WEBVTT

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 Good morning, everyone. Good to see you. If it's your first time here, welcome you. It feels very messy today, but I can assure you it feels messy every single week.

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! But it's part of our goal to figure out what it is that we're even here to do and to keep ourselves in this uncomfortable state almost.

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 I love this idea that this church is one that is limited in comfy seats because we don't just gather, we scatter, we spend time doing different things.

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 And we're going to fight for the time that we have here. We're going to fight for space for our kids.

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 And if you are here with your kid and you're like, whoa, what's going on here? Where have the kids been taken?

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 We assure you they are very, very safe. And we are always trying to figure out ways to bring them closer.

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 There's venues that we're looking at even nearby here to see how we can give them a space where they can actually really, one, feel valued and two, be in a safe space to learn.

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 That's something that we're trying. If you have ideas, please let us know as well. We're trying to figure this out on the go.

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 So that's one thing. The other thing is we're carrying on through One Thessalonians.

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 And it's a big one. It's a heavy one.

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 And this one is for this week. But actually, this has been something that has been ruminating in my heart for a long, long time now.

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 And I'll tell you a little bit more. But before then, why don't I invite you to stand for the word of the Lord?

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 God, we hang on your every word.

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 Your word gives life.

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 Your word has power.

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 Power enough to penetrate into the very depths of our souls.

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 To transform our lives on the outside as well.

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 And so we don't take it for granted.

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 The fact that we have this book.

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 That we have this way.

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 And so we cling on to every word now.

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 Holy Spirit, would you shine a light on the bits that you want us to hear?

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 We know that's all of it, but you know that we are limited in our capacity.

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 So would you help us?

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 Would you guide us as we read this word?

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 That your will would be done, is all that we ask.

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 The first letter of Paul to the Thessalonians.

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 We are on chapter 2.

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 For you yourselves know, brothers, that our coming to you was not in vain.

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 But though we had already suffered and been shamefully treated at Philippi, as you know,

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 we had boldness in our God to declare to you the gospel of God in the midst of much conflict.

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 For our appeal does not spring from error or impurity or any attempt to deceive.

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 But just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel,

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 and so we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts.

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 For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed.

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 God is witness.

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 Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others,

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 though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ.

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 But we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother taking care of her own children.

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 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God,

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 but also our own selves, because you had become very dear to us.

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 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil.

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 We worked night and day that we might not be a burden to any of you,

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 while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

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 You are witnesses.

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 And God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers.

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 For you know how, like a father with his children,

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 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God,

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 who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

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 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you receive the word of God,

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 which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men,

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 but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

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 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea.

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 For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews,

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 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets,

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 and drove us out and displeased God and opposed all mankind by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles,

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 that they might be saved.

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 So as always to fill up the measure of their sins,

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 but wrath has come upon them at last.

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 But since we were torn away from you, brothers, for a short time,

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 in person, not in heart, we endeavored the more eagerly,

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 and with great desire to see you face to face,

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 because we wanted to come to you.

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 I, Paul, again and again, but Satan hindered us.

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 For what is our hope or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus at his coming?

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 Is it not you?

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 For you are our glory and joy.

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 This is the word of the Lord.

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 Please take a seat.

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 So the church in Thessalonia is two years old.

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 Not very different from this.

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 And Paul starts it, and we see this in Acts 17.

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 He starts it, and then he gets run out of town.

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 Why?

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 Because the Jews there are saying, what is this?

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 Why are you turning things upside down?

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 Is what he's saying.

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 Is what they're saying.

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 And then basically they get sent out.

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 Him and Silas get sent away.

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 And then they're just thinking about this church.

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 Man, those people that we started something with.

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 That was so good.

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 I wonder how they're doing.

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 And so he's writing to this church now.

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 And of course, there's something that's happening.

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 Because whilst he's writing to them, and while this church is growing,

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 and last week I said about they were known for their work of faith,

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 and labor of love, and steadfastness of hope.

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 This was a solid church.

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 This was a solid group of people who really were transformed by the Lord.

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 And he says, I've heard such good things.

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 Heard great things about you guys.

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 But I'm also hearing something else.

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 There are people out there who are trying to tear my name apart.

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 Because now I'm gone, the Jews there are like, hey, who's that guy who started your thing anyway?

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 Like, is he legit?

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 Was he real?

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 Because you've got to understand, at that time, there were tons of leaders and tons of prophets

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 who were doing things for their own personal gain.

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 Have you heard of that?

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 Have you heard of leaders that would dare to use their authority and abuse it?

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 And to cause people to trust them, only to then turn it back for their own personal gain?

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 And that was the culture that was in.

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 And so the people outside were like, hey, that Paul, that Silas, that Timothy,

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 those people that started your thing that you guys are going so well in,

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 actually, maybe they weren't so good at all.

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 They were trying to smear his name.

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 And so then he comes back and he writes this letter.

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 And basically what he's saying in this letter, this part of the letter is, hey,

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 you guys know me.

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 You know my motives and you know my methods.

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 You know my motives and you know my methods.

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 What he's talking about, what he's sharing about is his heart as a leader.

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 People ask me, every time we go back home to England, people ask me, hey, what are you learning?

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 What have you learned in these last five and a half years that you've been in Hong Kong?

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 The thing that I would say the most is leadership.

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 The Lord has been showing me that leadership is hard.

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 Leadership is hard.

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 And there are not many leaders, good leaders out there.

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 I don't know about you, but growing up I had this concept, I had this idea that the adults knew what they were doing.

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 People are kind of just giggling at that now because I'm like, oh, I'm sure, I'm sure.

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 I'm sure there's a group of people around a table somewhere or with the letter C in front of their title who know what's happening,

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 who will make the right decisions.

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 Didn't you have that concept?

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 Except I think if there's one thing that Hong Kong has taught me in these last five years is,

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 whew, the people at the top aren't always that sure about what they're doing.

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 Honestly, there was a moment maybe a couple of years ago I was looking around at the world leaders.

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 And I'm not smart enough to get involved into politics and all those kinds of things,

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 but there was just a moment where I just glanced across the whole world

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 and looked at the world leaders that were in place.

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 It was a time where in my home country we had a guy called Boris,

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 and then there was a guy called Donald, and then there was a guy called Vlad.

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 And I'm just like, oh, Lord Jesus, if there was a moment to come back,

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 now might be the good time to come back.

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 If you were thinking about when should I pull the plug on this mankind experiment,

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 as I looked at that world leadership, I was like, oh, it could be now.

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 Is that all we have?

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 I have a friend who's part of a consulting company, and he said there is a premium on leadership right now,

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 on good leadership.

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 And those of us who spend a lot of time with the next generation,

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 and if you are the next generation, you'll probably share this sentiment,

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 you don't really trust your leaders anymore.

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 You don't trust them anymore because you're just seeing them just make mistake after mistake,

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 getting exposed for different scandals all around the world.

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 And you're like, you know what, you guys don't know what you're doing.

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 And as I then stepped into leadership, I was like, oh, I can confirm that now.

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 I don't really know what I'm doing.

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 There are things that I'm like, oh, is that the right decision?

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 Should we be doing that?

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 You see, if we make this decision, this group will be happy, but this group won't be.

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 And then I realized from actually, so I was a secondary school teacher for seven years in England.

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 I used to be the one who sat at the back of the classroom during the staff meetings,

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 just kind of slouched because it's been a long day, and I'm a cool teacher.

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 And just let the headmasters and let the head of whatever do whatever the thing,

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 and they can tell us, and we're just going to sit at the back and just chill.

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 And then I was like, oh, they're making such a bad decision there.

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 And then once I'm there myself, I'm like, oh, when the book stops with you,

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 you realize that target is now on your back.

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 And now you understand when they make that decision, yes, there are people who will be unhappy,

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 and there'll be people who are ecstatic about your decision,

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 and you're just stuck in the middle.

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 Leadership is hard.

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 I had a friend tell me that he's a head of Asia for a company,

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 and he said, if I was to describe leadership,

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 leadership is basically an invitation for people to go on a suboptimal journey.

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 Leadership is inviting people with you onto a suboptimal journey,

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 saying, actually, life is not perfect.

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 The world is not perfect.

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 Our company doesn't have unlimited resources.

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 We do not have the perfect people.

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 It is suboptimal.

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 But why do we need leaders is because it's suboptimal.

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 We need discernment.

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 We need to make hard decisions.

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 And so it's a suboptimal journey, and I'm inviting you to come along that.

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 We're not pretending that we have everything together,

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 but we're going to try and figure it out.

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 In some ways, Paul is going here, hey, I need you to know,

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 I need you to remember my motive for being a leader and my methods for how I did it.

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 Now, because Scripture says, well, you might say, well, actually, leadership is so hard.

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 Why does anyone want to be a leader?

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 And that is so true.

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 And there is a fatigue of leadership when you're so tired of leading,

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 when you're so tired of having to make decisions and then being stabbed behind the back.

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 But then why keep leading?

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 1 Timothy 3, Paul says, hey, those who desire the role of leadership,

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 it's a noble task.

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 It's a hard one.

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 You'll be measured differently.

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 But we should.

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 We should desire it.

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 We should aspire to be a leader.

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 Why?

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 Because through that, we can bring about God's kingdom into our own sphere of influence.

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 John Tyson said, what is leadership?

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 Leadership is godly influence towards God's will.

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 Godly influence towards God's will or God's agenda.

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 You may be disgruntled with leadership.

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 Maybe you watched The Wizard of Oz when you were growing up,

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 and you were like, what's that really about?

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 It's such a strange story.

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 In some ways, it's a commentary of the cynicism that we face in society about leadership.

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 That behind everything, behind the facade, behind the big shadow and the big voice,

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 is this insecure little man who doesn't know what he's doing, who's scared.

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 Now, I don't speak on behalf of all the leaders in this world,

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 and there are some leaders here who are great and confident.

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 But I'll say, on behalf of all leaders, and anyone who leads in anything,

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 there's no different to the people sat around here.

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 The goal is, how do we become a good leader?

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 Leadership is hard, especially, if I just might add, just squeeze in for a little bit,

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 especially for pastors, especially during COVID.

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 I think that was a stat that 70% of pastors worldwide during COVID felt burnt out.

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 One quote was that pastors became the emotional punching bag

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 of all the anxiety projected onto them by the people they were trying to care for.

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 Let me just say that again.

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 The pastors became this emotional punching bag

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 where all the anxiety of the people they were caring for was projected onto them.

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 It's your fault that I'm not feeling good.

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 It's your fault that I'm scared.

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 It's your fault that I'm this.

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 And pastors were like, oh, maybe it is my fault.

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 And then they quit and they resign.

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 And some even leave the church.

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 Paul here, in some ways, gives a manifesto for what his leadership is.

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 He shares his heart about what it is.

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 Because something maybe that pains me the most is, like,

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 growing up as a young leader myself,

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 was seeing leaders that I grew up respecting falling.

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 Right?

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 Do you remember?

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 You've seen those?

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 When they say you never meet your heroes,

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 this is like a different kind of thing as well when you meet them.

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 Or when you have...

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 Okay, so I'll give you an example.

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 And I'll try not to be specific with names.

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 So growing up, I had three pastors that I really looked up to.

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 Okay?

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 One I'll show you is a guy called Francis Chan.

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 I even copied his hairstyle.

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 And it's...

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 And we're trying...

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 Side story, it's really funny.

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 One time, him and I were walking down the street here in Hong Kong.

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 It was COVID.

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 So we both had our masks on.

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 And we were both wearing the same green T-shirt.

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 And we were walking.

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 This was leaving the Young Life office because it was during this gab's time.

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 And we were walking.

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 And one of my friends saw us from afar.

00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:55.879
 And she saw me first.

00:13:56.319 --> 00:13:58.159
 And she was like, oh, that's Francis Chan.

00:13:58.959 --> 00:14:01.679
 And later, she realized, oh, no, it's not.

00:14:01.719 --> 00:14:02.319
 It's just James Tang.

00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:04.399
 But next to James Tang was Francis Chan.

00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:05.879
 It was a moment.

00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:06.779
 So I had him.

00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:08.179
 And I was like, oh, just...

00:14:08.179 --> 00:14:09.539
 Again, last week, I talked about imitating.

00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:11.339
 And it was just...

00:14:11.339 --> 00:14:12.319
 That's someone I've modeled after.

00:14:12.459 --> 00:14:13.319
 There's another two, though.

00:14:13.339 --> 00:14:16.259
 Maybe I won't share the names because it hasn't been as good of all.

00:14:16.459 --> 00:14:18.919
 One guy was the head of an apologetics ministry.

00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:20.360
 Oh, so smart.

00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:22.399
 So clever in every way.

00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:23.500
 Just traveling around the world.

00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:27.799
 He was called the machine gun because he could just answer questions.

00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:29.419
 And his mind was just incredible.

00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:35.620
 And then there's another guy who was a leader of a popular church in New York.

00:14:36.099 --> 00:14:36.679
 Oh, so cool.

00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.719
 Honestly, stage presence, second to none.

00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.399
 And people are nodding because you know who I'm talking about.

00:14:43.579 --> 00:14:45.319
 And I looked at these three people.

00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:47.579
 I'm like, there's something to learn from all of them.

00:14:47.819 --> 00:14:49.439
 And I just love listening to them speak.

00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:50.159
 They're all very different.

00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.319
 And Keller was part of that, too, as maybe the fourth person.

00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:58.840
 But over these last few years, only in these last few years, they just started falling like flies.

00:15:01.300 --> 00:15:02.500
 And it's not just them, too.

00:15:03.900 --> 00:15:09.720
 You look at America, and I joke about this with Alex Lee because it's from the state that he's from in the great United States of America,

00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:16.520
 where just every other week it seems like there's a megachurch pastor who gets exposed for something.

00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:21.179
 There's some kind of scandal that is happening now or happened 20 years ago.

00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:22.019
 It doesn't really matter.

00:15:23.319 --> 00:15:27.139
 And then I'm like, gosh, if I was a young person who didn't really know about this Christian thing,

00:15:27.379 --> 00:15:34.319
 and all I'm seeing is these Christian leaders falling, that's just the – I'm not getting anywhere near that thing.

00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:36.539
 But is that all there is?

00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:39.539
 That we just kind of go, life sucks, leaders suck.

00:15:40.539 --> 00:15:42.839
 Paul's like, no, there is something about this.

00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:45.079
 And he shares about his motives and his methods.

00:15:45.139 --> 00:15:46.719
 And I wanted to share a little bit of that with you today.

00:15:46.899 --> 00:15:48.779
 He starts with verse 2, and he says this.

00:15:49.099 --> 00:15:53.539
 So, again, if you have your Bible, remember, the Bible only really exists in paper form.

00:15:53.779 --> 00:15:54.980
 The app version does not count.

00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:57.980
 Chapter 2, verse 2.

00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:01.219
 Because I love scribbling on my Bible.

00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:02.659
 I love highlighting it.

00:16:02.899 --> 00:16:06.179
 I love – because it's the way I stay awake and stay focused.

00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:11.059
 And then I look back at it and realize, oh, that was interesting to me a while ago.

00:16:11.339 --> 00:16:12.399
 And I'll think about that again.

00:16:12.579 --> 00:16:13.679
 So, anyway, verse 2.

00:16:14.479 --> 00:16:17.539
 Well, verse 1, he says, for you yourselves know, brothers, that our coming to you was not in vain.

00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.039
 But though we had already suffered and been shamefully treated at Philippi, as you know,

00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.719
 we had boldness in our God to declare to you the gospel of God in the midst of much conflict.

00:16:25.099 --> 00:16:25.899
 Do you know what he's saying here?

00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:27.319
 He's saying, do you remember when I first came?

00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:28.779
 It wasn't just for giggles.

00:16:29.579 --> 00:16:32.099
 It wasn't just because I thought this would be a fun thing to do.

00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:34.779
 Hey, let's go and get ourselves arrested and beaten.

00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:35.819
 How fun would that be?

00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.419
 He was like, just remember, I wasn't doing this for my own sake.

00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:42.899
 I wasn't doing this for my own personal enjoyment.

00:16:43.079 --> 00:16:43.859
 This was not fun.

00:16:44.019 --> 00:16:46.620
 Being beaten and put in prison is not fun.

00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:48.539
 And that's what happened in Philippi.

00:16:48.739 --> 00:16:53.039
 And we remember in Acts 16, he's beaten and he's locked up, and yet he's still singing.

00:16:54.379 --> 00:16:57.259
 And he's like, hey, this was not in vain, and this was not for my own personal thing.

00:16:57.419 --> 00:17:01.659
 There is an issue here that I need you to remember, that my motive wasn't for myself.

00:17:01.659 --> 00:17:09.259
 Now, during that time, there were a lot of leaders, a lot of prophets, a lot of people starting their own thing, all for their own personal gain.

00:17:10.059 --> 00:17:11.680
 And he talks about this in Philippians 2.

00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:16.019
 That actually, he's heard people sharing the gospel for selfish ambition and conceit.

00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:17.900
 Not sincerely, but thinking of themselves.

00:17:18.379 --> 00:17:19.139
 But then what did he say?

00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:19.539
 What then?

00:17:19.639 --> 00:17:22.779
 Only that in every way, in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed.

00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:32.160
 He said, look, I know there are people out there who are using Christianity, using the Jesus way, using even my name to preach something so that they can let acclaim.

00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:34.779
 That they can get the things that they want to get.

00:17:35.380 --> 00:17:36.740
 But he said, that was not the same for me.

00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:38.220
 This was not a fun time.

00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.300
 I was beaten in prison for this.

00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.060
 And he's really tackling the issue here, and he's defending himself.

00:17:44.900 --> 00:17:48.160
 Because people outside are saying, hey, that Paul, I don't know.

00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:48.580
 I don't know.

00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:49.759
 Why did he come and do that?

00:17:50.019 --> 00:17:51.940
 Maybe he made a profit somehow.

00:17:52.900 --> 00:17:54.700
 He's like, no, there's an issue of integrity here.

00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:56.560
 You remember why I came.

00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.920
 There's an issue of authority here.

00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.840
 Because he's saying, hey, it's not me if we carry on.

00:18:03.259 --> 00:18:03.700
 Verse 3.

00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.100
 For our appeal does not spring from error or impurity or any attempt to deceive.

00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:09.400
 But just as we have been approved by God.

00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:12.380
 He said, I'm not coming and saying, hey, I'm the one.

00:18:12.460 --> 00:18:13.259
 I'm the chosen one.

00:18:13.340 --> 00:18:13.880
 Listen to me.

00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:16.039
 He's saying, hey, I've been sent by God.

00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:17.160
 I've been approved by God.

00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:19.779
 There is an authority here that isn't just of this world.

00:18:21.560 --> 00:18:23.060
 And I'm not here just to flatter you.

00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:24.519
 We've all heard that, right?

00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:28.880
 When you want someone to do something for you, the best way is to flatter them.

00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.380
 It's to say nice things about them.

00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:33.560
 But he's saying, I didn't do that.

00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:35.720
 I came to do one thing, to tell you the truth.

00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:38.820
 Do you have people around you like that?

00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:44.020
 I had the privilege of meeting someone who was fairly famous.

00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:48.260
 And actually, one of the things that he was sharing to me about when he had a season of being a celebrity was,

00:18:48.620 --> 00:18:49.600
 you just don't know who to trust.

00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.920
 Because everyone is just saying to you the things that they want you to hear.

00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:58.800
 And it becomes such a suspicious society and culture that you have around you.

00:18:58.840 --> 00:18:59.960
 Because you don't know who to trust.

00:19:00.560 --> 00:19:03.120
 Because when people are complimenting you, you're like, that's just flattery.

00:19:03.820 --> 00:19:06.080
 But then you end up just thinking nothing of yourself as well.

00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:08.000
 There's just this dangerous place to be in.

00:19:08.300 --> 00:19:10.759
 And Paul's saying, I didn't come with any flattering words.

00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:13.940
 I came here to come and tell you the truth.

00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:17.240
 And then he's talking about his methods.

00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.920
 So his motive was, hey, I came here because I was sent by God and I was approved by God.

00:19:21.320 --> 00:19:22.700
 But hey, do you remember?

00:19:22.900 --> 00:19:23.400
 Verse 9.

00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:26.860
 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil we worked night and day,

00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:28.720
 that we might not be a burden to any of you.

00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:31.299
 He's saying, you remember who I was.

00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:32.320
 You remember what I did.

00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.840
 I don't want you guys to feel as though I was living off your back.

00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:38.840
 So me, Silas, and Timothy, we were working.

00:19:39.620 --> 00:19:40.400
 Day and night.

00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.600
 We weren't trying to leech off you in any way.

00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.100
 You were with us and you saw us.

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:48.640
 And this ties in with what I said last week.

00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:52.600
 I've always prayed, may my living always outrun my preaching.

00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:55.500
 May my preaching never outrun my living.

00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:02.220
 However good I become one day talking, may my living always be better.

00:20:03.120 --> 00:20:04.019
 That's the goal that we have.

00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:06.600
 Because society has something else that happens, which is this.

00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.480
 We promote someone into a place because of their gifting.

00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:13.779
 And the quote is, hey, never let your gifting take you to a place where your character can't keep you.

00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.960
 Never let your gifting take you to a place where your character can't keep you.

00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.960
 And I think this is another challenge that our society faces.

00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:28.360
 People who are very gifted in something, now with social media, it's all expedited.

00:20:28.660 --> 00:20:30.160
 And you can be kind of good at something.

00:20:30.380 --> 00:20:31.480
 You add a filter onto it.

00:20:31.539 --> 00:20:33.380
 And suddenly you become really good at something.

00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:34.579
 And you have not earned it.

00:20:34.579 --> 00:20:38.899
 The kids aren't here, so maybe it's safe to share this story.

00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:43.319
 As a basketball fan, as you know, I watch a lot of basketball.

00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:47.319
 And there's been a recent trend that I found that has been super interesting,

00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:51.819
 which is the celebrations have started to get pretty, what's the word?

00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:55.579
 Obnoxious, I guess, could be the word.

00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:01.779
 When someone scores a basket, they do things, they do night-night, which is, I put you to sleep, so go away.

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:02.619
 Is that what he does?

00:21:02.939 --> 00:21:03.099
 He does.

00:21:03.099 --> 00:21:03.179
 He does.

00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:06.799
 Johnny's like, this guy, convict this guy, Holy Spirit.

00:21:07.199 --> 00:21:11.759
 So, and of course, my dear son, 11, turning 12, he's playing basketball.

00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:12.559
 He's doing all these things.

00:21:12.639 --> 00:21:13.519
 And he's doing this.

00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:14.599
 And he's doing the ice in my veins.

00:21:14.639 --> 00:21:15.379
 And he's doing all these things.

00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:18.659
 And I'm like, man, I didn't grow up in that era.

00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:22.599
 When I missed five shots in a row, I'll be like, oh, I shouldn't shoot again.

00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:24.740
 If I shoot again, I'm going to get in trouble.

00:21:25.539 --> 00:21:28.099
 But the next generation have this thing, which is, I'm just going to keep shooting.

00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:31.259
 I can miss 10, and I'll hit one, and then I'll do a crazy celebration.

00:21:33.099 --> 00:21:35.059
 And I'm like, sit yourself down.

00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:41.419
 And of course, Steph Curry is a famous basketball player who's famous for his now night-night thing that we all saw in Paris.

00:21:42.459 --> 00:21:46.000
 But what we don't see, his gifting took him to a place.

00:21:47.199 --> 00:21:50.379
 But his character allows him to stay there, because how did he even get there?

00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.159
 There's these stories of how he trains, how he's the hardest person.

00:21:55.159 --> 00:21:57.039
 He's the first person in the gym, the last person out.

00:21:57.179 --> 00:22:00.899
 Where other NBA players train with him, and they get so tired, they throw up.

00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:10.340
 That's the level of intensity someone like him has to get to where he has, so that at one point, in one isolated incident, in one season, he'll do the celebration.

00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.060
 But we adopt that, and then we do it everywhere, and we've not actually even earned it.

00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.780
 And so what Paul is saying here, you remember what I was like.

00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:21.440
 You know, you saw me work hard.

00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:23.740
 I wasn't just a flash in the pan.

00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:25.740
 You weren't just following me on social media.

00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:27.759
 We lived together.

00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:29.960
 You saw how I did life.

00:22:32.299 --> 00:22:39.920
 I'm at a stage in my life now, by God's grace, where maybe some of the biggest sins of years past have now gone, by God's grace.

00:22:40.299 --> 00:22:45.980
 So I'm fairly comfortable, if you were to walk into my life, if you were to walk into my house, if you were to take my phone and unlock my phone,

00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:51.099
 there would be nothing that you would find that would be untoward or make you feel uncomfortable.

00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:54.019
 And by God's grace, that's where I'm at.

00:22:54.439 --> 00:22:59.579
 But as we become leaders, the goal is not just to stay there where, hey, I'm avoiding some of the biggest sins.

00:23:00.299 --> 00:23:03.759
 As I become a leader, as I grow as a leader, my prayer is this.

00:23:03.819 --> 00:23:06.259
 Jesus, can I be more and more like you?

00:23:06.399 --> 00:23:11.619
 So it's not those so-called big sins, the usual sins that people are looking for anymore.

00:23:11.859 --> 00:23:15.839
 Now it's me looking at myself going, why did you respond like that in a meeting?

00:23:17.439 --> 00:23:20.559
 It's that someone said something, and you took it personally, but it wasn't even personal.

00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:25.279
 So it's got to that stage for me, and I'm like, God, keep molding me.

00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:26.339
 Keep working me.

00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:28.419
 I'm still falling short of that.

00:23:28.939 --> 00:23:34.339
 And as I watch all these leaders from afar, and actually something that Aaron and I discussed at length about as this,

00:23:34.659 --> 00:23:40.119
 which is actually those leaders, whether in the church or outside of the church, they don't set off to aim there.

00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:44.199
 You don't start a church and go, hey, I'm going to start this church.

00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.700
 It's going to be supremely successful, and I'm going to go out with a bang in 20 years' time,

00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:53.100
 and they're going to find out about how I use my money for that church, for my personal gain, and that's how I'm going to leave.

00:23:53.580 --> 00:23:57.340
 No one starts that way, but somehow we end up there.

00:23:58.080 --> 00:23:59.360
 Somehow they end up there.

00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:06.779
 And as I've shared with you, as a young leader, as a young minister, that's the thing that I'm guarding myself the most with.

00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:14.599
 And this is where I actually, I don't want to just talk myself, because when we're talking about this, the word we're really talking about is accountability.

00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:17.720
 So the question I have for you is this.

00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:23.259
 Wherever you are, and actually even if you do have some of the big sins in your life that you're like, oh, I still can't shake it.

00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:23.920
 It's still there.

00:24:25.399 --> 00:24:26.519
 No one can check my phone.

00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:29.079
 I want to tell you there's grace.

00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:30.940
 There's grace.

00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:35.039
 There's a place where you can actually, and I pray that you will have a community, have a people around you,

00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.460
 who even if they were to know about these things, they would just show you love.

00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:39.940
 They would just show you grace.

00:24:40.639 --> 00:24:42.779
 That they won't condemn you, but they will call you higher.

00:24:43.899 --> 00:24:46.980
 And I wanted to share today, and I want to actually invite some of my friends up,

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:51.519
 who actually I've felt very, very grateful for.

00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.920
 And it's what we call in the form of an accountability group.

00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:58.339
 And as I bring them up, I want to ask you to reflect, well, who are your people?

00:24:59.639 --> 00:25:03.379
 If you are going down a route that's not good for you, that's not healthy for you,

00:25:03.380 --> 00:25:06.540
 who's going to pluck you out and go, hey, I see where you're going.

00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:07.940
 We've been here.

00:25:09.560 --> 00:25:10.320
 Snap out of it.

00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:11.560
 Whatever it might be.

00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:12.480
 Do you have those people?

00:25:12.600 --> 00:25:16.980
 And so for me, I'm really excited to introduce, none of these are new people,

00:25:17.060 --> 00:25:20.700
 so I'd love to invite Alex, Sam, and Aaron to come up.

00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:21.860
 Can we grab those stools, please?

00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:27.200
 Now, again, this is a little bit awkward.

00:25:27.320 --> 00:25:29.100
 So some of you are going to see backs to some people.

00:25:29.659 --> 00:25:34.299
 So it's just going to be completely based on luck, whether you draw this short straw

00:25:34.299 --> 00:25:36.699
 and which good-looking man you get to see.

00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.059
 Actually, my brother would have been part of this, but he's helping out with kids.

00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:47.279
 Can I grab one more stool?

00:25:48.639 --> 00:25:49.779
 Or I guess I can just stand.

00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:50.379
 That's okay, too.

00:25:51.899 --> 00:25:53.319
 I wanted to bring these people up.

00:25:53.439 --> 00:25:55.539
 One, because I know that you get sick of hearing my voice.

00:25:55.539 --> 00:25:56.299
 That's one thing.

00:25:56.740 --> 00:26:03.000
 And two, it's very hard for me to talk about me as a leader and as talking about accountability

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.399
 and just doing it by myself.

00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:08.879
 Why don't I just bring the guys that I do life with to talk about it together?

00:26:09.220 --> 00:26:10.420
 Again, so usually we're at five.

00:26:10.539 --> 00:26:11.879
 We actually only met on Friday.

00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:15.819
 And we go through a set of questions, seven questions, in fact, that talk about the different

00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:18.500
 things that really just tackle the heart.

00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:19.759
 Have you spent time with the Lord?

00:26:19.859 --> 00:26:21.639
 Are you using your money wisely?

00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.600
 Have you been exposed to inappropriate encounters or explicit content?

00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:26.820
 We talk about those things.

00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:30.600
 And have we invested in our wives and our kids properly?

00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:32.800
 And so we go through these questions and we answer them.

00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:35.740
 And then at the very end, we ask, have you lied about any of the above?

00:26:36.740 --> 00:26:40.180
 Because just to give you a final chance before you're condemned.

00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:45.100
 And honestly, sometimes it's awkward.

00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:46.080
 It's like, here we go again.

00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:51.339
 And sometimes someone just has something to say, you know what, like, what am I here

00:26:51.339 --> 00:26:52.299
 for if I'm not going to tell the truth?

00:26:53.379 --> 00:26:56.599
 And we know we need each other, that we are formed through relationship.

00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:57.819
 So maybe just to start off.

00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.319
 And again, I've had the pleasure of just getting to know these people.

00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:04.859
 And some questions I briefed them about, but there's one or two that actually I'm going

00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:08.220
 to just throw at them as a curveball just to see what their response is.

00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:10.980
 And just so you know that it's not crafted either way anyway.

00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:15.940
 But Aaron, you and I have talked actually a lot about, I mean, you were a pastor as well,

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.420
 and of course you're from the West.

00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:22.299
 I'll help you out and say you're not from the US of A, you're from Canada.

00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.680
 But of course, so you're friendly and kind and nice.

00:27:29.259 --> 00:27:31.380
 Sorry, sorry.

00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:32.660
 You say sorry all the time.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.120
 And we've processed this.

00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:40.099
 When you look at church leadership and you watch how they're just falling like flies,

00:27:40.099 --> 00:27:41.159
 what goes through your mind?

00:27:43.459 --> 00:27:46.939
 I think one you mentioned is that they don't start out that way.

00:27:47.159 --> 00:27:51.319
 Like it's not their heart or their desire that they want to fall.

00:27:52.539 --> 00:27:56.379
 And so then the question comes to mind is sort of when does it start?

00:27:56.500 --> 00:28:02.079
 And I think the majority of those who it's become public, it's actually been like a 20,

00:28:02.219 --> 00:28:04.059
 30, 40 year journey.

00:28:04.219 --> 00:28:07.799
 It's not even like it happened once in the last year.

00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.759
 Or it's actually been a pattern in their life that has happened for a long time.

00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:15.740
 And so then I ask myself if it's been a pattern in their life for so long,

00:28:17.159 --> 00:28:20.619
 they must not have had people around them who they were talking to,

00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:21.960
 who they were being open with,

00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:26.500
 who they were allowing to ask the hard questions and being honest with themselves with.

00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:31.019
 And so I think it actually starts a long time before they become well known.

00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:37.000
 And then when you become well known, it becomes all about you and maybe not about God in a lot of ways anymore.

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:39.319
 And then it's hard to be open with others.

00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.799
 And there's this completely terrible mindset that people have when,

00:28:43.879 --> 00:28:46.759
 let's say, let's stay on church leadership for now,

00:28:47.299 --> 00:28:50.019
 where someone starts something, someone leads something,

00:28:50.019 --> 00:28:53.579
 and then they're lifted up onto a pedestal and everything seems to be about them.

00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:55.319
 And so they get lifted up.

00:28:55.819 --> 00:29:01.319
 And then, of course, all the attention, all the positive flattery that people get.

00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:07.039
 And then, of course, the moment they fall, we all kind of turn and point our fingers to them as well.

00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.920
 It goes, ah, I knew it all along and those kind of things.

00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:16.139
 Honestly, as a leader yourself and as you're observing these and seeing these,

00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:22.180
 what goes through your mind when it comes to actually how a church should even relate to or even follow a leader?

00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:29.200
 I think maybe just adding on to what Aaron was sharing about how kind of leaders kind of build this platform

00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:31.700
 and then kind of be uplifted.

00:29:31.820 --> 00:29:33.640
 I think maybe just a bit of context.

00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:40.000
 Yes, I am from the great United States of America and the land of mega churches, a.k.a. Texas.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:40.780
 We forgive you.

00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:44.420
 So I'm very familiar with kind of the American church landscape.

00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:48.080
 And, I mean, honestly, when you talk about kind of these leaders rising and falling,

00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:52.620
 I think for me, like, I'm honestly, like, not surprised anymore.

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:57.700
 I would say probably, like, a big part of my faith journey in the last four years

00:29:57.700 --> 00:30:01.600
 has probably just been learning how to grapple with the disappointment in the American church.

00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:06.860
 And I hope you hear that from a place of because I love the church, which is why I'm so disappointed in the church.

00:30:08.019 --> 00:30:10.480
 And I'll kind of get to how that relates to what Aaron was sharing.

00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:15.660
 But I think especially in the last four years, there are definitely people, I mean, I know it happens everywhere in the world,

00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:21.920
 but especially in America, people who are on the margins, you know, in a very, you know, COVID was hard.

00:30:22.299 --> 00:30:26.000
 There were a lot of racial and justice and equity issues at the time in the U.S.

00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:30.059
 And I think the church's response was to kind of turn a blind eye to that.

00:30:30.500 --> 00:30:32.900
 They instead were like, you know, we're going to keep doing our programs.

00:30:32.900 --> 00:30:34.960
 We're going to keep building up our institution.

00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:39.240
 And by institution, I mean, you know, like the church being kind of like an organization.

00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:45.160
 Their heart was more for that rather than actually being the church and, you know, going outside the four walls,

00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:49.900
 loving people who are different than them, whether in race or socioeconomic status.

00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:56.519
 And I think a large part of that is actually what has also kind of platformed, you know, certain leaders further,

00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:03.200
 because a lot of leaders, they probably didn't try to, like, you know, build their own little kind of step stool upwards.

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:10.519
 It probably happened through the ground underneath them being kind of their church institution growing and ballooning in a way so much

00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:13.920
 that it was no longer about, you know, what God's heart and mission was.

00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:19.380
 And I think as a result, as you know, the pastor's seat usually got a lot larger, a lot higher as a result of that.

00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:20.900
 So that's kind of been my experience.

00:31:21.539 --> 00:31:24.380
 And as we were even talking about this on Friday, one of the things that you said was,

00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:29.500
 actually, I don't know how much people care about the American church or the Western church here in Hong Kong.

00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:35.200
 And I was like, yeah, maybe they don't, maybe they're not critiquing the leadership and the scandals in quite the same way,

00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:36.460
 or maybe it's just too far away.

00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:39.259
 But it brought me to another thought.

00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:43.759
 But I think sometimes maybe over here in the Eastern culture, there is so much reverence and so much deference

00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:48.700
 and so much submission to the pastor that actually it's the other way that I want to address.

00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:50.279
 Hey, don't just look at me.

00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:52.180
 Don't just follow me blindly.

00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:55.599
 Actually, there's only one person you should follow, and it's not me.

00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:55.899
 Right.

00:31:56.339 --> 00:32:01.740
 And actually, just to challenge even actually what our perception or what our approach to following church leadership is

00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:05.299
 and who is the leader that we're following, I think is something that's worth bringing up, right?

00:32:05.639 --> 00:32:07.879
 And just to add to that point, that's a really good point.

00:32:08.619 --> 00:32:12.059
 And James knows this because I've shared this very bluntly and directly with him,

00:32:12.099 --> 00:32:15.459
 which is I don't come to the church or I lead in the church because of James.

00:32:15.459 --> 00:32:18.599
 Like James and his wife, they married us.

00:32:18.639 --> 00:32:19.339
 They've walked with us.

00:32:19.459 --> 00:32:20.519
 We love them to death.

00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:26.220
 But I've told him explicitly I'm here to know Jesus more, like whether it's at another church or elsewhere.

00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:27.639
 I know James will be happy for me.

00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:29.700
 So, yeah, I would encourage everyone the same.

00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.599
 Like if there's any sort of blind spots in terms of, oh, I just go to the church because I love the preaching

00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.519
 and I love the worship, maybe to just test your heart in terms of, you know,

00:32:38.539 --> 00:32:41.900
 are there certain parts of the institution that you've prioritized over God?

00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:42.299
 Yeah.

00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:44.359
 Sam, what thoughts do you have?

00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:47.720
 Yeah.

00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:49.160
 I'm not American.

00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:54.259
 I do pay attention to what's going on with America.

00:32:54.540 --> 00:32:59.620
 So as James was mentioning and I saw nods going on, like I'm one of the nods.

00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:01.600
 I recognize those people.

00:33:01.940 --> 00:33:07.300
 And I think, you know, all the music that we sing, a lot of it comes out of the megachurches of the U.S.

00:33:07.300 --> 00:33:14.320
 So, you know, like we do need to test, put the test and use discernment, right?

00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:23.399
 And so as we, you know, we sing the music and we trace it back to its source, it's important for us to kind of keep our thumb on what's going on.

00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:31.099
 And just a pattern I recognize in a lot of megachurches is there's no accountability for the pastor.

00:33:31.099 --> 00:33:34.879
 Oftentimes, there might not be an elder board.

00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:40.779
 It's a group of advisors to that pastor made up of other megachurch pastors, right?

00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:49.579
 And so in a recent megachurch failure in the U.S., just someone else from another megachurch was just brought in to stand in for the pastor.

00:33:49.579 --> 00:33:55.000
 So there's just really no local community and accountability for those pastors.

00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:01.779
 And maybe just another note, yeah, just hearing that the charisma of the person often outpaces the character.

00:34:02.639 --> 00:34:04.759
 And really, that is an issue, right?

00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:06.079
 God gives us gifts.

00:34:07.139 --> 00:34:16.579
 But the refining, the seasons of being tested, sometimes they miss out on that entirely because they just get platformed.

00:34:16.980 --> 00:34:18.420
 Yeah, some thoughts that came to my head.

00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:18.639
 Yeah.

00:34:18.980 --> 00:34:19.559
 No, thank you.

00:34:19.940 --> 00:34:25.159
 And so we have an accountability group, the Fivers, and we seek to meet regularly to ask these questions.

00:34:26.739 --> 00:34:28.000
 This is where I'm going to put them on the spot.

00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:31.699
 I wrestled with even asking them this question because I also don't want to make it about me.

00:34:32.299 --> 00:34:33.139
 That's the last thing I want.

00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:35.299
 I was like, oh, let's just have them all share what they think is bad about me.

00:34:35.579 --> 00:34:37.380
 But then you're not here for that.

00:34:38.380 --> 00:34:44.219
 But what I wanted to ask them, actually, is maybe you don't all need to rush and point out all my weaknesses.

00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:53.959
 But when we're meeting as a group or maybe when you're hearing me speak as a leader here, what are you looking out for?

00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:58.639
 Well, what are the things that you know that I'm most prone to that you're most sensitive to?

00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:03.480
 You're like, OK, I need to hold James to that because I know that's his weak spot.

00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:05.740
 And I'm going to kind of keep propping up in there.

00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:06.579
 I mean, Alex, you're nodding.

00:35:06.579 --> 00:35:09.219
 So maybe you have something very sharp to say.

00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:13.119
 I'm nodding and just notice the direction of my eyesight right now.

00:35:13.259 --> 00:35:17.960
 It's usually about how James spends his money is usually the question I ask him.

00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:21.199
 Maybe just give some insight into our accountability group.

00:35:21.299 --> 00:35:24.059
 One of the questions is, have I honored God with my money this week?

00:35:25.099 --> 00:35:29.699
 And James said something interesting this week, which was, I think, I hope you don't mind me sharing.

00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:30.739
 You know, I think I have.

00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:33.639
 Like, you know, I think I didn't cross the border.

00:35:33.799 --> 00:35:34.980
 I'm like, well, what's the border?

00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:38.760
 Or, you know, do you and it's asking real questions where it's like, well, do you budget?

00:35:39.240 --> 00:35:42.900
 You know, I asked that from a place of admittedly me and my wife do not budget.

00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.599
 But all the other guys, Sam, Joe and Aaron, all their families do budget.

00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:52.019
 So there is like this aspect of knowing that's kind of James is quote unquote like weak spot.

00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:55.679
 But knowing there's brothers who have strength in that area and we can glean from it.

00:35:55.740 --> 00:36:01.500
 I think maybe for me it's not a weak spot, but it's more of like, oh, I don't I haven't focused on strengthening that muscle enough.

00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:05.619
 So I really appreciate hearing from Aaron, from Sam, from Joe about how they they budget.

00:36:05.780 --> 00:36:12.440
 Sam has a freaking spreadsheet where he literally he puts in every single transaction that he makes every month.

00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:14.420
 So I just love like learning from these brothers.

00:36:14.420 --> 00:36:17.659
 And I hope, yeah, I'm sure it's a benefit to you as well.

00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:18.840
 For sure.

00:36:19.099 --> 00:36:28.019
 I mean, my love for shoes and Jordan's is well documented and has been has been a stronghold in my life for for many years since I worked at Fort Locker when I was a teenager.

00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:30.079
 Terrible, terrible habits that were built there.

00:36:30.240 --> 00:36:31.539
 I basically didn't need a paycheck.

00:36:31.740 --> 00:36:32.820
 They just kept giving me shoes.

00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:35.200
 But it's something.

00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.360
 And so when I'm like and I'll tell you something this and I'm all about just sharing here.

00:36:39.820 --> 00:36:44.480
 When I get stressed, when I'm like, oh, just flustered or tired.

00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:45.840
 Like I'm on Amazon.

00:36:46.300 --> 00:36:48.480
 Like I'm just like, what do I need to buy?

00:36:49.080 --> 00:36:52.240
 Well, like what kind of new charger do I need to buy?

00:36:52.539 --> 00:36:55.720
 But maybe it's like a four in one that I can kind of charge all my devices in one.

00:36:55.720 --> 00:36:58.960
 Like and then it'll come and the Amazon package will come.

00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:00.240
 And my wife is like, what is that?

00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:05.319
 And it's just a USB C one, two, three thing.

00:37:05.459 --> 00:37:06.259
 And it's amazing.

00:37:07.459 --> 00:37:08.359
 So that's something.

00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:09.239
 But I have this.

00:37:09.339 --> 00:37:11.379
 I'm like, OK, I know.

00:37:11.479 --> 00:37:12.979
 I know they're going to be asking me this question.

00:37:13.359 --> 00:37:17.259
 So I need to be able to actually put my hand on my heart and go, hey, what is this?

00:37:17.539 --> 00:37:21.119
 Aaron, I know that you Aaron is a super caring kind of person.

00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:24.219
 And what are you looking out for as we even as you're talking to me, as you're asking questions?

00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:26.419
 What are some of the things that you're looking out for?

00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:29.500
 Yeah, I think I was.

00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.500
 I think there's a couple of things.

00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:36.900
 I think the caring one is a big one.

00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:41.139
 I think I'm also a little bit unique in where we work together.

00:37:41.380 --> 00:37:44.099
 So you're my boss and my pastor and friend.

00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:49.239
 And so I think I see you in many aspects of life.

00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.400
 And so I think even in the way.

00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:54.440
 Yeah, I think personal relationship.

00:37:54.860 --> 00:37:59.000
 I think leading those that are harder to lead.

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:01.940
 And not.

00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:13.460
 Yeah, leading those who are harder to lead and having patience and grace and being willing to walk with them and help them grow in their journey.

00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:14.579
 And not.

00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:16.639
 Yeah.

00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:17.960
 And having patience for that.

00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:20.659
 I think I don't have patience for that personally.

00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:23.360
 Sometimes I just want to keep going.

00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:26.720
 But I also know we're all on growth journeys.

00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:29.620
 And so I think the caring side and the patient side.

00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:31.960
 And then our kids are the same age.

00:38:32.019 --> 00:38:45.860
 And so I think family side, especially just for us, seeing how we walk with our kids through puberty and growth and bullying and like kids caring for each other and stuff like that.

00:38:45.860 --> 00:38:49.340
 Having that is important.

00:38:50.059 --> 00:38:50.960
 He's so caring.

00:38:51.180 --> 00:39:04.099
 And something that I've always said and I've actually learned to reflect over in my conversations with these men is actually I'll know the state of my own soul in how I respond to criticism and compliments.

00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:11.220
 Like either of those will expose me to my heart going, oh, wow, you really soaked in that compliment right there.

00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:16.299
 Like, oh, that complaint crushed you to a point where it should not have crushed you.

00:39:16.959 --> 00:39:20.039
 And I'll be like, and that's when these men around me are like, oh, yeah, that shouldn't have crushed you.

00:39:20.399 --> 00:39:21.199
 You're being a jerk.

00:39:22.059 --> 00:39:24.039
 You're not being patient enough and those kind of things.

00:39:24.419 --> 00:39:26.919
 So it's having this kind of setup is helpful for me.

00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:27.519
 Final question.

00:39:27.659 --> 00:39:28.739
 Final thought, Sam.

00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:46.239
 I think my mind just goes back to I don't know how long ago, but I think before the accountability group, I think I had asked you like what accountability for you look like and what what support look like for you.

00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:57.119
 And so I think at that time, maybe that wasn't built in a very disciplined way of meeting with some other guys.

00:39:57.879 --> 00:40:02.939
 But but yeah, I think I think that's that's what I just cared about in general.

00:40:02.939 --> 00:40:10.000
 But yeah, like Alex notices the desire for comfort and that's the word comfort is something you've used, I think, many times.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:13.480
 And I think we're all susceptible to that.

00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:19.820
 But as you say, it's important that we are able not to just just, you know, slap you on the back and say, like, oh, you're doing great.

00:40:19.820 --> 00:40:28.840
 But actually just be happy to have the the equity to be able to call you out really relational equity to call you out and say, hey, yeah, let's let's talk about this.

00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:30.440
 Appreciate you.

00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:32.679
 And again, absolutely enough about me.

00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:33.519
 Hear me loud and clear.

00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:34.219
 This is not about me.

00:40:34.340 --> 00:40:35.559
 This is about all of us.

00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:39.380
 Do we and all of us are in different leadership roles in some way.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:41.500
 The question is, do you have accountability?

00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:46.179
 Do you have people who will ask you, hey, your motives, your heart, your methods, where are you at?

00:40:46.460 --> 00:40:47.420
 Because I think it's so important.

00:40:47.500 --> 00:40:48.539
 I think that's how we grow.

00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:50.840
 That's that's the iron sharpening iron part.

00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:52.159
 So thank you.

00:40:52.300 --> 00:40:54.900
 Thank you, Manfa, just even just coming up and being willing to share about that.

00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:56.000
 So I appreciate you.

00:40:56.019 --> 00:40:56.860
 Can we give them a round of applause?

00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:06.860
 We need people.

00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:08.300
 I need people.

00:41:08.420 --> 00:41:09.019
 You need people.

00:41:09.019 --> 00:41:09.059
 People.

00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:10.659
 Introverts need people.

00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:12.199
 Perfect people.

00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:14.639
 You don't exist, but you need people, too.

00:41:15.380 --> 00:41:19.500
 The question is, do you have those kinds of people around you who actually, if they were to.

00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:25.199
 Do you have anyone to go, hey, you remember when we were together and we lived life and did this?

00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:26.559
 I think it's so important.

00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:32.679
 And this isn't just to bring out judgment and it isn't to bring out shame, but it is to have that accountability because we know that's how we grow.

00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:36.259
 Growth is formed through relationship.

00:41:36.260 --> 00:41:38.460
 You can't grow on your own, unfortunately.

00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:39.440
 That is the key.

00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:40.540
 And it's hard.

00:41:41.080 --> 00:41:44.360
 It is so hard because we're not just battling against ourselves.

00:41:45.560 --> 00:41:46.660
 I need you to hear this.

00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:52.180
 Your battle that you're facing, yes, is your flesh and your sin and your selfishness.

00:41:52.179 --> 00:41:56.039
 But there is also another power at play, which makes it super hard.

00:41:56.940 --> 00:42:01.779
 And it says about Ephesians 6 that it's actually we're not battling against flesh and blood only.

00:42:02.339 --> 00:42:03.739
 There is something even more.

00:42:03.819 --> 00:42:08.779
 And you see here in chapter 2 towards the end here, Paul's like, I've just wanted to come back to you.

00:42:09.099 --> 00:42:10.279
 I really, really have.

00:42:10.339 --> 00:42:11.779
 I've just wanted to spend time with you.

00:42:11.780 --> 00:42:17.220
 But, and he says it just almost so casually, verse 18, because he wanted to come to you, I, Paul, again and again.

00:42:17.660 --> 00:42:18.680
 I wanted to come to you.

00:42:19.460 --> 00:42:20.440
 But Satan hindered us.

00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:22.400
 But Satan hindered us.

00:42:22.940 --> 00:42:24.500
 There is an enemy at play here.

00:42:24.680 --> 00:42:31.800
 So when you are alone and when you are fighting some of those temptations, beware that it's not just you fighting against yourself, but there is something else.

00:42:31.860 --> 00:42:33.380
 There is a power that is happening.

00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:36.240
 Ephesians 2 talks about the prince of the power of the air.

00:42:36.940 --> 00:42:39.620
 2 Corinthians 4, 4 talks about the God of this world.

00:42:39.619 --> 00:42:46.839
 Right now we live in a place where the enemy has influence over us and tries to deceive us.

00:42:47.739 --> 00:42:49.019
 The question is, are you God?

00:42:49.099 --> 00:42:50.880
 And that's why we need people around us.

00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:56.239
 My dad used to say, and he quoted Richard Branson, who I think quoted someone else, which is, you don't know what you don't know.

00:42:57.739 --> 00:43:00.000
 And it's by definition, you don't know when you're being deceived.

00:43:00.759 --> 00:43:02.319
 Otherwise you wouldn't be deceived.

00:43:03.219 --> 00:43:09.259
 And so you need people around you who can see your blind spots, who, when you share something with them, you're like, oh, no, no, no, no.

00:43:09.260 --> 00:43:10.460
 That's not exactly what happens.

00:43:10.660 --> 00:43:18.940
 But we, you and I both know, we can get into those places where we look at a circumstance, look at a person, look at a conversation and go, and you twist it to your own narrative.

00:43:19.140 --> 00:43:25.460
 So having people around you just to shine a light, a different light, a different perspective onto what you're facing is so important.

00:43:26.180 --> 00:43:29.560
 Because we're not just battling against ourselves or each other.

00:43:29.700 --> 00:43:32.520
 There is an enemy at play here who is trying to deceive us.

00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:34.300
 So then what hope do we have?

00:43:34.340 --> 00:43:35.460
 And what hope do we have here?

00:43:35.780 --> 00:43:41.440
 Even though there is a prince of the power of the air, even though there is this God, this small g, this small g of this world.

00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:46.320
 The goal is that we remember that, but the victory isn't his.

00:43:47.059 --> 00:43:50.480
 We may be battling against him, but he's already been defeated.

00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:58.280
 And it says here, at the very last verse, for what is our hope or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus that is coming.

00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:08.980
 That crown is a wreath from the Greek culture where the race has been won or the Olympics when you see the wreath placed, the crown placed above someone who has won the race.

00:44:09.420 --> 00:44:10.740
 And so we face this enemy.

00:44:10.940 --> 00:44:15.900
 We face the devil himself, knowing that the battle has already been won.

00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:23.400
 So next time you are alone and you have something going on inside you that, oh man, an imposter syndrome takes over and you're sitting like, you shouldn't be a leader.

00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:24.160
 You shouldn't be this.

00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:28.000
 Then catch it and go, enemy, you have no place here.

00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:29.880
 Flee.

00:44:31.460 --> 00:44:32.400
 Get behind me.

00:44:33.660 --> 00:44:35.320
 No weapon formed against me will prosper.

00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.139
 And you say, this battle has already been won.

00:44:40.220 --> 00:44:41.000
 And yes, you're right.

00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:41.700
 I am weak.

00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:44.340
 And what I should do, I don't do.

00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:45.440
 And what I shouldn't do, I do do.

00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:46.659
 What a wretched man I am.

00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:51.780
 But praise be to God, the Jesus who saves, the Lord Jesus who saves us from our sin.

00:44:53.380 --> 00:44:54.639
 And so the battle is already won.

00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:59.820
 So we can claim victory even in this moment when we're still fighting that battle.

00:45:00.860 --> 00:45:02.200
 And that's the goal that we have.

00:45:02.980 --> 00:45:09.079
 That's the prayer that we have as believers that we would get to this place where we understand that we have that crown.

00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.260
 But maybe final thought here is let's not take that crown lightly.

00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:18.140
 That crown came because he also bore a crown of thorns.

00:45:19.100 --> 00:45:20.820
 That he died for our sin.

00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:29.400
 That sin that you're struggling with right now, Jesus knew about and took it to the cross and paid for that price right there.

00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:34.500
 And that crown of thorns he then swapped for a crown of victory.

00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:37.860
 The one that you have as well now.

00:45:37.860 --> 00:45:40.079
 And so let's get together.

00:45:41.019 --> 00:45:42.280
 Find the people around you.

00:45:43.200 --> 00:45:48.760
 My prayer is that if you finish this time with us here and you reach out to your one, two, three friends.

00:45:48.860 --> 00:45:49.220
 It can't be.

00:45:49.660 --> 00:45:51.960
 Honestly, Hong Kong life and travel and schedules.

00:45:52.340 --> 00:45:56.640
 To even try and get more than three, four people together is hard.

00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:58.619
 But that's all you need.

00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.940
 Two, three, four people go, hey, I need this.

00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:03.960
 Not because there's any deep dark sin in my life.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.440
 Or maybe there is and that's okay as well.

00:46:05.819 --> 00:46:12.519
 But I need this because I need people around to support me, to encourage me, and to hold me accountable.

00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:17.359
 And to keep my eyes pointing, pointing back to the Lord.

00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:20.200
 And that's what we're here for.

00:46:21.340 --> 00:46:24.460
 I want to spend some time now for us to just respond to that.

00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:28.099
 And maybe some will lead us in some music with Florence.

00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:29.760
 But I want to ask you that question.

00:46:31.620 --> 00:46:33.120
 Maybe I'll lead us in a prayer now.

00:46:33.180 --> 00:46:36.880
 So I invite you just to bow your head and close your eyes.

00:46:38.240 --> 00:46:40.500
 And maybe even if you're comfortable, to open up your hands.

00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:44.180
 Just as a sign of openness.

00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:53.420
 The truth is there are some of us here who do have closets that are filled with skeletons.

00:46:58.200 --> 00:47:04.200
 But if someone here trawled through your phone, you'd be so ashamed.

00:47:05.260 --> 00:47:11.780
 Or if they came home and saw how you lived, they would be so disgusted.

00:47:11.780 --> 00:47:18.080
 I just want to pull you from that mindset.

00:47:25.300 --> 00:47:31.140
 Because Jesus, by doing what he did, what he really is doing, he's come right up to you.

00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:33.920
 Where you are in your darkest place.

00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:41.480
 Where you have committed the worst things that you have done.

00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:54.960
 And maybe still with that crown of thorns on his head, he says,

00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:58.760
 Don't worry.

00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:01.720
 I've dealt with it.

00:48:03.260 --> 00:48:03.840
 For you.

00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:08.480
 There's no need to be ashamed.

00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:12.500
 Don't hold on to this darkness.

00:48:12.500 --> 00:48:19.320
 I'm the light of the world.

00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:25.420
 Whoever follows me will walk in light and not darkness.

00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:33.000
 And he says to us, I'm gracious and compassionate.

00:48:36.460 --> 00:48:37.480
 I'm not even angry.

00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:37.480


00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:37.480


00:48:42.500 --> 00:48:44.280
 I have abounding love for you.

00:48:46.619 --> 00:48:48.719
 I'm relenting from disaster and punishment.

00:48:51.099 --> 00:48:52.360
 And so would you let him in?

00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:54.780
 Even into that deepest, darkest room?

00:48:59.119 --> 00:48:59.940
 Invite him in.

00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:10.239
 And my second thought is, once you've invited him in,

00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:11.940
 would you also invite some friends in?

00:49:12.500 --> 00:49:20.960
 Friends who love you.

00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:26.320
 Despite your flaws.

00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:33.699
 Friends who will challenge you when you need to.

00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:37.820
 Can you ask the Holy Spirit now, who are those people?

00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:40.360
 And if you have names popping up in your mind, remember them.

00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:41.480
 Reach out to them.

00:49:42.500 --> 00:49:55.260
 Let us let him in.

00:49:58.500 --> 00:49:59.500
 Let us let them in.

00:49:59.500 --> 00:50:00.500
 let them in.

00:50:07.780 --> 00:50:08.739
 You're the only leader.

00:50:08.780 --> 00:50:12.000
 You're the only one who is good.

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.440
 and so we follow you

00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:18.800
 we imitate you

00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:25.659
 we look to you, we trust you

00:50:25.659 --> 00:50:27.579
 we worship you

00:50:27.579 --> 00:50:29.340
 we love you

00:50:29.340 --> 00:50:31.440
 in your name we pray

00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:33.460
 Amen