WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.139 me, they're improving me, they're coming because they want to care for other people. 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.960 And that's very exciting. Just to let you know, I've got a number of 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:13.880 liquids up here, so I have my water, so I'll be hitting all these throughout. 00:00:14.500 --> 00:00:20.140 I have my cup of coffee, and then this is blood because I'm a vampire. 00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:23.940 And I have to have it or else I start looking for people. 00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:32.760 So that's a fruit smoothie that I requested. 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:36.539 And Jen graciously brought it to me. 00:00:37.400 --> 00:00:50.020 So what I hope tonight is if we do this right, there won't be anything we talk about that 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:55.000 you could not yourself turn around and act on and practice tomorrow. 00:00:55.880 --> 00:01:03.140 So this is not a let me dive into the deep end of complex things and try to talk you through 00:01:03.140 --> 00:01:06.120 people with multiple personality disorders, something like that. 00:01:06.320 --> 00:01:10.000 Although if you're dealing with that, please feel free to ask a question and we'll dialogue. 00:01:11.859 --> 00:01:15.879 I want this to be as participatory as you would like it to be. 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:20.199 So if you have a question, let's do it like this. 00:01:20.379 --> 00:01:22.019 We'll take some time at the end of each session. 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:22.859 We'll do two sessions. 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.119 And dialogue, questions, anything. 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:31.519 And that can include if you're working, if you're trying to help somebody and you're just 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:36.280 wondering how do I apply this to that, feel free to ask that question. 00:01:36.620 --> 00:01:42.659 Now, my general rule of thumb is a lot of times you're asking these questions about people 00:01:42.659 --> 00:01:46.759 who are either in the room or that other people might know. 00:01:46.759 --> 00:01:53.319 So I generally say, if you have a question about somebody you're actually ministering to, 00:01:54.340 --> 00:01:57.039 if they're female, call them Betty. 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.819 And if they're male, call them Chuck. 00:02:01.459 --> 00:02:03.679 So you say, my friend Betty. 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:05.780 My roommate Betty. 00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:09.139 My husband Chuck. 00:02:09.460 --> 00:02:09.639 Whatever. 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:14.659 But, and let's try not to expose people. 00:02:15.779 --> 00:02:18.939 So if you need to change details so that people don't get exposed. 00:02:19.459 --> 00:02:21.339 But I do want it to be as practical as possible. 00:02:22.359 --> 00:02:24.459 And this may be, you know, beyond the church. 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:26.239 It may be, you may be family members. 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:28.239 It may be somebody you're interacting with at work. 00:02:29.299 --> 00:02:30.759 Other contacts at school. 00:02:30.959 --> 00:02:36.819 So, so it will be helpful for you and meaningful for me if we get some dialogue here too. 00:02:36.899 --> 00:02:37.759 So I'm not going to push it. 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:42.620 But what I would say is that if we have, if you have specific questions about something 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:49.679 I say that's confusing, very possible, and it would be helpful to get that cleared up 00:02:49.679 --> 00:02:53.899 at that time, just raise your hand and I'll stop and we'll deal with that. 00:02:54.099 --> 00:02:57.939 So, so that, because chances are other people are confused about it as well. 00:02:57.939 --> 00:03:02.740 Otherwise, if you just sort of have something, oh, I want to ask about this, we'll just, you know, 00:03:02.740 --> 00:03:06.960 just jot it down or remember it and then we'll just deal with it at the end of each session 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:09.400 so we don't kind of get off track. 00:03:09.859 --> 00:03:20.020 So, this material in various ways is called from stuff I teach to our pastors at our Sovereign Grace Pastors College. 00:03:20.020 --> 00:03:32.960 As I talk about there, even using the word counseling for what I do is problematic. 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:44.300 I heard Paul Tripp say one time that the idea that we counsel people out of problems is not found anywhere in the Bible. 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:51.379 Which is kind of awkward because that's why I have a job. 00:03:51.379 --> 00:03:59.859 One way I try to validate my ministry is to say I'm doing biblical counseling. 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:08.639 But even calling it biblical counseling has its challenges because what I can do, if I'm not careful, 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:15.919 is talk people out of problems using the Bible. 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:27.639 And that delivers me back to the same issue, the idea that I think people change because we can talk people out of their problems. 00:04:30.699 --> 00:04:32.379 But we do that, don't we? 00:04:33.379 --> 00:04:41.800 We talk to people as if our words should make a difference. 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:50.600 As if what we have to say should be life-changing or at least make a difference in what they do. 00:04:50.939 --> 00:04:58.780 A good question to reflect on is how many times in this past month have you been in a situation 00:04:58.780 --> 00:05:03.780 where you were trying to talk somebody out of their problem? 00:05:04.840 --> 00:05:08.840 You don't have to raise your hand or count, but just think about different contexts you've been in. 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:19.459 Perhaps, oh maybe, somebody was trying to help you by talking you out of your problem. 00:05:22.239 --> 00:05:24.779 Think about it, your friend maybe, a spouse. 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:31.620 If you have kids, how many times have you tried to talk your kids out of a problem? 00:05:34.159 --> 00:05:37.219 Someone you're trying to help in the church, someone you're trying to help at work. 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:44.200 We revert to counseling because we trust our words to do the work. 00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:51.480 We trust our insights, our information, our persuasiveness, our earnestness. 00:05:51.720 --> 00:06:00.580 Just think about this past year and the conversations you may have had over social distancing or masks 00:06:00.579 --> 00:06:06.779 or race issues or politics. 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:13.740 How many times have you or somebody tried to talk you into their way of thinking 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:20.439 by throwing information at you that they think should revolutionize your mind? 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:26.540 How many times have you been tempted to respond with your own body of information 00:06:26.540 --> 00:06:33.819 and you end up with two people trying to figure out whose information is more compelling? 00:06:35.620 --> 00:06:42.899 That's the challenge we have when we think that the answer to helping people is with our words. 00:06:42.899 --> 00:06:48.759 When we do that, do people change? 00:06:51.179 --> 00:06:58.159 Even if people respond to our words, do they go home as changed people? 00:06:59.699 --> 00:07:01.219 Those are the issues we have to face. 00:07:01.359 --> 00:07:04.579 If we're going to talk about this idea and you're in a seminar, 00:07:04.779 --> 00:07:06.579 I may just be talking you into leaving. 00:07:06.719 --> 00:07:08.539 Well, he doesn't believe in it. 00:07:08.540 --> 00:07:10.220 And that's not the goal. 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.740 But the issue I want to deal with is I want to get us away from the idea 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:17.740 that the focus has to be on how well we talk 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:21.560 or what information we have to share. 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:28.680 Perhaps you've experienced what has been called unsought counsel. 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:37.100 Like this past week, I was turning from the left-hand lane 00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:41.240 toward the right-hand lane and didn't notice a car in my blind spot. 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:47.840 And that car, somewhat ungraciously, through their horn, 00:07:48.820 --> 00:07:51.420 counseled me that I was doing wrong. 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:53.740 It was unsought. 00:07:53.860 --> 00:07:55.120 I wasn't asking for it. 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:58.820 But we experience unsought counseling for people. 00:07:58.960 --> 00:08:00.260 People unload on us. 00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:03.140 People just turn on us. 00:08:03.140 --> 00:08:06.980 People will say things to us that we find is unhelpful. 00:08:07.580 --> 00:08:09.540 And so we still are faced with when we do that, 00:08:09.700 --> 00:08:12.460 when people give us unsought counseling, what are they doing? 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.800 They're still trying to change our behavior. 00:08:14.939 --> 00:08:18.040 They're trying to make us conform to what they think we should do. 00:08:19.080 --> 00:08:23.480 And that's the danger of over-trusting counseling as a technique. 00:08:24.820 --> 00:08:27.340 So the first thing we're going to do is a thought exercise tonight. 00:08:27.339 --> 00:08:41.779 You may have noticed over the past ten years or so that there is a... 00:08:41.779 --> 00:08:50.399 It could be described as a pandemic of superheroes in our culture. 00:08:51.299 --> 00:08:55.419 Think of all the movies, all the shows, all the... 00:08:55.419 --> 00:08:57.259 Where superheroes... 00:08:57.259 --> 00:08:58.720 It's an infestation. 00:08:58.819 --> 00:09:03.379 We have an infestation of superheroes in our culture right now. 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:10.379 People love superheroes because what you have is somebody who in some ways can seem ordinary, 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:15.779 but they bring something extraordinary to the table that makes a difference. 00:09:16.779 --> 00:09:19.000 So the thought exercise is this. 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:27.899 What if you wanted to be a super counselor? 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:30.539 What would it take? 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.580 What kind of superpowers would you need to be a super counselor? 00:09:35.740 --> 00:09:37.480 So here are some suggestions. 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:40.519 If I'm thinking about being a super counselor, 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.500 what are the things that might be helpful for me? 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:46.539 One is, if I'm a Christian, 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.340 it would be great to have a direct line of communication with God 00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:57.539 where I could access all the knowledge and wisdom 00:09:57.539 --> 00:10:01.320 that could be needed in any counseling situation. 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:04.519 In other words, if I interacted with you, 00:10:04.899 --> 00:10:09.220 I would know everything I could possibly need to know about you 00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:12.000 and about your problem and your circumstances. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.940 That would be a counseling superpower. 00:10:15.299 --> 00:10:16.179 Another one might be, 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.379 if I could actually see into your soul 00:10:20.379 --> 00:10:26.460 and be able to sort out all the things you're feeling and thinking. 00:10:27.019 --> 00:10:31.799 I could organize the mess in your life. 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:35.279 That would be a superpower. 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:40.139 What if I was a counselor who had an encyclopedic knowledge 00:10:40.139 --> 00:10:43.960 of everything that has ever happened to you 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:48.899 and how that interplays with your brain chemistry 00:10:48.899 --> 00:10:52.120 and your unconscious thoughts and your decisions? 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:57.199 And I could make sense of you over your entire life. 00:10:57.319 --> 00:10:58.980 That would be a superpower. 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.240 What about if I had the gift of prayer 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:05.200 that I could pray for you? 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.140 I could pray for your cancer. 00:11:07.140 --> 00:11:09.259 I could pray for your depression. 00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:11.460 I could pray for your fears. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.640 And it would instantly be dealt with. 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:16.840 That would be a superpower. 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:24.340 What would happen if I could be everywhere all the time, 00:11:24.560 --> 00:11:26.460 instantaneously available to you, 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:32.160 24-7, ready to talk, pray, whatever it took, 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:36.319 you never had to deal with me not being available? 00:11:37.259 --> 00:11:38.319 That would be a superpower. 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:40.240 What if I had all that? 00:11:41.219 --> 00:11:44.079 Would I be a super counselor? 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:52.059 I might be, or I might be nothing. 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:59.379 That's the point that Paul is driving at in 1 Corinthians 13 00:11:59.379 --> 00:12:03.720 when he begins this way. 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:07.320 If I speak in the tongue of men and angels 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.320 but have not love, 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:13.580 I'm a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 00:12:14.500 --> 00:12:17.000 And if I have prophetic powers 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:19.620 and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:23.500 and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains 00:12:23.500 --> 00:12:25.360 but have not love, 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:27.100 I am nothing. 00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:30.460 If I give away all I have, 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.000 if I deliver up my body to be burned 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.279 but have not love, 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:36.159 I gain nothing. 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:39.680 Love is patient, 00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:41.240 kind. 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:44.139 It does not envy or boast. 00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:47.820 It is not arrogant or rude. 00:12:48.820 --> 00:12:51.980 It does not insist on its own way. 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:55.540 It is not irritable or resentful. 00:12:55.539 --> 00:12:59.000 It does not rejoice at wrongdoing 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:01.079 but rejoices with the truth. 00:13:02.179 --> 00:13:04.079 Love bears all things, 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:05.740 believes all things, 00:13:06.599 --> 00:13:07.860 hopes all things, 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:10.179 endures all things. 00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:13.360 Love never ends. 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:17.080 So just a few conceptual quotes about this passage 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:19.100 which we'll spend our time in this session dealing with. 00:13:20.899 --> 00:13:23.180 1 Corinthians is a letter known 00:13:23.180 --> 00:13:25.800 for Paul addressing people 00:13:25.800 --> 00:13:28.600 who had an inordinate love 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.379 and pride in spiritual gifts 00:13:31.379 --> 00:13:34.360 and were using them in a fleshly way. 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:36.100 And if you will, 00:13:36.220 --> 00:13:37.139 if you read that letter, 00:13:37.220 --> 00:13:37.820 you recognize 00:13:37.820 --> 00:13:39.600 the first thing Paul does 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.340 is commend giftedness 00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:43.279 and then he addresses 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:45.759 the improper use of gifts. 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.700 And so this is a context 00:13:48.700 --> 00:13:50.220 where people were enamored 00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:52.500 with superpowers 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:57.679 in the way they lived their lives. 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.259 In chapter 12 preceding this, 00:14:01.319 --> 00:14:02.319 you know that Paul, 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:04.139 after he has addressed 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:08.299 their fleshly focus on gifts, 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:09.899 he begins to, 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:11.340 he talks about the gifts 00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:12.919 and he sets them in proper order. 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:14.199 These are necessary. 00:14:14.439 --> 00:14:16.279 This is necessary for us to be the body. 00:14:16.659 --> 00:14:17.459 We need the gifts. 00:14:17.819 --> 00:14:18.679 Left you think 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:20.899 you can be a giftless church. 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:21.599 Left you think 00:14:21.599 --> 00:14:24.120 you can be cessationist 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.719 in the way you understand gifts. 00:14:26.099 --> 00:14:28.519 This is necessary for the church. 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:31.279 But then in 1 Corinthians 13, 00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:32.659 he transitions, 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:34.120 I'll show you a better way. 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:36.799 And so then he does something remarkable. 00:14:37.539 --> 00:14:39.099 He takes those gifts 00:14:39.099 --> 00:14:40.579 and he expresses them 00:14:40.579 --> 00:14:42.240 in their extreme form. 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.279 If you had all this to the end, 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:48.519 but have not love, 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:50.639 it means nothing. 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:52.720 Hyper gifts, 00:14:53.419 --> 00:14:54.960 apart from love, 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:55.600 mean nothing. 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:57.560 And the interesting thing, 00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:58.519 if you notice here, 00:14:58.879 --> 00:14:59.940 is there's a contrast 00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:01.840 between verses 1 and 3 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:02.840 and verses 4 through 8, 00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:04.860 which is Paul is talking 00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:06.100 verses 1 through 3 00:15:06.100 --> 00:15:07.519 about things that nobody 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:08.759 will ever have 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.139 and say this means nothing. 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:13.360 And then he says, 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:15.139 he gives you a list of things 00:15:15.139 --> 00:15:17.120 that everybody can do 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:19.600 and says this means everything. 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.200 There's nothing in 4 through 8 there 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.240 that you and I can't do 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:26.740 as believers. 00:15:27.139 --> 00:15:29.819 It takes no extraordinary skill 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:30.780 or maturity 00:15:30.780 --> 00:15:32.100 to be patient 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:34.020 or kind. 00:15:34.980 --> 00:15:35.980 Isn't that a beautiful thing? 00:15:36.500 --> 00:15:38.260 To be truly effective, 00:15:38.680 --> 00:15:40.879 we don't need to be extraordinary. 00:15:42.540 --> 00:15:45.020 We can be ordinary people. 00:15:45.019 --> 00:15:47.000 So there's a question 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:47.679 we need to answer 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:48.379 and that's this. 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:50.840 Why does Paul say 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:52.639 it's better to love 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:54.879 than to be a super counselor? 00:15:57.539 --> 00:15:58.500 Why is it better? 00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:02.439 Well, I think to understand that, 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:03.480 we have to understand 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:05.199 Paul's appeal ultimately 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.400 to the law of God 00:16:08.400 --> 00:16:09.340 and Christ. 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:10.800 That 00:16:10.800 --> 00:16:15.080 he 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.320 is talking about something 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:18.960 that Jesus said this about. 00:16:19.780 --> 00:16:21.100 What is the one thing 00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:21.860 most needed? 00:16:22.020 --> 00:16:22.879 Jesus was asked. 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:24.820 What do you need most 00:16:24.820 --> 00:16:25.500 in this life? 00:16:27.160 --> 00:16:28.580 You don't need these gifts. 00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:29.740 You don't need 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:31.259 to keep the law. 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:31.920 You don't need 00:16:31.920 --> 00:16:32.980 to do all these things. 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:34.080 What is the one thing? 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:36.780 Love the Lord your God 00:16:36.780 --> 00:16:37.759 with all your heart, 00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:39.420 soul, mind, and strength. 00:16:40.160 --> 00:16:40.900 Love your neighbor 00:16:40.900 --> 00:16:41.720 as yourself. 00:16:44.140 --> 00:16:45.940 That's why this is important 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:47.780 because this is where 00:16:47.780 --> 00:16:49.680 Jesus places the emphasis. 00:16:50.020 --> 00:16:51.440 Jesus places the emphasis 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.080 not on giftings 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:55.020 but on love. 00:16:56.020 --> 00:16:57.400 And so all Paul's doing 00:16:57.400 --> 00:16:59.240 is applying it then 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:00.700 to the Corinthians. 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:01.600 Why is this? 00:17:02.259 --> 00:17:03.620 Because authentic ministry 00:17:03.620 --> 00:17:04.600 of any kind 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.359 occurs at the intersection 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:08.559 between loving God 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:09.419 and loving others. 00:17:09.879 --> 00:17:10.980 Where loving God 00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:12.119 and loving others happens 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:13.679 is where we do ministry. 00:17:14.459 --> 00:17:15.839 If I say I love God 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:17.139 but do not love my neighbor, 00:17:17.679 --> 00:17:19.219 I have not love. 00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:22.980 If I try to love my neighbor 00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:24.319 without loving God 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:26.480 from whom all love comes from, 00:17:27.179 --> 00:17:28.759 I'm not truly loving my neighbor. 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:30.579 So they're the intersection. 00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:31.419 We live, 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:32.240 brothers and sisters, 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:33.639 at the intersection 00:17:33.639 --> 00:17:35.359 in our ministry 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:36.819 of loving God 00:17:36.819 --> 00:17:37.539 and loving others. 00:17:37.659 --> 00:17:38.139 If we're going to 00:17:38.139 --> 00:17:39.460 effectively help other people, 00:17:39.659 --> 00:17:40.939 we need to love God 00:17:40.939 --> 00:17:41.500 with all the heart, 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:42.299 soul, mind, and strength. 00:17:43.099 --> 00:17:43.899 If we're going to 00:17:43.899 --> 00:17:45.379 effectively love God, 00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:46.899 we need to be committed 00:17:46.899 --> 00:17:48.639 to loving other people. 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:49.679 It's not optional. 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:56.539 God will bless ministry 00:17:56.539 --> 00:17:57.259 that we do 00:17:57.259 --> 00:17:58.620 out of love for Him 00:17:58.620 --> 00:17:59.600 and love others. 00:18:01.180 --> 00:18:02.640 No one will ever 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:04.060 be truly helped 00:18:04.060 --> 00:18:06.500 by us 00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:08.600 if we offer them counsel 00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:10.560 that doesn't have 00:18:10.560 --> 00:18:12.060 as its primary goal 00:18:12.060 --> 00:18:14.060 their love for God 00:18:14.060 --> 00:18:15.840 and love for others. 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.919 We're not fixing problems. 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.679 We're not making people different. 00:18:23.639 --> 00:18:25.839 The goal is always very simple. 00:18:26.699 --> 00:18:28.439 How can I help my brother 00:18:28.439 --> 00:18:31.259 love God and love others? 00:18:32.439 --> 00:18:34.119 It's a wonderful thing 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:36.179 because you have complex people 00:18:36.179 --> 00:18:38.220 who need a simple answer. 00:18:39.819 --> 00:18:41.279 For our ministry, 00:18:41.939 --> 00:18:42.919 whether it's serving 00:18:42.919 --> 00:18:43.799 or giving 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:45.419 or speaking to others, 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.299 it has to be grounded in love. 00:18:47.379 --> 00:18:48.240 For this reason, 00:18:48.659 --> 00:18:50.279 the word I tend to use 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:51.980 is personal ministry. 00:18:52.099 --> 00:18:52.839 That's what I call 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:53.579 what I do. 00:18:54.159 --> 00:18:54.879 Someone comes to me 00:18:54.879 --> 00:18:55.199 and says, 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:55.939 I understand you're 00:18:55.939 --> 00:18:56.659 the counseling pastor, 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:57.319 which I'm not. 00:18:57.379 --> 00:18:58.819 I just oversee 00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:02.199 our quality control 00:19:02.199 --> 00:19:03.139 of the counseling 00:19:03.139 --> 00:19:04.139 we do as pastors. 00:19:04.579 --> 00:19:05.299 I'm a pastor. 00:19:05.899 --> 00:19:06.659 That's what I do. 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:07.980 All of our pastors 00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:08.879 counsel people. 00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:11.039 It's part of our job. 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:12.099 It's part of our calling. 00:19:13.939 --> 00:19:14.980 But when someone comes 00:19:14.980 --> 00:19:15.240 and says, 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:18.259 I understand you're a pastor 00:19:18.259 --> 00:19:18.880 who does counseling. 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.140 Can you counsel me? 00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:23.039 You will never hear me say, 00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:24.259 yes, I'll counsel you. 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:26.680 I'll say, 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:27.799 hey, let's get together. 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:30.700 I'm doing everything I can 00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:31.579 to disconnect 00:19:31.579 --> 00:19:33.420 what I do 00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:35.200 from counseling. 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:37.740 Because counseling comes 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:38.339 embedded 00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:40.019 with all manner 00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:41.700 of unbiblical assumptions 00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:43.720 about my role 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:44.600 and their role 00:19:44.600 --> 00:19:45.460 in the process. 00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:47.440 I was telling 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.400 someone today, 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:51.059 someone, 00:19:51.580 --> 00:19:52.080 and this, 00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:52.720 I don't think 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:53.279 you should all this, 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:54.840 I never schedule 00:19:54.840 --> 00:19:55.900 multiple appointments. 00:19:56.259 --> 00:19:57.319 You've heard people say, 00:19:57.600 --> 00:19:58.259 let's get together 00:19:58.259 --> 00:19:59.059 like once a week 00:19:59.059 --> 00:19:59.880 for like say 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:00.799 the next two months 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:02.640 or whatever it is. 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.640 I never do that. 00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:05.520 I never do that. 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:07.120 I end every session 00:20:07.120 --> 00:20:07.420 with, 00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:08.360 so, 00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:08.880 how'd it go? 00:20:10.340 --> 00:20:10.780 I guess, 00:20:10.860 --> 00:20:11.020 okay. 00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:11.680 You want to do it 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:12.000 next week? 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:13.360 Okay. 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:15.480 And I've done that 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:15.960 with some people 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:16.540 for years. 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:18.180 Not always next week, 00:20:18.540 --> 00:20:19.100 but I never, 00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:19.840 why? 00:20:20.080 --> 00:20:20.700 Because I don't want 00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:21.960 people to be, 00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:22.960 to be, 00:20:23.040 --> 00:20:24.200 people to number one, 00:20:24.540 --> 00:20:25.900 to be dependent 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:27.060 on frequency 00:20:27.060 --> 00:20:27.820 of meetings 00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:29.500 or that I'm essential 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:30.019 to their, 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:30.980 to their dealing 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:31.579 with their problem. 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:32.659 I don't want myself 00:20:32.659 --> 00:20:33.299 to feel essential 00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:33.939 to the problem 00:20:33.939 --> 00:20:36.319 and I want to come 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:37.419 alongside them 00:20:37.419 --> 00:20:38.700 as in their, 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.799 in their life. 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:41.599 I don't want to 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:42.939 build them into 00:20:42.939 --> 00:20:43.700 the way I want 00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:44.359 to do ministry. 00:20:45.379 --> 00:20:46.399 And so it's okay 00:20:46.399 --> 00:20:46.720 to say, 00:20:46.779 --> 00:20:46.939 listen, 00:20:47.019 --> 00:20:47.619 let's get together 00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:48.220 a few times. 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:48.759 That's great. 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:50.000 But there's something 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:50.759 in the nature 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:52.839 of therapeutic counseling 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:53.419 that is, 00:20:53.779 --> 00:20:54.379 we've got to have 00:20:54.379 --> 00:20:55.240 multiple sessions 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:55.679 because we're 00:20:55.679 --> 00:20:56.639 working problems. 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:58.360 that starts 00:20:58.360 --> 00:20:59.400 to move us away 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:00.780 from the primary goal 00:21:00.780 --> 00:21:01.600 of loving God 00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:02.380 and loving others. 00:21:03.020 --> 00:21:03.420 So, 00:21:03.600 --> 00:21:04.040 what we're going 00:21:04.040 --> 00:21:04.620 to do here 00:21:04.620 --> 00:21:07.580 is figure out 00:21:07.580 --> 00:21:08.580 what ways 00:21:08.580 --> 00:21:09.200 can we apply 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:09.940 this passage 00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:11.000 to how we help 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:11.600 other people. 00:21:12.040 --> 00:21:12.460 And I'm just going 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:13.200 to break it down 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:14.340 sort of phrase by phrase 00:21:14.340 --> 00:21:14.620 and we're going 00:21:14.620 --> 00:21:15.380 to walk through it 00:21:15.380 --> 00:21:16.180 and hopefully 00:21:16.180 --> 00:21:16.900 it's helpful to you. 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:17.480 So let's begin. 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:19.060 Love is patient. 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:20.240 In other words, 00:21:20.280 --> 00:21:21.700 love is long-suffering. 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:23.080 There's all these words 00:21:23.080 --> 00:21:24.080 here that are very rich 00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:24.759 in biblical meaning 00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:25.140 we're not going 00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:25.560 to unpack. 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:28.900 But love suffers long. 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:30.759 An implication 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:31.620 of that is this. 00:21:32.600 --> 00:21:33.759 Loving ministry, 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:35.340 loving personal ministry 00:21:35.340 --> 00:21:37.880 doesn't set 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:38.880 a timeline 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:41.380 for anybody's change. 00:21:45.220 --> 00:21:47.060 We have a great tendency 00:21:47.060 --> 00:21:48.320 to sort of say it 00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:48.759 like this. 00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:49.440 We don't mean it 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:50.060 but we kind of 00:21:50.060 --> 00:21:50.740 say it like this. 00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:53.140 I'll invest my time 00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:53.720 this way 00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:54.840 as long as I'm seeing 00:21:54.840 --> 00:21:55.460 a certain amount 00:21:55.460 --> 00:21:56.539 of change in you. 00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:58.299 And we negotiate 00:21:58.299 --> 00:21:59.319 how much commitment 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:00.440 we're willing to make 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:01.500 based on how much 00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:02.420 change they're willing 00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:03.200 to give us. 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:05.100 Now we don't do that 00:22:05.100 --> 00:22:06.519 necessarily in our thinking 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:07.880 but that's implied 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:09.000 in how we try 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:09.720 to help people. 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.620 We have an agenda 00:22:12.620 --> 00:22:14.039 that requires 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:15.259 somebody to change 00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:16.480 for us to be willing 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:17.559 to make the investment 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:18.360 in their lives. 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.359 So if we're patient 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:23.240 we recognize 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:24.119 that my agenda 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:25.119 for your change 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:26.639 is kind of irrelevant 00:22:26.639 --> 00:22:28.719 because the only agenda 00:22:28.719 --> 00:22:29.199 that matters 00:22:29.199 --> 00:22:29.839 for your change 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:30.619 is God's agenda. 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:33.379 I may repeat 00:22:33.379 --> 00:22:34.079 some of these things 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:34.539 a couple times 00:22:34.539 --> 00:22:35.619 but they just come to mind. 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:37.379 This is one thing 00:22:37.379 --> 00:22:38.319 pastors really struggle with 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:38.759 and you may struggle 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:39.240 with it too. 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:40.819 When someone comes to you 00:22:40.819 --> 00:22:41.939 and they bring a problem 00:22:41.939 --> 00:22:42.339 they say, 00:22:42.439 --> 00:22:42.539 listen, 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:43.599 can I talk about something? 00:22:43.939 --> 00:22:44.419 And they bring 00:22:44.419 --> 00:22:45.379 that problem to you. 00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:47.040 You may be like me 00:22:47.040 --> 00:22:48.360 where you sort of feel like 00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:48.780 boom, 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:49.640 the problem is now 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:50.480 at my doorstep. 00:22:50.840 --> 00:22:51.900 I gotta fix it. 00:22:52.580 --> 00:22:53.860 I gotta solve it. 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:56.060 I'm the terminal answer 00:22:56.060 --> 00:22:57.020 to their problem. 00:22:58.660 --> 00:22:59.720 But that's not the way 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:00.460 life works. 00:23:01.600 --> 00:23:02.520 They just happen 00:23:02.520 --> 00:23:03.440 to run into me. 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:04.840 Right? 00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:05.820 Maybe they were directed 00:23:05.820 --> 00:23:06.140 to me. 00:23:06.260 --> 00:23:07.040 Maybe they just felt 00:23:07.040 --> 00:23:08.200 vulnerable when I was there 00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:09.180 and they opened up 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:09.620 their lives. 00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:11.140 The way life is happening 00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:13.280 is they're on a path 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:14.800 and we intersect them 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:15.579 at a certain point. 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:16.720 There's no guarantee 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:17.559 that we're really supposed 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:18.859 to be part of their solution. 00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:20.720 So why do we feel 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:21.379 the responsibility 00:23:21.379 --> 00:23:23.019 to make them change 00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:25.720 because we are now 00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:27.159 investing in them? 00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:28.879 No, we're just meant 00:23:28.879 --> 00:23:30.220 to be part of God's process 00:23:30.220 --> 00:23:30.980 in some way. 00:23:31.099 --> 00:23:32.559 So we want to make sure 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.720 that our orientation 00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:36.799 to people is not 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:37.539 with an expectation 00:23:37.539 --> 00:23:38.919 of change based 00:23:38.919 --> 00:23:39.639 on our investment. 00:23:39.859 --> 00:23:40.659 Second of all, 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:42.099 loving ministry, 00:23:42.099 --> 00:23:43.079 if it's patient, 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:45.480 endures the fruit 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:47.579 of someone's sin. 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:50.519 And that can be hard. 00:23:52.139 --> 00:23:53.679 Paul Tripp said it like this, 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:55.059 in personal ministry, 00:23:55.879 --> 00:23:57.139 the sin of the person 00:23:57.139 --> 00:23:57.960 you are helping 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.000 will eventually be revealed 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.139 in your relationship. 00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:03.079 You have these quotes there. 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:05.159 If you are ministering 00:24:05.159 --> 00:24:06.179 to an angry person, 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:07.419 at some point, 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:08.699 that anger will be 00:24:08.699 --> 00:24:09.819 directed at you. 00:24:09.819 --> 00:24:11.599 If you're helping a person 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:13.159 who struggles with trust, 00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:13.960 at some point, 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:15.819 she will distrust you. 00:24:16.379 --> 00:24:17.619 A manipulative person 00:24:17.619 --> 00:24:19.879 will seek to manipulate you. 00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:21.439 A depressed person 00:24:21.439 --> 00:24:22.079 will tell you 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:23.000 he tried everything 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:23.819 you've suggested 00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:25.119 and it didn't work. 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:27.299 You can't stand next 00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:28.059 to a puddle 00:24:28.059 --> 00:24:30.179 without eventually 00:24:30.179 --> 00:24:31.099 being splashed 00:24:31.099 --> 00:24:31.819 by its mud. 00:24:31.819 --> 00:24:33.819 So if we're going 00:24:33.819 --> 00:24:34.899 to move toward people 00:24:34.899 --> 00:24:35.980 in personal ministry, 00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:37.439 we have to move toward them 00:24:37.439 --> 00:24:38.240 with the idea 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:39.500 that I'm going to need 00:24:39.500 --> 00:24:40.179 to be patient 00:24:40.179 --> 00:24:42.240 because this is not going 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:43.139 to be a smooth ride 00:24:43.139 --> 00:24:43.960 in a lot of cases. 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:46.099 And when we do that, 00:24:46.179 --> 00:24:47.299 we find that we're really 00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:48.759 motivated by love. 00:24:50.879 --> 00:24:51.359 A second, 00:24:51.679 --> 00:24:52.599 love is kind. 00:24:54.659 --> 00:24:55.679 I'll say it like this, 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.039 loving ministry smiles. 00:24:58.379 --> 00:25:00.159 It doesn't have a game face. 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.100 My first real opportunity 00:25:03.100 --> 00:25:05.480 to do what I would call 00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:11.220 formal personal ministry, 00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:12.380 I was leading a small group 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:13.380 before I became a pastor. 00:25:14.060 --> 00:25:15.720 Very new leading the group 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:17.019 and there was a man 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:17.519 in the group 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.080 who was I think 00:25:19.080 --> 00:25:19.640 an unbeliever 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:21.500 and he was dating 00:25:21.500 --> 00:25:23.420 a single mom in the church 00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:24.640 who was a believer 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.140 and he was a nice guy 00:25:27.140 --> 00:25:28.519 but he was kind of rough 00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:29.300 and he basically, 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:30.639 he was brash 00:25:30.639 --> 00:25:31.460 and he would say 00:25:31.460 --> 00:25:32.399 anything and everything 00:25:32.399 --> 00:25:34.139 and he was intimidating. 00:25:35.159 --> 00:25:36.259 And so, 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.480 I felt like I needed 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.899 to talk to him 00:25:41.899 --> 00:25:44.139 about the fact 00:25:44.139 --> 00:25:45.519 that he was involved 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:47.099 in this person's life 00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:48.319 and it was creating challenges 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:49.440 for her and her kids 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:51.099 and she was asking me 00:25:51.099 --> 00:25:52.319 to kind of help with that. 00:25:52.980 --> 00:25:53.319 And so, 00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:55.879 I set up an appointment 00:25:55.879 --> 00:25:56.240 with him 00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:56.779 and at the time 00:25:56.779 --> 00:25:58.039 I was actually working 00:25:58.039 --> 00:25:59.099 in commercial real estate 00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:00.500 so I had a suit on 00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:01.599 and I had an office 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:02.960 and so I thought 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:04.779 I'll get him into the office 00:26:04.779 --> 00:26:05.980 and I'll do a power play. 00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:06.899 Now, 00:26:06.940 --> 00:26:08.359 that wasn't really 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:10.379 the way I was processing it 00:26:10.379 --> 00:26:12.180 but I feared him. 00:26:12.579 --> 00:26:14.000 I didn't want 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:15.480 his brashness 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:16.500 to come out at me. 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:17.839 And so, 00:26:18.099 --> 00:26:19.960 he came in 00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:21.539 and I had him sit down 00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:22.940 across the desk from me 00:26:22.940 --> 00:26:24.860 so every possible power move 00:26:24.860 --> 00:26:26.340 I could produce 00:26:26.340 --> 00:26:28.240 I put into play. 00:26:28.580 --> 00:26:29.360 I had my suit on. 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:29.860 It was my, 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:31.360 so it was my turf 00:26:31.360 --> 00:26:32.860 in my arrangement 00:26:32.860 --> 00:26:34.600 and here he is 00:26:34.600 --> 00:26:35.660 and I, 00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:37.299 and I had on this game face. 00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:38.840 My face was really stern. 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:39.259 It was, 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:40.160 because I was, 00:26:40.299 --> 00:26:41.640 because I geared myself up 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:42.340 to confront him. 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:43.380 And so, 00:26:43.460 --> 00:26:44.620 I kind of start with my spiel 00:26:44.620 --> 00:26:45.519 which I'd rehearsed 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:46.259 and, 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:48.240 and like, 00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:48.720 like, 00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:50.759 a minute into it 00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:51.799 he just said, 00:26:51.860 --> 00:26:51.940 wait, 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:52.080 wait, 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:52.199 wait, 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.319 wait, 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:52.519 wait. 00:26:53.619 --> 00:26:54.579 What is this? 00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:56.240 Well, 00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.240 this isn't you. 00:27:00.699 --> 00:27:01.399 And he just, 00:27:01.679 --> 00:27:01.960 he just, 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:03.379 and it ended up being 00:27:03.379 --> 00:27:04.659 a good conversation 00:27:04.659 --> 00:27:07.279 because he was gracious 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:09.079 when I wasn't. 00:27:09.179 --> 00:27:10.439 Because he was kind 00:27:10.439 --> 00:27:11.439 when I wasn't. 00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:11.699 He said, 00:27:11.919 --> 00:27:13.199 what do you want me to know? 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:14.659 And I said, 00:27:14.679 --> 00:27:14.799 well, 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:14.960 listen, 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:15.199 man, 00:27:15.220 --> 00:27:15.879 I just feel like 00:27:15.879 --> 00:27:16.639 that you're not aware 00:27:16.639 --> 00:27:17.399 of how vulnerable. 00:27:17.859 --> 00:27:18.899 And we just started talking 00:27:18.899 --> 00:27:20.439 and it really 00:27:20.439 --> 00:27:21.179 turned into 00:27:21.179 --> 00:27:21.859 a good conversation. 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:23.559 But he had to confront 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:25.799 the fact that I was having a, 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:26.419 I was, 00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:27.879 I was mostly protecting myself. 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:29.519 I wasn't being kind to him. 00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:30.919 That's happened multiple times. 00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:31.740 There's so many times 00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:32.240 in my life 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:33.839 I've had to call people back 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:34.099 and say, 00:27:34.179 --> 00:27:34.359 listen, 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:34.619 or, 00:27:34.699 --> 00:27:36.159 or grab them on a Sunday morning, 00:27:36.220 --> 00:27:36.419 listen, 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:37.559 I think I was, 00:27:37.699 --> 00:27:38.859 I was impatient with you. 00:27:38.939 --> 00:27:40.299 I don't think I was kind to you. 00:27:41.419 --> 00:27:42.379 We need to be willing 00:27:42.379 --> 00:27:43.019 to do that 00:27:43.019 --> 00:27:44.619 if we're truly kind. 00:27:44.619 --> 00:27:45.579 So we don't want 00:27:45.579 --> 00:27:46.379 to have a game face. 00:27:46.940 --> 00:27:47.060 We, 00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:49.420 again, 00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:50.100 one of the things I did, 00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:50.640 I set 00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:52.780 opposite of him. 00:27:53.800 --> 00:27:54.700 And one of the things 00:27:54.700 --> 00:27:55.460 that we learned 00:27:55.460 --> 00:27:56.280 in counseling class 00:27:56.280 --> 00:27:57.660 was our goal 00:27:57.660 --> 00:27:58.280 in counseling, 00:27:58.700 --> 00:27:59.760 using that terminology, 00:28:00.360 --> 00:28:01.120 is not to sit 00:28:01.120 --> 00:28:02.480 across from somebody 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:03.600 and look at a problem, 00:28:04.280 --> 00:28:05.220 but try to figure out 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:05.960 how do we get on 00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:06.840 the same side 00:28:06.840 --> 00:28:07.620 of the table 00:28:07.620 --> 00:28:09.020 so we can look 00:28:09.020 --> 00:28:09.520 at problems 00:28:09.520 --> 00:28:10.320 the same way. 00:28:10.919 --> 00:28:11.700 How do I get on, 00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:12.939 how can I come over 00:28:12.939 --> 00:28:13.619 to your side 00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:14.159 of the table? 00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:14.779 How can I, 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:15.480 that's, 00:28:15.679 --> 00:28:17.259 that's kind. 00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:19.159 I don't want to look 00:28:19.159 --> 00:28:20.079 at it from my perspective 00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:20.899 and try to get you 00:28:20.899 --> 00:28:21.299 to see it 00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:21.899 from my perspective. 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:22.740 It doesn't mean 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:23.179 that we're necessarily 00:28:23.179 --> 00:28:23.619 going to agree, 00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:24.419 but if we can get 00:28:24.419 --> 00:28:25.099 on the same side 00:28:25.099 --> 00:28:25.579 of the table, 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.379 maybe we can actually 00:28:27.379 --> 00:28:28.259 talk about it 00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:29.519 in a way that's helpful. 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:31.599 And this is important. 00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:32.939 Loving ministry 00:28:32.939 --> 00:28:35.159 doesn't make promises 00:28:35.159 --> 00:28:36.500 it can't keep. 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:41.939 This often happens 00:28:41.939 --> 00:28:42.939 when you have people 00:28:42.939 --> 00:28:44.099 and you're, 00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:44.339 you're, 00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:45.039 you're administering 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:45.740 somebody who is, 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:46.419 I would call 00:28:46.419 --> 00:28:47.679 a difficult person, 00:28:48.859 --> 00:28:50.460 a person who may be, 00:28:51.099 --> 00:28:52.000 let me give you a scenario, 00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:52.720 maybe you're, 00:28:52.779 --> 00:28:53.799 you're familiar with this. 00:28:56.139 --> 00:28:57.439 Sometimes we call them 00:28:57.439 --> 00:28:58.240 needy people, 00:28:58.379 --> 00:28:59.399 they're emotionally needy, 00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:00.220 they seem to, 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:01.980 they seem to have a, 00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:03.539 have a bottomless well 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:05.359 of need for, 00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:06.399 for input, 00:29:06.639 --> 00:29:07.200 for care, 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:07.960 for attention. 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:08.319 And, 00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:10.920 and so what will 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:11.779 often happen 00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:13.279 is a person 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:14.059 who's got those 00:29:14.059 --> 00:29:14.680 kind of struggles, 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:15.120 no matter where 00:29:15.120 --> 00:29:15.700 they're coming from, 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:16.480 that tendency 00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:18.539 will come into 00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:19.400 a church environment 00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:20.539 or a fellowship environment 00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:22.200 and will seek out 00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:23.819 people who have 00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:24.900 mercy tendencies, 00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:26.900 people who are 00:29:26.900 --> 00:29:27.440 merciful. 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:29.100 And they'll let, 00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:29.700 they'll, 00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:30.799 they'll latch on 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:32.019 to a merciful person. 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:33.220 And because that 00:29:33.220 --> 00:29:33.880 merciful person 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:34.960 initially cares, 00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:36.640 they, 00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:37.940 they let that happen. 00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:38.240 which is, 00:29:38.380 --> 00:29:39.220 which at some point 00:29:39.220 --> 00:29:39.579 is okay. 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.340 But then the merciful person 00:29:41.340 --> 00:29:42.880 begins to feel responsible. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:45.360 And the person 00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:46.160 wants them 00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:47.079 to feel responsible. 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:48.220 And they'll say things 00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:49.079 like, 00:29:49.840 --> 00:29:50.539 I don't, 00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:52.140 I've never had a friend 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:52.660 like you. 00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:54.500 I don't know 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:55.360 what I would do 00:29:55.360 --> 00:29:55.900 if you weren't 00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:56.480 in my life. 00:30:02.059 --> 00:30:02.500 For, 00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:02.799 for, 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:04.100 for once in my life, 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:05.200 I feel like I finally 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:05.779 have somebody 00:30:05.779 --> 00:30:06.519 who knows me. 00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:09.400 So what happens 00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:10.059 is you're there 00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:10.839 and then you begin 00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:11.359 to recognize 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:12.440 you're over your head. 00:30:13.379 --> 00:30:13.879 And now they, 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:15.259 and now it's just you. 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:16.279 You realize all the other 00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:17.259 people who were 00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:18.079 kind of there 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:19.420 initially in that group 00:30:19.420 --> 00:30:20.559 have all kind of 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:21.160 stepped aside 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:21.440 and said, 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:22.059 you go girl. 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:22.879 And, 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:24.639 and, 00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:25.920 and so you're there 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:27.099 and you recognize 00:30:27.099 --> 00:30:27.700 this is starting 00:30:27.700 --> 00:30:29.000 to swallow you whole. 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.720 and so then 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:31.700 you pull back 00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:34.099 and find various ways 00:30:34.099 --> 00:30:35.339 to try to manage 00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:36.500 them back into the group 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:36.680 or, 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:37.619 or separate 00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:39.039 or change your number 00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:39.880 or something. 00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:42.920 And that comes across 00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:43.900 to them as massive 00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:44.599 rejection. 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:45.559 I, 00:30:45.700 --> 00:30:46.720 I made myself 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.140 vulnerable to you 00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:49.339 and what did you do? 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:50.740 You rejected me. 00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:52.500 And then there's 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:53.339 an explosion 00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:55.180 and then they disappear. 00:30:55.180 --> 00:30:58.160 And then they retreat. 00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:01.080 And you're left 00:31:01.080 --> 00:31:01.960 with what happened. 00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:03.960 And they're left 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:04.640 with a cycle 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:05.700 that's going to start again. 00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:08.400 It's a cycle. 00:31:09.259 --> 00:31:10.180 It's a cycle. 00:31:10.299 --> 00:31:11.320 It's a rejection cycle. 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.840 And we in good intentions 00:31:13.840 --> 00:31:14.860 play into it. 00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:15.180 Why? 00:31:15.840 --> 00:31:17.480 Because we promise ourselves, 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:18.940 we promise ourselves 00:31:18.940 --> 00:31:19.640 to them in ways 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:20.340 we can't deliver. 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:22.920 We can't be that. 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:24.920 We become functional Jesus 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:25.420 to them. 00:31:26.300 --> 00:31:27.580 We replace their need 00:31:27.580 --> 00:31:28.480 for God with us. 00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:28.980 Why? 00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:30.360 Because it can make us 00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:31.140 feel good 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:32.980 to be that needed. 00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:34.539 Number two, 00:31:35.060 --> 00:31:35.420 we can, 00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:37.480 we can overemphasize 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.039 the value of our care 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:42.700 and actually undermine 00:31:42.700 --> 00:31:43.620 our understanding 00:31:43.620 --> 00:31:44.620 of the body of Christ 00:31:44.620 --> 00:31:45.700 by letting them attach 00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:46.460 to individuals. 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:47.980 People who have that tendency 00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:49.640 have a difficult time 00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:51.039 in social relationships. 00:31:51.820 --> 00:31:52.160 You'll see, 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:53.060 you'll hear people say 00:31:53.060 --> 00:31:53.820 things like, 00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:54.620 well, 00:31:54.619 --> 00:31:55.939 I don't like superficial. 00:31:56.179 --> 00:31:57.379 I only want to be deep. 00:32:01.379 --> 00:32:02.459 If you're here 00:32:02.459 --> 00:32:05.699 and you don't like superficial, 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:09.359 learn to like it. 00:32:11.419 --> 00:32:12.079 Superficial 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.259 is where you build bridges. 00:32:16.399 --> 00:32:17.239 Superficial is where 00:32:17.239 --> 00:32:18.139 true trust is built. 00:32:18.919 --> 00:32:20.459 None of us like superficial. 00:32:20.619 --> 00:32:20.799 Although, 00:32:20.959 --> 00:32:21.839 I like superficial. 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:23.459 A lot of guys like superficial. 00:32:23.779 --> 00:32:24.919 We can live our whole lives 00:32:24.919 --> 00:32:25.980 superficial. 00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:27.199 Not everybody. 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:27.959 But, 00:32:28.099 --> 00:32:30.720 but there is a danger 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:31.259 to think, 00:32:31.379 --> 00:32:32.539 I just don't like superficial. 00:32:32.679 --> 00:32:33.480 I only want depth. 00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:35.459 Because with depth 00:32:35.459 --> 00:32:35.959 becomes, 00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:37.819 becomes premature expectation 00:32:37.819 --> 00:32:39.599 and premature 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.220 dependence. 00:32:41.220 --> 00:32:42.860 So we want to let, 00:32:42.860 --> 00:32:44.059 we want relationships, 00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:44.720 whether they're, 00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:45.299 they're friendships 00:32:45.299 --> 00:32:46.960 or just ministry relationships, 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.920 develop on a path 00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:51.339 that allows us 00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:52.480 to have space 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:52.720 to, 00:32:52.819 --> 00:32:53.240 to, 00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:53.700 to, 00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:54.559 to be close 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:55.539 and not to be close 00:32:55.539 --> 00:32:55.720 and, 00:32:55.860 --> 00:32:56.740 and be in groups 00:32:56.740 --> 00:32:58.000 and be together 00:32:58.000 --> 00:32:58.360 and, 00:32:58.600 --> 00:33:00.299 and not always interact. 00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:01.839 those kind of things 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:02.220 are necessary 00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:03.000 for any good relationship, 00:33:03.099 --> 00:33:03.639 particularly a, 00:33:03.639 --> 00:33:04.720 a ministry relationship. 00:33:04.819 --> 00:33:05.700 Another thing can happen 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:07.519 in this kind of a situation 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:09.279 and you may have experienced 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:09.960 this as well. 00:33:10.879 --> 00:33:11.779 It sometimes happens 00:33:11.779 --> 00:33:12.539 when people are struggling 00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:13.180 with things like, 00:33:13.180 --> 00:33:13.599 like, 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:15.759 addictions 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:18.879 or life controlling problems. 00:33:19.879 --> 00:33:20.119 Their, 00:33:20.299 --> 00:33:22.980 their life 00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:23.899 is like this. 00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:25.000 If you watch them 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:26.079 live their life, 00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:27.859 it's just all over the map, 00:33:27.919 --> 00:33:28.159 right? 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:29.680 They're just, 00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:30.200 you know, 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:30.660 I don't know where, 00:33:30.740 --> 00:33:31.360 I don't know what they're doing. 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:34.580 And what they really want us to do 00:33:34.580 --> 00:33:37.820 is follow wherever they go. 00:33:38.620 --> 00:33:40.380 They want us just to run 00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:41.620 as fast as they're running 00:33:41.620 --> 00:33:42.779 and follow wherever 00:33:42.779 --> 00:33:43.600 they want us to go. 00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:44.460 Guess what? 00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:46.279 We'll never be able to do that 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:49.200 and we will frustrate them 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.019 in our attempt. 00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:53.000 What I recommend we do 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:53.759 when we have somebody 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.000 who is chaotic 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:56.440 in the way they're doing things 00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:57.320 and living their lives, 00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:00.099 I recommend you fix a position 00:34:00.099 --> 00:34:01.740 and you say, 00:34:01.819 --> 00:34:02.539 here I am. 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:04.819 And you let them run around you. 00:34:06.700 --> 00:34:08.219 Because over time, 00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:09.799 if they're confident, 00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:11.819 you're not going to chase them. 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:13.819 And they're confident 00:34:13.819 --> 00:34:14.840 that, 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:16.460 that you're going to stay there. 00:34:16.539 --> 00:34:17.659 You're not going to go away. 00:34:17.739 --> 00:34:18.759 You're just going to be here. 00:34:19.699 --> 00:34:21.679 Then they'll begin to adjust 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:23.400 to where you're standing. 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.840 They'll recognize 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:28.079 that they can't text you 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:29.579 at all times, 00:34:29.740 --> 00:34:30.460 day and night, 00:34:30.579 --> 00:34:31.680 and have you respond 00:34:31.680 --> 00:34:32.720 simply because they're 00:34:32.720 --> 00:34:33.660 sending you a text. 00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:35.079 I have a whole, 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:36.460 I'm going to rant 00:34:36.460 --> 00:34:37.200 at some point tonight 00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:37.800 about texting, 00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:39.119 but not right now. 00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:42.400 But that's what happens. 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:42.680 See, 00:34:43.019 --> 00:34:44.400 it's not kind 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.700 to fall into unhealthy patterns 00:34:47.700 --> 00:34:48.760 that other people have 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:50.099 for their lives 00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:50.900 trying to help them. 00:34:50.900 --> 00:34:52.300 So, 00:34:53.660 --> 00:34:56.720 love does not envy or boast. 00:34:58.340 --> 00:35:00.119 The background behind that a bit 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:00.820 is that 00:35:00.820 --> 00:35:02.599 there was tremendous jealousy 00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:03.240 in Corinth 00:35:03.240 --> 00:35:04.400 over who had what gifts. 00:35:04.700 --> 00:35:05.559 And they were, 00:35:05.720 --> 00:35:06.700 people who were boasting 00:35:06.700 --> 00:35:07.639 they had this gift 00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:08.480 or boasting they were 00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:09.180 of this apostle 00:35:09.180 --> 00:35:10.019 and other people 00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:11.280 were envious of this gift 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:12.019 or this apostle. 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:13.079 So he's saying 00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:14.519 love does not envy or boast. 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:15.460 So loving ministry 00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:16.680 does not seek 00:35:16.680 --> 00:35:18.300 personal identity 00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:21.880 from doing ministry 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:22.660 to others 00:35:22.660 --> 00:35:24.400 or 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:27.340 prove competency 00:35:27.340 --> 00:35:29.580 by doing ministry 00:35:29.580 --> 00:35:30.180 to others. 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:32.360 We don't want to 00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:33.100 seek identity. 00:35:34.420 --> 00:35:35.240 One of my concerns 00:35:35.240 --> 00:35:35.700 about people 00:35:35.700 --> 00:35:36.860 who go into counseling, 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:39.400 not that everybody does, 00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:41.160 but a lot of people 00:35:41.160 --> 00:35:41.980 go into counseling 00:35:41.980 --> 00:35:43.160 because of a need 00:35:43.160 --> 00:35:44.340 to feel 00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:46.800 helpful to other people. 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.820 I had a 00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:50.420 one, 00:35:50.660 --> 00:35:52.440 I can remember it vividly, 00:35:53.120 --> 00:35:53.920 I do a lot of counseling 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:54.539 on Saturdays 00:35:54.539 --> 00:35:55.140 when people are off. 00:35:55.200 --> 00:35:56.400 So one time I had, 00:35:57.780 --> 00:35:58.320 I don't think I had 00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.120 five appointments 00:35:59.120 --> 00:35:59.700 in a row 00:35:59.700 --> 00:36:00.660 on a Saturday 00:36:00.660 --> 00:36:01.539 which was a lot for me. 00:36:02.580 --> 00:36:03.900 And I got to the end of the day 00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:04.600 I was tired. 00:36:06.100 --> 00:36:06.760 But I felt, 00:36:06.860 --> 00:36:06.980 you know, 00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:07.700 each one of them 00:36:07.700 --> 00:36:08.300 I felt like God 00:36:08.300 --> 00:36:09.240 was just there 00:36:09.240 --> 00:36:10.940 and met us 00:36:10.940 --> 00:36:11.780 and I felt like 00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:12.260 there was just 00:36:12.260 --> 00:36:13.300 the sense of the, 00:36:13.560 --> 00:36:14.180 the sense of 00:36:14.179 --> 00:36:15.579 this was valuable 00:36:15.579 --> 00:36:17.039 and they were expressing it, 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:17.859 thank you so much. 00:36:18.759 --> 00:36:20.339 And I walked out of my car 00:36:20.339 --> 00:36:20.659 and I said, 00:36:20.739 --> 00:36:20.879 Lord, 00:36:21.139 --> 00:36:22.599 this is what I'm called to, 00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:24.019 this is what I feel like 00:36:24.019 --> 00:36:24.980 my gifts are, 00:36:25.339 --> 00:36:26.500 this is what I feel like 00:36:26.500 --> 00:36:28.599 is my calling. 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:30.319 And I, 00:36:31.279 --> 00:36:32.519 this doesn't happen often, 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:33.679 but I had one of those moments 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:34.799 where I felt like God 00:36:34.799 --> 00:36:36.960 almost spoke audibly to me. 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:38.440 Right? 00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.000 And I know it's the Lord 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:41.700 because when the Lord 00:36:41.700 --> 00:36:43.019 speaks that way to me, 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:44.079 he calls me sport. 00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:45.800 So, 00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:47.820 so he's a sport. 00:36:50.619 --> 00:36:52.139 If you're going to take credit 00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:54.200 for all that's happening, 00:36:54.740 --> 00:36:55.940 you're going to need to take 00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:56.740 the blame as well 00:36:56.740 --> 00:36:57.659 when it doesn't happen. 00:36:58.920 --> 00:36:59.179 And I was like, 00:36:59.220 --> 00:36:59.340 okay, 00:36:59.420 --> 00:36:59.700 I don't know. 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:01.960 And from that point on, 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:03.099 I take no credit, 00:37:03.200 --> 00:37:04.740 I get no satisfaction 00:37:04.740 --> 00:37:07.079 for a good day of counseling. 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:09.159 I take that to the cross. 00:37:09.279 --> 00:37:09.380 Lord, 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:09.880 if there's anything 00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:10.739 that happened to your purpose 00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:11.699 that's good, 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:12.940 it's because you've done it. 00:37:13.319 --> 00:37:13.480 Now, 00:37:13.619 --> 00:37:13.759 I, 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:15.319 I love people 00:37:15.319 --> 00:37:15.840 and I, 00:37:15.980 --> 00:37:17.639 I love when a relationship 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:18.799 gets furthered along 00:37:18.799 --> 00:37:20.219 and where we have fellowship 00:37:20.219 --> 00:37:21.719 and I want to rejoice 00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:22.539 in fellowship, 00:37:22.819 --> 00:37:24.319 but my sense of, 00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:25.460 of being helpful 00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:26.199 to other people, 00:37:26.299 --> 00:37:27.420 I want to crucify. 00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:30.319 Because if I'm being helpful, 00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:31.619 that means I'm not counting 00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:32.639 on God being helpful. 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:35.360 So we don't want to boast 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:36.059 in that. 00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:37.159 Another thing we don't want to do 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:38.719 is we don't want to, 00:37:39.799 --> 00:37:40.739 loving ministry 00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:42.619 does not care 00:37:42.619 --> 00:37:43.820 who gets the credit. 00:37:45.279 --> 00:37:46.500 Which you will find 00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.299 over time. 00:37:47.759 --> 00:37:48.639 You invest 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:49.460 and pour your life 00:37:49.460 --> 00:37:50.599 into somebody's life. 00:37:52.340 --> 00:37:53.380 And then they say, 00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:53.539 well, 00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:53.940 you know what, 00:37:54.019 --> 00:37:54.400 she was, 00:37:55.539 --> 00:37:56.759 she was, 00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:57.880 she meant well. 00:37:58.739 --> 00:37:58.980 You know, 00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:00.099 she tried, 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.299 but this person over here, 00:38:01.659 --> 00:38:02.380 that's where, 00:38:02.860 --> 00:38:03.940 and they start talking 00:38:03.940 --> 00:38:04.980 about how God changed them 00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:05.760 and you're saying, 00:38:06.659 --> 00:38:09.119 I said all those things 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.840 a year ago. 00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:13.860 And you start to feel jealous 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:15.240 that you're not getting credit 00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:18.219 for the work you did. 00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:20.019 That's that tendency 00:38:20.019 --> 00:38:21.340 to envy and boast. 00:38:21.980 --> 00:38:23.159 Love is not arrogant 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:24.139 or rude. 00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:26.380 Loving ministry 00:38:26.380 --> 00:38:27.619 does not speak 00:38:27.619 --> 00:38:29.000 presumptively 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:30.820 into someone's trial. 00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:35.880 For example, 00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:37.480 do we really know 00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:39.159 how someone is feeling? 00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:45.300 There is a great tendency 00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:45.780 that we have 00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:46.260 because we're 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:49.739 diagnosticians. 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:51.219 Because that's what 00:38:51.219 --> 00:38:53.579 therapeutic counseling culture 00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:54.619 teaches us to be, 00:38:54.739 --> 00:38:56.179 to diagnose people. 00:38:56.179 --> 00:38:57.559 And so we tend 00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:58.419 to interact 00:38:58.419 --> 00:38:59.079 with somebody 00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:00.019 and we diagnose 00:39:00.019 --> 00:39:00.919 their problem 00:39:00.919 --> 00:39:02.419 and then we start 00:39:02.419 --> 00:39:04.119 speaking into the problem 00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:05.659 with no understanding 00:39:05.659 --> 00:39:06.559 of context. 00:39:07.419 --> 00:39:08.539 No understanding 00:39:08.539 --> 00:39:10.299 of who is this person 00:39:10.299 --> 00:39:11.139 in their problem. 00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:12.099 We don't really care 00:39:12.099 --> 00:39:13.419 because we're problem focused 00:39:13.419 --> 00:39:13.980 because a lot of 00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:14.960 therapeutic orientation 00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:17.019 because of the nature 00:39:17.019 --> 00:39:17.960 of what it is, 00:39:18.019 --> 00:39:18.639 because the nature 00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:19.199 of you've got a limited 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:19.779 amount of time 00:39:19.779 --> 00:39:21.179 and you have to have 00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:21.799 a strategy 00:39:21.799 --> 00:39:23.019 to tackle problems, 00:39:23.019 --> 00:39:25.880 is a lot of times 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:26.759 data collection 00:39:26.759 --> 00:39:28.000 for the sake of therapy. 00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:30.199 It's not relationship 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:31.159 for the sake 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:32.219 of mutual change. 00:39:34.019 --> 00:39:34.840 And so we tend 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:35.460 to want to, 00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:36.880 we buy into that. 00:39:37.179 --> 00:39:38.360 We buy into the idea 00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:40.199 where we can have 00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:40.960 this encounter 00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:42.099 and we know 00:39:42.099 --> 00:39:42.900 what they need. 00:39:43.699 --> 00:39:45.139 But we have to ask ourselves, 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:46.759 do we really know 00:39:46.759 --> 00:39:48.440 what someone needs 00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:50.019 or someone is feeling? 00:39:50.019 --> 00:39:52.119 Have you ever sat down 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:52.699 with someone 00:39:52.699 --> 00:39:53.719 and felt like 00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:55.440 they already decided 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:56.679 what you needed 00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:58.559 before you even 00:39:58.559 --> 00:39:59.519 started to speak? 00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:02.219 Someone had told them 00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:03.440 what you're dealing with, 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:04.099 you started to come 00:40:04.099 --> 00:40:04.619 and talk to them 00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:05.219 and you felt like 00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:05.940 they'd already developed 00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:08.079 conclusions about it. 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:10.219 One of the hardest things 00:40:10.219 --> 00:40:12.219 to do is to see 00:40:12.219 --> 00:40:13.139 a situation 00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:15.360 and not presume 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:17.519 you have the antidote. 00:40:17.659 --> 00:40:18.920 That takes a great amount 00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:20.039 of self-control. 00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:21.619 Particularly if you do 00:40:21.619 --> 00:40:22.320 a lot of ministry 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:22.920 like I do, 00:40:23.340 --> 00:40:24.659 I can read people 00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:28.039 and have a pretty good idea 00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:29.420 of what they're dealing with 00:40:29.420 --> 00:40:31.559 just through experience, 00:40:31.780 --> 00:40:32.639 through the range 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:33.880 of counseling people. 00:40:34.139 --> 00:40:34.820 But that doesn't mean 00:40:34.820 --> 00:40:35.519 I really know. 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:37.639 At best it's conjecture 00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:39.260 and educated guess. 00:40:39.680 --> 00:40:40.860 But if I impose that 00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:41.360 upon them, 00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:43.500 I'm making their struggle 00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:45.039 fit my assessment. 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:47.059 And we cannot do that. 00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:51.900 The other thing we can do 00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:53.360 is we can have 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:54.079 an experience 00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:56.579 and then try to use that 00:40:56.579 --> 00:40:57.579 and leverage that 00:40:57.579 --> 00:40:58.460 to speak into 00:40:58.460 --> 00:40:59.480 other people's experience. 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:03.920 And we can't use 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:04.680 our own experience. 00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:05.680 Now there is a way 00:41:05.680 --> 00:41:07.559 to tap into. 00:41:07.700 --> 00:41:08.099 It's actually 00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:09.420 anti-therapeutic 00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:10.920 because in a therapeutic culture 00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:11.659 you're not meant 00:41:11.659 --> 00:41:13.240 to bring your own experiences in. 00:41:13.820 --> 00:41:14.599 You're a clinician 00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:15.680 and you're meant to keep it 00:41:15.680 --> 00:41:16.880 within the clinician boundaries. 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:18.720 Sometimes biblical counseling 00:41:18.720 --> 00:41:19.940 you do bring 00:41:19.940 --> 00:41:21.079 experience in. 00:41:21.160 --> 00:41:21.860 It's essential. 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:23.720 But how we do that 00:41:23.720 --> 00:41:25.019 is not, 00:41:25.240 --> 00:41:26.760 oh, I know you lost this, 00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:27.860 I lost this. 00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:30.539 There's no comparison 00:41:30.539 --> 00:41:31.260 at that level 00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:32.320 between what you've lost 00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:32.980 and what I lost. 00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:35.980 I'm not helping you 00:41:35.980 --> 00:41:37.519 by imposing my experience 00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:38.420 onto your experience. 00:41:38.740 --> 00:41:39.900 So we can talk about 00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:40.880 how to do that 00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:41.640 but we have to be careful 00:41:41.640 --> 00:41:42.380 not to assume 00:41:42.380 --> 00:41:43.220 that our experience 00:41:43.220 --> 00:41:44.220 can speak to other 00:41:44.220 --> 00:41:44.960 people's experience. 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:46.980 love does not insist 00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:47.880 on its own way. 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:49.360 Loving ministry 00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:50.860 does not impose 00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:52.159 our way of thinking 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:53.340 on another person. 00:41:54.659 --> 00:41:55.380 What we think, 00:41:55.460 --> 00:41:56.579 not only how we understand 00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:57.240 their problem 00:41:57.240 --> 00:41:58.659 but how we understand 00:41:58.659 --> 00:41:59.920 how to deal with problems. 00:42:01.099 --> 00:42:02.380 You might be somebody 00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:07.480 who is a rational process 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:08.619 or the way you deal 00:42:08.619 --> 00:42:09.380 with problems 00:42:09.380 --> 00:42:10.599 is okay, 00:42:10.720 --> 00:42:11.460 what's the issue? 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:13.059 How do I define it? 00:42:13.059 --> 00:42:14.219 How do I look and see 00:42:14.219 --> 00:42:15.480 what the Bible says about it? 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:16.840 And then how do I produce 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:18.380 a game plan for change 00:42:18.380 --> 00:42:18.880 for my life? 00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:20.340 That might work great for you. 00:42:21.279 --> 00:42:22.519 It may have nothing to do 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:23.159 with the person 00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:24.579 who you're meeting with. 00:42:25.299 --> 00:42:26.759 You can't impose that on them. 00:42:27.019 --> 00:42:27.940 You may be a person 00:42:27.940 --> 00:42:28.860 who feels like 00:42:28.860 --> 00:42:29.639 what you've got to do 00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:30.559 is you've got to pull 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:31.500 the emotions out. 00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:32.179 You've got to take 00:42:32.179 --> 00:42:32.820 what is inside 00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:33.340 and you've got to 00:42:33.340 --> 00:42:34.960 bring it out to the surface 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:36.019 and then we have to deal 00:42:36.019 --> 00:42:37.440 with it that way. 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:39.139 You're going to frustrate 00:42:39.139 --> 00:42:40.059 a lot of people 00:42:40.059 --> 00:42:41.739 because frankly 00:42:41.739 --> 00:42:42.460 they don't like 00:42:42.460 --> 00:42:43.639 talking about their emotions 00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:45.599 and nothing you do 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:46.980 and if they try 00:42:46.980 --> 00:42:48.840 you'll find it really 00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:49.400 is unfulfilling 00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:50.219 for them and for you 00:42:50.219 --> 00:42:50.880 because they don't have 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:52.599 the skill to do that. 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:54.099 It's not who they are. 00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:55.960 So we have to be careful 00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:57.099 not to think 00:42:57.099 --> 00:42:59.920 that our way 00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:01.079 of handling problems 00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:01.739 is the way 00:43:01.739 --> 00:43:02.920 they should handle problems. 00:43:03.500 --> 00:43:05.799 One quick application 00:43:05.799 --> 00:43:06.259 of this 00:43:06.259 --> 00:43:07.840 and I hope you don't 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:09.019 have to deal with this 00:43:09.019 --> 00:43:10.720 but it's one of the 00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:11.640 great mistakes 00:43:11.640 --> 00:43:12.360 people make 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.000 dealing with domestic abuse. 00:43:15.820 --> 00:43:17.120 Someone is in a domestic 00:43:17.120 --> 00:43:18.660 situation where there is 00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:20.019 domestic abuse going on 00:43:20.019 --> 00:43:24.440 and well-meaning friends 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.740 who are discovering it 00:43:26.740 --> 00:43:29.860 are become very 00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:32.960 can become very aggressive 00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:35.200 in telling the person 00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:36.519 what they need to do 00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:37.380 to get out of it. 00:43:38.780 --> 00:43:39.260 Understandably 00:43:39.260 --> 00:43:40.000 we see somebody 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:40.980 in a horrible situation 00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:42.559 we want them out of it 00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:43.780 but one of the things 00:43:43.780 --> 00:43:44.920 you cannot do 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:45.680 with someone 00:43:45.680 --> 00:43:47.000 in a domestic abuse 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.100 is be another 00:43:49.100 --> 00:43:50.600 controlling voice. 00:43:50.700 --> 00:43:51.240 They've already got 00:43:51.240 --> 00:43:52.340 one controlling voice 00:43:52.340 --> 00:43:53.000 in their life. 00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:54.559 They don't need 00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:56.120 a person who's in 00:43:56.120 --> 00:43:58.180 a domestic abuse situation 00:43:58.180 --> 00:44:00.240 has lost the ability 00:44:00.240 --> 00:44:01.320 to think 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:02.880 as a personal agent. 00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:03.920 They only know 00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:04.519 how to think 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:05.840 based on how somebody else 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:06.880 is defining their life 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:08.220 and if you come in 00:44:08.220 --> 00:44:09.619 and are also doing that 00:44:09.619 --> 00:44:10.760 they won't differentiate. 00:44:11.700 --> 00:44:12.400 They will follow 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:13.059 what you say 00:44:13.059 --> 00:44:13.780 but it won't be 00:44:13.780 --> 00:44:14.539 their decisions 00:44:14.539 --> 00:44:15.579 it will be them 00:44:15.579 --> 00:44:17.160 making decisions 00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:18.400 because of your pressure 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:19.500 and the problem is 00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:20.360 you're not there 00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:21.680 to deal with the consequences 00:44:21.680 --> 00:44:22.300 of the decision 00:44:22.300 --> 00:44:22.920 they make 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:23.760 and when someone 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.160 is in a domestic abuse situation 00:44:26.160 --> 00:44:28.000 there rarely ever 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:29.400 is a good choice. 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.559 it's only how many 00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:32.579 consequences 00:44:32.579 --> 00:44:33.619 in a bad choice 00:44:33.619 --> 00:44:34.079 there are 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:35.720 or how many choices 00:44:35.720 --> 00:44:36.019 there are 00:44:36.019 --> 00:44:37.059 and what were the consequences. 00:44:37.660 --> 00:44:39.039 In someone trying 00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:40.180 to get out of abuse 00:44:40.180 --> 00:44:43.059 there's never a clean road 00:44:43.059 --> 00:44:45.139 and so we want 00:44:45.139 --> 00:44:46.119 to be very careful 00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:47.840 what we're trying to do 00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.220 in a domestic abuse situation 00:44:49.220 --> 00:44:50.099 if you're trying 00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:50.920 to help somebody 00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:52.039 is you're trying 00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:52.619 to help them 00:44:52.619 --> 00:44:54.800 reclaim their own voice. 00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:59.000 help them to understand 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:00.360 no you can differentiate 00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.420 between the oppressor 00:45:02.420 --> 00:45:04.660 and their perspective of you 00:45:04.660 --> 00:45:05.700 and who you are. 00:45:06.740 --> 00:45:07.480 So they ask you 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:08.180 what should I do? 00:45:08.420 --> 00:45:09.180 I don't know. 00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:10.900 I don't know 00:45:10.900 --> 00:45:11.580 it would be wrong 00:45:11.580 --> 00:45:12.500 for me to presume 00:45:12.500 --> 00:45:13.860 I know what you should do. 00:45:14.100 --> 00:45:15.380 I'd be taking control 00:45:15.380 --> 00:45:16.200 of your life 00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:17.640 and that's the exact thing 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:18.360 you don't want. 00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:20.720 So this is a case 00:45:20.720 --> 00:45:21.280 where we're dealing 00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:21.800 with somebody 00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:23.420 we can't impose 00:45:23.420 --> 00:45:24.420 our thinking 00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:26.280 into their situation 00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:27.480 or we can do 00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:28.260 great damage. 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:33.860 Love is not irritable 00:45:33.860 --> 00:45:34.460 or resentful. 00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:35.559 Loving ministry 00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:37.139 is not easily provoked 00:45:37.139 --> 00:45:38.720 and you've known this 00:45:38.720 --> 00:45:39.800 some people just seem 00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:40.539 wired 00:45:40.539 --> 00:45:41.760 to 00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.059 you know 00:45:44.059 --> 00:45:44.960 to irritate you. 00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:47.240 They just 00:45:47.240 --> 00:45:48.180 whatever they do 00:45:48.180 --> 00:45:49.000 the way their texts 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:49.619 come across 00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:50.059 the way 00:45:50.059 --> 00:45:51.400 anything they do 00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:52.680 even they just 00:45:52.680 --> 00:45:53.579 happen to catch you 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:54.880 they have an amazing 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:55.759 ability to catch you 00:45:55.759 --> 00:45:56.719 at bad times. 00:45:57.819 --> 00:45:58.019 Right? 00:45:58.319 --> 00:45:59.539 When you're not doing well 00:45:59.539 --> 00:46:00.539 that's when they're not 00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:01.079 doing well. 00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:02.579 Or they just 00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:03.719 are not very 00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:04.779 fun people. 00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:06.980 And so you get 00:46:06.980 --> 00:46:08.279 no relational benefit 00:46:08.279 --> 00:46:09.239 and they're just 00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:10.259 kind of irritating. 00:46:13.219 --> 00:46:14.340 They seem to exist 00:46:14.340 --> 00:46:15.219 for no other purpose 00:46:15.219 --> 00:46:16.179 than to push our buttons. 00:46:16.179 --> 00:46:20.219 we have to recognize 00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:21.199 that love 00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:22.899 does not let that 00:46:22.899 --> 00:46:24.819 change our perspective 00:46:24.819 --> 00:46:25.699 about somebody. 00:46:27.919 --> 00:46:29.099 And loving ministry 00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:30.019 also doesn't 00:46:30.019 --> 00:46:30.579 take up 00:46:30.579 --> 00:46:31.039 offenses 00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:32.059 that's being irritable 00:46:32.059 --> 00:46:32.799 when 00:46:32.799 --> 00:46:34.039 and this will happen 00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:34.519 sometimes 00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:36.000 in marriage situations 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:36.519 where maybe 00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:37.440 you're talking 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:38.159 to a spouse 00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:38.619 that's really 00:46:38.619 --> 00:46:39.500 struggling with 00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:39.799 the way they're 00:46:39.799 --> 00:46:40.319 being treated 00:46:40.319 --> 00:46:42.159 and you hear 00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:42.819 all this stuff 00:46:42.819 --> 00:46:43.719 from their perspective 00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:45.039 and that forms 00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:45.500 an opinion 00:46:45.500 --> 00:46:46.619 about the other person 00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:49.000 and then you start 00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:49.839 relating to them 00:46:49.839 --> 00:46:50.679 and the other person 00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:51.419 based on what 00:46:51.419 --> 00:46:52.459 they've told you 00:46:52.459 --> 00:46:53.799 as opposed to 00:46:53.799 --> 00:46:55.139 what really 00:46:55.139 --> 00:46:55.959 is going on. 00:46:58.139 --> 00:46:59.159 And you take up 00:46:59.159 --> 00:46:59.839 an offense 00:46:59.839 --> 00:47:01.299 and now you start 00:47:01.299 --> 00:47:02.179 to feed 00:47:02.179 --> 00:47:04.159 their struggle 00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:04.879 with that person. 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:05.439 It doesn't have to be 00:47:05.439 --> 00:47:05.980 just a marriage. 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:07.239 It can be a 00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:08.399 roommate situation. 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:09.719 It can be a work situation. 00:47:10.419 --> 00:47:11.439 We have to be careful 00:47:11.439 --> 00:47:11.919 in counseling 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:12.720 not to take up 00:47:12.720 --> 00:47:13.340 the offenses 00:47:13.340 --> 00:47:14.360 of others. 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:17.159 Another thing 00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:17.579 that can happen 00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:17.820 is 00:47:17.820 --> 00:47:19.700 at times 00:47:19.700 --> 00:47:20.500 we may become 00:47:20.500 --> 00:47:21.260 the bad guy. 00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:23.440 That'll test us 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:24.599 when 00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:25.559 suddenly 00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:26.380 we start getting 00:47:26.380 --> 00:47:27.440 blamed for things. 00:47:28.500 --> 00:47:28.780 I'm 00:47:28.780 --> 00:47:30.720 this week 00:47:30.720 --> 00:47:31.280 I'm going 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:32.240 into situations 00:47:32.240 --> 00:47:33.619 there's kind of 00:47:33.619 --> 00:47:34.619 a group of situations 00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:35.599 that are all separate 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:36.200 but they're all 00:47:36.200 --> 00:47:36.940 having this week 00:47:36.940 --> 00:47:37.159 where 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:38.920 I'm in some sense 00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:39.659 the bad guy. 00:47:40.740 --> 00:47:41.880 I'm not trying to be. 00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:43.500 And I'm hoping 00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:44.380 to avoid it 00:47:44.380 --> 00:47:45.559 but I know 00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:46.099 how things are 00:47:46.099 --> 00:47:46.680 playing out 00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:47.079 and I'm going 00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:47.700 to be the one 00:47:47.700 --> 00:47:48.599 in a situation 00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:51.019 not delivering 00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:51.720 what somebody 00:47:51.720 --> 00:47:52.099 wanted. 00:47:53.680 --> 00:47:54.400 And that's 00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:54.900 hard for me. 00:47:54.940 --> 00:47:55.340 It's really hard 00:47:55.340 --> 00:47:55.579 for me 00:47:55.579 --> 00:47:56.360 because I love 00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:57.260 approval. 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:00.579 And I've been 00:48:00.579 --> 00:48:00.900 praying 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:01.559 even this morning 00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:01.960 I was praying 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:02.760 Lord give me 00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:03.599 courage 00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:05.019 enough to be 00:48:05.019 --> 00:48:05.460 gracious 00:48:05.460 --> 00:48:06.079 and humble 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:06.800 and loving 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:08.560 but not 00:48:08.560 --> 00:48:09.580 shrink back 00:48:09.580 --> 00:48:10.860 from what 00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:11.340 I need 00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:12.019 to say 00:48:12.019 --> 00:48:15.220 in the situation. 00:48:15.700 --> 00:48:16.019 And I've got 00:48:16.019 --> 00:48:16.539 two or three 00:48:16.539 --> 00:48:16.820 of those 00:48:16.820 --> 00:48:17.740 happening this week 00:48:17.740 --> 00:48:18.140 and I'm 00:48:18.140 --> 00:48:19.720 I kind of wish 00:48:19.720 --> 00:48:20.400 I could stay here 00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:21.060 a few more days. 00:48:22.180 --> 00:48:22.760 It would be great. 00:48:23.260 --> 00:48:23.980 Tomorrow night 00:48:23.980 --> 00:48:24.560 let's come back 00:48:24.560 --> 00:48:25.340 we'll do this again. 00:48:29.060 --> 00:48:29.940 And there will be 00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:30.640 folks if you do 00:48:30.640 --> 00:48:31.400 personal ministry 00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:32.300 who feel like 00:48:32.300 --> 00:48:32.840 you're part 00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:33.579 of their problem. 00:48:34.700 --> 00:48:35.400 And that will 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:35.940 test 00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:37.420 your love. 00:48:39.780 --> 00:48:40.480 Love does not 00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:41.059 rejoice at 00:48:41.059 --> 00:48:41.539 wrongdoing 00:48:41.539 --> 00:48:42.140 but rejoices 00:48:42.140 --> 00:48:42.860 in the truth. 00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:44.440 We have to be 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:45.260 careful not to 00:48:45.260 --> 00:48:46.019 dwell on the 00:48:46.019 --> 00:48:46.620 evil in a 00:48:46.620 --> 00:48:47.240 situation 00:48:47.240 --> 00:48:48.340 the wrong 00:48:48.340 --> 00:48:49.140 in a situation 00:48:49.140 --> 00:48:49.700 we have to 00:48:49.700 --> 00:48:50.559 look for 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:51.260 what's right 00:48:51.260 --> 00:48:52.059 what's holy 00:48:52.059 --> 00:48:53.760 find what 00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:54.579 God is doing 00:48:54.579 --> 00:48:55.160 even in 00:48:55.160 --> 00:48:55.480 difficult 00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:56.120 situations 00:48:56.120 --> 00:48:56.559 look for 00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:57.240 the grace 00:48:57.240 --> 00:48:58.940 we look 00:48:58.940 --> 00:48:59.840 to trust 00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:00.300 here's a 00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:00.980 difficult one 00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:02.680 somebody who 00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:03.199 has lied 00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:03.879 to us 00:49:03.879 --> 00:49:05.359 somebody we 00:49:05.359 --> 00:49:05.960 know is not 00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:06.519 telling us 00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:06.859 the whole 00:49:06.859 --> 00:49:07.299 truth 00:49:07.299 --> 00:49:10.000 we distrust 00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:10.379 them 00:49:10.379 --> 00:49:12.299 we have to 00:49:12.299 --> 00:49:12.839 fight for 00:49:12.839 --> 00:49:13.299 trust 00:49:13.299 --> 00:49:14.179 we can't 00:49:14.179 --> 00:49:14.519 have a 00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:15.159 relationship 00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:16.219 if we don't 00:49:16.219 --> 00:49:16.919 give their 00:49:16.919 --> 00:49:17.500 words 00:49:17.500 --> 00:49:18.139 credibility 00:49:18.139 --> 00:49:19.000 if we sit 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:19.359 there the 00:49:19.359 --> 00:49:19.899 whole time 00:49:19.899 --> 00:49:20.480 and recognize 00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:20.859 they're just 00:49:20.859 --> 00:49:21.299 lying through 00:49:21.299 --> 00:49:21.819 their teeth 00:49:21.819 --> 00:49:22.839 or I feel 00:49:22.839 --> 00:49:23.059 it 00:49:23.059 --> 00:49:24.099 we can't 00:49:24.099 --> 00:49:24.619 help them 00:49:24.619 --> 00:49:26.139 so trust 00:49:26.139 --> 00:49:27.279 is something 00:49:27.279 --> 00:49:27.759 that's very 00:49:27.759 --> 00:49:28.460 important we 00:49:28.460 --> 00:49:29.039 have to work 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:29.659 on from our 00:49:29.659 --> 00:49:30.019 end 00:49:30.019 --> 00:49:32.059 ken sandy 00:49:32.059 --> 00:49:32.639 said this 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:33.039 he's a 00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:33.900 he's a 00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:34.820 counselor 00:49:34.820 --> 00:49:35.780 and a 00:49:35.780 --> 00:49:36.219 peacemaker 00:49:36.219 --> 00:49:36.699 and he said 00:49:36.699 --> 00:49:37.719 love always 00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:38.579 looks for 00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:39.780 reasonable ways 00:49:39.780 --> 00:49:40.400 to trust 00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:40.920 others 00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:42.420 to hope 00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:42.820 that they 00:49:42.820 --> 00:49:43.360 are doing 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:43.759 what is 00:49:43.759 --> 00:49:44.119 right 00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:45.159 and to 00:49:45.159 --> 00:49:45.679 interpret 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:46.420 their words 00:49:46.420 --> 00:49:47.019 and actions 00:49:47.019 --> 00:49:47.719 in a way 00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:49.400 that protects 00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:50.440 their reputation 00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:51.239 and credibility 00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:52.360 this means 00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:52.860 we have to be 00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:53.360 very careful 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:54.019 how we 00:49:54.019 --> 00:49:54.699 speak to 00:49:54.699 --> 00:49:55.259 other people 00:49:55.259 --> 00:49:55.659 about the 00:49:55.659 --> 00:49:56.059 people we're 00:49:56.059 --> 00:49:56.699 caring for 00:49:56.699 --> 00:49:58.759 doing personal 00:49:58.759 --> 00:49:59.460 ministry is 00:49:59.460 --> 00:49:59.939 you have to 00:49:59.939 --> 00:50:00.279 develop 00:50:00.279 --> 00:50:00.980 compartments 00:50:00.980 --> 00:50:01.480 for people 00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:03.839 you have to 00:50:03.839 --> 00:50:04.319 be careful 00:50:04.319 --> 00:50:05.279 what you say 00:50:05.279 --> 00:50:06.000 about other 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:06.779 people because 00:50:06.779 --> 00:50:07.279 you're going 00:50:07.279 --> 00:50:07.799 to not only 00:50:07.799 --> 00:50:08.339 slander 00:50:08.339 --> 00:50:09.659 and gossip 00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:10.739 but you may 00:50:10.739 --> 00:50:11.500 infect somebody 00:50:11.500 --> 00:50:12.059 else's view 00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:12.559 of somebody 00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:13.159 based on what 00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:13.839 you're experiencing 00:50:13.839 --> 00:50:15.279 it's very 00:50:15.279 --> 00:50:16.339 important to 00:50:16.339 --> 00:50:16.779 be careful 00:50:16.779 --> 00:50:17.219 with that 00:50:17.219 --> 00:50:19.019 and then 00:50:19.019 --> 00:50:19.619 love bears 00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:20.359 all hopes 00:50:20.359 --> 00:50:21.039 believes 00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:21.719 and endures 00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:22.259 all things 00:50:22.259 --> 00:50:23.119 that's that 00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:24.179 wonderful end 00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:26.179 that culminates 00:50:26.179 --> 00:50:26.579 in love 00:50:26.579 --> 00:50:27.279 never fails 00:50:27.279 --> 00:50:28.399 the love 00:50:28.399 --> 00:50:28.719 of God 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:30.259 is inexhaustible 00:50:30.259 --> 00:50:32.059 the promise 00:50:32.059 --> 00:50:32.659 of God 00:50:32.659 --> 00:50:33.859 is not just 00:50:33.859 --> 00:50:34.819 for the person 00:50:34.819 --> 00:50:35.519 we're seeking 00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:36.039 to love 00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:36.739 it's for us 00:50:36.739 --> 00:50:37.219 as well 00:50:37.219 --> 00:50:37.559 that's why 00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:38.659 John said 00:50:38.659 --> 00:50:39.579 in 1 John 4 00:50:39.579 --> 00:50:40.619 beloved 00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:41.559 let us love 00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:42.179 one another 00:50:42.179 --> 00:50:42.779 for love 00:50:42.779 --> 00:50:43.460 is from God 00:50:43.460 --> 00:50:43.799 it doesn't 00:50:43.799 --> 00:50:44.159 come from 00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:44.299 one 00:50:44.299 --> 00:50:44.899 it is from 00:50:44.899 --> 00:50:45.359 God 00:50:45.359 --> 00:50:46.579 and whoever 00:50:46.579 --> 00:50:47.239 loves 00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:47.719 has been 00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:48.279 born of 00:50:48.279 --> 00:50:48.679 God 00:50:48.679 --> 00:50:49.440 and knows 00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:49.779 God 00:50:49.779 --> 00:50:50.159 anyone 00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:50.599 who does 00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:51.339 not love 00:50:51.339 --> 00:50:51.919 does not 00:50:51.919 --> 00:50:52.559 know God 00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:53.960 because God 00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:54.699 is love 00:50:54.699 --> 00:50:56.179 and this 00:50:56.179 --> 00:50:57.380 and this 00:50:57.380 --> 00:50:57.880 the love 00:50:57.880 --> 00:50:58.340 of God 00:50:58.340 --> 00:50:58.720 was made 00:50:58.720 --> 00:50:59.420 manifest 00:50:59.420 --> 00:51:00.179 among us 00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:01.500 that God 00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:02.220 sent his only 00:51:02.220 --> 00:51:03.320 son into 00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:03.780 the world 00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:04.460 that we might 00:51:04.460 --> 00:51:05.240 live through 00:51:05.240 --> 00:51:05.720 him 00:51:05.720 --> 00:51:07.579 in this 00:51:07.579 --> 00:51:08.619 is love 00:51:08.619 --> 00:51:09.880 not that we 00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:10.240 have loved 00:51:10.240 --> 00:51:10.559 God 00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:11.079 but that he 00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:11.519 has loved 00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:11.900 us 00:51:11.900 --> 00:51:12.440 that's the 00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:13.019 preamble 00:51:13.019 --> 00:51:14.220 and sent 00:51:14.220 --> 00:51:15.199 his son 00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:16.400 to be the 00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:17.099 propitiation 00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:17.760 for our sins 00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:18.159 that's our 00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.579 gospel 00:51:18.579 --> 00:51:19.099 that's our 00:51:19.099 --> 00:51:19.460 gospel 00:51:19.460 --> 00:51:19.800 Lord 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:20.679 I can love 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:20.980 others 00:51:20.980 --> 00:51:21.519 because you 00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:21.960 have loved 00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:22.340 me 00:51:22.340 --> 00:51:23.599 in Christ 00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:24.019 beloved 00:51:24.019 --> 00:51:24.420 if God 00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:25.339 so loved 00:51:25.339 --> 00:51:25.759 us 00:51:25.759 --> 00:51:27.480 we also 00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:27.920 ought to 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:28.400 love one 00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:28.819 another 00:51:28.819 --> 00:51:30.199 no one 00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:30.719 has ever 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:31.739 seen God 00:51:31.739 --> 00:51:32.619 if we 00:51:32.619 --> 00:51:33.259 love one 00:51:33.259 --> 00:51:33.500 another 00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:33.880 like we 00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:34.420 just talked 00:51:34.420 --> 00:51:34.819 about 00:51:34.819 --> 00:51:35.839 God 00:51:35.839 --> 00:51:36.639 abides 00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:37.440 in us 00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:38.460 and his 00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:39.059 love 00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:40.679 is perfected 00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:40.900 in us 00:51:40.900 --> 00:51:41.480 isn't that a 00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:42.299 beautiful promise 00:51:42.299 --> 00:51:43.559 if I am 00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:44.219 seeking to 00:51:44.219 --> 00:51:44.579 make the 00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:45.299 priority 00:51:45.299 --> 00:51:45.839 how to 00:51:45.839 --> 00:51:46.500 love others 00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:47.619 God 00:51:47.619 --> 00:51:48.199 abides 00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:48.779 in me 00:51:48.779 --> 00:51:50.179 God 00:51:50.179 --> 00:51:50.559 meets 00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:50.980 me 00:51:50.980 --> 00:51:52.480 not 00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:52.840 because 00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:53.079 I'm 00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:53.179 an 00:51:53.179 --> 00:51:53.539 effective 00:51:53.539 --> 00:51:54.260 counselor 00:51:54.260 --> 00:51:55.440 but because 00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:55.860 I have 00:51:55.860 --> 00:51:56.099 allowed 00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:56.519 the love 00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:57.000 of God 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:57.300 to be 00:51:57.300 --> 00:51:57.559 shed 00:51:57.559 --> 00:51:57.900 abroad 00:51:57.900 --> 00:51:58.199 in my 00:51:58.199 --> 00:51:58.599 heart 00:51:58.599 --> 00:51:59.519 and other 00:51:59.519 --> 00:51:59.880 people 00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:00.360 simply 00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:00.920 receive 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:01.579 the benefit 00:52:01.579 --> 00:52:02.400 of what 00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:02.740 God 00:52:02.740 --> 00:52:03.280 is doing 00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:03.679 in my 00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:04.019 life 00:52:04.019 --> 00:52:07.820 Jonathan Edwards 00:52:07.820 --> 00:52:08.179 said it 00:52:08.179 --> 00:52:08.599 this way 00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:09.400 I'm going to 00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:09.780 close this 00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:10.000 session 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:10.480 with this 00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:12.119 saints 00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:12.579 too 00:52:12.579 --> 00:52:14.039 may be 00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:14.800 the instruments 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:15.599 of comforting 00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:16.599 and establishing 00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:17.340 one another 00:52:17.340 --> 00:52:19.480 one another 00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:20.160 in faith 00:52:20.160 --> 00:52:20.800 and obedience 00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:21.760 of quickening 00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:23.460 and animating 00:52:23.460 --> 00:52:24.079 edifying 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:24.720 one another 00:52:24.720 --> 00:52:25.660 of raising 00:52:25.660 --> 00:52:26.280 one another 00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:27.100 out of dull 00:52:27.100 --> 00:52:27.900 and dead 00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:28.559 frames 00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:29.539 and helping 00:52:29.539 --> 00:52:30.140 one another 00:52:30.140 --> 00:52:31.539 out of temptations 00:52:31.539 --> 00:52:32.460 and onward 00:52:32.460 --> 00:52:33.120 in the divine 00:52:33.120 --> 00:52:33.680 life 00:52:33.680 --> 00:52:35.700 of directing 00:52:35.700 --> 00:52:36.579 one another 00:52:36.579 --> 00:52:37.240 in doubtful 00:52:37.240 --> 00:52:37.720 and difficult 00:52:37.720 --> 00:52:38.280 cases 00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:39.059 of encouraging 00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:39.820 one another 00:52:39.820 --> 00:52:41.180 under darkness 00:52:41.180 --> 00:52:42.559 or trial 00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:43.440 and generally 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:43.840 and this is 00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:44.440 what I love 00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:45.760 of promoting 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:46.840 each other's 00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:48.000 spiritual joy 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:48.820 and strength 00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:50.360 and thus 00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:51.280 being mutually 00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:52.900 fellow helpers 00:52:52.900 --> 00:52:54.140 on their way 00:52:54.140 --> 00:52:54.680 to glory 00:52:54.680 --> 00:52:55.280 if you want 00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:56.340 a good definition 00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:57.500 of personal 00:52:57.500 --> 00:52:58.000 ministry 00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:59.380 it's there 00:52:59.380 --> 00:53:00.600 promoting 00:53:00.600 --> 00:53:01.320 each other's 00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:02.300 spiritual joy 00:53:02.300 --> 00:53:03.020 and strength 00:53:03.020 --> 00:53:04.520 and thus 00:53:04.520 --> 00:53:05.360 being mutually 00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:06.700 fellow helpers 00:53:06.700 --> 00:53:08.100 on their way 00:53:08.100 --> 00:53:08.600 to glory 00:53:08.600 --> 00:53:10.320 so that's 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:11.620 that's 00:53:11.620 --> 00:53:12.840 the vision 00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:13.780 for ministry 00:53:13.780 --> 00:53:14.580 if we lose 00:53:14.580 --> 00:53:15.020 that 00:53:15.019 --> 00:53:15.759 we are not 00:53:15.759 --> 00:53:16.619 doing God's 00:53:16.619 --> 00:53:16.800 will 00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:17.519 we are doing 00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:18.659 our will 00:53:18.659 --> 00:53:19.900 so any questions 00:53:19.900 --> 00:53:20.500 in application 00:53:20.500 --> 00:53:21.759 or situations 00:53:21.759 --> 00:53:22.739 where you might 00:53:22.739 --> 00:53:23.119 think 00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:24.019 it'd be good 00:53:24.019 --> 00:53:24.539 just to dialogue 00:53:24.539 --> 00:53:25.340 a little bit 00:53:25.340 --> 00:53:31.239 okay 00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:41.480 yeah 00:53:41.480 --> 00:54:11.460 yeah 00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:12.860 Yeah. 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:19.619 Uh-huh. 00:54:20.380 --> 00:54:21.460 Yeah, yeah. 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:25.539 So the question is, I'm talking to someone who doesn't profess Christ. 00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:27.099 I'm presuming they're an unbeliever. 00:54:27.659 --> 00:54:34.679 And they're looking for something that fits their understanding of how change should happen apart from God 00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:36.320 because they're not dealing with that. 00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:40.300 So what you're dealing with is what point does counseling become evangelism? 00:54:40.300 --> 00:54:41.500 Right? 00:54:42.340 --> 00:54:49.600 And one of the things I love is we don't draw hard, fast lines between counseling and evangelism. 00:54:50.900 --> 00:54:55.240 Evangelism is the counseling of the unbeliever toward Christ. 00:54:56.120 --> 00:55:00.440 Counseling is the evangelism of the believer toward Christ. 00:55:01.500 --> 00:55:03.580 We're always heading the same direction. 00:55:03.580 --> 00:55:09.840 If my brother is struggling, they're probably looking for practical answers as well. 00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:16.100 So the great thing about it is you don't have to have massively different approaches to deal with believers or unbelievers. 00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:19.320 You're the essential character in there. 00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:22.360 You're just being who you are and allowing God to work. 00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:27.960 So we'll talk in the next section about the power of I don't know. 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:37.900 I don't know how to help you with that is a huge way to help people who are looking for those answers. 00:55:37.900 --> 00:55:47.139 And then you can say, well, you know, what I would practically do is just help somebody unpack what they're asking for. 00:55:47.139 --> 00:55:55.219 What you'll find is many people who are their initial thing of what they're asking for is a fairly shallow understanding of what's needed. 00:55:55.719 --> 00:56:05.980 Even in a therapeutic sense, you know, a good counselor is never going to accept the person's problem description as what I need to address. 00:56:06.059 --> 00:56:07.299 That's the presenting issue. 00:56:07.300 --> 00:56:14.900 So you have a presenting issue in a therapeutic approach, but you're looking for what the underlying issues are. 00:56:15.500 --> 00:56:16.160 And so it's okay. 00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:21.180 One of the things I do is I'm okay giving some practical advice to people. 00:56:22.240 --> 00:56:24.420 You know, I'm okay saying, well, have you tried this? 00:56:24.420 --> 00:56:31.099 Not because I'm asking them to trust it, but because it tells me a lot. 00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:39.200 If I say, so by a situation where, let's say, I'm speculating into your world. 00:56:39.980 --> 00:56:40.940 You know, I've got a friend. 00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:42.019 She's an unbeliever. 00:56:45.619 --> 00:56:46.139 Her... 00:56:46.139 --> 00:56:47.059 Yeah. 00:56:47.059 --> 00:56:47.240 Yeah. 00:56:47.239 --> 00:56:58.699 Um, and she's in a relationship that is creating problems for her, but she, so she wants to fix the relationship to make it work right. 00:56:59.339 --> 00:57:02.239 And she's asking you, how can I help fix the relationship? 00:57:02.399 --> 00:57:04.119 And you're going, dump the dude. 00:57:04.779 --> 00:57:09.939 Um, so, uh, but you can't say that because that'll just turn her off. 00:57:09.940 --> 00:57:18.240 And so you might say something like, well, have you tried, and, you know, fill in the blank. 00:57:18.360 --> 00:57:27.900 Have you tried sitting down and saying, listen, let's talk about where our relationship is going, which freaks a lot of those guys out. 00:57:28.720 --> 00:57:31.519 Um, no, I never tried that. 00:57:31.579 --> 00:57:32.200 I'm afraid to. 00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:33.240 I'm afraid he might leave. 00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:34.420 Well, try it. 00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:37.559 If she doesn't try it, what do you have there? 00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:41.880 You have a wonderful saying, well, you know, I think I suggested something you didn't seem like it would work. 00:57:42.099 --> 00:57:43.519 What do you think you should do? 00:57:44.840 --> 00:57:46.679 You know, tell me what you think you should do. 00:57:47.279 --> 00:57:48.840 I don't know what I should do, so I'm asking you. 00:57:49.059 --> 00:57:54.059 Well, you know, but I gave an option, and you didn't seem to like that one, so let's try something you want to do. 00:57:55.159 --> 00:57:58.860 And then you slowly exhaust the practical solutions. 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:01.759 Well, it looks like nothing's working. 00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:04.779 Are you happy? 00:58:05.820 --> 00:58:06.099 You know? 00:58:06.099 --> 00:58:08.579 And then you can start dealing with questions, well, are you happy? 00:58:09.759 --> 00:58:12.339 Is, you know, is this, does the relationship make you happy? 00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:14.579 How do you define what you want in a relationship? 00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:19.819 So, I mean, I'm going way into a totally, like, one that doesn't exist. 00:58:20.279 --> 00:58:28.639 But what you're doing there is you're connecting with people at their point of felt need, but you're not letting them keep you there. 00:58:29.279 --> 00:58:31.199 You've always got a better agenda. 00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:36.659 And eventually I'm going to help them see that what you really want is far deeper than what you think. 00:58:37.439 --> 00:58:43.279 And that's where you have to have that vision, Lord, help me to love them, because you have an agenda for them that's not mine and not theirs. 00:58:44.339 --> 00:58:45.239 So, is that helpful? 00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:46.519 Yeah. 00:58:46.519 --> 00:58:49.440 I don't know who that person is, but I'm assuming they don't exist. 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:52.440 Yeah. 00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:53.000 Yeah. 00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:53.639 Yeah. 00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:11.260 Yeah. 00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:12.280 How do we prevent burnout? 00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:23.340 Now, where I can tell is when I'm not sleeping well. 00:59:24.780 --> 00:59:29.740 If things are on my mind and I'm not sleeping well, then I realize, okay, I'm in too deep. 00:59:30.720 --> 00:59:30.920 Right? 00:59:31.340 --> 00:59:37.540 Now I'm carrying their problem into my sleep, which seems like Jesus says, don't do that. 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:38.260 Right? 00:59:38.260 --> 00:59:41.180 So, it starts to become an issue for me of repentance. 00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:44.200 Lord, I can't help them. 00:59:44.680 --> 00:59:45.700 You're the burden bearer. 00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:46.180 I'm not. 00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:47.240 I mean, we're going to talk about burden bearing. 00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:56.920 But, so I think when it comes to that, different people have different thresholds of when it's too much. 00:59:56.980 --> 01:00:03.120 Sometimes it's good to have people around you know what it looks like for you if you're carrying it too heavily. 01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:08.259 I think it's good to have diversions. 01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:11.859 You know, rest and diversions are very helpful. 01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:13.119 So, how do I rest? 01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:17.099 How do I Sabbath myself from all of this? 01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:22.000 God is the only 24-7 being in the universe. 01:00:22.219 --> 01:00:22.659 I'm not. 01:00:23.719 --> 01:00:25.239 And then how do I divert myself? 01:00:25.359 --> 01:00:26.559 What do I find enjoyable? 01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:32.820 How do I reclaim who I am when a situation seems to be one of taking that over? 01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:37.340 So, like I don't suggest, okay, let me go read some more counseling literature. 01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:37.840 No. 01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:40.739 You know, I would say Harry Potter. 01:00:40.940 --> 01:00:45.340 I don't, something that takes you out of it. 01:00:46.019 --> 01:00:50.619 A movie, music, art, whatever. 01:00:51.219 --> 01:00:55.460 So that you can just, because you're not doing, you're not going to, we're not going to help each other by stressing out. 01:00:55.460 --> 01:00:57.079 We're not going to help anybody by stressing out. 01:00:57.900 --> 01:01:00.539 And most likely that person doesn't want you to stress out. 01:01:01.300 --> 01:01:06.400 And what I found is sometimes my stressing out is my way of validating how much I care. 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:09.260 And I have to own that. 01:01:10.240 --> 01:01:13.300 So, people are different, but I think it's an important one. 01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:15.199 If you feel like you're burning out. 01:01:15.780 --> 01:01:19.679 Burning out typically is when we're carrying a weight that God doesn't want us to carry. 01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:26.679 Or we've let somebody else define the way we're helping them in a way that we're following their agenda. 01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:29.379 And we're not at liberty to follow God's agenda. 01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:35.279 So, sometimes, I'll just go ahead and do my texting thing now. 01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:37.980 Don't ever counsel with texting. 01:01:38.659 --> 01:01:40.139 That's my general policy. 01:01:41.539 --> 01:01:42.139 I'll say it again. 01:01:42.139 --> 01:01:46.279 Don't ever counsel with texting. 01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:51.039 That is anathema in this day and age. 01:01:51.799 --> 01:01:54.119 But I have never seen it go well. 01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:04.219 Texting is flat communication that allows other people to interpret your intent based on a limited amount of communication. 01:02:04.219 --> 01:02:15.039 And it leaves you vulnerable to quick, unconsidered responses as opposed to thoughtful engagement. 01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:19.199 Texting itself is a terrible counseling tool. 01:02:19.419 --> 01:02:20.619 I tell pastors this all the time. 01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:21.359 I'm watching guys. 01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:22.119 I'm thinking, are you counseling? 01:02:22.459 --> 01:02:22.799 Stop. 01:02:24.019 --> 01:02:25.359 You know, you're not going to help that person. 01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:26.279 And guess what happens? 01:02:26.359 --> 01:02:31.399 Once you start responding to them, now you're on the hook for their pace of texting. 01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:38.900 So, when and however, this is a generational thing. 01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:40.139 I know. 01:02:40.340 --> 01:02:41.740 So, I'm going to act like an old person. 01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:51.820 If you are used to talking about complicating things with your thumbs, I would suggest another way. 01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:56.639 Number one, I would suggest if someone texts you with an open-ended problem, 01:02:56.639 --> 01:03:01.679 you don't have to respond at all. 01:03:03.699 --> 01:03:08.859 Just because we live in a culture where people text you assuming you're going to respond. 01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:09.480 What are they doing? 01:03:09.539 --> 01:03:10.759 They're taking control of your life. 01:03:10.839 --> 01:03:14.619 They're reaching into your life and they're saying, right now, I own it. 01:03:15.359 --> 01:03:16.779 And we give in to that. 01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:18.299 So, I'm not saying don't respond. 01:03:18.579 --> 01:03:21.239 But I'm saying you set the pace for a response. 01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:25.479 If you have somebody who tends to want to open their problems up through texting, 01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:27.959 then you set the direction of that. 01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:32.779 So, one of the ways you can do it is someone says, you know, I'm terrible right now. 01:03:34.319 --> 01:03:35.439 I need to talk. 01:03:38.939 --> 01:03:42.939 If you're going to text back, say, when would be a good time? 01:03:42.940 --> 01:03:45.900 I want to talk right now. 01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:48.539 Well, I can't talk right now. 01:03:49.500 --> 01:03:50.599 What about tonight? 01:03:51.179 --> 01:03:51.820 What are you trying to do? 01:03:51.860 --> 01:03:53.940 You're trying to figure out whether there's... 01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:55.780 Another way of looking at it like this. 01:03:56.139 --> 01:04:01.000 There are emergencies, there are crises, and there are problems. 01:04:02.360 --> 01:04:07.220 An emergency requires 911 or a trip to the hospital. 01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:09.200 That's an emergency. 01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:18.119 A crisis is something that somebody is in that you want to be as responsive as possible to them. 01:04:18.939 --> 01:04:22.039 A problem is just something that exists that you'll engage in. 01:04:22.599 --> 01:04:26.980 Everybody wants to make their problems into crises and their crises into emergencies. 01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:32.939 What we're trying to do is make sure we only deal with emergencies as emergencies. 01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:35.859 Crises as crises and problems as problems. 01:04:35.860 --> 01:04:40.260 Just because somebody feels their problem is a crisis doesn't mean it is. 01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:42.260 So it takes knowing that person. 01:04:42.380 --> 01:04:46.680 And if all we're doing is responding to them on text, we're not getting to know them. 01:04:47.240 --> 01:04:52.940 We're letting them dictate by texting how we should understand their problems. 01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:56.820 So I'm saying it in kind of a categorical way. 01:04:56.820 --> 01:05:02.019 And I know that, you know, relationally it can break you away from people. 01:05:02.120 --> 01:05:09.180 But I do recommend that you take control over the texting mechanism that you use. 01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:11.700 And you choose to use it. 01:05:11.720 --> 01:05:16.840 Like I choose to use my office when I let somebody into my office and when I don't. 01:05:16.940 --> 01:05:20.080 Because when they're in my office, I'm all there for them. 01:05:20.079 --> 01:05:27.340 And if you're going to let them into your texting environment in that moment, then you need to be all in it. 01:05:28.139 --> 01:05:29.900 And not trying to manage them through it. 01:05:30.460 --> 01:05:34.159 And that's what I find a lot of people trying to manage people's problems through texting. 01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:36.139 Not actually help them resolve them. 01:05:36.679 --> 01:05:37.840 Any questions about that? 01:05:37.900 --> 01:05:39.579 That's a pretty categorical statement. 01:05:39.819 --> 01:05:41.840 And it's an old person statement. 01:05:42.739 --> 01:05:42.940 Yeah. 01:05:42.940 --> 01:05:54.139 Yeah. 01:05:54.139 --> 01:05:54.200 Yeah. 01:05:58.820 --> 01:05:59.260 Yeah. 01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:01.800 Yeah. 01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:05.800 Yeah. 01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:09.679 Yeah. 01:06:10.099 --> 01:06:11.179 I think it's wonderful. 01:06:11.179 --> 01:06:13.379 I mean, the question is, what about sending a Bible passage? 01:06:13.480 --> 01:06:16.239 I think it's wonderful, but how is it contextualized? 01:06:17.339 --> 01:06:20.759 You know, is it just some verse came to your mind you just throw at them? 01:06:21.319 --> 01:06:22.419 I'm not saying that's what you do. 01:06:23.099 --> 01:06:30.139 But if they get a Bible verse in response to their question, are they going to say, well, he's blowing me off. 01:06:30.759 --> 01:06:32.399 What are most of them to do is say the Bible doesn't work? 01:06:33.480 --> 01:06:33.799 No. 01:06:33.899 --> 01:06:36.559 Now he's just kind of put me in my place. 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:43.619 Or are you saying, listen, man, I really, you know, I've been thinking about what you just said. 01:06:43.719 --> 01:06:44.679 I prayed about it. 01:06:44.940 --> 01:06:46.759 I'm going to offer you a text. 01:06:46.860 --> 01:06:51.400 I'm not saying it necessarily fits you, but it seemed to be relevant for me. 01:06:51.619 --> 01:06:56.440 Can I share it with you and you can let me know whether it's helpful or not? 01:06:57.380 --> 01:06:59.500 You know, we have to contextualize things. 01:06:59.500 --> 01:07:01.880 Otherwise, we're just throwing Bible verses at people. 01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:04.840 So there's ways to do it. 01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:11.139 Or one powerful way is if you've been interacting with someone and you know they're struggling 01:07:11.139 --> 01:07:18.219 and you are praying for them and God brings a verse to mind and out of the blue, unprovoked, 01:07:18.500 --> 01:07:23.460 you say, and I do this a good bit, was just praying about you today, praying for you today, 01:07:23.599 --> 01:07:24.820 and this text came to mind. 01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:26.059 Just want to encourage you with it. 01:07:26.059 --> 01:07:32.719 It should not be a thou shalt not kind of text, but what can encourage and edify somebody? 01:07:32.840 --> 01:07:38.019 That can be powerful, and that can set a ministry relationship up in a wonderful way 01:07:38.019 --> 01:07:39.960 because they recognize you're going to be a Bible person. 01:07:40.900 --> 01:07:44.239 But we want to be careful not, I don't want to get into it, so I'm just going to send them 01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:48.179 a Bible verse, which is not what you're saying, but it's something we have to be careful with. 01:07:49.340 --> 01:07:50.500 So, good. 01:07:50.539 --> 01:07:51.059 Other questions? 01:07:51.699 --> 01:07:52.039 Yeah, come on. 01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:52.159 Yeah. 01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:02.320 Yeah. 01:08:02.900 --> 01:08:03.199 Yeah. 01:08:04.179 --> 01:08:05.539 How do I cope with being a bad guy? 01:08:06.519 --> 01:08:07.679 Well, here's what I do. 01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:09.599 I hug everybody. 01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:15.819 So, if I know I'm the bad guy, if I had a counseling appointment with somebody and it didn't go well 01:08:15.819 --> 01:08:19.380 on Saturday, on Sunday, they're getting a hug. 01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:22.920 And I'm going to force them to push me away. 01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:26.420 Because if I'm going to be the bad guy, you're going to have to show me. 01:08:27.399 --> 01:08:31.479 Because sometimes you can just realize they're not, and ultimately they're not, they're not, 01:08:31.479 --> 01:08:37.459 they're not necessarily unhappy with you unless you did something that was angry or sinful. 01:08:38.119 --> 01:08:41.419 They're unhappy with the result of the experience. 01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:46.359 And they don't necessarily want to attach it to you, but it does that because they are 01:08:46.359 --> 01:08:46.639 struggling. 01:08:46.639 --> 01:08:49.199 So, I think I've learned that most people aren't. 01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:57.479 My friend JT and I do a podcast and we did one on friendship. 01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:01.800 And he's 30 years old and I'm 62. 01:09:02.300 --> 01:09:07.779 And so, part of it's just how people relate over, and he's black and I'm white, so it's 01:09:07.779 --> 01:09:11.319 how we relate over race issues and how we relate over generational issues. 01:09:11.319 --> 01:09:17.920 So, we did one on friendship, and I said, you know, so how do you define friendship? 01:09:18.779 --> 01:09:25.779 And he went into this really eloquent sort of description of shared life and all that 01:09:25.779 --> 01:09:27.139 kind of stuff, and it was beautiful. 01:09:27.599 --> 01:09:28.759 So, he said, how do you define friendship? 01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:34.199 And I said, I think I define friendship as anybody who would make an effort to attend my 01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:34.599 funeral. 01:09:35.719 --> 01:09:36.719 Those are my friends. 01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:41.159 You know, if you would get up and get dressed and come to my funeral, you'd probably like 01:09:41.159 --> 01:09:41.380 me. 01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:44.480 And so, that's how I do it. 01:09:44.560 --> 01:09:48.020 I said, okay, this person isn't happy with me, but yeah, I think they'd still come to 01:09:48.020 --> 01:09:48.420 my funeral. 01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:52.840 If they're not going to come to my funeral, then I want to go and resolve it so they'll 01:09:52.840 --> 01:09:55.420 come at some point in the future when I die. 01:09:56.280 --> 01:09:59.260 But, so I think that we do, we recognize, yeah, it's not about me. 01:09:59.840 --> 01:10:01.420 Sometimes it's about, I'm just a messenger. 01:10:02.100 --> 01:10:04.100 I'm just part of the problem they're dealing with. 01:10:04.420 --> 01:10:05.320 So, don't take it personal. 01:10:06.460 --> 01:10:06.560 Yeah. 01:10:06.720 --> 01:10:08.820 Yeah. 01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:13.560 Yeah. 01:10:15.039 --> 01:10:16.840 Yeah. 01:10:23.320 --> 01:10:23.740 Yeah. 01:10:30.820 --> 01:10:31.220 Yeah. 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:35.320 Yeah. 01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:36.260 Yeah. 01:10:36.460 --> 01:10:36.500 Yeah. 01:10:36.500 --> 01:10:57.300 Yeah. Well, yeah, how do we say no? Again, over years I've learned me saying no is my moral authority spoken into their lives. I don't know if my moral authority, even as a pastor, should have that kind of weight. 01:10:57.300 --> 01:11:12.300 That's conscience-binding weight. What I want to do is if I see somebody where they're clearly disobeying something in the Word of God, I want to open up the Bible and I want to say, so listen, let's just talk about this. 01:11:12.640 --> 01:11:17.860 You're saying you're doing this. The Bible says this. How do you reconcile them both? 01:11:17.859 --> 01:11:36.679 So I don't do a lot of don't do's. I do a lot of knock yourself out. It ain't going to work. What are you really after? It seems like your method isn't matching up with what you say you want. 01:11:36.679 --> 01:11:42.359 I want to glorify God, but I want to have this relationship this way. I think they're going two different directions. 01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:52.779 A good way to understand it is there's far more folly than there is direct disobedience in most people's lives. 01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:59.880 Folly is just stupidity and foolishness, not actually acting on what you know to be true. 01:12:00.899 --> 01:12:04.539 There are some people who are rebellious. There's some people who, and you'll know that. 01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:12.159 I've sat with people who, when I opened up the Bible, I said, well, it seems like this, but you have committed to doing this. 01:12:12.359 --> 01:12:19.199 And I've watched their face hardening, and they will say, I don't care what the Bible says. 01:12:20.899 --> 01:12:22.880 Once we get there, we're in a different category. 01:12:24.099 --> 01:12:26.979 Then my conversation is not stop. 01:12:27.679 --> 01:12:33.639 Then my conversation is more so tell me on what basis you have assurance in Christ. 01:12:34.899 --> 01:12:37.559 I can't question their salvation. 01:12:37.560 --> 01:12:41.260 But the Bible gives me warrant to question their assurance. 01:12:41.480 --> 01:12:46.880 You have confidence that you're a Christian even though you're living a life in opposition. 01:12:47.280 --> 01:12:49.240 That's what Matthew 18 ultimately drives to. 01:12:50.300 --> 01:12:51.760 So we want to be very careful. 01:12:51.880 --> 01:13:01.340 I think Christians can too often use their own moral authority or confidence that they know what particular command is relevant to that person 01:13:01.340 --> 01:13:09.880 and use that conversationally as opposed to having the word come into play and saying, well, let's talk about what's here. 01:13:10.779 --> 01:13:14.319 That's one way I'll use the Bible is I think this is fairly clear. 01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:16.220 How do you relate to that? 01:13:17.300 --> 01:13:18.100 So, yeah. 01:13:18.100 --> 01:13:22.520 Yeah. 01:13:36.360 --> 01:13:39.340 Yeah. 01:13:44.120 --> 01:13:44.360 Yeah. 01:13:44.360 --> 01:13:45.039 Yeah. 01:13:48.100 --> 01:13:50.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:13:50.740 --> 01:13:52.620 So you're talking particularly personal problems, 01:13:52.700 --> 01:13:55.280 not like, you know, you need your car fixed or things like that. 01:13:56.120 --> 01:13:58.020 Ministry, okay, yeah, yeah. 01:13:58.660 --> 01:14:02.520 So what do you deal with when you feel like you see the problem 01:14:02.520 --> 01:14:03.420 and it needs to be resolved? 01:14:05.740 --> 01:14:09.280 Do unto others as you would have them do unto you 01:14:09.280 --> 01:14:11.079 is a good rule to follow. 01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:12.200 That's in the Bible somewhere. 01:14:14.039 --> 01:14:15.539 Do you want to be treated like that? 01:14:16.380 --> 01:14:17.739 Do you want to be treated like, 01:14:17.899 --> 01:14:19.699 oh, I need to get you to fix your problem? 01:14:20.319 --> 01:14:23.420 Because what that's communicating is you're bothering me. 01:14:24.460 --> 01:14:26.680 Your life is bothering me right now. 01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:29.319 It's complicating my life and you need to fix it 01:14:29.319 --> 01:14:31.619 as opposed to I care about you. 01:14:32.899 --> 01:14:35.560 Now, there'll be situations where you realize 01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:38.260 I get thrown into something and there's a whole big mess here 01:14:38.260 --> 01:14:39.579 and I've got to help sort it out. 01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:41.239 But still I have found, 01:14:41.300 --> 01:14:42.859 and we'll talk about it in this next session, 01:14:42.859 --> 01:14:48.939 the patience to say I need to let the problem come to me 01:14:48.939 --> 01:14:51.559 in a way that I can relate to it 01:14:51.559 --> 01:14:55.019 in a way that they say you get it 01:14:55.019 --> 01:14:58.659 is how I'm going to do really effective ministry. 01:14:59.139 --> 01:15:00.059 Because at the end of the day, 01:15:00.099 --> 01:15:01.559 I'm not responsible for their change. 01:15:01.619 --> 01:15:03.259 I'm responsible for my participation. 01:15:04.259 --> 01:15:05.880 That's what I've got to keep my focus on. 01:15:06.579 --> 01:15:08.799 And that should help me when I'm thinking, 01:15:08.979 --> 01:15:09.839 oh, I've got to fix that. 01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:11.260 I've got to change that. 01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:14.520 Because, first of all, who says you're the one 01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:16.039 that God wants to do it? 01:15:16.140 --> 01:15:19.560 And second of all, who says you know how it can be changed? 01:15:19.720 --> 01:15:20.420 And you just end up... 01:15:20.420 --> 01:15:21.659 We tend to use pressure. 01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:24.100 If you have a high-performance church, 01:15:25.279 --> 01:15:27.039 pressure becomes... 01:15:27.039 --> 01:15:28.619 Because you probably, many of you, 01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:30.279 are used to living under pressure 01:15:30.279 --> 01:15:31.819 in the way you work in school. 01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:35.159 Ministry is diametrically opposite of that. 01:15:35.220 --> 01:15:36.779 It's a non-pressure situation. 01:15:37.039 --> 01:15:38.119 It's a non-pressure environment. 01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:39.760 It's a pressure relief. 01:15:40.420 --> 01:15:43.279 It's a grace-replacing pressure orientation. 01:15:44.359 --> 01:15:46.720 And so you do have to sort of leave a lot of that at the door 01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:47.739 when you're doing it. 01:15:47.979 --> 01:15:49.279 Let's take a quick break, 01:15:49.340 --> 01:15:50.599 and then we'll jump into the second session. 01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:53.619 And we'll finish up with the other questions after that. 01:15:53.800 --> 01:15:54.500 So thank you guys. 01:15:54.599 --> 01:15:55.380 Wonderful thoughts. 01:15:56.019 --> 01:15:57.519 And we'll take about maybe a five-minute break. 01:16:02.119 --> 01:16:03.599 Okay, we're going to get started again. 01:16:03.720 --> 01:16:05.800 Just want to make sure you guys get out of here at a good time. 01:16:05.800 --> 01:16:15.380 Again, the outline, if you don't have it, 01:16:15.579 --> 01:16:16.779 is back in the back there. 01:16:24.779 --> 01:16:26.239 So what we... 01:16:26.239 --> 01:16:28.940 First session is sort of a vision. 01:16:29.180 --> 01:16:31.840 It's how do I think about 01:16:31.840 --> 01:16:34.900 why I'm doing what I'm doing. 01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:36.779 And this session is going to be more... 01:16:36.779 --> 01:16:37.960 geared a bit more toward 01:16:37.960 --> 01:16:41.020 how do I actually do what I'm trying to do? 01:16:41.220 --> 01:16:42.860 What are ways I can do this? 01:16:44.460 --> 01:16:47.960 And so we're going to go to Galatians chapter 5 01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:50.060 and beginning in verses 25. 01:16:50.619 --> 01:16:52.400 And we're going to go into chapter 6 here. 01:16:52.399 --> 01:16:53.779 And so Paul writes, 01:16:53.779 --> 01:16:56.139 If we live by the Spirit, 01:16:56.299 --> 01:16:58.199 let us also walk by the Spirit. 01:16:59.099 --> 01:17:00.719 Let us not become conceited, 01:17:00.899 --> 01:17:02.059 provoking one another, 01:17:02.359 --> 01:17:03.159 envying one another. 01:17:03.219 --> 01:17:04.359 Interestingly, he's pulling language 01:17:04.359 --> 01:17:06.119 from 1 Corinthians 13 there. 01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:08.500 At least it's common language. 01:17:09.219 --> 01:17:11.979 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, 01:17:12.219 --> 01:17:14.399 you who are spiritual should restore him 01:17:14.399 --> 01:17:16.159 in a spirit of gentleness. 01:17:17.319 --> 01:17:19.019 Keep watch on yourself, 01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:20.519 lest you too be tempted. 01:17:20.520 --> 01:17:22.980 Bear one another's burdens 01:17:22.980 --> 01:17:25.300 and so fulfill the law of Christ. 01:17:26.360 --> 01:17:28.180 For if anyone thinks he is something 01:17:28.180 --> 01:17:29.380 when he is nothing, 01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:30.800 he deceives himself. 01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:35.100 But let each one test his own work 01:17:35.100 --> 01:17:39.500 and then his reason to boast 01:17:39.500 --> 01:17:41.140 will be in himself alone 01:17:41.140 --> 01:17:42.720 and not in his neighbor. 01:17:43.280 --> 01:17:46.000 For each one will have to bear his own burden, 01:17:46.700 --> 01:17:48.000 his own load. 01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:50.279 A key point in this section is 01:17:50.279 --> 01:17:51.579 loving personal ministry 01:17:51.579 --> 01:17:55.859 is expressed in how we bear one another's burdens. 01:17:56.060 --> 01:18:00.100 That's the imagery that Paul is driving at here. 01:18:00.479 --> 01:18:01.699 And we'll see how we get there. 01:18:02.020 --> 01:18:03.720 In verses 25 and 26, 01:18:04.779 --> 01:18:08.260 that's a summary of the previous parts 01:18:08.260 --> 01:18:13.220 of the end of chapter 4 and end of chapter 5 01:18:13.220 --> 01:18:14.720 on life in the Spirit. 01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:15.980 What it means to be free. 01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:18.199 What it means to be free in the Spirit. 01:18:18.780 --> 01:18:20.199 What it means to be a Christian. 01:18:20.699 --> 01:18:22.119 And Paul summarizes it 01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:23.920 in verses 25 and 26 01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:26.199 that we're set free from sin 01:18:26.199 --> 01:18:28.600 and called to live by the Spirit, 01:18:28.740 --> 01:18:30.579 to walk by the Spirit. 01:18:32.240 --> 01:18:33.760 There are ways we can live, 01:18:33.860 --> 01:18:35.480 and he says this in verse 26, 01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:37.680 that are unspiritual. 01:18:37.680 --> 01:18:41.360 And he uses things like 01:18:41.360 --> 01:18:42.940 provoking one another, 01:18:43.100 --> 01:18:43.940 envying one another, 01:18:44.420 --> 01:18:45.560 and being conceited. 01:18:45.640 --> 01:18:46.440 Some of the things that 01:18:46.440 --> 01:18:48.579 we were concerned about in the past, 01:18:49.039 --> 01:18:50.300 in the previous session. 01:18:50.640 --> 01:18:52.560 How we can try to counsel one another. 01:18:57.960 --> 01:18:59.100 But then, 01:18:59.460 --> 01:19:01.940 if we pretend like that chapter break isn't there, 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:02.320 in other words, 01:19:02.380 --> 01:19:03.900 we don't move into chapter 6, 01:19:03.899 --> 01:19:04.399 but actually, 01:19:04.759 --> 01:19:06.399 it's the same thought continuing, 01:19:07.059 --> 01:19:08.559 which is really what's going on. 01:19:08.939 --> 01:19:10.159 We see the contrast 01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:12.259 between walking in the flesh 01:19:12.259 --> 01:19:15.139 and how that affects relationships 01:19:15.139 --> 01:19:18.420 and walking by the Spirit, 01:19:20.439 --> 01:19:21.699 which is inherently 01:19:21.699 --> 01:19:24.379 not self-centered 01:19:24.379 --> 01:19:25.759 and not self-protective 01:19:25.759 --> 01:19:27.259 and not self-exalting 01:19:27.259 --> 01:19:31.059 and is instinctively 01:19:31.059 --> 01:19:31.799 others' focus. 01:19:31.960 --> 01:19:33.019 You see what Paul's doing there. 01:19:33.020 --> 01:19:33.460 He's saying, 01:19:33.860 --> 01:19:35.000 if you walk by the flesh 01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:36.180 as it relates to others, 01:19:36.280 --> 01:19:37.160 it will look like this. 01:19:37.420 --> 01:19:38.700 If you walk by the Spirit, 01:19:39.020 --> 01:19:42.500 beginning in verse 1 in chapter 6, 01:19:42.660 --> 01:19:43.840 it will look like this. 01:19:43.880 --> 01:19:44.960 And he begins with brothers. 01:19:45.140 --> 01:19:46.460 That includes us all. 01:19:46.520 --> 01:19:48.760 That means this is not for the gifted. 01:19:48.900 --> 01:19:50.040 It's not for the mature. 01:19:50.180 --> 01:19:51.700 It's for all of us. 01:19:52.580 --> 01:19:53.320 Paul lets us know 01:19:53.320 --> 01:19:55.000 that this Spirit-led, 01:19:55.180 --> 01:19:56.020 other-centered life 01:19:56.540 --> 01:19:58.020 that we're meant to live in 01:19:58.020 --> 01:20:00.780 is meant to be a family trait. 01:20:00.779 --> 01:20:02.559 It's meant to characterize 01:20:02.559 --> 01:20:04.019 the family of God. 01:20:04.460 --> 01:20:05.779 It's not a gift of the Spirit 01:20:05.779 --> 01:20:07.819 to some to exercise. 01:20:08.279 --> 01:20:09.819 It's the fruit of the Spirit 01:20:09.819 --> 01:20:12.300 that marks us as a family. 01:20:12.460 --> 01:20:13.659 So as a family 01:20:13.659 --> 01:20:15.340 represented here 01:20:15.340 --> 01:20:16.739 in Trinity Cambridge, 01:20:16.739 --> 01:20:18.519 you want to have 01:20:18.519 --> 01:20:19.699 these things functioning. 01:20:19.819 --> 01:20:20.679 That's when we talk about 01:20:20.679 --> 01:20:21.460 personal ministry. 01:20:21.759 --> 01:20:22.559 We don't talk about 01:20:22.559 --> 01:20:23.859 a ministry of counseling, 01:20:24.259 --> 01:20:25.319 although you can have that. 01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:26.259 We don't talk about 01:20:26.259 --> 01:20:27.319 who are the counselors 01:20:27.319 --> 01:20:27.920 in the church. 01:20:28.079 --> 01:20:29.779 No, we're all counselors. 01:20:30.420 --> 01:20:31.679 We're all doing 01:20:31.679 --> 01:20:32.579 personal ministry. 01:20:33.039 --> 01:20:34.159 It's who we are 01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:36.340 and how we function 01:20:36.340 --> 01:20:37.239 toward one another. 01:20:42.199 --> 01:20:43.479 It's an impulse 01:20:43.479 --> 01:20:44.439 toward mercy 01:20:44.439 --> 01:20:45.420 and redemption 01:20:45.420 --> 01:20:46.500 and gentleness 01:20:46.500 --> 01:20:47.559 and humility. 01:20:48.859 --> 01:20:49.519 Paul says, 01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:51.259 lest you be tempted. 01:20:51.260 --> 01:20:52.239 He's concerned 01:20:52.239 --> 01:20:55.140 that you and I 01:20:55.140 --> 01:20:56.100 who attempt to 01:20:56.100 --> 01:20:57.520 live out this 01:20:57.520 --> 01:20:58.940 can be tempted ourselves. 01:20:59.100 --> 01:21:00.659 There's no spiritual hierarchy. 01:21:00.780 --> 01:21:02.520 We don't get beyond temptation. 01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:03.420 One of the things 01:21:03.420 --> 01:21:04.199 we talked about here 01:21:04.199 --> 01:21:05.860 is how we can be tempted 01:21:05.860 --> 01:21:06.840 by other people 01:21:06.840 --> 01:21:08.400 when doing ministry. 01:21:08.539 --> 01:21:09.260 We can be tempted 01:21:09.260 --> 01:21:10.640 in that experience. 01:21:12.340 --> 01:21:13.920 We're all prone to wander. 01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:16.579 All susceptible to temptation. 01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:18.520 We need each other. 01:21:18.579 --> 01:21:19.860 As Paul Tripp has once said, 01:21:19.859 --> 01:21:21.239 we are people 01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:23.359 in need of change 01:21:23.359 --> 01:21:24.799 helping people 01:21:24.799 --> 01:21:26.079 in need of change. 01:21:26.839 --> 01:21:27.899 That's what we are. 01:21:29.019 --> 01:21:30.439 The operative principle here 01:21:30.439 --> 01:21:31.420 is in verse 2. 01:21:31.899 --> 01:21:33.359 Bear one another's burdens 01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:34.819 and so fulfill 01:21:34.819 --> 01:21:36.380 the law of Christ. 01:21:37.399 --> 01:21:38.759 So what is the burden 01:21:38.759 --> 01:21:40.179 that he's talking about first? 01:21:40.399 --> 01:21:40.559 Well, 01:21:41.939 --> 01:21:43.159 he talked about it 01:21:43.159 --> 01:21:43.599 in verse 1. 01:21:43.679 --> 01:21:44.899 If you see someone 01:21:44.899 --> 01:21:46.039 caught in sin, 01:21:46.359 --> 01:21:47.839 someone trapped 01:21:47.839 --> 01:21:48.759 or ensnared, 01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:50.140 but that isn't 01:21:50.140 --> 01:21:51.039 necessarily all 01:21:51.039 --> 01:21:51.760 because there's actually 01:21:51.760 --> 01:21:52.659 a parallel passage 01:21:52.659 --> 01:21:54.000 in Romans 15 01:21:54.000 --> 01:21:55.460 where Paul is making 01:21:55.460 --> 01:21:56.560 the same common argument 01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:57.460 and he uses 01:21:57.460 --> 01:21:58.739 the same terminology 01:21:58.739 --> 01:22:00.940 and to get the full picture 01:22:00.940 --> 01:22:01.980 of what we're talking about here, 01:22:02.060 --> 01:22:02.600 we look at there, 01:22:02.680 --> 01:22:03.699 Romans 15.1, 01:22:04.180 --> 01:22:05.560 we who are strong 01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:06.780 have an obligation 01:22:06.780 --> 01:22:09.000 to bear with the failings 01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:09.780 of the weak 01:22:09.780 --> 01:22:11.680 and not to please ourselves. 01:22:11.760 --> 01:22:12.400 So that's parallel. 01:22:12.659 --> 01:22:13.780 Like there's the same word 01:22:13.780 --> 01:22:14.460 being used there. 01:22:14.460 --> 01:22:15.220 That word bear 01:22:15.220 --> 01:22:16.800 in Romans 15 01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:17.659 is the same one 01:22:17.659 --> 01:22:19.300 being used by Paul 01:22:19.300 --> 01:22:21.699 in Galatians 6.2. 01:22:23.119 --> 01:22:23.600 In other words, 01:22:23.680 --> 01:22:24.859 there are strong believers 01:22:24.859 --> 01:22:26.439 and weak believers. 01:22:26.739 --> 01:22:27.460 Weakness can come 01:22:27.460 --> 01:22:28.699 through immaturity 01:22:28.699 --> 01:22:30.920 or a lack of knowledge 01:22:30.920 --> 01:22:32.800 in Romans 15 01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:33.579 or it can come 01:22:33.579 --> 01:22:34.640 through the ensnaring 01:22:34.640 --> 01:22:35.140 of sin. 01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:36.480 Sometimes we're ministering 01:22:36.480 --> 01:22:36.840 to people 01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:37.600 where the issue 01:22:37.600 --> 01:22:38.560 is not primarily 01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:39.460 a sin issue. 01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:40.399 The issue is 01:22:40.399 --> 01:22:41.079 they're weak. 01:22:41.380 --> 01:22:41.920 They're issues, 01:22:42.060 --> 01:22:42.800 they're vulnerable. 01:22:42.800 --> 01:22:44.060 We don't want to attract 01:22:44.060 --> 01:22:44.720 everything like 01:22:44.720 --> 01:22:45.539 it's a sin issue. 01:22:45.659 --> 01:22:46.100 We don't want to be 01:22:46.100 --> 01:22:46.960 sin police. 01:22:47.300 --> 01:22:47.840 We don't want to go 01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:48.579 in after sin 01:22:48.579 --> 01:22:48.940 as if, 01:22:49.239 --> 01:22:49.380 okay, 01:22:49.440 --> 01:22:50.340 where's the sin here? 01:22:51.140 --> 01:22:51.420 In fact, 01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:52.460 I tend to start 01:22:52.460 --> 01:22:54.340 with the operative assumption 01:22:54.340 --> 01:22:55.480 that there is no sin, 01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:56.619 not because I don't believe 01:22:56.619 --> 01:22:57.380 people are sinners 01:22:57.380 --> 01:22:58.640 because I know we are, 01:22:59.079 --> 01:23:00.940 but that sin isn't driving this, 01:23:01.260 --> 01:23:02.119 that there's a weakness 01:23:02.119 --> 01:23:02.820 driving it, 01:23:02.900 --> 01:23:03.199 that you, 01:23:04.039 --> 01:23:04.640 because I think 01:23:04.640 --> 01:23:05.680 that allows me 01:23:05.680 --> 01:23:06.579 to help someone 01:23:06.579 --> 01:23:07.480 see sin 01:23:07.480 --> 01:23:08.760 for themselves 01:23:08.760 --> 01:23:09.720 and not me 01:23:09.720 --> 01:23:10.300 being the one 01:23:10.300 --> 01:23:11.079 trying to force them 01:23:11.079 --> 01:23:11.619 to see it. 01:23:11.619 --> 01:23:13.979 So I'm very reluctant 01:23:13.979 --> 01:23:15.159 to point out sin. 01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:16.559 In fact, 01:23:16.579 --> 01:23:17.779 I think it's much easier 01:23:17.779 --> 01:23:18.659 to point out sin 01:23:18.659 --> 01:23:19.800 than it is to point out grace. 01:23:19.960 --> 01:23:20.159 If I, 01:23:20.420 --> 01:23:21.220 in my own mind, 01:23:21.279 --> 01:23:22.559 if I can't point out grace 01:23:22.559 --> 01:23:23.099 then I'm not ready 01:23:23.099 --> 01:23:23.800 to point out sin. 01:23:24.479 --> 01:23:25.819 Even if it's slapping me 01:23:25.819 --> 01:23:26.460 in the face. 01:23:27.420 --> 01:23:28.359 Sin is easy to see. 01:23:29.359 --> 01:23:30.380 Grace is hard 01:23:30.380 --> 01:23:31.439 and that's where we want 01:23:31.439 --> 01:23:32.099 to give our attention. 01:23:32.920 --> 01:23:34.059 So we look at their weaknesses. 01:23:34.199 --> 01:23:35.079 We all have sin, 01:23:35.340 --> 01:23:36.319 we all have weaknesses 01:23:36.319 --> 01:23:37.680 and we all battle sin. 01:23:38.260 --> 01:23:39.760 We will all be weak 01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:41.400 and needing help 01:23:41.400 --> 01:23:42.100 at times. 01:23:45.100 --> 01:23:46.440 The key verb there 01:23:46.440 --> 01:23:48.440 that's translated bear 01:23:48.440 --> 01:23:50.159 is the Greek word bastazo 01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:51.900 and this is not 01:23:51.900 --> 01:23:53.199 like a type of coffee 01:23:53.199 --> 01:23:53.960 at Starbucks. 01:23:56.760 --> 01:23:57.760 It's a verb 01:23:57.760 --> 01:23:58.659 in this case, 01:23:59.060 --> 01:23:59.699 in both cases, 01:23:59.820 --> 01:24:00.920 Romans 15 and here, 01:24:01.300 --> 01:24:02.360 which has a range 01:24:02.360 --> 01:24:02.699 of meaning 01:24:02.699 --> 01:24:03.400 that comes around 01:24:03.400 --> 01:24:04.960 the idea of lifting up 01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:06.340 or raising up 01:24:06.340 --> 01:24:07.819 or coming alongside 01:24:07.819 --> 01:24:09.859 and carrying 01:24:09.859 --> 01:24:11.840 with someone 01:24:11.840 --> 01:24:13.340 of helping someone 01:24:13.340 --> 01:24:14.960 endure and sustain 01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:16.100 what they're carrying. 01:24:17.340 --> 01:24:18.739 It's not tolerance 01:24:18.739 --> 01:24:19.359 or patience 01:24:19.359 --> 01:24:20.260 and interestingly 01:24:20.260 --> 01:24:22.480 in Galatians 3, 01:24:22.859 --> 01:24:23.439 13, 01:24:24.039 --> 01:24:24.699 Paul exhorts 01:24:24.699 --> 01:24:25.439 the Colossians, 01:24:25.640 --> 01:24:26.460 Galatians 3, 01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:26.779 13, 01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:27.279 Paul exhorts 01:24:27.279 --> 01:24:27.800 the Colossians, 01:24:28.220 --> 01:24:29.279 bear with one another. 01:24:30.100 --> 01:24:31.279 Same English word, 01:24:31.399 --> 01:24:32.279 different Greek word. 01:24:32.279 --> 01:24:33.639 That word 01:24:33.639 --> 01:24:35.019 has to do 01:24:35.019 --> 01:24:35.659 with the idea 01:24:35.659 --> 01:24:36.559 of being patient, 01:24:37.059 --> 01:24:38.639 of long-suffering 01:24:38.639 --> 01:24:39.259 with people. 01:24:39.420 --> 01:24:40.300 It's a different word. 01:24:40.679 --> 01:24:41.500 This word here, 01:24:41.579 --> 01:24:42.139 bastazo, 01:24:42.559 --> 01:24:43.159 has to do 01:24:43.159 --> 01:24:43.559 with actually 01:24:43.559 --> 01:24:44.719 moving toward people 01:24:44.719 --> 01:24:45.859 and helping people 01:24:45.859 --> 01:24:46.979 carry a load. 01:24:51.099 --> 01:24:52.359 One image 01:24:52.359 --> 01:24:53.239 that comes from that 01:24:53.239 --> 01:24:54.619 is putting your shoulders 01:24:54.619 --> 01:24:55.800 under somebody, 01:24:56.579 --> 01:24:57.159 helping them 01:24:57.159 --> 01:24:58.539 by carrying a load. 01:24:58.800 --> 01:24:59.679 An illustration I love 01:24:59.679 --> 01:25:00.639 that I think about a lot 01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:02.200 is how many of you 01:25:02.200 --> 01:25:03.360 ever tried to carry 01:25:03.360 --> 01:25:07.140 like a queen-size mattress 01:25:07.140 --> 01:25:08.579 up a flight of stairs? 01:25:09.800 --> 01:25:12.220 If you have lived 01:25:12.220 --> 01:25:12.800 in an apartment, 01:25:13.039 --> 01:25:13.980 you know what I'm talking about. 01:25:14.820 --> 01:25:15.600 By yourself. 01:25:16.720 --> 01:25:18.060 Like trying to muscle 01:25:18.060 --> 01:25:20.360 a queen-size mattress 01:25:20.360 --> 01:25:21.579 upstairs by yourself. 01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:23.000 Virtually impossible. 01:25:23.340 --> 01:25:24.079 Use those handles, 01:25:24.420 --> 01:25:25.220 they don't work. 01:25:26.180 --> 01:25:26.400 In fact, 01:25:26.460 --> 01:25:26.600 you know, 01:25:26.660 --> 01:25:27.280 they're not actually 01:25:27.280 --> 01:25:27.880 to carry it, 01:25:27.900 --> 01:25:28.180 they're actually 01:25:28.180 --> 01:25:29.140 just flipping handles. 01:25:29.240 --> 01:25:30.060 I learned that. 01:25:31.320 --> 01:25:32.480 They have no ability 01:25:32.480 --> 01:25:33.760 to be put any weight on them. 01:25:33.840 --> 01:25:34.660 So if you're trying to carry, 01:25:34.780 --> 01:25:35.600 they don't work that way. 01:25:35.619 --> 01:25:36.020 I don't know why 01:25:36.020 --> 01:25:36.920 they don't put real handles 01:25:36.920 --> 01:25:37.280 on them, 01:25:37.579 --> 01:25:38.320 but they don't. 01:25:38.600 --> 01:25:40.060 So it's like that. 01:25:40.119 --> 01:25:41.240 So if someone is carrying 01:25:41.240 --> 01:25:42.660 this up the stairs 01:25:42.660 --> 01:25:43.780 and you see them 01:25:43.780 --> 01:25:44.579 carrying it 01:25:44.579 --> 01:25:45.240 and you say, 01:25:45.300 --> 01:25:45.400 whoa, 01:25:45.480 --> 01:25:46.240 let me get out of the way 01:25:46.240 --> 01:25:47.300 so I'm not in your way. 01:25:48.300 --> 01:25:49.440 And then you applaud them. 01:25:49.480 --> 01:25:49.640 Hey, 01:25:49.740 --> 01:25:50.760 you're doing a great job. 01:25:51.480 --> 01:25:52.160 Great job, man. 01:25:52.180 --> 01:25:52.500 I don't know 01:25:52.500 --> 01:25:53.180 if I could do that. 01:25:53.220 --> 01:25:54.000 You're doing a great job. 01:25:54.480 --> 01:25:55.920 That's not bastazo. 01:25:57.480 --> 01:25:57.800 Bastazo 01:25:57.800 --> 01:25:59.140 is when I go 01:25:59.140 --> 01:26:00.760 and I get a part of that 01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:01.960 and I lift it up 01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:02.980 and you and I 01:26:02.980 --> 01:26:04.579 both carry it together. 01:26:05.860 --> 01:26:06.860 That's the idea 01:26:06.860 --> 01:26:08.199 behind what Paul's saying 01:26:08.199 --> 01:26:09.380 with this idea 01:26:09.380 --> 01:26:10.699 of bear one another's burdens. 01:26:10.699 --> 01:26:11.720 It doesn't mean 01:26:11.720 --> 01:26:12.779 that we take the burden 01:26:12.779 --> 01:26:13.840 off of somebody. 01:26:14.260 --> 01:26:15.079 It doesn't mean 01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:16.560 we carry it for them. 01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:18.039 It means we come alongside 01:26:18.039 --> 01:26:19.520 and help them 01:26:19.520 --> 01:26:21.199 carry their burden. 01:26:21.199 --> 01:26:23.960 It's not a gift 01:26:23.960 --> 01:26:25.099 or a role. 01:26:26.039 --> 01:26:27.399 It's a particular way 01:26:27.399 --> 01:26:29.340 we express love. 01:26:30.559 --> 01:26:31.399 How do we know that? 01:26:31.439 --> 01:26:32.460 Because in that same verse 01:26:32.460 --> 01:26:32.880 he says, 01:26:33.220 --> 01:26:35.260 and so fulfill 01:26:35.260 --> 01:26:36.880 the law of Christ. 01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:37.760 What is the law of Christ? 01:26:37.840 --> 01:26:38.539 We find that in 01:26:38.539 --> 01:26:40.119 Galatians 5, 14 01:26:40.119 --> 01:26:40.899 later in the chapter. 01:26:41.059 --> 01:26:42.239 For the whole law 01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:43.479 is fulfilled 01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:44.559 in one word. 01:26:44.659 --> 01:26:45.479 You shall love 01:26:45.479 --> 01:26:46.319 your neighbor 01:26:46.319 --> 01:26:47.539 as yourself. 01:26:48.979 --> 01:26:49.539 So you see how this 01:26:49.539 --> 01:26:50.460 ties back into 01:26:50.460 --> 01:26:51.359 our first session 01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:52.300 on love. 01:26:52.579 --> 01:26:53.659 This is practical 01:26:53.659 --> 01:26:54.640 loving people. 01:26:55.060 --> 01:26:56.199 In the previous section 01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:57.199 we talked mostly about 01:26:57.199 --> 01:26:58.480 how do we posture ourselves 01:26:58.480 --> 01:26:59.500 in love toward people 01:26:59.500 --> 01:27:00.319 but we want to start 01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:00.880 looking at 01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:01.739 how do we actually 01:27:01.739 --> 01:27:02.699 do love 01:27:02.699 --> 01:27:04.939 in personal ministry. 01:27:06.260 --> 01:27:07.699 So the opposite question is 01:27:07.699 --> 01:27:08.500 what if I don't want 01:27:08.500 --> 01:27:08.899 to do it? 01:27:09.859 --> 01:27:10.779 What if I don't want 01:27:10.779 --> 01:27:11.560 to do this stuff? 01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:15.680 This is the 01:27:15.680 --> 01:27:17.579 I'm an introvert excuse. 01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:19.960 It's not my gift. 01:27:19.960 --> 01:27:21.260 Actually I'm not 01:27:21.260 --> 01:27:22.239 a people person. 01:27:23.699 --> 01:27:25.480 I don't get energy 01:27:25.480 --> 01:27:26.680 from helping people. 01:27:27.260 --> 01:27:28.260 I get energy 01:27:28.260 --> 01:27:30.420 from being by myself. 01:27:31.560 --> 01:27:32.920 Or it's the 01:27:32.920 --> 01:27:35.859 I need boundaries 01:27:35.859 --> 01:27:39.119 to protect me 01:27:39.119 --> 01:27:40.560 from toxic people 01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:42.039 bail out. 01:27:43.260 --> 01:27:43.960 Oh that person 01:27:43.960 --> 01:27:46.159 huge toxic. 01:27:46.859 --> 01:27:48.159 Can't deal with it. 01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:49.359 I need my boundaries 01:27:49.359 --> 01:27:49.739 up. 01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:52.579 Or it's the 01:27:52.579 --> 01:27:53.439 and this is a favorite 01:27:53.439 --> 01:27:53.779 one 01:27:53.779 --> 01:27:55.539 talk to the pastor 01:27:55.539 --> 01:27:57.760 dodge the situation. 01:27:58.760 --> 01:27:59.199 Have you ever 01:27:59.199 --> 01:28:00.019 talked to Sean 01:28:00.019 --> 01:28:00.559 about this? 01:28:01.420 --> 01:28:02.000 Sean would be 01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:03.119 really really helpful. 01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:06.180 That's what we do. 01:28:06.319 --> 01:28:06.639 That's how 01:28:06.639 --> 01:28:07.380 that's not 01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:08.599 bastazo folks. 01:28:09.159 --> 01:28:09.460 You know 01:28:09.460 --> 01:28:10.199 you cannot 01:28:10.199 --> 01:28:11.319 put boundaries 01:28:11.319 --> 01:28:11.840 up 01:28:11.840 --> 01:28:13.340 and help 01:28:13.340 --> 01:28:14.159 people carry 01:28:14.159 --> 01:28:14.699 burdens. 01:28:14.699 --> 01:28:16.119 A question 01:28:16.119 --> 01:28:16.720 you might have 01:28:16.720 --> 01:28:17.039 well Andy 01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:17.399 what about 01:28:17.399 --> 01:28:18.039 somebody who 01:28:18.039 --> 01:28:19.019 does have 01:28:19.019 --> 01:28:19.479 that effect 01:28:19.479 --> 01:28:19.920 on us 01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:20.439 and do we 01:28:20.439 --> 01:28:21.000 need to 01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:21.579 have boundaries? 01:28:21.579 --> 01:28:22.340 We can talk 01:28:22.340 --> 01:28:22.720 about that 01:28:22.720 --> 01:28:23.819 but the 01:28:23.819 --> 01:28:24.539 motive 01:28:24.539 --> 01:28:25.779 the therapeutic 01:28:25.779 --> 01:28:26.899 idea behind 01:28:26.899 --> 01:28:27.380 boundaries 01:28:27.380 --> 01:28:28.059 is set 01:28:28.059 --> 01:28:28.720 entirely 01:28:28.720 --> 01:28:30.979 on faulty 01:28:30.979 --> 01:28:31.699 psychological 01:28:31.699 --> 01:28:32.340 principles 01:28:32.340 --> 01:28:33.840 which is the 01:28:33.840 --> 01:28:34.679 way we 01:28:34.679 --> 01:28:35.639 protect 01:28:35.639 --> 01:28:36.279 ourselves 01:28:36.279 --> 01:28:37.260 and grow 01:28:37.260 --> 01:28:38.539 is to keep 01:28:38.539 --> 01:28:39.859 sinners out of 01:28:39.859 --> 01:28:40.500 our lives. 01:28:41.500 --> 01:28:41.819 To keep 01:28:41.819 --> 01:28:42.460 difficult people. 01:28:42.460 --> 01:28:43.500 here's the 01:28:43.500 --> 01:28:43.899 problem with 01:28:43.899 --> 01:28:44.119 that 01:28:44.119 --> 01:28:44.819 is we 01:28:44.819 --> 01:28:45.359 can't. 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:46.439 The only way 01:28:46.439 --> 01:28:47.100 to do that 01:28:47.100 --> 01:28:47.819 is to virtually 01:28:47.819 --> 01:28:48.260 eliminate 01:28:48.260 --> 01:28:49.000 anybody. 01:28:49.520 --> 01:28:49.899 When we do 01:28:49.899 --> 01:28:50.199 that what 01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:50.739 happens is 01:28:50.739 --> 01:28:51.859 the boundaries 01:28:51.859 --> 01:28:52.539 go taller 01:28:52.539 --> 01:28:53.000 and grow 01:28:53.000 --> 01:28:53.359 thicker 01:28:53.359 --> 01:28:55.119 and fewer 01:28:55.119 --> 01:28:55.439 and fewer 01:28:55.439 --> 01:28:55.980 people get 01:28:55.980 --> 01:28:56.659 behind them. 01:28:57.739 --> 01:28:57.899 So 01:28:57.899 --> 01:29:00.100 not a big 01:29:00.100 --> 01:29:00.640 boundary fan. 01:29:07.640 --> 01:29:08.199 Here's the 01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:08.739 other question 01:29:08.739 --> 01:29:10.279 and this 01:29:10.279 --> 01:29:10.760 kind of gets 01:29:10.760 --> 01:29:11.260 to all of 01:29:11.260 --> 01:29:11.579 us. 01:29:12.460 --> 01:29:13.579 How many 01:29:13.579 --> 01:29:14.420 of you 01:29:14.420 --> 01:29:15.439 sitting here 01:29:15.439 --> 01:29:15.980 tonight 01:29:15.980 --> 01:29:17.640 would define 01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:18.300 yourself 01:29:18.300 --> 01:29:19.100 as a 01:29:19.100 --> 01:29:19.500 needy 01:29:19.500 --> 01:29:19.960 person? 01:29:21.520 --> 01:29:22.699 My guess 01:29:22.699 --> 01:29:23.140 is that 01:29:23.140 --> 01:29:23.680 none of 01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:24.579 you would 01:29:24.579 --> 01:29:25.260 want to 01:29:25.260 --> 01:29:26.039 be described 01:29:26.039 --> 01:29:26.579 as a 01:29:26.579 --> 01:29:26.920 needy 01:29:26.920 --> 01:29:27.399 person. 01:29:31.439 --> 01:29:32.500 As someone 01:29:32.500 --> 01:29:32.939 who's a 01:29:32.939 --> 01:29:33.500 burden to 01:29:33.500 --> 01:29:34.020 others. 01:29:35.960 --> 01:29:37.039 If I met 01:29:37.039 --> 01:29:37.319 you in a 01:29:37.319 --> 01:29:37.960 small group 01:29:37.960 --> 01:29:38.960 how would 01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:39.659 you introduce 01:29:39.659 --> 01:29:40.300 yourself? 01:29:40.420 --> 01:29:40.579 Hey 01:29:40.579 --> 01:29:41.380 I'm the 01:29:41.380 --> 01:29:41.600 group 01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:42.180 problem. 01:29:42.460 --> 01:29:44.020 I'm 01:29:44.020 --> 01:29:44.800 astonishingly 01:29:44.800 --> 01:29:45.760 self-absorbed 01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:46.159 I'm 01:29:46.159 --> 01:29:46.859 hypocritical 01:29:46.859 --> 01:29:47.279 I'm 01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:47.760 stubborn 01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:48.239 I'm 01:29:48.239 --> 01:29:48.800 insensitive 01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:49.480 and I 01:29:49.480 --> 01:29:49.920 dominate 01:29:49.920 --> 01:29:50.699 conversations 01:29:50.699 --> 01:29:51.439 with my 01:29:51.439 --> 01:29:51.980 outlandish 01:29:51.980 --> 01:29:52.340 opinions 01:29:52.340 --> 01:29:53.119 and I 01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:53.539 don't 01:29:53.539 --> 01:29:54.079 bring 01:29:54.079 --> 01:29:54.739 snacks. 01:29:55.300 --> 01:29:55.779 That's 01:29:55.779 --> 01:29:56.020 me. 01:29:58.020 --> 01:29:58.680 We don't 01:29:58.680 --> 01:29:59.060 define 01:29:59.060 --> 01:29:59.420 ourselves 01:29:59.420 --> 01:29:59.920 that way. 01:30:00.460 --> 01:30:00.980 We tend 01:30:00.980 --> 01:30:01.319 to define 01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:01.760 ourselves 01:30:01.760 --> 01:30:02.480 as okay 01:30:02.480 --> 01:30:02.960 people. 01:30:03.239 --> 01:30:03.460 You ever 01:30:03.460 --> 01:30:04.020 notice that 01:30:04.020 --> 01:30:04.500 whenever we 01:30:04.500 --> 01:30:04.960 put ourselves 01:30:04.960 --> 01:30:05.180 in a 01:30:05.180 --> 01:30:05.500 continuum 01:30:05.500 --> 01:30:05.760 we're 01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:06.020 kind of 01:30:06.020 --> 01:30:06.300 right in 01:30:06.300 --> 01:30:06.420 the 01:30:06.420 --> 01:30:06.600 middle? 01:30:06.600 --> 01:30:08.480 We're 01:30:08.480 --> 01:30:08.980 never on 01:30:08.980 --> 01:30:09.079 the 01:30:09.079 --> 01:30:09.480 extreme 01:30:09.480 --> 01:30:09.760 on the 01:30:09.760 --> 01:30:10.160 continuum. 01:30:10.940 --> 01:30:11.360 We just 01:30:11.360 --> 01:30:11.780 move the 01:30:11.780 --> 01:30:12.200 extreme. 01:30:12.380 --> 01:30:12.920 We could 01:30:12.920 --> 01:30:13.340 be the 01:30:13.340 --> 01:30:13.640 extreme 01:30:13.640 --> 01:30:13.860 on the 01:30:13.860 --> 01:30:14.160 continuum. 01:30:14.280 --> 01:30:14.539 We just 01:30:14.539 --> 01:30:14.880 move it 01:30:14.880 --> 01:30:15.180 out to 01:30:15.180 --> 01:30:15.760 outlandish 01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:16.579 ends and 01:30:16.579 --> 01:30:17.060 put ourselves 01:30:17.060 --> 01:30:17.300 in the 01:30:17.300 --> 01:30:17.480 middle. 01:30:19.940 --> 01:30:20.380 That's 01:30:20.380 --> 01:30:20.660 what we 01:30:20.660 --> 01:30:21.060 tend to 01:30:21.060 --> 01:30:21.320 do. 01:30:21.480 --> 01:30:21.800 We are 01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:22.240 all 01:30:22.240 --> 01:30:22.940 somebody's 01:30:22.940 --> 01:30:23.200 needy 01:30:23.200 --> 01:30:23.560 person. 01:30:24.960 --> 01:30:25.360 There's 01:30:25.360 --> 01:30:26.020 somebody who 01:30:26.020 --> 01:30:26.560 sees you 01:30:26.560 --> 01:30:26.840 as a 01:30:26.840 --> 01:30:27.120 needy 01:30:27.120 --> 01:30:27.400 person. 01:30:27.740 --> 01:30:28.000 There are 01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:28.840 people in 01:30:28.840 --> 01:30:29.340 my church 01:30:29.340 --> 01:30:29.740 who see 01:30:29.740 --> 01:30:29.920 me. 01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:30.160 I've 01:30:30.160 --> 01:30:31.000 got a 01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:31.360 fellowship 01:30:31.360 --> 01:30:32.220 group who 01:30:32.220 --> 01:30:32.920 sees me 01:30:32.920 --> 01:30:33.220 as a 01:30:33.220 --> 01:30:33.520 needy 01:30:33.520 --> 01:30:35.180 person and 01:30:35.180 --> 01:30:35.500 who gets 01:30:35.500 --> 01:30:36.539 exasperated 01:30:36.539 --> 01:30:36.940 with how 01:30:36.940 --> 01:30:37.360 hard it 01:30:37.360 --> 01:30:37.640 is to 01:30:37.640 --> 01:30:38.000 care for 01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:38.220 me. 01:30:39.159 --> 01:30:39.860 Because I 01:30:39.860 --> 01:30:41.320 so dodge 01:30:41.320 --> 01:30:42.240 any 01:30:42.240 --> 01:30:43.100 meaningful 01:30:43.100 --> 01:30:44.180 depth 01:30:44.180 --> 01:30:44.960 of 01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:45.460 confession 01:30:45.460 --> 01:30:45.860 and 01:30:45.860 --> 01:30:46.560 opening 01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:46.780 my 01:30:46.780 --> 01:30:47.240 life up. 01:30:47.579 --> 01:30:47.780 I'm 01:30:47.780 --> 01:30:48.280 like a 01:30:48.280 --> 01:30:48.800 bad 01:30:48.800 --> 01:30:50.000 glued 01:30:50.000 --> 01:30:50.520 together 01:30:50.520 --> 01:30:50.960 onion. 01:30:51.539 --> 01:30:52.500 You peel 01:30:52.500 --> 01:30:53.140 off layers. 01:30:53.840 --> 01:30:54.220 You have 01:30:54.220 --> 01:30:54.860 to slice 01:30:54.860 --> 01:30:55.340 down the 01:30:55.340 --> 01:30:55.640 middle 01:30:55.640 --> 01:30:56.360 to get 01:30:56.360 --> 01:30:56.740 to me. 01:30:57.420 --> 01:30:57.820 There are 01:30:57.820 --> 01:30:58.400 no layers 01:30:58.400 --> 01:30:58.640 that are 01:30:58.640 --> 01:30:59.300 coming off. 01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:00.840 I have 01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:01.420 glued them 01:31:01.420 --> 01:31:01.980 all on 01:31:01.980 --> 01:31:02.360 tightly. 01:31:05.180 --> 01:31:06.980 But you're 01:31:06.980 --> 01:31:07.380 a burden 01:31:07.380 --> 01:31:08.300 to others. 01:31:09.800 --> 01:31:10.260 Somebody 01:31:10.260 --> 01:31:10.840 has to 01:31:10.840 --> 01:31:11.880 ask God 01:31:11.880 --> 01:31:12.800 for grace 01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:13.740 and love 01:31:13.740 --> 01:31:15.079 to bear 01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:16.119 your burdens. 01:31:17.220 --> 01:31:17.800 And so we 01:31:17.800 --> 01:31:18.360 do it for 01:31:18.360 --> 01:31:18.880 one another. 01:31:19.619 --> 01:31:20.320 There is no 01:31:20.320 --> 01:31:21.220 burden-free 01:31:21.220 --> 01:31:22.280 zone in the 01:31:22.280 --> 01:31:23.000 Christian life. 01:31:23.140 --> 01:31:23.619 There are no 01:31:23.619 --> 01:31:24.560 burden-free 01:31:24.560 --> 01:31:25.420 relationships 01:31:25.420 --> 01:31:26.380 among God's 01:31:26.380 --> 01:31:26.740 people. 01:31:27.159 --> 01:31:27.560 Bastazo 01:31:27.560 --> 01:31:28.260 can't be 01:31:28.260 --> 01:31:28.780 about the 01:31:28.780 --> 01:31:29.500 eradication 01:31:29.500 --> 01:31:30.680 of burdens 01:31:30.680 --> 01:31:31.119 in our 01:31:31.119 --> 01:31:31.400 midst. 01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:32.200 We cannot 01:31:32.200 --> 01:31:33.000 view personal 01:31:33.000 --> 01:31:33.740 ministry as a 01:31:33.740 --> 01:31:34.440 chance to fix 01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:34.960 everybody's 01:31:34.960 --> 01:31:35.939 problems so 01:31:35.939 --> 01:31:36.419 we're all 01:31:36.419 --> 01:31:37.039 doing okay. 01:31:37.299 --> 01:31:37.799 God will 01:31:37.799 --> 01:31:38.219 not let 01:31:38.219 --> 01:31:38.779 his body 01:31:38.779 --> 01:31:39.259 all do 01:31:39.259 --> 01:31:39.659 okay at 01:31:39.659 --> 01:31:40.099 one time. 01:31:41.439 --> 01:31:42.339 He won't. 01:31:42.759 --> 01:31:43.119 There's never 01:31:43.119 --> 01:31:43.519 been a church 01:31:43.519 --> 01:31:43.979 in history 01:31:43.979 --> 01:31:44.979 where everybody 01:31:44.979 --> 01:31:45.559 was doing 01:31:45.559 --> 01:31:47.000 okay for 01:31:47.000 --> 01:31:47.439 a day. 01:31:49.979 --> 01:31:50.619 It just 01:31:50.619 --> 01:31:51.119 doesn't happen. 01:31:51.279 --> 01:31:51.960 Somebody is 01:31:51.960 --> 01:31:52.460 stinking it 01:31:52.460 --> 01:31:53.139 up somewhere. 01:31:54.919 --> 01:31:55.679 Because God 01:31:55.679 --> 01:31:56.159 is at work 01:31:56.159 --> 01:31:56.579 in people's 01:31:56.579 --> 01:31:56.939 lives to 01:31:56.939 --> 01:31:57.219 make them 01:31:57.219 --> 01:31:57.579 holy and 01:31:57.579 --> 01:31:57.939 he doesn't 01:31:57.939 --> 01:31:58.439 try to do 01:31:58.439 --> 01:31:59.019 it as a 01:31:59.019 --> 01:31:59.659 group project. 01:32:00.359 --> 01:32:01.119 He uses 01:32:01.119 --> 01:32:01.699 the group 01:32:01.699 --> 01:32:03.159 so that 01:32:03.159 --> 01:32:03.659 people can 01:32:03.659 --> 01:32:04.359 change 01:32:04.359 --> 01:32:05.319 over time. 01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:07.439 There's no 01:32:07.439 --> 01:32:08.399 herd immunity 01:32:08.399 --> 01:32:09.819 when it 01:32:09.819 --> 01:32:10.219 comes to 01:32:10.219 --> 01:32:10.539 sin. 01:32:13.019 --> 01:32:13.719 There'll be 01:32:13.719 --> 01:32:14.319 constant 01:32:14.319 --> 01:32:15.219 variants of 01:32:15.219 --> 01:32:15.639 burdens 01:32:15.639 --> 01:32:16.799 invading our 01:32:16.799 --> 01:32:17.479 lives because 01:32:17.479 --> 01:32:18.159 there are 01:32:18.159 --> 01:32:18.599 constant 01:32:18.599 --> 01:32:19.519 mutations of 01:32:19.519 --> 01:32:20.739 sin in 01:32:20.739 --> 01:32:21.339 our hearts 01:32:21.339 --> 01:32:22.539 and constant 01:32:22.539 --> 01:32:24.539 trials in 01:32:24.539 --> 01:32:25.139 this sin 01:32:25.139 --> 01:32:25.599 sick world 01:32:25.599 --> 01:32:26.259 around us. 01:32:26.339 --> 01:32:26.639 So again, 01:32:26.679 --> 01:32:27.019 not every 01:32:27.019 --> 01:32:27.399 burden is 01:32:27.399 --> 01:32:27.819 because I'm 01:32:27.819 --> 01:32:28.159 sinning. 01:32:28.519 --> 01:32:30.000 Sometimes I 01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:30.219 have a 01:32:30.219 --> 01:32:30.659 tragedy. 01:32:30.899 --> 01:32:31.439 Sometimes I 01:32:31.439 --> 01:32:31.699 have a 01:32:31.699 --> 01:32:32.039 crisis. 01:32:32.239 --> 01:32:32.699 Sometimes I 01:32:32.699 --> 01:32:32.880 have a 01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:33.380 health issue. 01:32:33.380 --> 01:32:34.319 Sometimes I 01:32:34.319 --> 01:32:34.699 lose my 01:32:34.699 --> 01:32:35.000 job. 01:32:35.119 --> 01:32:36.760 Sometimes I 01:32:36.760 --> 01:32:37.159 lose my 01:32:37.159 --> 01:32:37.900 place to 01:32:37.900 --> 01:32:38.079 live. 01:32:38.159 --> 01:32:38.819 Sometimes I 01:32:38.819 --> 01:32:39.199 wreck my 01:32:39.199 --> 01:32:39.420 car. 01:32:39.539 --> 01:32:40.640 Sometimes things 01:32:40.640 --> 01:32:41.060 happen. 01:32:42.020 --> 01:32:42.659 And that's a 01:32:42.659 --> 01:32:43.480 burden that we 01:32:43.480 --> 01:32:43.940 help people 01:32:43.940 --> 01:32:44.400 carry. 01:32:45.340 --> 01:32:46.020 So we want to 01:32:46.020 --> 01:32:46.539 deal with this. 01:32:46.779 --> 01:32:47.960 So I want to 01:32:47.960 --> 01:32:48.579 talk about three 01:32:48.579 --> 01:32:49.920 ways we can 01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:51.340 help learn to 01:32:51.340 --> 01:32:52.119 carry burdens. 01:32:52.920 --> 01:32:53.840 So the first 01:32:53.840 --> 01:32:54.600 way is this. 01:32:55.140 --> 01:32:55.739 We want to 01:32:55.739 --> 01:32:56.340 seek to 01:32:56.340 --> 01:32:58.060 understand the 01:32:58.060 --> 01:32:59.180 person and 01:32:59.180 --> 01:32:59.659 their burden. 01:32:59.739 --> 01:33:00.020 We started 01:33:00.020 --> 01:33:00.460 talking about 01:33:00.460 --> 01:33:00.920 this already, 01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:01.239 but I want to 01:33:01.239 --> 01:33:01.819 focus in on 01:33:01.819 --> 01:33:01.939 it. 01:33:02.479 --> 01:33:02.960 If we're 01:33:02.960 --> 01:33:03.159 going to 01:33:03.159 --> 01:33:03.599 help, we 01:33:03.599 --> 01:33:03.920 need to 01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:04.599 seek to 01:33:04.599 --> 01:33:06.939 understand the 01:33:06.939 --> 01:33:07.800 person and 01:33:07.800 --> 01:33:08.420 their burden. 01:33:09.500 --> 01:33:09.880 Did you ever 01:33:09.880 --> 01:33:10.460 have somebody 01:33:10.460 --> 01:33:11.380 help you with 01:33:11.380 --> 01:33:11.880 something by 01:33:11.880 --> 01:33:12.500 doing it the 01:33:12.500 --> 01:33:12.920 way they 01:33:12.920 --> 01:33:13.319 think it 01:33:13.319 --> 01:33:13.659 should be 01:33:13.659 --> 01:33:14.000 done? 01:33:15.699 --> 01:33:16.260 So let's 01:33:16.260 --> 01:33:16.599 say you're 01:33:16.599 --> 01:33:17.000 trying to 01:33:17.000 --> 01:33:17.460 pack a 01:33:17.460 --> 01:33:17.819 car. 01:33:18.739 --> 01:33:18.979 You ever 01:33:18.979 --> 01:33:19.319 try to 01:33:19.319 --> 01:33:19.880 pack a 01:33:19.880 --> 01:33:20.880 car with 01:33:20.880 --> 01:33:21.340 someone who 01:33:21.340 --> 01:33:21.739 thinks they 01:33:21.739 --> 01:33:22.139 know how to 01:33:22.139 --> 01:33:22.500 pack a 01:33:22.500 --> 01:33:22.739 car? 01:33:24.659 --> 01:33:25.679 And you've 01:33:25.679 --> 01:33:26.159 got it all 01:33:26.159 --> 01:33:26.880 laid out and 01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:27.179 they're saying, 01:33:27.260 --> 01:33:27.519 no, this 01:33:27.519 --> 01:33:27.979 needs to go 01:33:27.979 --> 01:33:28.199 there. 01:33:28.300 --> 01:33:28.619 We need to 01:33:28.619 --> 01:33:28.979 put this 01:33:28.979 --> 01:33:29.219 there. 01:33:29.220 --> 01:33:32.039 I've got 01:33:32.039 --> 01:33:34.560 an unhealthy 01:33:34.560 --> 01:33:35.340 number of 01:33:35.340 --> 01:33:35.940 friends who 01:33:35.940 --> 01:33:36.300 feel like 01:33:36.300 --> 01:33:37.119 they're experts 01:33:37.119 --> 01:33:37.659 in packing. 01:33:38.940 --> 01:33:39.260 And I've 01:33:39.260 --> 01:33:39.740 just learned 01:33:39.740 --> 01:33:42.079 it could be 01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:42.680 my stuff, 01:33:42.800 --> 01:33:43.100 but I don't 01:33:43.100 --> 01:33:43.760 even talk. 01:33:44.560 --> 01:33:45.240 Just go for 01:33:45.240 --> 01:33:45.360 it. 01:33:45.360 --> 01:33:45.600 Because I 01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:46.539 realize they 01:33:46.539 --> 01:33:47.820 don't care the 01:33:47.820 --> 01:33:48.400 way I want to 01:33:48.400 --> 01:33:48.680 pack. 01:33:48.780 --> 01:33:49.119 It's my 01:33:49.119 --> 01:33:49.460 stuff. 01:33:49.659 --> 01:33:49.980 They don't 01:33:49.980 --> 01:33:50.680 care because 01:33:50.680 --> 01:33:51.180 they're expert 01:33:51.180 --> 01:33:51.640 packers. 01:33:52.140 --> 01:33:52.720 And so they 01:33:52.720 --> 01:33:53.340 do it. 01:33:53.940 --> 01:33:54.699 But that's 01:33:54.699 --> 01:33:55.140 what we tend 01:33:55.140 --> 01:33:55.460 to do. 01:33:55.579 --> 01:33:56.560 I'm a good 01:33:56.560 --> 01:33:57.100 fixer of 01:33:57.100 --> 01:33:57.579 problems. 01:33:57.579 --> 01:33:58.619 Let me 01:33:58.619 --> 01:33:59.960 take care of 01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:00.439 this for 01:34:00.439 --> 01:34:00.720 you. 01:34:01.300 --> 01:34:01.699 We're not 01:34:01.699 --> 01:34:02.739 understanding. 01:34:03.739 --> 01:34:04.300 The problem 01:34:04.300 --> 01:34:04.979 is the 01:34:04.979 --> 01:34:05.779 person thinks 01:34:05.779 --> 01:34:06.100 they can 01:34:06.100 --> 01:34:06.699 help from 01:34:06.699 --> 01:34:07.479 their point 01:34:07.479 --> 01:34:08.039 of view, 01:34:08.720 --> 01:34:09.239 but they 01:34:09.239 --> 01:34:09.659 don't really 01:34:09.659 --> 01:34:10.340 understand. 01:34:10.640 --> 01:34:10.800 Good 01:34:10.800 --> 01:34:12.680 bastazo is 01:34:12.680 --> 01:34:13.300 help that 01:34:13.300 --> 01:34:14.600 knows more 01:34:14.600 --> 01:34:14.979 than the 01:34:14.979 --> 01:34:15.340 problem. 01:34:15.439 --> 01:34:15.779 We've talked 01:34:15.779 --> 01:34:16.260 about this. 01:34:16.340 --> 01:34:17.019 It understands 01:34:17.019 --> 01:34:17.739 the person 01:34:17.739 --> 01:34:18.659 in their 01:34:18.659 --> 01:34:19.180 problem. 01:34:20.220 --> 01:34:20.880 It means we 01:34:20.880 --> 01:34:21.500 need to do 01:34:21.500 --> 01:34:22.079 something that 01:34:22.079 --> 01:34:23.399 really isn't 01:34:23.399 --> 01:34:24.319 all that 01:34:24.319 --> 01:34:24.880 popular. 01:34:25.059 --> 01:34:25.579 I'm going to 01:34:25.579 --> 01:34:26.300 tell you to do 01:34:26.300 --> 01:34:27.440 something that 01:34:27.440 --> 01:34:28.180 is not very 01:34:28.180 --> 01:34:30.520 popular these 01:34:30.520 --> 01:34:31.039 days. 01:34:33.159 --> 01:34:35.159 Stop talking 01:34:35.159 --> 01:34:36.820 and listen. 01:34:38.739 --> 01:34:39.739 What would 01:34:39.739 --> 01:34:40.659 our culture 01:34:40.659 --> 01:34:41.460 have been like 01:34:41.460 --> 01:34:42.460 over the 01:34:42.460 --> 01:34:44.239 past year if 01:34:44.239 --> 01:34:45.060 we stopped 01:34:45.060 --> 01:34:47.140 talking and 01:34:47.140 --> 01:34:48.039 started listening? 01:34:49.440 --> 01:34:50.460 What would 01:34:50.460 --> 01:34:51.659 racial conversation 01:34:51.659 --> 01:34:53.500 look like if 01:34:53.500 --> 01:34:54.260 we stopped 01:34:54.260 --> 01:34:56.079 talking and 01:34:56.079 --> 01:34:56.960 started listening? 01:34:58.079 --> 01:34:58.720 What would 01:34:58.720 --> 01:34:59.220 political 01:34:59.220 --> 01:35:00.340 discourse look 01:35:00.340 --> 01:35:01.539 like if we 01:35:01.539 --> 01:35:02.920 stopped talking 01:35:02.920 --> 01:35:04.300 and started 01:35:04.300 --> 01:35:04.880 listening? 01:35:05.059 --> 01:35:05.779 We are not 01:35:05.779 --> 01:35:07.340 good listeners. 01:35:07.579 --> 01:35:08.659 We need to 01:35:08.659 --> 01:35:09.920 become a 01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:10.600 good listener. 01:35:11.760 --> 01:35:12.399 How would 01:35:12.399 --> 01:35:13.059 you define a 01:35:13.059 --> 01:35:13.460 good listener? 01:35:13.559 --> 01:35:13.899 Let me just 01:35:13.899 --> 01:35:14.279 give you some 01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:14.899 pointers here. 01:35:15.399 --> 01:35:16.199 We need to 01:35:16.199 --> 01:35:16.500 be good 01:35:16.500 --> 01:35:16.840 listeners, 01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:17.159 folks. 01:35:17.300 --> 01:35:17.939 If we're 01:35:17.939 --> 01:35:18.100 going to 01:35:18.100 --> 01:35:18.340 minister, 01:35:18.479 --> 01:35:19.100 we need to 01:35:19.100 --> 01:35:19.300 be good. 01:35:19.420 --> 01:35:19.880 That's what 01:35:19.880 --> 01:35:20.220 should be 01:35:20.220 --> 01:35:20.920 known about 01:35:20.920 --> 01:35:21.199 us. 01:35:21.300 --> 01:35:21.840 He listens 01:35:21.840 --> 01:35:22.140 well. 01:35:22.140 --> 01:35:23.079 She listens 01:35:23.079 --> 01:35:23.380 well. 01:35:23.460 --> 01:35:23.819 That's our 01:35:23.819 --> 01:35:24.859 first entry 01:35:24.859 --> 01:35:25.260 card. 01:35:26.079 --> 01:35:27.619 We listen, 01:35:27.760 --> 01:35:28.319 number one, 01:35:28.420 --> 01:35:28.960 to care. 01:35:29.600 --> 01:35:30.239 Listening isn't 01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:30.939 simply data 01:35:30.939 --> 01:35:31.439 collection. 01:35:32.500 --> 01:35:33.439 Listening is a 01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:34.380 way we express 01:35:34.380 --> 01:35:34.699 care. 01:35:35.039 --> 01:35:35.539 When someone 01:35:35.539 --> 01:35:36.439 feels listened 01:35:36.439 --> 01:35:37.760 to, they're 01:35:37.760 --> 01:35:38.260 willing to 01:35:38.260 --> 01:35:38.939 open up their 01:35:38.939 --> 01:35:39.460 lives. 01:35:40.140 --> 01:35:40.500 If someone 01:35:40.500 --> 01:35:41.140 feels listened 01:35:41.140 --> 01:35:42.539 to, even if 01:35:42.539 --> 01:35:43.140 you don't fully 01:35:43.140 --> 01:35:44.100 understand them, 01:35:44.180 --> 01:35:44.760 they feel like 01:35:44.760 --> 01:35:45.439 they want to 01:35:45.439 --> 01:35:46.000 help you 01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:46.960 understand them. 01:35:46.960 --> 01:35:47.960 listen. 01:35:47.960 --> 01:35:48.319 Amen. 01:35:48.319 --> 01:35:48.840 Amen. 01:35:48.840 --> 01:35:49.819 My friend 01:35:49.819 --> 01:35:50.460 Robert Chong, 01:35:50.680 --> 01:35:51.899 who's a 01:35:51.899 --> 01:35:52.399 pastor of 01:35:52.399 --> 01:35:52.800 counseling and 01:35:52.800 --> 01:35:53.119 sojourn 01:35:53.119 --> 01:35:54.500 church, says 01:35:54.500 --> 01:35:54.859 this. 01:35:54.960 --> 01:35:55.199 He says, 01:35:55.300 --> 01:35:56.220 listening is a 01:35:56.220 --> 01:35:57.380 gospel practice. 01:35:58.319 --> 01:35:58.579 We must 01:35:58.579 --> 01:35:59.680 listen to God, 01:35:59.920 --> 01:36:00.699 to self, 01:36:00.859 --> 01:36:01.480 and others. 01:36:02.399 --> 01:36:03.060 Good listening 01:36:03.060 --> 01:36:03.899 goes hand in 01:36:03.899 --> 01:36:04.579 hand with good 01:36:04.579 --> 01:36:05.159 questions. 01:36:06.100 --> 01:36:06.819 We tend to 01:36:06.819 --> 01:36:08.199 talk more than 01:36:08.199 --> 01:36:08.579 listen. 01:36:08.659 --> 01:36:09.300 Amen to that. 01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:10.500 We tend not to 01:36:10.500 --> 01:36:12.199 explore what we 01:36:12.199 --> 01:36:13.539 hear and often 01:36:13.539 --> 01:36:14.340 make assumptions 01:36:14.340 --> 01:36:15.180 that lead us 01:36:15.180 --> 01:36:15.860 to a wrong 01:36:15.860 --> 01:36:17.220 understanding of 01:36:17.220 --> 01:36:18.000 the complexities 01:36:18.000 --> 01:36:19.360 of the struggle. 01:36:19.460 --> 01:36:19.659 One of the 01:36:19.659 --> 01:36:19.920 things that 01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:20.480 happens a lot 01:36:20.480 --> 01:36:21.380 of times is 01:36:21.380 --> 01:36:22.440 we listen 01:36:22.440 --> 01:36:23.680 enough to 01:36:23.680 --> 01:36:24.100 where we 01:36:24.100 --> 01:36:24.720 feel like we 01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:25.279 can take their 01:36:25.279 --> 01:36:26.140 complex problem 01:36:26.140 --> 01:36:26.539 and make it 01:36:26.539 --> 01:36:27.199 simple from our 01:36:27.199 --> 01:36:27.680 perspective. 01:36:28.900 --> 01:36:29.760 We don't allow 01:36:29.760 --> 01:36:30.500 the complex to 01:36:30.500 --> 01:36:31.039 stay complex. 01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:31.760 We make it 01:36:31.760 --> 01:36:32.380 simplified on 01:36:32.380 --> 01:36:32.819 our end, 01:36:33.140 --> 01:36:33.340 though it's 01:36:33.340 --> 01:36:33.920 complex on 01:36:33.920 --> 01:36:34.199 theirs. 01:36:34.840 --> 01:36:35.140 That's what 01:36:35.140 --> 01:36:35.480 he's after 01:36:35.480 --> 01:36:35.680 here. 01:36:36.119 --> 01:36:36.739 The goal of 01:36:36.739 --> 01:36:37.699 listening and 01:36:37.699 --> 01:36:38.720 exploring is 01:36:38.720 --> 01:36:39.180 to better 01:36:39.180 --> 01:36:39.880 understand the 01:36:39.880 --> 01:36:41.000 person's story, 01:36:41.579 --> 01:36:42.300 which includes 01:36:42.300 --> 01:36:42.880 sin and 01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:43.460 weakness and 01:36:43.460 --> 01:36:43.900 suffering, 01:36:44.340 --> 01:36:45.060 and point 01:36:45.060 --> 01:36:45.420 them to 01:36:45.420 --> 01:36:46.380 Christ and 01:36:46.380 --> 01:36:47.699 the gospel so 01:36:47.699 --> 01:36:48.239 they can come 01:36:48.239 --> 01:36:48.940 to understand 01:36:48.940 --> 01:36:49.560 their own 01:36:49.560 --> 01:36:50.579 story in 01:36:50.579 --> 01:36:51.260 light of God's 01:36:51.260 --> 01:36:51.980 larger story, 01:36:52.060 --> 01:36:52.380 redemption. 01:36:52.960 --> 01:36:53.440 That's where we 01:36:53.440 --> 01:36:54.060 get beyond 01:36:54.060 --> 01:36:55.340 problem solving. 01:36:55.600 --> 01:36:56.180 The problem is 01:36:56.180 --> 01:36:56.920 just the problem. 01:36:57.239 --> 01:36:57.659 What we want 01:36:57.659 --> 01:36:58.079 them to do is 01:36:58.079 --> 01:36:58.840 encounter Christ, 01:36:58.920 --> 01:36:59.420 which means we 01:36:59.420 --> 01:37:00.560 need to reflect 01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:01.319 Christ in the 01:37:01.319 --> 01:37:02.000 way we listen. 01:37:05.640 --> 01:37:06.560 So we listen 01:37:06.560 --> 01:37:07.260 to care. 01:37:08.560 --> 01:37:09.060 Here's an 01:37:09.060 --> 01:37:09.779 interesting thing. 01:37:10.220 --> 01:37:10.840 A friend of 01:37:10.840 --> 01:37:11.300 mine who I 01:37:11.300 --> 01:37:12.420 teach this class 01:37:12.420 --> 01:37:13.800 with, he 01:37:13.800 --> 01:37:14.500 didn't create 01:37:14.500 --> 01:37:15.159 himself, but 01:37:15.159 --> 01:37:16.600 I think it's 01:37:16.600 --> 01:37:17.180 very helpful. 01:37:19.020 --> 01:37:19.460 In a 01:37:19.460 --> 01:37:20.119 therapeutic 01:37:20.119 --> 01:37:21.420 understanding, 01:37:22.340 --> 01:37:22.640 I use 01:37:22.640 --> 01:37:23.220 therapeutic to 01:37:23.220 --> 01:37:24.239 mean coming 01:37:24.239 --> 01:37:24.640 from the 01:37:24.640 --> 01:37:24.960 therapeutic 01:37:24.960 --> 01:37:25.579 world, the 01:37:25.579 --> 01:37:26.039 psychological 01:37:26.039 --> 01:37:30.659 world, the 01:37:30.659 --> 01:37:31.020 counseling 01:37:31.020 --> 01:37:31.900 relationship 01:37:31.900 --> 01:37:38.960 looks like 01:37:38.960 --> 01:37:39.460 this. 01:37:39.460 --> 01:37:40.460 therapy. 01:37:40.460 --> 01:37:41.460 There's 01:37:41.460 --> 01:37:42.399 somebody sitting 01:37:42.399 --> 01:37:42.939 in the chair. 01:37:43.079 --> 01:37:43.340 There's a 01:37:43.340 --> 01:37:43.659 counselor. 01:37:45.239 --> 01:37:46.560 And there's a 01:37:46.560 --> 01:37:47.180 counselee. 01:37:48.739 --> 01:37:49.180 And they're 01:37:49.180 --> 01:37:49.600 sitting in the 01:37:49.600 --> 01:37:49.840 chair. 01:37:50.340 --> 01:37:50.980 I'm a terrible 01:37:50.980 --> 01:37:51.619 artist. 01:37:52.579 --> 01:37:53.560 So they're 01:37:53.560 --> 01:37:53.980 sitting in the 01:37:53.980 --> 01:37:54.199 chair. 01:37:54.699 --> 01:37:56.000 And so this 01:37:56.000 --> 01:37:56.619 is good 01:37:56.619 --> 01:37:57.560 counseling right 01:37:57.560 --> 01:37:57.859 here. 01:37:58.920 --> 01:37:59.760 This is the 01:37:59.760 --> 01:38:00.079 goal. 01:38:00.640 --> 01:38:01.220 Back and 01:38:01.220 --> 01:38:01.460 forth 01:38:01.460 --> 01:38:02.180 communication. 01:38:03.239 --> 01:38:03.960 That's what 01:38:03.960 --> 01:38:04.680 therapists are 01:38:04.680 --> 01:38:05.300 going for. 01:38:05.380 --> 01:38:05.739 They don't want 01:38:05.739 --> 01:38:06.359 to just talk to 01:38:06.359 --> 01:38:07.180 people and they 01:38:07.180 --> 01:38:07.480 don't want to 01:38:07.480 --> 01:38:08.000 just be talked 01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:08.279 to. 01:38:08.539 --> 01:38:09.060 They want to 01:38:09.060 --> 01:38:09.800 have dialogue. 01:38:11.020 --> 01:38:11.579 What's the 01:38:11.579 --> 01:38:11.979 distinctive 01:38:11.979 --> 01:38:14.420 difference from 01:38:14.420 --> 01:38:14.819 a Christian 01:38:14.819 --> 01:38:15.439 orientation? 01:38:17.319 --> 01:38:17.760 The distinctive 01:38:17.760 --> 01:38:18.300 what's that? 01:38:22.260 --> 01:38:22.800 Yeah. 01:38:23.039 --> 01:38:23.899 It's not a 01:38:23.899 --> 01:38:24.279 dialogue. 01:38:24.979 --> 01:38:25.539 It's a 01:38:25.539 --> 01:38:26.140 trialogue. 01:38:27.760 --> 01:38:28.720 Because there's 01:38:28.720 --> 01:38:31.779 here who is 01:38:31.779 --> 01:38:32.640 also speaking 01:38:32.640 --> 01:38:33.279 and also 01:38:33.279 --> 01:38:33.720 listening. 01:38:35.659 --> 01:38:36.619 God is always 01:38:36.619 --> 01:38:37.199 in the room, 01:38:37.340 --> 01:38:37.640 folks. 01:38:38.000 --> 01:38:39.340 He has an 01:38:39.340 --> 01:38:39.760 agenda. 01:38:39.899 --> 01:38:40.539 My agenda 01:38:40.539 --> 01:38:41.880 is only good 01:38:41.880 --> 01:38:42.239 as it's 01:38:42.239 --> 01:38:42.779 relative to 01:38:42.779 --> 01:38:43.380 his agenda. 01:38:44.720 --> 01:38:45.460 God is 01:38:45.460 --> 01:38:45.939 speaking. 01:38:46.760 --> 01:38:47.220 Am I 01:38:47.220 --> 01:38:47.840 being part 01:38:47.840 --> 01:38:48.340 of God's 01:38:48.340 --> 01:38:48.760 speaking 01:38:48.760 --> 01:38:49.800 ministry or 01:38:49.800 --> 01:38:50.180 am I 01:38:50.180 --> 01:38:50.819 carrying on 01:38:50.819 --> 01:38:51.239 my own 01:38:51.239 --> 01:38:51.560 speaking 01:38:51.560 --> 01:38:52.260 ministry apart 01:38:52.260 --> 01:38:52.680 from him? 01:38:52.960 --> 01:38:53.380 It's a 01:38:53.380 --> 01:38:54.279 wonderful thing 01:38:54.279 --> 01:38:55.020 to recognize 01:38:55.020 --> 01:38:55.399 in any 01:38:55.399 --> 01:38:55.680 relationship. 01:38:56.020 --> 01:38:56.260 Again, 01:38:56.340 --> 01:38:57.140 another reason 01:38:57.140 --> 01:38:58.439 that texting 01:38:58.439 --> 01:38:59.340 counsel can be 01:38:59.340 --> 01:39:00.119 so unhelpful 01:39:00.119 --> 01:39:00.819 is because it 01:39:00.819 --> 01:39:02.079 forces dialogue 01:39:02.079 --> 01:39:03.020 instead of 01:39:03.020 --> 01:39:03.720 trialogue. 01:39:04.380 --> 01:39:05.020 I'm not 01:39:05.020 --> 01:39:06.319 aware of the 01:39:06.319 --> 01:39:07.020 presence of the 01:39:07.020 --> 01:39:07.360 spirit. 01:39:07.360 --> 01:39:07.940 I'm just 01:39:07.940 --> 01:39:08.680 responding to 01:39:08.680 --> 01:39:10.120 a question in 01:39:10.120 --> 01:39:10.640 a horizontal 01:39:10.640 --> 01:39:11.100 way. 01:39:11.640 --> 01:39:12.080 The vertical 01:39:12.080 --> 01:39:12.820 dimension is 01:39:12.820 --> 01:39:13.540 everything. 01:39:15.120 --> 01:39:15.660 If this is 01:39:15.660 --> 01:39:16.240 happening and 01:39:16.240 --> 01:39:16.680 there's nothing 01:39:16.680 --> 01:39:17.420 happening here, 01:39:17.700 --> 01:39:18.740 or worst case, 01:39:18.840 --> 01:39:19.740 we are resistant 01:39:19.740 --> 01:39:20.500 to what God's 01:39:20.500 --> 01:39:21.840 doing or 01:39:21.840 --> 01:39:22.860 ignoring what 01:39:22.860 --> 01:39:23.380 God's doing, 01:39:23.600 --> 01:39:24.000 we're actually 01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:24.480 doing more 01:39:24.480 --> 01:39:26.160 harm than 01:39:26.160 --> 01:39:26.620 good. 01:39:27.380 --> 01:39:27.620 And so 01:39:27.620 --> 01:39:28.160 listening, 01:39:28.540 --> 01:39:29.260 your experience 01:39:29.260 --> 01:39:29.780 of counseling 01:39:29.780 --> 01:39:30.200 someone, 01:39:30.320 --> 01:39:30.560 of doing 01:39:30.560 --> 01:39:31.340 personal ministry, 01:39:31.780 --> 01:39:32.280 is going to 01:39:32.280 --> 01:39:33.160 be as much 01:39:33.160 --> 01:39:33.960 listening for 01:39:33.960 --> 01:39:34.699 the Lord 01:39:34.699 --> 01:39:36.119 as it is 01:39:36.119 --> 01:39:36.600 listening for 01:39:36.600 --> 01:39:36.840 others. 01:39:37.420 --> 01:39:37.980 And that's 01:39:37.980 --> 01:39:38.560 how you care 01:39:38.560 --> 01:39:39.000 for people. 01:39:39.100 --> 01:39:39.399 I want to 01:39:39.399 --> 01:39:39.899 hear from 01:39:39.899 --> 01:39:40.180 the Lord. 01:39:40.260 --> 01:39:40.520 I want to 01:39:40.520 --> 01:39:41.359 hear how 01:39:41.359 --> 01:39:41.980 God is 01:39:41.980 --> 01:39:42.680 speaking through 01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:43.960 this before 01:39:43.960 --> 01:39:44.560 I speak. 01:39:45.340 --> 01:39:45.980 So we can 01:39:45.980 --> 01:39:46.460 dialogue with 01:39:46.460 --> 01:39:46.779 that if you 01:39:46.779 --> 01:39:47.079 want to, 01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:47.579 but that's a 01:39:47.579 --> 01:39:48.140 very important 01:39:48.140 --> 01:39:48.819 aspect of it. 01:39:48.899 --> 01:39:49.579 We're in a 01:39:49.579 --> 01:39:50.359 trialogue with 01:39:50.359 --> 01:39:50.720 people. 01:39:52.340 --> 01:39:53.100 We also 01:39:53.100 --> 01:39:54.220 listen to 01:39:54.220 --> 01:39:54.680 learn. 01:39:55.699 --> 01:39:56.039 Ed Weld 01:39:56.039 --> 01:39:56.399 said this. 01:39:56.439 --> 01:39:56.600 Some of 01:39:56.600 --> 01:39:56.960 these quotes 01:39:56.960 --> 01:39:57.340 from Ed 01:39:57.340 --> 01:39:58.439 are from 01:39:58.439 --> 01:40:00.260 the counseling 01:40:00.260 --> 01:40:00.880 class I did 01:40:00.880 --> 01:40:01.480 in seminary 01:40:01.479 --> 01:40:02.619 where he was 01:40:02.619 --> 01:40:03.059 just talking 01:40:03.059 --> 01:40:03.339 and I was 01:40:03.339 --> 01:40:03.639 just taking 01:40:03.639 --> 01:40:03.979 notes. 01:40:04.099 --> 01:40:04.319 But Ed 01:40:04.319 --> 01:40:04.819 said this. 01:40:06.199 --> 01:40:06.679 He said, 01:40:07.459 --> 01:40:07.799 are your 01:40:07.799 --> 01:40:08.699 conversations 01:40:08.699 --> 01:40:10.239 dialogues or 01:40:10.239 --> 01:40:10.959 intersecting 01:40:10.959 --> 01:40:11.459 monologues? 01:40:11.479 --> 01:40:11.819 He's talking 01:40:11.819 --> 01:40:12.959 about one-to-one 01:40:12.959 --> 01:40:13.359 counseling. 01:40:14.379 --> 01:40:14.979 Do you 01:40:14.979 --> 01:40:15.599 track? 01:40:16.599 --> 01:40:17.019 Do you 01:40:17.019 --> 01:40:17.319 really 01:40:17.319 --> 01:40:17.859 listen? 01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:19.579 Are your 01:40:19.579 --> 01:40:20.259 comments 01:40:20.259 --> 01:40:20.879 actually 01:40:20.879 --> 01:40:22.619 responding to 01:40:22.619 --> 01:40:22.979 what the 01:40:22.979 --> 01:40:23.639 other person 01:40:23.639 --> 01:40:24.319 said? 01:40:25.159 --> 01:40:25.899 So often 01:40:25.899 --> 01:40:26.639 our comments 01:40:26.639 --> 01:40:27.399 are what we've 01:40:27.399 --> 01:40:27.879 been holding 01:40:27.879 --> 01:40:29.000 on to while 01:40:29.000 --> 01:40:29.419 we've got the 01:40:29.419 --> 01:40:29.899 other person 01:40:29.899 --> 01:40:30.500 drone on and 01:40:30.500 --> 01:40:31.000 on and on. 01:40:31.479 --> 01:40:32.259 We've been 01:40:32.259 --> 01:40:32.879 forming our 01:40:32.879 --> 01:40:33.539 language rather 01:40:33.539 --> 01:40:34.159 than responding 01:40:34.159 --> 01:40:34.599 to what 01:40:34.599 --> 01:40:35.099 they're saying. 01:40:36.679 --> 01:40:37.519 When in 01:40:37.519 --> 01:40:37.819 doubt, 01:40:38.159 --> 01:40:38.939 edit yourself. 01:40:39.939 --> 01:40:40.299 If the 01:40:40.299 --> 01:40:40.839 other person 01:40:40.839 --> 01:40:41.479 is troubled, 01:40:41.819 --> 01:40:42.639 they won't 01:40:42.639 --> 01:40:43.399 hear very 01:40:43.399 --> 01:40:43.899 much. 01:40:44.639 --> 01:40:45.179 Delete 01:40:45.179 --> 01:40:46.359 advice wherever 01:40:46.359 --> 01:40:47.159 possible. 01:40:48.179 --> 01:40:48.679 Let them 01:40:48.679 --> 01:40:49.399 tell the 01:40:49.399 --> 01:40:50.879 story as 01:40:50.879 --> 01:40:52.019 naturally as 01:40:52.019 --> 01:40:52.659 possible. 01:40:53.219 --> 01:40:53.739 Follow 01:40:53.739 --> 01:40:54.199 them. 01:40:54.699 --> 01:40:55.159 Interrupt 01:40:55.159 --> 01:40:56.019 as little as 01:40:56.019 --> 01:40:56.419 possible. 01:40:56.719 --> 01:40:57.319 Even if you 01:40:57.319 --> 01:40:58.159 think that you 01:40:58.159 --> 01:40:58.759 don't get the 01:40:58.759 --> 01:40:59.379 sequence and 01:40:59.379 --> 01:41:00.419 the facts and 01:41:00.419 --> 01:41:01.059 it's confusing 01:41:01.060 --> 01:41:01.520 to you, 01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:02.700 don't worry 01:41:02.700 --> 01:41:03.260 about getting 01:41:03.260 --> 01:41:03.900 all the facts 01:41:03.900 --> 01:41:04.140 down. 01:41:04.280 --> 01:41:04.700 Let them 01:41:04.700 --> 01:41:05.320 tell their 01:41:05.320 --> 01:41:06.380 story in 01:41:06.380 --> 01:41:07.420 an uninterrupted 01:41:07.420 --> 01:41:07.740 way. 01:41:10.060 --> 01:41:10.700 If you 01:41:10.700 --> 01:41:11.200 were asked 01:41:11.200 --> 01:41:11.820 questions, 01:41:11.980 --> 01:41:12.680 especially 01:41:12.680 --> 01:41:13.700 theological 01:41:13.700 --> 01:41:14.600 ones, 01:41:15.740 --> 01:41:18.680 or asked 01:41:18.680 --> 01:41:19.539 for advice, 01:41:20.080 --> 01:41:20.660 first 01:41:20.660 --> 01:41:21.720 understand 01:41:21.720 --> 01:41:22.660 why the 01:41:22.660 --> 01:41:23.380 person is 01:41:23.380 --> 01:41:23.880 asking. 01:41:23.880 --> 01:41:23.940 thing. 01:41:26.020 --> 01:41:26.760 And that's 01:41:26.760 --> 01:41:27.079 a really 01:41:27.079 --> 01:41:27.520 important 01:41:27.520 --> 01:41:27.800 thing. 01:41:27.859 --> 01:41:28.199 When someone 01:41:28.199 --> 01:41:29.140 asks you a 01:41:29.140 --> 01:41:29.560 theological 01:41:29.560 --> 01:41:30.060 question, 01:41:30.180 --> 01:41:30.520 they're not 01:41:30.520 --> 01:41:31.460 rarely looking 01:41:31.460 --> 01:41:32.640 for a 01:41:32.640 --> 01:41:32.840 theological 01:41:32.840 --> 01:41:33.520 answer. 01:41:34.020 --> 01:41:34.500 They're 01:41:34.500 --> 01:41:35.239 expressing a 01:41:35.239 --> 01:41:35.659 theological 01:41:35.659 --> 01:41:36.460 frustration. 01:41:37.920 --> 01:41:38.579 And they 01:41:38.579 --> 01:41:40.020 need help to 01:41:40.020 --> 01:41:40.600 know how to 01:41:40.600 --> 01:41:41.480 get that 01:41:41.480 --> 01:41:42.020 answer from 01:41:42.020 --> 01:41:42.680 God, not 01:41:42.680 --> 01:41:43.239 from you. 01:41:44.640 --> 01:41:45.260 The same 01:41:45.260 --> 01:41:45.779 with advice. 01:41:45.859 --> 01:41:46.279 People looking 01:41:46.279 --> 01:41:47.199 for advice are 01:41:47.199 --> 01:41:47.840 looking for 01:41:47.840 --> 01:41:49.060 fixes that you 01:41:49.060 --> 01:41:49.840 can provide. 01:41:49.840 --> 01:41:54.159 what moves 01:41:54.159 --> 01:41:54.520 you in 01:41:54.520 --> 01:41:55.039 their story? 01:41:55.140 --> 01:41:55.319 You see 01:41:55.319 --> 01:41:55.560 what he's 01:41:55.560 --> 01:41:55.860 saying there? 01:41:55.940 --> 01:41:56.640 What is it 01:41:56.640 --> 01:41:57.619 like to be 01:41:57.619 --> 01:41:58.319 with them? 01:41:59.239 --> 01:41:59.699 Do you 01:41:59.699 --> 01:42:00.680 enjoy or 01:42:00.680 --> 01:42:01.420 value or 01:42:01.420 --> 01:42:02.159 esteem the 01:42:02.159 --> 01:42:02.560 person? 01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:03.140 Are you 01:42:03.140 --> 01:42:03.860 scared of 01:42:03.860 --> 01:42:04.360 the person? 01:42:06.940 --> 01:42:07.539 Can you 01:42:07.539 --> 01:42:08.239 describe the 01:42:08.239 --> 01:42:10.260 person in 01:42:10.260 --> 01:42:10.760 a way that 01:42:10.760 --> 01:42:11.140 the person 01:42:11.140 --> 01:42:11.940 says, 01:42:12.100 --> 01:42:12.539 that's me? 01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:13.100 That's how 01:42:13.100 --> 01:42:13.480 you know 01:42:13.480 --> 01:42:13.920 you've done 01:42:13.920 --> 01:42:14.619 good listening 01:42:14.619 --> 01:42:16.079 is when 01:42:16.079 --> 01:42:17.460 you say to 01:42:17.460 --> 01:42:17.600 them, 01:42:17.680 --> 01:42:18.199 so here's 01:42:18.199 --> 01:42:18.760 what I 01:42:18.760 --> 01:42:19.520 hear you 01:42:19.520 --> 01:42:20.000 saying, 01:42:20.160 --> 01:42:20.600 is this 01:42:20.600 --> 01:42:22.140 what you're 01:42:22.140 --> 01:42:22.540 saying? 01:42:22.700 --> 01:42:22.980 And they 01:42:22.980 --> 01:42:23.520 say, yes, 01:42:23.580 --> 01:42:24.060 that's it. 01:42:24.980 --> 01:42:25.620 Then you've 01:42:25.620 --> 01:42:26.000 done good 01:42:26.000 --> 01:42:26.380 listening. 01:42:26.720 --> 01:42:27.160 But until 01:42:27.160 --> 01:42:27.640 you're able to 01:42:27.640 --> 01:42:28.000 ask that 01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:28.420 question and 01:42:28.420 --> 01:42:28.700 get that 01:42:28.700 --> 01:42:29.080 answer, 01:42:29.440 --> 01:42:29.880 you don't 01:42:29.880 --> 01:42:30.220 know for 01:42:30.220 --> 01:42:30.580 sure if 01:42:30.580 --> 01:42:30.880 you really 01:42:30.880 --> 01:42:31.420 understand. 01:42:32.400 --> 01:42:32.980 We need 01:42:32.980 --> 01:42:33.380 to understand 01:42:33.380 --> 01:42:33.760 the person 01:42:33.760 --> 01:42:34.160 in their 01:42:34.160 --> 01:42:34.600 story. 01:42:36.060 --> 01:42:36.600 What is 01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:37.220 your experience 01:42:37.220 --> 01:42:37.540 when you 01:42:37.540 --> 01:42:38.160 feel someone 01:42:38.160 --> 01:42:38.540 is trying 01:42:38.540 --> 01:42:40.920 to understand 01:42:40.920 --> 01:42:41.540 you? 01:42:42.340 --> 01:42:42.760 Think about 01:42:42.760 --> 01:42:43.380 conversations 01:42:43.380 --> 01:42:43.840 over the 01:42:43.840 --> 01:42:44.480 past year. 01:42:45.220 --> 01:42:45.580 Think about 01:42:45.580 --> 01:42:46.060 conversations 01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:46.680 you've had 01:42:46.680 --> 01:42:47.120 where people 01:42:47.120 --> 01:42:47.760 have not had 01:42:47.760 --> 01:42:48.360 any interest 01:42:48.360 --> 01:42:49.160 in understanding 01:42:49.159 --> 01:42:50.960 you and 01:42:50.960 --> 01:42:51.519 conversations 01:42:51.519 --> 01:42:52.059 you've had 01:42:52.059 --> 01:42:52.500 where people 01:42:52.500 --> 01:42:53.000 have tried 01:42:53.000 --> 01:42:53.539 to understand 01:42:53.539 --> 01:42:54.000 you. 01:42:54.960 --> 01:42:55.639 How does 01:42:55.639 --> 01:42:56.139 that affect 01:42:56.139 --> 01:42:56.859 your soul? 01:42:57.859 --> 01:42:58.159 How does 01:42:58.159 --> 01:42:58.500 that affect 01:42:58.500 --> 01:42:59.119 your desire 01:42:59.119 --> 01:43:00.139 to engage? 01:43:03.220 --> 01:43:04.000 Because we're 01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:04.359 learning. 01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:04.960 So number 01:43:04.960 --> 01:43:06.359 two, we 01:43:06.359 --> 01:43:07.159 speak in 01:43:07.159 --> 01:43:07.859 line with 01:43:07.859 --> 01:43:08.479 the wisdom 01:43:08.479 --> 01:43:09.260 of God. 01:43:09.260 --> 01:43:09.300 God. 01:43:13.300 --> 01:43:13.960 I have 01:43:13.960 --> 01:43:14.380 found over 01:43:14.380 --> 01:43:14.840 the years 01:43:14.840 --> 01:43:15.220 that the 01:43:15.220 --> 01:43:15.860 best place 01:43:15.860 --> 01:43:16.640 to align 01:43:16.640 --> 01:43:17.159 with the 01:43:17.159 --> 01:43:17.739 wisdom of 01:43:17.739 --> 01:43:19.699 God is 01:43:19.699 --> 01:43:20.340 to learn 01:43:20.340 --> 01:43:21.520 three words 01:43:21.520 --> 01:43:22.079 and use 01:43:22.079 --> 01:43:22.720 them often 01:43:22.720 --> 01:43:23.900 and those 01:43:23.900 --> 01:43:24.579 words are 01:43:24.579 --> 01:43:25.420 I don't 01:43:25.420 --> 01:43:25.840 know. 01:43:26.840 --> 01:43:27.619 I don't 01:43:27.619 --> 01:43:28.340 know is 01:43:28.340 --> 01:43:29.199 a universal 01:43:29.199 --> 01:43:30.079 acceptable 01:43:30.079 --> 01:43:30.940 counseling 01:43:30.940 --> 01:43:31.460 answer. 01:43:32.260 --> 01:43:33.199 It works 01:43:33.199 --> 01:43:33.920 in every 01:43:33.920 --> 01:43:34.680 possible 01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:35.579 situation. 01:43:35.579 --> 01:43:38.000 it never 01:43:38.000 --> 01:43:38.680 fails. 01:43:40.399 --> 01:43:40.819 No one 01:43:40.819 --> 01:43:41.340 will ever 01:43:41.340 --> 01:43:42.199 shout at 01:43:42.199 --> 01:43:43.819 you if you 01:43:43.819 --> 01:43:44.220 say I 01:43:44.220 --> 01:43:44.680 don't know. 01:43:45.500 --> 01:43:45.979 No one 01:43:45.979 --> 01:43:46.479 will ever 01:43:46.479 --> 01:43:47.380 treat you 01:43:47.380 --> 01:43:48.380 like you're 01:43:48.380 --> 01:43:49.319 mistreating 01:43:49.319 --> 01:43:50.380 them by 01:43:50.380 --> 01:43:50.939 saying I 01:43:50.939 --> 01:43:51.239 don't know. 01:43:51.479 --> 01:43:52.000 No one 01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:52.399 will ever 01:43:52.399 --> 01:43:53.260 say you're 01:43:53.260 --> 01:43:53.779 controlling 01:43:53.779 --> 01:43:54.699 them when 01:43:54.699 --> 01:43:55.140 you say I 01:43:55.140 --> 01:43:55.439 don't know. 01:43:55.680 --> 01:43:56.140 No one 01:43:56.140 --> 01:43:56.659 will say 01:43:56.659 --> 01:43:57.319 that you're 01:43:57.319 --> 01:43:57.939 being harsh 01:43:57.939 --> 01:43:58.460 to them 01:43:58.460 --> 01:43:59.199 when you 01:43:59.199 --> 01:43:59.539 say I 01:43:59.539 --> 01:43:59.979 don't know. 01:44:01.539 --> 01:44:02.479 We need 01:44:02.479 --> 01:44:02.920 to have 01:44:02.920 --> 01:44:03.100 that. 01:44:03.100 --> 01:44:03.560 I want 01:44:03.560 --> 01:44:03.880 you to 01:44:03.880 --> 01:44:04.660 practice 01:44:04.660 --> 01:44:05.740 I don't 01:44:05.740 --> 01:44:07.460 know in 01:44:07.460 --> 01:44:07.960 your home. 01:44:09.340 --> 01:44:09.880 I want 01:44:09.880 --> 01:44:10.079 you to 01:44:10.079 --> 01:44:10.640 practice it 01:44:10.640 --> 01:44:11.300 on text. 01:44:12.420 --> 01:44:12.880 I don't 01:44:12.880 --> 01:44:13.160 know. 01:44:14.460 --> 01:44:15.440 Get used 01:44:15.440 --> 01:44:15.780 to it. 01:44:15.840 --> 01:44:16.079 It will 01:44:16.079 --> 01:44:16.880 serve you 01:44:16.880 --> 01:44:17.940 so well 01:44:17.940 --> 01:44:19.400 because what 01:44:19.400 --> 01:44:20.000 is it doing? 01:44:20.340 --> 01:44:21.300 Is it saying 01:44:21.300 --> 01:44:22.280 I don't 01:44:22.280 --> 01:44:23.460 know but 01:44:23.460 --> 01:44:23.920 there must 01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:24.539 be somebody 01:44:24.539 --> 01:44:25.160 who does. 01:44:26.720 --> 01:44:27.360 And you're 01:44:27.360 --> 01:44:27.800 not preaching 01:44:27.800 --> 01:44:28.140 in it. 01:44:28.520 --> 01:44:28.980 You're just 01:44:28.980 --> 01:44:29.660 saying there's 01:44:29.660 --> 01:44:30.700 a void here 01:44:30.700 --> 01:44:32.039 that I can't 01:44:32.039 --> 01:44:32.420 fill. 01:44:33.100 --> 01:44:34.079 And that 01:44:34.079 --> 01:44:35.160 void creates 01:44:35.160 --> 01:44:35.960 the opportunity 01:44:35.960 --> 01:44:36.720 for wisdom 01:44:36.720 --> 01:44:37.360 from God. 01:44:39.140 --> 01:44:39.840 The fear 01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:40.440 of the Lord 01:44:40.440 --> 01:44:40.920 is the 01:44:40.920 --> 01:44:41.539 beginning of 01:44:41.539 --> 01:44:41.860 wisdom. 01:44:42.000 --> 01:44:42.400 By saying 01:44:42.400 --> 01:44:42.760 I don't 01:44:42.760 --> 01:44:43.840 know we're 01:44:43.840 --> 01:44:44.660 acknowledging we 01:44:44.660 --> 01:44:45.420 truly aren't 01:44:45.420 --> 01:44:46.060 omniscient. 01:44:46.440 --> 01:44:46.880 We truly 01:44:46.880 --> 01:44:47.539 don't know 01:44:47.539 --> 01:44:48.020 everything. 01:44:49.200 --> 01:44:49.600 And so we 01:44:49.600 --> 01:44:50.380 give room for 01:44:50.380 --> 01:44:50.760 the wisdom 01:44:50.760 --> 01:44:51.420 of God 01:44:51.420 --> 01:44:52.460 to happen. 01:44:52.620 --> 01:44:53.240 And so there 01:44:53.240 --> 01:44:53.520 are very 01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:54.480 practical implications 01:44:54.480 --> 01:44:55.920 to this. 01:44:56.400 --> 01:44:57.360 As we speak 01:44:57.360 --> 01:44:57.740 and now we're 01:44:57.740 --> 01:44:58.120 talking about 01:44:58.120 --> 01:44:58.380 speaking. 01:44:58.500 --> 01:44:58.680 We're not 01:44:58.680 --> 01:44:59.160 just listening. 01:44:59.280 --> 01:44:59.600 We're actually 01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:00.020 speaking. 01:45:00.160 --> 01:45:00.500 Now we're in 01:45:00.500 --> 01:45:01.100 the place where 01:45:01.100 --> 01:45:02.320 we get a 01:45:02.320 --> 01:45:02.700 chance to 01:45:02.700 --> 01:45:03.079 share. 01:45:03.579 --> 01:45:03.920 We want 01:45:03.920 --> 01:45:04.320 to speak 01:45:04.320 --> 01:45:05.020 softly. 01:45:08.120 --> 01:45:08.680 In other 01:45:08.680 --> 01:45:08.980 words we 01:45:08.980 --> 01:45:09.360 don't want 01:45:09.360 --> 01:45:09.640 to come 01:45:09.640 --> 01:45:10.220 across 01:45:10.220 --> 01:45:10.860 aggressively. 01:45:11.120 --> 01:45:11.320 We don't 01:45:11.320 --> 01:45:11.500 want to 01:45:11.500 --> 01:45:12.060 come across 01:45:12.060 --> 01:45:12.520 shrill. 01:45:12.760 --> 01:45:13.000 We don't 01:45:13.000 --> 01:45:13.180 want to 01:45:13.180 --> 01:45:14.020 come across 01:45:14.020 --> 01:45:14.480 overly 01:45:14.480 --> 01:45:15.000 emotional. 01:45:15.420 --> 01:45:15.720 We want 01:45:15.720 --> 01:45:16.160 to speak 01:45:16.160 --> 01:45:17.000 calmly to 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:17.340 people. 01:45:18.660 --> 01:45:19.200 We don't 01:45:19.200 --> 01:45:19.440 want to 01:45:19.440 --> 01:45:19.940 use 01:45:19.940 --> 01:45:20.660 intensity 01:45:20.660 --> 01:45:22.560 to manipulate. 01:45:23.860 --> 01:45:24.260 We want 01:45:24.260 --> 01:45:24.640 someone to 01:45:24.640 --> 01:45:25.020 feel like 01:45:25.020 --> 01:45:25.780 we're 01:45:25.780 --> 01:45:26.280 responding 01:45:26.280 --> 01:45:26.860 even to 01:45:26.860 --> 01:45:27.079 their 01:45:27.079 --> 01:45:27.620 intensity 01:45:27.620 --> 01:45:28.880 with calm. 01:45:29.480 --> 01:45:29.740 So you 01:45:29.740 --> 01:45:29.960 could say 01:45:29.960 --> 01:45:30.560 let's speak 01:45:30.560 --> 01:45:31.100 calmly. 01:45:31.100 --> 01:45:33.020 What that 01:45:33.020 --> 01:45:33.400 does is 01:45:33.400 --> 01:45:33.940 it communicates 01:45:33.940 --> 01:45:34.400 I don't 01:45:34.400 --> 01:45:35.420 know but 01:45:35.420 --> 01:45:36.000 I care. 01:45:37.079 --> 01:45:38.020 I care about 01:45:38.020 --> 01:45:38.280 you. 01:45:41.960 --> 01:45:42.720 Again it's 01:45:42.720 --> 01:45:43.579 almost impossible 01:45:43.579 --> 01:45:44.160 to speak 01:45:44.160 --> 01:45:44.980 softly through 01:45:44.980 --> 01:45:45.480 text. 01:45:46.480 --> 01:45:47.420 Text is at 01:45:47.420 --> 01:45:48.579 best flat 01:45:48.579 --> 01:45:49.620 communication 01:45:49.620 --> 01:45:50.720 with no 01:45:50.720 --> 01:45:51.260 inflection. 01:45:52.260 --> 01:45:53.000 Unless you 01:45:53.000 --> 01:45:53.740 put emojis to 01:45:53.740 --> 01:45:54.120 it and those 01:45:54.120 --> 01:45:54.620 never work. 01:45:54.619 --> 01:45:57.019 my one 01:45:57.019 --> 01:45:57.420 emoji 01:45:57.420 --> 01:45:57.720 I 01:45:57.720 --> 01:46:01.920 it's a 01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:02.739 problem of 01:46:02.739 --> 01:46:03.599 needing to 01:46:03.599 --> 01:46:04.220 wear your 01:46:04.220 --> 01:46:04.899 reading glasses 01:46:04.899 --> 01:46:05.319 more than 01:46:05.319 --> 01:46:05.899 you do. 01:46:07.500 --> 01:46:08.359 So somebody 01:46:08.359 --> 01:46:08.840 texted me 01:46:08.840 --> 01:46:09.239 something that 01:46:09.239 --> 01:46:09.920 was very 01:46:09.920 --> 01:46:13.539 sensitive and 01:46:13.539 --> 01:46:14.059 it was something 01:46:14.059 --> 01:46:14.519 they were really 01:46:14.519 --> 01:46:15.119 going through. 01:46:15.899 --> 01:46:16.319 And I was in 01:46:16.319 --> 01:46:16.680 the middle of 01:46:16.680 --> 01:46:17.399 something and 01:46:17.399 --> 01:46:17.720 we have the 01:46:17.720 --> 01:46:17.899 kind of 01:46:17.899 --> 01:46:18.699 relationship where 01:46:18.699 --> 01:46:19.739 I don't 01:46:19.739 --> 01:46:21.000 but I 01:46:21.000 --> 01:46:21.439 wanted to 01:46:21.439 --> 01:46:21.920 let them 01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:22.239 know I 01:46:22.239 --> 01:46:22.739 got it. 01:46:23.399 --> 01:46:23.899 And so I 01:46:23.899 --> 01:46:25.619 pushed that 01:46:25.619 --> 01:46:27.899 emoji thing 01:46:27.899 --> 01:46:28.519 that has the 01:46:28.519 --> 01:46:29.800 tear just 01:46:29.800 --> 01:46:30.119 letting them 01:46:30.119 --> 01:46:30.639 know I was 01:46:30.639 --> 01:46:31.179 feeling it. 01:46:31.559 --> 01:46:32.179 But I 01:46:32.179 --> 01:46:32.979 missed it and 01:46:32.979 --> 01:46:33.519 I pushed the 01:46:33.519 --> 01:46:33.920 one that was 01:46:33.920 --> 01:46:34.519 winking at 01:46:34.519 --> 01:46:34.719 him. 01:46:37.219 --> 01:46:38.619 Which was 01:46:38.619 --> 01:46:39.599 highly inappropriate 01:46:39.599 --> 01:46:40.420 in the moment. 01:46:41.559 --> 01:46:42.920 And I 01:46:42.920 --> 01:46:43.199 should have 01:46:43.199 --> 01:46:43.519 used my 01:46:43.519 --> 01:46:44.139 glasses to 01:46:44.139 --> 01:46:44.559 make sure I 01:46:44.559 --> 01:46:44.979 chose the 01:46:44.979 --> 01:46:45.460 right one. 01:46:45.460 --> 01:46:49.300 So yeah, 01:46:49.699 --> 01:46:50.180 be careful 01:46:50.180 --> 01:46:50.659 with emojis. 01:46:51.939 --> 01:46:52.680 Let's speak 01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:53.239 humbly. 01:46:54.680 --> 01:46:55.300 We don't 01:46:55.300 --> 01:46:55.819 want to assume 01:46:55.819 --> 01:46:56.439 we've got the 01:46:56.439 --> 01:46:56.720 answers. 01:46:56.800 --> 01:46:57.159 We've talked 01:46:57.159 --> 01:46:57.539 about that 01:46:57.539 --> 01:46:57.980 before. 01:47:00.439 --> 01:47:01.119 Again, we've 01:47:01.119 --> 01:47:01.539 talked about 01:47:01.539 --> 01:47:02.300 the problem 01:47:02.300 --> 01:47:02.960 of comparing 01:47:02.960 --> 01:47:03.819 experiences. 01:47:06.300 --> 01:47:07.140 There is a 01:47:07.140 --> 01:47:07.739 way to do 01:47:07.739 --> 01:47:08.079 that. 01:47:09.880 --> 01:47:10.640 If you've 01:47:10.640 --> 01:47:11.920 gotten, if 01:47:11.920 --> 01:47:12.060 you're 01:47:12.060 --> 01:47:12.680 interacting with 01:47:12.680 --> 01:47:14.939 someone and 01:47:14.939 --> 01:47:16.219 you're at 01:47:16.219 --> 01:47:16.779 the point in 01:47:16.779 --> 01:47:17.579 the conversation 01:47:17.579 --> 01:47:19.000 where their 01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:20.279 struggle, their 01:47:20.279 --> 01:47:21.479 situation is 01:47:21.479 --> 01:47:23.139 three-dimensionally 01:47:23.139 --> 01:47:25.299 in play and 01:47:25.299 --> 01:47:26.239 you're dialoguing 01:47:26.239 --> 01:47:27.039 over it and 01:47:27.039 --> 01:47:27.839 they've allowed 01:47:27.839 --> 01:47:28.979 you into it, 01:47:29.819 --> 01:47:30.759 I think there's 01:47:30.759 --> 01:47:31.339 a way to say, 01:47:31.439 --> 01:47:31.859 now listen, 01:47:33.000 --> 01:47:36.279 this reminds me 01:47:36.279 --> 01:47:37.000 of something I 01:47:37.000 --> 01:47:37.899 felt when I 01:47:37.899 --> 01:47:38.359 went through 01:47:38.359 --> 01:47:38.599 this. 01:47:38.699 --> 01:47:39.179 I know it's 01:47:39.179 --> 01:47:39.559 different. 01:47:39.960 --> 01:47:40.599 I don't want 01:47:40.599 --> 01:47:41.139 you to think I 01:47:41.139 --> 01:47:42.299 understand that 01:47:42.299 --> 01:47:42.899 what I experience 01:47:42.899 --> 01:47:43.259 is what you 01:47:43.259 --> 01:47:43.619 experience. 01:47:43.619 --> 01:47:44.899 but this is 01:47:44.899 --> 01:47:45.760 how it affected 01:47:45.760 --> 01:47:46.300 me. 01:47:47.279 --> 01:47:48.159 Does that make 01:47:48.159 --> 01:47:49.519 any sense to 01:47:49.519 --> 01:47:49.800 you? 01:47:50.519 --> 01:47:51.739 What are you 01:47:51.739 --> 01:47:52.239 doing there? 01:47:52.439 --> 01:47:52.800 You're not 01:47:52.800 --> 01:47:53.420 saying I know 01:47:53.420 --> 01:47:54.039 your experience, 01:47:54.119 --> 01:47:55.099 you're saying I 01:47:55.099 --> 01:47:58.260 had this response 01:47:58.260 --> 01:47:59.479 to something and 01:47:59.479 --> 01:48:00.019 I'm trying to 01:48:00.019 --> 01:48:00.819 better understand 01:48:00.819 --> 01:48:01.659 your response. 01:48:01.819 --> 01:48:03.019 Is my response 01:48:03.019 --> 01:48:04.119 similar to your 01:48:04.119 --> 01:48:04.619 response? 01:48:05.159 --> 01:48:06.039 So your situation 01:48:06.039 --> 01:48:06.599 might have been 01:48:06.599 --> 01:48:08.260 fairly minor and 01:48:08.260 --> 01:48:08.920 you can say that, 01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:09.880 listen, it was 01:48:09.880 --> 01:48:10.519 not what you 01:48:10.519 --> 01:48:10.739 dealt. 01:48:10.819 --> 01:48:11.579 My loss was 01:48:11.579 --> 01:48:12.180 not what your 01:48:12.180 --> 01:48:12.779 loss was, 01:48:13.059 --> 01:48:13.880 but I remember 01:48:13.880 --> 01:48:16.899 feeling that I 01:48:16.899 --> 01:48:17.479 walked into 01:48:17.479 --> 01:48:19.640 rooms and 01:48:19.640 --> 01:48:22.019 nobody cared 01:48:22.019 --> 01:48:24.059 about what I 01:48:24.059 --> 01:48:24.399 was going 01:48:24.399 --> 01:48:24.720 through. 01:48:26.439 --> 01:48:27.479 Does that make 01:48:27.479 --> 01:48:28.260 any sense? 01:48:28.380 --> 01:48:28.899 Is that what 01:48:28.899 --> 01:48:29.300 you're, yeah, 01:48:29.359 --> 01:48:29.800 that's what I'm 01:48:29.800 --> 01:48:30.319 experiencing. 01:48:31.439 --> 01:48:32.019 Okay, that's 01:48:32.019 --> 01:48:32.699 helpful to me. 01:48:32.760 --> 01:48:33.319 Now I feel like 01:48:33.319 --> 01:48:34.939 I understand better 01:48:34.939 --> 01:48:35.640 what you're talking 01:48:35.640 --> 01:48:35.899 about. 01:48:36.119 --> 01:48:37.079 You can draw on 01:48:37.079 --> 01:48:37.640 your experience, 01:48:37.739 --> 01:48:38.399 but you can't 01:48:38.399 --> 01:48:39.119 overlay your 01:48:39.119 --> 01:48:39.739 experience onto 01:48:39.739 --> 01:48:40.340 someone else's 01:48:40.340 --> 01:48:40.800 experience. 01:48:41.579 --> 01:48:43.159 You can draw 01:48:43.159 --> 01:48:43.600 on it by 01:48:43.600 --> 01:48:44.500 drawing on the 01:48:44.500 --> 01:48:45.479 feelings or 01:48:45.479 --> 01:48:46.479 even your 01:48:46.479 --> 01:48:47.019 responses. 01:48:47.300 --> 01:48:48.519 You know, I 01:48:48.519 --> 01:48:48.920 had something 01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:49.479 happen to me 01:48:49.479 --> 01:48:50.180 one time where 01:48:50.180 --> 01:48:50.760 someone did 01:48:50.760 --> 01:48:52.100 this and, you 01:48:52.100 --> 01:48:53.739 know, I think 01:48:53.739 --> 01:48:54.119 you may have 01:48:54.119 --> 01:48:54.640 responded much 01:48:54.640 --> 01:48:55.279 better than I 01:48:55.279 --> 01:48:55.519 did. 01:48:55.619 --> 01:48:56.220 I responded 01:48:56.220 --> 01:48:56.659 this way because 01:48:56.659 --> 01:48:57.939 I was struggling 01:48:57.939 --> 01:48:58.539 with this. 01:48:58.600 --> 01:48:59.039 Does that make 01:48:59.039 --> 01:48:59.479 any sense? 01:48:59.840 --> 01:49:00.359 And you let 01:49:00.359 --> 01:49:01.380 them tell you 01:49:01.380 --> 01:49:02.100 whether or not 01:49:02.100 --> 01:49:02.699 it fits or 01:49:02.699 --> 01:49:03.000 not. 01:49:04.399 --> 01:49:05.279 It's a way you 01:49:05.279 --> 01:49:05.800 can use your 01:49:05.800 --> 01:49:06.159 experience. 01:49:06.239 --> 01:49:06.559 You want to be 01:49:06.559 --> 01:49:07.359 very careful with 01:49:07.359 --> 01:49:07.579 this. 01:49:08.260 --> 01:49:08.640 We want to 01:49:08.640 --> 01:49:09.500 speak clearly. 01:49:09.500 --> 01:49:11.720 Very important. 01:49:11.979 --> 01:49:13.119 Communication happens 01:49:13.119 --> 01:49:14.520 with reception, 01:49:14.939 --> 01:49:16.220 not delivery. 01:49:17.359 --> 01:49:18.300 Just because we 01:49:18.300 --> 01:49:19.000 think we've been 01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:19.899 clear is not the 01:49:19.899 --> 01:49:21.479 same as having 01:49:21.479 --> 01:49:22.279 good communication. 01:49:22.479 --> 01:49:22.819 Again, Ed 01:49:22.819 --> 01:49:23.659 Welch says this, 01:49:24.500 --> 01:49:25.399 very, very 01:49:25.399 --> 01:49:26.239 helpful insight. 01:49:26.920 --> 01:49:27.960 Why don't people 01:49:27.960 --> 01:49:29.279 follow through with 01:49:29.279 --> 01:49:29.979 advice? 01:49:29.979 --> 01:49:32.060 Is it because they're 01:49:32.060 --> 01:49:32.840 unteachable? 01:49:32.979 --> 01:49:33.500 Perhaps. 01:49:33.500 --> 01:49:33.619 advice. 01:49:34.819 --> 01:49:36.060 But more likely, 01:49:36.220 --> 01:49:37.119 the advice may 01:49:37.119 --> 01:49:38.819 be good, but it 01:49:38.819 --> 01:49:39.960 may not be in 01:49:39.960 --> 01:49:41.380 sync with what 01:49:41.380 --> 01:49:42.600 the Lord is 01:49:42.600 --> 01:49:43.500 doing in a 01:49:43.500 --> 01:49:44.439 person's life. 01:49:45.260 --> 01:49:45.920 We need to 01:49:45.920 --> 01:49:46.979 recognize that we 01:49:46.979 --> 01:49:48.399 may have accurate 01:49:48.399 --> 01:49:50.039 things to say, 01:49:50.720 --> 01:49:52.199 but they may not 01:49:52.199 --> 01:49:53.220 be relevant. 01:49:54.640 --> 01:49:55.479 Underline that. 01:49:55.600 --> 01:49:56.420 That's hugely 01:49:56.420 --> 01:49:57.000 important. 01:49:57.619 --> 01:49:58.300 You can be 01:49:58.300 --> 01:49:59.979 accurate, but not 01:49:59.979 --> 01:50:02.479 relevant to a 01:50:02.479 --> 01:50:03.559 person's situation. 01:50:04.379 --> 01:50:05.299 And if we have 01:50:05.299 --> 01:50:06.359 accurate and 01:50:06.359 --> 01:50:07.419 relevant things to 01:50:07.419 --> 01:50:08.739 say, we need to 01:50:08.739 --> 01:50:09.559 say them in a 01:50:09.559 --> 01:50:10.579 helpful way. 01:50:11.219 --> 01:50:11.799 If we give 01:50:11.799 --> 01:50:13.919 advice, we need 01:50:13.919 --> 01:50:14.599 to give advice 01:50:14.599 --> 01:50:15.479 that serves the 01:50:15.479 --> 01:50:16.599 person in how 01:50:16.599 --> 01:50:18.339 they process, not 01:50:18.339 --> 01:50:19.259 how we process. 01:50:20.139 --> 01:50:20.739 How do you 01:50:20.739 --> 01:50:21.459 respond to someone 01:50:21.459 --> 01:50:22.319 who comes back to 01:50:22.319 --> 01:50:23.559 you having not 01:50:23.559 --> 01:50:24.659 responded to your 01:50:24.659 --> 01:50:26.239 counsel, may say 01:50:26.239 --> 01:50:27.299 as much about your 01:50:27.299 --> 01:50:28.799 confidence in your 01:50:28.799 --> 01:50:30.279 counsel as it does 01:50:30.279 --> 01:50:31.099 about their desire 01:50:31.100 --> 01:50:31.620 to apply? 01:50:31.740 --> 01:50:32.420 Isn't that true? 01:50:33.120 --> 01:50:33.920 If they haven't 01:50:33.920 --> 01:50:34.440 done what you 01:50:34.440 --> 01:50:36.160 thought, you may 01:50:36.160 --> 01:50:36.620 think you're 01:50:36.620 --> 01:50:37.700 absolutely clear and 01:50:37.700 --> 01:50:38.660 they're just ignoring 01:50:38.660 --> 01:50:38.840 it. 01:50:38.920 --> 01:50:39.480 Maybe you weren't 01:50:39.480 --> 01:50:40.000 that clear. 01:50:40.440 --> 01:50:41.740 Or maybe you gave 01:50:41.740 --> 01:50:42.520 them an impossible 01:50:42.520 --> 01:50:43.140 assignment. 01:50:44.880 --> 01:50:45.820 The focus of 01:50:45.820 --> 01:50:46.660 advice should be 01:50:46.660 --> 01:50:48.020 what God is up to 01:50:48.020 --> 01:50:49.440 and what a person 01:50:49.440 --> 01:50:49.900 can hear. 01:50:49.980 --> 01:50:50.380 That's what I'm 01:50:50.380 --> 01:50:50.880 always trying to 01:50:50.880 --> 01:50:52.400 filter down to. 01:50:52.780 --> 01:50:53.520 What do I think 01:50:53.520 --> 01:50:54.680 God is up to here? 01:50:55.240 --> 01:50:56.579 Can I speak into 01:50:56.579 --> 01:50:56.960 that? 01:50:57.220 --> 01:50:57.880 And what are they 01:50:57.880 --> 01:50:58.920 capable of? 01:50:58.920 --> 01:51:01.020 And I've got 01:51:01.020 --> 01:51:01.579 folks in my 01:51:01.579 --> 01:51:02.079 church who are 01:51:02.079 --> 01:51:02.840 capable at any 01:51:02.840 --> 01:51:03.520 point in time of 01:51:03.520 --> 01:51:05.039 very little change. 01:51:06.100 --> 01:51:06.739 And so I don't 01:51:06.739 --> 01:51:07.399 want to hold out. 01:51:07.460 --> 01:51:07.960 Well, listen, you 01:51:07.960 --> 01:51:09.000 need to do this. 01:51:10.140 --> 01:51:10.760 Let's say, for 01:51:10.760 --> 01:51:12.079 example, I'll give 01:51:12.079 --> 01:51:12.920 you one thing I do. 01:51:13.440 --> 01:51:14.440 Someone is 01:51:14.440 --> 01:51:15.260 struggling spiritually 01:51:15.260 --> 01:51:15.920 and you can 01:51:15.920 --> 01:51:16.859 identify that 01:51:16.859 --> 01:51:19.340 their struggle, 01:51:20.159 --> 01:51:21.319 well, among other 01:51:21.319 --> 01:51:21.859 things, they have 01:51:21.859 --> 01:51:23.140 no devotional life. 01:51:24.020 --> 01:51:25.220 They're just not 01:51:25.220 --> 01:51:26.279 having a devotional 01:51:26.279 --> 01:51:26.560 life. 01:51:26.560 --> 01:51:28.140 And so what you 01:51:28.140 --> 01:51:28.960 want to do is you 01:51:28.960 --> 01:51:29.420 want to say, well, 01:51:29.420 --> 01:51:30.260 listen, get your 01:51:30.260 --> 01:51:31.240 Bible, I want you 01:51:31.240 --> 01:51:31.780 to start reading 01:51:31.780 --> 01:51:33.020 every day, and I 01:51:33.020 --> 01:51:33.800 want you to pray, 01:51:34.320 --> 01:51:35.400 and they'll say, 01:51:35.480 --> 01:51:36.600 yep, sign me up, 01:51:36.760 --> 01:51:37.700 and they get two 01:51:37.700 --> 01:51:38.300 days in and they're 01:51:38.300 --> 01:51:38.500 done. 01:51:39.580 --> 01:51:39.840 Right? 01:51:41.060 --> 01:51:41.980 You don't build 01:51:41.980 --> 01:51:43.220 any habits that 01:51:43.220 --> 01:51:43.580 way. 01:51:44.660 --> 01:51:45.160 So what I've 01:51:45.160 --> 01:51:45.600 learned to tell 01:51:45.600 --> 01:51:47.220 people is I call 01:51:47.220 --> 01:51:48.820 it my 5-5-5 plan. 01:51:50.380 --> 01:51:51.220 If somebody's in 01:51:51.220 --> 01:51:52.380 that case, even if 01:51:52.380 --> 01:51:52.960 they are doing some 01:51:52.960 --> 01:51:53.800 devotions, I say, 01:51:53.900 --> 01:51:54.580 listen, let's try 01:51:54.580 --> 01:51:54.920 this. 01:51:54.920 --> 01:51:56.539 Why don't you, 01:51:56.880 --> 01:51:57.460 whatever you're 01:51:57.460 --> 01:51:59.739 doing, reading, do 01:51:59.739 --> 01:52:01.300 five minutes more a 01:52:01.300 --> 01:52:04.199 day, five days a 01:52:04.199 --> 01:52:05.940 week, for five 01:52:05.940 --> 01:52:06.340 weeks. 01:52:07.659 --> 01:52:08.560 See if you can do 01:52:08.560 --> 01:52:08.819 that. 01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:09.699 Five minutes more. 01:52:09.779 --> 01:52:10.300 So if you're doing 01:52:10.300 --> 01:52:13.000 nothing, five minutes. 01:52:13.600 --> 01:52:14.500 But try to do it 01:52:14.500 --> 01:52:15.300 five days. 01:52:16.600 --> 01:52:17.159 And if you can do 01:52:17.159 --> 01:52:18.100 it five days, try to 01:52:18.100 --> 01:52:18.960 do it for five weeks. 01:52:18.960 --> 01:52:20.720 I've never had 01:52:20.720 --> 01:52:21.539 somebody come back 01:52:21.539 --> 01:52:22.960 to me who has 01:52:22.960 --> 01:52:24.100 actually tried to do 01:52:24.100 --> 01:52:25.779 that and not said, 01:52:25.859 --> 01:52:26.439 I think for the 01:52:26.439 --> 01:52:27.119 first time I'm 01:52:27.119 --> 01:52:28.039 finally starting to 01:52:28.039 --> 01:52:28.920 get some sense of 01:52:28.920 --> 01:52:29.480 what it means to 01:52:29.480 --> 01:52:30.119 have a devotional 01:52:30.119 --> 01:52:30.420 life. 01:52:32.460 --> 01:52:33.180 I'm giving them 01:52:33.180 --> 01:52:33.640 five days. 01:52:33.699 --> 01:52:34.020 They have two 01:52:34.020 --> 01:52:34.699 days to blow. 01:52:35.960 --> 01:52:37.119 And I'm giving 01:52:37.119 --> 01:52:37.840 five minutes, which 01:52:37.840 --> 01:52:38.579 means they can do 01:52:38.579 --> 01:52:39.680 it on their phone 01:52:39.680 --> 01:52:44.000 at some traffic 01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:44.359 lights. 01:52:44.359 --> 01:52:46.359 I don't 01:52:46.359 --> 01:52:46.539 necessarily 01:52:46.539 --> 01:52:47.559 recommend, but 01:52:47.559 --> 01:52:48.000 they could. 01:52:48.239 --> 01:52:48.859 And I'm okay with 01:52:48.859 --> 01:52:49.039 that. 01:52:49.460 --> 01:52:50.139 That level of 01:52:50.139 --> 01:52:51.059 intentionality to me 01:52:51.059 --> 01:52:52.519 is good habit for 01:52:52.519 --> 01:52:52.679 me. 01:52:53.399 --> 01:52:54.439 And then five 01:52:54.439 --> 01:52:55.219 weeks, I feel like 01:52:55.219 --> 01:52:56.339 if you give it five 01:52:56.339 --> 01:52:57.019 weeks, you're going 01:52:57.019 --> 01:52:57.679 to develop something 01:52:57.679 --> 01:52:58.399 in five weeks. 01:52:58.460 --> 01:52:58.719 It's going to 01:52:58.719 --> 01:52:59.199 become something. 01:52:59.500 --> 01:53:00.219 And what I found, 01:53:00.319 --> 01:53:01.500 frankly, is most 01:53:01.500 --> 01:53:02.279 people are no longer 01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:03.699 satisfied with five 01:53:03.699 --> 01:53:03.960 minutes. 01:53:04.619 --> 01:53:05.420 They're cheating. 01:53:06.079 --> 01:53:06.679 They're going up to 01:53:06.679 --> 01:53:07.539 like seven or eight 01:53:07.539 --> 01:53:07.839 minutes. 01:53:08.739 --> 01:53:09.139 And I'm like, 01:53:09.199 --> 01:53:10.019 whoa, back down, 01:53:10.099 --> 01:53:10.439 man. 01:53:11.699 --> 01:53:12.599 That's too much. 01:53:14.359 --> 01:53:15.599 But it's a way to 01:53:15.599 --> 01:53:16.579 sort of help people 01:53:16.579 --> 01:53:17.500 do manageable 01:53:17.500 --> 01:53:18.839 change. 01:53:24.460 --> 01:53:25.579 Speak truthfully. 01:53:27.920 --> 01:53:28.859 Here's a concern I 01:53:28.859 --> 01:53:30.559 have for folks, is 01:53:30.559 --> 01:53:31.759 we take a shot with 01:53:31.759 --> 01:53:33.739 the gospel, and 01:53:33.739 --> 01:53:34.739 then when you get 01:53:34.739 --> 01:53:37.099 a blank stare, you 01:53:37.099 --> 01:53:38.639 just revert to 01:53:38.639 --> 01:53:39.639 practical advice. 01:53:41.199 --> 01:53:42.199 I think what we 01:53:42.199 --> 01:53:43.099 want to do is treat 01:53:43.100 --> 01:53:45.420 the gospel, and 01:53:45.420 --> 01:53:45.880 first of all, we 01:53:45.880 --> 01:53:46.900 want to contextualize 01:53:46.900 --> 01:53:47.579 it for people, not 01:53:47.579 --> 01:53:48.020 just say, you 01:53:48.020 --> 01:53:48.280 know, remember 01:53:48.280 --> 01:53:48.940 Jesus died for 01:53:48.940 --> 01:53:49.320 your sins. 01:53:50.360 --> 01:53:51.079 One of the things I 01:53:51.079 --> 01:53:51.860 encourage people to 01:53:51.860 --> 01:53:52.700 do who do ministry 01:53:52.700 --> 01:53:54.880 is explore the 01:53:54.880 --> 01:53:55.740 avenues of the 01:53:55.740 --> 01:53:56.440 gospel through 01:53:56.440 --> 01:53:57.160 things like, what 01:53:57.160 --> 01:53:58.360 is reconciliation? 01:53:58.900 --> 01:54:00.000 I wrote two 01:54:00.000 --> 01:54:02.480 books, partly 01:54:02.480 --> 01:54:03.020 because I have a 01:54:03.020 --> 01:54:03.640 burden that the 01:54:03.640 --> 01:54:04.340 gospel isn't 01:54:04.340 --> 01:54:05.280 necessarily always 01:54:05.280 --> 01:54:06.180 applied helpfully, 01:54:06.280 --> 01:54:06.840 so I wrote a book 01:54:06.840 --> 01:54:07.660 called Real Peace, 01:54:08.140 --> 01:54:09.340 which is if we just 01:54:09.340 --> 01:54:10.320 take the aspect of 01:54:10.320 --> 01:54:11.079 the gospel that's 01:54:11.079 --> 01:54:12.060 reconciliation with 01:54:12.060 --> 01:54:13.020 Christ, and we 01:54:13.020 --> 01:54:13.700 applied it to 01:54:13.700 --> 01:54:14.660 complex problems, 01:54:14.840 --> 01:54:15.539 what would that 01:54:15.539 --> 01:54:16.020 look like? 01:54:16.240 --> 01:54:16.840 How could that 01:54:16.840 --> 01:54:17.140 work? 01:54:17.460 --> 01:54:17.960 And then I did 01:54:17.960 --> 01:54:18.760 one called Trapped, 01:54:19.360 --> 01:54:20.560 where if we took 01:54:20.560 --> 01:54:22.580 a complex problems 01:54:22.580 --> 01:54:23.800 and we applied the 01:54:23.800 --> 01:54:24.600 gospel of redemption, 01:54:24.760 --> 01:54:27.260 we are set free to 01:54:27.260 --> 01:54:27.900 serve Jesus. 01:54:28.340 --> 01:54:29.840 How does that affect 01:54:29.840 --> 01:54:30.380 those things? 01:54:30.680 --> 01:54:31.600 The whole point was 01:54:31.600 --> 01:54:33.039 just exercises and 01:54:33.039 --> 01:54:33.600 how can we 01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:34.460 particularize the 01:54:34.460 --> 01:54:35.900 gospel into people's 01:54:35.900 --> 01:54:36.240 problems? 01:54:36.720 --> 01:54:37.780 We want to do that. 01:54:38.380 --> 01:54:38.740 We want to 01:54:38.740 --> 01:54:39.500 continually, if you 01:54:39.500 --> 01:54:40.240 ever read, if you 01:54:40.240 --> 01:54:40.780 ever want to get 01:54:40.779 --> 01:54:41.719 good at this, read 01:54:41.719 --> 01:54:42.559 John Newton's 01:54:42.559 --> 01:54:42.859 letters. 01:54:43.399 --> 01:54:44.340 He's a master at 01:54:44.340 --> 01:54:44.460 it. 01:54:44.519 --> 01:54:44.939 If you've never 01:54:44.939 --> 01:54:45.599 read his letters, 01:54:45.699 --> 01:54:46.659 they're very readable. 01:54:47.539 --> 01:54:47.939 One of the things 01:54:47.939 --> 01:54:48.659 Newton does so 01:54:48.659 --> 01:54:49.460 beautifully is he 01:54:49.460 --> 01:54:50.659 weaves in and out 01:54:50.659 --> 01:54:51.719 of gospel language. 01:54:52.279 --> 01:54:53.679 He'll drop something 01:54:53.679 --> 01:54:54.599 in in these letters 01:54:54.599 --> 01:54:55.259 because he's writing 01:54:55.259 --> 01:54:55.819 to people who have 01:54:55.819 --> 01:54:57.239 common problems, and 01:54:57.239 --> 01:54:58.380 then he'll go back 01:54:58.380 --> 01:54:59.300 into practical and 01:54:59.300 --> 01:55:00.439 maybe consider this, 01:55:00.559 --> 01:55:01.439 and he'll talk about 01:55:01.439 --> 01:55:02.059 his own weakness, 01:55:02.159 --> 01:55:02.939 his own confession, 01:55:03.340 --> 01:55:03.840 and then he'll make 01:55:03.840 --> 01:55:04.639 a statement about 01:55:04.639 --> 01:55:05.099 Christ. 01:55:06.380 --> 01:55:07.460 It's better rather 01:55:07.460 --> 01:55:08.099 than kind of have 01:55:08.099 --> 01:55:09.699 an ultimate, now let 01:55:09.699 --> 01:55:10.119 me give you the 01:55:10.119 --> 01:55:10.500 gospel. 01:55:11.220 --> 01:55:12.619 Just pepper the 01:55:12.619 --> 01:55:13.559 gospel into your 01:55:13.559 --> 01:55:14.239 conversation. 01:55:15.000 --> 01:55:15.720 This friend who 01:55:15.720 --> 01:55:16.599 may be an 01:55:16.599 --> 01:55:18.039 unbeliever, if all 01:55:18.039 --> 01:55:18.539 they know is 01:55:18.539 --> 01:55:19.099 eventually you're 01:55:19.099 --> 01:55:19.659 going to be talking 01:55:19.659 --> 01:55:20.599 about Jesus in a 01:55:20.599 --> 01:55:21.739 very natural way, 01:55:23.019 --> 01:55:24.079 they'll decide whether 01:55:24.079 --> 01:55:24.760 they want to continue 01:55:24.760 --> 01:55:25.439 to talk to you or 01:55:25.439 --> 01:55:26.380 not based on Jesus. 01:55:27.399 --> 01:55:29.500 So be truthful. 01:55:29.639 --> 01:55:30.359 Don't abandon the 01:55:30.359 --> 01:55:31.059 truth when it doesn't 01:55:31.059 --> 01:55:31.679 seem to work. 01:55:32.559 --> 01:55:33.319 No, it's just let's 01:55:33.319 --> 01:55:33.559 pray. 01:55:33.639 --> 01:55:34.000 I don't know what 01:55:34.000 --> 01:55:34.639 else to say let's 01:55:34.639 --> 01:55:34.880 pray. 01:55:36.679 --> 01:55:37.720 Speak graciously. 01:55:37.720 --> 01:55:39.079 When in doubt, look 01:55:39.079 --> 01:55:39.940 to encourage. 01:55:40.780 --> 01:55:41.320 Again, this is what 01:55:41.320 --> 01:55:41.880 we want to be good 01:55:41.880 --> 01:55:42.000 at. 01:55:42.039 --> 01:55:42.280 If we're doing 01:55:42.280 --> 01:55:43.900 personal ministry, I 01:55:43.900 --> 01:55:45.300 want to always, it 01:55:45.300 --> 01:55:45.760 doesn't matter how 01:55:45.760 --> 01:55:47.000 dire the situation, I 01:55:47.000 --> 01:55:47.780 want to find something 01:55:47.780 --> 01:55:48.940 I can encourage, which 01:55:48.940 --> 01:55:50.280 doesn't mean flatter and 01:55:50.280 --> 01:55:53.100 it doesn't mean a 01:55:53.100 --> 01:55:57.699 platitude. 01:55:58.860 --> 01:56:00.659 Encouragement, coming 01:56:00.659 --> 01:56:02.100 alongside somebody with 01:56:02.100 --> 01:56:03.400 the word in season, 01:56:03.860 --> 01:56:05.619 means I identify where 01:56:05.619 --> 01:56:07.479 they are vulnerable and 01:56:07.479 --> 01:56:09.739 I speak faith into 01:56:09.739 --> 01:56:10.599 that vulnerability. 01:56:11.000 --> 01:56:12.500 So if I've got somebody 01:56:12.500 --> 01:56:14.319 there and they have 01:56:14.319 --> 01:56:15.239 really been struggling 01:56:15.239 --> 01:56:20.359 with anger and they've 01:56:20.359 --> 01:56:21.239 been lashing out at 01:56:21.239 --> 01:56:22.939 people in various ways, 01:56:23.599 --> 01:56:24.260 I'm going to say, 01:56:24.380 --> 01:56:25.800 okay, how can I pray 01:56:25.800 --> 01:56:27.159 for you? 01:56:27.180 --> 01:56:27.460 And they're going to 01:56:27.460 --> 01:56:27.939 say, well, I really 01:56:27.939 --> 01:56:28.539 struggle with this. 01:56:28.579 --> 01:56:29.239 And the next time you 01:56:29.239 --> 01:56:30.079 meet with them, you 01:56:30.079 --> 01:56:30.579 know what I noticed? 01:56:30.659 --> 01:56:31.340 I noticed this. 01:56:31.399 --> 01:56:32.659 I see that you're really 01:56:32.659 --> 01:56:33.439 battling there. 01:56:33.439 --> 01:56:34.739 It's very meaningful 01:56:34.739 --> 01:56:36.279 for people who feel 01:56:36.279 --> 01:56:37.000 like they're constantly 01:56:37.000 --> 01:56:38.339 failing to have you 01:56:38.339 --> 01:56:39.659 speak into areas where 01:56:39.659 --> 01:56:42.239 they're failing and show 01:56:42.239 --> 01:56:43.299 them there's grace there. 01:56:43.460 --> 01:56:44.319 That's encouragement. 01:56:44.939 --> 01:56:46.419 It's grace for the 01:56:46.419 --> 01:56:46.799 battle. 01:56:48.559 --> 01:56:49.719 And then number three, 01:56:49.819 --> 01:56:51.619 the third way we do 01:56:51.619 --> 01:56:53.559 this is we point people 01:56:53.559 --> 01:56:54.899 to the ultimate burden 01:56:54.899 --> 01:56:56.299 bearer in Christ. 01:56:57.179 --> 01:56:57.899 I want to show you 01:56:57.899 --> 01:56:58.099 something. 01:56:58.219 --> 01:56:59.339 This is a third sort of 01:56:59.339 --> 01:57:00.319 little diagram thing. 01:57:00.319 --> 01:57:03.880 This was, again, I got 01:57:03.880 --> 01:57:05.539 this from David 01:57:05.539 --> 01:57:06.500 Pallison and I just 01:57:06.500 --> 01:57:06.859 thought it was 01:57:06.859 --> 01:57:07.960 tremendously helpful for 01:57:07.960 --> 01:57:08.079 me. 01:57:08.139 --> 01:57:08.819 It has always been. 01:57:09.899 --> 01:57:12.239 But let's suppose, I'm 01:57:12.239 --> 01:57:12.759 going to draw a circle 01:57:12.759 --> 01:57:13.059 here. 01:57:15.559 --> 01:57:17.340 Let's suppose all of 01:57:17.340 --> 01:57:19.799 reality, this is sort of 01:57:19.799 --> 01:57:20.939 an existential exercise, 01:57:21.460 --> 01:57:22.460 all of reality is 01:57:22.460 --> 01:57:23.579 contained in this 01:57:23.579 --> 01:57:24.779 circle, right? 01:57:25.359 --> 01:57:26.639 This is everything. 01:57:26.640 --> 01:57:29.280 Now, within everything 01:57:29.280 --> 01:57:34.000 is a domain of me. 01:57:35.200 --> 01:57:36.380 In other words, this is 01:57:36.380 --> 01:57:37.539 what I control. 01:57:37.700 --> 01:57:38.960 This is my life. 01:57:40.619 --> 01:57:42.900 And so there are aspects 01:57:42.900 --> 01:57:44.560 of my experience that are 01:57:44.560 --> 01:57:46.740 under my control and 01:57:46.740 --> 01:57:47.680 there are aspects of my 01:57:47.680 --> 01:57:49.119 experience that are outside 01:57:49.119 --> 01:57:49.900 of my control. 01:57:50.940 --> 01:57:51.500 Right? 01:57:53.020 --> 01:57:54.700 What we tend to do as 01:57:54.700 --> 01:57:56.060 people, I'm going to show 01:57:56.060 --> 01:57:56.700 those in a couple of 01:57:56.700 --> 01:57:56.980 ways. 01:57:57.640 --> 01:57:58.720 What we tend to do as 01:57:58.720 --> 01:58:05.320 people is push out my 01:58:05.320 --> 01:58:08.140 sense of control into 01:58:08.140 --> 01:58:10.600 God's area of control. 01:58:12.660 --> 01:58:13.640 And what do we call 01:58:13.640 --> 01:58:13.920 that? 01:58:18.640 --> 01:58:19.080 Anxiety. 01:58:21.080 --> 01:58:21.940 You want to know where 01:58:21.940 --> 01:58:22.720 anxiety is? 01:58:23.360 --> 01:58:24.440 This is anxiety. 01:58:24.439 --> 01:58:27.319 I am worrying my way out 01:58:27.319 --> 01:58:29.000 to God's area of control, 01:58:29.639 --> 01:58:30.759 trying to do what only 01:58:30.759 --> 01:58:31.299 He can do. 01:58:32.899 --> 01:58:33.419 Or, 01:58:34.159 --> 01:58:36.939 we pull back 01:58:36.939 --> 01:58:41.939 and we don't do 01:58:41.939 --> 01:58:44.359 things that we are 01:58:44.359 --> 01:58:45.439 responsible for. 01:58:46.479 --> 01:58:47.479 And what does that tend 01:58:47.479 --> 01:58:48.019 to look like? 01:58:48.020 --> 01:58:53.220 depression. 01:58:53.220 --> 01:58:53.380 Depression. 01:58:55.860 --> 01:58:56.940 Depression is pulling 01:58:56.940 --> 01:58:58.180 back from that which I 01:58:58.180 --> 01:58:59.400 know is important for me 01:58:59.400 --> 01:59:00.380 to live my life. 01:59:04.180 --> 01:59:05.860 And redefining myself 01:59:05.860 --> 01:59:09.500 in a way that doesn't 01:59:09.500 --> 01:59:10.560 allow me to have true 01:59:10.560 --> 01:59:10.920 life. 01:59:12.080 --> 01:59:13.400 That's what we tend to do. 01:59:13.540 --> 01:59:14.560 Now, I'm going to redo 01:59:14.560 --> 01:59:15.320 this and show you how 01:59:15.320 --> 01:59:16.140 it functions in 01:59:16.140 --> 01:59:16.500 counseling. 01:59:24.720 --> 01:59:27.500 We have the same 01:59:27.500 --> 01:59:30.360 universe, but now we're 01:59:30.360 --> 01:59:31.700 the counselor and we're 01:59:31.700 --> 01:59:32.560 trying to help other 01:59:32.560 --> 01:59:33.180 people. 01:59:35.240 --> 01:59:36.640 We do the same thing. 01:59:36.640 --> 01:59:38.640 We push out 01:59:38.640 --> 01:59:41.800 in people's lives 01:59:41.800 --> 01:59:44.840 into the things 01:59:44.840 --> 01:59:46.600 only God can do. 01:59:49.680 --> 01:59:50.700 And what does that 01:59:50.700 --> 01:59:51.119 produce? 01:59:54.400 --> 01:59:55.119 Burnout? 01:59:58.320 --> 01:59:59.000 Anxiety? 02:00:01.240 --> 02:00:01.920 Manipulation? 02:00:01.920 --> 02:00:05.819 Or, 02:00:06.239 --> 02:00:07.800 we retreat back 02:00:07.800 --> 02:00:11.980 in self-protection 02:00:11.980 --> 02:00:15.039 and only deal with 02:00:15.039 --> 02:00:15.859 the things that we 02:00:15.859 --> 02:00:16.619 feel comfortable 02:00:16.619 --> 02:00:17.380 dealing with. 02:00:18.340 --> 02:00:18.859 And what does that 02:00:18.859 --> 02:00:19.720 look like? 02:00:23.720 --> 02:00:24.199 It's, 02:00:24.720 --> 02:00:24.940 well, 02:00:24.980 --> 02:00:25.539 unbelief, 02:00:25.720 --> 02:00:26.100 for one. 02:00:26.699 --> 02:00:27.180 Unloving. 02:00:27.659 --> 02:00:28.739 It's not loving to do 02:00:28.739 --> 02:00:29.500 that, to withdraw 02:00:29.500 --> 02:00:30.199 from people. 02:00:31.920 --> 02:00:32.480 And so, 02:00:32.819 --> 02:00:33.760 the fight for 02:00:33.760 --> 02:00:34.420 counseling 02:00:34.420 --> 02:00:37.000 is a fight 02:00:37.000 --> 02:00:38.000 to make sure 02:00:38.000 --> 02:00:39.039 we are as close 02:00:39.039 --> 02:00:39.960 as we can be 02:00:39.960 --> 02:00:41.539 to what our 02:00:41.539 --> 02:00:42.940 responsibility is 02:00:42.940 --> 02:00:44.239 without going 02:00:44.239 --> 02:00:44.779 into God's 02:00:44.779 --> 02:00:45.319 responsibility. 02:00:46.539 --> 02:00:47.619 That's how you know 02:00:47.619 --> 02:00:48.199 you're helping 02:00:48.199 --> 02:00:48.640 someone. 02:00:49.680 --> 02:00:49.980 And so, 02:00:50.039 --> 02:00:50.560 you're always 02:00:50.560 --> 02:00:51.440 asking the question, 02:00:51.560 --> 02:00:52.140 Lord, am I trying 02:00:52.140 --> 02:00:52.699 to do things 02:00:52.699 --> 02:00:53.340 that only you can 02:00:53.340 --> 02:00:53.659 do? 02:00:54.579 --> 02:00:55.359 Or, Lord, 02:00:55.420 --> 02:00:56.100 am I shrinking 02:00:56.100 --> 02:00:57.100 back from things 02:00:57.100 --> 02:00:57.980 that you want me 02:00:57.980 --> 02:00:58.560 to do, 02:00:59.020 --> 02:00:59.899 but for some reason 02:00:59.899 --> 02:01:00.819 I don't want to do? 02:01:01.920 --> 02:01:02.920 If we're doing 02:01:02.920 --> 02:01:03.359 this, 02:01:03.440 --> 02:01:04.239 we're confident. 02:01:06.239 --> 02:01:07.079 And this isn't 02:01:07.079 --> 02:01:08.079 a fixed line 02:01:08.079 --> 02:01:08.720 that we'll always 02:01:08.720 --> 02:01:09.399 know we're on, 02:01:09.659 --> 02:01:10.340 but this is our 02:01:10.340 --> 02:01:10.600 battle. 02:01:10.699 --> 02:01:11.279 This is what we're 02:01:11.279 --> 02:01:11.520 doing. 02:01:11.680 --> 02:01:13.199 This is the heart 02:01:13.199 --> 02:01:14.079 work of counseling 02:01:14.079 --> 02:01:14.880 is to battle 02:01:14.880 --> 02:01:15.399 for this. 02:01:15.760 --> 02:01:16.279 Knowing our 02:01:16.279 --> 02:01:16.640 weaknesses. 02:01:16.760 --> 02:01:17.279 Some of you here 02:01:17.279 --> 02:01:18.039 might be control 02:01:18.039 --> 02:01:18.420 freaks, 02:01:18.640 --> 02:01:19.180 and you're going 02:01:19.180 --> 02:01:19.819 to go out here 02:01:19.819 --> 02:01:20.180 a lot. 02:01:21.260 --> 02:01:21.880 And you're going 02:01:21.880 --> 02:01:22.260 to need help 02:01:22.260 --> 02:01:22.699 from your brothers 02:01:22.699 --> 02:01:23.199 and sisters 02:01:23.199 --> 02:01:23.619 who are going 02:01:23.619 --> 02:01:23.840 to say, 02:01:23.920 --> 02:01:24.100 listen, 02:01:24.380 --> 02:01:25.239 I know you like 02:01:25.239 --> 02:01:25.880 to get involved 02:01:25.880 --> 02:01:26.399 and help people 02:01:26.399 --> 02:01:27.079 solve their problems. 02:01:27.180 --> 02:01:27.720 Is that what you're 02:01:27.720 --> 02:01:28.380 doing right now? 02:01:29.060 --> 02:01:29.739 Is that really 02:01:29.739 --> 02:01:30.220 your job? 02:01:30.220 --> 02:01:31.100 Other people 02:01:31.100 --> 02:01:31.760 here may be 02:01:31.760 --> 02:01:32.600 in that I'm 02:01:32.600 --> 02:01:33.500 a contemplative 02:01:33.500 --> 02:01:34.380 like me, 02:01:34.920 --> 02:01:36.079 and I just 02:01:36.079 --> 02:01:36.860 soon let God 02:01:36.860 --> 02:01:37.560 work it all out 02:01:37.560 --> 02:01:38.020 and get out 02:01:38.020 --> 02:01:38.460 of the way. 02:01:39.560 --> 02:01:41.720 And the good 02:01:41.720 --> 02:01:42.220 question to ask 02:01:42.220 --> 02:01:42.480 is, well, 02:01:42.520 --> 02:01:42.880 maybe you're 02:01:42.880 --> 02:01:43.480 supposed to do 02:01:43.480 --> 02:01:43.800 something. 02:01:44.020 --> 02:01:44.360 Maybe you're 02:01:44.360 --> 02:01:44.820 supposed to 02:01:44.820 --> 02:01:45.280 reach out. 02:01:46.159 --> 02:01:47.159 So that's a 02:01:47.159 --> 02:01:48.440 way to understand 02:01:48.440 --> 02:01:49.940 how to do 02:01:49.940 --> 02:01:50.460 counseling, 02:01:51.140 --> 02:01:52.119 how to maintain 02:01:52.119 --> 02:01:52.960 that careful 02:01:52.960 --> 02:01:53.720 sense that I'm 02:01:53.720 --> 02:01:54.640 part of what 02:01:54.640 --> 02:01:55.240 God's doing 02:01:55.240 --> 02:01:55.860 for people. 02:01:56.539 --> 02:01:57.260 Because what it 02:01:57.260 --> 02:01:57.600 does, 02:01:57.600 --> 02:01:58.200 if this is 02:01:58.200 --> 02:01:58.760 happening, 02:01:59.320 --> 02:02:00.000 then I leave 02:02:00.000 --> 02:02:00.780 room for Jesus 02:02:00.780 --> 02:02:01.420 to act. 02:02:02.620 --> 02:02:03.700 I leave room. 02:02:03.820 --> 02:02:04.560 I'm not taking 02:02:04.560 --> 02:02:05.240 the place in 02:02:05.240 --> 02:02:05.920 someone's mind 02:02:05.920 --> 02:02:06.460 or in my own 02:02:06.460 --> 02:02:07.160 mind that Jesus 02:02:07.160 --> 02:02:08.860 needs to act. 02:02:08.980 --> 02:02:09.980 And the greatest 02:02:09.980 --> 02:02:10.480 burden, 02:02:10.560 --> 02:02:11.180 it acknowledges 02:02:11.180 --> 02:02:11.800 that the greatest 02:02:11.800 --> 02:02:13.100 burden that we 02:02:13.100 --> 02:02:13.920 will ever carry 02:02:13.920 --> 02:02:14.520 has been carried 02:02:14.520 --> 02:02:15.120 by Christ. 02:02:15.260 --> 02:02:16.620 In John 19, 02:02:16.700 --> 02:02:17.120 17, 02:02:18.460 --> 02:02:19.300 we read, 02:02:19.680 --> 02:02:20.400 carrying his 02:02:20.400 --> 02:02:21.220 own cross, 02:02:21.820 --> 02:02:22.440 he went out 02:02:22.440 --> 02:02:23.120 to the place 02:02:23.120 --> 02:02:23.840 of the skull 02:02:23.840 --> 02:02:26.100 called Golgotha. 02:02:26.100 --> 02:02:26.840 That word 02:02:26.840 --> 02:02:27.900 carrying there, 02:02:28.160 --> 02:02:28.880 translated carrying, 02:02:29.520 --> 02:02:30.180 is the word 02:02:30.180 --> 02:02:30.800 bastaza. 02:02:32.560 --> 02:02:33.780 So there's this 02:02:33.780 --> 02:02:34.840 awful language 02:02:34.840 --> 02:02:35.579 in John 02:02:35.579 --> 02:02:38.220 where Jesus 02:02:38.220 --> 02:02:40.480 is being 02:02:40.480 --> 02:02:41.500 described 02:02:41.500 --> 02:02:42.760 as carrying 02:02:42.760 --> 02:02:43.980 his own 02:02:43.980 --> 02:02:44.760 cross, 02:02:45.120 --> 02:02:45.680 bearing 02:02:45.680 --> 02:02:47.140 his own 02:02:47.140 --> 02:02:48.020 burden. 02:02:49.160 --> 02:02:50.120 But we 02:02:50.120 --> 02:02:50.560 know 02:02:50.560 --> 02:02:52.140 it isn't 02:02:52.140 --> 02:02:52.700 his burden 02:02:52.700 --> 02:02:53.740 that he's 02:02:53.740 --> 02:02:54.060 carrying. 02:02:54.800 --> 02:02:55.579 It's our 02:02:55.579 --> 02:02:55.880 burden. 02:02:56.920 --> 02:02:57.480 Jesus 02:02:57.480 --> 02:02:58.060 carried the 02:02:58.060 --> 02:02:58.620 cross not 02:02:58.620 --> 02:02:59.240 for himself 02:02:59.240 --> 02:03:00.220 but for us. 02:03:01.300 --> 02:03:01.880 And for us 02:03:01.880 --> 02:03:02.360 to be able to 02:03:02.360 --> 02:03:03.140 have confidence 02:03:03.140 --> 02:03:03.539 that we're 02:03:03.539 --> 02:03:04.220 being used 02:03:04.220 --> 02:03:04.980 by God, 02:03:05.600 --> 02:03:06.320 we have to 02:03:06.320 --> 02:03:07.060 have confidence 02:03:07.060 --> 02:03:07.780 that there is 02:03:07.780 --> 02:03:08.440 a burden 02:03:08.440 --> 02:03:09.240 bearer 02:03:09.240 --> 02:03:10.460 who is 02:03:10.460 --> 02:03:10.980 always at 02:03:10.980 --> 02:03:11.300 work, 02:03:11.960 --> 02:03:12.800 who has 02:03:12.800 --> 02:03:13.220 done the 02:03:13.220 --> 02:03:13.820 hard work 02:03:13.820 --> 02:03:14.420 already, 02:03:15.520 --> 02:03:16.700 and who 02:03:16.700 --> 02:03:17.320 can say, 02:03:17.560 --> 02:03:17.960 come to 02:03:17.960 --> 02:03:18.300 me, 02:03:18.900 --> 02:03:19.800 all who 02:03:19.800 --> 02:03:20.420 are weary 02:03:20.420 --> 02:03:21.120 and heavy 02:03:21.120 --> 02:03:21.660 laden, 02:03:22.300 --> 02:03:23.100 and I 02:03:23.100 --> 02:03:24.240 will give 02:03:24.240 --> 02:03:24.960 you rest. 02:03:24.960 --> 02:03:27.020 take up 02:03:27.020 --> 02:03:27.500 my yoke 02:03:27.500 --> 02:03:28.119 upon you 02:03:28.119 --> 02:03:28.500 and learn 02:03:28.500 --> 02:03:29.079 from me 02:03:29.079 --> 02:03:29.579 for I 02:03:29.579 --> 02:03:30.140 am gentle 02:03:30.140 --> 02:03:30.880 and lowly 02:03:30.880 --> 02:03:31.340 in heart 02:03:31.340 --> 02:03:32.500 and you 02:03:32.500 --> 02:03:32.920 will find 02:03:32.920 --> 02:03:33.920 rest for 02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:34.840 your souls 02:03:34.840 --> 02:03:36.279 for my 02:03:36.279 --> 02:03:36.779 yoke is 02:03:36.779 --> 02:03:37.539 easy and 02:03:37.539 --> 02:03:38.260 my burden 02:03:38.260 --> 02:03:39.539 is light 02:03:39.539 --> 02:03:39.979 and the 02:03:39.979 --> 02:03:40.439 point is 02:03:40.439 --> 02:03:40.800 this, 02:03:41.680 --> 02:03:42.859 we want 02:03:42.859 --> 02:03:43.420 that 02:03:43.420 --> 02:03:44.039 savior 02:03:44.039 --> 02:03:46.840 to be 02:03:46.840 --> 02:03:47.060 what 02:03:47.060 --> 02:03:47.739 radiates 02:03:47.739 --> 02:03:48.140 from our 02:03:48.140 --> 02:03:48.579 involvement 02:03:48.579 --> 02:03:48.939 with other 02:03:48.939 --> 02:03:49.380 people. 02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:51.479 Fixing 02:03:51.479 --> 02:03:52.079 problems, 02:03:53.260 --> 02:03:53.619 changing 02:03:53.619 --> 02:03:54.180 people, 02:03:54.800 --> 02:03:55.420 never the 02:03:55.420 --> 02:03:55.859 agenda. 02:03:56.720 --> 02:03:57.399 The agenda 02:03:57.399 --> 02:03:58.119 is that the 02:03:58.119 --> 02:03:58.680 one who 02:03:58.680 --> 02:03:59.260 bears the 02:03:59.260 --> 02:03:59.659 burdens 02:03:59.659 --> 02:04:00.680 and the 02:04:00.680 --> 02:04:01.100 one who 02:04:01.100 --> 02:04:01.800 gives the 02:04:01.800 --> 02:04:02.539 light burden 02:04:02.539 --> 02:04:03.380 because he 02:04:03.380 --> 02:04:03.819 takes the 02:04:03.819 --> 02:04:04.420 heavy burden 02:04:04.420 --> 02:04:05.760 is the one 02:04:05.760 --> 02:04:06.079 who helps 02:04:06.079 --> 02:04:06.500 us all. 02:04:06.500 --> 02:04:08.619 So that's 02:04:08.619 --> 02:04:08.859 it. 02:04:09.119 --> 02:04:09.279 Any 02:04:09.279 --> 02:04:11.300 questions, 02:04:11.560 --> 02:04:12.079 applications 02:04:12.079 --> 02:04:14.100 before we 02:04:14.100 --> 02:04:14.560 close up? 02:04:18.500 --> 02:04:19.840 Yeah. 02:04:21.500 --> 02:04:22.500 Yeah. 02:04:25.500 --> 02:04:26.659 Yeah. 02:04:26.659 --> 02:04:26.739 Yeah. 02:04:26.739 --> 02:04:33.039 Yeah. 02:04:33.399 --> 02:04:33.659 Yeah. 02:04:34.319 --> 02:04:34.760 Well, 02:04:35.199 --> 02:04:35.420 you know, 02:04:35.439 --> 02:04:35.840 I think it's, 02:04:35.939 --> 02:04:36.460 you're kind of 02:04:36.460 --> 02:04:36.840 assuming, 02:04:37.319 --> 02:04:37.979 I'm assuming 02:04:37.979 --> 02:04:38.439 you know 02:04:38.439 --> 02:04:38.859 them a little 02:04:38.859 --> 02:04:39.199 bit. 02:04:40.519 --> 02:04:40.939 And 02:04:40.939 --> 02:04:43.099 one of 02:04:43.099 --> 02:04:43.380 things I'll 02:04:43.380 --> 02:04:43.679 do is, 02:04:43.800 --> 02:04:43.939 okay, 02:04:43.979 --> 02:04:44.260 that's a 02:04:44.260 --> 02:04:44.920 great question. 02:04:45.800 --> 02:04:46.380 What do 02:04:46.380 --> 02:04:46.979 you think? 02:04:47.899 --> 02:04:48.539 You know, 02:04:48.960 --> 02:04:51.340 what do you 02:04:51.340 --> 02:04:51.899 think gives 02:04:51.899 --> 02:04:52.380 someone a 02:04:52.380 --> 02:04:53.119 chance to 02:04:53.119 --> 02:04:53.960 articulate 02:04:53.960 --> 02:04:54.760 why they 02:04:54.760 --> 02:04:55.079 want to 02:04:55.079 --> 02:04:55.420 know that 02:04:55.420 --> 02:04:55.840 question? 02:04:55.840 --> 02:04:56.520 It may 02:04:56.520 --> 02:04:56.819 be, 02:04:57.100 --> 02:04:57.159 well, 02:04:57.199 --> 02:04:57.539 I'm really 02:04:57.539 --> 02:04:57.940 struggling 02:04:57.940 --> 02:04:58.440 with this 02:04:58.440 --> 02:04:59.020 issue, 02:05:00.060 --> 02:05:00.980 and what 02:05:00.980 --> 02:05:01.400 they're trying 02:05:01.400 --> 02:05:01.940 to do is 02:05:01.940 --> 02:05:02.500 unhelpfully 02:05:02.500 --> 02:05:03.300 attach some 02:05:03.300 --> 02:05:05.159 basic theological 02:05:05.159 --> 02:05:06.760 concept to 02:05:06.760 --> 02:05:07.319 a complex 02:05:07.319 --> 02:05:08.199 problem as 02:05:08.199 --> 02:05:08.500 if it's 02:05:08.500 --> 02:05:08.720 going to 02:05:08.720 --> 02:05:09.180 fix it. 02:05:10.560 --> 02:05:11.140 And they're 02:05:11.140 --> 02:05:11.720 actually trying 02:05:11.720 --> 02:05:12.180 to use 02:05:12.180 --> 02:05:13.279 theology rather 02:05:13.279 --> 02:05:13.920 than use 02:05:13.920 --> 02:05:14.380 Christ. 02:05:16.980 --> 02:05:17.539 It's a 02:05:17.539 --> 02:05:18.159 guy thing a 02:05:18.159 --> 02:05:18.380 lot of 02:05:18.380 --> 02:05:18.539 times, 02:05:18.619 --> 02:05:19.119 not everybody, 02:05:19.220 --> 02:05:20.079 it can be an 02:05:20.079 --> 02:05:20.819 engineer thing. 02:05:21.819 --> 02:05:22.260 If someone's 02:05:22.260 --> 02:05:22.779 an engineer, 02:05:22.920 --> 02:05:23.260 you'll see 02:05:23.260 --> 02:05:23.420 them, 02:05:23.460 --> 02:05:23.720 they want to 02:05:23.720 --> 02:05:24.000 take that 02:05:24.000 --> 02:05:24.400 concept, 02:05:24.699 --> 02:05:24.940 they want to 02:05:24.940 --> 02:05:25.319 apply it to 02:05:25.319 --> 02:05:25.579 this, 02:05:25.579 --> 02:05:26.039 and they 02:05:26.039 --> 02:05:26.239 want to 02:05:26.239 --> 02:05:26.779 fix this. 02:05:27.600 --> 02:05:27.899 So there 02:05:27.899 --> 02:05:28.380 are theological 02:05:28.380 --> 02:05:28.939 questions that 02:05:28.939 --> 02:05:29.199 a lot of 02:05:29.199 --> 02:05:29.519 times are 02:05:29.519 --> 02:05:29.920 engineering 02:05:29.920 --> 02:05:30.460 approach, 02:05:31.019 --> 02:05:31.619 or facts 02:05:31.619 --> 02:05:32.100 approach. 02:05:33.180 --> 02:05:33.439 And so 02:05:33.439 --> 02:05:33.699 what we're 02:05:33.699 --> 02:05:33.899 trying to 02:05:33.899 --> 02:05:34.119 do is 02:05:34.119 --> 02:05:34.640 unpack it 02:05:34.640 --> 02:05:35.539 in various 02:05:35.539 --> 02:05:36.039 ways of 02:05:36.039 --> 02:05:36.439 what they're 02:05:36.439 --> 02:05:37.260 looking for 02:05:37.260 --> 02:05:37.600 in that 02:05:37.600 --> 02:05:38.100 question. 02:05:38.880 --> 02:05:39.319 And the 02:05:39.319 --> 02:05:39.619 answer 02:05:39.619 --> 02:05:40.519 ultimately in 02:05:40.519 --> 02:05:41.159 all theological 02:05:41.159 --> 02:05:41.899 questions is 02:05:41.899 --> 02:05:42.739 Jesus Christ. 02:05:43.680 --> 02:05:44.019 And so 02:05:44.019 --> 02:05:44.659 one of the 02:05:44.659 --> 02:05:44.779 things, 02:05:44.899 --> 02:05:45.260 give me an 02:05:45.260 --> 02:05:45.579 example, 02:05:46.279 --> 02:05:47.880 people are 02:05:47.880 --> 02:05:48.319 struggling, 02:05:49.220 --> 02:05:49.819 I don't 02:05:49.819 --> 02:05:51.519 understand how 02:05:51.519 --> 02:05:52.220 God can be 02:05:52.220 --> 02:05:53.779 sovereign when 02:05:53.779 --> 02:05:54.220 he let this 02:05:54.220 --> 02:05:54.720 happen in my 02:05:54.720 --> 02:05:55.079 life, 02:05:55.360 --> 02:05:55.820 someone who's 02:05:55.820 --> 02:05:56.480 lost a 02:05:56.480 --> 02:05:57.119 loved one. 02:05:58.800 --> 02:05:59.699 It's not 02:05:59.699 --> 02:06:01.619 good care to 02:06:01.619 --> 02:06:02.460 wax on 02:06:02.460 --> 02:06:03.640 sovereignty. 02:06:04.060 --> 02:06:04.579 That's the 02:06:04.579 --> 02:06:05.320 wrong time for 02:06:05.320 --> 02:06:05.760 sovereignty. 02:06:07.119 --> 02:06:08.060 It's not going to 02:06:08.060 --> 02:06:08.440 help them. 02:06:09.180 --> 02:06:09.880 It never does. 02:06:10.579 --> 02:06:11.320 Sovereignty isn't 02:06:11.320 --> 02:06:12.740 relevant, but 02:06:12.740 --> 02:06:13.940 like Ed said, 02:06:14.000 --> 02:06:14.619 it's not relevant 02:06:14.619 --> 02:06:15.360 for that moment. 02:06:16.060 --> 02:06:16.619 So if we just 02:06:16.619 --> 02:06:17.140 respond, 02:06:17.260 --> 02:06:17.680 well, God is 02:06:17.680 --> 02:06:18.880 sovereign, and he 02:06:18.880 --> 02:06:19.820 means this, and 02:06:19.820 --> 02:06:21.000 it's not going to 02:06:21.000 --> 02:06:21.360 help them. 02:06:21.359 --> 02:06:23.139 So we want to 02:06:23.139 --> 02:06:23.519 help them. 02:06:23.739 --> 02:06:24.460 And that's 02:06:24.460 --> 02:06:24.960 okay to say, 02:06:25.039 --> 02:06:27.960 listen, the best 02:06:27.960 --> 02:06:28.559 I can do is give 02:06:28.559 --> 02:06:29.500 you my sense of 02:06:29.500 --> 02:06:30.259 what I think, or 02:06:30.259 --> 02:06:31.039 let's look at the 02:06:31.039 --> 02:06:32.059 Bible together, or 02:06:32.059 --> 02:06:33.319 let's study this, if 02:06:33.319 --> 02:06:33.739 they're really 02:06:33.739 --> 02:06:34.239 intent. 02:06:34.960 --> 02:06:35.579 I think there are 02:06:35.579 --> 02:06:36.319 things you can do. 02:06:36.619 --> 02:06:36.979 We want to be 02:06:36.979 --> 02:06:37.539 careful just not 02:06:37.539 --> 02:06:38.199 throwing books at 02:06:38.199 --> 02:06:38.759 people, too. 02:06:40.699 --> 02:06:42.119 If we're going to 02:06:42.119 --> 02:06:42.739 use a book, we 02:06:42.739 --> 02:06:43.099 want to say, 02:06:43.159 --> 02:06:43.559 listen, let's 02:06:43.559 --> 02:06:44.199 talk about it. 02:06:44.199 --> 02:06:47.039 So just keeping 02:06:47.039 --> 02:06:47.679 away from 02:06:47.679 --> 02:06:49.000 theological answers, 02:06:49.960 --> 02:06:51.359 which are always 02:06:51.359 --> 02:06:52.300 more simple than 02:06:52.300 --> 02:06:53.559 the real answer, 02:06:54.559 --> 02:06:55.139 and they also 02:06:55.139 --> 02:06:56.699 tend to depersonalize 02:06:56.699 --> 02:06:58.019 Christ in the 02:06:58.019 --> 02:07:00.119 equation to fix 02:07:00.119 --> 02:07:00.819 a problem, and 02:07:00.819 --> 02:07:01.199 that doesn't 02:07:01.199 --> 02:07:01.720 usually work. 02:07:02.359 --> 02:07:03.979 So I try to get 02:07:03.979 --> 02:07:04.599 under the question 02:07:04.599 --> 02:07:05.039 and figure out 02:07:05.039 --> 02:07:05.679 what's really going 02:07:05.679 --> 02:07:05.939 on. 02:07:06.699 --> 02:07:07.439 So, good. 02:07:08.639 --> 02:07:09.019 Any other 02:07:09.019 --> 02:07:09.359 questions? 02:07:09.519 --> 02:07:10.319 Maybe one or two 02:07:10.319 --> 02:07:10.599 more, and then 02:07:10.599 --> 02:07:10.960 we'll close. 02:07:11.460 --> 02:07:11.579 Yeah. 02:07:14.199 --> 02:07:28.500 Yeah. 02:07:31.000 --> 02:07:31.720 Yeah. 02:07:34.720 --> 02:07:35.399 Yeah. 02:07:39.399 --> 02:07:40.039 Yeah. 02:07:40.039 --> 02:07:40.099 Yeah. 02:07:40.599 --> 02:07:40.800 Yeah. 02:07:40.800 --> 02:07:50.199 Most people who 02:07:50.199 --> 02:07:52.220 do this, work 02:07:52.220 --> 02:07:56.900 with this, they 02:07:56.900 --> 02:07:58.840 are dependent on 02:07:58.840 --> 02:07:59.720 the person who's 02:07:59.720 --> 02:08:00.300 in the abusive 02:08:00.300 --> 02:08:02.320 scenario, in the 02:08:02.320 --> 02:08:03.680 oppressed position, 02:08:04.060 --> 02:08:06.640 I'll say, to come 02:08:06.640 --> 02:08:07.579 to their own 02:08:07.579 --> 02:08:10.159 realization that 02:08:10.159 --> 02:08:10.859 this is an 02:08:10.859 --> 02:08:11.319 oppressive 02:08:11.319 --> 02:08:11.939 relationship. 02:08:12.220 --> 02:08:12.859 That's why Darby 02:08:12.859 --> 02:08:13.599 Strickland, her 02:08:13.599 --> 02:08:14.439 book on abuse, is 02:08:14.439 --> 02:08:15.639 really helpful, because 02:08:15.639 --> 02:08:16.359 he uses the word 02:08:16.359 --> 02:08:17.960 oppression, which I 02:08:17.960 --> 02:08:19.639 think is a biblically 02:08:19.639 --> 02:08:23.979 rich word, and the 02:08:23.979 --> 02:08:24.599 other thing it gives 02:08:24.599 --> 02:08:26.699 you is it expands it 02:08:26.699 --> 02:08:28.000 beyond just violence. 02:08:29.079 --> 02:08:29.979 There's all kinds of 02:08:29.979 --> 02:08:30.960 oppression that can 02:08:30.960 --> 02:08:32.859 happen that never 02:08:32.859 --> 02:08:34.880 reaches violence, but 02:08:34.880 --> 02:08:35.619 it's still oppressive, 02:08:36.099 --> 02:08:39.260 financial, sexual, and 02:08:39.260 --> 02:08:41.140 control with pulling 02:08:41.140 --> 02:08:42.199 away from relationships, 02:08:42.760 --> 02:08:43.480 those kind of things, 02:08:43.579 --> 02:08:44.520 hyper control. 02:08:44.800 --> 02:08:45.260 A lot of different 02:08:45.260 --> 02:08:45.820 ways people can 02:08:45.820 --> 02:08:46.780 oppress one another. 02:08:47.159 --> 02:08:48.079 Oppression has to do 02:08:48.079 --> 02:08:48.920 with the fact that I've 02:08:48.920 --> 02:08:50.619 removed your ability to 02:08:50.619 --> 02:08:51.940 be an agent responsible 02:08:51.940 --> 02:08:54.140 to God alone, and I've 02:08:54.140 --> 02:08:55.079 made you responsible to 02:08:55.079 --> 02:08:55.320 me. 02:08:56.280 --> 02:08:57.440 And God didn't let that 02:08:57.440 --> 02:08:58.180 happen with Egypt 02:08:58.180 --> 02:09:00.720 forever, and he doesn't 02:09:00.720 --> 02:09:01.739 let it happen with people 02:09:01.739 --> 02:09:02.739 forever, but they need 02:09:02.739 --> 02:09:04.260 to recognize, I need to, 02:09:04.260 --> 02:09:06.900 and so that's what you're 02:09:06.900 --> 02:09:07.739 doing a lot of times. 02:09:07.880 --> 02:09:09.699 Now, one of the mistakes 02:09:09.699 --> 02:09:10.579 we can make is we 02:09:10.579 --> 02:09:12.659 counsel couples, make it 02:09:12.659 --> 02:09:13.500 about marriage, and it's 02:09:13.500 --> 02:09:14.199 not about marriage. 02:09:15.260 --> 02:09:16.400 So it's a very difficult 02:09:16.400 --> 02:09:17.400 thing to be if you know 02:09:17.400 --> 02:09:18.840 the person who is 02:09:18.840 --> 02:09:21.000 controlling, I will say, 02:09:21.079 --> 02:09:22.420 in various ways, it may 02:09:22.420 --> 02:09:24.159 be subtle ways, and you 02:09:24.159 --> 02:09:25.460 have access to them, and 02:09:25.460 --> 02:09:26.400 they're, and they're, 02:09:26.699 --> 02:09:28.440 most people who are in 02:09:28.440 --> 02:09:29.539 that position are not 02:09:29.539 --> 02:09:30.460 going to really be open, 02:09:30.460 --> 02:09:32.199 and they're going to 02:09:32.199 --> 02:09:34.720 manipulate you as well, 02:09:35.199 --> 02:09:36.000 because that's their 02:09:36.000 --> 02:09:37.340 tendency, that's their, 02:09:37.420 --> 02:09:39.140 that's their methodology 02:09:39.140 --> 02:09:40.340 is manipulation and 02:09:40.340 --> 02:09:40.779 control. 02:09:41.439 --> 02:09:43.659 So I find that, without 02:09:43.659 --> 02:09:45.079 knowing any details about 02:09:45.079 --> 02:09:47.619 your situation, I think, 02:09:47.760 --> 02:09:48.579 what do you think the 02:09:48.579 --> 02:09:49.739 Lord wants you to do? 02:09:50.920 --> 02:09:52.100 Well, my husband says 02:09:52.100 --> 02:09:53.100 this, well, that's good, 02:09:53.159 --> 02:09:54.039 I think he has a good 02:09:54.039 --> 02:09:55.439 perspective, he can, he 02:09:55.439 --> 02:09:56.480 can be right sometimes, 02:09:56.560 --> 02:09:57.039 but what do you think, 02:09:57.180 --> 02:09:58.579 is there a time where you 02:09:58.579 --> 02:09:59.439 think he might not be 02:09:59.439 --> 02:10:00.319 right, and what would you 02:10:00.319 --> 02:10:00.979 do then? 02:10:02.079 --> 02:10:03.099 You know, get them to 02:10:03.099 --> 02:10:06.299 think as, as individuals 02:10:06.299 --> 02:10:08.659 responsible to God first, 02:10:09.099 --> 02:10:09.979 which is what we are in 02:10:09.979 --> 02:10:10.399 marriage. 02:10:11.399 --> 02:10:12.519 Our marriage does not 02:10:12.519 --> 02:10:13.619 overcome our 02:10:13.619 --> 02:10:14.639 responsibility ultimately 02:10:14.639 --> 02:10:16.699 to God, and so we try 02:10:16.699 --> 02:10:19.199 to help people understand 02:10:19.199 --> 02:10:20.399 that, grasp that. 02:10:20.880 --> 02:10:21.479 One of the things you're 02:10:21.479 --> 02:10:22.219 doing if you're helping 02:10:22.219 --> 02:10:23.599 someone who's, who's in 02:10:23.599 --> 02:10:24.420 that place where they 02:10:24.420 --> 02:10:25.359 have, they're still 02:10:25.359 --> 02:10:27.619 embroiled in it, I think 02:10:27.619 --> 02:10:28.679 the average is people 02:10:28.679 --> 02:10:30.239 will leave a marriage, an 02:10:30.239 --> 02:10:31.239 abuse of marriage, an 02:10:31.239 --> 02:10:33.279 abuse of marriage seven 02:10:33.279 --> 02:10:34.979 times before they 02:10:34.979 --> 02:10:37.639 ultimately stay out, which 02:10:37.639 --> 02:10:38.819 means seven times they go 02:10:38.819 --> 02:10:39.719 back and get hurt. 02:10:41.340 --> 02:10:42.659 So we want to be careful 02:10:42.659 --> 02:10:43.939 not forcing them out. 02:10:44.439 --> 02:10:45.639 When they leave, we want 02:10:45.639 --> 02:10:46.579 them to have their own 02:10:46.579 --> 02:10:49.359 courage to take the 02:10:49.359 --> 02:10:50.260 response, because there are 02:10:50.260 --> 02:10:51.760 going to be a lot of 02:10:51.760 --> 02:10:52.479 things that want to push 02:10:52.479 --> 02:10:54.099 them back, including the 02:10:54.099 --> 02:10:54.439 kids. 02:10:54.960 --> 02:10:56.539 The kids become an issue. 02:10:56.539 --> 02:10:59.600 So it's very complex, very 02:10:59.600 --> 02:11:00.079 difficult. 02:11:00.399 --> 02:11:01.340 The people who've done it 02:11:01.340 --> 02:11:03.519 well, that I've observed, 02:11:04.239 --> 02:11:05.920 have been patient listeners, 02:11:06.760 --> 02:11:08.519 have been safe people. 02:11:09.220 --> 02:11:10.760 Are you a safe person? 02:11:10.840 --> 02:11:12.439 Which means if she looks 02:11:12.439 --> 02:11:13.800 around and she sees all 02:11:13.800 --> 02:11:14.619 these people who want to 02:11:14.619 --> 02:11:16.100 help her, and you're the 02:11:16.100 --> 02:11:17.939 one who isn't giving your 02:11:17.939 --> 02:11:19.600 opinions unless they're asked 02:11:19.600 --> 02:11:21.640 for, you're a safe person. 02:11:21.640 --> 02:11:23.840 And that's a good place to 02:11:23.840 --> 02:11:24.020 be. 02:11:24.940 --> 02:11:26.280 You'll be most helpful in the 02:11:26.280 --> 02:11:26.740 long run. 02:11:31.940 --> 02:11:32.920 Any other questions? 02:11:33.740 --> 02:11:34.740 Let's end on a heavy one. 02:11:34.739 --> 02:11:34.840 question. 02:11:46.219 --> 02:11:46.739 Yeah. 02:11:48.739 --> 02:11:49.219 Yeah. 02:11:50.079 --> 02:11:51.340 Yeah, it can be. 02:11:51.460 --> 02:11:52.380 I mean, recognize your 02:11:52.380 --> 02:11:53.539 pastors are always having to 02:11:53.539 --> 02:11:56.880 triage what they're getting 02:11:56.880 --> 02:11:57.579 involved in. 02:11:58.380 --> 02:11:59.199 All pastors do. 02:11:59.599 --> 02:12:01.159 If you have one guy with 02:12:01.159 --> 02:12:04.719 30 people, or 10 guys, 02:12:04.739 --> 02:12:06.479 with 300 or 500 or 600, 02:12:06.639 --> 02:12:07.800 everybody's still triaging. 02:12:08.300 --> 02:12:09.619 So I think promising a 02:12:09.619 --> 02:12:10.880 pastor is a dangerous thing. 02:12:12.000 --> 02:12:13.479 So what I tend to do is I 02:12:13.479 --> 02:12:14.859 like the idea that if you're 02:12:14.859 --> 02:12:15.880 interacting with someone, 02:12:16.479 --> 02:12:17.359 that you have another 02:12:17.359 --> 02:12:18.199 brother involved. 02:12:18.420 --> 02:12:19.880 You have, you go horizontal 02:12:19.880 --> 02:12:21.159 as long as you can. 02:12:22.479 --> 02:12:23.599 And then say, well, listen, 02:12:23.659 --> 02:12:24.880 let's get, you know, let's 02:12:24.880 --> 02:12:25.460 get one of the pastors 02:12:25.460 --> 02:12:25.859 involved. 02:12:26.159 --> 02:12:27.260 When there's two guys 02:12:27.260 --> 02:12:28.039 already involved. 02:12:28.699 --> 02:12:30.039 Because that makes sure that 02:12:30.039 --> 02:12:31.079 you don't have a situation 02:12:31.079 --> 02:12:34.099 where this gets the pastor's 02:12:34.099 --> 02:12:34.579 role. 02:12:34.739 --> 02:12:36.059 becomes the primary role. 02:12:36.619 --> 02:12:37.539 Then he's coming alongside 02:12:37.539 --> 02:12:39.760 you two together as you're 02:12:39.760 --> 02:12:40.659 helping this guy. 02:12:41.599 --> 02:12:43.619 So where you can, it's much 02:12:43.619 --> 02:12:46.300 healthier for a church to, 02:12:46.939 --> 02:12:48.439 as long as we can do ministry 02:12:48.439 --> 02:12:50.819 one to another, let's work on 02:12:50.819 --> 02:12:52.219 that, even if we do several 02:12:52.219 --> 02:12:52.619 people. 02:12:53.260 --> 02:12:54.819 And then involve pastors to 02:12:54.819 --> 02:12:56.599 help us all in the process. 02:12:57.119 --> 02:12:58.099 Not just help the guy. 02:12:58.279 --> 02:12:59.460 But we're trying to work 02:12:59.460 --> 02:12:59.960 through this. 02:12:59.960 --> 02:13:01.779 So Ed and I have been 02:13:01.779 --> 02:13:02.560 meeting with Jim. 02:13:02.779 --> 02:13:04.460 And he's just, he's 02:13:04.460 --> 02:13:04.840 struggling. 02:13:05.119 --> 02:13:06.319 He's, you know, he's feeling 02:13:06.319 --> 02:13:07.220 like he doesn't have any 02:13:07.220 --> 02:13:08.060 perspective. 02:13:08.420 --> 02:13:10.380 And, you know, Sean, can you 02:13:10.380 --> 02:13:11.779 meet with us and just help us 02:13:11.779 --> 02:13:13.020 talk through where we can go 02:13:13.020 --> 02:13:13.560 from here? 02:13:13.920 --> 02:13:15.439 And Sean's able to step in 02:13:15.439 --> 02:13:16.239 and sort of say, well, that 02:13:16.239 --> 02:13:16.680 sounds good. 02:13:16.720 --> 02:13:17.600 You guys don't really care. 02:13:17.840 --> 02:13:18.480 Do you feel like they're 02:13:18.480 --> 02:13:19.359 caring for you? 02:13:19.619 --> 02:13:20.300 Yeah, I feel like they're 02:13:20.300 --> 02:13:20.800 loving me. 02:13:20.960 --> 02:13:21.960 Do you feel like they're doing 02:13:21.960 --> 02:13:23.000 anything that's making it 02:13:23.000 --> 02:13:23.760 hard for you? 02:13:24.300 --> 02:13:25.399 Well, yeah, I think sometimes 02:13:25.399 --> 02:13:26.340 they both start talking. 02:13:26.439 --> 02:13:27.300 They talk too much. 02:13:27.380 --> 02:13:28.180 Okay, guys, let's be 02:13:28.180 --> 02:13:28.520 careful. 02:13:28.720 --> 02:13:30.659 We're not both speaking at 02:13:30.659 --> 02:13:31.400 the same time. 02:13:31.500 --> 02:13:32.640 Let's be conscious of that. 02:13:32.840 --> 02:13:34.300 Is anybody following up at 02:13:34.300 --> 02:13:34.600 the end? 02:13:34.659 --> 02:13:35.360 Well, nobody's really 02:13:35.360 --> 02:13:36.380 following up, so I feel 02:13:36.380 --> 02:13:37.760 vulnerable after the fact. 02:13:38.699 --> 02:13:39.500 Well, then maybe when you 02:13:39.500 --> 02:13:40.279 can do it, you can take 02:13:40.279 --> 02:13:40.940 turns, you know. 02:13:41.180 --> 02:13:42.079 And so then what is he 02:13:42.079 --> 02:13:42.279 doing? 02:13:42.400 --> 02:13:43.860 He's helping you strategize 02:13:43.860 --> 02:13:45.900 for better care as opposed 02:13:45.900 --> 02:13:46.880 to dealing with the 02:13:46.880 --> 02:13:47.260 problem. 02:13:48.260 --> 02:13:49.420 So that's what I recommend, 02:13:49.600 --> 02:13:50.739 and I think women as well, 02:13:51.180 --> 02:13:53.000 try to get other sisters 02:13:53.000 --> 02:13:53.440 involved. 02:13:53.539 --> 02:13:54.199 That's going to be more 02:13:54.199 --> 02:13:56.640 resilient in the long run. 02:13:57.300 --> 02:13:58.800 More resilient care, 02:13:58.860 --> 02:13:59.699 because the pastor may, 02:13:59.760 --> 02:14:00.440 at any point, have to be 02:14:00.440 --> 02:14:02.140 pulled out because of 02:14:02.140 --> 02:14:02.760 another crisis. 02:14:03.159 --> 02:14:04.900 So, yeah, that's good. 02:14:05.460 --> 02:14:06.539 Well, thank you guys. 02:14:06.739 --> 02:14:07.420 I've been very patient, 02:14:07.900 --> 02:14:09.079 very attentive, so thank 02:14:09.079 --> 02:14:09.560 you so much. 02:14:09.560 --> 02:14:10.880 applause 02:14:10.880 --> 02:14:26.380 Larry Reed Jr.'s