WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.580
 Start five after the hour.

00:00:01.679 --> 00:00:02.200
 Five after the hour.

00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:03.899
 Yeah, and then five to or whatever.

00:00:04.179 --> 00:00:05.320
 Five till the end so that

00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:08.140
 give people a little bit more time to come in.

00:00:08.140 --> 00:00:08.259
 ...

00:00:08.259 --> 00:00:10.140
 ...

00:00:10.140 --> 00:00:12.140
 ...

00:00:12.140 --> 00:00:14.140
 ...

00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:16.140
 ...

00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:18.140
 ...

00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:20.140
 ...

00:00:20.140 --> 00:00:22.140
 ...

00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.140
 ...

00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:26.140
 ...

00:00:26.140 --> 00:00:28.140
 ...

00:00:28.140 --> 00:00:29.140
 ...

00:00:29.140 --> 00:00:31.140
 ...

00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:33.140
 ...

00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:34.020
 Yeah, I know, I know.

00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:35.759
 I've been one of those people.

00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:35.920
 ...

00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:37.760
 ...

00:00:37.760 --> 00:00:39.760
 ...

00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:40.760
 ...

00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:43.760
 ...

00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:44.079
 ...

00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:44.320
 ...

00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:44.579
 ...

00:00:44.579 --> 00:00:44.659
 ...

00:00:44.659 --> 00:00:46.619
 ...

00:00:46.619 --> 00:00:46.919
 ...

00:00:46.919 --> 00:00:48.599
 ...

00:00:48.599 --> 00:00:53.339
 ...

00:00:53.339 --> 00:00:53.780
 ...

00:00:53.780 --> 00:00:59.500
 singing. Oh really? Yes. So there's going to be a rehearsal after that, before that.

00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:05.799
 Wow. Is it between services or after? It's after the second, actually way after the second,

00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:22.060
 maybe around 3 p.m. Oh God. All right. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning everyone.

00:01:22.060 --> 00:01:33.040
 Let us start with a word of prayer. Father in heaven, we thank you because you are good,

00:01:33.460 --> 00:01:39.240
 you are wise, you are all powerful, Lord. And that is a foundation of how you act in the

00:01:39.240 --> 00:01:45.300
 world, oh God. Your loving kindness and your tender mercy towards all of us in the little

00:01:45.300 --> 00:01:51.420
 and the big things, Lord. And thank you that we get some time this morning to reflect

00:01:51.420 --> 00:01:56.960
 on the way you act and deal with us, Lord. We pray that as we dive into mysteries, oh

00:01:56.960 --> 00:02:02.859
 Lord, that in many ways, God, in a number of ways too big for us to know, we pray you will

00:02:02.859 --> 00:02:08.000
 illuminate our hearts, God, and our minds to hear what your word has to say to us, to

00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:15.280
 hear, oh God, how sort of those who walk before us have wrestled with these things, God. That

00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:21.259
 we may be illuminated, oh God, not just in our heads, but in our hearts, God. We see

00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:27.659
 how the truth of your providence, oh Lord, Father, is a reality in which we can rest in

00:02:27.659 --> 00:02:31.759
 our day to day. We thank you in Jesus' name. Amen.

00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:36.259
 All right, everyone. Good morning. Thanks for coming.

00:02:36.259 --> 00:02:44.819
 Deb, is Matt coming? Okay, great. I am looking. All right, so today we will be talking about

00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:51.459
 the doctrine of providence. And simply put, the doctrine of providence is the theology

00:02:51.459 --> 00:02:58.139
 of pretty much how God acts in the world. In many ways, this doctrine is related to the

00:02:58.139 --> 00:03:05.259
 topic or the attribute of sovereignty that we discussed several weeks back, which focuses

00:03:05.259 --> 00:03:13.019
 on the nature of God's authority over creation. However, in some sense, you could think about

00:03:13.019 --> 00:03:20.299
 sovereignty as capturing the normative oppositional relationship of God in the world. That is, God

00:03:20.299 --> 00:03:27.280
 is the supreme final ruler of all things, everywhere for all time. Providence would describe how

00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:34.539
 that sovereignty is experienced by creation. Sovereignty in some way captures the noun form

00:03:34.539 --> 00:03:41.479
 of this attribute. And the doctrine of providence captures the verb form of it. So don't be

00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:45.199
 surprised. There are a number of things, and I've spoken to Tyler about this. There are a few

00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:51.560
 things that would echo in between, across both, because in some way they are two parts of a whole.

00:03:51.959 --> 00:03:56.219
 Give me one second. I need to wear my glasses so I can see the smiling and frowning faces.

00:03:56.219 --> 00:04:01.979
 And get live feedback. It's like, what did you just say?

00:04:01.979 --> 00:04:06.340
 All right. All right. So yeah, so in many ways, this would be a bit, some of it will sound like a

00:04:06.340 --> 00:04:11.939
 recitation. We will cover some of the same things, some of the problems echo. I hope to highlight some

00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:17.579
 of the more practical differences. I mean, I think Tyler covered quite a bit of it. It may be worthwhile,

00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:22.699
 if you weren't at Tyler's class, to go listen to it, because I think in many ways there's like some

00:04:22.699 --> 00:04:30.479
 elements of it that he covered, like election in particular that I don't cover, because there's no

00:04:30.479 --> 00:04:38.759
 point, and we have a limited time, and I think he does it already in detail. All right. So what is

00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:43.699
 then the doctrine of providence? Now, maybe I will summarize, like this has been a doctrine that has

00:04:43.699 --> 00:04:49.560
 arisen historically in the classical reformed theology of God, and there are a few definitions

00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.459
 that might be helpful to have us start. I have this outline here, by the way, just so that you can

00:04:54.459 --> 00:05:00.780
 follow how I am going to walk through this topic. We will indeed start with definitions, then look at

00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:07.120
 characteristics, kind of what does God acting in the world, what does it look like? What are,

00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:13.319
 how does it, not how does it differ, but what are the key attributes that mark or characteristics that

00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:19.259
 mark God's working in the world? Then we will spend quite some time talking about some of the tensions.

00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:24.879
 In it, because I think oftentimes that's where you could say the abstractness of the doctrine,

00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:30.280
 or the seeming abstractness of the doctrine, meets the reality of our everyday lives, and the

00:05:30.280 --> 00:05:35.259
 conversations, and the things we wrestle with. And then finally, we'll end with some implications.

00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:42.279
 So what does it mean for us, and how we live? Depending on time, I think we will have an opportunity

00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:47.340
 to break out and talk among ourselves around some of these tensions, and the nature of the problem,

00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:52.519
 examples in scripture, and how scripture actually responds to some of these. And then we will come

00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:57.859
 back to get, we will come back and share some of those thoughts before we land on implications.

00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:04.479
 Cool. So hopefully helpful to follow as I go along. All right, I was at the definition of providence.

00:06:04.739 --> 00:06:12.419
 So the Heidelberg Catechism defines providence as the almighty everywhere power of God, whereby,

00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:19.420
 as it were by His hand, He still upholds heaven and earth with all creatures, and so governs them,

00:06:19.960 --> 00:06:26.319
 that herbs and grass, rain and drought, fruitful and barren years, meat and drink, health and sickness,

00:06:26.860 --> 00:06:32.819
 riches and poverty. Indeed, all things come not by chance, but by His fatherly hand.

00:06:32.819 --> 00:06:35.500
 The Belgic Confession says,

00:06:35.620 --> 00:06:42.139
 we believe that this good God, after creating all things, did not abandon them to chance or fortune,

00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:49.399
 but leads and governs them according to His holy will, in such a way that nothing happens in this world

00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:57.339
 without God's orderly arrangement. And even shorter from the Westminster Larger Catechism,

00:06:57.339 --> 00:07:05.659
 says, God's work of providence at His most holy, wise and powerful, preserving and governing all His creatures,

00:07:06.459 --> 00:07:10.000
 ordering them and all their actions to His glory.

00:07:11.060 --> 00:07:17.659
 So, in other words, or very simply, this is my own, Kunle's summary definition would be,

00:07:18.779 --> 00:07:23.299
 even after God created the world, He's still very active in it.

00:07:23.300 --> 00:07:31.560
 He's working in a good, wise and all-powerful way to preserve, sustain and govern all His creatures,

00:07:32.540 --> 00:07:35.680
 and ordering them and their actions to bring about His purpose.

00:07:36.500 --> 00:07:40.560
 God is actively at work in the world today. That's the doctrine.

00:07:40.780 --> 00:07:48.319
 And it's not, God did not, as opposed to like a deist idea of God essentially creating the world,

00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:56.759
 setting laws in motion and go. God is actively working in the world across dimensions.

00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:03.079
 We will talk about them, both big and small, in achieving His purposes today.

00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:10.060
 In providence, we see how God's attributes of goodness, wisdom, and supreme power work together

00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:11.779
 in creation to achieve His purpose.

00:08:11.779 --> 00:08:19.059
 Now, one thing these definitions do not highlight, and I think if you read some of the references I consulted,

00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:24.479
 and the big sort of works that I read in preparation for this,

00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:27.919
 where it's some of like John Frame's Systematic Theology and Wayne Grudem,

00:08:28.119 --> 00:08:32.720
 and then John Piper has a book on providence, and I think there was like a few others.

00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:38.159
 I think there's Faith Seeking Understanding by Migliore, I think is his last name.

00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:41.519
 And I can talk to some of those references at the end.

00:08:41.959 --> 00:08:48.539
 But some of the things I think it was framed, I discussed, is how some theologians try to make a distinction

00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:52.279
 between miracles and providence.

00:08:52.779 --> 00:08:57.000
 Because if you think about providence being essentially God's acts in the world,

00:08:57.100 --> 00:09:01.339
 or the doctrine rather, or the theology of how God acts in the world,

00:09:01.340 --> 00:09:08.519
 some theologians make categorical distinctions between miracles and providence,

00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:14.120
 and ascribing miracles to His, in some ways, supernatural interventions,

00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:22.220
 and then providence to His more natural means interventions in the world.

00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:28.420
 However, Scripture doesn't often make these categorical distinctions.

00:09:28.419 --> 00:09:33.860
 Many Psalms that talk about God and God's engagement in the world highlight in the same way,

00:09:34.179 --> 00:09:38.199
 if you think about the grand miracle being, well, there are many grand miracles in Scripture,

00:09:38.379 --> 00:09:42.860
 the grand miracle of creation, ex nihilo creation, is a miraculous act.

00:09:43.219 --> 00:09:50.039
 But pull that thread into His regular sustaining and preserving the world,

00:09:50.339 --> 00:09:53.480
 and don't make seeming categorical differences.

00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:58.100
 So, in some sense, it might be easier to think of it along a spectrum of, like,

00:09:59.060 --> 00:10:03.399
 miracles being at one end, and in general providence, being at the other end.

00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:07.320
 And so here will be our first exercise, that in the Bible,

00:10:07.940 --> 00:10:12.060
 there are actually books of the Bible that tend to lean one or the other,

00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:13.960
 or describe one versus the other.

00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:16.039
 So, maybe think about it.

00:10:16.220 --> 00:10:20.320
 What's an example of a book that highlights a lot on the miraculous end?

00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:26.960
 And one book, there's actually a unique book in the Bible that is almost entirely about providence.

00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:34.940
 All right, so soon.

00:10:36.020 --> 00:10:36.500
 Job.

00:10:36.920 --> 00:10:37.840
 Job? Hmm.

00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:39.940
 That's interesting.

00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:40.780
 In what way?

00:10:41.180 --> 00:10:42.320
 Job is about...

00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:44.960
 Not exactly, I would say.

00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:46.320
 I think it is...

00:10:47.520 --> 00:10:48.320
 It is...

00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.140
 Job is a tricky one.

00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:50.620
 I would say.

00:10:51.179 --> 00:10:54.519
 Because I think Job shows up in a different way in the context of this book.

00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:57.620
 But I would say if I had to put Job in the spectrum,

00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:01.480
 Job is actually, yes, to your point, more on what end, actually?

00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:03.000
 Yes.

00:11:03.460 --> 00:11:04.120
 Providential end.

00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:04.419
 Yes.

00:11:04.899 --> 00:11:05.120
 Debbie?

00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:05.960
 Exodus.

00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:06.639
 Exodus.

00:11:07.139 --> 00:11:08.679
 On the miraculous end.

00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:09.439
 Absolutely.

00:11:09.860 --> 00:11:12.139
 Like, the plagues are just...

00:11:13.220 --> 00:11:15.679
 You know, act after act, plague after plague,

00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:25.579
 is God just supernaturally intervening in the affairs in the land of Egypt to demonstrate his power.

00:11:25.579 --> 00:11:33.079
 And some would say, looking at those plagues, was God trying to prove his sovereignty over many of the gods that they worshipped,

00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:35.659
 some of which were represented in those plagues themselves.

00:11:35.659 --> 00:11:36.699
 All right.

00:11:36.699 --> 00:11:38.539
 So, that's miraculous.

00:11:39.539 --> 00:11:40.879
 I was thinking of 1 Samuel.

00:11:41.079 --> 00:11:41.419
 Uh-huh.

00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:43.959
 You know, David and Goliath.

00:11:44.100 --> 00:11:44.339
 Yeah.

00:11:44.439 --> 00:11:48.399
 Some of the miraculous things of God giving David the victory over the battle.

00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:53.579
 And a lot of these wars that are happening, God seems to be intervening on behalf of the people.

00:11:53.579 --> 00:11:53.799
 Yep.

00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:54.759
 Drawing his hands.

00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:55.419
 Yeah.

00:11:55.939 --> 00:11:56.559
 Historical.

00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:57.319
 Yeah.

00:11:58.059 --> 00:11:58.879
 One more.

00:11:58.919 --> 00:11:59.199
 Is this?

00:11:59.659 --> 00:11:59.879
 Genesis.

00:11:59.980 --> 00:12:00.620
 Absolutely.

00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:02.259
 Ha ha.

00:12:02.259 --> 00:12:03.580
 Absolutely.

00:12:03.980 --> 00:12:08.519
 The first few chapters, Ex nihilo creation of the world.

00:12:08.980 --> 00:12:14.299
 One of the, yeah, pretty supreme creation acts and miraculous acts of God.

00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:22.519
 There's the Gospels that talk about Jesus Christ in demonstrating his power and his authority

00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.439
 and essentially trying to make them realize who he was by some of the things that he did and the signs that he performed

00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:34.040
 to point them to who he truly was, not just man, but God himself in flesh.

00:12:34.940 --> 00:12:35.940
 The providence end.

00:12:36.040 --> 00:12:36.740
 Maybe one more.

00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:39.980
 Like, there's one book that is almost entirely providential.

00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:40.720
 I'm thinking of Ruth.

00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:41.420
 Uh-huh.

00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:42.500
 Oh, yes, actually.

00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:46.620
 Ruth is just, you know, God is, I don't explicitly mention him.

00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:48.840
 I mean, I don't know if he's intervening.

00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.000
 I think God is mentioned in the book of Ruth.

00:12:51.060 --> 00:12:52.280
 Is he like, okay, his acts.

00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:52.580
 Okay.

00:12:52.660 --> 00:12:52.920
 Yeah.

00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:54.100
 But Ruth is, you're right.

00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:56.240
 Ruth will be very close to the providence end.

00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.259
 There's one book still to the left of.

00:12:58.600 --> 00:12:59.039
 Exactly.

00:13:00.299 --> 00:13:02.960
 Esther is the providential book.

00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:05.220
 God is not mentioned in the book of Esther.

00:13:05.659 --> 00:13:10.460
 And yet, in the stories of Esther, the night before Mordecai, I mean, was it Mordecai?

00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:11.519
 I don't remember.

00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:11.860
 Maybe.

00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:12.919
 That thing that's.

00:13:13.680 --> 00:13:15.060
 No, Esther's.

00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:16.720
 Esther, yeah, it's Mordecai, right?

00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:16.940
 Yeah.

00:13:17.180 --> 00:13:18.639
 The night before he was killed.

00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.039
 That night, the king could not sleep.

00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.100
 Interestingly, and the king asked for the books of remembrance.

00:13:24.100 --> 00:13:27.820
 And at the same time, Haman happens to be walking in.

00:13:28.040 --> 00:13:29.980
 The person who wants to kill Esther.

00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:34.259
 And there's so many situations that the book talks about without mentioning God.

00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:38.700
 It's almost purely providential, but no less miraculous.

00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.700
 And how God, in that period, was able to sustain and preserve his people.

00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:45.180
 All right.

00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.820
 So, that is the definition of providence.

00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:58.260
 God does work in creation in both miraculous and, say, through normal means to preserve, sustain, and govern his creation.

00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:01.680
 Now, how does the Bible see the realms of this providence?

00:14:01.780 --> 00:14:02.700
 Still under the definition.

00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:03.080
 Where?

00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:07.800
 I think, first of all, God's providence is over animate and inanimate creation.

00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:21.279
 And I think there is an extended passage I want to read because, for me, it's one of the, it captures both the spirit and the nature and extent of God's providence, which would be Psalm 104 from verse 10.

00:14:21.459 --> 00:14:21.679
 It says,

00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:24.099
 You make springs gush forth in the valleys.

00:14:24.379 --> 00:14:26.039
 They flow between the hills.

00:14:26.299 --> 00:14:29.279
 They give drink to every beast of the field.

00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:31.719
 The wild donkeys quench their thirst.

00:14:32.299 --> 00:14:34.599
 Besides them, the birds of the heaven dwell.

00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:36.899
 They sing among the branches.

00:14:37.079 --> 00:14:39.679
 From your lofty abode, you water the mountains.

00:14:40.059 --> 00:14:42.759
 The earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work.

00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:49.079
 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate,

00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:59.220
 that he may bring forth food from the earth, wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread to strengthen man's heart.

00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:01.639
 He made the moon to mark the seasons.

00:15:01.900 --> 00:15:04.220
 The sun knows its time for setting.

00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:09.500
 You make darkness, and it is night, when all the beasts of the forest creep about.

00:15:09.940 --> 00:15:14.740
 The young lions roar for their prey, seeking their food from God.

00:15:14.740 --> 00:15:19.440
 When the sun rises, they still away, and lie down in their dens.

00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:23.360
 Man goes out to his work, and to his labor until the evening.

00:15:23.899 --> 00:15:26.379
 O Lord, how manifold are your works!

00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:28.519
 In wisdom you have made them all.

00:15:28.940 --> 00:15:30.960
 The earth is full of your creatures.

00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:38.419
 Here is the sea, great and wide, which teems with creatures innumerable, living things both small and great.

00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:42.940
 There go the ships, and Leviathan, which you formed to play in it.

00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:47.400
 These all look to you to give them their food in due season.

00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.320
 When you give it to them, they gather it up.

00:15:50.860 --> 00:15:54.060
 When you open your hand, they are filled with good things.

00:15:54.500 --> 00:15:56.940
 When you hide your face, they are dismayed.

00:15:57.280 --> 00:16:01.240
 When you take away their breath, they die and return to dust.

00:16:01.760 --> 00:16:07.600
 When you send forth your spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:15.220
 God is describing many things that we would naturally ascribe to, physical, natural processes.

00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:20.139
 But it doesn't act like, oh God, you sort of sit remotely, and then you just direct them.

00:16:20.540 --> 00:16:25.300
 God is actively doing these things, is the way the Bible teaches us to think about it.

00:16:25.820 --> 00:16:28.340
 The lions, it says, look to God for their food.

00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:36.920
 Of course, they are prowling around for prey, but it reminds us here that it is God who provides the food to them.

00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:43.500
 It talks about, there was another one I said about how, you know, when they look, they all look to God for their food,

00:16:43.560 --> 00:16:45.940
 and when God takes away their breath, they die.

00:16:46.280 --> 00:16:48.240
 It's not like they fall sick or they get attacked.

00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:51.240
 God chooses to take away breath, and they die.

00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:56.899
 I mean, and so it's, this passage is, in some way, there are many passages, but I just thought we'll focus on,

00:16:57.019 --> 00:17:04.220
 or at least pick a few that I will read, that just highlight sort of God's, the realms or the domains of God's providence,

00:17:04.299 --> 00:17:05.460
 and how far does it reach.

00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.079
 So animate and inanimate creation completely.

00:17:09.579 --> 00:17:13.940
 Bible talks in Matthew, I think when Jesus was saying that, like, you know,

00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:16.680
 no spiral falls to the ground without God knowing it.

00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:25.660
 As tiny as pyros were and as almost invalid, like, relatively low value, God is aware when they fall.

00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.519
 It talks about the hairs of our head being numbered.

00:17:29.120 --> 00:17:31.100
 Not counted, numbered.

00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:35.480
 Meaning every one of them has a number that is known to God.

00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.620
 And so it's the extent of his detail over animate, inanimate creation.

00:17:41.580 --> 00:17:43.580
 Next is about kingdoms and nations.

00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:48.359
 And I think some of these, Tyler, again, I can mention, spoke about, but I will summarize.

00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:54.240
 At the end of the days, I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me.

00:17:54.299 --> 00:17:58.899
 This is in Daniel chapter 4, I think it's 3 to 5.

00:17:59.019 --> 00:18:00.599
 I didn't write it down, but I think that's where it is.

00:18:01.899 --> 00:18:03.299
 And my reason returned to me.

00:18:03.339 --> 00:18:07.139
 And I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever.

00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:14.520
 For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, and His kingdom endures from generation to generation.

00:18:15.540 --> 00:18:26.140
 All the inhabitants of the earth are counted as nothing, and He does according to His will among the hosts of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth.

00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.580
 And none can stay His hand or say to Him, What have you done?

00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:45.159
 God is sovereign over both the minutest detail of spirals falling to the ground, and His providence extends to how kings and nations, the ones He raises up and the ones He casts down, because He chooses to.

00:18:45.579 --> 00:18:49.299
 And no one can question Him and say, What have you done?

00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:51.579
 There's over our individual decisions.

00:18:51.579 --> 00:19:00.480
 The Lamentations 3.37 says, Who can decree a thing and have it come to pass unless the Lord has commanded it?

00:19:01.159 --> 00:19:09.159
 And in Proverbs 16, verse 9, it says, In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord orders the steps.

00:19:10.099 --> 00:19:12.740
 There's another verse I didn't find a reference now.

00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:17.500
 It says, The lot is cast into the lap, but every decision is from the Lord.

00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:23.160
 So God is sovereign over what we would call even randomness, like tossing a die.

00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:28.039
 The decisions that come out, the die is the equivalent of the lot in those days.

00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:32.619
 The decisions that come from it are ordered by God.

00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:33.859
 Okay.

00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:38.240
 That is the definition and the scope of God's providence.

00:19:38.819 --> 00:19:40.119
 It is thorough.

00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:41.500
 It's complete.

00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:47.220
 It pervades all of nature and creation, from the least to the greatest.

00:19:47.500 --> 00:19:54.680
 And God does so in a way that is good, wise, and powerful.

00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:56.480
 All right.

00:19:56.980 --> 00:19:58.940
 So the characteristics of providence.

00:19:59.059 --> 00:20:00.019
 I'm looking at the time.

00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:07.599
 So within sort of like classical reform theology, the three, in some sense, characteristics.

00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:09.200
 So what defines the nature.

00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:13.980
 We've talked, these passages highlight them, and I think hopefully the definitions will sharpen them in your minds.

00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:18.319
 The first is, I would call it preservation.

00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:25.680
 Preservation is just an idea that the things that God has created, they maintain their properties,

00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:30.500
 or like they continue to exist because God sustains them.

00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:36.740
 So God keeps things acting in the way he has created them.

00:20:36.740 --> 00:20:47.420
 And then a second related one is concurrence, which is that God also, these things continue to, these things act,

00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:54.339
 or God acts with these things or together with these things in line with the way he created them.

00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.519
 So preservation and concurrence sort of in many ways go hand in hand,

00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:04.139
 especially when we talk to how we understand God's action within nature.

00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:07.019
 And I think the final one would be government.

00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:13.039
 Government just being that God's providence is teleological.

00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:15.279
 It has a purpose in mind.

00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.220
 In all he does, directs.

00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:22.879
 He has a purpose in all he does and directs all things to achieve his purpose.

00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.460
 God's work in the world is not like a merry-go-round.

00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:31.319
 It's not an endless cycle of life, like circle of life, like, you know,

00:21:31.420 --> 00:21:36.720
 or as some religions or some philosophies will have it.

00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:39.559
 God's providence is directed.

00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:45.360
 And the thing that God does in our lives is all aiming towards an end.

00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:49.240
 An end, the grand end in some cases of,

00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:54.240
 actually the ultimate grand end being his glory in all of creation.

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:58.720
 The grand end of bringing all things under together,

00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:01.900
 together under the unity and the lordship of Jesus Christ.

00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.539
 So in small and big things, God is working towards an end.

00:22:08.660 --> 00:22:11.839
 Now, preservation and concurrence are sort of like,

00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:14.240
 concurrence is probably where many of the tensions,

00:22:14.339 --> 00:22:17.180
 some of the tensions in providence come up.

00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:21.600
 But I'll probably, maybe to, I'll spend some time explaining that,

00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:24.080
 because even for me, it's like an interesting idea.

00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.799
 Think about the earth moving around the sun.

00:22:28.580 --> 00:22:31.060
 I saw one who studied science and engineering.

00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:36.519
 It's like, you know, the theory of gravity is what explains the movement of the earth around the sun.

00:22:37.060 --> 00:22:39.799
 It's, yeah, and how like the planets and most of space,

00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:44.299
 at least the large scale, gravity explains the large scale,

00:22:44.899 --> 00:22:48.200
 kind of, many of the large scale phenomena in the world,

00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:51.859
 especially the interaction of masses.

00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.779
 The doctrine of providence will say, yeah, gravity is how we describe

00:22:56.779 --> 00:23:00.419
 the way God works in keeping the earth around the sun.

00:23:01.059 --> 00:23:03.319
 It doesn't say that there is no such thing,

00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:05.939
 but it's that there is no,

00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:09.480
 there is no final natural cause,

00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:10.679
 is the way to understand it,

00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:15.059
 that gravity is not the ultimate cause of things that,

00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:16.720
 of the motion of the earth.

00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:18.039
 It is a description.

00:23:18.379 --> 00:23:22.200
 God is the ultimate cause of the things that we observe.

00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:26.059
 Yet God works such that it works in line with how

00:23:26.059 --> 00:23:28.019
 he's designed these things to behave.

00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:31.000
 And so we can observe many secondary causes.

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.819
 And in some, because I don't,

00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:36.920
 non-Christians can observe the motion of planets.

00:23:37.059 --> 00:23:38.500
 They can describe what will happen.

00:23:38.779 --> 00:23:39.920
 Yeah, and I think it's like,

00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:42.099
 they can observe the secondary causes.

00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.599
 And in many ways, God has designed it so that indeed,

00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:50.920
 or God works consistently in that way,

00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:53.500
 in such a way that enables science to be possible.

00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:55.940
 Because God works consistently

00:23:55.940 --> 00:24:00.279
 in keeping the earth around the sun,

00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.740
 we can predict eclipses,

00:24:02.859 --> 00:24:05.259
 we can predict so many things far into the future,

00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:08.960
 because it rests on sort of the way God works,

00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:13.720
 but not to believe that gravity is in and of itself.

00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:20.059
 And John chapter one actually tries to make that point.

00:24:20.420 --> 00:24:21.099
 When it says,

00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:22.799
 in the beginning was the word,

00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:23.480
 the word was the God,

00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:24.200
 and the word was God.

00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:24.859
 And it says, you know,

00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:25.899
 in him nothing was made.

00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:30.620
 There is someone behind the phenomena that we'd observe.

00:24:30.820 --> 00:24:33.660
 And I think that is what both preservation and concurrence

00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:35.400
 try to highlight.

00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:37.900
 Let me pause.

00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:39.220
 Any questions?

00:24:41.780 --> 00:24:42.120
 Okay.

00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:44.699
 All right.

00:24:44.859 --> 00:24:46.219
 So those are the characteristics.

00:24:47.539 --> 00:24:49.500
 Now, what are the tensions?

00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:51.139
 Because I think these is where,

00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.759
 some of the,

00:24:55.419 --> 00:24:56.239
 in general,

00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:58.319
 I think I would say we all kind of agree

00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:00.559
 and celebrate the doctrine of providence.

00:25:00.819 --> 00:25:01.959
 But there are areas where, you know,

00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:04.879
 it meets the reality of some of the questions.

00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:06.239
 And many of these,

00:25:06.379 --> 00:25:07.359
 some of the questions we have,

00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.139
 and I would be first to say that many of these tensions,

00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.519
 oceans of ink,

00:25:11.719 --> 00:25:14.079
 have been spilled over centuries,

00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:15.159
 not just decades,

00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:17.059
 in trying to address these questions.

00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:20.979
 And yet some questions still remain.

00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:24.939
 What I will try and do is to articulate

00:25:24.939 --> 00:25:26.659
 what the tension is,

00:25:26.899 --> 00:25:27.779
 why it is a problem.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.459
 And I think we have time to then,

00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:29.939
 like I said,

00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:31.919
 in maybe little groups,

00:25:32.059 --> 00:25:33.379
 I see one group,

00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:34.339
 one group,

00:25:34.479 --> 00:25:35.079
 and one group

00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:36.199
 to discuss,

00:25:36.639 --> 00:25:37.299
 in some way,

00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:41.179
 examples of these problems in Scripture.

00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.399
 And maybe just discuss one way

00:25:44.399 --> 00:25:46.039
 Scripture tries to address them,

00:25:46.179 --> 00:25:47.919
 even if it may be incomplete.

00:25:48.220 --> 00:25:49.259
 And we can come back together

00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:50.539
 and discuss them.

00:25:51.339 --> 00:25:51.579
 All right.

00:25:51.879 --> 00:25:53.139
 So the first one,

00:25:53.299 --> 00:25:54.220
 and the biggest one,

00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:55.319
 is the problem of evil.

00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:57.859
 The problem of evil,

00:25:58.619 --> 00:26:00.359
 which is simply that

00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:01.639
 there are,

00:26:01.699 --> 00:26:03.579
 bad things happen in the world,

00:26:03.579 --> 00:26:05.519
 and the world that we describe

00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:06.359
 as being created

00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:07.559
 by a good,

00:26:07.899 --> 00:26:08.220
 wise,

00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:09.419
 and powerful God.

00:26:10.939 --> 00:26:12.039
 And it's bad things

00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:13.319
 that are often senseless,

00:26:13.939 --> 00:26:14.139
 you know,

00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:15.599
 earthquakes and tsunamis

00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:16.960
 that kill

00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.000
 hundreds of thousands of people,

00:26:19.639 --> 00:26:21.299
 of innocent children

00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:23.220
 who've been gone down in schools,

00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:23.539
 like,

00:26:23.659 --> 00:26:25.319
 for no apparent reason.

00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.579
 many people suffer

00:26:27.579 --> 00:26:28.779
 incurable diseases,

00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:31.079
 some of them being genetic.

00:26:31.259 --> 00:26:31.859
 It's not as though,

00:26:31.899 --> 00:26:32.059
 like,

00:26:32.099 --> 00:26:33.000
 it was as a result

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:33.359
 of, like,

00:26:33.419 --> 00:26:34.299
 lifestyle habits.

00:26:36.740 --> 00:26:38.059
 How do this work

00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:40.819
 if we say God is good,

00:26:41.220 --> 00:26:41.480
 wise,

00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:42.119
 and powerful?

00:26:42.919 --> 00:26:44.099
 Because if he is good,

00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:46.079
 he wants to prevent

00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:46.819
 these evils.

00:26:47.379 --> 00:26:48.779
 If he is wise,

00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:51.179
 he knows how to do so.

00:26:51.579 --> 00:26:52.720
 If he's powerful,

00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:53.859
 he can.

00:26:53.859 --> 00:26:55.719
 So if these things

00:26:55.719 --> 00:26:56.399
 still happen,

00:26:56.939 --> 00:26:58.099
 does God remain good,

00:26:58.379 --> 00:26:58.779
 wise,

00:26:59.179 --> 00:26:59.819
 and powerful?

00:27:02.879 --> 00:27:03.439
 So,

00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:05.039
 that's the first problem

00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:05.899
 and why it's a problem.

00:27:07.219 --> 00:27:08.619
 The second one

00:27:08.619 --> 00:27:09.799
 is the problem

00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:10.599
 of judgment

00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:12.699
 and moral responsibility.

00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:13.619
 So,

00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:14.799
 the providence,

00:27:14.979 --> 00:27:16.139
 I talked in some way,

00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:17.119
 maybe a little bit

00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:17.879
 intentionally,

00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:19.399
 and one area

00:27:19.399 --> 00:27:20.379
 that God is sovereign,

00:27:20.439 --> 00:27:20.779
 like I said,

00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:21.779
 over our decisions.

00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:24.319
 God is able to work,

00:27:24.399 --> 00:27:24.539
 like,

00:27:24.819 --> 00:27:26.279
 everything works

00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:27.500
 with God's,

00:27:27.639 --> 00:27:28.720
 in some way,

00:27:28.899 --> 00:27:29.940
 God's providence.

00:27:31.220 --> 00:27:32.000
 Our sins,

00:27:32.299 --> 00:27:32.839
 our evil,

00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.220
 even our,

00:27:34.220 --> 00:27:34.539
 our,

00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:34.980
 yeah,

00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:35.519
 our sins

00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.680
 and some of the bad things

00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:37.079
 we do.

00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:40.019
 How does that work?

00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:41.440
 And if God is

00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.680
 sovereignly orchestrating

00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:43.779
 everything

00:27:44.379 --> 00:27:46.119
 for his purpose,

00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:48.599
 how can he judge me?

00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:52.099
 Why am I held

00:27:52.099 --> 00:27:53.439
 responsible for my actions?

00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:53.839
 Because,

00:27:54.579 --> 00:27:54.919
 I mean,

00:27:54.979 --> 00:27:56.000
 am I not just

00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.339
 carrying out

00:27:58.339 --> 00:27:59.259
 the things that God

00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:00.119
 has intended

00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:01.759
 already to do?

00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:04.000
 Do my actions

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:04.879
 not accomplish

00:28:04.879 --> 00:28:05.879
 his greater purpose?

00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:07.019
 And so,

00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:07.679
 if they do,

00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:10.259
 why does he judge me?

00:28:11.259 --> 00:28:11.660
 So,

00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:12.940
 those are the two

00:28:12.940 --> 00:28:14.160
 big tensions

00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.940
 around the topic

00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:16.559
 of providence.

00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:16.839
 Like,

00:28:16.879 --> 00:28:17.799
 how do you square that

00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:18.240
 with evil?

00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:20.359
 If evil does happen,

00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:21.299
 maybe God,

00:28:21.460 --> 00:28:22.740
 does God have an evil side

00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:23.839
 that we just don't know

00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:24.720
 and we haven't seen?

00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:25.660
 It's how some people

00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:26.799
 try and resolve

00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:27.440
 that tension.

00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:29.039
 It's evil and illusion

00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.059
 that doesn't really

00:28:31.059 --> 00:28:31.640
 quite exist.

00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:32.420
 It's just a matter

00:28:32.420 --> 00:28:33.140
 of the mind.

00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:34.200
 It's how some people

00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:34.940
 try and frame it.

00:28:35.619 --> 00:28:36.359
 Maybe God doesn't

00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:37.000
 even exist.

00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:38.599
 And so,

00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:40.819
 maybe that's

00:28:40.819 --> 00:28:41.139
 some people

00:28:41.139 --> 00:28:41.819
 try and solve it

00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:42.179
 that way.

00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:43.119
 God may not be

00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:43.980
 all-powerful.

00:28:45.199 --> 00:28:45.859
 God may be

00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:46.859
 limited in his power.

00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:47.779
 But there are

00:28:47.779 --> 00:28:48.679
 some things in this world

00:28:48.679 --> 00:28:49.399
 God cannot.

00:28:50.379 --> 00:28:51.439
 This is how some people

00:28:51.439 --> 00:28:52.079
 try and address

00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.500
 the tension.

00:28:53.980 --> 00:28:54.500
 All right.

00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:54.679
 So,

00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:55.219
 like I said,

00:28:55.339 --> 00:28:56.319
 those are the problems

00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:57.039
 and the tensions

00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:57.559
 or rather,

00:28:57.679 --> 00:28:58.000
 as you say,

00:28:58.059 --> 00:28:58.859
 in the doctrine of evil.

00:28:59.019 --> 00:28:59.119
 So,

00:28:59.219 --> 00:28:59.619
 I have said

00:28:59.619 --> 00:29:00.919
 there are three groups.

00:29:01.919 --> 00:29:02.359
 It would be nice

00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:02.939
 to take maybe

00:29:02.939 --> 00:29:03.519
 the next

00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:06.240
 five to ten minutes.

00:29:06.339 --> 00:29:06.459
 So,

00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:07.119
 let's say we stop

00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.539
 at nine,

00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:09.799
 42

00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:11.119
 and talk among

00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:11.559
 yourselves.

00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:12.079
 First,

00:29:12.439 --> 00:29:13.219
 what should you do?

00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:15.000
 Are there examples

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:16.399
 of these tensions

00:29:16.399 --> 00:29:17.119
 in scripture?

00:29:17.859 --> 00:29:18.299
 One.

00:29:19.179 --> 00:29:19.959
 And then two

00:29:19.959 --> 00:29:20.480
 would be

00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:21.500
 how does scripture

00:29:21.500 --> 00:29:22.259
 encourage us

00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:23.659
 to answer

00:29:23.659 --> 00:29:24.779
 or respond to this?

00:29:25.199 --> 00:29:25.579
 And then we can

00:29:25.579 --> 00:29:26.019
 come back

00:29:26.019 --> 00:29:26.699
 and then discuss.

00:29:27.379 --> 00:29:27.539
 Okay.

00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:29.500
 So,

00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:29.919
 this is at

00:29:29.919 --> 00:29:30.299
 four,

00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:30.839
 three,

00:29:31.139 --> 00:29:31.599
 four.

00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:31.659
 Four.

00:29:31.660 --> 00:29:42.320
 I was thinking

00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:42.720
 there's the three

00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:43.180
 of you here.

00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:44.840
 Yeah.

00:29:46.060 --> 00:29:46.400
 Although,

00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:46.920
 I mean,

00:29:47.019 --> 00:29:47.259
 Tyler,

00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:47.800
 you can also

00:29:47.800 --> 00:29:48.480
 join this group

00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:48.720
 too.

00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:51.400
 I feel like,

00:29:51.460 --> 00:29:51.660
 you know,

00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:52.400
 I don't want to

00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:53.320
 divide what God

00:29:53.320 --> 00:29:54.080
 has joined together,

00:29:54.580 --> 00:29:54.860
 but,

00:29:54.859 --> 00:29:56.699
 all right.

00:29:57.099 --> 00:29:57.619
 No worries.

00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:27.599
 Thank you.

00:30:27.619 --> 00:30:57.599
 Thank you.

00:30:57.619 --> 00:31:27.599
 Thank you.

00:31:27.619 --> 00:31:57.599
 Thank you.

00:31:57.619 --> 00:32:27.599
 Thank you.

00:32:27.619 --> 00:32:29.619
 Thank you.

00:32:57.619 --> 00:32:59.619
 Thank you.

00:33:27.619 --> 00:33:29.619
 Thank you.

00:33:57.619 --> 00:34:02.619
 Thank you.

00:34:27.619 --> 00:34:32.619
 The point is that true forgiveness of religion.

00:34:32.619 --> 00:34:41.619
 Human suffering involved in their insane revolution was not as senseless as we have seen in the church.

00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:44.619
 It doesn't teach that sense of God.

00:34:44.619 --> 00:34:52.619
 Well, I wouldn't say there was simple fall in that way, but that is the bigger picture.

00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:59.619
 There's a bigger picture of what he's not.

00:34:59.619 --> 00:35:06.619
 But I also like, I know I like this.

00:35:06.619 --> 00:35:17.619
 Imagine some science fiction story where everybody is avoiding it.

00:35:17.619 --> 00:35:26.619
 If somehow we could say, there's no such thing as suffering, but the reason is that we have been in the world for the first of those examples of the same life.

00:35:26.619 --> 00:35:30.619
 Would that be a desirable one?

00:35:30.619 --> 00:35:35.619
 I mean, imagine the one person who has a slightly shorter person.

00:35:35.619 --> 00:35:37.619
 Right, like they trip home to every kid.

00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.619
 Like, does that now...

00:35:39.619 --> 00:35:44.619
 Does that, like, everybody else is perfect, but this one kid trips and gets in their knee one time and touches another one?

00:35:44.619 --> 00:35:48.619
 Does that all of a sudden cast people on God, like, who allowed this to happen?

00:35:48.619 --> 00:35:51.619
 Like, this is a very theoretical sort of argument.

00:35:51.619 --> 00:35:52.619
 Right, right.

00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:57.619
 But the point being, like, if you reason about it, like, is that really the right thing?

00:35:57.619 --> 00:36:01.619
 It's kind of like, I'm making like an argument from contradiction.

00:36:01.619 --> 00:36:09.619
 Like, that's almost a calling if you live in a world where everybody lives identical lifestyles.

00:36:09.619 --> 00:36:20.619
 And yet, you know, any deviation from that would give you some sort of cause to accuse God of like, well, you could have made everybody perfect.

00:36:20.619 --> 00:36:22.619
 Like, that is to say, what is your definition?

00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:26.619
 Okay, so, pull that thought forward.

00:36:26.619 --> 00:36:30.619
 He did make everyone perfect, originally.

00:36:30.619 --> 00:36:32.619
 And we can taste that.

00:36:32.619 --> 00:36:33.619
 Yeah.

00:36:33.619 --> 00:36:40.619
 So, then the fact that people in the world, what's our piece of that?

00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:42.619
 Well, I guess, yeah.

00:36:42.619 --> 00:36:49.619
 And God, who is not going to come here and say, you must bow down to me, you must love me, you must...

00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:52.619
 He's like, no, I'm giving you an invitation.

00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:55.619
 And I'm giving you all the reasons why this is a good idea.

00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:58.619
 And it's your, you know, it's your decision.

00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:00.619
 I'm giving you an invitation.

00:37:00.619 --> 00:37:05.619
 Yeah, I've heard you guys that, my whole life, as a child, I was angry with God.

00:37:05.619 --> 00:37:11.619
 I couldn't understand why did you do this when I was like this, and, you know, that's all the stories that were out of my heart.

00:37:11.619 --> 00:37:17.619
 And I started realizing that, like, God is so much better than any difficult area.

00:37:17.619 --> 00:37:18.619
 And I was like, I don't want to leave you alone, that's all the stories that were out of my heart.

00:37:18.619 --> 00:37:19.619
 And I don't want to leave you alone.

00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:33.619
 And that encounter made me understand that it's not extremely worth doubting over the world, or troubling, or compared to what I see, what I see God, and experience it.

00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:41.619
 And I'm sure that there's other conversations about why did God allow us to eat?

00:37:41.619 --> 00:37:49.619
 I don't know, but I do know that it's gonna, if there's gonna be a day when this is even a glorious, like, the Psalm 119 says,

00:37:49.619 --> 00:37:54.619
 It was good that you, that you afflicted me.

00:37:54.619 --> 00:37:56.619
 It was such a terrible moment.

00:37:56.619 --> 00:37:58.619
 Before I was afflicted, I went astray.

00:37:58.619 --> 00:37:59.619
 But now I'm with you.

00:37:59.619 --> 00:38:00.619
 That's great.

00:38:00.619 --> 00:38:01.619
 That's great.

00:38:01.619 --> 00:38:05.619
 Something that was interesting, you know, I don't do to our...

00:38:05.619 --> 00:38:07.619
 I think it was a lighter discussion.

00:38:07.619 --> 00:38:14.619
 You're gonna say, like, even in the world where you need to test people, why do you miss particular things?

00:38:14.619 --> 00:38:15.619
 What is your problem?

00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:21.619
 I came to build a board, I grew up in a Christian, I came to build a board.

00:38:21.619 --> 00:38:36.619
 I'm older and have a lot of friends that I have stayed with who find me ridiculous and my beliefs ridiculous and are very thoughtful in their adversarial perspectives.

00:38:36.619 --> 00:38:53.619
 And I think that, you know, if you go back to creation, part of what's incredible about creation is that the Lord has inaugurated a veil.

00:38:53.619 --> 00:38:56.619
 And we can't see beyond that veil.

00:38:56.619 --> 00:38:57.619
 What are we supposed to do?

00:38:57.619 --> 00:38:58.619
 Yeah.

00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:02.619
 And you can itemize aspects of that veil.

00:39:02.619 --> 00:39:04.619
 One of them is death.

00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:06.619
 We can't transcend that veil.

00:39:06.619 --> 00:39:10.619
 We don't know what has happened to our loved ones.

00:39:10.619 --> 00:39:13.619
 It was just a way of the children who had no idea.

00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:22.619
 And so, to make these assumptions that I make as a believer, compared to my friends who are adversarial to that,

00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:26.619
 that there is a platform of trust.

00:39:26.619 --> 00:39:31.619
 I have made a decision to trust some things that I cannot see.

00:39:31.619 --> 00:39:46.619
 And that's somewhat illuminating the notion of race and faith that has been conveyed to me.

00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:48.619
 I just read today,

00:39:48.619 --> 00:39:49.619
 B. Ho,

00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:50.619
 Frederick B. Ho,

00:39:50.619 --> 00:39:52.619
 Christian Apologist writer,

00:39:52.619 --> 00:40:04.619
 he's talking about this exact topic and he talks about that God can raise to people, believers, a capacity.

00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:06.619
 And he's very careful.

00:40:06.619 --> 00:40:08.619
 He doesn't define any of this.

00:40:08.619 --> 00:40:10.619
 He talks about the verb convey.

00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:12.619
 He's looking at the knowledge factor.

00:40:12.619 --> 00:40:14.619
 I've got a answer to their people.

00:40:14.619 --> 00:40:16.619
 He's looking at the truth.

00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:18.619
 One more minute.

00:40:18.619 --> 00:40:19.619
 Everyone.

00:40:19.619 --> 00:40:20.619
 I've got a question about this.

00:40:20.619 --> 00:40:21.619
 I'm just getting ready to answer.

00:40:21.619 --> 00:40:22.619
 Okay?

00:40:22.619 --> 00:40:23.619
 Well,

00:40:23.619 --> 00:40:24.619
 Yeah.

00:40:24.619 --> 00:40:25.619
 I choose to do that.

00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:28.619
 I think this will be chapter 11 is church.

00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:29.619
 And then earlier,

00:40:29.619 --> 00:40:30.619
 you're coming up to church.

00:40:30.619 --> 00:40:31.619
 There's this amazing.

00:40:31.619 --> 00:40:32.619
 Who are you here?

00:40:32.619 --> 00:40:34.619
 I do not know I'm just talking about that.

00:40:34.619 --> 00:40:35.619
 Yes.

00:40:35.619 --> 00:40:36.619
 Yes.

00:40:36.619 --> 00:40:37.619
 Yes.

00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:38.619
 Yes.

00:40:38.619 --> 00:40:39.619
 Yes.

00:40:39.619 --> 00:40:40.619
 Yes.

00:40:40.619 --> 00:40:41.619
 Yes.

00:40:41.619 --> 00:41:08.839
 All right.

00:41:08.839 --> 00:41:08.940
 All right.

00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:09.019
 Okay.

00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:17.940
 Feel free to sit so that your teammates can kick you if you don't answer correctly.

00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:25.820
 All right, Tyler.

00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:28.840
 Teams, let's get back together.

00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:29.320
 All right.

00:41:29.420 --> 00:41:33.079
 So there were two questions you were asked to discuss in your group.

00:41:33.940 --> 00:41:36.880
 First was, these problems I highlighted.

00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.820
 Maybe we start off like, what are some of the examples?

00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:46.480
 The problem of evil and the tension with problem of evil and the problem of responsibility.

00:41:47.680 --> 00:41:49.460
 What are some examples in scripture?

00:41:49.460 --> 00:41:53.539
 We talked about Pharaoh's.

00:41:53.720 --> 00:41:54.920
 Ah, yes.

00:41:55.059 --> 00:41:58.420
 Pharaoh hardening his heart, but God hardening Pharaoh's heart for his glory.

00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:00.000
 Exactly.

00:42:00.539 --> 00:42:00.860
 Yeah.

00:42:00.860 --> 00:42:07.920
 That is almost like the classic passage on responsibility because it says them both.

00:42:09.579 --> 00:42:10.180
 Yeah.

00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:11.039
 It says them both.

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.920
 And it's actually completely fine with that tension.

00:42:15.660 --> 00:42:16.260
 Okay.

00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:17.680
 How about the problem of evil?

00:42:21.720 --> 00:42:24.000
 We came up with a couple of ideas.

00:42:24.340 --> 00:42:27.060
 First of all, we don't have God's perspective.

00:42:27.620 --> 00:42:29.160
 So what we might necessarily...

00:42:29.160 --> 00:42:30.400
 Kim, let me pause you just a little.

00:42:30.740 --> 00:42:31.780
 The first is the example.

00:42:31.940 --> 00:42:35.460
 What was an example in scripture that highlights the problem of evil?

00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:36.460
 Guys.

00:42:38.099 --> 00:42:38.800
 Is it Job?

00:42:39.220 --> 00:42:40.380
 Ah, yes.

00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:42.639
 Job, I think, is the...

00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:44.860
 Also like the classic example.

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.579
 That was what I was saying to us in like that book will come up later on.

00:42:49.900 --> 00:42:54.960
 Like Job fully addresses, especially when good people go through evil.

00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:56.679
 That is almost meaningless.

00:42:57.039 --> 00:42:57.460
 Like it's...

00:42:58.539 --> 00:42:59.460
 How does this...

00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:00.519
 Why does this happen?

00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:01.139
 All right.

00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:01.420
 Great.

00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:02.320
 Thank you.

00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:03.119
 Thank you, Brett.

00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:03.840
 All right.

00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:05.400
 Kim, you're saying...

00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:11.519
 And also the senseless versus senseless.

00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:12.079
 Mm-hmm.

00:43:12.139 --> 00:43:19.059
 That, okay, senseless to us in terms of the Holocaust or something along that line.

00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:21.579
 Where is the good that comes out of that?

00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:32.360
 And I think we've seen some of that and God may have more to reveal to us in situations like that.

00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:42.360
 There is also, from the New Testament, talking about the boy that was born blind.

00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:42.940
 Mm-hmm.

00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:43.220
 Yes.

00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:44.480
 Yes.

00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:48.579
 And the son that was constantly throwing himself into the fire.

00:43:48.579 --> 00:43:57.779
 So you have these presumably innocent people that were afflicted in a way that didn't seem to some extent fair.

00:43:57.780 --> 00:44:01.680
 But Christ said, this is for God's glory.

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:02.140
 Yeah.

00:44:02.140 --> 00:44:08.480
 So in some respects, we have to trust that that's what it's there for.

00:44:08.740 --> 00:44:09.140
 Okay.

00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:11.040
 I hear a couple of them.

00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:13.600
 Anyone else?

00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:16.420
 Before I go to the next group, did Kim capture it?

00:44:16.420 --> 00:44:19.260
 I wanted you to stay in your group so you could kick and be like, why?

00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:20.420
 That's not what we said.

00:44:22.420 --> 00:44:23.300
 I'm kidding.

00:44:25.099 --> 00:44:25.700
 All right.

00:44:25.900 --> 00:44:26.840
 Thank you very much, Kim.

00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:27.740
 Appreciate it.

00:44:28.180 --> 00:44:28.460
 Okay.

00:44:29.720 --> 00:44:30.780
 The group at the back.

00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:31.139
 Anyone?

00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:33.860
 John, why don't you give a summary?

00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:35.559
 Let me just...

00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:38.460
 I used to be a teacher when I was in college.

00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:42.240
 I used to teach high school math and physics.

00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.959
 So some of these behaviors, they just come up.

00:44:45.859 --> 00:44:47.279
 All right.

00:44:47.319 --> 00:44:48.619
 I think Tyler was about to go, John.

00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:49.799
 Let me spare you.

00:44:49.919 --> 00:44:50.339
 All right, Tyler.

00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:52.279
 Oh, okay.

00:44:52.539 --> 00:44:58.579
 So we talk anecdotally about our own lives, about how God brought us to himself and our salvation.

00:44:59.439 --> 00:45:05.639
 And some of those things that happened were pretty horrible things and same hook shooting.

00:45:06.279 --> 00:45:09.259
 And God is not the one pulling the trigger at the children.

00:45:09.260 --> 00:45:13.680
 But yet, at the same time, we can say God has ordained those things.

00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:20.240
 And Melissa's salvation, part of that, her testimony is that that event's brought her to Christ.

00:45:21.200 --> 00:45:26.820
 Seeing true evil and injustice and what is God's wrath against sin.

00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:30.560
 What does it mean when I know that I'm the sinner?

00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:34.440
 So I think we just experience it personally.

00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:42.480
 And we know God, looking back, that God works out some of those horrible things for our good, including our salvation.

00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:43.400
 Yeah.

00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:44.420
 Amen.

00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:46.920
 Anyone else?

00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:49.000
 All right.

00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:49.579
 Group three.

00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:52.119
 Anyone want to share?

00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:53.119
 Sure.

00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:53.400
 Sure.

00:45:54.099 --> 00:45:58.559
 We also, I talked about a similar, many of you know, I was born with a heart defect.

00:45:58.799 --> 00:46:02.319
 And I was so angry with God in my entire childhood about that.

00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:04.980
 Why would you let me, why would you let this happen to me?

00:46:05.579 --> 00:46:10.699
 And then when I, then he kind of, I encountered him.

00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:18.719
 And it was just this overwhelming experience of seeing him and knowing him and trusting him.

00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:23.359
 And the answer, I guess the solution was God's been worth this for good.

00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:25.279
 And that is a trustworthy thing.

00:46:26.139 --> 00:46:26.599
 How?

00:46:26.779 --> 00:46:27.639
 I'm not always sure.

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:29.639
 But he will.

00:46:30.099 --> 00:46:32.500
 And it's a glorious, wonderful truth.

00:46:34.859 --> 00:46:42.159
 But that was something that I took for very evil in my life that then brought me to Christ.

00:46:44.799 --> 00:46:45.239
 Yeah.

00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:48.959
 No, thank you all for sharing.

00:46:49.099 --> 00:46:50.579
 I think those are, those are interesting.

00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:55.719
 Actually, those are, those are scriptural perspectives and how we address some of these questions.

00:46:56.339 --> 00:47:00.379
 Given I spend a little more time thinking about it than you guys may have had in the 10 minutes,

00:47:00.479 --> 00:47:03.919
 I have a few that I think just to crystallize what we heard.

00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:08.199
 I think the biggest thing that I think is common theme is the greater good approach,

00:47:08.699 --> 00:47:13.599
 which is that God uses evil to accomplish a greater good.

00:47:13.599 --> 00:47:17.400
 And I think that's your example, Melissa.

00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:24.860
 It's the idea that even in, in, even sometimes in things that are senseless, like God works,

00:47:25.160 --> 00:47:31.380
 as we studied over the summer in Romans 8, for we know in all things, God works for the good of them that love him

00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:33.039
 and are called according to his purpose.

00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:36.079
 It says all things, not some things, in all things good and bad.

00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:40.960
 The previous section had talked about in some of the trials, I think, and some of the challenges we've gone through.

00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:44.639
 And he also outlines later on that they were going to go through trials.

00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:51.000
 But the idea, the core is, is the idea that all things, God is working good.

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:57.699
 He's working good, greater good, many of which we can't see, many of which we cannot see.

00:47:57.699 --> 00:48:04.939
 Now, the second one, the greater good, some of these things do have their own challenges and limitations.

00:48:05.339 --> 00:48:10.919
 And I think it, it has a conclusion for us, uh, or an implication for us as we, as we wrap up soon.

00:48:11.279 --> 00:48:13.919
 But the second one is the reality of sin.

00:48:14.460 --> 00:48:16.199
 God created the world good.

00:48:16.279 --> 00:48:22.460
 Like when we respond, especially the problem of evil, but we sinned and the world was cursed on the, on our, yeah.

00:48:22.460 --> 00:48:27.059
 Like, you know, God created the world seven days in Genesis one, and he said, it was good.

00:48:27.460 --> 00:48:28.380
 It was good.

00:48:28.720 --> 00:48:32.740
 And then when Adam's sin is like, cursed is the ground because of you.

00:48:32.900 --> 00:48:41.720
 Like it's creation in some way is as Romans eight, again, and interestingly, that we studied in the summer talks about creation is in groaning,

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.880
 waiting for the day that it is liberated from this bondage.

00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:52.019
 When we are in some way fully enter into our inheritance, um, as children of God.

00:48:52.019 --> 00:48:57.579
 So there is the reality of sin, sin, um, both like you would say the original sin,

00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:03.139
 many of which you could say echoing the natural, the fact that the world itself is broken as a result.

00:49:03.340 --> 00:49:06.239
 And then there is also the sin of our actions.

00:49:06.380 --> 00:49:07.719
 Our actions have consequences.

00:49:08.019 --> 00:49:14.400
 And so like when we sin or when we do things that violate God's will, yeah, there are consequences that would happen.

00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:22.920
 Listen, um, Jesus actually, if you read John five, the man that was, that was waiting at the pool of bedside.

00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:23.900
 I think it's a pool of bedside.

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.700
 I was waiting for the angel to go in and stir the water.

00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:27.960
 Jesus heals him.

00:49:28.539 --> 00:49:31.340
 Jesus comes back to him and says, now you are whole again.

00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:32.960
 Stop sinning.

00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:35.079
 Else something worse could happen to you.

00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:41.039
 So Jesus makes the connection between, he doesn't, he doesn't expand on the sin,

00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:49.019
 but essentially reminds him like there is a connection between what he is doing and sort of the affliction he had.

00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:53.420
 So sin, some of the things that we could argue that we are doing to the world itself,

00:49:53.420 --> 00:50:00.380
 you could argue some of the policies we may advocate in government, in the world that we live in and the country that we live in,

00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:03.659
 actually could drive results of the things that we see downstream.

00:50:04.039 --> 00:50:06.360
 And it's like there are, our actions have consequences.

00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.920
 Our sinful actions have consequences and some of the evil that we see.

00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:13.200
 Yet it's not always.

00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:17.119
 When the disciples, the Israelites were steeped in that philosophy.

00:50:17.300 --> 00:50:21.420
 And so the story you mentioned came around the man who was born blind.

00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:23.079
 It's like, so who sinned?

00:50:23.200 --> 00:50:24.220
 This man who is father.

00:50:25.220 --> 00:50:30.099
 And God's, and Jesus was like, neither, but that God's glory may be revealed.

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.159
 So that brings to the third one, which is a mystery.

00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.639
 I think it's an interesting idea.

00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:45.700
 And I think I heard it, Brian, you were describing about the veil in your, in the group that I came to your group,

00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:50.780
 that there is a deep mystery around some of the things God does.

00:50:50.780 --> 00:50:53.900
 Not everything is fully revealed to us.

00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:03.660
 That was essentially, and that we, we know only in part, regardless of how deeply we think we know and think, we don't know everything.

00:51:04.560 --> 00:51:07.540
 And that was actually how God answered Job.

00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:11.440
 So the book of Job is the book of, I mean, many of us would know the story.

00:51:12.120 --> 00:51:16.900
 Job essentially was a righteous man, proclaimed by God as righteous.

00:51:16.900 --> 00:51:20.380
 God was boasting to Job, to the devil about Job.

00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:21.400
 Like, have you seen him?

00:51:22.160 --> 00:51:24.500
 Great guy, righteous, there's no one like him.

00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:29.700
 And it's like, oh, you know, Job serves you for, you know, the things you bless him with, let me afflict him.

00:51:30.139 --> 00:51:33.019
 And God says, you know, yeah, you can do anything, but don't touch his life.

00:51:33.139 --> 00:51:34.119
 That's actually providence.

00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:41.819
 You know, the fact that like, providence at work, all that was happening in Job's life had been circumscribed by God.

00:51:42.139 --> 00:51:43.639
 But then Job wrestles with it.

00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:49.460
 We hear about, you know, the first part of Job's response, you know, the Lord gives, the Lord takes away, blessed be his name.

00:51:49.539 --> 00:51:54.259
 But the rest of the book is Job just anguishly lashing out.

00:51:54.579 --> 00:51:55.980
 Like, why is this happening?

00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:58.639
 God, like, let God show up.

00:51:58.719 --> 00:51:59.579
 I need an advocate.

00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:09.000
 Like, you know, I can't answer God on my own, but if he was an advocate to restrain his power, then I would speak to him like, I would speak to him face to face and say, you have done wrong.

00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:14.119
 And so God eventually shows up in chapter 7, 37, 38, I think.

00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:19.000
 And God begins by asking Job a few questions.

00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:19.440
 Yeah.

00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:21.500
 Okay, I'm here.

00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:27.179
 Before I answer you, though, I will give you a long list of questions.

00:52:27.179 --> 00:52:30.179
 And God starts asking him how creation works.

00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:32.039
 You say you're pretty wise, no?

00:52:32.259 --> 00:52:33.480
 Okay, well, tell me how.

00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:38.839
 And Job slowly begins to realize that he doesn't know very much.

00:52:39.219 --> 00:52:45.259
 And so the basis of his argument before God was he knew enough to bring an accusation.

00:52:45.359 --> 00:52:46.859
 Yeah, like, God has not been fair.

00:52:47.399 --> 00:52:51.319
 And God essentially was expanding his awareness of his ignorance.

00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:53.779
 There's so much in this world you don't know.

00:52:53.780 --> 00:52:59.740
 And so in this particular case, how can you say that you know enough to bring me to justice?

00:53:00.660 --> 00:53:00.840
 You know?

00:53:01.080 --> 00:53:02.800
 And Job was humbled by that.

00:53:03.140 --> 00:53:04.160
 And so there's mystery.

00:53:04.600 --> 00:53:07.660
 Now, some people take mystery in a fatalistic life.

00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:08.920
 We can't know anything.

00:53:09.460 --> 00:53:11.420
 That's not how mystery works.

00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:15.240
 Mystery says we can know some things, but not all things.

00:53:15.940 --> 00:53:18.980
 The secret things belong to God, I think it says in Deuteronomy 29.

00:53:19.420 --> 00:53:22.660
 But the things he's revealed to us belong to us and our children forever.

00:53:22.659 --> 00:53:26.719
 There are things that God has revealed and we should be confident that we can know those things.

00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:32.259
 But there are things that God has not revealed that we should recognize we don't know.

00:53:34.319 --> 00:53:41.659
 G.K. Chesterton's book, Orthodoxy, has this brilliant illustration that I've always found about the limit of what we know

00:53:41.659 --> 00:53:43.319
 and how we can be humble about what we know.

00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:56.880
 It's like, imagine an alien race comes and observes us humans and it sees, oh, we have two eyes, two arms, two legs, we have two lungs, two kidneys.

00:53:57.720 --> 00:53:58.340
 And like, ah.

00:53:58.340 --> 00:54:05.780
 It's like, so we must definitely have two hearts and two livers, which we do not have.

00:54:06.340 --> 00:54:07.120
 We don't have.

00:54:07.180 --> 00:54:13.260
 But like, by logical deduction on the things we have seen, we make inferences about some of the things we don't see.

00:54:13.860 --> 00:54:17.000
 And I think sometimes I was recognizing that there are limits.

00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:21.260
 Because, no, we don't have two hearts and none of us walk around thinking, that is illogical.

00:54:21.539 --> 00:54:22.760
 Why do we not have two hearts?

00:54:23.099 --> 00:54:23.800
 No, we don't.

00:54:23.860 --> 00:54:25.280
 Maybe now you will start thinking about it.

00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:28.440
 But we don't do that.

00:54:28.780 --> 00:54:29.679
 And I think it's the same.

00:54:30.099 --> 00:54:32.340
 Like, God has revealed a few things.

00:54:32.900 --> 00:54:37.860
 And then we sometimes logically try and deduce some of the things that are not true.

00:54:37.860 --> 00:54:44.380
 I mean, I think that's why even when we deduce things, we come back to what Scripture acknowledges and what it doesn't acknowledge.

00:54:44.620 --> 00:54:48.079
 And acknowledge that somewhere in there is a mystery we don't understand.

00:54:48.860 --> 00:54:56.579
 And that actually is the problem that addresses some of the problems with responsibility and God's sovereignty and our responsibility.

00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:03.680
 Everywhere we are giving, God works through, sometimes through evil means, actually.

00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:09.699
 But Scripture never ascribes to God evil intentions or that God delights in evil.

00:55:11.059 --> 00:55:20.899
 And so this question around what does that mean, what language, for example, do we use to describe God's relationship with evil is mysterious.

00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:25.139
 Like, we sometimes get around and say God allows it but doesn't delight.

00:55:25.279 --> 00:55:31.619
 But, you know, sometimes we need to be careful that we don't try and ascribe, like, God's allowance as, like, a weaker.

00:55:31.619 --> 00:55:33.659
 Like, God's will is God's will.

00:55:33.779 --> 00:55:37.679
 And we can recognize that in some ways we just don't understand it.

00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:40.039
 So Scripture does try and address these.

00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.960
 We're recognizing that greater good, even the greater good, the greater good response.

00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:53.219
 Sometimes it is, how does somebody dying or how do these children being to their own greater good?

00:55:53.319 --> 00:55:53.920
 Well, it's good.

00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:57.279
 I mean, if I was cynical, some would say it's good for you, Melissa.

00:55:57.699 --> 00:55:59.259
 But how is it good for the kid?

00:55:59.500 --> 00:56:00.900
 How is it good for their parents?

00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:07.099
 And I think sometimes it's in humble recognition that some we don't always know.

00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:19.840
 But then there's one more, like, almost like a, even when we don't know, what we can acknowledge is we have a God who suffers with us through evil.

00:56:20.300 --> 00:56:21.840
 And actually, that's one of the greatest arguments.

00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:28.079
 Like, when you think about Jesus, God did not just think about evil and it's not an intellectual thing.

00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:31.180
 God knows the pain and God knows the suffering.

00:56:31.579 --> 00:56:33.880
 And so there is a compassion.

00:56:34.100 --> 00:56:36.059
 Compassion literally means co-suffering.

00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:38.320
 There is a compassion about God.

00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:45.760
 Like, even when we don't understand how he works, the Bible reminds us that in Jesus, God takes on our suffering.

00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:53.460
 He sits with us in our suffering and also longs with us for the day that we are liberated from it.

00:56:53.600 --> 00:56:55.840
 So, and many times you think about Job's friends.

00:56:56.200 --> 00:57:05.820
 Before they landed in trouble of trying to solve his problems, the Bible records that when they came and they saw his sorrow, they sat with him for seven days and they said nothing.

00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:15.880
 And sometimes that idea of co-being with people in their suffering without trying to even answer or address with theories is sometimes the best we can do.

00:57:16.340 --> 00:57:23.660
 Because God in Christ has given us an example of carrying each other's burdens through Christ.

00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:26.660
 So, that's how Scripture addresses its sense.

00:57:26.840 --> 00:57:31.580
 So, I'll probably rush a little bit quickly to what are the lessons for us in God's providence.

00:57:31.579 --> 00:57:41.219
 So, how do we, the goal of providence or goal of some of these things we discuss about how God works, they're not primarily for our abstract.

00:57:41.779 --> 00:57:45.079
 They're primarily for how we live and how we walk in faith.

00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:49.920
 The first one is for us to not be afraid or to trust God.

00:57:49.920 --> 00:58:02.500
 I grew up, I would say, in a background that didn't really emphasize, that emphasized, you could say, a lot more of human responsibility as opposed to this belief in the sovereignty of God.

00:58:02.579 --> 00:58:05.599
 And I think those are the tensions on the extreme end.

00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:13.260
 Calvinists are sometimes accused of putting all things on God and no human responsibility.

00:58:13.260 --> 00:58:18.320
 And then you have like, Armenians on the other hand that fall into the opposite trap.

00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:26.440
 I think it is recognizing that even though we may not understand it as those who belong to the reformed tradition, we have responsibility.

00:58:27.080 --> 00:58:27.860
 And we have action.

00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:28.500
 We should act.

00:58:28.640 --> 00:58:36.120
 But we should remember that the safety net of all of our decisions is the sovereignty of God.

00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:40.580
 It is his providence and his ability to work all things for our good.

00:58:40.579 --> 00:58:44.739
 While we discern, while we do, it should free us from worry.

00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.880
 And I think Tyler concluded with that last time in his lecture.

00:58:49.659 --> 00:58:51.179
 It should free us from worry.

00:58:51.699 --> 00:58:52.559
 We should plan.

00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:53.319
 We should think.

00:58:53.759 --> 00:58:54.840
 We should consider.

00:58:55.699 --> 00:59:02.759
 But when we trust, we should also like, God is able to accomplish more than we can imagine.

00:59:05.059 --> 00:59:07.659
 The second one is joy and worship.

00:59:07.659 --> 00:59:11.719
 It's like in Psalm 97 verse 1, the Lord reigns.

00:59:12.219 --> 00:59:13.359
 Let the earth be glad.

00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:22.199
 It's not a, it's not a, sometimes people, I guess it arises sometimes out of our, the tension of our relationship with authority.

00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:23.839
 Especially people in the West.

00:59:24.619 --> 00:59:25.679
 But God reigns.

00:59:25.799 --> 00:59:29.980
 I remember when I, the first time I heard that verse truly, I remember thinking,

00:59:29.980 --> 00:59:36.659
 what if someone announced today that my mom is president of like the country I grew up in?

00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:38.099
 I would be so pumped.

00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:39.579
 Like, it's like, wow.

00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:44.099
 Because I, I know the person who's governing everything.

00:59:44.240 --> 00:59:45.420
 And Nigeria is a little bit different.

00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:49.860
 Maybe it's a little bit more autocratic than America.

00:59:49.860 --> 00:59:52.400
 So the president has a lot of real power.

00:59:53.539 --> 00:59:54.980
 But that's my point.

00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:57.240
 I would be, I would be excited.

00:59:57.500 --> 01:00:00.599
 And I think we are reminded, God reigns.

01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:01.519
 Let the earth be glad.

01:00:01.640 --> 01:00:07.400
 Like, the person who has such power, control, authority is good.

01:00:07.620 --> 01:00:09.160
 And does that for good.

01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:12.719
 And so we should be, we should rejoice and we should worship.

01:00:13.219 --> 01:00:18.139
 We should thank God for, we should worship him because no one else has that power.

01:00:18.319 --> 01:00:19.019
 He does.

01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:20.099
 And he is good.

01:00:20.399 --> 01:00:21.359
 And he is kind.

01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:22.839
 And he is wise and powerful.

01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:25.519
 And so he should awaken us this attitude of worship.

01:00:26.019 --> 01:00:28.879
 And God's providence is at work in the world.

01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:32.379
 Providence is not fatalism, like I mentioned briefly.

01:00:32.859 --> 01:00:35.299
 Our actions are real and they have an impact.

01:00:35.539 --> 01:00:38.739
 And they're often means through which God realizes his purpose.

01:00:38.739 --> 01:00:46.719
 There's a story in Nehemiah chapter 4 verse 8 to 9 where they hear about an attack coming.

01:00:47.439 --> 01:00:51.019
 And the Bible says Nehemiah prayed and we prayed and we posted a guard.

01:00:51.739 --> 01:00:56.500
 Like, there's no tension between, you know, believing in God and actually taking wise action.

01:00:56.699 --> 01:01:03.719
 Because wise action is often the means through which God works to achieve even the ends he wants.

01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:09.199
 So, uh, we should not make us, you know, what will be, will be.

01:01:09.779 --> 01:01:10.739
 We do have action.

01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:21.699
 We do have, Paul says, you know, even in the New Testament, there's this passage where Paul was talking about how, you know, are you a slave when you were made, when you became a Christian?

01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:22.719
 Paraphrasing.

01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:26.319
 Like, it's like, yeah, don't be, don't be anxious about it.

01:01:26.839 --> 01:01:30.919
 But if there's a means for you to be free, try and be free.

01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:32.980
 It's not a, it's not fatalistic.

01:01:33.099 --> 01:01:34.839
 Our actions have consequences.

01:01:35.379 --> 01:01:37.599
 We are encouraged to take action.

01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:42.539
 But taking action in the confidence and assurance of a sovereign God.

01:01:43.059 --> 01:01:45.239
 But our actions should be guided by prayer.

01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:48.739
 I think that verse that I quoted on Nehemiah is that right tension.

01:01:49.319 --> 01:01:51.199
 We prayed and we posted a guard.

01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:54.399
 Sometimes we err towards action.

01:01:54.959 --> 01:01:56.539
 Whereas we need to pray.

01:01:56.939 --> 01:02:06.039
 Remember when David was going to, um, the reason why we pray is because sometimes God reveals to us his deeper purposes at work.

01:02:06.139 --> 01:02:08.919
 And that actually guides exactly what actions to take.

01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:13.259
 David was going to be attacked and he was like, oh, you know, Lord, should I go?

01:02:13.339 --> 01:02:13.859
 Should I come?

01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:15.500
 And God's like, yeah, you can go.

01:02:16.880 --> 01:02:20.320
 There was a war about to break out in Israel when Rehoboam became king.

01:02:20.660 --> 01:02:22.840
 And they had mustered the armies and were about to fight.

01:02:23.180 --> 01:02:24.880
 And God was like, everyone go home.

01:02:25.120 --> 01:02:25.900
 This is from me.

01:02:26.599 --> 01:02:27.220
 Don't fight.

01:02:27.980 --> 01:02:36.220
 When we don't pray, we sometimes lose out on, Bible says, you know, if anyone lacks wisdom, let him ask God who gives generously.

01:02:36.900 --> 01:02:38.500
 So if you don't have wisdom, ask.

01:02:38.500 --> 01:02:39.240
 You never know.

01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:48.759
 So God could reveal how then you can act wisely to take advantage or to walk in line with what he's already doing.

01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:54.340
 I think the final thing is a reminder to be humble.

01:02:55.840 --> 01:03:01.540
 Especially when we disagree, when we engage people who may have challenges in some of these topics.

01:03:02.220 --> 01:03:08.620
 There are still tensions in some of the, these tensions are not being fully resolved.

01:03:08.619 --> 01:03:10.059
 We are partly resolved.

01:03:10.059 --> 01:03:18.500
 Like we should, we should be willing to admit, recognizing that, like Brian said in his breakout group, there are things we do not know.

01:03:18.839 --> 01:03:25.079
 And that humility should make us open to hearing how people resolve it, to think about it.

01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:30.000
 But ultimately remember that, Lord, we know in part, one day you will know fully.

01:03:30.340 --> 01:03:39.039
 Paul uses this in Philippians 3.15 when he was talking to, that if on some reason you think differently, God will make clear to you.

01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:42.699
 So we should pray with those, pray for those who may have different perspectives.

01:03:42.699 --> 01:03:46.739
 Like, Lord, if this is clear to me but not clear to them, Lord, make it clear.

01:03:46.739 --> 01:03:51.199
 Because, yeah, not everything is clear to everyone at the same time.

01:03:51.919 --> 01:04:00.779
 And so this is kind of how all of these, we can bring these passages or like this doctrine of providence into practice.

01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:09.299
 How we can be more joyful, more faithful, more trusting, kind of more humble.

01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:12.000
 And also be bolder in action.

01:04:12.620 --> 01:04:18.660
 Knowing that God, I think Tyler said it in his talk again, God is for us.

01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:22.760
 And God is working to accomplish his purposes, good purposes for his children.

01:04:23.300 --> 01:04:28.140
 And that should make us kind of bold, kind, loving people in the world.

01:04:29.980 --> 01:04:32.220
 With that, I think, any questions?

01:04:32.700 --> 01:04:33.700
 Otherwise, I would pray.

01:04:36.080 --> 01:04:37.760
 Okay, let us pray.

01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:47.520
 Lord Jesus, thank you so much for how we are reminded, God, that you are our work in the world.

01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:50.700
 Every good and perfect gift comes from above.

01:04:50.860 --> 01:04:56.200
 And so when we see good in the world, we can rejoice and celebrate the reminder of your work.

01:04:56.980 --> 01:05:04.840
 And sometimes when we see things that are not good, Lord, we can react to the Lord in faith and trust.

01:05:04.840 --> 01:05:12.680
 Even when we are in anguish, a bedrock that you, Lord, are good, are good and wise.

01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:25.440
 We pray, Lord Jesus, that as we go into the season, go into the week, help us, Lord, to continue to ponder, enjoy and worship on this doctrine, God.

01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:34.000
 And to rejoice that you, as King of all, to long for the day when you are crowned King, God, in front of all the nations, Lord.

01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:38.320
 And to engage, O Lord, with humility and hope with those around us.

01:05:38.720 --> 01:05:41.360
 Knowing that, Lord, in all things you work for good.

01:05:41.740 --> 01:05:43.780
 And in all things you will ultimately take the glory.

01:05:44.940 --> 01:05:45.980
 I ask in Jesus' name.

01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:47.079
 Amen.

01:05:47.079 --> 01:05:47.199
 Amen.

01:05:48.900 --> 01:05:49.219
 Oops.