WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:15.300 So if you were with us last Sunday morning, so not this Sunday morning just gone, but the previous Sunday, we were looking at the beginning of Romans 13 where Paul outlines how we are to, or attitude we are to have to governing authorities. 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:26.260 So he starts Romans 13 verse 1, and Romans 13 is at the end of your handouts. It says, let everyone be subject to the governing authorities. That's his kind of headline. 00:00:26.260 --> 00:00:45.680 And that provides us with a neat step back into our series on the 1689 Baptist Confession, because it has a whole section entitled Civil Government, as the Baptists in 1689 talked about how we should relate to those in government and in authority over us. 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:58.659 Now it's worth saying both about Romans 13 and the 1689 Baptist Confession, that what they say about authority, they do not say from a privileged position or a position of influence or ease. 00:00:59.179 --> 00:01:08.000 If you were with us on that Sunday morning, you'll know that Romans 13 is written to the church in Rome, who are under the very beginnings of Nero's reign. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:17.040 And Nero was not a nice guy, and he was not elected through a vote of the people, but got there by various underhanded means. 00:01:17.579 --> 00:01:29.439 And the 1689 Baptist Confession, likewise, was only published after a long delay, because prior to the act of tolerance, Baptists weren't allowed to publish books or do various other things as well. 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:46.439 So one historian writes this about the time. So England's act of uniformity enacted on May the 19th, 1662, was a significant piece of legislation during the restoration period that aimed to establish religious conformity within the Church of England. 00:01:46.439 --> 00:02:01.439 So you might, if you know your history, Oliver Cromwell had started the kind of revolution, Charles II came back, and he brought in this act of conformity, which made a legal obligation for every church in the country to use the Book of Common Prayer. 00:02:02.579 --> 00:02:13.759 So it says here, following the English interregnum, which allowed for a degree of religious liberty under Oliver Cromwell, the return of Charles II brought about a desire for uniformity in worship. 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:20.539 The act mandated that all ministers accept the revised Book of Common Prayer and publicly affirm their adherence to it. 00:02:21.079 --> 00:02:30.299 Failure to comply resulted in excommunication and a loss of positions, leading to the expulsion of over a thousand ministers who opposed its strict requirements. 00:02:31.019 --> 00:02:38.840 This period was marked by increased persecution and imprisonment of those who refused to conform, resulting in the creation of a rich body of dissenting literature. 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:49.020 The act of uniformity laid the groundwork for future conflicts regarding religious freedom, which would not be fully addressed until the act of toleration in 1689. 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:51.740 Now, that history may not interest you. 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.360 It kind of interests me, but maybe not you. 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:59.879 But it means that the people who wrote the 1689 Confession, many of them had been in prison, 00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:06.079 and were in prison for what they thought about the place of the church and its relationship to the government and those kind of things. 00:03:06.500 --> 00:03:13.060 So these people are not writing because they're the people in authority, just like Paul was not writing about being in authority. 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:20.599 If you are interested, the ministers objected from their churches for their failure to conform to this act of parliament, 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:25.680 where they weren't allowed to be within five miles of the place that they used to minister. 00:03:27.020 --> 00:03:33.020 So they weren't, not only that they weren't allowed to go back into the church, but they weren't allowed to go within a five mile radius. 00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:38.539 And so that was the idea that they weren't then allowed to gather their churches again in any other, in any other way. 00:03:38.539 --> 00:03:41.879 And so many of them just disobeyed that law. 00:03:42.019 --> 00:03:46.899 And so the prisons were apparently full of Baptist ministers at the time. 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:51.399 So if anyone had a reason to be anti-authority, it was these guys, but they weren't. 00:03:51.519 --> 00:03:52.719 They were otherwise convinced. 00:03:53.359 --> 00:03:54.539 So let's read what they wrote. 00:03:54.539 --> 00:04:01.039 Chapter 24 of the 1689 Baptist Confession, Civil Government, starts paragraph one. 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.539 God, the Supreme Lord and King of the whole world, 00:04:05.539 --> 00:04:12.819 has ordained civil authorities to be under him and over the people for his own glory and the public good. 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:21.519 For this purpose, he has armed them with the power of the sword to defend and encourage those who do good and to punish evil doers. 00:04:22.779 --> 00:04:23.539 Paragraph two. 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:30.360 Christians may lawfully accept and carry out the duties of public office when called to do so. 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:39.800 In performing their office, they must especially maintain justice and peace according to the wholesome laws of each kingdom or other political entity. 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:48.860 To carry out these duties, they are authorized now under the New Testament to wage war in just and necessary situations. 00:04:48.860 --> 00:04:50.759 Paragraph three. 00:04:50.759 --> 00:05:00.879 Because civil authorities are established by God for the purposes stated, we should submit in the Lord to them in everything lawful that they require. 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:06.420 We should submit not only for fear of punishment, but also for sake of conscience. 00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:11.600 We ought to make requests and prayers for kings and everyone in authority so that under their rule, 00:05:11.980 --> 00:05:17.139 we may live a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and honesty. 00:05:17.139 --> 00:05:24.300 Now, I know because we've talked about this on a number of Sunday evenings that some of that is quite dense, right? 00:05:24.379 --> 00:05:26.139 And you might be in a bit of a fog after me reading it. 00:05:26.620 --> 00:05:30.919 But perhaps you notice that each paragraph is dealing with a slightly different area of authority. 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:34.819 So the first one is talking about the principle of authority. 00:05:35.139 --> 00:05:42.599 The second is talking about a Christian carrying out authority or taking authority to themselves or an office that carries authority. 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:44.879 And the third is then about how we relate. 00:05:45.100 --> 00:05:48.200 And so we're just going to deal with it around those paragraphs. 00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:50.000 So firstly, the principle of authority. 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:56.400 Now, in a way, this is what we were spending most of our time on on that Sunday morning looking at Romans 13. 00:05:56.399 --> 00:06:09.060 The principle is that God, the God of all authority, to whom all authority belongs, delegates his authority to others that they might rule on his behalf in a particular area. 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:18.479 And God promises to hold those rulers to account for the manner in which they've used his authority because it was always his and it still belongs to him. 00:06:19.219 --> 00:06:24.719 In this paragraph, you might see that the governing authorities have the power of the sword. 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:30.700 They are armed by God to punish evil and to encourage good. 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.820 And so, as we saw last week, it's not that authority is bad. 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.000 Authority is good. 00:06:38.280 --> 00:06:42.420 And it is there to punish evil and to encourage good. 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:48.100 It's interesting as well to note that authority is not imposed as a result of the fall. 00:06:48.820 --> 00:06:51.580 As if in glory, there's going to be no authority structures. 00:06:51.580 --> 00:06:52.060 Right. 00:06:52.060 --> 00:06:56.339 Rather, authority from God delegated to others is how good is encouraged. 00:06:56.740 --> 00:06:58.399 And that's how it was always meant to be. 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:02.220 And it now also assumes this role of punishing evil. 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:08.759 Now, I think as well as being the civil authorities in view, it goes with other authorities, too, don't we? 00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:10.100 We're thinking about that last week. 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.019 Not all authorities carry the sword. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:14.660 So not all authority is the authority to command. 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.459 Some authority is the authority to influence. 00:07:17.459 --> 00:07:24.899 So if you think about the authority of a parent over a child, that changes in some ways from command. 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:25.899 Put on your shoes. 00:07:25.979 --> 00:07:28.620 We're going out to the authority of influence. 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:30.359 Hey, would you like to come out? 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:35.740 We're going to go out now if you'd like to come as you as your children get as your children get older. 00:07:35.740 --> 00:07:42.460 And here, this is the authority of command that the government have because they carry the sword to punish disobedience. 00:07:42.459 --> 00:07:48.799 One thing that we didn't get into last week, though, which is worth picking up here, is the idea that authority is linked to an office. 00:07:49.799 --> 00:07:57.839 So notice that in the 1689 confession and in Romans 13, authority is not so much invested in a particular individual because of who they are, 00:07:58.039 --> 00:08:01.819 but rather because of the office that they hold for a season. 00:08:02.500 --> 00:08:04.319 The Lord has ordained the civil authorities. 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:09.339 It's an important distinction because authority goes wrong when we mess this up. 00:08:09.939 --> 00:08:10.680 You imagine, right? 00:08:10.779 --> 00:08:19.000 Okay, so imagine that you're driving home from church tonight and a car pulls in front of you and they get out of the car and they say, 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:22.860 listen, you wait there while all these other cars go past. 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:23.899 You know, well, hang on a minute. 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:24.899 Who are you? 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:28.319 You know, you just, you've literally just obstructed my right of way. 00:08:28.459 --> 00:08:30.519 And then they're telling me to let all these other people pass. 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:31.360 Who are you to do that? 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:41.740 But if the same car, the same thing that happened, but the car was a police car and the person getting out of the car was a police officer and they told you to do that, that would be different. 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:46.320 Even if the individual who is doing it was exactly the same person in both instances. 00:08:46.700 --> 00:08:52.399 It's because of the office that they have and it's the office that carries the authority, not the individual. 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:57.039 And that's made clear in those three paragraphs in the confession as well. 00:08:57.500 --> 00:08:59.519 So that is the office that carries the authority. 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:01.139 That's really important, isn't it? 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:03.080 You can see how that works in different areas. 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:07.460 Tony Blair this week wrote his essay being very critical of the government. 00:09:08.179 --> 00:09:10.899 But his essay carries no authority, does it? 00:09:11.379 --> 00:09:12.840 Because he's no longer the prime minister. 00:09:13.220 --> 00:09:20.960 So he can think what he likes, but he no longer has any authority because the authority is invested in the office, not in the individual. 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.700 And this means, doesn't it, that authority belongs to God. 00:09:25.780 --> 00:09:26.360 It's his idea. 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.980 He stands behind it and it still belongs to him and is exercised under his supreme authority. 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:37.060 One way that the Westminster Confession teases this out. 00:09:37.139 --> 00:09:42.580 So if you know, the 1689 Baptist Confession is based on the Westminster Confession of Faith. 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:49.920 The Westminster Confession of Faith is both written as a confession and then the larger and shorter catechism which were designed to teach it. 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:57.000 And in the larger catechism of the Westminster Confession of Faith, it teaches you authority on the basis of the fifth commandment. 00:09:57.179 --> 00:09:58.240 What is the fifth commandment? 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.940 Honor your father and mother. 00:10:02.539 --> 00:10:03.299 Well done, Anna. 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:06.159 You always were my favorite daughter. 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:08.960 Yeah. 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:11.360 And so what is the fifth commandment? 00:10:11.460 --> 00:10:22.019 It is honor thy father and thy mother that in the days may be long on the land that the Lord thy God giveth thee, as it says in the confession. 00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:26.120 Then question 124 in the larger catechism says this. 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:30.080 Who are meant by father and mother in the fifth commandment? 00:10:30.539 --> 00:10:31.860 And this is where it's surprising. 00:10:32.179 --> 00:10:32.700 Look at the answer. 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:33.399 It's there on your handout. 00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:34.580 The answer is given is this. 00:10:35.139 --> 00:10:52.460 By father and mother in the fifth commandment are meant not only natural parents, but all superiors in age and gifts and especially such as by God's ordinance are over us in place of authority, whether in family, church or commonwealth. 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:59.360 It then talks about how superiors are to love and serve and be tender towards their inferiors like a parent to a child. 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:01.379 We'll have a look at that in a moment. 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:02.879 And it then says this. 00:11:03.060 --> 00:11:06.840 What is the honor that inferiors owe to their superiors? 00:11:06.940 --> 00:11:08.600 We don't like those words, do we? 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:10.220 But that's how it puts it. 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:17.100 The honor which inferiors owe to their superiors is all due reverence in heart, word and behavior. 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:19.420 Prayer and thanksgiving for them. 00:11:19.820 --> 00:11:21.740 Imitation of their virtues and graces. 00:11:22.580 --> 00:11:25.220 Willing obedience to their lawful commands and counsels. 00:11:26.040 --> 00:11:27.720 Due submission to their corrections. 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:35.860 Fidelity to defense and maintenance of their persons and authority according to their several ranks and the nature of their places. 00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:42.139 Bearing with their infirmities and covering them in love so that they may be an honor to them and their government. 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.940 What are the sins of inferiors against their superiors? 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:46.720 It says next. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:52.180 The sins of inferiors against their superiors are all neglect of the duties required toward them. 00:11:52.660 --> 00:12:01.180 Envying at, contempt of and rebellion against their persons and places in their lawful counsels, commands and corrections. 00:12:01.899 --> 00:12:10.139 Cursing, mocking and all such refractory and scandalous carriage as proves their shame and dishonor to them and their government. 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:12.660 That's interesting, isn't it? 00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:17.719 That it would place that under the fifth commandment that we are to submit not only to our fathers and our mothers. 00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:21.360 But also to all authority structures instituted by the Lord. 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:26.339 I want you with the person next to you or persons next to you to think, do you agree with that? 00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:33.779 Do you think obedience to the fifth commandment includes how you treat your boss at work or your teacher or those in government or those in law enforcement? 00:12:34.659 --> 00:12:36.039 You can answer why or why not. 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.639 And then why is that so unpopular, do you think? 00:12:39.699 --> 00:12:40.360 Go for it. 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:42.399 Have a conversation with the person next to you about it. 00:12:42.659 --> 00:12:42.740 Okay. 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:51.719 Okay. 00:12:53.860 --> 00:12:55.539 Sorry to interrupt your conversations. 00:12:57.879 --> 00:12:59.439 What are your thoughts? 00:13:00.819 --> 00:13:07.519 What are our thoughts on whether or not we think that is a right use of the commandment? 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.079 I mean, I wish it wasn't. 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:13.819 You wish it wasn't, right. 00:13:14.199 --> 00:13:16.120 So who's going to help Leila out to say it's not? 00:13:16.220 --> 00:13:17.059 That's not what it means. 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.480 She said she wishes it wasn't because she doesn't like the idea. 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:28.399 I think the problem is in the word meant because they're assuming that that is what God means when you gave that command. 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:29.019 Right. 00:13:29.019 --> 00:13:37.220 If you say there is an analogy, like for example, with parents and children, it differs as they get older. 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:38.000 Yes. 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.679 But it doesn't differ in terms of honouring you half an other. 00:13:42.220 --> 00:13:42.620 Right. 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.220 And so likewise, I mean, you've got church authority. 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:47.500 Church is voluntary. 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:48.679 Yes. 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:49.779 Yes. 00:13:49.779 --> 00:13:58.079 And it doesn't alter with age unless you say somebody gets older and they have more respect and more sensible. 00:13:58.539 --> 00:13:58.839 Okay. 00:13:59.240 --> 00:13:59.679 They may not. 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:06.799 But that's not, they're not starting off like being a child that has to have commands. 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:07.240 Yes. 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:17.419 So for the sake of those on Zoom, we're helpfully distinguishing between meaning and intent. 00:14:17.419 --> 00:14:22.100 So just whether that's exactly what is intended or whether that is an inference from. 00:14:22.539 --> 00:14:22.639 Yeah. 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:29.840 And so, and even in the relationship to our mother and father changes over time, given our age. 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:30.120 Yeah. 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:35.680 Right. 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:38.240 Right. 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:42.240 Right. 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.460 There's quite a lot of different concepts coming out. 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:05.019 So we need to kind of try and distinguish. 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:05.539 No, no, no. 00:15:05.560 --> 00:15:05.820 It's good. 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:06.139 It's good. 00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:20.879 So whether or not you base the laws of a country on the Ten Commandments, it might be one thing to say that is, those things are good, but you're not creating a Christian nation by implementing those laws. 00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:23.840 And implementing God's punishments. 00:15:24.019 --> 00:15:24.039 No. 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:25.419 No, exactly. 00:15:25.419 --> 00:15:25.479 Exactly. 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:27.159 And I think it's interesting. 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:30.939 And we're going to come on and talk about this a little bit in a moment. 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:40.319 But I think theologians have over the years quite helpfully distinguished between different uses of the law now that we're no longer under the law in an Old Testament sense. 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:46.299 So one being that it is a helpful tool to guide governments to teach us what's right and wrong. 00:15:46.299 --> 00:15:53.240 So it should be wrong to murder people in any country. 00:15:53.359 --> 00:15:55.779 That's, you know, the protection of life is really important. 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.959 You know, a country should uphold marriage. 00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:02.240 That's a good thing for us to uphold. 00:16:02.359 --> 00:16:04.219 It's given by God in creation. 00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:10.240 But that, again, doesn't mean that we're recreating the nation of Israel or that we're enacting the punishments. 00:16:10.680 --> 00:16:19.220 And I think if you're reading the Bible in the ages in which it comes, as we were thinking this morning, that should be, you should be able to distinguish that. 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:23.580 The second use of the law that it talks about is convicting people of sin. 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.200 You know, you read the law and go, OK, so this is what it says. 00:16:27.300 --> 00:16:28.019 I'm a sinner. 00:16:28.540 --> 00:16:30.340 I deserve to be condemned by this God. 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:31.720 This is what holiness is. 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:41.000 And then the third would be to teach us about holiness, to teach us what it means to live to please the Lord, which is how I think Jesus is using it in Sermon on the Mount. 00:16:43.060 --> 00:16:44.240 Anyone else? 00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:53.220 Sorry, so this is just not a conversation just between one person and me, but anybody else want to talk about the fifth commandment and whether we thought that was a right use of it or not? 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:57.019 Just wait one minute, Charles. 00:16:57.019 --> 00:16:57.300 Yes. 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:02.720 Yes. 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:09.000 I guess a key part of what it comes down to Paul saying that if no, he's not going to go to God. 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:09.559 Yes. 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:16.180 So then if we're, I may disagree, the character is still not thinking we would follow the third place. 00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:16.539 Yeah. 00:17:16.539 --> 00:17:20.500 But if God has the point of that, then we're rebelling against. 00:17:21.080 --> 00:17:22.420 It's rebelling against God. 00:17:22.820 --> 00:17:23.039 Yeah. 00:17:23.380 --> 00:17:26.420 And it's also, you can see how it's not helpful. 00:17:26.660 --> 00:17:26.900 Yeah. 00:17:27.080 --> 00:17:31.180 You know, it's not helpful to rebel against the office and respect the position of promise. 00:17:31.340 --> 00:17:31.539 Yeah. 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:32.080 Yeah. 00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:33.640 Yes, so that's helpful. 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:35.480 We can see how God has put those out. 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:44.819 And so I think you can see a similarity between the principle of the fifth commandment and the principle going on in Romans 13. 00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:46.440 There is a parallel there. 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:46.839 Thanks, Joey. 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:48.140 Charleston, what were you going to say? 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:48.380 Sorry. 00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:49.380 Yeah. 00:18:05.380 --> 00:18:05.860 Yeah. 00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:08.100 Yes. 00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:11.340 Yes, in Titus 2. 00:18:11.580 --> 00:18:11.780 Yeah. 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.440 So you're talking about how you treat older men and older women in Titus 2. 00:18:15.540 --> 00:18:16.480 You treat them with respect. 00:18:16.800 --> 00:18:16.900 Yeah. 00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:17.680 Yeah. 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:20.080 Why do we think this is so unpopular? 00:18:20.260 --> 00:18:21.160 Did anyone talk about that? 00:18:26.620 --> 00:18:27.120 Go on. 00:18:27.780 --> 00:18:34.400 We did because we usually think as, yeah, as father and mother. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:44.040 But then we don't think, for example, about our bosses or authorities that we, I'm not going to like generalize and say like everybody does it. 00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:46.660 But like we usually listen in this case. 00:18:46.660 --> 00:18:48.060 Because I don't like my boss. 00:18:48.060 --> 00:18:49.420 I don't have a good relationship with them. 00:18:49.420 --> 00:18:55.860 So like it's important to apply this also in our work area. 00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:56.459 Yeah. 00:18:56.459 --> 00:18:56.459 00:18:56.459 --> 00:19:06.459 And I was thinking that like, I think that good example someone very wise gave me some years ago was doing everything for God. 00:19:06.460 --> 00:19:06.900 Great. 00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:06.900 00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:11.420 It's important for the person who wanted me to have a good relationship with him. 00:19:12.259 --> 00:19:13.180 Do it for God. 00:19:13.180 --> 00:19:20.380 great yes so that's thank you that's really helpful it's um it's colossians isn't it where 00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:25.200 paul says whatever you do whether in word or deed you do it all for the glory of god and i think um 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:29.120 yeah and whatever you do whether in word or deed do it all in the name of the lord jesus giving 00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:34.320 thanks to god the father through him that really helps doesn't it especially when your boss is 00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:41.299 perhaps a difficult person and then yeah my my deference to them is really my deference to the 00:19:41.299 --> 00:19:53.240 lord um and so that and that helps me yes so the question about slavery let's park that for a 00:19:53.240 --> 00:20:00.659 moment um yeah i think yeah we can park that we've talked about that before but yeah let's move on uh 00:20:00.659 --> 00:20:07.599 and talk about the christian in authority i'm not sure that if we were including or writing the 1689 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.899 confession ourselves so that we perhaps include this but it is there in the westminster confession 00:20:11.899 --> 00:20:17.819 too that it is okay for christians to carry out the duties of public office when called to do so 00:20:17.819 --> 00:20:25.399 and that then how they do it should be informed by their christian faith so not only should our 00:20:25.399 --> 00:20:31.719 christian faith shape how we submit to authority it should also shape how we exercise the authority 00:20:31.719 --> 00:20:36.859 that god has given us now you can imagine at the time this is quite revolutionary but the thinking was 00:20:36.859 --> 00:20:42.399 that it was good both for christians to hold these positions but also to be christian in the way they 00:20:42.399 --> 00:20:47.699 went about them so it's okay for a christian to be involved in party politics or for a christian to be 00:20:47.699 --> 00:20:54.799 in the army and a christian to take up arms and fight the westminster larger catechism included this 00:20:54.799 --> 00:21:01.179 about how to go about holding a superior office what is required of superiors towards their inferiors 00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:08.620 it is required of superiors according to that power that they receive from god and that relation wherein 00:21:08.620 --> 00:21:15.400 they stand to love pray for and bless their inferiors to instruct counsel and admonish them 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:23.019 countenancing commending and rewarding such as do well and discountenancing imagine going into a 00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:27.740 conversation i am discountenancing you now if you're a teacher you could try that tomorrow at school 00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:34.799 reproving and chastising such as do ill protecting and providing for them in all things necessary for 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:41.359 soul and body and by grave wise holy and exemplary carriage to proceed to procure glory to god 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:46.420 honor to themselves and so to preserve that authority which god hath put upon them 00:21:46.420 --> 00:21:52.460 in other words you are to exercise your authority in such a way which is good for the people under you 00:21:52.460 --> 00:21:59.319 so that they might flourish that they might do well authority is not given to to squash people but to 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.779 provide an environment in which they will flourish and do well and maybe you've experienced that 00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:09.799 maybe you've experienced a boss like that or a parent like that or someone at school like that who has 00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:15.380 enabled you to flourish because they exercise their authority in a way that enabled you to do well 00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:21.660 what are the sins of superiors the sins of superiors are besides the neglect of their duties required of 00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:27.380 them and we we talked about that didn't we on sunday that actually uh a kind of neglect of your 00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:32.820 authority or uh what would it be called oh my mind has just got black what you call it when you don't 00:22:32.820 --> 00:22:40.560 exercise your authority sorry not yeah abdicating your authority yes abdicating your responsibility thank you 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:47.220 yeah um that is wrong um you have been given authority so you need to use that so besides the 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:54.759 neglect of the duties required of them an inordinate seeking of themselves their own glory ease profit or 00:22:54.759 --> 00:23:03.200 pleasure commanding things unlawful or not in the power of inferiors to perform counseling encouraging 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:10.039 or favoring them in a way in that which is evil dissuading discouraging or discounting them in that which 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:17.339 is good correcting them unduly and julie carelessly exposing or leaving them to wrong temptation and 00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:22.639 danger provoking them to wrath or in any way dishonoring themselves or lessening their authority 00:23:22.639 --> 00:23:30.899 by an unjust indiscreet rigorous or remiss behavior we could i mean you could spend ages on picking all of 00:23:30.899 --> 00:23:36.000 this couldn't you but it is so helpful isn't it and you can see where authority goes wrong because of 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:42.740 those sorts of things can't you so there's like the bias towards people at favoring them in that which 00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:49.539 is evil or commanding things not only that are unlawful but are impossible for them to perform 00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:56.920 so you know you might have had this in with a boss or maybe a teacher at school who asks you to do 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:02.539 something which is way beyond what you are capable of doing either because of the time or the capacity that 00:24:02.539 --> 00:24:08.279 you might have that is an unjust use of their authority to demand that you do something like 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:15.299 that and so if you're in authority don't do that now it's interesting isn't it then if if it's okay 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:20.720 for christians to hold positions of authority and maybe you hold one and it's even right for christians 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:26.700 to hold positions of authority in civic government then really we should perhaps touch upon christian 00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:32.480 nationalism and i know that's a really controversial and and hot topic at the moment and how much should 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:39.480 christian values shape a nation and does that make you a christian country now notice how these 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:45.759 instructions tiptoe through that minefield on the one hand it is good for the authorities of a nation to 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:52.600 be shaped around christian values right justice peace integrity are good for everyone and you you 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:57.779 actually can't pretend to have those things without a good god you know don't you that actually that 00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:06.679 whole idea of of human inalienable human rights is really difficult if you don't have a good god who made 00:25:06.679 --> 00:25:13.359 humanity right the only way that you can argue for human dignity is if that dignity is assigned to humanity 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:23.299 by a good god who made us so it is good isn't it for us to assign value to humans because god does 00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:29.240 but still we mustn't think that by holding high office by a christian holding high office that we're 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:36.219 somehow going to build the kingdom of god as if we can build it with a sword we can't can we and the 00:25:36.219 --> 00:25:43.079 country does not become christian in some way by christians holding high office now here it's worth 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:47.000 noticing i think it's worth noticing you can decide for yourself whether you thought it was 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:53.359 but there is a distinction then between the baptist confession in 1689 and the westminster confession of 00:25:53.359 --> 00:26:00.779 faith the westminster confession of faith written by the westminster divines on the command of parliament 00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:07.519 the baptist confession written by non-conformists who were really largely just expelled because of their 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:12.480 unwillingness to submit to parliaments or to the king's instruction that they should submit to the book of 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:19.240 common prayer so here the westminster confession has an extra paragraph and in that extra paragraph it 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:27.279 says that the government should have authority over the doctrine of the church i know shock horror and the 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:34.920 1689 baptist confession does not have that paragraph and it's interesting it is a strategic deletion 00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:39.700 from the confession and robert strivens who's written a book on the confession says this the 00:26:39.700 --> 00:26:47.180 omission of any such statement in the 1689 confession reflects the early realization by baptists 00:26:47.180 --> 00:26:54.240 that under the new testament church and state are to be separate each has its own sphere of operation 00:26:54.240 --> 00:27:00.519 and one is not to encroach upon the other questions of doctrine and church practice are for the church to 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:06.299 regulate not the state just as the church is not to tell the government how to run the economy or defend its 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:12.519 territory so the civil authorities have no right to dictate to the church how to organize its meetings 00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:19.659 or what to teach we touched on that didn't we a few weeks ago that the church is given the great commission 00:27:19.659 --> 00:27:26.559 and are given the keys to the kingdom to show what is real true belief and the state is given the sword 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:32.039 and really christians are to pray that the state does their job so that they can do their job of making 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:37.319 disciples you don't pray that the government would make disciples of all nations you pray that the 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.899 church would do that and the government would allow the freedom to do that it's the separation of the 00:27:41.899 --> 00:27:48.259 church and the state so that brings me to an interesting set of questions for you to discuss 00:27:48.259 --> 00:27:53.940 with the person next to you so if you're in government as a christian would it be right or wrong for you 00:27:53.940 --> 00:28:01.619 to seek to make abortion a criminal offense to enforce shops to close on a sunday to make a law like 00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:06.659 switzerland where you are neutral in all wars to criminalize the worship of gods other than the 00:28:06.659 --> 00:28:11.179 god of the bible have a think with the person next to you about what you think about that 00:28:11.179 --> 00:28:15.119 yes or a no on each of those 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:27.119 okay um let me interrupt your conversations 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:37.519 i should um i should preface this discussion by saying that um we are we are entering into areas 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:43.119 over which it's we're free to disagree okay and we're free to think aloud so please don't 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:49.479 judge one another by whatever answers are given because it's it's important that is a process of 00:28:49.479 --> 00:28:55.199 learning we are allowed to say what we're thinking right without fear that someone's going to slam us 00:28:55.199 --> 00:29:00.199 down or judge us as a result say um and i realize that some of these issues are controversial and 00:29:00.199 --> 00:29:08.779 difficult so um i wanted to say that um so that first say yes anyone want to say what they thought 00:29:08.779 --> 00:29:09.460 charleston 00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:29.720 okay so let's deal with that last one first say number four 00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:37.180 to criminal it's good that the police are going past as we're talking about this isn't it 00:29:37.180 --> 00:29:41.160 to uh they're just they're just going to arrest some people for worshiping a different god 00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:47.259 um is it right is it right to criminalize the worship of gods other than the god of the bible 00:29:47.259 --> 00:29:52.860 do you think if you were in high office as a christian that that would be one of the things that 00:29:52.859 --> 00:30:00.719 you were instructed to do yes or no that's it it depends on the it depends on god yes okay so that 00:30:00.719 --> 00:30:04.379 is really interesting thank you that's a really helpful point it depends what is involved in the 00:30:04.379 --> 00:30:11.000 worship of that god so if the worship of that god involved child sacrifice you would criminalize it 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:19.179 yes absolutely yes but it is the sacrifice that's criminalized it's the it's the act of worship that 00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:22.060 involves uh the loss of life 00:30:22.060 --> 00:30:27.420 say again sorry 00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:38.960 yes so i think okay i'll put out there what i think then you don't have to say what you think 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:43.900 so i think this is beyond the remit of a government because i don't think that's what governing 00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:51.980 authorities are put there in the bible for so i i i think for for a government to criminalize the 00:30:51.980 --> 00:30:58.860 worship of a god given the exception that we had down here which is really helpful unless that act 00:30:58.860 --> 00:31:04.160 of worship involved the loss of life or something uh criminal or some adulterous act or something like 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:13.820 that then you uh then really the freedom to worship um should be granted right because you know don't you 00:31:13.819 --> 00:31:17.960 that by criminalizing the worship of other gods other than the god of the bible you're not making 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:23.919 christians because you cannot make christians like that it's only a work of the spirit that can make 00:31:23.919 --> 00:31:24.439 christians 00:31:24.439 --> 00:31:34.379 yes in actual fact you might be doing more harm than good yes yeah definitely okay um make a law like 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:36.220 switzerland where you are neutral in all wars 00:31:36.220 --> 00:31:45.520 no okay yeah uh enforce shops to close on a sunday 00:31:45.520 --> 00:31:50.800 no interesting um do you think it would be 00:31:50.800 --> 00:31:55.500 good for a country to all have a day when everybody stopped working 00:31:55.500 --> 00:32:09.720 yes enforcing it okay because i guess the question i have yes if we're going to sort of protect life and that's the office of the government 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:18.220 protecting reps is right would like as christian would i recommend that you take us out today yeah yeah 00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:22.420 would i recommend the close office i think yeah yeah i don't know if you can enforce that 00:32:22.420 --> 00:32:22.920 yeah 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:32.900 okay so it depends what you mean by enforcement yeah okay yeah so you would be so we have things like working time directives don't we 00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:38.079 where we put limits on the amount that employers are allowed to ask their employees to work 00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:43.220 um but you wouldn't suggest that we all had the same dale 00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:47.240 i would suggest it i would have passed when we are 00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:48.440 huh 00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:55.839 we need things running when we're off yes so yes this would apply unless you're a doctor or a nurse or 00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:02.279 my barista yeah um whatever yeah right okay interesting yeah it's worth i mean it's it's worth 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:06.620 thinking about isn't it because i think that's where you see a massive cultural change over the last 50 years or so 00:33:06.620 --> 00:33:11.500 in the uk uh seek to make abortion a criminal offense i realize this is the 00:33:11.500 --> 00:33:19.140 ethically complex one and most difficult one um i think at a very basic level 00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:25.640 the government's responsibility is to protect life that's that's why it's there that's why it's 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:30.779 that's why it's given and so i think what immediately comes to our mind when we think about this is oh well 00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:35.039 what about this case where the mother's life is in danger or what about this case where they might 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:40.539 uh do themselves harm actually suspending those arguments and putting those to one side for a 00:33:40.539 --> 00:33:48.819 moment you you have to say that at a very basic level uh contemporary cultures speed with which and 00:33:48.819 --> 00:33:56.599 ease with which we kill the unborn child is a failure of the government to protect life at a very basic 00:33:56.599 --> 00:34:04.679 level and it's the same with euthanasia isn't it as well it's this uh idea that uh when somebody is 00:34:04.679 --> 00:34:09.619 no longer productive in the way that i think they should be that therefore they should be allowed to 00:34:09.619 --> 00:34:16.400 choose to end their life or others should be allowed to end it um for them um i think we don't realize 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:24.079 how vulnerable something like euthanasia would make lots of elderly people um did we revisit them yes 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:26.400 um i have a question about 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:33.280 i feel like i agree that people don't read about how fast 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:36.880 how abnormal it is 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.559 yeah 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:44.960 but should we also be thinking about how many lives 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:48.240 right 00:34:48.240 --> 00:35:02.000 okay 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:08.380 see there are other yes so i'm just going to describe it in the answer to a question so i think 00:35:08.380 --> 00:35:14.360 it's right to say on that there are there are other things that a government that was positive about 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:24.120 protecting life could do to help with the unwanted pregnancy situations in there so like contraception 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:32.599 and like adoption um and those sorts of things yeah so i agree with you um but that is a government 00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:38.360 that's taken seriously the idea to protect life isn't it and uh to set those conditions we need to we 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:42.360 need to keep moving sorry go on you disagree 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:48.360 and i agree that it's important right but i disagree about the approach and banning 00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:52.120 okay i think firstly um you've got to think about 00:35:52.120 --> 00:35:54.120 right there's a lot of people who can do good 00:35:54.119 --> 00:36:03.880 yes 00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:03.880 00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.880 yes 00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:21.640 yes 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:23.639 yes 00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:23.639 00:36:51.639 --> 00:37:21.639 so that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one that's the one 00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:29.500 think that the New Testament demands that either. I do think, though, you should allow people the 00:37:29.500 --> 00:37:35.039 freedom of conscience about whether personally to be involved in that. So I think you'd need to be 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:39.799 very careful about conscription to the army. Yeah, but that's a slightly different issue. 00:37:40.659 --> 00:37:45.940 We're going to keep moving because it's nearly half of seven. Relating to authority. Basically, 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:51.239 in this last paragraph, the confession pretty much quotes Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2. So 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:57.399 we're not going to go through it in great detail. But we should submit to all lawful demands from 00:37:57.399 --> 00:38:01.839 those put in authority over us, and we should pray for them, seeking, as we were saying, to lead a 00:38:01.839 --> 00:38:07.259 quiet and peaceful life where we can get on with the Great Commission. Again, it's interesting that 00:38:07.259 --> 00:38:11.659 these words were written by people who'd been put in prison for disobeying the authorities, isn't it? 00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:17.059 So they're not saying don't ever disobey authorities. When authority strays into an area over which they 00:38:17.059 --> 00:38:21.779 have no right to rule, they are overreaching the authority that God has given to them, demanding 00:38:21.779 --> 00:38:27.860 that a Baptist church stop preaching while we'll disobey that law, and we'll get put in prison for it. 00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:33.559 But they still thought that obedience to authority mattered. We're going to skip the last in-groups 00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:39.380 session about where there might be areas where it's important to be prepared to disobey authorities. 00:38:39.380 --> 00:38:44.519 But you might want to think, if my workplace demanded that I was not allowed to talk about 00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:51.460 being a Christian, would I obey it? Or would I disobey it? If my workplace demanded that I 00:38:51.460 --> 00:38:57.960 was unable to express my Christian faith in other ways, or talk about it, or take Sundays off, 00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:03.420 then would I obey or would I disobey? And those kind of things. You might want to think about that. 00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:08.980 You might also want to think about why we find it so easy to rebel in some things, like speed limits, 00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:12.860 and hard to rebel in areas that really matter, like standing up for the rights of the unborn 00:39:12.860 --> 00:39:17.360 child. You might want to think about that as you go to bed tonight or something. 00:39:18.340 --> 00:39:22.260 But what I'm going to suggest is that in those little groups that you're in, that we pray, 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:26.139 and that we pray for one another. This is our prayer, isn't it, in this? It's not just in the 00:39:26.139 --> 00:39:32.099 land of theory. This is our prayer, that those in authority would enable us to live quiet, 00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:37.079 godly lives, where we share the good news of the Lord Jesus with others, and that our submission 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:42.460 and prayerfulness for those in authority would lead to fruitfulness for our church and our witness. 00:39:42.619 --> 00:39:46.139 So pray for that with those around you for a few minutes, and then I'll close in prayer. 00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:56.900 Okay, let me close in prayer for us in a couple of moments. 00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:16.139 Heavenly Father, we are very conscious that we owe a lot to men and women down through the years 00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:22.659 who have really, really thought about and understood authority and how it's to be used. 00:40:23.860 --> 00:40:30.719 We owe a lot to them because we enjoy so much freedom here tonight because of the sacrifices that 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:37.859 they have made. And Lord, we do not want to take those things for granted. We don't want to be 00:40:37.859 --> 00:40:46.459 thoughtless about what it means to be under authority or in authority. And nor do we want to pretend like 00:40:46.459 --> 00:40:54.480 your word has nothing to say to how a country should be run or how authority should be submitted to 00:40:54.480 --> 00:41:02.900 or exercised. And we recognize that we may well find ourselves in years ahead and in times to come 00:41:02.900 --> 00:41:10.440 in a position where authority over us is not used to give us freedom to worship, but to curtail our 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:17.260 freedom to worship. And Lord, we pray if that's our circumstance that you might make us bold and 00:41:17.260 --> 00:41:24.280 courageous to stand for the Lord Jesus and to continue to speak his name. And we pray that you would, 00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:30.360 Lord, prevent that from happening and help us to use whatever influence that we have, whether it's just 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:36.620 a vote in a box or whether it's a position of authority that you've given us, that you might help us to 00:41:36.620 --> 00:41:45.040 promote what is good and to resist what is evil. Lord, that your church might flourish and grow, 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:50.800 not at the point of a sword, but at the preaching of the good news of the Lord Jesus. So make us, 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:54.679 we pray, those courageous Christians who understand these things and think them through 00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:59.380 and who live them out. Pray just especially maybe for people here in this room who go 00:41:59.380 --> 00:42:04.139 tomorrow to a difficult work situation with an unreasonable boss. Pray that you would help them 00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:11.380 in that situation to do whatever they do in word or deed in your name and giving thanks to you 00:42:11.380 --> 00:42:14.340 as we pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.