WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:16.580
 So, just to recap a little bit from last week, just for a minute, remind you of what I put into your minds last week.

00:00:16.580 --> 00:00:22.120
! We came away asking three questions.

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 One was, where do I find strength in time of need?

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 And I suggested that you might look at Psalm 121 to give you some clues.

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 The second thing is, a really, in a way, a really deep question.

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 What does it mean to make Jesus the authority over my life?

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 I think I said that, go to any congregation, really, and say, do you accept the authority of Christ in your life?

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 You know, you ask the questions along that vein at confirmations and that kind of thing.

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 And there are very few people who would say, no, not really.

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 Most people say yes.

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 And my question is, what does that mean when we say yes to questions like that?

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 And the third thing was, do we take the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms seriously enough?

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 Those malign influences that are beyond our vision, we can't see them.

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 But we had the sense that they are doing their malign manipulation of the human race.

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 And so that was something I said you could go away and think about this week.

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 So what's happening at the beginning of chapter 4 is there is a massive transition in the epistle.

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 And it's a transition from belief, the wealth of the believer, as it were, to behaviour.

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 If this is what you believe, this is how you're meant to behave.

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 And that seems a reasonable thesis.

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 I think we would all say that we want to be driven by our values,

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 by the things that we really claim to be the things we believe in.

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 And Ephesians 4, 1 to 16 has a very clear structure to it.

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 First of all, there is this kind of generic call to the church.

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 Massive challenge, I think, for most of us, not least in the age in which we live.

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 Paul says, as a prisoner for the Lord, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.

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 I mean, you think about that.

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 If you think about the fact that despite whatever things there are that are wrong in your life,

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 and there are bound to be some, if you think about those, God has still chosen you.

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 Talked about that when we looked at Ephesians chapter 1.

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 God has chosen you, and in your way you have chosen him.

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 And Paul is basically saying now, if you get that,

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 then this has huge ramifications for the way that you do life.

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 Walk worthy of the calling which is yours.

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 The second thing by way of structure, verses 2 to 5, Paul talks about the unity of the church.

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 And Paul has this, it's a kind of repeated theme in Paul's teachings.

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 That as Christians, we are called together to live in unity.

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 And then ironically, verses 8 to 13, having stressed the unity of the church,

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 Paul then expresses the diversity of the church.

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 And what he means by that is that in every local church situation are Christians.

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 And when we become Christians, God puts the Holy Spirit into our hearts

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 and gives us spiritual gifts.

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 We'll talk a little bit about that in a few moments of time.

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 So, this generic calling to live a life worthy of the calling that God has given us.

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 Second, the unity of the church.

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 Thirdly, the diversity of the church.

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 And then, verses 14 to 16, the maturity of the church.

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 And it seems to me, although it's a very short section,

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 to be a massive kind of issue for churches.

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 That is, you know, when I was a young fellow,

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 I spent a short time working in what was basically an industrial greenhouse.

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 And we grew tomatoes and cucumbers in this warehouse.

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 And it became very clear to me that the purpose of a greenhouse

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 is to manipulate the climatic conditions

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 so that things like tomatoes and cucumbers can grow.

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 And I think, if I might use that analogy to say,

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 I think one of Paul's big ideas about the church was that,

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 not that we manipulate,

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 but that we should create the kind of climate in our churches

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 where people grow up into Christ.

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 I've got a little more to say about that in just a few moments' time.

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 And so, here's the structure.

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 The generic calling to walk worthy of the calling which is ours in Christ.

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 Secondly, the unity of the church.

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 Thirdly, the diversity of the church.

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 And fourthly, the maturity of the church.

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 Verse 3, Paul tells us that the church,

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 the unity of the church, is a gift from God.

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 It's something that's given.

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 He writes there,

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 make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit

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 through the bond of peace.

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 Not make every effort to achieve it,

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 but to maintain it, as it says in some of the older translations of the Bible.

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 And in the lead-up to that verse,

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 Paul talks about the kind of qualities

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 that we Christians in our church communities should model.

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 And again, they're very challenging, I think.

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 Be completely humble and gentle.

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 Be patient, bearing with one another in love.

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 Those qualities make no sense outside of relationships.

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 Be humble.

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 I've done so much speaking recently,

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 I can't remember where I said this,

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 but one of the things that shocks me these days is,

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 I have a Facebook account,

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 and I mean, I don't look at it that often,

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 and I think, you know,

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 there are about 1,500 Facebook entries

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 that I've never looked at on there.

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 But I have noticed that increasing number of clergy

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 think that Facebook is a place to kind of

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 do a spiritual version of boasting and self-promotion.

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 And I don't think that's becoming of ministers

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 of the Church of Jesus Christ.

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 I just think that humility is something,

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 I guess, you know,

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 many of us have to kind of put some effort in

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 not to make ourselves the centre of attention.

00:08:24.960 --> 00:08:29.000
 My mother, who I think,

00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:34.440
 she had been a ballerina in her early life,

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 and unlike a lot of people

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 who don't like thousands of people

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 looking at them in rather scantily clad tutus,

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 not that that's ever been my experience,

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 but I mean, I think it kind of,

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 I mean, to do it,

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 there must have been some easiness

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 with wanting people to look at you

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 and appreciate what you were doing.

00:09:00.339 --> 00:09:02.879
 In her senior years,

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 it did become,

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 it did feel like that this woman

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 wants to make herself the centre of attention

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 all the time.

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 She could hold the floor without invitation.

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 And one of the things I will say about my mum

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 was she was converted at the age of 53

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 from nowhere, really,

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 and the death of my grandmother

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 kind of drew her into this rather dreary

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 kind of middle-of-the-road church,

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 but somehow the pastoral care of the minister there,

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 and she became born again Christian

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 and very enthusiastic,

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 and I've never forgotten this,

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 that when my sister and I went to

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 sort out her home,

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 we found several shoeboxes full of letters,

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 and one of the things my mum took to in the,

00:10:00.259 --> 00:10:01.100
 she got cancer,

00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:04.139
 and it was a kind of slow burn cancer,

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 and I can't remember how many years she had it for,

00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:08.500
 I thought it was longer,

00:10:08.620 --> 00:10:10.159
 Anthony thinks it was about seven years,

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 I don't know why,

00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:12.360
 I thought it was a bit longer than that,

00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:13.500
 but during that time,

00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:16.039
 she was an accredited speaker

00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:17.819
 with Christian Viewpoint,

00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:24.660
 and she would go to Christian Viewpoint meetings

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 and talk about her testimony

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 in relation to having cancer,

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 and very clearly what she said

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 was very powerful,

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 and indeed life-changing

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 from some of the women

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 that went to listen to her,

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 so I don't know whether that was God

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 hallowing her need to be in the spotlight,

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 but certainly God used my mum

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 in those Christian Viewpoint meetings

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 to talk about her experience

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 of having the big C.

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 So these qualities don't make any sense

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 outside of relationships,

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 and Paul tells us,

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 not only is unity a gift from God,

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 but he says that we have to,

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 this is his words,

00:11:09.819 --> 00:11:12.860
 in the old versions of the Bible,

00:11:12.860 --> 00:11:14.840
 the word endeavour was used.

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 It says here in verse 3,

00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:18.240
 make every effort

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 to keep the unity of the Spirit

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 through the bond of peace.

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 The unity of the church is given,

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 but the problem is

00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:28.360
 we have the ability to disrupt it.

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 Those of us who like to gossip

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 can disrupt the unity of the church.

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 Those of us who withhold forgiveness

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 can disrupt the unity of the church.

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 And I remember David Watson saying

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 in his heyday

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 that he, in his experience,

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 this is a guy who's in a different church

00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:50.000
 four or five times a week,

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 he said in his experience,

00:11:53.379 --> 00:11:55.519
 the thing that most inhibited

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 the ministry of the gospel in churches

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 was disunity in the churches.

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 I've experienced that myself.

00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:05.200
 I've never forgotten

00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.519
 turning up in a church in Windsor,

00:12:07.659 --> 00:12:09.539
 church wardens were there to greet me,

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 and wandered up to the thing.

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 And they said,

00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:12.860
 can we have a word?

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 And I said,

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 I think you're going to anyway.

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 They said,

00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.719
 can you get rid of our vicar?

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 I said,

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 depends what you mean.

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 But,

00:12:25.199 --> 00:12:28.839
 you know,

00:12:28.939 --> 00:12:30.620
 if I'm going to get rid of him,

00:12:30.819 --> 00:12:33.120
 I need very good reasons,

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 not just a, you know,

00:12:34.439 --> 00:12:36.059
 two minute conversation on them.

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 So they then went into this character assassination

00:12:39.359 --> 00:12:40.659
 from this dear man.

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 I mean,

00:12:40.899 --> 00:12:41.839
 he's a lovely guy.

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 And he was getting into old age.

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 He's pastorally very good

00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:49.779
 and in lots of ways.

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 But let's just say

00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:52.959
 he wasn't the most dynamic minister ever

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 to, you know,

00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:55.179
 stalk the planet.

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 And I had to sit them down

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 and say to them,

00:12:59.839 --> 00:13:00.399
 do you know what?

00:13:00.419 --> 00:13:02.259
 I have very little confidence

00:13:02.259 --> 00:13:03.939
 in the future of this church.

00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:06.020
 They said,

00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:06.240
 yeah,

00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:07.100
 we don't either.

00:13:07.180 --> 00:13:07.700
 He's useless.

00:13:09.260 --> 00:13:09.700
 I said,

00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:10.700
 and that's why

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 I have no confidence.

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 Because you should not be disrupting

00:13:16.540 --> 00:13:17.820
 the unity of the church

00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:19.220
 with this kind of talk.

00:13:22.520 --> 00:13:23.080
 So I,

00:13:23.260 --> 00:13:25.960
 then they fastened on to the thing

00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:26.500
 that, you know,

00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:27.440
 like in our world,

00:13:27.540 --> 00:13:27.760
 I mean,

00:13:27.900 --> 00:13:29.800
 whistleblowers always used to get sacked.

00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:31.820
 Now they're kind of honoured people

00:13:31.820 --> 00:13:33.320
 in our society.

00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:34.040
 So they claimed

00:13:34.040 --> 00:13:35.060
 they were whistleblowers

00:13:35.060 --> 00:13:37.000
 and, you know,

00:13:37.520 --> 00:13:38.879
 threatened to lawyer up

00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:39.760
 and all that stuff.

00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:40.220
 I mean,

00:13:40.800 --> 00:13:40.980
 you know,

00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:42.100
 this is the church of God

00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:43.200
 for crying out loud.

00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:46.560
 And Paul then

00:13:46.560 --> 00:13:49.400
 models this unity

00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:52.060
 that he's talked about

00:13:52.060 --> 00:13:53.560
 on the Holy Trinity.

00:13:53.760 --> 00:13:54.200
 Incidentally,

00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:55.620
 if you ever chat

00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:57.400
 to Jehovah's Witnesses

00:13:57.400 --> 00:13:58.080
 and, you know,

00:13:58.160 --> 00:13:59.940
 unless you are biblically confident,

00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:01.720
 I would counsel against that.

00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:03.879
 But they will tell you

00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:04.700
 there's no such thing

00:14:04.700 --> 00:14:05.580
 as the Holy Trinity.

00:14:06.980 --> 00:14:08.279
 And you will never find that

00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:08.879
 in the Bible

00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:10.800
 as one of their favourite punchlines.

00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:11.399
 Well,

00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:12.720
 let me just read this to you.

00:14:13.560 --> 00:14:14.320
 There is one body

00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:15.000
 and one spirit

00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:16.180
 just as you were called

00:14:16.180 --> 00:14:17.000
 to one hope

00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:18.019
 when you were called.

00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:19.060
 One Lord,

00:14:19.220 --> 00:14:19.800
 one faith,

00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:20.700
 one baptism,

00:14:21.259 --> 00:14:21.920
 one God

00:14:21.920 --> 00:14:23.160
 and Father of all

00:14:23.160 --> 00:14:24.779
 who is over all

00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:25.580
 and through all

00:14:25.580 --> 00:14:26.180
 and in all.

00:14:26.179 --> 00:14:26.579
 I mean,

00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:27.819
 that sounds suspiciously

00:14:27.819 --> 00:14:29.139
 like the Holy Trinity to me.

00:14:30.959 --> 00:14:31.899
 And it is.

00:14:32.459 --> 00:14:34.059
 And what Paul's saying is

00:14:34.059 --> 00:14:36.759
 the unity of the church,

00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:38.859
 the diversity of the church

00:14:38.859 --> 00:14:41.039
 is modelled

00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.239
 by the Holy Trinity.

00:14:44.079 --> 00:14:44.519
 Unity

00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:46.479
 in diversity.

00:14:47.819 --> 00:14:49.620
 And it's a very powerful picture

00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:50.779
 which I suspect

00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:51.500
 is probably,

00:14:52.339 --> 00:14:52.599
 you know,

00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:53.460
 its full impact

00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:54.820
 is not immediately

00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:56.480
 obvious to us.

00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:58.220
 As I said,

00:14:58.340 --> 00:14:59.100
 Paul spent

00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:00.139
 a lot of time

00:15:00.139 --> 00:15:01.200
 talking about

00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:02.279
 unity.

00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:04.340
 So,

00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:07.300
 if you go to

00:15:07.300 --> 00:15:08.460
 1 Corinthians

00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:09.580
 in your Bibles

00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:10.399
 and read chapters

00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:11.259
 1 to 3,

00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:12.759
 you will see

00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:14.019
 that this church

00:15:14.019 --> 00:15:14.639
 in Corinth

00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.019
 which thought of itself

00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:16.720
 as really

00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.800
 in the fast track

00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:18.500
 of kind of

00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:19.540
 local churches,

00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:19.879
 you know,

00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:21.960
 somebody said,

00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.340
 that he imagined

00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:23.900
 they had

00:15:23.900 --> 00:15:24.900
 rock till you drop

00:15:24.900 --> 00:15:26.340
 bungee jumping worship

00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:28.360
 and exercising

00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:29.680
 the gift of tongues

00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:30.259
 in worship

00:15:30.259 --> 00:15:31.379
 and all that stuff.

00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:32.340
 And

00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:35.480
 yet Paul

00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:36.220
 said,

00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:36.540
 look,

00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:37.980
 we have a problem here.

00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:40.240
 And in

00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.440
 chapter 2,

00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:45.280
 he talks about

00:15:45.280 --> 00:15:46.060
 this business

00:15:46.060 --> 00:15:47.019
 of kind of

00:15:47.019 --> 00:15:48.960
 charismatic leaders

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:50.200
 taking prominence.

00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:50.480
 So,

00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:51.360
 some people

00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:51.960
 in the church

00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:52.440
 would say,

00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:53.460
 we follow

00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:53.940
 Paul.

00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:55.060
 Other people

00:15:55.060 --> 00:15:55.680
 in the church

00:15:55.680 --> 00:15:56.139
 would say,

00:15:56.259 --> 00:15:56.980
 we follow

00:15:56.980 --> 00:15:57.840
 Apollos.

00:15:58.500 --> 00:15:59.080
 Incidentally,

00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:01.080
 this is a bonus

00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:01.960
 point for you.

00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:05.240
 I read a very

00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:06.019
 good book

00:16:06.019 --> 00:16:06.860
 some years ago

00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:07.759
 written by

00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:09.060
 an author

00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:09.420
 called

00:16:09.420 --> 00:16:10.700
 Hugh Montefiore.

00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:12.940
 and Hugh

00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:13.800
 Montefiore

00:16:13.800 --> 00:16:17.220
 wrote this book

00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:18.040
 and what he was

00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:18.660
 trying to do

00:16:18.660 --> 00:16:19.140
 was,

00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:20.720
 at that time

00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:21.580
 and probably

00:16:21.580 --> 00:16:22.759
 today to be fair,

00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:23.620
 mostly now

00:16:23.620 --> 00:16:24.600
 people accept,

00:16:25.540 --> 00:16:26.259
 even though it

00:16:26.259 --> 00:16:27.200
 says the opposite

00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:28.520
 in the authorised

00:16:28.520 --> 00:16:29.200
 version of the Bible,

00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:30.259
 most people accept

00:16:30.259 --> 00:16:31.200
 that Paul did not

00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:32.100
 write Hebrews,

00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:32.700
 the epistle

00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:33.420
 to the Hebrews.

00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:36.259
 and Hugh

00:16:36.259 --> 00:16:36.259


00:16:36.259 --> 00:16:36.819
 Hugh Montefiore

00:16:36.819 --> 00:16:37.579
 had this very,

00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:38.059
 I think,

00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:38.959
 quite intelligent

00:16:38.959 --> 00:16:39.599
 suggestion

00:16:39.599 --> 00:16:40.360
 that the author

00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:40.899
 of Hebrews

00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:41.819
 was Apollos,

00:16:43.099 --> 00:16:43.639
 who it said

00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:44.139
 was eloquent,

00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:45.259
 very eloquent

00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:46.399
 Greek

00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:47.839
 and very

00:16:47.839 --> 00:16:48.679
 sophisticated

00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:49.620
 arguments,

00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:50.079
 you know.

00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:52.399
 Just to say this,

00:16:52.459 --> 00:16:53.379
 if you want to

00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:54.179
 understand the

00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:54.939
 epistle to the

00:16:54.939 --> 00:16:55.399
 Hebrews,

00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:56.199
 then what you

00:16:56.199 --> 00:16:57.159
 need to

00:16:57.159 --> 00:16:59.919
 understand is,

00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:01.579
 this is an epistle

00:17:01.579 --> 00:17:02.719
 written to

00:17:02.719 --> 00:17:04.200
 Jewish Christians

00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:06.159
 who had decided

00:17:06.159 --> 00:17:06.879
 they wanted to

00:17:06.879 --> 00:17:07.559
 follow Christ

00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:08.119
 but were now

00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:09.079
 tempted to go

00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:10.440
 back into the

00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:10.759
 synagogue.

00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:12.399
 And the whole

00:17:12.399 --> 00:17:13.099
 of the argument

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:14.099
 in Hebrews

00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.359
 is trying to

00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:16.059
 persuade them

00:17:16.059 --> 00:17:16.879
 not to fall

00:17:16.879 --> 00:17:17.819
 back and go

00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:18.460
 to the synagogue

00:17:18.460 --> 00:17:19.779
 to stick with

00:17:19.779 --> 00:17:20.639
 Jesus Christ.

00:17:20.779 --> 00:17:21.980
 And it's a

00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:22.920
 wonderful epistle

00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:25.200
 and full of

00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:26.099
 very rich

00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:26.740
 things.

00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:28.839
 So Paul spent

00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:29.639
 a lot of time

00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:30.380
 talking about

00:17:30.380 --> 00:17:30.920
 unity.

00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:32.540
 And of course

00:17:32.540 --> 00:17:33.240
 it needs to be

00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:33.920
 said that

00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:35.620
 Paul had no

00:17:35.620 --> 00:17:37.620
 idea about

00:17:37.620 --> 00:17:42.000
 ecumenism.

00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:44.220
 He didn't

00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:45.400
 have any idea

00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:46.060
 that, you know,

00:17:46.100 --> 00:17:46.800
 the church would

00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:47.960
 unfold and there

00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:49.160
 would be a big

00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:50.140
 break between

00:17:50.140 --> 00:17:50.980
 Roman Catholics

00:17:50.980 --> 00:17:52.060
 and Protestants.

00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:52.680
 He didn't know

00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:53.500
 that Protestants

00:17:53.500 --> 00:17:54.220
 would fall out

00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:54.800
 with each other

00:17:54.800 --> 00:17:55.420
 and Baptists

00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:56.060
 are going one

00:17:56.060 --> 00:17:56.660
 direction,

00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:57.880
 Methodists are

00:17:57.880 --> 00:17:58.380
 going another

00:17:58.380 --> 00:17:59.120
 direction.

00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:00.140
 and the

00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:00.640
 URC,

00:18:01.280 --> 00:18:01.880
 I'm not quite

00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:02.400
 sure which

00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.020
 direction.

00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:04.240
 He didn't

00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:04.780
 know anything

00:18:04.780 --> 00:18:05.560
 about that.

00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:06.040
 Though there

00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:06.500
 is some

00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:07.240
 evidence in

00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:07.780
 Paul's

00:18:07.780 --> 00:18:09.259
 letters and

00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:09.800
 in the Acts

00:18:09.800 --> 00:18:10.700
 of the Apostles

00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:11.560
 that he did

00:18:11.560 --> 00:18:12.120
 encourage

00:18:12.120 --> 00:18:13.160
 congregations to

00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:14.140
 take responsibility

00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:15.040
 for each other.

00:18:15.460 --> 00:18:16.200
 If they had a

00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:17.200
 financial need,

00:18:17.320 --> 00:18:17.880
 Paul would say,

00:18:17.980 --> 00:18:18.600
 well let's try

00:18:18.600 --> 00:18:19.620
 and help them

00:18:19.620 --> 00:18:20.140
 out there.

00:18:20.140 --> 00:18:22.000
 But what he's

00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:22.880
 really talking

00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.780
 about is the

00:18:24.780 --> 00:18:25.759
 local church

00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:30.259
 of which you

00:18:30.259 --> 00:18:31.560
 are members.

00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:33.280
 So it

00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:35.100
 addresses people

00:18:35.100 --> 00:18:35.920
 like us who

00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:36.980
 are members of

00:18:36.980 --> 00:18:38.680
 local churches.

00:18:39.820 --> 00:18:41.100
 And, okay,

00:18:41.300 --> 00:18:41.880
 you know, if you

00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:42.820
 are ecumenically

00:18:42.820 --> 00:18:44.420
 minded, I mean,

00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:45.140
 there was no

00:18:45.140 --> 00:18:46.680
 kind of churches

00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:47.400
 together in

00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:47.820
 Ephesus.

00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:50.220
 There was the

00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:50.680
 church in

00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:51.060
 Ephesus.

00:18:52.580 --> 00:18:53.860
 And today,

00:18:53.980 --> 00:18:54.600
 because of our

00:18:54.600 --> 00:18:55.900
 denominationalism,

00:18:56.500 --> 00:18:57.440
 we have to

00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:58.560
 try and form

00:18:58.560 --> 00:18:59.400
 some structures

00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:00.080
 that try and

00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:00.860
 get us together

00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:01.640
 to talk to

00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:01.980
 one another.

00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:02.539
 I think, I

00:19:02.539 --> 00:19:03.559
 mean, I may

00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:03.980
 be wrong

00:19:03.980 --> 00:19:04.440
 about this.

00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:05.160
 I have very

00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.059
 little enthusiasm

00:19:07.059 --> 00:19:08.860
 for heavy

00:19:08.860 --> 00:19:09.720
 ecumenical

00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:10.360
 machinery.

00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:11.500
 But I think

00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:12.019
 it's really

00:19:12.019 --> 00:19:12.960
 important that

00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:13.819
 churches work

00:19:13.819 --> 00:19:14.259
 together.

00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:18.140
 And, you

00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:18.599
 know, that's

00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.180
 why I was

00:19:20.180 --> 00:19:21.140
 delighted when

00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:21.839
 Tim, who was

00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:22.380
 the then

00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:23.200
 chairman of

00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:24.079
 Churches

00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:24.519
 Together,

00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:26.559
 gave me

00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:28.220
 permission to

00:19:28.220 --> 00:19:29.120
 get the

00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:30.259
 imprimatur of

00:19:30.259 --> 00:19:31.039
 churches together

00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:31.779
 in Clevedon

00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:32.480
 to run this

00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:32.899
 event.

00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:33.819
 And Peter

00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:35.019
 Kemba, his

00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:35.799
 successor, has

00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:36.559
 been equally

00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.299
 gracious in

00:19:38.299 --> 00:19:39.119
 relation to

00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.480
 that.

00:19:39.879 --> 00:19:40.639
 Because I

00:19:40.639 --> 00:19:41.220
 believe that

00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:42.319
 when we get

00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:42.899
 to know each

00:19:42.899 --> 00:19:43.379
 other, when we

00:19:43.379 --> 00:19:44.200
 get together,

00:19:45.159 --> 00:19:46.079
 that can only

00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:46.700
 be good.

00:19:48.019 --> 00:19:48.720
 If we could

00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.659
 even plan

00:19:49.659 --> 00:19:50.740
 together, it

00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:51.379
 would even be

00:19:51.379 --> 00:19:51.759
 better.

00:19:53.019 --> 00:19:53.399
 So we

00:19:53.399 --> 00:19:53.779
 wouldn't do

00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:54.799
 duplication.

00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.460
 And, yeah, I

00:19:57.460 --> 00:19:58.000
 was saying

00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.159
 that, talking

00:20:00.159 --> 00:20:01.859
 beforehand with

00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:04.480
 somebody and

00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:05.740
 saying that, you

00:20:05.740 --> 00:20:06.200
 know, a couple

00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:06.980
 of churches that

00:20:06.980 --> 00:20:07.599
 I'm familiar

00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:08.299
 with, one of

00:20:08.299 --> 00:20:08.859
 which was

00:20:08.859 --> 00:20:09.299
 Philip

00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:10.039
 Gennady's

00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:10.559
 church, who's

00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:10.940
 coming to

00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:11.460
 talk to you

00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:12.039
 next week,

00:20:12.740 --> 00:20:13.740
 and Ed

00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:14.619
 Shaw's church.

00:20:15.619 --> 00:20:16.559
 I mean, there

00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:17.419
 was a time when

00:20:17.419 --> 00:20:18.639
 everybody wanted

00:20:18.639 --> 00:20:19.460
 to set up a

00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:20.059
 church in the

00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:20.480
 centre of

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:20.859
 Bristol.

00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:22.559
 You know, the

00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:23.259
 sad thing was

00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:24.699
 nobody talked

00:20:24.699 --> 00:20:25.339
 to each other

00:20:25.339 --> 00:20:25.959
 at all.

00:20:27.139 --> 00:20:27.919
 We only heard

00:20:27.919 --> 00:20:28.819
 about this when

00:20:28.819 --> 00:20:29.399
 yet another

00:20:29.399 --> 00:20:30.819
 church showed

00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:32.059
 up and set

00:20:32.059 --> 00:20:32.179
 up.

00:20:32.219 --> 00:20:32.759
 We had people

00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:33.299
 coming from

00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:35.859
 Swansea, you

00:20:35.859 --> 00:20:36.240
 know, called

00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:36.899
 by God to

00:20:36.899 --> 00:20:37.339
 Bristol.

00:20:37.979 --> 00:20:38.759
 I'm not saying

00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:39.159
 they're not.

00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:39.979
 I'm saying it

00:20:39.979 --> 00:20:40.240
 wouldn't have

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:40.899
 been better if

00:20:40.899 --> 00:20:41.279
 we could have

00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:41.859
 planned all

00:20:41.859 --> 00:20:42.439
 this together.

00:20:44.439 --> 00:20:45.219
 I think we're

00:20:45.219 --> 00:20:46.000
 a long way from

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:46.979
 that, sadly, and

00:20:46.979 --> 00:20:47.819
 I would love to

00:20:47.819 --> 00:20:48.639
 see an improvement

00:20:48.639 --> 00:20:49.959
 in our town here

00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:51.059
 in Clevedon.

00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:52.940
 Paul spent a

00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:53.900
 long time talking

00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:56.460
 about unity, and

00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:58.180
 just a final point

00:20:58.180 --> 00:20:59.140
 on the unity of

00:20:59.140 --> 00:20:59.640
 the church.

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:01.579
 Do you remember

00:21:01.579 --> 00:21:05.079
 that Psalm 133

00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.660
 verse 1, where

00:21:07.660 --> 00:21:08.840
 the psalmist says

00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:10.240
 hundreds of years

00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:11.920
 before Paul put

00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:13.140
 pen to paper in

00:21:13.140 --> 00:21:15.019
 prison in Rome,

00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:17.299
 how good and how

00:21:17.299 --> 00:21:18.539
 pleasant it is when

00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:20.039
 brothers and

00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:21.500
 sisters dwell

00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:22.339
 together in

00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:22.819
 unity?

00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:25.019
 I mean, I don't

00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:25.619
 quite get the

00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:26.299
 analogy there.

00:21:26.379 --> 00:21:26.920
 It says it's like

00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:27.559
 the oil on

00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:28.399
 Aaron's beard.

00:21:29.159 --> 00:21:29.700
 I don't want to

00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.399
 think about that,

00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:33.619
 but the point is

00:21:33.619 --> 00:21:34.799
 there is this

00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:36.339
 call in the

00:21:36.339 --> 00:21:37.879
 New Testament

00:21:37.879 --> 00:21:39.379
 for local

00:21:39.379 --> 00:21:40.940
 congregations to

00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:41.859
 work hard at

00:21:41.859 --> 00:21:42.759
 maintaining the

00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:43.740
 unity which is

00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:44.099
 our gift.

00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:46.599
 Why is it a

00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:47.139
 gift that's

00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:47.440
 given?

00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:48.380
 Well, Paul's

00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:49.040
 argument would

00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:50.300
 be once we

00:21:50.300 --> 00:21:51.820
 become Christians,

00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:53.140
 once we become

00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:54.640
 baptized Christians,

00:21:54.860 --> 00:21:55.340
 born-again

00:21:55.340 --> 00:21:55.880
 Christians,

00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.200
 whatever phrase

00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:57.880
 you want to put

00:21:57.880 --> 00:21:58.520
 next to that,

00:21:58.840 --> 00:21:59.900
 we are all in

00:21:59.900 --> 00:22:00.340
 Christ.

00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:01.960
 That means that

00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:03.840
 what joins us

00:22:03.840 --> 00:22:05.020
 is far greater

00:22:05.020 --> 00:22:05.700
 than that which

00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:06.540
 divides us.

00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:10.320
 So how can we

00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:11.680
 endeavor to

00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:12.880
 maintain unity?

00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.800
 I think that's

00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:17.040
 a very

00:22:17.040 --> 00:22:18.200
 important question.

00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:19.520
 I mean, these

00:22:19.520 --> 00:22:20.800
 are just my

00:22:20.800 --> 00:22:23.040
 potentially

00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:24.460
 pathetic ideas.

00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:26.020
 The first

00:22:26.020 --> 00:22:26.620
 thing I would

00:22:26.620 --> 00:22:27.300
 say is

00:22:27.300 --> 00:22:28.740
 church unity

00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:29.840
 is made a

00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:30.720
 lot easier

00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.500
 when we have

00:22:32.500 --> 00:22:33.280
 an agreement

00:22:33.280 --> 00:22:34.080
 on what the

00:22:34.080 --> 00:22:35.100
 ultimate source

00:22:35.100 --> 00:22:35.920
 of authority

00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:36.620
 within the

00:22:36.620 --> 00:22:37.260
 church is.

00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:40.779
 I have no

00:22:40.779 --> 00:22:41.599
 doubt in my

00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:43.099
 mind that the

00:22:43.099 --> 00:22:44.240
 primary source

00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:44.879
 of authority

00:22:44.879 --> 00:22:45.319
 in the

00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:46.400
 church is

00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:46.980
 this book.

00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:49.099
 I'm not

00:22:49.099 --> 00:22:49.599
 going to quote

00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:50.180
 you from the

00:22:50.180 --> 00:22:51.200
 39 articles,

00:22:51.460 --> 00:22:52.500
 but in

00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:53.279
 theory the

00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:53.720
 Church of

00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:54.200
 England is

00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:55.299
 committed not

00:22:55.299 --> 00:22:56.539
 to believe or

00:22:56.539 --> 00:22:57.599
 indulge in any

00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:59.039
 practice which

00:22:59.039 --> 00:22:59.700
 is, and I

00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:00.160
 quote the

00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.019
 39 articles of

00:23:02.019 --> 00:23:02.420
 religion,

00:23:02.859 --> 00:23:03.940
 repugnant to

00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:04.660
 God's word.

00:23:04.660 --> 00:23:07.680
 And yet, I

00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:09.100
 see Church of

00:23:09.100 --> 00:23:09.920
 England churches

00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:11.519
 certainly, I

00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:12.820
 think, indulging

00:23:12.820 --> 00:23:13.620
 in very

00:23:13.620 --> 00:23:14.480
 repugnant

00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:15.580
 conversations

00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:17.920
 about how, you

00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:18.580
 know, we

00:23:18.580 --> 00:23:19.740
 will exist into

00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:20.400
 the future.

00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:22.040
 But I think

00:23:22.040 --> 00:23:23.040
 unity, one of

00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:23.900
 the primary

00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:25.200
 bases of

00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:26.360
 unity is we

00:23:26.360 --> 00:23:26.779
 have to have

00:23:26.779 --> 00:23:27.540
 some agreement

00:23:27.540 --> 00:23:28.019
 on the

00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:28.880
 ultimate source

00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:29.560
 of authority

00:23:29.560 --> 00:23:30.160
 in the

00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:30.580
 church.

00:23:32.120 --> 00:23:32.640
 I mean, I

00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:33.120
 don't know,

00:23:33.340 --> 00:23:33.840
 I've never

00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:34.460
 done a poll

00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:34.779
 on this.

00:23:34.819 --> 00:23:35.180
 I don't know

00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:35.660
 how many

00:23:35.660 --> 00:23:36.600
 Roman Catholics

00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.240
 would say,

00:23:37.340 --> 00:23:37.779
 if you ask

00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:38.079
 them that

00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:39.279
 question, well

00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:39.900
 it's obvious,

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:40.340
 it's the

00:23:40.340 --> 00:23:40.660
 Pope.

00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:42.759
 I don't know

00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:43.160
 if they would

00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:43.960
 say that in

00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:44.940
 the 21st

00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:45.519
 century, but

00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:45.940
 I mean, in

00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:46.640
 days past,

00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:47.799
 loyalty to the

00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:48.360
 Pope was

00:23:48.360 --> 00:23:48.980
 everything.

00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:51.460
 Secondly, there

00:23:51.460 --> 00:23:52.039
 has to be a

00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:53.039
 commitment to

00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:53.680
 knowing one

00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.079
 another.

00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:55.840
 I've never

00:23:55.840 --> 00:23:56.940
 forgotten when I

00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:57.660
 was first in

00:23:57.660 --> 00:23:58.440
 a local church

00:23:58.440 --> 00:23:59.360
 ministry, and

00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:01.120
 people who'd

00:24:01.120 --> 00:24:01.579
 been in the

00:24:01.579 --> 00:24:02.059
 church for

00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:02.799
 years would

00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:03.420
 comment on

00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:04.180
 somebody else

00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:04.700
 who'd been in

00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:05.320
 the church for

00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:05.779
 years.

00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:07.039
 And they'd

00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:08.060
 say, do you

00:24:08.060 --> 00:24:08.779
 know who

00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:10.100
 Mary is?

00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:11.080
 And I'd say,

00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:11.700
 which one?

00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:12.920
 They'd say, that

00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:13.539
 one who wears

00:24:13.539 --> 00:24:14.240
 that ridiculous

00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:15.279
 hat on Sundays.

00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:17.539
 I said, do you

00:24:17.539 --> 00:24:18.000
 know her name?

00:24:18.060 --> 00:24:18.300
 No.

00:24:19.120 --> 00:24:19.740
 How long have you

00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:20.400
 been coming here?

00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:21.279
 Well, since I was

00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:21.860
 eight years old.

00:24:21.860 --> 00:24:22.640
 How old are you?

00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:23.120
 75.

00:24:25.460 --> 00:24:26.000
 I said, you

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:26.560
 don't know her

00:24:26.560 --> 00:24:26.860
 name.

00:24:27.460 --> 00:24:28.300
 And I thought

00:24:28.300 --> 00:24:29.080
 to myself, there's

00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:29.980
 work to be done

00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:30.299
 here.

00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:32.679
 So knowing

00:24:32.679 --> 00:24:34.099
 one another is

00:24:34.099 --> 00:24:35.159
 good for us.

00:24:35.859 --> 00:24:36.819
 It helps us.

00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:40.879
 Well, I think

00:24:40.879 --> 00:24:41.419
 this, you know,

00:24:42.159 --> 00:24:43.679
 this psychologist

00:24:43.679 --> 00:24:45.079
 wrote a book and

00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:45.619
 said, the trouble

00:24:45.619 --> 00:24:46.279
 is when you get a

00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:48.220
 bit older, you

00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:49.159
 don't like anybody.

00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.419
 And what he

00:24:52.419 --> 00:24:53.339
 meant was, if you

00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:54.439
 think about people

00:24:54.439 --> 00:24:55.679
 generically, you

00:24:55.679 --> 00:24:56.480
 know, you go to

00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:57.480
 the airport and

00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:58.079
 you see the

00:24:58.079 --> 00:24:58.740
 pathetic way

00:24:58.740 --> 00:24:59.440
 people have to

00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:00.400
 queue, even

00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:00.740
 though they've

00:25:00.740 --> 00:25:01.339
 got a seat on

00:25:01.339 --> 00:25:02.099
 the plane and

00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:03.180
 all that stuff.

00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:04.500
 Or, you know, you

00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:06.000
 see a big pile of

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.120
 fly tipping and

00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:08.680
 you think, oh,

00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:10.700
 you know, this is

00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:11.660
 the human race and

00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:12.500
 I'm part of it.

00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.059
 And I'm sure that

00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:15.759
 those of you who've

00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:16.880
 worked in kind of

00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:17.819
 services like

00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:18.839
 paramedics and the

00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:20.640
 police have, you

00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.539
 know, seen terrible

00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:22.960
 behaviour from human

00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:23.360
 beings.

00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:23.880
 And what the

00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:24.920
 psychiatrist is

00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:26.440
 saying is, we

00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:27.460
 generally, you

00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:28.539
 don't like other

00:25:28.539 --> 00:25:28.819
 people.

00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:29.500
 In fact, I think he

00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:30.200
 uses the phrase

00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:30.900
 that generally we

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:31.500
 hate people.

00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:33.420
 But within that,

00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:34.680
 there are people

00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:35.160
 who are very

00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:36.400
 important to us.

00:25:38.360 --> 00:25:40.559
 And I don't

00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:40.900
 think the

00:25:40.900 --> 00:25:41.640
 psychiatrist is

00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:42.180
 quite right.

00:25:42.259 --> 00:25:42.839
 But what I do

00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:46.220
 know is that a

00:25:46.220 --> 00:25:47.240
 commitment, not

00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.259
 just to Gordon

00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:50.079
 Jones and his

00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:50.839
 excellent book

00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:51.940
 written years ago,

00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:52.500
 you can't get

00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:53.180
 hold of it now,

00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:53.860
 but he said,

00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:55.519
 too many churches

00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:57.460
 behave like a

00:25:57.460 --> 00:25:59.960
 kind of snooker

00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:01.140
 table where the

00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:01.940
 balls on the

00:26:01.940 --> 00:26:02.740
 table just kiss

00:26:02.740 --> 00:26:03.500
 off each other.

00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:05.360
 There's no

00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:07.360
 commitment to

00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:08.160
 really get to

00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:08.920
 know one

00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:09.299
 another.

00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:11.380
 I used to think

00:26:11.380 --> 00:26:12.000
 that one of the

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.360
 wonderful things

00:26:13.360 --> 00:26:15.460
 that happened in

00:26:15.460 --> 00:26:16.279
 the church where I

00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:16.920
 was is we used

00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:17.620
 to have weekends

00:26:17.620 --> 00:26:18.420
 away together.

00:26:20.019 --> 00:26:20.860
 And they were

00:26:20.860 --> 00:26:22.180
 just very special

00:26:22.180 --> 00:26:22.620
 times.

00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:23.240
 I mean, I can't

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:23.960
 tell you how

00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:25.460
 special they were

00:26:25.460 --> 00:26:26.579
 in terms of

00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:27.400
 people getting

00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:28.100
 to know one

00:26:28.100 --> 00:26:28.500
 another.

00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.299
 And I

00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:31.900
 remember once

00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:32.259
 we were at

00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:33.220
 this place

00:26:33.220 --> 00:26:33.980
 called Pilgrim

00:26:33.980 --> 00:26:34.620
 Hall in

00:26:34.620 --> 00:26:35.100
 Sussex.

00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:37.980
 And in the

00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:38.400
 middle of the

00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:38.799
 night the

00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:39.420
 fire alarm

00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:39.680
 went.

00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:42.180
 I tell you,

00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:42.819
 you really get

00:26:42.819 --> 00:26:43.140
 to know

00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:43.860
 parishioners when

00:26:43.860 --> 00:26:44.400
 you see what

00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:44.940
 they wear in

00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:45.240
 bed.

00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:47.240
 We had this

00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:48.200
 city slicker

00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:48.680
 with us,

00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.279
 Mike.

00:26:50.120 --> 00:26:50.460
 I don't know

00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:51.019
 how he managed

00:26:51.019 --> 00:26:51.640
 this, but he

00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:52.660
 managed to get

00:26:52.660 --> 00:26:53.360
 out of bed and

00:26:53.360 --> 00:26:54.059
 get down within

00:26:54.059 --> 00:26:54.720
 about 90

00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.339
 seconds and

00:26:55.339 --> 00:26:55.700
 he's got a

00:26:55.700 --> 00:26:56.539
 three-piece suit

00:26:56.539 --> 00:26:58.259
 on, shirt

00:26:58.259 --> 00:26:58.839
 and tie.

00:27:01.179 --> 00:27:02.480
 So, agreement

00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:03.319
 and the ultimate

00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:03.819
 source of

00:27:03.819 --> 00:27:04.359
 authority, a

00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:05.019
 commitment to

00:27:05.019 --> 00:27:05.359
 knowing one.

00:27:05.419 --> 00:27:06.000
 And thirdly,

00:27:06.679 --> 00:27:08.819
 I think, and

00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:10.099
 again, not

00:27:10.099 --> 00:27:11.139
 many churches

00:27:11.139 --> 00:27:11.980
 have a very

00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:13.480
 formal process

00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:14.099
 for this.

00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:15.639
 And if they

00:27:15.639 --> 00:27:16.599
 do, I would

00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:17.700
 say nine times

00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:18.480
 out of ten, it's

00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.059
 not a very

00:27:19.059 --> 00:27:20.399
 biblical process.

00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:21.800
 But what

00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:22.440
 churches need

00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:22.840
 to do is

00:27:22.840 --> 00:27:24.259
 provide a

00:27:24.259 --> 00:27:25.420
 just forum

00:27:25.420 --> 00:27:26.940
 for interpersonal

00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:27.920
 disputes to

00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:28.640
 get sorted

00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:29.360
 out and

00:27:29.360 --> 00:27:30.200
 sorted out

00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:30.540
 soon.

00:27:34.100 --> 00:27:36.700
 And, see, I

00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:37.019
 think the

00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:37.780
 Bible has a

00:27:37.780 --> 00:27:38.600
 way to deal

00:27:38.600 --> 00:27:39.640
 with this and

00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:40.080
 what the

00:27:40.080 --> 00:27:40.640
 Bible would

00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:41.380
 encourage us

00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:42.180
 to do, you

00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:42.519
 can read

00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:43.300
 about this in

00:27:43.300 --> 00:27:44.420
 the Sermon on

00:27:44.420 --> 00:27:44.920
 the Mount,

00:27:45.259 --> 00:27:48.000
 is firstly, if

00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:48.380
 we have a

00:27:48.380 --> 00:27:48.960
 dispute, we

00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:49.540
 try and sort

00:27:49.540 --> 00:27:49.860
 it out

00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:50.279
 together.

00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:52.279
 If we

00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:52.779
 can't sort

00:27:52.779 --> 00:27:53.759
 it out, we

00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:54.779
 go to one

00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:55.779
 of the elders

00:27:55.779 --> 00:27:56.759
 of the church,

00:27:57.199 --> 00:27:58.000
 whatever that

00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:58.559
 means within

00:27:58.559 --> 00:27:59.539
 your denomination,

00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:00.299
 and ask them

00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:00.959
 to help you

00:28:00.959 --> 00:28:01.699
 sort it out.

00:28:03.879 --> 00:28:04.679
 And the

00:28:04.679 --> 00:28:05.259
 third thing

00:28:05.259 --> 00:28:06.199
 is, and

00:28:06.199 --> 00:28:06.979
 this remains

00:28:06.979 --> 00:28:07.579
 both an

00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:08.339
 incentive and

00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:09.039
 a threat, is

00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.000
 that if the

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:10.559
 elders and

00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:11.099
 you can't

00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:11.659
 sort it out,

00:28:11.699 --> 00:28:12.299
 it becomes a

00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:13.019
 congregational

00:28:13.019 --> 00:28:13.379
 matter.

00:28:16.659 --> 00:28:17.439
 And, I

00:28:17.439 --> 00:28:18.240
 mean, in

00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:19.000
 my view, that

00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:19.839
 would need

00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:21.879
 to be a

00:28:21.879 --> 00:28:22.359
 kind of

00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:23.240
 organised

00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:25.139
 process for

00:28:25.139 --> 00:28:26.119
 sorting disputes

00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:26.399
 out.

00:28:26.859 --> 00:28:27.399
 What happens

00:28:27.399 --> 00:28:27.859
 in most

00:28:27.859 --> 00:28:28.619
 churches is

00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:29.459
 interpersonal

00:28:29.459 --> 00:28:30.439
 disputes never

00:28:30.439 --> 00:28:31.039
 get sorted

00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:31.399
 out.

00:28:32.740 --> 00:28:33.459
 It's a terrible

00:28:33.459 --> 00:28:33.959
 thing, isn't it?

00:28:33.980 --> 00:28:34.519
 There are people,

00:28:34.699 --> 00:28:35.299
 I can tell you

00:28:35.299 --> 00:28:35.779
 this, you know,

00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:36.639
 I've been around

00:28:36.639 --> 00:28:37.839
 more churches

00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:38.419
 than most of

00:28:38.419 --> 00:28:38.859
 you had hot

00:28:38.859 --> 00:28:39.259
 dinners.

00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:41.679
 There are people

00:28:41.679 --> 00:28:42.559
 in churches who've

00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:43.319
 hated each other

00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:43.899
 for years.

00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:46.199
 Hated.

00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.799
 wouldn't talk to

00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:49.279
 them, wouldn't go

00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:49.720
 around their

00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:50.220
 house, would

00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:50.660
 never do

00:28:50.660 --> 00:28:51.460
 anything like

00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:51.759
 that.

00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:53.240
 And of course,

00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:54.180
 this starts from

00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:55.380
 a very obvious

00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:56.460
 and pertinent

00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:57.200
 observation.

00:28:58.660 --> 00:28:59.720
 You've noticed

00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:00.920
 that we're all

00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:01.259
 different.

00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:05.360
 You may have

00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:06.200
 noticed that

00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:07.180
 there are people

00:29:07.180 --> 00:29:08.120
 and just on,

00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:09.160
 in terms of

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:10.720
 visual presence,

00:29:11.059 --> 00:29:11.819
 you've decided

00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:12.519
 you don't like

00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:12.720
 them.

00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.279
 that's a kind

00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:16.140
 of given of

00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:16.900
 our fallen

00:29:16.900 --> 00:29:18.000
 humanity, I

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.380
 think.

00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:19.640
 But to

00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:20.079
 recognise

00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:20.819
 difference,

00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:21.400
 which is what

00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:21.779
 I'm coming

00:29:21.779 --> 00:29:22.600
 on to now,

00:29:23.120 --> 00:29:23.880
 I think is

00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.880
 really helpful

00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:25.700
 and important.

00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:27.360
 And to give

00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:27.980
 thanks for

00:29:27.980 --> 00:29:28.360
 difference.

00:29:28.539 --> 00:29:29.319
 I'm not here

00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:29.980
 talking about

00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:30.700
 a secular

00:29:30.700 --> 00:29:33.880
 model of

00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:34.400
 inclusion.

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:35.160
 I'm talking

00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:35.779
 about a

00:29:35.779 --> 00:29:36.160
 biblical

00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:37.980
 understanding

00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:38.960
 of how we

00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:40.059
 might improve

00:29:40.059 --> 00:29:40.819
 the unity

00:29:40.819 --> 00:29:42.279
 factor in our

00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:42.819
 churches.

00:29:43.779 --> 00:29:44.480
 So Paul

00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:46.200
 talks about

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:47.539
 the unity

00:29:47.539 --> 00:29:48.279
 of the church

00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:48.839
 and then he

00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:49.420
 goes on,

00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:50.319
 and this kind

00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:50.839
 of does your

00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:51.579
 head in a bit,

00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:52.500
 he goes on

00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:53.000
 about the

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.559
 diversity of

00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:55.119
 the church.

00:29:55.700 --> 00:29:56.460
 What Paul is

00:29:56.460 --> 00:29:57.240
 talking about

00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.940
 here in

00:29:58.940 --> 00:29:59.700
 verse 7

00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:00.180
 is the

00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:00.899
 diversity

00:30:00.899 --> 00:30:02.259
 in our

00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:03.079
 giftedness.

00:30:04.259 --> 00:30:05.079
 He's talking

00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:06.440
 about spiritual

00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:06.920
 gifts,

00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:07.399
 what the

00:30:07.399 --> 00:30:08.019
 Bible,

00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:09.099
 the Greek

00:30:09.099 --> 00:30:09.839
 refers to

00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:11.160
 as charismata,

00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:12.940
 where our

00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:13.800
 word charismatic

00:30:13.800 --> 00:30:15.000
 comes from,

00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:16.580
 although these

00:30:16.580 --> 00:30:17.240
 days the word

00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:18.400
 charismatic has

00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:19.380
 been applied to

00:30:19.380 --> 00:30:20.340
 a certain kind

00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:21.160
 of leadership.

00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:25.779
 And Paul

00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:27.160
 in Ephesians

00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:28.880
 4 doesn't

00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.580
 particularly talk

00:30:30.580 --> 00:30:31.720
 about gifts

00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:32.480
 in the same

00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.360
 way that he

00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:35.060
 talks about

00:30:35.060 --> 00:30:35.420
 them in

00:30:35.420 --> 00:30:36.279
 Romans 12

00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:37.420
 and 1

00:30:37.420 --> 00:30:38.000
 Corinthians

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:38.660
 12.

00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:39.960
 But what

00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:40.480
 he does

00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:41.579
 do is

00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:44.359
 he talks

00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:45.680
 about what

00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:46.119
 I would

00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:47.039
 call orders

00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:47.720
 of ministry

00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:48.200
 which are

00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:48.940
 given as

00:30:48.940 --> 00:30:49.619
 gifts to

00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:50.240
 the church.

00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:51.839
 And it

00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:52.220
 says it

00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:52.799
 was he,

00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:53.180
 that is

00:30:53.180 --> 00:30:53.539
 Jesus,

00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:54.079
 who gave

00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:54.539
 some to

00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:55.140
 be apostles,

00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:55.799
 some to

00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:56.339
 be prophets,

00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:57.460
 some to

00:30:57.460 --> 00:30:58.319
 be evangelists,

00:30:58.400 --> 00:30:58.740
 and some

00:30:58.740 --> 00:30:59.640
 to be pastors

00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:01.160
 and teachers

00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:02.279
 to prepare

00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:03.240
 God's people

00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:04.500
 for works

00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:05.160
 of service

00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:05.799
 so that the

00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:06.279
 body of

00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:07.399
 Christ may

00:31:07.399 --> 00:31:07.859
 be built

00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:08.399
 up until

00:31:08.399 --> 00:31:09.019
 we all

00:31:09.019 --> 00:31:09.399
 know,

00:31:09.819 --> 00:31:10.480
 all know,

00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:11.559
 sorry,

00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:12.240
 all reach

00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:13.059
 unity in

00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:13.539
 the faith

00:31:13.539 --> 00:31:13.879
 and in

00:31:13.879 --> 00:31:14.480
 the knowledge

00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:15.319
 of the

00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:15.720
 Son of

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:16.039
 God.

00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.039
 If you

00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:22.500
 wanted some

00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:23.059
 homework,

00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:23.440
 I mean,

00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:24.160
 just take a

00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:24.879
 glance of

00:31:24.879 --> 00:31:25.639
 what Paul

00:31:25.639 --> 00:31:26.639
 outlines in

00:31:26.639 --> 00:31:27.619
 Romans 12

00:31:27.619 --> 00:31:28.519
 and 1

00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:29.539
 Corinthians 12

00:31:29.539 --> 00:31:30.240
 in terms of

00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:30.420
 gifts.

00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:31.759
 And I

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:31.920
 mean,

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:32.420
 some of

00:31:32.420 --> 00:31:32.619
 you,

00:31:32.779 --> 00:31:33.059
 you know,

00:31:33.139 --> 00:31:33.579
 I know

00:31:33.579 --> 00:31:34.200
 that your

00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:34.720
 kind of

00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:35.460
 weird meter

00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:36.299
 starts to

00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:36.759
 flicker

00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:37.559
 at even

00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:38.100
 the thought

00:31:38.100 --> 00:31:38.759
 of spiritual

00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:39.360
 gifts because

00:31:39.360 --> 00:31:39.779
 you think

00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:40.240
 of people

00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:40.980
 speaking in

00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:41.660
 tongues or

00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:42.759
 people

00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:43.539
 prophesying

00:31:43.539 --> 00:31:43.960
 stuff.

00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:44.579
 And these

00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:45.779
 are not

00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:46.420
 unimportant

00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:46.960
 gifts.

00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:48.920
 In fact,

00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:50.440
 Paul encourages

00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:51.340
 us to seek

00:31:51.340 --> 00:31:51.819
 the higher

00:31:51.819 --> 00:31:52.299
 gifts.

00:31:53.779 --> 00:31:54.380
 But,

00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.279
 here's the

00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:56.539
 thing.

00:31:57.400 --> 00:31:57.860
 Some of

00:31:57.860 --> 00:31:58.519
 those gifts

00:31:58.519 --> 00:31:59.500
 are what

00:31:59.500 --> 00:31:59.880
 you might

00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:00.420
 call

00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:02.259
 ordinary

00:32:02.259 --> 00:32:02.779
 gifts.

00:32:02.779 --> 00:32:03.420
 So,

00:32:04.059 --> 00:32:04.759
 in Romans

00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:05.319
 is the

00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:05.920
 gift of

00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:06.740
 administration.

00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:10.779
 I can

00:32:10.779 --> 00:32:11.359
 tell you

00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:12.399
 from my

00:32:12.399 --> 00:32:13.099
 experience

00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:13.559
 that a

00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:14.079
 church that

00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:14.519
 gets its

00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:15.139
 administration

00:32:15.139 --> 00:32:17.940
 right is

00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:18.319
 rare,

00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.399
 but it's

00:32:21.399 --> 00:32:21.759
 brilliant.

00:32:23.099 --> 00:32:23.819
 And people

00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:24.240
 who have

00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:24.700
 gifts of

00:32:24.700 --> 00:32:25.500
 administration

00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:26.680
 should be

00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:27.500
 valued just

00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:28.200
 as much as

00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:28.899
 people who

00:32:28.899 --> 00:32:29.220
 have got

00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:29.720
 gifts of

00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:30.759
 prophecy or

00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:32.039
 discernment or

00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:32.819
 these things.

00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:36.099
 And do

00:32:36.099 --> 00:32:36.619
 you good to

00:32:36.619 --> 00:32:37.039
 read through

00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:37.480
 those gifts?

00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:38.000
 Incidentally,

00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:38.839
 I don't think

00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:39.279
 they're meant

00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:40.259
 to be an

00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:41.339
 exhaustive list

00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:41.779
 in either

00:32:41.779 --> 00:32:42.339
 case.

00:32:43.460 --> 00:32:44.480
 Because one

00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:44.879
 of the most

00:32:44.879 --> 00:32:46.019
 important areas

00:32:46.019 --> 00:32:47.019
 of gifting

00:32:47.019 --> 00:32:48.639
 that I

00:32:48.639 --> 00:32:49.319
 discovered

00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:51.559
 was important

00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:52.519
 in the

00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:53.519
 growth of

00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:54.200
 our church

00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:55.720
 were people

00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:56.299
 who had

00:32:56.299 --> 00:32:57.119
 this natural

00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:57.920
 gift of

00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:58.680
 hosting.

00:33:00.339 --> 00:33:01.220
 People whose

00:33:01.220 --> 00:33:02.059
 homes you

00:33:02.059 --> 00:33:02.480
 could go

00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:03.180
 into and

00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:03.440
 you would

00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.380
 feel welcome

00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:06.100
 and these

00:33:06.100 --> 00:33:08.100
 incredible

00:33:08.100 --> 00:33:09.680
 people who

00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:10.279
 can rustle

00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:10.759
 up a meal

00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:11.339
 from nothing

00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:11.799
 in about

00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:12.680
 20 minutes

00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:13.640
 and put it

00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:13.940
 on the

00:33:13.940 --> 00:33:14.319
 table.

00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:14.620
 It's

00:33:14.620 --> 00:33:15.140
 wonderful.

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:16.420
 People who

00:33:16.420 --> 00:33:16.799
 have that

00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:17.559
 gift are a

00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:18.400
 real blessing

00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:19.039
 to a church,

00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:19.759
 particularly a

00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:20.380
 church which

00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:21.059
 wants to get

00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:21.660
 house groups

00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:22.019
 right.

00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:27.240
 so there

00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:27.740
 is a

00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:28.579
 diversity

00:33:28.579 --> 00:33:29.019
 in our

00:33:29.019 --> 00:33:29.759
 giftedness

00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:31.240
 and Paul

00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:32.539
 I think

00:33:32.539 --> 00:33:33.400
 has this

00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:34.960
 big idea

00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:35.879
 that churches

00:33:35.879 --> 00:33:37.000
 work best

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:38.299
 when all

00:33:38.299 --> 00:33:39.099
 the ministries

00:33:39.099 --> 00:33:39.799
 that the

00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:40.440
 church feels

00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:41.220
 called to

00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:41.779
 do are

00:33:41.779 --> 00:33:42.299
 done by

00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:42.819
 people who

00:33:42.819 --> 00:33:43.240
 are gifted

00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:43.720
 to do

00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:44.639
 those ministries.

00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:45.420
 I mean,

00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:46.220
 imagine that.

00:33:46.220 --> 00:33:51.360
 I won't

00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:51.839
 tell you the

00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:52.380
 full story

00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:52.759
 about this

00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:52.960
 guy,

00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:53.180
 but we

00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:53.420
 had a

00:33:53.420 --> 00:33:53.920
 guy called

00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:54.680
 Cyril in

00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:55.339
 my church

00:33:55.339 --> 00:33:55.740
 who,

00:33:56.539 --> 00:33:56.920
 when I

00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:57.460
 first went

00:33:57.460 --> 00:33:57.680
 there,

00:33:57.759 --> 00:33:58.039
 we used

00:33:58.039 --> 00:33:58.360
 to do

00:33:58.360 --> 00:33:58.880
 prayer book

00:33:58.880 --> 00:33:59.539
 even song

00:33:59.539 --> 00:34:00.720
 and it

00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:01.019
 was pretty

00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:01.640
 well attended,

00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:02.380
 about 75

00:34:02.380 --> 00:34:03.299
 people in the

00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:03.920
 congregation

00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:04.900
 on a Sunday

00:34:04.900 --> 00:34:05.339
 evening,

00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:06.600
 which compared

00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:07.180
 to the rest

00:34:07.180 --> 00:34:07.480
 of the

00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:08.199
 deany was

00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:09.320
 pretty good.

00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:12.160
 And up

00:34:12.160 --> 00:34:12.580
 the front

00:34:12.580 --> 00:34:12.900
 there was

00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:13.620
 me in

00:34:13.620 --> 00:34:14.019
 my

00:34:14.019 --> 00:34:14.640
 cassock

00:34:14.640 --> 00:34:15.340
 and surplus

00:34:15.340 --> 00:34:16.760
 and hood

00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:17.120
 and what

00:34:17.120 --> 00:34:17.580
 have you.

00:34:18.580 --> 00:34:20.000
 And the

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:20.519
 only person

00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:20.800
 in the

00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:21.200
 choir was

00:34:21.200 --> 00:34:21.580
 this guy

00:34:21.580 --> 00:34:21.860
 called

00:34:21.860 --> 00:34:22.220
 Cyril.

00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:25.080
 And he

00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:25.360
 used to

00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:25.880
 stand right

00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:26.360
 next to

00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:27.640
 me and

00:34:27.640 --> 00:34:28.460
 sing loudly

00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:30.200
 and on

00:34:30.200 --> 00:34:30.880
 the basis

00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:31.740
 that he,

00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:32.280
 the first

00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:32.519
 thing he

00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:32.880
 would tell

00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:33.180
 you when

00:34:33.180 --> 00:34:33.800
 you entered

00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:34.380
 the church

00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:34.720
 was,

00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:36.400
 I've been

00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:36.680
 in the

00:34:36.680 --> 00:34:37.100
 choir for

00:34:37.100 --> 00:34:38.100
 55 years.

00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:39.960
 You're like,

00:34:40.539 --> 00:34:40.920
 on the

00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:41.860
 same principle

00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:43.480
 that if you

00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:43.820
 gave a

00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:44.280
 monkey a

00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:44.960
 typewriter,

00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:46.539
 eventually it

00:34:46.539 --> 00:34:46.940
 would type

00:34:46.940 --> 00:34:47.519
 a word,

00:34:48.580 --> 00:34:49.000
 you would

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:49.440
 think that

00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:49.760
 with all

00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:50.180
 the hymns

00:34:50.180 --> 00:34:50.680
 he'd sung

00:34:50.680 --> 00:34:51.000
 and all

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:51.440
 the tunes

00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:51.880
 he'd sung,

00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:52.160
 he might

00:34:52.160 --> 00:34:52.640
 occasionally

00:34:52.640 --> 00:34:53.019
 hit a

00:34:53.019 --> 00:34:53.500
 right note,

00:34:53.600 --> 00:34:54.000
 but no.

00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:56.059
 Perish the

00:34:56.059 --> 00:34:56.500
 thought.

00:34:58.460 --> 00:34:59.240
 And it's

00:34:59.240 --> 00:34:59.559
 a great

00:34:59.559 --> 00:34:59.960
 story,

00:35:00.059 --> 00:35:00.360
 I won't

00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:00.720
 bore you

00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:00.980
 with it,

00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:01.940
 but I

00:35:01.940 --> 00:35:02.680
 actually found

00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:03.240
 out that

00:35:03.240 --> 00:35:03.620
 what he

00:35:03.620 --> 00:35:05.500
 loved was

00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:06.960
 a kind

00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:07.600
 of odd

00:35:07.600 --> 00:35:08.240
 job man

00:35:08.240 --> 00:35:09.260
 by mentality

00:35:09.260 --> 00:35:09.660
 and I

00:35:09.660 --> 00:35:09.960
 said to

00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:10.080
 him,

00:35:10.140 --> 00:35:10.500
 you can

00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:11.320
 be the

00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:11.800
 odd job

00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:12.580
 man around

00:35:12.580 --> 00:35:13.120
 the church,

00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:13.360
 you know,

00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:13.680
 as long as

00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:14.100
 you promise

00:35:14.100 --> 00:35:14.520
 to leave

00:35:14.520 --> 00:35:15.000
 the choir.

00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:18.380
 And he

00:35:18.380 --> 00:35:18.700
 did.

00:35:20.140 --> 00:35:21.120
 And he

00:35:21.120 --> 00:35:21.680
 just became

00:35:21.680 --> 00:35:22.160
 a different

00:35:22.160 --> 00:35:22.580
 guy.

00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:23.140
 I mean,

00:35:23.180 --> 00:35:23.440
 he had

00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:24.080
 some stuff

00:35:24.080 --> 00:35:24.380
 in his

00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:24.880
 life which

00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:25.420
 was really

00:35:25.420 --> 00:35:26.020
 hard to

00:35:26.020 --> 00:35:26.540
 live with.

00:35:27.560 --> 00:35:28.320
 But that's

00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:28.960
 Paul's idea.

00:35:29.120 --> 00:35:29.260
 You know,

00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:30.260
 Paul talks

00:35:30.260 --> 00:35:31.120
 about the

00:35:31.120 --> 00:35:31.640
 church as

00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:32.120
 the body

00:35:32.120 --> 00:35:33.240
 and what

00:35:33.240 --> 00:35:33.820
 he sees

00:35:33.820 --> 00:35:34.160
 in the

00:35:34.160 --> 00:35:34.540
 body,

00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:35.840
 I know

00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:36.220
 this gets

00:35:36.220 --> 00:35:36.480
 a bit

00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.000
 harder when

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:37.280
 you get

00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:37.580
 older,

00:35:37.640 --> 00:35:37.920
 but what

00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:38.300
 he saw

00:35:38.300 --> 00:35:38.620
 is a

00:35:38.620 --> 00:35:39.000
 kind of

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:39.539
 unity

00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:39.960
 in the

00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:40.260
 body.

00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:41.800
 So Paul's

00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:42.240
 line is,

00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:42.519
 you know,

00:35:42.600 --> 00:35:42.980
 the foot

00:35:42.980 --> 00:35:43.620
 can't say

00:35:43.620 --> 00:35:43.960
 to the

00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:44.220
 mouth,

00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:44.539
 I'd

00:35:44.539 --> 00:35:45.100
 prefer to

00:35:45.100 --> 00:35:45.420
 be a

00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:45.760
 mouth.

00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:48.900
 And I

00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:49.320
 just want

00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:49.720
 to give a

00:35:49.720 --> 00:35:50.460
 little time,

00:35:50.740 --> 00:35:51.400
 sorry about

00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:51.640
 this,

00:35:51.740 --> 00:35:52.800
 there's I

00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:53.880
 think two

00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:54.519
 problem

00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:56.320
 verses in

00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:56.800
 this little

00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:57.640
 passage from

00:35:57.640 --> 00:35:58.260
 Paul.

00:35:58.700 --> 00:35:59.180
 All this

00:35:59.180 --> 00:35:59.720
 stuff about

00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:00.539
 ascending and

00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:00.940
 descending.

00:36:01.140 --> 00:36:01.620
 What does

00:36:01.620 --> 00:36:02.660
 he ascended

00:36:02.660 --> 00:36:03.580
 mean except

00:36:03.579 --> 00:36:04.679
 that he

00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:05.119
 also

00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.960
 descended

00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:06.480
 to the

00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:06.779
 lower

00:36:06.779 --> 00:36:07.279
 earthly

00:36:07.279 --> 00:36:07.900
 regions?

00:36:08.299 --> 00:36:08.759
 He who

00:36:08.759 --> 00:36:09.460
 descended

00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:09.880
 is the

00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:10.340
 very one

00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:10.500
 who

00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.039
 ascended

00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:11.619
 higher

00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:12.659
 than all

00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:13.179
 the heavens

00:36:13.179 --> 00:36:13.599
 in order

00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:14.239
 to fill

00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:14.799
 the whole

00:36:14.799 --> 00:36:15.599
 universe.

00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:17.460
 Well,

00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:17.679
 there's

00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:18.179
 general

00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:18.960
 agreement

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:19.759
 that when

00:36:19.759 --> 00:36:20.159
 Paul's

00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.799
 talking about

00:36:20.799 --> 00:36:21.340
 ascended

00:36:21.340 --> 00:36:21.599
 there,

00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:22.440
 incidentally,

00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.000
 this quote

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.559
 comes from

00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:27.539
 Psalm 68

00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:29.139
 and verse

00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:29.739
 18.

00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:32.639
 And I'll

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:33.159
 just read

00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:33.699
 that to

00:36:33.699 --> 00:36:34.039
 you.

00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:38.079
 This is

00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:39.139
 Paul quoting

00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:39.800
 from the

00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:41.179
 Old Testament

00:36:41.179 --> 00:36:41.779
 scriptures.

00:36:44.860 --> 00:36:45.759
 Here we

00:36:45.759 --> 00:36:46.039
 go.

00:36:46.699 --> 00:36:48.460
 Psalm 68

00:36:48.460 --> 00:36:49.679
 in verse

00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:50.400
 18.

00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:53.079
 This is

00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:53.679
 Paul writing

00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:53.940
 it,

00:36:54.099 --> 00:36:54.320
 sorry,

00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:55.039
 this is

00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.159
 David

00:36:58.159 --> 00:36:59.099
 writing in

00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:00.019
 Psalm 68.

00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:01.539
 When you

00:37:01.539 --> 00:37:02.380
 ascended on

00:37:02.380 --> 00:37:02.800
 high,

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:03.480
 you led

00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:04.300
 captives in

00:37:04.300 --> 00:37:04.900
 your train

00:37:04.900 --> 00:37:05.279
 and you

00:37:05.279 --> 00:37:06.119
 received gifts

00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:06.699
 from men,

00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:08.500
 even from

00:37:08.500 --> 00:37:09.639
 the rebellious,

00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:10.639
 that you,

00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:11.779
 O Lord God,

00:37:11.900 --> 00:37:12.599
 might dwell

00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:12.980
 there.

00:37:15.259 --> 00:37:15.579
 So,

00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.800
 Paul slightly

00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:18.119
 bends the

00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:18.739
 meaning of

00:37:18.739 --> 00:37:19.279
 this because

00:37:19.279 --> 00:37:19.800
 it says

00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:21.279
 here that

00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:26.100
 you receive

00:37:26.100 --> 00:37:27.040
 gifts from

00:37:27.040 --> 00:37:27.440
 men.

00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:27.920
 Well,

00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:28.400
 actually,

00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:29.180
 the thrust

00:37:29.180 --> 00:37:29.760
 of Paul's

00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:30.340
 comment is

00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:30.840
 that God

00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:31.500
 gives us

00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:32.019
 the gifts,

00:37:32.180 --> 00:37:32.680
 not the

00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:33.060
 other way

00:37:33.060 --> 00:37:33.500
 around.

00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:34.580
 But,

00:37:34.720 --> 00:37:35.760
 so there's

00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:36.040
 general

00:37:36.040 --> 00:37:36.840
 agreement that

00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:37.480
 the word

00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:38.140
 ascended

00:37:38.140 --> 00:37:38.860
 refers to

00:37:38.860 --> 00:37:39.480
 the ascension

00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:40.060
 of Jesus

00:37:40.060 --> 00:37:40.519
 here.

00:37:41.160 --> 00:37:41.680
 Incidentally,

00:37:42.460 --> 00:37:43.019
 Jews who

00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:43.580
 listened to

00:37:43.580 --> 00:37:44.900
 that psalm

00:37:44.900 --> 00:37:46.760
 would have

00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:48.540
 related it

00:37:48.540 --> 00:37:48.940
 to the

00:37:48.940 --> 00:37:49.400
 story of

00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:49.880
 Moses.

00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:51.160
 led his

00:37:51.160 --> 00:37:51.920
 people out

00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:52.680
 of captivity

00:37:52.680 --> 00:37:55.519
 and into

00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:56.119
 the promised

00:37:56.119 --> 00:37:56.640
 land.

00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:58.019
 He led

00:37:58.019 --> 00:37:58.900
 captives

00:37:58.900 --> 00:38:00.460
 to be

00:38:00.460 --> 00:38:02.079
 set free

00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:03.300
 and then

00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:03.720
 become

00:38:03.720 --> 00:38:04.500
 captives

00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:06.800
 of Jesus

00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:07.340
 Christ

00:38:07.340 --> 00:38:09.260
 or captives

00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:09.700
 of God

00:38:09.700 --> 00:38:10.220
 in Moses'

00:38:10.220 --> 00:38:10.820
 case.

00:38:13.940 --> 00:38:15.099
 There is,

00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:16.380
 you may have

00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:17.019
 heard this,

00:38:17.260 --> 00:38:17.820
 but there's

00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:18.420
 a reference,

00:38:18.420 --> 00:38:20.200
 people refer

00:38:20.200 --> 00:38:21.440
 here to

00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:22.039
 the idea

00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:22.440
 that when

00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:23.280
 Jesus died

00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:23.619
 he went

00:38:23.619 --> 00:38:24.099
 down to

00:38:24.099 --> 00:38:24.639
 hell on

00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:24.980
 Easter

00:38:24.980 --> 00:38:25.559
 Saturday

00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:27.019
 and preached

00:38:27.019 --> 00:38:27.539
 in hell

00:38:27.539 --> 00:38:28.200
 for 24

00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:29.659
 hours and

00:38:29.659 --> 00:38:32.360
 then was

00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:33.539
 raised from

00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:34.000
 the dead

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:35.039
 and the rest

00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:35.780
 is, you

00:38:35.780 --> 00:38:36.000
 know, you

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:36.300
 know the

00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:36.780
 ending to

00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:37.420
 the story.

00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:39.360
 The only

00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:40.380
 New Testament

00:38:40.380 --> 00:38:41.260
 reference I

00:38:41.260 --> 00:38:42.280
 can find to

00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:43.220
 any idea

00:38:43.220 --> 00:38:43.920
 that Jesus

00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.180
 preached to

00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:45.599
 the dead

00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.059
 is in

00:38:46.059 --> 00:38:46.739
 1 Peter

00:38:46.739 --> 00:38:47.659
 chapter 3

00:38:47.659 --> 00:38:48.859
 and verse

00:38:48.859 --> 00:38:49.519
 19.

00:38:52.179 --> 00:38:53.179
 Some people

00:38:53.179 --> 00:38:54.099
 say that the

00:38:54.099 --> 00:38:54.879
 ascending and

00:38:54.879 --> 00:38:56.039
 descending thing

00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:57.119
 refers to the

00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:57.699
 Holy Spirit.

00:38:57.859 --> 00:38:58.919
 Jesus ascends

00:38:58.919 --> 00:38:59.619
 into heaven

00:38:59.619 --> 00:39:00.940
 and the third

00:39:00.940 --> 00:39:01.659
 person of the

00:39:01.659 --> 00:39:02.379
 Holy Trinity,

00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:03.379
 the Holy Spirit,

00:39:03.879 --> 00:39:04.699
 descends to

00:39:04.699 --> 00:39:05.639
 earth and

00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:06.460
 brings gifts

00:39:06.460 --> 00:39:07.399
 in Acts

00:39:07.399 --> 00:39:08.039
 chapter 2.

00:39:08.379 --> 00:39:09.059
 In my own

00:39:09.059 --> 00:39:09.599
 mind that's

00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:11.219
 probably what

00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:11.659
 Paul was

00:39:11.659 --> 00:39:12.460
 talking about.

00:39:12.460 --> 00:39:14.659
 And then the

00:39:14.659 --> 00:39:15.460
 final thing

00:39:15.460 --> 00:39:15.940
 that people

00:39:15.940 --> 00:39:16.619
 say about

00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:17.539
 this gets

00:39:17.539 --> 00:39:18.740
 worse is

00:39:18.740 --> 00:39:19.559
 Paul here

00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:20.000
 having a

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:20.579
 tilt at

00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:21.400
 this heresy

00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:21.740
 called

00:39:21.740 --> 00:39:22.619
 Gnosticism

00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:24.440
 that believed

00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:25.320
 that because

00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:25.980
 God was

00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:27.300
 absolutely

00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:28.920
 perfect and

00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:29.539
 because human

00:39:29.539 --> 00:39:30.019
 beings are

00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:30.539
 absolutely

00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:31.139
 terrible,

00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:32.260
 there was

00:39:32.260 --> 00:39:33.119
 no way that

00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:33.760
 God could

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:34.539
 come down

00:39:34.539 --> 00:39:35.980
 as a man.

00:39:37.300 --> 00:39:38.320
 The idea,

00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:38.720
 the very

00:39:38.720 --> 00:39:40.079
 idea revolted

00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:40.320
 them.

00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:41.559
 And so

00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:43.179
 some people

00:39:43.179 --> 00:39:44.119
 feel that

00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:45.659
 Paul here

00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:46.480
 is just

00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:47.000
 having a

00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:48.099
 kind of

00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:49.619
 jab in

00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:50.299
 the direction

00:39:50.299 --> 00:39:51.119
 of Gnostics.

00:39:51.779 --> 00:39:52.420
 Purpose of

00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:53.279
 spiritual gifts

00:39:53.279 --> 00:39:54.019
 to glorify

00:39:54.019 --> 00:39:54.460
 God,

00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:55.079
 to edify

00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:55.679
 the church

00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:56.360
 by building

00:39:56.360 --> 00:39:56.699
 up the

00:39:56.699 --> 00:39:57.139
 body of

00:39:57.139 --> 00:39:57.519
 Christ,

00:39:57.639 --> 00:39:58.559
 verse 12b,

00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:00.239
 and thirdly

00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:00.900
 to save

00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:01.519
 the world.

00:40:02.539 --> 00:40:02.980
 To save

00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:03.340
 the world

00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:04.619
 by service

00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:05.440
 and by the

00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:05.840
 preaching

00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:06.179
 of the

00:40:06.179 --> 00:40:06.559
 gospel,

00:40:06.980 --> 00:40:07.380
 not

00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:08.920
 either or,

00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:10.159
 but both

00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:10.559
 and.

00:40:11.559 --> 00:40:14.059
 There are

00:40:14.059 --> 00:40:14.380
 some

00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:15.000
 problems

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:15.639
 I think

00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:16.139
 that go

00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:16.579
 with

00:40:16.579 --> 00:40:18.920
 the gifts

00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:19.679
 that Paul

00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:20.480
 talks about.

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:21.820
 One is

00:40:21.820 --> 00:40:23.179
 we can get

00:40:23.179 --> 00:40:23.940
 obsessed with

00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:24.779
 particular gifts.

00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:25.279
 I've met

00:40:25.279 --> 00:40:25.799
 several

00:40:25.799 --> 00:40:27.460
 people in

00:40:27.460 --> 00:40:28.099
 my life

00:40:28.099 --> 00:40:28.559
 who

00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:30.360
 have been

00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:31.239
 obsessed

00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:32.500
 by getting

00:40:32.500 --> 00:40:33.320
 a particular

00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:33.719
 gift.

00:40:33.860 --> 00:40:34.360
 It's become

00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:35.119
 a kind of,

00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:36.199
 gone beyond

00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:36.860
 a passion

00:40:36.860 --> 00:40:37.900
 to an

00:40:37.900 --> 00:40:38.400
 obsession.

00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:40.920
 some of

00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:41.900
 that has

00:40:41.900 --> 00:40:42.920
 been fostered

00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:43.380
 by a

00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:43.639
 church,

00:40:43.740 --> 00:40:44.220
 which generally

00:40:44.220 --> 00:40:44.740
 I have a lot

00:40:44.740 --> 00:40:45.180
 of respect

00:40:45.180 --> 00:40:45.440
 for,

00:40:45.500 --> 00:40:46.380
 the Pentecostal

00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:46.639
 church,

00:40:46.700 --> 00:40:47.059
 but their

00:40:47.059 --> 00:40:47.639
 idea is you

00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:48.039
 go to a

00:40:48.039 --> 00:40:48.720
 Pentecostal

00:40:48.720 --> 00:40:49.200
 meeting,

00:40:49.780 --> 00:40:50.260
 at the end

00:40:50.260 --> 00:40:50.480
 of the

00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:50.940
 meeting,

00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:52.980
 it's like

00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:53.480
 an auction

00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:54.139
 that the

00:40:54.139 --> 00:40:54.480
 gifts of

00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:54.760
 the spirit,

00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:55.920
 you decide

00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:56.500
 what gift

00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:56.940
 you'd like

00:40:56.940 --> 00:40:57.200
 and you

00:40:57.200 --> 00:40:57.720
 come forward

00:40:57.720 --> 00:40:57.940
 and the

00:40:57.940 --> 00:40:58.420
 pastor will

00:40:58.420 --> 00:40:58.940
 lay hands

00:40:58.940 --> 00:40:59.360
 on you

00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:00.420
 and that's

00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:00.579
 it,

00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:01.019
 you've got

00:41:01.019 --> 00:41:01.200
 it.

00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:02.759
 I don't

00:41:02.759 --> 00:41:03.399
 think that's

00:41:03.399 --> 00:41:03.980
 quite right

00:41:03.980 --> 00:41:04.759
 because I

00:41:04.759 --> 00:41:05.119
 don't think

00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:05.460
 we're all

00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:05.739
 meant to

00:41:05.739 --> 00:41:06.019
 have the

00:41:06.019 --> 00:41:06.279
 same

00:41:06.279 --> 00:41:06.699
 gifts.

00:41:08.899 --> 00:41:09.299
 And

00:41:09.299 --> 00:41:10.579
 again,

00:41:10.739 --> 00:41:11.119
 I think

00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:11.960
 this is

00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:12.659
 really wrong,

00:41:12.739 --> 00:41:13.359
 the idea

00:41:13.359 --> 00:41:14.819
 that I'm

00:41:14.819 --> 00:41:15.679
 only truly

00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:16.339
 a Christian

00:41:16.339 --> 00:41:17.279
 if I can

00:41:17.279 --> 00:41:17.819
 speak in

00:41:17.819 --> 00:41:18.159
 tongues.

00:41:19.219 --> 00:41:19.939
 I think

00:41:19.939 --> 00:41:20.819
 that's not

00:41:20.819 --> 00:41:21.939
 right and

00:41:21.939 --> 00:41:22.980
 my argument

00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:23.460
 for that

00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:24.039
 would be

00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:25.539
 that these

00:41:25.539 --> 00:41:26.119
 are gifts,

00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:26.559
 we're not

00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:27.219
 all meant

00:41:27.219 --> 00:41:27.679
 to have

00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:28.259
 all the

00:41:28.259 --> 00:41:28.579
 gifts,

00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:30.739
 we're all

00:41:30.739 --> 00:41:31.079
 meant to

00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:31.599
 have some

00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:32.379
 gifts but

00:41:32.379 --> 00:41:33.219
 not all

00:41:33.219 --> 00:41:33.699
 the gifts.

00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:34.879
 And I

00:41:34.879 --> 00:41:35.139
 think there's

00:41:35.139 --> 00:41:35.779
 a confusion

00:41:35.779 --> 00:41:36.179
 there with

00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:36.619
 the fruit

00:41:36.619 --> 00:41:36.939
 of the

00:41:36.939 --> 00:41:37.219
 spirit,

00:41:37.359 --> 00:41:37.519
 love,

00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:37.739
 joy,

00:41:37.879 --> 00:41:38.679
 patience,

00:41:39.500 --> 00:41:40.419
 kindliness,

00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:41.019
 all that

00:41:41.019 --> 00:41:41.359
 stuff.

00:41:42.379 --> 00:41:43.000
 Those are

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:43.259
 the kind

00:41:43.259 --> 00:41:43.699
 of values

00:41:43.699 --> 00:41:44.219
 that all

00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:44.519
 of us

00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:45.099
 should have.

00:41:46.899 --> 00:41:47.699
 How might

00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:48.519
 I discover

00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:49.299
 my gifts?

00:41:50.919 --> 00:41:51.299
 Well,

00:41:51.439 --> 00:41:52.059
 my advice

00:41:52.059 --> 00:41:52.659
 would be

00:41:52.659 --> 00:41:53.899
 talk to

00:41:53.899 --> 00:41:54.539
 somebody who

00:41:54.539 --> 00:41:54.939
 loves you

00:41:54.939 --> 00:41:55.419
 enough to

00:41:55.419 --> 00:41:55.759
 tell you

00:41:55.759 --> 00:41:56.259
 the truth.

00:41:58.199 --> 00:41:59.059
 And there's

00:41:59.059 --> 00:41:59.719
 a reason

00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:00.259
 for that.

00:42:00.739 --> 00:42:01.699
 And the

00:42:01.699 --> 00:42:02.239
 reason for

00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:02.859
 that is

00:42:02.859 --> 00:42:04.039
 people can

00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:05.239
 be deluded.

00:42:07.179 --> 00:42:08.119
 Sometimes we

00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:08.579
 think we're

00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:08.919
 good at

00:42:08.919 --> 00:42:09.519
 stuff we're

00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:10.379
 really not

00:42:10.379 --> 00:42:11.000
 good at.

00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:15.479
 And so

00:42:15.479 --> 00:42:16.839
 I think we

00:42:16.839 --> 00:42:17.319
 need to be

00:42:17.319 --> 00:42:17.919
 careful with

00:42:17.919 --> 00:42:18.239
 that.

00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:19.859
 And the

00:42:19.859 --> 00:42:20.439
 second thing

00:42:20.439 --> 00:42:23.319
 is envying

00:42:23.319 --> 00:42:24.279
 other people's

00:42:24.279 --> 00:42:25.479
 gifts is

00:42:25.479 --> 00:42:27.639
 not an

00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:28.259
 attractive

00:42:28.259 --> 00:42:29.879
 characteristic

00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:30.579
 in local

00:42:30.579 --> 00:42:31.220
 churches.

00:42:34.059 --> 00:42:34.579
 Ignorance.

00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:35.640
 Paul says,

00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.420
 I wrote

00:42:37.420 --> 00:42:37.860
 to you

00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:38.360
 because I

00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:38.780
 don't want

00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:39.079
 you to

00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:39.920
 remain in

00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:40.579
 ignorance

00:42:40.579 --> 00:42:41.300
 about

00:42:41.300 --> 00:42:41.960
 spiritual

00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:42.280
 gifts.

00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:42.500
 Well,

00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:42.780
 that

00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:43.260
 ignorance,

00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:43.840
 I'm afraid,

00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:44.539
 goes on

00:42:44.539 --> 00:42:45.500
 in the

00:42:45.500 --> 00:42:45.900
 churches

00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:46.559
 today.

00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:48.940
 And I

00:42:48.940 --> 00:42:49.300
 just want

00:42:49.300 --> 00:42:49.680
 to refer

00:42:49.680 --> 00:42:50.500
 to something

00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:51.840
 that I

00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:52.579
 meet hordes

00:42:52.579 --> 00:42:53.380
 Christians.

00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:54.679
 Some of

00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:55.480
 them really

00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:57.880
 long-standing

00:42:57.880 --> 00:42:58.880
 and faithful

00:42:58.880 --> 00:42:59.579
 Christians,

00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:01.159
 who will

00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:02.039
 say to me

00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:02.639
 stuff like,

00:43:02.779 --> 00:43:03.920
 well, I

00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:04.360
 don't really

00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:05.019
 get anything

00:43:05.019 --> 00:43:05.500
 out of

00:43:05.500 --> 00:43:06.279
 church today,

00:43:06.420 --> 00:43:07.360
 but I

00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:08.019
 still go

00:43:08.019 --> 00:43:10.119
 because I'd

00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:10.679
 rather go

00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:11.480
 than feel bad

00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:12.000
 about not

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:12.340
 going.

00:43:12.340 --> 00:43:15.920
 and I

00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:16.660
 think probably

00:43:16.660 --> 00:43:17.700
 everybody in

00:43:17.700 --> 00:43:18.260
 the house

00:43:18.260 --> 00:43:19.360
 tonight understands

00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:20.079
 a little bit

00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:22.539
 of why

00:43:22.539 --> 00:43:23.940
 that is.

00:43:25.120 --> 00:43:25.760
 But just

00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:27.320
 imagine for

00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:27.880
 a moment

00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:29.539
 a church

00:43:29.539 --> 00:43:30.140
 where the

00:43:30.140 --> 00:43:30.980
 ministries that

00:43:30.980 --> 00:43:31.440
 the church

00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:32.059
 was called

00:43:32.059 --> 00:43:34.180
 to were

00:43:34.180 --> 00:43:34.780
 looked after

00:43:34.780 --> 00:43:35.760
 by people

00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:36.320
 who were

00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:37.240
 gifted in

00:43:37.240 --> 00:43:38.000
 that area.

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.599
 I think

00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:41.659
 I got to

00:43:41.659 --> 00:43:42.239
 the somewhat

00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:43.539
 radical view

00:43:43.539 --> 00:43:46.320
 that I

00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:46.780
 would rather

00:43:46.780 --> 00:43:47.619
 not do a

00:43:47.619 --> 00:43:48.920
 ministry in

00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:49.860
 church rather

00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:50.420
 than do it

00:43:50.420 --> 00:43:50.960
 with people

00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:51.659
 who were not

00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:52.539
 gifted to do

00:43:52.539 --> 00:43:52.780
 it.

00:43:54.059 --> 00:43:54.619
 And the

00:43:54.619 --> 00:43:55.099
 trouble with

00:43:55.099 --> 00:43:55.679
 that is

00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:59.300
 it means

00:43:59.300 --> 00:43:59.579
 there's got

00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:00.059
 to be some

00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:00.719
 tough and

00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:01.300
 grown-up

00:44:01.300 --> 00:44:02.159
 conversations.

00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:07.780
 You know,

00:44:07.780 --> 00:44:08.060
 I was

00:44:08.060 --> 00:44:09.420
 fairly young

00:44:09.420 --> 00:44:09.780
 when I

00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:10.740
 became a

00:44:10.740 --> 00:44:11.420
 vicar for

00:44:11.420 --> 00:44:11.900
 the first

00:44:11.900 --> 00:44:12.660
 time and

00:44:12.660 --> 00:44:13.860
 I inherited

00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:15.780
 five licensed

00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:17.120
 lay ministers

00:44:17.120 --> 00:44:18.540
 all licensed

00:44:18.540 --> 00:44:19.200
 to preach.

00:44:20.100 --> 00:44:20.740
 I had to

00:44:20.740 --> 00:44:21.080
 tell them

00:44:21.080 --> 00:44:22.280
 all within

00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:23.220
 six months

00:44:23.220 --> 00:44:25.140
 you're not

00:44:25.140 --> 00:44:25.340
 going to

00:44:25.340 --> 00:44:25.840
 preach here

00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.240
 anymore.

00:44:28.220 --> 00:44:28.760
 None of

00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:29.240
 them left.

00:44:31.340 --> 00:44:32.200
 They all

00:44:32.200 --> 00:44:32.960
 seemed to

00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:33.740
 readily accept

00:44:33.740 --> 00:44:34.340
 that preaching

00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:34.940
 wasn't their

00:44:34.940 --> 00:44:35.460
 gift.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:36.519
 It's a slight

00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:37.300
 understatement

00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:39.100
 and there

00:44:39.100 --> 00:44:39.380
 was just

00:44:39.380 --> 00:44:40.140
 one of

00:44:40.140 --> 00:44:40.920
 those people

00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:41.760
 who I

00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:42.260
 would put

00:44:42.260 --> 00:44:42.920
 on for

00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:43.420
 the eight

00:44:43.420 --> 00:44:43.700
 o'clock

00:44:43.700 --> 00:44:44.140
 communion

00:44:44.140 --> 00:44:44.700
 service who

00:44:44.700 --> 00:44:45.000
 I thought

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:45.280
 did a

00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:45.940
 very good

00:44:45.940 --> 00:44:46.460
 homily

00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:47.620
 particularly

00:44:47.620 --> 00:44:48.360
 if you're

00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:49.060
 ex-military

00:44:49.060 --> 00:44:49.560
 because nearly

00:44:49.560 --> 00:44:49.920
 all his

00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:50.660
 stories came

00:44:50.660 --> 00:44:50.980
 from his

00:44:50.980 --> 00:44:51.400
 time in

00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:51.840
 the army.

00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:53.000
 They had

00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:53.280
 no good

00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:53.880
 stories as

00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:54.140
 a matter

00:44:54.140 --> 00:44:54.580
 of fact.

00:44:56.019 --> 00:44:56.420
 And then

00:44:56.420 --> 00:44:57.220
 on the

00:44:57.220 --> 00:44:57.760
 maturity

00:44:57.760 --> 00:44:58.220
 front,

00:44:58.539 --> 00:44:59.200
 just very

00:44:59.200 --> 00:45:00.380
 briefly but

00:45:00.380 --> 00:45:00.880
 not

00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:02.580
 unimportantly,

00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:04.519
 Paul

00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:05.380
 imagines

00:45:05.380 --> 00:45:05.980
 that all

00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:06.539
 these gifts,

00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:07.139
 all these

00:45:07.139 --> 00:45:07.799
 orders of

00:45:07.799 --> 00:45:08.420
 ministry are

00:45:08.420 --> 00:45:08.880
 given to

00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:09.440
 build us

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:09.739
 up,

00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:10.639
 that we

00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:11.779
 might attain

00:45:11.779 --> 00:45:12.500
 the kind

00:45:12.500 --> 00:45:13.219
 of unity

00:45:13.219 --> 00:45:15.739
 in Jesus

00:45:15.739 --> 00:45:17.599
 that he

00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:18.380
 envisages.

00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:21.579
 Paul in

00:45:21.579 --> 00:45:22.739
 these 16

00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:23.539
 verses gives

00:45:23.539 --> 00:45:24.059
 us a vision

00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:24.579
 of how the

00:45:24.579 --> 00:45:25.159
 church is

00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:25.880
 supposed to

00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:26.219
 work.

00:45:26.219 --> 00:45:28.239
 And you

00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:28.839
 know this,

00:45:29.759 --> 00:45:30.859
 growing up

00:45:30.859 --> 00:45:33.099
 doesn't come

00:45:33.099 --> 00:45:33.839
 that easily

00:45:33.839 --> 00:45:34.399
 when it

00:45:34.399 --> 00:45:35.279
 comes to

00:45:35.279 --> 00:45:35.679
 our

00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:36.339
 relationship

00:45:36.339 --> 00:45:37.019
 with God

00:45:37.019 --> 00:45:37.739
 through Jesus

00:45:37.739 --> 00:45:38.299
 Christ.

00:45:38.819 --> 00:45:39.679
 The process

00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:40.919
 of sanctification

00:45:40.919 --> 00:45:42.319
 can be

00:45:42.319 --> 00:45:43.439
 very painful.

00:45:45.339 --> 00:45:45.659
 I do

00:45:45.659 --> 00:45:46.139
 remember

00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:46.719
 that when

00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:48.259
 some of

00:45:48.259 --> 00:45:48.939
 our daughters

00:45:48.939 --> 00:45:49.779
 were young,

00:45:50.359 --> 00:45:50.899
 they'd go

00:45:50.899 --> 00:45:51.819
 to bed and

00:45:51.819 --> 00:45:52.359
 then they'd

00:45:52.359 --> 00:45:53.339
 appear about

00:45:53.339 --> 00:45:53.980
 an hour later

00:45:53.980 --> 00:45:54.259
 and say,

00:45:54.319 --> 00:45:54.699
 Mummy, I

00:45:54.699 --> 00:45:55.339
 can't get

00:45:55.339 --> 00:45:56.039
 to sleep.

00:45:56.219 --> 00:45:58.539
 And Mummy

00:45:58.539 --> 00:45:59.039
 would say,

00:45:59.159 --> 00:45:59.359
 why?

00:45:59.439 --> 00:45:59.779
 And they'd

00:45:59.779 --> 00:46:00.239
 say, my

00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:00.839
 legs are

00:46:00.839 --> 00:46:01.239
 aching.

00:46:02.419 --> 00:46:03.379
 And I

00:46:03.379 --> 00:46:03.839
 don't know

00:46:03.839 --> 00:46:04.159
 whether we

00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:05.119
 ever consulted

00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:05.659
 a doctor,

00:46:05.779 --> 00:46:06.059
 but the

00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:07.079
 general theory

00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:07.819
 on that was

00:46:07.819 --> 00:46:08.179
 that these

00:46:08.179 --> 00:46:08.639
 are growing

00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:09.119
 pains.

00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:11.480
 Have you

00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:11.839
 heard that

00:46:11.839 --> 00:46:12.219
 phrase?

00:46:12.819 --> 00:46:13.259
 Growing

00:46:13.259 --> 00:46:13.719
 pains.

00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:15.299
 Well, when

00:46:15.299 --> 00:46:16.519
 we grow in

00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:16.939
 the faith,

00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:17.459
 there's some

00:46:17.459 --> 00:46:17.859
 pain.

00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:19.679
 It's not

00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:20.199
 all easy

00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:20.899
 going, partly

00:46:20.899 --> 00:46:21.500
 because to

00:46:21.500 --> 00:46:22.039
 grow in

00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:23.299
 faith, we're

00:46:23.299 --> 00:46:23.639
 going to have

00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:24.379
 to stop doing

00:46:24.379 --> 00:46:24.939
 some things

00:46:24.939 --> 00:46:26.099
 that we did

00:46:26.099 --> 00:46:26.659
 and start

00:46:26.659 --> 00:46:27.179
 doing some

00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:27.659
 things that

00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:28.139
 we weren't

00:46:28.139 --> 00:46:28.519
 doing.

00:46:30.579 --> 00:46:31.079
 Maturity

00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:31.759
 doesn't come

00:46:31.759 --> 00:46:32.299
 easily.

00:46:33.819 --> 00:46:34.779
 Thirdly, I

00:46:34.779 --> 00:46:35.099
 think the

00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:35.779
 maturity of

00:46:35.779 --> 00:46:36.219
 the church,

00:46:36.279 --> 00:46:36.739
 and this was

00:46:36.739 --> 00:46:37.559
 critical in

00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:38.019
 the early

00:46:38.019 --> 00:46:38.579
 church and

00:46:38.579 --> 00:46:39.079
 doesn't seem

00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:39.639
 to even be

00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:40.059
 an issue

00:46:40.059 --> 00:46:41.619
 today, I

00:46:41.619 --> 00:46:41.960
 think there

00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:42.659
 needs to be a

00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:43.339
 willingness to

00:46:43.339 --> 00:46:44.480
 call out wrong

00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:45.519
 teaching in our

00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:46.039
 churches.

00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:49.819
 That can cause

00:46:49.819 --> 00:46:50.659
 mayhem,

00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:51.460
 believe me.

00:46:51.460 --> 00:46:53.800
 And finally,

00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:54.500
 in verses

00:46:54.500 --> 00:46:55.300
 15 and

00:46:55.300 --> 00:46:56.079
 16, you

00:46:56.079 --> 00:46:56.400
 get a

00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:57.079
 great answer

00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:57.460
 to the

00:46:57.460 --> 00:46:57.960
 question,

00:46:58.599 --> 00:46:58.800
 whose

00:46:58.800 --> 00:46:59.599
 church is

00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:00.420
 it anyway?

00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:02.960
 These last

00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:04.900
 verses refer

00:47:04.900 --> 00:47:05.900
 in a, I

00:47:05.900 --> 00:47:06.059
 think,

00:47:06.220 --> 00:47:07.340
 spectacular and

00:47:07.340 --> 00:47:08.340
 wonderful way.

00:47:10.740 --> 00:47:11.820
 So the

00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:12.500
 whole point

00:47:12.500 --> 00:47:13.000
 of growing

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:13.480
 up into

00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:14.240
 maturity is

00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:14.599
 that one

00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:14.940
 of the

00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:15.659
 outcomes of

00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:15.960
 that is

00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:16.139
 we will

00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:16.760
 no longer

00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:18.400
 be infants

00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:19.800
 being tossed

00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:20.860
 back and

00:47:20.860 --> 00:47:21.400
 forth by

00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:22.039
 waves and

00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:22.599
 blown here

00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:22.960
 and there

00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:23.619
 by every

00:47:23.619 --> 00:47:24.079
 wind of

00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:25.380
 teaching and

00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:25.820
 by the

00:47:25.820 --> 00:47:26.500
 cunning and

00:47:26.500 --> 00:47:27.420
 craftiness of

00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:27.700
 men.

00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:29.500
 See, Paul's

00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:30.300
 already talked

00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:31.139
 about the

00:47:31.139 --> 00:47:32.180
 destructive power

00:47:32.180 --> 00:47:32.740
 of the rulers

00:47:32.740 --> 00:47:33.539
 and authorities

00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:34.260
 in the heavenly

00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:35.000
 places, the

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:35.900
 malign influences.

00:47:36.260 --> 00:47:36.820
 He's talking

00:47:36.820 --> 00:47:37.460
 about human

00:47:37.460 --> 00:47:38.180
 beings here.

00:47:39.780 --> 00:47:40.280
 Human

00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:40.960
 beings who

00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:41.860
 will distort

00:47:41.860 --> 00:47:42.800
 the truth.

00:47:44.260 --> 00:47:44.619
 He says,

00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:45.420
 speaking the

00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:45.920
 truth in

00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:46.240
 love,

00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:49.159
 you might

00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:49.339
 want to

00:47:49.339 --> 00:47:49.699
 ask a

00:47:49.699 --> 00:47:50.059
 question

00:47:50.059 --> 00:47:50.659
 about that.

00:47:50.939 --> 00:47:51.479
 Really

00:47:51.479 --> 00:47:52.199
 important but

00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:52.959
 really difficult.

00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:54.119
 We will

00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:54.639
 in all

00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:55.319
 things grow

00:47:55.319 --> 00:47:55.799
 up into

00:47:55.799 --> 00:47:56.739
 him who

00:47:56.739 --> 00:47:57.219
 is the

00:47:57.219 --> 00:47:57.719
 head, that

00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:58.399
 is Christ.

00:47:58.979 --> 00:47:59.439
 From him

00:47:59.439 --> 00:47:59.879
 the whole

00:47:59.879 --> 00:48:00.739
 body joined

00:48:00.739 --> 00:48:01.159
 and held

00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:01.879
 together by

00:48:01.879 --> 00:48:02.959
 every supporting

00:48:02.959 --> 00:48:03.819
 ligament grows

00:48:03.819 --> 00:48:04.519
 and builds

00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:05.439
 itself up in

00:48:05.439 --> 00:48:08.139
 love as

00:48:08.139 --> 00:48:09.219
 each part

00:48:09.219 --> 00:48:10.679
 does its

00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:11.219
 work.

00:48:11.219 --> 00:48:16.319
 can you

00:48:16.319 --> 00:48:18.939
 imagine a

00:48:18.939 --> 00:48:19.699
 church that

00:48:19.699 --> 00:48:20.139
 was so

00:48:20.139 --> 00:48:21.059
 safe in

00:48:21.059 --> 00:48:21.619
 the company

00:48:21.619 --> 00:48:21.959
 of one

00:48:21.959 --> 00:48:22.519
 another that

00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:22.919
 we could

00:48:22.919 --> 00:48:23.599
 speak the

00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:24.039
 truth to

00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:24.559
 one another

00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:25.139
 in love?

00:48:26.179 --> 00:48:26.719
 I've heard

00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:27.179
 a load of

00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:28.599
 Christians speak

00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:29.299
 the truth but

00:48:29.299 --> 00:48:29.719
 not very

00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:30.099
 kindly.

00:48:31.319 --> 00:48:31.859
 And I've

00:48:31.859 --> 00:48:32.399
 had a lot of

00:48:32.399 --> 00:48:33.079
 loving Christians

00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:33.819
 who know that

00:48:33.819 --> 00:48:34.679
 some truth needs

00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:35.399
 to be added to

00:48:35.399 --> 00:48:36.500
 the conversation

00:48:36.500 --> 00:48:37.419
 but for

00:48:37.419 --> 00:48:38.119
 whatever reason

00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:39.379
 don't add

00:48:39.379 --> 00:48:39.579
 it.

00:48:39.579 --> 00:48:42.019
 no speaking

00:48:42.019 --> 00:48:42.679
 the truth in

00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:43.500
 love is

00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:46.319
 I think

00:48:46.319 --> 00:48:47.079
 really important

00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:47.599
 and the thing

00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:48.059
 is you don't

00:48:48.059 --> 00:48:48.639
 have to like

00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:48.880
 it.

00:48:50.659 --> 00:48:50.860
 You know

00:48:50.860 --> 00:48:54.319
 I think

00:48:54.319 --> 00:48:55.179
 Anthony and

00:48:55.179 --> 00:48:55.539
 I have been

00:48:55.539 --> 00:48:56.779
 married long

00:48:56.779 --> 00:48:57.299
 enough for

00:48:57.299 --> 00:48:58.039
 her to feel

00:48:58.039 --> 00:48:59.279
 she can speak

00:48:59.279 --> 00:49:00.019
 the truth in

00:49:00.019 --> 00:49:00.679
 love, well

00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:01.699
 mostly to me.

00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:06.099
 And I

00:49:06.099 --> 00:49:06.639
 would love to

00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:07.279
 say to you

00:49:07.279 --> 00:49:07.719
 that my

00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:08.559
 testimony is

00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:09.019
 when she

00:49:09.019 --> 00:49:09.559
 speaks the

00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:10.059
 truth to

00:49:10.059 --> 00:49:10.340
 me love

00:49:10.340 --> 00:49:10.840
 I fall

00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:11.239
 to my

00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:11.659
 knees

00:49:11.659 --> 00:49:13.360
 and thank

00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:14.579
 her for

00:49:14.579 --> 00:49:15.360
 her wonderful

00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:16.480
 insight and

00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:17.279
 input into

00:49:17.279 --> 00:49:17.820
 my, no I

00:49:17.820 --> 00:49:18.519
 resist it

00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:19.980
 initially.

00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:22.579
 Now go away

00:49:22.579 --> 00:49:22.960
 and think

00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:23.799
 about it and

00:49:23.799 --> 00:49:24.639
 darn it she's

00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:24.980
 right.

00:49:27.619 --> 00:49:29.139
 So look

00:49:29.139 --> 00:49:30.159
 I'm going to

00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:30.880
 draw a line

00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:31.599
 under it there

00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:32.759
 there's so

00:49:32.759 --> 00:49:33.579
 much more I

00:49:33.579 --> 00:49:34.099
 could have said

00:49:34.099 --> 00:49:35.000
 on these 16

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:36.179
 verses to try

00:49:36.179 --> 00:49:36.480
 hand.

00:49:37.379 --> 00:49:37.899
 Help you

00:49:37.899 --> 00:49:38.480
 have a

00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:39.099
 renewed

00:49:39.099 --> 00:49:39.819
 vision of

00:49:39.819 --> 00:49:40.159
 what the

00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:40.519
 church

00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:41.559
 could be

00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:42.000
 like.

00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:43.579
 And the

00:49:43.579 --> 00:49:43.899
 only way

00:49:43.899 --> 00:49:44.299
 that will

00:49:44.299 --> 00:49:44.960
 happen is

00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:45.659
 if you get

00:49:45.659 --> 00:49:46.299
 that vision

00:49:46.299 --> 00:49:47.799
 and work

00:49:47.799 --> 00:49:48.460
 towards it

00:49:48.460 --> 00:49:49.159
 in your own

00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:49.579
 walk with

00:49:49.579 --> 00:49:49.919
 Jesus.

00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:51.039
 what do

00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:53.659
 what do

00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


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00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


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00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


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00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


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00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659


00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:53.659