WEBVTT

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 Well, we continue in our series based on the book, The Christian Atheist,

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 which is based on this idea that it's possible to say that we believe in God,

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 but live as though God didn't exist.

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 And our theme today is a particularly challenging one,

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 when we claim to believe in God, but won't forgive others.

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 The founder of the organisation Care for the Family, Rob Parsons, is a brilliant storyteller.

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 He's just this year published a book, a collection of his favourite stories that he tells.

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 One of my favourites is a story that he tells of how he was on holiday with his family,

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 and his son was in his early teens.

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 And his son was pleading with him to take him fishing.

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 They had never been fishing before.

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 There was a lake there, and they could see lots of very expert-looking fishermen.

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 He pleaded and pleaded and pleaded, and in the end, Rob Parsons said that he said to his son,

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 all right, let's go, but we haven't got any equipment, we'll have to improvise.

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 So they found the straightest stick that they could find,

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 and a piece of string and a safety pin, and I don't know what they did for bait, but they set off.

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 And they realised that it wasn't that long before the other fishermen,

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 who had all the proper gear, were laughing.

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 Well, they stood there, sat there, waited and waited and waited,

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 and were catching nothing, and were getting quite fed up of these other fishermen laughing at them.

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 So, anyway, Rob Parsons said he came up with a plan,

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 and he said to his son that there's a shop over there where they actually sell fish.

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 Not living ones, those that have already been caught.

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 Pretty big ones, actually.

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 He said, if I just go and buy one, I'm sure that we can somehow fake it.

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 So, his son, to his surprise, actually agreed to this plan.

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 So he went off, and he bought the biggest fish, I don't know what type it was,

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 but the biggest, most beautiful looking fish that he could find.

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 Somehow smuggled it back to where his son was,

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 and as discreetly as they were able to,

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 he got the safety pin and fixed this fish to the end of the piece of string,

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 and somehow tried to sort of nudge it out into the water,

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 and then waited and pretended to be fishing properly,

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 until there were as many people sort of in the area as possible to be able to see it.

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 And then he gave his son a nudge and said, right, now.

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 So they then pulled this fish out of the water,

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 and it swung across the water and back to where they were standing.

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 And people started to laugh even more.

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 And those that were gathering had stopped to watch what was going on,

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 just walked away.

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 And Rob Parson said he turned around and saw his own son was collapsed on the floor on his back,

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 reeling in laughter.

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 He said to his son, what's so funny?

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 He said, well, two things, Dad.

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 Firstly, you could have at least made some effort to pretend that the fish was already dead.

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 You could have just sort of moved the string a little bit,

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 but not just pulled it out like that.

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 But secondly, you kind of gave the game away

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 when you put the safety pin through the fish's tail.

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 Giving the game away.

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 Letting on what's really going on inside.

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 That's what this whole series, The Christian Atheist, is about.

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 You see, it's one thing for us to sort of put on the outward signs

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 of what it is to be a Christian believer.

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 It's one thing for us to come to church,

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 to be part of church activity,

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 to do Christianity outwardly.

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 And yet, that doesn't necessarily correspond exactly

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 with what is going on on the inside of us.

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 And that's why this is a really, really challenging series.

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 It's a really, the book on which it's based,

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 is a really challenging read.

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 Because it really brings us face to face

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 with many of the core things

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 that we claim to believe as Christians,

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 that we purport to be about.

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 And forgiveness is surely one of the biggest challenges.

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 You see, we claim to stand for forgiveness.

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 The gospel is about forgiveness.

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 It's about the fact that each one of us,

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 whatever we have done, have been forgiven by God.

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 And therefore, we are called, we are invited,

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 we are challenged to be a people of forgiveness.

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 To forgive others as we have been forgiven.

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 And yet, I know that you know what I'm talking about

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 when I say that that can be really hard.

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 Really hard.

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 Let's just get this out on the table a little bit more.

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 Let's just think about why forgiving people

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 is such a tough challenge,

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 or can be such a difficult thing to do.

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 You see, I think one of the reasons why

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 forgiving people can be so difficult

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 is because there's something deep inside of us

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 that tells us instinctively

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 that somehow there's something right

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 about not forgiving somebody.

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 There's something deep within us.

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 When we're introduced to that theme of forgiveness,

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 not in the abstract sense,

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 but when we think of that particular person,

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 that I've got to be careful how I point here,

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 it's a hypothetical point, okay,

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 that that particular person out there

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 that has offended us,

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 that, yes, we've somehow got to forgive

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 what they've done.

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 That means we've got to let go of it.

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 Because something tells us

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 that we're somehow morally right

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 to withhold that forgiveness.

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 To forgive that person

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 when they've done something wrong

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 seems to go against the fabric

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 with which the moral universe

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 is constructed.

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 Now, it's perhaps a bit different

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 if there's some sense of remorse

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 in that person.

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 If they're sorry about what they've done

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 and they own what they've done,

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 then it may still be hard work,

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 but it probably makes a lot of difference.

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 But I'm thinking about those situations

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 when somebody's done something wrong

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 and they won't accept it.

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 And they will not own it

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 in any way whatsoever.

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 There is zero remorse.

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 There's something in those situations

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 that somehow makes us feel inwardly

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 that we would be doing something wrong

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 if we were to just sort of let that go.

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 Because it would seem to be a denial

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 of the reality of what they have done.

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 And so something deep inside of us

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 is just telling us,

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 but, you know,

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 you ought not really to let that go.

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 But also,

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 I think the other thing

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 that can make forgiveness

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 so challenging and so difficult

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 is that it might not be just us

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 that has been offended

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 by the actions of the other person.

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 For example,

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 it may not be us

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 that's been wronged at all.

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 It might be somebody else

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 that we know

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 that has been on the receiving end

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 of what that person has done wrong.

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 And so for us to forgive them

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 can present that question,

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 well,

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 what right have I got

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 to forgive that person

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 for what they've done

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 to that other person?

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 I don't have the right

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 to give that gift of forgiveness to them.

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 Who am I

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 to forgive them?

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 So it's hard

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 and it's tough.

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 And before we go any further,

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 I want to say

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 that God's word recognises this

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 and it understands it.

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 See,

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 like many things

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 that we read about in the Bible,

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 we need to remember

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 that the whole reason

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 why it is in the Bible

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 is because

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 it is a difficult thing.

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 So,

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 when we read

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 of Jesus' teaching

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 which commands us

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 to forgive others,

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 when we read

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 of Paul's writing

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 here in Ephesians

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 which talks of the importance

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 of forgiveness,

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 we need to remember

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 that there's a reason

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 why it's there.

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 If there were no issues,

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 if forgiveness was easy,

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 then why would God

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 ever bother

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 to put it in the Bible?

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 The easy stuff

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 ain't there

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 because it doesn't need

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 to be there.

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 You don't need to be told

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 the stuff

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 that you just do

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 automatically.

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 The only stuff

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 we do need to be told

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 is precisely that stuff

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 because it is so difficult.

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 So when we read

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 challenging verses

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 in Scripture,

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 don't be put off

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 by it.

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 Don't be made

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 to feel small

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 by it.

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 Remember,

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 it's not because

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 there's something

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 weird or unusual

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 about you

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 that finds it's difficult.

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 The reason it's there

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 is it's God's word

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 for the whole

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 of the human race,

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 throughout the whole

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 of history,

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 which means

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 the issues

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 that it talks about

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 very often

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 affect absolutely

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 every single human being

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 that has ever lived.

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 So yes,

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 it's difficult.

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 Yes,

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 it's challenging.

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 And that is why

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 it's there

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 because it is so hard

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 and it's so challenging.

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 So where do we go

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 with it then?

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 Well,

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 first thing I want to say,

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 and it has to do

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 with this sense

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 that inside of us

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 we may feel deeply

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 that there's something

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 right about

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 holding on

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 to what's been done

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 that we don't want

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 to let go of.

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 Let's remember

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 that the command

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 to forgive

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 does not sidestep

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 the issue

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 that wrong

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 has been done.

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 forgiveness

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 is not about

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 downplaying

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 the reality

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 of what's been

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 done wrong.

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 It's not about

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 sweeping it under the carpet.

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 It's not about

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 denying the gravity

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 of the hurt

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 that has taken place.

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 In Ephesians chapter 4,

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 which we just read,

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 in verse 26,

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 it says,

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 in your anger

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 do not sin.

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 Now just think about

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 what Paul might be

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 saying there.

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 He's saying

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 something that's

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 happened to you

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 that has made you angry,

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 don't sin

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 in your anger.

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 In other words,

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 there are two

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 separate entities there.

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 There's the anger

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 and there's the sin.

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 And what Paul is saying

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 that we need to be careful of

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 is the sin.

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 The anger itself

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 is not

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 inherently sinful.

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 In other words,

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 there is such a thing

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 as feeling angry,

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 as being angry,

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 but is not sinful.

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 If you've been

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 the receiving end

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 of something

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 and you find it

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 hard to forgive

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 and you're feeling angry,

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 that itself

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 is not wrong.

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 Which is why

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 Paul says,

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 in your anger

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 do not sin.

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 The question is

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 not whether we feel

00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:22.920
 angry or not,

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 the question is

00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:24.820
 what do we do

00:11:24.820 --> 00:11:26.060
 with that anger?

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 What takes place

00:11:28.520 --> 00:11:29.940
 with that anger?

00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:32.300
 Because there is

00:11:32.300 --> 00:11:32.980
 such a thing

00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:33.540
 as anger

00:11:33.540 --> 00:11:34.680
 that is not sinful.

00:11:36.020 --> 00:11:36.940
 So let's just

00:11:36.940 --> 00:11:37.560
 stay with this

00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:38.100
 because this is

00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:38.840
 so important.

00:11:39.540 --> 00:11:40.480
 The danger

00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:41.080
 is that we

00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:41.759
 misunderstand

00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:42.560
 what forgiveness

00:11:42.560 --> 00:11:43.160
 is about.

00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.820
 Forgiveness

00:11:43.820 --> 00:11:44.900
 is not about

00:11:44.900 --> 00:11:45.960
 changing the

00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:46.840
 objectivity

00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:47.920
 of the wrong

00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:49.400
 that has taken place.

00:11:50.300 --> 00:11:51.220
 One of my favourite,

00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:52.320
 probably in fact,

00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:53.139
 if I was asked

00:11:53.139 --> 00:11:53.520
 to say,

00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:54.780
 which part of

00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:55.580
 scripture do I feel

00:11:55.580 --> 00:11:56.280
 sums up the

00:11:56.280 --> 00:11:56.940
 Christian gospel

00:11:56.940 --> 00:11:57.740
 more than anything else,

00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:58.320
 I would go to

00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.580
 Luke chapter 15

00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:00.700
 and especially

00:12:00.700 --> 00:12:01.540
 the story

00:12:01.540 --> 00:12:02.879
 that Jesus tells,

00:12:03.220 --> 00:12:04.020
 as recorded in

00:12:04.020 --> 00:12:04.700
 Luke 15,

00:12:05.300 --> 00:12:06.860
 of the prodigal son.

00:12:07.560 --> 00:12:08.280
 The story

00:12:08.280 --> 00:12:08.660
 where he says

00:12:08.660 --> 00:12:09.560
 there's two sons,

00:12:09.900 --> 00:12:10.400
 one of them

00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:11.340
 turns to his father

00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:11.900
 and says,

00:12:12.780 --> 00:12:13.420
 Dad,

00:12:13.540 --> 00:12:15.560
 I want my share

00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:17.420
 of my inheritance

00:12:17.420 --> 00:12:18.040
 now.

00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:18.980
 One day

00:12:18.980 --> 00:12:19.379
 you're not

00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:19.939
 going to be here.

00:12:20.199 --> 00:12:20.980
 I'd like my

00:12:20.980 --> 00:12:21.740
 half of it

00:12:21.740 --> 00:12:22.279
 now.

00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:24.279
 His father

00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:27.199
 sells half

00:12:27.199 --> 00:12:27.919
 of what he has

00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:28.679
 and he gives it

00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:29.360
 to his son.

00:12:29.599 --> 00:12:30.240
 And he goes off

00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:30.799
 and he blows it

00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:31.620
 on reckless living.

00:12:32.579 --> 00:12:33.019
 Eventually,

00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:33.759
 that son

00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:35.120
 has spent

00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:35.620
 everything

00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:37.019
 and he's in

00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:37.620
 a place of

00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:38.419
 desperation.

00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:39.199
 He has nothing

00:12:39.199 --> 00:12:39.519
 left.

00:12:39.599 --> 00:12:39.980
 His friends

00:12:39.980 --> 00:12:40.779
 have deserted him.

00:12:41.579 --> 00:12:42.199
 And a turning

00:12:42.199 --> 00:12:42.799
 point comes

00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:43.539
 where he decides

00:12:43.539 --> 00:12:43.919
 he's going to

00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:44.659
 go back to

00:12:44.659 --> 00:12:45.279
 his father

00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:46.299
 and he's

00:12:46.299 --> 00:12:46.539
 going to

00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:47.100
 plead for

00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:47.519
 forgiveness

00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:48.579
 and he's

00:12:48.579 --> 00:12:48.819
 going to

00:12:48.819 --> 00:12:49.259
 ask him

00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:49.500
 to be

00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:50.379
 accepted back

00:12:50.379 --> 00:12:51.019
 not as a

00:12:51.019 --> 00:12:51.699
 son but at

00:12:51.699 --> 00:12:52.159
 least taken

00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:52.600
 on as a

00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:53.240
 paid worker.

00:12:53.959 --> 00:12:54.459
 So he

00:12:54.459 --> 00:12:55.220
 rehearses his

00:12:55.220 --> 00:12:55.519
 speech.

00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:56.079
 He goes back

00:12:56.079 --> 00:12:56.419
 to his

00:12:56.419 --> 00:12:56.839
 father.

00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:58.259
 He goes back

00:12:58.259 --> 00:12:58.539
 to his

00:12:58.539 --> 00:12:59.360
 father and

00:12:59.360 --> 00:12:59.959
 the story

00:12:59.959 --> 00:13:00.500
 is told that

00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:00.980
 while he was

00:13:00.980 --> 00:13:01.559
 still a long

00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:02.120
 way off from

00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:02.360
 home,

00:13:02.459 --> 00:13:02.959
 the father

00:13:02.959 --> 00:13:03.339
 who's been

00:13:03.339 --> 00:13:03.879
 looking out

00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:04.339
 for him

00:13:04.339 --> 00:13:05.059
 sees him

00:13:05.059 --> 00:13:05.779
 returning across

00:13:05.779 --> 00:13:06.259
 the fields.

00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:07.000
 He runs

00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:07.919
 out to him,

00:13:08.199 --> 00:13:08.860
 he throws his

00:13:08.860 --> 00:13:09.439
 arms around

00:13:09.439 --> 00:13:10.620
 him and he

00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:11.500
 gives instructions

00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:13.200
 for a party

00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:14.299
 to be thrown

00:13:14.299 --> 00:13:16.299
 because this

00:13:16.299 --> 00:13:16.919
 son who was

00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:17.899
 lost has

00:13:17.899 --> 00:13:18.379
 come back

00:13:18.379 --> 00:13:18.700
 home.

00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:19.500
 He is found,

00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:20.120
 he is saved,

00:13:20.179 --> 00:13:20.720
 he is rescued.

00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:22.440
 It's a

00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:23.240
 brilliant story

00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:23.919
 which talks

00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:24.600
 of how the

00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:25.399
 loving father

00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:26.659
 welcomes every

00:13:26.659 --> 00:13:27.299
 single one of

00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:28.120
 us back home.

00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:31.120
 But the story

00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:31.779
 doesn't end

00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:32.340
 there, does it?

00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:32.879
 There's more

00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:34.200
 to it and I

00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:34.700
 think it's there

00:13:34.700 --> 00:13:35.360
 for a reason

00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.679
 because one of

00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.039
 the things about

00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:38.659
 that story that

00:13:38.659 --> 00:13:39.779
 I love so much

00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:41.579
 is the elder

00:13:41.579 --> 00:13:42.019
 brother.

00:13:43.339 --> 00:13:43.980
 The older

00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.059
 brother who's

00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:46.919
 been home all

00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:47.679
 this time

00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:49.819
 faithfully

00:13:49.819 --> 00:13:51.279
 working with

00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:51.679
 his dad.

00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:53.480
 Now don't

00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:54.259
 misunderstand it,

00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:54.959
 if you ever

00:13:54.959 --> 00:13:56.019
 tend to think

00:13:56.019 --> 00:13:56.500
 well I'm that

00:13:56.500 --> 00:13:57.079
 older brother,

00:13:57.419 --> 00:13:58.220
 well there's a

00:13:58.220 --> 00:13:58.720
 bit of both

00:13:58.720 --> 00:13:59.360
 brothers in all

00:13:59.360 --> 00:13:59.980
 of us because

00:13:59.980 --> 00:14:00.659
 the gospel is

00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:01.159
 for all of us.

00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:01.839
 We all need

00:14:01.839 --> 00:14:02.500
 to come home

00:14:02.500 --> 00:14:03.620
 to the father

00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:04.139
 because we all

00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:04.720
 go wrong at

00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:05.279
 some point.

00:14:05.959 --> 00:14:06.779
 But there's a

00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:07.319
 lot of that

00:14:07.319 --> 00:14:08.399
 older brother in

00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:09.059
 all of us I

00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:09.379
 think.

00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:10.839
 Where we can

00:14:10.839 --> 00:14:11.539
 relate to that

00:14:11.539 --> 00:14:12.039
 experience.

00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:13.199
 Well hang on a

00:14:13.199 --> 00:14:13.939
 second because

00:14:13.939 --> 00:14:14.639
 the story goes

00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.059
 that the older

00:14:16.059 --> 00:14:16.879
 brother goes up

00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:17.620
 to his dad and

00:14:17.620 --> 00:14:18.879
 he says look I've

00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:19.720
 been faithful to

00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:21.019
 you for years and

00:14:21.019 --> 00:14:21.839
 yet you've never

00:14:21.839 --> 00:14:23.000
 thrown a feast in

00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:23.939
 my honour yet this

00:14:23.939 --> 00:14:24.779
 son of yours,

00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:25.519
 this other son

00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:27.199
 who's taken it

00:14:27.199 --> 00:14:28.600
 all and squandered

00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:29.759
 it all comes back

00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:30.519
 and you throw a

00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:31.379
 great big party.

00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:32.980
 What's going on

00:14:32.980 --> 00:14:33.139
 dad?

00:14:33.179 --> 00:14:33.899
 It's not fair.

00:14:35.319 --> 00:14:36.000
 I can relate to

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:36.459
 that can't you?

00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:38.039
 He's speaking a lot

00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:38.419
 of sense.

00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:39.019
 He's angry.

00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:41.759
 Now I might be

00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:42.579
 reading too much

00:14:42.579 --> 00:14:43.100
 in, I don't

00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:43.519
 know, I'm going

00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:44.059
 to take the

00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:44.439
 risk.

00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:47.120
 But I love it

00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:48.819
 when the father

00:14:48.819 --> 00:14:49.500
 goes up to the

00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:51.459
 son, puts his

00:14:51.459 --> 00:14:52.059
 arm around him

00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:52.500
 and he says

00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:54.439
 son, he doesn't

00:14:54.439 --> 00:14:58.100
 say half of what

00:14:58.100 --> 00:14:58.879
 I have here will

00:14:58.879 --> 00:14:59.620
 one day be yours.

00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:02.819
 He says son,

00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:05.500
 everything I have

00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:07.660
 is yours.

00:15:08.780 --> 00:15:09.780
 Think about that.

00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:12.000
 Everything that's

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.680
 left is still

00:15:14.680 --> 00:15:15.080
 his.

00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:17.140
 He's not going to

00:15:17.140 --> 00:15:17.860
 do that thing where

00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:19.140
 he breaks up what

00:15:19.140 --> 00:15:20.400
 is left and carves

00:15:20.400 --> 00:15:21.900
 off half again to

00:15:21.900 --> 00:15:22.860
 his brother.

00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:26.120
 No, nothing has

00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.560
 changed as far as

00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:29.660
 the objectivity of

00:15:29.659 --> 00:15:30.620
 the situation is

00:15:30.620 --> 00:15:31.159
 concerned.

00:15:32.419 --> 00:15:33.299
 The other son has

00:15:33.299 --> 00:15:34.059
 not lost his

00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:34.500
 inheritance.

00:15:36.500 --> 00:15:38.139
 Now, as I say, I

00:15:38.139 --> 00:15:39.039
 might be reading in

00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:39.740
 more than is there,

00:15:39.839 --> 00:15:41.439
 but why is that bit

00:15:41.439 --> 00:15:42.399
 of the story there

00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:43.779
 at all if it's not

00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:44.480
 to say something

00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:45.360
 important to us?

00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:46.620
 And I think that

00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.219
 what important message

00:15:48.219 --> 00:15:49.740
 is in that is that

00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:52.699
 the message of God's

00:15:52.699 --> 00:15:53.959
 forgiveness and grace

00:15:53.959 --> 00:15:55.559
 does not undermine

00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:57.079
 or undercut the

00:15:57.079 --> 00:15:58.559
 objectivity of wrong

00:15:58.559 --> 00:15:59.359
 that has been done.

00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:03.019
 So if we're ever

00:16:03.019 --> 00:16:04.619
 tempted to feel that

00:16:04.619 --> 00:16:05.439
 there's something

00:16:05.439 --> 00:16:07.319
 inwardly wrong about

00:16:07.319 --> 00:16:08.359
 forgiving somebody

00:16:08.359 --> 00:16:09.719
 because to do so

00:16:09.719 --> 00:16:10.759
 would be to sort of

00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:11.839
 upset the moral

00:16:11.839 --> 00:16:13.579
 equilibrium of the

00:16:13.579 --> 00:16:14.539
 universe, that

00:16:14.539 --> 00:16:15.439
 there's actually

00:16:15.439 --> 00:16:16.500
 something inherently

00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:18.699
 intrinsically bad

00:16:18.699 --> 00:16:19.379
 about giving

00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:20.519
 forgiveness because it

00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.099
 undercuts the

00:16:22.099 --> 00:16:23.000
 gravity of what's

00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:23.559
 being done.

00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:25.739
 Well, we don't

00:16:25.739 --> 00:16:26.239
 find that in

00:16:26.239 --> 00:16:26.559
 scripture.

00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.979
 scripture doesn't,

00:16:29.119 --> 00:16:29.899
 when it talks about

00:16:29.899 --> 00:16:30.799
 forgiveness and grace

00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:31.759
 and mercy, does not

00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.239
 deny the reality of

00:16:33.239 --> 00:16:33.959
 what has been done

00:16:33.959 --> 00:16:34.319
 wrong.

00:16:35.359 --> 00:16:36.419
 It gives us a fresh

00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:36.779
 start.

00:16:38.339 --> 00:16:39.519
 Now, the issue of

00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:40.639
 where the offender,

00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.799
 the person that has

00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:44.959
 upset you, the issue

00:16:44.959 --> 00:16:46.219
 of where they are at

00:16:46.219 --> 00:16:48.679
 with God and where

00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:49.779
 they stand with God,

00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.119
 well, that's between

00:16:51.119 --> 00:16:51.759
 them and God.

00:16:52.859 --> 00:16:53.439
 It's none of your

00:16:53.439 --> 00:16:54.199
 business, it's none of

00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:56.320
 my business, it's

00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:57.020
 their business.

00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:00.220
 But what is your

00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:02.879
 business is the grip

00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.580
 that unforgiveness can

00:17:04.580 --> 00:17:05.319
 have on you.

00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:08.360
 You see, when we

00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:12.080
 refuse to let go of

00:17:12.080 --> 00:17:14.180
 something, when we

00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:17.940
 hold on to it, it eats

00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:20.360
 away at us inwardly.

00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:23.479
 And resentment and

00:17:23.479 --> 00:17:24.679
 pain and bitterness

00:17:24.679 --> 00:17:27.199
 leads to our own

00:17:27.199 --> 00:17:28.019
 self-destruction.

00:17:29.679 --> 00:17:30.859
 There is a Chinese

00:17:30.859 --> 00:17:32.139
 proverb that says,

00:17:32.299 --> 00:17:33.199
 he who plots

00:17:33.199 --> 00:17:35.939
 revenge on another

00:17:35.939 --> 00:17:38.539
 person should dig

00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:39.519
 two grapes.

00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:42.479
 You see, if we

00:17:42.479 --> 00:17:44.039
 refuse to let go,

00:17:45.219 --> 00:17:46.839
 if we refuse to even

00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:48.479
 attempt to let go,

00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.319
 if we hold that

00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:51.220
 sense of resentment

00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:52.559
 to us, it won't

00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:53.420
 just stay the same

00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:53.920
 size.

00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:56.180
 It will linger.

00:17:57.099 --> 00:17:58.059
 And as it lingers,

00:17:58.160 --> 00:17:58.839
 it will grow.

00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:01.160
 And I can guarantee

00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:02.819
 you this, the one

00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:03.640
 person that will

00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:04.819
 suffer more than

00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:06.539
 anybody else through

00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:07.759
 refusing to forgive

00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:09.360
 will be the person

00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:10.299
 that refuses to

00:18:10.299 --> 00:18:10.500
 forgive.

00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:13.220
 It hurts, it

00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:14.380
 lingers, it

00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:15.559
 grows, it

00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:16.599
 hurts, it

00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:17.559
 lingers, it

00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:18.400
 grows some more.

00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.220
 It hurts, it

00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:21.160
 lingers, it

00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:22.220
 grows even more.

00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:24.740
 And so with it, all

00:18:24.740 --> 00:18:25.599
 of the pain and the

00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.559
 self-destruction that

00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:27.200
 goes with it.

00:18:28.779 --> 00:18:29.279
 You see, this

00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:30.339
 call, this

00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:32.059
 challenge to

00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:33.180
 forgive is

00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:33.980
 actually for our

00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:34.539
 own benefit.

00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:37.539
 God knows the

00:18:37.539 --> 00:18:38.480
 damage that we do

00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:39.420
 ourselves when we

00:18:39.420 --> 00:18:40.759
 refuse to even try

00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:42.360
 to let go of the

00:18:42.360 --> 00:18:43.259
 hurt that others

00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:44.599
 have done to us.

00:18:46.059 --> 00:18:46.500
 Christian

00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:46.960
 Corrie

00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:47.400
 ten

00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.200
 room painted a

00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:49.660
 very, very

00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:50.660
 helpful picture,

00:18:50.859 --> 00:18:52.240
 I think, of

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:53.119
 what this is

00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:53.519
 about.

00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:54.920
 Because

00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:55.500
 forgiveness,

00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:57.200
 forgiveness can

00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:58.019
 be a process.

00:18:58.299 --> 00:18:59.319
 Sometimes God

00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:00.539
 can just step

00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:01.880
 in and change

00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:02.420
 things around

00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:03.599
 inside us to

00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:04.539
 the extent that

00:19:04.539 --> 00:19:05.220
 we're able

00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:06.200
 somehow to

00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:07.539
 just immediately

00:19:07.539 --> 00:19:08.299
 let go of

00:19:08.299 --> 00:19:08.660
 something.

00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:10.619
 But more

00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:11.220
 often than not,

00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:11.839
 I would suggest

00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:12.660
 that perhaps it's

00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:13.099
 more of a

00:19:13.099 --> 00:19:13.660
 process.

00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:15.519
 forgiveness may

00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.580
 be that the

00:19:16.580 --> 00:19:17.120
 pain hasn't

00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:17.800
 kind of gone

00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:18.580
 straight away,

00:19:19.540 --> 00:19:20.519
 but it's

00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:21.420
 rather about

00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:23.060
 agreeing to

00:19:23.060 --> 00:19:25.240
 resolve to

00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:26.259
 that process

00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:29.860
 whereby we

00:19:29.860 --> 00:19:31.580
 commit ourselves

00:19:31.580 --> 00:19:31.960
 and say,

00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:34.640
 okay, I'm

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:35.200
 going to try

00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:35.680
 to forget

00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:36.180
 this person.

00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:36.779
 I'm going to

00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.000
 try to

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.519
 forgive this

00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:39.960
 person.

00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:41.299
 I'm going

00:19:41.299 --> 00:19:41.779
 to embark

00:19:41.779 --> 00:19:42.200
 on that

00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:42.460
 journey,

00:19:42.539 --> 00:19:42.759
 on that

00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:43.360
 process of

00:19:43.360 --> 00:19:43.860
 letting go.

00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:45.500
 Back to

00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:45.980
 this picture

00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:46.819
 of Corrie

00:19:46.819 --> 00:19:47.319
 Ten Boones.

00:19:48.460 --> 00:19:49.000
 She said,

00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:49.400
 I want you

00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:50.019
 to imagine

00:19:50.019 --> 00:19:51.140
 that you

00:19:51.140 --> 00:19:51.920
 walk into

00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:53.720
 an old

00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:55.539
 church and

00:19:55.539 --> 00:19:56.420
 there's hardly

00:19:56.420 --> 00:19:57.019
 anybody in

00:19:57.019 --> 00:19:57.440
 there, but

00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:58.600
 you hear a

00:19:58.600 --> 00:19:59.279
 bell being

00:19:59.279 --> 00:19:59.700
 rung and

00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:00.259
 as you walk

00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:01.000
 in, you

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:01.559
 see in the

00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:02.000
 porchway,

00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:02.340
 there's a

00:20:02.340 --> 00:20:02.900
 rope hanging

00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:03.319
 down from

00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:03.640
 the bell

00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:04.160
 tower and

00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:04.440
 there's a

00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:04.940
 man there

00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:05.680
 who's pulling

00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.160
 on this

00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.500
 bell, making

00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:08.039
 it clang.

00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:10.980
 You walk

00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:11.380
 into the

00:20:11.380 --> 00:20:11.960
 church and

00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:12.220
 there's

00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:12.860
 actually nobody

00:20:12.860 --> 00:20:13.319
 else in

00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:13.640
 there at

00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:13.860
 all.

00:20:14.779 --> 00:20:15.500
 You make

00:20:15.500 --> 00:20:15.900
 your way to

00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:16.559
 the front and

00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:17.539
 you sit down

00:20:17.539 --> 00:20:18.920
 and all you

00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:19.460
 can hear is

00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:20.220
 the sound of

00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:20.759
 the bell

00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:22.120
 clanging away.

00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:24.340
 After a few

00:20:24.340 --> 00:20:25.220
 moments you

00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:25.799
 hear footsteps

00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:26.860
 coming up the

00:20:26.860 --> 00:20:29.600
 aisle and

00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:30.440
 they're footsteps

00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:31.400
 of somebody

00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:32.860
 who then

00:20:32.860 --> 00:20:33.519
 turns and

00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:34.559
 walks in

00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:35.000
 front of you

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:35.380
 and sits

00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:35.880
 down beside

00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:36.140
 you.

00:20:36.220 --> 00:20:36.700
 You turn,

00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:37.160
 you face

00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:37.559
 them and

00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:38.240
 you see that

00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:38.620
 it's the

00:20:38.620 --> 00:20:39.380
 person that

00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:39.840
 was ringing

00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.419
 the bell.

00:20:41.859 --> 00:20:42.319
 Yet the

00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:42.939
 bell is

00:20:42.939 --> 00:20:43.539
 still ringing.

00:20:43.659 --> 00:20:43.859
 You can

00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:44.379
 still hear

00:20:44.379 --> 00:20:44.659
 it.

00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:46.759
 And you

00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:47.019
 think to

00:20:47.019 --> 00:20:47.220
 yourself,

00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:47.759
 how on

00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.279
 earth can

00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:50.000
 that bell

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:50.879
 still be

00:20:50.879 --> 00:20:51.240
 ringing?

00:20:52.339 --> 00:20:53.099
 Because the

00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:53.799
 bell ringer

00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:55.679
 is right

00:20:55.679 --> 00:20:56.019
 here.

00:20:57.220 --> 00:20:57.759
 And so you

00:20:57.759 --> 00:20:58.259
 turn around

00:20:58.259 --> 00:20:58.799
 and you see

00:20:58.799 --> 00:20:59.199
 what has

00:20:59.199 --> 00:20:59.579
 happened.

00:21:00.459 --> 00:21:01.199
 The bell

00:21:01.199 --> 00:21:01.659
 ringer has

00:21:01.659 --> 00:21:02.159
 let go of

00:21:02.159 --> 00:21:02.740
 that rope.

00:21:04.539 --> 00:21:05.099
 The bell

00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:05.799
 hasn't stopped

00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:06.299
 because it's

00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:06.980
 still swinging.

00:21:06.980 --> 00:21:07.039
 ringing.

00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:10.819
 You sit

00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:11.140
 and you

00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:11.559
 wait for

00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:11.980
 a very,

00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:12.500
 very,

00:21:12.620 --> 00:21:13.480
 very long

00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:13.900
 time.

00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:15.900
 And as

00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:16.500
 you wait,

00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:18.640
 so the

00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:19.059
 swinging

00:21:19.059 --> 00:21:20.079
 slows down.

00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:21.180
 The momentum

00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:21.900
 is lost.

00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:24.620
 The sound

00:21:24.620 --> 00:21:25.819
 quietens

00:21:25.819 --> 00:21:26.240
 out.

00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:28.779
 The sounds

00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:29.099
 of the

00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:30.019
 bell become

00:21:30.019 --> 00:21:30.940
 less frequent

00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:33.660
 until eventually

00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:34.620
 it fades

00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:36.079
 completely.

00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:40.139
 To the

00:21:40.139 --> 00:21:40.759
 extent that

00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:41.459
 it's hard

00:21:41.459 --> 00:21:42.119
 to actually

00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:42.959
 pinpoint the

00:21:42.959 --> 00:21:43.779
 exact moment

00:21:43.779 --> 00:21:44.579
 in time

00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:46.759
 where the

00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:48.279
 bell stopped

00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:48.939
 making a

00:21:48.939 --> 00:21:49.259
 sound.

00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:52.799
 Forgiveness,

00:21:52.979 --> 00:21:53.500
 says Corey

00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:54.000
 Ten Boom,

00:21:54.179 --> 00:21:54.959
 works rather

00:21:54.959 --> 00:21:55.619
 like that.

00:21:58.199 --> 00:21:59.519
 That it

00:21:59.519 --> 00:21:59.939
 can be a

00:21:59.939 --> 00:22:00.539
 process,

00:22:01.539 --> 00:22:03.039
 but in

00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:03.519
 order for that

00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:04.159
 process to

00:22:04.159 --> 00:22:04.539
 start,

00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:05.000
 you've got to

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:05.679
 let go of

00:22:05.679 --> 00:22:06.099
 the rope.

00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:08.399
 And it

00:22:08.399 --> 00:22:08.799
 won't be

00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:09.299
 immediately

00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:10.079
 obvious,

00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:10.759
 perhaps,

00:22:10.959 --> 00:22:11.619
 at first,

00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:14.099
 but in

00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:14.539
 time it

00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:14.799
 will.

00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:16.679
 And with

00:22:16.679 --> 00:22:17.199
 God's help

00:22:17.199 --> 00:22:17.459
 and with

00:22:17.459 --> 00:22:17.779
 God's

00:22:17.779 --> 00:22:18.139
 strength,

00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:19.519
 over the

00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:19.899
 course of

00:22:19.899 --> 00:22:20.319
 time,

00:22:21.679 --> 00:22:22.479
 that pain,

00:22:22.739 --> 00:22:24.259
 that bitterness,

00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:25.500
 that resentment,

00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:27.839
 gradually fades

00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:28.659
 to the extent

00:22:28.659 --> 00:22:29.500
 that perhaps we

00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:30.079
 may not be

00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:30.619
 able to tell

00:22:30.619 --> 00:22:32.259
 exactly what

00:22:32.259 --> 00:22:33.079
 point in time

00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:33.679
 it stops

00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:34.259
 completely,

00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:35.660
 but eventually

00:22:35.660 --> 00:22:36.100
 it will.

00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:37.240
 But in

00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:37.660
 order for it

00:22:37.660 --> 00:22:38.140
 to happen,

00:22:39.140 --> 00:22:39.820
 we've just

00:22:39.820 --> 00:22:40.160
 got to do

00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:40.460
 the one

00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:40.840
 thing,

00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:43.000
 let go.

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:54.220
 through a

00:22:54.220 --> 00:22:55.319
 hand,

00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:56.220
 he

00:22:56.220 --> 00:22:56.680
 can

00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:57.319
 get

00:22:57.380 --> 00:22:57.519
 what