I was interviewed by The Citizen this week.
A 50-minute long interview from a woman by the name of Jennifer.
I think she normally publishes under the name Jennifer Jackson,
but I think that byline is going to be changed soon to Jennifer Green
because she's been recently married.
And I guess there was a bit of telephone tag,
this woman wanting to talk to me to set up an interview,
so I knew she wanted to talk to me and interview me.
My wife and I talked about it.
I was very uneasy about being interviewed by a reporter of The Citizen.
The press aren't often friends of people like myself
and many of you who hold our views on some issues of the day.
But after praying about it and discussing it with my wife,
I decided I'd do the interview.
So on Thursday morning, she said she'd like to talk to me for 20 to 30 minutes,
and she interviewed me for 50 minutes.
And she talked to me about our network membership,
about us withholding apportionment,
about a lesbian priest,
a woman married to another woman who's a priest in the Diocese of Ottawa,
and my role in an open letter about that,
about essentials.
We covered the whole gamut.
The article didn't come out on Saturday, yesterday.
That means it's, I think, coming out this coming Saturday or Sunday.
You can pray for her as she writes.
I ended up thinking that she was quite fair-minded,
and so just pray that as she thinks this week
about how she's going to write that article,
that she will be fair-minded about how she portrays us.
One of the reasons, as you know, I'd be nervous about interviews,
because once you're interviewed,
I mean, you're just complete,
we're completely helpless.
I'm helpless.
You know, she can make me look really bad
or make me look good or somewhere in between.
But, you know, I can't replay for you the entire interview,
not that I could remember it,
but early on in the interview, I said to her,
I said, you know, if there was a verse
which really described my heart,
where my heart is,
and where I'd like my heart to grow more and more,
and I think it describes the heart of this congregation,
it is these words of Jesus,
Come unto me, all who labor and are heavy laden,
and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me,
for I am gentle and lowly of heart,
and you will find rest for your souls,
for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
And I said, that's my heart,
and that's the heart of this congregation.
And before I could start to explain it,
she said to me, she said,
that's beautiful.
Where is it from?
And so I told you,
I told her Matthew 11, 28 to 30,
it's the words of Jesus,
and I said, you know,
we're a broken people.
We at St. Albans don't view ourselves as being the pure,
the holy, the mighty, the strong,
the good, the blessed,
or any of these types of things.
We are ones who are born broken,
and we need a savior,
and we need to come to Jesus,
and we need to take his yoke upon us.
That's what we need.
That's what everybody needs.
And I said to her,
I said, you know,
it's far more important to me
that people come to Jesus,
and start to learn to take his yoke upon them
than they deal even with their sexuality.
It's always more important to come first to Jesus.
That's my heart.
And then as we were talking as well later on,
I said, you know,
at the heart of this dispute
and this crisis in the church,
it can be talked about as a crisis of authority,
but really it's ultimately about
whether the Bible is the Bible,
whether the Bible has authority in our lives.
You see, it's really about
two completely and utterly different views
as to what the Christian faith is.
Is the Christian faith the story
and the invitation of how God
has broken from outside the created order
and broken into our created order,
reaching down to us human beings
to bring salvation to us,
and we, in a sense,
are to open our arms and to receive it?
Or is the Christian faith
about human beings' attempts
to image God,
frame God,
reach out to God,
create God?
Is it all about ultimately
us human beings reaching up to God,
or is it all about God
reaching down to us?
And I said,
they're completely and utterly different faiths,
and I believe,
and the people at St. Albans believe,
that Christianity is about God
reaching down to us
and us receiving that
which only God can do.
This is not just some clever idea of mine.
This is, in fact,
what Jesus teaches us
in the Gospel today.
And so if you turn in your Bibles
to page 919,
page 919,
Luke,
sorry, Luke,
if you turn to Luke,
it'll be wrong.
John chapter 1,
verses 43 to 51.
I know some people bring their own Bibles,
don't use the Pew Bibles,
and that's good.
John 1,
43 to 51.
And the story goes,
you know,
continues like this.
The following day,
Jesus wanted to go to Galilee,
and he found Philip
and said to him,
follow me.
Now Philip was from Bethsaida,
the city of Andrew and Peter.
Philip found Nathanael
and said to him,
we have found him
of whom Moses in the law
and also the prophets wrote,
Jesus of Nazareth,
the son of Joseph.
I just want to pause here.
There's a couple of interesting things here,
just about verse 45.
Years and years ago,
when I was in university,
decades and decades ago
when I was in university,
I tried to read a Russian novel
by myself for the first time.
I tried to read Dostoevsky's
Crime and Punishment.
And some of you may have heard this before.
I was about a third
to a halfway through the book.
I was really struggling with this book.
I was reading it
because it's supposed to be
great literature.
And I wanted to try to read
great literature
and learn and become wise
and learn it
and all of that stuff.
And I'm slogging through this
and slogging through this
and slogging through this.
And I can't remember
if it was somebody who told me
or if I finally figured it out
for myself.
But Russians
have all sorts of different names.
And so I had been thinking
there were about
12 characters in this book
when there were only four.
Because they'd keep naming
the same person
and sometimes it would be
their nickname
and sometimes it would be
the full name
and sometimes it would be
this other name.
And I kept thinking
there were all these
different characters
trying to wonder
how on earth these guys
seem to be coming in and out.
And then I finally figured that out.
And so I went back to the book
and read the book
from the beginning,
now very carefully following
the names of the characters
and keeping the same guy
straight all the way through.
Jewish people
had lots of different names,
especially Galileans
at the time of Jesus.
They'd have sort of like
more Greek sounding names
and Jewish names
and a variety of names.
So Nathaniel is Bartholomew
in case you're wondering.
In case you're looking
at some of the other
lists of the disciples
and you say,
I don't see Nathaniel
there anywhere.
Nathaniel is probably Bartholomew.
And so Philip,
who's from Bethsaida,
he comes and finds Nathaniel.
And one of the things
that Philip does here
is really cool.
It's a real encouragement for us.
He says,
we have found him
of whom Moses and the law
and also the prophets wrote,
Jesus of Nazareth,
the son of Joseph.
Now the thing which is
so neat about this
is that Philip gets
half of it wrong.
Okay, this is a real
encouragement to you and me.
Like when it comes time
to witness about Jesus,
don't ever say to yourself,
I have to wait
until I've figured out
everything perfectly
before I can witness
about Jesus.
Philip gets half of it wrong.
Jesus is not from Nazareth.
He was from Bethlehem
and he's not the son of Joseph.
He was, I mean,
in a sense,
the stepson of Joseph.
He got two of the things wrong,
but he was just full of enthusiasm
to tell Nathaniel,
his buddy Nathaniel,
about Jesus.
And so he does it.
And it's really neat
because, see,
God always honors
our hearty desire
to share Jesus.
God doesn't sort of
look down at heaven
and says,
oh, dang it,
there's George
attempting it again.
You know,
when's he going to
finally smarten up?
Like, when's he going to
start reading better books?
You know,
you know,
God takes
our faltering,
stumbling attempts
to witness to Jesus
and he just throws a party
and the angels
are singing hallelujah
and God says,
you know,
I can handle
his foolishness.
You know,
I can work through this.
And so Philip
is filled with this.
He gives sort of
two of the things,
he says some of the things wrong
and Nathaniel says to him,
and this is the other thing,
you know,
verse 46,
and Nathaniel said to him,
can anything good
come out of Nazareth?
Philip said to him,
come and see.
Now,
there's sort of two
interesting things about this.
You know,
we're from Ottawa
and at least we live in Ottawa
and maybe we're not from Ottawa
but we live in Ottawa
and it's easy for urban people
to look down the nose
at rural people
and, you know,
but rural people
look down their noses
sometimes at other rural people
because, like,
from an Ottawa perspective,
rural Canada
is sort of anything
in Ontario
other than southern Ontario
and Ottawa.
Like,
the rest of it's sort of,
like,
rural or small town,
you know?
But,
you know,
with people there,
they can look down
their noses at things
just like we think
it's something special
to be from Ottawa
but Toronto knows
they're the centre
of the universe
and if you're from New York
they know that they're
really the centre
of the universe
and Paris knows
that they're really
the centre of the universe
and so you can always
find people
who look down their noses
at other people.
When I was in my rural parish
in Eganville,
I did the funeral
of this woman
and lived in Killaloo.
Now,
Killaloo
has a population
of 600 people
and people
were telling me
about this woman
and they said
that one of the things
that characterised
her life for many years
is that she looked
down her nose
at people
from Tremor.
Now,
Tremor,
there's nothing
in Tremor.
It's a bend
and a road
with an old school
and a church.
That's Tremor
and people
from Tremor,
often now
people who go
to that church
are from expensive
cottages
on Round Lake
but years and years
ago,
I guess,
this woman
thought that people,
she lived in a town
of 600 people
and she thought,
well,
the people
who live
and who go
to Tremor,
they're hillbillies
but I live
in the village
of Killaloo.
So,
here's Nathaniel
from Bethsaida
like a little hole
in the wall
saying,
can anything good
come from Nazareth?
You know,
like they have
the wrong accent,
they're not very
well educated
and,
you know,
the fact of the matter
is that often
in this world
we have to deal
with prejudice
and one of the prejudices
that Nathaniel had
was just literally
he was so big
on thinking
that being from
this little hole
in the wall
Bethsaida is important.
Nathaniel's,
I mean,
in Nazareth
there's a smaller
hole in the wall
so they could look
down their noses
on Nazarite
and people
from Nazareth
and that,
at first,
that sort of
just honest prejudice
comes out
and it's so neat
because Philip
doesn't,
in a sense,
deal with the prejudice
he said,
just come and see him.
Just come and see him.
And,
you know,
one of the things
that we can do
is,
because often
when we're trying
to share the gospel
or talk about
the Christian faith
is we can be,
people can be filled
with prejudice
about the Christian faith,
they can be filled
with prejudice
maybe about Christians
or even you
or the people
who would come
to this church
or some other church
and the thing is,
is in a sense
not to be deflected
from it,
to be conscious of it,
but just say,
yeah,
come and see.
Like,
why don't you come
and read the Bible
with me?
Like,
why don't you come
and meet some
of the people
who love Jesus?
Like,
just come and see.
Like,
a brilliant response
to it.
So the story continues.
Nathaniel said to him,
can anything good
come out of Nazareth?
Philip said to him,
come and see.
Now,
Jesus saw Nathaniel
coming toward him
and said of him,
behold,
an Israelite indeed
in whom is no guile.
It was a bit prejudiced,
but there's no hypocrisy
in him.
He's no guile.
And Nathaniel said to him,
how do you know me?
Jesus answered
and said to him,
before Philip called you
when you were under
the fig tree,
I saw you.
Nathaniel answered
and said to him,
Rabbi,
you are the son of God.
You are the king of Israel.
Now,
this sounds a little bit
incommensurate
of a response to us
from a very simple
observation of Jesus.
This is a simple miracle
that Jesus performs.
And John,
as we're going to see
in a moment,
not in a moment,
but next week,
John has organized
his gospel
around a series
of significant miracles
and John draws out
the significance
of the miracle
for who Jesus is
and our deepest human needs.
And here we see
John just sharing
a simple miracle
of Jesus
but making no comment
about it whatsoever.
And this is the miracle.
This is why,
like it wasn't as if,
you know,
Jesus is walking
down the aisle
and he turns to the left
and he sees one of you
sitting to his left
and then later on
he says,
well,
I noticed you
when you were sitting.
It's not like that at all.
Nathaniel was somewhere
where,
humanly speaking,
Jesus could not
possibly have seen him.
And so,
Jesus begins
by making an observation
about Nathaniel's character.
He meets Nathaniel
for the first time
and he says something
about the soul
and the mind
and the heart
and the will
of Nathaniel.
And it is probably
something that Nathaniel
has been really
maybe deeply praying about
and deeply working on
and as soon as he says it
about,
as soon as he says this
about Nathaniel,
Nathaniel says in a sense,
like,
how on earth do you know
that about me?
And Jesus says,
I saw you under the fig tree.
And maybe that was a time
when Nathaniel
was maybe deep in prayer
asking God
to have less guile
and hypocrisy
in his life
and more wholehearted
pursuit of the truth.
Maybe that was what
he was doing
in that private moment
under the fig tree.
But Jesus says something
that humanly speaking,
physically speaking,
there's no way
that Jesus could possibly
have seen Nathaniel.
And Nathaniel recognizes
that if Jesus is able
to do this miracle
of sight,
that it's in fact
connected somehow
or another
to the miracle
of Jesus piercing
beneath the facade
of Nathaniel
and seen into Nathaniel's heart.
And because of
the miracle of sight,
Nathaniel recognizes
that Jesus is one
who can see into heart
and he goes,
you are the true teacher.
You are the son of God.
You are the king of Israel.
You know,
the son of God,
one of the things
that we'll see
as we read the gospels
is that often people
speak of Jesus
more than they know.
And the word son of God
is one of those words
that it can have
a double meaning.
And in some context
it can just mean
like the Messiah
and in other contexts
it can mean
something ontological,
something about
the actual being.
and Nathaniel maybe
is just thinking of it
as a messianic thing.
He doesn't realize
that he says
more than he knows,
that he picks a word,
a phrase,
that speaks not only
of Jesus being the Messiah
but also of him
being ontologically
God's son.
He could not possibly
have made that leap
but it's just funny
how those things
happen,
this double meaning
of this single word.
and so
Jesus is able
to see
what cannot
humanly be seen
and that means
he can see
right into the heart
of Nathaniel.
He can see
into your heart
and mine.
He can see us
when nobody else
can see us.
In fact,
you know,
one of the things
which is so important
for us to recognize
as we come here
to worship
is that we are coming
into the presence
of the living God
and we are coming
into the presence
of Jesus
who is the Savior
and his eyes
have been upon you
all week.
His eyes are upon you
right now
and as he looks
upon you
and looks deep
within you
he only looks
with eyes of love.
He only looks
with eyes of love
and every time
we come to worship,
every time we come
to be in the presence
of Jesus
we can come
confident
that God
is not going
to shame us
but only desires
to bring us healing
by drawing us
closer to himself.
Ultimately,
he wants to bring
you salvation
and we can come
expecting
to meet with God
and have
God touch us
and pray
as you come here
that your heart
and that my heart
that our hearts
will be open
to the presence
and the touch
of the God
who loves us.
But then Jesus
continues.
I mean,
Nathaniel has been
blown away
by this simple miracle
that it's in a sense
a miracle
so insignificant
that in the gospel
John is not going
to even in a sense
spend any time
reflecting upon it
but in verse 50
Jesus answered
and said to him
because I said to you
I saw you under
the fig tree
do you believe?
You will see
greater things
than these.
And Jesus said to him
and here we see
this verily, verily.
It's the first time
it comes in
John's gospel.
As David talked
about a bit
last week
any time you see
in this version
I'm using
it's most assuredly
if you use
the King James
version of the Bible
it's verily, verily
it means
amen, amen
so be it, so be it.
It means that
something important
is coming up
so Jesus is trying
to get our attention
by speaking louder
in capital letters
or something
and we should listen up
because something
important is about
to be said
and this is what he says
verily, verily
most assuredly
I say to you
hereafter
you shall see
heaven open
and the angels
of God
ascending
and descending
upon the
Son of Man
verily, verily
I say to you
hereafter
you shall see
heaven open
and the angels
of God
ascending
and descending
upon the
Son of Man
this
this is that
John has written
his gospel
in such a way
that this is
in a sense
the end of the
introduction
and in John
chapter 2
the book
is going
to change
we're going
to be launched
into a series
of significant
miracles of Jesus
which John
probes beyond
the reality
of the miracle
to what the miracle
points to
about who Jesus
is and who we
as human beings
are and who God
is and what
our need is
and what we are
called to do
and then after that
there is to be
the long
description
of the
last supper
and Jesus
with his disciples
and then the
crucifixion
and John
chapter 1
this is in a sense
the end of the
introduction
and Jesus
and John
ends the end
of the introduction
with this statement
of Jesus
this true statement
of Jesus
verily
and he says
that there are
two things
that Nathaniel
is going to see
and the first
thing he says
he's going to see
heaven opened
and that is
in a sense
a coded way
of Jesus saying
I have come
to bring salvation
heaven is closed
to us
as human beings
and
we are
broken people
we are fallen
people
we are people
who fall short
of the glory
of God
all have sinned
and fall short
of the glory
of God
and heaven
is far off
God is far off
and we are
alienated
and separate
from him
and we cannot
open the gate
of heaven
ourselves
we cannot reach
up to God
ourselves
we cannot
know God
truly by ourselves
none is righteous
no not one
and I have
come to
open heaven
so that you
can come in
I have come
from God
to bring salvation
I have come
from God
to do that
which no human
being can do
by themselves
or in and of
themselves
they are neither
worthy of it
nor do they
have the power
I have come
to open heaven
and secondly
I have come
and you will see
the angels
of God
ascending
and descending
upon the
son of man
and we will
look at what
the son of man
means more
in the coming
weeks
it is Jesus
title about
himself
but what we
see here
is that he
has come
to bring
true knowledge
of God
he has come
to bring
so that
in a sense
the angels
can ascend
and descend
that there
is true
knowledge
that comes
from God
through Jesus
to us human
beings
and that our
true knowledge
of God
himself
in a sense
us going
back up
towards God
that that
can ascend
and as there's
the knowledge
of God
that descends
and our
heartfelt prayer
and our
conversation
and our
hearts
and our
minds
and our
longings
and our
yearnings
and even
our bodies
being able
to ascend
through Jesus
to God
himself
true words
of God
that descend
and our
true need
to talk
to God
that can
ascend
Jesus
is the
one
who will
bring
revelation
remember
earlier on
I said
that at
the heart
of the
difference
in this
continuing
crisis
that it
faces the
Anglican
Church of
Canada
it's not
over
people who
experience
same-sex
attraction
I mean
friends
every single
one of us
here is
sexually
broken
every single
one of us
here is
in need
of grace
the crisis
is over
whether this
statement
of Jesus
is true
or not
is it
true
or is it
not
is in fact
Jesus
the one
who has
come from
God
breaking
into our
human order
to open
the gate
and the
door of
heaven
so that
we might
enter
in other
words
is he
the one
who brings
a salvation
from God
that only
God can
offer
and only
God
can bring
and that
we must
receive
or is
salvation
something
that through
our own
effort
our own
cleverness
our own
definition
our own
power
that we
somehow
achieve
and create
is
Jesus
the one
who brings
true knowledge
of God
and the one
that allows
us to
truly speak
to God
and
communicate
with God
or is he
just one
who brings
us some
more
metaphors
some more
similes
some more
allegories
some more
little pieces
of the puzzle
for us to
put together
ourselves
Jesus
says he
is the
one who
has come
to open
heaven
and to
bring true
revelation
of God
to us
fallen
human
beings
and this
means
that what
he has
come is
not just
something
which is a
curious fact
that can be
put in the
news of the
world or
national inquire
or people
magazine
oh by the
way do you
know that
there's somebody
who's come
who can
open heaven
and bring
revelation
it's not
just some
idle fact
to tickle
our curiosity
we are to
come to him
we are to
come to him
and since he
comes from God
and brings that
which only God
can do
and that we
are powerless
in and of
ourselves to do
it means that
the words of
Jesus come
unto me all
who labor
and are heavy
laden
I will give
you rest
take my
yoke upon
you and learn
from me
for I am
gentle and
lowly of heart
and you will
find rest
for your soul
for my yoke
is easy
and my
burden is
light
it means that
we are come
to Jesus
to know
salvation
we are come
to come
to Jesus
to know
God
and that
when we
come to
Jesus
he takes
us upon
him
he takes
us to
himself
and he
places
his yoke
upon us
so that
we can be
made whole
and we
can be
made free
and
we can
be fit
for heaven
let's bow
our heads
in prayer
Jesus
we thank
and praise
you that
you are
so patient
with us
and so
loving
we thank
and praise
you that
we are all
Nathaniels here
and you
see us
as we
walk
and sleep
and go
about our
24-7 day
and you
see us
perfectly
and you
see right
into the
depths of
who we
are perfectly
and still
you love
us
and still
you desire
us to
come to
yourself
that you
desire us
to come
to you
to know
you
and to
have your
yoke upon
us
that you
desire
seeing us
as we
really are
not to
condemn us
but to
grant us
true rest
for our
souls
Jesus
we invite
and give
you
permission
to reach
out
even now
in this
place
to reach
out and
touch us
and draw
us closer
to yourself
Jesus
we invite
and give
you permission
to pour
out your
Holy Spirit
the very
love
and life
and health
and of
God
himself
God
himself
pour out
your Holy
Spirit
upon us
draw us
to yourself
and through
yourself
bring us
to the
Father
this we
ask in
your name
alone
Jesus
Amen