WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.860 Well, good evening everybody. It is wonderful to be with you this evening. 00:00:06.020 --> 00:00:11.000 Yeah, it's the first time that I've actually really been here to the church, so I'm a guest 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:16.000 here this evening and it is very good to be with you. If you are a guest yourself, then, well, 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:22.039 I suppose welcome on behalf of the church. As you can tell, I'm not really from around these 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:28.120 parts. I'm from a little bit further south in South Africa and so I've been celebrating 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:33.240 the rugby very much lately. For those of you, if there are any Welsh people in the audience, 00:00:33.420 --> 00:00:40.460 I apologize on behalf of the rugby team. But it is wonderful to be with you this evening. 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:47.020 So what I'm going to do, I just want to tee things up before I leap in. I will be throwing 00:00:47.020 --> 00:00:53.240 a couple of verses out near the end, but what I want to do is give you a taste of what I do 00:00:53.240 --> 00:01:00.120 when I go out and engage, especially on university campuses or if churches are putting on events 00:01:00.120 --> 00:01:05.260 where we want to try and show people who are guests, people who maybe don't have a faith, 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:12.680 who aren't followers of Jesus, to really show how faith makes sense of things better than 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:20.579 other worldviews and better than any other religion. So as I do that, the framework that I use for doing 00:01:20.579 --> 00:01:27.379 that is initially to really identify with people. So it's identification. What is it that we're 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:34.400 actually speaking about? And then from there, move on to basically show persuasion. What do the 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:39.159 other worldviews say about these things? How do they make sense of this kind of question? 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:45.459 And then the invitation, which is what does Christianity have to say about this? What does the Bible say? 00:01:45.980 --> 00:01:50.519 So it might feel slightly different. I'm not going to give you a grand expository sermon, 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:56.259 on this topic, because we could do that for several weeks. But as was mentioned, I work for a ministry 00:01:56.259 --> 00:02:01.819 called SOLAS, the SOLAS Center for Public Christianity. And so what we do is really go 00:02:01.819 --> 00:02:07.280 and look at some of these big questions. And then as we'll look at tonight, say, okay, well, how do we 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:12.620 actually make sense of this? Does that sound good? Cool. I'm going to hand over to you guys. It'll be 00:02:12.620 --> 00:02:16.259 slightly interactive. I'll give you some time for discussion in a couple of moments. 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:22.679 But yeah, this is our topic for the evening. Have you ever wondered why the environment matters? 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:30.859 Does it matter? I mean, it's one of the things that's in the headlines all the time. It's really 00:02:30.859 --> 00:02:38.219 sort of a tester, if you will, to see sort of where you are on the moral scale. Do you love the 00:02:38.219 --> 00:02:42.959 environment and do you have several recycling bins or not really? And then you kind of lower down. 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:51.420 But I actually, I haven't always been doing this kind of ministry. I started my studies in the 00:02:51.420 --> 00:02:59.520 sciences. But even way before that, you know, being South African, I would go on these holidays out into 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:04.480 the South African bush felt. And you'd spend the nights in the tent, spend a couple of nights in the 00:03:04.480 --> 00:03:11.400 tent. And you look up at the African night sky, and it is just amazing. The stars, I mean, if there's no 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:18.120 light pollution, and you've gone far enough out, it is just absolutely amazing. And so I remember as a 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:24.659 young boy, and even as a teenager, just lying there under the stars and being swept up in the sense of 00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:32.560 amazement and awe and the sense of wonder. And as I did that, the sense of tininess in me just grew. 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:38.680 And I always wondered, oh, man, where does this come from? What is this? What is my point, you know, 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:44.780 the world? It was really something that grew and grew and grew every time I did. And so from very 00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:50.099 early on, I always sort of wondered about the natural world, because it seemed to me drawing me 00:03:50.099 --> 00:03:54.719 to something much bigger than myself. I don't know if you've maybe experienced the same kind of thing. 00:03:54.879 --> 00:04:01.400 Maybe it's the stars, or maybe it's something else. But very much to me, it was that. And, you know, 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:07.159 then I spent a lot of time looking or watching at National Geographic and Discovery Channel, 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:13.659 as you can see there. And I was just absolutely fascinated with the natural world. When you start 00:04:13.659 --> 00:04:20.980 to dig into it, and you see the amazing complexity of the world, and the interactions that go on between 00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:27.180 different kinds of animals, and just the way that the climate is set up, everything is just so 00:04:27.180 --> 00:04:35.480 perfectly designed, it seems. Or, well, to me, it points to a designer in many, many ways. And so 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:44.180 this sense just kind of grew in me as I, you know, as a teenager watched Discovery and National Geographic 00:04:44.180 --> 00:04:52.579 and looked up at the stars. And that really followed me as I went then on to university. So I studied at 00:04:52.579 --> 00:05:00.459 the University of Johannesburg for several years. I ended up doing a master's degree in zoology, and then went on 00:05:00.459 --> 00:05:08.519 to environmental ecotoxicology. And I worked in that realm for many, many years. I actually went to work on the 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:16.759 coast in South Africa for around about three years in like a marine biology consultancy. And it was my love of the 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:22.560 environment, my love of nature that drove me to that. It drove me to study the natural world more. It drove me to 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:28.439 work in that world because I wanted to make a difference, right? Because I cared for the environment. 00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:33.620 And thought, well, you know, let's preserve this thing. I want to make a difference and make it better, 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:43.100 right? And one of my favorite guys, I remember, as I was, you know, studying, but even when I used to 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:48.759 watch National Geographic and Discovery and all that, was David Attenborough. I'm sure you guys will know 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:54.199 David Attenborough. And he seems to share, obviously, the sense of all-white nature. He says, 00:05:54.319 --> 00:06:00.120 it seems to me that the natural world is the greatest source of excitement, the greatest source 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:07.779 of visual beauty, the greatest source of intellectual interest. It is the greatest source of so much in 00:06:07.779 --> 00:06:14.420 life that makes life worth living. And I agree with that sentiment in so many ways. I mean, 00:06:14.420 --> 00:06:20.420 he's not a Christian as far as I understand. He's an atheist. But he looks at the natural world. He 00:06:20.420 --> 00:06:26.319 looks at the beauty of all of it. And he exclaims what he does there. And he's basically saying, 00:06:26.780 --> 00:06:35.700 wow, this is amazing, right? And at the same time, he also says, the fact is that no species has ever 00:06:35.700 --> 00:06:41.200 had such a wholesale control over everything on earth, talking about humans, living or dead, 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:48.659 as we have now. And that lays upon us, whether we like it or not, an awesome responsibility. 00:06:49.539 --> 00:06:57.339 In our hands now lies not only our future, but that of all other living creatures with whom we share 00:06:57.339 --> 00:07:04.480 the earth. So what he's doing there, and this is interesting to me, as someone who doesn't believe 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:12.160 in God, he looks at the natural world and has this, wow, look at this. This is beautiful. This is amazing. 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:18.879 To me, that's part of the human condition. This is how we're wired. We're part of the created order. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:24.700 And so we resonate with the beauty of the world. And so he's pulling on that, right? But then as someone 00:07:24.700 --> 00:07:31.379 who doesn't believe in God, he also makes this statement up there. And essentially, he's saying, 00:07:31.379 --> 00:07:39.219 there's also a moral dimension. We have a moral injunction, as it were, to look after this thing. 00:07:39.980 --> 00:07:49.740 And that, to me, raises a question. If there is no God, and the natural world is just what it is by the 00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:57.060 sort of chance forces, chance physical forces of physical matter, that's all it would reduce to, 00:07:57.060 --> 00:08:03.860 then, well, why the moral aspect of it? Where does that come from? How is that justified? What is the 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:10.980 basis for that? Interesting question. So with that in mind, I'm going to hand over to you for just 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:16.860 five minutes or so, if that, to chat about these two things. First, what aspect of the environment 00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:23.360 brings you a sense of wonder and joy? I hope there would be some aspect of it. You don't look at it and 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:29.800 be like, this is boring. Number two, do we have a moral responsibility to protect the environment? 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:37.620 That is the question. And if we do, why? Okay, why? Because that's the way it's framed in sort of the 00:08:37.620 --> 00:08:43.279 world at large, be it secular or religious people. It seems that we were coming at this and saying, 00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:48.720 no, no, we have a moral responsibility. So where does that come from? Or do we actually have one? And 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:53.840 why? So let me hand over to you for just sort of four or five minutes, chat amongst yourselves, 00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:56.620 chat to each other, and then we will carry on. 00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:05.220 All righty, let's bring those little conversations to a close. I'm going to give you another chance to 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:16.360 chat near the end. All righty. So I hope that that at least gets you thinking. And I should have maybe 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:23.060 preface the second question with, or at least put it on the front there, if there was no God, you know, 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:30.680 how do we justify, you know, this moral responsibility? You know, if there is no God, where does it come from? 00:09:32.019 --> 00:09:39.060 So, as I say, I studied in the sciences, worked in the sciences, environmental sort of protection, 00:09:39.059 --> 00:09:46.059 that arena of things for many years. But I remember, I mean, just as an aside, when I was 00:09:46.059 --> 00:09:52.759 studying, I became a Christian in my, really kind of somewhere between my first and third year at university. 00:09:53.219 --> 00:09:58.359 I started going to church a lot more, and my friends started seeing that, hey, I'm not so crazy anymore. 00:09:58.599 --> 00:10:04.479 I'm like, you know, actually being a decent human now. Like, what happened? What changed? 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:09.879 And then I got to have these really good conversations with them about, oh, well, let me tell you about that. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:16.879 But one of the things that really I was confronted with very early on was this idea that, oh, well, 00:10:16.920 --> 00:10:21.980 but, you know, you can't believe in God and be a scientist. You know, these things are at war. 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:29.139 So you might get that as a question, just sort of as an aside. And that is something that I got a lot, 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:33.019 sort of as I was studying in the sciences, but then working in environmental sciences, 00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:37.019 a lot of this idea that, hey, there's the idea of God and the idea of science. 00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:44.559 We, or anyway, I've done an article series this year. So if you go to the SOLUS website and just 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:50.480 search science, there's a article series called Lab Notes from the Faithful, where I've been interviewing 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:56.159 a scientist every month, like a really good scientist who's also a Christian, and they answer this 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:00.759 question. So if you do have that question, head over to the SOLUS website. So I got that kind of 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:07.100 question a lot. But then there was a lady who I worked with at this marine biology consultancy 00:11:07.100 --> 00:11:15.200 that I was at, and she was a veterinarian who was very, very anti any kind of religion, really. 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:20.259 She thought the idea of God is just, you know, complete nonsense. But at the same time as that, 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:26.740 she would say very, very strongly, you know, that we have a moral obligation to take care of 00:11:26.740 --> 00:11:32.100 the environment, right? This is the question we were discussing. She, in many ways, would frame it 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:39.120 this way. And, you know, she was a passionate and enthusiastic environmentalist, a campaigner for 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:45.940 environmentalism in many, many ways. And if you weren't on that kind of page, and as fervent as she 00:11:45.940 --> 00:11:50.379 was, she almost like, you know, she should push you a little bit and say, well, no, it's actually wrong 00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:56.360 to not be as excited about environmentalism as I am. There's this moral injunction on us. There's this 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:05.679 responsibility that we have, this obligation to look after the environment. And I sadly never got to 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:11.700 have many conversations with her about this. But the question is, you know, why should we look after 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:18.539 the environment? Why should we care for the environment? Have you ever wondered why? And so if 00:12:18.539 --> 00:12:24.219 you've come across the blue, have you ever wondered book, which I'm assuming you have seen as you've 00:12:24.219 --> 00:12:33.539 been working through this series, then maybe you've read the chapter on that. But let me give you a 00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:38.559 couple of thoughts from that. And this whole question in general, have you ever wondered why 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:45.779 the environment matters? In the book, there's this story of a colleague of ours. And he has an 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:52.079 encounter with a Greenpeace worker, right, who is trying to, you know, get, do some fundraising for 00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:56.879 Greenpeace, and basically saying, hey, you know, you can get behind looking after the environment if 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:02.539 you just sign up and give some, give some money. But this chap, this friend of ours, he said, well, 00:13:02.839 --> 00:13:09.579 you know, to this guy, why should we care for the environment? And to this Greenpeace guy, it seemed 00:13:09.579 --> 00:13:13.939 like this was a question he hadn't really thought about. And it exposed a little bit of a gap 00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:21.700 in his reasoning, sort of the cultural gap that I think is a good question for us to ask. And so 00:13:21.700 --> 00:13:27.160 what would you say most people would respond with when you say, why should we care for the environment? 00:13:28.460 --> 00:13:36.280 It's a good question. I think most of the time, and this came up as we were chatting, most people, 00:13:36.400 --> 00:13:41.080 when you say, why should we care for the environment? They will go straight to the answer of, well, 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:48.660 for future generations. We need to look after the environment for other people so that they too can 00:13:48.660 --> 00:13:52.680 have a good environment to live in and that they can look after it, it can look after them kind of 00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:58.400 thing. What is the problem with that thinking? I mean, it's good thinking, like, sure, we want to look 00:13:58.400 --> 00:14:04.400 after people and so, but, you know, what is, what's the question based on? What is it pointing toward? 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:12.819 Well, it's definitely not pointing toward the environment, right? It's not getting to the point 00:14:12.819 --> 00:14:19.519 of, oh, we need to look after nature because of the value of nature. It's taking the focus off nature 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:25.179 and saying, oh, no, we need to look after it because humans are valuable, right? So it's saying nothing 00:14:25.179 --> 00:14:33.159 about the inherent value of the environment itself. And so this logic basically bases environmental 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:39.699 value not on the environment itself as the created order in and of itself, but it bases it on human 00:14:39.699 --> 00:14:45.679 dignity, okay? And that's sort of taking the focus away. So it kind of avoids the question. And so 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:52.500 the thing is, well, why do we have a moral duty toward the environment? No, we have moral duty towards 00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:58.879 persons, not objects. You know, we walk on rocks and things. We don't walk on people. There's a 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:05.980 difference. We'll step on them. And so this thinking sort of in the secular world has actually led to 00:15:05.980 --> 00:15:13.019 legislations. Some rivers and even some mountains in places like New Zealand and Canada have been 00:15:13.019 --> 00:15:20.600 granted legal personhood to try and get them protected, basically equating them with humans. And so people 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.759 have realized there's this sort of inconsistency and say, oh, man, okay, we should look after the 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:29.540 environment. Why should we do that? Because people are important. Okay, so what should we do? I know, 00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:34.159 let's make the natural world a person. That's literally where it's going, to try and import 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:42.279 the values that humans have onto the created order. And that's just really, really weird in my 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:47.899 estimation. And so what's intended to protect nature, and so it leads to really good things, 00:15:47.899 --> 00:15:53.959 protecting the world. But it actually ends up devaluing human dignity because it kind of just 00:15:53.959 --> 00:16:00.100 reduces it. You know, it's after the Second World War that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:07.199 affirmed that we have inherent human dignity, inherent human rights, right? And so that is something that 00:16:07.199 --> 00:16:14.100 can't be assigned or removed based on governments. It's a recognition that in and of ourselves, 00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:19.200 we have value. And as a Christian, obviously, I say, well, yeah, because I'm made in God's image. 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:27.399 That's where it comes from. But basically, what happens with this is that secular philosophy kind 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:33.620 of starts eroding it. Okay, let me show you just one example of that. One philosopher named Alex 00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:39.259 Rosenberg, who is not at all a theist, doesn't believe there's a God, and so he tries to make sense 00:16:39.259 --> 00:16:45.779 of things. And he basically says that only all that exists is the physical stuff and the physical 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:55.679 facts of the world, right? And it basically ends up meaning that, well, there's no, nothing more, 00:16:55.740 --> 00:17:00.740 there's no kind of moral dimension to anything. And so in summary, he would say, well, there's just 00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:05.980 the physical facts of the world. And he concludes, you know, when pressed on it, people would say, 00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:10.779 well, what is the ultimate nature of reality? He says, just the physical stuff that we have. 00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:15.720 Okay, so then the question of, okay, well, what is the purpose of the universe? To that, he says, 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:21.620 there is none. And then, okay, well, what is the meaning of life? His answer is, ditto. There is 00:17:21.620 --> 00:17:31.400 no meaning to life. So he's a fun guy to have at a party. But this kind of concern was put to this 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:38.600 chap, this green piece guy that our friend was chatting to. And basically, the idea was that, 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:46.540 well, the physics tells us that, you know, the whole universe is winding down. Eventually, 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:52.700 the sun is going to burn out, and everything's just going to end. And so for my life and the life 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:58.500 of this planet, it's basically just all destruction and meaninglessness. This is what our friend put to 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:03.519 this green piece guy. That is, it seems where the physical facts are pushing us. And he said, 00:18:03.579 --> 00:18:08.480 so if that's the case, well, why should I care about the environment? Shouldn't I just get as much as I 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:15.539 can while I'm here? And the guy responded, well, okay, that's pretty messed up. And we do agree. We 00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:20.000 say that it's pretty messed up. It doesn't really make sense. But here's the issue with the logic, 00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:26.140 right? If the universe and the whole natural world is ultimately just meaningless and destined for 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:35.460 destruction, why should we care about the environment at all? Right? It just, you've kind of eroded the 00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:40.320 basis for it. And so the whole point of that, this pushback, and you can read about it in the chapter 00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:46.560 in the Have You Ever Wondered book, is to point out that if there is no God, we've kind of lost 00:18:46.560 --> 00:18:54.860 any basis for really caring for the environment in many ways. So how can we make more sense of it? 00:18:54.859 --> 00:18:59.000 What is a Christian response? Because someone might say, okay, well, you know, how do you make sense of 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.879 this as a Christian? And I think what we need to do is actually rethink our worldview a little bit, 00:19:03.939 --> 00:19:09.059 right? So perhaps we know that the environment matters with or without us because our planet 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:16.899 actually exists, our whole world exists in relation to another person, okay, in relation to God. 00:19:17.659 --> 00:19:23.379 Okay, so my answer to why the environment and future generations matter is because God matters. 00:19:23.380 --> 00:19:28.340 And as a Christian, my responsibility to the environment and future generations is then 00:19:28.340 --> 00:19:36.460 grounded in my relationship to God, which also gives all of life and the universe meaning, purpose, 00:19:36.620 --> 00:19:42.240 and value. And so if you care about the environment and future generations, as most environmentalists 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:47.960 would, because that's the whole basis for caring for the environment, well, then I think we can 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:54.860 encourage them to bring God into their thinking. And so I think this is, you know, it's a question that 00:19:54.860 --> 00:20:00.880 the Bible has been touching on since its inception, right? So here are a couple of verses. 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:10.280 In Genesis 1, God blessed them and said to them, this is speaking about Adam and Eve, 00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:16.780 be fruitful and increase in number, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the 00:20:16.780 --> 00:20:22.420 birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground. Okay, why is that important? 00:20:22.420 --> 00:20:30.940 Well, here we have the commission to actually be stewards of the created order, right? It's not just 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:39.420 that we exist in it, but in God's perfect setup that we see being instituted in the account of Genesis 1 00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:46.080 is that we are made to be both in the world, but also looking after it, to be stewarding it, to be, 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:53.939 the language is hard. Some people can sort of think that it's not framed in a good way, you know, rule over 00:20:53.939 --> 00:20:59.759 it and subdue it. Oh, no, no, this is a good thing. It's to say like, no, no, this is something that you 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:07.779 exercise control over as humans, made in my image to be my emissaries as it is, and you're supposed to 00:21:07.779 --> 00:21:13.179 look after it and care for it. Okay, what about Genesis 2? The Lord took the man and put him in the 00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:19.420 Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. Okay, and this is a picture of the whole created order 00:21:19.420 --> 00:21:27.019 working in its perfection. This is what it was supposed to be, right? Us working the land and taking care of it. 00:21:27.100 --> 00:21:36.460 And so the admonition to be environmentalists, I think, is a thoroughly biblical theme. We have a basis for it 00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:43.100 because this is God's good creation, and we've been put in it to be looking after it. Okay, what about 00:21:43.099 --> 00:21:50.279 a couple of other verses here? In Psalm 24, it says, the earth is the Lord's and everything in it, 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:59.959 the world and all who live in it. So on the one hand, we have, okay, it is, there's the justification 00:21:59.959 --> 00:22:06.219 for environmentalism because, yes, we do need to actually look after it for future generations. 00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:12.279 There's the one aspect that comes thoroughly from the verses we just looked at, but also because in and 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:18.940 of itself, the created order is good. It is a gift given to us by God. And that's what we see there 00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:25.639 in Psalm 24. The earth is the Lord's and everything in it, the world and all who live in it. It's not a 00:22:25.639 --> 00:22:32.099 random accident, but it's something that is beautifully designed. And even through the world, 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:37.139 even through the created order, we can actually get to know God in a sense. And that is why we have 00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:43.040 the next verse there from Romans 1. And this is one of my favorite verses. I'm not going to dig into it 00:22:43.040 --> 00:22:51.180 and do much with it, but it says this, for since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, 00:22:51.800 --> 00:22:58.200 His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood from what has been 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:06.059 made so that people are without excuse. So this idea of, oh, well, you know, hey, God hasn't put 00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:12.100 enough evidence into the world for me to believe in Him, I don't think really just holds any water, 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:17.680 really, because if you, what Romans 1 is saying is if you look around at the world, even through the 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:23.240 created order, as you look up at the stars, as you look under the microscope into the fine workings of 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:30.079 the cell and see, I mean, like, just why mathematics works so well, why chemistry works well, all these 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:38.039 things are pointing us to a grand designer. And so even doing that, it says, okay, well, even based 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:44.960 on that, no one can say that, oh, well, there is no God. So even the created order itself is shouting to 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:54.440 that. There's another sort of issue, though. While I was, you know, working in this environmental 00:23:54.440 --> 00:24:00.980 space for these couple of years, you know, I went into, like, as I say, to, you know, hey, make a 00:24:00.980 --> 00:24:06.000 difference in the world, you know, make the environment better, make the world a better place. And so we 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:12.380 would go out on these long fieldwork expeditions and say, like, there's this piece of land where guys 00:24:12.380 --> 00:24:16.080 are saying, hey, we want to build a mine in the middle of the wetland. And we'd go out and do our 00:24:16.080 --> 00:24:20.640 assessments and write these long, long, long reports and submit them saying you shouldn't do that for 00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:25.940 all these reasons and against legislation and all that. And so you're out there doing this work that 00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:31.060 is, you know, good to preserve the environment. And then a couple of months later, you drive past and 00:24:31.060 --> 00:24:37.420 you see, oh, they've built the mine in the wetland anyway. And so you get a bit dejected. And this just 00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:41.400 happened again and again. And I mean, you're like, okay, well, what's the point? We have these amazing 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.200 laws saying you can't do these things. You do these acute reports. You're spending your life 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:50.600 doing this kind of work. And essentially what happens is the report gets taken. A little box 00:24:50.600 --> 00:24:57.000 gets ticked that the work was done. But then a bit of money gets passed under the table and, 00:24:57.140 --> 00:25:04.759 you know, people are going to do what they want to do anyway. And so this really just pointed out 00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:10.740 that the issue isn't actually the laws. It's not our technology. We could, you know, preserve 00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:15.740 the world. We could, you know, get to carbon neutral. We could do all of these things. 00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:21.220 Theoretically, we have all the laws to do it. But for some reason, we don't do it. We don't get there. 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:29.599 Why not? What's going on? A guy named Gus Speth, he was the leading climate and environment advisor 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:35.279 to the White House. And he says this, and I think he is really on the money. He says, 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:42.319 I used to think the top global environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse, 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:47.279 and climate change. I thought with 30 years of good science, we could address those problems. 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:55.539 But I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed, and apathy. And to deal with 00:25:55.539 --> 00:26:03.500 these, we need a spiritual and cultural transformation. And we scientists don't know how to do that. 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:10.700 He's not a Christian. I don't think he believes in God at all. But on reading that, I'm like, 00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:18.180 oh, isn't that interesting? We need a spiritual and cultural transformation. The top environmental 00:26:18.180 --> 00:26:24.380 problems are selfishness, greed, and apathy. This sounds remarkably similar to what the Bible 00:26:24.380 --> 00:26:29.420 says that our problem is. It's not that we don't have the right tech, we don't have the right laws and 00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:34.420 legislation, all that. The problem at the core of all of this, the problem that leads us to say, 00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:40.100 we need to make these changes. There is a moral obligation. And we're not doing it. And people 00:26:40.100 --> 00:26:46.039 are getting so passionate about this. The problem is sin. At the core of all of it is that we're broken 00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:51.700 and we don't do what we know we should. And we keep doing what we know we shouldn't. 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:59.779 So at the core of even the environmental issues that we see is the brokenness that we have as humans. 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.720 And so it's in the face of that that we actually long for something better. We long for a world 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:14.700 that is working rightly, a world that is not degrading. And so as we look around at the world and see 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:19.720 all that's going wrong, be it externally to us, be it internally, all these different things, 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:28.539 we cry out for restoration. That's just intuitively, you don't have to believe in God even to know this, 00:27:28.620 --> 00:27:34.500 but it's a pointer to the fact that God is there. All of us intuitively know or at least cry out for 00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:40.500 the fact that we want things to be better. We long for a better world, a world that is restored and 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:47.339 functioning properly. This is just part and parcel of the human condition. Have you ever wondered why 00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:54.799 we long for restoration? Right? I think this is an amazing bridge for our friends and family and 00:27:54.799 --> 00:28:02.079 colleagues who might not have any faith, right? Let me put it to you this way. Do any of you enjoy 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:09.539 restoration shows? Maybe like a makeover show or like a house restoration show? I love watching those 00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:13.539 all through like my teenage years. I just sit there watching these things and you like see at the 00:28:13.539 --> 00:28:18.000 beginning, the person, you know, the way they look and then the end is the great reveal and you go, 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:23.039 whoa, that's pretty cool. Or the whole house thing is this dilapidated, broken down house and then 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:26.859 they come in and do this whole revamp and at the end there is the big reveal and you're just like, 00:28:26.899 --> 00:28:32.539 oh my goodness, that's amazing. You just get the sense of like, oh yeah, that's good, right? Well, 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:39.359 not too long ago I discovered a YouTube channel where this guy takes these old like broken trinkets of 00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:45.579 different kinds and he restores them. And one of the things he, that really stood out to me is he finds an old 00:28:45.579 --> 00:28:54.379 Zippo lighter up there on the screen, you can see it, and it's like rusted and dented and twisted and broken 00:28:54.379 --> 00:29:00.099 and it's not doing what it should do. It's not functioning in the way that it should. And then through this 00:29:00.099 --> 00:29:08.539 really cool photography and film technique, he shows how he files it and chemical baths it and blow torches 00:29:08.539 --> 00:29:14.559 and hammers the thing. And through this amazing process, in the hands of the skilled craftsman, 00:29:14.899 --> 00:29:23.200 by the end you have this amazing, amazing restored little lighter. And the end shot, it's sort of on 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:28.619 this like twisting platform and the hand reaches and he picks it up, he flicks it open and he lights it. 00:29:29.139 --> 00:29:36.099 And there's this little flame just like flickering. And just the sense of like, oh yes, that is good. 00:29:36.099 --> 00:29:40.859 There's something good about that. There's something right about that. Seeing something taken from its 00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:46.980 brokenness and its corruption and it's not working the way it's supposed to be, being moved to a place 00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:55.959 of restoration, doing the thing that it's made for. I think we have a bit of a biblical theme there, 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:03.159 don't we? All through the pages of scripture we see God has created the world, Genesis 1, 00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:10.240 and things are working the way that they should. Humanity is placed into the world to have relationship 00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:18.380 with God in his creation and be his sort of stewards, his emissaries in this world to be looking after it. 00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:23.580 But then Genesis 3, we know something goes wrong and it is broken. The relationship is broken, 00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:28.240 the whole created order is broken and we're living in that still. 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:34.880 Right? And so part of the human condition is that we see the environment around us is broken, 00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:41.259 that's what we're talking about this evening, and we want to fix it. Right? But we can't because we 00:30:41.259 --> 00:30:48.200 ourselves are broken. And so we need restoration. The whole created order needs restoration. And that is 00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:56.539 the story of scripture about how God himself steps in to bring that. And this is, I think, one of the, 00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:02.640 if you're not, if you don't believe that there's a God, I don't know how you can have any hope for the 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:08.080 future really. Not based on like, if you look at, okay, well the technology we have, all the science, 00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:12.819 all the things we're doing, the laws. The question is, how's that going? If you're a humanist, he says, 00:31:12.819 --> 00:31:17.519 no, us humans will get this right with more science and more technology. All we've done is 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:22.460 create like better ways to kill ourselves and the environment. You just look around at the news, 00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:30.339 that's what we're doing. But with God, we have a true hope. In Revelation 21, among just one of many 00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:39.200 verses, it says this, he who is seated on the throne said, I am making everything new. I'm making 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:46.120 everything new. And then he said, write this down for these words are trustworthy and true. 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:51.700 And we have that account where there in Revelation as well, there's the promise that God will be the 00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:58.140 one to come back, step in and bring this restoration to its completion and that he will wipe away every 00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:04.019 tear. He will restore everything. There'll be the new heavens and the new earth. And then there will be 00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:10.319 the completion of our glorification and taking up our residence in that new created order. That is 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.200 what we're longing for. When you see all the headlines and people's passion about fixing the 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:20.960 environment, it's like, well, we're trying to create that by ourselves and we won't get there. We need 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:29.160 God who's the great restorer and redeemer to step in and bring us there. I'll show you just one more 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:35.759 little illustration of this before I close. This theme of restoration really, to me, 00:32:35.900 --> 00:32:44.460 sticks out. So I heard this story and thought I'd share it with you. Often I get the question of, 00:32:44.540 --> 00:32:50.400 you know, well, you know, you Christians, you believe that God himself steps in, right, in the 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:56.180 person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, and he comes to save us. But why? 00:32:56.180 --> 00:33:02.799 Why would he need to do that? That question comes up very often. And so imagine this. There's an 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:10.140 artist, right? And he's gotten on in his years and he's walking through the town that he grew up in. 00:33:10.299 --> 00:33:15.460 A little bit slower now, obviously, but as he's sort of shuffling down the streets that he used to run 00:33:15.460 --> 00:33:22.360 around in when he was a child, he's walking and he sees an antique shop next to him. And as he looks in 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:28.059 the window, he sees an artwork, a piece that he did many, many years ago. And he remembers how he 00:33:28.059 --> 00:33:34.079 gifted it to a friend all those years ago before he was famous. And as he looks at it, he sees it's 00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:39.459 torn and ripped and scuffed and the frame is broken. It's not what it once was. It's not what it's 00:33:39.459 --> 00:33:46.079 supposed to be. But it's his and he loves it and he wants to get his hands on it. He wants to fix it. 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:52.399 Right? But before he can do that, before he can get his hands on it to start fixing it up, 00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:59.539 what does he need to do? Can he just go into the shop and grab it? No. He has to go in and he has to 00:33:59.539 --> 00:34:06.599 buy it back. He has to buy it back before he can fix the frame and start touching it up and restore it 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:12.199 to what it's supposed to be, this beautiful thing hanging on the wall, working in the right way, 00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:20.359 restored. He has to part with his money. And that in the same way, it's a poor, poor illustration, 00:34:20.859 --> 00:34:26.759 but in the same way, God sees us and sees the created order, the environment, the whole world 00:34:26.759 --> 00:34:32.939 in its broken state. And so he says, I'm going to step in. I'm going to find you and I'm going to 00:34:32.939 --> 00:34:39.279 start restoring you. But he has to pay the price. He himself goes to the cross and he dies the death 00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:45.940 that we deserve. He pays the price for our sin that we should rightly pay. And then he offers us 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:53.100 grace. And that relationship with God, that coming to know him is really the only way that we can ever 00:34:53.100 --> 00:34:59.000 start to even change in this life now in terms of looking after the environment or having any kind of 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:07.660 real basis for wanting to look after it. I'm going to stop there and hand over to you for a little bit 00:35:07.659 --> 00:35:14.440 more discussion. Two questions. First, if our care for the environment depends on our view of human 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:22.639 value and dignity, what worldview best protects both people and nature and why? Number two, how might 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:28.799 seeing the environment as part of God's creation rather than just physical matter change the way we 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:35.460 live day to day? And that is maybe a bit of a challenge to all of us. Let me pray for us and 00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:44.840 then I'll hand over to you for a small discussion. Father God, we thank you that we can be here this 00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:50.780 evening. Lord, I just want to thank you for the beauty of your creation. Thank you that we get to 00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:58.920 live in this world and just see your mighty hand. We see the works of your hand, Lord. 00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:06.940 At the same time, we look around and we know that it is not working the way that it should, that it is 00:36:06.940 --> 00:36:16.220 broken. And we are to blame for that, Lord, in an ongoing way. And so I pray, Lord, that as we think 00:36:16.219 --> 00:36:21.559 about this question of why the environment matters, we wouldn't first look to ourselves, but we would 00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:28.480 look to you and we would recognize and declare that the environment matters because it is your creation. 00:36:29.279 --> 00:36:35.779 It is your creation. And so, Lord, I pray that as we speak to family and friends and colleagues who might 00:36:35.779 --> 00:36:43.799 not know you, we'd be able to show that even our passion for the environment, even the yearning that we have 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:51.120 for it to be working and not degraded, even that, Lord, is a pointer to you. I pray that you would 00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:59.300 help us to be bold in being able to declare that to those who don't know you. We ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.