WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.299
 Lord, we come before you in various states of being scattered.

00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:10.580
 Would you gather us, turn our hearts towards you,

00:00:10.580 --> 00:00:15.400
 and may your word and your purposes be accomplished in this time.

00:00:15.780 --> 00:00:17.160
 In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:17.920
 Amen.

00:00:20.500 --> 00:00:23.760
 All right. Well, thank you, everybody, for being here.

00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:27.560
 And, yeah, we're looking forward to today.

00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:30.739
 So the last two weeks, just as a recap,

00:00:31.099 --> 00:00:36.560
 we were covering kind of questions around causes of mental illness.

00:00:36.659 --> 00:00:37.299
 That was week one.

00:00:37.299 --> 00:00:42.460
 And then last week we really looked at can mental illness exist in Christians

00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:47.599
 and are faithful Christians able to sort of acknowledge the existence of mental illness.

00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:55.239
 So today we're going to be sort of presupposing that mental illness exists

00:00:55.239 --> 00:00:57.200
 and that Christians can have mental illness.

00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:02.100
 We're going to be looking at what specifically do you do yourself

00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:07.579
 or for a friend or family member if somebody is struggling with mental illness.

00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:12.700
 So we're going to be going into more specifics in terms of mental health treatment today.

00:01:12.820 --> 00:01:13.140
 Hi.

00:01:13.140 --> 00:01:18.799
 As opposed to kind of covering the more broader theological issues.

00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:22.980
 But we will touch on some different questions around faith and mental health, too.

00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:28.060
 So as always, we really welcome questions, disagreements, concerns,

00:01:28.060 --> 00:01:30.719
 and we'd love to hear experiences from you all.

00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:32.180
 All right.

00:01:32.240 --> 00:01:36.819
 So maybe we're going to focus today on kind of three questions,

00:01:36.819 --> 00:01:41.619
 the who, what, when, where, and why of seeking mental health treatment.

00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:46.959
 So we'll try to bring our professional sides in a little bit

00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:50.619
 in terms of offering some input on mental health treatment,

00:01:50.619 --> 00:01:55.079
 as well as obviously talking about the faith aspects as well.

00:01:55.079 --> 00:02:00.719
 So Stephanie, do you want to start us off with starting us off with the who?

00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:01.980
 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:06.340
 So in terms of like who does professional mental health treatment,

00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:10.740
 kind of like the two big categories are therapists

00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:16.319
 and medication management helpers.

00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:22.159
 And so in terms of therapists, Elena can talk a little bit about what kind of training goes into that.

00:02:22.299 --> 00:02:27.239
 In terms of medications, these are generally MDs, APRNs.

00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:29.060
 They can be DOs as well.

00:02:29.139 --> 00:02:32.939
 They're people who've kind of had a little bit more of the biology training

00:02:32.939 --> 00:02:37.319
 in order to kind of differentiate, you know, where are, you know,

00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:39.500
 in terms of the mind-body connection,

00:02:40.340 --> 00:02:45.000
 where depression might manifest as lethargy or tiredness or trouble eating.

00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.599
 Is it something related to a thyroid hormone?

00:02:48.819 --> 00:02:50.280
 Is it a vitamin deficiency?

00:02:50.939 --> 00:02:54.919
 And so having a little bit of training around how that integrates into the physical body

00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:59.500
 is part of the work of an MD.

00:03:00.979 --> 00:03:04.560
 Some of the medication providers will also do therapy.

00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:08.500
 And so a therapist can have like any number of credentials,

00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:10.939
 but just kind of depending on the practice,

00:03:10.939 --> 00:03:12.840
 that would be something important to know,

00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:17.420
 you know, whether they concentrate mostly on medications for mental health conditions

00:03:17.420 --> 00:03:21.379
 or whether they also integrate therapy into it.

00:03:21.379 --> 00:03:24.219
 So sometimes people have split treatment where they have, you know,

00:03:24.259 --> 00:03:27.340
 one person doing the therapy, one person doing medication management.

00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:31.780
 But sometimes, and this will usually be in private practice,

00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:36.219
 where they integrate both with that piece.

00:03:36.420 --> 00:03:37.920
 But if you want to talk a little bit more about that.

00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:40.859
 Yeah, so in terms of therapists, like if you're,

00:03:40.979 --> 00:03:42.859
 I think this is going to be an overwhelming process.

00:03:42.959 --> 00:03:44.060
 If you're like, I need therapy.

00:03:44.679 --> 00:03:46.079
 I know I need to talk to someone.

00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:49.500
 How do I possibly find who I should talk to?

00:03:50.679 --> 00:03:52.379
 And that's really overwhelming.

00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:53.399
 And I say that as a therapist,

00:03:53.399 --> 00:03:55.739
 I think it's really overwhelming to navigate the system.

00:03:55.899 --> 00:03:59.859
 So a few, we'll kind of get to the general professional side

00:03:59.859 --> 00:04:00.779
 and then the Christian side.

00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:04.419
 So in terms of therapists, a lot of people online

00:04:04.419 --> 00:04:08.740
 can sometimes call themselves therapists or counselors or that type of thing.

00:04:08.819 --> 00:04:10.759
 It's important to make sure somebody's licensed

00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:13.379
 if you're looking for a professional mental health treatment.

00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:18.000
 There's like life coaches and different people

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:22.579
 who might have like the term counselor or coach or something like that

00:04:22.579 --> 00:04:25.259
 who don't actually have a professional mental health license.

00:04:25.819 --> 00:04:27.540
 So you'll want to look in somebody online,

00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:31.060
 their profile should list like I'm a licensed social worker,

00:04:31.300 --> 00:04:35.740
 psychologist, or clinical mental health counselor

00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.740
 in the state of Connecticut.

00:04:37.100 --> 00:04:40.620
 Or they should be in the process of obtaining licensure,

00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:43.660
 which means they're still working toward their hours,

00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.340
 but they're under supervision of somebody who is licensed.

00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:47.759
 And that's fine too.

00:04:47.900 --> 00:04:51.080
 But sometimes I think I look at certain online profiles

00:04:51.080 --> 00:04:53.980
 and I'm like, oh, this person's marketing themselves as a therapist,

00:04:53.980 --> 00:04:57.259
 but they might not be a bad person to talk to for some things,

00:04:57.259 --> 00:05:00.920
 but they haven't actually obtained a professional licensure to be a therapist.

00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:02.060
 It's important to note that.

00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.519
 And we'll get into this in a little bit,

00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:08.459
 but there is a category of biblical counselors.

00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:11.899
 And we're going to talk a little bit about that

00:05:11.899 --> 00:05:14.639
 in terms of differences between biblical counselors

00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.240
 and professional mental health professionals.

00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:22.720
 But biblical counselors are not usually licensed therapists.

00:05:22.939 --> 00:05:28.639
 I suppose somebody could have a double sort of degree,

00:05:29.180 --> 00:05:31.560
 but biblical counselors are sort of a separate category.

00:05:31.699 --> 00:05:34.639
 They have not received professional mental health training.

00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.819
 So in terms of who do you look for,

00:05:40.819 --> 00:05:44.000
 I think it's really important.

00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:45.000
 And we're going to talk about like,

00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:46.159
 do you need to see a Christian?

00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.939
 And we'd love to hear kind of everybody's perspectives about that.

00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:53.000
 But finding somebody that you trust is really good

00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:56.040
 and finding somebody who just feels like a good fit.

00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:58.079
 And I usually tell people like,

00:05:58.159 --> 00:06:00.819
 if you've gone to see somebody three times

00:06:00.819 --> 00:06:02.379
 and after the third time, you're like,

00:06:02.659 --> 00:06:06.360
 I think that's a pretty good sign that you can look elsewhere.

00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.280
 Because if you're really opening up about really vulnerable things,

00:06:10.280 --> 00:06:14.180
 it's important to feel like the person understands you,

00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:15.120
 you can trust them.

00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:17.600
 Sometimes after the first time,

00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:19.420
 especially if it's your first time going to therapy,

00:06:19.420 --> 00:06:20.720
 it might feel so weird

00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:23.100
 that you might not necessarily feel connected

00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:24.400
 to that person right away.

00:06:24.819 --> 00:06:27.220
 But three times I think is usually enough

00:06:27.220 --> 00:06:29.759
 to have a gut feeling of like,

00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:30.900
 is this good or not good?

00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.280
 It's also great to get referrals from friends

00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.279
 or our elders to make professional mental health referrals.

00:06:39.539 --> 00:06:41.619
 So if you can get a recommendation,

00:06:42.379 --> 00:06:44.119
 like, oh, someone I know saw so.

00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:45.099
 And so that can be nice

00:06:45.099 --> 00:06:47.119
 just to have a little bit of a personal connection.

00:06:49.459 --> 00:06:51.399
 So yeah, those are a few notes.

00:06:51.459 --> 00:06:52.579
 Anything you'd add to that, Stephanie?

00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:57.279
 No, I think, and we can talk a little bit more

00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:00.599
 as we segue into kind of something we've heard often is,

00:07:00.659 --> 00:07:02.819
 you know, does my therapist or psychiatrist

00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:07.120
 need to be a Christian in order to really kind of understand that?

00:07:07.180 --> 00:07:09.519
 And I think we've, we talked about this a little bit

00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.899
 and we landed on, you know, it could be helpful,

00:07:13.060 --> 00:07:15.680
 but I think that depending on kind of what that topic

00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.079
 might look like,

00:07:17.139 --> 00:07:20.199
 but really that idea of, you know, opening yourself up,

00:07:20.259 --> 00:07:23.019
 do you feel like this person is trustworthy and competent?

00:07:23.719 --> 00:07:25.860
 Those are probably going to be more important.

00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:28.319
 And other factors such as like,

00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:29.500
 if they take your insurance,

00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:31.420
 if they're geographically located,

00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:33.660
 if they don't take insurance,

00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:35.560
 are they affordable in some way?

00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:38.759
 Those might be more salient factors

00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:40.379
 than is this person a Christian?

00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:41.899
 And I think I would also note that

00:07:41.899 --> 00:07:43.279
 even if someone is saying like,

00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.480
 oh, I'm a Christian therapist or psychiatrist, right?

00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.500
 That that spectrum of Christian beliefs

00:07:47.500 --> 00:07:50.620
 is so big as well

00:07:50.620 --> 00:07:52.740
 that even if they're saying that they're Christian,

00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:54.240
 that doesn't necessarily mean

00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:55.939
 that they hold the exact same beliefs,

00:07:56.379 --> 00:07:58.639
 core beliefs as you and the sense of the world.

00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:03.779
 And so even figuring out kind of where they might be

00:08:03.779 --> 00:08:06.919
 and how that translates into the therapy process

00:08:06.919 --> 00:08:09.180
 is something that shouldn't be assumed.

00:08:10.599 --> 00:08:13.019
 Were you going to say the term biblical counselor

00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:14.639
 and Christian counselor interchangeably,

00:08:15.339 --> 00:08:16.579
 or are there two distinctions?

00:08:16.979 --> 00:08:17.759
 Two distinctions.

00:08:18.259 --> 00:08:19.860
 So biblical counseling,

00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:22.459
 and we'll talk about that.

00:08:22.539 --> 00:08:25.000
 We might say biblical counseling for our next section,

00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.000
 but biblical counseling is folks

00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:30.240
 who are not trained mental health professionals.

00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:31.720
 Like they don't have graduate level training

00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:33.100
 in mental health treatment,

00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:35.039
 but they've gone through a program

00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:36.200
 for biblical counseling,

00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:39.720
 which is really the process of using prayer

00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.379
 and scripture exclusively

00:08:41.379 --> 00:08:45.240
 to treat mental illness or mental health diagnoses

00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:47.080
 versus a Christian counselor.

00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.700
 Usually a Christian therapist will be a Christian

00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:52.259
 and perhaps bring in prayer

00:08:52.259 --> 00:08:55.200
 or other sort of biblical principles

00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:55.899
 or things like that,

00:08:55.940 --> 00:08:58.820
 but they're also employing psychological treatments

00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:01.000
 that are sort of more broadly used.

00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:03.299
 So I'm curious.

00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:06.139
 So yeah, Stephanie and I had some different ideas around

00:09:06.139 --> 00:09:07.539
 when is it helpful

00:09:07.539 --> 00:09:09.460
 that you probably should see a Christian?

00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:12.180
 When does it more important to see someone

00:09:12.180 --> 00:09:15.160
 who is competent in your area

00:09:15.160 --> 00:09:16.379
 that you're seeking treatment for?

00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:18.460
 And there's a lot to be said about that,

00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:20.000
 but I'd love to hear from people

00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.600
 just as you think about seeking

00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.820
 mental health treatment therapists,

00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.060
 like how important does it feel to you

00:09:27.060 --> 00:09:28.780
 that they're a Christian or not?

00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:30.600
 And what have been your experiences with that?

00:09:30.680 --> 00:09:32.060
 Either way, we'd love to hear.

00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:34.080
 Either yours or people that you know.

00:09:35.259 --> 00:09:35.460
 Yeah.

00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:39.420
 I think for me,

00:09:39.540 --> 00:09:41.080
 as a person that's been recently

00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:42.360
 trying to seek that out,

00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.180
 I think it's been harder for me

00:09:46.180 --> 00:09:49.540
 trying to seek out a Christian therapist

00:09:49.540 --> 00:09:50.680
 or counselor or anything

00:09:50.680 --> 00:09:54.780
 because I feel like in a lot of different ways,

00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:57.720
 especially in the area that I live in,

00:09:57.820 --> 00:09:59.460
 I'm surrounded by

00:09:59.460 --> 00:10:05.100
 therapists that don't look like me

00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:06.120
 or don't understand

00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:07.420
 where I'm coming from.

00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.379
 It's like sometimes struggling mentally

00:10:10.379 --> 00:10:11.300
 in a,

00:10:13.300 --> 00:10:15.420
 like my day-to-day life

00:10:15.420 --> 00:10:18.460
 or like Christian life.

00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:20.320
 It's like,

00:10:20.460 --> 00:10:22.540
 it just seems so complicated

00:10:22.540 --> 00:10:24.680
 to talk to a certain type of people

00:10:24.680 --> 00:10:25.340
 sometimes.

00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:25.840
 Yeah.

00:10:26.700 --> 00:10:28.159
 I think that's like

00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:29.420
 the best thing for me.

00:10:30.700 --> 00:10:32.759
 It's like other aspects of identity

00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:33.720
 can matter too.

00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:34.820
 Yeah, for sure.

00:10:34.820 --> 00:10:35.660
 For sure.

00:10:36.020 --> 00:10:36.340
 Absolutely.

00:10:36.660 --> 00:10:36.780
 Yeah.

00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:38.640
 How about other people

00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:40.440
 who feel it's important

00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:41.100
 to see a Christian

00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:42.420
 or maybe hasn't been

00:10:42.420 --> 00:10:44.060
 pros and cons?

00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:45.800
 I think it's important.

00:10:46.220 --> 00:10:46.520
 Mm-hmm.

00:10:48.020 --> 00:10:48.280
 Yeah.

00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:49.140
 Tell me,

00:10:49.340 --> 00:10:49.540
 yeah,

00:10:49.780 --> 00:10:50.460
 say more what,

00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:52.120
 what has been,

00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.060
 yeah,

00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:54.160
 what has been helpful for you

00:10:54.160 --> 00:10:55.040
 about seeing a Christian?

00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:56.040
 They're saying beliefs

00:10:56.040 --> 00:10:59.020
 based on what God teaches us

00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:00.020
 in the Bible

00:11:00.019 --> 00:11:01.740
 and treating each other

00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:02.419
 and how to do

00:11:02.419 --> 00:11:03.840
 a Christian from God.

00:11:04.340 --> 00:11:04.679
 Mm-hmm.

00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:05.399
 Mm-hmm.

00:11:06.199 --> 00:11:06.460
 Yeah.

00:11:06.980 --> 00:11:07.139
 Yeah.

00:11:07.299 --> 00:11:08.600
 Because non-Christians

00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:09.340
 might not have,

00:11:09.460 --> 00:11:10.480
 they probably don't have

00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:11.539
 all the same values

00:11:11.539 --> 00:11:12.840
 and goals.

00:11:13.340 --> 00:11:13.759
 Mm-hmm.

00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:14.299
 Mm-hmm.

00:11:14.299 --> 00:11:14.639
 Mm-hmm.

00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:15.360
 Yeah.

00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:15.559
 Right.

00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:16.360
 And this is where

00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.299
 we kind of talked

00:11:17.299 --> 00:11:18.179
 a little bit about,

00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:19.120
 you know,

00:11:19.199 --> 00:11:20.539
 if you can't find

00:11:20.539 --> 00:11:21.639
 a Christian therapist,

00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.340
 that maybe it could be

00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:27.419
 enough that they're

00:11:27.419 --> 00:11:28.500
 faith-affirming,

00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:29.379
 right,

00:11:29.379 --> 00:11:30.080
 and so that they're

00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:31.399
 not trying to,

00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:32.779
 you know,

00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:34.139
 impose any sort of

00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:35.200
 their beliefs

00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:36.620
 or worldviews on you,

00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:37.879
 but really trying to

00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:39.519
 work within your framework

00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:40.419
 of understanding

00:11:40.419 --> 00:11:43.080
 and how you feel,

00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:44.399
 you know,

00:11:44.419 --> 00:11:46.200
 your goals are influenced

00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:47.340
 by Christianity.

00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:48.580
 And so I think that

00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:49.279
 there's a difference

00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:49.759
 between,

00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:50.519
 you know,

00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:51.720
 a therapist who's kind of

00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:53.879
 maybe actively telling you

00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:54.460
 some of the things

00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:54.940
 that you're bringing

00:11:54.940 --> 00:11:55.919
 into the room

00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.240
 are not helpful

00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:00.399
 and kind of dismissing it

00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:01.180
 versus somebody

00:12:01.180 --> 00:12:03.340
 who is genuinely curious

00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:04.480
 about, you know,

00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.080
 what matters to you

00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:08.240
 and how can we

00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:10.539
 work around this issue

00:12:10.539 --> 00:12:12.360
 so that what matters to you

00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:13.200
 gets accomplished.

00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:14.980
 And I think also

00:12:14.980 --> 00:12:15.560
 just kind of even

00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:16.340
 within Connecticut,

00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:17.720
 it may not even be an option

00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:20.440
 to see a Christian psychologist

00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:22.879
 or therapist

00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:24.259
 because they are few

00:12:24.259 --> 00:12:25.039
 and far between.

00:12:25.340 --> 00:12:26.340
 And so I think

00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:28.019
 having somebody

00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:28.939
 who is faith affirming

00:12:28.939 --> 00:12:29.779
 or at least open

00:12:29.779 --> 00:12:31.019
 and not trying to

00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:32.500
 kind of tell you

00:12:32.500 --> 00:12:33.199
 it doesn't matter

00:12:33.199 --> 00:12:34.899
 would be an appropriate

00:12:34.899 --> 00:12:36.039
 place to go.

00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.939
 So with that,

00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:39.299
 like,

00:12:41.379 --> 00:12:41.980
 when we get,

00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:42.240
 like,

00:12:42.319 --> 00:12:43.000
 stuck in that,

00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:44.779
 like,

00:12:44.839 --> 00:12:45.620
 we're going to build

00:12:45.620 --> 00:12:48.099
 telling us all the things

00:12:48.099 --> 00:12:48.679
 that we need,

00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:49.019
 like,

00:12:49.839 --> 00:12:50.699
 want to hear

00:12:50.699 --> 00:12:52.299
 versus some of the hard things

00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:53.199
 that we need to hear.

00:12:53.659 --> 00:12:54.480
 So just,

00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:54.699
 like,

00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:56.419
 I don't understand,

00:12:56.579 --> 00:12:56.699
 like,

00:12:56.740 --> 00:12:56.959
 you know,

00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.419
 I don't think I could,

00:13:00.419 --> 00:13:00.679
 like,

00:13:00.980 --> 00:13:02.339
 do the same thing

00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:02.639
 because,

00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:02.899
 like,

00:13:03.259 --> 00:13:04.840
 we have to be

00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:06.300
 little Christian people

00:13:06.300 --> 00:13:07.820
 in order to talk about

00:13:07.820 --> 00:13:08.940
 our struggles

00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:09.899
 and mental health

00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:10.240
 and,

00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:10.620
 like,

00:13:10.920 --> 00:13:11.820
 all these other issues

00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:12.460
 we have.

00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:13.180
 Like,

00:13:13.300 --> 00:13:14.600
 people outside of our circle

00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:15.879
 can't give us advice

00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:17.600
 or feedback

00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:18.139
 on,

00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:18.540
 like,

00:13:19.700 --> 00:13:20.700
 the good of the world

00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:21.300
 and stuff

00:13:21.300 --> 00:13:22.240
 that they don't believe

00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.560
 or what we believe

00:13:24.560 --> 00:13:25.200
 or how do we,

00:13:25.280 --> 00:13:25.620
 you know,

00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:26.720
 what they believe

00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:27.300
 until,

00:13:27.920 --> 00:13:28.200
 like,

00:13:28.259 --> 00:13:29.180
 we get to know them.

00:13:29.179 --> 00:13:30.319
 and their jobs

00:13:30.319 --> 00:13:31.279
 not to allow us

00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:32.019
 to get to know them

00:13:32.019 --> 00:13:32.759
 or be like that

00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:33.339
 more so

00:13:33.339 --> 00:13:35.459
 for them to help us

00:13:35.459 --> 00:13:36.659
 understand us.

00:13:37.319 --> 00:13:38.279
 So I'll know me.

00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:38.779
 Yeah.

00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:39.639
 Yeah.

00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:40.279
 No,

00:13:40.319 --> 00:13:40.879
 I think those are

00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:41.359
 good points.

00:13:41.379 --> 00:13:41.659
 A couple thoughts,

00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:42.159
 you know,

00:13:42.199 --> 00:13:43.259
 kind of along those lines

00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:43.439
 of,

00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:43.739
 like,

00:13:44.659 --> 00:13:46.199
 when do you,

00:13:47.019 --> 00:13:48.219
 when is it most helpful

00:13:48.219 --> 00:13:49.019
 to seek out a Christian

00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:50.439
 versus maybe when is it

00:13:50.439 --> 00:13:51.899
 not something

00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:52.899
 absolutely necessary?

00:13:53.099 --> 00:13:53.479
 I think,

00:13:54.139 --> 00:13:54.439
 so,

00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:54.879
 for instance,

00:13:54.979 --> 00:13:55.099
 like,

00:13:55.199 --> 00:13:56.259
 if your mental health

00:13:56.259 --> 00:13:57.339
 concerns are very

00:13:57.339 --> 00:13:58.620
 sort of interwoven

00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:00.440
 with spiritual concerns

00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:00.980
 as well,

00:14:01.100 --> 00:14:01.899
 so perhaps maybe

00:14:01.899 --> 00:14:02.580
 if you've experienced

00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:03.799
 spiritual abuse

00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:05.080
 and,

00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:07.240
 or abuse in a church context

00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:07.679
 and your,

00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:08.600
 your mental health

00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:09.700
 is very much tied

00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:09.860
 with,

00:14:09.940 --> 00:14:10.000
 like,

00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:10.960
 trying to find a way

00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.299
 forward in your faith

00:14:12.299 --> 00:14:14.139
 despite having experienced

00:14:14.139 --> 00:14:14.960
 spiritual abuse,

00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:15.940
 for me,

00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:17.480
 that would be harder

00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:18.399
 for me to see

00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:19.039
 not a Christian

00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:19.919
 for that personally,

00:14:20.060 --> 00:14:20.200
 right,

00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:20.720
 because it's like,

00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:20.879
 oh,

00:14:20.899 --> 00:14:21.700
 I really want someone

00:14:21.700 --> 00:14:22.560
 to help me find a way

00:14:22.560 --> 00:14:23.639
 forward in my faith.

00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:24.060
 Like,

00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:25.639
 and myself personally,

00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:26.779
 I've seen a few therapists,

00:14:26.899 --> 00:14:28.180
 I think two are Christians

00:14:28.179 --> 00:14:29.199
 and one is not

00:14:29.199 --> 00:14:30.279
 and I've had a really

00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:31.159
 good experience

00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.299
 with my current therapist

00:14:33.299 --> 00:14:34.120
 who's not a Christian

00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:35.779
 but I've had a different

00:14:35.779 --> 00:14:37.579
 kind of really valuable

00:14:37.579 --> 00:14:38.459
 experience with therapists

00:14:38.459 --> 00:14:38.959
 who are Christians,

00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:39.719
 I think just depending

00:14:39.719 --> 00:14:40.299
 on kind of what

00:14:40.299 --> 00:14:41.039
 you're looking for,

00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:41.399
 so if,

00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:41.859
 you know,

00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:42.719
 there's this spiritual

00:14:42.719 --> 00:14:44.459
 abuse issue

00:14:44.459 --> 00:14:46.479
 wanting to understand

00:14:46.479 --> 00:14:47.159
 how depression

00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:48.359
 and faith go together,

00:14:48.839 --> 00:14:49.620
 a Christian therapist

00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:51.579
 is probably best

00:14:51.579 --> 00:14:52.139
 for that

00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:52.859
 if you can find one.

00:14:53.219 --> 00:14:53.859
 If it's like,

00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:54.419
 for example,

00:14:54.599 --> 00:14:55.259
 you're dealing

00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:56.439
 with a tic disorder

00:14:56.439 --> 00:14:57.120
 and you need

00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:58.120
 a very specific

00:14:58.120 --> 00:14:59.100
 form of treatment,

00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:00.879
 it's called habit

00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:01.600
 reversal turning,

00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:02.340
 like to help you

00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:04.460
 not sort of prevent

00:15:04.460 --> 00:15:05.759
 verbal or motor tics,

00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:07.179
 it might be nice

00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:07.919
 to see a Christian

00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.399
 for that,

00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:08.580
 right,

00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:08.840
 like,

00:15:09.340 --> 00:15:10.759
 all things being equal,

00:15:10.819 --> 00:15:11.340
 I would probably

00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:12.279
 always rather see

00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:12.679
 a Christian

00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:13.439
 who had equal

00:15:13.439 --> 00:15:14.419
 competency

00:15:14.419 --> 00:15:16.100
 to somebody

00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:16.700
 who's not a Christian.

00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:18.159
 At the same time,

00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:19.759
 if there's no

00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:20.500
 Christian therapist

00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:21.299
 who specialize

00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:22.439
 in tic disorder

00:15:22.439 --> 00:15:22.979
 treatment

00:15:22.979 --> 00:15:23.799
 and there's

00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:24.379
 a non-Christian

00:15:24.379 --> 00:15:24.779
 therapist

00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:25.599
 who does,

00:15:26.899 --> 00:15:27.259
 who,

00:15:27.259 --> 00:15:27.459
 yes,

00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:28.159
 tic disorder

00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:29.719
 is like involuntary

00:15:29.719 --> 00:15:31.099
 noises or movements

00:15:31.099 --> 00:15:32.579
 that sometimes

00:15:32.579 --> 00:15:34.120
 people can engage in

00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.139
 and there's somebody

00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:37.799
 who has that special

00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:38.819
 area of competency

00:15:38.819 --> 00:15:39.740
 who's not a Christian

00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:40.799
 who's still open

00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:41.759
 to and receptive

00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:42.459
 to you talking

00:15:42.459 --> 00:15:43.319
 about your beliefs,

00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:44.379
 in that case,

00:15:44.439 --> 00:15:44.740
 I'd say,

00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:45.059
 hey,

00:15:45.259 --> 00:15:45.979
 it might be a good

00:15:45.979 --> 00:15:46.659
 idea to seek

00:15:46.659 --> 00:15:47.079
 the treatment

00:15:47.079 --> 00:15:47.620
 from somebody

00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:48.519
 with that specific

00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:49.139
 expertise.

00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:50.399
 Obviously,

00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:51.480
 there's a lot

00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:52.360
 of gray areas

00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:52.659
 in there.

00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:53.080
 Anxiety,

00:15:53.179 --> 00:15:53.519
 depression,

00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:54.179
 can sometimes

00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:55.840
 have an aspect

00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:56.480
 of faith,

00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:57.580
 but there's also

00:15:57.580 --> 00:15:58.639
 aspects that are

00:15:58.639 --> 00:15:59.379
 not about faith

00:15:59.379 --> 00:15:59.919
 and so I think

00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:00.519
 it really,

00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:02.220
 yeah,

00:16:02.299 --> 00:16:02.980
 I think it depends

00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:03.480
 on kind of

00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:04.720
 the amount

00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:05.399
 of specialty

00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:06.299
 that you need

00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:06.980
 in a provider

00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:08.039
 and like Stephanie

00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.519
 was saying,

00:16:08.620 --> 00:16:09.240
 unfortunately,

00:16:09.419 --> 00:16:09.819
 Connecticut

00:16:09.819 --> 00:16:11.360
 is not abundant

00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:12.439
 with Christian

00:16:12.439 --> 00:16:13.539
 therapists in general,

00:16:13.659 --> 00:16:14.220
 especially those

00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:15.080
 who have openings,

00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:17.439
 so we,

00:16:17.939 --> 00:16:18.759
 which is

00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:19.580
 a problem.

00:16:20.019 --> 00:16:21.139
 I've never lived

00:16:21.139 --> 00:16:21.580
 in a state

00:16:21.580 --> 00:16:22.179
 where it's such

00:16:22.179 --> 00:16:22.659
 a problem.

00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:24.500
 It's really hard.

00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:25.819
 So I think,

00:16:26.299 --> 00:16:26.620
 you know,

00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:27.519
 keeping in mind

00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:29.580
 the idea

00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:30.659
 of common grace,

00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:31.399
 like that God

00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:32.879
 has provided

00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:33.759
 knowledge and resources

00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:34.539
 and training

00:16:34.539 --> 00:16:37.179
 to many people

00:16:37.179 --> 00:16:38.740
 who could be helpful

00:16:38.740 --> 00:16:41.100
 and may or may

00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:41.879
 not be as helpful

00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:42.399
 as a Christian

00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:43.379
 therapist for certain

00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:43.819
 things,

00:16:43.819 --> 00:16:44.720
 but also could have

00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:45.600
 specialized areas

00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:46.460
 of competency

00:16:46.460 --> 00:16:47.819
 even if they're

00:16:47.819 --> 00:16:48.580
 not Christians.

00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:49.679
 Yeah,

00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:50.220
 anything you would

00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:50.659
 add to that,

00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:51.000
 Stephanie?

00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:52.379
 I think on the

00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:53.340
 medication piece,

00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:54.039
 I think it's

00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:54.799
 like just easy,

00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:55.460
 a little bit easier

00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:56.980
 to draw the comparison

00:16:56.980 --> 00:16:57.500
 to like,

00:16:57.559 --> 00:16:58.200
 do we need

00:16:58.200 --> 00:16:59.679
 a Christian

00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:00.759
 primary care doctor?

00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:01.360
 Do we need

00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.379
 a Christian OB-GYN

00:17:02.379 --> 00:17:02.919
 who has all

00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:04.279
 the same values

00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:04.819
 around like,

00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:05.940
 when does life start,

00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:06.220
 right?

00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:07.900
 And you may have

00:17:07.900 --> 00:17:08.779
 different views on that,

00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:09.440
 but I would say

00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:10.920
 the majority of people

00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:11.420
 who are able

00:17:11.420 --> 00:17:12.980
 to find a primary care

00:17:12.980 --> 00:17:13.599
 doctor that they

00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:14.279
 can click with

00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:14.940
 or an OB-GYN

00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:15.720
 who is competent

00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:17.779
 to perform a C-section,

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.360
 like they kind of

00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:20.299
 are able to work

00:17:20.299 --> 00:17:21.380
 with you around that.

00:17:21.500 --> 00:17:21.839
 And so,

00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:22.860
 again,

00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:24.299
 just trying to think

00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:24.579
 about,

00:17:24.620 --> 00:17:24.880
 you know,

00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:26.440
 mental illness

00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:27.620
 is different in some

00:17:27.620 --> 00:17:27.819
 ways,

00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:28.720
 but in a lot,

00:17:28.819 --> 00:17:29.079
 you know,

00:17:29.380 --> 00:17:30.380
 there's a lot of

00:17:30.380 --> 00:17:31.059
 overlap too

00:17:31.059 --> 00:17:31.620
 with kind of how

00:17:31.620 --> 00:17:32.380
 it manifests in the

00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:33.819
 body and how do we

00:17:33.819 --> 00:17:35.160
 choose our primary

00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:35.779
 care doctors,

00:17:35.860 --> 00:17:36.059
 right?

00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:36.980
 And we think about

00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:37.640
 other factors.

00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:39.600
 So it's just kind of

00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:40.120
 sometimes helpful

00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:40.820
 to think about

00:17:40.820 --> 00:17:41.680
 how do we treat

00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:42.220
 other medical

00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:43.240
 professionals as well

00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:44.320
 and what do we

00:17:44.320 --> 00:17:45.040
 expect of them.

00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:46.720
 I think psychiatric

00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:48.320
 or mental health

00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:50.240
 problems are different

00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:51.040
 because they deal

00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:52.120
 with our mind

00:17:52.120 --> 00:17:52.680
 and thinking

00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:53.860
 and our emotions.

00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:55.460
 We're just going

00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:56.340
 to a primary care

00:17:56.340 --> 00:17:56.840
 provider.

00:17:58.420 --> 00:17:58.900
 Yeah,

00:17:59.240 --> 00:17:59.460
 no,

00:17:59.520 --> 00:17:59.960
 absolutely.

00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:02.480
 Or an OB-GYN

00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:03.460
 or a whole other

00:18:03.460 --> 00:18:04.320
 cardiologist.

00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:06.180
 And I would say

00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:06.800
 like this is where

00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:07.680
 we try to balance

00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.279
 a little bit

00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.139
 about the sense

00:18:10.139 --> 00:18:11.019
 of like the brain

00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:12.480
 is an organ too,

00:18:12.659 --> 00:18:12.799
 right?

00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:13.839
 It's a physical

00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.240
 thing that also

00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:18.099
 can fail us

00:18:18.099 --> 00:18:18.599
 in the ways

00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:19.200
 that our hearts

00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.039
 can fail us

00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:21.539
 and our livers

00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:22.539
 can fail us.

00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:23.879
 And so there is

00:18:23.879 --> 00:18:24.859
 something about

00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:26.059
 medical care

00:18:26.059 --> 00:18:26.639
 kind of bringing

00:18:26.639 --> 00:18:27.399
 it back up

00:18:27.399 --> 00:18:28.859
 to a working state

00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:29.839
 that is very

00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:31.039
 similar to,

00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.339
 you know,

00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:35.220
 my liver is failing

00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:35.919
 and I need to

00:18:35.919 --> 00:18:36.779
 talk to somebody

00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:37.839
 about what I can

00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:39.440
 do to prevent

00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:40.259
 further damage,

00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:41.240
 how can I

00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:42.339
 kind of live

00:18:42.339 --> 00:18:42.960
 with this as a

00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:43.759
 chronic condition,

00:18:43.879 --> 00:18:44.000
 right?

00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:44.680
 I think that that

00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:45.779
 is true for a lot

00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:46.420
 of mental health

00:18:46.420 --> 00:18:47.440
 conditions as well.

00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:49.079
 And then I agree

00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:49.700
 that I think that

00:18:49.700 --> 00:18:50.339
 there is a certain

00:18:50.339 --> 00:18:51.500
 vulnerability to

00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:52.319
 talking about

00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:53.599
 the past

00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:54.259
 and emotions

00:18:54.259 --> 00:18:55.000
 and how we're

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.059
 dealing with that

00:18:56.059 --> 00:18:56.920
 that can,

00:18:57.619 --> 00:18:58.119
 that is a,

00:18:58.259 --> 00:18:59.399
 that is a little

00:18:59.399 --> 00:19:00.599
 separate from

00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.420
 just a very

00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:04.099
 straightforward

00:19:04.099 --> 00:19:05.379
 like procedure

00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:06.220
 kind of a thing.

00:19:06.360 --> 00:19:07.040
 But I would say,

00:19:07.100 --> 00:19:07.240
 you know,

00:19:07.280 --> 00:19:08.360
 in areas of

00:19:08.360 --> 00:19:09.840
 an eating disorder

00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:10.900
 where your

00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:11.700
 electrolytes are

00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:12.420
 out of balance

00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:12.980
 and your heart

00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:13.700
 is at risk

00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:14.880
 or where somebody

00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.660
 is psychotic

00:19:15.660 --> 00:19:16.740
 and it's due to

00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:18.220
 in part to a

00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:19.120
 dopamine imbalance

00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:19.880
 or there's somebody

00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:20.220
 who,

00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:21.440
 yeah,

00:19:21.620 --> 00:19:22.020
 exactly,

00:19:22.120 --> 00:19:22.260
 but,

00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:23.000
 you know,

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:23.560
 how do drugs

00:19:23.560 --> 00:19:24.540
 affect our bodies,

00:19:24.980 --> 00:19:25.420
 where are the

00:19:25.420 --> 00:19:25.720
 damage,

00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:26.120
 you know,

00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:26.540
 where are the

00:19:26.540 --> 00:19:26.920
 effects,

00:19:27.300 --> 00:19:27.820
 that kind of a

00:19:27.820 --> 00:19:27.940
 thing.

00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:28.380
 I think that

00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:28.860
 there is,

00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.320
 there is still

00:19:30.320 --> 00:19:31.799
 kind of more

00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:32.920
 clear biological

00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:35.259
 reasons and in

00:19:35.259 --> 00:19:35.680
 that case,

00:19:35.740 --> 00:19:36.660
 somebody with a

00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.600
 biological training

00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:38.440
 can be helpful

00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:40.600
 and I don't,

00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:41.440
 and it's a really

00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:41.980
 hard balance.

00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:42.380
 I think you're

00:19:42.380 --> 00:19:43.259
 right that it's,

00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:44.480
 you know,

00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:45.660
 we tended towards

00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:46.160
 like a very

00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:47.440
 materialist view

00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:48.299
 sometimes,

00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:48.640
 you know,

00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:49.700
 in secular culture

00:19:49.700 --> 00:19:50.019
 of,

00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:50.559
 you know,

00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:51.279
 mental health

00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:52.100
 is just

00:19:52.100 --> 00:19:53.519
 neurotransmitters

00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:55.019
 kind of running

00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:56.079
 amok or

00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.220
 it's just

00:19:57.220 --> 00:19:57.920
 like neural

00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:58.759
 circuitry kind

00:19:58.759 --> 00:19:59.259
 of a thing

00:19:59.259 --> 00:20:01.599
 versus maybe

00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:02.220
 sometimes over

00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:03.180
 spiritualizing,

00:20:03.379 --> 00:20:04.099
 you know,

00:20:04.139 --> 00:20:04.539
 some of the

00:20:04.539 --> 00:20:05.099
 depression and

00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:05.420
 anxiety,

00:20:05.539 --> 00:20:05.879
 but I think

00:20:05.879 --> 00:20:06.279
 we're really

00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:07.000
 trying to find

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:07.859
 kind of that

00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:08.740
 balance of how

00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:09.379
 do we integrate

00:20:09.379 --> 00:20:10.200
 both because it

00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.220
 is really a

00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:11.920
 combination of

00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:12.180
 both.

00:20:12.940 --> 00:20:13.539
 And our problem

00:20:13.539 --> 00:20:14.700
 with psychiatric

00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:15.420
 mental health

00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:16.619
 disorders is that

00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:17.339
 our brain is

00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:18.099
 enclosed in our

00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:19.599
 cranium and we

00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:20.980
 can't visualize it

00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:21.859
 like we can't

00:20:21.859 --> 00:20:22.940
 with other parts

00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:23.519
 of our body,

00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:23.940
 we can't

00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:24.539
 with an X-ray

00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:24.940
 a cat,

00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:26.019
 an MRI,

00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:26.940
 et cetera,

00:20:27.059 --> 00:20:27.360
 et cetera,

00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:28.340
 all this testing,

00:20:28.460 --> 00:20:28.840
 we're actually

00:20:28.840 --> 00:20:29.559
 looking at the

00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:30.080
 organs.

00:20:30.840 --> 00:20:31.580
 It's not that

00:20:31.580 --> 00:20:32.320
 easy with the

00:20:32.320 --> 00:20:32.700
 brain.

00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:33.100
 Yeah,

00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:33.740
 absolutely.

00:20:34.180 --> 00:20:34.440
 Yeah,

00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:35.080
 and that's why

00:20:35.080 --> 00:20:35.759
 it is so hard

00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:36.360
 to comprehend,

00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:36.600
 right?

00:20:36.600 --> 00:20:37.080
 I think that

00:20:37.080 --> 00:20:37.700
 kind of that

00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:38.980
 overlap of

00:20:38.980 --> 00:20:40.059
 neurology and

00:20:40.059 --> 00:20:40.759
 psychiatry is

00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:41.400
 sometimes tricky,

00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:42.000
 but where,

00:20:42.140 --> 00:20:42.960
 you know,

00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:44.039
 scans are able

00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:44.460
 to tell us,

00:20:44.539 --> 00:20:44.600
 oh,

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:45.180
 here's a tumor

00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:45.759
 that's causing

00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.100
 you,

00:20:46.299 --> 00:20:47.100
 you know,

00:20:47.180 --> 00:20:48.100
 damage versus,

00:20:48.620 --> 00:20:48.720
 oh,

00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:49.380
 here are these

00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:49.640
 things,

00:20:49.840 --> 00:20:50.039
 you know,

00:20:50.100 --> 00:20:50.740
 hormones and

00:20:50.740 --> 00:20:51.440
 neurotransmitters,

00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:52.120
 it's a little

00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:52.599
 bit harder.

00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:53.559
 It's easier

00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:54.199
 for therapy,

00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:54.859
 you can go in

00:20:54.859 --> 00:20:55.379
 there and do

00:20:55.379 --> 00:20:56.099
 surgery or

00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:56.599
 whatever you

00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:57.319
 need to do,

00:20:58.039 --> 00:20:58.279
 you know,

00:20:58.339 --> 00:20:58.939
 an ablation

00:20:58.939 --> 00:21:00.139
 and in the

00:21:00.139 --> 00:21:00.619
 brain,

00:21:01.099 --> 00:21:02.379
 you can't

00:21:02.379 --> 00:21:02.879
 do that.

00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:03.639
 It's challenging.

00:21:03.819 --> 00:21:04.359
 Or they used

00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:04.879
 to and it

00:21:04.879 --> 00:21:05.459
 did not turn

00:21:05.459 --> 00:21:06.159
 out so hard.

00:21:06.859 --> 00:21:07.179
 I said,

00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:07.399
 well,

00:21:07.439 --> 00:21:07.919
 they used to

00:21:07.919 --> 00:21:08.379
 do surgery

00:21:08.379 --> 00:21:09.119
 for kind

00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:09.239
 of,

00:21:09.399 --> 00:21:09.759
 like,

00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:10.059
 you know,

00:21:10.139 --> 00:21:10.559
 like that

00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:10.959
 could not

00:21:10.959 --> 00:21:11.500
 be treated,

00:21:11.679 --> 00:21:11.799
 you know,

00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:12.199
 mental health

00:21:12.199 --> 00:21:12.579
 conditions.

00:21:13.239 --> 00:21:13.959
 I think you

00:21:13.959 --> 00:21:15.459
 had a question

00:21:15.459 --> 00:21:15.759
 too,

00:21:15.879 --> 00:21:17.379
 or a comment.

00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:18.259
 I had a

00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:18.539
 comment,

00:21:18.679 --> 00:21:18.839
 yeah,

00:21:18.899 --> 00:21:19.279
 I was going

00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:19.619
 to speak

00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:19.859
 to the

00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:20.299
 vulnerability.

00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:21.779
 I think it's,

00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:22.079
 you know,

00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:22.579
 when I break

00:21:22.579 --> 00:21:23.219
 my arm,

00:21:24.219 --> 00:21:24.739
 I don't mind

00:21:24.739 --> 00:21:25.279
 someone looking

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:26.339
 at it and

00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:27.059
 sharing that,

00:21:27.179 --> 00:21:27.779
 but when,

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.159
 if someone has

00:21:29.159 --> 00:21:30.159
 something more

00:21:30.159 --> 00:21:31.039
 personal or

00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:32.119
 more mental

00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:32.799
 going on,

00:21:32.979 --> 00:21:33.479
 I think there's

00:21:33.479 --> 00:21:34.379
 a big vulnerability

00:21:34.379 --> 00:21:35.379
 aspect and

00:21:35.379 --> 00:21:36.879
 treatment is not,

00:21:36.919 --> 00:21:37.539
 it's not that

00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:38.259
 simple and it

00:21:38.259 --> 00:21:38.879
 doesn't always

00:21:38.879 --> 00:21:39.559
 make sense to

00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:40.219
 us and we

00:21:40.219 --> 00:21:40.719
 don't really,

00:21:41.019 --> 00:21:41.439
 you know,

00:21:41.479 --> 00:21:42.099
 we get kind

00:21:42.099 --> 00:21:42.739
 of caught in

00:21:42.739 --> 00:21:43.559
 our own mental

00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:44.559
 fog because,

00:21:44.719 --> 00:21:44.879
 you know,

00:21:44.959 --> 00:21:45.659
 broken arm,

00:21:45.779 --> 00:21:46.839
 I can trust

00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:47.819
 almost anybody

00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:49.019
 in a scrub

00:21:49.019 --> 00:21:49.959
 outfit for,

00:21:50.439 --> 00:21:52.039
 but other,

00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:53.939
 issues is not

00:21:53.939 --> 00:21:54.319
 that easy.

00:21:54.719 --> 00:21:55.199
 Yeah,

00:21:55.339 --> 00:21:55.799
 absolutely.

00:21:55.979 --> 00:21:56.419
 And I think

00:21:56.419 --> 00:21:57.199
 kind of to what

00:21:57.199 --> 00:21:57.659
 Stephanie was

00:21:57.659 --> 00:21:58.000
 saying,

00:21:58.639 --> 00:21:58.979
 for different

00:21:58.979 --> 00:21:59.159
 people,

00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:00.139
 the medication

00:22:00.139 --> 00:22:01.419
 prescribing piece

00:22:01.419 --> 00:22:02.379
 could be different

00:22:02.379 --> 00:22:03.139
 from the therapy

00:22:03.139 --> 00:22:03.519
 piece.

00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:03.959
 For me,

00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:04.500
 personally,

00:22:04.959 --> 00:22:05.779
 I'm more

00:22:05.779 --> 00:22:06.839
 comfortable seeing

00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:07.439
 somebody,

00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:08.119
 like medication

00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:08.959
 prescribers usually

00:22:08.959 --> 00:22:11.019
 see like once a

00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:12.619
 month or once

00:22:12.619 --> 00:22:13.319
 every few weeks.

00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:13.879
 I'm more

00:22:13.879 --> 00:22:14.359
 comfortable,

00:22:14.859 --> 00:22:15.339
 and you don't go

00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:15.939
 super in-depth,

00:22:16.139 --> 00:22:16.799
 it's more about

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:17.619
 side effects and

00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:18.719
 kind of like for

00:22:18.719 --> 00:22:19.739
 some medication

00:22:19.739 --> 00:22:20.299
 prescribers.

00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:21.899
 so that doesn't

00:22:21.899 --> 00:22:22.960
 feel as important

00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:23.639
 to me if they're

00:22:23.639 --> 00:22:24.039
 a Christian,

00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:25.399
 versus therapy,

00:22:25.639 --> 00:22:26.619
 an hour a week

00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:27.639
 really diving into

00:22:27.639 --> 00:22:28.539
 your trauma and

00:22:28.539 --> 00:22:29.359
 your life history

00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.000
 and your emotions,

00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:33.319
 that might be more

00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:34.099
 important to see a

00:22:34.099 --> 00:22:34.779
 Christian for many

00:22:34.779 --> 00:22:35.180
 people, right?

00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:35.879
 So it can kind of

00:22:35.879 --> 00:22:37.119
 vary based on the

00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:38.099
 level and that like

00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:38.960
 what you're looking

00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:39.539
 for, yeah, if you're

00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:40.299
 looking for medications

00:22:40.299 --> 00:22:41.059
 or therapy, but

00:22:41.059 --> 00:22:41.740
 that's a great point.

00:22:41.859 --> 00:22:42.000
 Yeah.

00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:42.879
 I think it's also

00:22:42.879 --> 00:22:44.680
 helpful to recognize

00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:46.139
 the wide spectrum

00:22:46.139 --> 00:22:47.799
 of self-identified

00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:48.539
 Christians.

00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:49.740
 like Stephanie

00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:50.299
 was saying.

00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:52.539
 Like you could go

00:22:52.539 --> 00:22:53.259
 to a Christian

00:22:53.259 --> 00:22:54.319
 therapist and

00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:54.859
 still be like,

00:22:54.899 --> 00:22:55.519
 oh, like this

00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:56.579
 person does,

00:22:56.740 --> 00:22:56.940
 you know,

00:22:56.980 --> 00:22:58.379
 is not on the

00:22:58.379 --> 00:23:01.220
 same level in

00:23:01.220 --> 00:23:01.879
 terms of thinking

00:23:01.879 --> 00:23:03.279
 about God and

00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:04.339
 holiness.

00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.319
 Yeah.

00:23:06.879 --> 00:23:07.440
 It's true.

00:23:07.579 --> 00:23:08.740
 I used to drive

00:23:08.740 --> 00:23:09.519
 to Hartford to

00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:10.980
 see a Christian

00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:11.740
 therapist who

00:23:11.740 --> 00:23:13.099
 ended up wanting

00:23:13.099 --> 00:23:13.779
 to realign my

00:23:13.779 --> 00:23:14.299
 heart chakra.

00:23:14.299 --> 00:23:20.700
 right.

00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:21.519
 Yeah.

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.539
 I've, uh, there's,

00:23:24.619 --> 00:23:25.119
 yeah, there's a

00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:25.240
 lot.

00:23:25.339 --> 00:23:25.940
 And so you can't

00:23:25.940 --> 00:23:26.519
 kind of tell from

00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:27.259
 somebody's website

00:23:27.259 --> 00:23:28.200
 profile all the

00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:29.619
 time, like what

00:23:29.619 --> 00:23:30.339
 Christian means.

00:23:30.339 --> 00:23:30.879
 And so that's why

00:23:30.879 --> 00:23:31.639
 often asking the

00:23:31.639 --> 00:23:32.819
 elders, asking a

00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:34.159
 friend for a

00:23:34.159 --> 00:23:34.680
 Christian therapist

00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:35.099
 recommendation.

00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:35.299
 Good.

00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:35.799
 Uh, yeah.

00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:37.759
 How often or how

00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:38.839
 likely is it that you

00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:39.619
 can in your first

00:23:39.619 --> 00:23:41.259
 session ask, like

00:23:41.259 --> 00:23:42.079
 spend time asking

00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:43.359
 them about them,

00:23:43.699 --> 00:23:44.899
 like interview them

00:23:44.899 --> 00:23:45.679
 as you're okay.

00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:46.119
 Yeah.

00:23:46.439 --> 00:23:46.919
 I didn't know what

00:23:46.919 --> 00:23:47.419
 that was like.

00:23:47.619 --> 00:23:47.899
 Yeah.

00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:49.659
 I think you

00:23:49.659 --> 00:23:50.299
 definitely can.

00:23:50.419 --> 00:23:51.119
 They, people have

00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:51.740
 different comfort

00:23:51.740 --> 00:23:52.460
 levels on what

00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:53.319
 they're willing to

00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:55.619
 answer depending

00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:57.079
 on their style and

00:23:57.079 --> 00:23:57.679
 kind of their

00:23:57.679 --> 00:23:58.759
 training and things

00:23:58.759 --> 00:23:59.279
 like that.

00:23:59.439 --> 00:24:00.619
 But especially if

00:24:00.619 --> 00:24:01.139
 you told them,

00:24:01.299 --> 00:24:02.379
 Hey, it's important

00:24:02.379 --> 00:24:03.799
 that somebody is

00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:05.199
 like understanding

00:24:05.199 --> 00:24:05.939
 my beliefs.

00:24:05.939 --> 00:24:06.639
 And that's why I'm

00:24:06.639 --> 00:24:06.960
 asking.

00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:07.639
 I feel like most

00:24:07.639 --> 00:24:08.199
 people would really

00:24:08.199 --> 00:24:08.899
 want to work with

00:24:08.899 --> 00:24:09.460
 you on that.

00:24:09.579 --> 00:24:09.960
 I would say.

00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:10.399
 Yeah.

00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:11.199
 Right.

00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:11.900
 I think it depends

00:24:11.900 --> 00:24:12.640
 on kind of what

00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:13.440
 type of therapy

00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:13.960
 they're trying to

00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:14.120
 do.

00:24:14.140 --> 00:24:14.240
 Right.

00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:14.940
 So again, if it's

00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:16.420
 like very behavioral

00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:18.340
 focused learning

00:24:18.340 --> 00:24:19.220
 skills, they probably

00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:20.000
 are happy to tell

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:20.940
 you their credentials

00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:22.039
 and kind of where

00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:22.759
 they're coming from

00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:23.620
 and their philosophy

00:24:23.620 --> 00:24:24.220
 around it.

00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:25.279
 But if somebody's

00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:25.720
 like, Hey, how

00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:26.360
 many kids do you

00:24:26.360 --> 00:24:26.799
 have?

00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:27.220
 And like, where

00:24:27.220 --> 00:24:27.860
 do you live?

00:24:27.860 --> 00:24:28.559
 Like, that might

00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.940
 come off a little

00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:31.720
 different.

00:24:32.779 --> 00:24:33.680
 But you can ask

00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:34.160
 and it's up to

00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:35.059
 them to say, Oh,

00:24:35.120 --> 00:24:36.080
 I answer this and

00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:36.259
 that.

00:24:36.340 --> 00:24:36.840
 So you can ask

00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:37.580
 whatever you want

00:24:37.580 --> 00:24:38.120
 and they can,

00:24:38.120 --> 00:24:39.100
 they can answer.

00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:39.480
 Yeah.

00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:39.779
 Carolyn.

00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:41.099
 How do you guys

00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:41.700
 think about it?

00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:42.399
 Because you both

00:24:42.399 --> 00:24:43.240
 are Christians

00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:44.619
 who are therapists

00:24:44.619 --> 00:24:45.619
 but wouldn't

00:24:45.619 --> 00:24:48.399
 necessarily promote

00:24:48.399 --> 00:24:49.019
 yourselves as

00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:49.879
 Christian therapists

00:24:49.879 --> 00:24:51.339
 in your work

00:24:51.339 --> 00:24:51.960
 environment.

00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:53.279
 Yeah.

00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:55.500
 I mean, it's,

00:24:55.579 --> 00:24:56.099
 yeah, so we,

00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.960
 we work with a

00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:00.079
 wide variety of

00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:01.019
 students, mostly

00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:01.960
 students who

00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:02.559
 aren't Christians.

00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:02.679
 Christians.

00:25:02.679 --> 00:25:04.639
 And so I'm, I'm

00:25:04.639 --> 00:25:06.159
 really like, I

00:25:06.159 --> 00:25:07.179
 never hide it,

00:25:07.179 --> 00:25:07.419
 right?

00:25:07.419 --> 00:25:08.039
 Like I'm never

00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:08.480
 trying to hide

00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:08.819
 anything.

00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:09.299
 And if somebody

00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:09.779
 asks, I'll

00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:10.440
 absolutely tell

00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:10.619
 them.

00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:10.899
 And I think

00:25:10.899 --> 00:25:11.279
 it's pretty

00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:12.480
 widely known

00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.619
 at our, in

00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:14.000
 our setting

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:14.720
 that we are

00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.359
 Christians.

00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:18.200
 Um, but if

00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:18.899
 somebody is not

00:25:18.899 --> 00:25:20.519
 a Christian and

00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:21.639
 that's, they're

00:25:21.639 --> 00:25:22.379
 not coming in

00:25:22.379 --> 00:25:22.960
 for Christian

00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:23.700
 concerns, it

00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:24.159
 might not be

00:25:24.159 --> 00:25:24.960
 relevant for me

00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:25.779
 to share that,

00:25:25.899 --> 00:25:26.839
 you know, probably

00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:28.339
 won't be helpful

00:25:28.339 --> 00:25:29.059
 for them in that

00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:29.539
 moment.

00:25:29.539 --> 00:25:30.500
 But I also

00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:31.720
 don't like keep

00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:32.180
 it a secret.

00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:34.079
 Um, I think

00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:34.700
 it's tricky in

00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:36.619
 terms of kind

00:25:36.619 --> 00:25:37.259
 of as a culture,

00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:37.839
 we are shifting

00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.579
 towards, you

00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:39.200
 know, like what

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.139
 are our identities

00:25:40.139 --> 00:25:40.700
 are various

00:25:40.700 --> 00:25:41.440
 identities and

00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:42.420
 really wanting a

00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:43.200
 match in terms

00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:43.879
 of identities.

00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.259
 What, you know,

00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:46.579
 race, gender

00:25:46.579 --> 00:25:47.500
 orientation,

00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:48.819
 religion, that

00:25:48.819 --> 00:25:49.480
 kind of a thing.

00:25:49.539 --> 00:25:50.159
 And so sometimes

00:25:50.159 --> 00:25:50.920
 it just isn't

00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:51.639
 possible.

00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:52.740
 Um, but sometimes

00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:53.420
 we do get like

00:25:53.420 --> 00:25:53.779
 quote unquote

00:25:53.779 --> 00:25:54.359
 matched.

00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.099
 And I think it

00:25:55.099 --> 00:25:55.680
 is actually

00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.220
 interesting that

00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:56.879
 like most of

00:25:56.879 --> 00:25:58.379
 the people, at

00:25:58.379 --> 00:25:58.740
 least in my

00:25:58.740 --> 00:25:59.240
 experience who,

00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:00.019
 who are even

00:26:00.019 --> 00:26:00.779
 asking for a

00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:01.099
 quote unquote

00:26:01.099 --> 00:26:01.759
 Christian therapist

00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:02.380
 when they talk

00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:02.920
 about the things

00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:03.460
 that are bringing

00:26:03.460 --> 00:26:05.160
 them in.

00:26:05.539 --> 00:26:07.079
 Um, it may just,

00:26:07.339 --> 00:26:08.079
 it may be more

00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:08.500
 that they just

00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:08.859
 want somebody

00:26:08.859 --> 00:26:09.299
 who's not going

00:26:09.299 --> 00:26:09.980
 to judge them,

00:26:10.120 --> 00:26:10.559
 right?

00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:11.299
 Like who's not

00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:11.720
 going to say,

00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:12.420
 oh, your belief

00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:13.019
 in God is so

00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:14.480
 infantile versus

00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:15.460
 like here is my

00:26:15.460 --> 00:26:16.039
 thing that I'm

00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:16.779
 dealing with that,

00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:18.059
 that I'm wrestling

00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:19.460
 with the Lord that

00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:20.299
 really needs like

00:26:20.299 --> 00:26:21.400
 biblical, you know,

00:26:21.500 --> 00:26:22.839
 biblical advice to

00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:23.519
 weigh on, right?

00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:24.440
 And so I think a

00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:25.359
 lot of that desire

00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:26.059
 is around like,

00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:27.539
 which is common to

00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:28.180
 all of us, right?

00:26:28.180 --> 00:26:29.060
 It is, can you

00:26:29.060 --> 00:26:29.820
 understand me?

00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:30.600
 Can you respect

00:26:30.600 --> 00:26:30.920
 me?

00:26:31.620 --> 00:26:33.100
 Um, and so again,

00:26:33.100 --> 00:26:33.759
 I think that that's

00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:34.480
 kind of the more

00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:35.360
 salient factors when

00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:36.539
 we are limited, you

00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:37.060
 know, the side of

00:26:37.060 --> 00:26:38.560
 heaven with who is

00:26:38.560 --> 00:26:39.380
 available and who

00:26:39.380 --> 00:26:40.060
 can see us.

00:26:40.060 --> 00:26:40.360
 Yeah.

00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:42.360
 I have a kind of

00:26:42.360 --> 00:26:43.220
 generalized question.

00:26:43.340 --> 00:26:45.240
 So I'm just curious,

00:26:46.180 --> 00:26:46.799
 in general,

00:26:46.940 --> 00:26:49.420
 psychologists like you,

00:26:49.580 --> 00:26:50.620
 how much do they

00:26:50.620 --> 00:26:53.340
 understand like the

00:26:53.340 --> 00:26:54.640
 pharmacology involved,

00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.520
 like the different

00:26:56.520 --> 00:26:57.759
 antidepressants like

00:26:57.759 --> 00:26:59.400
 benzodiazepines and

00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:02.000
 SSRIs, SNRIs,

00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:03.759
 tricyclic antidepressants,

00:27:03.840 --> 00:27:04.680
 do most psychologists

00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:05.940
 understand that?

00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:08.380
 I wouldn't say so.

00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:08.700
 Yeah.

00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:10.020
 Yeah.

00:27:10.300 --> 00:27:12.040
 I think, yeah, which

00:27:12.040 --> 00:27:13.180
 is definitely good to,

00:27:13.300 --> 00:27:14.440
 I mean, I have a general

00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:16.200
 idea, especially more

00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:17.580
 SSRIs because that's,

00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:20.160
 you know, I hear about

00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.300
 them more anecdotally

00:27:21.300 --> 00:27:23.340
 and take them.

00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:25.820
 But, but, you know,

00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:27.259
 I think it's important

00:27:27.259 --> 00:27:28.240
 to consider somebody's

00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:29.840
 like degree specialty

00:27:29.840 --> 00:27:31.460
 really for, for what

00:27:31.460 --> 00:27:31.900
 you're going for.

00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:33.200
 So if you are wanting

00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.080
 medication advice, if

00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:37.140
 your psychologist is

00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:37.820
 giving you medication

00:27:37.820 --> 00:27:38.700
 advice, that's a red

00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:40.040
 flag actually, because

00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:41.400
 like somebody should

00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:42.259
 really have the degree

00:27:42.259 --> 00:27:43.300
 training like Stephanie

00:27:43.300 --> 00:27:44.480
 to be able to weigh in

00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:44.779
 on that.

00:27:44.860 --> 00:27:45.820
 And so sometimes people

00:27:45.820 --> 00:27:46.580
 try to kind of get

00:27:46.580 --> 00:27:47.860
 outside of their area of

00:27:47.859 --> 00:27:50.699
 expertise and weigh in

00:27:50.699 --> 00:27:51.379
 on what you, it's

00:27:51.379 --> 00:27:52.299
 appropriate for your

00:27:52.299 --> 00:27:53.159
 therapist to say, hey,

00:27:53.179 --> 00:27:54.039
 I would really encourage

00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:55.039
 you to take medication.

00:27:55.219 --> 00:27:56.019
 That's appropriate.

00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:56.779
 Or at least get a

00:27:56.779 --> 00:27:57.500
 medication consultation.

00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:58.299
 To get a consultation,

00:27:58.539 --> 00:27:58.799
 exactly.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:27:59.919
 But it wouldn't be

00:27:59.919 --> 00:28:00.740
 appropriate for them to

00:28:00.740 --> 00:28:01.199
 say, I think you

00:28:01.199 --> 00:28:01.859
 should consider it.

00:28:01.859 --> 00:28:02.339
 Yeah.

00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:02.439
 Yeah.

00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:04.219
 Yeah.

00:28:05.439 --> 00:28:05.839
 Exactly.

00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:08.119
 And, right.

00:28:08.259 --> 00:28:09.059
 And I think, again, it

00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:10.159
 speaks to the brokenness

00:28:10.159 --> 00:28:11.079
 of the mental health care

00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:12.119
 system because there is

00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:13.279
 such a shortage of

00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:14.519
 like medication, mental

00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:15.139
 health medication

00:28:15.139 --> 00:28:16.879
 providers that PC, like

00:28:16.879 --> 00:28:17.799
 primary care doctors,

00:28:17.859 --> 00:28:18.959
 are often doing the

00:28:18.959 --> 00:28:20.240
 medication piece.

00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:21.099
 And there was a, there

00:28:21.099 --> 00:28:21.939
 was like a movement

00:28:21.939 --> 00:28:24.039
 around, which is not to

00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:24.919
 say that PCPs can't do

00:28:24.919 --> 00:28:25.939
 a good job, but just

00:28:25.939 --> 00:28:27.019
 there is not somebody

00:28:27.019 --> 00:28:28.259
 who necessarily has that

00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:29.919
 specialized training.

00:28:29.919 --> 00:28:31.219
 And also there was a

00:28:31.219 --> 00:28:31.979
 movement in Connecticut

00:28:31.979 --> 00:28:33.159
 to allow psychologists

00:28:33.159 --> 00:28:34.479
 to go through some

00:28:34.479 --> 00:28:35.339
 training to prescribe

00:28:35.339 --> 00:28:35.899
 medications.

00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:38.659
 And that may happen,

00:28:38.939 --> 00:28:41.099
 but psychologists to

00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:42.199
 prescribe medication

00:28:42.199 --> 00:28:43.639
 because that would at

00:28:43.639 --> 00:28:46.019
 least widen the group

00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:47.400
 of people who can, who

00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:48.220
 can help with that

00:28:48.220 --> 00:28:48.500
 piece.

00:28:49.339 --> 00:28:50.220
 But I think there were

00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:51.339
 enough concerns raised,

00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:52.279
 at least in this moment,

00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.579
 to kind of put a pause

00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:53.980
 on that.

00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:54.680
 Yeah.

00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:55.720
 Some psychologists

00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:57.400
 wouldn't prefer to do

00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:57.539
 that.

00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:01.099
 Well, there's so much, so

00:29:01.099 --> 00:29:01.599
 much good discussion.

00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:02.379
 Maybe we should move on

00:29:02.379 --> 00:29:03.039
 to the what.

00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:05.740
 But if we would love to

00:29:05.740 --> 00:29:06.779
 hear other comments too,

00:29:06.859 --> 00:29:07.539
 as we have time at the

00:29:07.539 --> 00:29:09.019
 end about whether or not

00:29:09.019 --> 00:29:10.019
 to see a Christian, when

00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:11.299
 to see a Christian or not,

00:29:11.500 --> 00:29:12.920
 there's a lot to think

00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:13.299
 about there.

00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:15.519
 So in terms of the what

00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:17.899
 is therapy, I mean, I

00:29:17.899 --> 00:29:19.839
 think this is not

00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:20.920
 necessarily always obvious,

00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:21.200
 right?

00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:21.839
 Especially if you haven't

00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:22.399
 been to therapy, like

00:29:22.399 --> 00:29:24.119
 when you go, what exactly

00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:25.000
 do you do?

00:29:25.199 --> 00:29:26.359
 Like what can you

00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:26.799
 expect?

00:29:26.939 --> 00:29:27.799
 What can you not expect?

00:29:28.139 --> 00:29:29.119
 So there are different

00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.239
 types of therapies.

00:29:30.419 --> 00:29:31.319
 Generally, individual

00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:32.139
 therapy, you're sitting

00:29:32.139 --> 00:29:33.719
 down one-on-one with a

00:29:33.719 --> 00:29:35.079
 professional talking

00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:35.959
 about what's bothering

00:29:35.959 --> 00:29:36.759
 you, and they're

00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:38.399
 helping you relieve

00:29:38.399 --> 00:29:39.079
 your symptoms.

00:29:39.479 --> 00:29:41.059
 But that can look so

00:29:41.059 --> 00:29:42.379
 many different ways, of

00:29:42.379 --> 00:29:42.559
 course.

00:29:42.699 --> 00:29:44.759
 And so a very general

00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:46.659
 sketch of what things

00:29:46.659 --> 00:29:47.279
 could look like.

00:29:48.419 --> 00:29:49.599
 One form of therapy is

00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:51.199
 called CBT, cognitive

00:29:51.199 --> 00:29:52.279
 behavioral therapy.

00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:52.359
 anxiety.

00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:54.399
 This really lends

00:29:54.399 --> 00:29:55.839
 itself well to anxiety

00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:56.599
 disorders.

00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:59.000
 It's especially commonly

00:29:59.000 --> 00:29:59.519
 used for anxiety

00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:00.599
 disorders, often for

00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:02.980
 depression, usually used

00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:04.139
 for OCD in some

00:30:04.139 --> 00:30:04.619
 capacity.

00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:07.299
 So this type of therapy

00:30:07.299 --> 00:30:08.259
 is really focused on

00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:09.700
 helping change your

00:30:09.700 --> 00:30:11.240
 thoughts and how helping

00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:12.099
 change your thoughts can

00:30:12.099 --> 00:30:12.899
 help you feel better.

00:30:13.339 --> 00:30:15.779
 So for example, let's

00:30:15.779 --> 00:30:16.599
 say somebody has really

00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:18.279
 severe test anxiety, like

00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:19.799
 a student has bad test

00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:20.200
 anxiety.

00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:21.279
 Every night before a

00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:22.079
 test, they're throwing

00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:23.740
 up, they can't sleep,

00:30:23.899 --> 00:30:25.220
 they can't function the

00:30:25.220 --> 00:30:27.059
 day before because

00:30:27.059 --> 00:30:27.919
 they're convinced they're

00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:29.039
 going to fail, even

00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:29.500
 though they've never

00:30:29.500 --> 00:30:30.759
 failed a test before.

00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:32.359
 That person would be a

00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:33.359
 really, really good

00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:35.079
 candidate for CBT because

00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:36.079
 the therapist would say,

00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:37.939
 hey, like, let's kind of

00:30:37.939 --> 00:30:38.879
 examine the facts.

00:30:38.899 --> 00:30:40.379
 Like, you've never, you've

00:30:40.379 --> 00:30:41.179
 never failed a test

00:30:41.179 --> 00:30:41.639
 before.

00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:42.960
 It's unlikely that you're

00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:44.019
 going to fail it this

00:30:44.019 --> 00:30:44.279
 time.

00:30:44.379 --> 00:30:45.059
 Obviously, it's a little

00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:45.899
 bit more in-depth than

00:30:45.899 --> 00:30:46.939
 that, but that's kind of

00:30:46.939 --> 00:30:47.779
 the general approach is

00:30:47.779 --> 00:30:48.839
 helping them change their

00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:51.859
 thoughts and beliefs and

00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:53.240
 helping them think more

00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:54.879
 sort of realistically and

00:30:54.879 --> 00:30:56.199
 less self-critically.

00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.240
 So I think CBT often can

00:30:58.240 --> 00:30:59.720
 feel pretty comfortable for

00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:01.779
 Christians because it does

00:31:01.779 --> 00:31:04.599
 align with our, as

00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:05.519
 Christians, our belief in

00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:06.819
 right thinking and right

00:31:06.819 --> 00:31:07.379
 beliefs.

00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:09.259
 So even Stephanie pointed

00:31:09.259 --> 00:31:12.039
 out this verse when a

00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:13.359
 psalmist is asking, where's

00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:13.959
 your God?

00:31:14.179 --> 00:31:16.299
 These things I remember as I

00:31:16.299 --> 00:31:17.720
 pour out my soul, how I

00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:18.680
 used to go to the house

00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:19.599
 of God under the

00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:20.639
 protection of the mighty

00:31:20.639 --> 00:31:23.159
 one with shouts of joy and

00:31:23.159 --> 00:31:24.259
 praise among the festive

00:31:24.259 --> 00:31:24.740
 throng.

00:31:25.159 --> 00:31:26.440
 Why, my soul, are you

00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:27.180
 downcast?

00:31:27.339 --> 00:31:29.139
 Why so disturbed within me?

00:31:29.399 --> 00:31:31.099
 Put your hope in God, for I

00:31:31.099 --> 00:31:32.539
 will yet praise him, my

00:31:32.539 --> 00:31:33.579
 savior and my God.

00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:35.519
 So this person is kind of

00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:37.480
 doing CBT on himself, right?

00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:39.159
 Here he's saying, why are you

00:31:39.159 --> 00:31:39.879
 so downcast?

00:31:40.059 --> 00:31:41.099
 Remember these things,

00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:42.279
 remember these truths.

00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:46.319
 And that's oversimplified,

00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:47.420
 but that's generally what

00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:49.279
 CBT is trying to do.

00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:51.119
 CBT is often usually more

00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:53.139
 time limited, so it can be

00:31:53.139 --> 00:31:57.359
 like 10 sessions and it's

00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:58.039
 more targeted.

00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:01.579
 So that is one form of

00:32:01.579 --> 00:32:02.599
 treatment that's out there.

00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:06.720
 Basically, so like if I'm

00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.279
 talking with Stephanie and

00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:09.339
 I'm the therapist and

00:32:09.339 --> 00:32:10.220
 Stephanie's coming in and

00:32:10.220 --> 00:32:11.460
 saying, hey, I'm really

00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:13.380
 anxious about what people

00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:14.480
 are thinking about me, I

00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:15.240
 can't get it out of my

00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:15.840
 head what people are

00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:17.579
 thinking about me, then I

00:32:17.579 --> 00:32:18.360
 would talk to Stephanie and

00:32:18.360 --> 00:32:19.640
 say, okay, let's like write

00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:20.539
 down your thoughts.

00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:21.519
 So I would have Stephanie

00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:22.960
 keep track of her thoughts

00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:23.700
 throughout the day.

00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:25.640
 Like she'll say like, oh, I

00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:26.819
 think somebody hates me.

00:32:26.940 --> 00:32:28.220
 I think I'm a bad friend.

00:32:28.340 --> 00:32:29.059
 Somebody's mad at me.

00:32:29.100 --> 00:32:29.559
 She'd write down the

00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:29.759
 thoughts.

00:32:29.860 --> 00:32:30.779
 Then she would bring it

00:32:30.779 --> 00:32:31.519
 back to session.

00:32:31.900 --> 00:32:33.400
 This is what might happen.

00:32:33.500 --> 00:32:34.759
 And then I might say, okay,

00:32:34.779 --> 00:32:35.819
 let's go through these.

00:32:35.900 --> 00:32:37.000
 Like, do you think that's

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:37.480
 true?

00:32:37.660 --> 00:32:39.019
 What alternatives to that

00:32:39.019 --> 00:32:39.740
 might there be?

00:32:39.740 --> 00:32:41.140
 What are you believing

00:32:41.140 --> 00:32:42.400
 about yourself that might

00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:43.059
 not be true?

00:32:43.120 --> 00:32:44.319
 If I was a Christian CBT

00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.039
 therapist, I might say, what

00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:47.039
 what is God?

00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:49.299
 What might God say that

00:32:49.299 --> 00:32:50.079
 might be different from

00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:51.160
 what what you're saying?

00:32:52.380 --> 00:32:53.839
 And I think there's a lot

00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:55.579
 around CBT of just even

00:32:55.579 --> 00:32:56.759
 so sometimes people are

00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:57.980
 like, oh, I just feel

00:32:57.980 --> 00:32:59.160
 really tense in my body.

00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:00.079
 I feel really anxious.

00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:01.039
 I can't sleep.

00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:02.579
 You know, they've kind of

00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:03.259
 gotten all the medical

00:33:03.259 --> 00:33:04.500
 piece checked out, but

00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:06.120
 they're not aware of kind

00:33:06.120 --> 00:33:07.319
 of what are the thoughts and

00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:08.359
 circumstances that are

00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:09.879
 bringing out that tenseness

00:33:09.879 --> 00:33:11.099
 or inability to sleep.

00:33:11.419 --> 00:33:12.460
 So I think part of therapy

00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:14.079
 is even learning how do we

00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:15.579
 monitor the thoughts that

00:33:15.579 --> 00:33:16.480
 are going through our head?

00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.799
 Where are we noticing that

00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:20.200
 we're getting really upset?

00:33:20.379 --> 00:33:20.500
 Right.

00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:23.519
 You know, and so learning how

00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:24.779
 to pay attention to our

00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:25.879
 thoughts is kind of that

00:33:25.879 --> 00:33:26.619
 first step.

00:33:26.740 --> 00:33:27.639
 And then like Alina was

00:33:27.639 --> 00:33:29.480
 saying, really questioning

00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:30.559
 ourselves a little bit like,

00:33:30.659 --> 00:33:32.220
 oh, even if this feels

00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:33.619
 really true, you know, my

00:33:33.619 --> 00:33:34.559
 friend didn't respond to a

00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:35.399
 text message for a couple

00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:36.780
 hours, they must be really

00:33:36.780 --> 00:33:37.400
 mad at me.

00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:38.500
 And even if that feels

00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:40.420
 true, is there a way I can

00:33:40.420 --> 00:33:41.980
 talk back to myself, ask

00:33:41.980 --> 00:33:42.960
 myself like, okay, you

00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:44.240
 know, is it possible my

00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:45.660
 friend kind of got busy and

00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:46.660
 forgot to respond and

00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:47.440
 they'll respond later?

00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.519
 Is it possible that maybe

00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:50.740
 their phone broke or

00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:51.380
 something like that?

00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:51.519
 Right.

00:33:51.540 --> 00:33:53.900
 So again, taking a step

00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:56.240
 back, differentiating

00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:57.080
 between like what that

00:33:57.080 --> 00:33:59.180
 automatic way of assuming

00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:00.780
 somebody is mad at us or

00:34:00.780 --> 00:34:03.780
 not liking us and being

00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:05.160
 able to question, well, what

00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.019
 evidence do I have for this

00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:07.680
 or against this?

00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.000
 And is there a slight

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.239
 possibility it's not so

00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:11.460
 personal as, oh, my friend

00:34:11.460 --> 00:34:12.759
 deliberately is ignoring me

00:34:12.759 --> 00:34:13.579
 because I did something

00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:14.219
 wrong to them.

00:34:14.739 --> 00:34:15.179
 Yeah.

00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:18.639
 So I think we're in CBT.

00:34:19.579 --> 00:34:21.019
 So is it the form of like

00:34:21.019 --> 00:34:23.159
 stop thinking that?

00:34:23.619 --> 00:34:24.380
 Uh-huh.

00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:25.099
 So like.

00:34:25.099 --> 00:34:25.699
 Kind of.

00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:26.019
 Yeah.

00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:26.659
 Yeah.

00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:27.779
 So like.

00:34:28.259 --> 00:34:28.500
 Go ahead.

00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:31.559
 So I think the idea of like

00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:32.619
 kind of stopping in that

00:34:32.619 --> 00:34:34.380
 moment to notice what's

00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:36.780
 happening and then thinking,

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:37.800
 you know, kind of paying

00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.760
 attention to what are our

00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:40.940
 thoughts in that moment?

00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:43.280
 And is there a different

00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:44.599
 way to think about it?

00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.539
 And is there maybe a

00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:47.219
 different way to act around

00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:47.559
 it?

00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:48.679
 Might be kind of.

00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:49.659
 That's what I would say.

00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:53.460
 It was introduced to me

00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:55.940
 like in school.

00:34:55.940 --> 00:34:59.099
 Not like I went to school

00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:00.240
 before, but like.

00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:01.519
 Uh-huh.

00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:03.380
 We had to go to groups.

00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:05.019
 I went to a private school

00:35:05.019 --> 00:35:05.460
 in Arizona.

00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:07.380
 It was like kind of

00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:08.579
 Christian-based little bitch.

00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:09.519
 But it was like.

00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:11.360
 Yeah, very intense.

00:35:11.980 --> 00:35:13.200
 But it's like it was

00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:14.039
 introduced to us.

00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:14.519
 That's like.

00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:18.559
 From acting on impulse.

00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:19.519
 Stuff like that.

00:35:20.780 --> 00:35:21.679
 Card stuff.

00:35:22.019 --> 00:35:22.200
 Right.

00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:22.900
 People were playing.

00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:23.340
 Yep.

00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:23.740
 Yep.

00:35:23.740 --> 00:35:23.960
 Yep.

00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:24.420
 In and down.

00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:25.340
 Faking and riding.

00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:26.000
 Yeah.

00:35:26.100 --> 00:35:27.340
 But mostly like.

00:35:27.660 --> 00:35:28.900
 Just geared towards like.

00:35:30.240 --> 00:35:30.519
 Yeah.

00:35:30.600 --> 00:35:31.280
 I think it was like

00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:32.019
 you're doing like.

00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:32.600
 Inxiety.

00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:33.260
 Right.

00:35:33.640 --> 00:35:34.440
 Uh-huh.

00:35:35.160 --> 00:35:35.640
 Uh-huh.

00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:36.740
 Yeah.

00:35:36.940 --> 00:35:37.960
 And I think it speaks

00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:38.559
 to kind of like how

00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.320
 in the moment when

00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:40.360
 our feelings can feel

00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:42.320
 just very overwhelming.

00:35:42.539 --> 00:35:42.940
 We're just kind of

00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:44.180
 in that mental fog.

00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:44.640
 Right.

00:35:44.740 --> 00:35:45.680
 Is there a way

00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:47.059
 to take a step

00:35:47.059 --> 00:35:48.380
 back from that?

00:35:48.860 --> 00:35:49.559
 Calm our bodies

00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:50.460
 down a little bit

00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:51.100
 so that the part

00:35:51.100 --> 00:35:51.579
 of our brain

00:35:51.579 --> 00:35:52.460
 that's like fight or

00:35:52.460 --> 00:35:53.240
 flight isn't just

00:35:53.240 --> 00:35:53.920
 kind of blaring.

00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:55.019
 Um.

00:35:55.240 --> 00:35:55.960
 And be able to

00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:56.900
 kind of make choices

00:35:56.900 --> 00:35:59.119
 that are more helpful

00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:00.119
 to kind of our goals

00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:00.700
 in life.

00:36:01.700 --> 00:36:02.539
 Stephanie can talk

00:36:02.539 --> 00:36:03.200
 a little bit about

00:36:03.200 --> 00:36:05.420
 psychodynamic treatment.

00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:07.440
 So I would say

00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.320
 like in terms of therapy

00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:08.980
 right like Elaine

00:36:08.980 --> 00:36:09.880
 is talking about

00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:11.320
 skills based

00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:12.019
 targeted

00:36:12.019 --> 00:36:13.780
 sort of treatment

00:36:13.780 --> 00:36:14.619
 and that's one

00:36:14.619 --> 00:36:15.260
 big category

00:36:15.260 --> 00:36:15.860
 and the other

00:36:15.860 --> 00:36:16.440
 is a little bit

00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:17.820
 more process oriented

00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:18.980
 and so kind of

00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:19.840
 that question of

00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:20.400
 you know how much

00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:20.980
 is a therapist

00:36:20.980 --> 00:36:22.000
 going to disclose to you

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:23.079
 like here it might be

00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:23.679
 where the therapist

00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:24.880
 is what you're

00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:26.119
 bringing into the room

00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:27.639
 is what we're

00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:28.659
 working with

00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:29.739
 and so they might

00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:30.400
 be a little less

00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:31.239
 inclined to tell you

00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:31.840
 like all about

00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:32.420
 themselves because

00:36:32.420 --> 00:36:32.900
 they don't want

00:36:32.900 --> 00:36:34.039
 that to get in

00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:35.000
 the way of

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.119
 focusing on kind

00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:37.900
 of what you're

00:36:37.900 --> 00:36:38.619
 working through

00:36:38.619 --> 00:36:40.099
 and so psychodynamic

00:36:40.099 --> 00:36:41.280
 psychotherapy you

00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:41.960
 know might be kind

00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:42.440
 of where Christians

00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:43.099
 get a little like

00:36:43.099 --> 00:36:44.019
 about it because

00:36:44.019 --> 00:36:44.659
 it's associated

00:36:44.659 --> 00:36:45.440
 with Freud who

00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:46.059
 said a lot of

00:36:46.059 --> 00:36:47.219
 different things

00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:52.480
 and I would say

00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:53.000
 you know don't

00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:54.439
 throw the baby

00:36:54.439 --> 00:36:54.899
 out with the

00:36:54.899 --> 00:36:55.559
 bath water with

00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:56.099
 this one because

00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:56.959
 I do think that

00:36:56.959 --> 00:36:57.799
 there was a lot

00:36:57.799 --> 00:36:59.719
 of wisdom in

00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:00.239
 this type of

00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:00.879
 therapy which is

00:37:00.879 --> 00:37:01.659
 really about

00:37:01.659 --> 00:37:03.279
 acknowledging the

00:37:03.279 --> 00:37:04.039
 conflicts and

00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:04.919
 emotions and

00:37:04.919 --> 00:37:05.899
 desires we might

00:37:05.899 --> 00:37:07.319
 have how those

00:37:07.319 --> 00:37:08.899
 might be unconscious

00:37:08.899 --> 00:37:10.159
 and instead kind

00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:11.039
 of acted out in

00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:12.719
 different ways and

00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:14.319
 when we bring it

00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:17.740
 into awareness how

00:37:17.740 --> 00:37:18.240
 do we make

00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:19.160
 choices about it

00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:19.700
 right because I

00:37:19.700 --> 00:37:21.240
 think it's hard to

00:37:21.240 --> 00:37:21.980
 make good choices

00:37:21.980 --> 00:37:22.680
 about how we're

00:37:22.680 --> 00:37:23.740
 acting if we're not

00:37:23.740 --> 00:37:25.380
 even sure what is

00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:26.160
 the thing underneath

00:37:26.160 --> 00:37:27.780
 that's driving it

00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:30.580
 and so it might be

00:37:30.580 --> 00:37:31.420
 for example right

00:37:31.420 --> 00:37:32.720
 like a mother going

00:37:32.720 --> 00:37:33.940
 to therapy saying

00:37:33.940 --> 00:37:35.400
 you know I really

00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:36.160
 love my child but

00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:37.340
 also like I kind

00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:37.860
 of hate my child

00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:38.840
 sometimes right or

00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:39.760
 it's like really

00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:41.660
 hard to be a

00:37:41.660 --> 00:37:42.980
 caregiver for

00:37:42.980 --> 00:37:43.780
 somebody who is

00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:44.540
 really debilitated

00:37:44.540 --> 00:37:45.300
 like I want to

00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:45.900
 help them but

00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:46.720
 also I just want

00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:47.140
 to do my own

00:37:47.140 --> 00:37:47.519
 thing and be

00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:48.740
 independent and I

00:37:48.740 --> 00:37:49.300
 think sometimes that

00:37:49.300 --> 00:37:49.940
 can feel threatening

00:37:49.940 --> 00:37:50.820
 to us as Christians

00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:51.780
 because we want to

00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:53.260
 be pure and holy

00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:54.220
 and blameless before

00:37:54.220 --> 00:37:55.560
 the Lord but I

00:37:55.560 --> 00:37:56.280
 would also question

00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.580
 like are we

00:37:57.580 --> 00:37:58.519
 thinking that God

00:37:58.519 --> 00:37:59.940
 can't handle the

00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:00.800
 spectrum of emotions

00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:01.640
 and the complexity

00:38:01.640 --> 00:38:02.680
 of emotions that we

00:38:02.680 --> 00:38:03.600
 bring before him

00:38:03.600 --> 00:38:05.620
 and that there is a

00:38:05.620 --> 00:38:07.300
 way in which when

00:38:07.300 --> 00:38:07.900
 we're able to

00:38:07.900 --> 00:38:08.720
 acknowledge these

00:38:08.720 --> 00:38:09.840
 desires and

00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.960
 conflicts that

00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:13.180
 were again you

00:38:13.180 --> 00:38:13.560
 know we're not

00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:14.099
 just talking to

00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:14.759
 the therapist but

00:38:14.759 --> 00:38:15.579
 also realizing

00:38:15.579 --> 00:38:16.719
 like bringing

00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:17.380
 this before the

00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:18.840
 Lord and submitting

00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:19.559
 this to him and

00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:20.139
 saying like yeah I

00:38:20.139 --> 00:38:22.179
 really desire to be

00:38:22.179 --> 00:38:22.960
 a better mother or

00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:24.299
 a better spouse and

00:38:24.299 --> 00:38:25.500
 also I have all these

00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:26.360
 other desires so like

00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:27.639
 Lord this is something

00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:28.320
 we're going to have to

00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:29.179
 work on together right

00:38:29.179 --> 00:38:30.059
 this is about inviting

00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:31.440
 the Lord into the

00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:32.519
 specifics of our

00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:34.320
 situation rather than

00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.039
 holding our desires at

00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:37.099
 arm's length and like

00:38:37.099 --> 00:38:37.900
 kind of denying and

00:38:37.900 --> 00:38:38.480
 being like oh no no

00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:39.639
 no like I really love

00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:40.659
 being a mother a hundred

00:38:40.659 --> 00:38:42.239
 percent of the time you

00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:43.759
 know and so I think

00:38:43.759 --> 00:38:44.299
 there is something

00:38:44.299 --> 00:38:47.239
 about understanding the

00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:48.479
 specificity of our

00:38:48.479 --> 00:38:49.839
 wounds that allows

00:38:49.839 --> 00:38:52.699
 Jesus to speak about

00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:54.119
 who he is specifically

00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:55.259
 in a way that is really

00:38:55.259 --> 00:38:57.439
 beautiful and so that

00:38:57.439 --> 00:38:58.339
 you know we kind of

00:38:58.339 --> 00:38:59.099
 came up with a vignette

00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:00.879
 together of you know

00:39:00.879 --> 00:39:02.659
 maybe there's a person

00:39:02.659 --> 00:39:04.699
 who growing up you

00:39:04.699 --> 00:39:05.479
 know their parents had

00:39:05.479 --> 00:39:06.819
 really high expectations

00:39:06.819 --> 00:39:08.099
 for them and nothing

00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:09.399
 was ever good enough you

00:39:09.399 --> 00:39:10.819
 know and then they you

00:39:10.820 --> 00:39:11.760
 know did decently in

00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:12.780
 life but also kind of

00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:14.100
 struggled with a sense

00:39:14.100 --> 00:39:15.260
 of never being good

00:39:15.260 --> 00:39:16.480
 enough feeling inferior

00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:17.720
 and so they start

00:39:17.720 --> 00:39:19.200
 feeling depressed or

00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:20.019
 really anxious if they

00:39:20.019 --> 00:39:20.960
 fail a test or whatever

00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:22.019
 they go to therapy

00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:23.000
 they're working through

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:24.320
 what it means that

00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:25.220
 their family of origin

00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:26.240
 you know maybe never

00:39:26.240 --> 00:39:27.440
 outwardly abused them

00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:28.700
 but also emotionally

00:39:28.700 --> 00:39:30.039
 weren't really there for

00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:31.180
 them and so what does

00:39:31.180 --> 00:39:32.280
 you know that's part of

00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:33.700
 the work of therapy and

00:39:33.700 --> 00:39:34.340
 then maybe as a

00:39:34.340 --> 00:39:36.820
 Christian it's also being

00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:38.460
 able to receive from the

00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:39.460
 Lord that he is our

00:39:39.460 --> 00:39:40.559
 Abba Father that he

00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:41.760
 delights in us that we

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:43.420
 are his beloved right

00:39:43.420 --> 00:39:44.460
 and that might be

00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:45.539
 different than somebody

00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:46.619
 who is working through

00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:47.880
 in therapy somebody

00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:48.659
 whose parents really

00:39:48.659 --> 00:39:49.500
 did like physically

00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:50.840
 abuse them and there's

00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:51.880
 a lot of trauma to

00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:53.220
 unpack around that and

00:39:53.220 --> 00:39:54.119
 maybe in that case

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:55.980
 bringing that hurt

00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.179
 before the Lord looks

00:39:57.179 --> 00:39:58.639
 like really resting in

00:39:58.639 --> 00:39:59.880
 God as a refuge and a

00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:00.980
 stronghold and a

00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:02.179
 protector right and so

00:40:02.179 --> 00:40:03.440
 there are these kind of

00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:04.720
 like beautiful images in

00:40:04.720 --> 00:40:07.820
 the Bible that speak to

00:40:07.820 --> 00:40:08.300
 all these different

00:40:08.300 --> 00:40:09.519
 aspects of who God is

00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:10.539
 that I think therapy

00:40:10.539 --> 00:40:11.780
 can help us kind of

00:40:11.780 --> 00:40:13.300
 uncover like what is it

00:40:13.300 --> 00:40:14.140
 that we are struggling

00:40:14.140 --> 00:40:15.580
 with that maybe the

00:40:15.580 --> 00:40:16.300
 Lord can speak to

00:40:16.300 --> 00:40:18.740
 specifically in a you

00:40:18.740 --> 00:40:19.640
 know a verse or a

00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:20.500
 picture or a promise

00:40:20.500 --> 00:40:24.580
 that helps us so so

00:40:24.580 --> 00:40:25.920
 that's kind of the you

00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:27.300
 know where I would say

00:40:27.300 --> 00:40:28.280
 like the process you

00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:28.840
 know and then maybe

00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:29.820
 you're you're really

00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:30.800
 angry at your therapist

00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:31.720
 for canceling on you

00:40:31.720 --> 00:40:33.120
 last minute right and

00:40:33.120 --> 00:40:34.180
 so again like that's

00:40:34.180 --> 00:40:35.160
 part of the process of

00:40:35.160 --> 00:40:36.600
 like oh well when you

00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:37.880
 canceled on me it made

00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:38.659
 me feel like I wasn't

00:40:38.659 --> 00:40:39.500
 important and that's

00:40:39.500 --> 00:40:39.920
 something I've

00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:40.679
 struggled with that's a

00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:42.199
 specific wound right and

00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:43.159
 so I think again just

00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:45.039
 kind of maybe we talked

00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:45.819
 a little bit about last

00:40:45.819 --> 00:40:46.679
 week right we tend to

00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:48.400
 kind of gloss over the

00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:49.539
 hard parts right because

00:40:49.539 --> 00:40:50.579
 we're like Jesus covers

00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:52.900
 everything and but I

00:40:52.900 --> 00:40:53.799
 would kind of push back

00:40:53.799 --> 00:40:54.839
 a little and say you

00:40:54.839 --> 00:40:56.619
 know I think that we

00:40:56.619 --> 00:40:57.699
 should probably understand

00:40:57.699 --> 00:40:59.179
 ourselves a little bit

00:40:59.179 --> 00:41:00.339
 better and the things

00:41:00.339 --> 00:41:00.839
 that we're struggling

00:41:00.839 --> 00:41:01.920
 with in order to be able

00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:04.179
 to invite Jesus to to

00:41:04.179 --> 00:41:04.799
 speak to that

00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.340
 so we'll run through a

00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:10.060
 couple other forms of

00:41:10.060 --> 00:41:10.780
 treatment and then we'd

00:41:10.780 --> 00:41:11.920
 love to hear questions or

00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:13.860
 comments too so DBT

00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:16.220
 dialectical behavioral

00:41:16.220 --> 00:41:18.300
 therapy is kind of like

00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:20.039
 CBT but it's more based

00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.240
 on behavior change so this

00:41:23.240 --> 00:41:24.680
 kind of therapy is really

00:41:24.680 --> 00:41:25.620
 good for a lot of things

00:41:25.620 --> 00:41:26.720
 but especially people who

00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:28.620
 are in crisis of some kind

00:41:28.620 --> 00:41:29.420
 like perhaps they're

00:41:29.420 --> 00:41:30.580
 dealing with self-harm

00:41:30.580 --> 00:41:33.200
 urges and this therapy

00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:34.460
 really teaches specific

00:41:34.460 --> 00:41:36.059
 behaviors to deal with

00:41:36.059 --> 00:41:38.559
 crisis so for instance

00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:40.419
 let's say there's somebody

00:41:40.419 --> 00:41:42.919
 who is really feeling like

00:41:42.919 --> 00:41:44.679
 rejected by other people

00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:45.659
 and rejected by friends

00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:46.719
 and I look on Instagram

00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:49.199
 and see everyone going to

00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:50.319
 parties they feel really

00:41:50.319 --> 00:41:51.519
 left out and really

00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:52.960
 worthless and they might

00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:54.500
 experience urges to cut or

00:41:54.500 --> 00:41:55.419
 injure themselves or other

00:41:55.419 --> 00:41:57.099
 forms of self-harm so

00:41:57.099 --> 00:41:58.799
 dialectical behavior therapy

00:41:58.799 --> 00:42:00.079
 would teach this person's

00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:02.599
 skills to avoid that acting

00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:03.819
 on that urge so that might

00:42:03.819 --> 00:42:05.679
 be like okay dip your face

00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:07.239
 into cold water or it could

00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:09.279
 be like deep breathing or

00:42:09.279 --> 00:42:10.799
 intensely exercising or

00:42:10.799 --> 00:42:11.759
 all of which are to like

00:42:11.759 --> 00:42:13.420
 activate kind of a different

00:42:13.420 --> 00:42:14.940
 part of our bodies exactly

00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:17.119
 exactly and I would say for

00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:19.340
 most people there is a need

00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:21.099
 to then also process at some

00:42:21.099 --> 00:42:22.719
 point in time like why do you

00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:24.480
 feel worthless like why do you

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:25.980
 why are you going on

00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:26.980
 Instagram you know some of

00:42:26.980 --> 00:42:27.980
 these other questions but it's

00:42:27.980 --> 00:42:29.820
 really hard to process deeper

00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:31.719
 issues if you're feeling an

00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:33.820
 intense bodily urge to like

00:42:33.820 --> 00:42:35.420
 self-harm or some of the

00:42:35.420 --> 00:42:36.780
 panic or some of these other

00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:38.139
 things so DBT can really help

00:42:38.139 --> 00:42:39.000
 with those behaviors

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.179
 EMDR maybe some of you have

00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:43.800
 heard of this is a specific

00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:45.699
 form of trauma processing

00:42:45.699 --> 00:42:49.460
 so it involves kind of

00:42:49.460 --> 00:42:51.380
 talking through verbally talking

00:42:51.380 --> 00:42:54.820
 through a traumatic memory and

00:42:54.820 --> 00:42:57.000
 then the therapist uses kind of

00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.719
 different techniques to help

00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:01.519
 your body respond differently

00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:03.360
 and kind of calm your calm your

00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:05.659
 nervous system so oftentimes if

00:43:05.659 --> 00:43:06.920
 we've experienced a traumatic

00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:09.639
 incident even years years years in

00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:11.559
 the past our body and our

00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:13.139
 emotions still respond to that

00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:15.039
 incident even years later so the

00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:16.659
 passage of time doesn't like

00:43:16.659 --> 00:43:18.820
 decrease the intensity of that

00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:21.199
 response on its own and so EMDR can

00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.340
 help retrain basically your your

00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:27.280
 emotions it's called EMDR and that

00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:28.660
 stands for eye movement

00:43:28.660 --> 00:43:31.300
 desensitization and reprocessing

00:43:31.300 --> 00:43:34.180
 and certain people are trained in

00:43:34.180 --> 00:43:36.380
 this I am personally not so I

00:43:36.380 --> 00:43:38.100
 don't know a ton a ton about it but

00:43:38.100 --> 00:43:41.240
 it is something out there yeah do you

00:43:41.240 --> 00:43:43.000
 want to cover some of the

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.559
 medication yeah this is a huge area

00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:48.059
 and I don't I don't know that we

00:43:48.059 --> 00:43:49.280
 necessarily need to get into the

00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:51.059
 specifics but I think around kind of

00:43:51.059 --> 00:43:53.500
 what are medications and also within

00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:54.840
 the field of psychiatry there's an

00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:56.579
 interventional arm so if you've ever

00:43:56.579 --> 00:43:59.059
 heard of electroconvulsive therapy or

00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:01.059
 transcranial magnetic stimulation

00:44:01.579 --> 00:44:04.820
 TMS those are all things that are

00:44:04.820 --> 00:44:07.759
 possible interventions to help when

00:44:07.759 --> 00:44:14.059
 therapy alone you know is not

00:44:14.059 --> 00:44:15.759
 helping to the extent that the person

00:44:15.759 --> 00:44:19.320
 is able to function and so again lots

00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:20.980
 of different classes of medications I

00:44:20.980 --> 00:44:22.940
 mean I hold it you know with

00:44:22.940 --> 00:44:24.559
 humility knowing that these are not

00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.480
 like the most fine-tuned precise

00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.220
 things and there are pros and cons and

00:44:29.220 --> 00:44:31.920
 we are still learning so much about it

00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:36.080
 and yeah I mean there's a lot to say

00:44:36.080 --> 00:44:37.019
 about it but I would say like for

00:44:37.019 --> 00:44:39.320
 people who need it it has been well

00:44:40.059 --> 00:44:42.220
 tolerated it's been safe it doesn't

00:44:42.220 --> 00:44:44.519
 make you into a zombie who's like all

00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.320
 of a sudden praising Jesus all the time

00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:49.320
 of it it's really providing a floor so

00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:51.340
 that you're able to make use of

00:44:51.340 --> 00:44:53.860
 therapy and again kind of that

00:44:53.860 --> 00:44:56.019
 illustration of you know if you're in

00:44:56.019 --> 00:44:57.559
 crisis and you feel like you're

00:44:57.559 --> 00:44:59.340
 drowning you do need to learn how to

00:44:59.340 --> 00:45:01.260
 swim eventually you also need to like

00:45:01.260 --> 00:45:02.940
 hold on to a life raft to get your head

00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:07.260
 above water so not a magic pill should

00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:09.059
 be done in conjunction with therapy

00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:11.880
 really about kind of giving us a mental

00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:13.780
 space to be able to process because

00:45:13.780 --> 00:45:15.960
 sometimes we're just so overwhelmed by

00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:18.580
 all the things that are happening that

00:45:18.580 --> 00:45:20.560
 the part of our brain that is able to

00:45:20.560 --> 00:45:22.600
 think a little more rationally and make

00:45:22.600 --> 00:45:24.980
 good choices is just not able to be

00:45:24.980 --> 00:45:28.519
 accessed and then a separate category

00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:31.019
 for you know people are who are hearing

00:45:31.019 --> 00:45:33.180
 voices seeing things believing the

00:45:33.180 --> 00:45:36.620
 government is out to get them really

00:45:36.620 --> 00:45:39.000
 struggling around like not sleeping for

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:40.440
 long periods of times and doing all

00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:43.159
 sorts of things that I would say like I

00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:45.159
 do feel pretty strongly that those can

00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:46.860
 be really helpful tools again not

00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:49.340
 without pros and cons and talking about

00:45:49.340 --> 00:45:50.880
 you know what that person's feelings

00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:52.519
 about the medications might mean like

00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:53.940
 what does it mean that you have to use

00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:55.940
 medication or might you know are even

00:45:55.940 --> 00:45:59.420
 coming to talk to me but where we've

00:45:59.420 --> 00:46:01.900
 really seen people be able to live lives

00:46:01.900 --> 00:46:04.380
 that are a little more flourishing than

00:46:04.380 --> 00:46:05.320
 it would have been without the

00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:05.800
 medications.

00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:09.380
 It seems like patients I'm in the medical

00:46:09.380 --> 00:46:14.019
 field that are on chronic long-term like

00:46:14.019 --> 00:46:15.620
 SSRIs and all.

00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:18.620
 It's like years down the road they still

00:46:18.620 --> 00:46:20.200
 have the same diagnosis they're still

00:46:20.200 --> 00:46:23.280
 taking the same meds and is my

00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:26.100
 understanding correct it just keeps the

00:46:26.100 --> 00:46:28.519
 illness and anxiety from getting worse?

00:46:29.240 --> 00:46:31.920
 I would you know I think it depends on

00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:34.100
 the diagnosis that somebody might be

00:46:34.099 --> 00:46:36.819
 experiencing so personally I took a

00:46:36.819 --> 00:46:39.099
 medication I have for several years

00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:42.559
 because the nature of kind of what I

00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.719
 experience is it doesn't ever sort of

00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:48.539
 like go it doesn't go away even with

00:46:48.539 --> 00:46:50.779
 therapy it doesn't sort of you know

00:46:50.779 --> 00:46:52.159
 sort of always there sort of in my

00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.539
 brain so medication keeps me sort of

00:46:55.539 --> 00:46:58.199
 being able to like live a more

00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:00.380
 flourishing life and it isn't that like

00:47:00.380 --> 00:47:01.920
 therapy doesn't help it's just that

00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:06.159
 that's an aspect of my OCD that my

00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:07.639
 brain kind of really needs to be able

00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:09.880
 to sort of tolerate that well but even

00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:11.659
 sort of a personal experience like I

00:47:11.659 --> 00:47:14.159
 was really resistant even to taking

00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:16.180
 medication I remember my therapist had

00:47:16.180 --> 00:47:19.420
 to like talk me into it at a point in

00:47:19.420 --> 00:47:22.440
 time and I think I felt like it was

00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:25.079
 giving up or something or like that I

00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:27.380
 wasn't working hard enough or that I

00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:31.539
 like should be doing more or I wasn't

00:47:31.539 --> 00:47:33.320
 yeah I wasn't doing something right

00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:35.280
 to meet it and then I started I was

00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:37.800
 like oh this doesn't change me into a

00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.000
 fundamentally different person this

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.780
 just makes things a lot easier for me

00:47:41.780 --> 00:47:43.579
 honestly it makes it easier to engage in

00:47:43.579 --> 00:47:46.000
 therapy and work and you know everything

00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:48.900
 else and so I think some people might

00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:51.019
 need a more short course of medication

00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:53.220
 like maybe they need it for a year to be

00:47:53.220 --> 00:47:55.000
 able to get through a difficult time some

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:57.199
 people depending on the nature of their

00:47:57.199 --> 00:47:59.960
 diagnosis for example like bipolar

00:47:59.960 --> 00:48:04.019
 disorder psychosis like OCD or some

00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:05.460
 forms of depression things like that

00:48:05.460 --> 00:48:07.579
 people just generally might need it for a

00:48:07.579 --> 00:48:09.059
 long time and that doesn't mean that

00:48:09.059 --> 00:48:11.300
 they're not working hard it just means

00:48:11.300 --> 00:48:13.199
 that like their brain really can't

00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:16.980
 function well without or as well without

00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:19.119
 that medication yeah and I think the

00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:21.260
 tricky part too is like we use the word

00:48:21.260 --> 00:48:23.300
 depression as if it were like one thing

00:48:23.300 --> 00:48:27.280
 when really I think it's tens of

00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:28.940
 different things right that somebody

00:48:28.940 --> 00:48:30.940
 who's depressed because they're going

00:48:30.940 --> 00:48:33.000
 through a hard time is different than a

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:37.060
 person who's been kind of feeling sad and

00:48:37.060 --> 00:48:38.620
 moody and irritable ever since

00:48:38.620 --> 00:48:40.840
 childhood right and so there are there

00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:42.000
 are so many different things and so when

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:43.660
 we talk about like what is needed for a

00:48:43.660 --> 00:48:46.480
 person it really is on a case-by-case

00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:49.080
 basis and I would also say that again you

00:48:49.080 --> 00:48:50.480
 know if we think about if we draw the

00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.820
 comparison to medical illnesses somebody

00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:55.599
 who has high blood pressure some people

00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:57.740
 might be able to manage by exercising

00:48:57.740 --> 00:48:59.539
 and having a good diet and lowering their

00:48:59.539 --> 00:49:01.400
 salt intake some people need blood

00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:03.940
 pressure medications to lower that and

00:49:03.940 --> 00:49:05.119
 some people might need that for a

00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.360
 lifetime right and again there's like

00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:11.659
 most of medicine is usually I mean I

00:49:11.659 --> 00:49:13.699
 would say that a lot of it is chronic

00:49:13.699 --> 00:49:16.679
 conditions right and so I definitely

00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:18.019
 agree that there are problems some of my

00:49:18.019 --> 00:49:19.679
 work is taking people off medications

00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.780
 right because I do think there is

00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:23.519
 definitely something to be said about

00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:26.300
 over prescribing and I you know when

00:49:26.300 --> 00:49:28.159
 it's appropriate I do take people off

00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:29.960
 medications again just trying not to

00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:31.420
 throw the baby out with the bathwater

00:49:31.420 --> 00:49:33.639
 that like there is a lot about our

00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:35.119
 health both physical and mental health

00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:37.320
 wise that tends to be chronic and needs

00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:39.280
 kind of chronic support around that

00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:50.620
 oh yeah so that's a exposure exposure

00:49:50.620 --> 00:49:53.940
 and response it's a form of CBT so if

00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:55.800
 somebody's experiencing anxiety disorder

00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:59.500
 it helps somebody desensitize to their

00:49:59.500 --> 00:50:00.740
 fear so let's say somebody's really

00:50:00.740 --> 00:50:03.620
 scared of mice for instance and can't

00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:07.019
 even step into an old house because

00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:09.300
 their fear of seeing a mouse they might

00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:10.980
 start by looking at pictures of a

00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:12.840
 mouse and tolerating that level of

00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:14.780
 anxiety then they might go to a pet

00:50:14.780 --> 00:50:16.719
 store and see a mouse through a cage

00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:18.440
 and tolerate that level of anxiety and

00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:20.280
 then finally get within 10 feet you

00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:22.880
 know and kind of so on and so forth so

00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:24.159
 good question does anyone else have

00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:26.679
 thoughts about yeah medication

00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:28.719
 Christians taking medication yeah

00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:30.380
 there's a movie I haven't seen in a

00:50:30.380 --> 00:50:32.119
 couple of years but it's called a

00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:35.920
 beautiful mind and I think it's a good

00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:39.599
 well it tells the story of John Nash I

00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:41.599
 think he's a really talented

00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:43.780
 mathematician but he struggled with

00:50:43.780 --> 00:50:47.460
 kind of schizophrenic hallucinations

00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:50.200
 things like that and when he stopped

00:50:50.200 --> 00:50:53.440
 taking his medications he really

00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:55.260
 couldn't tell that he was having these

00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:56.940
 hallucinations or that anything was

00:50:56.940 --> 00:50:59.440
 going on it just he couldn't distinguish

00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:01.960
 real and not real and then on the

00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:04.039
 medication it's not that they went away

00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.860
 it's not that he didn't have these they

00:51:06.860 --> 00:51:08.719
 were like people in the movie it's not

00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:11.000
 that he didn't have them but he could

00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:13.860
 tell that they were hallucinations so it

00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:15.820
 does a really good picture of painting

00:51:15.820 --> 00:51:17.880
 the people instead of being in his house

00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:20.119
 or in his car of them being in the

00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:22.759
 distance so he's still working at the

00:51:22.759 --> 00:51:24.460
 university but they're not in his

00:51:24.460 --> 00:51:25.779
 classroom they're not sitting in the

00:51:25.779 --> 00:51:27.679
 chairs they're in the background and

00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:29.340
 they just kind of loom there and I

00:51:29.340 --> 00:51:31.139
 think that paints a really good picture

00:51:31.139 --> 00:51:32.960
 of he's not he's not going to be better

00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:34.960
 he needs that medication long term and

00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:36.960
 they're still going to linger there but

00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:39.920
 he's so much more functional and he has a

00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:42.460
 grasp of reality whether than being

00:51:42.460 --> 00:51:44.559
 caught up with those those characters and

00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:45.960
 the movie does a good job making them

00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:46.480
 characters

00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:53.359
 yeah that's a great illustration I like

00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:54.680
 that I like that

00:51:54.680 --> 00:51:57.240
 should we look at medication it's like

00:51:57.240 --> 00:52:00.579
 maintenance I have hypertension high

00:52:00.579 --> 00:52:02.440
 blood pressure I've been in two

00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:04.440
 different classes of books for years my

00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:07.099
 blood pressure is under good control and

00:52:07.099 --> 00:52:08.680
 probably if I didn't take them it may

00:52:08.680 --> 00:52:09.360
 shoot up

00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:09.860
 exactly

00:52:09.860 --> 00:52:11.760
 stroke or heart attack

00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:12.559
 yeah yeah yeah

00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.480
 so is it kind of the same with the

00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:15.599
 psychiatric meds

00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:16.579
 I think

00:52:16.579 --> 00:52:20.280
 right exactly yeah so so much of what is

00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:22.920
 common for our bodies is chronic and I

00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:25.200
 I would say there is a decent subset of

00:52:25.200 --> 00:52:26.639
 people for whom I would say that is

00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:28.559
 appropriate and I would say it's always

00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:31.920
 worth you know if they're young and a

00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.700
 number you know and I would say it's

00:52:35.700 --> 00:52:37.320
 depending on the person sometimes it is

00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:38.599
 worth trying to take them off and see

00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:39.200
 how things go

00:52:39.200 --> 00:52:42.119
 and then it's not a terrible thing to

00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:44.720
 like kind of put them back on it and

00:52:44.720 --> 00:52:45.840
 that gives us a little bit more

00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:48.099
 information so it might be like you know

00:52:48.099 --> 00:52:49.220
 you try to come off your blood pressure

00:52:49.220 --> 00:52:50.700
 medication and you're still doing the

00:52:50.699 --> 00:52:51.839
 right things but your blood pressure

00:52:51.839 --> 00:52:54.079
 is still like sky high you it gives you

00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:55.319
 more information you need to get back

00:52:55.319 --> 00:52:55.679
 on it

00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:58.259
 and then there are some people who take

00:52:58.259 --> 00:53:00.299
 it for a period of time and again

00:53:00.299 --> 00:53:01.559
 these are not like you know these are

00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:03.059
 medications that take like six to 12

00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:04.759
 weeks to even consider it a full trial

00:53:04.759 --> 00:53:06.980
 right and so it does take time and so

00:53:06.980 --> 00:53:09.980
 for some people they may be able to get

00:53:09.980 --> 00:53:11.619
 through a hard circumstance with the

00:53:11.619 --> 00:53:13.339
 help of a medication learn some skills

00:53:13.339 --> 00:53:15.960
 in therapy and then when things are in a

00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:17.899
 more stable place they're able to try to

00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:19.380
 come off it but I'm just like I guess

00:53:19.380 --> 00:53:20.940
 maybe the point is that everybody's so

00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:22.980
 different right so for somebody to be

00:53:22.980 --> 00:53:24.160
 like oh like what's wrong with you that

00:53:24.160 --> 00:53:25.900
 like your gout is not under control

00:53:25.900 --> 00:53:27.639
 right you know and you still need to

00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:30.079
 take allopirinol like I think is is a

00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.440
 little is to be a little bit not

00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:34.500
 acknowledging but for some people it can

00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:35.160
 be chronic

00:53:35.160 --> 00:53:36.780
 Dean you have

00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:40.880
 so you know when we listen to the

00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:43.080
 conversation so far there's a lot of

00:53:43.080 --> 00:53:45.800
 seems like there's a lot of reluctance to

00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:48.840
 deal with a mental illness and I'm an

00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:51.019
 internist I do a lot of psychiatry also

00:53:51.019 --> 00:53:54.480
 and I see that in my practice I mean so

00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:56.280
 it's one of those things that how much of it

00:53:56.280 --> 00:53:59.840
 do you think is pride and is that a sin

00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:03.240
 when you say ah you know mental illness I can

00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:07.079
 handle myself I'm a heart attack I'm not

00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:08.359
 I'm gonna try to handle it myself

00:54:08.359 --> 00:54:11.619
 or you might

00:54:11.619 --> 00:54:13.339
 actually no

00:54:13.339 --> 00:54:18.759
 that's a good question I mean I don't feel

00:54:18.759 --> 00:54:20.679
 like I could speak to each person's heart

00:54:20.679 --> 00:54:24.279
 right like only one person each person

00:54:24.279 --> 00:54:26.939
 knows before God only God knows like the

00:54:26.939 --> 00:54:28.279
 reasons why they may or may not be

00:54:28.279 --> 00:54:30.419
 seeking mental health care maybe they've

00:54:30.419 --> 00:54:32.219
 had terrible experience with therapy in

00:54:32.219 --> 00:54:34.019
 the past and so they're hesitant and I

00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:36.379
 can't blame them right like for being

00:54:36.379 --> 00:54:38.699
 hesitant but yeah I do sometimes think

00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:40.500
 that like maybe especially as Christians

00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:43.839
 we're slow to admit areas that we need

00:54:43.839 --> 00:54:45.879
 help with mentally or emotionally because

00:54:45.879 --> 00:54:51.459
 that feels especially vulnerable or weak or

00:54:51.459 --> 00:54:54.699
 embarrassing or you know isn't part as

00:54:54.699 --> 00:54:56.079
 much of what we talk about so I think

00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:57.939
 that there could be an element of pride

00:54:57.940 --> 00:55:01.300
 yeah depending on the person

00:55:01.300 --> 00:55:05.280
 isn't it a social cultural thing too like

00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:10.320
 I mean if I suffer from suicidal thoughts which I

00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:13.099
 don't but I would be more reluctant to say

00:55:13.099 --> 00:55:15.380
 something but I don't have any problem with

00:55:15.380 --> 00:55:16.760
 saying I have high blood pressure

00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:20.920
 yeah you know you tell say like I always

00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:22.640
 say for friends it's a fine anchor

00:55:22.640 --> 00:55:25.240
 people are very reluctant to admit them

00:55:25.240 --> 00:55:29.960
 it's the attitude I know you should judge people

00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:33.160
 yeah you go into like talking sessions

00:55:33.160 --> 00:55:36.360
 sessions like just speak up speaking on

00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:38.760
 experience stuff like that like heavily

00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:42.520
 influenced on the big talk of like you know

00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:45.460
 like yeah man toughen up you feel me you'll be

00:55:45.460 --> 00:55:48.139
 all right or like to not really like process

00:55:48.139 --> 00:55:50.579
 your emotions or what's going on that causes

00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:53.179
 these issues yeah later on to come talk to

00:55:53.179 --> 00:55:55.519
 somebody about it like how do I know how to

00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:57.960
 address that how do I know what's really

00:55:57.960 --> 00:55:59.860
 bothering me if I've never been allowed to

00:55:59.860 --> 00:56:03.460
 process or think what's been causing this or

00:56:03.460 --> 00:56:07.699
 like what made me make this away right yeah I

00:56:07.699 --> 00:56:10.019
 think that that speaks to kind of like maybe

00:56:10.019 --> 00:56:12.400
 our next section although and if anyone needs

00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:15.000
 to go feel free because I realize it's 10

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:17.980
 we'll try to fly through a few of our last

00:56:17.980 --> 00:56:19.699
 points and we just do questions but if anyone

00:56:19.699 --> 00:56:24.079
 needs to go don't hesitate yeah yeah but I

00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:26.360
 think this idea of like when to seek help

00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:29.000
 sometimes there are clear red flags which

00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:31.539
 we can talk about and then sometimes it can

00:56:31.539 --> 00:56:33.199
 be hard to acknowledge we're going through a

00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:35.159
 traumatic event if the trauma is still

00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:37.000
 happening right and it's really not until

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:38.860
 we're in a place where we've kind of surfaced

00:56:38.860 --> 00:56:42.059
 that we're able to say yeah that was really

00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:43.960
 terrible right because but in that moment

00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:45.240
 you're just trying to survive you're just

00:56:45.240 --> 00:56:47.079
 trying to get through and that that's okay

00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:50.400
 right and so I think that it may be that

00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:52.140
 like terrible things are happening and you're

00:56:52.140 --> 00:56:53.620
 you know and you're just kind of feeling

00:56:53.620 --> 00:56:55.120
 like you have to survive it may not be

00:56:55.120 --> 00:56:57.599
 necessarily the right time to seek therapy

00:56:57.599 --> 00:56:59.320
 and I think to Dean's point right like of

00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:01.140
 people saying like oh I can deal with this

00:57:01.140 --> 00:57:04.019
 on my own I think that therapy you know

00:57:04.019 --> 00:57:05.700
 there are certain ways that we talk about

00:57:05.700 --> 00:57:07.700
 things that maybe can hopefully help the

00:57:07.699 --> 00:57:09.199
 person think through what is and isn't

00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:10.759
 working for them but I don't think that

00:57:10.759 --> 00:57:12.679
 therapy can just magically be like oh you

00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:15.099
 have this problem and now you have all the

00:57:15.099 --> 00:57:17.980
 motivation to process it right so it can't

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:21.339
 therapy in and of itself can't motivate us

00:57:21.339 --> 00:57:24.359
 to seek help and so sometimes it is an issue

00:57:24.359 --> 00:57:27.679
 of time or enough feedback from other people

00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:29.399
 or you know maybe sometimes it's getting

00:57:29.399 --> 00:57:32.759
 fired from a job maybe sometimes it's you

00:57:32.759 --> 00:57:35.759
 know a relationship failing that you know

00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:37.320
 brings that person to a point where they're

00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:39.400
 like oh yeah what I thought was working

00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:41.080
 might have worked in the past but it isn't

00:57:41.080 --> 00:57:43.200
 working for me right now right but it's

00:57:43.200 --> 00:57:44.880
 some that's something that a person kind of

00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:47.140
 needs to come to a conclusion about before

00:57:47.140 --> 00:57:47.800
 they seek help

00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:51.400
 so just a couple

00:57:51.400 --> 00:57:55.400
 maybe we can run briefly over a couple of

00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:58.580
 these points so one concerns week four too

00:57:58.580 --> 00:58:00.460
 what I said we can pick up pick up yes

00:58:00.460 --> 00:58:06.400
 exactly so maybe maybe we'll go over what

00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:08.900
 what therapy can and cannot do okay yeah

00:58:08.900 --> 00:58:10.980
 and then we can kind of cover a couple

00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:12.300
 we have so much to talk about with this

00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:14.920
 topic but it's hard so just really quickly I

00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:17.460
 think there is a genuine concern sometimes

00:58:17.460 --> 00:58:20.240
 Christians or people ask like in secular

00:58:20.240 --> 00:58:22.420
 society are people making therapy like

00:58:22.420 --> 00:58:25.699
 they're God and I think sometimes it can for

00:58:25.699 --> 00:58:27.519
 people who aren't people of faith like it

00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:29.119
 can't have almost sort of like this like

00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:31.860
 religious yeah sense of like this is what

00:58:31.860 --> 00:58:35.519
 will truly help me and we also think that's

00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:38.380
 not true right like as mental health

00:58:38.380 --> 00:58:39.480
 professionals and people who are Christians

00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:42.300
 so in terms of what therapy can and can't

00:58:42.300 --> 00:58:45.739
 do for you as we see it so it can help you

00:58:45.739 --> 00:58:47.800
 relieve your symptoms that can improve your

00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:50.840
 mood it can make you less anxious I do

00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:53.679
 think with that I could sort of remove

00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:56.719
 barriers that might be getting between you

00:58:56.719 --> 00:58:58.719
 and God so for instance like if your mood is

00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:01.139
 so low that you can't go to church or read

00:59:01.139 --> 00:59:03.719
 scripture or engage with other Christians

00:59:04.259 --> 00:59:08.079
 therapy can help you sort of free you up

00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:10.139
 to spiritually engage with God or if you're

00:59:10.139 --> 00:59:12.439
 so anxious that you can't read the Bible

00:59:12.439 --> 00:59:14.379
 without ruminating and ruminating that it

00:59:14.379 --> 00:59:17.579
 can kind of free you up it can improve your

00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:18.679
 relationships like with psychodynamic

00:59:18.679 --> 00:59:20.399
 treatment like Stephanie was talking about

00:59:20.399 --> 00:59:23.500
 it can help make you more self-aware of what

00:59:23.500 --> 00:59:25.119
 you're doing so you're not just acting out of

00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:28.039
 reflex so I find myself yelling at my husband

00:59:28.039 --> 00:59:31.199
 every day and not understanding why right

00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:33.500
 like he probably wants me to go to therapy

00:59:33.500 --> 00:59:37.880
 to like understand what like why are you doing

00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:39.559
 that why do you keep acting you go serve out of

00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:42.900
 that reflex so some things that cannot do so it

00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:45.579
 cannot give meaning and purpose to your life

00:59:45.579 --> 00:59:48.799
 and and I do think that some people who don't

00:59:48.799 --> 00:59:52.880
 have a foundation of God can look to therapy for

00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:55.480
 something that it can't give so for instance

00:59:55.480 --> 00:59:58.280
 somebody who's experiencing depression might

00:59:58.280 --> 01:00:01.039
 feel really bleak and hopeless about the future

01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:03.800
 and feel purposeless and therapy can help

01:00:03.800 --> 01:00:06.840
 improve their mood it can give a space for

01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:10.360
 them to talk about what matters to you what

01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.220
 do you want your life to look like reestablish

01:00:12.220 --> 01:00:14.440
 goals but it can't give someone an ultimate

01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:17.360
 purpose for living right or an ultimate reason

01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:20.519
 for existing and motivation and I think sometimes

01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.239
 that's where if you think of God first and therapy

01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:25.280
 second sometimes if that gets turned around

01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:27.460
 people can look to it for something that it that

01:00:27.460 --> 01:00:31.159
 it can't do and it cannot like stuff I'm saying

01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:33.800
 it cannot inherently give you motivation to work

01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:37.500
 on yourself so I think sometimes we maybe we think

01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:39.980
 this is friends or family members like oh so and so

01:00:39.980 --> 01:00:41.519
 really needs to go to therapy if they just went

01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:43.780
 to a session they would start to work on

01:00:43.780 --> 01:00:46.440
 themselves and not really like therapy is a

01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:49.139
 tool for them to work on themselves if they have

01:00:49.139 --> 01:00:51.539
 the motivation to do so but just kind of getting

01:00:51.539 --> 01:00:54.299
 someone to one therapy session they may or may

01:00:54.299 --> 01:00:56.219
 not be in a place where they feel ready to do

01:00:56.219 --> 01:00:59.859
 that and I would say too it cannot override the

01:00:59.859 --> 01:01:02.460
 human conditions like we're speaking like the human

01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:06.099
 condition it can't speaking to the chronicity of

01:01:06.099 --> 01:01:09.480
 mental health like going to therapy can't remove our

01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:12.799
 vulnerability and frailty as humans or our

01:01:12.799 --> 01:01:16.239
 susceptibility to mental illness and oftentimes we

01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:19.239
 might go to therapy or take medication and like you

01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:21.359
 were saying with the beautiful mind movie our mental

01:01:21.359 --> 01:01:23.899
 health concerns might still be always lurking in the

01:01:23.899 --> 01:01:28.259
 background and that is part of our experience as

01:01:28.259 --> 01:01:30.979
 people on the side of heaven right for for many of us

01:01:30.979 --> 01:01:35.319
 and that doesn't mean that it's not important because

01:01:35.319 --> 01:01:37.579
 it's great that those things are in the background and

01:01:37.579 --> 01:01:41.359
 not the foreground but it's sometimes an unreasonable

01:01:41.359 --> 01:01:43.439
 expectation of mental health treatment that it's going to

01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:49.679
 take everything away um and yeah and I think just to maybe

01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:53.260
 to add on to kind of therapy because we've heard a lot of

01:01:53.260 --> 01:01:56.200
 questions about like therapy versus like christian counseling or

01:01:56.200 --> 01:01:59.920
 biblical counseling um you know therapy as we've been

01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:04.179
 talking about is kind of there there are techniques around it

01:02:04.179 --> 01:02:10.740
 that may not get at the existential piece of why we struggle what is the

01:02:10.739 --> 01:02:15.119
 purpose of suffering do I matter um and that might be where biblical

01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:17.239
 counseling could be really helpful for

01:02:17.239 --> 01:02:22.619
 you know what does the bible say about our dignity and the purpose of life

01:02:22.619 --> 01:02:24.799
 and that kind of a thing and I think sometimes we

01:02:24.799 --> 01:02:29.719
 put these in juxtaposition of oh is is it biblical counseling or is it

01:02:29.719 --> 01:02:34.559
 therapy um and again I think what we would say is that

01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:38.459
 ideally it's the integration of both that maybe both can come to

01:02:38.460 --> 01:02:44.340
 weigh in on this specific issue and that when a pastor or elder feels like

01:02:44.340 --> 01:02:47.400
 oh you know this is something that a trained mental health professional should be

01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:50.820
 dealing with it's not kind of this game of hot potato like oh no you're it

01:02:50.820 --> 01:02:54.220
 right like no you're holding the bag but it's really just kind of like adding

01:02:54.220 --> 01:02:57.320
 another person into that link that circle around them

01:02:57.320 --> 01:03:00.300
 um expanding that so that they have more resources

01:03:00.300 --> 01:03:04.340
 and we actually asked you know the pastors what they think about biblical

01:03:04.340 --> 01:03:08.460
 counseling versus therapy and so they came up with some things that maybe like

01:03:08.460 --> 01:03:11.180
 we hadn't even known how they think about it and so

01:03:11.180 --> 01:03:14.840
 one is that um biblical counseling their hope

01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:17.820
 well actually and I think they have different views on whether what they do

01:03:17.820 --> 01:03:21.019
 pastoral counseling or discipleship yeah

01:03:21.019 --> 01:03:24.940
 that maybe they they might actually be hesitant to use the word counseling

01:03:24.940 --> 01:03:27.000
 because that has such a specific connotation

01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:33.179
 and liability to it um but also that it's you know bringing prayer and god's word

01:03:33.179 --> 01:03:38.019
 to bear on a situation in a way that is probably more targeted

01:03:38.019 --> 01:03:45.699
 and uh short term and that if they're that even things like grief where the bible has a lot to say

01:03:45.699 --> 01:03:54.380
 about death and suffering and grieving um but but if it's complex or if it was particularly traumatic

01:03:54.380 --> 01:03:58.460
 right that might be where adding in a mental health professional could be helpful

01:03:58.460 --> 01:04:03.579
 um and also yeah and so there's that piece of kind of what biblical counseling

01:04:03.579 --> 01:04:10.200
 and therapy could look like and then also kind of the logistics of it that it's biblical counseling

01:04:10.200 --> 01:04:16.440
 or pastoral counseling and discipleship is something that all the elders are privy to

01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:21.059
 so it's not confidential in the way that seeking mental health treatment is confidential

01:04:21.059 --> 01:04:25.799
 um and again in an ideal world right there would be this integration

01:04:25.799 --> 01:04:30.719
 of both um but oftentimes people feel like they have to choose

01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:38.079
 so the when we spoke with um pastor nick and pastor matt and tom and the elders so

01:04:38.079 --> 01:04:43.440
 the general approach of our church is they are very sounds like very comfortable making referrals

01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:51.639
 to mental health professionals um in their the elders feel really conscious of not like overstepping

01:04:51.639 --> 01:04:56.420
 their boundaries of competence and so if there's anything that might involve a mental health diagnosis

01:04:56.420 --> 01:05:04.099
 they want to refer for that while also not withdrawing their own care and their own presence

01:05:04.099 --> 01:05:12.539
 but just adding in that mental health component um and so maybe should we run over the when's really quick

01:05:12.539 --> 01:05:19.460
 um so just kind of what a few things of when to seek out help so if you are i just say if something

01:05:19.460 --> 01:05:25.679
 is really really bothering you to the point where it's always on your mind it's hard to function as you

01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:31.179
 used to function you're not feeling like yourself that is a really good indication that it's a good idea

01:05:31.179 --> 01:05:36.820
 to get support um so we consider kind of like the length something's been bothering you like

01:05:36.820 --> 01:05:42.239
 if you're feeling bad for three days but you felt fine before that that might not be as much of a need

01:05:42.239 --> 01:05:47.619
 for therapy as if you've been feeling bad for five years or five months right um if you're like

01:05:47.619 --> 01:05:54.579
 i think about this once in a while but generally my life is fine versus like really i'm thinking

01:05:54.579 --> 01:06:01.079
 or experiencing this every single day um definitely time to get support so i i often think like if you

01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:06.619
 feel like you need support you probably do and it's probably a good idea to seek that out um

01:06:06.619 --> 01:06:16.859
 so um we kind of covered that some red flags for when you should definitely definitely not try to

01:06:16.859 --> 01:06:22.940
 deal with something alone either for yourself or for somebody else um is if there's any sort of risk

01:06:22.940 --> 01:06:29.759
 of self-harm involved or suicidal thinking um that is not a time when we would ever want somebody to worry

01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:36.960
 alone or worry by themselves that's a really can be high risk situation and so um really ensuring

01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:41.700
 that somebody can get help as quickly as possible if they're dealing with safety concerns is important

01:06:41.700 --> 01:06:49.700
 um eating disorders those tend to have um also a high risk of health um health risk um and so we

01:06:49.700 --> 01:06:54.640
 think you know really important to get somebody into treatment right away dealing with an eating

01:06:54.639 --> 01:07:00.659
 disorder psychosis so if somebody's hearing voices seeing things other people don't see or hear um

01:07:00.659 --> 01:07:06.960
 if somebody is um has bipolar disorder should they be experiencing like days on end of not sleeping

01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:14.759
 behaving recklessly acting way out of the ordinary that's a good idea um to seek help right away ocd

01:07:14.759 --> 01:07:22.420
 um just kind of a complicated a more specialized treatment that's needed for that um sometimes trauma

01:07:22.420 --> 01:07:28.039
 treatment can just be very complex and somebody needs a certain level of training to be able to

01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:34.480
 deal well with that um and this is all interwoven with like when there are safety concerns or things

01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:41.840
 that might require more um specialized forms of treatment i think it also interplays a lot with

01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:47.460
 like where does that treatment take place does it take place outpatient does it take place in a hospital

01:07:47.460 --> 01:07:52.159
 where there's 24 7 nursing care is it somewhere in between where you're going multiple times

01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:57.980
 a week um to a partial hospitalization or entire outpatient program but again like these are you

01:07:57.980 --> 01:08:02.980
 know i think this is less about like telling you to triage on your own and more just kind of like

01:08:02.980 --> 01:08:07.539
 you know this is kind of the spectrum of care that we have that there's you know that therapy and

01:08:07.539 --> 01:08:12.599
 medication help can look different across these different settings and depending on where the person

01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:21.619
 is um they may benefit from kind of more structure versus like being at home yeah all right well maybe this is a good

01:08:21.619 --> 01:08:25.939
 a good place to take questions comments of course if you need to go that's totally fine but yeah

01:08:25.939 --> 01:08:26.359
 jessica

01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:32.039
 i just want to do a comment kind of in response to what we talked about earlier with like why people don't get treatment

01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:38.960
 i think sometimes it may be fine but i think sometimes it's like realizing that like what i'm going through is enough to warrant

01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:44.939
 like you just went through some of the wind and it's like yeah um like i don't know i think

01:08:44.939 --> 01:08:50.119
 maybe it's maybe it's not the difference maybe it's just me there's some things that i'm like well maybe that

01:08:50.119 --> 01:08:56.020
 should be helpful but i have felt that i need to reserve professional time for this course like

01:08:56.020 --> 01:09:02.100
 dealing with these red flag issues and like i don't feel like that's necessarily where i'm at now but

01:09:02.100 --> 01:09:08.120
 like perhaps i could still be good yeah so it's i think a lot of it is just like maybe being told that i

01:09:08.120 --> 01:09:13.700
 need to deal with it myself or realizing like just realizing the the magnitude of what i'm actually

01:09:13.700 --> 01:09:20.740
 going through not not being able to do that yeah yeah sometimes it could be probably maybe

01:09:20.740 --> 01:09:28.660
 right right i think that yeah that's such a that's such a good point because we often so hear

01:09:28.659 --> 01:09:34.619
 we often hear from so many people oh i didn't realize it's not normal to feel this way right

01:09:34.619 --> 01:09:41.539
 i didn't realize that not everybody struggles with walking into a room and freaking out and not knowing

01:09:41.539 --> 01:09:45.939
 who to talk to because it all seems like white noise right i didn't know that other people don't

01:09:45.939 --> 01:09:51.880
 have to spend hours and hours you know getting out of bed and talking themselves through it right and

01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:57.059
 so sometimes it's you know whether it's a close you know if a close friend or a spouse or a partner

01:09:57.060 --> 01:10:01.680
 or a family member is kind of like like have you thought you know like have you thought about

01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:07.280
 therapy or have you thought about other supports that's often helpful feedback and that's also where

01:10:07.280 --> 01:10:13.840
 again friends and family members can do things that like a therapist within a setting can't do right

01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:20.240
 and so to not minimize the role that you know you as a non-professional would be able to do because

01:10:20.240 --> 01:10:23.440
 sometimes people do need to hear from friends like hey it seems like you've really been struggling

01:10:23.439 --> 01:10:28.059
 um have you thought about getting help um yeah

01:10:28.059 --> 01:10:29.859
 how do you get over the thinking of like

01:10:29.859 --> 01:10:31.539
 um

01:10:31.539 --> 01:10:35.939
 your mess is too messy for anybody else to relate or understand

01:10:35.939 --> 01:10:39.559
 in a group setting or like

01:10:39.559 --> 01:10:43.199
 in a frame group setting you know what i'm saying like how do you like

01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:46.119
 how do you learn to get over that kind of stuff

01:10:46.119 --> 01:10:50.099
 yeah i mean it's tough i think sometimes we think like how could a therapist help me

01:10:50.100 --> 01:10:55.240
 if they haven't been through this specific thing and i think one thing to keep in mind

01:10:55.240 --> 01:11:01.200
 most therapists go into the field because they've been through something bad i feel like i almost know

01:11:01.200 --> 01:11:05.900
 no one who went into the mental health field unless they have like a personal reason for doing so

01:11:05.900 --> 01:11:09.960
 but i think it's true like your therapist will not have your same experience

01:11:09.960 --> 01:11:14.460
 which has i think pros and cons in some ways like

01:11:14.460 --> 01:11:20.020
 maybe they don't have like as totally an understanding of exactly what you went through

01:11:20.020 --> 01:11:26.899
 but there might be a degree if they're curious and respectful there might be a degree of objectivity

01:11:26.899 --> 01:11:30.960
 that them not having had the same experience could in some ways be helpful

01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:35.480
 but you've got to make sure like that they can understand you enough that you feel comfortable

01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:43.719
 um yeah carolyn i was just gonna say i think also it's sometimes helpful with those like worries of

01:11:43.719 --> 01:11:50.279
 like is this too much particularly like for my friends or family or is this like too messy

01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:54.039
 i don't want to burden which are all things you can work out in therapy

01:11:54.039 --> 01:11:59.619
 but um i think to have someone you're like oh this is their job

01:11:59.619 --> 01:12:07.920
 this is a service right like whether i'm paying or my insurance is paying them

01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:14.800
 and i think there's power in just like speaking things aloud to another human even if that human

01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:22.119
 doesn't necessarily have been experiencing the same thing to like have someone who's like outside

01:12:22.119 --> 01:12:30.579
 of this like of your life that like in some ways i like don't have to necessarily worry about

01:12:30.579 --> 01:12:35.059
 the other person's emotions or what they're caring because they kind of signed up for this

01:12:35.059 --> 01:12:46.340
 like ideally that would that's also true of family and friends but i think sometimes when that's like

01:12:46.340 --> 01:12:53.699
 my worry it's like nice to like take the first step with my therapist which then like helps me be more open

01:12:53.699 --> 01:12:58.100
 with people for whom like i'm closer to or just have more information

01:12:58.100 --> 01:13:06.440
 i would say too like sometimes when somebody has not had your experience they can actually be more empathetic

01:13:06.440 --> 01:13:10.539
 so like let's say you've gone through a certain difficult thing in life

01:13:10.539 --> 01:13:13.779
 and you're around someone who's gone through the same difficult thing

01:13:13.779 --> 01:13:18.840
 their response might be like okay you know it's normal you know kind of type thing but if somebody

01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:24.179
 has not experienced that they might be like oh wow that is a lot and that actually might be a more

01:13:24.179 --> 01:13:28.399
 healing response than somebody who's like been there you know like obviously hopefully a friend

01:13:28.399 --> 01:13:30.340
 doesn't do that but sorry there was a question in the back

01:13:30.340 --> 01:13:38.340
 actually it's a comment uh it's a advice um i mean uh you know i can talk to y'all i mean this is your

01:13:38.340 --> 01:13:42.420
 talk obviously i don't want to go into but one advice i would recommend is that fellowship

01:13:42.420 --> 01:13:48.340
 to get together with friends and fellowship together and especially christian friends

01:13:48.340 --> 01:13:54.900
 is that you know you talk to people some of your age your background who have similar uh uh uh

01:13:54.900 --> 01:14:00.260
 thought patterns as you and then you open up and when you open up things get better

01:14:00.819 --> 01:14:04.340
 god kind of like you know looks into you heals you when you open up

01:14:04.900 --> 01:14:11.220
 keep it inside it just smothers and just kind of like you know you uh you know fellowship

01:14:11.220 --> 01:14:17.220
 yeah i think the community aspect is very important um and again something that therapy

01:14:17.220 --> 01:14:22.020
 in and of itself can't provide and that's what we'll talk about not next week but the following week

01:14:22.020 --> 01:14:26.740
 of yeah yeah oh good i just wanted to piggyback on one of the things about this is that um

01:14:27.699 --> 01:14:33.380
 community is very important and and working with peers people are struggling with the same thing and

01:14:33.380 --> 01:14:40.740
 um having that in the church would be amazing yeah there's a lot of community in the outside world

01:14:41.220 --> 01:14:48.740
 in the outside of the church amazingly healing and yeah all the things right and the church being a

01:14:48.740 --> 01:14:53.380
 place that should be a place of like you know where we come with our broken us and seek healing

01:14:53.380 --> 01:14:58.980
 together and are vulnerable yeah so there's no stigma i mean it's very easy to feel the thing

01:14:58.980 --> 01:15:02.340
 in church and um

01:15:02.340 --> 01:15:03.699
 have that kind of community

01:15:03.699 --> 01:15:04.420
 um

01:15:04.420 --> 01:15:11.779
 yeah absolutely yeah and that's that's a great segue i think we're so we're taking a break next week

01:15:11.779 --> 01:15:14.899
 but the last week we'll talk about you know how can we

01:15:14.899 --> 01:15:15.460
 uh-huh

01:15:15.460 --> 01:15:23.539
 and like yeah yeah we're i'm out of town next week so we're we're on pause and then we'll be our uh

01:15:23.539 --> 01:15:29.139
 resuming or i guess resuming and ending our final week will be i guess that's the memorial day weekend

01:15:29.140 --> 01:15:36.020
 um the following the 20 yes good 27th or 28 something whatever that weekend is the last weekend of may

01:15:36.020 --> 01:15:41.380
 um but i think very much to your point of like how can the church as it be a community for those who are struggling

01:15:41.380 --> 01:15:44.180
 um so so bring your ideas yeah

01:15:44.180 --> 01:15:50.660
 within church what i did that oh specifically within church is what we're thinking within this church within

01:15:51.220 --> 01:15:57.619
 christian communities yep how can we better support one another um in struggling with mental health

01:15:57.619 --> 01:16:00.019
 yeah yeah

01:16:00.019 --> 01:16:05.619
 yes yep yep um i believe the first two are currently already on the website if i can know they are and

01:16:05.619 --> 01:16:09.300
 then this one should be uploaded in a few days i would have

01:16:10.739 --> 01:16:12.260
 oh cool oh youtube and

01:16:14.099 --> 01:16:16.099
 and they're on the church podcast too

01:16:16.099 --> 01:16:22.659
 even though i don't call this like community or small group but i think that this is wonderful

01:16:22.659 --> 01:16:24.019
 and who knows do you do

01:16:24.020 --> 01:16:28.820
 well i've been in the church all my life i've never heard of this issue

01:16:29.540 --> 01:16:33.460
 i'm dressed i know it's you know not specific to a specific

01:16:34.340 --> 01:16:35.700
 psychiatric issue which is

01:16:36.660 --> 01:16:38.260
 not feasible but um

01:16:38.980 --> 01:16:40.820
 tries to talk about things

01:16:41.780 --> 01:16:44.340
 your biblical perspective very much appreciate

01:16:45.060 --> 01:16:48.260
 oh well thank you thank you it's yeah

01:16:48.260 --> 01:16:50.980
 thank you for helping us understand

01:16:50.979 --> 01:16:53.459
 yeah we thank you for your comments yeah

01:16:53.459 --> 01:16:58.500
 participation i appreciate it yeah if anyone has other questions we can hang around did you have a

01:16:58.500 --> 01:17:03.379
 question or comment i didn't have a question i i just kind of wanted to go back to what you said

01:17:03.379 --> 01:17:09.539
 how can someone understand my mess or whatever you know how are they and i went to christian

01:17:09.539 --> 01:17:17.379
 counseling here after going through something here and that counselor was like oh i mean he was as

01:17:17.380 --> 01:17:23.380
 as you said so empathetic what a horrible thing to have gone through and just i was like

01:17:25.220 --> 01:17:25.619
 thank you

01:17:27.380 --> 01:17:30.340
 and i guess the other thing about christian aspect is

01:17:30.340 --> 01:17:31.380
 they created

01:17:33.060 --> 01:17:34.819
 and that's why i like a christian therapy

01:17:34.819 --> 01:17:36.020
 for sure

01:17:36.819 --> 01:17:40.579
 for sure yeah and that's a good thing to know because if you go to a non-christian therapist

01:17:41.300 --> 01:17:45.380
 they probably well yeah i can't imagine that they would invest in

01:17:45.380 --> 01:17:49.060
 if that's what you're looking for a hundred percent you can look for a christian with that

01:17:49.060 --> 01:17:51.460
 and and not because like they don't because they're like

01:17:52.020 --> 01:17:52.579
 they think

01:17:52.579 --> 01:17:54.739
 they might not know

01:17:55.779 --> 01:17:59.300
 they're like mindful of like the power dynamics and what is it like

01:17:59.300 --> 01:18:03.300
 to invite someone into prayer and is that something you feel comfortable with or you feel

01:18:03.300 --> 01:18:06.739
 obligated by it you know so just it gets a little sticky

01:18:06.739 --> 01:18:12.899
 it's just something that i personally do yeah yeah absolutely for sure for sure any other yeah

01:18:12.899 --> 01:18:21.859
 questions or is this like a group also to like test something that can but possibly like continue

01:18:21.859 --> 01:18:27.619
 later on down or become a different form of a small group inside the church that has a open

01:18:27.619 --> 01:18:33.939
 discussion about issues and traumas that we face outside the church and within church

01:18:33.939 --> 01:18:37.699
 hmm it's like it's a good question i don't think we've thought about it but

01:18:38.259 --> 01:18:42.179
 i think i think our hope is still to try to figure out within the church like what

01:18:42.179 --> 01:18:46.179
 can be an ongoing support i don't think we figured it out but we're open to ideas

01:18:47.539 --> 01:18:49.379
 so approach the elders if you have

01:18:52.899 --> 01:18:53.939
 what we can and can't do

01:18:53.939 --> 01:19:06.339
 yeah

01:19:06.339 --> 01:19:06.819
 in any

01:19:06.819 --> 01:19:09.299
 like evangelical church to have

01:19:10.259 --> 01:19:12.899
 names and contact information in place

01:19:13.779 --> 01:19:16.579
 you can just say to pastor i'm struggling with this or that

01:19:17.699 --> 01:19:18.979
 you know professionally

01:19:18.979 --> 01:19:20.500
 yeah

01:19:20.500 --> 01:19:28.659
 yeah

01:19:28.659 --> 01:19:30.739
 yeah

01:19:30.739 --> 01:19:31.379
 yeah

01:19:31.379 --> 01:19:31.939
 yeah

01:19:31.939 --> 01:19:37.459
 yeah i believe i asked tom who's one of the elders and i think he said pastor

01:19:37.459 --> 01:19:41.139
 matt has some referrals for therapists i imagine pastor nick would too

01:19:41.939 --> 01:19:47.859
 um so if you go to one of the elders i'm sure that they can get you connected with the list of

01:19:47.859 --> 01:19:53.059
 yeah who's in the community the hard part is in new haven in connecticut there's not

01:19:53.059 --> 01:19:59.779
 there's just not a lot of christian therapists unfortunately um so we hope there's more you

01:19:59.779 --> 01:20:03.219
 know if you know anyone uh you can add to the database yeah

01:20:05.939 --> 01:20:11.539
 but i do know that they have referrals people that they refer to so yeah well thank you all so

01:20:11.539 --> 01:20:15.299
 much we'll hang around if anyone has any yeah then you want to share comments but thank you so

01:20:15.300 --> 01:20:20.180
 much for we'll see you in

01:20:20.180 --> 01:20:20.260
 you