WEBVTT

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 All right, we're cooking. Let's do it. Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to our course

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! We come today to our eighth and final class. This is it. We've come to the end. So you'll

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! remember that after spending a couple of weeks looking at the sort of general principles of

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 the Sixth Commandment, we then started to move sequentially through a number of different topics

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 beginning at the beginning of life, where we discussed abortion and life in the womb and

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 moving through some topics like capital punishment and war and self-defense. So today we come to the

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 end of life and we're going to discuss the topic of euthanasia and assisted suicide. So as we begin

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 our last class here, let's go ahead and open with a word of prayer. Let's pray together. Triune God,

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 our Creator and Redeemer, you are the author and giver of life and to you all life rightly belongs. It is

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 yours and yours alone to give and to take away. And we worship and thank you for that fact, for your

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 wisdom and for your goodness and for your faithfulness. We praise you. As we consider the

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 topic before us this morning, we ask that you'd grant us wisdom to consider these things rightly,

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 grant us trust in you and your word that all your ways are good. And Father, how could they not be

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 good considering what you have done to rescue us and to demonstrate your love for us? You have given us

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 your Son in love. You've given him up on the cross. You've given him to us in the resurrection,

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 proving that you are trustworthy and that you desire our greatest good no matter what comes in this life.

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 God, we thank you and praise you for the giving of your Son and for the pouring out of your Spirit.

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 We ask that you would be glorified in our time together this morning. Lead us by your Holy Spirit

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 into truth, into holiness, into love. We ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

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 Amen. Amen. All right. Well, as I mentioned, we're considering the topic of euthanasia this morning.

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 So let's begin by asking, what do we mean by that term? Well, literally, the word euthanasia just

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 means good death from the Greek root words eu, which means good, and thanatos, which is a Greek word

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 for death. And that's kind of quite general, but I'm sure as you all know, specifically how this word

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 is used today and how we'll talk about it today, it has a more specific meaning. Euthanasia has come

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 to mean the act of intentionally ending the life of a person who is elderly, terminally ill, or sometimes

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 suffering from an incurable injury or disease. And closely related to that is what is called

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 assisted suicide or physician-assisted suicide, or sometimes is even called medical aid in dying.

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 Sometimes people distinguish those two things, euthanasia and assisted suicide. Here's one

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 definition. It says, in cases of euthanasia, another party acts to bring about the person's death

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 in order to end ongoing suffering. In cases of assisted suicide, a second person provides the means

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 through which the individual is able to voluntarily end their own life, but they do not directly cause the

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 individual's death. So you see how they distinguish those two things. Now this issue of euthanasia or

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 assisted suicide most often comes to focus in the case of oftentimes terminally ill patients who are

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 experiencing chronic pain and therefore no longer want to live and may even wish to be put to death.

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 So that's what we're talking about this morning. Now what is the morally right thing to do in such

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 cases? How as Christians should we approach this question? That's what we're going to think about this

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 morning. And I think the first place to begin is again with a return to the sixth commandment.

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 God commands his people in the sixth commandment, you shall not murder. And when we considered this

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 commandment in depth a few weeks ago, we saw that it refers both to what we might call premeditated

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 murder, that's usually what we commonly mean by the English word murder, but it also refers to any

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 accidental causing of a person's death through things like negligence or even carelessness.

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 And there's really no indication anywhere in scripture that this commandment is lifted or lessened

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 when someone is terminally ill or elderly or in great pain.

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 Remember that under the sixth commandment, what stands under that command, under that prohibition,

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 is the reality that God is our creator and God is the author of life and that life is his and his alone

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 to give and to take away. And moreover, the sixth commandment points us to the fact, to the reality,

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 that all humans are created in God's image. And because humans are bearers of the image of God,

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 that means that the unlawful taking of the life of another human is prohibited.

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 Even we ourselves do not have the right to take our own life.

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 So the sixth commandment would seem to give a clear indication

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 that Christians should view both euthanasia and assisted suicide as wrong.

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 Now, are there any passages in scripture that deal explicitly with this issue?

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 Well, the reality is, is that there aren't, but there might be one. There might be one.

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 In his book on ethics, Wayne Grudem points out the passage in 2 Samuel 1, verses 1-16.

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 Now, you probably don't remember what's happening in 2 Samuel 1, verses 1-16,

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 but I'll tell you, this is what's happening.

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 So, in that passage, a man comes to David after Saul has just died.

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 Saul, remember, was the king.

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 At the end of 1 Samuel, Saul dies, which would make David the king.

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 So a man comes to David saying, Saul just died.

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 And then the man recounts how Saul had been gravely wounded

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 and then begged this man to take his life.

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 In effect, Saul was asking this person to perform an act of euthanasia, of mercy killing.

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 So, as the man recounts to David, he followed through with Saul's request.

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 He killed Saul and then comes to David to tell David about it.

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 And in the context of the socio-political environment at the time,

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 the man seems to be coming to David to say,

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 See, I've done this good deed that hasn't just put Saul out of his misery,

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 but has made you king.

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 Right?

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 So he's actually trying to ingratiate himself into David's favor, it seems, at that point.

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 And what is David's response to the man?

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 He's not happy about it.

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 Go ahead.

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 Yeah, Ivor, you were going to say something, too.

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 Do not touch the Lord's anointed.

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 That's right.

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 That's right.

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 He says, you can't touch the Lord's anointed.

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 Right?

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 So that's one level.

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 Right?

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 Saul was the king.

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 So you dare not lay a hand on him.

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 But what's interesting in that passage is that David also says,

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 You've murdered him.

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 In effect, David says that even though Saul was gravely wounded,

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 and it's unclear whether this man's even telling the truth,

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 because at the end of 1 Samuel, it seems like Saul falls on his own sword.

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 So perhaps Saul fell on his own sword and he didn't actually die.

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 So he was asking this man to finish that job that he tried to do.

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 But in effect, regardless of whether the man's telling the truth or not,

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 what actually happened, David says to this man's account,

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 The fact that you've done that, you're guilty of murder.

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 That it was wrong for him to take Saul's life in that way.

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 Even though Saul was in great pain.

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 Even though Saul was probably not going to recover.

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 So this passage seems to be an example where the sixth commandment is applied

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 as forbidding the taking of another person's life,

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 even if they're in extreme pain,

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 even if they're unlikely to recover.

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 However, the life of a human being must still be respected,

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 and it must be acknowledged that it's not our place as fellow human beings

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 to put ourselves in the place of God and end that person's life for those reasons.

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 Yes.

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 Yeah, that's right.

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 Yeah, there's definitely...

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 And that's why I say that this passage sort of talks to this issue, right?

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 Yeah.

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 Yeah, Susan's making the point that it seems like one of the big issues,

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 one of the things that made this especially egregious

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 is the fact that Saul was the Lord's anointed.

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 He was the king, and you're not supposed to lay your hands on the king.

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 And David exemplified that in his whole life with Saul, right?

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 As he was on the run, he said,

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 I'm not going to lay my hands on the Lord's anointed.

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 So yeah, that's definitely a strong feature of this passage from 2 Samuel.

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 But it is interesting, right?

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 That David says, you still murdered him, right?

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 He uses that language of murder,

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 kind of referencing back to the sixth commandment.

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 So, you know, I don't think we need to put a lot of stock in this 2 Samuel passage.

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 It just seems to be one of those places where there may be an analogous instance.

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 So then it would seem that, given what we've been talking about in this whole class, really,

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 that the taking of someone's life,

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 even when they're in extreme pain or chronically ill, terminally ill,

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 is not something that we're permitted to do.

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 Now, whereas the Bible does condemn the act of killing of another human being,

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 most Christian ethicists realize that there is an important distinction to be made

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 between killing and what we might call letting die, letting someone die.

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 One writer puts it this way.

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 He says, killing is actively doing something to a patient that hastens or causes their death.

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 On the other hand, letting die is passively allowing someone to die from other causes

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 without interfering with that process.

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 In the first case, the cause of death is the cause of death is the cause of death.

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 In the second case, the cause of death is the disease, the injury, or aging process

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 that has already been occurring in the person who dies.

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 And he says, while the Bible prohibits actively killing someone,

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 in the case of letting someone die, the moral decision is more complex.

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 So, there are certainly cases, right, where it would be wrong to let a person die.

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 Like, we can all sort of feel that, right?

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 It seems that we should intervene and try to help a person recover when,

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 first, there seems to be a reasonable hope of recovery, right?

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 And two, when we're able to help.

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 That seems to be a fairly straightforward application of Jesus' command

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 that we love our neighbor as ourself

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 and do for others what we would wish they do unto us.

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 However, there are cases where it may be right to allow a person to die.

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 In cases where, one, there's no reasonable hope of recovery,

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 sometimes called a situation of futility.

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 And two, it's the patient's wish in that instance to be allowed to die.

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 And or, we're simply unable to help.

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 We don't have the means or the capacity to be able to help.

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 In those instances, it may be the right thing to allow a person to die.

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 In these cases, that act is morally distinct from actively murdering a person, right?

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 Now, what we're coming up against here are all sorts of end-of-life issues, right?

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 Which can become very complex very fast.

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 And the medical situations can become very complex, right?

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 What are we able to do with medical technology?

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 What are we permitted to do with medical technology?

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 When is it right to simply entrust someone to the Lord

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 and realize that we are finite human beings

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 and we live in a fallen world and we cannot live forever?

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 When is it time to just say it's time for palliative care

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 and let this person go, right?

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 And I think determining, along with doctors and ideally Christian medical professionals,

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 what is a reasonable hope of recovery?

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 What is it that one can and cannot do?

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 And what is one able to do?

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 Those are not always clear-cut decisions.

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 We live in a fallen world and not every decision

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 is going to be straightforward in those end-of-life instances.

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 But I think granting that and granting much grace

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 as we need to make and decide how we're going to handle some of those hard issues,

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 I do think there is a difference, right?

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 There's a clear distinction between what we're talking about this morning, right?

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 Between killing and letting die.

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 Even if there are some challenging and heart-wrenching questions

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 about when it's appropriate to let someone pass away, right?

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 I think there's a clear distinction between the difficult decision of removing someone

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 from, say, an extreme medical life support system

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 that's very different than a person choosing to end their own life

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 because they've received a terminal cancer diagnosis, right?

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 So it's in those instances that we're talking about today,

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 and I believe that the Bible's clear that we should view

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 those instances of euthanasia or assisted suicide as morally wrong.

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 that God numbers our days,

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 and we should entrust ourselves into his hands,

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 and our life is his to give and to take away

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 in his good and wise providence.

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 Now, what are some of the reasons that people give

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 in support of euthanasia or physician-assisted suicide?

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 I think there are at least three,

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 and I think each one of them can actually kind of be captured by a single word,

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 and you see these words used a lot in conversations around these issues.

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 The first reason is summed up in the word freedom or choice, right?

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 The argument goes that people ought to have the freedom

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 to choose to end their own lives,

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 especially if they are terminally ill.

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 In fact, just last fall in the United Kingdom,

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 there was a bill before Parliament about this thing

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 called the Terminally Ill Adults Bill in the House of Commons,

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 and advocates of legal suicide,

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 a group called Dignity and Dying,

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 wanted to push through this Terminally Ill Adults Bill

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 in the House of Commons,

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 so they did actually a sort of poster campaign

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 in the London Underground

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 with posters making just this argument,

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 this argument for freedom or choice.

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 And the posters were part of a Let Us Choose campaign.

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 Choice is what was being appealed to there.

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 And the posters showed,

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 they're actually pretty disturbing posters, actually.

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 They showed a woman,

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 a middle-aged woman in her pajamas,

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 happily dancing in her kitchen

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 with the words,

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 let us choose, plastered there.

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 And then in big letters, it said,

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 my dying wish is my family won't see me suffer

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 and I won't have to.

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 All over the London subway system.

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 It's got a lot of pushback, by the way.

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 Felt like, even in the UK,

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 that felt like a bridge too far.

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 But do you see what's being appealed to

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 in this campaign, right?

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 Choice, freedom.

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 I should have the right

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 to be able to end my own life,

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 especially in those circumstances, right?

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 And I think in our culture today,

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 that idea of individual autonomy

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 is perhaps one of our highest values, right?

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 Anything that restricts my freedom

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 or limits my autonomy

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 is viewed with suspicion at best

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 and outrage at worst.

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 And that goes so deep

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 into our cultural mindset

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 that appealing to freedom

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 or appealing to choice

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 or suggesting that in an instance

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 someone's freedom or right to choose

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 might be taken away,

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 that almost immediately gives credibility

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 to the argument, right?

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 No one should say that I'm not free

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 to make this choice for myself.

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 But what does Scripture say

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 in light of that?

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 In 1 Corinthians 6, 19 through 20,

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 Paul says,

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 you are not your own.

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 You were bought with a price.

00:17:53.099 --> 00:17:55.519
 So glorify God in your body.

00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.240
 According to Scripture,

00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.240
 we're not autonomous, actually.

00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:05.140
 We are creatures before a creator.

00:18:06.700 --> 00:18:07.599
 And even more than that,

00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.000
 Paul says,

00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:09.599
 you were bought with a price.

00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:12.339
 This is a reference to the work of Christ.

00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:15.680
 That through Christ's sacrifice,

00:18:16.019 --> 00:18:18.140
 he has bought us for himself.

00:18:18.259 --> 00:18:19.400
 We belong to him

00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:21.140
 through his self-giving love.

00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:24.240
 So flourishing

00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.860
 is not found

00:18:26.860 --> 00:18:29.300
 in radical autonomy

00:18:29.300 --> 00:18:31.220
 or radical self-determination

00:18:31.220 --> 00:18:32.160
 or self-rule,

00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:34.540
 but in conforming ourselves

00:18:34.540 --> 00:18:35.360
 to the will

00:18:35.360 --> 00:18:37.700
 of our loving and good creator.

00:18:40.060 --> 00:18:41.700
 So the argument for choice

00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:43.340
 or freedom only goes so far.

00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:44.240
 There is a limit

00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.500
 to where our freedom ends.

00:18:47.500 --> 00:18:49.359
 And this is one of them,

00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:50.559
 I think,

00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.279
 according to the Bible.

00:18:52.339 --> 00:18:53.500
 Now, the second reason

00:18:53.500 --> 00:18:54.240
 people give

00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:56.500
 for supporting

00:18:56.500 --> 00:18:57.680
 euthanasia,

00:18:57.859 --> 00:18:59.059
 physician-assisted suicide,

00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:00.160
 is summed up in the word

00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:01.319
 compassion.

00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:02.960
 Compassion.

00:19:03.019 --> 00:19:03.740
 That's a word you'll see

00:19:03.740 --> 00:19:04.380
 very often.

00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.119
 Some people are in

00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.000
 unbearable, unending pain,

00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:11.079
 and they often only have

00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:12.400
 a few months or years

00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.539
 to live.

00:19:13.819 --> 00:19:15.099
 They will die soon

00:19:15.099 --> 00:19:15.759
 in any case,

00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:16.579
 the argument goes.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:17.359
 Therefore,

00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:18.519
 it should be right

00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:19.259
 to act

00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:21.359
 to alleviate that pain.

00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:23.140
 Surely it can't be right

00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:24.079
 to allow someone

00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:25.400
 to suffer so terribly

00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:27.000
 when we can do

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:27.900
 something about it.

00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:29.339
 Sometimes it's phrased,

00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:29.640
 right?

00:19:30.539 --> 00:19:31.359
 Now, let me say,

00:19:31.460 --> 00:19:32.180
 of course,

00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:34.140
 as human beings,

00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:34.720
 we should treat

00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:35.660
 our fellow human beings

00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:36.519
 with compassion,

00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:37.380
 right?

00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:38.279
 Those who are suffering

00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:39.079
 need care,

00:19:39.259 --> 00:19:40.079
 love, support,

00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:41.000
 tenderness.

00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:44.039
 But there are two things

00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:44.519
 that should be,

00:19:44.619 --> 00:19:44.779
 I think,

00:19:44.859 --> 00:19:45.539
 said in response

00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:46.799
 to this argument

00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.779
 from compassion.

00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:50.680
 And the first

00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:51.419
 is that

00:19:51.419 --> 00:19:52.700
 there's no biblical

00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:53.339
 prohibition

00:19:53.339 --> 00:19:54.279
 that I'm aware of

00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.500
 against palliative care.

00:19:58.919 --> 00:20:00.059
 Christians should promote

00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:01.180
 every lawful means

00:20:01.180 --> 00:20:02.299
 to alleviate suffering

00:20:02.299 --> 00:20:02.720
 and pain

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:03.279
 in those who are

00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:04.019
 terminally ill

00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:04.480
 or dying,

00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:05.740
 right?

00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:06.379
 So compassion

00:20:06.379 --> 00:20:07.779
 does want us

00:20:07.779 --> 00:20:08.039
 to move,

00:20:08.099 --> 00:20:08.819
 to reduce

00:20:08.819 --> 00:20:10.259
 or alleviate

00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:11.240
 pain and suffering,

00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:12.180
 right?

00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.839
 But second,

00:20:16.460 --> 00:20:17.880
 there is kind of

00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:19.339
 an unspoken assumption

00:20:19.339 --> 00:20:20.779
 in this

00:20:20.779 --> 00:20:21.960
 kind of argument

00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:22.859
 from compassion

00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:23.859
 that we should just

00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:24.680
 end the compassion,

00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:25.859
 that we should end

00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:26.220
 the suffering

00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:27.620
 by ending the person's life,

00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:28.059
 right?

00:20:29.059 --> 00:20:29.620
 There's sort of

00:20:29.620 --> 00:20:30.480
 an unspoken assumption

00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:31.319
 in that reasoning

00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:32.700
 that suffering

00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:33.519
 is meaningless,

00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:36.640
 right?

00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.680
 that it serves

00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.480
 no purpose

00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.060
 and it should be

00:20:41.060 --> 00:20:41.660
 just ended,

00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:42.180
 avoided,

00:20:42.280 --> 00:20:42.820
 or stopped

00:20:42.820 --> 00:20:44.120
 at all costs,

00:20:44.360 --> 00:20:45.720
 even at extreme,

00:20:45.860 --> 00:20:46.580
 ultimate cost.

00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:49.660
 And indeed,

00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:50.440
 we have to admit

00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:51.840
 that in a kind of

00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:52.520
 naturalistic

00:20:52.520 --> 00:20:53.240
 or in a secular

00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:53.780
 worldview,

00:20:54.120 --> 00:20:54.960
 suffering is

00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:55.580
 by and large

00:20:55.580 --> 00:20:56.040
 meaningless,

00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:57.160
 right?

00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:58.759
 it serves

00:20:58.759 --> 00:20:59.440
 no purpose

00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:00.400
 and should be

00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:01.060
 avoided at all

00:21:01.060 --> 00:21:01.660
 costs,

00:21:01.660 --> 00:21:03.160
 if that is

00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:03.860
 your worldview.

00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:07.220
 But in the

00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:08.040
 biblical worldview,

00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.019
 we see that

00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:10.840
 in Christ,

00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:12.779
 even our

00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:13.440
 suffering

00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:14.860
 and our pain

00:21:14.860 --> 00:21:15.640
 are not

00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:16.160
 actually

00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:16.740
 meaningless.

00:21:18.300 --> 00:21:19.180
 That God

00:21:19.180 --> 00:21:20.200
 uses even

00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:20.720
 the evils

00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:21.320
 of this world

00:21:21.320 --> 00:21:22.120
 for our good

00:21:22.120 --> 00:21:23.160
 and for his

00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:23.580
 glory.

00:21:24.980 --> 00:21:25.840
 That's not to

00:21:25.840 --> 00:21:26.480
 say that suffering

00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:27.860
 itself is good,

00:21:28.539 --> 00:21:29.759
 but God

00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:30.839
 in his goodness

00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:32.000
 is able to

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:32.599
 bring good

00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:33.460
 even out of

00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:34.120
 those things.

00:21:34.360 --> 00:21:34.819
 And yes,

00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:35.480
 he permits

00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:36.240
 those things

00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:37.920
 for his

00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:38.380
 redemptive

00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:38.880
 purposes.

00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:43.000
 So let's go

00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:43.420
 to the third

00:21:43.420 --> 00:21:43.680
 reason,

00:21:43.779 --> 00:21:44.200
 and the third

00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:44.640
 reason is

00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:45.000
 summed up

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:45.480
 in the word

00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:46.960
 dignity.

00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:48.319
 Dignity.

00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:49.319
 You'll see

00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:50.620
 this term

00:21:50.620 --> 00:21:51.420
 quite a bit.

00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:51.759
 In fact,

00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:52.519
 even that group

00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:53.039
 from the UK

00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:53.519
 I mentioned,

00:21:53.620 --> 00:21:54.079
 their whole

00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:55.220
 organization was

00:21:55.220 --> 00:21:56.039
 called Dignity

00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:56.859
 in Dying.

00:21:58.259 --> 00:21:58.599
 Now,

00:21:58.740 --> 00:21:59.399
 this word

00:21:59.399 --> 00:21:59.759
 dignity,

00:21:59.879 --> 00:22:00.099
 I think,

00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.299
 combines a bit

00:22:01.299 --> 00:22:01.680
 of the

00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.799
 previous two

00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:04.180
 reasons.

00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:05.359
 Dignity

00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:06.119
 involves,

00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:07.019
 and it means

00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:07.799
 kind of having

00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:08.500
 the autonomy

00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:09.539
 to choose

00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:10.799
 when my life

00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:11.440
 should end,

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:12.980
 and dignity

00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:13.700
 also means

00:22:13.700 --> 00:22:14.460
 not having to

00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:15.240
 suffer physical

00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:15.740
 pain,

00:22:15.879 --> 00:22:16.139
 right?

00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:18.099
 But I think

00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:19.079
 this argument

00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:20.440
 from so-called

00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:21.099
 dignity,

00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:21.839
 I think it

00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:22.839
 strikes at a

00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:23.659
 deeper reason

00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:24.660
 than just

00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:25.160
 those two.

00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:27.180
 Because when

00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:27.380
 you think

00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:27.820
 about it,

00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:29.160
 aging,

00:22:30.300 --> 00:22:31.880
 being sick,

00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:33.920
 being weak,

00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:36.640
 being in

00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:37.180
 pain,

00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:39.100
 these things

00:22:39.100 --> 00:22:40.279
 make a

00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:41.259
 person very

00:22:41.259 --> 00:22:42.440
 dependent.

00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.160
 we're no

00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:45.480
 longer

00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:45.960
 strong,

00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:47.080
 we're no

00:22:47.080 --> 00:22:47.420
 longer

00:22:47.420 --> 00:22:48.039
 independent,

00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:49.580
 we're no

00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:49.940
 longer

00:22:49.940 --> 00:22:50.980
 contributing

00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:51.900
 to society,

00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:53.500
 at least in

00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:53.980
 the ways that

00:22:53.980 --> 00:22:54.680
 our kind of

00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:55.519
 capitalist market

00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:56.580
 economy recognizes,

00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:57.000
 right?

00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:59.519
 And so,

00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:01.360
 we feel that we

00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:02.100
 don't have any

00:23:02.100 --> 00:23:03.039
 dignity.

00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:04.640
 In other words,

00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:05.400
 we feel shame.

00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:07.420
 We feel as if

00:23:07.420 --> 00:23:08.080
 our life no

00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:08.840
 longer has any

00:23:08.840 --> 00:23:09.580
 worth.

00:23:09.579 --> 00:23:14.319
 And so,

00:23:14.399 --> 00:23:14.740
 the argument

00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:15.279
 goes,

00:23:15.879 --> 00:23:17.039
 to preserve

00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:17.679
 someone's

00:23:17.679 --> 00:23:18.339
 dignity,

00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:19.679
 they should be

00:23:19.679 --> 00:23:20.159
 allowed to

00:23:20.159 --> 00:23:20.879
 end their

00:23:20.879 --> 00:23:21.240
 life.

00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:24.159
 But friends,

00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.439
 what does

00:23:24.439 --> 00:23:25.119
 scripture say?

00:23:26.879 --> 00:23:27.539
 What does

00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:28.099
 God say?

00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:30.000
 God says

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:30.759
 that his

00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:32.359
 power is

00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:33.339
 made perfect

00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:34.319
 in our

00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:34.919
 weakness,

00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:36.859
 that our

00:23:36.859 --> 00:23:37.879
 values not

00:23:37.879 --> 00:23:38.500
 determined

00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:39.599
 by whether

00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:40.140
 we can

00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:40.819
 or can't

00:23:40.819 --> 00:23:41.440
 contribute to

00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:42.039
 society.

00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:43.599
 Our

00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:44.259
 worth,

00:23:44.500 --> 00:23:44.640
 our

00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:45.440
 purpose,

00:23:46.099 --> 00:23:46.599
 our

00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:47.440
 meaning is

00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:48.019
 not

00:23:48.019 --> 00:23:48.740
 determined by

00:23:48.740 --> 00:23:49.420
 the level

00:23:49.420 --> 00:23:49.799
 of our

00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:50.359
 independence,

00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:51.519
 or our

00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:52.140
 productivity,

00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:53.359
 or our

00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:53.680
 physical

00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.279
 appearance.

00:23:56.380 --> 00:23:57.319
 In fact,

00:23:58.160 --> 00:23:58.619
 God says

00:23:58.619 --> 00:23:59.019
 when we're

00:23:59.019 --> 00:23:59.440
 weak,

00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:00.240
 then we're

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:00.740
 strong.

00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:04.700
 And,

00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:05.240
 like our

00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:06.240
 physical pain

00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:06.640
 and suffering

00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:07.079
 that we talked

00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:07.380
 about under

00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:07.859
 the heading of

00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:08.400
 compassion,

00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:10.400
 God uses

00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:11.240
 even those

00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:12.140
 moments of

00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:13.599
 weakness and

00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:15.220
 dependence for

00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:17.420
 our good to

00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:18.960
 conform us to

00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:19.480
 Christ.

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:23.660
 Now, maybe

00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:24.119
 another thing

00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:24.759
 that we might

00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:25.359
 say on this

00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:26.039
 front is just

00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:27.680
 that facing

00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:28.599
 terminal illness,

00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:29.440
 facing the

00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:30.640
 prospect of

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:32.500
 pain, maybe

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:33.420
 even prolonged

00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:34.339
 pain, and in

00:24:34.339 --> 00:24:34.759
 some rare

00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:36.000
 instances, pain

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.819
 that palliative

00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:37.440
 care cannot

00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:37.880
 alleviate.

00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:40.059
 that's very

00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:40.519
 scary.

00:24:41.900 --> 00:24:42.119
 And as

00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:42.480
 Christians, we

00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:42.960
 would never

00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:43.279
 want to

00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:44.059
 minimize that,

00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:45.700
 minimize the

00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:46.799
 real sorrow

00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:48.700
 that people

00:24:48.700 --> 00:24:49.559
 face when

00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:49.779
 they're in

00:24:49.779 --> 00:24:50.519
 these situations.

00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:51.619
 And it is

00:24:51.619 --> 00:24:52.400
 understandable

00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:53.759
 that people

00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:54.339
 are very

00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:54.920
 afraid.

00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:55.019
 afraid.

00:24:57.519 --> 00:24:58.120
 And it's

00:24:58.120 --> 00:24:58.900
 understandable that

00:24:58.900 --> 00:24:59.300
 we don't

00:24:59.300 --> 00:24:59.880
 want to face

00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:00.740
 such a

00:25:00.740 --> 00:25:01.560
 fearful and

00:25:01.560 --> 00:25:02.620
 painful future.

00:25:04.100 --> 00:25:04.680
 Is there

00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:05.279
 any comfort

00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:07.000
 for the

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:08.560
 fearful in

00:25:08.560 --> 00:25:09.039
 times like

00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:09.400
 these?

00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:11.360
 Well, in

00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:11.900
 Christ, friends,

00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:12.240
 there most

00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:13.100
 certainly is.

00:25:14.380 --> 00:25:14.560
 You know,

00:25:14.620 --> 00:25:15.779
 our God knows

00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:16.680
 what it's like

00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:17.759
 to face

00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:18.259
 pain,

00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:19.360
 to face

00:25:19.360 --> 00:25:19.820
 death,

00:25:20.380 --> 00:25:21.080
 to face

00:25:21.080 --> 00:25:22.140
 rejection from

00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:22.600
 his closest

00:25:22.600 --> 00:25:23.180
 friends,

00:25:23.180 --> 00:25:24.259
 to face

00:25:24.259 --> 00:25:24.720
 shame.

00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:27.680
 And our

00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:28.200
 good shepherd

00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.019
 promises to

00:25:30.019 --> 00:25:30.940
 walk with

00:25:30.940 --> 00:25:32.460
 us with the

00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:33.180
 deepest of

00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:34.440
 compassion as

00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:35.120
 we traverse

00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:35.940
 those dark

00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:36.380
 valleys.

00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:38.320
 Jesus'

00:25:38.580 --> 00:25:39.519
 compassion is

00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:40.440
 literally a

00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:41.640
 suffering with

00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:42.720
 us, a

00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:43.620
 compassion.

00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:45.640
 Right?

00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:47.700
 He will

00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:48.300
 enter in

00:25:48.300 --> 00:25:48.900
 with us

00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:49.480
 into those

00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:50.320
 dark places

00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:51.380
 and be

00:25:51.380 --> 00:25:51.780
 with us

00:25:51.780 --> 00:25:52.220
 each step

00:25:52.220 --> 00:25:52.400
 of the

00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:52.660
 way.

00:25:53.800 --> 00:25:54.440
 And the

00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:55.000
 promise is

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:55.900
 that in

00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:56.400
 the gospel,

00:25:56.540 --> 00:25:57.520
 because Christ

00:25:57.520 --> 00:25:58.460
 suffered for

00:25:58.460 --> 00:25:59.000
 us,

00:25:59.520 --> 00:26:01.400
 when we

00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:01.840
 suffer,

00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:03.259
 we will

00:26:03.259 --> 00:26:04.020
 become like

00:26:04.020 --> 00:26:04.759
 him in

00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:05.460
 our sufferings.

00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:05.960
 I think it

00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:06.440
 was George

00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:06.960
 MacDonald,

00:26:07.620 --> 00:26:09.300
 who wasn't a

00:26:09.300 --> 00:26:09.880
 very orthodox

00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:10.500
 guy, I'll just

00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:11.080
 say that for the

00:26:11.080 --> 00:26:11.860
 record, but I

00:26:11.860 --> 00:26:12.160
 think it was

00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:12.780
 George MacDonald,

00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:13.560
 he said some

00:26:13.560 --> 00:26:14.040
 good things every

00:26:14.040 --> 00:26:14.320
 once in a

00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:14.920
 while, I

00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:15.140
 think it was

00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:15.720
 George MacDonald

00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:16.180
 who said,

00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:17.700
 Christ suffered

00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:19.240
 not so that we

00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:19.700
 might not

00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:21.380
 suffer, but so

00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:21.880
 that in our

00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:22.720
 sufferings we

00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:23.340
 might become

00:26:23.340 --> 00:26:23.920
 like him.

00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:25.600
 Right?

00:26:29.360 --> 00:26:30.180
 Paul sort

00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:32.259
 of puts, I

00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:32.680
 think, a good

00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:33.420
 point on this.

00:26:34.420 --> 00:26:35.360
 He says that

00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:36.420
 the afflictions

00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:37.180
 of this life,

00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:38.759
 because of the

00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:39.100
 death and

00:26:39.100 --> 00:26:39.740
 resurrection of

00:26:39.740 --> 00:26:41.300
 Jesus, are

00:26:41.300 --> 00:26:42.440
 preparing for

00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:44.019
 us an eternal

00:26:44.019 --> 00:26:44.539
 weight of

00:26:44.539 --> 00:26:45.519
 glory beyond

00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:46.059
 compare.

00:26:47.139 --> 00:26:47.680
 That God is

00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:48.980
 able to take

00:26:48.980 --> 00:26:49.700
 the sufferings

00:26:49.700 --> 00:26:50.440
 of this life

00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:52.019
 and prepare

00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:52.960
 for us through

00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:54.960
 them something

00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:55.859
 of eternal

00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:56.399
 worth and

00:26:56.399 --> 00:26:57.379
 value in the

00:26:57.379 --> 00:26:57.940
 new heavens and

00:26:57.940 --> 00:26:58.339
 new earth.

00:26:59.639 --> 00:27:00.399
 In fact, do

00:27:00.399 --> 00:27:00.819
 you remember how

00:27:00.819 --> 00:27:01.099
 that goes?

00:27:01.420 --> 00:27:02.180
 How does Paul

00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:02.859
 talk about our

00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:04.240
 afflictions in

00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:04.559
 that verse?

00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:04.920
 What does he

00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:05.259
 call them?

00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:07.200
 A momentary

00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:08.059
 light affliction.

00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:08.899
 Light and

00:27:08.899 --> 00:27:09.680
 momentary

00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:11.420
 afflictions compared

00:27:11.420 --> 00:27:13.340
 to the eternal

00:27:13.340 --> 00:27:14.320
 glory that is

00:27:14.320 --> 00:27:14.940
 waiting for us

00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:15.460
 in Christ.

00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:19.080
 So I think we

00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.019
 need to say that

00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:20.519
 things like

00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.460
 freedom, things

00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:23.400
 like compassion,

00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:24.940
 things like

00:27:24.940 --> 00:27:27.800
 dignity, that

00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:28.240
 those things are

00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:28.820
 not actually

00:27:28.820 --> 00:27:30.660
 found in

00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:31.640
 assisted suicide,

00:27:32.080 --> 00:27:32.759
 in euthanasia.

00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:33.460
 They're found in

00:27:33.460 --> 00:27:33.860
 Christ.

00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:36.200
 And as we walk

00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:36.800
 with him,

00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:38.620
 together with

00:27:38.619 --> 00:27:39.119
 one another

00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:39.899
 through suffering,

00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:41.619
 he promises

00:27:41.619 --> 00:27:42.539
 neither to leave

00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:43.399
 us nor forsake

00:27:43.399 --> 00:27:44.819
 us, and he

00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:45.659
 promises to work

00:27:45.659 --> 00:27:46.799
 all things, yes,

00:27:46.919 --> 00:27:48.119
 even those most

00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:49.859
 strenuous,

00:27:50.139 --> 00:27:51.159
 difficult things.

00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:52.559
 God will work

00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:53.199
 even those for

00:27:53.199 --> 00:27:53.779
 our good and

00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:55.119
 for his glory.

00:27:58.379 --> 00:27:59.239
 Now, as we

00:27:59.239 --> 00:28:00.459
 kind of wrap up,

00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:01.179
 I want to talk

00:28:01.179 --> 00:28:01.639
 a little bit,

00:28:01.779 --> 00:28:02.359
 are there any

00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:03.619
 reasons, are

00:28:03.619 --> 00:28:04.219
 there any reasons

00:28:04.219 --> 00:28:05.539
 in addition to

00:28:05.539 --> 00:28:06.259
 God's commands

00:28:06.259 --> 00:28:06.699
 in scripture,

00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:07.279
 some of these

00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:08.279
 commands and

00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:08.700
 also some of

00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:09.180
 these gospel

00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:09.799
 principles, are

00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:10.220
 there any other

00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:10.680
 reasons that we

00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:11.160
 might give

00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:13.200
 against euthanasia

00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:13.599
 or assisted

00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:14.039
 suicide?

00:28:15.379 --> 00:28:16.639
 Well, one

00:28:16.639 --> 00:28:17.099
 reason we

00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:17.559
 might sort of

00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:20.339
 offer against

00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:21.639
 it is the

00:28:21.639 --> 00:28:22.700
 sort of precedent

00:28:22.700 --> 00:28:24.079
 that it sets.

00:28:26.019 --> 00:28:26.619
 One writer

00:28:26.619 --> 00:28:27.059
 puts it this

00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:27.839
 way, he says,

00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:29.119
 if euthanasia

00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:29.660
 is allowed for

00:28:29.660 --> 00:28:30.460
 some patients

00:28:30.460 --> 00:28:31.139
 who are suffering,

00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.160
 then how can

00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:34.099
 we prevent it

00:28:34.099 --> 00:28:35.059
 from being applied

00:28:35.059 --> 00:28:35.779
 to more and

00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:36.420
 more patients

00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:37.059
 who are suffering?

00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.379
 And with the

00:28:39.379 --> 00:28:40.160
 increasing cost

00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:40.879
 of health care

00:28:40.879 --> 00:28:41.420
 for elderly

00:28:41.420 --> 00:28:41.980
 and extremely

00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:42.700
 ill patients,

00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:43.299
 there's likely

00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:43.779
 going to be

00:28:43.779 --> 00:28:44.619
 growing pressure

00:28:44.619 --> 00:28:45.980
 on people to

00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:46.799
 ask that their

00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:47.819
 lives be taken.

00:28:49.579 --> 00:28:50.119
 Moreover,

00:28:50.299 --> 00:28:50.720
 nations that

00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:51.319
 have allowed

00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:52.039
 for physician

00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:52.859
 assisted suicide

00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:53.579
 find that a

00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:54.240
 society can

00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:55.160
 quickly move

00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:56.539
 from merely

00:28:56.539 --> 00:28:58.119
 allowing the

00:28:58.119 --> 00:28:58.839
 right to die

00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:00.839
 to the belief

00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:01.299
 that there is

00:29:01.299 --> 00:29:02.220
 an obligation

00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:03.619
 to die

00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:04.799
 on the part

00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:05.420
 of the elderly

00:29:05.420 --> 00:29:06.560
 and the

00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:07.019
 very ill

00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:07.420
 people

00:29:07.420 --> 00:29:08.440
 who are

00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:08.700
 quote,

00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:09.180
 draining

00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:09.940
 resources

00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:11.519
 from society.

00:29:13.060 --> 00:29:13.700
 And this

00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:14.140
 author says,

00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:14.480
 in such

00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:14.960
 situations,

00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:15.519
 it becomes

00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:16.120
 likely

00:29:16.120 --> 00:29:17.400
 that a

00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:17.700
 number of

00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:17.940
 elderly

00:29:17.940 --> 00:29:18.500
 people will

00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:18.940
 be put to

00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:19.120
 death

00:29:19.120 --> 00:29:19.820
 against their

00:29:19.820 --> 00:29:20.080
 will.

00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:22.660
 So the

00:29:22.660 --> 00:29:23.160
 argument here

00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:23.539
 is that

00:29:23.539 --> 00:29:24.279
 what begins

00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:24.980
 sort of as

00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:25.600
 a right

00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:26.120
 to die

00:29:26.120 --> 00:29:27.640
 begins to

00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:28.560
 transform into

00:29:28.560 --> 00:29:30.320
 social pressure

00:29:30.320 --> 00:29:31.019
 as an obligation

00:29:31.019 --> 00:29:31.759
 to die.

00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:33.379
 So it's

00:29:33.379 --> 00:29:33.680
 the kind

00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:34.240
 of precedent

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:35.140
 that this

00:29:35.140 --> 00:29:35.700
 move sets.

00:29:35.819 --> 00:29:36.039
 It's the

00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:36.319
 kind of

00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:36.859
 door that

00:29:36.859 --> 00:29:37.339
 it swings

00:29:37.339 --> 00:29:37.779
 open.

00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:41.160
 And the

00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:41.579
 reality is

00:29:41.579 --> 00:29:41.980
 in some

00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:42.640
 states and

00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:42.940
 countries,

00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:43.379
 actually in

00:29:43.379 --> 00:29:44.119
 most states

00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:44.519
 and countries

00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:45.220
 where euthanasia

00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:45.579
 and assisted

00:29:45.579 --> 00:29:46.119
 suicide have

00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:46.819
 been legalized,

00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:47.740
 there does

00:29:47.740 --> 00:29:48.279
 seem to be

00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:48.680
 a slippery

00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:49.220
 slope.

00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:51.920
 In Canada,

00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:52.460
 for example,

00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:52.879
 medically

00:29:52.879 --> 00:29:53.599
 assisted

00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:54.200
 dying

00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:54.819
 accounted

00:29:54.819 --> 00:29:55.960
 for 5%

00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:56.440
 of the

00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:56.859
 deaths in

00:29:56.859 --> 00:29:57.299
 the country

00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:58.319
 in 2023.

00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:01.159
 That means

00:30:01.159 --> 00:30:02.019
 1 in 20

00:30:02.019 --> 00:30:02.619
 people who

00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:03.019
 died in

00:30:03.019 --> 00:30:03.659
 Canada died

00:30:03.659 --> 00:30:04.099
 by taking

00:30:04.099 --> 00:30:04.460
 their own

00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:04.819
 lives with

00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:05.019
 the help

00:30:05.019 --> 00:30:05.220
 of a

00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.460
 doctor.

00:30:06.379 --> 00:30:06.859
 That's

00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:07.419
 staggering.

00:30:09.419 --> 00:30:10.019
 And in

00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:10.619
 a culture

00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:11.419
 like that,

00:30:12.220 --> 00:30:13.200
 that is

00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:13.720
 going to

00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:14.419
 lead to

00:30:14.419 --> 00:30:14.859
 a place

00:30:14.859 --> 00:30:16.119
 where people

00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:16.559
 begin to

00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:17.039
 hold their

00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.839
 lives so

00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:19.740
 lightly and

00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:20.480
 that pressures

00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:20.919
 begin to

00:30:20.919 --> 00:30:21.079
 think,

00:30:21.179 --> 00:30:21.319
 well,

00:30:21.659 --> 00:30:22.559
 I guess I

00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:23.240
 should just

00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:23.639
 end my

00:30:23.639 --> 00:30:23.960
 life.

00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:26.720
 It's hard

00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:27.159
 to see how

00:30:27.159 --> 00:30:27.500
 that's not

00:30:27.500 --> 00:30:27.919
 already

00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:28.299
 happening.

00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:29.139
 in a

00:30:29.139 --> 00:30:29.519
 place like

00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:30.039
 Canada or

00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:30.200
 in a

00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:30.500
 place like

00:30:30.500 --> 00:30:30.639
 the

00:30:30.639 --> 00:30:30.939
 Netherlands

00:30:30.939 --> 00:30:31.319
 where the

00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:31.639
 numbers are

00:30:31.639 --> 00:30:32.159
 also very

00:30:32.159 --> 00:30:32.700
 staggering,

00:30:32.919 --> 00:30:33.099
 very

00:30:33.099 --> 00:30:33.579
 sobering,

00:30:33.639 --> 00:30:34.179
 very sad.

00:30:36.139 --> 00:30:36.539
 And I

00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:36.779
 think that

00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:37.079
 leads to

00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:37.319
 another

00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:37.740
 reason.

00:30:38.859 --> 00:30:39.279
 These are

00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:39.559
 all kind

00:30:39.559 --> 00:30:39.980
 of related.

00:30:41.259 --> 00:30:41.539
 And the

00:30:41.539 --> 00:30:41.960
 second reason

00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:42.259
 is this,

00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:42.899
 is that our

00:30:42.899 --> 00:30:44.779
 laws should

00:30:44.779 --> 00:30:46.200
 ideally protect

00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.159
 the vulnerable.

00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:49.639
 But euthanasia

00:30:49.639 --> 00:30:50.099
 and assisted

00:30:50.099 --> 00:30:50.859
 suicide moves

00:30:50.859 --> 00:30:51.159
 in the

00:30:51.159 --> 00:30:51.599
 opposite

00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:52.220
 direction.

00:30:53.859 --> 00:30:54.419
 Here's how

00:30:54.419 --> 00:30:54.919
 a group of

00:30:54.919 --> 00:30:55.419
 pastors in

00:30:55.419 --> 00:30:55.679
 the United

00:30:55.679 --> 00:30:56.099
 Kingdom

00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:57.299
 express this

00:30:57.299 --> 00:30:57.980
 in a joint

00:30:57.980 --> 00:30:58.480
 letter that

00:30:58.480 --> 00:30:58.940
 they wrote

00:30:58.940 --> 00:30:59.559
 to the

00:30:59.559 --> 00:30:59.960
 members of

00:30:59.960 --> 00:31:00.299
 parliament.

00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:00.640
 Remember

00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:01.240
 last year

00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:02.220
 there was a

00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:02.839
 big debate

00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:03.039
 in the

00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:03.200
 United

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:03.480
 Kingdom

00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:03.980
 around

00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:05.220
 physician

00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:05.539
 assisted

00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:06.039
 suicide.

00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.059
 Here's an

00:31:07.059 --> 00:31:08.200
 excerpt from

00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:08.640
 a longer

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.079
 letter that

00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:09.519
 they wrote

00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:10.720
 to parliament.

00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.559
 said protecting

00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:12.779
 protecting the

00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:13.480
 most vulnerable

00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:14.059
 members of

00:31:14.059 --> 00:31:14.860
 society should

00:31:14.860 --> 00:31:15.140
 be our

00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:16.100
 primary concern.

00:31:17.299 --> 00:31:17.720
 The health

00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:18.500
 care system

00:31:18.500 --> 00:31:19.360
 is already

00:31:19.360 --> 00:31:20.400
 rife with

00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:21.980
 inequalities that

00:31:21.980 --> 00:31:22.799
 disproportionately

00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:23.740
 affect the

00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:24.039
 poor,

00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:25.079
 elderly,

00:31:25.700 --> 00:31:25.880
 ethnic

00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:26.380
 minorities,

00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:26.860
 and those

00:31:26.860 --> 00:31:27.000
 with

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:27.640
 disabilities.

00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.220
 Rather than

00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:30.079
 addressing these

00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:30.620
 disparities,

00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:31.460
 this bill,

00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:32.059
 that is the

00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:33.299
 assisted dying

00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:33.559
 bill,

00:31:34.100 --> 00:31:34.579
 risks

00:31:34.579 --> 00:31:34.579


00:31:34.579 --> 00:31:34.640
 It's

00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:35.640
 exacerbating

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:35.860
 them.

00:31:37.040 --> 00:31:37.960
 Especially as

00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:38.740
 polling shows

00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:39.920
 that 21% of

00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:40.380
 disabled

00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:41.500
 individuals fear

00:31:41.500 --> 00:31:42.620
 that assisted

00:31:42.620 --> 00:31:43.420
 dying laws would

00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:44.360
 pressure them to

00:31:44.360 --> 00:31:45.040
 end their lives

00:31:45.040 --> 00:31:45.740
 prematurely.

00:31:46.820 --> 00:31:47.820
 In the state of

00:31:47.820 --> 00:31:48.360
 Oregon, in the

00:31:48.360 --> 00:31:48.900
 United States,

00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:49.500
 where assisted

00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:50.740
 suicide is legal,

00:31:51.500 --> 00:31:53.000
 43% of those who

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:53.740
 chose assisted

00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:55.520
 suicide cited a

00:31:55.520 --> 00:31:56.759
 fear of being a

00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:57.520
 burdened on

00:31:57.520 --> 00:31:59.259
 loved ones as a

00:31:59.259 --> 00:32:00.020
 factor in their

00:32:00.020 --> 00:32:00.500
 decision.

00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:04.099
 In other words,

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:05.619
 legalizing assisted

00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:06.779
 suicide opens the

00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:07.980
 door for

00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:08.980
 vulnerable members

00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:09.880
 of our society to

00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:10.819
 be at risk of

00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:11.480
 ending their own

00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:12.720
 lives prematurely.

00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:14.519
 Friends, that's

00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:15.319
 not the sort of

00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:17.019
 culture or society

00:32:17.019 --> 00:32:17.880
 we want to sow

00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.940
 towards, where

00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:21.279
 death is seen as a

00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:23.119
 viable option to

00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:24.019
 solve problems of

00:32:24.019 --> 00:32:25.599
 pain, loneliness,

00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:27.440
 financial hardship,

00:32:27.940 --> 00:32:28.599
 or simply the

00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:29.619
 feeling that one is a

00:32:29.619 --> 00:32:29.900
 burden.

00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:33.700
 One more thing

00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:34.019
 to add.

00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:36.900
 Rather than

00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:38.319
 investing in

00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:39.519
 assisted suicide,

00:32:40.339 --> 00:32:41.799
 we should rather

00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:43.559
 invest in

00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:44.619
 palliative care.

00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:45.900
 Again, this was an

00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:46.579
 argument that these

00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:47.420
 pastors in the UK

00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:47.740
 took.

00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:48.539
 They said in that

00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:49.119
 same letter, they

00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:50.599
 said, improved

00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:52.200
 palliative care should

00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:52.960
 be the focus,

00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:54.680
 ensuring that

00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:55.720
 patients can die

00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:56.579
 with dignity and

00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:58.680
 support rather than

00:32:58.680 --> 00:32:59.619
 expanding the

00:32:59.619 --> 00:33:00.480
 option of assisted

00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:01.140
 suicide.

00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:02.920
 In the UK, there

00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:03.579
 was a lot of

00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:05.200
 observation that the

00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:05.839
 palliative care

00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:07.140
 system was so

00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:08.079
 underfunded and

00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:08.860
 receiving so little

00:33:08.860 --> 00:33:09.799
 support and that the

00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:10.680
 passage of such a

00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:11.559
 bill would put people

00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:12.299
 in those situations

00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:13.380
 in such hard,

00:33:13.539 --> 00:33:14.400
 moral places.

00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:15.779
 Now I understand

00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:16.640
 that the UK system

00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:17.120
 is different than

00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:17.599
 ours because they

00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:18.079
 have a national

00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:19.220
 health care system

00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:19.880
 and things like that,

00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:20.779
 but it's hard to

00:33:20.779 --> 00:33:22.099
 see how the same

00:33:22.099 --> 00:33:22.960
 would not be true

00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:23.799
 in the United

00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:24.720
 States, even given

00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.259
 the differences.

00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:28.279
 So again, rather

00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:29.220
 than focusing on

00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:30.619
 expanding assisted

00:33:30.619 --> 00:33:31.879
 suicide, focus on

00:33:31.879 --> 00:33:32.980
 expanding the kind

00:33:32.980 --> 00:33:34.180
 of lawful and

00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:35.480
 God-honoring care,

00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:36.700
 palliative care that

00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:37.420
 we can give to

00:33:37.420 --> 00:33:38.480
 those who are

00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:39.119
 nearing the end of

00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:39.599
 their days.

00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:40.359
 Seems like a much

00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:42.400
 better way to focus

00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:43.180
 our resources.

00:33:43.180 --> 00:33:47.160
 Okay.

00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:51.960
 Well, let's wrap up

00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:52.180
 there.

00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:53.340
 On that happy note,

00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:54.460
 here we end our

00:33:54.460 --> 00:33:54.860
 class.

00:33:56.560 --> 00:33:57.340
 We've got a little

00:33:57.340 --> 00:33:58.140
 extra time for

00:33:58.140 --> 00:33:59.200
 conversation together.

00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:01.680
 We can reflect on

00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:02.539
 our topic today if

00:34:02.539 --> 00:34:03.080
 you'd like or we

00:34:03.080 --> 00:34:03.740
 can reach back to

00:34:03.740 --> 00:34:04.720
 previous topics that

00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:05.480
 we've covered or

00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:06.240
 maybe ones that we

00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:06.860
 even haven't.

00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:08.099
 So we can just have

00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:09.400
 a good 15 minutes

00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:10.680
 of just questions,

00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:11.440
 conversation,

00:34:12.260 --> 00:34:13.000
 reflections, things

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:13.340
 that have stood

00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:13.739
 out to you in

00:34:13.739 --> 00:34:14.659
 the class, whatever

00:34:14.659 --> 00:34:15.179
 it is you'd like to

00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:15.400
 talk about.

00:34:15.460 --> 00:34:15.940
 Yes, Matt.

00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.079
 Sometimes I think

00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:20.320
 there's an issue

00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.940
 regarding giving

00:34:22.940 --> 00:34:25.380
 palliative care and

00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:26.980
 contributing to the

00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:27.860
 death of the patient.

00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:28.739
 Oh, interesting.

00:34:28.940 --> 00:34:29.159
 Yeah.

00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:30.920
 You know, that

00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.699
 could be a complex

00:34:33.699 --> 00:34:34.099
 call.

00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:35.340
 Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:35.619 --> 00:34:35.760
 Yeah.

00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:37.519
 There is no denying

00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:38.179
 the fact, Matt.

00:34:38.179 --> 00:34:38.500
 That's good.

00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:39.440
 Matt is saying that

00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:40.840
 sometimes administering

00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.659
 palliative care can seem

00:34:41.659 --> 00:34:42.960
 to be contributing to

00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.559
 the dying of a patient,

00:34:44.699 --> 00:34:44.800
 right?

00:34:44.860 --> 00:34:46.019
 Does it kind of speed

00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:47.940
 their dying process?

00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:49.760
 I think this is where

00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:50.599
 as Christians we need

00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:51.519
 to just trust our

00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:52.220
 brothers and sisters

00:34:52.220 --> 00:34:53.240
 in the medical field

00:34:53.240 --> 00:34:54.920
 and realize that in a

00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:56.440
 fallen world there's

00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.480
 no sort of perfect,

00:34:59.659 --> 00:35:00.960
 clear-cut, straight-line

00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:02.019
 way to handle these

00:35:02.019 --> 00:35:02.480
 things.

00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:04.199
 You know, I think

00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:06.320
 maybe it's true,

00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:06.579
 right?

00:35:06.579 --> 00:35:07.240
 Maybe it's true that

00:35:07.240 --> 00:35:08.159
 some methods of

00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:09.300
 palliative care do speed

00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:11.039
 someone's end of life.

00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:12.960
 I think we just have to

00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:13.660
 move in matters of

00:35:13.660 --> 00:35:14.480
 conscience on that.

00:35:15.140 --> 00:35:15.320
 Yeah.

00:35:16.460 --> 00:35:17.260
 Did you have more you

00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:18.060
 wanted to say on that,

00:35:18.140 --> 00:35:18.260
 Matt?

00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:18.900
 Was there other things

00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:19.340
 you were thinking?

00:35:19.620 --> 00:35:20.800
 No, you said it well.

00:35:21.160 --> 00:35:21.440
 Yeah.

00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:23.639
 A second issue that I've

00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:24.900
 heard, and not very

00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:26.000
 often, not of late,

00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:27.220
 about saying I agree

00:35:27.220 --> 00:35:28.139
 with it, but just

00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:29.619
 mentioning it, that

00:35:29.619 --> 00:35:31.599
 some Christians have

00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:33.039
 said at times, ah,

00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:34.360
 you know, this person

00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:35.460
 hasn't come to Christ,

00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:36.760
 or this person hasn't

00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:37.960
 repented of their sin.

00:35:38.740 --> 00:35:40.380
 Let's not, you know,

00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:43.079
 just give palliative care,

00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:46.539
 you know, to ignore this.

00:35:46.539 --> 00:35:48.000
 Let's let them suffer

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:51.300
 the oath that God

00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:52.199
 will bring them

00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.380
 closer to Christ.

00:35:53.380 --> 00:35:53.840
 Yeah.

00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:54.659
 Or closer.

00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:55.179
 Yeah.

00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:59.059
 That doesn't seem

00:35:59.059 --> 00:35:59.980
 like a good...

00:35:59.980 --> 00:36:00.519
 Yeah.

00:36:01.099 --> 00:36:01.699
 Yeah.

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:03.440
 But I just mentioned

00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:04.659
 that just makes

00:36:04.659 --> 00:36:05.300
 things as complicated

00:36:05.300 --> 00:36:05.639
 as...

00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:06.219
 That's right, just

00:36:06.219 --> 00:36:06.820
 to add another

00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:08.000
 complicated level on a

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:08.800
 complicated issue,

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:09.099
 yeah.

00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:11.019
 Yeah, should

00:36:11.019 --> 00:36:13.179
 calculations of

00:36:13.179 --> 00:36:14.400
 someone's conversion

00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.519
 play into how we

00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:17.519
 treat end-of-life

00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:18.059
 issues.

00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:19.280
 I think that's

00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:20.199
 very difficult,

00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:20.739
 you know.

00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:24.699
 Yeah, I wouldn't

00:36:24.699 --> 00:36:25.759
 be very persuaded

00:36:25.759 --> 00:36:26.940
 to place a lot

00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:27.800
 of stock in that

00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.320
 because God...

00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:31.139
 Ultimately, God

00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:31.739
 is sovereign in

00:36:31.739 --> 00:36:32.079
 salvation.

00:36:32.259 --> 00:36:33.320
 He uses the means.

00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:35.079
 He uses creaturely

00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:35.820
 means to bring that

00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:37.920
 about, but I think

00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:39.460
 our job in those

00:36:39.460 --> 00:36:40.579
 instances is to

00:36:40.579 --> 00:36:42.000
 honor someone and

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:42.900
 to honor God as

00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.000
 best we can and

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:45.239
 please God and not

00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:45.980
 to think, well, if

00:36:45.980 --> 00:36:46.480
 I do this,

00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:47.139
 it might produce

00:36:47.139 --> 00:36:48.039
 this outcome in

00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:48.759
 them spiritually,

00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:49.619
 right?

00:36:50.659 --> 00:36:51.300
 The other thing

00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:51.920
 is, too, is we

00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:52.559
 don't know what's

00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:53.579
 happening in

00:36:53.579 --> 00:36:54.239
 someone's mind and

00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:54.739
 heart when they're

00:36:54.739 --> 00:36:55.420
 on their deathbed,

00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:55.860
 when they're in

00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:56.699
 their dying moments.

00:36:57.400 --> 00:36:58.019
 You know, it's so

00:36:58.019 --> 00:36:58.519
 hard to know what

00:36:58.519 --> 00:36:59.179
 they're understanding,

00:36:59.280 --> 00:36:59.719
 what they're not

00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:01.300
 understanding, you

00:37:01.300 --> 00:37:01.519
 know?

00:37:02.820 --> 00:37:04.219
 I think being with

00:37:04.219 --> 00:37:05.460
 loved ones or

00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:06.539
 friends or neighbors

00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:07.219
 as they're dying,

00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:08.159
 praying for them,

00:37:08.659 --> 00:37:09.380
 sharing Christ for

00:37:09.380 --> 00:37:09.960
 them, even if we

00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:10.960
 don't know if they're

00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:12.119
 awake or hearing us,

00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:13.699
 I don't think those

00:37:13.699 --> 00:37:14.819
 are lost efforts.

00:37:16.779 --> 00:37:17.179
 You know, in

00:37:17.179 --> 00:37:19.819
 previous cultures

00:37:19.819 --> 00:37:20.559
 and generations,

00:37:20.779 --> 00:37:21.579
 you know, it's

00:37:21.579 --> 00:37:22.259
 interesting in our

00:37:22.259 --> 00:37:23.559
 culture of death and

00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:26.079
 dying today, it's

00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:27.500
 very rare that

00:37:27.500 --> 00:37:29.599
 someone will die

00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:30.439
 surrounded by their

00:37:30.439 --> 00:37:31.619
 family and friends.

00:37:32.299 --> 00:37:32.919
 They're often

00:37:32.919 --> 00:37:35.659
 separated from

00:37:35.659 --> 00:37:37.539
 these things, but

00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:38.239
 that has not always

00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:38.960
 been the case.

00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:41.199
 often we accompany

00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:42.760
 our dying loved

00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:44.019
 ones, we accompany

00:37:44.019 --> 00:37:44.900
 them to the grave

00:37:44.900 --> 00:37:45.539
 and we accompany

00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:47.679
 them into heaven

00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:48.920
 with singing, with

00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:49.720
 support, with

00:37:49.720 --> 00:37:50.980
 presence, right?

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.000
 We're there with

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:52.260
 them.

00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:55.760
 So, anyway, I'm

00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:56.599
 rambling now, but

00:37:56.599 --> 00:37:59.019
 yeah, I would

00:37:59.019 --> 00:38:00.119
 hesitate to play

00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:00.840
 God with someone's

00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:01.760
 conversion when we're

00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:02.139
 talking about end

00:38:02.139 --> 00:38:02.760
 of life, but I

00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:03.720
 would certainly not

00:38:03.720 --> 00:38:04.720
 cease to sow good

00:38:04.720 --> 00:38:05.960
 seeds in those

00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:07.780
 moments of love and

00:38:07.780 --> 00:38:08.539
 prayer and gospel

00:38:08.539 --> 00:38:09.019
 words.

00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:09.719
 Yeah.

00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:11.579
 Yeah?

00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:13.980
 I sense the kind

00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:16.900
 of, like, internal

00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:17.719
 contradiction or

00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:18.480
 tension in a secular

00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.900
 worldview of death

00:38:19.900 --> 00:38:21.639
 where it seems like

00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:22.920
 there's this

00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.039
 simultaneous fear of

00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.079
 death, desire to

00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:31.059
 put unending effort

00:38:31.059 --> 00:38:32.699
 toward extending life

00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:33.440
 with massive

00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.679
 intervention to add

00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:36.259
 on a few more

00:38:36.259 --> 00:38:37.119
 months or even

00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.019
 completely disrupting

00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:42.000
 the elderly

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:42.799
 ability to see

00:38:42.799 --> 00:38:43.819
 loved ones, like

00:38:43.819 --> 00:38:44.599
 the COVID, for

00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:45.440
 example, the COVID

00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:47.219
 extending a few

00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:47.779
 more years.

00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:48.159
 Yeah.

00:38:48.279 --> 00:38:49.059
 But that seems to be

00:38:49.059 --> 00:38:49.940
 in tension with

00:38:49.940 --> 00:38:52.599
 this view of

00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.639
 dignity.

00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:55.500
 Yeah.

00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:56.359
 And I wonder what

00:38:56.359 --> 00:38:57.179
 you think about

00:38:57.179 --> 00:38:57.460
 that.

00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:57.980
 Oh, yeah.

00:38:58.039 --> 00:38:58.799
 I kind of wonder if

00:38:58.799 --> 00:38:59.659
 one led to the

00:38:59.659 --> 00:39:01.579
 other and it's

00:39:01.579 --> 00:39:03.480
 sort of...

00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:04.159
 Yeah, it's a really

00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:05.659
 good observation.

00:39:05.659 --> 00:39:07.559
 And I sense that, too.

00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.019
 And I think that, you

00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:11.539
 know, there's a

00:39:11.539 --> 00:39:12.480
 theologian and

00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:13.059
 Christian philosopher

00:39:13.059 --> 00:39:14.240
 named John Frame who

00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:15.039
 would often say that,

00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:17.659
 you know, any worldview

00:39:17.659 --> 00:39:18.840
 outside of the biblical

00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:19.960
 worldview will

00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.000
 eventually, whether it

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.400
 ends in rationalism or

00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:24.300
 other, will eventually

00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:25.119
 get to a place of

00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:25.880
 irrationality.

00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:27.119
 And I think that's

00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:28.000
 actually what we see

00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.400
 when it comes to

00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:33.059
 sort of secular

00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:33.900
 approaches to death.

00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:34.760
 On the one hand,

00:39:35.260 --> 00:39:37.519
 it's something to be

00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:38.440
 avoided at all costs,

00:39:38.539 --> 00:39:39.420
 but then you see at

00:39:39.420 --> 00:39:40.500
 the same time an effort

00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:41.380
 to kind of normalize

00:39:41.380 --> 00:39:42.180
 and naturalize it,

00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:42.440
 right?

00:39:42.860 --> 00:39:43.760
 It's just natural.

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:45.200
 It's passing on.

00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:46.740
 It's, again, all these

00:39:46.740 --> 00:39:49.860
 sort of non-Christian

00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:51.440
 theologizing, really,

00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:53.039
 about what death is

00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:53.800
 and what it means.

00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.780
 And they don't

00:39:55.780 --> 00:39:57.120
 actually harmonize,

00:39:57.340 --> 00:39:57.519
 right?

00:39:57.740 --> 00:39:58.960
 They don't.

00:39:59.100 --> 00:39:59.900
 I think there are

00:39:59.900 --> 00:40:00.720
 deep contradictions

00:40:00.720 --> 00:40:01.060
 there.

00:40:01.900 --> 00:40:03.720
 And I think that's

00:40:03.720 --> 00:40:05.480
 where Christianity

00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:06.740
 can come in and say,

00:40:07.240 --> 00:40:08.460
 do you see this

00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:09.640
 tension, right,

00:40:09.720 --> 00:40:10.880
 in your own thinking?

00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.880
 Let me share with you

00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:14.700
 how I think about

00:40:14.700 --> 00:40:16.160
 those things and

00:40:16.160 --> 00:40:17.880
 how my belief in

00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.640
 God and in Jesus

00:40:18.640 --> 00:40:20.180
 Christ actually kind

00:40:20.180 --> 00:40:21.519
 of treats that a

00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:22.640
 little differently and

00:40:22.640 --> 00:40:23.460
 maybe actually makes a

00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:24.240
 little more sense,

00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:24.699
 right?

00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:26.300
 That the reason why we

00:40:26.300 --> 00:40:27.579
 recoil against death

00:40:27.579 --> 00:40:29.199
 is because it's not the

00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:30.900
 way life was intended

00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:31.340
 to be.

00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:32.980
 That God didn't create

00:40:32.980 --> 00:40:34.260
 us as humans to die,

00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:35.679
 that that's an intrusion

00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:36.539
 into the good,

00:40:37.179 --> 00:40:37.440
 right?

00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:38.539
 So, yes,

00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:41.559
 our visceral reaction

00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:43.659
 against death is

00:40:43.659 --> 00:40:44.920
 there's something right

00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:45.740
 there, right?

00:40:46.240 --> 00:40:47.099
 And yet,

00:40:47.179 --> 00:40:48.179
 Christianity also comes

00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:48.719
 and says,

00:40:49.179 --> 00:40:51.199
 but in order to

00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:52.159
 approach death

00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:53.139
 with courage,

00:40:53.139 --> 00:40:54.559
 we don't actually

00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:55.579
 have to normalize it

00:40:55.579 --> 00:40:56.460
 or naturalize it,

00:40:56.539 --> 00:40:56.739
 right?

00:40:57.199 --> 00:40:58.319
 We can say actually

00:40:58.319 --> 00:40:59.460
 that God's acted

00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:00.940
 in a way such that

00:41:00.940 --> 00:41:01.980
 death isn't the end.

00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:03.919
 So,

00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:05.699
 there may be

00:41:05.699 --> 00:41:06.679
 opportunities to

00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:07.500
 witness to Christ

00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:07.699
 there,

00:41:07.779 --> 00:41:08.639
 to evangelize there,

00:41:08.839 --> 00:41:10.199
 as we find those

00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:11.639
 kind of fractures

00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:12.779
 in the thinking of

00:41:12.779 --> 00:41:13.460
 our friends and our

00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:13.799
 neighbors,

00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:14.940
 trying to hold

00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:15.719
 together these deep

00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:16.799
 questions within a

00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:16.980
 world,

00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:17.519
 do they can't

00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:19.260
 actually hold them

00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:20.420
 without deep

00:41:20.420 --> 00:41:20.920
 contradiction.

00:41:21.680 --> 00:41:22.539
 Another example

00:41:22.539 --> 00:41:23.380
 where I saw this

00:41:23.380 --> 00:41:24.680
 in some preparation

00:41:24.680 --> 00:41:25.480
 for this morning,

00:41:26.080 --> 00:41:28.060
 in language of

00:41:28.060 --> 00:41:28.400
 freedom,

00:41:28.620 --> 00:41:28.900
 right,

00:41:29.640 --> 00:41:30.400
 around these issues

00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:30.880
 of choice.

00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:31.660
 It's very interesting.

00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:32.500
 I spent some time

00:41:32.500 --> 00:41:33.240
 looking at that

00:41:33.240 --> 00:41:34.039
 campaign in the

00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:34.640
 United Kingdom

00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:36.060
 that was arguing

00:41:36.060 --> 00:41:37.280
 for that assisted

00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:38.240
 suicide bill,

00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:40.800
 and so much of

00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:41.440
 the language on

00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:42.600
 their website was

00:41:42.600 --> 00:41:44.460
 basically,

00:41:44.660 --> 00:41:45.400
 we have to give

00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.280
 people the freedom

00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:46.920
 to choose to end

00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:47.400
 their life.

00:41:47.680 --> 00:41:48.040
 Otherwise,

00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:49.260
 they'll be forced

00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:50.700
 to end their

00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:52.960
 lives in awful,

00:41:53.640 --> 00:41:54.660
 undignified ways.

00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:56.280
 Well,

00:41:56.300 --> 00:41:57.060
 isn't that interesting?

00:41:57.700 --> 00:41:58.100
 So,

00:41:58.200 --> 00:41:58.960
 we have to give

00:41:58.960 --> 00:41:59.680
 people freedom

00:41:59.680 --> 00:42:00.400
 because if we

00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:00.900
 don't give them

00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:01.300
 the freedom,

00:42:01.660 --> 00:42:02.820
 they'll be forced

00:42:02.820 --> 00:42:03.760
 to do something,

00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:04.700
 right?

00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:05.060
 So,

00:42:05.120 --> 00:42:05.519
 they don't have

00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:05.820
 freedom.

00:42:06.220 --> 00:42:06.900
 They're totally

00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:08.680
 enslaved,

00:42:09.340 --> 00:42:10.040
 so we have to

00:42:10.040 --> 00:42:10.660
 give them freedom,

00:42:10.900 --> 00:42:11.580
 but giving that

00:42:11.580 --> 00:42:12.220
 freedom means they

00:42:12.220 --> 00:42:12.500
 die.

00:42:13.120 --> 00:42:13.920
 It's so

00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:14.560
 contradictory,

00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:15.000
 right?

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:15.639
 And of course,

00:42:15.699 --> 00:42:16.119
 you can see

00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:16.519
 that it's just,

00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:18.039
 it's,

00:42:18.199 --> 00:42:20.340
 at one level,

00:42:20.420 --> 00:42:20.639
 it's just

00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:21.500
 fear slogans,

00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:21.800
 right?

00:42:21.860 --> 00:42:22.139
 Like,

00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:22.880
 you don't want

00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:23.639
 someone to end

00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:24.280
 in this poor way,

00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:24.920
 so you have to

00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:25.539
 agree with us

00:42:25.539 --> 00:42:25.940
 and give them

00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:26.179
 this,

00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:27.739
 but even the

00:42:27.739 --> 00:42:28.599
 rationality falls

00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:28.920
 apart,

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:29.219
 right?

00:42:29.780 --> 00:42:30.179
 So,

00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:31.320
 if someone has

00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:31.699
 freedom,

00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:32.300
 then they should

00:42:32.300 --> 00:42:32.860
 have freedom

00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:34.860
 to not go down

00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:35.420
 those terrible

00:42:35.420 --> 00:42:35.840
 paths,

00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.099
 right?

00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:36.780
 That there are

00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:37.900
 other options

00:42:37.900 --> 00:42:39.260
 than these that

00:42:39.260 --> 00:42:39.639
 we've kind of

00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:40.139
 narrowed it into.

00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:40.320
 Yeah,

00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:40.500
 Beth,

00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:40.860
 did you want to

00:42:40.860 --> 00:42:41.240
 add to that?

00:42:41.420 --> 00:42:41.539
 Well,

00:42:41.539 --> 00:42:42.280
 I think sometimes

00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:43.120
 there's a temptation

00:42:43.120 --> 00:42:43.760
 as Christians

00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:45.320
 to think everything's

00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:46.260
 a slippery slope

00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:47.340
 or to think,

00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:47.760
 like,

00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:48.700
 to put ourselves

00:42:48.700 --> 00:42:50.200
 in a culture war

00:42:50.200 --> 00:42:52.039
 on minor things,

00:42:52.160 --> 00:42:53.280
 but for this one,

00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:54.019
 it feels like a

00:42:54.019 --> 00:42:54.340
 gen,

00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:56.059
 you explained it

00:42:56.059 --> 00:42:56.180
 well,

00:42:56.220 --> 00:42:56.640
 but it feels like

00:42:56.640 --> 00:42:57.860
 a genuine slippery slope.

00:42:58.120 --> 00:42:58.400
 Yeah,

00:42:58.700 --> 00:42:59.180
 yeah.

00:42:59.179 --> 00:42:59.960
 because when you

00:42:59.960 --> 00:43:01.419
 start to take

00:43:01.419 --> 00:43:03.379
 subjective things

00:43:03.379 --> 00:43:05.039
 and put objective

00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:08.779
 medical patient care

00:43:08.779 --> 00:43:10.759
 conversation in place,

00:43:11.179 --> 00:43:13.440
 it can get really

00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.139
 just twisted really

00:43:15.139 --> 00:43:15.579
 quickly.

00:43:15.699 --> 00:43:15.899
 Yeah.

00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:17.519
 I think people

00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:19.819
 have seen that

00:43:19.819 --> 00:43:20.679
 in conversations

00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:21.539
 in responses

00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:22.599
 to ultrasounds

00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:23.559
 and second level

00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:24.619
 more detailed

00:43:24.619 --> 00:43:25.299
 ultrasounds

00:43:25.299 --> 00:43:27.079
 if there's a complication

00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:28.419
 in utero.

00:43:28.420 --> 00:43:29.780
 immediately,

00:43:30.099 --> 00:43:30.340
 it's like,

00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:30.500
 well,

00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:30.980
 let me,

00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:33.639
 I have to lay out

00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:34.280
 your options

00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:35.200
 and there's always

00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:35.680
 sort of a

00:43:35.680 --> 00:43:36.880
 presented bias

00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:38.480
 and then it puts

00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:39.000
 the pressure

00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:39.700
 on the patient

00:43:39.700 --> 00:43:40.019
 to,

00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:40.340
 like,

00:43:41.539 --> 00:43:42.599
 really weigh

00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:43.360
 the options

00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:44.820
 almost on equal footing

00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:45.840
 and I think ethically,

00:43:46.059 --> 00:43:47.159
 in terms of

00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:48.220
 biblical ethics,

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:48.840
 it's like,

00:43:48.900 --> 00:43:49.619
 when you do this

00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:50.619
 to end of life,

00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:52.360
 I thought you exposed

00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:53.059
 well that within

00:43:53.059 --> 00:43:55.400
 the dignity avenue

00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:56.980
 there is the shame

00:43:56.980 --> 00:43:57.519
 element.

00:43:57.800 --> 00:43:57.980
 Yeah.

00:43:57.980 --> 00:43:59.360
 And then there's

00:43:59.360 --> 00:43:59.940
 this sort of

00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:00.920
 subjective thing

00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:01.340
 of like,

00:44:01.539 --> 00:44:02.579
 how much suffering

00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:03.920
 is too much suffering.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:04.260
 Yeah.

00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:05.340
 And then you,

00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:05.699
 like,

00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:06.699
 what does that do

00:44:06.699 --> 00:44:07.480
 to the landscape

00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:08.559
 of mental health?

00:44:09.099 --> 00:44:09.380
 Yeah.

00:44:09.980 --> 00:44:10.360
 Yeah.

00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.300
 And I think it just,

00:44:11.980 --> 00:44:13.619
 I think it's just

00:44:13.619 --> 00:44:14.920
 a sort of devastating,

00:44:15.099 --> 00:44:15.559
 like you said,

00:44:15.619 --> 00:44:16.920
 door that has swung open.

00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:17.300
 Yeah.

00:44:17.300 --> 00:44:19.840
 because all of a sudden

00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:21.340
 it feels like the,

00:44:21.460 --> 00:44:23.019
 it feels like it might

00:44:23.019 --> 00:44:26.200
 affirm the really dark,

00:44:26.620 --> 00:44:27.780
 destructive work

00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:28.980
 of spiritual darkness

00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:29.760
 that like,

00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:32.960
 to affirm a person's

00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:34.940
 already sense of worthlessness

00:44:34.940 --> 00:44:36.560
 or burden

00:44:36.560 --> 00:44:37.920
 or unlovability

00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.240
 or what is there.

00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:40.199
 and I think that

00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:41.519
 that as Christians,

00:44:41.819 --> 00:44:42.079
 like,

00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.039
 for us to speak up

00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:45.219
 and have a sense of like,

00:44:46.019 --> 00:44:47.599
 unity and rally

00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:49.119
 against those

00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:50.239
 who are already suffering

00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:51.399
 is so important.

00:44:51.799 --> 00:44:52.000
 Yeah.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:52.219
 Yeah.

00:44:52.219 --> 00:44:52.439
 You know.

00:44:52.839 --> 00:44:53.259
 Yeah.

00:44:53.399 --> 00:44:54.299
 That's well said, Beth.

00:44:54.459 --> 00:44:54.639
 Yeah.

00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:55.500
 Tom.

00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:55.879
 Yeah.

00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:57.880
 Yeah.

00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:14.280
 Yeah.

00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:15.340
 Yeah, that's right.

00:45:16.680 --> 00:45:17.079
 Yeah.

00:45:20.160 --> 00:45:20.519
 Right.

00:45:21.240 --> 00:45:21.900
 That's right.

00:45:24.680 --> 00:45:25.119
 Yeah.

00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:26.960
 Because it's not worth it.

00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:27.079
 Yeah.

00:45:27.640 --> 00:45:28.559
 You can't imagine

00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:30.240
 it's ever passing

00:45:30.240 --> 00:45:31.160
 or being beneficial.

00:45:31.720 --> 00:45:31.960
 Right.

00:45:32.500 --> 00:45:33.579
 And I think we,

00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:34.860
 I've read stories

00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:35.680
 of where that's happening

00:45:35.680 --> 00:45:36.700
 where people are starting

00:45:36.700 --> 00:45:37.599
 to get permission

00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:38.360
 to do this.

00:45:38.500 --> 00:45:38.680
 Yeah.

00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:40.619
 Because they kind of

00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:41.180
 want it.

00:45:41.700 --> 00:45:41.960
 Yeah.

00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:43.960
 They're depressed

00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:44.920
 or they're encountering

00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:45.800
 some issue that

00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:46.740
 someone else

00:45:46.740 --> 00:45:48.160
 that God has given

00:45:48.160 --> 00:45:49.460
 a joy in it.

00:45:49.460 --> 00:45:50.880
 But for this other person

00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:51.320
 to know.

00:45:51.720 --> 00:45:52.380
 So it's really

00:45:52.380 --> 00:45:53.700
 very frightening.

00:45:53.900 --> 00:45:54.140
 Yeah.

00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:54.700
 Yeah.

00:45:54.699 --> 00:46:02.279
 And so much of the work, so much of the legislation now that's being proposed really tries to say, no, no, no, no, this is just in extreme circumstances.

00:46:02.279 --> 00:46:03.759
 This is just for the terminally ill.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:08.559
 We're going to put as many kind of guardrails and definitions around it as we can.

00:46:09.279 --> 00:46:10.199
 But you're right.

00:46:10.279 --> 00:46:16.980
 I am persuaded by what you're saying, Tom, that even though they sound objective at first, they do feel a bit arbitrary.

00:46:17.659 --> 00:46:20.099
 What is stopping from just the next step over, right?

00:46:20.099 --> 00:46:25.440
 Who is going to define what is an unbearable situation?

00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:33.480
 And especially when we're making those arguments on the basis of human autonomy, who are you to say that my pain is not unbearable?

00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:34.559
 Right?

00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:40.599
 It just, I do, I do think we need to be just very, very cautious here.

00:46:42.179 --> 00:46:42.380
 Yeah.

00:46:42.380 --> 00:46:42.880
 Yeah.

00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:53.880
 I'm wondering kind of on the other extreme of things, like how much as Christians we should have like antipathy towards like death.

00:46:54.099 --> 00:47:00.760
 Because, you know, assisted suicide, I think we all have like kind of like an inclination against that.

00:47:00.860 --> 00:47:01.000
 Yeah.

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:06.300
 On the other side of things, we have this kind of phenomenon in the tech world going on right now, like transhumanism.

00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:07.059
 Oh, yeah.

00:47:07.160 --> 00:47:09.280
 Which is where we hate death so much.

00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:09.900
 Yep.

00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:10.900
 Yeah.

00:47:10.900 --> 00:47:11.340
 Yeah.

00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:11.460
 Yeah.

00:47:11.460 --> 00:47:11.900
 Yeah.

00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:12.900
 Yeah.

00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:13.900
 Yeah.

00:47:13.900 --> 00:47:14.900
 Yeah.

00:47:14.900 --> 00:47:20.019
 So, on the one hand, we don't want the medical field to help people die.

00:47:20.019 --> 00:47:20.539
 Right.

00:47:20.539 --> 00:47:27.180
 But on the other hand, how much do we want the medical field to try to help people, and of course this is only going on at like the top 0.1% right now.

00:47:27.180 --> 00:47:27.380
 Sure.

00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:27.880
 Yeah.

00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:35.519
 But assuming we can, you know, the medical education will trickle down, how much do we want the medical field to extend life for everyone?

00:47:35.700 --> 00:47:36.480
 Does that make any sense?

00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:40.860
 Oh, it makes total sense, you know, and that's why this class needed to be 16 weeks, not eight weeks.

00:47:41.860 --> 00:47:42.699
 Really good point.

00:47:42.699 --> 00:48:01.359
 There is the other extreme where, as humans, can we take it into our own hands to say, no, we will use whatever means possible to extend physical life as long as possible, regardless of the cost, regardless of the kind of creaturely boundaries we have to break in order to do it.

00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:02.360
 You know?

00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:03.360
 You know?

00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:09.360
 And I think there's also a very dangerous thing we're stepping into there.

00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:14.320
 And also I will say that I could be wrong about this.

00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:31.340
 I'm not a tech guru, obviously, but if I were to take all of your mental processes, translate them into ones and zeros and present a big stack of paper with your everything that is in your brain in a big stack of papers and ones and zeros, that is not human life.

00:48:31.340 --> 00:48:32.340
 Right?

00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:32.340


00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:44.600
 So some of these dreams of, like, uploading myself into a database and then I'll live forever, I, again, from our perspective, they seem pretty far-fetched.

00:48:44.660 --> 00:48:48.539
 But I think there's also, like, definitionally, that's not what it means to be human.

00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:48.960
 Right?

00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:54.960
 And that's where so much of these questions get to on this transhumanism front is, what does it mean to be human?

00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:00.340
 And not, here's the other thing, too, not just what are we able to do, right?

00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:03.340
 Because technology, we're able to do all sorts of things.

00:49:03.579 --> 00:49:03.760
 Right?

00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:05.400
 AI is another good question.

00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:05.599
 Right?

00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:09.699
 Like, we can do all sorts of things or AI can do all sorts of things.

00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:10.340
 Right?

00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:13.720
 But what sort of people do we want to become?

00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:15.300
 Right?

00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:30.440
 Do we want to create a culture where we're just extending people's life indefinitely in the face of the fact that, look, humans are only going to live 80, 90, 100 years.

00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:40.039
 And there does come a point where, again, we see this in Scripture, where we have to embrace the fact that God is sovereign and we will die.

00:49:41.140 --> 00:49:45.220
 And the goal is not to avoid death forever, but to be ready for death when it comes.

00:49:46.100 --> 00:49:52.480
 And to see in Christ the ultimate answer to our spiritual death and our eternal death.

00:49:53.240 --> 00:49:55.660
 And that one day he will even conquer our physical death.

00:49:56.180 --> 00:49:56.340
 Right?

00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:57.600
 But that's where our hope lies.

00:49:57.720 --> 00:50:01.100
 So, yeah, there's so many issues here that are so well raised.

00:50:01.120 --> 00:50:01.560
 But you're right.

00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:01.920
 Yeah.

00:50:02.160 --> 00:50:02.680
 Okay, one more.

00:50:02.740 --> 00:50:04.100
 Richard, you get the last word.

00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:10.120
 Perhaps some of you remember the old saying, come grow old with me.

00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:12.440
 The best is yet to be.

00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:17.539
 But Jesus invites us, come suffer with me.

00:50:17.700 --> 00:50:19.679
 The best is yet to be.

00:50:19.820 --> 00:50:20.200
 Yeah.

00:50:20.619 --> 00:50:21.300
 Yeah.

00:50:21.720 --> 00:50:22.720
 Well said.

00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:23.559
 Yeah.

00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:25.000
 Yeah.

00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:26.460
 Yeah.

00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:27.460
 Death.

00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:30.539
 That's right.

00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:32.260
 That's right.

00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:33.760
 That's right.

00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:38.019
 Sorry for the heavy weight this morning, friends.

00:50:38.460 --> 00:50:38.679
 You know.

00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:45.000
 J.R.R. Tolkien was asked one time, oh, Tolkien, what's the Lord of the Rings all about?

00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:47.539
 You know, you wrote this massive fantasy novel.

00:50:47.900 --> 00:50:48.820
 How would you sum it up?

00:50:48.820 --> 00:50:52.880
 And he said, well, it's about what all mythologies and all great mythologies are about.

00:50:53.120 --> 00:50:54.080
 It's about death.

00:50:54.460 --> 00:50:57.080
 So, we're talking a lot about death this morning.

00:50:57.180 --> 00:51:01.640
 But, hey, we're also talking about death in light of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:02.140
 Right?

00:51:02.300 --> 00:51:06.580
 So, we do not grieve as those who have no hope.

00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:09.100
 And we also know that death is a defeated enemy.

00:51:09.340 --> 00:51:10.300
 Enemy though he is.

00:51:10.300 --> 00:51:13.100
 So, all right, friends, let me pray and then we'll head upstairs.

00:51:13.240 --> 00:51:16.180
 Father, thank you all for this class.

00:51:16.300 --> 00:51:21.180
 Lord, we've dipped into such heavy matters, such weighty things, such sobering topics.

00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:26.300
 Lord, there's been so much cause for reflection, for grief and lament at times.

00:51:27.140 --> 00:51:29.180
 And yet, not without hope, God.

00:51:30.019 --> 00:51:35.860
 Lord, we trust that having walked through your word again when it comes to life and its value

00:51:35.860 --> 00:51:36.880
 and its gift.

00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:43.860
 God, I pray that we would be strengthened again to live for you, to trust you, to go

00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:51.240
 forth with courage and joy, knowing that your ways are good, that you are the God of life,

00:51:52.140 --> 00:51:55.619
 that you offer us indestructible life in Jesus, your son.

00:51:56.360 --> 00:52:01.380
 And you promise one day to take all death and dying and sorrow and wipe it away and make

00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:02.119
 all things new.

00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:09.219
 Lord, help us to be that kind of hopeful, resilient, loving people, courageous, even in the face

00:52:09.219 --> 00:52:13.039
 of suffering, even in the face of dying, because of your deep love for us.

00:52:13.139 --> 00:52:18.039
 What indeed can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord, you say, Father?

00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:20.719
 Nothing, not even death itself.

00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:22.440
 We thank you and praise you for that.

00:52:22.500 --> 00:52:23.480
 In Jesus' name, amen.

00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:23.579
 Amen.

00:52:23.579 --> 00:52:24.299
 Amen.

00:52:24.299 --> 00:52:24.539
 Amen.

00:52:24.539 --> 00:52:24.679
 Amen.