WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:14.000
 Hello everyone, welcome back.

00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:17.879
 This is our third and final little section on the Empire Next Door.

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 We're going to be talking about the Persians, right?

00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:23.640
 John Belts is with us again for the last time.

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 Why don't I open and pray?

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 Father in heaven, we thank you for the opportunity to study the cultural background of your word.

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 We ask that you would bless John with wisdom, that you give us ears to hear.

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 We pray, Lord, that this would be a fruitful time for us and for our church.

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 And we ask this in the name of Jesus. Amen.

00:00:45.620 --> 00:00:49.120
 All right. Hi, everybody. Good to see you all today.

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 So it's been a little bit since we didn't have class last week, obviously, because we had Easter.

00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:02.939
 So I'll just start with a little bit of review from where we were previous two sessions.

00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:15.079
 So we started with a little bit of introduction about the fact that the ancient Israelites in the Bible are not exactly big players on the scene.

00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:20.719
 They end up sort of being the little guy between some more powerful empires geopolitically.

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 We talked about the fact that even though they're a small power, the area, geographically, the area that they inhabit is highly desirable by those empires.

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 As sort of a land bridge connecting Asia, Europe, and Africa.

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 We talked about the Assyrian Empire.

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 That's me looking scared again.

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 We talked about the Babylonian Empire.

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 Babylonian Empire.

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 Where...

00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:01.859
 Oops.

00:02:02.479 --> 00:02:02.659
 Ah!

00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:04.199
 Stop that.

00:02:08.979 --> 00:02:09.840
 Where's my map?

00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:11.280
 There's my map.

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 We talked about the Babylonian Empire.

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 And if you'll remember a little bit, we had, you know, the Assyrians kind of menaced Judah.

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 They destroyed the northern kingdom of Israel.

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 The Babylonians finally destroy Jerusalem and carry off a lot of the people into captivity in Babylon.

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 And now we'll get the Persians, sort of the conclusion to our trilogy.

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 There's sort of a metaphor that I used when I was teaching this for a class one time,

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 where I said it's like the Star Wars trilogy, right?

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 From the Judean perspective, this is the Star Wars trilogy.

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 You have the Assyrians come, right?

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 They have a Death Star.

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 They blow up the northern kingdom, otherwise known as the planet Alderaan.

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 And then, right?

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 But then Sennacherib's Death Star is destroyed outside the gates of Jerusalem.

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 So, you know, the Babylonian Empire is kind of the empire strikes back, right?

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 They come in.

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 They take out Jerusalem.

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 Now we're going to get the return of the Judeans.

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 Glad you're getting the metaphor.

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 This makes my day.

00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:18.479
 Okay.

00:03:19.819 --> 00:03:25.780
 So, what we're going to do today in talking about this third empire, the Persians,

00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:30.319
 I'm going to start with a little bit of history of sort of the Persian Empire itself.

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 Then we're going to talk a little bit about their culture,

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 so what that was like, what made them similar and different to the empires before them.

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 And then we're going to talk specifically about some of the biblical connections

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 that we get with the Persian Empire.

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 And I wanted to start with two biblical references to kind of give us a little bit of sort of a jumping off point.

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 So, they're both from Ezra.

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 The first is from the very beginning of the book.

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 Thus says King Cyrus of Persia,

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 The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth,

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 and he has charged me to build him a house at Jerusalem in Judah.

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 Any of those among you who are his people, may their God be with them,

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 are now permitted to go up to Jerusalem in Judah and rebuild the house of the Lord, the God of Israel.

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 He is the God who is in Jerusalem.

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 And then later in the book, in Ezra 6, we get a letter written from a Persian emperor,

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 and he gives some instructions, and then he says,

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 Furthermore, I decree that if anyone alters this edict, a beam shall be pulled out of the house of the perpetrator.

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 Who shall then be impaled upon it?

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 And the house shall be made a dunghill.

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 So, I bring these two passages up here to sort of,

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 there's sort of a dichotomy that we're going to get with the Persians.

00:05:01.180 --> 00:05:06.960
 On the one hand, the Judeans will really seem to like them,

00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:12.259
 because Cyrus will issue this decree allowing the exiled Judeans,

00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:17.159
 who were carried off by the Babylonians, to return to Jerusalem if they want to.

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 And they tend to have pretty good relations, the Persians and the Judeans.

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 On the other hand, the Persians are still very ruthless,

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 and they will use this kind of very graphic public execution.

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 So, we often get this sort of idea that the, you know, we talked about this in the previous sessions,

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 but the Assyrian Empire gets this reputation for being sort of very incredibly ruthless,

00:05:51.479 --> 00:05:52.459
 reveling in their cruelty.

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 The Babylonians also get a reputation for that,

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 although in their own sources, they don't seem to be quite as

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 reveling in their sadism as the Assyrians.

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 And the Persians kind of, they get a little bit of a reputation in the history of being

00:06:08.799 --> 00:06:13.359
 sort of the benevolent empire, the nicer empire.

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 And in some ways, that's true, and in some ways, that's not.

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 As you can see, they're still more than willing to threaten people with impalement.

00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:20.960
 Right?

00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:27.400
 So, but let's talk a little bit about what this history looks like.

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 So, as I said before, we had, or last time, I should say, we had the Babylonian Empire.

00:06:35.740 --> 00:06:44.060
 And the Babylonians had previously, if we go back even further, this is the problem,

00:06:44.139 --> 00:06:46.579
 the more of these that you do, then the more you have to review every time.

00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:47.079
 Right?

00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:56.879
 So, the Babylonians had originally teamed up with a group called the Medes to take out the Assyrians

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 when they kind of got a little bit tired of the cruelty that the Assyrians used in dealing with people.

00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:14.599
 There's later some friction that kind of happens between the Babylonians and the Medes.

00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:19.779
 A group called the Persians, probably a fairly sort of newcomer group on the scene,

00:07:20.860 --> 00:07:24.800
 takes over the Medes, and there's sort of this long shared border that they have,

00:07:24.939 --> 00:07:27.779
 and there's sort of a, there's a tension there for a little while.

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 And eventually the, this sort of coalition of Medes, Persians, Elamites, and probably a couple other groups of people

00:07:37.099 --> 00:07:46.959
 united under this ruler by the name of Cyrus, invade the heartland of Babylonia there in southern Mesopotamia.

00:07:48.539 --> 00:07:55.979
 And this coincides with the reign of the last Babylonian king by the name of Nabonidus,

00:07:55.980 --> 00:07:58.620
 who was very unpopular in some circles.

00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:06.400
 So, there were certain factions in Babylonia that also probably welcomed this sort of regime change.

00:08:08.860 --> 00:08:15.740
 And Cyrus seems to have, when he took over, played to some of these groups, right?

00:08:15.780 --> 00:08:23.020
 There were certain priestly groups who didn't like some of the religious changes that Nabonidus had initiated.

00:08:23.019 --> 00:08:31.419
 And so, they probably were grateful to Cyrus, and he, in turn, patronized them to get loyal supporters in his new territory.

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 And certain groups of foreign deportees as well.

00:08:35.259 --> 00:08:38.000
 Cyrus seems to have patronized them as well.

00:08:38.699 --> 00:08:44.519
 Not patronized in terms of they're there, but patronized in terms of giving money and support too.

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 And the Judean exiles seem to have been one of those groups.

00:08:52.980 --> 00:09:01.419
 So, Cyrus's empire, as you can tell, stretches a lot further than the previous two empires we've looked at.

00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:14.759
 It goes sort of from what is today Iran out in the east there down up through, like, to the coasts of Turkey, what is today Turkey in the west.

00:09:16.659 --> 00:09:23.599
 And his successors will actually get down in and conquer Egypt for a while, which even the Assyrians weren't really able to do.

00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:30.179
 They were able to raid there, take back loot, but they weren't really able to hold that area.

00:09:30.179 --> 00:09:41.279
 And sort of like we did with the Assyrians and the Babylonians, I want to divide the history of the Persian Empire into sort of three periods.

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 We call this, so the first one being sort of the rise to power.

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 This is the reign of Cyrus and his son Cambyses.

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 Cambyses is actually the one who takes over Egypt.

00:09:51.679 --> 00:10:01.639
 Then we get the reformers, or a group I have termed the reformers.

00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:05.599
 Cambyses actually dies under mysterious circumstances.

00:10:06.939 --> 00:10:15.079
 And a Persian noble by the name of Darius seizes control and takes out a number of potential rivals for the throne.

00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:24.879
 He claims ancestry from a royal figure named Achaemenes, which is where we then get the term Achaemenid from.

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:27.139
 So this is sometimes called the Achaemenid Persian Empire.

00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:36.000
 And Darius makes a number of major administrative reforms in the empire to kind of help keep it together.

00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:41.860
 So he divides it up into a series of satrapies or sort of provinces.

00:10:42.620 --> 00:10:47.879
 He does a number of different reforms in terms of the administrative languages that they're using.

00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:52.720
 Is this for Aramaic? Did they use Aramaic?

00:10:52.720 --> 00:11:02.100
 Yeah, this is probably when he is probably the one who initiates the move towards putting all their administrative apparatus in Aramaic.

00:11:02.379 --> 00:11:06.160
 As opposed to, they were trying to do it in Elamite for a while, which is interesting.

00:11:07.620 --> 00:11:13.500
 And is that ultimately why hundreds of years later many Jews were speaking Aramaic?

00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:15.120
 Partly, yeah.

00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.460
 We'll get to that a little bit when I get to culture.

00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:30.879
 But, yeah, that helped a trend that was already happening of Aramaic being a commonly spoken sort of lingua franca throughout the Near East.

00:11:33.420 --> 00:11:36.300
 So we have Darius and then we have his son Xerxes.

00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:41.840
 Both these figures, again, might sound familiar if you know some Greek history.

00:11:42.160 --> 00:11:43.820
 Or, again, they both show up in the Bible.

00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:44.680
 We'll get to that later.

00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:50.459
 But both Darius and Xerxes actually will campaign into the Aegean and into Greece.

00:11:50.599 --> 00:11:56.579
 And that will show up in certain Greek sources like Herodotus and, I think, Thucydides and stuff like that.

00:11:56.699 --> 00:12:06.339
 So those wars between the Greeks and the Persians are well attested in the Greek sources.

00:12:06.479 --> 00:12:07.439
 They talk about that a lot.

00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:09.819
 That was a big, pivotal moment for them.

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 And then we have a period after that that I've sort of referred to as, like, the status quo.

00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:22.740
 It's a lot more static than the two periods before it.

00:12:23.680 --> 00:12:25.160
 It's also a lot longer, right?

00:12:25.220 --> 00:12:30.820
 So we get the 460s down to about 330.

00:12:30.820 --> 00:12:34.960
 Right, so that's 130-some years.

00:12:35.780 --> 00:12:37.260
 It's not really static.

00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:38.920
 There's definitely things that are happening.

00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:46.800
 There's sort of more politicking that happens between the Greek city-states and the Persians in the western part of the empire.

00:12:47.379 --> 00:12:50.100
 Egypt keeps trying to rebel and they keep having to smash it down.

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 But the grand sweep of the empire and its borders remains fairly consistent.

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 Again, there's a few, like, attempted coups and things like that.

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 But the empire sort of continues to function.

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 And this is probably a result of some of these administrative reforms that were made under Darius.

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 It kind of allowed the empire to sort of continue to function.

00:13:17.500 --> 00:13:18.899
 And we'll talk about that in a sec.

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 But the empire continued to function basically until a guy by the name of Alexander,

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 who is Macedonian, conquers Greece, while his dad, I guess, conquered Greece,

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 launches a campaign into Persia at a time that was sort of politically inopportune for the Persian monarchy.

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 And he's able to take, basically, at that point, he's able to take over the Persian empire.

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 And so Alexander is often thought of as, like, the last Persian king, even though he's Greek slash Macedonian.

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 But after his death, the empire begins to fracture within a few years.

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 And his generals kind of end up dividing up the empire between them.

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 And we'll get a whole series of empires that are sort of carved out of this territory.

00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.779
 But that's kind of, and that's sort of where we put the end of the Persian empire.

00:14:10.779 --> 00:14:23.059
 So in terms of culture, so this is an inscription that is, so interestingly written in,

00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:27.240
 this inscription is written in Babylonian, Babylonian Akkadian.

00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:32.500
 But it is an inscription by a Persian king.

00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:40.240
 So the Persians tended to be a lot more decentralized than a lot of the previous empires,

00:14:40.340 --> 00:14:41.799
 like the Assyrians and the Babylonians.

00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:47.299
 They tended to allow provinces and the governors of those provinces to be fairly independent

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 and have a significant amount of autonomy as long as they paid taxes,

00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:55.820
 provided levied troops for the royal campaigns and stuff like that.

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 And they also drew a lot from the cultures that they conquered.

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 So they sort of have this model that, you know, if they take over your region

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 and you have really good metal workers, they'll say,

00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.120
 hey, why don't you send us some metal workers?

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 If we ever have any metalworking needs, we come to you, right?

00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:21.180
 Just pay your taxes, send troops when we need them, don't rebel, everything's going to be good.

00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:26.100
 So this is sort of that, like, lighter touch that historians sometimes talk about

00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:33.920
 with the Persian Empire, that they weren't quite as demanding or quite as cruel.

00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:39.320
 They were, again, a little bit easier to deal with if you're a conquered people group

00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:40.659
 than the Assyrians and the Babylonians.

00:15:41.300 --> 00:15:46.240
 Although, again, as we said, they do tend to do things like impale people.

00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:54.980
 In fact, most of the other claimants to the throne that Darius had to contend with

00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:59.360
 after the death of Cambyses, when he captured them, he mostly just impaled them.

00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:03.940
 Or he cut off their noses and ears and paraded them around to show what happens

00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:05.659
 if you go against him.

00:16:06.060 --> 00:16:07.100
 So he was not a nice guy.

00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:11.500
 But anyway, sorry, I digress.

00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:18.860
 This, I bring this inscription up to show partly that when the Persians took over,

00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:26.560
 for example, Mesopotamia, rather than instituting Persian as sort of the language

00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:32.220
 that they would make everyone use, they even put, they put even royal inscriptions often

00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:34.060
 in Babylonian.

00:16:35.139 --> 00:16:39.080
 And we actually have cases where we'll have, this is actually, I think,

00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:46.660
 one of a set of three slabs in different languages.

00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:50.639
 So there's one that is written in Persian, there's one that's written in Babylonian,

00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.300
 and there's one that's written in Elamite.

00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.100
 And they will commonly do these trilingual inscriptions.

00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:58.759
 And then some of them you find from Egypt, and they're quadrilingual.

00:16:58.800 --> 00:17:01.180
 They'll add in Egyptian, too, because the Egyptians were really kind of,

00:17:01.179 --> 00:17:03.879
 they really wanted their language to be represented.

00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.899
 So the Persians said, well, okay, we'll start putting Egyptian on there, too.

00:17:09.639 --> 00:17:14.899
 So they started to, again, sort of incorporate a lot of languages

00:17:14.899 --> 00:17:19.639
 and a lot of even artistic styles from some of the peoples that they conquered.

00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:27.500
 As Tom mentioned earlier, right, so the language, the Aramaic language,

00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:31.859
 which originated here in what's today Syria,

00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.839
 was becoming sort of more of like a lingua franca throughout the Near East.

00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:40.119
 And this was happening as early as the Assyrian period.

00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:44.039
 There's Assyrian kings who have letters where they say,

00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:45.880
 stop writing to me in Aramaic.

00:17:46.579 --> 00:17:48.559
 I would like you to write to me in Akkadian.

00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:55.119
 So this was so popular that people were kind of trying to make it a more official language.

00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:03.079
 And the Assyrian and Babylonian kings didn't really want to deal with that.

00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:04.819
 But the Persians saw this as an opportunity.

00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:06.759
 They said, well, if everybody wants to speak this one language,

00:18:06.819 --> 00:18:07.639
 why don't we just use that?

00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.840
 And so they did.

00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:18.460
 And this, of course, then accelerated the usage of Aramaic throughout the Near East.

00:18:18.520 --> 00:18:20.480
 So we have it being used down here in Egypt.

00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:25.160
 We have texts from Central Asia that are written in Aramaic,

00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:26.880
 although I think it's fairly bad Aramaic.

00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:31.700
 It was definitely somebody who had just picked this language up fairly recently, right?

00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:40.799
 So they have this sort of sense in which they can use sort of the tools around them, right?

00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.019
 They conquer a people group and they're like,

00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:47.160
 well, what can you sort of contribute to sort of our larger conglomeration that we have here?

00:18:50.059 --> 00:18:53.600
 And their art draws a lot from Mesopotamia.

00:18:53.599 --> 00:19:01.759
 When they conquered Mesopotamia, they did a lot of this sort of hybridization,

00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:03.459
 not hybridization isn't quite the right word,

00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:07.679
 but sort of incorporating it into their own sort of style and aesthetic.

00:19:07.919 --> 00:19:14.379
 So these are some Persian columns that, along with this text,

00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.359
 these are now in the University of Chicago.

00:19:17.019 --> 00:19:20.079
 They did some excavations in what is today southern Iran

00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:23.740
 and have some different Persian stuff there.

00:19:24.939 --> 00:19:28.500
 The inscription on the right here is an inscription in Old Persian.

00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:32.639
 Again, one of a series that was probably a trilingual inscription.

00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:34.799
 I have a quick question.

00:19:35.099 --> 00:19:35.259
 Yeah.

00:19:36.179 --> 00:19:36.939
 I have two questions.

00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:40.419
 First, was there like a technological innovation

00:19:40.419 --> 00:19:44.480
 that allowed Persia to conquer all their lands?

00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:45.779
 Like what made that so formidable?

00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:48.539
 Was this a simple American army?

00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:51.879
 I don't know what the provinces is.

00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:54.480
 What was so terrifying about the first part?

00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:00.500
 So there's some suggest, there's certain Greek authors

00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:08.519
 who suggested that they might have had some organizational innovations.

00:20:09.159 --> 00:20:11.779
 We're not quite sure how much we trust them because there's,

00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:13.659
 correct me if I'm wrong on this, Tom,

00:20:13.660 --> 00:20:16.680
 but I think it's Herodotus who says that,

00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:17.460
 it was a Greek historian,

00:20:17.580 --> 00:20:20.960
 who says that before Cyrus,

00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:25.600
 all of these Near Eastern armies,

00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:27.460
 they had just a bunch of dudes.

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:28.700
 They weren't organized.

00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.640
 They'd have like archers and spearmen and swordsmen

00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:32.680
 all kind of together,

00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:34.500
 and they'd just sort of throw them into battle

00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:37.019
 like a big, you know, sort of mass of people,

00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:37.820
 like a big mob.

00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:39.259
 And Cyrus was like,

00:20:39.300 --> 00:20:40.340
 well, we should start organizing them

00:20:40.339 --> 00:20:42.339
 and put the archers here and the spearmen there and stuff.

00:20:42.919 --> 00:20:44.819
 And we know that's actually not true, right?

00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:46.459
 Because we have depictions of battles

00:20:46.459 --> 00:20:48.639
 from previous empires

00:20:48.639 --> 00:20:50.339
 and previous civilizations in the Near East,

00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:51.659
 and we know that they organize, right?

00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:52.059
 It's,

00:20:52.059 --> 00:20:56.319
 any large human endeavor is going to have to organize,

00:20:56.679 --> 00:20:59.139
 and the Mesopotamians were great at organizing things.

00:20:59.199 --> 00:21:01.119
 That's why they developed the cuneiform writing system,

00:21:01.179 --> 00:21:02.480
 was to help them organize stuff better.

00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.779
 So we know that that's not true,

00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:09.579
 but Herodotus may be saying this

00:21:09.579 --> 00:21:11.380
 because he had heard some stuff about

00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:14.500
 some kind of logistical reforms

00:21:14.500 --> 00:21:16.019
 that they may have done,

00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:20.460
 and he kind of just didn't get the full detail of it,

00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:22.539
 or he heard it second or third hand.

00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:25.500
 So the other reason,

00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:27.700
 one of the other possible reasons is,

00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:31.019
 again, like this sort of different alliance of peoples,

00:21:31.019 --> 00:21:32.940
 the fact that you have Medes up here,

00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:33.799
 Persians here,

00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:35.660
 Persians take over the Medes,

00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:37.559
 then they take over another group here

00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:38.859
 in central Anatolia.

00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.839
 So they kind of have a lot that they have going on,

00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:43.920
 and then combined with the fact

00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.579
 that a lot of people in Babylonia

00:21:46.579 --> 00:21:48.119
 really didn't like Nabonidus,

00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:48.859
 their current king,

00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:50.599
 it makes that a lot easier.

00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:54.019
 It's presented in the sources

00:21:54.019 --> 00:21:55.460
 as though that campaign took

00:21:55.460 --> 00:21:57.480
 like a very short amount of time,

00:21:57.539 --> 00:21:58.319
 like they went in

00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:00.639
 and just took over Babylon like that.

00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:03.579
 There's been some research in recent years

00:22:03.579 --> 00:22:05.379
 that suggested that it may have been

00:22:05.379 --> 00:22:06.660
 a little bit more of a slog

00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:08.139
 for the Persians to get through there,

00:22:08.859 --> 00:22:09.619
 but you can tell,

00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:10.839
 I mean, they're already,

00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:13.039
 so this is mountains right here,

00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:15.579
 so it's very easy for them to kind of,

00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:19.980
 they're relatively safer up in the mountains,

00:22:20.639 --> 00:22:22.099
 but they can kind of swoop down

00:22:22.099 --> 00:22:24.160
 into what is essentially the Babylonian's

00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:25.740
 sort of core or heartland

00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:27.799
 right there from the mountains.

00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:28.680
 So strategically,

00:22:28.919 --> 00:22:29.839
 they have a good position,

00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:30.980
 right?

00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.960
 And it's one of the constants

00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:35.659
 throughout Mesopotamian history,

00:22:35.879 --> 00:22:36.879
 sorry, this is another digression,

00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:38.859
 but one of the constants

00:22:38.859 --> 00:22:39.859
 throughout Mesopotamian history

00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:41.980
 is that these peoples here

00:22:41.980 --> 00:22:44.480
 living in the sort of river valley

00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:45.519
 of the Tigris and the Euphrates

00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.619
 are always kind of at the mercy

00:22:47.619 --> 00:22:49.220
 of mountain peoples,

00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:49.980
 as they saw them,

00:22:50.059 --> 00:22:50.980
 who live up there in the mountains

00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:52.940
 and can strike and then retreat.

00:22:52.940 --> 00:22:54.960
 So they have to sort of build

00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.360
 these larger civilizations and empires

00:22:57.360 --> 00:22:58.920
 that have the resources

00:22:58.920 --> 00:22:59.860
 and the infrastructure

00:22:59.860 --> 00:23:00.720
 and the organization

00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.500
 to be able to either withstand attack

00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:04.779
 or in some cases,

00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:05.900
 go up into the mountains

00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:07.460
 and try to knock these people out

00:23:07.460 --> 00:23:08.480
 before they become a problem.

00:23:09.259 --> 00:23:11.259
 So it's one of these things that,

00:23:11.660 --> 00:23:13.160
 some of the things happening

00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:14.120
 in Nabonidus' reign

00:23:14.120 --> 00:23:16.299
 meant that he might not have

00:23:16.299 --> 00:23:18.100
 contained that situation

00:23:18.100 --> 00:23:20.860
 as well as he could have

00:23:20.859 --> 00:23:22.859
 or should have combined

00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:23.740
 with just sort of

00:23:23.740 --> 00:23:24.579
 the historical factors

00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:26.500
 of this ever-growing alliance

00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:27.259
 of people up there.

00:23:27.379 --> 00:23:29.219
 He might have been kind of doomed

00:23:29.219 --> 00:23:30.619
 even if he had got his act together.

00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:33.279
 Why are you on the map there?

00:23:33.419 --> 00:23:33.639
 Sure.

00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:34.719
 Where are the Elamites?

00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:37.319
 So they're also right here.

00:23:37.459 --> 00:23:37.679
 Okay.

00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:38.219
 Yeah.

00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:39.539
 In fact, so the Persians kind of,

00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:40.799
 it seems like they kind of

00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:42.359
 come into that area

00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.919
 and sort of mingle together

00:23:44.919 --> 00:23:46.359
 with the Elamites

00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.119
 so that when you have,

00:23:49.659 --> 00:23:50.539
 sort of to the point

00:23:50.539 --> 00:23:51.299
 that when you have people

00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:52.599
 later calling themselves Persians,

00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.039
 they may also be like part Elamites.

00:23:55.099 --> 00:23:55.720
 It's sort of a,

00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:56.519
 it's one of these things

00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:57.139
 where like ethnicity

00:23:57.139 --> 00:23:57.839
 gets kind of tricky.

00:23:59.259 --> 00:23:59.839
 And again,

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:02.700
 so from sort of Cyrus

00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:04.639
 through the early reign of Darius,

00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:06.740
 they're actually trying to,

00:24:06.859 --> 00:24:07.779
 the Persians are actually trying

00:24:07.779 --> 00:24:08.619
 to use Elamite

00:24:08.619 --> 00:24:09.839
 as their administrative language

00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:10.779
 before they got the idea

00:24:10.779 --> 00:24:11.180
 to be like,

00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:11.480
 you know what?

00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:12.639
 Everyone's just speaking Aramaic.

00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:13.599
 Let's just use Aramaic.

00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:14.740
 It's just too hard, right?

00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:15.379
 You know, no one's going

00:24:15.379 --> 00:24:16.579
 to learn Elamite

00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:17.379
 that we only use

00:24:17.379 --> 00:24:18.279
 in this one little area.

00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:20.119
 It's so much easier.

00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:21.299
 So many people speak Aramaic.

00:24:21.379 --> 00:24:22.019
 Let's just use Aramaic.

00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:24.319
 Does it make sense

00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:25.379
 with the alliances

00:24:25.379 --> 00:24:26.339
 because it seemed like

00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:27.399
 the Lord always

00:24:27.399 --> 00:24:28.500
 chided Israel

00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:30.319
 for trusting these alliances

00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:31.519
 with the surrounding nations

00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:33.079
 versus trusting him

00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:34.539
 for their defense

00:24:34.539 --> 00:24:35.259
 and their salvation.

00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:36.940
 And it makes sense

00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:37.440
 that Persians

00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:38.859
 were really big into alliances

00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:40.000
 and that we really tempted

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:41.759
 when that comes from the empire.

00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:42.839
 Well, this is,

00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:43.799
 well this is,

00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:44.779
 and we can come back to this

00:24:44.779 --> 00:24:46.720
 maybe in the Q&A a little bit,

00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:47.740
 but this comes back

00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:48.420
 to the,

00:24:49.940 --> 00:24:50.960
 do, do, do, do, do,

00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.299
 this sort of thing, right?

00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:53.960
 If you're,

00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:54.980
 if you're this guy,

00:24:55.100 --> 00:24:56.120
 making an alliance

00:24:56.120 --> 00:24:57.200
 is a good thing for you.

00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:57.700
 You can do that.

00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:58.079
 That's fine.

00:24:58.240 --> 00:24:59.160
 If you're this guy,

00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:01.079
 you're trying to make

00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:02.079
 alliances to survive,

00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.500
 but those alliances,

00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:04.620
 like you don't have any power

00:25:04.620 --> 00:25:05.259
 in those alliances.

00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:06.600
 So a lot of times

00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:07.180
 when the prophets

00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:09.579
 warn people about,

00:25:09.740 --> 00:25:09.940
 you know,

00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:10.860
 don't trust Egypt,

00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:11.960
 it's because,

00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:13.299
 don't make an alliance

00:25:13.299 --> 00:25:13.559
 with Egypt,

00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:14.140
 it's because you can't

00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:15.940
 trust Egypt, right?

00:25:15.940 --> 00:25:17.039
 Egypt doesn't have your back.

00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:18.799
 Egypt just wants you

00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:19.840
 to be a buffer zone

00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:20.519
 against this guy.

00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:21.720
 They want you

00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:22.320
 as a meat shield

00:25:22.320 --> 00:25:22.840
 against that guy,

00:25:22.840 --> 00:25:23.559
 and this guy wants you

00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:23.980
 as a meat shield

00:25:23.980 --> 00:25:24.600
 against that guy.

00:25:25.360 --> 00:25:26.360
 So that's a big part

00:25:26.360 --> 00:25:26.980
 of it as well.

00:25:28.820 --> 00:25:31.539
 There's a geopolitical aspect

00:25:31.539 --> 00:25:32.779
 to that as well

00:25:32.779 --> 00:25:34.340
 that goes into it.

00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:35.960
 Whereas, again,

00:25:36.019 --> 00:25:36.640
 for the bigger guys,

00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:37.160
 like the alliances

00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:38.360
 make more sense,

00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:38.860
 you know,

00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:40.640
 because they want people

00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:41.299
 to sort of be part

00:25:41.299 --> 00:25:41.960
 of their agenda.

00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.840
 So the power dynamic

00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:47.220
 is sort of in their favor.

00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:55.200
 Okay.

00:25:57.920 --> 00:25:58.920
 The other thing I'll say

00:25:58.920 --> 00:25:59.819
 before we move on

00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:01.059
 from Persian culture

00:26:01.059 --> 00:26:03.680
 is that the Persians

00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:04.819
 also in this sort of,

00:26:04.900 --> 00:26:05.579
 along with this sort of

00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:07.539
 decentralized sort of model

00:26:07.539 --> 00:26:08.120
 that they have,

00:26:08.180 --> 00:26:09.860
 they actually have multiple,

00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:11.120
 they have like five capitals.

00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:13.119
 So they have,

00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:18.000
 there's two capitals,

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.459
 well, three over here

00:26:19.459 --> 00:26:21.000
 in sort of the Persian heartland.

00:26:21.179 --> 00:26:22.939
 They have Susa,

00:26:23.219 --> 00:26:24.500
 which was an Elamite city,

00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:26.799
 shows up in Esther, right?

00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:27.559
 That's where most of the action

00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:28.779
 takes place in the book of Esther.

00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:33.319
 They have a city called Pisargaday,

00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:35.819
 which I think was founded by Cyrus,

00:26:35.959 --> 00:26:36.619
 if I'm not mistaken,

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.459
 and Persepolis,

00:26:39.500 --> 00:26:40.799
 which I think was founded by Darius.

00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:44.019
 Then there's also,

00:26:44.899 --> 00:26:45.619
 further up here,

00:26:45.719 --> 00:26:47.239
 there's a Median capital city

00:26:47.239 --> 00:26:48.459
 that they used as another capital

00:26:48.459 --> 00:26:49.959
 called Ekbatana.

00:26:51.179 --> 00:26:54.399
 And then they also used Babylon here,

00:26:55.699 --> 00:26:56.079
 or sorry,

00:26:56.139 --> 00:26:57.579
 it's closer to there,

00:26:57.819 --> 00:26:58.579
 closer to Baghdad,

00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.579
 as another capital city

00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:04.179
 within their empire.

00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:05.059
 So that's, yeah,

00:27:05.139 --> 00:27:06.619
 it's like five capitals.

00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:08.519
 And they kind of,

00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:10.039
 the royal court seems to have moved

00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:11.439
 between these different capitals

00:27:11.439 --> 00:27:12.179
 at different points,

00:27:12.399 --> 00:27:14.419
 just because they could.

00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:17.679
 As I said, too,

00:27:17.739 --> 00:27:18.939
 they bring a slightly different

00:27:18.939 --> 00:27:20.319
 royal ideology with them.

00:27:20.379 --> 00:27:21.819
 So we talked about with the Assyrians,

00:27:22.659 --> 00:27:24.219
 how they have this idea

00:27:24.219 --> 00:27:27.079
 that the king is the high priest

00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.259
 of the Assyrian god Ashur,

00:27:29.259 --> 00:27:31.759
 and sort of,

00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.160
 he is the mediation

00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:35.180
 between that deity

00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:36.079
 and humanity.

00:27:36.579 --> 00:27:37.700
 With the Babylonians,

00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:39.039
 we had a slightly different idea

00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:42.259
 that the Babylonian king

00:27:42.259 --> 00:27:44.460
 is the king,

00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:45.440
 he's not the priest.

00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:47.160
 There are also priests,

00:27:47.779 --> 00:27:48.579
 and there is the king.

00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:50.339
 And so then you have

00:27:50.339 --> 00:27:53.160
 these semi-independent temple estates

00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.279
 that control a lot of,

00:27:55.660 --> 00:27:56.480
 have a lot of power

00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:57.720
 within Babylonian society

00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.480
 that are distinct from the king.

00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:04.220
 With the Persian kings,

00:28:04.900 --> 00:28:06.120
 they sort of continue,

00:28:06.300 --> 00:28:06.480
 again,

00:28:06.620 --> 00:28:09.460
 that slightly decentralized model

00:28:09.460 --> 00:28:12.480
 or this model of essentially

00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:13.860
 sort of provinces,

00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:14.800
 in some cases,

00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:16.279
 almost have their own

00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:19.000
 semi-autonomy.

00:28:19.340 --> 00:28:20.040
 To the point that

00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:23.119
 in the status quo period,

00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:24.480
 there's actually two

00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.899
 provincial governors up here

00:28:26.899 --> 00:28:28.420
 called satraps,

00:28:28.659 --> 00:28:29.740
 and two of these satraps

00:28:29.740 --> 00:28:30.399
 actually go to war

00:28:30.399 --> 00:28:30.960
 with each other.

00:28:31.700 --> 00:28:32.700
 And the king is just like,

00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:33.440
 you know what,

00:28:33.500 --> 00:28:35.159
 just keep paying your taxes,

00:28:35.379 --> 00:28:36.039
 I don't care what you guys

00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:36.500
 do to each other.

00:28:37.339 --> 00:28:37.500
 You know,

00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:38.940
 the king doesn't really

00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:39.440
 get involved.

00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:42.779
 They were,

00:28:42.940 --> 00:28:43.159
 however,

00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:43.819
 like I said,

00:28:43.940 --> 00:28:46.200
 just still just as,

00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.500
 could be still just as ruthless

00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:48.200
 as the Assyrians

00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:48.980
 and the Babylonians.

00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:52.039
 Darius and his successors

00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:52.940
 state in their inscriptions

00:28:52.940 --> 00:28:54.399
 that they were fiercely opposed

00:28:54.399 --> 00:28:55.359
 to what they called

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:56.339
 the lie

00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:58.299
 and that all their opponents

00:28:58.299 --> 00:28:59.420
 they styled as being

00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:01.139
 servants of the lie.

00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:03.500
 And this seems to have been

00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.659
 an ideological thing.

00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:08.740
 It may be related to

00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:12.440
 what later we will term

00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:14.259
 the religion of Zoroastrianism,

00:29:14.659 --> 00:29:16.279
 which they seem to have had

00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:18.420
 some early form of.

00:29:18.420 --> 00:29:19.500
 It's not the same

00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:20.480
 as what we see in later

00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:21.300
 Zoroastrianism.

00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:22.180
 That's a whole other issue.

00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.560
 But in Zoroastrianism,

00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:28.440
 there's sort of a duality

00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:31.060
 between the good god,

00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:32.060
 Ahura Mazda,

00:29:32.320 --> 00:29:33.900
 and the evil god,

00:29:34.019 --> 00:29:34.400
 Ahreman,

00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.160
 who is sort of the,

00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.420
 known for lying

00:29:41.180 --> 00:29:41.960
 and deception,

00:29:42.560 --> 00:29:43.420
 whereas Ahura Mazda

00:29:43.420 --> 00:29:44.480
 is known with truth

00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:45.519
 and truth saying.

00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:48.400
 So, actually,

00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:49.420
 this inscription here,

00:29:49.779 --> 00:29:50.779
 this Persian inscription,

00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:53.539
 it starts off

00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:55.539
 referring to,

00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:56.339
 right here,

00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:57.220
 Ahura Mazda,

00:29:58.160 --> 00:29:58.900
 right there.

00:30:00.259 --> 00:30:00.980
 So this is,

00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:01.839
 oops,

00:30:02.120 --> 00:30:02.900
 so we know that they're

00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:04.559
 at least worshipping

00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:05.500
 that god at that time.

00:30:05.539 --> 00:30:06.420
 Whether that looks the same

00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:07.420
 as later Zoroastrianism

00:30:07.420 --> 00:30:07.980
 is a big question.

00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:08.279
 But,

00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:10.740
 these references

00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:11.660
 to the lie

00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:13.059
 seem to be

00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:14.279
 also part of that

00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:16.400
 religious and

00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:17.559
 royal ideology.

00:30:18.940 --> 00:30:19.259
 Yeah, Tom?

00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:20.079
 What roughly,

00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:21.019
 what is that description?

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.120
 That is,

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.079
 I don't remember

00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:26.120
 which king this is.

00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:28.200
 I want to say

00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:29.380
 that might be Xerxes.

00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:30.720
 Okay.

00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:31.440
 So,

00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:32.360
 yeah.

00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:33.360
 Like 400s,

00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:34.160
 500s?

00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:34.420
 Yeah,

00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:35.480
 400s.

00:30:35.579 --> 00:30:35.980
 Yeah.

00:30:35.980 --> 00:30:38.420
 I'm going to ask you

00:30:38.420 --> 00:30:39.519
 a really crazy question.

00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:40.539
 This looks like

00:30:40.539 --> 00:30:41.920
 a different material

00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:43.180
 that it's made out of

00:30:43.180 --> 00:30:44.019
 than a lot of

00:30:44.019 --> 00:30:45.559
 the other clay pieces.

00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:46.579
 Is this indeed

00:30:46.579 --> 00:30:47.440
 a different material?

00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:48.019
 Yes.

00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:48.940
 So this is stone.

00:30:49.220 --> 00:30:49.519
 Okay.

00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:49.860
 Yeah.

00:30:50.180 --> 00:30:51.299
 So we sometimes get

00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:52.380
 cuneiform carved

00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:53.220
 really, really nice

00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:53.720
 on stone

00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:55.660
 and we sometimes get it

00:30:55.660 --> 00:30:57.819
 impressed on

00:30:57.819 --> 00:30:58.579
 clay tablets.

00:30:59.019 --> 00:30:59.140
 Yeah.

00:30:59.360 --> 00:31:00.400
 So it'll look very different

00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:01.120
 in those two media.

00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:01.539
 Right.

00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:02.640
 Even though they,

00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:04.140
 if you see them

00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:04.579
 out and about,

00:31:04.660 --> 00:31:04.960
 you're like,

00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:06.319
 it's hard to tell

00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:07.000
 sometimes which is which

00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:07.600
 unless you get

00:31:07.600 --> 00:31:08.360
 a good look at it.

00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:11.079
 But yes,

00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:11.620
 they are different.

00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:15.600
 That one's also

00:31:15.600 --> 00:31:16.120
 stone there.

00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:16.600
 Yeah.

00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:16.700
 Yeah.

00:31:16.700 --> 00:31:17.319
 I have a question.

00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:19.140
 In any of the

00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:19.900
 Persian literature,

00:31:20.100 --> 00:31:20.480
 was there any

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:21.559
 acknowledgement of

00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:22.660
 there's this

00:31:22.660 --> 00:31:24.819
 small nation

00:31:24.819 --> 00:31:26.180
 of Israel

00:31:26.180 --> 00:31:26.620
 and Judah

00:31:26.620 --> 00:31:27.980
 but we heard

00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:28.740
 there's

00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:29.180
 some

00:31:29.180 --> 00:31:30.200
 thing that

00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:31.539
 this god of theirs

00:31:31.539 --> 00:31:32.259
 did in Egypt

00:31:32.259 --> 00:31:33.059
 back in the

00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:34.319
 long time ago

00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:34.819
 at the exit.

00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:35.460
 because I was

00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:35.860
 reading the

00:31:35.860 --> 00:31:36.519
 Exodus this past

00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:36.759
 week.

00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:37.700
 I'm doing this

00:31:37.700 --> 00:31:38.140
 so all the

00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:38.980
 nations will

00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:39.539
 know that I

00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:39.980
 am the Lord.

00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:40.740
 And I'm just

00:31:40.740 --> 00:31:41.279
 wondering if

00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:41.799
 Persians,

00:31:42.819 --> 00:31:43.380
 was there any

00:31:43.380 --> 00:31:44.039
 sort of echo

00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:44.620
 of that

00:31:44.620 --> 00:31:45.700
 even during

00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:46.279
 this time

00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:47.960
 in 500 BC?

00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:49.160
 not that we

00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:49.900
 know of.

00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:50.640
 One of the

00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.200
 tricky things

00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.140
 for Persian

00:31:53.140 --> 00:31:53.819
 history is

00:31:53.819 --> 00:31:54.220
 that we

00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:55.660
 have some

00:31:55.660 --> 00:31:55.920
 of their

00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:56.720
 royal inscriptions

00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:58.519
 where they're

00:31:58.519 --> 00:31:58.960
 not going to

00:31:58.960 --> 00:31:59.880
 talk about

00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:00.559
 how cool

00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:00.960
 they think

00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:01.400
 other groups

00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:01.519
 are.

00:32:01.579 --> 00:32:01.740
 They're going

00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:01.980
 to talk about

00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:02.259
 how cool

00:32:02.259 --> 00:32:02.539
 they think

00:32:02.539 --> 00:32:03.079
 they are.

00:32:04.360 --> 00:32:05.120
 We don't

00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:05.860
 have a lot

00:32:05.860 --> 00:32:06.059
 of their

00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:06.860
 specific annals.

00:32:07.059 --> 00:32:07.900
 We have

00:32:07.900 --> 00:32:08.380
 some

00:32:08.380 --> 00:32:08.880
 administrative

00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:09.539
 documents.

00:32:09.539 --> 00:32:11.139
 One of the

00:32:11.139 --> 00:32:11.579
 tricky things

00:32:11.579 --> 00:32:13.079
 is as they

00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:13.619
 start writing

00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:13.960
 more in

00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:14.539
 Aramaic,

00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:17.639
 so whereas

00:32:17.639 --> 00:32:20.740
 Akkadian,

00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:21.899
 so Babylonian

00:32:21.899 --> 00:32:22.359
 Akkadian,

00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:25.159
 and Elamite

00:32:25.159 --> 00:32:25.960
 were written

00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:26.720
 with cuneiform

00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:27.500
 on clay,

00:32:28.579 --> 00:32:29.079
 and so it

00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:29.379
 was, well,

00:32:29.399 --> 00:32:29.799
 Old Persian

00:32:29.799 --> 00:32:31.000
 was also a

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:31.680
 cuneiform script.

00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:34.579
 Aramaic was

00:32:34.579 --> 00:32:34.859
 not.

00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:35.799
 Aramaic was

00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:36.480
 mostly written

00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.099
 on papyrus

00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:38.619
 or parchment,

00:32:38.619 --> 00:32:39.839
 and so

00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:40.479
 most of the

00:32:40.479 --> 00:32:40.599
 time,

00:32:40.639 --> 00:32:41.019
 unless it's

00:32:41.019 --> 00:32:41.399
 stored in

00:32:41.399 --> 00:32:42.079
 a very dry

00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:42.599
 climate and

00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:42.819
 we get

00:32:42.819 --> 00:32:43.459
 very lucky,

00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:44.739
 it mostly

00:32:44.739 --> 00:32:45.359
 disintegrates.

00:32:46.439 --> 00:32:46.919
 So if they

00:32:46.919 --> 00:32:47.179
 would have

00:32:47.179 --> 00:32:47.819
 had it in

00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:48.500
 their records

00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:48.919
 or their

00:32:48.919 --> 00:32:49.419
 annals or

00:32:49.419 --> 00:32:49.639
 in their

00:32:49.639 --> 00:32:50.039
 literature,

00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:54.000
 probably we

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:54.299
 don't really

00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:54.659
 have it.

00:32:54.979 --> 00:32:55.579
 There's very,

00:32:55.699 --> 00:32:56.779
 very little of

00:32:56.779 --> 00:32:57.199
 that material

00:32:57.199 --> 00:32:57.819
 that we have

00:32:57.819 --> 00:32:59.259
 available to

00:32:59.259 --> 00:32:59.839
 us right now,

00:32:59.939 --> 00:33:00.639
 just with the

00:33:00.639 --> 00:33:01.379
 sort of accidents

00:33:01.379 --> 00:33:01.899
 of history.

00:33:02.399 --> 00:33:02.779
 So it would

00:33:02.779 --> 00:33:03.079
 be really

00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:03.659
 interesting to

00:33:03.659 --> 00:33:04.019
 see if they

00:33:04.019 --> 00:33:04.459
 had anything

00:33:04.459 --> 00:33:04.979
 like that,

00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:06.919
 but most of

00:33:06.919 --> 00:33:08.359
 what we have

00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:09.519
 from the

00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:11.119
 Persians are

00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:11.519
 these kind of

00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.039
 royal descriptions

00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:12.799
 where it's

00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:13.439
 very much the

00:33:13.439 --> 00:33:14.019
 king talking

00:33:14.019 --> 00:33:14.799
 about himself

00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.899
 and how

00:33:16.899 --> 00:33:17.439
 awesome he

00:33:17.439 --> 00:33:18.299
 is and

00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:19.919
 all of that.

00:33:24.579 --> 00:33:25.179
 Let's see,

00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:25.679
 anything else I was

00:33:25.679 --> 00:33:25.899
 going to say

00:33:25.899 --> 00:33:26.039
 there?

00:33:26.139 --> 00:33:26.599
 No, okay.

00:33:26.979 --> 00:33:27.599
 So let's move

00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.000
 on to biblical

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:30.539
 connections.

00:33:33.139 --> 00:33:33.779
 Oh, sorry,

00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:34.240
 one more thing I

00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:35.079
 wanted to mention

00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:35.319
 here.

00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:36.279
 So I mentioned

00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:37.500
 that Alexander

00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:38.460
 was sort of

00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:38.899
 thought of as,

00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:39.220
 you know,

00:33:39.339 --> 00:33:40.079
 Alexander the

00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:41.359
 Great comes in,

00:33:41.439 --> 00:33:41.919
 brings Greek

00:33:41.919 --> 00:33:42.480
 culture with

00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:43.259
 him, but

00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:43.500
 it's still

00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:43.960
 sort of thought

00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:44.339
 of as kind

00:33:44.339 --> 00:33:44.980
 of the last

00:33:44.980 --> 00:33:45.799
 Persian empire

00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:46.279
 because he

00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:46.919
 rules over

00:33:46.919 --> 00:33:49.220
 that whole

00:33:49.220 --> 00:33:51.000
 empire,

00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:52.339
 plus Greece

00:33:52.339 --> 00:33:52.960
 and Macedonia

00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:53.359
 as well.

00:33:54.399 --> 00:33:55.419
 When he

00:33:55.419 --> 00:33:57.079
 dies,

00:33:58.079 --> 00:33:58.919
 there's a

00:33:58.919 --> 00:33:59.839
 whole succession

00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:00.419
 crisis,

00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:01.740
 and it's

00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:04.019
 honestly more

00:34:04.019 --> 00:34:04.639
 complicated than

00:34:04.639 --> 00:34:05.159
 Game of Thrones.

00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.240
 I have a lot

00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:07.779
 of difficulty

00:34:07.779 --> 00:34:09.019
 being able to

00:34:09.019 --> 00:34:09.920
 understand,

00:34:10.220 --> 00:34:10.539
 much less

00:34:10.539 --> 00:34:10.980
 articulate,

00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:12.300
 what happens

00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:12.960
 after Alexander

00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:13.280
 dies.

00:34:13.740 --> 00:34:14.340
 But for a

00:34:14.340 --> 00:34:14.740
 little bit,

00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:15.860
 his half-brother

00:34:15.860 --> 00:34:17.860
 is sort of

00:34:17.860 --> 00:34:19.200
 the king,

00:34:19.420 --> 00:34:20.019
 but ruled over

00:34:20.019 --> 00:34:20.800
 by a regent

00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:21.900
 because his

00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:22.880
 half-brother

00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:23.740
 may have had

00:34:23.740 --> 00:34:24.139
 some mental

00:34:24.139 --> 00:34:24.680
 difficulties.

00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:26.920
 And his

00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:27.380
 half-brother's

00:34:27.380 --> 00:34:28.099
 name was

00:34:28.099 --> 00:34:28.480
 Philip.

00:34:29.059 --> 00:34:29.599
 Well, actually,

00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:30.619
 his half-brother

00:34:30.619 --> 00:34:31.460
 changed his name

00:34:31.460 --> 00:34:31.860
 to Philip

00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:32.599
 when he became

00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:32.960
 king.

00:34:33.740 --> 00:34:34.260
 Again, like I

00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:34.519
 said, it's

00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:34.920
 complicated.

00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:35.559
 But,

00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.259
 earlier this

00:34:37.259 --> 00:34:37.579
 week, I

00:34:37.579 --> 00:34:37.879
 was in the

00:34:37.879 --> 00:34:38.199
 collection,

00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:39.079
 and I was

00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:39.420
 messing around

00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:39.659
 with some

00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:40.019
 tablets,

00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:41.239
 the collection

00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:41.739
 here that we

00:34:41.739 --> 00:34:42.239
 have at Yale,

00:34:43.299 --> 00:34:43.579
 and I was

00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:43.839
 messing around

00:34:43.839 --> 00:34:44.059
 with some

00:34:44.059 --> 00:34:44.299
 tablets,

00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:44.739
 and I knew

00:34:44.739 --> 00:34:45.039
 that this

00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:46.059
 was, based

00:34:46.059 --> 00:34:46.579
 on the style

00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:46.859
 of this

00:34:46.859 --> 00:34:47.440
 fragment,

00:34:48.019 --> 00:34:48.559
 that it

00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:50.019
 was from

00:34:50.019 --> 00:34:50.500
 that sort

00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:51.039
 of early

00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:51.599
 Hellenistic

00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:52.019
 period.

00:34:52.339 --> 00:34:52.579
 Because you

00:34:52.579 --> 00:34:52.960
 still have

00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:53.619
 in Babylonia,

00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:54.159
 there's still

00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:55.139
 these temple

00:34:55.139 --> 00:34:55.799
 communities,

00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:56.819
 the temple

00:34:56.819 --> 00:34:57.199
 estates are

00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:57.739
 still using

00:34:57.739 --> 00:34:58.739
 cuneiform for

00:34:58.739 --> 00:34:59.339
 some things,

00:34:59.399 --> 00:34:59.699
 even though

00:34:59.699 --> 00:35:00.279
 everybody around

00:35:00.279 --> 00:35:00.579
 them is

00:35:00.579 --> 00:35:01.199
 starting to use

00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:01.859
 Aramaic and

00:35:01.859 --> 00:35:02.319
 then eventually

00:35:02.319 --> 00:35:02.639
 Greek.

00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:06.319
 So I

00:35:06.319 --> 00:35:06.539
 knew that

00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:06.879
 this was

00:35:06.879 --> 00:35:07.460
 from that

00:35:07.460 --> 00:35:07.799
 period,

00:35:08.799 --> 00:35:09.779
 but I

00:35:09.779 --> 00:35:10.500
 was, and

00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:11.079
 I knew that

00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:11.759
 this was a

00:35:11.759 --> 00:35:12.259
 date formula

00:35:12.259 --> 00:35:13.159
 here, but I

00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:13.619
 was trying to

00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:13.940
 figure out what

00:35:13.940 --> 00:35:14.299
 the king's

00:35:14.299 --> 00:35:14.900
 name was, and

00:35:14.900 --> 00:35:15.239
 I was having

00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:15.679
 trouble reading

00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:15.960
 it.

00:35:16.759 --> 00:35:17.480
 And then I

00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:18.139
 realized that

00:35:18.139 --> 00:35:18.819
 it was,

00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:21.660
 read, so this

00:35:21.660 --> 00:35:22.360
 is year seven

00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:23.380
 of Mr.

00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:26.460
 Pilipsu, which

00:35:26.460 --> 00:35:27.059
 is how the

00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:27.880
 Babylonians wrote

00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:28.420
 Philip,

00:35:29.019 --> 00:35:29.660
 Pilipsu.

00:35:31.300 --> 00:35:31.960
 And so that's,

00:35:32.059 --> 00:35:32.660
 and year seven

00:35:32.660 --> 00:35:33.320
 was the last

00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:34.820
 year before

00:35:34.820 --> 00:35:36.300
 Philip died and

00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:36.860
 then everything

00:35:36.860 --> 00:35:37.340
 just kind of

00:35:37.340 --> 00:35:37.700
 fell apart.

00:35:38.260 --> 00:35:39.180
 So I thought

00:35:39.180 --> 00:35:39.640
 that was really

00:35:39.640 --> 00:35:39.860
 cool.

00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:40.100
 I was like,

00:35:40.160 --> 00:35:40.660
 oh, perfect,

00:35:40.780 --> 00:35:41.260
 this is right

00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:41.800
 at the end of

00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:42.320
 the time I'm

00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:42.820
 about to talk

00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:43.480
 about on Sunday.

00:35:43.720 --> 00:35:44.160
 I got very

00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:44.480
 excited.

00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:46.940
 So, because I'm

00:35:46.940 --> 00:35:47.440
 a nerd and

00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:49.019
 little impressed

00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:49.800
 triangles on

00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:50.639
 clay will get

00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:51.559
 me, you know,

00:35:51.740 --> 00:35:53.639
 very excited and

00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:54.700
 giddy and, yeah.

00:35:54.940 --> 00:35:56.440
 Anyway, like I

00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:57.119
 said, I'm a

00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:57.460
 little bit of a

00:35:57.460 --> 00:35:57.599
 dork.

00:35:59.860 --> 00:36:00.800
 So, as I said

00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:01.500
 before, and we

00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:01.840
 talked about it a

00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:03.220
 little bit, when

00:36:03.220 --> 00:36:04.059
 Cyrus takes control

00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:05.019
 of Babylonia, he

00:36:05.019 --> 00:36:05.840
 allows the exiled

00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:06.820
 Judeans to return

00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:07.440
 to their homeland,

00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:08.619
 and this might

00:36:08.619 --> 00:36:09.360
 have been part of

00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:09.840
 sort of his

00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.920
 larger sort of

00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:12.059
 PR campaign to

00:36:12.059 --> 00:36:12.539
 sort of style

00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:13.420
 himself as like,

00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:15.000
 hey, I'm the

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:15.940
 benevolent ruler.

00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:17.380
 Everybody else

00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:17.780
 has just been

00:36:17.780 --> 00:36:18.800
 forcing you guys

00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:19.700
 to do stuff.

00:36:20.220 --> 00:36:21.019
 I'm not like

00:36:21.019 --> 00:36:21.380
 that.

00:36:21.500 --> 00:36:22.220
 I'm the nice

00:36:22.220 --> 00:36:23.579
 guy, but you

00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:24.099
 still better pay

00:36:24.099 --> 00:36:24.720
 your taxes or

00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:25.220
 I'll get really

00:36:25.220 --> 00:36:25.660
 upset.

00:36:26.220 --> 00:36:27.160
 You know, he

00:36:27.160 --> 00:36:27.680
 had that kind

00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:29.079
 of vibe to

00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:30.240
 some of his

00:36:30.240 --> 00:36:33.019
 PR, right?

00:36:33.099 --> 00:36:33.680
 So, his

00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:34.200
 allowing the

00:36:34.200 --> 00:36:34.640
 Judeans to

00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:35.940
 return is part

00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:36.420
 of this PR

00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:38.539
 campaign to

00:36:38.539 --> 00:36:39.099
 sort of get,

00:36:39.240 --> 00:36:39.920
 again, more

00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:41.960
 various groups

00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:43.380
 and sort of

00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:45.500
 demographic, right?

00:36:45.500 --> 00:36:45.940
 He almost seems

00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:46.860
 very modern in

00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:47.280
 the sense he's

00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:47.820
 sort of thinking

00:36:47.820 --> 00:36:48.240
 about his

00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:49.000
 demographics that

00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:49.400
 he has in

00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:50.060
 his empire and

00:36:50.060 --> 00:36:50.460
 like, what do

00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:50.960
 I need to do

00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:51.400
 to get this

00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:52.019
 demographic on

00:36:52.019 --> 00:36:53.200
 my side, right?

00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:54.500
 So, he allows

00:36:54.500 --> 00:36:55.640
 Judean exiles to

00:36:55.640 --> 00:36:56.300
 return to their

00:36:56.300 --> 00:36:56.700
 homeland.

00:36:58.560 --> 00:36:59.240
 There's a lot of

00:36:59.240 --> 00:37:00.500
 other like pro-Cyrus

00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:01.540
 Babylonian texts

00:37:01.540 --> 00:37:02.280
 that talk about

00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:03.320
 similar things where

00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:03.880
 they'll say, oh,

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:04.980
 Nabonidus did all

00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:05.620
 these horrible

00:37:05.620 --> 00:37:06.760
 things and he,

00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:07.980
 you know, didn't

00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:08.519
 support these

00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:09.200
 temples and he

00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:09.780
 moved all these

00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:10.800
 gods, he moved

00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:11.420
 all their statues

00:37:11.420 --> 00:37:12.300
 around, but Cyrus

00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:13.060
 put them all back

00:37:13.060 --> 00:37:13.660
 in their temples,

00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:15.299
 right?

00:37:15.379 --> 00:37:16.719
 So, this is

00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:17.319
 something that is

00:37:17.319 --> 00:37:18.219
 a wider part of

00:37:18.219 --> 00:37:20.559
 his ideology.

00:37:23.059 --> 00:37:24.899
 And the Judeans

00:37:24.899 --> 00:37:27.079
 who return, right,

00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:27.940
 so they return to

00:37:27.940 --> 00:37:29.779
 this, the name of

00:37:29.779 --> 00:37:30.559
 the Persian province

00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:31.399
 was Yehud, which

00:37:31.399 --> 00:37:32.279
 basically just means

00:37:32.279 --> 00:37:32.920
 Judah, right?

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:34.239
 So, they return

00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:36.719
 here and they're

00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:37.879
 sort of supported

00:37:37.879 --> 00:37:38.739
 and patronized by

00:37:38.739 --> 00:37:39.460
 later, not just

00:37:39.460 --> 00:37:40.440
 Cyrus, but later

00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:42.039
 Persian kings as

00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:42.360
 well.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:43.700
 And some of the

00:37:43.700 --> 00:37:44.559
 thought with that,

00:37:45.200 --> 00:37:45.780
 again, we don't

00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:46.400
 know how much of

00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:47.059
 it is like they

00:37:47.059 --> 00:37:47.519
 were like, oh my

00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:48.000
 goodness, they have

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:48.519
 a really great

00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:49.220
 god, that's cool.

00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:50.300
 It may have been

00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:50.559
 that.

00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:51.760
 Some of it,

00:37:51.820 --> 00:37:52.820
 though, is sort

00:37:52.820 --> 00:37:54.019
 of probably

00:37:54.019 --> 00:37:54.820
 political in the

00:37:54.820 --> 00:37:55.460
 sense that they

00:37:55.460 --> 00:37:57.420
 want a really

00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:02.880
 good, they want

00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:03.440
 people they know

00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:04.159
 they can trust

00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:05.599
 here on that

00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:06.460
 land bridge that

00:38:06.460 --> 00:38:07.760
 connects to their

00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:08.880
 often rebellious

00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:09.840
 province in Egypt.

00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:11.519
 They want to

00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:12.059
 make sure that,

00:38:12.139 --> 00:38:13.220
 okay, if Egypt

00:38:13.220 --> 00:38:13.840
 rebels and we

00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:14.340
 have to send an

00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:15.480
 army there, the

00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:16.039
 people on the

00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:16.599
 way are going to

00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:17.179
 help us, they're

00:38:17.179 --> 00:38:17.659
 going to support

00:38:17.659 --> 00:38:18.200
 us, they're not

00:38:18.200 --> 00:38:19.139
 going to harass

00:38:19.139 --> 00:38:20.380
 our supply lines,

00:38:20.860 --> 00:38:21.519
 all this stuff.

00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:23.200
 So, yeah, if they

00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:23.659
 want to build a

00:38:23.659 --> 00:38:24.119
 temple to their

00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:24.920
 god, sure, yeah,

00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:27.599
 that's worth the

00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:28.800
 overhead of having

00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:29.340
 to pay for their

00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:30.220
 temple to make

00:38:30.220 --> 00:38:30.900
 sure that we have

00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:33.059
 loyal subjects

00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:33.340
 there.

00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:46.420
 So, Ezra and

00:38:46.420 --> 00:38:47.400
 Nehemiah is also,

00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:48.300
 if you're looking

00:38:48.300 --> 00:38:49.780
 for Persian

00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:51.000
 connections in the

00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:51.800
 Bible, Ezra and

00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:52.440
 Nehemiah is a great

00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:53.539
 place to look because

00:38:53.539 --> 00:38:56.099
 that's when you get

00:38:56.099 --> 00:38:57.820
 the history of these

00:38:57.820 --> 00:38:59.039
 returning exiles.

00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:07.000
 So, both, actually, I

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:07.920
 don't know if Ezra was,

00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:09.360
 I can't remember if

00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:10.159
 Ezra was commissioned

00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:11.179
 by the Persians or

00:39:11.179 --> 00:39:11.320
 not.

00:39:11.619 --> 00:39:13.139
 Nehemiah was actually a

00:39:13.139 --> 00:39:14.420
 Persian appointee.

00:39:14.420 --> 00:39:17.320
 He seems to have been

00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:18.780
 in the royal court of

00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:20.840
 Artaxerxes I, who is

00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:23.079
 the first king in this

00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:24.240
 status quo period.

00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:30.780
 And he, if you read

00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:31.460
 through, like, Nehemiah

00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:32.599
 1 and 2, I think,

00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.400
 Artaxerxes ends up

00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:39.119
 appointing Nehemiah as a

00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:40.000
 governor of the

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:41.700
 province there.

00:39:41.700 --> 00:39:43.440
 So, he's very much

00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:48.440
 a part of the Persian

00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:51.559
 imperial apparatus.

00:39:52.579 --> 00:39:53.340
 But, again, so this

00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:56.460
 restoration happens, and

00:39:56.460 --> 00:39:57.099
 part of the reason it's

00:39:57.099 --> 00:39:58.079
 able to happen and

00:39:58.079 --> 00:39:59.460
 that the Judeans are

00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:00.320
 sort of starting to

00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:02.059
 sort of develop their

00:40:02.059 --> 00:40:04.440
 local identity again

00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:06.300
 within that region is

00:40:06.300 --> 00:40:07.460
 partly because they

00:40:07.460 --> 00:40:09.440
 have this relative

00:40:10.220 --> 00:40:11.440
 independence from the

00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:13.340
 Persian emperor.

00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:16.639
 where it's not quite as

00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:18.340
 tied in as it was with

00:40:18.340 --> 00:40:19.099
 the Assyrians and the

00:40:19.099 --> 00:40:20.099
 Babylonians, who were a

00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:21.619
 lot more sort of direct

00:40:21.619 --> 00:40:22.139
 control.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:23.940
 But because the Persians

00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:24.940
 allowed for a little bit

00:40:24.940 --> 00:40:28.079
 more of autonomy, it

00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:29.440
 allows for this sort of

00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:30.579
 restoration period to

00:40:30.579 --> 00:40:30.940
 happen.

00:40:30.940 --> 00:40:36.380
 what I was going to say on

00:40:36.380 --> 00:40:36.599
 that.

00:40:38.200 --> 00:40:38.800
 I think that's it.

00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:42.260
 We get Darius showing up

00:40:42.260 --> 00:40:43.039
 in the book of Daniel.

00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:47.220
 Xerxes famously is the

00:40:47.220 --> 00:40:48.159
 king that shows up in the

00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:48.679
 book of Esther.

00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:49.780
 Right?

00:40:49.900 --> 00:40:51.440
 So, unfortunately, again,

00:40:51.500 --> 00:40:53.320
 we don't have enough of his

00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:55.599
 records to know, like, oh,

00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:58.099
 yes, and then today my

00:40:58.099 --> 00:41:01.279
 courtier, Haman, turns out

00:41:01.279 --> 00:41:02.759
 that he was a jerk and I

00:41:02.759 --> 00:41:03.279
 had him killed.

00:41:04.299 --> 00:41:05.400
 But I really like my wife.

00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:05.880
 She's cool.

00:41:06.139 --> 00:41:06.739
 You know, we don't have

00:41:06.739 --> 00:41:07.380
 that, unfortunately.

00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:10.799
 We do get, we know a

00:41:10.799 --> 00:41:11.880
 little bit more about some

00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:16.420
 of his other, actually, we

00:41:16.420 --> 00:41:16.980
 know about some of his

00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:18.239
 campaigns into Greece, for

00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:19.259
 example, because the Greeks

00:41:19.259 --> 00:41:20.179
 talk about it because they

00:41:20.179 --> 00:41:21.059
 were very proud of the fact

00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:21.900
 that he didn't succeed.

00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:24.099
 There was a movie about it

00:41:24.099 --> 00:41:24.840
 a number of years ago.

00:41:25.220 --> 00:41:26.099
 Not very historically

00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:29.440
 accurate, but when I was in

00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:30.260
 high school, it got a bunch

00:41:30.260 --> 00:41:32.260
 of us our age to actually

00:41:32.260 --> 00:41:33.260
 care about ancient history.

00:41:33.460 --> 00:41:34.519
 So that was, I guess, a

00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:35.000
 positive.

00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:41.760
 We know that Xerxes was,

00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:42.660
 Xerxes was ultimately

00:41:42.660 --> 00:41:45.940
 assassinated in some sort of

00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:46.639
 palace coup.

00:41:50.160 --> 00:41:50.980
 I don't remember what I was

00:41:50.980 --> 00:41:51.360
 going with that.

00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:51.880
 Anyway.

00:41:53.680 --> 00:41:55.680
 And then within the prophets,

00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:56.640
 so most of the prophetic

00:41:56.640 --> 00:41:59.400
 corpus takes place before the

00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:01.820
 exile or right up to

00:42:01.820 --> 00:42:02.519
 enduring, right?

00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:03.900
 So Jeremiah and Ezekiel are

00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:05.820
 like kind of at the very

00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.660
 beginning of the exile.

00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:09.480
 But there's some of it that

00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:10.180
 takes place after.

00:42:10.700 --> 00:42:13.200
 So Haggai and Zechariah, for

00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:16.460
 example, are, their prophetic

00:42:16.460 --> 00:42:17.960
 careers are taking place during

00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:19.300
 this early restoration period.

00:42:19.300 --> 00:42:21.600
 They talk about sort of the

00:42:21.600 --> 00:42:24.620
 need to build, you know,

00:42:24.680 --> 00:42:26.420
 Haggai especially talks about

00:42:26.420 --> 00:42:27.800
 the importance of rebuilding

00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:28.360
 the temple.

00:42:28.660 --> 00:42:32.120
 Zechariah talks about, delivers

00:42:32.120 --> 00:42:34.580
 oracles, talking about the

00:42:34.580 --> 00:42:35.900
 current high priest and the

00:42:35.900 --> 00:42:37.900
 current governor appointee,

00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:40.240
 Zerubbabel, who was Judean

00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:43.220
 exile, and sort of how God had

00:42:43.220 --> 00:42:44.440
 appointed them to sort of reign

00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:46.880
 over this period of restoration.

00:42:48.820 --> 00:42:50.380
 We get a few other post-exilic

00:42:50.380 --> 00:42:51.659
 prophets, but those are sort of

00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:52.480
 the two that I think are the

00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.019
 most relevant here.

00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:56.920
 Okay.

00:42:56.920 --> 00:42:59.480
 So I think now we'll move into

00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:00.440
 some more questions.

00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:03.240
 Tom, you have a question?

00:43:03.240 --> 00:43:05.039
 So forgive me if this is such a

00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.200
 huge tangent, but I want to ask

00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:08.159
 about Zoroastrianism.

00:43:09.619 --> 00:43:11.220
 Because most of the religious

00:43:11.220 --> 00:43:13.220
 backgrounds in the Bible are these

00:43:13.220 --> 00:43:14.900
 polytheistic religions that are

00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:17.380
 localized and they all kind of will

00:43:17.380 --> 00:43:18.860
 look to one another and be like,

00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:20.800
 oh, we worship similar gods or we'll

00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:22.019
 adopt our gods, et cetera, et cetera.

00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:24.659
 Zoroastrianism, though, is at least

00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:26.519
 later forms of the religion.

00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:28.639
 It's different because they've got

00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:31.500
 this kind of doctrinal corpus of

00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:32.799
 there's this one God you worship,

00:43:33.019 --> 00:43:34.179
 there's this negative God.

00:43:34.699 --> 00:43:37.299
 Anyway, but I've read that the,

00:43:37.759 --> 00:43:38.859
 you know, you'll hear these stories

00:43:38.859 --> 00:43:40.139
 of Zoroaster, the founder of

00:43:40.139 --> 00:43:41.859
 Zoroastrianism from like 3000 BC,

00:43:42.059 --> 00:43:43.639
 but then when you look at the

00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:46.159
 actual evidence for that, I've heard

00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:47.359
 similar things that you've alluded

00:43:47.359 --> 00:43:49.579
 to that we actually have, I've heard

00:43:49.579 --> 00:43:52.679
 like almost nothing before like

00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:56.019
 700 AD or 500 AD, like very little

00:43:56.019 --> 00:43:58.159
 about actual Zoroastrian belief.

00:43:58.279 --> 00:44:00.019
 And I was wondering if you, like I

00:44:00.019 --> 00:44:01.219
 know it never comes up in the Bible.

00:44:01.339 --> 00:44:02.859
 There's no word for Zoroastrianism

00:44:02.859 --> 00:44:03.980
 in the Bible as far as I'm aware.

00:44:04.139 --> 00:44:04.319
 Right.

00:44:04.399 --> 00:44:05.219
 But I was wondering if you could,

00:44:06.219 --> 00:44:06.480
 I don't know.

00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.119
 Yeah, so Zoroastrianism, it's super

00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:09.539
 fascinating.

00:44:09.619 --> 00:44:10.419
 If you ever get a chance to read

00:44:10.419 --> 00:44:11.739
 about Zoroastrianism, it's one of

00:44:11.739 --> 00:44:13.000
 these like, it's one of these

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:14.879
 Near Eastern religions that I find

00:44:14.879 --> 00:44:15.759
 absolutely fascinating.

00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:17.039
 Manichaeism, we talked about

00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:17.679
 Manichaeism before.

00:44:17.739 --> 00:44:18.359
 That's another one.

00:44:18.500 --> 00:44:19.259
 It's wild.

00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:24.160
 But Zoroastrianism is really

00:44:24.160 --> 00:44:25.000
 interesting to read about.

00:44:26.620 --> 00:44:28.060
 Part of the problem is, is that a

00:44:28.060 --> 00:44:29.560
 lot of the sources we have for what

00:44:29.560 --> 00:44:32.460
 that religion looked like are from,

00:44:33.180 --> 00:44:35.720
 in some cases, the Islamic period.

00:44:36.040 --> 00:44:36.260
 Yeah.

00:44:36.580 --> 00:44:36.760
 Right.

00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:40.380
 So at that point, there, we know that

00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:42.340
 in early, earlier forms of

00:44:42.340 --> 00:44:45.080
 Zoroastrianism, they had a number of

00:44:45.080 --> 00:44:45.640
 different deities.

00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.660
 They had, you know, Hora Mazda and

00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:49.139
 they had Ahriman and then they had

00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:50.259
 a bunch of other deities that were

00:44:50.259 --> 00:44:53.199
 kind of like sub-deities under that.

00:44:54.299 --> 00:44:56.719
 Like Anahita and Mithra and different

00:44:56.719 --> 00:44:57.359
 deities like that.

00:44:59.839 --> 00:45:01.639
 But they might have really sort of

00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:05.679
 emphasized their sort of, their

00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:08.019
 variation of monotheism, we could say,

00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:12.739
 after the Islamic conquests, when they

00:45:12.739 --> 00:45:14.399
 really needed to sort of present

00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:16.980
 themselves as sort of people of a book

00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:19.920
 so that they could sort of survive

00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:21.920
 under Islamic rule by simply paying a

00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:22.480
 tax, right?

00:45:22.539 --> 00:45:23.579
 Like just, just like Jews and

00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:24.160
 Christians, right?

00:45:24.240 --> 00:45:28.820
 So, so there was, so there was that.

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:30.320
 And so there's always a question of

00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:32.460
 like, well, how, how much did that

00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:34.160
 change the way that they even talked

00:45:34.160 --> 00:45:34.840
 about themselves?

00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:36.240
 Right.

00:45:36.300 --> 00:45:37.639
 So go back earlier.

00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:41.359
 The question of like, when did

00:45:41.359 --> 00:45:45.819
 Zoroaster or Zarathustra, this, this

00:45:45.819 --> 00:45:48.179
 prophet who supposedly started the,

00:45:48.420 --> 00:45:49.359
 even the fact that we call him a

00:45:49.359 --> 00:45:49.900
 prophet, right?

00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:54.440
 That, that might be part of this, this

00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:56.879
 campaign that they have to sort of make

00:45:56.879 --> 00:45:58.819
 themselves sound a little bit more like

00:45:58.819 --> 00:46:00.500
 Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:05.440
 But their, their founder, we'll call him

00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:06.259
 a founder, that's a little bit more

00:46:06.260 --> 00:46:06.780
 neutral, right?

00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:08.360
 Zarathustra.

00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.080
 Yeah.

00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:11.080
 Some historians were putting him like

00:46:11.080 --> 00:46:15.060
 back in like the early 2000s BC, but

00:46:15.060 --> 00:46:17.180
 they, their evidence for that was mostly

00:46:17.180 --> 00:46:22.920
 based on the fact that the, the

00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.260
 writings supposedly by Zarathustra were

00:46:27.260 --> 00:46:30.920
 called the Avestas, were composed in a

00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.460
 specific dialect that is only of Persian

00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:36.860
 that is only attested, or I should say an

00:46:36.860 --> 00:46:39.460
 Indo-Iranian language, that is only

00:46:39.460 --> 00:46:40.559
 attested in those documents.

00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:42.500
 And there were historical linguistic

00:46:42.500 --> 00:46:44.659
 arguments that they said, well, it's so

00:46:44.659 --> 00:46:46.940
 different from old Persian, for example,

00:46:46.940 --> 00:46:48.599
 that it has to be really, really, really

00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:48.960
 early.

00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:51.940
 And there were also arguments about like

00:46:51.940 --> 00:46:53.760
 migrations from Central Asia and stuff

00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.000
 like that.

00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.059
 Anyway, it's very complicated.

00:46:55.059 --> 00:46:59.259
 I think a lot of scholars nowadays will

00:46:59.259 --> 00:47:01.119
 either take sort of a hyper late view,

00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:02.900
 which says if there was a historical

00:47:02.900 --> 00:47:04.699
 Zarathustra, he was probably only a

00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:08.360
 generation or two before Cyrus, which is

00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:09.279
 probably a little extreme.

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:12.480
 Some people would say like, well, go back

00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:14.400
 a couple hundred years, but it's definitely

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:16.219
 not the early 2000s, right?

00:47:16.259 --> 00:47:17.480
 So you have that.

00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:21.059
 But there's definitely, there's a lot of

00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:25.139
 Zoroastrian concepts that very clearly show

00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:28.219
 up in these Persian royal inscriptions,

00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:31.559
 even to the point that like there's

00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:33.900
 certain phrases that sound like they might

00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:38.239
 be old Persian paraphrases or translations

00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:40.659
 of things from the Avestas, right?

00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:41.679
 So there's stuff like that.

00:47:42.619 --> 00:47:47.239
 There are some references in the Hebrew

00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:52.259
 Bible to things that might be sort of,

00:47:53.659 --> 00:47:57.719
 they don't directly reference Zoroastrianism,

00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:01.179
 but there's some things that might be sort

00:48:01.179 --> 00:48:01.919
 of riffing on it.

00:48:01.979 --> 00:48:10.419
 So there's a part, for example, in a description

00:48:10.419 --> 00:48:14.859
 of God in Isaiah, somewhere late Isaiah,

00:48:14.860 --> 00:48:21.500
 where it has a bit about, I can't remember

00:48:21.500 --> 00:48:23.920
 the exact line, but God who, describes God

00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:29.519
 as someone who creates, is it creates light

00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:32.920
 and, shoot, creates light and darkness.

00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:34.599
 Yeah.

00:48:35.820 --> 00:48:37.620
 Well-being and calamity.

00:48:37.860 --> 00:48:39.019
 Yes, that's what it is.

00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:39.500
 Thank you.

00:48:40.200 --> 00:48:40.400
 Yeah.

00:48:40.900 --> 00:48:41.340
 Thank you.

00:48:41.780 --> 00:48:42.000
 Good.

00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:43.340
 I'm glad somebody knew that because I

00:48:43.340 --> 00:48:43.900
 couldn't remember it.

00:48:43.900 --> 00:48:44.260
 Yeah.

00:48:44.860 --> 00:48:47.380
 I mean, it's a great passage, right?

00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:50.559
 So that's some of my favorite stuff in the

00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:51.900
 Hebrew Bible is that part of Isaiah.

00:48:53.660 --> 00:48:55.840
 But there's the thought that, I mean, again,

00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.579
 you can, this is, again, a little bit uncertain,

00:48:58.660 --> 00:49:00.240
 right, you can connect that to, like, oh,

00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:02.320
 Genesis 1 creates light and dark right there.

00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:02.960
 It's easy.

00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:05.900
 Some people have suggested that that may also

00:49:05.900 --> 00:49:16.760
 be a sort of a subtle kind of jab at the Zoroastrian god that, you know,

00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:18.760
 well, you have to have two deities.

00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:23.559
 We have one who's responsible for both light and dark.

00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:25.160
 We don't have a light god and a dark god.

00:49:25.420 --> 00:49:28.360
 We have one who does both of those things, right?

00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:32.220
 So there's certain things like that that might be sort of like little barbed jabs.

00:49:33.720 --> 00:49:36.620
 But with those kind of things, again, it's hard to know.

00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:41.720
 It's hard to know unless we have more context what they may or may not be arguing for.

00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.180
 So that's a very, very long answer to your question.

00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:44.920
 Thank you.

00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:45.599
 Yeah.

00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:45.680
 Yeah.

00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:51.220
 I'm just struck by the Persian Empire generally is that God is, like,

00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:55.599
 superintending history to fulfill his promise that he made to his people.

00:49:56.260 --> 00:50:02.539
 Like, during Moses' time, Moses prophesied to the people that you're going to go to exile

00:50:02.539 --> 00:50:04.480
 if you repent and turn to your God.

00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:09.200
 I'll have mercy on you and I'll gather you again from your exile.

00:50:09.200 --> 00:50:14.079
 And in Maya's time, like, that's happening and they're subsidizing the temple.

00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:20.279
 So it's like that actually the Persians are fulfilling the Lord's purposes

00:50:20.279 --> 00:50:24.719
 even though they have completely different reasons for doing it.

00:50:25.059 --> 00:50:26.099
 I think about Daniel.

00:50:26.539 --> 00:50:30.659
 He's prophesying about these kingdoms that are going to come, that are going to rise and fall.

00:50:31.259 --> 00:50:32.599
 I think the Persian might be in there.

00:50:33.779 --> 00:50:37.000
 But this everlasting kingdom is going to come.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:45.420
 So it's like the Lord is using these kings and political figures, like, as pawns in his hand.

00:50:45.659 --> 00:50:49.420
 He's, he's, they want geopolitical strategy.

00:50:49.420 --> 00:50:54.059
 But the Lord's purpose is, he's like, no, I'm building my kingdom through Persia.

00:50:54.519 --> 00:51:01.079
 So it's actually cool to see it from the other side, like, how Persians are kind of thinking about what they're doing.

00:51:01.539 --> 00:51:07.519
 Whereas the Bible kind of sees it from the Lord's sovereign prerogatives of how he's working on history.

00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:08.139
 Mm-hmm.

00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:13.559
 And that's where I think this is, one of the reasons this sort of historical study can be helpful is, you know,

00:51:13.579 --> 00:51:19.159
 it gets us to tease out a little bit some of this, the question of historical causality, right?

00:51:19.179 --> 00:51:21.039
 Like, why did a certain event happen?

00:51:21.259 --> 00:51:28.480
 And it's, it's often hard, it's often hard to pinpoint, like, one specific, you know, you can talk about, like, World War I, right?

00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:39.860
 Like, the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand caused World War I, but so did the fact, but so did the fact that there were these, like, crazy system of alliances in Europe at that time.

00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:55.820
 So did, you know, like, like, European imperial colonialism, because you had, you know, all these different imperial powers kind of eyeing each other up and trying to take out their rivals, you know, like, there's so many different things, right?

00:51:55.820 --> 00:51:57.840
 And those are all just political factors, right?

00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:04.180
 There's all kinds of different factors on so many different levels that go into causing a historical event.

00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:15.860
 And what we're getting oftentimes in the Bible is sort of the, the, I won't say the reaction, but sort of, you know, there's things going on around them.

00:52:16.200 --> 00:52:24.140
 And we're getting sort of the voices that are sort of saying, like, but actually, like, in response to that, instead of what you're seeing around you.

00:52:24.139 --> 00:52:28.339
 But we only get this, we're only getting the answer to the question.

00:52:28.779 --> 00:52:30.460
 Like, we need to, it's like Jeopardy, right?

00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:31.539
 You have to say the question.

00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:39.900
 So we're kind of going back and sort of seeing, like, what, what are the questions they're trying to answer in the biblical text, right?

00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:49.200
 So you get this again, you know, again, in, like, the Book of Kings, for example, which seems to have been written in the early exile.

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:58.180
 And you read the Book of Kings, and it is a history of Israel and Judah, but it's also a history that focuses very much on the question of why are we in exile right now?

00:52:58.179 --> 00:53:04.839
 You know, so it's, it's, it's always, history always has a purpose.

00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:06.940
 History writing always has a purpose to it, right?

00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:10.179
 There's history with a capital H, which is, like, stuff that happens in the past.

00:53:10.379 --> 00:53:14.719
 And then there's history as we, as we, we talk about it, and we write about it, and we do history.

00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:25.819
 And that's where we talk about causality, purposes of events, you know, all kinds of different issues like that.

00:53:25.819 --> 00:53:27.899
 That's where it gets really sort of interesting.

00:53:28.179 --> 00:53:34.739
 You know, it's like the type of history of the Bible is, it's not, it's a specific type of history of what God is doing in history.

00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:47.299
 It doesn't mean that there are other political, like, other political factors cause something to happen, but the lens in which the Bible writers are talking about, it's a very specific type of history.

00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:47.639
 Yeah.

00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:50.319
 That's why, too, yeah.

00:53:50.319 --> 00:53:52.259
 I keep those things, like, it's both ends.

00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:52.880
 Mm-hmm.

00:53:53.720 --> 00:54:07.120
 That's why, too, I often talk about sort of what I, what I do with, with this kind of thing is, it's not so much, you know, people will ask me if I'm trying to, to, is this apologetics?

00:54:07.240 --> 00:54:09.240
 Are you trying to prove the biblical text is accurate?

00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:15.000
 Or are you, you know, sometimes if I come to a conclusion people don't like, or they say, are you trying to disprove the Bible?

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.800
 And I'm like, well, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not trying to do either one.

00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:23.559
 What I'm trying to do is illuminate the Bible, get us to be able to read it better.

00:54:25.300 --> 00:54:31.400
 Because we can illuminate more of, like, what some of those, tease out some of those, those causes a little bit further.

00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:43.240
 And as you say, too, right, the, the, the type of history being given in the biblical text is very much a, a theological history or a spiritual history, right?

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:47.519
 So, again, do look at the book of Kings, we get Manasseh, right?

00:54:47.720 --> 00:54:49.440
 And Manasseh rules for 55 years.

00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:50.539
 That's a very long reign.

00:54:50.619 --> 00:54:54.700
 I think it's the longest reign of a Judean king, except maybe for David.

00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:56.320
 I'm not, I can't remember exactly now.

00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.200
 But, was it 33?

00:54:59.200 --> 00:55:01.320
 Okay, so he rules longer than David, right?

00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:08.420
 The only thing we hear about Manasseh is that he practiced a lot of idolatry.

00:55:10.059 --> 00:55:11.599
 That's the only thing we hear about him.

00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:13.039
 We don't hear about his foreign policy.

00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:18.340
 We don't hear about his sort of, did he, what did he do for taxation?

00:55:18.660 --> 00:55:22.180
 What did he do for, like, did he go on military campaigns?

00:55:22.460 --> 00:55:24.400
 Like, what, we don't hear about any of that.

00:55:24.720 --> 00:55:28.700
 And it's because of the kind of history that we're getting in the Bible.

00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:30.680
 Which doesn't mean it's bad, right?

00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:32.940
 This is, it's a very good kind of history.

00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:39.159
 But we also have to keep in mind that there is a lot more that helps us get a picture of what's going on there.

00:55:39.940 --> 00:55:42.519
 So, anyway, sorry, that was like a second lecture on top of all that.

00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:43.519
 Yeah.

00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:45.360
 Two separate things.

00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:54.880
 One, what you just said is why I find the old Hebrew classification of Joshua Judges, Samuel Hines, as the former prophets.

00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:55.880
 Yes.

00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:56.640
 Yes.

00:55:56.700 --> 00:56:01.539
 To think of them, not as simply this is what happened, but this is God's telling.

00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:02.440
 Yeah.

00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:04.180
 I agree.

00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:07.619
 This is part of the reason, part of the reason why I use the term Hebrew Bible.

00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:12.579
 It's part of the reason why I like their, and I don't know how familiar people are with this,

00:56:12.579 --> 00:56:23.699
 but there's, the ordering of the books that we have in the Old Testament is a little bit different than the way it's organized in this sort of more, probably more original Hebrew form.

00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:29.460
 They have a different ordering of the texts, and it means that the texts get classified a little bit differently.

00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:36.420
 So, what we call the history books, a large portion of those are called the former prophets in the Hebrew Bible, right?

00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:45.559
 So, it's that classification I find in some ways to be a little bit more helpful in sort of getting a sense of like, oh, that's what this text is doing.

00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:46.740
 Yeah.

00:56:47.220 --> 00:56:49.179
 Second question.

00:56:49.820 --> 00:56:52.720
 Tyler's first question about technological innovations of Persia.

00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:53.019
 Mm-hmm.

00:56:53.019 --> 00:56:56.299
 I remember reading a comment here in Zechariah.

00:56:56.679 --> 00:57:05.879
 They talked about how their better roads in their Pony Express mail system allowed them to respond to rebellions much faster,

00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:08.819
 and that was a big part of how they came to power.

00:57:09.299 --> 00:57:15.939
 Is there a truth to that, that they were actually just really good at putting down their rebellions before they took root?

00:57:16.459 --> 00:57:16.899
 Yeah.

00:57:16.900 --> 00:57:27.119
 So, one of the things, I don't know if I would say before they took power, but sort of as they take over all this territory, right, they, you need to have communication,

00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:34.320
 you need to have ways of moving armies, moving messengers, moving goods and supplies throughout an empire that's this big, right?

00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:36.240
 Again, this is so much bigger.

00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:41.539
 I mean, you know, we had the Persian, or sorry, the Assyrian Empire, right, fairly big.

00:57:41.959 --> 00:57:47.059
 Same thing with the, whoops, the Babylonian Empire, also fairly big.

00:57:47.099 --> 00:57:56.339
 But when you get something that's even larger than that, whoops, you really need to have a good way of communicating and transporting things.

00:57:56.340 --> 00:58:06.220
 And so they did develop a system of roads, sort of like an early highway system, essentially, or like you mentioned, sort of like a precursor to the Pony Express.

00:58:06.219 --> 00:58:19.219
 And they were able to sort of transport a lot of, again, armies, goods, a relatively, for the time, fast communication system.

00:58:20.819 --> 00:58:26.299
 You know, right, not quite the same as when I, you know, Zoom with a friend who's, you know, in Europe or something like that, you know.

00:58:26.379 --> 00:58:28.679
 But still, like for that time, very, very fast.

00:58:30.500 --> 00:58:31.719
 I'm willing to take more questions.

00:58:31.899 --> 00:58:33.399
 I also realize that it's 10 o'clock.

00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:35.639
 So if anybody wants to leave, you can.

00:58:35.740 --> 00:58:40.700
 I'm more than willing to stick around for a little while and talk about more stuff, answer more questions.

00:58:41.019 --> 00:58:42.380
 So, yeah.

00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:48.960
 The only thing that I have, it has nothing to do with anything you were talking about.

00:58:49.240 --> 00:58:57.579
 But you talk about how the part of the Caden, we have no idea what really happened during that time.

00:58:57.579 --> 00:59:03.199
 And I'm like, so people think, you know, our civilization.

00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:05.480
 Like, you know, we really don't know.

00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.619
 Everything's on magnetic stuff and it's all.

00:59:09.079 --> 00:59:09.340
 Yeah.

00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:16.880
 I mean, like, most of what, most of our records aren't even really on anything that's going to decay.

00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:18.739
 Like, you've got to have a machine to read it.

00:59:18.739 --> 00:59:29.500
 Even if it makes it through the Caden process, you know, you've got to have, you know, a PC to look at it.

00:59:29.799 --> 00:59:35.259
 Well, think about somebody who, you know, if, I have historian friends who talk about this.

00:59:35.299 --> 00:59:39.679
 And they say, you know, if I'm studying someone, you know, people do modern history.

00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:44.500
 And they say, well, a couple decades ago, right, you know, you can go through someone's papers, right?

00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:54.079
 Like, somebody will, when they pass away, you know, they might donate, their family members might donate their papers to a certain archive if the person's, like, relatively somewhat famous.

00:59:55.379 --> 00:59:58.139
 But we don't have that today, right?

00:59:58.179 --> 01:00:03.359
 Or we might, but, you know, you get into the 90s and all of a sudden you're like, okay, I'm studying this person who lived in the 90s.

01:00:03.980 --> 01:00:06.659
 We have his papers, but his papers include floppy disks.

01:00:07.739 --> 01:00:08.259
 Right.

01:00:08.260 --> 01:00:10.820
 I don't have a floppy disk reader anymore.

01:00:11.120 --> 01:00:13.100
 You know, like, what do you do with that?

01:00:13.160 --> 01:00:20.980
 How do you, you know, so there's similar things that, you know, may be going, again, I have historian friends who talk about this.

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:25.260
 And they're like, we need to do something to figure out, you know, or so much that it happens over email.

01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:26.160
 Right.

01:00:26.220 --> 01:00:33.180
 So much of what a, you know, you can look through, I mean, like, a lot of famous, some famous people, like, you can look through, like, C.S. Lewis's correspondence, right?

01:00:33.200 --> 01:00:34.340
 Like, I'm pretty sure that's published.

01:00:34.660 --> 01:00:35.840
 You can buy a book of that.

01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:40.880
 Even if I become famous, which I don't think I'll ever be C.S. Lewis famous, and I kind of hope not.

01:00:41.340 --> 01:00:46.320
 But, like, I have so much in email.

01:00:46.460 --> 01:00:49.019
 Like, no one's going to publish my, I hope no one ever publishes my emails, right?

01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:49.860
 That'd be so boring.

01:00:49.860 --> 01:00:53.059
 But, like, but.

01:00:53.120 --> 01:00:58.700
 But as a historian, you know that stuff that they thought boring, you're getting a lot out of it.

01:00:58.720 --> 01:00:59.500
 Well, that's true.

01:00:59.700 --> 01:00:59.860
 Yeah.

01:01:00.740 --> 01:01:09.559
 You're looking at these inscriptions, and sure, it's only halves, but you're getting stuff out of it.

01:01:09.740 --> 01:01:10.039
 Yeah.

01:01:10.740 --> 01:01:11.360
 That's true.

01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:12.519
 But, yeah, email.

01:01:12.519 --> 01:01:14.420
 And it's not even a floppy disk.

01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:18.900
 I mean, like, some of the stuff, you know, some of the, you know, like, I go back to Commodore 64 days.

01:01:19.579 --> 01:01:25.940
 You know, so guys that, like, are using Commodore 64 or Apple IIs or, like, that's lost.

01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:26.360
 Yeah.

01:01:26.739 --> 01:01:32.980
 You know, unless you go to a museum and you find a working Commodore 64, you're really out.

01:01:32.980 --> 01:01:33.940
 Yep, you're stuck.

01:01:36.119 --> 01:01:50.699
 I was just going to say that this problem, it's throughout the entire ancient world that, like, if you look at, in the first century AD, what civilizations are producing a lot of historical documents that were made to this day.

01:01:50.699 --> 01:01:56.460
 And there were a lot of civilizations that were writing and stuff, but there's only really, like, two.

01:01:57.019 --> 01:01:58.879
 And it's China and Rome.

01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:04.839
 Everybody else, Persia, the Indians, they just, their stuff is just pretty much mostly lost.

01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:08.719
 And so, like, for, and that's first century AD.

01:02:08.980 --> 01:02:12.299
 If you go back further, sometimes it's better because they're writing on different materials.

01:02:12.299 --> 01:02:13.119
 On clay, yeah.

01:02:13.399 --> 01:02:16.019
 But sometimes, obviously, it's also hard to make it longer.

01:02:16.339 --> 01:02:18.339
 And so this is not just a Bible thing.

01:02:18.339 --> 01:02:20.000
 Like, the Zoroastrians had the same problem.

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:21.579
 The Manichaeans had the same problem.

01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:23.440
 Like, the Hindus, they had the same problem.

01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:26.559
 The Buddhists, like, they can't, they have worse problems.

01:02:26.780 --> 01:02:30.179
 Because they don't, we have a much better archive, at least in the Christian period.

01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:32.500
 That's what I'm saying.

01:02:32.599 --> 01:02:34.420
 It wasn't necessarily related to the way it was talked about.

01:02:34.420 --> 01:02:35.019
 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:35.019 --> 01:02:47.739
 But just, like, the whole, the whole concept of, like, being able to go back to civilization, you know, and, like, literally the whole world now is on this digital system.

01:02:47.739 --> 01:02:48.099
 Yeah.

01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:49.739
 But it's...

01:02:49.739 --> 01:02:52.319
 I'm a discussion of people like my wife who have journals like me.

01:02:53.699 --> 01:02:55.159
 The Laura Bush archives.

01:02:56.159 --> 01:02:57.779
 They're all out of it.

01:02:57.839 --> 01:02:59.019
 Right about this meeting, Laura.

01:03:00.359 --> 01:03:00.719
 Yeah.

01:03:00.959 --> 01:03:03.399
 Otherwise, there'll be no record of it, you know, once we, yeah.

01:03:04.459 --> 01:03:04.479
 Yeah.

01:03:04.479 --> 01:03:05.259
 Do you have your journals, too?

01:03:05.919 --> 01:03:06.319
 Yeah.

01:03:08.579 --> 01:03:13.599
 But I think one of the things, going off Tom's point, too, right, you know, one of the things is, you know, so we have...

01:03:13.599 --> 01:03:16.960
 There's two different kinds of, like, historical sources that we have here.

01:03:17.019 --> 01:03:23.779
 We have, like, contemporary sources that survive, right?

01:03:23.780 --> 01:03:30.280
 So these are things, like, that are on stone or, like, bits of paper, parchment and papyrus that do survive.

01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:34.460
 We have clay because it survives, right?

01:03:34.460 --> 01:03:34.500
 Right.

01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:36.179
 We also then have...

01:03:36.179 --> 01:03:50.400
 The reason that we have sources that go back from, like, the classical tradition or from the Bible or, again, like, going further afield to, like, the Hindu tradition or the Buddhist tradition is because they're texts that get copied and passed down.

01:03:50.619 --> 01:03:51.079
 Right?

01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:51.119
 Right?

01:03:51.219 --> 01:03:52.079
 Until either...

01:03:52.699 --> 01:03:56.659
 Until modern times or until recent enough that those copies still exist.

01:03:57.239 --> 01:03:57.639
 Right?

01:03:57.739 --> 01:04:02.920
 So these are sort of the two kinds of historical sources that we deal with, and they each have problems, right?

01:04:02.980 --> 01:04:12.039
 The problem for the transmitted text is they're usually pretty complete, but then we always have to sort of figure out, like, what happened to this text along the way?

01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:13.960
 Like, did somebody mess up when they were copying it?

01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:15.920
 Did somebody, you know, scribes...

01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:29.039
 Before the printing press, scribes often felt, you know, that it was okay for them to add stuff into a text or sort of clarify something that didn't make any sense or update what seemed like an outdated verb form or something, right?

01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:29.300
 You know?

01:04:29.820 --> 01:04:32.840
 Sort of updating these and vows to you and your, right?

01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:33.119
 You know?

01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:36.179
 So that's the problem with transmitted text.

01:04:36.179 --> 01:04:45.139
 The problem with sort of contemporaneous excavated texts is, like this one, is that they have holes in them.

01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:46.519
 Right?

01:04:47.019 --> 01:04:54.319
 And also, again, sometimes they're in formats that don't make sense to us or that take a while for us to kind of figure out, right?

01:04:54.699 --> 01:04:56.619
 This one, like, this is an astronomical text.

01:04:57.699 --> 01:05:00.500
 I can't really read astronomical texts.

01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:05.000
 It's partly I don't have the mathematical brain, too, and I haven't tried as much.

01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:07.579
 I have a friend who does, and I'm trying to get him to explain it to me.

01:05:07.860 --> 01:05:14.739
 But also, like, again, like, they're using all this kind of format, formatting conventions for it that I just don't know.

01:05:15.460 --> 01:05:15.619
 Right?

01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:17.000
 So there's always...

01:05:17.579 --> 01:05:23.260
 There's a learning curve there, whereas transmitted texts are usually made easier, right?

01:05:23.340 --> 01:05:24.679
 They can be translated.

01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:27.340
 They can have, like, commentaries added to them.

01:05:27.340 --> 01:05:33.019
 They can have other things added to them to make them easier for later generations of readers to understand.

01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.739
 Any other questions?

01:05:40.059 --> 01:05:40.539
 Thoughts?

01:05:43.539 --> 01:05:44.099
 Yeah?

01:05:45.099 --> 01:05:46.460
 Are there any...

01:05:46.460 --> 01:05:48.420
 Is there any light you can shed?

01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:55.559
 I've understood that the Magi, because of the Jesus, were understood to have come out of some sort of Persian tradition,

01:05:55.559 --> 01:06:02.360
 which I've heard said originated in Daniel, from Daniel.

01:06:02.360 --> 01:06:03.000
 Mm-hmm.

01:06:06.299 --> 01:06:13.000
 Were the Persians really big into astrology, or, like, are there any interesting things?

01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:13.779
 Yeah.

01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:15.299
 So we do know...

01:06:15.299 --> 01:06:20.559
 And, Tom, you can jump in and correct me at any point, since this is closer to your wheelhouse than mine.

01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:29.000
 But, so part of the reason that we think that they may have been associated with Persia is because of the term magi, right?

01:06:29.059 --> 01:06:32.519
 Magus in Greek that's used to describe it, which is...

01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:33.699
 Which is a...

01:06:33.699 --> 01:06:37.460
 Like, magush is a technical term that comes from Persian.

01:06:37.460 --> 01:06:43.960
 It's used in the Greek tradition, both to refer specifically to people that the Persians would have said, yeah, that's a magush.

01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:48.019
 And also, in general, in...

01:06:48.019 --> 01:06:52.460
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Greek, it also becomes a term that can be used for any kind of...

01:06:52.460 --> 01:07:01.460
 Sort of priest or magician or ritual specialist who is kind of outside of...

01:07:03.019 --> 01:07:05.820
 Kind of whatever the author thinks is orthodox.

01:07:06.860 --> 01:07:07.380
 Right?

01:07:07.500 --> 01:07:09.460
 So in the same way we use, like...

01:07:10.820 --> 01:07:12.460
 We might...

01:07:12.460 --> 01:07:18.420
 We might refer to somebody as a magician or a sorcerer, right?

01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:22.420
 But then suddenly, if, you know...

01:07:22.420 --> 01:07:26.680
 If you go to a Catholic church, for example, you're not going to call the priest...

01:07:26.680 --> 01:07:27.460
 You're going to call him a priest.

01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:29.420
 You're not going to call him a magician.

01:07:30.099 --> 01:07:32.420
 Even though he's, you know...

01:07:33.420 --> 01:07:37.460
 Doing communion and saying, this is Christ's body, we're not going to be like, oh, what is this?

01:07:37.559 --> 01:07:38.240
 You know, like...

01:07:38.240 --> 01:07:39.559
 So there's sort of...

01:07:39.559 --> 01:07:40.420
 There's kind of a...

01:07:41.500 --> 01:07:43.119
 There's sort of an us and them that goes on.

01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:43.980
 So people...

01:07:43.980 --> 01:07:57.880
 One of the things is, with the Magi in the New Testament, is we're not entirely certain if that term is being used to say, like, these were people from just some other kind of Eastern culture.

01:07:58.179 --> 01:07:59.460
 Could have been Persian.

01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:00.460
 Could have been Babylonian.

01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:01.339
 Could have been Nabataean.

01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:02.579
 Could have been who knows.

01:08:02.759 --> 01:08:08.259
 Or were they specifically Persian Magush priests?

01:08:08.260 --> 01:08:13.080
 I don't know if you have any further light on that, Tom.

01:08:13.220 --> 01:08:14.240
 I have a similar thing.

01:08:14.340 --> 01:08:16.739
 There's an ancient Greek historian named Josephus.

01:08:16.940 --> 01:08:18.880
 And I think he talks about the Magi.

01:08:19.440 --> 01:08:20.140
 Not those...

01:08:20.140 --> 01:08:21.020
 Not the three Magi.

01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:22.640
 But just the concept of Magi.

01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:23.880
 And he mentions that...

01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:25.320
 So he's writing in, like, 90 AD.

01:08:25.539 --> 01:08:27.380
 So it's a pretty good source for us in the Bible.

01:08:27.860 --> 01:08:30.520
 And he mentions kind of the same thing.

01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.239
 He's like, some of these guys are just astronomers.

01:08:32.699 --> 01:08:33.739
 They're just...

01:08:33.739 --> 01:08:37.680
 But then some of them are more, like, what we would call, like, magic people.

01:08:37.680 --> 01:08:40.619
 Like, they're casting spells.

01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:42.740
 Like, ritual healers or things like that.

01:08:42.740 --> 01:08:42.960
 Yeah.

01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:44.280
 They're very much from astrology.

01:08:45.020 --> 01:08:45.640
 And...

01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:51.079
 But I will say that astronomy in the ancient world was more closely went with astrology than it is today.

01:08:51.380 --> 01:08:58.020
 So there were some ancient astronomers that were pretty straight cut and dry math folks.

01:08:58.180 --> 01:09:02.240
 But a lot of them also got involved in some other things.

01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:04.239
 So I think, though, the...

01:09:04.859 --> 01:09:06.239
 So some people theorize.

01:09:06.340 --> 01:09:10.239
 They wonder if these Magi who came to visit Jesus really, really...

01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:12.359
 I'll move forward to the same here.

01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:14.239
 That were really...

01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:19.960
 If it's talking about, like, another religious tradition.

01:09:19.960 --> 01:09:28.859
 If this is coming from Persia and it's showing that, like, the Jews were living in Persia for hundreds of years.

01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:31.159
 And there may have been some traditions about this.

01:09:31.380 --> 01:09:33.140
 That's why they're interested in Jesus.

01:09:33.819 --> 01:09:35.859
 Could have been they saw this crazy thing in the sky.

01:09:35.939 --> 01:09:36.840
 That's all it was.

01:09:36.939 --> 01:09:38.199
 And so they're coming.

01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:39.159
 It's a little mysterious.

01:09:39.899 --> 01:09:43.079
 So regarding whether Matthew's trying...

01:09:43.079 --> 01:09:46.239
 He hopes his audience thinks that there was something in the sky that was seen.

01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:48.179
 Or if he's trying to show there was...

01:09:48.179 --> 01:09:51.559
 Even alternative religions are acknowledging the Christ who is coming.

01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:52.319
 Or both.

01:09:52.880 --> 01:09:53.559
 It's a little...

01:09:53.559 --> 01:09:54.880
 It's not entirely.

01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:56.199
 And it is...

01:09:56.800 --> 01:10:00.519
 I will say, too, with Persians and astrology and astronomy, right?

01:10:00.599 --> 01:10:02.199
 So it does...

01:10:03.319 --> 01:10:07.539
 Again, because they probably wrote most of this stuff on papyrus or parchment,

01:10:07.539 --> 01:10:10.140
 we don't have a ton of Persian astronomy.

01:10:11.380 --> 01:10:17.199
 Stuff that I've read from people who sort of look at the diffusion of astronomical knowledge in the ancient world,

01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:28.279
 there does seem to be relative consensus that this Babylonian astronomy was probably what was sort of passed on to the Persians.

01:10:29.899 --> 01:10:30.199
 So the...

01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:31.220
 Passed on to the Greeks, right?

01:10:31.300 --> 01:10:32.180
 And on to the Greeks, yeah.

01:10:32.180 --> 01:10:37.039
 So I think I mentioned this last time when we did Babylonia, but I'll just say it again.

01:10:37.539 --> 01:10:46.019
 So Babylonian priests over this time, over a couple hundred years,

01:10:46.380 --> 01:10:49.519
 would every night go to the top of their temples and look up at the night sky,

01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:51.399
 and they would just record where things were.

01:10:52.300 --> 01:10:54.000
 And eventually they noticed patterns,

01:10:54.399 --> 01:10:59.060
 and they developed mathematical models to sort of analyze those patterns

01:10:59.060 --> 01:11:01.460
 and describe those patterns and be able to predict stuff.

01:11:01.460 --> 01:11:04.340
 And that's when it got exciting for them, when they realized they could predict things.

01:11:05.500 --> 01:11:08.500
 And they actually passed on a lot of this knowledge to other cultures.

01:11:08.579 --> 01:11:13.060
 So, for example, the Greek astronomer Ptolemy, who wrote this book called The Almagist,

01:11:13.119 --> 01:11:16.159
 which was kind of like the textbook that you read for astronomy,

01:11:16.359 --> 01:11:20.060
 basically up until Copernicus, essentially.

01:11:20.060 --> 01:11:30.260
 Ptolemy has, in the back of his book, he has a bunch of, like, tables of data.

01:11:31.480 --> 01:11:35.120
 And he says that he got this data from...

01:11:35.120 --> 01:11:37.580
 He calls them Chaldean priests.

01:11:37.640 --> 01:11:39.200
 What he means is Babylonian astronomers.

01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:42.859
 And even the way that they're dated, right,

01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:47.220
 because they didn't have, like, a sort of consistent, sort of like we do, right,

01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:53.699
 you know, 536, you know, B.C. and 57, A.D., you know, A.D. 57.

01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:55.340
 You know, they didn't quite have that,

01:11:55.399 --> 01:11:59.319
 so they dated by, you know, the fifth year of King X, right?

01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:02.119
 And when Ptolemy has these listed out this way,

01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:04.460
 he uses the names of these Babylonian kings,

01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:07.279
 and later Persian kings, and so forth.

01:12:07.279 --> 01:12:09.179
 So we know that this is the...

01:12:09.179 --> 01:12:12.119
 It corroborates the idea that this is data that he's getting

01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:15.960
 from these kinds of records, right?

01:12:16.039 --> 01:12:19.939
 He, in whatever form, somebody brought this data to him,

01:12:20.460 --> 01:12:22.019
 and he put it in his book.

01:12:22.259 --> 01:12:26.239
 And that's been used ever since, to some extent.

01:12:28.639 --> 01:12:30.679
 And he's writing after Matthew,

01:12:30.819 --> 01:12:33.079
 so that just shows that that tradition was still alive

01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:35.279
 during Matthew and Jesus' age.

01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:36.279
 This...

01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:39.259
 So they could have been these Caldean astronomers.

01:12:39.340 --> 01:12:39.559
 Mm-hmm.

01:12:39.739 --> 01:12:40.019
 King.

01:12:40.539 --> 01:12:40.800
 Yeah.

01:12:42.119 --> 01:12:45.059
 Well, I think the Septuagint,

01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:49.039
 when he talks about the magicians that Moses and Aaron

01:12:49.039 --> 01:12:49.840
 are from Egypt,

01:12:50.679 --> 01:12:52.000
 he's just a word that he can.

01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:52.819
 Yeah, probably.

01:12:53.179 --> 01:12:53.800
 Probably, yes.

01:12:53.800 --> 01:12:55.519
 Which corroborates the...

01:12:55.519 --> 01:12:57.039
 It can also just be a majority in terms of...

01:12:57.039 --> 01:12:57.259
 Yeah.

01:12:57.619 --> 01:12:57.939
 Yes.

01:12:58.139 --> 01:12:58.300
 Yeah.

01:12:59.300 --> 01:12:59.779
 Yeah.

01:12:59.779 --> 01:12:59.819
 Yeah.

01:13:01.460 --> 01:13:03.579
 That's where we get the word magic from.

01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:04.119
 Yeah.

01:13:04.119 --> 01:13:09.599
 That whole issue in sort of study of the ancient world

01:13:09.599 --> 01:13:12.340
 is interesting in terms of what we term...

01:13:12.340 --> 01:13:13.739
 How we use the term magic, right?

01:13:13.739 --> 01:13:17.720
 Some people don't even like using the term magic

01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:19.359
 for describing things in the ancient world

01:13:19.359 --> 01:13:22.340
 because it can be a term to sort of mean, like,

01:13:22.420 --> 01:13:26.420
 anything that we don't think is legitimate.

01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:27.979
 Right?

01:13:28.059 --> 01:13:30.479
 Sort of like, we have priests, they have magicians.

01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:30.879
 Right?

01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:35.699
 We have, you know, we have doctors, they have magicians.

01:13:35.879 --> 01:13:38.339
 You know, it becomes sort of a term.

01:13:38.479 --> 01:13:41.199
 You know, we don't talk about our own magicians

01:13:41.199 --> 01:13:42.779
 unless we're talking about, like, stage magicians,

01:13:42.839 --> 01:13:44.299
 you know, who we all know do tricks.

01:13:44.359 --> 01:13:44.459
 Right?

01:13:44.539 --> 01:13:48.439
 You know, so some people try not to use the term

01:13:48.439 --> 01:13:52.000
 because it can be a little bit slippery.

01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:54.300
 I go back and forth on it.

01:13:54.699 --> 01:13:56.619
 I think if you define what you mean,

01:13:57.279 --> 01:13:58.819
 I think it can be okay,

01:13:59.659 --> 01:14:02.380
 but you have to be really careful to define what you mean by it

01:14:02.380 --> 01:14:03.140
 and then stick to that.

01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:07.619
 But anyway, that's a whole, like, scholarly issue of definitions.

01:14:07.619 --> 01:14:13.180
 So, any last questions or should we stop it there?

01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:17.500
 Thank you, John.

01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:17.880
 All right.

01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:19.420
 I'll be around if anybody wants to talk.

01:14:19.579 --> 01:14:21.079
 So, thanks for coming.

01:14:21.559 --> 01:14:22.260
 Hope you all enjoyed.