WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:17.920 Good morning. We'll now have the Bible reading. Today we have two passages. Our first passage is Galatians chapter 3 verses 23 and then going into chapter 4 verse 7. 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:20.120 ! Thank you. 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:39.980 And then our second passage is 1 Timothy chapter 2 verses 8 to 15. In this first passage Paul is talking about the law and faith and our adoption as sons now that Jesus has come. 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:44.180 So from verse 23. 00:00:44.179 --> 00:00:57.920 Now before faith came we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:07.420 So then the law was our guardian until Christ came in order that we might be justified by faith. 00:01:07.420 --> 00:01:13.240 But now that faith has come we are no longer under a guardian. 00:01:14.540 --> 00:01:19.000 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. 00:01:20.340 --> 00:01:26.939 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 00:01:28.219 --> 00:01:31.159 There is neither Jew nor Greek. 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:33.820 There is neither slave nor free. 00:01:33.819 --> 00:01:37.279 There is no male or female. 00:01:37.979 --> 00:01:41.279 For you are all one in Christ Jesus. 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:46.239 And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's offspring. 00:01:46.639 --> 00:01:48.799 Heirs according to promise. 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:57.439 I mean that the heir as long as he is a child is no different from a slave. 00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:00.459 Though he is the owner of everything. 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:05.920 But he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 00:02:07.039 --> 00:02:16.340 In the same way we also when we were children were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. 00:02:16.340 --> 00:02:28.460 But when the fullness of time had come God sent forth his son born of woman born under the law to redeem those who were under the law. 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:33.060 So that we might receive adoption as sons. 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:39.240 And because you are sons God has sent the spirit of his son into our hearts. 00:02:39.860 --> 00:02:41.460 Crying Abba. 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:42.599 Father. 00:02:44.180 --> 00:02:47.300 So you are no longer a slave but a son. 00:02:48.099 --> 00:02:52.099 And if a son then an heir through God. 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:56.199 We'll now turn to the second passage. 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:59.860 And that's 1 Timothy chapter 2 verses 8 to 15. 00:02:59.860 --> 00:03:11.580 In this passage Paul is giving more specific instructions about how we should behave as sons of God. 00:03:12.160 --> 00:03:13.600 Now that Christ has come. 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:23.860 I desire then that in every place the men should pray lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling. 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:30.540 Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel. 00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:33.780 With modesty and self-control. 00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:39.600 Not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire. 00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:46.400 But with what is proper for women who profess godliness with good works. 00:03:47.920 --> 00:03:51.920 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:58.560 I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:01.339 Rather she is to remain quiet. 00:04:02.299 --> 00:04:05.500 For Adam was formed first and then Eve. 00:04:06.579 --> 00:04:08.319 And Adam was not deceived. 00:04:09.119 --> 00:04:12.819 But the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 00:04:12.819 --> 00:04:22.180 Yet she will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control. 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:25.459 So this is God's word to us today. 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:27.680 Let us all be blessed by hearing it. 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:33.220 Well good morning. 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.079 Sorry I'm just trying to get myself organised here. 00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:38.759 Where are we? 00:04:39.660 --> 00:04:41.000 We're everywhere this morning. 00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:41.579 I'm everywhere. 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:42.639 Galatians. 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:42.960 Sorry. 00:04:46.960 --> 00:04:48.240 There we are in Galatians 3. 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.100 Can you sense I'm nervous? 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:53.800 How about we pray? 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:55.180 Let's come to God's word. 00:04:57.439 --> 00:04:58.480 Merciful God. 00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:03.340 Give us such an overwhelming reverence for your holy word. 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:06.800 That we fear to misinterpret it. 00:05:07.960 --> 00:05:10.340 That we don't domesticate it. 00:05:10.339 --> 00:05:16.159 Help us to want to passionately understand it and with our hearts love it. 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:21.179 And may our wills obey it and embrace it. 00:05:22.379 --> 00:05:26.639 Lord please give me truthfulness and clarity. 00:05:27.559 --> 00:05:30.879 Help us to know that all your word is for our good. 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:35.439 Please give all of us listening ears to your word. 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:36.059 In Jesus name. 00:05:36.259 --> 00:05:36.519 Amen. 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:36.599 Amen. 00:05:38.299 --> 00:05:44.779 Well one of the reasons for having this series on men and women is our commitment as elders. 00:05:44.919 --> 00:05:48.120 It's not the only reason but one of the reasons is our commitment as elders. 00:05:48.259 --> 00:05:55.000 We want to guide a conversation with the church to re-look at what scripture says about female deacons. 00:05:55.579 --> 00:06:01.819 But without this series if we just jumped right into that question of female deacons. 00:06:01.819 --> 00:06:12.779 I'm guessing, well going off what Christians tend to do, we pick verses and we use it as a rock to throw it at each other. 00:06:13.180 --> 00:06:22.240 We need this series to ground ourselves in the big picture of what the Bible says about women in ministry. 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:27.920 So that we can actually speak to each other and not speak past each other. 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:33.259 Today I'm not going to address female deacons directly. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.199 The elders are going to begin that conversation in term three. 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:48.199 What we're going to do today, we're going to go on a helicopter ride and we've got some of the most trickiest passages in scripture. 00:06:48.659 --> 00:06:51.519 So buckle yourself in. 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:55.079 We've got a long way to go. 00:06:55.860 --> 00:07:01.579 We're just going to helicopter ride over the big picture to see what the Apostle Paul says about women in ministry. 00:07:01.579 --> 00:07:07.240 All right, here's a quote to launch us off. 00:07:08.620 --> 00:07:14.159 Jesus treats women with respect and everything looks as if it's going in a far better direction. 00:07:14.379 --> 00:07:16.919 Equality and dignity are on the horizon. 00:07:18.500 --> 00:07:20.139 And along comes St. Paul. 00:07:21.819 --> 00:07:23.899 I'm putting my own tone in here, okay. 00:07:23.899 --> 00:07:27.439 But who messes it all up with a handful of verses. 00:07:28.459 --> 00:07:35.039 That when taken at face value, and many people do take them at face value, very firmly put women in their place. 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.579 Some people paint Paul as a misogynist. 00:07:44.739 --> 00:07:46.879 Even while calling him saint. 00:07:48.719 --> 00:07:51.060 Tipping the hat to the fact that he is an apostle. 00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:58.220 Let's look at the words Paul has to individual women in the New Testament for a moment. 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:00.259 Romans 16 verse 1. 00:08:00.379 --> 00:08:00.959 Just listen. 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:02.360 You don't have to... 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:03.500 Or flip there if you want. 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:05.360 Make sure I'm telling the truth. 00:08:05.840 --> 00:08:08.040 I commend to you our sister Phoebe. 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:11.220 Now Dr. Peter Head at Oxford. 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:13.279 He's researched ancient letters. 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:19.060 He says Phoebe is a financial patron of Paul's ministry. 00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:25.259 She's being commended probably because she's carrying the letter of Romans to the church. 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:31.620 She is representing Paul to the letter of Romans. 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:33.480 Like we prize Romans, don't we? 00:08:33.779 --> 00:08:37.919 That church, the Jews and Greeks were disunified. 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:42.580 It was a big entrustment for Phoebe. 00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:52.400 A few verses later, greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus who risked their necks for my life. 00:08:53.400 --> 00:08:56.320 A husband and wife who have a church in their house. 00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:02.639 Priscilla who in private instructs Apollos about the gospel more fully. 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:10.659 In Philippians 4, he calls two other ladies, Euodia and Syntyche, his co-workers for the gospel. 00:09:11.319 --> 00:09:12.740 Again, commending them. 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:18.419 Paul feels indebted to women. 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:21.539 He publicly acknowledges his dependence. 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:25.879 He trusts Phoebe with enormous responsibility. 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:29.340 He puts women on the same fellow footing. 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:31.460 My fellow workers for the gospel. 00:09:31.779 --> 00:09:35.939 He tells the church, co-workers for the gospel, look at their example. 00:09:36.100 --> 00:09:36.919 Follow their example. 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:46.980 I think writing Paul off as a misogynist says more about the people charging him than it does about Paul. 00:09:46.980 --> 00:09:58.379 But there is no question, Paul penned the most controversial passages that speak to women in church ministry. 00:10:00.980 --> 00:10:11.519 Let me introduce some labels at this point just to generalise certain positions people hold among church. 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:16.920 So you've got egalitarians who say there's equality in everything. 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:26.899 And then you've got complementarians, which this series is more in line with, saying we're the same but different roles. 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:39.300 Now both egalitarians, complementarians, they pick a passage, often Galatians 3.28 and 1 Timothy 2 says this passage is clearer and interprets the rest. 00:10:39.920 --> 00:10:44.100 Well, that's my caricature of how often the debate is framed. 00:10:44.100 --> 00:10:52.279 I think it's much more useful and more interesting to ask a different question. 00:10:53.379 --> 00:10:55.200 What is Paul's mind? 00:10:56.040 --> 00:11:00.980 What is his thinking that he penned both? 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:03.700 What is his thinking? 00:11:04.259 --> 00:11:07.200 Let's not use one passage to smash the other. 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.560 How does that fit in his mind? 00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:16.180 How is that in harmony in his own mind? 00:11:17.060 --> 00:11:20.940 What does he think about Jesus and his church that makes sense of all this? 00:11:20.940 --> 00:11:27.160 So we're going to look at three passages. 00:11:31.560 --> 00:11:34.380 It's a lot to comprehend. 00:11:34.760 --> 00:11:38.500 I was about to apologise, but we need to go here to take it all in, I think. 00:11:39.540 --> 00:11:42.060 I want us to get into the mind of Paul. 00:11:42.540 --> 00:11:43.700 That's our goal for this morning. 00:11:43.800 --> 00:11:45.260 What is the mind of Paul? 00:11:45.259 --> 00:11:48.379 And then we're going to finish with a few conclusions. 00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:52.299 So if you can turn with me to Galatians 3. 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:58.000 And verse 28 is the key verse. 00:11:59.879 --> 00:12:02.460 There is neither Jew nor Greek. 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.059 There is neither slave nor free. 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.019 There is no male and female. 00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:10.559 For you're all one in Christ Jesus. 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:23.399 So the context, Paul is arguing against the false gospel that you need to submit to the Mosaic law and circumcision to be saved. 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:26.519 Have a look at verse 26. 00:12:26.699 --> 00:12:28.659 That is the key theological claim. 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:36.159 For in Christ Jesus, you are all sons of God through faith. 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:42.480 Faith unites a person to Christ. 00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:49.199 That true one flesh union that marriage points to. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:51.980 Faith unites us to Jesus. 00:12:52.699 --> 00:12:54.339 Sons isn't a gender claim. 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.059 It's a theological status. 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:01.319 In ancient times, the eldest son represented the family. 00:13:02.179 --> 00:13:05.679 Carried on the family name and inherited the family estate. 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.459 They're an heir. 00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:15.659 All believers, men and women, boys and girls, have the status as sons. 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.679 Because by faith we're united to the son. 00:13:22.419 --> 00:13:24.879 Full members of the household of God. 00:13:25.839 --> 00:13:29.939 Full heirs of the promises. 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:31.759 By faith alone. 00:13:32.539 --> 00:13:33.059 Nothing else. 00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:39.339 Now verse 27, when it talks about baptism, it's not saying baptism saves people. 00:13:39.719 --> 00:13:46.179 It's saying baptism is the symbol that replaces circumcision of who is in the household of God, who are sons. 00:13:47.539 --> 00:13:49.099 So then we come to verse 28. 00:13:49.739 --> 00:13:51.299 Brings out the implications of all this. 00:13:52.339 --> 00:13:56.239 You don't need to be a Jew to be a son. 00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:01.120 God doesn't play favorites with any people group. 00:14:01.820 --> 00:14:02.820 It's only faith. 00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:07.379 There should be no national division in the church. 00:14:07.860 --> 00:14:10.120 No sense of superiority even. 00:14:10.419 --> 00:14:11.860 It's only faith. 00:14:11.860 --> 00:14:20.779 You don't need to be free and not a slave to be a son. 00:14:20.779 --> 00:14:23.340 There should be no social division. 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:33.060 A slave in ancient times, they should know they have the highest status in the cosmos. 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.560 Even as they're following orders from a human being. 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:43.799 I heard of a church that was near an army base. 00:14:44.699 --> 00:14:51.899 And these soldiers who were all about rank during the week and following orders and saluting, 00:14:52.219 --> 00:14:55.819 when they came into the church, they did not salute each other. 00:14:57.079 --> 00:14:57.959 That's right. 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:02.700 It's an expression of who we are in Christ. 00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:05.440 And even male and female distinctions. 00:15:06.379 --> 00:15:09.080 Who we are in Jesus is much more fundamental. 00:15:11.160 --> 00:15:12.300 It's not gender. 00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:14.759 Only faith makes you a full son. 00:15:15.800 --> 00:15:17.920 That theological status, heirs. 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:23.100 This is revolutionary stuff. 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:32.040 Our church, the church, I think we do pretty well at this. 00:15:33.180 --> 00:15:35.540 But we can always improve. 00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:42.379 We would be so much healthier if we saw each other through this, if we shared Paul's mind on this. 00:15:42.379 --> 00:15:46.139 There's no socioeconomic class. 00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:54.080 And if we cross those boundaries, there's no cool and uncool cliques. 00:15:54.279 --> 00:16:00.759 There's no, once you're married and have a kid, you finally join this club or something. 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:04.200 No, we're relating across those things. 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:05.820 There's no young and old. 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:08.580 There's no indigenous and Anglo-Saxon. 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.299 There's no wealthy or poor. 00:16:11.299 --> 00:16:16.379 If we thought like this, more and more. 00:16:16.599 --> 00:16:19.059 I think we do pretty well, but let's do it more and more. 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:26.699 Paul is more revolutionary than the feminism movements. 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:34.359 All women believers have the highest place in the cosmos. 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:37.079 This is revolutionary stuff. 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:47.820 Now, I've heard complementarians sideline this passage because the context isn't about women in ministry. 00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:50.700 Now, the context isn't about that. 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.020 It's about being sons in the family of God. 00:16:54.019 --> 00:17:11.779 But as we serve shoulder to shoulder as men and women, this spiritual truth should challenge and sweep away whatever cultural baggage we're bringing in, either privilege or prejudice against men or women. 00:17:11.779 --> 00:17:21.039 We should look at each other with spiritual eyes like Peter and Edmund and Susan and Lucy and Narnia. 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.279 Once a king or queen of Narnia. 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:25.579 Always a king or queen of Narnia. 00:17:26.019 --> 00:17:28.160 In a sense, we should look past gender. 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:31.519 Now, in another sense, we shouldn't. 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.779 But we are one in Christ. 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:38.259 So what is Paul's mind? 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.339 Men and women are one in Christ by faith alone. 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:43.119 Full sons, heirs. 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:48.940 All right. 00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:50.759 Well, that's one passage. 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:53.079 It's great stuff. 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:54.039 Let's go to 1 Corinthians. 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:55.819 1 Corinthians 11. 00:17:55.819 --> 00:18:06.119 So chapters 11 to 14 is all about the local church and ministering when the church is gathered together. 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:15.139 Now, chapter 11 talks about the necessity of head coverings for women when they pray or prophesy. 00:18:15.399 --> 00:18:16.980 So I'm just going to read two verses here. 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:18.879 Verses 4 and 5. 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:28.780 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head, which is talking about Christ. 00:18:29.540 --> 00:18:42.040 But every wife or woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head, which is usually the husband, 00:18:42.540 --> 00:18:45.480 since it is the same as if her head were shaven. 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:50.259 Now, these are some tricky verses. 00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:52.019 And I'm not even going to attempt. 00:18:52.120 --> 00:18:58.640 We don't have time this morning, I'm thankful for, to even attempt to unpack this whole segment. 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.240 We just don't have time for that. 00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:02.460 But it is a positive passage. 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.120 It's saying men are glorious. 00:19:04.299 --> 00:19:05.259 Women are glorious. 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:07.579 They're interdependent on one another. 00:19:07.860 --> 00:19:09.120 It's a positive passage. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:18.139 In the first century, failing to wear a head covering for a woman is a signal of rejecting male authority. 00:19:19.099 --> 00:19:21.059 That's not true in our culture today. 00:19:22.539 --> 00:19:27.599 A woman not wearing a head covering, we're not sending that signal. 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:39.879 But scriptural principles remain, even if they don't require the same cultural expression of head coverings. 00:19:41.639 --> 00:19:49.659 Just to step to the side to illustrate the point, when the New Testament talks about greet one another with a holy kiss. 00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:54.340 I'm not seeing enough kissing going on in this church. 00:19:57.500 --> 00:20:01.440 Now, we could just chop that out of our Bibles, functionally. 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:12.279 Or, in some cultures in the world, kissing on the cheek or maybe even on the lips might be appropriate expression of who we are in the church. 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:16.680 We need to find a cultural expression for who we are. 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:18.759 We're in Christ. 00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:19.799 We're brothers and sisters. 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.619 Joe Brown is wearing me down with his hugs. 00:20:23.879 --> 00:20:26.599 I'm not commanding hugs here. 00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:32.019 But we should be greeting one another in a way that's true of who we are. 00:20:35.019 --> 00:20:38.039 So, too, here with head coverings. 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:47.799 I think the principle, men and women should dress in a way that's culturally appropriate, that doesn't look like the opposite gender. 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.579 If we're in Scotland, maybe I would wear a kilt. 00:20:54.740 --> 00:20:55.700 Principle remains. 00:20:56.740 --> 00:21:04.339 Women should pray and prophesy in a manner that makes it clear they're humble and submissive to male leadership. 00:21:04.639 --> 00:21:05.659 The principle remains. 00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:07.940 Let's not chop it out of our Bibles. 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:20.480 So, zooming out on this passage, Paul is not prohibiting women praying and prophesying in church, in this kind of gathering. 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:23.440 He's endorsing it. 00:21:24.159 --> 00:21:25.420 He's encouraging it. 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.539 He's just saying, here's the proper way to do it. 00:21:28.539 --> 00:21:37.299 So, churches that prohibit women from speaking in the church gathering have gone way beyond Scripture. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:39.099 Way beyond Paul. 00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:51.639 So, why then does Paul say in chapter 14, the women should keep silent in the churches? 00:21:53.099 --> 00:21:59.359 Now, chapter 14, verse 34, I believe. 00:22:00.139 --> 00:22:00.699 Got that right? 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:03.119 Yep. 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:03.839 Great. 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.919 Now, everyone agrees. 00:22:07.459 --> 00:22:08.939 He can't be contradicting himself. 00:22:11.639 --> 00:22:16.720 If we look at the immediate context in verse 29, so chapter 14, verse 29. 00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:22.539 He's regulating how the church service should be ordered. 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:30.139 Let two or three prophets speak and let the others weigh what is said. 00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:38.079 The next few verses, he goes on to explain two or three prophets speaking. 00:22:38.259 --> 00:22:39.720 It should be an orderly way. 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:45.559 If one at a time, God is not a God of confusion but of order and peace. 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:52.279 So, it makes sense for after he addresses two or three, he then addresses how do you do the weighing? 00:22:53.440 --> 00:23:02.559 And that's where we get women should prophesy but the weighing of the prophecy, the women should be silent for. 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:11.159 The only other alternative is to say that back in chapter 11, the women aren't praying and prophesying in public. 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:18.220 But I think that's nonsense because the whole section is about the church gathering and what to do there. 00:23:20.899 --> 00:23:26.279 Now, even if you think prophecy has ceased today, like, leave aside that debate. 00:23:27.460 --> 00:23:28.720 Consider the role of women. 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:37.980 Like, Anna, like Anna in the temple, prophesying about Jesus as a baby and Philip's four daughters who are prophetesses. 00:23:39.339 --> 00:23:43.460 Prophecy is a revelation from God, a direct revelation from God. 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.160 It's not always predicting the future. 00:23:48.120 --> 00:23:51.720 It's anything that builds up the faith of the hearer. 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:59.440 Now, maybe it's a timely word of encouragement that just pierces right into that person's situation. 00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:04.240 Maybe it's declaring God's will in a certain situation. 00:24:05.259 --> 00:24:07.440 But notice, it is meant to be weighed. 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:09.120 It's meant to be evaluated. 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:18.420 It does not have, it's a direct revelation, but it does not have the authority of apostles or Old Testament prophets. 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:27.480 So what's the criteria to evaluate a revelation from God? 00:24:30.539 --> 00:24:34.100 Well, he goes on to talk about his apostolic authority. 00:24:34.100 --> 00:24:42.319 I think it's reasonable to conclude apostolic teaching is the criteria to weigh prophecy. 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:53.659 So teaching has more authority if it's in line with the apostles' teaching than prophecy does. 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:58.039 I cannot weigh apostolic teaching. 00:24:58.179 --> 00:24:59.919 I've got no right to sift it. 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:02.960 You have no right to sift. 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.939 You can sift what I'm saying, what's there. 00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:09.339 But we've got no right to sift what we've got. 00:25:10.139 --> 00:25:11.439 But prophecy, we need to. 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.320 It's going to be mixed. 00:25:13.779 --> 00:25:14.980 Some truth, some error. 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:19.759 So what is Paul's mind? 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:23.500 Again, he's revolutionary. 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:28.759 Greek and Jewish gatherings back then, women weren't even meant to be learning. 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:35.299 But Paul is encouraging women to prophesy and pray in the gathering. 00:25:35.299 --> 00:25:48.559 But only men and presumably elders would evaluate the quality of the prophecy according to apostolic teaching. 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:56.500 Now it's a lot to take in. 00:25:56.700 --> 00:25:58.399 We're going one more passage, okay? 00:25:58.659 --> 00:25:59.859 1 Timothy 2. 00:25:59.859 --> 00:26:08.379 So we are one. 00:26:08.379 --> 00:26:09.099 Paul's mind. 00:26:09.179 --> 00:26:11.159 We are one in Christ. 00:26:12.439 --> 00:26:13.719 Full heirs. 00:26:15.679 --> 00:26:17.740 Women speaking. 00:26:18.959 --> 00:26:22.599 Serving the church in appropriate ways in the gathering. 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:24.119 And then 1 Timothy 2. 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:35.039 There's so many attempts to make this passage not applicable today. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:40.240 They all fall into this category of that was then, but this is now. 00:26:41.299 --> 00:26:43.359 That's basically the thrust of the argument. 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:57.819 Often it appeals to Ephesus, where Timothy was, where they had the worship of the goddess Artemis, saying that women were overruling their husbands and domineering in their authority. 00:26:57.819 --> 00:27:08.119 Now, whatever is true or not of that picture, whatever is true or not, here's the important principle when we come to any passage. 00:27:08.299 --> 00:27:19.819 We've got to put more weight on what we find in the text than what we learn from socio-historical context that we learn outside the Bible. 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.619 We've got to put more weight on the data we've got in here. 00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:32.659 There's three reasons in the text that I think we should be taking this as universally applicable. 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.719 So flip over chapter 3, verses 14 and 15. 00:27:39.179 --> 00:27:41.599 1 Timothy 3, 14 and 15. 00:27:42.259 --> 00:27:44.559 Here's his purpose for writing this whole section. 00:27:44.559 --> 00:28:06.960 He's not talking about the workplace. 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:09.659 He's not talking about schools or clubs. 00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:14.600 These are instructions for the church, the household of God, how it should be ordered. 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:22.320 The second reason we should take these as universal is the start of chapter 2. 00:28:23.140 --> 00:28:30.840 Paul has a big vision for why he's giving these instructions. 00:28:31.560 --> 00:28:32.900 Chapter 2, verse 2. 00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:39.400 So that we live peaceful, godly, dignified lives. 00:28:40.320 --> 00:28:42.800 God wants all people to be saved. 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.480 There's only one mediator, Christ Jesus. 00:28:47.740 --> 00:28:51.040 So these instructions to men and women that he goes on to talk about, 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:58.940 it's part of his broad vision of living dignified lives for the sake of the mission of the church. 00:28:58.940 --> 00:29:01.080 That's his goal. 00:29:02.180 --> 00:29:03.880 And that's true in all times. 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:13.420 The third reason we should take this as applicable today is the reasons he gives the restriction on women in verses 13 and 14. 00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:18.519 In verse 13, for Adam was formed first, then Eve. 00:29:19.100 --> 00:29:20.880 We've got the order of creation. 00:29:22.620 --> 00:29:27.940 Then verse 14, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 00:29:27.940 --> 00:29:30.960 We've got the reversal of that order in the fall. 00:29:33.120 --> 00:29:42.019 He could not have picked a more universally applicable time than creation and fall. 00:29:46.539 --> 00:29:49.039 Okay, so quickly working through these verses then. 00:29:51.220 --> 00:29:52.740 Verse 11. 00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.440 I've already said this, but women weren't allowed to learn. 00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:02.019 Sorry, in Jewish and Greek schools. 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:05.940 But here, women are to learn all doctrine. 00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.039 It's the manner of their learning. 00:30:09.620 --> 00:30:11.600 It's a respectful attitude. 00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:18.160 And in the context, I think it's a respectful attitude to the appointed church leaders. 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:25.279 Then we've got verse 12, which is the heart of the prohibition. 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.720 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. 00:30:30.600 --> 00:30:32.340 Rather, she is to remain quiet. 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:38.299 Now, remember, the context is the gathered church. 00:30:38.379 --> 00:30:39.720 How do we order the church? 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:46.019 I don't think it's just restricting wives because their husbands are present. 00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:50.519 The previous verses are all about men and women, generally. 00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:56.599 To not teach isn't any and all kinds of teaching. 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.480 Titus talks about older women teach the younger women. 00:31:00.639 --> 00:31:01.480 They need you to. 00:31:02.779 --> 00:31:04.139 It can't be all teaching. 00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:13.779 Given this section goes straight in chapter 3 into the qualification for elders. 00:31:13.779 --> 00:31:25.859 I think this is saying that women aren't to occupy the church-recognized public teaching authority over men. 00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:32.859 It is male elders who are to give authoritative doctrinal instruction. 00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:36.899 Then we've got exercising authority. 00:31:37.700 --> 00:31:39.039 Now, that's a different verb. 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:42.259 But it's a rare one. 00:31:42.259 --> 00:31:46.299 And there's so much debate over this. 00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:52.079 Now, it only occurs seven times in ancient literature, apparently. 00:31:52.619 --> 00:31:56.240 Now, some argue that the word means domineer, abuse authority. 00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:04.240 By the end of the second century, it just had the mutual meaning, having authority. 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:16.380 But why would Paul restrict all women if only a few were being ungodly? 00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:20.900 That sounds sexist. 00:32:20.900 --> 00:32:30.180 When Paul doesn't want someone to do something, if domineering is wrong, he wants men and women not to domineer. 00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:41.500 I think it's better, given the context, that it's legitimate authority over the church. 00:32:41.500 --> 00:32:48.640 Because part of the elder qualifications is managing their own household and able to teach. 00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:52.200 So that they're able to manage the household of God. 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:56.200 And across the New Testament is through teaching. 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:07.600 Now, I've tried many times to get people to wash my car and get me coffees and things. 00:33:07.700 --> 00:33:10.279 But you guys just don't submit to my authority. 00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:16.700 An elder's authority isn't jump and you say, how high, David. 00:33:17.639 --> 00:33:23.160 My governing, our governing, is exercise through teaching. 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:26.680 So, yes, there's two verbs here. 00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:35.200 But I think even governing is in as much as it's through true teaching. 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:41.900 Our decisions as elders is meant to be applying biblical teaching to a situation. 00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:51.319 Our pastoral conversations is trying to apply biblical teachings to a person's situation. 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:04.759 So, we come to the reasons given in verses 13 and 14. 00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:08.639 That men should teach and have authority over the church. 00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:11.599 Or male elders qualified. 00:34:12.740 --> 00:34:13.460 Verse 14. 00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:15.179 The order of creation. 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:17.780 Adam was formed first, then Eve. 00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:22.360 Now, pigs were made before Adam and Eve. 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:26.300 That does not mean pigs are in authority over us. 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.500 It's not just the sequence. 00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:33.860 As we saw in Genesis 2. 00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:40.219 Eve being made after Adam was to be a helper for him. 00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:44.400 Providing the power that he lacks. 00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:52.679 He was responsible for the human family and he was held responsible for the human family. 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:56.139 So, there's the order of creation. 00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:58.839 She was a helper fit for him. 00:34:58.940 --> 00:35:01.279 Bringing the power that he lacks. 00:35:03.579 --> 00:35:08.819 The second reason is the reversal of that order in the fall. 00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:11.039 So, verse 13. 00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:14.059 Is it 13? 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:15.519 No, 14. 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:20.619 Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 00:35:21.340 --> 00:35:27.519 Eve being deceived, I don't think it's saying women are more gullible or more emotional or... 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:29.639 I think that's rubbish. 00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:36.219 Men and women can equally be deceived away from Christ. 00:35:36.219 --> 00:35:42.419 Eve and Adam sinned differently, though. 00:35:43.939 --> 00:35:48.039 I think it's saying Eve and Adam sinned differently. 00:35:49.619 --> 00:36:00.599 Eve was deceived and didn't submit to Adam and transgressed. 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.299 Adam wasn't deceived. 00:36:03.439 --> 00:36:04.399 He was passive. 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.420 Eve stood by. 00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:08.160 He didn't lead. 00:36:08.780 --> 00:36:09.700 He didn't teach. 00:36:11.420 --> 00:36:13.700 And he knowingly transgressed. 00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:18.059 It was the subversion of the order. 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:28.220 The man not taking the spiritual responsibility and the woman not coming under that, embracing that. 00:36:29.539 --> 00:36:31.220 Finding protection in that. 00:36:31.219 --> 00:36:34.399 It was reversing the order that led to the fall. 00:36:36.439 --> 00:36:42.299 It's not good for men or women if we go against God's good design. 00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:49.480 Then we've got verse 15, if that wasn't hard enough. 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:59.719 Now, I want to address this because it's probably in your mind. 00:36:59.780 --> 00:37:00.780 It's probably a trip point. 00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:05.079 But yet she will be saved through childbearing. 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:05.820 Singular. 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:06.360 She. 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:08.380 If they, plural. 00:37:08.380 --> 00:37:08.400 If they, plural. 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.640 Continue in faith and love and holiness and self-control. 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:14.480 It seems to be this balancing. 00:37:14.940 --> 00:37:15.059 Okay. 00:37:15.160 --> 00:37:20.120 It's just men who should be looking after the church in that eldership position. 00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:25.799 Don't fall into the fall situation where we subvert that order. 00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:27.559 And then it's balancing. 00:37:28.059 --> 00:37:29.119 But women. 00:37:29.319 --> 00:37:32.859 Look at the high value of women is what this verse is doing. 00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:38.299 Now, it can't be saying that you need to have a baby to be saved. 00:37:38.339 --> 00:37:40.239 That would go against the entire New Testament. 00:37:41.019 --> 00:37:45.239 It can't be saying it's salvation by works. 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.979 It can't be guaranteeing safety in childbirth. 00:37:48.099 --> 00:37:49.459 Many godly women have died. 00:37:52.279 --> 00:37:53.719 There's two main options. 00:37:53.939 --> 00:38:01.719 Either childbearing is just a general way of saying faithfully living as a woman with the roles God has given. 00:38:01.919 --> 00:38:04.259 Maybe it's that. 00:38:05.739 --> 00:38:09.659 Or the second option is that Paul is still in Genesis 3. 00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.299 And he's thinking of the first promise of a saviour. 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.759 Where it's the woman's seed who will crush the head of the serpent. 00:38:24.839 --> 00:38:27.059 I'm leaning towards that one personally. 00:38:28.219 --> 00:38:30.119 I like what John Stott says about it. 00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:33.399 We must never forget what we owe to a woman. 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:43.059 No greater honour has ever been given to a woman than in the calling of Mary to be the mother of the saviour of the world. 00:38:43.059 --> 00:38:53.199 We all owe our salvation through Jesus in the high place given to Mary. 00:38:53.199 --> 00:39:02.000 I think this one really elevates motherhood. 00:39:02.299 --> 00:39:09.839 When our culture says I'm only a mother and there's some embarrassment over that, that's a problem with our culture. 00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:17.740 That the saviour came through women. 00:39:18.640 --> 00:39:21.100 Elevates motherhood as God's high calling. 00:39:22.140 --> 00:39:27.700 So either of those interpretations I think are legitimate. 00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:33.140 But I slightly lean towards the saviour came through a woman. 00:39:33.139 --> 00:39:37.639 Okay, so what's Paul's mind then? 00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:53.099 Well he confronts our society's thinking that equality of importance and equality of significance is bound up in status and the right to be in charge. 00:39:53.099 --> 00:40:05.880 His mind is that just like in Christian marriages, when godly male elders bear that buck stops with them responsibility and serve the church like a slave. 00:40:08.019 --> 00:40:10.119 The family of God can thrive. 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.400 Because of God's good design. 00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:29.820 Why does Paul say these radically social transforming and strong conservative statements? 00:40:30.860 --> 00:40:32.079 Let's try and bring this together. 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:45.059 Now one attempt to resolve this tension are the endless, complicated, convoluted debates pulling apart every word. 00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:49.340 That was then, this is now arguments. 00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:58.980 Those arguments, they're implicitly charging Paul as not being courageous enough to apply the gospel to his culture fully. 00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:06.099 Or it's charging him with a blind spot that we know better than Paul. 00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:10.539 We shouldn't imitate him as he imitates Christ in this regard. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:14.199 I reckon there's a much better explanation. 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:20.260 That we live in the overlap of the ages. 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:27.219 Since creation, God's good design, and the new creation has already come in. 00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:34.199 Paul's eschatology makes more sense of the data. 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:42.699 Christ restores the created order, while at the same time ushering in a new created order. 00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:54.320 We live in the times of the outpouring of the Spirit on men and women alike. 00:41:54.320 --> 00:42:00.620 I think that makes much more sense of all that Paul has to say. 00:42:03.620 --> 00:42:07.120 So how do we disagree well? 00:42:08.740 --> 00:42:11.760 I'm assuming there's disagreement in this room right now. 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:16.280 How do we disagree well with other believers and other churches? 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:31.260 If we embrace Paul's mind that we live in the overlap of the ages, Christ restores the original design and yet ushers in a new creation. 00:42:32.540 --> 00:42:42.100 It's helped me to respect those on either side I disagree with. 00:42:42.099 --> 00:42:47.099 Egalitarians who say all distinctions are gone. 00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:50.940 Women can be elders, church leaders, preach and so on. 00:42:51.940 --> 00:42:54.019 I can wholeheartedly agree with them. 00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:55.739 We are sons of God. 00:42:55.739 --> 00:43:01.099 The age of the outpouring of the Spirit is here. 00:43:01.419 --> 00:43:02.219 All flesh. 00:43:03.019 --> 00:43:03.579 All men. 00:43:03.699 --> 00:43:04.159 All women. 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:06.899 I can respect them for that. 00:43:07.399 --> 00:43:08.739 I can see where they're coming from. 00:43:09.739 --> 00:43:14.019 Even while disagreeing that we're still in this created order. 00:43:14.019 --> 00:43:23.460 The patriarchal position that says women shouldn't even write books or give podcasts on theology. 00:43:24.500 --> 00:43:27.239 Often it shouldn't be involved in church gatherings. 00:43:29.300 --> 00:43:36.960 I can respect that they are trying to make families and churches flourish by embracing God's good design. 00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:42.840 Even while I disagree, we're in the age of the Spirit. 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.159 We're all full sons of God. 00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:49.280 I think it helps us respect one another. 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:58.580 I think it also makes sense of why we struggle to agree on how to apply all this. 00:43:59.260 --> 00:44:00.700 Of course it's complicated. 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:04.500 If we're living in this tension of now and not yet, 00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:11.280 it's not really surprising that we all come to slightly different convictions on this. 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:17.160 I think we need to have Paul's mind. 00:44:19.660 --> 00:44:26.920 Let's put down the war banners that we've got in the church over this issue. 00:44:27.260 --> 00:44:32.880 We're hating and being hated by one another when we've got so much more in common. 00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:38.940 In Christ, there's no Jew or Greek. 00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:41.320 There's no slave or free. 00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:47.440 There's no patriarchy, egalitarian and complementarian. 00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:50.780 Imagine if we saw each other like that. 00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:56.519 We are one in Christ. 00:45:00.539 --> 00:45:02.480 But we need to recognize churches. 00:45:02.900 --> 00:45:06.400 I would encourage all of us to have convictions based off Scripture. 00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:09.700 We need to wrestle with what Scripture says. 00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:12.220 And churches, we need to have a position. 00:45:13.579 --> 00:45:14.579 All churches do. 00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.039 Now, if you're struggling through this series, 00:45:20.240 --> 00:45:22.360 disagreeing with a lot of what I'm saying, 00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:25.980 thank you for staying with me so far. 00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:30.119 But the elders want to keep this secondary. 00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:34.480 We believe this is good enough to preach on, obviously, 00:45:35.179 --> 00:45:36.300 and it's for our good. 00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:37.800 But we want to keep this secondary. 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:42.460 If you can respect the church's position and why we hold it, 00:45:43.659 --> 00:45:44.360 we want... 00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:45.480 That's fine. 00:45:45.579 --> 00:45:47.179 Become association members. 00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:49.860 Get involved in formal ministries. 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:52.920 You'll be fine in teaching capacities even. 00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:55.000 We want to keep this secondary. 00:45:59.380 --> 00:46:02.280 Can I encourage us to honor each other's conscience 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.599 before God on this? 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:09.139 If a woman turns down an invitation to speak at youth 00:46:09.139 --> 00:46:13.099 because she's convicted that there's male youth there, 00:46:13.200 --> 00:46:17.519 or if a woman gets up and is wearing a head covering, 00:46:18.240 --> 00:46:20.800 gets up here to say something to the church, 00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:23.960 let's honor and applaud 00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:28.120 when people are acting according to their conscience 00:46:28.120 --> 00:46:29.039 before the Lord. 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:32.960 Or if you see a woman doing something 00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:35.560 that your own conscience would be violated by, 00:46:35.660 --> 00:46:37.920 but the church says, no, this is our position, 00:46:38.720 --> 00:46:41.100 pray for them, honor them, encourage them, 00:46:41.220 --> 00:46:43.800 go for it, preach Christ, teach Christ, 00:46:43.940 --> 00:46:45.280 teach the youth about Christ. 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:49.720 Pray with all your might and bring glory to Jesus. 00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.359 Let's honor each other's conscience in this. 00:46:53.819 --> 00:46:55.579 We can try and persuade each other, 00:46:56.779 --> 00:46:58.819 but let's honor each other's conscience. 00:47:04.359 --> 00:47:06.699 Now, I don't think we're left to our own wisdom 00:47:06.699 --> 00:47:08.079 to decide the specifics. 00:47:08.859 --> 00:47:11.079 I want to leave us with just some principles. 00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:20.500 Firstly, only qualified men should be elders and teachers. 00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:29.219 We elders will be held to a much higher account 00:47:29.219 --> 00:47:31.559 when we get to the judgment seat. 00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:39.199 I feel sick sometimes, often. 00:47:40.659 --> 00:47:43.139 I have a position of influence here. 00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:45.840 I will be held to much higher account. 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:51.579 The New Testament charge as elders to bear the responsibility 00:47:51.579 --> 00:47:54.180 for what is taught in the church, 00:47:55.720 --> 00:47:56.780 refuting error, 00:47:58.579 --> 00:48:02.240 shepherding the church individually and as a collective 00:48:02.240 --> 00:48:04.660 to make sure that we're living according 00:48:04.660 --> 00:48:07.340 to true doctrine as well. 00:48:07.340 --> 00:48:12.300 So I think only men should preach. 00:48:13.300 --> 00:48:16.120 Now, I can respect others who come to different convictions 00:48:16.120 --> 00:48:18.620 that as long as it's under male leadership, 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:20.019 women can preach. 00:48:20.100 --> 00:48:21.579 I can respect where you're coming from. 00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:27.740 But the eldership here, 00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:30.920 we think only men should bear that responsibility 00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:35.820 because the sermon is the church-recognized time 00:48:35.820 --> 00:48:38.039 that we're sitting under the word of God 00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:39.599 in an authoritative sense. 00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:41.480 You've got to check what I'm saying is right, 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.340 but it's a different time in the service, isn't it? 00:48:49.659 --> 00:48:51.079 Like in Christian households, 00:48:51.240 --> 00:48:53.800 when godly men lead as slaves, 00:48:54.980 --> 00:48:56.800 protecting the family of God, 00:48:57.139 --> 00:48:59.940 it enables the whole church to serve. 00:48:59.940 --> 00:49:02.000 We want to be every person ministry. 00:49:06.099 --> 00:49:07.460 A second principle, 00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:10.300 women are spirit-filled. 00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.099 I like a phrase by an egalitarian, 00:49:16.599 --> 00:49:19.059 spiritual gifts don't come in blue and pink. 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:22.679 Women are spirit-filled. 00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.400 The church needs women ministering in word and deed 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:29.679 if we're going to flourish as a church. 00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:35.079 They're indispensable for our life. 00:49:36.700 --> 00:49:38.920 Let's not have a fearful attitude. 00:49:39.260 --> 00:49:41.220 If we're in doubt, then we don't do it. 00:49:41.780 --> 00:49:43.820 No, let's think about it. 00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:48.420 Let's give careful thought to particular situations. 00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:52.059 Let's train women to teach and preach 00:49:52.059 --> 00:49:54.440 as they've got appropriate opportunities. 00:49:56.860 --> 00:50:00.480 Let's send women into vocational ministry. 00:50:01.579 --> 00:50:03.960 Our church has been so blessed 00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:07.019 by appointing chairs onto the star. 00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:13.320 Ephesians calls all of us to speak the truth in love. 00:50:13.460 --> 00:50:14.259 Hebrews says, 00:50:14.759 --> 00:50:16.400 exhort one another every day. 00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:18.119 Now, that is not gender-specific. 00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:20.940 We need men in the room. 00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:24.340 We need to listen to the women teaching us 00:50:24.340 --> 00:50:25.300 into our lives. 00:50:25.300 --> 00:50:32.400 We need women for the church to flourish, 00:50:32.600 --> 00:50:36.580 to be exercising their gifts in speaking roles. 00:50:36.579 --> 00:50:42.199 I think a third principle here is, 00:50:43.340 --> 00:50:45.920 let's be careful what we mean by certain titles. 00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:51.619 We call, like, fresh and youth volunteers leaders. 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:53.739 Now, is that governing? 00:50:54.860 --> 00:50:55.900 Exercising authority? 00:50:55.900 --> 00:50:57.840 Because we use the term leaders. 00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:01.059 Or in a mixed small group, 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:04.519 we call the assistant to the small group leader 00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:06.240 second in command. 00:51:07.660 --> 00:51:08.880 Oh, they've got command. 00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:13.180 Let's not be, let's be careful with our titles. 00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:18.320 The context of 1 Timothy 2, as I've tried to show, 00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:19.599 I think it's about eldership. 00:51:20.860 --> 00:51:22.840 Let's not get fussed 00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:27.059 over titles that we've come up with 00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:32.000 that aren't trying to exercise this kind of authority. 00:51:34.600 --> 00:51:36.579 If the ladies... 00:51:36.579 --> 00:51:37.519 Oh, no, I won't say that. 00:51:37.579 --> 00:51:38.260 It's not in my script. 00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:39.660 It's a bad idea. 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:45.420 All I'll say about female deacons 00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:49.180 is that where the elders are up to 00:51:49.179 --> 00:51:53.659 is we need to do more work as elders and as a church 00:51:53.659 --> 00:51:56.019 to carefully define the role of deacon. 00:51:57.639 --> 00:51:59.179 And we need to decide... 00:51:59.859 --> 00:52:00.899 We'll come to this question. 00:52:01.879 --> 00:52:04.179 Does a deacon have governing authority 00:52:04.179 --> 00:52:05.679 like an elder or not? 00:52:07.139 --> 00:52:09.399 So I'm just going to give you that question to think on. 00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:15.940 Not all teaching comes with the authority 00:52:15.940 --> 00:52:17.720 that elders are called to exercise. 00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:20.460 When a woman gets up to pray, 00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:23.159 that's a big responsibility. 00:52:24.059 --> 00:52:25.760 They're saying things about God. 00:52:26.059 --> 00:52:28.340 They're saying things about God's will for us. 00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.360 There's teaching in that sense in a prayer. 00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:37.659 If there's a Christian woman 00:52:37.659 --> 00:52:39.440 who's an expert in some area, 00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:40.980 like if we got Megan Best 00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:43.840 to come talk about the Bible and ethics, 00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:46.980 wonderful, let's learn from her. 00:52:48.160 --> 00:52:50.059 If a woman in a small group 00:52:50.059 --> 00:52:52.500 makes a comment, a truth claim, 00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.160 of course, if it's true, 00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:57.180 men, we should be submitting to it. 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:04.780 So not all teaching 00:53:04.780 --> 00:53:09.220 comes with the same authority 00:53:09.220 --> 00:53:11.640 that elders are called to have. 00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:14.019 And let's be careful about titles. 00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:15.960 And lastly, 00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:19.239 we need to be consistent. 00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:21.920 As husbands are called 00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:23.940 to be the spiritual leaders in the family, 00:53:24.779 --> 00:53:26.699 let's not create a conflict 00:53:26.699 --> 00:53:27.980 of loyalties there 00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:29.639 in the church. 00:53:32.019 --> 00:53:33.339 As husbands are called 00:53:33.339 --> 00:53:34.519 to be spiritual leaders, 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:38.059 there should be that spiritual leadership 00:53:38.059 --> 00:53:39.359 in the church as well. 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:42.920 Now, I know that's probably 00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:44.340 not getting to the specifics 00:53:44.340 --> 00:53:45.780 as much as you'd want me to, 00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:47.519 but that's as far as I'm willing 00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:48.320 to go at the moment 00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:49.579 in terms of guiding us. 00:53:54.680 --> 00:53:55.079 Well, 00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:58.200 in our culture, 00:53:58.460 --> 00:53:58.920 there is 00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:02.579 so much angst, 00:54:03.380 --> 00:54:03.820 isn't there? 00:54:03.860 --> 00:54:04.360 There's so much blame, 00:54:05.680 --> 00:54:06.820 there's so much rivalry 00:54:06.820 --> 00:54:08.200 amongst men and women. 00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:11.720 As the family of God, 00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:13.180 we're called to stand out. 00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:16.000 We're called to be 00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:16.640 a city 00:54:16.640 --> 00:54:18.039 on a hill. 00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:19.940 We're called to be this 00:54:19.940 --> 00:54:22.720 attractive, 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:25.519 different community 00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:26.559 that people come into 00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:26.960 and go, 00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.460 what's driving these people? 00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:31.440 What's going on? 00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:36.480 To do that, 00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:37.500 we need to share 00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:38.679 the mind of Paul. 00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:41.679 That Christ 00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:43.079 redeems creation, 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:44.059 the created order, 00:54:44.179 --> 00:54:45.019 and he's ushering 00:54:45.019 --> 00:54:46.000 in the new creation. 00:54:46.099 --> 00:54:47.260 That we're rejoicing, 00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:48.800 both in the fact 00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:49.700 of God's good 00:54:49.700 --> 00:54:50.579 original design, 00:54:51.340 --> 00:54:52.480 and that we see 00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:52.960 each other 00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:53.740 and we treat 00:54:53.740 --> 00:54:54.280 each other 00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:56.260 as heirs 00:54:56.260 --> 00:54:57.460 filled with the Spirit 00:54:57.460 --> 00:54:58.400 and we need 00:54:58.400 --> 00:54:59.099 men and women 00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:00.440 using their gifts 00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:01.159 in the church. 00:55:03.659 --> 00:55:05.740 If people can see 00:55:05.740 --> 00:55:06.840 in the family of God, 00:55:06.900 --> 00:55:07.679 in this family, 00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:10.039 that women, 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:11.639 you don't feel restricted, 00:55:12.099 --> 00:55:13.579 but you feel cared for 00:55:13.579 --> 00:55:14.619 and encouraged 00:55:14.619 --> 00:55:15.980 to serve 00:55:15.980 --> 00:55:17.260 under male authority, 00:55:18.200 --> 00:55:19.440 shoulder to shoulder 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:20.000 for the sake 00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:20.559 of the gospel, 00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:21.720 that's going to be 00:55:21.720 --> 00:55:22.360 a community, 00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:22.860 it's going to be 00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:23.519 a household 00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:25.139 that is just unnatural. 00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:26.700 You will not find 00:55:26.700 --> 00:55:27.500 that in the world. 00:55:27.500 --> 00:55:29.980 It is supernatural. 00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:30.860 It is. 00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:32.800 Because it only comes, 00:55:33.019 --> 00:55:34.699 it can only possibly 00:55:34.699 --> 00:55:36.019 be created 00:55:36.019 --> 00:55:37.460 and maintained 00:55:37.460 --> 00:55:38.099 by Jesus. 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:46.320 Well, 00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:46.960 will you pray? 00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:48.579 I know it's an abrupt ending, 00:55:48.780 --> 00:55:49.300 but let's pray. 00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:54.900 Father, 00:55:55.160 --> 00:55:55.860 make us 00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:56.240 that 00:55:56.240 --> 00:55:57.760 winsome 00:55:57.760 --> 00:55:58.980 household 00:55:58.980 --> 00:55:59.600 of God 00:55:59.600 --> 00:56:01.019 so that we 00:56:01.019 --> 00:56:01.820 please you 00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:03.880 and so that we 00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:05.039 are a light 00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:06.760 to our world 00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:07.380 that is so 00:56:07.380 --> 00:56:08.140 confused 00:56:08.140 --> 00:56:08.820 and lost 00:56:08.820 --> 00:56:09.680 and most of all 00:56:09.680 --> 00:56:10.700 don't have Christ. 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:12.980 Give us 00:56:12.980 --> 00:56:13.660 every grace 00:56:13.660 --> 00:56:14.080 in this. 00:56:14.220 --> 00:56:14.800 In Jesus' name. 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:15.260 Amen.