Lord, we come before you in various states of being scattered.
Would you gather us, turn our hearts towards you,
and may your word and your purposes be accomplished in this time.
In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
Amen.
All right. Well, thank you, everybody, for being here.
And, yeah, we're looking forward to today.
So the last two weeks, just as a recap,
we were covering kind of questions around causes of mental illness.
That was week one.
And then last week we really looked at can mental illness exist in Christians
and are faithful Christians able to sort of acknowledge the existence of mental illness.
So today we're going to be sort of presupposing that mental illness exists
and that Christians can have mental illness.
We're going to be looking at what specifically do you do yourself
or for a friend or family member if somebody is struggling with mental illness.
So we're going to be going into more specifics in terms of mental health treatment today.
Hi.
As opposed to kind of covering the more broader theological issues.
But we will touch on some different questions around faith and mental health, too.
So as always, we really welcome questions, disagreements, concerns,
and we'd love to hear experiences from you all.
All right.
So maybe we're going to focus today on kind of three questions,
the who, what, when, where, and why of seeking mental health treatment.
So we'll try to bring our professional sides in a little bit
in terms of offering some input on mental health treatment,
as well as obviously talking about the faith aspects as well.
So Stephanie, do you want to start us off with starting us off with the who?
Yeah, yeah.
So in terms of like who does professional mental health treatment,
kind of like the two big categories are therapists
and medication management helpers.
And so in terms of therapists, Elena can talk a little bit about what kind of training goes into that.
In terms of medications, these are generally MDs, APRNs.
They can be DOs as well.
They're people who've kind of had a little bit more of the biology training
in order to kind of differentiate, you know, where are, you know,
in terms of the mind-body connection,
where depression might manifest as lethargy or tiredness or trouble eating.
Is it something related to a thyroid hormone?
Is it a vitamin deficiency?
And so having a little bit of training around how that integrates into the physical body
is part of the work of an MD.
Some of the medication providers will also do therapy.
And so a therapist can have like any number of credentials,
but just kind of depending on the practice,
that would be something important to know,
you know, whether they concentrate mostly on medications for mental health conditions
or whether they also integrate therapy into it.
So sometimes people have split treatment where they have, you know,
one person doing the therapy, one person doing medication management.
But sometimes, and this will usually be in private practice,
where they integrate both with that piece.
But if you want to talk a little bit more about that.
Yeah, so in terms of therapists, like if you're,
I think this is going to be an overwhelming process.
If you're like, I need therapy.
I know I need to talk to someone.
How do I possibly find who I should talk to?
And that's really overwhelming.
And I say that as a therapist,
I think it's really overwhelming to navigate the system.
So a few, we'll kind of get to the general professional side
and then the Christian side.
So in terms of therapists, a lot of people online
can sometimes call themselves therapists or counselors or that type of thing.
It's important to make sure somebody's licensed
if you're looking for a professional mental health treatment.
There's like life coaches and different people
who might have like the term counselor or coach or something like that
who don't actually have a professional mental health license.
So you'll want to look in somebody online,
their profile should list like I'm a licensed social worker,
psychologist, or clinical mental health counselor
in the state of Connecticut.
Or they should be in the process of obtaining licensure,
which means they're still working toward their hours,
but they're under supervision of somebody who is licensed.
And that's fine too.
But sometimes I think I look at certain online profiles
and I'm like, oh, this person's marketing themselves as a therapist,
but they might not be a bad person to talk to for some things,
but they haven't actually obtained a professional licensure to be a therapist.
It's important to note that.
And we'll get into this in a little bit,
but there is a category of biblical counselors.
And we're going to talk a little bit about that
in terms of differences between biblical counselors
and professional mental health professionals.
But biblical counselors are not usually licensed therapists.
I suppose somebody could have a double sort of degree,
but biblical counselors are sort of a separate category.
They have not received professional mental health training.
So in terms of who do you look for,
I think it's really important.
And we're going to talk about like,
do you need to see a Christian?
And we'd love to hear kind of everybody's perspectives about that.
But finding somebody that you trust is really good
and finding somebody who just feels like a good fit.
And I usually tell people like,
if you've gone to see somebody three times
and after the third time, you're like,
I think that's a pretty good sign that you can look elsewhere.
Because if you're really opening up about really vulnerable things,
it's important to feel like the person understands you,
you can trust them.
Sometimes after the first time,
especially if it's your first time going to therapy,
it might feel so weird
that you might not necessarily feel connected
to that person right away.
But three times I think is usually enough
to have a gut feeling of like,
is this good or not good?
It's also great to get referrals from friends
or our elders to make professional mental health referrals.
So if you can get a recommendation,
like, oh, someone I know saw so.
And so that can be nice
just to have a little bit of a personal connection.
So yeah, those are a few notes.
Anything you'd add to that, Stephanie?
No, I think, and we can talk a little bit more
as we segue into kind of something we've heard often is,
you know, does my therapist or psychiatrist
need to be a Christian in order to really kind of understand that?
And I think we've, we talked about this a little bit
and we landed on, you know, it could be helpful,
but I think that depending on kind of what that topic
might look like,
but really that idea of, you know, opening yourself up,
do you feel like this person is trustworthy and competent?
Those are probably going to be more important.
And other factors such as like,
if they take your insurance,
if they're geographically located,
if they don't take insurance,
are they affordable in some way?
Those might be more salient factors
than is this person a Christian?
And I think I would also note that
even if someone is saying like,
oh, I'm a Christian therapist or psychiatrist, right?
That that spectrum of Christian beliefs
is so big as well
that even if they're saying that they're Christian,
that doesn't necessarily mean
that they hold the exact same beliefs,
core beliefs as you and the sense of the world.
And so even figuring out kind of where they might be
and how that translates into the therapy process
is something that shouldn't be assumed.
Were you going to say the term biblical counselor
and Christian counselor interchangeably,
or are there two distinctions?
Two distinctions.
So biblical counseling,
and we'll talk about that.
We might say biblical counseling for our next section,
but biblical counseling is folks
who are not trained mental health professionals.
Like they don't have graduate level training
in mental health treatment,
but they've gone through a program
for biblical counseling,
which is really the process of using prayer
and scripture exclusively
to treat mental illness or mental health diagnoses
versus a Christian counselor.
Usually a Christian therapist will be a Christian
and perhaps bring in prayer
or other sort of biblical principles
or things like that,
but they're also employing psychological treatments
that are sort of more broadly used.
So I'm curious.
So yeah, Stephanie and I had some different ideas around
when is it helpful
that you probably should see a Christian?
When does it more important to see someone
who is competent in your area
that you're seeking treatment for?
And there's a lot to be said about that,
but I'd love to hear from people
just as you think about seeking
mental health treatment therapists,
like how important does it feel to you
that they're a Christian or not?
And what have been your experiences with that?
Either way, we'd love to hear.
Either yours or people that you know.
Yeah.
I think for me,
as a person that's been recently
trying to seek that out,
I think it's been harder for me
trying to seek out a Christian therapist
or counselor or anything
because I feel like in a lot of different ways,
especially in the area that I live in,
I'm surrounded by
therapists that don't look like me
or don't understand
where I'm coming from.
It's like sometimes struggling mentally
in a,
like my day-to-day life
or like Christian life.
It's like,
it just seems so complicated
to talk to a certain type of people
sometimes.
Yeah.
I think that's like
the best thing for me.
It's like other aspects of identity
can matter too.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
How about other people
who feel it's important
to see a Christian
or maybe hasn't been
pros and cons?
I think it's important.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tell me,
yeah,
say more what,
what has been,
yeah,
what has been helpful for you
about seeing a Christian?
They're saying beliefs
based on what God teaches us
in the Bible
and treating each other
and how to do
a Christian from God.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Because non-Christians
might not have,
they probably don't have
all the same values
and goals.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Right.
And this is where
we kind of talked
a little bit about,
you know,
if you can't find
a Christian therapist,
that maybe it could be
enough that they're
faith-affirming,
right,
and so that they're
not trying to,
you know,
impose any sort of
their beliefs
or worldviews on you,
but really trying to
work within your framework
of understanding
and how you feel,
you know,
your goals are influenced
by Christianity.
And so I think that
there's a difference
between,
you know,
a therapist who's kind of
maybe actively telling you
some of the things
that you're bringing
into the room
are not helpful
and kind of dismissing it
versus somebody
who is genuinely curious
about, you know,
what matters to you
and how can we
work around this issue
so that what matters to you
gets accomplished.
And I think also
just kind of even
within Connecticut,
it may not even be an option
to see a Christian psychologist
or therapist
because they are few
and far between.
And so I think
having somebody
who is faith affirming
or at least open
and not trying to
kind of tell you
it doesn't matter
would be an appropriate
place to go.
So with that,
like,
when we get,
like,
stuck in that,
like,
we're going to build
telling us all the things
that we need,
like,
want to hear
versus some of the hard things
that we need to hear.
So just,
like,
I don't understand,
like,
you know,
I don't think I could,
like,
do the same thing
because,
like,
we have to be
little Christian people
in order to talk about
our struggles
and mental health
and,
like,
all these other issues
we have.
Like,
people outside of our circle
can't give us advice
or feedback
on,
like,
the good of the world
and stuff
that they don't believe
or what we believe
or how do we,
you know,
what they believe
until,
like,
we get to know them.
and their jobs
not to allow us
to get to know them
or be like that
more so
for them to help us
understand us.
So I'll know me.
Yeah.
No,
I think those are
good points.
A couple thoughts,
you know,
kind of along those lines
of,
like,
when do you,
when is it most helpful
to seek out a Christian
versus maybe when is it
not something
absolutely necessary?
I think,
so,
for instance,
like,
if your mental health
concerns are very
sort of interwoven
with spiritual concerns
as well,
so perhaps maybe
if you've experienced
spiritual abuse
and,
or abuse in a church context
and your,
your mental health
is very much tied
with,
like,
trying to find a way
forward in your faith
despite having experienced
spiritual abuse,
for me,
that would be harder
for me to see
not a Christian
for that personally,
right,
because it's like,
oh,
I really want someone
to help me find a way
forward in my faith.
Like,
and myself personally,
I've seen a few therapists,
I think two are Christians
and one is not
and I've had a really
good experience
with my current therapist
who's not a Christian
but I've had a different
kind of really valuable
experience with therapists
who are Christians,
I think just depending
on kind of what
you're looking for,
so if,
you know,
there's this spiritual
abuse issue
wanting to understand
how depression
and faith go together,
a Christian therapist
is probably best
for that
if you can find one.
If it's like,
for example,
you're dealing
with a tic disorder
and you need
a very specific
form of treatment,
it's called habit
reversal turning,
like to help you
not sort of prevent
verbal or motor tics,
it might be nice
to see a Christian
for that,
right,
like,
all things being equal,
I would probably
always rather see
a Christian
who had equal
competency
to somebody
who's not a Christian.
At the same time,
if there's no
Christian therapist
who specialize
in tic disorder
treatment
and there's
a non-Christian
therapist
who does,
who,
yes,
tic disorder
is like involuntary
noises or movements
that sometimes
people can engage in
and there's somebody
who has that special
area of competency
who's not a Christian
who's still open
to and receptive
to you talking
about your beliefs,
in that case,
I'd say,
hey,
it might be a good
idea to seek
the treatment
from somebody
with that specific
expertise.
Obviously,
there's a lot
of gray areas
in there.
Anxiety,
depression,
can sometimes
have an aspect
of faith,
but there's also
aspects that are
not about faith
and so I think
it really,
yeah,
I think it depends
on kind of
the amount
of specialty
that you need
in a provider
and like Stephanie
was saying,
unfortunately,
Connecticut
is not abundant
with Christian
therapists in general,
especially those
who have openings,
so we,
which is
a problem.
I've never lived
in a state
where it's such
a problem.
It's really hard.
So I think,
you know,
keeping in mind
the idea
of common grace,
like that God
has provided
knowledge and resources
and training
to many people
who could be helpful
and may or may
not be as helpful
as a Christian
therapist for certain
things,
but also could have
specialized areas
of competency
even if they're
not Christians.
Yeah,
anything you would
add to that,
Stephanie?
I think on the
medication piece,
I think it's
like just easy,
a little bit easier
to draw the comparison
to like,
do we need
a Christian
primary care doctor?
Do we need
a Christian OB-GYN
who has all
the same values
around like,
when does life start,
right?
And you may have
different views on that,
but I would say
the majority of people
who are able
to find a primary care
doctor that they
can click with
or an OB-GYN
who is competent
to perform a C-section,
like they kind of
are able to work
with you around that.
And so,
again,
just trying to think
about,
you know,
mental illness
is different in some
ways,
but in a lot,
you know,
there's a lot of
overlap too
with kind of how
it manifests in the
body and how do we
choose our primary
care doctors,
right?
And we think about
other factors.
So it's just kind of
sometimes helpful
to think about
how do we treat
other medical
professionals as well
and what do we
expect of them.
I think psychiatric
or mental health
problems are different
because they deal
with our mind
and thinking
and our emotions.
We're just going
to a primary care
provider.
Yeah,
no,
absolutely.
Or an OB-GYN
or a whole other
cardiologist.
And I would say
like this is where
we try to balance
a little bit
about the sense
of like the brain
is an organ too,
right?
It's a physical
thing that also
can fail us
in the ways
that our hearts
can fail us
and our livers
can fail us.
And so there is
something about
medical care
kind of bringing
it back up
to a working state
that is very
similar to,
you know,
my liver is failing
and I need to
talk to somebody
about what I can
do to prevent
further damage,
how can I
kind of live
with this as a
chronic condition,
right?
I think that that
is true for a lot
of mental health
conditions as well.
And then I agree
that I think that
there is a certain
vulnerability to
talking about
the past
and emotions
and how we're
dealing with that
that can,
that is a,
that is a little
separate from
just a very
straightforward
like procedure
kind of a thing.
But I would say,
you know,
in areas of
an eating disorder
where your
electrolytes are
out of balance
and your heart
is at risk
or where somebody
is psychotic
and it's due to
in part to a
dopamine imbalance
or there's somebody
who,
yeah,
exactly,
but,
you know,
how do drugs
affect our bodies,
where are the
damage,
you know,
where are the
effects,
that kind of a
thing.
I think that
there is,
there is still
kind of more
clear biological
reasons and in
that case,
somebody with a
biological training
can be helpful
and I don't,
and it's a really
hard balance.
I think you're
right that it's,
you know,
we tended towards
like a very
materialist view
sometimes,
you know,
in secular culture
of,
you know,
mental health
is just
neurotransmitters
kind of running
amok or
it's just
like neural
circuitry kind
of a thing
versus maybe
sometimes over
spiritualizing,
you know,
some of the
depression and
anxiety,
but I think
we're really
trying to find
kind of that
balance of how
do we integrate
both because it
is really a
combination of
both.
And our problem
with psychiatric
mental health
disorders is that
our brain is
enclosed in our
cranium and we
can't visualize it
like we can't
with other parts
of our body,
we can't
with an X-ray
a cat,
an MRI,
et cetera,
all this testing,
we're actually
looking at the
organs.
It's not that
easy with the
brain.
Yeah,
absolutely.
Yeah,
and that's why
it is so hard
to comprehend,
right?
I think that
kind of that
overlap of
neurology and
psychiatry is
sometimes tricky,
but where,
you know,
scans are able
to tell us,
oh,
here's a tumor
that's causing
you,
you know,
damage versus,
oh,
here are these
things,
you know,
hormones and
neurotransmitters,
it's a little
bit harder.
It's easier
for therapy,
you can go in
there and do
surgery or
whatever you
need to do,
you know,
an ablation
and in the
brain,
you can't
do that.
It's challenging.
Or they used
to and it
did not turn
out so hard.
I said,
well,
they used to
do surgery
for kind
of,
like,
you know,
like that
could not
be treated,
you know,
mental health
conditions.
I think you
had a question
too,
or a comment.
I had a
comment,
yeah,
I was going
to speak
to the
vulnerability.
I think it's,
you know,
when I break
my arm,
I don't mind
someone looking
at it and
sharing that,
but when,
if someone has
something more
personal or
more mental
going on,
I think there's
a big vulnerability
aspect and
treatment is not,
it's not that
simple and it
doesn't always
make sense to
us and we
don't really,
you know,
we get kind
of caught in
our own mental
fog because,
you know,
broken arm,
I can trust
almost anybody
in a scrub
outfit for,
but other,
issues is not
that easy.
Yeah,
absolutely.
And I think
kind of to what
Stephanie was
saying,
for different
people,
the medication
prescribing piece
could be different
from the therapy
piece.
For me,
personally,
I'm more
comfortable seeing
somebody,
like medication
prescribers usually
see like once a
month or once
every few weeks.
I'm more
comfortable,
and you don't go
super in-depth,
it's more about
side effects and
kind of like for
some medication
prescribers.
so that doesn't
feel as important
to me if they're
a Christian,
versus therapy,
an hour a week
really diving into
your trauma and
your life history
and your emotions,
that might be more
important to see a
Christian for many
people, right?
So it can kind of
vary based on the
level and that like
what you're looking
for, yeah, if you're
looking for medications
or therapy, but
that's a great point.
Yeah.
I think it's also
helpful to recognize
the wide spectrum
of self-identified
Christians.
like Stephanie
was saying.
Like you could go
to a Christian
therapist and
still be like,
oh, like this
person does,
you know,
is not on the
same level in
terms of thinking
about God and
holiness.
Yeah.
It's true.
I used to drive
to Hartford to
see a Christian
therapist who
ended up wanting
to realign my
heart chakra.
right.
Yeah.
I've, uh, there's,
yeah, there's a
lot.
And so you can't
kind of tell from
somebody's website
profile all the
time, like what
Christian means.
And so that's why
often asking the
elders, asking a
friend for a
Christian therapist
recommendation.
Good.
Uh, yeah.
How often or how
likely is it that you
can in your first
session ask, like
spend time asking
them about them,
like interview them
as you're okay.
Yeah.
I didn't know what
that was like.
Yeah.
I think you
definitely can.
They, people have
different comfort
levels on what
they're willing to
answer depending
on their style and
kind of their
training and things
like that.
But especially if
you told them,
Hey, it's important
that somebody is
like understanding
my beliefs.
And that's why I'm
asking.
I feel like most
people would really
want to work with
you on that.
I would say.
Yeah.
Right.
I think it depends
on kind of what
type of therapy
they're trying to
do.
Right.
So again, if it's
like very behavioral
focused learning
skills, they probably
are happy to tell
you their credentials
and kind of where
they're coming from
and their philosophy
around it.
But if somebody's
like, Hey, how
many kids do you
have?
And like, where
do you live?
Like, that might
come off a little
different.
But you can ask
and it's up to
them to say, Oh,
I answer this and
that.
So you can ask
whatever you want
and they can,
they can answer.
Yeah.
Carolyn.
How do you guys
think about it?
Because you both
are Christians
who are therapists
but wouldn't
necessarily promote
yourselves as
Christian therapists
in your work
environment.
Yeah.
I mean, it's,
yeah, so we,
we work with a
wide variety of
students, mostly
students who
aren't Christians.
Christians.
And so I'm, I'm
really like, I
never hide it,
right?
Like I'm never
trying to hide
anything.
And if somebody
asks, I'll
absolutely tell
them.
And I think
it's pretty
widely known
at our, in
our setting
that we are
Christians.
Um, but if
somebody is not
a Christian and
that's, they're
not coming in
for Christian
concerns, it
might not be
relevant for me
to share that,
you know, probably
won't be helpful
for them in that
moment.
But I also
don't like keep
it a secret.
Um, I think
it's tricky in
terms of kind
of as a culture,
we are shifting
towards, you
know, like what
are our identities
are various
identities and
really wanting a
match in terms
of identities.
What, you know,
race, gender
orientation,
religion, that
kind of a thing.
And so sometimes
it just isn't
possible.
Um, but sometimes
we do get like
quote unquote
matched.
And I think it
is actually
interesting that
like most of
the people, at
least in my
experience who,
who are even
asking for a
quote unquote
Christian therapist
when they talk
about the things
that are bringing
them in.
Um, it may just,
it may be more
that they just
want somebody
who's not going
to judge them,
right?
Like who's not
going to say,
oh, your belief
in God is so
infantile versus
like here is my
thing that I'm
dealing with that,
that I'm wrestling
with the Lord that
really needs like
biblical, you know,
biblical advice to
weigh on, right?
And so I think a
lot of that desire
is around like,
which is common to
all of us, right?
It is, can you
understand me?
Can you respect
me?
Um, and so again,
I think that that's
kind of the more
salient factors when
we are limited, you
know, the side of
heaven with who is
available and who
can see us.
Yeah.
I have a kind of
generalized question.
So I'm just curious,
in general,
psychologists like you,
how much do they
understand like the
pharmacology involved,
like the different
antidepressants like
benzodiazepines and
SSRIs, SNRIs,
tricyclic antidepressants,
do most psychologists
understand that?
I wouldn't say so.
Yeah.
I think, yeah, which
is definitely good to,
I mean, I have a general
idea, especially more
SSRIs because that's,
you know, I hear about
them more anecdotally
and take them.
But, but, you know,
I think it's important
to consider somebody's
like degree specialty
really for, for what
you're going for.
So if you are wanting
medication advice, if
your psychologist is
giving you medication
advice, that's a red
flag actually, because
like somebody should
really have the degree
training like Stephanie
to be able to weigh in
on that.
And so sometimes people
try to kind of get
outside of their area of
expertise and weigh in
on what you, it's
appropriate for your
therapist to say, hey,
I would really encourage
you to take medication.
That's appropriate.
Or at least get a
medication consultation.
To get a consultation,
exactly.
But it wouldn't be
appropriate for them to
say, I think you
should consider it.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And, right.
And I think, again, it
speaks to the brokenness
of the mental health care
system because there is
such a shortage of
like medication, mental
health medication
providers that PC, like
primary care doctors,
are often doing the
medication piece.
And there was a, there
was like a movement
around, which is not to
say that PCPs can't do
a good job, but just
there is not somebody
who necessarily has that
specialized training.
And also there was a
movement in Connecticut
to allow psychologists
to go through some
training to prescribe
medications.
And that may happen,
but psychologists to
prescribe medication
because that would at
least widen the group
of people who can, who
can help with that
piece.
But I think there were
enough concerns raised,
at least in this moment,
to kind of put a pause
on that.
Yeah.
Some psychologists
wouldn't prefer to do
that.
Well, there's so much, so
much good discussion.
Maybe we should move on
to the what.
But if we would love to
hear other comments too,
as we have time at the
end about whether or not
to see a Christian, when
to see a Christian or not,
there's a lot to think
about there.
So in terms of the what
is therapy, I mean, I
think this is not
necessarily always obvious,
right?
Especially if you haven't
been to therapy, like
when you go, what exactly
do you do?
Like what can you
expect?
What can you not expect?
So there are different
types of therapies.
Generally, individual
therapy, you're sitting
down one-on-one with a
professional talking
about what's bothering
you, and they're
helping you relieve
your symptoms.
But that can look so
many different ways, of
course.
And so a very general
sketch of what things
could look like.
One form of therapy is
called CBT, cognitive
behavioral therapy.
anxiety.
This really lends
itself well to anxiety
disorders.
It's especially commonly
used for anxiety
disorders, often for
depression, usually used
for OCD in some
capacity.
So this type of therapy
is really focused on
helping change your
thoughts and how helping
change your thoughts can
help you feel better.
So for example, let's
say somebody has really
severe test anxiety, like
a student has bad test
anxiety.
Every night before a
test, they're throwing
up, they can't sleep,
they can't function the
day before because
they're convinced they're
going to fail, even
though they've never
failed a test before.
That person would be a
really, really good
candidate for CBT because
the therapist would say,
hey, like, let's kind of
examine the facts.
Like, you've never, you've
never failed a test
before.
It's unlikely that you're
going to fail it this
time.
Obviously, it's a little
bit more in-depth than
that, but that's kind of
the general approach is
helping them change their
thoughts and beliefs and
helping them think more
sort of realistically and
less self-critically.
So I think CBT often can
feel pretty comfortable for
Christians because it does
align with our, as
Christians, our belief in
right thinking and right
beliefs.
So even Stephanie pointed
out this verse when a
psalmist is asking, where's
your God?
These things I remember as I
pour out my soul, how I
used to go to the house
of God under the
protection of the mighty
one with shouts of joy and
praise among the festive
throng.
Why, my soul, are you
downcast?
Why so disturbed within me?
Put your hope in God, for I
will yet praise him, my
savior and my God.
So this person is kind of
doing CBT on himself, right?
Here he's saying, why are you
so downcast?
Remember these things,
remember these truths.
And that's oversimplified,
but that's generally what
CBT is trying to do.
CBT is often usually more
time limited, so it can be
like 10 sessions and it's
more targeted.
So that is one form of
treatment that's out there.
Basically, so like if I'm
talking with Stephanie and
I'm the therapist and
Stephanie's coming in and
saying, hey, I'm really
anxious about what people
are thinking about me, I
can't get it out of my
head what people are
thinking about me, then I
would talk to Stephanie and
say, okay, let's like write
down your thoughts.
So I would have Stephanie
keep track of her thoughts
throughout the day.
Like she'll say like, oh, I
think somebody hates me.
I think I'm a bad friend.
Somebody's mad at me.
She'd write down the
thoughts.
Then she would bring it
back to session.
This is what might happen.
And then I might say, okay,
let's go through these.
Like, do you think that's
true?
What alternatives to that
might there be?
What are you believing
about yourself that might
not be true?
If I was a Christian CBT
therapist, I might say, what
what is God?
What might God say that
might be different from
what what you're saying?
And I think there's a lot
around CBT of just even
so sometimes people are
like, oh, I just feel
really tense in my body.
I feel really anxious.
I can't sleep.
You know, they've kind of
gotten all the medical
piece checked out, but
they're not aware of kind
of what are the thoughts and
circumstances that are
bringing out that tenseness
or inability to sleep.
So I think part of therapy
is even learning how do we
monitor the thoughts that
are going through our head?
Where are we noticing that
we're getting really upset?
Right.
You know, and so learning how
to pay attention to our
thoughts is kind of that
first step.
And then like Alina was
saying, really questioning
ourselves a little bit like,
oh, even if this feels
really true, you know, my
friend didn't respond to a
text message for a couple
hours, they must be really
mad at me.
And even if that feels
true, is there a way I can
talk back to myself, ask
myself like, okay, you
know, is it possible my
friend kind of got busy and
forgot to respond and
they'll respond later?
Is it possible that maybe
their phone broke or
something like that?
Right.
So again, taking a step
back, differentiating
between like what that
automatic way of assuming
somebody is mad at us or
not liking us and being
able to question, well, what
evidence do I have for this
or against this?
And is there a slight
possibility it's not so
personal as, oh, my friend
deliberately is ignoring me
because I did something
wrong to them.
Yeah.
So I think we're in CBT.
So is it the form of like
stop thinking that?
Uh-huh.
So like.
Kind of.
Yeah.
So like.
Go ahead.
So I think the idea of like
kind of stopping in that
moment to notice what's
happening and then thinking,
you know, kind of paying
attention to what are our
thoughts in that moment?
And is there a different
way to think about it?
And is there maybe a
different way to act around
it?
Might be kind of.
That's what I would say.
It was introduced to me
like in school.
Not like I went to school
before, but like.
Uh-huh.
We had to go to groups.
I went to a private school
in Arizona.
It was like kind of
Christian-based little bitch.
But it was like.
Yeah, very intense.
But it's like it was
introduced to us.
That's like.
From acting on impulse.
Stuff like that.
Card stuff.
Right.
People were playing.
Yep.
In and down.
Faking and riding.
Yeah.
But mostly like.
Just geared towards like.
Yeah.
I think it was like
you're doing like.
Inxiety.
Right.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
And I think it speaks
to kind of like how
in the moment when
our feelings can feel
just very overwhelming.
We're just kind of
in that mental fog.
Right.
Is there a way
to take a step
back from that?
Calm our bodies
down a little bit
so that the part
of our brain
that's like fight or
flight isn't just
kind of blaring.
Um.
And be able to
kind of make choices
that are more helpful
to kind of our goals
in life.
Stephanie can talk
a little bit about
psychodynamic treatment.
So I would say
like in terms of therapy
right like Elaine
is talking about
skills based
targeted
sort of treatment
and that's one
big category
and the other
is a little bit
more process oriented
and so kind of
that question of
you know how much
is a therapist
going to disclose to you
like here it might be
where the therapist
is what you're
bringing into the room
is what we're
working with
and so they might
be a little less
inclined to tell you
like all about
themselves because
they don't want
that to get in
the way of
focusing on kind
of what you're
working through
and so psychodynamic
psychotherapy you
know might be kind
of where Christians
get a little like
about it because
it's associated
with Freud who
said a lot of
different things
and I would say
you know don't
throw the baby
out with the
bath water with
this one because
I do think that
there was a lot
of wisdom in
this type of
therapy which is
really about
acknowledging the
conflicts and
emotions and
desires we might
have how those
might be unconscious
and instead kind
of acted out in
different ways and
when we bring it
into awareness how
do we make
choices about it
right because I
think it's hard to
make good choices
about how we're
acting if we're not
even sure what is
the thing underneath
that's driving it
and so it might be
for example right
like a mother going
to therapy saying
you know I really
love my child but
also like I kind
of hate my child
sometimes right or
it's like really
hard to be a
caregiver for
somebody who is
really debilitated
like I want to
help them but
also I just want
to do my own
thing and be
independent and I
think sometimes that
can feel threatening
to us as Christians
because we want to
be pure and holy
and blameless before
the Lord but I
would also question
like are we
thinking that God
can't handle the
spectrum of emotions
and the complexity
of emotions that we
bring before him
and that there is a
way in which when
we're able to
acknowledge these
desires and
conflicts that
were again you
know we're not
just talking to
the therapist but
also realizing
like bringing
this before the
Lord and submitting
this to him and
saying like yeah I
really desire to be
a better mother or
a better spouse and
also I have all these
other desires so like
Lord this is something
we're going to have to
work on together right
this is about inviting
the Lord into the
specifics of our
situation rather than
holding our desires at
arm's length and like
kind of denying and
being like oh no no
no like I really love
being a mother a hundred
percent of the time you
know and so I think
there is something
about understanding the
specificity of our
wounds that allows
Jesus to speak about
who he is specifically
in a way that is really
beautiful and so that
you know we kind of
came up with a vignette
together of you know
maybe there's a person
who growing up you
know their parents had
really high expectations
for them and nothing
was ever good enough you
know and then they you
know did decently in
life but also kind of
struggled with a sense
of never being good
enough feeling inferior
and so they start
feeling depressed or
really anxious if they
fail a test or whatever
they go to therapy
they're working through
what it means that
their family of origin
you know maybe never
outwardly abused them
but also emotionally
weren't really there for
them and so what does
you know that's part of
the work of therapy and
then maybe as a
Christian it's also being
able to receive from the
Lord that he is our
Abba Father that he
delights in us that we
are his beloved right
and that might be
different than somebody
who is working through
in therapy somebody
whose parents really
did like physically
abuse them and there's
a lot of trauma to
unpack around that and
maybe in that case
bringing that hurt
before the Lord looks
like really resting in
God as a refuge and a
stronghold and a
protector right and so
there are these kind of
like beautiful images in
the Bible that speak to
all these different
aspects of who God is
that I think therapy
can help us kind of
uncover like what is it
that we are struggling
with that maybe the
Lord can speak to
specifically in a you
know a verse or a
picture or a promise
that helps us so so
that's kind of the you
know where I would say
like the process you
know and then maybe
you're you're really
angry at your therapist
for canceling on you
last minute right and
so again like that's
part of the process of
like oh well when you
canceled on me it made
me feel like I wasn't
important and that's
something I've
struggled with that's a
specific wound right and
so I think again just
kind of maybe we talked
a little bit about last
week right we tend to
kind of gloss over the
hard parts right because
we're like Jesus covers
everything and but I
would kind of push back
a little and say you
know I think that we
should probably understand
ourselves a little bit
better and the things
that we're struggling
with in order to be able
to invite Jesus to to
speak to that
so we'll run through a
couple other forms of
treatment and then we'd
love to hear questions or
comments too so DBT
dialectical behavioral
therapy is kind of like
CBT but it's more based
on behavior change so this
kind of therapy is really
good for a lot of things
but especially people who
are in crisis of some kind
like perhaps they're
dealing with self-harm
urges and this therapy
really teaches specific
behaviors to deal with
crisis so for instance
let's say there's somebody
who is really feeling like
rejected by other people
and rejected by friends
and I look on Instagram
and see everyone going to
parties they feel really
left out and really
worthless and they might
experience urges to cut or
injure themselves or other
forms of self-harm so
dialectical behavior therapy
would teach this person's
skills to avoid that acting
on that urge so that might
be like okay dip your face
into cold water or it could
be like deep breathing or
intensely exercising or
all of which are to like
activate kind of a different
part of our bodies exactly
exactly and I would say for
most people there is a need
to then also process at some
point in time like why do you
feel worthless like why do you
why are you going on
Instagram you know some of
these other questions but it's
really hard to process deeper
issues if you're feeling an
intense bodily urge to like
self-harm or some of the
panic or some of these other
things so DBT can really help
with those behaviors
EMDR maybe some of you have
heard of this is a specific
form of trauma processing
so it involves kind of
talking through verbally talking
through a traumatic memory and
then the therapist uses kind of
different techniques to help
your body respond differently
and kind of calm your calm your
nervous system so oftentimes if
we've experienced a traumatic
incident even years years years in
the past our body and our
emotions still respond to that
incident even years later so the
passage of time doesn't like
decrease the intensity of that
response on its own and so EMDR can
help retrain basically your your
emotions it's called EMDR and that
stands for eye movement
desensitization and reprocessing
and certain people are trained in
this I am personally not so I
don't know a ton a ton about it but
it is something out there yeah do you
want to cover some of the
medication yeah this is a huge area
and I don't I don't know that we
necessarily need to get into the
specifics but I think around kind of
what are medications and also within
the field of psychiatry there's an
interventional arm so if you've ever
heard of electroconvulsive therapy or
transcranial magnetic stimulation
TMS those are all things that are
possible interventions to help when
therapy alone you know is not
helping to the extent that the person
is able to function and so again lots
of different classes of medications I
mean I hold it you know with
humility knowing that these are not
like the most fine-tuned precise
things and there are pros and cons and
we are still learning so much about it
and yeah I mean there's a lot to say
about it but I would say like for
people who need it it has been well
tolerated it's been safe it doesn't
make you into a zombie who's like all
of a sudden praising Jesus all the time
of it it's really providing a floor so
that you're able to make use of
therapy and again kind of that
illustration of you know if you're in
crisis and you feel like you're
drowning you do need to learn how to
swim eventually you also need to like
hold on to a life raft to get your head
above water so not a magic pill should
be done in conjunction with therapy
really about kind of giving us a mental
space to be able to process because
sometimes we're just so overwhelmed by
all the things that are happening that
the part of our brain that is able to
think a little more rationally and make
good choices is just not able to be
accessed and then a separate category
for you know people are who are hearing
voices seeing things believing the
government is out to get them really
struggling around like not sleeping for
long periods of times and doing all
sorts of things that I would say like I
do feel pretty strongly that those can
be really helpful tools again not
without pros and cons and talking about
you know what that person's feelings
about the medications might mean like
what does it mean that you have to use
medication or might you know are even
coming to talk to me but where we've
really seen people be able to live lives
that are a little more flourishing than
it would have been without the
medications.
It seems like patients I'm in the medical
field that are on chronic long-term like
SSRIs and all.
It's like years down the road they still
have the same diagnosis they're still
taking the same meds and is my
understanding correct it just keeps the
illness and anxiety from getting worse?
I would you know I think it depends on
the diagnosis that somebody might be
experiencing so personally I took a
medication I have for several years
because the nature of kind of what I
experience is it doesn't ever sort of
like go it doesn't go away even with
therapy it doesn't sort of you know
sort of always there sort of in my
brain so medication keeps me sort of
being able to like live a more
flourishing life and it isn't that like
therapy doesn't help it's just that
that's an aspect of my OCD that my
brain kind of really needs to be able
to sort of tolerate that well but even
sort of a personal experience like I
was really resistant even to taking
medication I remember my therapist had
to like talk me into it at a point in
time and I think I felt like it was
giving up or something or like that I
wasn't working hard enough or that I
like should be doing more or I wasn't
yeah I wasn't doing something right
to meet it and then I started I was
like oh this doesn't change me into a
fundamentally different person this
just makes things a lot easier for me
honestly it makes it easier to engage in
therapy and work and you know everything
else and so I think some people might
need a more short course of medication
like maybe they need it for a year to be
able to get through a difficult time some
people depending on the nature of their
diagnosis for example like bipolar
disorder psychosis like OCD or some
forms of depression things like that
people just generally might need it for a
long time and that doesn't mean that
they're not working hard it just means
that like their brain really can't
function well without or as well without
that medication yeah and I think the
tricky part too is like we use the word
depression as if it were like one thing
when really I think it's tens of
different things right that somebody
who's depressed because they're going
through a hard time is different than a
person who's been kind of feeling sad and
moody and irritable ever since
childhood right and so there are there
are so many different things and so when
we talk about like what is needed for a
person it really is on a case-by-case
basis and I would also say that again you
know if we think about if we draw the
comparison to medical illnesses somebody
who has high blood pressure some people
might be able to manage by exercising
and having a good diet and lowering their
salt intake some people need blood
pressure medications to lower that and
some people might need that for a
lifetime right and again there's like
most of medicine is usually I mean I
would say that a lot of it is chronic
conditions right and so I definitely
agree that there are problems some of my
work is taking people off medications
right because I do think there is
definitely something to be said about
over prescribing and I you know when
it's appropriate I do take people off
medications again just trying not to
throw the baby out with the bathwater
that like there is a lot about our
health both physical and mental health
wise that tends to be chronic and needs
kind of chronic support around that
oh yeah so that's a exposure exposure
and response it's a form of CBT so if
somebody's experiencing anxiety disorder
it helps somebody desensitize to their
fear so let's say somebody's really
scared of mice for instance and can't
even step into an old house because
their fear of seeing a mouse they might
start by looking at pictures of a
mouse and tolerating that level of
anxiety then they might go to a pet
store and see a mouse through a cage
and tolerate that level of anxiety and
then finally get within 10 feet you
know and kind of so on and so forth so
good question does anyone else have
thoughts about yeah medication
Christians taking medication yeah
there's a movie I haven't seen in a
couple of years but it's called a
beautiful mind and I think it's a good
well it tells the story of John Nash I
think he's a really talented
mathematician but he struggled with
kind of schizophrenic hallucinations
things like that and when he stopped
taking his medications he really
couldn't tell that he was having these
hallucinations or that anything was
going on it just he couldn't distinguish
real and not real and then on the
medication it's not that they went away
it's not that he didn't have these they
were like people in the movie it's not
that he didn't have them but he could
tell that they were hallucinations so it
does a really good picture of painting
the people instead of being in his house
or in his car of them being in the
distance so he's still working at the
university but they're not in his
classroom they're not sitting in the
chairs they're in the background and
they just kind of loom there and I
think that paints a really good picture
of he's not he's not going to be better
he needs that medication long term and
they're still going to linger there but
he's so much more functional and he has a
grasp of reality whether than being
caught up with those those characters and
the movie does a good job making them
characters
yeah that's a great illustration I like
that I like that
should we look at medication it's like
maintenance I have hypertension high
blood pressure I've been in two
different classes of books for years my
blood pressure is under good control and
probably if I didn't take them it may
shoot up
exactly
stroke or heart attack
yeah yeah yeah
so is it kind of the same with the
psychiatric meds
I think
right exactly yeah so so much of what is
common for our bodies is chronic and I
I would say there is a decent subset of
people for whom I would say that is
appropriate and I would say it's always
worth you know if they're young and a
number you know and I would say it's
depending on the person sometimes it is
worth trying to take them off and see
how things go
and then it's not a terrible thing to
like kind of put them back on it and
that gives us a little bit more
information so it might be like you know
you try to come off your blood pressure
medication and you're still doing the
right things but your blood pressure
is still like sky high you it gives you
more information you need to get back
on it
and then there are some people who take
it for a period of time and again
these are not like you know these are
medications that take like six to 12
weeks to even consider it a full trial
right and so it does take time and so
for some people they may be able to get
through a hard circumstance with the
help of a medication learn some skills
in therapy and then when things are in a
more stable place they're able to try to
come off it but I'm just like I guess
maybe the point is that everybody's so
different right so for somebody to be
like oh like what's wrong with you that
like your gout is not under control
right you know and you still need to
take allopirinol like I think is is a
little is to be a little bit not
acknowledging but for some people it can
be chronic
Dean you have
so you know when we listen to the
conversation so far there's a lot of
seems like there's a lot of reluctance to
deal with a mental illness and I'm an
internist I do a lot of psychiatry also
and I see that in my practice I mean so
it's one of those things that how much of it
do you think is pride and is that a sin
when you say ah you know mental illness I can
handle myself I'm a heart attack I'm not
I'm gonna try to handle it myself
or you might
actually no
that's a good question I mean I don't feel
like I could speak to each person's heart
right like only one person each person
knows before God only God knows like the
reasons why they may or may not be
seeking mental health care maybe they've
had terrible experience with therapy in
the past and so they're hesitant and I
can't blame them right like for being
hesitant but yeah I do sometimes think
that like maybe especially as Christians
we're slow to admit areas that we need
help with mentally or emotionally because
that feels especially vulnerable or weak or
embarrassing or you know isn't part as
much of what we talk about so I think
that there could be an element of pride
yeah depending on the person
isn't it a social cultural thing too like
I mean if I suffer from suicidal thoughts which I
don't but I would be more reluctant to say
something but I don't have any problem with
saying I have high blood pressure
yeah you know you tell say like I always
say for friends it's a fine anchor
people are very reluctant to admit them
it's the attitude I know you should judge people
yeah you go into like talking sessions
sessions like just speak up speaking on
experience stuff like that like heavily
influenced on the big talk of like you know
like yeah man toughen up you feel me you'll be
all right or like to not really like process
your emotions or what's going on that causes
these issues yeah later on to come talk to
somebody about it like how do I know how to
address that how do I know what's really
bothering me if I've never been allowed to
process or think what's been causing this or
like what made me make this away right yeah I
think that that speaks to kind of like maybe
our next section although and if anyone needs
to go feel free because I realize it's 10
we'll try to fly through a few of our last
points and we just do questions but if anyone
needs to go don't hesitate yeah yeah but I
think this idea of like when to seek help
sometimes there are clear red flags which
we can talk about and then sometimes it can
be hard to acknowledge we're going through a
traumatic event if the trauma is still
happening right and it's really not until
we're in a place where we've kind of surfaced
that we're able to say yeah that was really
terrible right because but in that moment
you're just trying to survive you're just
trying to get through and that that's okay
right and so I think that it may be that
like terrible things are happening and you're
you know and you're just kind of feeling
like you have to survive it may not be
necessarily the right time to seek therapy
and I think to Dean's point right like of
people saying like oh I can deal with this
on my own I think that therapy you know
there are certain ways that we talk about
things that maybe can hopefully help the
person think through what is and isn't
working for them but I don't think that
therapy can just magically be like oh you
have this problem and now you have all the
motivation to process it right so it can't
therapy in and of itself can't motivate us
to seek help and so sometimes it is an issue
of time or enough feedback from other people
or you know maybe sometimes it's getting
fired from a job maybe sometimes it's you
know a relationship failing that you know
brings that person to a point where they're
like oh yeah what I thought was working
might have worked in the past but it isn't
working for me right now right but it's
some that's something that a person kind of
needs to come to a conclusion about before
they seek help
so just a couple
maybe we can run briefly over a couple of
these points so one concerns week four too
what I said we can pick up pick up yes
exactly so maybe maybe we'll go over what
what therapy can and cannot do okay yeah
and then we can kind of cover a couple
we have so much to talk about with this
topic but it's hard so just really quickly I
think there is a genuine concern sometimes
Christians or people ask like in secular
society are people making therapy like
they're God and I think sometimes it can for
people who aren't people of faith like it
can't have almost sort of like this like
religious yeah sense of like this is what
will truly help me and we also think that's
not true right like as mental health
professionals and people who are Christians
so in terms of what therapy can and can't
do for you as we see it so it can help you
relieve your symptoms that can improve your
mood it can make you less anxious I do
think with that I could sort of remove
barriers that might be getting between you
and God so for instance like if your mood is
so low that you can't go to church or read
scripture or engage with other Christians
therapy can help you sort of free you up
to spiritually engage with God or if you're
so anxious that you can't read the Bible
without ruminating and ruminating that it
can kind of free you up it can improve your
relationships like with psychodynamic
treatment like Stephanie was talking about
it can help make you more self-aware of what
you're doing so you're not just acting out of
reflex so I find myself yelling at my husband
every day and not understanding why right
like he probably wants me to go to therapy
to like understand what like why are you doing
that why do you keep acting you go serve out of
that reflex so some things that cannot do so it
cannot give meaning and purpose to your life
and and I do think that some people who don't
have a foundation of God can look to therapy for
something that it can't give so for instance
somebody who's experiencing depression might
feel really bleak and hopeless about the future
and feel purposeless and therapy can help
improve their mood it can give a space for
them to talk about what matters to you what
do you want your life to look like reestablish
goals but it can't give someone an ultimate
purpose for living right or an ultimate reason
for existing and motivation and I think sometimes
that's where if you think of God first and therapy
second sometimes if that gets turned around
people can look to it for something that it that
it can't do and it cannot like stuff I'm saying
it cannot inherently give you motivation to work
on yourself so I think sometimes we maybe we think
this is friends or family members like oh so and so
really needs to go to therapy if they just went
to a session they would start to work on
themselves and not really like therapy is a
tool for them to work on themselves if they have
the motivation to do so but just kind of getting
someone to one therapy session they may or may
not be in a place where they feel ready to do
that and I would say too it cannot override the
human conditions like we're speaking like the human
condition it can't speaking to the chronicity of
mental health like going to therapy can't remove our
vulnerability and frailty as humans or our
susceptibility to mental illness and oftentimes we
might go to therapy or take medication and like you
were saying with the beautiful mind movie our mental
health concerns might still be always lurking in the
background and that is part of our experience as
people on the side of heaven right for for many of us
and that doesn't mean that it's not important because
it's great that those things are in the background and
not the foreground but it's sometimes an unreasonable
expectation of mental health treatment that it's going to
take everything away um and yeah and I think just to maybe
to add on to kind of therapy because we've heard a lot of
questions about like therapy versus like christian counseling or
biblical counseling um you know therapy as we've been
talking about is kind of there there are techniques around it
that may not get at the existential piece of why we struggle what is the
purpose of suffering do I matter um and that might be where biblical
counseling could be really helpful for
you know what does the bible say about our dignity and the purpose of life
and that kind of a thing and I think sometimes we
put these in juxtaposition of oh is is it biblical counseling or is it
therapy um and again I think what we would say is that
ideally it's the integration of both that maybe both can come to
weigh in on this specific issue and that when a pastor or elder feels like
oh you know this is something that a trained mental health professional should be
dealing with it's not kind of this game of hot potato like oh no you're it
right like no you're holding the bag but it's really just kind of like adding
another person into that link that circle around them
um expanding that so that they have more resources
and we actually asked you know the pastors what they think about biblical
counseling versus therapy and so they came up with some things that maybe like
we hadn't even known how they think about it and so
one is that um biblical counseling their hope
well actually and I think they have different views on whether what they do
pastoral counseling or discipleship yeah
that maybe they they might actually be hesitant to use the word counseling
because that has such a specific connotation
and liability to it um but also that it's you know bringing prayer and god's word
to bear on a situation in a way that is probably more targeted
and uh short term and that if they're that even things like grief where the bible has a lot to say
about death and suffering and grieving um but but if it's complex or if it was particularly traumatic
right that might be where adding in a mental health professional could be helpful
um and also yeah and so there's that piece of kind of what biblical counseling
and therapy could look like and then also kind of the logistics of it that it's biblical counseling
or pastoral counseling and discipleship is something that all the elders are privy to
so it's not confidential in the way that seeking mental health treatment is confidential
um and again in an ideal world right there would be this integration
of both um but oftentimes people feel like they have to choose
so the when we spoke with um pastor nick and pastor matt and tom and the elders so
the general approach of our church is they are very sounds like very comfortable making referrals
to mental health professionals um in their the elders feel really conscious of not like overstepping
their boundaries of competence and so if there's anything that might involve a mental health diagnosis
they want to refer for that while also not withdrawing their own care and their own presence
but just adding in that mental health component um and so maybe should we run over the when's really quick
um so just kind of what a few things of when to seek out help so if you are i just say if something
is really really bothering you to the point where it's always on your mind it's hard to function as you
used to function you're not feeling like yourself that is a really good indication that it's a good idea
to get support um so we consider kind of like the length something's been bothering you like
if you're feeling bad for three days but you felt fine before that that might not be as much of a need
for therapy as if you've been feeling bad for five years or five months right um if you're like
i think about this once in a while but generally my life is fine versus like really i'm thinking
or experiencing this every single day um definitely time to get support so i i often think like if you
feel like you need support you probably do and it's probably a good idea to seek that out um
so um we kind of covered that some red flags for when you should definitely definitely not try to
deal with something alone either for yourself or for somebody else um is if there's any sort of risk
of self-harm involved or suicidal thinking um that is not a time when we would ever want somebody to worry
alone or worry by themselves that's a really can be high risk situation and so um really ensuring
that somebody can get help as quickly as possible if they're dealing with safety concerns is important
um eating disorders those tend to have um also a high risk of health um health risk um and so we
think you know really important to get somebody into treatment right away dealing with an eating
disorder psychosis so if somebody's hearing voices seeing things other people don't see or hear um
if somebody is um has bipolar disorder should they be experiencing like days on end of not sleeping
behaving recklessly acting way out of the ordinary that's a good idea um to seek help right away ocd
um just kind of a complicated a more specialized treatment that's needed for that um sometimes trauma
treatment can just be very complex and somebody needs a certain level of training to be able to
deal well with that um and this is all interwoven with like when there are safety concerns or things
that might require more um specialized forms of treatment i think it also interplays a lot with
like where does that treatment take place does it take place outpatient does it take place in a hospital
where there's 24 7 nursing care is it somewhere in between where you're going multiple times
a week um to a partial hospitalization or entire outpatient program but again like these are you
know i think this is less about like telling you to triage on your own and more just kind of like
you know this is kind of the spectrum of care that we have that there's you know that therapy and
medication help can look different across these different settings and depending on where the person
is um they may benefit from kind of more structure versus like being at home yeah all right well maybe this is a good
a good place to take questions comments of course if you need to go that's totally fine but yeah
jessica
i just want to do a comment kind of in response to what we talked about earlier with like why people don't get treatment
i think sometimes it may be fine but i think sometimes it's like realizing that like what i'm going through is enough to warrant
like you just went through some of the wind and it's like yeah um like i don't know i think
maybe it's maybe it's not the difference maybe it's just me there's some things that i'm like well maybe that
should be helpful but i have felt that i need to reserve professional time for this course like
dealing with these red flag issues and like i don't feel like that's necessarily where i'm at now but
like perhaps i could still be good yeah so it's i think a lot of it is just like maybe being told that i
need to deal with it myself or realizing like just realizing the the magnitude of what i'm actually
going through not not being able to do that yeah yeah sometimes it could be probably maybe
right right i think that yeah that's such a that's such a good point because we often so hear
we often hear from so many people oh i didn't realize it's not normal to feel this way right
i didn't realize that not everybody struggles with walking into a room and freaking out and not knowing
who to talk to because it all seems like white noise right i didn't know that other people don't
have to spend hours and hours you know getting out of bed and talking themselves through it right and
so sometimes it's you know whether it's a close you know if a close friend or a spouse or a partner
or a family member is kind of like like have you thought you know like have you thought about
therapy or have you thought about other supports that's often helpful feedback and that's also where
again friends and family members can do things that like a therapist within a setting can't do right
and so to not minimize the role that you know you as a non-professional would be able to do because
sometimes people do need to hear from friends like hey it seems like you've really been struggling
um have you thought about getting help um yeah
how do you get over the thinking of like
um
your mess is too messy for anybody else to relate or understand
in a group setting or like
in a frame group setting you know what i'm saying like how do you like
how do you learn to get over that kind of stuff
yeah i mean it's tough i think sometimes we think like how could a therapist help me
if they haven't been through this specific thing and i think one thing to keep in mind
most therapists go into the field because they've been through something bad i feel like i almost know
no one who went into the mental health field unless they have like a personal reason for doing so
but i think it's true like your therapist will not have your same experience
which has i think pros and cons in some ways like
maybe they don't have like as totally an understanding of exactly what you went through
but there might be a degree if they're curious and respectful there might be a degree of objectivity
that them not having had the same experience could in some ways be helpful
but you've got to make sure like that they can understand you enough that you feel comfortable
um yeah carolyn i was just gonna say i think also it's sometimes helpful with those like worries of
like is this too much particularly like for my friends or family or is this like too messy
i don't want to burden which are all things you can work out in therapy
but um i think to have someone you're like oh this is their job
this is a service right like whether i'm paying or my insurance is paying them
and i think there's power in just like speaking things aloud to another human even if that human
doesn't necessarily have been experiencing the same thing to like have someone who's like outside
of this like of your life that like in some ways i like don't have to necessarily worry about
the other person's emotions or what they're caring because they kind of signed up for this
like ideally that would that's also true of family and friends but i think sometimes when that's like
my worry it's like nice to like take the first step with my therapist which then like helps me be more open
with people for whom like i'm closer to or just have more information
i would say too like sometimes when somebody has not had your experience they can actually be more empathetic
so like let's say you've gone through a certain difficult thing in life
and you're around someone who's gone through the same difficult thing
their response might be like okay you know it's normal you know kind of type thing but if somebody
has not experienced that they might be like oh wow that is a lot and that actually might be a more
healing response than somebody who's like been there you know like obviously hopefully a friend
doesn't do that but sorry there was a question in the back
actually it's a comment uh it's a advice um i mean uh you know i can talk to y'all i mean this is your
talk obviously i don't want to go into but one advice i would recommend is that fellowship
to get together with friends and fellowship together and especially christian friends
is that you know you talk to people some of your age your background who have similar uh uh uh
thought patterns as you and then you open up and when you open up things get better
god kind of like you know looks into you heals you when you open up
keep it inside it just smothers and just kind of like you know you uh you know fellowship
yeah i think the community aspect is very important um and again something that therapy
in and of itself can't provide and that's what we'll talk about not next week but the following week
of yeah yeah oh good i just wanted to piggyback on one of the things about this is that um
community is very important and and working with peers people are struggling with the same thing and
um having that in the church would be amazing yeah there's a lot of community in the outside world
in the outside of the church amazingly healing and yeah all the things right and the church being a
place that should be a place of like you know where we come with our broken us and seek healing
together and are vulnerable yeah so there's no stigma i mean it's very easy to feel the thing
in church and um
have that kind of community
um
yeah absolutely yeah and that's that's a great segue i think we're so we're taking a break next week
but the last week we'll talk about you know how can we
uh-huh
and like yeah yeah we're i'm out of town next week so we're we're on pause and then we'll be our uh
resuming or i guess resuming and ending our final week will be i guess that's the memorial day weekend
um the following the 20 yes good 27th or 28 something whatever that weekend is the last weekend of may
um but i think very much to your point of like how can the church as it be a community for those who are struggling
um so so bring your ideas yeah
within church what i did that oh specifically within church is what we're thinking within this church within
christian communities yep how can we better support one another um in struggling with mental health
yeah yeah
yes yep yep um i believe the first two are currently already on the website if i can know they are and
then this one should be uploaded in a few days i would have
oh cool oh youtube and
and they're on the church podcast too
even though i don't call this like community or small group but i think that this is wonderful
and who knows do you do
well i've been in the church all my life i've never heard of this issue
i'm dressed i know it's you know not specific to a specific
psychiatric issue which is
not feasible but um
tries to talk about things
your biblical perspective very much appreciate
oh well thank you thank you it's yeah
thank you for helping us understand
yeah we thank you for your comments yeah
participation i appreciate it yeah if anyone has other questions we can hang around did you have a
question or comment i didn't have a question i i just kind of wanted to go back to what you said
how can someone understand my mess or whatever you know how are they and i went to christian
counseling here after going through something here and that counselor was like oh i mean he was as
as you said so empathetic what a horrible thing to have gone through and just i was like
thank you
and i guess the other thing about christian aspect is
they created
and that's why i like a christian therapy
for sure
for sure yeah and that's a good thing to know because if you go to a non-christian therapist
they probably well yeah i can't imagine that they would invest in
if that's what you're looking for a hundred percent you can look for a christian with that
and and not because like they don't because they're like
they think
they might not know
they're like mindful of like the power dynamics and what is it like
to invite someone into prayer and is that something you feel comfortable with or you feel
obligated by it you know so just it gets a little sticky
it's just something that i personally do yeah yeah absolutely for sure for sure any other yeah
questions or is this like a group also to like test something that can but possibly like continue
later on down or become a different form of a small group inside the church that has a open
discussion about issues and traumas that we face outside the church and within church
hmm it's like it's a good question i don't think we've thought about it but
i think i think our hope is still to try to figure out within the church like what
can be an ongoing support i don't think we figured it out but we're open to ideas
so approach the elders if you have
what we can and can't do
yeah
in any
like evangelical church to have
names and contact information in place
you can just say to pastor i'm struggling with this or that
you know professionally
yeah
yeah i believe i asked tom who's one of the elders and i think he said pastor
matt has some referrals for therapists i imagine pastor nick would too
um so if you go to one of the elders i'm sure that they can get you connected with the list of
yeah who's in the community the hard part is in new haven in connecticut there's not
there's just not a lot of christian therapists unfortunately um so we hope there's more you
know if you know anyone uh you can add to the database yeah
but i do know that they have referrals people that they refer to so yeah well thank you all so
much we'll hang around if anyone has any yeah then you want to share comments but thank you so
much for we'll see you in
you