WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.620
 And there'll be a lot of things that might sound like a repeat, but, you know, it's incredibly important in the life of the church that we are doing the one another commands.

00:00:07.620 --> 00:00:15.780
 And, Corey, that was even just a great introduction, thinking about exhorting one another, coming alongside each other.

00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:28.560
 One of the best ways that I've seen for us to be able to do that as believers in our culture is, and when I say our culture, I think there are a lot of cultures that this would apply to.

00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:40.159
 But that's the idea of like a one-to-one or a one-to-two type of relationship or a type of connecting, a relational side-by-side, face-to-face kind of connection.

00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:42.280
 So that's what we're going to be talking about tonight.

00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:55.840
 And even some conversations I've had here, there have been people, as we explain what we do with ministry and stuff, there are a lot of people that have said things like, you know, I hear a lot about the idea of having one-to-ones.

00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:57.920
 I just don't know how to do that.

00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.460
 How do you go about having a one-to-one?

00:01:00.539 --> 00:01:02.760
 So that's what we're going to be talking about tonight.

00:01:03.100 --> 00:01:13.320
 When you start talking about conversations that matter, I think one of the best verses is Proverbs 20, verse 5 there that I have on the handout.

00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:13.740
 This is,

00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:20.120
 The purpose in a man's heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out.

00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:26.480
 One-to-one, one of the aims of that is to draw out the deep matters of the heart.

00:01:26.980 --> 00:01:31.740
 So we're trying to help each other walk in the fear of the Lord and determine, okay, what steps should I take?

00:01:31.820 --> 00:01:32.600
 What should I do?

00:01:33.100 --> 00:01:37.560
 And coming alongside and helping each other kind of think through that.

00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:45.960
 But then also just wanted to read the verse again that Corey read a couple of weeks ago from Ephesians chapter 4, verses 11 through 14, where it says,

00:01:45.959 --> 00:02:15.939
 And so as a church, what we're called to do is,

00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:22.079
 We're all called to do the work of ministry, and we're trying to help bring us to maturity.

00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:27.520
 We're trying to build the church up and help people be mature in Christ.

00:02:27.780 --> 00:02:32.539
 So when we talk about having conversations that matter, there are a couple of things I wanted to address.

00:02:33.020 --> 00:02:37.219
 One of the things is another one of those phrases that Corey used a couple of weeks ago.

00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:42.379
 And that is the idea that when we talk about biblical counseling, that is a form of discipleship.

00:02:42.379 --> 00:02:48.819
 That we are helping each other grow in Christ's likeness.

00:02:49.259 --> 00:02:55.139
 And so counseling, when you think about the word counseling, a lot of times it's a little bit more responsive.

00:02:55.439 --> 00:03:01.500
 You come to a conversation, and you don't necessarily have an agenda, but you're being responsive in that, thinking,

00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:06.419
 All right, how should we help each other right now in a more responsive way?

00:03:06.419 --> 00:03:09.119
 Whereas discipleship often has an agenda.

00:03:09.500 --> 00:03:14.719
 I might sit down with someone, and I'm thinking, I want to help this person know how to study the Bible.

00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:20.359
 And so we're going to talk about that as we sit across from each other in a one-to-one.

00:03:20.839 --> 00:03:24.239
 Tonight, I'm specifically addressing the first thing, and that is,

00:03:24.579 --> 00:03:28.919
 What do you do when you're with someone, and there's not necessarily an agenda?

00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:33.219
 We know we want to help each other mature in Christ, or I want to help this person,

00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:35.679
 maybe it's in my city group, or a friend.

00:03:35.839 --> 00:03:40.459
 I want to make sure we're having conversations that matter, but we don't necessarily have an agenda.

00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:42.239
 So how do I go about doing that?

00:03:42.519 --> 00:03:44.479
 So that's what we're going to be talking about tonight.

00:03:44.579 --> 00:03:51.359
 So the first thing that we need to consider is that biblical counseling is a form of discipleship.

00:03:51.739 --> 00:03:54.899
 But another thing I would say, and I don't think I have this on the notes,

00:03:54.900 --> 00:04:01.159
 but we need to learn how to create an environment that is both safe and sharpening.

00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:03.599
 Both safe and sharpening.

00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:04.439
 What do I mean by that?

00:04:04.540 --> 00:04:11.540
 Well, a safe environment is one that we have learned as we spend time together.

00:04:11.540 --> 00:04:16.000
 We learn to trust one another, and I feel like this is a safe place for me to open up

00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:17.519
 and really share what's going on.

00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:22.699
 It's a loving environment, one that is cultivated through time and through relationships.

00:04:22.699 --> 00:04:24.639
 So I know I can trust you.

00:04:24.779 --> 00:04:29.139
 I know that you are for me, and that I can share personal things with you.

00:04:29.180 --> 00:04:30.319
 That's a safe environment.

00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:33.000
 But we also need a sharpening environment.

00:04:33.139 --> 00:04:39.300
 And that is one that's willing to get uncomfortable in order to share things that need to be said,

00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:45.079
 maybe, or ask hard questions, share truths that might just make things a little bit uncomfortable.

00:04:45.579 --> 00:04:49.500
 But it's that idea, as iron sharpens iron, like there's going to be some friction,

00:04:49.500 --> 00:04:55.420
 but we've learned how to use the word like a scalpel instead of, you know, a dull blade or something,

00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:02.759
 where this is really described well in the verse that we didn't read, Ephesians 4, verse 15,

00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:03.620
 that says,

00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:09.540
 Rather speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ.

00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:17.100
 It's speaking the truth, that's the sharpening, in love would be the safe environment.

00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:18.100
 Does that make sense?

00:05:18.100 --> 00:05:21.700
 So we really have to cultivate both of those things.

00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:27.740
 A lot of times, you might be having a one-to-one or in a small group setting,

00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:29.640
 and you feel like it's a safe place.

00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:33.220
 Like, I can really share what's going on, what's on my heart.

00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:34.560
 No one's going to judge me.

00:05:34.620 --> 00:05:37.620
 I don't have to worry that people are thinking I'm an idiot or anything like that.

00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:43.379
 But people might not be willing to actually share the truth that needs to be shared,

00:05:43.379 --> 00:05:45.360
 or ask that hard question.

00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:50.019
 Or, you know, say, hey, you've actually brought that up the last three times we've met,

00:05:50.420 --> 00:05:52.659
 and I don't know that you're doing anything about that.

00:05:52.719 --> 00:05:59.459
 Is there something that we could talk about now that could really help make sure that you're not still struggling with that sin three months from now?

00:05:59.459 --> 00:06:03.519
 That's a hard thing to say to someone or a hard conversation to have,

00:06:03.579 --> 00:06:06.899
 but willing to have a sharpening conversation like that.

00:06:07.339 --> 00:06:12.439
 So we want to create an environment that is both safe and sharpening.

00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.799
 John chapter 1 says that Jesus was full of grace and truth.

00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:19.500
 Grace would be the safe environment.

00:06:19.719 --> 00:06:21.399
 Truth would be the sharpening environment.

00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:24.539
 And it's not one or the other.

00:06:24.699 --> 00:06:25.699
 It's both and.

00:06:26.019 --> 00:06:28.739
 So creating an environment that is both safe and sharpening.

00:06:29.159 --> 00:06:32.439
 So that's kind of just a couple of things that is a little bit of a background.

00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.399
 We talk about having conversations that matter.

00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:36.939
 Everybody tracking with me okay?

00:06:37.799 --> 00:06:38.120
 All right.

00:06:38.479 --> 00:06:42.439
 Well, the next thing, when you talk about having conversations that matter,

00:06:43.579 --> 00:06:47.599
 I want to stop right now and just kind of give a shout out.

00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:53.840
 But there was a professor at RTS Orlando that would come about every three years

00:06:53.840 --> 00:06:57.700
 and do different staff trainings with us back in the U.S. with campus outreach.

00:06:58.460 --> 00:07:00.700
 And his name was Jim Cofield.

00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:06.840
 And a lot of what I've learned about all of this stuff we're sharing tonight is from, you know,

00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:10.560
 going back to 2010 and some of the staff trainings he had with us.

00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.379
 So I feel like I need to give him a shout out so it's not plagiarism or anything.

00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:17.620
 No, but I really have just learned so much from that.

00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:20.540
 And in case Dr. Cofield ever somehow stumbles on this,

00:07:20.980 --> 00:07:23.300
 I want to give him the credit for a lot of what's being said.

00:07:24.540 --> 00:07:31.300
 But the natural flow of conversation is one that moves from external things

00:07:31.300 --> 00:07:35.159
 to internal things to eternal things.

00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:41.579
 Now, for any of the uni students in here that heard me share about evangelism at the CU,

00:07:41.579 --> 00:07:45.939
 this is actually the same model that we use for evangelism,

00:07:46.060 --> 00:07:49.979
 where we're thinking about how do we move conversations from external things

00:07:49.979 --> 00:07:52.399
 to internal things to eternal things.

00:07:52.539 --> 00:07:56.079
 One of the differences is outside of the church and evangelism,

00:07:56.579 --> 00:08:00.699
 that flow of conversation can take a really long time.

00:08:00.779 --> 00:08:05.539
 It might take a while and lots of meeting up before we get to eternal things,

00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:06.680
 depending on the situation.

00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:11.800
 Whereas in the church, hopefully, we're able to get to eternal things a lot quicker.

00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.340
 But we're going to be talking about how that is a flow of conversation

00:08:15.340 --> 00:08:22.160
 and some of the things that can happen if we don't necessarily do it as a flow.

00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:23.740
 That will make more sense in a minute, hopefully.

00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.540
 But first is external things.

00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:30.420
 These are just things that we just naturally talk about,

00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:33.080
 things that are going on that are outside of us.

00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:34.019
 What have we been doing?

00:08:34.019 --> 00:08:34.960
 What's going on in the city?

00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:36.079
 What's going on in the world?

00:08:36.379 --> 00:08:40.819
 What's happening with Trump and Musk and Doge and all that stuff

00:08:40.819 --> 00:08:42.980
 that people are talking about all the time right now?

00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:44.939
 It's about work.

00:08:45.059 --> 00:08:45.899
 It's about family.

00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:47.759
 It's about all those kind of things.

00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:53.639
 One of the dangers is a lot of times we can have more serious conversations

00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:56.600
 and they still stay in the external.

00:08:57.399 --> 00:08:59.100
 So, for instance, what I mean by that,

00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:01.960
 we're talking about more serious things,

00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:04.460
 but we're still just describing what's happened

00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:08.120
 and never actually talking about how that affects us.

00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:09.159
 Does that make sense?

00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.279
 That's still an external conversation when it's just presented as facts

00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.540
 or this person did this or this person did that,

00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:18.180
 what's been done to me,

00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:20.460
 just describing what happened.

00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:23.600
 The circumstances that are outside of us,

00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:25.379
 that's still an external conversation.

00:09:25.379 --> 00:09:29.620
 Just because it's serious doesn't mean it actually got deep into the heart stuff.

00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:30.519
 Does that make sense?

00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.379
 So just kind of keep that in mind as well

00:09:33.379 --> 00:09:36.580
 because we want to move conversations from external to internal.

00:09:38.439 --> 00:09:42.240
 Sometimes it is hard for people to open up,

00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:44.480
 even about just external circumstances.

00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:45.179
 Why?

00:09:45.779 --> 00:09:47.220
 Maybe because of insecurities.

00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:49.740
 Maybe because of fears.

00:09:50.379 --> 00:09:52.019
 They're unsure about, like,

00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.059
 am I going to sound dumb if I say this?

00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:56.219
 So even in the external,

00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.279
 we still have to kind of mine those things out

00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.019
 and ask questions.

00:10:01.619 --> 00:10:03.279
 So one of the things, this is not in your notes,

00:10:03.419 --> 00:10:06.579
 but one of the best ways that you'll have conversations that matter

00:10:06.579 --> 00:10:09.199
 is just learn to be a good question asker.

00:10:10.059 --> 00:10:12.599
 We'll talk about being curious in a little bit,

00:10:12.959 --> 00:10:15.339
 but asking a lot of questions

00:10:15.339 --> 00:10:16.859
 because a lot of people,

00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:19.299
 when they're insecure, fearful,

00:10:19.719 --> 00:10:20.679
 those kind of things,

00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.179
 they just won't risk being vulnerable,

00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:26.959
 and that can be really tough.

00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:28.979
 That really halts conversations

00:10:28.979 --> 00:10:31.319
 from getting into things that really matter.

00:10:31.739 --> 00:10:35.620
 But real change doesn't necessarily happen in the external.

00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:37.539
 We actually have to move to the internal,

00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:38.759
 to the matters of the heart.

00:10:38.959 --> 00:10:41.519
 You can see behavioral change happen

00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:43.439
 and it not be real change

00:10:43.439 --> 00:10:45.179
 because we didn't get to the heart.

00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:46.079
 We all know that.

00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:49.100
 But we need to make sure we're moving those conversations

00:10:49.100 --> 00:10:50.740
 from external to internal.

00:10:51.540 --> 00:10:53.740
 And we could talk more about external things,

00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:55.280
 but I think you kind of get that.

00:10:55.340 --> 00:10:56.800
 Everybody, we do that naturally.

00:10:57.300 --> 00:10:59.220
 It's a little bit easier to do that.

00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.379
 So how do we move

00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:03.780
 from the external things then

00:11:03.780 --> 00:11:05.320
 to the internal things?

00:11:05.400 --> 00:11:06.920
 Well, the internal conversations

00:11:06.920 --> 00:11:10.240
 are when you get a little bit more personal.

00:11:10.540 --> 00:11:13.160
 You start getting to matters of the heart.

00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:15.120
 You even start,

00:11:15.419 --> 00:11:17.980
 I realize this is on shaky ground here in the UK,

00:11:18.199 --> 00:11:20.219
 but you even start getting into your feelings

00:11:20.219 --> 00:11:21.500
 and emotions, right?

00:11:22.659 --> 00:11:26.219
 I think it was Henry Cloud or Gary Chapman

00:11:26.219 --> 00:11:27.539
 or somebody I first heard say,

00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:29.899
 but Keller's the one that really helped me get this.

00:11:29.980 --> 00:11:31.799
 But just the idea that your emotions

00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.679
 are like dashboard lights in a vehicle.

00:11:35.939 --> 00:11:38.100
 And often, like before I moved over here,

00:11:38.259 --> 00:11:40.740
 I had the stereotypical big truck

00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:43.240
 with a V8 engine, the terrible gas mileage.

00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:46.539
 It was a 2006, terrible for the environment, right?

00:11:46.820 --> 00:11:49.399
 But it was loud and fast and strong

00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:50.399
 and all those things.

00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:51.340
 Oh, you know.

00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.259
 But because it was a little older,

00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:58.360
 I would have these lights that would just come on

00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:00.399
 and you're just like, oh no.

00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.060
 Maybe if I ignore this,

00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:05.460
 they will go away, right?

00:12:05.580 --> 00:12:06.740
 And then sometimes they do.

00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:07.879
 Sometimes I crank it up

00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:09.500
 and the lights didn't come on.

00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:11.379
 It's like, see, there's nothing wrong with it.

00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.620
 It's fine.

00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:14.000
 Everything is fine.

00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:16.139
 And that's what we do with our emotions, right?

00:12:16.700 --> 00:12:19.539
 Oftentimes we feel something like this anger

00:12:19.539 --> 00:12:22.039
 or frustration or sadness

00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:25.159
 and we're like, ah, everything's fine.

00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:26.299
 I can ignore that.

00:12:26.419 --> 00:12:27.460
 They will go away.

00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:29.259
 And then I'll wake up the next day

00:12:29.259 --> 00:12:30.480
 and it's like, see, they're gone.

00:12:30.620 --> 00:12:31.759
 I'm not sad anymore.

00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.460
 And we can just kind of forget that it ever happened.

00:12:34.539 --> 00:12:35.519
 And then they come back

00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.259
 and it's like, maybe they'll go away again.

00:12:37.579 --> 00:12:38.799
 That's what we tend to do

00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:40.620
 with our feelings and emotions a lot of times.

00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:42.419
 And having conversations that matter,

00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:45.120
 we just don't let that happen.

00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.620
 We try to mine out the depth,

00:12:49.179 --> 00:12:50.799
 the things that are in the heart.

00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.259
 And asking, learning even to ask ourselves a question,

00:12:54.439 --> 00:12:56.279
 why does that always make me angry?

00:12:56.899 --> 00:12:59.840
 Why am I so frustrated when this happens?

00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:02.259
 Those emotions are triggering.

00:13:02.500 --> 00:13:04.559
 Something's going on in my heart.

00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:05.599
 That's not new.

00:13:05.939 --> 00:13:07.279
 I've heard that several times

00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.119
 since I've been here at St. C's.

00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:09.939
 We get that.

00:13:10.339 --> 00:13:12.379
 But learning how to pay attention to those things

00:13:12.379 --> 00:13:14.899
 and even helping others to get there

00:13:14.899 --> 00:13:16.719
 and go there in their own lives.

00:13:18.119 --> 00:13:21.819
 And so we need to actually, hear me out,

00:13:22.239 --> 00:13:25.479
 initiate getting into conversations

00:13:25.479 --> 00:13:28.179
 that deal with feelings and emotions, okay?

00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.119
 Those are God-given.

00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:33.459
 And again, they're pointing to something else

00:13:33.460 --> 00:13:34.360
 that's going on.

00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:37.960
 So we need to learn how to even set the pace for this,

00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:40.940
 create an environment where I'm willing to open up

00:13:40.940 --> 00:13:43.220
 and share how I feel about this.

00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.620
 I know my generation growing up,

00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:49.500
 even talking about the things of the Bible,

00:13:50.379 --> 00:13:54.060
 it was not, what's God teaching you

00:13:54.060 --> 00:13:56.620
 and how's that impacting you, that kind of thing.

00:13:56.660 --> 00:13:59.100
 It was more of like, what did you learn today?

00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:02.139
 And it was all about head knowledge

00:14:02.139 --> 00:14:03.019
 and those kind of things.

00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:04.940
 We would even keep spiritual conversations

00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:07.879
 in the external instead of getting

00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:09.440
 into the matters of the heart,

00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:12.680
 saying, you know, when that happens,

00:14:12.860 --> 00:14:14.759
 what's happening inside of you?

00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:17.680
 What are you feeling when that person does this?

00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:19.840
 I know you said you felt like you should have

00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:21.180
 responded like this.

00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:23.740
 Why do you think you keep feeling that?

00:14:24.040 --> 00:14:25.800
 You know, asking questions like that.

00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:29.399
 Proverbs 4.23 says to keep your heart with all vigilance

00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:31.879
 for from it flow the springs of life.

00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:36.339
 God does great work down in the depths of our souls,

00:14:36.459 --> 00:14:38.839
 down in that inner being, in the internal parts.

00:14:39.099 --> 00:14:42.000
 And we need to try to get there in our conversations.

00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:44.939
 So we're trying to get to matters of the heart.

00:14:45.359 --> 00:14:47.339
 Now, one of my big fears

00:14:47.339 --> 00:14:51.839
 is that people can be so guarded with their emotions

00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:55.040
 and guarded against being vulnerable,

00:14:55.580 --> 00:14:57.139
 that that self-protection

00:14:57.139 --> 00:15:01.120
 is keeping them from knowing Jesus more.

00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:05.620
 Because Jesus meets us in the suffering

00:15:05.620 --> 00:15:07.360
 and in the hardship.

00:15:08.139 --> 00:15:10.180
 And one of the things that might be happening

00:15:10.180 --> 00:15:11.540
 is the suffering in our life,

00:15:12.180 --> 00:15:15.399
 we know that it's always meant to lead us to Jesus.

00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:17.679
 And when we try to protect ourselves

00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:19.240
 from the hard things in the heart,

00:15:19.459 --> 00:15:22.159
 we might be protecting ourselves

00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:23.340
 from experiencing Jesus.

00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:25.179
 Because He wants to meet us there.

00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:26.659
 Does that make sense?

00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.740
 And so we need to be ready and willing

00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:32.000
 to go into the matters of the heart.

00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:37.139
 Even talking about things that affect us deeply.

00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:38.779
 Because Jesus meets us there.

00:15:39.439 --> 00:15:43.139
 To take things from external to internal,

00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:44.860
 one of the things that we say

00:15:44.860 --> 00:15:47.100
 is you have to learn to be curious.

00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.199
 What was that experience like for you?

00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:53.080
 That simple question.

00:15:54.139 --> 00:15:56.620
 I heard someone was sharing this

00:15:56.620 --> 00:15:58.740
 on a podcast I was listening to.

00:15:58.840 --> 00:15:59.679
 He was talking about,

00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:01.879
 he was having a conversation with someone

00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:03.019
 and they mentioned,

00:16:03.319 --> 00:16:05.179
 it's like, okay, what did you do this weekend?

00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:06.939
 Good external conversation.

00:16:07.059 --> 00:16:08.879
 He said, oh, well, actually my son

00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:10.620
 had a graduation.

00:16:11.299 --> 00:16:13.019
 And so we all did the family thing

00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:14.120
 and went to the graduation.

00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.500
 He said, I could have said something like,

00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:18.879
 oh, that sounds great.

00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:19.679
 I hope that was,

00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:20.980
 you had a good time with that.

00:16:21.199 --> 00:16:24.100
 But instead, what the guy asked was,

00:16:24.439 --> 00:16:26.199
 what did it feel like for you

00:16:26.199 --> 00:16:28.419
 watching your kid walk across the stage?

00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:31.699
 And it's like, all of a sudden,

00:16:31.939 --> 00:16:34.059
 that got down to a little bit of a,

00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.100
 they start having a heart-to-heart conversation

00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:38.000
 because the guy was like, for me,

00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:39.819
 I've got a kid that's coming up,

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:41.439
 three years they'll be graduating.

00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.260
 And I've often thought about

00:16:43.260 --> 00:16:44.440
 what that's going to be like

00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.220
 when they're getting ready to leave the house.

00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:47.380
 And it makes me kind of emotional.

00:16:47.540 --> 00:16:49.800
 And so they're having like an internal conversation

00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:51.860
 getting to the matters of the heart.

00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.220
 And I think that's just a great illustration

00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:57.000
 of taking something from external to internal.

00:16:57.140 --> 00:16:58.460
 It could be little phrases like,

00:16:58.560 --> 00:16:59.940
 hey, tell me more about that.

00:17:00.820 --> 00:17:03.640
 Or it seems like you've got a great story

00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:04.500
 to tell in that.

00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:08.700
 How has that impacted your life?

00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:12.099
 And I remember Dr. Cofield said,

00:17:12.220 --> 00:17:13.660
 there's kind of a trick of the trade

00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:14.900
 if you're a counselor,

00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.000
 is you ask a question like that,

00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.900
 and then you take a sip of your coffee or your water

00:17:20.900 --> 00:17:21.680
 and you just sit there.

00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:24.140
 Because that's the universal sign

00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:25.440
 that I'm not going to say anything,

00:17:25.539 --> 00:17:26.880
 it's your turn to talk, right?

00:17:27.380 --> 00:17:28.359
 So take a sip.

00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:30.160
 How's that impacted you?

00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.540
 And you're giving the signal,

00:17:33.540 --> 00:17:34.900
 hey, this is your turn to talk.

00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:37.300
 How has that shaped your life?

00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:40.460
 How do you feel like you've been shaped by those things?

00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.620
 How has that belief really changed

00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:44.700
 the way you make decisions?

00:17:45.040 --> 00:17:47.759
 Like not just talking about,

00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.100
 oh, that's really cool that you believe that or think that.

00:17:50.259 --> 00:17:52.060
 How is that impacting your life?

00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:53.259
 Just even that,

00:17:53.340 --> 00:17:55.380
 you start going a little bit deeper and deeper

00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:56.740
 into the internal things,

00:17:56.779 --> 00:17:57.540
 and that's what you want.

00:17:57.600 --> 00:17:58.700
 It could be something like

00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:00.779
 you're having an external conversation,

00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:03.600
 and you say something like,

00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.360
 what's the best part about living in your neighborhood?

00:18:07.180 --> 00:18:10.580
 What do you like most about working at this place?

00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:13.400
 How do you see yourself fitting into

00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:16.319
 that work environment five years from now?

00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:19.080
 That seems like an external conversation,

00:18:19.600 --> 00:18:22.720
 but you're actually just taking step by step by step

00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.140
 into deeper things.

00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:25.880
 And then ultimately,

00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:29.700
 we do want to get to the eternal conversations.

00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:35.560
 And one of the things that you want to understand,

00:18:35.660 --> 00:18:38.220
 you don't want to just stay in the feelings and emotions.

00:18:38.560 --> 00:18:40.720
 Like there are some people that just because

00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.160
 you had a deeper conversation into the heart,

00:18:43.540 --> 00:18:45.380
 you feel like progress has been made.

00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:46.920
 Oh, that was a good conversation.

00:18:47.580 --> 00:18:50.000
 But really, change may not have happened.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:52.640
 It's just like a little unusual sometimes

00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:54.319
 to go deep with someone like that.

00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:59.339
 I remember there was a campus outreach staff

00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:01.420
 that I had known as a student.

00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.000
 He'd kind of come up through our campus,

00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:04.779
 and I'd known as a student.

00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:07.960
 And then his new director was a buddy of mine,

00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:09.279
 and the three of us were together.

00:19:09.980 --> 00:19:12.380
 The guy that was my former student walked in,

00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:13.859
 and within like two minutes,

00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.880
 we were like into deep heart stuff,

00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:20.680
 because they'd had a baby that had had some medical problems.

00:19:21.300 --> 00:19:22.800
 We'd kind of shared some things.

00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.300
 We got in like really quickly,

00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:25.440
 and the other guy was like,

00:19:26.260 --> 00:19:28.780
 that happened really fast.

00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.040
 That's what time does.

00:19:32.040 --> 00:19:33.900
 When you have a relationship with someone,

00:19:34.280 --> 00:19:36.400
 when there's trust that has been built,

00:19:36.600 --> 00:19:39.580
 that wasn't the first conversation Josh and I had had.

00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:43.000
 That was like years of conversations, right?

00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:44.540
 And we were able in two minutes

00:19:44.540 --> 00:19:46.200
 to get to real deep heart stuff.

00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:47.580
 How are you and Sarah Jane doing?

00:19:47.740 --> 00:19:48.700
 You know, that kind of thing,

00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:50.000
 like really deep stuff.

00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:53.220
 And it takes time.

00:19:53.299 --> 00:19:54.740
 So you've got to keep that in mind,

00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:57.819
 and you don't just stay in the internal,

00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:01.259
 because we long to see lasting change happen,

00:20:01.340 --> 00:20:03.779
 which happens when we're taking the truth of God's Word

00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:05.720
 and applying them to our hearts, right?

00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.640
 If you jump to eternal too quickly, though,

00:20:10.299 --> 00:20:12.380
 there can often be a disconnect,

00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:15.040
 because you don't know specifically

00:20:15.040 --> 00:20:16.980
 how that could apply to that person's life.

00:20:18.260 --> 00:20:19.280
 In other words,

00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:20.900
 a lot of times what happens,

00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:23.740
 as good Christians,

00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:25.140
 as followers of Christ,

00:20:25.300 --> 00:20:27.320
 it's like we want to give Bible to each other,

00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:29.500
 because that's how lasting change is going to happen.

00:20:29.760 --> 00:20:32.260
 And we may not have done the work

00:20:32.260 --> 00:20:34.340
 of figuring out what's really going on

00:20:34.340 --> 00:20:35.780
 in that person's life,

00:20:35.779 --> 00:20:37.619
 and I might be speaking a truth

00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:38.779
 that is just not ringing,

00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.839
 like really connecting today,

00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:43.379
 because of what's really going on

00:20:43.379 --> 00:20:44.259
 in that person's life,

00:20:44.420 --> 00:20:47.160
 and I didn't take the time to figure that out.

00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:48.119
 Does that make sense?

00:20:48.619 --> 00:20:51.879
 So don't jump to eternal too quickly, okay?

00:20:52.139 --> 00:20:53.379
 We want to get to eternal.

00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:55.059
 That's what we're trying to get to Scripture.

00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:57.099
 But don't do it so quickly

00:20:57.099 --> 00:20:59.639
 that you miss where the person really is.

00:21:00.220 --> 00:21:03.940
 And often we can feel like we're being faithful

00:21:03.940 --> 00:21:05.500
 just because we talked about Scripture

00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:09.820
 when it really might not have even been

00:21:09.820 --> 00:21:11.120
 what the Lord was wanting to do

00:21:11.120 --> 00:21:11.980
 in that person's life,

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.600
 and we just didn't take the time to go there.

00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:15.740
 Does that make sense?

00:21:16.779 --> 00:21:21.680
 So going through that flow of external to internal,

00:21:22.120 --> 00:21:23.380
 but then getting to eternal.

00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:25.519
 To take it to eternal,

00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.279
 we need to be intentionally thinking,

00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:30.519
 what is God wanting to do here?

00:21:31.100 --> 00:21:33.500
 What is He trying to do

00:21:33.500 --> 00:21:35.200
 in my friend's life?

00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:38.119
 And ultimately,

00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.140
 God is not trying to fix all of our problems.

00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:44.279
 God is giving us His presence.

00:21:45.819 --> 00:21:47.359
 Does that make sense to you?

00:21:48.140 --> 00:21:50.460
 Like the goal is not for everyone's problems

00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:51.140
 to be fixed.

00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:52.839
 The goal is to know God.

00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:54.859
 There are often times that people

00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:56.299
 will go through things,

00:21:56.299 --> 00:21:59.839
 and it seems like the Lord is never fixing it.

00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:01.960
 But God has been near,

00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:04.400
 and His nearness is our good.

00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.340
 His presence is what we're longing for.

00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:09.420
 So it's not just like,

00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:10.360
 okay, what's the verse

00:22:10.360 --> 00:22:11.880
 that's going to fix this situation?

00:22:12.059 --> 00:22:14.140
 It's how can I help this person

00:22:14.140 --> 00:22:16.200
 connect with God right now?

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:18.299
 Okay?

00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.019
 You're with me?

00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.120
 Is this boring?

00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:22.740
 Are we okay?

00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:23.620
 Do I need to move on?

00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:24.519
 Because I've got a lot of stuff

00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:25.220
 I can just jump to.

00:22:25.340 --> 00:22:25.940
 It's like, okay.

00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:26.380
 Okay.

00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:26.740
 All right.

00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:30.140
 External, internal to eternal.

00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:33.759
 Often I see people

00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:35.740
 just trying to give Bible verses

00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:37.140
 with encouragement.

00:22:37.340 --> 00:22:39.100
 You just need to believe this.

00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:40.700
 But what happens

00:22:40.700 --> 00:22:41.700
 when you're in a situation

00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:42.759
 where the person's like,

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.420
 I'm just trying to get out of bed right now.

00:22:47.360 --> 00:22:48.799
 Sometimes they don't need us

00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:49.920
 to just give them the verse.

00:22:50.019 --> 00:22:51.740
 Maybe that's the next conversation.

00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:53.640
 And what they need right now

00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:55.059
 is just our presence.

00:22:55.940 --> 00:22:57.220
 And how can we be

00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:58.279
 the hands and feet of Jesus

00:22:58.279 --> 00:22:59.640
 to this person right now

00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:00.640
 with our presence?

00:23:02.420 --> 00:23:03.900
 And so a lot of times

00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:05.319
 people will even hear

00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:07.640
 the verses that we're trying to share

00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:09.400
 to try to help them out.

00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:10.839
 And it just feels like guilt

00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:12.680
 and condemnation to them

00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:13.839
 because they can't even,

00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:15.680
 like I don't feel like

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:17.460
 I can even open my Bible right now.

00:23:17.539 --> 00:23:20.059
 And when I do finally get out of bed

00:23:20.059 --> 00:23:21.500
 and I can open my Bible,

00:23:21.740 --> 00:23:23.319
 the things that are going on in my life

00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.900
 are so pressing on my mind and my heart,

00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:27.259
 I can't focus.

00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:29.440
 And now I just feel guilty about that.

00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.599
 And so learning how to speak truth

00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:34.420
 even to that,

00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:35.240
 that's like, hey,

00:23:35.539 --> 00:23:37.779
 God just wants to be with you right now.

00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:39.460
 And He is with us.

00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:41.519
 He knows,

00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:44.839
 and we've heard some great theology

00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:46.380
 about God's presence with us.

00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:47.839
 He knows what we're going through.

00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:50.240
 He gave up His only Son.

00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:53.500
 He knows what it's like to lose that.

00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:54.660
 He knows what it's like

00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:56.180
 to have broken relationship.

00:23:56.779 --> 00:23:57.720
 All those kind of things

00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:58.900
 and we can remind people

00:23:58.900 --> 00:24:00.200
 that God is with us.

00:24:00.259 --> 00:24:02.420
 He hears and He knows.

00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:03.059
 Okay?

00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:05.319
 So we're trying to help them

00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:07.839
 get to that eternal perspective.

00:24:08.539 --> 00:24:10.120
 Now, they talk about,

00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:11.980
 there are some kind of rules

00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:13.799
 that people break often

00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:15.660
 in this flow of external

00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:17.060
 to internal to eternal.

00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:19.400
 If you're always talking

00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:20.880
 about external things,

00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:23.040
 you're fun to be around,

00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.580
 but there's no real depth

00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:25.820
 to those conversations.

00:24:26.320 --> 00:24:27.000
 And so in some ways,

00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:28.279
 that's kind of breaking a rule.

00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:29.320
 Like, we should be connecting

00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:30.759
 on a much deeper level than that.

00:24:32.259 --> 00:24:34.300
 You will often be surprised

00:24:34.300 --> 00:24:36.600
 by how quickly

00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:39.360
 or readily someone might be

00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:40.920
 to go to internal

00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:42.279
 and eternal things

00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:43.399
 if we're willing

00:24:43.399 --> 00:24:44.799
 to go there with them.

00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:45.960
 So, you know,

00:24:46.339 --> 00:24:47.240
 one person said,

00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:48.259
 just take a couple of shots

00:24:48.259 --> 00:24:48.940
 across a bow

00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:50.859
 and see what lands, you know?

00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:53.019
 Just try some things.

00:24:53.139 --> 00:24:53.940
 Ask some questions.

00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:55.539
 Some people are just dying

00:24:55.539 --> 00:24:57.059
 to share and to go there.

00:24:57.299 --> 00:24:58.359
 And we never know that

00:24:58.359 --> 00:24:59.059
 unless we're willing

00:24:59.059 --> 00:25:00.039
 to go there with them.

00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:02.879
 Some people try to go

00:25:02.879 --> 00:25:04.779
 to internal too quickly.

00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:06.879
 And that breaks a rule too.

00:25:07.059 --> 00:25:08.920
 So the question is,

00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:09.519
 like, okay,

00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:10.119
 how do I know

00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:11.579
 if I'm moving too fast?

00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:13.400
 Well, I mentioned this

00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:13.879
 a little bit

00:25:13.879 --> 00:25:15.420
 in my talk in evangelism

00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:16.059
 to the CU,

00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:16.920
 that it's,

00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:18.460
 some of it's honestly

00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:19.720
 just having a little bit

00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:20.660
 of social awareness

00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:22.980
 that when I'm asking a question,

00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:24.599
 you can kind of tell

00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.539
 when someone puts up the wall

00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:27.859
 and says,

00:25:27.980 --> 00:25:30.019
 okay, that's far enough.

00:25:30.619 --> 00:25:31.660
 You know what I'm talking about?

00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:33.680
 When it's like,

00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:34.359
 yeah,

00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:35.639
 they're not willing

00:25:35.639 --> 00:25:36.139
 to go there.

00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:36.960
 So instead of, like,

00:25:37.339 --> 00:25:38.519
 continuing to move forward,

00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:39.240
 it's kind of like,

00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:40.539
 okay, we'll stay right here.

00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:42.400
 And we might keep it

00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:42.839
 a little bit

00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:43.740
 and then try again

00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:44.839
 to go a little bit deeper.

00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:47.359
 And just through time,

00:25:47.619 --> 00:25:48.099
 trust,

00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:48.940
 you say, okay,

00:25:49.139 --> 00:25:49.799
 they are willing

00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:50.519
 to go there now.

00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:51.220
 Good.

00:25:51.740 --> 00:25:52.720
 Could we go a little deeper?

00:25:52.819 --> 00:25:53.960
 Let's ask another question.

00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:55.319
 And it's kind of like this,

00:25:55.420 --> 00:25:56.519
 just being aware

00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:57.720
 of what's going on

00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:58.720
 and being present,

00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:00.000
 you can kind of tell

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.299
 when people are putting up the,

00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:02.639
 giving you the stiff arm,

00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:02.940
 you know,

00:26:03.019 --> 00:26:04.119
 the metaphorical stiff arm.

00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:08.639
 So just kind of be aware of that

00:26:08.639 --> 00:26:12.019
 and not trying to go places too quickly

00:26:12.019 --> 00:26:13.319
 before you've listened,

00:26:13.639 --> 00:26:15.419
 before you're really trying to sense

00:26:15.419 --> 00:26:17.119
 what the Lord is trying to do there.

00:26:18.399 --> 00:26:20.459
 So having those conversations,

00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:22.500
 moving towards people

00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:24.299
 and seeing what's receptive

00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:24.979
 and what's not.

00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:28.180
 All right.

00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:31.860
 Yeah, real quickly,

00:26:32.140 --> 00:26:33.099
 just as a side note,

00:26:33.099 --> 00:26:35.019
 this is a little bit,

00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.000
 when people are hurting,

00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:39.059
 this is something I heard one time

00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:40.039
 that was really, really helpful.

00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:41.779
 When people are hurting,

00:26:42.259 --> 00:26:44.319
 sometimes they say things

00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.140
 that are just flat out wrong

00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:50.700
 and maybe even offensive towards God.

00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:52.779
 And it was,

00:26:52.860 --> 00:26:54.000
 I think it was John Piper

00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:55.619
 that gave a sermon on Job

00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:58.519
 and the phrase he used was,

00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:01.500
 and I forget what version of the Bible

00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:02.359
 it talks about this,

00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:02.799
 but it's,

00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:04.240
 the phrase was,

00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:05.839
 there are words in the wind.

00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:07.460
 And essentially,

00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:08.480
 when people are hurting,

00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:09.220
 they're just going to say

00:27:09.220 --> 00:27:10.440
 all kinds of things

00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:11.960
 and we don't have to freak out

00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:12.839
 if they say something

00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:14.299
 that's like biblically incorrect

00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:16.259
 and feel like we've got to correct them.

00:27:16.339 --> 00:27:17.259
 Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second.

00:27:17.539 --> 00:27:19.539
 Like, you need to remember

00:27:19.539 --> 00:27:21.339
 that what you're saying is not true.

00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:21.779
 It's like,

00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:23.980
 just sometimes just let it,

00:27:23.980 --> 00:27:24.460
 let it go

00:27:24.460 --> 00:27:27.420
 and let those be as words in the wind.

00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:28.539
 Let them go away.

00:27:28.900 --> 00:27:30.099
 We'll address those later

00:27:30.099 --> 00:27:31.180
 if they're still there,

00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:33.599
 but just be present with people

00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:34.960
 and be there for them

00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:36.900
 and not feel like you have to correct

00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:38.240
 all the wrong theology.

00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:39.480
 When people are hurting,

00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:40.700
 that's what happens.

00:27:40.940 --> 00:27:41.620
 Does that make sense?

00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:43.620
 Okay, that's a little side note there.

00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:44.119
 Okay.

00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:49.539
 A couple minutes.

00:27:51.139 --> 00:27:52.939
 So the three types of conversation,

00:27:53.099 --> 00:27:53.939
 what I'll say right there,

00:27:54.019 --> 00:27:54.979
 just be aware

00:27:54.979 --> 00:27:57.879
 that the three types of conversation,

00:27:58.199 --> 00:27:59.639
 there's competitive,

00:27:59.919 --> 00:28:01.139
 informational, and connecting.

00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:02.659
 A lot of times we're having

00:28:02.659 --> 00:28:05.019
 these kind of conversations

00:28:05.019 --> 00:28:06.039
 without realizing it,

00:28:06.099 --> 00:28:07.399
 like competitive conversation.

00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:08.919
 That's when it's like,

00:28:08.979 --> 00:28:10.259
 you can't wait for them to shut up

00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:11.579
 because you've got something to say,

00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:12.019
 right?

00:28:12.140 --> 00:28:12.960
 And it's kind of like

00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.660
 you're trying to win the conversation

00:28:14.660 --> 00:28:18.440
 by having the right thing to say

00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:19.039
 or whatever.

00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:21.440
 A good motivation behind that

00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:23.379
 might be you're trying to identify with them

00:28:23.379 --> 00:28:24.740
 when you're like,

00:28:24.819 --> 00:28:25.240
 oh yeah,

00:28:25.420 --> 00:28:25.920
 well I had,

00:28:26.059 --> 00:28:26.240
 you know,

00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.599
 this happened or whatever,

00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:29.839
 but it can come across,

00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:30.879
 and this is a bad motivation,

00:28:30.940 --> 00:28:31.879
 it comes across as like

00:28:31.879 --> 00:28:33.539
 you're trying to one up the other person.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:34.759
 So just be careful

00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:36.720
 about a competitive conversation.

00:28:39.879 --> 00:28:41.680
 Man, I could say a lot more about that,

00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.059
 but just to move on.

00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:44.740
 An informational conversation,

00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.539
 this is what a lot of us have

00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:49.279
 where it's like,

00:28:49.399 --> 00:28:51.139
 oh, I've got a truth they need to hear,

00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.200
 and we kind of give a little sermonette

00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:54.879
 because it's like,

00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:55.759
 oh, I've got a verse

00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:56.980
 that would really speak to this,

00:28:57.019 --> 00:28:57.639
 and we can't wait

00:28:57.639 --> 00:28:59.519
 to just give them that information

00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:01.940
 because we want to be helpful, right?

00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:03.400
 But what it does,

00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.779
 it often causes us

00:29:04.779 --> 00:29:05.820
 to not be listening

00:29:05.820 --> 00:29:07.160
 to what's really being said,

00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:08.900
 and a lot of times

00:29:08.900 --> 00:29:10.779
 it could be information

00:29:10.779 --> 00:29:11.740
 that they could get off

00:29:11.740 --> 00:29:13.320
 chat GBT, right Christian?

00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:13.720
 Yeah.

00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:16.080
 Sorry.

00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:19.360
 But these connecting conversations,

00:29:19.660 --> 00:29:20.640
 that's the goal.

00:29:20.900 --> 00:29:22.320
 We want to have conversations

00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:25.779
 that we really are connecting with people,

00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:26.660
 and that is

00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:28.200
 when you're communicating

00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:30.160
 through words and body language

00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.160
 that I'm present,

00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:32.380
 I'm interested,

00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:33.519
 I'm curious,

00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:34.480
 I'm with you.

00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:36.580
 People will open up

00:29:36.580 --> 00:29:38.279
 and tell you about their lives.

00:29:39.460 --> 00:29:42.320
 And so when you are able

00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:44.519
 to have conversations

00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:45.440
 that really,

00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:48.220
 if all we did was connect,

00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:49.779
 and that's what was needed,

00:29:49.940 --> 00:29:50.519
 that's good.

00:29:50.580 --> 00:29:51.440
 Because sometimes

00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.980
 it is just that connecting presence,

00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:55.180
 that relationship,

00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:56.560
 that does the healing.

00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:58.140
 Just people knowing

00:29:58.140 --> 00:29:59.460
 that they're not alone,

00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:00.440
 sorry,

00:30:00.520 --> 00:30:01.580
 that they're not alone,

00:30:02.100 --> 00:30:03.820
 facing this alone.

00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:04.940
 They're not isolated,

00:30:05.120 --> 00:30:06.060
 that I'm connecting

00:30:06.060 --> 00:30:07.460
 with someone else.

00:30:07.840 --> 00:30:09.180
 And when we're connecting

00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:10.660
 with people

00:30:10.660 --> 00:30:11.680
 in these conversations,

00:30:12.300 --> 00:30:13.700
 that's when they feel

00:30:13.700 --> 00:30:14.500
 like it's safe,

00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:15.220
 that environment

00:30:15.220 --> 00:30:16.000
 that's safe

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.380
 and sharpening,

00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:18.840
 it allows that to happen.

00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:19.679
 Well,

00:30:22.059 --> 00:30:23.899
 I put on the back there

00:30:23.899 --> 00:30:25.139
 as we kind of close

00:30:25.139 --> 00:30:25.799
 and run out of time,

00:30:26.419 --> 00:30:27.559
 I just gave like

00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:29.579
 an example conversation

00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:31.379
 of what,

00:30:31.899 --> 00:30:32.419
 you know,

00:30:32.439 --> 00:30:33.099
 might be cheesy,

00:30:33.259 --> 00:30:33.779
 but just like,

00:30:33.899 --> 00:30:34.740
 here's an example

00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:35.639
 of what I'm talking about.

00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:35.899
 You know,

00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:37.079
 you're sitting down

00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:37.759
 with someone

00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:39.279
 and you want it

00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:40.139
 to be a good,

00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:41.559
 meaningful conversation

00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:42.779
 with that person.

00:30:43.419 --> 00:30:44.500
 And so you're trying

00:30:44.500 --> 00:30:44.779
 to think,

00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:45.019
 all right,

00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:45.959
 how can I move this,

00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:46.440
 maybe somebody

00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:47.259
 from your city group,

00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:48.200
 but how can I move this

00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:49.240
 from external

00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:50.360
 to internal to internal?

00:30:51.019 --> 00:30:51.380
 And,

00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:51.740
 you know,

00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:52.600
 you're going through

00:30:52.600 --> 00:30:53.079
 the normal,

00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:54.400
 you're asking questions,

00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:55.100
 you're talking about

00:30:55.100 --> 00:30:55.819
 external things,

00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:56.200
 and it's,

00:30:56.380 --> 00:30:56.579
 you know,

00:30:56.620 --> 00:30:57.779
 you might say something like,

00:30:58.120 --> 00:30:59.039
 it sounds like you've got

00:30:59.039 --> 00:30:59.900
 a lot going on.

00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:00.980
 What do you think God

00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:01.920
 is teaching you

00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:02.660
 through all that?

00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:03.640
 And I've got,

00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:04.559
 in parentheses,

00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:05.140
 they're like,

00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:06.660
 that's actually

00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:08.240
 an external question,

00:31:08.700 --> 00:31:09.900
 but it's kind of

00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:10.840
 one of those safe ones

00:31:10.840 --> 00:31:11.600
 that you can ask,

00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.259
 it's kind of easy

00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:12.660
 to answer.

00:31:12.740 --> 00:31:13.600
 What is he teaching you?

00:31:13.620 --> 00:31:14.200
 That could be the,

00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:15.200
 in the head,

00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.100
 not necessarily

00:31:16.100 --> 00:31:16.779
 in the heart,

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:18.200
 but then one,

00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:19.080
 an answer you hear

00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:19.920
 all the time,

00:31:20.120 --> 00:31:21.360
 like when you have

00:31:21.360 --> 00:31:22.400
 conversations like that,

00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:24.120
 he's teaching me patience,

00:31:24.819 --> 00:31:25.039
 right?

00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:25.940
 And then,

00:31:26.019 --> 00:31:26.240
 you know,

00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:26.880
 you know that,

00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:27.319
 you know,

00:31:27.360 --> 00:31:28.180
 when we feel like God's

00:31:28.180 --> 00:31:29.000
 teaching us patience,

00:31:29.120 --> 00:31:29.900
 that usually means

00:31:29.900 --> 00:31:30.920
 that we're having to wait

00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:32.019
 to see prayers answered,

00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:33.100
 we're struggling

00:31:33.100 --> 00:31:34.180
 with wanting to control

00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:34.880
 the situation,

00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.019
 we're in the middle

00:31:36.019 --> 00:31:36.680
 of suffering,

00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:37.880
 or we're having

00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:39.360
 to trust God's timing

00:31:39.360 --> 00:31:40.160
 on things.

00:31:40.779 --> 00:31:41.840
 Do you feel like

00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:42.600
 you're in a season

00:31:42.600 --> 00:31:43.279
 like that?

00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.379
 And then they might

00:31:45.379 --> 00:31:45.859
 say,

00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:46.399
 you know,

00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:47.299
 yeah,

00:31:47.399 --> 00:31:47.799
 actually,

00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:48.599
 and it gets them

00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:49.259
 to talking,

00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:50.079
 yeah,

00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:51.480
 I feel like God's

00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:52.079
 not hearing me

00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:52.680
 when I pray,

00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:53.960
 or I really am

00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:54.720
 trying to control

00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:55.559
 these situations,

00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.099
 and I just feel like

00:31:57.099 --> 00:31:58.359
 I'm losing that control,

00:31:58.680 --> 00:31:59.799
 and so you might

00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:00.379
 be able to say,

00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:00.639
 you know,

00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:01.759
 what are promises

00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:02.879
 of God that you're

00:32:02.879 --> 00:32:04.079
 clinging to right now?

00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:06.160
 And that's when you

00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.279
 are really shifting it

00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:08.099
 to the eternal,

00:32:08.899 --> 00:32:09.500
 and then,

00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:10.039
 you know,

00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:10.960
 you might even say,

00:32:11.059 --> 00:32:11.559
 would you like to hear

00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:12.419
 a truth that I had

00:32:12.419 --> 00:32:13.220
 to cling to when I

00:32:13.220 --> 00:32:13.740
 was going through

00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:14.599
 something like that?

00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:15.799
 Again,

00:32:15.859 --> 00:32:16.480
 that might be a little

00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:17.000
 bit cheesy,

00:32:17.139 --> 00:32:17.839
 but it demonstrates

00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:19.000
 how do you move

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:19.879
 from external

00:32:19.879 --> 00:32:20.599
 to internal

00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:21.399
 to eternal,

00:32:22.139 --> 00:32:23.200
 and then I just

00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:24.200
 had a few sample

00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:25.559
 questions as well

00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:26.279
 that's like,

00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:28.700
 just some things

00:32:28.700 --> 00:32:30.119
 to open up discussion,

00:32:30.419 --> 00:32:31.039
 and that's one of

00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:31.599
 the things that I

00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:32.559
 would say work on

00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:32.839
 that,

00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:33.259
 like,

00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:34.259
 what are things,

00:32:34.339 --> 00:32:35.119
 we all know don't

00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:35.919
 ask yes or no

00:32:35.919 --> 00:32:36.339
 questions,

00:32:36.419 --> 00:32:37.279
 but ask open-ended

00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:37.759
 questions,

00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:38.000
 like,

00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:38.799
 what are some

00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:39.599
 questions that I

00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:40.339
 could have in my,

00:32:40.399 --> 00:32:40.659
 you know,

00:32:40.660 --> 00:32:41.580
 in my back pocket

00:32:41.580 --> 00:32:42.440
 that I could ask

00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:43.740
 someone that would

00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.660
 help move things

00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:45.100
 forward,

00:32:45.620 --> 00:32:46.740
 and so I have some

00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:47.820
 sample questions there.

00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:50.040
 That's all we have

00:32:50.040 --> 00:32:50.980
 time for right now.

00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:50.980


00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:50.980