WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:15.220 Okay, let me pray and we'll start that way. Let's pray. Father, we thank you for just this chance to pause and think about how we understand the Bible and how we know that what we're understanding is what you're saying. 00:00:15.220 --> 00:00:36.480 And we want to pray for your help in that we want to acknowledge that we spend all of our time and live all of our days in your presence, but that as we gather as your people together, as we seek to open the Bible together, that you are present with us and that you are concerned for us that we understand rightly. 00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:42.759 So please bless our time together. Help me, help all of us, we ask in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:53.320 So these Sunday evenings are sort of like partway between a sort of sermon, a lecture, a seminar, right? So if you were hoping for a sermon, you'll be disappointed. 00:00:53.579 --> 00:00:58.739 If you were hoping for a lecture, you'll also be disappointed. If you were hoping for a seminar, you were likewise to be disappointed. 00:00:58.879 --> 00:01:03.359 So if you were just hoping for pictures on the handout, you would also be disappointed. 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:11.120 But just to kind of get us thinking and get us in the zone of what I'm going to talk about, I want you to ask with the person next to you, have you ever heard the statement, 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.820 well, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say. 00:01:15.740 --> 00:01:21.820 Who said it? Not necessarily, oh, it was, you know, Graham or something, but like, who said it? 00:01:21.859 --> 00:01:26.160 As in, it was someone who wasn't a Christian, it was someone who was a Christian, it was someone who was on the TV or whatever. 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:29.620 And why did they say it? And how did you reply? Okay? 00:01:30.740 --> 00:01:34.120 Don't spend like super long on this, but have a go at that just for a couple of minutes. 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:41.480 Okay. Does anyone want to tell us? 00:01:43.060 --> 00:01:45.900 You can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say. 00:01:48.460 --> 00:01:50.480 Anyone? No one's ever heard that before, so. 00:01:51.140 --> 00:01:53.520 Yeah? Maybe, what are we doing here? Yes, go on, Ray. 00:01:53.740 --> 00:01:56.159 You've said it. Okay, when did you say it? 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:01.579 If you take just a sentence from the Bible, you can actually probably say anything. 00:02:02.099 --> 00:02:03.099 Okay, yes. 00:02:04.259 --> 00:02:09.280 So, it is theoretically possible to make the Bible say whatever you want it to say, 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:12.400 but only by acting in an irresponsible way with it. 00:02:12.819 --> 00:02:13.599 Right, yeah. 00:02:14.419 --> 00:02:14.740 Okay. 00:02:15.419 --> 00:02:16.259 Anybody else? 00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:16.879 Jeff? 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:24.340 Right. 00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:25.580 Yes. 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:29.659 And what are they, you know, why are they saying it? 00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:33.199 What is it they're trying to achieve by saying it, do you think? 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.520 Right, just trying to ignore what it says. 00:02:38.860 --> 00:02:40.879 What do you tend to say in response? 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:44.560 Yeah. 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:52.180 Okay, yeah, read it. 00:02:52.500 --> 00:02:54.280 Yeah, that is a good response, yeah. 00:02:55.060 --> 00:02:55.280 Yeah. 00:02:57.200 --> 00:02:57.900 Anybody else? 00:02:59.259 --> 00:03:05.099 There is a sense in which we can impose our interpretation. 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:06.400 Right. 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:11.560 Yes, there is a sense, and I suppose that's what Ray was picking up on as well. 00:03:11.659 --> 00:03:16.159 There is a sense that we can impose an interpretation, a wrong interpretation on the Bible, 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.219 and force it to say something. 00:03:18.219 --> 00:03:18.539 Yeah. 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:18.599 Yeah. 00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:19.780 Yeah. 00:03:19.780 --> 00:03:25.960 I think it's particularly set around some controversial aspects in church life, isn't it? 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:30.580 So particularly stuff on sex and sexuality, gender, those kind of things, 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:34.280 or roles of men and women in church life. 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.120 Well, you can make any argument for anything. 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.800 Sometimes people mislead by over-contextualizing. 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:41.520 Right. 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:46.780 So, like, for example, when they say, if you're arguing against occult practices, they'll say, 00:03:46.780 --> 00:03:49.340 oh, yes, but this was in the context of idolatry. 00:03:49.659 --> 00:03:50.039 Yes. 00:03:50.099 --> 00:03:55.580 So they bring up, and the same thing they do with, uh, practices to, uh, homosexuality. 00:03:56.099 --> 00:03:56.420 Yes. 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:59.560 Oh, yeah, that's because it was involved in some ritual. 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:00.120 Yeah. 00:04:00.500 --> 00:04:03.920 So that's taking over-contextualizing. 00:04:04.099 --> 00:04:04.420 Yes. 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:08.140 So one of the means that people use to make the Bible say whatever they wanted to say 00:04:08.140 --> 00:04:14.319 is by over-contextualizing it, by kind of tying it to its, uh, to a particular understanding 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:15.599 of the context that it was given in. 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:16.100 Okay. 00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:20.060 Well, that was just to really get your juices flowing and to make you start to think about 00:04:20.060 --> 00:04:21.920 some of the things that we're going to discuss this evening. 00:04:22.060 --> 00:04:26.740 But really what we're trying to do is carry on this series of thinking about how there are 00:04:26.740 --> 00:04:32.560 many old answers to some of our new questions and seeing particularly how, um, the Baptist 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:36.960 Confession of Faith, so 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith addresses lots of the things that 00:04:36.960 --> 00:04:38.579 we are coming up against today. 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.960 So there are three confessions, yeah, we were looking at, it's the Westminster Confession, 00:04:43.660 --> 00:04:48.879 the Savoy Declaration, and the Baptist Confession of Faith, which are all very similar, but, uh, 00:04:49.340 --> 00:04:50.680 vary on church governance. 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:53.160 And we are looking particularly at what it says about the Bible. 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:58.580 And what I'm trying to do is show you that, and reassure you, if I can, that there's nothing 00:04:58.580 --> 00:05:03.980 new under the sun, that most of what we face, much of what we ask, much of what worries us 00:05:03.980 --> 00:05:06.640 and concerns us has been faced in the past one way or another. 00:05:07.260 --> 00:05:12.180 Now, to get to the 1689 answer to the question, you have to kind of just, like, lift the helicopter 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:16.240 up a bit and zoom out, uh, and start just thinking a bit differently, okay? 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:21.820 Let me try and explain the context in which the 1689 Baptist Confession comes, all the 00:05:21.819 --> 00:05:22.540 confessions come. 00:05:23.719 --> 00:05:28.620 So in the medieval church, the pre-Reformation church, there is a lot of concern for having 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:31.459 an authoritative interpretation of the Bible. 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.540 The thinking goes something like this, you know, scripture obviously needs to be interpreted. 00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:41.139 You know, you open a Bible, and it's obvious that it is an ancient text, is written by people 00:05:41.139 --> 00:05:46.839 who are different from us, different from the readers, uh, in medieval times as well. 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.519 And they are in different situations to us. 00:05:49.599 --> 00:05:54.759 And so you cannot just draw a straight line from those words in the Bible into your life. 00:05:54.979 --> 00:05:59.859 You're not Timothy, you're not Titus, you're let alone not Abraham or Isaac or Moses. 00:06:00.019 --> 00:06:02.359 So scripture needs explaining. 00:06:02.799 --> 00:06:03.839 It needs interpreting. 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:09.179 It needs work done with the scriptures to hear the message in our own lives. 00:06:09.180 --> 00:06:16.500 And that interpretation was, it was so thought, cannot be provided by anything other than some 00:06:16.500 --> 00:06:19.560 sort of authoritative body outside of the scriptures. 00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:26.899 The church, the magisterium, as it was called, which is the bishops along with the Pope. 00:06:26.899 --> 00:06:32.679 So they thought that they were the right people to provide a correct interpretation of the Bible 00:06:32.679 --> 00:06:35.359 and exclude all other misunderstandings. 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:39.879 So basically what you, what you did is you said, this is what this, this is what this means. 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:44.279 And if you disagree with this, out, right, get out of the church. 00:06:44.599 --> 00:06:50.060 And then you end up with one church that teaches one thing and holds on to the explanation for itself. 00:06:50.919 --> 00:06:56.239 Now, this is an important and serious task that the church takes on itself, isn't it? 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.420 It's not like just the arrangement of the cups on the coffee counter. 00:06:59.540 --> 00:07:05.319 This is serious and important because if you, if you allowed somebody other than the magisterium, 00:07:05.420 --> 00:07:08.879 the bishops and the Pope to take on that role, then it would be chaos. 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:14.060 Bavinck, he, yeah, anyway, I'm not going to explain who Bavinck is. 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:16.199 We talked about him last week, but he explains it like this. 00:07:16.819 --> 00:07:22.319 He says the, the absence of such a judge, as in someone to explain what the Bible means, 00:07:22.780 --> 00:07:25.220 every interpretation becomes completely subjective. 00:07:25.220 --> 00:07:31.700 Everyone judges its own pleasure and considers his own individual opinion infallible. 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:35.000 Every heretic has his own favorite letter. 00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:41.520 Now, the Roman Catholic Church so committed to this need to interpret the Bible, 00:07:41.980 --> 00:07:47.680 it decided that it didn't actually matter whether people understood the words of the Bible in the pew. 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:49.720 So they would continue in Latin. 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:57.079 And so they would exclude people from interpreting the Bible because they would exclude them from even understanding the words that were being said. 00:07:58.060 --> 00:08:04.800 And in fact, it wasn't really until the 1960s that the mass was permitted to be read in English and not in Latin. 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:11.759 Now, in contrast to that, the confession reads, as does the Westminster Confession, 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.379 some things, chapter one, paragraph seven, 00:08:14.379 --> 00:08:18.519 some things in scripture are clearer than others. 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:23.139 And some people understand the teachings more clearly than others. 00:08:23.659 --> 00:08:35.120 However, the things that must be known, believed and obeyed for salvation are so clearly set forth and explained in one part of scripture or another, 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:46.120 that both the educated and uneducated may achieve a sufficient understanding of them by properly using ordinary measures. 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:54.840 Now, I said last week, and Vanessa picked up on this, that this doesn't terrify me because these are the sorts of things that I read quite a lot. 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:58.860 But for the rest of you, this is my, ah, right, this is not how we speak normally, is it? 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:08.000 But I want you, with the person next to you, to think how that might disagree with what I've just explained to be the position of the Roman Catholic Church at the time. 00:09:08.340 --> 00:09:10.120 What are they claiming for the Bible? 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:13.639 What are they claiming for the Bible in the confession? 00:09:14.060 --> 00:09:16.440 Just have a conversation with the person next to you about that. 00:09:19.259 --> 00:09:19.720 Great. 00:09:20.580 --> 00:09:21.480 What do we think? 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:31.180 Anybody want to share their thoughts? 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:34.980 Anyone can understand? 00:09:35.300 --> 00:09:35.460 Yep. 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:38.139 Yep. 00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:43.420 Yes. 00:09:43.920 --> 00:09:44.399 Yes. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:46.759 It's sufficient for understanding salvation. 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:52.120 So, any, not anyone can understand all of it. 00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:53.259 Right? 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:59.240 But, it is sufficient and sufficiently clear in teaching the way of salvation. 00:09:59.679 --> 00:09:59.799 Yeah. 00:10:00.939 --> 00:10:01.620 Anything else? 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:01.620 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:14.720 Thank you, Paul. 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:14.720 00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:33.500 Yeah, yeah, the Spirit has to remove prejudice. 00:10:38.179 --> 00:10:40.179 Right, yeah, yeah. 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:43.460 Right, yeah. 00:10:44.659 --> 00:10:46.139 When they were commissioned, yeah. 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:50.460 Yeah, so we'll come on and think about the work of the Spirit 00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:53.019 and understanding it, understanding the Scriptures, 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.899 but they use a phrase, ordinary means. 00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:58.220 What do they, oh, ordinary measures. 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:03.279 What does ordinary measures mean at the end of that sentence, do you think? 00:11:07.379 --> 00:11:08.700 Yeah, reading it, yeah. 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:12.460 So it's not like, you know, the Bible code thing. 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:16.779 It's like read every fourth word and some secret message pops out, yeah. 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:18.960 It sounds fanciful, doesn't it? 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:20.620 But people do treat the Bible like that, don't they? 00:11:20.680 --> 00:11:24.740 But actually, the Bible is written as literature that you can understand. 00:11:24.740 --> 00:11:29.860 Now, you might have heard the term, the perspicuity of Scripture 00:11:29.860 --> 00:11:32.320 or the doctrine of the clarity of Scripture. 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:36.560 This is what this is based on, the idea that the Bible is clear. 00:11:37.419 --> 00:11:42.320 This is like the kind of cornerstone in some ways of the Reformation, 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:48.080 the idea that the Bible is intelligible and clear on the way of salvation. 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:54.060 But the point isn't that all of the Bible is equally clear as the rest of the Bible. 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.520 They're not saying that everything in the Bible is obvious or easy to understand. 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:00.139 Not even that it doesn't take work to understand, 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.980 or even that some people might be better at understanding the Bible than others, right? 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:08.700 He says some people understand the teachings more clearly than others. 00:12:09.660 --> 00:12:14.580 Rather, the claim is that the Bible is clear about salvation in such a way 00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:19.840 that anyone reading the Bible or hearing the Bible in their own language, 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:22.639 whether they are highly educated or otherwise, 00:12:23.139 --> 00:12:26.940 will be able to understand what is required for salvation. 00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:32.259 And not with special skills, but with the ordinary means of reading and learning. 00:12:33.300 --> 00:12:36.680 Again, Bavinck explains what we mean by the clarity of Scripture. 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:43.559 It means only that the truth, the knowledge of which is necessary to everyone for salvation, 00:12:44.219 --> 00:12:47.979 though not spelt out with equal clarity on every page of Scripture, 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:54.779 is nevertheless presented throughout all of Scripture in such a simple and intelligible form 00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:58.500 that a person concerned about the salvation of his or her soul 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.500 can easily, by personal reading and study, 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:06.459 learn to know that truth from Scripture, 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:10.919 without the assistance and guidance of the church and the priest. 00:13:12.620 --> 00:13:15.139 Now, it's worth thinking, are they right? 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:17.479 Okay, so were they right to think this? 00:13:17.559 --> 00:13:18.639 Where did it come from? 00:13:19.299 --> 00:13:21.199 Where did the Reformers get this idea from? 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:23.099 Why did it get put into the Confession? 00:13:24.839 --> 00:13:25.219 That doesn't... 00:13:27.099 --> 00:13:28.959 Yeah, why would they believe such a thing? 00:13:29.319 --> 00:13:32.620 Well, the reason for believing such a thing is because they were convinced 00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:34.719 this is what the Bible teaches about itself. 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:40.279 So they say, the Bible claims for itself to be a light to all people. 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:45.279 The Bible doesn't claim to be a light to priests who then shine the light for others, 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:51.519 but rather the Scriptures are anticipated as being a direct witness to God's people themselves. 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.960 So let's go through some of these examples. 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:57.279 And I've printed them out on your handout, so you don't have to turn to these passages in the Bible. 00:13:57.419 --> 00:14:02.500 So if you take Moses speaking to the people of Israel before they go into the Promised Land with Joshua, 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.659 he tells them that God has not put his words far away from them, 00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:10.019 but near to them so that they might know the way to go. 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:11.019 So he says, 00:14:11.019 --> 00:14:16.079 Now, what I am commanding you today is not difficult for you or beyond your reach. 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.259 It's not up in heaven so that you'll have to ask who will ascend into heaven and get it 00:14:20.259 --> 00:14:22.720 and proclaim it to us so that we may obey it. 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:27.199 Nor is it beyond the sea so that you have to ask who will cross the sea to get it 00:14:27.199 --> 00:14:29.100 and proclaim it to us so we may obey it. 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:31.680 No, the word is very near you. 00:14:31.800 --> 00:14:34.680 It's in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. 00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:42.720 Now, clearly, Moses wasn't anticipating that each individual Israelite would have a written copy of the Torah, 00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:46.920 but he is understanding that the word is for them as the people, isn't it? 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.360 Psalm 119, we read that the Scriptures are to show people where to go. 00:14:52.899 --> 00:14:53.480 Verse 105, 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:58.259 Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path. 00:14:58.259 --> 00:14:59.659 Verse 130, 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:04.919 The unfolding of your words gives light and it gives understanding to the simple. 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:07.460 It's the same in the book of Proverbs. 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:14.779 For this command is a lamp, this teaching is a light, and correction and instruction are the way to life. 00:15:16.179 --> 00:15:21.539 Then when you read the Old Testament prophets, they are addressing the people, aren't they? 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:25.139 When their words are written, they are written for the people. 00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:31.699 You may remember that Nehemiah and Ezra, when they have rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem and the temple, 00:15:31.819 --> 00:15:35.620 they are reading the Scriptures to the people so that they might hear God's word. 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:40.539 Jesus, when he comes, he doesn't just gather the religious leaders. 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:42.379 He comes and speaks to the crowds. 00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:47.980 He expects his teaching to be intelligible and understood by common people of every day. 00:15:47.980 --> 00:15:55.620 The New Testament letters are written to the churches themselves and not just the leaders of the church. 00:15:56.340 --> 00:16:01.019 Interestingly, there's an argument used later on for congregational church governance, 00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:04.740 is that the Bible is addressed to the people in the church, not just the leaders of the church. 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:11.980 Then in the New Testament, people are commended for listening and carefully checking against the Scriptures what is being said. 00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:19.820 Acts 17 verse 11 says that the Bereans, now the Berean Jews, were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica. 00:16:20.019 --> 00:16:20.259 Why? 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:27.420 Well, they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:33.779 Bereans are commended for being those people who are kind of engaging with the Scriptures and listening to what they're saying. 00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:39.519 John says in his gospel that he's writing so that his readers might understand how to be saved. 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:47.879 He says, but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. 00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:56.980 It's significant, isn't it, that the reformers and the writers of the confessions took all of that and concluded that Scripture must be clear. 00:16:56.980 --> 00:17:04.500 God is the ultimate author and has spoken and written in such a way that the way of salvation is plain and clear. 00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:12.339 And that nowhere is it taught or anticipated in the Bible that the Bible should not be read by all people and especially by all Christians. 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:20.299 Now, it's worth thinking before we apply this and how this fits with what we saw last week. 00:17:20.299 --> 00:17:27.720 So if you remember last week, we said, didn't we, that Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God ultimately by faith, right? 00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:31.259 So we believe that God's word is God's word by faith. 00:17:31.299 --> 00:17:38.919 In other words, it's a work of the Spirit opening our eyes and quickening our hearts to believe in Jesus that leads us to believe that it's his word to us. 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:47.399 And here the claim is that faith is explained clearly by the Scriptures in a way that everyone can understand and no one commits. 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:57.500 And so with that faith, we're not separated from the word, but it's given to us in a way that we can understand, be guided by it as we walk through life. 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:00.940 So perhaps, maybe I can put it this way. 00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:04.420 Last week, I was trying to reassure you that your job is not to defend the Bible. 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:11.400 The Bible is able to defend itself because ultimately the Bible gives faith as we read it and understand it. 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.840 That then assures us that it's true. 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:19.939 This time, I'm saying that the Bible not only defends itself, it also explains itself, right? 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.399 And so anyone can read it and understand it. 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:25.720 So they go on in the confession. 00:18:26.699 --> 00:18:29.899 And I didn't put this on your handout, but 1.9 says this. 00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:35.339 The infallible rule for interpreting Scripture is the Scriptures itself. 00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:43.699 Therefore, when there is a question about the true and full meaning of any part of Scripture, and each passage has only one meaning, not many, 00:18:44.179 --> 00:18:50.019 it must be understood in the light of other passages that speak more clearly. 00:18:50.019 --> 00:19:10.639 So the Bible is able to explain itself, and anyone can read it. 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:15.740 Now, how do you think that helps with the statement that we made at the start? 00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:19.240 Turn to the person next to you and have a think about that. 00:19:19.360 --> 00:19:25.080 How does any of that help you with the, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say? 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.420 And then I've got some suggested answers that I'm going to go through, but give that. 00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:30.060 Okay. 00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:43.539 Let me give you some suggested ways that I think this helps us with the, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say. 00:19:44.140 --> 00:19:50.060 I've got four suggested answers, and maybe these will cut across what you've said, and then we can take some questions. 00:19:50.500 --> 00:19:51.080 Okay, number one. 00:19:51.079 --> 00:20:02.960 Well, while it might be true that the Bible needs to be interpreted, still the experience of Christians is that the main teaching is very clear and easy to understand and hasn't really been contradicted. 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:11.559 I think the one that Jeff raised, where it's non-Christian friends who are saying, oh, well, I don't really believe the Bible because you can say it, make it say whatever you want it to say. 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:23.240 You can say to them that the most remarkable thing is that most of history, people have believed the same things about the way of salvation from the Bible, right? 00:20:23.639 --> 00:20:28.200 What I believe about how you're saying is exactly what the early church believed about how you're saying. 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:35.000 You know, in our church, we read confessions that were written thousands of years ago because we still believe the same things. 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:41.799 If you're looking at the surprise from interpreting the scriptures, it is the agreement, not the disagreement, which is surprising. 00:20:42.859 --> 00:20:45.680 That is incredible when you think about that down through history. 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:52.599 And so I think people jump onto that bandwagon, and Jeff's answer was actually quite a good one, wasn't it? 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:54.119 Just read it, right? 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:56.359 Just read it because it is clear. 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:04.400 But actually, it is the agreement in interpretation which has been extraordinary down through history. 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:11.480 Secondly, I think it's worth saying that it is possible to twist the Bible to mean things it wasn't meant to mean. 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:16.519 But because the Bible is in everyone's hands, we keep one another safe, right? 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:24.299 So the way that you keep one another, you keep people safe from twisting the Bible is that you give it to everybody and we work on it together, right? 00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:27.680 Novel interpretations are usually wrong, right? 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:40.700 So if you've come up with, you know, an interesting decision over what John 3.16 means that you can't find anybody that agrees with you on, I mean, I hate to break it to you, but you're probably misunderstanding it, right? 00:21:40.700 --> 00:21:48.019 Because actually, Christians have been understanding the Scriptures and applying them to themselves for generations and generations. 00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:55.980 And in that sense, the Roman Catholic Church had got it wrong, hadn't they, in medieval times? 00:21:56.059 --> 00:22:01.000 It was that they thought that we surrendered to them rather than they were a gift to us, right? 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:05.839 So theologians belong to us, we don't belong to them, right? 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:13.500 This is Paul, isn't it, in the beginning of Corinthians where he says, you know, people are saying, oh, I belong to Paul, I belong to Apollos, I belong to whoever. 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:16.400 Actually, no, no, it's the other way around, isn't it? 00:22:16.420 --> 00:22:18.299 They belong to us to help us. 00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:23.299 They are ministers, they are not majesties, yeah? 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:26.980 We don't bow to them, they serve us to help us understand. 00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:41.779 And so the way that we don't just all spit off and say different things is that we help one another circle in on the meaning by serving one another, rather than just surrendering to one particular understanding. 00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:53.539 It's interesting that the Roman Catholic Church still has a problem with this doctrine of clarity or perspicuity, and says that that's why the Protestant Church is so divided, right? 00:22:53.539 --> 00:23:07.420 And you can link this idea of perspicuity to individualism or radical individualism, that basically you give anybody a Bible and say, there you go, you can interpret it yourself, and they go off and wander off. 00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:13.659 But actually, it shouldn't lead to that if we work together on it in communities of faith. 00:23:13.660 --> 00:23:21.800 Thirdly, when we disagree over a passage of the Bible, we are not saying that the Bible is saying two different things. 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.019 It says the one thing, right? 00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:27.340 One of us, or both of us, must be wrong. 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:32.080 This is 1.9, which I didn't put on your handout for some crazy reason, right? 00:23:32.820 --> 00:23:36.040 Each passage has only one meaning and not many, right? 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:43.779 So, you're not saying that the Bible, people can make the Bible say whatever they want it to say, but that doesn't mean that they're all right, yeah? 00:23:44.639 --> 00:23:46.579 It means that lots of people are wrong. 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:56.420 And so, if you and I disagree over what a passage means, it's probable that I'm wrong, or you're wrong, or we're both wrong. 00:23:56.500 --> 00:23:58.680 It's not that the Bible is saying lots of different things. 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:08.180 And actually, the fact that we can come to different conclusions on a matter might be an indicator that that matter is not as important over the things that we might agree on. 00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:12.100 And so, the weight of the Scriptures is significant in that, too. 00:24:14.019 --> 00:24:22.480 Now, fourthly, while Bible interpretation isn't perfect, God has written in a way that is easy for any culture and any time to understand what he is saying. 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:28.700 And he hasn't abandoned the Christian in this task, but has given us his Spirit to help us. 00:24:29.299 --> 00:24:30.779 So, this is important, isn't it? 00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:34.900 This is what Mike was touching on, that the Spirit helps us to understand the Scriptures. 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:45.500 Because actually, often, the problem is not so much just understanding what a text says, but is taking on board and accepting it for ourselves. 00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:55.000 One of the reasons that people have such a problem with the Romans 7 stuff that we were looking at this morning is because people find it very difficult to accept that God would want them to battle with sin. 00:24:55.859 --> 00:24:57.019 That's actually the big deal. 00:24:57.099 --> 00:24:59.299 It's not really the interpretation of the passage. 00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:01.119 And so, that's the thing, isn't it? 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:09.720 The Spirit is given to us to help us not only understand the words, but also that we might accept them and internalize them for ourselves. 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:16.819 And it is in submission to God and his words that we then begin to understand it and apply it to our lives. 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:18.279 Okay. 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:24.400 Any questions or comments as we pull things to a close? 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:24.680 Yes. 00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:44.960 Do you think this should change how we read our Bible in terms of should we try and just read it without the loads of other things? 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.880 I know that you're not going to understand what your devotion and whatever. 00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:49.960 I know that you need to help. 00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:50.460 Yeah. 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:55.819 Do you think it's like a challenge to us that we should let the Spirit teach us? 00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:56.960 And, you know... 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:00.019 That is a brilliant question, Daisy. 00:26:00.120 --> 00:26:00.460 Thank you. 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:00.640 Yeah. 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:02.079 Should we affect how we read? 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:07.039 So, I think absolutely we should just read the Bible because it's the Bible. 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:16.579 I know some pastors have a problem with study Bibles because the notes are there sort of inside the text of the Bible and it's perhaps a little distracting. 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:17.500 And I don't know. 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:20.200 It depends how your heart and mind works, doesn't it? 00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.399 Whether you read the text in the same way. 00:26:23.619 --> 00:26:26.639 But there is a sense in which, you know, you're given the Bible and the interpretation. 00:26:27.379 --> 00:26:28.460 Actually, those are different. 00:26:28.579 --> 00:26:29.819 Those are different things, aren't they? 00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:32.019 So, yeah. 00:26:35.779 --> 00:26:37.740 I mean, Nathan and I have talked a bit about this. 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:40.279 In sermon preparation, how quickly do you turn to a commentary? 00:26:40.700 --> 00:26:44.480 You know, how quickly do you go, right, I'm going to read this and try and understand it and get to grips with it myself. 00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:46.359 And how quickly do you turn to a commentary? 00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:47.439 I think that varies. 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.879 I think we should be expecting to be able to understand the Bible. 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:52.579 It's not hidden. 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:54.859 It is exposed for you. 00:26:54.859 --> 00:26:57.039 You should be able to read it and you should be able to understand it. 00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:02.099 You should be able to read that with your friends and in your small groups and in your families. 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:03.799 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:17.059 I wonder, Daisy, as well, whether we live at a time, don't we, where there are so many resources that it is overwhelming. 00:27:17.059 --> 00:27:24.539 How do you deal with those? 00:27:24.859 --> 00:27:26.940 Because I don't want to see what it is real. 00:27:27.740 --> 00:27:27.879 Yeah. 00:27:28.159 --> 00:27:30.079 To just talk about it. 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:32.559 But then how do you talk about it? 00:27:32.639 --> 00:27:35.419 It's not helping to be big or big or big or big or big or big? 00:27:35.419 --> 00:27:36.319 Okay. 00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:37.240 Yes. 00:27:37.259 --> 00:27:38.679 And how do you decide what they are? 00:27:39.139 --> 00:27:42.440 And how do you work out whether a topic is unimportant or important? 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:43.319 And all those questions. 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:43.720 Yes. 00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:53.939 So I think we need to submit, I think, in part to the fact that we're not the first people to read the Bible. 00:27:54.099 --> 00:27:58.200 So you're not immediately going to know the answers to all those questions. 00:27:58.399 --> 00:28:03.359 Over time, you will get to know what the scripture emphasizes and doesn't emphasize. 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:13.839 I think I hesitated to put that on there because, say, for example, the issue of sexuality, someone might say, oh, well, we just disagree on this. 00:28:14.399 --> 00:28:15.599 And therefore, it's not very important. 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:16.719 It's not about salvation. 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:22.660 But actually, this is one of those things where novel interpretations of the Bible are probably wrong. 00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:37.720 Because it's only in the last however many years that people have interpreted the Bible to say, oh, no, actually, the Bible is totally fine with same-sex relationships or same-sex sexual relationships. 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:39.819 And it's not, is it? 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:43.660 So that's a novel reading, which is probably wrong, certainly wrong. 00:28:45.380 --> 00:28:48.460 And so we can't just put that in a category of, oh, we disagree about it. 00:28:48.460 --> 00:28:55.680 But I think as you go on in reading the Bible, you should develop a humility about your understanding of it. 00:28:56.420 --> 00:29:01.400 So that you, you know, the Bible is really clear about what it is to be saved. 00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:10.660 But you realize that you are given other Christians in order to help you understand it and to circle in on its meaning and that you should be good at listening to others and working it out. 00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:16.920 The final part of your question was what about understanding what's important and not important. 00:29:18.460 --> 00:29:24.960 Yeah, I think that should be, that becomes clearer, doesn't it? 00:29:25.299 --> 00:29:29.480 As you read the passages and go, okay, we can't come to an agreement on this. 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:31.740 But we do agree that one of us is wrong. 00:29:34.700 --> 00:29:36.200 Baptism is a good example of that, right? 00:29:36.860 --> 00:29:46.600 So lots of my dear friends, lots of the people who are much brighter than me at university and at seminary, believe in baptizing infants. 00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:48.699 And I don't, I disagree with them. 00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:53.939 But I agree with them and they agree with me that we're not both right. 00:29:54.659 --> 00:29:55.439 One of us is wrong. 00:29:57.419 --> 00:30:03.359 And so, yeah, we trust the Lord in that and that actually one day it won't matter. 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:06.679 Yeah. 00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:06.900 Yes. 00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:10.259 Obviously, there's lots of translations. 00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:10.840 Yeah. 00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:14.440 I was just thinking about the translation, like the message. 00:30:14.620 --> 00:30:14.920 Yeah. 00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:18.320 A lot of people find that really helpful. 00:30:18.360 --> 00:30:18.799 Yes. 00:30:19.060 --> 00:30:21.220 Especially when you say we're not all looking at the Bible. 00:30:21.340 --> 00:30:21.820 Yes. 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.259 So what do you think about that? 00:30:23.259 --> 00:30:23.859 Yes. 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:29.980 So, interestingly, I read you the Confession 1.7 and 1.9. 00:30:30.140 --> 00:30:32.500 1.8 is about translating the Bible. 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:39.640 So one of the things that the Reformers do is that they translate the Scriptures into everybody's everyday language, 00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:43.019 not, you know, so that people can understand it and connect with it. 00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:49.579 And so an understanding that it's, you know, that's still God's word for us. 00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:51.759 So we don't have to read it in Hebrew and Greek. 00:30:53.539 --> 00:30:55.019 I think something like the message. 00:30:56.059 --> 00:31:00.279 So Bible translation is more complicated than I'm going to be able to explain in a few minutes. 00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:06.759 But the message is really an interpretation of the Bible rather than the Bible itself, isn't it? 00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:10.519 Because it's gone so far from just translating the words. 00:31:10.740 --> 00:31:12.779 It's gone into translating the meaning. 00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:13.319 Right. 00:31:14.980 --> 00:31:21.720 Something like the NIV is more like a sort of dynamic equivalent where it's trying to stay as close to the words as possible, 00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:25.099 but also recognizing that doesn't always read very well. 00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:31.079 And so it gives a sort of equivalent of it in English in a way that is as faithful as it can be. 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:40.839 The ESV would have a slightly different philosophy where it doesn't really care too much whether you sound a bit odd when you read it out loud, 00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:47.740 because the word order is a bit funny because it's trying to stay more close by the Greek and the Hebrew than the other. 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:54.619 So they say, I don't think they always keep their promise, but they do say that they try and translate the Greek words the same way in passages. 00:31:54.619 --> 00:31:57.619 But that doesn't always scan. But that's that's the sort of pledge. 00:31:57.619 --> 00:32:04.819 So I think as a as a as a Christian, I'm not sometimes reading the message can be really helpful to me. 00:32:05.019 --> 00:32:06.319 Devotion, it can be really helpful to me. 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:12.139 But I probably need to read the message a bit like I read the bottom bits of a study Bible when I read. 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:17.659 Actually, this is someone explaining it to me and they might have got the sense of it wrong. 00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:22.299 And so I want to I wouldn't want that to be my the only thing that I read. 00:32:22.919 --> 00:32:26.960 But just like a study Bible can be really helpful or a devotional commentary can be really helpful. 00:32:27.139 --> 00:32:28.799 The message can be really, really helpful. 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:46.180 And then that's why I think the people who are teaching you the scriptures need to at least be able to engage with the original languages in such a way that they can access material on it so that you know that you're being taught is from the original as far as possible. 00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:46.740 Yeah. 00:32:48.259 --> 00:32:49.000 Does that help? 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:52.240 Any other questions? 00:32:52.240 --> 00:33:07.120 The thing that you should all do after this evening is take one of those good news Gospels that we've got and you should just give it out. 00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:07.339 Right. 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:13.220 Because this is basically the conviction is that people can read the Bible and understand how to be saved. 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:13.640 Right. 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:16.039 And so that's why you've got Bibles to give away. 00:33:16.940 --> 00:33:18.380 You should take them and give them away. 00:33:18.700 --> 00:33:20.319 Let me pray and we'll close that way. 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:20.620 Right. 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:34.319 Father, we thank you so much that you've not set the way of salvation in some obscure way that we can't understand or access, 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:39.220 but that you've given it to us in your word so that we can read it and understand it. 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:45.140 And even small children can hear it, understand it and put their faith and trust in you. 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.620 We want to pray that you would make us Bible readers. 00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:52.739 We love to engage with you in your word and listen to what you say. 00:33:53.239 --> 00:34:01.799 We thank you that we live at a time where we have the Bible in our own language, in our hands, on our phones, on the tablets, read to us in audio as well. 00:34:01.899 --> 00:34:07.299 Lord, we pray that we might make the best use of all of these things, that we might understand you. 00:34:07.399 --> 00:34:09.059 We might think your thoughts after you. 00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.339 We might become more like the Lord Jesus. 00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:17.220 And help us, we pray, at a time where people love to twist your word to say whatever they want it to say. 00:34:17.660 --> 00:34:27.340 Help us, we pray, to be honest and to be clear that you are able to communicate what you want to say, if only we would listen. 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:29.760 Please, Lord, give us submissive hearts to you. 00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:31.860 Be at work in us by your spirit for your glory. 00:34:32.380 --> 00:34:33.240 In Jesus' name. 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.200 Amen. 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:34.860 Amen. 00:34:34.860 --> 00:34:34.980 Amen. 00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:34.980 00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:34.980 00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:34.980