WEBVTT

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 Well, let me add my welcome to Nathan's first. My name is Steve, if you don't know me.

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! I am the pastor of the church, one of the church leaders here. And we have, over these last few

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! Sunday evenings, been thinking about some big doctrinal questions and how they are answered,

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 or have been answered in history, specifically by the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith. Now,

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 if this is your first time here on Sunday evening, you might think, wow, I've never heard of something

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 so interesting as that. Or you might be thinking, wow, that sounds terrible. But anyway, hopefully

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 you'll see that actually many of the questions that we wrestle with, which are really pertinent to our

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 day-to-day Christian lives, are not unique to us, but have been wrestled with down through history by

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 Christians in centuries gone by. And last week, we started thinking about, when we say we believe in

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 God, what do we mean by that? What kind of God is it that we believe in? What makes our God different

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 to Allah, or to the multitude of Hindu gods, or to the vague idea of many of our friends who don't

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 really want to write off the idea of God altogether, but still don't really believe in the Bible?

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 Someone who would be like a deist or a theist, someone who thinks that there is a God who exists,

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 but don't really think much about him. And we saw last week, if you remember, that the distinction

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 between the Christian gods and other gods is that the claim of the Christian is that God speaks.

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 I mean, maybe that's not unique itself, but that God speaks not in a general sense, but so accommodates

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 himself to our understanding that he speaks by, in the person of the Son, putting on human flesh,

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 and arriving in our world that we might know him, and that we might see him in flesh,

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 so that the Son says, anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. We saw last week that God isn't

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 just revealing his actions, but his essence in Christ, that while we don't know everything about

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 him, which would be impossible for us, we do know true things about God. Now, I know, right, because

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 there are people both in the church and in my family who tell me that sometimes this is complicated and

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 confusing, right? And so I know that you might be thinking, oh, this is going to be brain stretching

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 again tonight. But let me tell you that thinking big thoughts about God and who he is, is really the

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 very center of Christian discipleship. I think you could probably say, and this wouldn't be far from

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 the truth, I think it would be true and helpful. You might be able to unpick it later. But I think you can

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 say that there is not a problem that you have, or an issue that you face, or a worry that you have

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 that keeps you up at night, which is not solved, or at least resolved in your mind by a bigger view of

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 God than you have at the moment. You could say, to put it the other way, that Christian growth is the

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 process of God becoming bigger in your mind and understanding, and you becoming smaller.

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 However, as you are humbled and God is glorified, that's how it works. We swap out our self-interest

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 and our self-sufficiency for faith in him. Now, if that's Christian growth, then there is one doctrine

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 that makes you realize more and more that you cannot fully grasp God, which is the doctrine of the

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 Trinity. And that's what we're going to be thinking about together this evening. Our church is a part of a

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 fellowship of churches called the Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches, and they have a

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 theological committee. And the head of that theological committee, who is a guy that you

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 might not know, says this about the doctrine of the Trinity. He says, if your doctrine of the Trinity

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 is simply understood, it's wrong. Because the doctrine of the Trinity is not simple, and that is our territory this

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 evening. What does it mean for God to be a Trinity? Who are the persons? How do they relate to one another?

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 And what difference does that make? So let's start with the 1689 Baptist Confession, chapter two,

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 paragraph three, which some of you have probably memorized already anyway, but it says this about

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 the Trinity. It's on your handout. This divine and infinite being consists of three real persons,

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 the Father, the Word or Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three have the same substance, power, and eternity,

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 each having the whole divine essence without this essence being divided. The Father is not derived from

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 anyone, neither begotten nor proceeding. The Son is eternally begotten of the Father. The Holy Spirit

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 proceeds from the Father and the Son. All three are infinite and without beginning, and are therefore

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 only one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being. Yet these three are distinguished by several

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 distinctive characteristics and personal relations. This truth of the Trinity is the foundation of all

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 our fellowship with God and of our comforting dependence on him. Okay, with the person next to you,

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 have a look through the statement and just sort of mark out what it's trying to say about the Trinity,

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 underlying its truths. What is it trying to get us to understand about the Trinity?

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 Have a go at that. Big ideas, and then we'll feed some back.

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 Okay, sorry to interrupt your conversations.

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 I'm not going to take feedback on that just because you can ask me those questions in a moment,

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 and I think hopefully some of what you've been discussing will come out in what I've got prepared

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 here. I was going to show you that there are three things about the Trinity here, which I thought

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 would be quite cool, but I think actually it's easier if we see four things instead of three,

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 which is slightly annoying, isn't it? But anyway, here's the first thing that I want to show you

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 that the confession is saying about the Trinity. Firstly, three persons, okay?

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 There are three real persons, as the confession puts it. So importantly, the father is not the son,

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 and the son is not the spirit, and the spirit is not the father. Or you can put it another way,

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 there is not one God who turns up in three different ways or three different forms. That is an ancient

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 heresy called modalism, the idea that God turns up in different modes. And you might have been taught

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 in RE at school, if you were taught RE at school, that it's like water being like ice and steam.

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 And yeah, water, ice and steam, right? But it's not like that, is it? Because that's essentially the

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 same thing just appearing in different ways. But there are actually distinct persons who can be

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 talked about independently, and for whom their distinction from one another really is their

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 main distinction, okay? So it is that the father is not the son, is not the spirit, is the main thing

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 about the father. And that the son is not the father and not the spirit is, in a sense, the main thing

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 about the son. Here the confession is echoing the Nicene Creed, one father, one son, one spirit, one God.

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 And that in turn is echoing really things like Matthew 28, when Jesus says, therefore, go and

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 make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the

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 Holy Spirit. Of course, there'd be absolutely no point in saying that, would there? Unless there were

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 three persons, you would baptize them into the name of God, because there is just one person, right?

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 But if there are three persons, you would baptize them into the name of the father, the son, and the

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 spirit. Or Mark 1, the same, just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being

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 torn open, and the spirit descending on him like a dove, and a voice came from heaven, you are my son

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 whom I love, with you I am well pleased. Here you have the son in the water, the spirit descending like

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 a dove, and the voice of the father from heaven. Of course, if modalism was true, that would be

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 complete nonsense. Because there wouldn't be distinct persons, but these are three distinct

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 real persons. Now, the individual discernible and distinct three persons are really important,

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 and right at the start of understanding the doctrine of the Trinity. But, second thing is,

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 there is only one God. So, three persons and one God. One substance or essence possessed. So,

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 we're told by the confession that these three have the same substance, power, and eternity,

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 each having the whole divine essence without this essence being divided. This is really important,

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 and it's really carefully worded, okay? The divine essence isn't divided up a third, a third,

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 a third, so that the son has a third of the divine essence, the father has a third, and the spirit has

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 a third, and when they get together, it's the magical, you know, they're all the divine essence. No,

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 the son possesses the fullness of divine essence, the father possesses the fullness of divine essence,

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 and the spirit is also fully God. So, to meet the son is to meet God. To be indwelt by the spirit

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 is to be indwelt by God himself. Now, that means that the other thing that you were taught at Aria at

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 school, not just water, ice, and steam, but the three-leaf clover thing is also not true, right?

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 Because a three-leaf clover is, you know, you pull a leaf away, and you've got less than it,

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 haven't you? It's a third, a third, a third. But one person is the whole divinity. To worship the son

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 is to worship God. To pray to the father is to speak to God. Now, notice that the son is eternally

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 begotten of the father. Now, what does begotten mean? It means that there is not a time when the

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 son was not. He is not made by the father, in that sense. He is begotten by the father. He is from the

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 father. He is the son of the father, but it is an eternal begottenness, and so that there isn't a

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 beginning to the son, he is eternal and sharing in the divine essence with the father. So here again,

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 the confession, along with the Nicene Creed, condemns Arianism, where a guy called Arius

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 denied the full deity of the son, saying that, you know, the son is created by the father and therefore

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 less than God, so he is not a possessor of the full divine essence. That, of course, is now the position

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 of the Jehovah's Witnesses, isn't it? But it's wrong. Why is it wrong? Well, it means, doesn't it, if Jesus

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 is not eternally begotten of the father, and if he is not the possessor of full divine essence, if the

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 person of the son in his divinity is not fully God, if he's less than God, then it means, doesn't it, that

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 worshipping Jesus is kind of idolatrous, because you're worshipping someone who is less than divine,

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 and the gospels are full of the worship of Jesus. The disciples at the end of the gospels, bless you,

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 end up worshipping Jesus. Or if the son is less than fully God, and is somehow sort of independent

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 from the Godhead on a sort of slightly lower echelon than God himself, the father or whatever, then that

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 would mean that the substitutionary work of Christ on the cross is somehow God taking out a vendetta

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 on an innocent third party in order to make himself feel better about his anger against sin,

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 which of course is a terrible heresy. It would be a wicked thing for God to be. And the New Testament

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 teaches us that Christ on the cross is God satisfying himself for our sin, presenting himself to himself to

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 satisfy himself. And if Jesus, one last thing, if Jesus was less than fully divine, less than a possessor of the divine

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 essence in human flesh, it would mean that anything that you learnt about God from the son would not be quite right.

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 Yeah. So when Jesus says, if you've seen me, you've seen God, you've seen the father, but he's not really a possessor of the

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 divine essence. He is, he's made by the father, he's made less than God himself. Then what you learn about

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 God from seeing the Lord Jesus is really not quite right, because you're seeing someone who's not quite

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 there, who's not quite divine. But of course, when God comes in human flesh, when the person of the son

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 takes on human flesh, and arrives, he is revealing God to us, so that he can say, if you've seen me,

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 you've seen the father, he can say that the word has become flesh, he can say that you can know God

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 through knowing him. This is how God reveals himself. It's perhaps, I think, helpful to think, because we end up

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 interacting with people who often think that Jesus is less than divine, don't we? So that's what the

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 Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Obviously, that's what Muslims would believe about Jesus as well. It's important,

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 I think, though, particularly with Jehovah's Witnesses, who would claim to be Christians,

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 especially when they talk to you on the street, or knock on your door, to say to them, listen,

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 you can't be a Christian, because you don't believe about Jesus what Christians have always believed

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 about him, which is that he is fully divine. And for you to change what Christians have believed about

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 Jesus for 2,000 years, and still to think you carry the badge, well, you're deluded. That's not a minor

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 change, that is a massive change. Because there are three persons, but there is only one God, and each of

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 those three persons are full possessors of the divine essence, so they are fully God. Okay, next, it's worth

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 noticing that the confession spells out that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. So

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 we thought a bit about the begottenness of the Son, eternally begotten, not made. It's now worth noticing

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 we are told that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Now, do you know the controversy

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 between the Eastern and Western Church? So you end up with the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Roman Church,

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 which then splits with the Protestant Reformation, is the battle between Rome and Constantinople. So Rome,

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 the seat of the Roman Church, and Constantinople, the head of the Eastern Church. They got together for

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 the Council of Nicaea, and they agreed that the Spirit proceeded from the Father. And later the Roman Church

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 added, probably under the influence of Augustine, that the Spirit proceeded from the Father and the Son.

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 Interesting, I don't really know enough of the history. You can perhaps find it out and let me know.

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 But I'm not sure how much the disagreement was theological as it was political. The Eastern Church

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 was annoyed that the Roman Church had added to the Creed without having another Council.

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 But anyway, they split off over this, and so the Eastern and Western Church went one way,

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 and the other one went the other way. But here, the Confession picks up this idea from the Creed,

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 that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. That God the Son, in human flesh, returns to the

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 Father, requesting that the Spirit be sent to His people, that they might continue His ministry.

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 And so the Father and the Son send the Spirit, which is what happens at Pentecost.

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 Now, that points to this idea of what we call the roles of the Trinity, or the economy of the Trinity.

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 Just nod if you're still with me. Yeah? Okay, great.

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 So, three persons, one God, the Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son, the Son eternally begotten of the Father.

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 Now, the roles of the Trinity. So, although there is one God, and the persons of the Trinity indwell one another,

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 still, in the way that God reveals Himself, the persons do different things.

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 So, it is the Son, not the Father, who takes on human flesh, and arrives in this world to die on the cross.

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 And it's the Father who sends the Son, not the Son who sends the Father.

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 It's the Father who is not derived from anyone, neither begotten nor proceeding, as the Confession puts it.

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 The Son is begotten, the Spirit proceeds.

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 Now, the way that this has been distinguished is in language like this, the distinction between the imminent Trinity,

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 or sometimes called the ontological Trinity, and the economic Trinity.

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 Now, don't be afraid of those words, okay? Words aren't scary, right?

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 The imminent Trinity, or ontological Trinity, that means God as He really is.

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 Okay? That in His eternal relations, what God is really like.

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 And the economic Trinity is how we experience Him through His actions, okay?

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 Now, in a way, that distinction, in some senses, is a false distinction.

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 It's one to help us think, rather than one that actually exists in reality, in a sense.

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 Because the economic Trinity reveals real things about the imminent Trinity.

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 So we do see who He really is through how He works.

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 But it's important, isn't it, to notice how He works, because they're not quite the same thing.

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 And so we see this in the way that Jesus speaks about His Father telling Him what to do,

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 that He is obeying the will of the Father, in a way that the Father doesn't obey the will of the Son.

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 But the will of the Father is the will of God, and Jesus is part of the Godhead, yeah?

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 And is fully God.

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 So there is a distinction between the imminent Trinity and the economic Trinity.

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 But they are very close together, yeah?

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 Does that make sense? Yeah?

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 We're all nodding.

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 Can I say it again?

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 Which bit?

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 That bit.

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 That bit.

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 I can't read from that far away.

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 Oh my goodness.

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 I'm 50 years old, don't you know?

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 Yeah, that's right.

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 Okay, I'm 12, when I want to be.

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 So, the idea is that God, in His eternal relations,

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 we haven't known God in His eternal relations, yeah?

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 Because we have not been there.

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 You and I, we're not in eternity past.

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 Some of us are old, but we're not that old, right?

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 God has been relating in eternity past as Father, Son, and Spirit, yeah?

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 We know God from His revelation of Himself and see Him in His actions, yeah?

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 And so, we get to speak about the economy of the Trinity,

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 which is how we see Him working in time and space and history.

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 So, in time and space and history, the Father sends the Son.

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 The Son takes on human flesh.

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 The Son is indwelt by the Spirit and empowered by the Spirit to do remarkable things for the glory of God.

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 In the end, dying on a cross and rising again for our salvation.

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 And so, what we need to say, we need to be careful about that distinction,

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 because we don't fully understand everything about God, yeah?

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 But we do see how He works, and that's revealed to us in the Scriptures.

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 But we need to retain this idea that the eternal relations of the Trinity are somewhat, in some senses,

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 revealed in part, but not in full.

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 Okay?

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 I'm not going to say that.

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 Right, because that would be even more confusing.

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 I want you, with the person next to you, or persons next to you,

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 just to have a think about some of those things.

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 Why is understanding the Trinity important in the Christian life?

00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:04.860
 Say, why is it important that we understand that there are three persons, one God,

00:21:05.299 --> 00:21:07.880
 that the Son is begotten of the Father,

00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:10.319
 and the Spirit is proceeding from the Father and the Son,

00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:14.279
 and that there's a distinction between the economic and imminent Trinity?

00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:15.340
 Why is that important?

00:21:15.460 --> 00:21:16.299
 What difference does it make?

00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:19.340
 Is it possible to be a Christian and just ignore all of this?

00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.500
 Have a think with the person next to you about that, and then we'll feed back.

00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:24.500
 Thank you.

00:21:30.200 --> 00:22:00.180
 Thank you.

00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.920
 Go on, Matthews.

00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.720
 We discussed quite a bit.

00:22:07.120 --> 00:22:07.920
 So...

00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.100
 I can imagine.

00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:10.920
 You're sat next to my dad.

00:22:11.120 --> 00:22:11.299
 Yeah.

00:22:11.539 --> 00:22:11.940
 Yeah.

00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:12.940
 So...

00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:16.660
 So we did...

00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:19.240
 The first thing we discussed was...

00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.960
 And the question was, why is it important to understand the Trinity?

00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:23.460
 Yeah.

00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:24.779
 And then we spoke...

00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:26.039
 We mentioned the Old Testament.

00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:27.539
 So when they...

00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:32.420
 When they built in the tent for God to come and go in,

00:22:32.420 --> 00:22:34.140
 and there was...

00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:36.140
 Aaron's sons got...

00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:38.140
 Aaron's sons got...

00:22:38.140 --> 00:22:38.800
 Yeah.

00:22:38.800 --> 00:22:40.140
 So you had to be...

00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:40.640
 Yeah.

00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.140
 So then...

00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:44.220
 Because this is what I said.

00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:45.140
 This is something that Shavu...

00:22:45.140 --> 00:22:46.019
 Yeah.

00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:47.140
 So...

00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:49.860
 The first thing...

00:22:49.860 --> 00:22:50.860
 The importance is...

00:22:50.860 --> 00:22:52.860
 Only God can...

00:22:52.860 --> 00:22:53.280
 Only...

00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:55.060
 For God to dwell inside of you...

00:22:55.060 --> 00:22:56.980
 Only He can make it...

00:22:56.980 --> 00:22:57.860
 Can make...

00:22:57.860 --> 00:22:59.759
 Your body a temple for His dwelling.

00:23:00.320 --> 00:23:01.980
 So I thought...

00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:02.860
 I had to understand...

00:23:02.859 --> 00:23:04.899
 Jesus being sacrificed for you...

00:23:04.899 --> 00:23:05.979
 You know that...

00:23:05.979 --> 00:23:07.039
 Believing in Him...

00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:08.039
 And once you believe in Him...

00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:09.099
 You believe in the words He says...

00:23:09.099 --> 00:23:10.919
 And once you believe in the words He says...

00:23:10.919 --> 00:23:12.000
 He can...

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.079
 Allow the Holy Spirit to come and go in and do the work.

00:23:14.419 --> 00:23:14.659
 Yeah.

00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:15.279
 Yeah.

00:23:16.219 --> 00:23:16.439
 Wow.

00:23:16.479 --> 00:23:17.319
 There's quite a lot there, isn't there?

00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:18.019
 So just about...

00:23:18.019 --> 00:23:19.579
 In terms of...

00:23:19.579 --> 00:23:20.579
 The...

00:23:20.579 --> 00:23:20.959
 I...

00:23:20.959 --> 00:23:23.039
 I need Jesus...

00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:23.459
 To...

00:23:23.459 --> 00:23:25.559
 To be fully divine.

00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:28.740
 It's alright, Liz.

00:23:28.879 --> 00:23:29.459
 No one's noticed.

00:23:30.659 --> 00:23:32.639
 I need Jesus to be fully divine.

00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:35.320
 So that the righteousness that He might give me...

00:23:35.320 --> 00:23:37.980
 Might be sufficient for then the Spirit to dwell in me.

00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:38.460
 Yeah.

00:23:38.820 --> 00:23:39.160
 Yeah?

00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:40.640
 So because...

00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:43.640
 Because if His righteousness is not...

00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:44.640
 Full righteousness...

00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:46.480
 Then I will not be...

00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.800
 Able to be in His presence.

00:23:47.980 --> 00:23:48.100
 Yeah.

00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:49.300
 That's really helpful.

00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:52.180
 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:53.200
 Yeah, that's great.

00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:54.200
 Yeah.

00:23:55.780 --> 00:23:57.640
 We were saying that...

00:23:57.640 --> 00:23:58.640
 It's important...

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.640
 Because...

00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.620
 It's good for us to know...

00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:03.619
 What different roles...

00:24:03.619 --> 00:24:05.279
 The Trinity has.

00:24:05.619 --> 00:24:06.659
 Because as you see...

00:24:06.659 --> 00:24:07.619
 The Spirit...

00:24:08.399 --> 00:24:09.899
 Brings us and sanctifies us.

00:24:09.979 --> 00:24:10.619
 And Jesus...

00:24:11.139 --> 00:24:12.619
 Saying that to the Father...

00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:13.619
 Yeah.

00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:13.779
 Yeah.

00:24:13.779 --> 00:24:14.279
 I don't know.

00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:14.779
 I don't know.

00:24:16.899 --> 00:24:17.779
 Not saying...

00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:20.179
 But as we do that...

00:24:20.179 --> 00:24:20.619
 We also...

00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:21.899
 Realise...

00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.259
 That is something that we do.

00:24:24.560 --> 00:24:24.759
 Yeah.

00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:25.240
 Like...

00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:26.780
 It helps us to remember that...

00:24:26.780 --> 00:24:27.980
 They are all working...

00:24:27.980 --> 00:24:28.180
 Yeah.

00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:28.680
 For us.

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:29.540
 Save us.

00:24:29.620 --> 00:24:29.980
 Yeah.

00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:32.140
 We just trust Him.

00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:32.680
 Yeah.

00:24:33.120 --> 00:24:33.720
 That's...

00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:34.519
 Yeah.

00:24:34.940 --> 00:24:35.180
 Yeah.

00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:36.900
 So it just helps underline this idea...

00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:38.380
 That it is all God's work.

00:24:38.580 --> 00:24:38.780
 Yeah.

00:24:39.320 --> 00:24:39.460
 Yeah.

00:24:39.460 --> 00:24:40.460
 Yeah.

00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:41.460
 I suppose...

00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:43.920
 I mean there's two...

00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:44.460
 You've got...

00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:46.460
 God has been communal...

00:24:46.460 --> 00:24:48.299
 It's like a role model for us...

00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:49.460
 Our relationships...

00:24:49.460 --> 00:24:51.460
 But then you've got Jesus being a role model for us...

00:24:51.460 --> 00:24:52.460
 Our relationship...

00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:53.460
 To the Godhead.

00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:54.779
 To the Godhead.

00:24:54.840 --> 00:24:55.019
 Yeah.

00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:57.019
 So you keep having this...

00:24:57.639 --> 00:24:58.019
 Yes.

00:24:58.960 --> 00:24:59.019
 Yes.

00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:02.500
 Yes.

00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:04.039
 Yeah.

00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:05.700
 Yeah.

00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:06.559
 No thanks Mike.

00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:06.980
 Yeah.

00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:07.920
 Yeah.

00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:08.900
 Yeah.

00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:11.180
 Yeah.

00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:15.940
 Yeah.

00:25:16.379 --> 00:25:16.559
 Yeah.

00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:17.579
 Yeah.

00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:20.220
 So it's useful to know who you're talking to...

00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:21.299
 And why you're talking to them...

00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:21.579
 Yeah.

00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:22.160
 Exactly.

00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:22.720
 Yeah.

00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:24.379
 Speak to the Father...

00:25:24.379 --> 00:25:25.000
 Through the Son...

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:26.119
 In the power of the Spirit...

00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:26.299
 Yeah.

00:25:26.539 --> 00:25:27.759
 We can pray to Jesus as well.

00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:28.059
 You're right.

00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:28.619
 That is...

00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:30.319
 There is an instance of that in the Bible.

00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:32.579
 Let me just pull out a few things...

00:25:32.579 --> 00:25:34.000
 And then we'll finish with this.

00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:37.160
 The first thing I just want to say...

00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:37.880
 Is that really...

00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.000
 It's only when you begin to understand the Trinity...

00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:43.579
 That you really can understand the world in which we live.

00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:43.839
 Right?

00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:46.160
 It's only this God that explains the world.

00:25:46.339 --> 00:25:46.480
 Right?

00:25:47.779 --> 00:25:50.660
 Perhaps the greatest thing in the world...

00:25:50.660 --> 00:25:52.000
 I mean obviously other than God...

00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:53.720
 Is love, isn't it?

00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:55.240
 Love is what we treasure most.

00:25:55.339 --> 00:25:55.519
 Yeah?

00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:58.460
 Love motivates our greatest actions.

00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:00.000
 It's the heart of every good story.

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.000
 But if God was not a triune God...

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.900
 He would be incapable of creating a world of love.

00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:08.280
 Right?

00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:14.360
 It's because God has been in a loving Trinitarian relationship...

00:26:14.360 --> 00:26:16.220
 Between Father, Son and Spirit...

00:26:16.220 --> 00:26:20.160
 That he is able to make a world of love.

00:26:21.320 --> 00:26:21.420
 Right?

00:26:21.800 --> 00:26:24.400
 That the sort of monotheistic Allah...

00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:27.660
 Is incapable of creating the world you experience.

00:26:29.040 --> 00:26:31.400
 And that is why he is not the true God.

00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:34.500
 You see it in lots of other ways, don't you?

00:26:34.560 --> 00:26:36.420
 That the diversity in our world...

00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:38.180
 That is gloriously united together...

00:26:39.019 --> 00:26:41.480
 This distinct from one another...

00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:43.180
 But inseparable from one another...

00:26:43.180 --> 00:26:45.360
 Is all over our world, isn't it?

00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:46.380
 Night and day.

00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:47.680
 Land and sea.

00:26:47.820 --> 00:26:48.600
 Husband and wife.

00:26:49.060 --> 00:26:50.180
 It is the Trinitarian...

00:26:51.280 --> 00:26:52.500
 Distinct but inseparable.

00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:55.819
 But I think perhaps the most important application...

00:26:55.819 --> 00:26:57.440
 Is spelt out for us by Jesus...

00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.460
 In his high priestly prayer in John 17.

00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:01.460
 And this picks up some of the things...

00:27:01.460 --> 00:27:02.640
 That have been already mentioned.

00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:03.900
 Let me just read this to you...

00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:06.160
 And we'll work through just a few things here.

00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.259
 Jesus praying to his Father.

00:27:10.420 --> 00:27:12.420
 An inter-Trinitarian conversation.

00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:15.279
 Jesus in his humanity.

00:27:17.660 --> 00:27:20.079
 Linked to his divinity in the one person...

00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:20.519
 The Son.

00:27:21.099 --> 00:27:22.359
 In the power of the Spirit.

00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:23.640
 Speaks to his Father.

00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:25.920
 My prayer, he says...

00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.200
 Is not for them alone.

00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:28.500
 That means not just the disciples.

00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:30.500
 I pray also...

00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:33.279
 For those who will believe in me...

00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:34.039
 Through their message.

00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:35.599
 That's you and me this evening.

00:27:36.339 --> 00:27:38.440
 That all of them may be one, Father...

00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:40.059
 Just as you are in me...

00:27:40.059 --> 00:27:41.420
 And I am in you.

00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:44.380
 May they also be in us...

00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:46.019
 So that the world may believe...

00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:46.940
 That you have sent me.

00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:49.319
 I have given them glory.

00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.319
 The glory that you gave me.

00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:53.819
 That they may be one as we are one.

00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:56.179
 I in them and you in me.

00:27:56.419 --> 00:27:59.419
 So that they may be brought to complete unity.

00:28:00.099 --> 00:28:01.960
 Then the world will know...

00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.299
 That you have sent me and loved them...

00:28:04.299 --> 00:28:06.200
 Even as you have loved me.

00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:08.099
 Father...

00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:10.319
 I want those you have given me...

00:28:11.019 --> 00:28:13.419
 To be with me where I am.

00:28:13.420 --> 00:28:15.480
 And to see my glory.

00:28:16.060 --> 00:28:17.660
 The glory you have given me...

00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:18.940
 Because you loved me...

00:28:18.940 --> 00:28:20.660
 Before the creation of the world.

00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:23.680
 Righteous Father...

00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:25.279
 Though the world does not know you...

00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:26.320
 I know you...

00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:28.680
 And they know that you have sent me.

00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.160
 I have made you known to them...

00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:33.560
 And will continue to make you known...

00:28:33.560 --> 00:28:34.200
 In order...

00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:37.340
 That the love you have for me...

00:28:37.340 --> 00:28:38.200
 May be in them...

00:28:39.080 --> 00:28:40.200
 And that I myself...

00:28:41.300 --> 00:28:42.360
 Might be in them.

00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:46.359
 Now Jesus is praying...

00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:47.039
 Here isn't he?

00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:49.199
 That we might be one with each other.

00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:49.899
 Verse 21.

00:28:50.219 --> 00:28:50.679
 Right at the beginning.

00:28:51.579 --> 00:28:54.419
 In the same way that God is in the Son...

00:28:54.419 --> 00:28:55.979
 And the Son is in the Father.

00:28:56.859 --> 00:28:57.359
 In other words...

00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.859
 He wants the riches of our human relationships...

00:28:59.859 --> 00:29:00.859
 In the church...

00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:04.139
 To be like the relations of the Trinity.

00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:06.140
 So that we together...

00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:06.140


00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:06.700
 So that we together...

00:29:06.700 --> 00:29:08.320
 Will know the unity...

00:29:08.320 --> 00:29:09.140
 Or oneness...

00:29:09.140 --> 00:29:11.140
 That God knows...

00:29:11.660 --> 00:29:14.280
 In his Trinitarian-ness.

00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:16.380
 And that oneness...

00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:17.580
 At the end of verse 21...

00:29:17.580 --> 00:29:19.040
 Will then show the world...

00:29:19.040 --> 00:29:20.740
 Who Jesus is.

00:29:21.540 --> 00:29:23.140
 Who is this God...

00:29:23.140 --> 00:29:24.860
 That takes these people...

00:29:24.860 --> 00:29:25.980
 From all these different places...

00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:27.280
 With all these different backgrounds...

00:29:27.280 --> 00:29:29.200
 From all these different ethnicities...

00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:30.140
 All these different ages...

00:29:31.020 --> 00:29:32.460
 All these different backgrounds...

00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.019
 And he unites them together...

00:29:34.019 --> 00:29:35.700
 With a love...

00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:36.460
 And a bond.

00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:39.180
 What kind of God does that?

00:29:39.700 --> 00:29:41.579
 A Trinitarian God does that.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:43.759
 But there's more to it...

00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:44.380
 Even than that isn't there?

00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:45.960
 In verse 21 and 23...

00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:47.460
 It's not only that we might...

00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:48.900
 Sorry in 22 and 23...

00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:50.000
 It's not only that we might be...

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:51.059
 One with each other...

00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:51.620
 But...

00:29:51.620 --> 00:29:52.880
 Blow your mind...

00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:54.480
 We might be one with God.

00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:57.299
 That the Son...

00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:58.680
 By the Spirit...

00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:00.620
 Might dwell in us...

00:30:00.620 --> 00:30:02.160
 In the same way...

00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.600
 That the Father dwells in the Son...

00:30:04.600 --> 00:30:06.519
 So that we are in complete unity...

00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:08.180
 With each other...

00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:10.160
 And with God himself...

00:30:11.259 --> 00:30:11.940
 Now...

00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:12.860
 That's incredible isn't it?

00:30:12.980 --> 00:30:14.019
 Look down at verse 24...

00:30:14.019 --> 00:30:14.820
 Why is this so good?

00:30:15.220 --> 00:30:17.160
 Jesus wants us to be with him...

00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:19.160
 Because he wants us to see his glory...

00:30:19.940 --> 00:30:20.160
 Verse 24...

00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:21.840
 That was given to him...

00:30:21.840 --> 00:30:23.160
 In the eternal love of the Father...

00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:24.160
 For the Son...

00:30:24.700 --> 00:30:25.160
 See...

00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:26.720
 This is why this is so important...

00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:26.960
 Isn't it?

00:30:26.980 --> 00:30:28.000
 The doctrine of the Trinity...

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:29.160
 Is because Christian...

00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:30.160
 You are invited...

00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:31.160
 You are invited...

00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:33.160
 Into the relationships of the Trinity...

00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:34.120
 That...

00:30:34.120 --> 00:30:35.160
 That is our hope...

00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.160
 That is our...

00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:38.160
 Destination...

00:30:39.040 --> 00:30:40.960
 This is the eternal family...

00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:42.160
 Into which we have been adopted...

00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.600
 To know and begin to grapple with...

00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:48.600
 And understand the doctrine of the Trinity...

00:30:48.600 --> 00:30:49.900
 Is to get to know...

00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:52.019
 The family into which we have been adopted...

00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:53.160
 And will spend eternity...

00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.160
 These perfect...

00:30:55.860 --> 00:30:57.160
 Deeply satisfying...

00:30:57.560 --> 00:30:58.160
 Oneness relationships...

00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:00.160
 Will be ours...

00:31:00.600 --> 00:31:01.240
 Forever...

00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:01.820
 And ever...

00:31:01.820 --> 00:31:02.160
 And ever...

00:31:03.540 --> 00:31:05.660
 So that the Father is not the Son...

00:31:05.660 --> 00:31:07.160
 But loves the Son...

00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:08.160
 Matters to me...

00:31:08.840 --> 00:31:09.160
 Because...

00:31:10.600 --> 00:31:11.519
 That love...

00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:12.640
 Will be the love that...

00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:13.660
 We get to share...

00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:14.160
 I get to share...

00:31:15.080 --> 00:31:15.160
 Now...

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:16.160
 And eternally...

00:31:17.380 --> 00:31:18.160
 So look at verse 25...

00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:20.360
 And 26 again...

00:31:20.360 --> 00:31:22.160
 Notice that this enjoyment of the Trinity...

00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.160
 Starts now...

00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:24.320
 As we get to know God...

00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:25.259
 Righteous Father...

00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:26.800
 Though the world does not know you...

00:31:26.800 --> 00:31:28.160
 I know you...

00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:30.160
 And they know that you have sent me...

00:31:30.860 --> 00:31:33.160
 I have made you known to them...

00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:36.160
 And will continue to make you known...

00:31:36.820 --> 00:31:39.160
 In order that the love that you have for me...

00:31:39.700 --> 00:31:40.279
 May be in them...

00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.060
 And I myself may be in them...

00:31:42.060 --> 00:31:42.560
 In other words...

00:31:42.560 --> 00:31:45.160
 It's as we get to know...

00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:47.160
 The Father...

00:31:48.019 --> 00:31:49.500
 Through the Son...

00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:50.160
 By the Spirit...

00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.580
 That we get to be in Him...

00:31:53.580 --> 00:31:55.420
 And enjoy Him...

00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:55.580
 Right?

00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:57.160
 So...

00:31:58.259 --> 00:31:58.660
 This is...

00:31:58.660 --> 00:31:58.900
 I mean...

00:31:58.900 --> 00:32:00.480
 This is utterly mind-blowing...

00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:00.820
 Isn't it?

00:32:01.080 --> 00:32:01.240
 Right?

00:32:01.340 --> 00:32:02.300
 So that...

00:32:02.300 --> 00:32:03.580
 It is...

00:32:03.580 --> 00:32:05.500
 As I begin to grapple with...

00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:07.160
 And understand the Trinity...

00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:10.160
 That I am seeing where I'm going...

00:32:11.080 --> 00:32:13.279
 And seeing what God has called me to...

00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:16.160
 This relationship of eternal and perfect love...

00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:19.160
 Will be what we enjoy for all eternity...

00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:21.580
 I don't know whether you think that heaven's going to be really boring...

00:32:21.580 --> 00:32:21.700
 Right?

00:32:21.840 --> 00:32:22.320
 It is...

00:32:22.320 --> 00:32:22.580
 I mean...

00:32:22.580 --> 00:32:24.580
 It is definitely not going to be boring...

00:32:24.580 --> 00:32:26.580
 It will be...

00:32:26.580 --> 00:32:27.580
 Perfect...

00:32:27.580 --> 00:32:29.820
 Relationally perfect...

00:32:29.820 --> 00:32:31.580
 Between all of those who are there...

00:32:31.580 --> 00:32:34.580
 As we share in these eternal relations of the Trinity...

00:32:34.580 --> 00:32:36.580
 And delight in Him...

00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:40.000
 In a world remade by His power and His glory forever and ever and ever...

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.000


00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.000
 The best bit...

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:43.000
 About...

00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:44.000
 Heaven...

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:44.679
 Is that...

00:32:44.679 --> 00:32:45.339
 Is this bit...

00:32:45.339 --> 00:32:45.460
 Right?

00:32:45.819 --> 00:32:47.000
 That we're with...

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:48.379
 Our God...

00:32:48.379 --> 00:32:51.000
 Our Father, Son and Spirit...

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.220
 And dwelling with Him...

00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:53.000
 And Him in us...

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:55.000
 And us in Him...

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:57.000
 Forever and ever and ever...

00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:58.000
 Amen...

00:32:58.000 --> 00:32:59.000
 Amen...

00:32:59.000 --> 00:32:59.420
 Amen...

00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:00.420
 Great...

00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:01.700
 Let me close in prayer...

00:33:01.700 --> 00:33:02.420
 Let's...

00:33:02.420 --> 00:33:09.420
 Loving Heavenly Father...

00:33:09.420 --> 00:33:11.420
 It is just...

00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:13.420
 Utterly...

00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:15.420
 Mind-bendingly brilliant...

00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:20.560
 That this eternal loving relationship...

00:33:20.560 --> 00:33:21.420
 That you have enjoyed...

00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:23.740
 With your Son...

00:33:23.740 --> 00:33:24.420
 And the Spirit...

00:33:25.900 --> 00:33:26.420
 Would be...

00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:29.420
 Made available to us...

00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:31.420
 Through the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ...

00:33:32.500 --> 00:33:33.420
 That sinful...

00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:34.420
 Broken...

00:33:34.940 --> 00:33:36.420
 Weak people like us...

00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:39.420
 Would be so transformed by Christ's work...

00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:44.840
 That we would be invited to join in the perfect relations of the Trinity...

00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:45.839
 For all eternity...

00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:48.059
 For our joy...

00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:49.240
 And for your glory...

00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:49.839
 Forever and ever...

00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:57.099
 Our minds cannot even begin to scratch the surface of the wonder and the brilliance of that...

00:33:57.099 --> 00:33:58.839
 And so we just praise you...

00:33:59.399 --> 00:33:59.839
 And we say...

00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.199
 Heavenly Father...

00:34:01.199 --> 00:34:01.839
 Please...

00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:02.339
 We pray...

00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:03.099
 Come...

00:34:03.099 --> 00:34:04.199
 And send your Son...

00:34:04.199 --> 00:34:05.019
 The Lord Jesus...

00:34:05.019 --> 00:34:06.839
 That we might be with you...

00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:07.599
 Lord...

00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:07.939
 We...

00:34:07.939 --> 00:34:09.840
 We want to get to know you better...

00:34:10.579 --> 00:34:11.279
 And we...

00:34:11.279 --> 00:34:12.840
 We don't understand you fully...

00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:13.840
 We could never even...

00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:15.519
 Begin to...

00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:16.480
 Or claim to...

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:17.840
 But we want to know you truly...

00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:21.120
 And we want to use the best of our brains...

00:34:21.120 --> 00:34:22.840
 To understand you as much as we can...

00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:26.840
 So that we might glorify you as much as it's possible for us to do so...

00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:28.160
 Because we...

00:34:28.160 --> 00:34:28.840
 We long...

00:34:29.539 --> 00:34:30.840
 That others may see...

00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:33.200
 The wonder and the brilliance...

00:34:33.200 --> 00:34:34.880
 And the glory of your name...

00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:35.840
 As we live for your glory...

00:34:36.700 --> 00:34:37.940
 In Christ's name...

00:34:37.940 --> 00:34:38.700
 Amen...

00:34:38.700 --> 00:34:39.840
 Amen...

00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:45.840


00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:45.840


00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:45.840


00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:45.840


00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:45.840


00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:45.840


00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:45.840


00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:46.340
 To understand...

00:34:46.340 --> 00:34:46.340


00:34:46.340 --> 00:34:46.680
 To understand...

00:34:46.680 --> 00:34:46.960
 To understand...

00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:47.640
 To understand...

00:34:47.640 --> 00:34:48.019
 To understand...

00:34:48.019 --> 00:34:48.019


00:34:48.019 --> 00:34:48.600
 To understand...

00:34:48.600 --> 00:34:49.140
 To understand...

00:34:49.140 --> 00:34:49.760
 To understand...

00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:49.760


00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:49.760


00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:49.760


00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:50.500
 To understand...

00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:50.500


00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:51.460
 To understand...

00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:51.460


00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:51.460


00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:51.460


00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:51.460


00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:51.460


00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:52.300
 To understand...

00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:52.860
 To understand...

00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:53.940
 To understand...

00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940


00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:53.940