28.860
 even if a person cannot point to personal traumatizing experiences.

00:43:28.860 --> 00:43:38.860
 But because my ethnicity or my social status or my gender or my whatever it is, because they've experienced it, then I can claim to it.

00:43:38.860 --> 00:43:51.860
 But a growing concern in the mental health world is that the proliferation of trauma diagnoses will undermine identification for diagnosable ASD and PTSD.

00:43:51.860 --> 00:43:55.860
 When everybody has it, it's very difficult to know who's really struggling.

00:43:55.860 --> 00:44:11.860
 Except, you know, I know we talked about this before, the goals of trauma care are the exact opposite of what cultural trauma response tends to be.

00:44:14.860 --> 00:44:17.860
 And for the believer, this is where he tried to help somebody who's living in this.

00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:27.860
 We're dealing with a woman right now in our church who has imbibed this trauma self-description.

00:44:27.860 --> 00:44:36.860
 And we're just, over time, just trying to see wherever that colors her life, the gospel gets lost.

00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:41.860
 There's no salvation. There's no redemption.

00:44:41.860 --> 00:44:46.860
 Jesus is not your shepherd if he isn't your shepherd in your trauma.

00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:51.860
 Jesus has no power for you if he doesn't have power in your trauma.

00:44:51.860 --> 00:45:00.860
 If you protect your trauma in self-identity, though it may have come from a horrific experience,

00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:07.860
 the last thing you want to do is let that horrific experience find you for the next 40 years.

00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:10.860
 Is that how you want your life to go?

00:45:10.860 --> 00:45:14.860
 Somebody who's in their 20s doesn't think that far away.

00:45:14.860 --> 00:45:27.860
 They're laying the groundwork for a life of living, defending their trauma as opposed to life, freedom from it.

00:45:27.860 --> 00:45:30.860
 So I want to go back to the previous outline and close.

00:45:30.860 --> 00:45:35.860
 I'm actually going to close at the end.

00:45:35.860 --> 00:45:38.860
 I wrote something. I'm just going to read it. I don't know if it's even in there.

00:45:38.860 --> 00:45:41.860
 But this is kind of my part.

00:45:41.860 --> 00:45:44.860
 And then we can take questions.

00:45:44.860 --> 00:45:54.860
 Sixty years ago, C.S. Lewis saw the epistemological implications of a naturalistic view of the self when he wrote,

00:45:54.860 --> 00:46:06.860
 If minds are wholly dependent on brains and brains on biochemistry and biochemistry in the long run on the meaningless flux of the atoms,

00:46:06.860 --> 00:46:13.860
 I cannot understand how the thought of those minds should have any more significance than the sound of the wind in the trees.

00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:17.860
 And this is where the Bible needs to be heard.

00:46:17.860 --> 00:46:28.860
 The significance of the mind, the innate dignity of personhood, and the purpose and meaning of suffering, the frailty of our mortal bodies, the need for life and community,

00:46:28.860 --> 00:46:35.860
 the value of moral choices and character in a world filled with evil, the eternal destiny of mankind.

00:46:35.860 --> 00:46:49.860
 These are the things that the culture sacrifices in the reliance upon psychological solutions and pharmacological treatments as the ultimate answer to life problems.

00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:53.860
 This is precisely where the gospel will make a difference.

00:46:53.860 --> 00:47:00.860
 The gospel honors the personhood of people, even people in disorder and sin.

00:47:00.860 --> 00:47:03.860
 Our deepest essence is not our chemistry.

00:47:03.860 --> 00:47:12.860
 It is our existence as image bearers of our Creator with the potential to reclaim that dignity in union with Jesus Christ.

00:47:12.860 --> 00:47:22.860
 The gospel proclaims that the greatest need underlying any other need is still reconciliation with God and deliverance from sin.

00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:29.860
 We stand before a holy God as unholy people and deep down below our presenting problems we know it.

00:47:29.860 --> 00:47:42.860
 The fact that properly administered medication can be helpful means to allow someone with a significant struggle with a mental disorder to begin to address the conditions of their soul before God is not a problem for the church.

00:47:42.860 --> 00:47:44.860
 It's the place of opportunity.

00:47:44.860 --> 00:47:51.860
 It's exactly at the limits of medicine that the power of the gospel always shines bright.

00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:56.860
 As pastors, we want to help people see that they're more than just wearers of diagnostic labels.

00:47:56.860 --> 00:48:03.860
 We want to help people create in the image of God, live lives for their eternal happiness and His ultimate glory.

00:48:03.860 --> 00:48:14.860
 We want to tell people if you're struggling with a diagnosed mental disorder, depression, anxiety, bipolar, trauma, whatever, we're glad you're here.

00:48:14.860 --> 00:48:17.860
 This is the place of hope for you.

00:48:17.860 --> 00:48:21.860
 Believe it or not, the people around you are more like you than they're different.

00:48:21.860 --> 00:48:26.860
 We're all on the spectrum of life controlling problems in some way.

00:48:26.860 --> 00:48:29.860
 But we and you are not stuck there.

00:48:29.860 --> 00:48:39.860
 Even in our suffering, we're here on this earth for far greater purposes than simply playing out the string of human existence.

00:48:39.860 --> 00:48:42.860
 As the scriptures say, 1 Peter 1.3,

00:48:42.860 --> 00:48:44.860
 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

00:48:44.860 --> 00:48:49.860
 According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope.

00:48:49.860 --> 00:48:54.860
 Attach this on to your understanding of mental illness.

00:48:54.860 --> 00:49:01.860
 He's caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:08.860
 To inheritance that's imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.

00:49:08.860 --> 00:49:15.860
 You, by God's power, are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

00:49:15.860 --> 00:49:17.860
 In this you rejoice.

00:49:17.860 --> 00:49:21.860
 Though now for a little while, if necessary, you've been grieved by various trials.

00:49:21.860 --> 00:49:29.860
 So the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold, that perishes through it though it's tested by fire,

00:49:29.860 --> 00:49:35.860
 may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

00:49:35.860 --> 00:49:38.860
 Though you have not seen Him, you love Him.

00:49:38.860 --> 00:49:45.860
 And you can say this to someone in the throes of depression, in the battle with anxiety.

00:49:45.860 --> 00:49:51.860
 If they are known by God, they know Him, even in those dark times.

00:49:51.860 --> 00:49:58.860
 Though you do not now see Him, you believe in Him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,

00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:04.860
 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

00:50:04.860 --> 00:50:15.860
 The U. Warfield said, if ever the evils of this life are to be relieved, the forces of disease and decay, of injury and death, to be broken.

00:50:15.860 --> 00:50:19.860
 It would be only by Jesus that it will be done.

00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:25.860
 Only His name, by faith in His name, can give that perfect soundness for which we long.

00:50:26.860 --> 00:50:28.860
 That's where we're going to end up.

00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:33.860
 Before we close, any questions, any comments?

00:50:33.860 --> 00:50:46.860
 I suggested this to Sean because I feel like you guys, where you're located, and the population who you will interact with and serve,

00:50:46.860 --> 00:50:51.860
 are going to be people who think in a very sophisticated way about food,

00:50:51.860 --> 00:51:00.860
 but maybe buying the things because they're cultural, and you need something to gird you up to say,

00:51:00.860 --> 00:51:05.860
 you know what, no, we don't have to have this choke out the room to go to the house.

00:51:06.860 --> 00:51:08.860
 We can think through this.

00:51:08.860 --> 00:51:10.860
 We can establish the goodwill.

00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:14.860
 We can navigate through this difficult situation

00:51:14.860 --> 00:51:21.860
 and keep Jesus Christ, who is the person of salvation at the center of everything we do.

00:51:21.860 --> 00:51:22.860
 That's cool.

00:51:23.860 --> 00:51:26.860
 And can you, during our brief conversation before lunch,

00:51:27.860 --> 00:51:34.860
 you have kind of an outline of the process that you have in mind to get to read the education in the office?

00:51:35.860 --> 00:51:37.860
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:37.860 --> 00:51:41.860
 Yeah, basically, if somebody, you know, even if it's somebody I don't know,

00:51:41.860 --> 00:51:44.860
 somebody who comes into the church and that's my first time I'm chatting with them,

00:51:45.860 --> 00:51:51.860
 and they're coming in and they're just, you know, you can just tell in the conversation that this is their self-description,

00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:55.860
 and they're therapeutically oriented that way.

00:51:56.860 --> 00:51:58.860
 They just use those kind of words.

00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:04.860
 And so, at that point, I just, I kind of say, I just want to, I want to engage.

00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:05.860
 Engage, yeah.

00:52:05.860 --> 00:52:11.860
 Yeah, I want to, by engagement, I mean, I want to get to know how they use language.

00:52:12.860 --> 00:52:14.860
 How does language serve them?

00:52:15.860 --> 00:52:21.860
 Are they, are they storytellers, and they just like to use language to fill out the story?

00:52:22.860 --> 00:52:25.860
 Are they engineers, and they have very precise categories?

00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:32.860
 Are they, you know, what, how strong does it seem that these things matter to them?

00:52:33.860 --> 00:52:36.860
 I mean, I have people in my church who, they'll come in and say,

00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:40.860
 oh yeah, I was diagnosed with depression, I was diagnosed with this, I was diagnosed with this.

00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:43.860
 You know, and they're like, you know, I don't know, I got somebody diagnosed, I don't do it at all.

00:52:44.860 --> 00:52:46.860
 Okay, that person's not married to their diagnosis.

00:52:47.860 --> 00:52:51.860
 You know, then I got some people who come in and that's what they want to know.

00:52:51.860 --> 00:52:53.860
 You know, before you know anything about me, they're not saying it like this,

00:52:53.860 --> 00:52:57.860
 but before you know anything about me, you need to know this is my struggle.

00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:02.860
 And now you're on, now you're on, you're up, you're in the docket.

00:53:03.860 --> 00:53:07.860
 And I'm, I'm drilling you on whether you're going to buy it or not.

00:53:08.860 --> 00:53:11.860
 So you get to know them a little bit, you get to know how they want to use that language.

00:53:11.860 --> 00:53:18.860
 And then you want to understand, you want to understand in the bigger picture of their story.

00:53:18.860 --> 00:53:23.860
 Sometimes that language is not even the most significant thing that's going on in their lives.

00:53:24.860 --> 00:53:24.860


00:53:24.860 --> 00:53:30.860
 You realize they're using this term, but they've got a wreck happening over here.

00:53:30.860 --> 00:53:35.860
 Why are they not giving attention to the wreck that's happening over here?

00:53:35.860 --> 00:53:38.860
 But they're very fixated on this.

00:53:39.860 --> 00:53:43.860
 They're leading with this when this seems to be a much more significant issue.

00:53:44.860 --> 00:53:48.860
 They're starting with this, but they've got this diagnosis of a physical illness,

00:53:49.860 --> 00:53:51.860
 you know, a cancer, you know, something like that.

00:53:51.860 --> 00:53:57.860
 That, you know, that becomes something you're trying to understand why this is important to them

00:53:57.860 --> 00:53:59.860
 and how they want me to understand it.

00:54:00.860 --> 00:54:02.860
 The goal though is that you're trying to kind of come alongside.

00:54:03.860 --> 00:54:06.860
 I want to look at your, yourself the way you look at yourself.

00:54:07.860 --> 00:54:13.860
 And then I want to just, as a friend, if they're professing believer, as a brother or sister, Christ,

00:54:15.860 --> 00:54:19.860
 how do you think about this the way God wants us to think about it?

00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:25.860
 Have you thought about, where would you go in the Bible to find help for this?

00:54:26.860 --> 00:54:29.860
 People who live in the therapeutic world have a very thin Bible.

00:54:30.860 --> 00:54:35.860
 They've usually got a few Psalms, or maybe just Psalm 23.

00:54:36.860 --> 00:54:37.860
 That's it, that's a whole Bible.

00:54:38.860 --> 00:54:41.860
 You're going to say, well, let's fatten up our Bibles a little bit.

00:54:42.860 --> 00:54:44.860
 Let's see what else might be in there.

00:54:45.860 --> 00:54:46.860
 Or maybe they don't trust God's Word at all.

00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:50.860
 Maybe they've already given over the fact that, well, I don't think that's God's Word.

00:54:50.860 --> 00:54:55.860
 If someone gives you the language where they're really giving over the essence of faith,

00:54:56.860 --> 00:54:59.860
 then I think it shapes how we approach people.

00:54:59.860 --> 00:55:06.860
 You know, you may not confront, but eventually you say, I think one of the challenges you face is,

00:55:07.860 --> 00:55:16.860
 you sort of say you are Christian, but the things that define a Christian don't define you.

00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:19.860
 So why do you say this?

00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:20.860
 Why does this?

00:55:20.860 --> 00:55:24.860
 This doesn't seem like it should be that important to you if you call yourself a Christian.

00:55:24.860 --> 00:55:33.860
 You know, you seem to be insistent on that, but the way you're defining what it is seems to be your own thinking.

00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:36.860
 Is that a religion that you necessarily want to hold to?

00:55:37.860 --> 00:55:39.860
 I mean, you set that up, and you set the terms up.

00:55:40.860 --> 00:55:41.860
 Who is God?

00:55:41.860 --> 00:55:52.860
 One of the things I try to do is at some point, in an almost only account, I stop talking about theology.

00:55:53.860 --> 00:55:57.860
 And I start talking about Jesus as if he's in the room.

00:55:57.860 --> 00:55:58.860
 Right?

00:55:58.860 --> 00:56:01.860
 So Jesus, what do you think Jesus wants from us right now?

00:56:02.860 --> 00:56:05.860
 I don't want to do theology today.

00:56:06.860 --> 00:56:12.860
 I've got a friend who sits closer to the road, and he wants to help us both.

00:56:13.860 --> 00:56:16.860
 And I'd like to invite you in, and we bring him into the room.

00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:25.860
 In counseling training with pastors, we talk also about a trial on that whenever I'm in conversation with somebody,

00:56:26.860 --> 00:56:29.860
 if I'm a believer, there's a third party, and that's the Holy Spirit.

00:56:30.860 --> 00:56:31.860
 And he wants to speak.

00:56:32.860 --> 00:56:37.860
 So as I'm interacting, I don't really care that much about whether somebody engages in what I have to say.

00:56:38.860 --> 00:56:39.860
 I want to find a way.

00:56:39.860 --> 00:56:41.860
 Where is the Spirit of God?

00:56:42.860 --> 00:56:44.860
 I want to get in the way of that.

00:56:44.860 --> 00:56:46.860
 You have to be biblical to do that.

00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:51.860
 He's not going to bless your semi-lack of biblical clarity.

00:56:51.860 --> 00:56:56.860
 But I want to do it in a way that I've invited the Spirit of God to speak into this.

00:56:56.860 --> 00:56:57.860
 Sometimes confessionally.

00:56:58.860 --> 00:56:59.860
 This is where I struggle.

00:56:59.860 --> 00:57:03.860
 This is where I, you know, as I hear your story, I think about this.

00:57:03.860 --> 00:57:04.860
 Does that have any relevance for you?

00:57:05.860 --> 00:57:06.860
 This happened to me.

00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:10.860
 You've got to be very careful using your own story as if I get it.

00:57:10.860 --> 00:57:12.860
 I understand your struggle.

00:57:12.860 --> 00:57:16.860
 But you can say, you know what, I'm trying to understand this better.

00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:18.860
 I had this experience.

00:57:18.860 --> 00:57:19.860
 Is that at all?

00:57:19.860 --> 00:57:21.860
 Or this is how I feel?

00:57:21.860 --> 00:57:23.860
 You know, it's totally okay.

00:57:24.860 --> 00:57:25.860
 You're creating relationship.

00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:27.860
 But you're looking to reinterpret.

00:57:27.860 --> 00:57:31.860
 You're looking to sort of say, I love our conversations ultimately resolve.

00:57:31.860 --> 00:57:34.860
 And you have different categories.

00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:36.860
 Maybe you don't agree with them.

00:57:36.860 --> 00:57:39.860
 But you're certainly going to wrestle with them now.

00:57:39.860 --> 00:57:43.860
 I just dropped something into your life that you can't ignore.

00:57:43.860 --> 00:57:45.860
 And I'm going to let the Spirit of God go on.

00:57:46.860 --> 00:57:49.860
 Our evangelism at the bridge is simply that.

00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.860
 We're just dropping things into people's lives.

00:57:51.860 --> 00:57:52.860
 And watching this work.

00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:55.860
 That's the beauty of evangelism, right?

00:57:55.860 --> 00:57:57.860
 We don't have to close the deal into something.

00:57:57.860 --> 00:57:59.860
 And then we're what God knows who is to use.

00:57:59.860 --> 00:58:00.860
 So it's that.

00:58:00.860 --> 00:58:01.860
 It's reinterpreted.

00:58:02.860 --> 00:58:08.860
 For professing believers, there are times, let's say, we began to say something like,

00:58:08.860 --> 00:58:18.860
 you know what I think, I think one of the problems is your self-understanding isn't rooted in the Bible's understanding of you.

00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:20.860
 It's rooted in something else.

00:58:21.860 --> 00:58:25.860
 What do you think, can you articulate the Bible's understanding of you?

00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:27.860
 And I may have to do that.

00:58:28.860 --> 00:58:30.860
 You meant to be gravitational, but you know.

00:58:30.860 --> 00:58:33.860
 Rarely are you shouting at someone and saying, stop!

00:58:33.860 --> 00:58:38.860
 You know, you're just inviting them into something better.

00:58:38.860 --> 00:58:41.860
 Engage, understand, reinterpret.

00:58:41.860 --> 00:58:42.860
 And they reinterpret.

00:58:42.860 --> 00:58:43.860
 Yeah.

00:58:43.860 --> 00:58:46.860
 The kind of mirrors Paul Tripp's love, knows, speak, do.

00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:47.860
 Yeah.

00:58:47.860 --> 00:58:48.860
 But it's a little bit more descriptive.

00:58:48.860 --> 00:58:49.860
 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:56.860
 And you know, you're doing it in a way that you're conscious of the fact that it's not my agenda.

00:58:56.860 --> 00:58:57.860
 That's Paul Tripp.

00:58:57.860 --> 00:58:58.860
 It's not my agenda.

00:58:58.860 --> 00:58:59.860
 It's Christ's church.

00:58:59.860 --> 00:59:02.860
 Any other questions?

00:59:02.860 --> 00:59:03.860
 Any other questions?

00:59:03.860 --> 00:59:13.860
 You guys have been very, very gracious and patient to sit on a beautiful day like this and talk about this kind of stuff.

00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:14.860
 So thank you so much.

00:59:14.860 --> 00:59:16.860
 Yeah, I have a question.

00:59:16.860 --> 00:59:23.860
 When you're having conversations and I feel like you live in a society where it's a lot about yourself.

00:59:23.860 --> 00:59:24.860
 Yeah.

00:59:24.860 --> 00:59:26.860
 And like you're saying self-diagnosis is very common.

00:59:26.860 --> 00:59:36.860
 And as someone who's not a counselor but talks more with people and shares relationships with people, how do you navigate a conversation where you feel like a self-diagnosis is incorrect?

00:59:36.860 --> 00:59:49.860
 Or maybe like they just are, have suppressed so much in their lives that they just can't even like realize that maybe they are going through trauma or maybe like they can't even self-darn.

00:59:49.860 --> 00:59:50.860
 Yeah, yeah.

00:59:50.860 --> 00:59:51.860
 How do you have that?

00:59:51.860 --> 00:59:52.860
 Yeah, yeah.

00:59:52.860 --> 01:00:01.860
 Well, I think that's a great question.

01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:06.860
 I want people to tell their story, not give a self-description.

01:00:06.860 --> 01:00:11.860
 They may start with a self-description but I want to move past that and know their story.

01:00:11.860 --> 01:00:13.860
 Because their story is what's going to be alive to me.

01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:16.860
 Their story is their, is their life interpretation.

01:00:16.860 --> 01:00:23.860
 Their, what we might be getting in their diagnosis, possibly, is just simply some categories.

01:00:23.860 --> 01:00:32.860
 If the person can tell a story, and kind of, if they're going to tell a story, I'm hearing that right now, who just can't tell a story.

01:00:32.860 --> 01:00:39.860
 He's just, he's just so on the side of logic that he can't put himself in his own story.

01:00:39.860 --> 01:00:42.860
 He just describes, as if he's not ever there.

01:00:42.860 --> 01:00:44.860
 You know, he's not ever there.

01:00:44.860 --> 01:00:47.860
 Someone goes through something and they were there when they went through it.

01:00:47.860 --> 01:00:49.860
 Just have it around them.

01:00:49.860 --> 01:00:52.860
 So, that's where I'll use emotion questions.

01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:54.860
 How do you, how do that make me feel?

01:00:54.860 --> 01:01:00.860
 What do you, again, I'm not trying to base everything on feelings, but I'm trying to get an idea of what the effect.

01:01:00.860 --> 01:01:06.860
 Because somewhere, there's been an effect on them.

01:01:06.860 --> 01:01:14.860
 And they, they process it in a way that's left them sure of what God wants for them.

01:01:14.860 --> 01:01:16.860
 And I don't want to confront that.

01:01:16.860 --> 01:01:19.860
 I want to help them see that there's a better way.

01:01:19.860 --> 01:01:26.860
 You know, so it's, so I don't really get hung up too much on the other language as much as I just want to hear your story.

01:01:26.860 --> 01:01:28.860
 If you can tell it to me.

01:01:28.860 --> 01:01:30.860
 So you're building trust all the time.

01:01:30.860 --> 01:01:31.860
 You know?

01:01:31.860 --> 01:01:36.860
 And you're refraining from saying things that you know they eventually need to hear.

01:01:36.860 --> 01:01:38.860
 You're holding back.

01:01:38.860 --> 01:01:45.860
 If you are meeting with someone, if there's a tendency you have to sort of say, I gave them everything I had.

01:01:45.860 --> 01:01:47.860
 You probably gave them too much.

01:01:47.860 --> 01:01:48.860
 Right?

01:01:48.860 --> 01:01:54.860
 What is one thing, they tell you something about one truth or one situation.

01:01:54.860 --> 01:01:56.860
 Let's leave it at that.

01:01:56.860 --> 01:02:00.860
 As we mature as counselors realize, less said better.

01:02:00.860 --> 01:02:01.860
 Just carefully said.

01:02:01.860 --> 01:02:12.860
 And usually the world needs that because people are not used to talking to people who are developing the skill of listening.

01:02:12.860 --> 01:02:17.860
 They're talking to people who you want to talk to others and who are fighting them to tell their self story.

01:02:17.860 --> 01:02:18.860
 Right?

01:02:18.860 --> 01:02:20.860
 Isn't that what most conversations are?

01:02:20.860 --> 01:02:21.860
 Well, you know, that's true.

01:02:21.860 --> 01:02:23.860
 Well, I got this story.

01:02:23.860 --> 01:02:26.860
 And then you know, like, if my story's been into your story, let's talk about me.

01:02:26.860 --> 01:02:27.860
 You know?

01:02:27.860 --> 01:02:28.860
 That's enough of what I was talking about.

01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.860
 About you.

01:02:29.860 --> 01:02:30.860
 That's not talking about me.

01:02:30.860 --> 01:02:43.860
 And to be able to let somebody talk about themselves actually can be more free and more.

01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:45.860
 And open them up to me as they're here for me.

01:02:45.860 --> 01:02:46.860
 I have a question.

01:02:46.860 --> 01:02:50.860
 So like, if you're in that conversation and you're listening, right?

01:02:50.860 --> 01:02:51.860
 Yeah.

01:02:51.860 --> 01:02:57.860
 But at some point you find that maybe it's a narrative that's not always accurate or it's unhelpful

01:02:57.860 --> 01:02:58.860
 to them.

01:02:58.860 --> 01:02:59.860
 Yeah.

01:02:59.860 --> 01:03:00.860
 And you discern that.

01:03:00.860 --> 01:03:05.860
 Like, what do you do to, yeah, what do you do about that?

01:03:05.860 --> 01:03:09.860
 Like, at some point, like, do you just listen and kind of let them continue on in that narrative?

01:03:09.860 --> 01:03:10.860
 Or do you, like, yeah, try to speak into it?

01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:11.860
 Yeah.

01:03:11.860 --> 01:03:12.860
 Yeah.

01:03:12.860 --> 01:03:13.860
 Well, memory's a funny thing, right?

01:03:13.860 --> 01:03:14.860
 Yeah.

01:03:14.860 --> 01:03:15.860
 Memory's interpretive.

01:03:15.860 --> 01:03:16.860
 Yeah.

01:03:16.860 --> 01:03:18.860
 And so we interpret ourselves in the best possible way and most of the stories we tell.

01:03:18.860 --> 01:03:19.860
 And so I don't presume on accuracy.

01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:20.860
 Accuracy is never ignored.

01:03:20.860 --> 01:03:24.860
 The way people choose to tell certain things and not tell other things reveals more to me

01:03:24.860 --> 01:03:25.860
 than whether they're accurate.

01:03:25.860 --> 01:03:26.860
 Yeah.

01:03:26.860 --> 01:03:27.860
 Yeah.

01:03:27.860 --> 01:03:28.860
 Yeah.

01:03:28.860 --> 01:03:32.860
 And some people, if there are, you know, mentally they're, if they're, if they're

01:03:32.860 --> 01:03:33.860
 sequence oriented, they're getting it right and it flows and working and you know, right?

01:03:33.860 --> 01:03:34.860
 Other people are mosaic.

01:03:34.860 --> 01:03:35.860
 I call them mosaic and they start to think about it.

01:03:35.860 --> 01:03:36.860
 Yeah.

01:03:36.860 --> 01:03:37.860
 And so I think that's the way people choose to tell certain things and not tell other things

01:03:37.860 --> 01:03:40.860
 reveals more to me than whether they're accurate or not.

01:03:40.860 --> 01:03:41.860
 How do they do this detail?

01:03:41.860 --> 01:03:42.860
 Yeah.

01:03:42.860 --> 01:03:43.860
 How do they do this detail?

01:03:43.860 --> 01:03:44.860
 Yeah.

01:03:44.860 --> 01:03:45.860
 How do they do this detail?

01:03:45.860 --> 01:03:46.860
 How do they do this detail?

01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:47.860
 Yeah.

01:03:47.860 --> 01:03:48.860
 How do they emphasize that detail?

01:03:48.860 --> 01:03:49.860
 That's much more significant to me.

01:03:49.860 --> 01:03:50.860
 Yeah.

01:03:50.860 --> 01:03:51.860
 Whether they got the sequence right or whatever it is.

01:03:51.860 --> 01:03:52.860
 Yeah, yeah.

01:03:52.860 --> 01:03:57.860
 And some people are, you know, mentally they're sequence oriented, so getting it right and it flows

01:03:57.860 --> 01:03:58.860
 and it works and it works and it's important.

01:03:58.860 --> 01:03:59.860
 Yeah.

01:03:59.860 --> 01:04:02.860
 And I'm like, other people are mosaic, I call them mosaic and they start talking and you're

01:04:02.860 --> 01:04:04.860
 like, ah, I lost you.

01:04:04.860 --> 01:04:05.860
 You know?

01:04:05.860 --> 01:04:06.860
 Okay.

01:04:06.860 --> 01:04:08.860
 And I'm not going to interrupt and say, well, tell me what happened next.

01:04:08.860 --> 01:04:09.860
 Yeah.

01:04:09.860 --> 01:04:12.860
 This is a way to tell a story and I've got to pick out.

01:04:12.860 --> 01:04:13.860
 Okay.

01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:16.860
 So, that doesn't get to me too much.

01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:17.860
 Yeah.

01:04:17.860 --> 01:04:23.860
 If I feel like over time somebody is changing their story and I get a different version of

01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:28.860
 it depending on what they seem to be trying to get from you, which can happen, then

01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:29.860
 I'll say, what happened?

01:04:29.860 --> 01:04:34.860
 Like, last time I talked about this, I'll say, am I missing something?

01:04:34.860 --> 01:04:36.860
 Did I misunderstand that?

01:04:36.860 --> 01:04:37.860
 Mm-hmm.

01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:41.860
 And that's a general way to catch them and say, you better clean up your own.

01:04:41.860 --> 01:04:43.860
 I am paying attention.

01:04:43.860 --> 01:04:44.860
 Mm-hmm.

01:04:44.860 --> 01:04:45.860
 Yeah.

01:04:45.860 --> 01:04:46.860
 Yeah.

01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:47.860
 Yeah.

01:04:47.860 --> 01:04:48.860
 Yeah.

01:04:48.860 --> 01:04:49.860
 Yeah.

01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:50.860
 Yeah.

01:04:50.860 --> 01:04:53.860
 These are real, I mean, these are, if you're working on this level of stuff, it's really

01:04:53.860 --> 01:04:58.860
 fairly sophisticated ministry if you're weeding through this.

01:04:58.860 --> 01:05:00.860
 So, I don't want to portray this as just easy.

01:05:00.860 --> 01:05:03.860
 This takes, you usually get it through failure.

01:05:03.860 --> 01:05:04.860
 Oh, that didn't work.

01:05:04.860 --> 01:05:05.860
 You know?

01:05:05.860 --> 01:05:06.860
 I have to recover that.

01:05:06.860 --> 01:05:12.860
 I have to, you know, and, or I was jacked up on coffee and I talked too much.

01:05:12.860 --> 01:05:13.860
 And I was done.

01:05:13.860 --> 01:05:14.860
 Well done.

01:05:14.860 --> 01:05:15.860
 Which I have done.

01:05:15.860 --> 01:05:20.860
 Or, I was after lunch and I was very boring.

01:05:20.860 --> 01:05:21.860
 I did fall asleep on somebody one time in California.

01:05:21.860 --> 01:05:22.860
 So, I know that feeling.

01:05:22.860 --> 01:05:23.860
 So, great.

01:05:23.860 --> 01:05:24.860
 So, thank you so much.

01:05:24.860 --> 01:05:25.860
 Yeah.

01:05:25.860 --> 01:05:26.860
 Thank you, Andy.

01:05:26.860 --> 01:05:27.860
 Thank you.

01:05:27.860 --> 01:05:28.860
 Thank you.

01:05:28.860 --> 01:05:29.860
 Thank you.

01:05:29.860 --> 01:05:30.860
 Thank you.

01:05:30.860 --> 01:05:31.860
 Thank you.

01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:32.860
 Thank you.

01:05:32.860 --> 01:05:33.860
 Thank you.

01:05:33.860 --> 01:05:34.860
 Thank you.

01:05:34.860 --> 01:05:35.860
 Thank you.