WEBVTT

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 Welcome, everyone. We're going to get started. My name is Tom Schmidt. I haven't met you before. I'm one of the elders here at Trinity Baptist Church. Welcome to our Adult Sunday School class. We've been going through a series looking at the various creeds of Christianity. Today we're talking about the Council of Nicaea. I'll give a little bit of background once we begin, but let's open in prayer.

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 Father, we come before you and we ask that today we would tremble before your word, that we'd be convicted by your truth, by your nature, by how, Lord, you became flesh and dwelt among us and died for our sins and rose again on the third day.

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 We thank you, Lord Jesus, for all you've done for us. We pray you'd send your spirit into our hearts in this time together, that we would be encouraged, that we would learn from the wisdom of the saints who have gone before us hundreds of years ago.

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 And we ask this in your name. Amen.

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 Okay, welcome, everyone. So we're in class three right now.

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 The first class we had a couple weeks ago, Tyler talked about what creeds are, how they can help us as Christians, how they're like hearing aids that highlight the salient points, the relevant points of scripture.

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 And then last week, we talked about early Christian creeds.

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 We looked at, I'll put some names on the board here.

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 We looked at perhaps the first, the first Christian creed we have from a guy named Irenaeus in the year 180 AD.

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 And we looked at that creed, we looked at some other later creeds.

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 These were really good, good creeds.

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 They were very nourishing.

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 I mean, it was wonderful to see that 1,845 years ago, Irenaeus is saying the same things we believe.

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 Really beautiful, especially because Irenaeus said that it's not just him, that all Christians throughout the whole earth believe this.

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 And he spoke about God being the maker of all things, the son becoming God, and dying for our sins.

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 He mentions the Holy Spirit.

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 Today, we're going to continue onward and look at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.

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 And I want to give you a little bit of background about this, talk about its importance, talk about who the main folks were, and then we'll get into reading what the Nicene Creed has to say.

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 Sound good?

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 All right.

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 So, first, I want to read you something.

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 I handed it out.

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 It's just called the confession.

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 I got really excited with the handouts.

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 So, there's a lot.

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 We're only going to go over a very little bit.

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 You can take it home and read it if you want to.

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 But I handed out one called the confession.

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 I just want to read a few lines from this.

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 All right.

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 Here it goes.

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 We believe in one God, the Father, the ruler of all, and in the Lord Jesus Christ, his only Son, the one who is begotten from him before all ages, God the Word, through whom all things came to be, things in the heavens and things on earth, the one who descended and took flesh and suffered and rose and ascended into the heavens and is coming again to judge the living and the dead,

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 and in the Holy Spirit and in the resurrection of the flesh and in the life of the age to come in the kingdom of the heavens and in the one Catholic Church, Catholic meaning universal church, extending from one end of earth to the other.

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 If you are listening to that creed and you're thinking, that is a good creed, well, you would be a heretic.

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 Now, I'm actually exaggerating a little bit.

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 This is the confession of Arius, the great heretic.

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 Yes, it is.

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 So I left his name off.

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 I put it in red in my copy.

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 Now, I'm actually, I'm being a little unfair here.

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 He wrote this after many years as a way to try and show that he was Orthodox, but he really wasn't because what he meant by some of these terms was not what he meant.

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 They're normally interpreted as being.

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 So, for instance, when he says that Jesus is God the Word, right, he means that in a very different way than what probably you all think that means.

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 And one of the things we found last week was that with Irenaeus, Irenaeus explicitly says that Jesus is divine.

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 That's a universal early Christian belief.

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 We find it all over the place.

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 We find it in the New Testament.

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 We find it outside the New Testament.

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 But imagine for a moment that you are in the ancient world where polytheism is rife.

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 People are believing in multiple gods.

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 So, when someone says that Jesus is divine, Jesus is God in the ancient world, can you imagine ways that they could mean that in a bad way, in a heretical way, in an unorthodox way?

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 Can you think of, what are some, anyone, any, if you really wanted to twist that, Susan.

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 Yes, you could just mean, yes, Jesus is divine, just like all, there's many multiple gods.

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 Exactly.

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 You could definitely mean that.

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 Yeah, look.

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 He could have been divinized like Heracles.

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 Yes.

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 So, he could be divinized.

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 He could be human who is raised up to the status of the gods.

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 Exactly.

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 You could mean it that way.

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 Precisely.

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 Yeah.

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 Those are the two big ones.

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 But there are other ones.

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 I mean, if you want to push it, there's several different ways you can try and do it.

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 Here's another one.

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 You can believe that there's this one God who, because he's so far removed from us, has to create a kind of mediator to deal with us, a craftsman.

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 So, he creates Jesus as this kind of go-between between creation and the divine realm and kind of calls this creature God, but in like a lowercase g sense.

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 That's another way you could do it.

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 And we'll find out that that's kind of what Arius meant when he was saying Jesus was divine.

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 You guys come in?

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 You can come in.

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 Yeah.

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 Yeah.

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 He meant that Jesus really wasn't God, that he was just called that.

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 However Arius defined it, when you look at his definition, you realize that's not God.

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 So, this confession, while I was a little unfair when I said you would be a heretic, this actually is a great confession.

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 It's just incomplete.

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 He doesn't define what he means by his terms.

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 In this confession.

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 And that kind of lack of clarity is what created the mess that caused the need for the Council of Nicaea.

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 So, let's do a little background on the Council here.

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 Christianity begins, you know, the resurrection of Jesus happens, the disciples go out throughout the whole Roman Empire preaching the gospel.

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 And for 300 years, Christianity spreads shockingly.

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 Just remarkably.

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 All over the Roman Empire.

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 There's all sorts of different cultures in the Greco-Roman Empire.

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 There's Greeks.

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 There's Latins.

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 There's folks speaking, you know, Gothic and Coptic and Syriac and all these other dialects.

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 And Christianity spreads.

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 It also spreads outside the Roman Empire in Persia, Ethiopia, Armenia, Central Asia, all these places.

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 Christians are often persecuted.

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 And by the time 325 rolls around, for the first time, Christians have a Christian emperor.

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 Constantine, Emperor Constantine comes to power around 311 or so.

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 And he issues an edict allowing freedom of religion.

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 This is actually not only a massive turn in the history of Christianity, but also in just humanity.

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 I mean, as far as I'm aware, this is the first time a major political figure ordered or made it law that people could believe whatever they wanted to believe.

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 That you couldn't persecute someone for their religious beliefs.

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 Constantine himself is a Christian.

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 We're going to find out Constantine didn't actually hold to this standard very well.

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 But by the time 325 comes around, Constantine is now sole emperor.

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 When he first became emperor, he was co-emperor.

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 Now he's sole emperor.

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 And there's a problem in the church, in the Roman church in 325.

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 And that's because there is a guy named Arius, who is a presbyter in the church in Egypt.

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 And he is teaching things that are upsetting folks.

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 And if we turn to, I have this handout, the Thalia of Arius.

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 Arius was composing like songs.

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 He was composing little ditties, catchphrases with theological content.

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 And he was saying things like this.

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 If you go to number one or I right there, he was saying things like this.

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 God was not eternally a father.

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 There was a time when God was all alone and was not yet a father.

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 Only later did he become a father.

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 Yeah, yeah, yes.

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 You should let them know we didn't have enough handout.

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 Oh, okay.

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 Okay, not everybody has everything.

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 So if you're looking for it, I apologize.

00:10:04.839 --> 00:10:06.459
 We got a lot of folks here today, which is great.

00:10:07.479 --> 00:10:08.719
 Oh, I got an extra one.

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 Is it this one?

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 Yes, it's that one, yeah.

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 Oh, I got two extra ones.

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 Oh, you're the source of it, Raul.

00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.400
 Okay, number two.

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 Arius would say things like this.

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 The sun did not always exist.

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 Everything created is out of nothing.

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 All existing creatures, all things that are made.

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 So the word of God himself came into existence out of nothing.

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 There was a time when he did not exist.

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 So notice he uses the term word of God.

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 He calls Jesus the word of God.

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 But then he's very clear.

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 He didn't always exist.

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 He didn't always exist.

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 If we look at his confession, where he says God the word,

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 he calls Jesus God the word.

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 But now we see that he means that only in the way of defining Jesus as not always existing.

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 Right?

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 Now, I have a question for you.

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 Does that mean he's actually God?

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 Like, if he didn't exist at some point and then came into existence?

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 Normally, we would say God is eternal.

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 He always existed.

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 Right?

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 But Arius here is saying, there was a time when the sun did not exist and then came into being.

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 So, do you see the tension there between calling Jesus divine but then saying that he didn't always exist?

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 Right?

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 And this goes on.

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 Arius goes on for a while.

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 He says, we won't read all of this.

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 If we skip down to number four, he says, there are two wisdoms.

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 One that is proper to God and exists together with him.

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 And the sun who is brought into being in this wisdom.

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 Only by participating in this wisdom is the sun called wisdom and word.

00:12:15.439 --> 00:12:15.879
 Hmm.

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 So, scripture says Jesus is the wisdom of God.

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 Right?

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 So, if you believe that Jesus came into existence, then you must mean that God's wisdom came into existence.

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 Which must mean that God didn't have wisdom at some point.

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 Which seems really weird.

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 Right?

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 That feels wrong.

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 That feels wrong.

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 So, what Arius tries to do is he says, ah, Jesus is only wisdom in like a very different sense.

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 He's only wisdom in the sense that he's like somehow expressing God's wisdom.

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 But, and so, so you see the kind of convoluted circles Arius is trying to trace here with these songs.

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 Well, these songs that he was singing and composing got pretty popular, were upsetting some churches.

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 Churches were concerned about this teaching.

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 And so, they called a council together to try and figure out some kind of solution to this problem.

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 Because you have Arius who's saying, he will say something like this, Jesus is God.

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 He would be willing to say something like that.

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 But then, what he means by this is different.

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 It's not, it seems like the way he means this means Jesus isn't God.

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 Like, it actually seems like what he really means is the opposite of this.

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 But he just, he'll use, he'll use traditional accepted language, but he'll use it in ways that is not how people would normally interpret that.

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 And friends, this is something we have to be very careful with.

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 I think this is both an interpersonal warning and a theological warning.

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 It's theological warning in the sense that you always want to make sure your terms are clear when you're having theological discussions.

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 Because otherwise, you're just talking past each other.

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 And the same thing interpersonally.

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 So many of our arguments, friends, are just because we're using the same words differently.

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 Or we're using different words to mean the same thing.

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 And we don't understand this about what we are talking about.

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 And I think Arius, perhaps, is actually, he could be doing this intentionally.

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 I don't think he was doing it intentionally.

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 I think he just had a warped view of what God was.

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 I mean, I think he just had this warped view.

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 So, because of Arius' rabble-rousing, the Council of Nicaea was called together in 325 AD.

00:14:55.940 --> 00:15:06.240
 And Tom, I don't know about this for 100% sure, but is it true that the Arian doctrines were sort of gaining in popularity?

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 And that's why it's one thing?

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 Scholars have tried to, have debated this.

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 They've debated, is the Arian doctrine gaining in popularity?

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 I want to, before I answer that question, I want to say one thing.

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 We're talking about Arius here.

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 However, what Arius believed might be quite different than what, like, an Arian church believed.

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 And so, when he's using terms like Jesus is God, and we're going to, hopefully we'll have time to dig in and see some of this.

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 That, it's very possible there were people in Arian churches that actually believed pretty orthodox stuff.

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 Because, as you can see, this is getting really technical here.

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 So, you know, if you asked a first century New Testament Christian who just heard the gospel on the streets by Peter the Apostle some of these questions,

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 they, who knows how they would answer some of these questions.

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 Like, was there a time when the son was not?

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 Did he exist in the mind of God?

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 But not like, it's just, it gets really complicated.

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 So, but in terms of popularity, my understanding is that he was probably gaining a popularity in Egypt for a while.

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 But then, after his condemnation, there were Arian churches for hundreds of years in Germany.

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 Germany was actually, the Germanic people were mostly Arian for a very long time.

00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:35.980
 But I want to be careful with that because when you say something like, Arians believe Jesus is not divine.

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 That's true, but it's not how they would, I mean, if you went and asked one of the Arians,

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 hey, do you think Jesus is divine?

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 They'd say, yes.

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 And it's only after like really kind of pushing through some things that you start realizing.

00:16:53.679 --> 00:17:03.819
 So, so those Germanic churches that were Arian, that, that is, I just want us to not, you know,

00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.559
 knee-jerk, write them off as, as full-blown, they don't believe in the deity of Jesus.

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 Because they, some of them might have, but even though their internal theology was a little messed up.

00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.679
 So, I think that Arians was growing in popularity.

00:17:15.899 --> 00:17:18.740
 I don't think this was a massive movement, but it was big in Egypt.

00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:22.440
 I think it was amongst kind of the elite.

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 The Council of Nicaea was also much more than just this.

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 There were other things they had to decide.

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 There were other things they were trying to settle, like the date of Easter and things like this.

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 325 is also, when Constantine came to power, he was only co-emperor.

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 The other co-emperor was still persecuting Christians.

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 So, when Constantine becomes the only emperor by 325, it's the first time that the Christian church can gather on an empire-wide scale without fear of persecution.

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 So, this is a really big deal.

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 This is the largest church council that's ever met up to this point.

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 And it's, it's effectively an empire-wide council.

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 So, they're talking about lots of stuff, not just the Aryan, not just the Aryan issue.

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 Any other questions?

00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:14.539
 I know we're going over a lot.

00:18:14.620 --> 00:18:15.559
 We're moving quickly here.

00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:16.559
 Okay.

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.259
 So, a lot goes on at the council.

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 We don't have, we don't have, for some later councils, we have like blow-by-blow minutes of the proceedings.

00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:33.759
 We don't have that with the Council of Nicaea.

00:18:34.399 --> 00:18:35.919
 Instead, we have later reports.

00:18:35.919 --> 00:18:38.639
 We have some eyewitness accounts of people who were there.

00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:54.560
 But, just to show you the difficulty of, or the kind of puzzling nature of Arius's creed, I want you, I want us to read an earlier creed by him.

00:18:54.559 --> 00:19:04.480
 So, in your packet that has two, two sides, if you go to, towards the back, page 329, the letter of Arius to Eusebius of Nicomedia.

00:19:12.419 --> 00:19:19.179
 And this is a letter of Arius where he explains his beliefs.

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.159
 Okay, so I'm going to read just a little bit.

00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:29.440
 So, this is in Arius's own words.

00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:38.659
 Something that is also important is it's, as far as we're able, it's always good to go back to the original source as much as possible.

00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:41.740
 So, if you want to hear what Arius believes, let's just read what he believes.

00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:43.240
 We have his letter here.

00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:44.079
 He's going to explain it.

00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:54.079
 So, we're going to skip to, at the very, very bottom of 329, in the middle, in the, he talks about how the bishop is driving,

00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:55.940
 driving us out of the city.

00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:57.019
 Now, we're on top of 330.

00:19:57.500 --> 00:20:05.119
 As godless men, since we do not agree with him, when he says publicly, always father, always son.

00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:06.980
 Father and son together.

00:20:07.659 --> 00:20:10.299
 The son exists unbegottenly with God.

00:20:10.299 --> 00:20:13.399
 The eternal begotten or unbegotten only one.

00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.099
 Neither in thought nor by a single instant is God before the son.

00:20:18.259 --> 00:20:20.000
 Always God, always son.

00:20:20.419 --> 00:20:22.179
 The son is of God himself.

00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:26.840
 These are the, remember how Arius was composing these kind of little songs?

00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:33.519
 This is the, his bishop's reply is these catchphrases, like, Jesus is always the son.

00:20:33.580 --> 00:20:34.940
 The father is always the father.

00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:37.720
 The son is of God himself.

00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:39.720
 The son is always God.

00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:48.420
 This is because if you think that the son did not exist at some point, then the father wasn't always the father.

00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:49.799
 He couldn't be father.

00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:50.620
 He hadn't had a son yet.

00:20:50.619 --> 00:20:57.619
 So, uh, what Arius is going to go on is explain what he thinks.

00:20:57.739 --> 00:21:13.019
 So, uh, if we jump down to the middle of 330, uh, he says, but we cannot bear even to listen to such impieties, though the heretics should threaten us with a thousand deaths.

00:21:13.019 --> 00:21:16.279
 What is it that we say and think and have taught and teach?

00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:16.920
 Here we go.

00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:24.460
 That the son is not unbegotten nor a part of the unbegotten in any way.

00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:28.000
 The unbegotten, he's referring to God here.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:42.000
 Nor formed out of any substratum, but that he was constituted by God's will and counsel before time and before ages, full of grace and truth, divine, unique, unchangeable.

00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:42.640
 Unchangeable.

00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:48.599
 And before he was begotten or created or ordained or founded, he was not.

00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.720
 Meaning he did not exist.

00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:52.380
 Eric.

00:21:54.740 --> 00:22:00.559
 And before he was begotten, okay.

00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.000
 For he was not unbegotten.

00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:08.920
 We are persecuted because we say the son has a beginning, but God is without a beginning.

00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:10.559
 So he goes on.

00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.339
 but I want to point something out here

00:22:13.339 --> 00:22:17.399
 that's so tricky that scholars themselves stumble on this.

00:22:18.740 --> 00:22:20.899
 So Arius very clearly here says

00:22:20.899 --> 00:22:22.839
 there was a time when the sun was not.

00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:25.619
 There was a time when Jesus did not exist

00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:27.659
 in any form or any way whatsoever.

00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:32.220
 But he says he's divine.

00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.500
 He says he's divine.

00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.220
 He says he's unchangeable, which is weird.

00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:39.519
 If you come into existence,

00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:40.720
 how can you be unchangeable?

00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.579
 But do you notice there's brackets

00:22:43.579 --> 00:22:46.180
 where it says, or parentheses,

00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:47.680
 full of grace and truth.

00:22:47.779 --> 00:22:48.779
 Do you see that line there?

00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.420
 Well, that line is not actually there

00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:56.559
 because what the Greek actually says,

00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:58.240
 and it's in multiple manuscripts,

00:22:58.539 --> 00:23:01.039
 there's no evidence for that phrase of grace and truth.

00:23:01.299 --> 00:23:05.299
 What it actually says is Arius calls Jesus fully divine.

00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.619
 That's what it says.

00:23:06.619 --> 00:23:08.440
 He says he's fully divine.

00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.980
 So here we have Arius, the great heretic,

00:23:12.299 --> 00:23:13.860
 who says that Jesus,

00:23:14.620 --> 00:23:16.539
 that allegedly says Jesus is not God.

00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.680
 Here saying he's fully God.

00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:20.820
 But then when he explains it,

00:23:21.620 --> 00:23:24.200
 it stopped, it doesn't make sense, right?

00:23:24.320 --> 00:23:25.700
 He came into being.

00:23:26.340 --> 00:23:28.360
 He, there was a time when he didn't exist.

00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.359
 You can see how difficult it would be

00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.219
 to have discussions with someone like this,

00:23:33.219 --> 00:23:35.699
 who's constantly moving the chess pieces around

00:23:35.699 --> 00:23:36.679
 in illegal ways.

00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:37.959
 You know, you're like, but you can't,

00:23:38.179 --> 00:23:39.159
 that's not what that word means.

00:23:39.639 --> 00:23:42.859
 And he just, he just keeps saying it.

00:23:43.659 --> 00:23:45.379
 And it's, it's difficult to negotiate.

00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:49.000
 Yeah.

00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:50.160
 Yes.

00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:50.340
 Yes.

00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:51.240
 Yes.

00:23:52.520 --> 00:23:56.440
 So, very difficult to talk about this.

00:23:56.860 --> 00:23:58.100
 Some vocabulary here.

00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.420
 He always talks about, you know,

00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:03.160
 the unbegotten,

00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.400
 this begetting language.

00:24:06.560 --> 00:24:07.960
 We're familiar with this

00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.980
 because Jesus in the scriptures

00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:12.720
 is called the only begotten,

00:24:12.840 --> 00:24:14.980
 like the unique, the only son.

00:24:15.819 --> 00:24:19.120
 And God the father is called unbegotten

00:24:19.120 --> 00:24:20.720
 because he wasn't, you know,

00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:22.180
 begotten in a way.

00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:24.400
 Now, these discussions we're having

00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:27.180
 about, about, you know,

00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.500
 the eternality of Jesus and things.

00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:33.180
 Well, Arius would probably say something.

00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:34.039
 He'd be like, well,

00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:35.819
 how can you be begotten

00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:38.579
 if Jesus is begotten?

00:24:38.639 --> 00:24:39.159
 We all agree.

00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:39.819
 We all agree.

00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:42.279
 So, Arius would probably say something like,

00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.359
 how can you,

00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:46.299
 someone be begotten

00:24:46.299 --> 00:24:47.939
 but be eternal at the same time?

00:24:48.399 --> 00:24:49.460
 How could you do that?

00:24:49.879 --> 00:24:50.659
 How's that possible?

00:24:51.419 --> 00:24:53.259
 For Arius, this is a contradiction.

00:24:54.419 --> 00:24:56.259
 He thinks it's totally contradictory

00:24:56.259 --> 00:24:58.819
 to be begotten but eternal.

00:24:59.899 --> 00:25:02.319
 He's also squirrely with his language.

00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.379
 Another area that he's squirrely

00:25:04.379 --> 00:25:05.619
 with his language is if you,

00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:08.399
 if you see in the handout,

00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:09.159
 where is it?

00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:10.000
 Now I'm losing it.

00:25:10.059 --> 00:25:11.659
 Ah, so right before the,

00:25:11.659 --> 00:25:12.819
 the full of grace and truth

00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:14.200
 where it actually says fully divine,

00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:16.740
 it says that he was begotten

00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:19.559
 before times and before ages.

00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:22.139
 Now, to me, I read that,

00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:22.939
 I say, he's eternal.

00:25:23.179 --> 00:25:23.460
 Yes.

00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:25.460
 But then he explicitly says,

00:25:25.579 --> 00:25:26.319
 oh, and there was a time

00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:26.859
 he didn't exist.

00:25:28.019 --> 00:25:29.839
 So he's constantly just

00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:31.399
 going back and forth

00:25:31.399 --> 00:25:32.740
 with this squirrely language

00:25:32.740 --> 00:25:34.420
 that feels contradictory.

00:25:35.380 --> 00:25:38.180
 So this question though,

00:25:38.299 --> 00:25:40.339
 of how can Jesus be eternal

00:25:40.339 --> 00:25:41.299
 but begotten

00:25:41.299 --> 00:25:43.980
 is a question that theologians

00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:44.839
 will need to answer.

00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:46.019
 How is that possible?

00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:47.700
 What do you guys think?

00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:49.559
 Is it a contradiction?

00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:50.079
 Is it a mystery?

00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:50.359
 Yes.

00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:52.019
 Is it possible that

00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:53.539
 if he was referring to the son

00:25:53.539 --> 00:25:55.539
 in the incarnate form,

00:25:56.619 --> 00:26:00.219
 that says this glorious divine form?

00:26:00.219 --> 00:26:00.319
 Yeah.

00:26:01.679 --> 00:26:03.159
 Sometimes people do,

00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:04.639
 are referring to it that way.

00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:05.959
 But I think,

00:26:06.500 --> 00:26:07.539
 that's a very good,

00:26:07.579 --> 00:26:08.259
 very good observation.

00:26:08.539 --> 00:26:12.099
 I think theologians

00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:13.740
 still want to use the term

00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:16.339
 only begotten of Jesus

00:26:16.339 --> 00:26:18.419
 before the incarnation as well.

00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:21.500
 Is it referring to divine privilege

00:26:21.500 --> 00:26:22.880
 rather than divine nature?

00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:24.560
 Can you explain a little more?

00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:27.960
 So when Jesus sends to his throne,

00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:29.920
 it says that the father,

00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:32.460
 in Hebrews,

00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:35.480
 he quotes the begotteness language

00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:36.200
 of the Psalms.

00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:37.779
 It's this idea that Jesus sends,

00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:40.440
 he's begotten first in privilege.

00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:41.240
 He's the woman.

00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:42.100
 Okay.

00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:43.060
 But I mean,

00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.060
 that's what you're...

00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.340
 Well,

00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:46.720
 so very good observation.

00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.360
 So you can,

00:26:48.500 --> 00:26:49.500
 if you think about

00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.539
 in the ancient world,

00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:52.240
 so in the ancient world,

00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:53.140
 you would have an emperor

00:26:53.140 --> 00:26:53.680
 or a king.

00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.500
 And very frequently,

00:26:56.500 --> 00:26:57.180
 you know,

00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:59.339
 the throne would be passed down

00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:01.059
 to the firstborn son

00:27:01.059 --> 00:27:01.720
 or something like that.

00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:02.819
 But didn't always happen.

00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:04.420
 Didn't always have firstborn sons.

00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:06.120
 So it was very common

00:27:06.120 --> 00:27:06.740
 in the ancient world

00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:09.819
 that you would adopt a son.

00:27:09.819 --> 00:27:13.359
 And that person you adopt

00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:14.299
 would become,

00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:16.139
 would have this privilege,

00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:17.099
 this prerogative

00:27:17.099 --> 00:27:18.720
 that they would inherit.

00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:19.919
 They would kind of inherit

00:27:19.919 --> 00:27:20.779
 your status.

00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:25.960
 And so you could view

00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:27.419
 the begotten language

00:27:27.419 --> 00:27:28.919
 as one like that.

00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:30.220
 It's not talking about

00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:33.200
 any kind of natural

00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:33.819
 begettiness,

00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:35.980
 but more of a status

00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:36.819
 or a positionality

00:27:37.419 --> 00:27:38.460
 that's going on.

00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:39.720
 That's one possibility.

00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:41.840
 So that Jesus always

00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:42.660
 had the position

00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:43.980
 of being the firstborn

00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:45.240
 in the sense of title,

00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:46.259
 in the sense of rank,

00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:47.120
 in the sense of,

00:27:47.120 --> 00:27:50.440
 of how a emperor

00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:51.420
 might designate,

00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:52.240
 might have someone

00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:53.900
 who's their firstborn son,

00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:54.579
 who's not actually

00:27:54.579 --> 00:27:55.480
 naturally their son,

00:27:55.579 --> 00:27:55.940
 but just,

00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:57.340
 that's one possibility.

00:27:57.840 --> 00:27:59.340
 But I don't think

00:27:59.340 --> 00:27:59.880
 that's enough

00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:01.180
 because then you could argue,

00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:02.319
 oh, then Jesus

00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:03.840
 actually isn't nature

00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:05.140
 by nature divine.

00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:06.700
 He was just adopted.

00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:08.940
 He was just selected.

00:28:10.460 --> 00:28:10.720
 So,

00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.220
 I think

00:28:13.220 --> 00:28:15.120
 the solution to this

00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:16.220
 conundrum

00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:17.160
 is that

00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:18.039
 we have to stop

00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:19.160
 thinking of God

00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:21.120
 purely in physical terms

00:28:21.120 --> 00:28:22.660
 because physically,

00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:25.420
 from mammalian biology,

00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:26.220
 human biology,

00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.140
 you can't have

00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:29.779
 a child

00:28:29.779 --> 00:28:30.700
 that exists

00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:32.700
 from the very moment

00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:34.420
 their parent existed.

00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:35.779
 you just can't,

00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:36.800
 you can't do that,

00:28:36.860 --> 00:28:37.060
 right?

00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:37.779
 But,

00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:39.380
 that's not,

00:28:39.580 --> 00:28:41.100
 God is not biology,

00:28:41.360 --> 00:28:41.560
 right?

00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:42.660
 He's beyond biology.

00:28:43.060 --> 00:28:43.400
 And,

00:28:43.539 --> 00:28:44.580
 you can have

00:28:44.580 --> 00:28:45.880
 examples of,

00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:46.380
 for instance,

00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:47.800
 if you have a tree,

00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:48.440
 for instance,

00:28:48.620 --> 00:28:50.080
 and you have a huge limb

00:28:50.080 --> 00:28:50.720
 of the tree,

00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:51.920
 but the tree's eternal,

00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:52.380
 right?

00:28:52.580 --> 00:28:54.240
 But the tree sprouted the limb.

00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:55.400
 But if the tree's eternal,

00:28:56.080 --> 00:28:56.480
 then,

00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:58.080
 the limb is eternal.

00:28:58.640 --> 00:28:59.200
 Even though,

00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:00.800
 does that make sense?

00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:01.399
 So,

00:29:01.539 --> 00:29:02.299
 you have something

00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:04.019
 that is kind of

00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:06.079
 sprouted from,

00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:07.659
 but in an eternal way.

00:29:08.539 --> 00:29:09.680
 That's how theologians

00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:10.519
 will often explain

00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:11.339
 this idea

00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:13.240
 of begottenness.

00:29:14.159 --> 00:29:15.000
 But you see,

00:29:15.139 --> 00:29:16.460
 Arius is fixated

00:29:16.460 --> 00:29:18.599
 on these kinds of issues here

00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:20.200
 and is trying to

00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:22.200
 find solutions,

00:29:22.399 --> 00:29:23.000
 but his solutions

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:24.279
 just create many more problems.

00:29:24.399 --> 00:29:24.639
 It means

00:29:24.639 --> 00:29:26.599
 Jesus didn't always exist.

00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:27.259
 It means God

00:29:27.259 --> 00:29:28.220
 didn't have wisdom

00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:28.960
 or he has to

00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:29.980
 redefine wisdom.

00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:31.099
 It means that

00:29:31.099 --> 00:29:31.799
 the father

00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:33.000
 wasn't always the father.

00:29:33.460 --> 00:29:33.920
 It means,

00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:34.440
 of course,

00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:35.000
 the big one,

00:29:35.259 --> 00:29:36.420
 God didn't actually

00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:37.259
 become human.

00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:38.860
 He didn't actually

00:29:38.860 --> 00:29:39.759
 die for our sins.

00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:40.860
 God sent someone else

00:29:40.860 --> 00:29:41.240
 to do it.

00:29:41.660 --> 00:29:42.360
 That's what Arius'

00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:44.160
 theology implies.

00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:45.079
 Matt?

00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:48.500
 Did you read something

00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:49.360
 that indicated

00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:50.339
 that Arius

00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:51.700
 called his bishop

00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:52.200
 or whatever

00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:52.799
 a heretic?

00:29:54.460 --> 00:29:55.019
 Yes,

00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:56.420
 he does think

00:29:56.420 --> 00:29:57.880
 of him as heretic.

00:29:57.880 --> 00:29:57.860
 So,

00:29:57.860 --> 00:29:58.779
 Arius is saying,

00:29:58.940 --> 00:29:59.180
 hey,

00:29:59.180 --> 00:30:00.000
 people who believe

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.940
 differently than me

00:30:00.940 --> 00:30:02.519
 are really in a bad

00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:03.519
 spiritual state

00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:04.440
 and vice versa.

00:30:04.700 --> 00:30:04.960
 Correct.

00:30:05.620 --> 00:30:06.700
 Were there people

00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:07.380
 at the time

00:30:07.380 --> 00:30:08.039
 who kind of

00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:08.840
 took the attitude

00:30:08.840 --> 00:30:10.580
 Paul does somewhere

00:30:10.580 --> 00:30:11.680
 saying,

00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:12.200
 you know,

00:30:12.259 --> 00:30:13.740
 this is the way it is,

00:30:13.860 --> 00:30:15.000
 but if you disagree

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:15.640
 with me,

00:30:15.740 --> 00:30:15.980
 you know,

00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:16.840
 God will make that

00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:17.820
 clear to you sometime.

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:18.779
 That's a great question.

00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:20.400
 Kind of a secondary issue.

00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.799
 Were there people

00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:22.620
 who said,

00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:22.980
 hey,

00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:23.480
 you know,

00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:25.240
 this is not

00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:25.900
 the biggest deal.

00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:27.240
 We can disagree.

00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:27.259
 Yeah,

00:30:27.259 --> 00:30:27.460
 yeah,

00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:27.660
 yeah.

00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:29.140
 Or was it just

00:30:29.140 --> 00:30:29.559
 boom?

00:30:30.500 --> 00:30:31.700
 You do get people

00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:33.420
 who say things

00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:33.980
 like that.

00:30:35.259 --> 00:30:37.180
 One thing

00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:38.019
 to keep in mind

00:30:38.019 --> 00:30:38.940
 is that

00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:40.440
 the peacemaking

00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:40.880
 attitude

00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:41.579
 of,

00:30:41.819 --> 00:30:42.819
 well,

00:30:42.940 --> 00:30:43.160
 you know,

00:30:43.220 --> 00:30:43.700
 we'll just agree

00:30:43.700 --> 00:30:44.099
 to disagree.

00:30:44.360 --> 00:30:45.299
 Remember that Arius

00:30:45.299 --> 00:30:46.380
 is like composing

00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:47.819
 songs designed

00:30:47.819 --> 00:30:48.940
 to stir people up.

00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:50.640
 And so he's

00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.500
 in a very

00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:52.240
 different position

00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:53.940
 than some peasant

00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:54.640
 in the countryside

00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:56.480
 who is just saying,

00:30:56.620 --> 00:30:56.799
 you know,

00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:57.880
 this is beyond me.

00:30:58.019 --> 00:30:58.200
 Like,

00:30:58.320 --> 00:30:59.240
 you're talking

00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:00.160
 about all this stuff

00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:00.920
 I don't understand,

00:31:01.100 --> 00:31:01.740
 unbegotten,

00:31:01.820 --> 00:31:02.220
 begotten.

00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:02.720
 Just,

00:31:02.980 --> 00:31:03.420
 I just,

00:31:03.600 --> 00:31:04.580
 I'm going to worship Jesus.

00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:05.299
 He's my savior

00:31:05.299 --> 00:31:05.880
 and that's it.

00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.400
 That's a very

00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:08.259
 different thing

00:31:08.259 --> 00:31:10.180
 than what Arius

00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:10.940
 is doing here.

00:31:11.580 --> 00:31:12.660
 And I think

00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:13.600
 in our Christian life

00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:14.299
 we need to be

00:31:14.299 --> 00:31:15.100
 very aware

00:31:15.100 --> 00:31:16.279
 of those two distinctions.

00:31:16.539 --> 00:31:16.720
 That

00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.380
 we should not,

00:31:19.860 --> 00:31:20.100
 I mean,

00:31:20.140 --> 00:31:21.200
 already we can see,

00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:21.400
 like,

00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:21.980
 we're really getting

00:31:21.980 --> 00:31:22.640
 into the weeds here

00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:23.200
 with terminology.

00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:24.680
 It's going to get worse,

00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:25.160
 by the way.

00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:26.420
 We're going to have

00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:27.039
 more,

00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:28.240
 more of these

00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:29.319
 technical terms

00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:29.960
 coming up.

00:31:30.819 --> 00:31:31.220
 But

00:31:31.220 --> 00:31:32.680
 that's very different

00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:34.039
 than the humble peasant

00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:35.220
 who's just a farmer

00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:35.860
 doing his,

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:36.680
 doing his thing.

00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:38.420
 That's why I mentioned

00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:39.860
 that about the Aryan church

00:31:39.860 --> 00:31:40.620
 amongst the Germans.

00:31:40.779 --> 00:31:40.900
 I mean,

00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:41.319
 there would have been

00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:42.220
 tens of thousands

00:31:42.220 --> 00:31:42.960
 of these peasants.

00:31:43.600 --> 00:31:43.819
 You know,

00:31:44.600 --> 00:31:45.559
 the gospel rolls

00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:46.079
 into town,

00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:46.639
 they show up

00:31:46.639 --> 00:31:47.259
 at the only church

00:31:47.259 --> 00:31:48.539
 they can even get to

00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:50.419
 and technically

00:31:50.419 --> 00:31:51.919
 it's part of this Aryan church

00:31:51.919 --> 00:31:53.220
 but for all we know

00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:53.639
 they just,

00:31:53.819 --> 00:31:54.259
 they believe,

00:31:54.439 --> 00:31:55.460
 they didn't understand

00:31:55.460 --> 00:31:55.799
 any of this

00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:56.379
 or it wasn't even

00:31:56.379 --> 00:31:57.220
 talked about

00:31:57.220 --> 00:31:58.259
 and it was just,

00:31:58.500 --> 00:31:58.720
 you know.

00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:00.119
 Are there any Aryans

00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.240
 today that you can,

00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:03.139
 usually people will say

00:32:03.139 --> 00:32:04.099
 Jehovah's Witnesses

00:32:04.099 --> 00:32:05.539
 are Aryans

00:32:05.539 --> 00:32:07.419
 but the thing

00:32:07.419 --> 00:32:08.819
 with Jehovah's Witnesses

00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:09.899
 there's two distinctions

00:32:09.899 --> 00:32:10.559
 I want to make.

00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:11.960
 one is that

00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:13.679
 they do tend

00:32:13.679 --> 00:32:15.559
 to have,

00:32:16.899 --> 00:32:18.299
 I don't want to be

00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:19.799
 needlessly pejorative

00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:20.200
 but like,

00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:21.879
 kind of like cult-like behavior

00:32:21.879 --> 00:32:22.679
 it's very difficult

00:32:22.679 --> 00:32:23.579
 to leave

00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:25.819
 and to inquire

00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:26.460
 and have,

00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:28.819
 and do research

00:32:28.819 --> 00:32:29.759
 and ask questions

00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:30.299
 it's very difficult

00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:30.779
 to do that

00:32:30.779 --> 00:32:31.599
 but secondly,

00:32:32.179 --> 00:32:33.359
 they wouldn't agree

00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:33.879
 with Aryan,

00:32:33.879 --> 00:32:34.879
 they wouldn't call Jesus

00:32:34.879 --> 00:32:35.559
 fully divine.

00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:36.879
 they wouldn't say that.

00:32:38.500 --> 00:32:38.740
 They,

00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:41.039
 so they're more extreme

00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:42.240
 than Aryan seems

00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:43.240
 to have been.

00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:45.720
 My understanding is

00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:46.019
 I'm not,

00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:46.740
 I'm not an expert

00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:48.139
 on Jehovah's Witnesses.

00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:49.240
 Okay,

00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:49.799
 so,

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:51.799
 we read a little bit

00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:53.599
 of Aryan's confession.

00:32:54.019 --> 00:32:54.740
 So now,

00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:55.879
 what I want to do

00:32:55.879 --> 00:32:56.519
 is

00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:57.819
 look at what

00:32:57.819 --> 00:32:58.619
 the Council of Nicaea

00:32:58.619 --> 00:32:59.899
 has to say.

00:33:00.919 --> 00:33:01.399
 So,

00:33:01.679 --> 00:33:02.679
 that same packet

00:33:02.679 --> 00:33:03.839
 that had Aryan's confession,

00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:04.879
 I put it in the wrong order.

00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:06.040
 I should have put Aryan's first

00:33:06.040 --> 00:33:06.860
 but at the beginning

00:33:06.860 --> 00:33:08.360
 we have here

00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:10.620
 the letter of Eusebius of Caesarea

00:33:10.620 --> 00:33:12.520
 describing the Council of Nicaea

00:33:12.520 --> 00:33:14.720
 and then on page 336

00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.060
 we have the text

00:33:16.060 --> 00:33:16.600
 where,

00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:18.500
 where Eusebius starts

00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:19.420
 describing the Council.

00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:20.960
 So,

00:33:21.100 --> 00:33:22.120
 this is awesome.

00:33:23.060 --> 00:33:24.100
 Eusebius of Caesarea

00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:24.740
 is

00:33:24.740 --> 00:33:25.920
 literally,

00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:27.100
 I'm not exaggerating,

00:33:27.340 --> 00:33:28.520
 the father of history.

00:33:28.860 --> 00:33:29.580
 This guy

00:33:29.580 --> 00:33:31.360
 created the historical method.

00:33:31.840 --> 00:33:33.220
 So much of what we know

00:33:33.220 --> 00:33:34.340
 about ancient history

00:33:34.339 --> 00:33:35.879
 is because of him.

00:33:36.659 --> 00:33:37.000
 So,

00:33:37.139 --> 00:33:37.959
 having him,

00:33:38.059 --> 00:33:38.679
 he attended

00:33:38.679 --> 00:33:39.639
 the Council of Nicaea,

00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:41.299
 he wrote a letter

00:33:41.299 --> 00:33:43.279
 immediately afterwards

00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:44.419
 that he sent back

00:33:44.419 --> 00:33:45.059
 to his church

00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:47.119
 describing the Council of Nicaea

00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:48.339
 and that letter

00:33:48.339 --> 00:33:48.899
 is preserved

00:33:48.899 --> 00:33:50.319
 in multiple manuscript

00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:51.299
 traditions.

00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:51.720
 So,

00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:52.879
 we've got really good

00:33:52.879 --> 00:33:54.240
 manuscript tradition of it.

00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:54.480
 So,

00:33:54.619 --> 00:33:55.299
 this is like

00:33:55.299 --> 00:33:56.240
 A plus stuff here

00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:57.359
 in terms of historical

00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.339
 veracity.

00:33:59.199 --> 00:34:00.399
 What we're going to find

00:34:00.399 --> 00:34:00.779
 though

00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:01.679
 is that

00:34:01.679 --> 00:34:03.139
 the Council of Nicaea

00:34:03.139 --> 00:34:05.119
 is a little more complicated

00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:06.039
 than you might have,

00:34:06.099 --> 00:34:07.099
 than you might have imagined.

00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:07.879
 So,

00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:09.639
 in his introductory paragraph

00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:10.460
 he just says,

00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:10.679
 hey,

00:34:10.759 --> 00:34:11.900
 I wanted to send you this letter

00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:12.619
 because rumors

00:34:12.619 --> 00:34:13.480
 often spread

00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:14.279
 and I just want to

00:34:14.279 --> 00:34:14.940
 let you know

00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:15.440
 what happened

00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:16.079
 and then if we

00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:17.440
 go to the next page,

00:34:17.500 --> 00:34:19.539
 so we're on 337 now,

00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:23.239
 what Eusebius says,

00:34:23.759 --> 00:34:25.219
 he says this.

00:34:25.219 --> 00:34:27.599
 He's going to articulate

00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.139
 the creed of his church.

00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:29.439
 So,

00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:30.500
 he re-articulates

00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:31.099
 the creed

00:34:31.099 --> 00:34:32.059
 that his church

00:34:32.059 --> 00:34:33.659
 used to say

00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:35.319
 and then he's going

00:34:35.319 --> 00:34:36.179
 to compare this

00:34:36.179 --> 00:34:37.139
 with the Nicene Creed.

00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:37.919
 So,

00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:38.619
 this is a creed

00:34:38.619 --> 00:34:39.539
 his church used to say,

00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:40.799
 as I received my tradition

00:34:40.799 --> 00:34:42.079
 from the bishops before me

00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:43.619
 both in my first instruction

00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:44.419
 when I was baptized.

00:34:44.659 --> 00:34:44.759
 So,

00:34:44.859 --> 00:34:45.259
 interestingly,

00:34:45.500 --> 00:34:46.299
 he was taught

00:34:46.299 --> 00:34:47.339
 this creed at baptism

00:34:47.339 --> 00:34:48.639
 and as I learned

00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:49.579
 from the divine scriptures,

00:34:49.980 --> 00:34:50.799
 the creed is also

00:34:50.799 --> 00:34:52.480
 derived from the scriptures

00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:53.799
 and as I believe

00:34:53.799 --> 00:34:54.480
 and taught

00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:55.260
 in the office

00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:55.960
 of presbyter

00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:56.960
 and episcopate.

00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:57.679
 That means bishop.

00:34:58.420 --> 00:34:58.719
 So,

00:34:59.340 --> 00:35:00.300
 still believing,

00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:01.219
 I present to you

00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:01.820
 my creed

00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:02.440
 which is this.

00:35:02.539 --> 00:35:02.980
 Here it goes.

00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:04.079
 So,

00:35:04.139 --> 00:35:05.159
 this creed is probably

00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.420
 from the year 300 or so

00:35:07.420 --> 00:35:08.659
 when Eusebius was baptized.

00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.699
 We believe in one God,

00:35:10.820 --> 00:35:11.440
 Father Almighty,

00:35:11.699 --> 00:35:12.679
 the maker of all things

00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:13.480
 visible and invisible

00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:15.619
 and in one Lord Jesus Christ,

00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:16.559
 the word of God,

00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:17.780
 God of God,

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:18.599
 light of light,

00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:19.599
 life of life,

00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:20.519
 unique son

00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:21.740
 or only begotten son,

00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:23.659
 first born of all creation,

00:35:23.659 --> 00:35:25.139
 begotten of the Father

00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:26.359
 before all ages

00:35:26.359 --> 00:35:27.399
 through whom also

00:35:27.399 --> 00:35:28.699
 all things came to be,

00:35:29.139 --> 00:35:30.159
 who for salvation

00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:31.279
 was incarnate

00:35:31.279 --> 00:35:32.319
 and dwelt among men

00:35:32.319 --> 00:35:32.859
 and suffered

00:35:32.859 --> 00:35:34.359
 and rose on the third day

00:35:34.359 --> 00:35:35.739
 and ascended to the Father

00:35:35.739 --> 00:35:36.599
 and will come again

00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:37.759
 with glory to judge

00:35:37.759 --> 00:35:38.599
 the living and the dead.

00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:40.379
 We also believe

00:35:40.379 --> 00:35:41.339
 in one Holy Spirit,

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.159
 believing that each of these

00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:44.259
 is and exists,

00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:46.019
 the Father truly is Father,

00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:47.319
 the Son truly is Son,

00:35:47.399 --> 00:35:48.579
 the Holy Spirit truly

00:35:48.579 --> 00:35:50.119
 Holy Spirit.

00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:52.400
 As also our Lord said,

00:35:52.699 --> 00:35:53.420
 when sending forth

00:35:53.420 --> 00:35:54.639
 his disciples for the preaching,

00:35:54.980 --> 00:35:56.199
 go and make disciples

00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:56.960
 of all nations,

00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:58.440
 baptizing them

00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:59.279
 in the name of the Father

00:35:59.279 --> 00:36:00.139
 and of the Son

00:36:00.139 --> 00:36:01.619
 and of the Holy Spirit,

00:36:01.659 --> 00:36:02.880
 of which I firmly assert

00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:04.339
 that that is what I hold

00:36:04.339 --> 00:36:05.880
 and so I am convinced.

00:36:06.799 --> 00:36:08.759
 He quotes that passage

00:36:08.759 --> 00:36:10.339
 because Jesus accords

00:36:10.339 --> 00:36:11.739
 one name to the Father,

00:36:11.859 --> 00:36:12.579
 Son, and Holy Spirit.

00:36:12.779 --> 00:36:13.380
 He doesn't say,

00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:15.819
 go forth and make disciples,

00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:17.599
 baptizing them in the names

00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:18.579
 of the Father,

00:36:18.699 --> 00:36:19.480
 Son, and Holy Spirit.

00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:20.279
 It's one name.

00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:22.559
 And notice he says,

00:36:22.659 --> 00:36:23.880
 Jesus is the Word of God.

00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:24.940
 He's God of God.

00:36:25.019 --> 00:36:26.519
 He's begotten of the Father

00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:28.039
 before all ages.

00:36:29.339 --> 00:36:31.239
 But as we've read though,

00:36:31.739 --> 00:36:33.239
 Arius might be willing

00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:34.079
 to say all that

00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:35.819
 because he defines

00:36:35.819 --> 00:36:37.299
 before all ages differently

00:36:37.299 --> 00:36:38.519
 than I would define

00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:39.360
 before all ages.

00:36:40.380 --> 00:36:42.880
 And he also defines

00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:43.980
 God differently.

00:36:44.380 --> 00:36:45.380
 And the one thing

00:36:45.380 --> 00:36:46.980
 he probably wouldn't agree with

00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:48.619
 is where Eusebius says,

00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:50.219
 the Father is truly Father,

00:36:50.300 --> 00:36:51.360
 the Son truly Son,

00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:52.099
 meaning the Father

00:36:52.099 --> 00:36:53.539
 probably is always the Father.

00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:54.659
 Anyway,

00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:56.380
 that's Eusebius' Creed.

00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:58.360
 He goes on to say

00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.099
 that he offered this Creed

00:37:00.099 --> 00:37:00.980
 as a model

00:37:00.980 --> 00:37:02.300
 for the Nicene Creed.

00:37:02.420 --> 00:37:03.260
 When they were at the council,

00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:03.619
 he said,

00:37:03.699 --> 00:37:03.860
 hey,

00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.219
 let's use this Creed

00:37:06.219 --> 00:37:09.679
 for our conciliar Creed.

00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:10.679
 Let's do it.

00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:11.880
 And if you know

00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:12.539
 the Nicene Creed,

00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:13.780
 you see that this actually

00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:14.760
 looks very similar to it.

00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:15.500
 It's very, very similar.

00:37:15.500 --> 00:37:18.699
 And there was some

00:37:18.699 --> 00:37:19.639
 back and forth

00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:24.280
 and they decided

00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:26.380
 to make one or two

00:37:26.380 --> 00:37:27.960
 significant changes

00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.960
 to the Creed.

00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:31.760
 And they made these changes

00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:33.219
 to try and make sure,

00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:35.639
 to try and eliminate

00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.159
 Arius' word twisting.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:39.460
 So he goes on.

00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:40.179
 Let's,

00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:40.920
 we're down at the bottom

00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:41.840
 of 337,

00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.019
 the final paragraph,

00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:45.740
 when I had presented

00:37:45.740 --> 00:37:46.840
 this statement of faith

00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:47.800
 there at the council,

00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:48.539
 there was no room

00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:49.100
 for opposition.

00:37:49.780 --> 00:37:50.059
 Indeed,

00:37:50.180 --> 00:37:52.280
 our most pious emperor himself,

00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:53.300
 that's Constantine,

00:37:54.180 --> 00:37:56.200
 testified that its contents

00:37:56.200 --> 00:37:57.019
 were very sound.

00:37:57.440 --> 00:37:58.600
 He further confessed

00:37:58.600 --> 00:37:59.360
 that he himself

00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:00.320
 was so convinced

00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:02.120
 and urged all

00:38:02.120 --> 00:38:03.059
 to agree to it

00:38:03.059 --> 00:38:04.300
 and to subscribe

00:38:04.300 --> 00:38:04.880
 and assent

00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:06.220
 to this very teaching

00:38:06.219 --> 00:38:07.739
 with the addition

00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:10.259
 of one word,

00:38:10.980 --> 00:38:12.699
 consubstantial.

00:38:13.419 --> 00:38:13.959
 Okay,

00:38:14.059 --> 00:38:14.579
 we got another

00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:15.559
 vocabulary word here.

00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:16.659
 Now,

00:38:16.799 --> 00:38:18.000
 I'm emphasizing this

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:18.799
 because as you get

00:38:18.799 --> 00:38:20.219
 into Trinitarian theology,

00:38:20.359 --> 00:38:21.159
 this word comes up

00:38:21.159 --> 00:38:22.899
 all the time.

00:38:24.500 --> 00:38:25.259
 Consubstantial,

00:38:25.799 --> 00:38:28.500
 which in Greek

00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:30.879
 is homoousios,

00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.079
 which means

00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:35.400
 of the same substance,

00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:36.900
 of the same substance,

00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:37.840
 different

00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.039
 from homoousios,

00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:40.680
 which means

00:38:40.680 --> 00:38:41.800
 of similar substance.

00:38:42.019 --> 00:38:42.140
 So,

00:38:42.180 --> 00:38:42.559
 this means

00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:43.920
 the same,

00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:46.140
 whoops,

00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:47.740
 the same substance

00:38:47.740 --> 00:38:49.820
 or essence

00:38:49.820 --> 00:38:52.079
 or nature.

00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.360
 and

00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:58.519
 I want to ask you,

00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.059
 pretend you've never heard,

00:39:01.099 --> 00:39:01.840
 if you've looked

00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:02.699
 at Trinitarian theology,

00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:03.579
 you might have heard

00:39:03.579 --> 00:39:04.340
 of this word before,

00:39:04.460 --> 00:39:05.159
 consubstantial,

00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:05.360
 right?

00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:06.619
 Pretend like you've

00:39:06.619 --> 00:39:07.340
 never heard it before.

00:39:07.779 --> 00:39:07.920
 Okay,

00:39:08.340 --> 00:39:09.980
 if I said,

00:39:11.059 --> 00:39:11.319
 oh,

00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:12.779
 this is consubstantial,

00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:13.819
 X is consubstantial

00:39:13.819 --> 00:39:14.199
 with Y,

00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:15.799
 what would you think

00:39:15.799 --> 00:39:17.219
 I meant

00:39:17.219 --> 00:39:18.880
 by that?

00:39:19.279 --> 00:39:19.719
 Or,

00:39:19.860 --> 00:39:20.519
 if instead of

00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:21.679
 using the actual word,

00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:22.440
 if I kind of

00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:23.079
 made the phrase,

00:39:23.399 --> 00:39:24.399
 this is of the same

00:39:24.399 --> 00:39:25.779
 substance,

00:39:26.500 --> 00:39:27.159
 what would that mean?

00:39:29.279 --> 00:39:30.719
 Made from the same stuff.

00:39:30.919 --> 00:39:31.179
 Okay,

00:39:31.319 --> 00:39:31.639
 oh,

00:39:31.759 --> 00:39:32.859
 made from the same stuff.

00:39:33.099 --> 00:39:33.699
 I like,

00:39:33.799 --> 00:39:35.000
 I like that.

00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:36.159
 Because,

00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:38.379
 let's,

00:39:38.419 --> 00:39:39.599
 let's take that definition,

00:39:39.779 --> 00:39:40.239
 it's a very,

00:39:40.339 --> 00:39:40.940
 it's a very good

00:39:40.940 --> 00:39:41.639
 first reaction,

00:39:41.919 --> 00:39:43.139
 and apply that to Jesus.

00:39:43.259 --> 00:39:43.759
 Are we saying

00:39:43.759 --> 00:39:44.960
 Jesus is made

00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:46.619
 from the same stuff

00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:47.139
 as the Father?

00:39:49.059 --> 00:39:49.779
 Do you see

00:39:49.779 --> 00:39:50.659
 the difficulty there?

00:39:50.659 --> 00:39:51.859
 Because,

00:39:52.219 --> 00:39:55.259
 so,

00:39:55.619 --> 00:39:57.159
 so,

00:39:57.460 --> 00:39:58.219
 and that's

00:39:58.219 --> 00:39:59.079
 very,

00:39:59.420 --> 00:39:59.960
 very good

00:39:59.960 --> 00:40:01.079
 because people,

00:40:01.460 --> 00:40:02.159
 some people,

00:40:02.299 --> 00:40:03.359
 as we keep reading

00:40:03.359 --> 00:40:03.899
 in the letter,

00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:05.339
 interpreted it

00:40:05.339 --> 00:40:06.879
 in that kind

00:40:06.879 --> 00:40:07.460
 of way.

00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:08.579
 Although,

00:40:08.859 --> 00:40:09.839
 for them,

00:40:09.899 --> 00:40:10.440
 it was

00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:12.319
 more a physical thing.

00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:12.619
 So,

00:40:12.699 --> 00:40:13.239
 instead of

00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:14.619
 Jesus being created,

00:40:14.619 --> 00:40:15.219
 it was like

00:40:15.219 --> 00:40:16.420
 acting like Jesus

00:40:16.420 --> 00:40:18.880
 was a physical substance,

00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:20.260
 as if the divine nature

00:40:20.260 --> 00:40:21.740
 is similar to some kind

00:40:21.740 --> 00:40:23.240
 of physical element

00:40:23.240 --> 00:40:24.740
 that you can cut up

00:40:24.740 --> 00:40:26.360
 and derive things from,

00:40:26.700 --> 00:40:27.059
 which,

00:40:27.420 --> 00:40:28.119
 divinity

00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:29.200
 is not like that.

00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:30.159
 God isn't existing

00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:31.300
 in our plane of reality.

00:40:31.700 --> 00:40:32.200
 He's not,

00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:32.440
 you know,

00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.220
 the element 145

00:40:34.220 --> 00:40:35.320
 where you can do stuff

00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:35.760
 with it.

00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:36.740
 And so,

00:40:37.240 --> 00:40:38.880
 people were

00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:40.080
 very concerned

00:40:40.080 --> 00:40:42.300
 that this idea

00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:43.760
 communicated the idea

00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:45.100
 that God was somehow

00:40:45.100 --> 00:40:46.340
 physical

00:40:46.340 --> 00:40:47.720
 or corporeal,

00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:48.260
 which,

00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:49.060
 if you're in

00:40:49.060 --> 00:40:50.320
 a polytheistic environment

00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:51.580
 where people are bowing down

00:40:51.580 --> 00:40:52.660
 to physical idols,

00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:53.920
 is a big no-no.

00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:55.220
 That's a big no-no.

00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:56.540
 You do not want

00:40:56.540 --> 00:40:58.040
 the Christian God

00:40:58.040 --> 00:40:58.980
 to be thought of

00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.460
 as analogous

00:41:00.460 --> 00:41:01.220
 to an idol

00:41:01.220 --> 00:41:02.380
 that someone would set up

00:41:02.380 --> 00:41:02.780
 in their house

00:41:02.780 --> 00:41:04.200
 and they could cut a piece off

00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:05.140
 and give it to someone else.

00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:06.740
 They don't want that.

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.060
 And Eusebius himself

00:41:09.060 --> 00:41:10.740
 is very concerned

00:41:10.740 --> 00:41:11.900
 about this term.

00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.120
 He goes on to say

00:41:15.120 --> 00:41:17.000
 at the bottom of 337

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.600
 that the emperor said

00:41:19.600 --> 00:41:20.980
 the sun is not to be called

00:41:20.980 --> 00:41:21.860
 consubstantial

00:41:21.860 --> 00:41:23.300
 according to what happens

00:41:23.300 --> 00:41:24.260
 to bodies.

00:41:25.160 --> 00:41:25.300
 So,

00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:27.120
 Constantine is saying,

00:41:27.220 --> 00:41:27.880
 I don't mean this

00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:28.700
 in a physical way.

00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:29.760
 I don't mean this.

00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:30.720
 I know you might think of it

00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:31.260
 in a physical way.

00:41:31.340 --> 00:41:32.360
 I'm not thinking of it

00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:33.079
 in a physical way.

00:41:33.660 --> 00:41:34.640
 Top of 338.

00:41:34.720 --> 00:41:35.860
 Nor is he constituted

00:41:35.860 --> 00:41:36.840
 by a division

00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:38.380
 or by some kind of

00:41:38.380 --> 00:41:39.120
 cutting up

00:41:39.120 --> 00:41:39.940
 of the father

00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:41.559
 nor can the immaterial

00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:42.360
 and intellectual

00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:43.880
 and bodiless nature

00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:44.400
 undergo

00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:45.480
 what happens to bodies

00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:46.660
 but these things

00:41:46.660 --> 00:41:47.519
 must be conceived

00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:48.460
 of in divine

00:41:48.460 --> 00:41:51.280
 and in ineffable terms

00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:52.059
 meaning beyond

00:41:52.059 --> 00:41:52.980
 our speech.

00:41:53.680 --> 00:41:53.860
 So,

00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:54.840
 the emperor is saying,

00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:55.079
 look,

00:41:55.160 --> 00:41:55.940
 we don't mean this

00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:56.660
 in a physical way.

00:41:56.780 --> 00:41:57.420
 We mean it

00:41:57.420 --> 00:41:58.400
 in that they're sharing

00:41:58.400 --> 00:41:59.599
 the same nature

00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:00.760
 and the nature

00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:01.980
 happens to be divine.

00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:04.119
 If we used this term

00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:05.480
 with like a rock

00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:05.900
 so,

00:42:06.260 --> 00:42:08.260
 this granite rock

00:42:08.260 --> 00:42:09.099
 is consubstantial

00:42:09.099 --> 00:42:09.940
 with this granite rock

00:42:09.940 --> 00:42:11.159
 because I cut it off

00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.240
 and that's one thing

00:42:12.240 --> 00:42:13.500
 but we're talking

00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:14.659
 about divine things here.

00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:15.440
 So,

00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:15.780
 then,

00:42:16.179 --> 00:42:17.699
 they drew up

00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:19.840
 the Nicene Creed

00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:21.699
 on 338 Corbin.

00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:22.960
 Emperor is now

00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:23.800
 in church office.

00:42:24.260 --> 00:42:25.420
 It's a great question.

00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:26.840
 How much authority

00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:27.539
 did Constantine

00:42:27.539 --> 00:42:28.900
 have over the church

00:42:28.900 --> 00:42:29.099
 Yes.

00:42:29.740 --> 00:42:30.059
 So,

00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.159
 it makes me uncomfortable

00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:37.380
 to think of Constantine

00:42:37.380 --> 00:42:38.420
 here kind of like

00:42:38.420 --> 00:42:39.460
 saying,

00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:40.000
 you know,

00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:40.300
 hey,

00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:40.960
 what about this?

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:44.700
 The authority he had,

00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:46.019
 he tried to have,

00:42:47.139 --> 00:42:47.820
 it's hard to answer.

00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:49.400
 There's many examples

00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:50.079
 of him saying,

00:42:50.200 --> 00:42:51.300
 you guys need to do this

00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:51.940
 and then I'm just

00:42:51.940 --> 00:42:52.720
 not doing it

00:42:52.720 --> 00:42:54.420
 and then he,

00:42:54.500 --> 00:42:55.740
 he can't really

00:42:55.740 --> 00:42:56.519
 do anything about it.

00:42:56.700 --> 00:42:57.200
 This happened

00:42:57.200 --> 00:42:58.300
 with the Donatist schism.

00:42:58.400 --> 00:42:59.180
 He told the Donatists,

00:42:59.320 --> 00:42:59.900
 don't leave the church,

00:43:00.019 --> 00:43:00.560
 don't leave the church,

00:43:00.620 --> 00:43:01.060
 don't leave the church.

00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:02.080
 They left the church

00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:03.220
 and eventually he's like,

00:43:03.260 --> 00:43:03.420
 okay,

00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:04.420
 I can't do anything about it.

00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:05.640
 So,

00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.300
 you know,

00:43:07.340 --> 00:43:07.580
 remember,

00:43:07.700 --> 00:43:08.660
 this is the first time

00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:09.460
 they have a Christian emperor.

00:43:09.640 --> 00:43:09.840
 I mean,

00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:10.620
 they have gone,

00:43:10.700 --> 00:43:11.500
 this church has gone

00:43:11.500 --> 00:43:12.640
 from being horrifically

00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:13.300
 persecuted

00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:14.000
 just,

00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:15.220
 I mean,

00:43:15.260 --> 00:43:16.019
 if you're in the east,

00:43:16.180 --> 00:43:17.039
 just a couple years

00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:17.480
 previously

00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.380
 for centuries

00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:20.940
 to then

00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:22.199
 they're in front

00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:22.719
 of the emperor

00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:23.139
 who's telling,

00:43:23.260 --> 00:43:23.400
 I mean,

00:43:23.659 --> 00:43:25.079
 so there certainly

00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:26.159
 was a lot of pressure.

00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:28.360
 On the other hand,

00:43:28.740 --> 00:43:29.940
 like the creed

00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:31.240
 that Eusebius presented

00:43:31.240 --> 00:43:32.900
 was the church's creed

00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:33.420
 in his church,

00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:34.219
 which as we saw

00:43:34.219 --> 00:43:34.920
 with Irenaeus,

00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:36.360
 totally agree with Irenaeus.

00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:36.599
 I mean,

00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:38.340
 so the emperor

00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:40.119
 is not,

00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:40.679
 you know,

00:43:41.059 --> 00:43:42.480
 it's really squishy.

00:43:42.619 --> 00:43:43.320
 It's hard to,

00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:44.719
 it's hard to suss out exactly.

00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:46.840
 But he was not

00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:47.820
 in charge.

00:43:48.160 --> 00:43:49.300
 He could certainly

00:43:49.300 --> 00:43:50.780
 affect pressure.

00:43:52.019 --> 00:43:53.620
 And as time went on,

00:43:53.640 --> 00:43:54.420
 the emperor got more

00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:55.539
 and more power over this,

00:43:55.600 --> 00:43:56.100
 but it took,

00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:58.079
 it took a while.

00:43:58.980 --> 00:43:59.280
 But yeah,

00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:00.440
 he's monkeying about

00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:00.800
 with stuff

00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:01.780
 he probably shouldn't be,

00:44:02.380 --> 00:44:03.200
 you know,

00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:03.720
 monkeying about.

00:44:04.120 --> 00:44:04.340
 Yeah,

00:44:04.539 --> 00:44:05.660
 quick related question

00:44:05.660 --> 00:44:06.120
 for that.

00:44:06.700 --> 00:44:06.900
 How,

00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:08.460
 how well read,

00:44:08.579 --> 00:44:09.280
 how well studied

00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:10.180
 was Constantine?

00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:12.539
 Eusebius says

00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:13.380
 that he was like

00:44:13.380 --> 00:44:14.280
 highly educated,

00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:14.860
 he was fluent

00:44:14.860 --> 00:44:15.700
 in Latin and Greek.

00:44:15.699 --> 00:44:17.099
 he could talk

00:44:17.099 --> 00:44:17.980
 about all these things.

00:44:18.699 --> 00:44:19.639
 My reading

00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:20.799
 is he probably

00:44:20.799 --> 00:44:21.879
 was a remarkably

00:44:21.879 --> 00:44:22.980
 gifted leader.

00:44:23.980 --> 00:44:25.960
 He was very brave.

00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:27.339
 He did make

00:44:27.339 --> 00:44:28.199
 some massive,

00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:29.259
 horrible mistakes.

00:44:29.980 --> 00:44:31.000
 He actually had

00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:32.000
 his own son

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:32.719
 executed

00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:33.659
 and then realized

00:44:33.659 --> 00:44:34.139
 the charges

00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:34.839
 against his son

00:44:34.839 --> 00:44:35.500
 were false

00:44:35.500 --> 00:44:36.779
 after the fact.

00:44:37.439 --> 00:44:38.799
 Really bad stuff.

00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:43.180
 but my sense

00:44:43.180 --> 00:44:44.240
 is that he actually

00:44:44.240 --> 00:44:45.180
 more just wanted

00:44:45.180 --> 00:44:45.680
 the Christians

00:44:45.680 --> 00:44:47.180
 to agree on something.

00:44:47.180 --> 00:44:47.580
 Right,

00:44:47.740 --> 00:44:47.900
 like,

00:44:47.980 --> 00:44:48.660
 because I'm trying

00:44:48.660 --> 00:44:49.080
 to derive

00:44:49.080 --> 00:44:51.019
 his motives here.

00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:52.360
 I think he came in,

00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:52.960
 read the room,

00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:53.640
 and saw that

00:44:53.640 --> 00:44:55.260
 97% of everybody

00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:56.780
 there was against Arius

00:44:56.780 --> 00:44:57.240
 and was like,

00:44:57.440 --> 00:44:57.660
 okay,

00:44:57.700 --> 00:44:58.160
 that's good.

00:44:58.220 --> 00:44:58.960
 Let's get this settled.

00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:00.080
 We want this.

00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:01.180
 That's probably...

00:45:01.179 --> 00:45:02.619
 My sense is

00:45:02.619 --> 00:45:03.579
 he's a pretty smart cookie,

00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.679
 but not necessarily

00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:07.139
 like a specialized...

00:45:07.139 --> 00:45:07.279
 Yeah,

00:45:07.279 --> 00:45:08.039
 he's a politician.

00:45:08.379 --> 00:45:08.639
 But,

00:45:08.819 --> 00:45:08.960
 yeah,

00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:09.919
 he's like saying

00:45:09.919 --> 00:45:10.980
 I know enough

00:45:10.980 --> 00:45:12.059
 to say

00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:13.079
 you guys

00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:14.480
 should figure this out

00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:15.239
 so we can all

00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:15.719
 get back to

00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:16.679
 like being an empire.

00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:17.059
 Yes,

00:45:17.500 --> 00:45:18.099
 I think so.

00:45:18.319 --> 00:45:18.480
 Okay.

00:45:18.619 --> 00:45:18.839
 So,

00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:19.960
 that's my read.

00:45:21.219 --> 00:45:22.239
 He may have come,

00:45:22.299 --> 00:45:22.519
 remember,

00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:23.000
 he reigned

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:23.799
 for quite some time,

00:45:23.899 --> 00:45:24.079
 so,

00:45:24.699 --> 00:45:25.099
 you know,

00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:25.819
 he may have shifted,

00:45:26.019 --> 00:45:26.159
 you know,

00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:26.919
 as time went on,

00:45:27.019 --> 00:45:28.639
 he became more familiar

00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.019
 with some of the theological things.

00:45:31.339 --> 00:45:31.599
 Okay,

00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:32.519
 so here's the creed.

00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:33.539
 This is 338.

00:45:34.319 --> 00:45:35.599
 We believe in one God,

00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:36.159
 the Father,

00:45:36.259 --> 00:45:36.719
 Almighty,

00:45:37.099 --> 00:45:37.960
 maker of all things

00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:38.759
 visible and invisible,

00:45:39.319 --> 00:45:40.900
 and in one Lord Jesus Christ,

00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:42.839
 begotten of the Father uniquely,

00:45:43.339 --> 00:45:43.679
 that is,

00:45:43.759 --> 00:45:44.859
 of the substance,

00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:45.879
 that's a new one,

00:45:45.940 --> 00:45:46.500
 of the Father,

00:45:46.659 --> 00:45:47.279
 God of God,

00:45:47.359 --> 00:45:47.879
 light of light,

00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:49.199
 true God of true God,

00:45:49.299 --> 00:45:49.739
 begotten,

00:45:49.799 --> 00:45:50.179
 not made,

00:45:50.319 --> 00:45:51.779
 consubstantial with the Father,

00:45:51.940 --> 00:45:52.960
 another new one,

00:45:53.379 --> 00:45:54.699
 through whom all things were made,

00:45:54.699 --> 00:45:56.000
 both things in heaven

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:56.699
 and those in earth,

00:45:56.819 --> 00:45:57.659
 who for us men

00:45:57.659 --> 00:45:58.579
 and for our salvation

00:45:58.579 --> 00:45:59.259
 came down

00:45:59.259 --> 00:46:00.159
 and was incarnate,

00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:01.360
 became man,

00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:02.539
 he suffered and rose

00:46:02.539 --> 00:46:03.279
 on the third day,

00:46:03.460 --> 00:46:04.199
 ascended into heaven

00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:05.259
 and is coming to judge

00:46:05.259 --> 00:46:06.119
 the living and the dead

00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.319
 and in the Holy Spirit.

00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.239
 But those who say

00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:09.819
 there was once

00:46:09.819 --> 00:46:10.599
 when he was not

00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:12.179
 and before he was begotten

00:46:12.179 --> 00:46:12.779
 he was not

00:46:12.779 --> 00:46:13.980
 and he came into being

00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:15.099
 out of things that are not

00:46:15.099 --> 00:46:16.539
 or alleged that the Son of God

00:46:16.539 --> 00:46:18.299
 is of a different subsistence

00:46:18.299 --> 00:46:18.940
 or essence

00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:20.539
 or that he's created

00:46:20.539 --> 00:46:21.380
 or alterable

00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:22.039
 or changeable,

00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:23.779
 the Catholic and Apostolic Church

00:46:23.779 --> 00:46:24.039
 anathematizes.

00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:26.219
 They cast those people out.

00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:27.279
 So,

00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:29.120
 Eusebius,

00:46:29.240 --> 00:46:30.580
 so they added two words.

00:46:30.680 --> 00:46:31.960
 They added consubstantial

00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:33.100
 and then they also added

00:46:33.100 --> 00:46:34.620
 the word substance

00:46:34.620 --> 00:46:36.080
 which is just

00:46:36.080 --> 00:46:36.760
 usia

00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:40.519
 and

00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:45.640
 if we keep reading,

00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:47.780
 Eusebius is actually

00:46:47.780 --> 00:46:48.680
 concerned about

00:46:48.680 --> 00:46:49.720
 these two phrases.

00:46:50.220 --> 00:46:51.600
 He actually is writing

00:46:51.600 --> 00:46:52.820
 this letter to his church

00:46:52.820 --> 00:46:54.420
 because he knows

00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:55.019
 he's going to get

00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:55.660
 some blowback

00:46:55.660 --> 00:46:56.460
 when he gets home

00:46:56.460 --> 00:46:58.440
 because he says

00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:00.039
 when they formulated

00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:00.660
 this statement

00:47:00.660 --> 00:47:01.920
 I did not let it pass

00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:02.640
 without examination

00:47:02.640 --> 00:47:04.100
 as to what sense

00:47:04.100 --> 00:47:04.660
 they meant

00:47:04.660 --> 00:47:05.220
 when they said

00:47:05.220 --> 00:47:06.059
 of the substance

00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:06.700
 of the Father

00:47:06.700 --> 00:47:08.019
 and consubstantial

00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:08.580
 with the Father.

00:47:09.300 --> 00:47:09.400
 So,

00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:10.380
 questions were raised

00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:10.980
 and answered

00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:11.660
 and the meaning

00:47:11.660 --> 00:47:12.200
 of the phrases

00:47:12.200 --> 00:47:12.960
 was tested

00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:14.180
 by reason.

00:47:15.500 --> 00:47:15.880
 Thus,

00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:16.480
 it was declared

00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:17.180
 that they used

00:47:17.180 --> 00:47:17.620
 the phrase

00:47:17.620 --> 00:47:18.660
 of the substance

00:47:18.660 --> 00:47:19.660
 to indicate

00:47:19.660 --> 00:47:20.360
 his being

00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:20.980
 of the Father

00:47:20.980 --> 00:47:21.800
 but not as if

00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:22.700
 he were a part

00:47:22.700 --> 00:47:23.280
 of the Father.

00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:23.559
 So,

00:47:24.160 --> 00:47:25.320
 like a physical

00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:26.099
 part of the Father

00:47:26.099 --> 00:47:27.220
 like physicality.

00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:28.220
 He's really worried

00:47:28.220 --> 00:47:29.480
 about this physicality

00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:29.760
 stuff.

00:47:30.120 --> 00:47:31.039
 It's very clear

00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:32.480
 that in his church

00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:33.380
 these words

00:47:33.380 --> 00:47:34.320
 have physical

00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.200
 connotations

00:47:35.200 --> 00:47:36.980
 and he's trying

00:47:36.980 --> 00:47:37.400
 to say

00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:38.079
 that's not what

00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:38.460
 we mean.

00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:39.079
 We mean this

00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:39.660
 in purely

00:47:39.660 --> 00:47:40.800
 like essence

00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:41.519
 or nature

00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.059
 or something

00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:42.539
 like that.

00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:44.360
 So,

00:47:44.579 --> 00:47:45.260
 he goes on.

00:47:45.460 --> 00:47:45.960
 You can read

00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:46.720
 the rest of the letter

00:47:46.720 --> 00:47:48.180
 yourself.

00:47:48.179 --> 00:47:51.839
 But as you read

00:47:51.839 --> 00:47:52.679
 you start realizing

00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:54.019
 so Eusebius agrees

00:47:54.019 --> 00:47:54.940
 he agrees

00:47:54.940 --> 00:47:55.699
 with the creed

00:47:55.699 --> 00:47:56.419
 he signs off

00:47:56.419 --> 00:47:56.759
 on it

00:47:56.759 --> 00:47:57.579
 but he knows

00:47:57.579 --> 00:47:58.019
 it's going to be

00:47:58.019 --> 00:47:59.000
 controversial at home

00:47:59.000 --> 00:47:59.980
 so he writes

00:47:59.980 --> 00:48:00.440
 this letter

00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:01.039
 to try and

00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:02.039
 explain it

00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:03.259
 but then

00:48:03.259 --> 00:48:04.039
 as he is

00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:04.759
 explaining

00:48:04.759 --> 00:48:06.019
 what he believes

00:48:06.019 --> 00:48:07.039
 it's

00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:09.239
 it becomes

00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:09.719
 unclear

00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:10.399
 like

00:48:10.399 --> 00:48:11.919
 sometimes

00:48:11.919 --> 00:48:12.399
 Eusebius

00:48:12.399 --> 00:48:12.739
 is called

00:48:12.739 --> 00:48:13.919
 a semi-Aryan

00:48:13.919 --> 00:48:14.839
 because he

00:48:14.839 --> 00:48:16.199
 seems to believe

00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:16.579
 that

00:48:16.579 --> 00:48:17.440
 Jesus

00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:18.699
 always existed

00:48:18.699 --> 00:48:19.480
 but maybe

00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:21.039
 maybe only

00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:21.799
 like in the

00:48:21.799 --> 00:48:22.599
 mind of God

00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:23.460
 kind of

00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:24.019
 it's weird

00:48:24.019 --> 00:48:24.739
 it's unclear

00:48:24.739 --> 00:48:25.400
 exactly what

00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:26.019
 he means by this

00:48:26.019 --> 00:48:26.880
 so

00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:30.340
 I'll say

00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:30.759
 the fallout

00:48:30.759 --> 00:48:31.179
 of the council

00:48:31.179 --> 00:48:31.639
 and then we can

00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:32.019
 open it up

00:48:32.019 --> 00:48:32.420
 to questions

00:48:32.420 --> 00:48:33.420
 so this

00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:34.679
 creed is issued

00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:35.380
 almost all the

00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:35.900
 bishops agree

00:48:35.900 --> 00:48:36.579
 there's only a couple

00:48:36.579 --> 00:48:37.380
 that don't

00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:38.639
 Arius is exiled

00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:40.340
 Arius lives

00:48:40.340 --> 00:48:40.840
 for another

00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:42.099
 10-15 years

00:48:42.099 --> 00:48:43.699
 that's at some

00:48:43.699 --> 00:48:44.420
 point when he

00:48:44.420 --> 00:48:45.139
 issued his

00:48:45.139 --> 00:48:45.759
 confession

00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:46.560
 that I read

00:48:46.560 --> 00:48:46.920
 where he

00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:47.840
 clearly tried

00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:48.320
 to tone

00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:48.840
 down

00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:49.980
 the explicit

00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:50.440
 stuff

00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:51.260
 but he

00:48:51.260 --> 00:48:52.080
 doesn't want

00:48:52.080 --> 00:48:52.780
 to subscribe

00:48:52.780 --> 00:48:53.020
 to the

00:48:53.020 --> 00:48:53.800
 Nicene Creed

00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:55.480
 because he

00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:56.180
 doesn't like

00:48:56.180 --> 00:48:57.640
 these words

00:48:57.640 --> 00:48:58.140
 here

00:48:58.140 --> 00:49:00.260
 and

00:49:00.260 --> 00:49:02.540
 he eventually

00:49:02.540 --> 00:49:02.980
 dies

00:49:02.980 --> 00:49:03.820
 Arianism does

00:49:03.820 --> 00:49:04.460
 not die

00:49:04.460 --> 00:49:05.200
 it continues

00:49:05.200 --> 00:49:06.180
 in Germany

00:49:06.180 --> 00:49:07.120
 especially

00:49:07.120 --> 00:49:07.600
 but other

00:49:07.600 --> 00:49:08.020
 places

00:49:08.020 --> 00:49:08.640
 there were

00:49:08.640 --> 00:49:09.520
 later emperors

00:49:09.520 --> 00:49:09.800
 that were

00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:10.180
 Arian

00:49:10.180 --> 00:49:10.780
 so after

00:49:10.780 --> 00:49:11.400
 Constantine

00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:11.800
 died

00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:12.460
 there were

00:49:12.460 --> 00:49:13.200
 other emperors

00:49:13.200 --> 00:49:13.520
 that came

00:49:13.520 --> 00:49:14.160
 along that

00:49:14.160 --> 00:49:14.960
 were pro

00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:15.440
 Arian

00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:16.159
 and we

00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:16.400
 had this

00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:16.760
 back and

00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:17.000
 forth

00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:17.639
 Athanasius

00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:18.300
 was exiled

00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:18.559
 you know

00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:18.880
 bunches

00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:19.360
 of times

00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:21.400
 and

00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:22.300
 Athanasius

00:49:22.300 --> 00:49:23.900
 was kind

00:49:23.900 --> 00:49:24.260
 of the

00:49:24.260 --> 00:49:25.099
 theologian

00:49:25.099 --> 00:49:25.780
 that drove

00:49:25.780 --> 00:49:26.220
 the death

00:49:26.220 --> 00:49:26.579
 now in

00:49:26.579 --> 00:49:27.039
 Arianism

00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:27.820
 because he

00:49:27.820 --> 00:49:29.159
 was able

00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:29.820
 to show

00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:30.599
 things like

00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:31.320
 if Jesus

00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:32.840
 is not

00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:33.880
 actually God

00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:34.320
 then God

00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:34.599
 did not

00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:35.139
 become human

00:49:35.139 --> 00:49:35.980
 how can

00:49:35.980 --> 00:49:36.480
 humans be

00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:36.960
 reconciled

00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:37.320
 to God

00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:38.039
 by someone

00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:38.539
 else

00:49:38.539 --> 00:49:39.500
 God has

00:49:39.500 --> 00:49:39.880
 to do

00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:40.139
 it

00:49:40.139 --> 00:49:40.639
 we're

00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:40.940
 made

00:49:40.940 --> 00:49:41.420
 in God's

00:49:41.420 --> 00:49:41.779
 image

00:49:41.779 --> 00:49:42.139
 we have

00:49:42.139 --> 00:49:42.339
 I mean

00:49:42.339 --> 00:49:42.480
 he

00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:43.159
 he

00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:43.579
 go

00:49:43.579 --> 00:49:44.440
 again

00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:44.779
 and again

00:49:44.779 --> 00:49:45.039
 and again

00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:45.739
 for decades

00:49:45.739 --> 00:49:46.400
 is saying

00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:46.799
 this

00:49:46.799 --> 00:49:47.739
 and

00:49:47.739 --> 00:49:49.559
 eventually

00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:50.319
 you know

00:49:50.319 --> 00:49:51.119
 that wins

00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:51.639
 the day

00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:55.719
 I have to

00:49:55.719 --> 00:49:56.019
 say

00:49:56.019 --> 00:49:56.480
 when

00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:57.579
 the opening

00:49:57.579 --> 00:49:58.119
 line of the

00:49:58.119 --> 00:49:58.619
 gospel of

00:49:58.619 --> 00:49:59.239
 John says

00:49:59.239 --> 00:49:59.859
 in the beginning

00:49:59.859 --> 00:50:00.460
 was the word

00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:00.779
 and the word

00:50:00.779 --> 00:50:01.359
 was with God

00:50:01.359 --> 00:50:01.679
 and the word

00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:02.239
 was God

00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:03.159
 that feels

00:50:03.159 --> 00:50:04.000
 pretty clear

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:04.759
 to me

00:50:04.759 --> 00:50:05.319
 that

00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:06.140
 Jesus

00:50:06.140 --> 00:50:06.960
 is divine

00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:07.620
 and eternal

00:50:07.620 --> 00:50:09.539
 how you

00:50:09.539 --> 00:50:09.980
 want to use

00:50:09.980 --> 00:50:10.420
 the technical

00:50:10.420 --> 00:50:10.780
 language

00:50:10.780 --> 00:50:11.260
 like John

00:50:11.260 --> 00:50:11.700
 doesn't use

00:50:11.700 --> 00:50:11.960
 the word

00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:12.800
 consubstantial

00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:13.160
 he doesn't

00:50:13.160 --> 00:50:14.120
 use the word

00:50:14.120 --> 00:50:14.840
 hypostasis

00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:15.260
 which we'll

00:50:15.260 --> 00:50:15.820
 come across

00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:17.019
 but it

00:50:17.019 --> 00:50:17.820
 scripture

00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:20.620
 declares

00:50:20.620 --> 00:50:21.539
 that Jesus

00:50:21.539 --> 00:50:22.400
 is divine

00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:23.140
 and to then

00:50:23.140 --> 00:50:23.980
 try and take

00:50:23.980 --> 00:50:24.539
 that word

00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:24.880
 divine

00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:25.440
 to make it

00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:26.019
 not really

00:50:26.019 --> 00:50:26.380
 divine

00:50:26.380 --> 00:50:27.960
 seems to go

00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:28.300
 against the

00:50:28.300 --> 00:50:28.559
 scriptures

00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:29.880
 and

00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:30.960
 and

00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:32.900
 it also

00:50:32.900 --> 00:50:33.539
 seems to go

00:50:33.539 --> 00:50:33.840
 against

00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:34.840
 not just

00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:35.740
 the implications

00:50:35.740 --> 00:50:36.180
 but just

00:50:36.180 --> 00:50:36.620
 the plain

00:50:36.620 --> 00:50:37.160
 reading

00:50:37.160 --> 00:50:37.880
 of the

00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:38.240
 scriptures

00:50:38.240 --> 00:50:40.000
 and this

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:40.360
 is in the

00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:40.820
 Old Testament

00:50:40.820 --> 00:50:41.320
 it's not

00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:41.559
 a new

00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:41.900
 thing

00:50:41.900 --> 00:50:42.800
 Isaiah

00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:43.500
 says

00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:44.880
 you know

00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:45.360
 to us

00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:45.660
 a son

00:50:45.660 --> 00:50:46.039
 is given

00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:46.340
 and he

00:50:46.340 --> 00:50:46.620
 will be

00:50:46.620 --> 00:50:46.920
 called

00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:47.400
 mighty

00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:47.900
 God

00:50:47.900 --> 00:50:49.140
 Isaiah

00:50:49.140 --> 00:50:49.579
 says that

00:50:49.579 --> 00:50:50.440
 Zechariah

00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:50.880
 says

00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:51.920
 in speaking

00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:52.440
 through

00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:53.019
 as

00:50:53.019 --> 00:50:54.280
 Yahweh's

00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:54.660
 words

00:50:54.660 --> 00:50:55.440
 that they

00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:55.760
 will look

00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:56.180
 on me

00:50:56.180 --> 00:50:56.559
 the one

00:50:56.559 --> 00:50:56.860
 whom they

00:50:56.860 --> 00:50:57.240
 pierced

00:50:57.240 --> 00:50:57.440
 and they

00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:57.800
 will mourn

00:50:57.800 --> 00:50:58.140
 for him

00:50:58.140 --> 00:50:58.519
 like one

00:50:58.519 --> 00:50:58.780
 mourns

00:50:58.780 --> 00:50:59.079
 for an

00:50:59.079 --> 00:50:59.280
 only

00:50:59.280 --> 00:50:59.640
 son

00:50:59.640 --> 00:51:00.820
 which

00:51:00.820 --> 00:51:01.200
 seems to

00:51:01.200 --> 00:51:01.440
 be his

00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:01.880
 prophecy

00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:02.500
 of God

00:51:02.500 --> 00:51:03.120
 coming down

00:51:03.120 --> 00:51:03.420
 and being

00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:03.900
 crucified

00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:04.360
 and then

00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:04.920
 he goes

00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:05.200
 on to

00:51:05.200 --> 00:51:05.380
 say

00:51:05.380 --> 00:51:06.180
 and a

00:51:06.180 --> 00:51:06.400
 fountain

00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:06.880
 of forgiveness

00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:07.260
 will be

00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:07.740
 opened up

00:51:07.740 --> 00:51:08.440
 in Jerusalem

00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:10.920
 so it's

00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:11.300
 very clear

00:51:11.300 --> 00:51:11.640
 in scripture

00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:12.579
 we're going

00:51:12.579 --> 00:51:13.019
 to find

00:51:13.019 --> 00:51:13.440
 though

00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:14.180
 that

00:51:14.180 --> 00:51:17.539
 this

00:51:17.539 --> 00:51:18.599
 creed

00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:19.960
 which

00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:21.620
 is probably

00:51:21.620 --> 00:51:22.420
 the most

00:51:22.420 --> 00:51:23.220
 universally

00:51:23.220 --> 00:51:23.940
 ascribed to

00:51:23.940 --> 00:51:24.300
 creed

00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:25.099
 on earth

00:51:25.099 --> 00:51:25.820
 is this

00:51:25.820 --> 00:51:26.120
 creed

00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:26.699
 it was

00:51:26.699 --> 00:51:27.079
 a roman

00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:27.579
 creed

00:51:27.579 --> 00:51:28.940
 it was

00:51:28.940 --> 00:51:29.299
 later

00:51:29.299 --> 00:51:29.839
 accepted

00:51:29.839 --> 00:51:30.559
 by the

00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:30.960
 churches

00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:31.380
 in

00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:31.880
 Ethiopia

00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:32.199
 and

00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:32.679
 Persia

00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:33.179
 Armenia

00:51:33.179 --> 00:51:33.739
 Georgia

00:51:33.739 --> 00:51:34.500
 all

00:51:34.500 --> 00:51:34.659
 these

00:51:34.659 --> 00:51:34.839
 other

00:51:34.839 --> 00:51:35.199
 churches

00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:35.880
 accepted

00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:36.159
 this

00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:36.480
 creed

00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:37.319
 even

00:51:37.319 --> 00:51:37.559
 the

00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:38.460
 novationists

00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:38.779
 whom we

00:51:38.779 --> 00:51:39.019
 mentioned

00:51:39.019 --> 00:51:39.420
 last time

00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:39.519
 the

00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:40.079
 novationists

00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:40.460
 were like

00:51:40.460 --> 00:51:41.279
 the splinter

00:51:41.279 --> 00:51:41.739
 group

00:51:41.739 --> 00:51:42.679
 a splinter

00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:43.119
 church

00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:44.440
 they accepted

00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:44.940
 the creed

00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:45.480
 but didn't

00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:46.039
 want to sign

00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:46.500
 it because

00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:46.819
 they didn't

00:51:46.819 --> 00:51:47.119
 want to be

00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:47.819
 part of

00:51:47.819 --> 00:51:48.179
 a church

00:51:48.179 --> 00:51:48.460
 where the

00:51:48.460 --> 00:51:48.719
 emperor

00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:49.019
 was in

00:51:49.019 --> 00:51:49.319
 charge of

00:51:49.319 --> 00:51:49.559
 things

00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:49.799
 and stuff

00:51:49.799 --> 00:51:50.099
 like that

00:51:50.099 --> 00:51:50.759
 so

00:51:50.759 --> 00:51:52.400
 and

00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:53.079
 other

00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:54.880
 big

00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:56.420
 or

00:51:56.420 --> 00:51:57.159
 schismatic

00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:57.679
 groups

00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:58.119
 like the

00:51:58.119 --> 00:51:58.739
 Donatists

00:51:58.739 --> 00:51:59.500
 they would

00:51:59.500 --> 00:51:59.860
 have agreed

00:51:59.860 --> 00:52:00.179
 with this

00:52:00.179 --> 00:52:00.380
 I mean

00:52:00.380 --> 00:52:00.940
 so everyone

00:52:00.940 --> 00:52:01.339
 seems to

00:52:01.339 --> 00:52:01.679
 agree with

00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:01.799
 this

00:52:01.799 --> 00:52:02.259
 it's very

00:52:02.259 --> 00:52:02.699
 broadly

00:52:02.699 --> 00:52:03.380
 very universal

00:52:03.380 --> 00:52:04.699
 Protestants

00:52:04.699 --> 00:52:05.079
 many

00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:05.599
 Protestant

00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:06.119
 churches

00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:07.259
 actually

00:52:07.259 --> 00:52:07.860
 formally

00:52:07.860 --> 00:52:08.259
 agree

00:52:08.259 --> 00:52:08.719
 with this

00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:09.299
 and those

00:52:09.299 --> 00:52:10.139
 that don't

00:52:10.139 --> 00:52:10.819
 think it's

00:52:10.819 --> 00:52:11.139
 good

00:52:11.139 --> 00:52:11.519
 they're like

00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:11.799
 oh yeah

00:52:11.799 --> 00:52:12.019
 it's a

00:52:12.019 --> 00:52:12.360
 good one

00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:13.920
 we just

00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:15.199
 you know

00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:15.519
 those are

00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:15.900
 churches

00:52:15.900 --> 00:52:16.819
 that don't

00:52:16.819 --> 00:52:17.199
 come from

00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:17.559
 traditions

00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:17.819
 where they

00:52:17.819 --> 00:52:18.059
 want to

00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:18.480
 impart

00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:19.179
 extra

00:52:19.179 --> 00:52:19.699
 authority

00:52:19.699 --> 00:52:20.139
 to

00:52:20.139 --> 00:52:20.839
 the

00:52:20.839 --> 00:52:21.139
 creed

00:52:21.139 --> 00:52:21.599
 beyond

00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:22.039
 just

00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:23.699
 someone's

00:52:23.699 --> 00:52:23.980
 regular

00:52:23.980 --> 00:52:24.399
 confession

00:52:24.399 --> 00:52:24.579
 of

00:52:24.579 --> 00:52:24.799
 faith

00:52:24.799 --> 00:52:26.619
 we're

00:52:26.619 --> 00:52:26.799
 about

00:52:26.799 --> 00:52:27.359
 done

00:52:27.359 --> 00:52:27.500
 here

00:52:27.500 --> 00:52:27.619
 but

00:52:27.619 --> 00:52:27.739
 any

00:52:27.739 --> 00:52:28.059
 final

00:52:28.059 --> 00:52:28.539
 questions

00:52:28.539 --> 00:52:29.119
 before

00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:29.559
 Luke

00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:30.539
 so

00:52:30.539 --> 00:52:31.460
 from what I

00:52:31.460 --> 00:52:31.859
 understand

00:52:31.859 --> 00:52:33.399
 another

00:52:33.399 --> 00:52:34.339
 important part

00:52:34.339 --> 00:52:34.839
 of the

00:52:34.839 --> 00:52:35.339
 creed

00:52:35.339 --> 00:52:36.219
 is that

00:52:36.219 --> 00:52:36.919
 in the

00:52:36.919 --> 00:52:37.279
 original

00:52:37.279 --> 00:52:37.619
 creed

00:52:37.619 --> 00:52:37.779
 it says

00:52:37.779 --> 00:52:38.299
 God of

00:52:38.299 --> 00:52:38.719
 God

00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:39.599
 and in

00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:39.679
 the

00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:40.019
 Nicene

00:52:40.019 --> 00:52:40.259
 Creed

00:52:40.259 --> 00:52:40.619
 it says

00:52:40.619 --> 00:52:41.039
 true

00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:41.419
 God

00:52:41.419 --> 00:52:41.559
 of

00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:41.799
 true

00:52:41.799 --> 00:52:42.079
 God

00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:42.919
 I

00:52:42.919 --> 00:52:44.679
 think

00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:44.960
 it's

00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:45.399
 attempting

00:52:45.399 --> 00:52:45.859
 to take

00:52:45.859 --> 00:52:46.119
 away

00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:46.480
 that

00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:47.500
 squishiness

00:52:47.500 --> 00:52:47.799
!

00:52:47.819 --> 00:52:48.039
 Very

00:52:48.039 --> 00:52:48.399
 good

00:52:48.399 --> 00:52:49.279
 very

00:52:49.279 --> 00:52:49.500
 good

00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:49.739
 so

00:52:49.739 --> 00:52:50.519
 what

00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:51.039
 Arius

00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:51.199
 had

00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:51.340
 been

00:52:51.340 --> 00:52:51.920
 saying

00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:52.519
 was

00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:52.739
 he

00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:52.920
 would

00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:53.119
 say

00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:53.280
 when

00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:53.380
 you

00:52:53.380 --> 00:52:53.539
 pin

00:52:53.539 --> 00:52:53.639
 him

00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:53.940
 down

00:52:53.940 --> 00:52:54.579
 oh

00:52:54.579 --> 00:52:55.380
 Jesus

00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:55.699
 is

00:52:55.699 --> 00:52:56.139
 God

00:52:56.139 --> 00:52:56.579
 he's

00:52:56.579 --> 00:52:56.719
 just

00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:56.920
 not

00:52:56.920 --> 00:52:57.199
 true

00:52:57.199 --> 00:52:57.539
 God

00:52:57.539 --> 00:52:58.500
 he

00:52:58.500 --> 00:52:58.659
 would

00:52:58.659 --> 00:52:58.840
 say

00:52:58.840 --> 00:52:59.079
 that

00:52:59.079 --> 00:52:59.559
 which

00:52:59.559 --> 00:52:59.840
 to me

00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:00.059
 makes

00:53:00.059 --> 00:53:00.239
 no

00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:00.500
 sense

00:53:00.500 --> 00:53:00.760
 at all

00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:01.460
 but

00:53:01.460 --> 00:53:02.039
 he

00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:02.280
 would

00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:02.519
 say

00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:02.739
 that

00:53:02.739 --> 00:53:03.039
 part

00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:03.239
 of it

00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:03.480
 has

00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:04.099
 to do

00:53:04.099 --> 00:53:04.619
 with

00:53:04.619 --> 00:53:05.359
 true

00:53:05.359 --> 00:53:05.359


00:53:05.359 --> 00:53:05.619
 true

00:53:05.619 --> 00:53:06.079
 true

00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:06.619
 true

00:53:06.619 --> 00:53:06.719
 has

00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:06.880
 a

00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:07.759
 narrower

00:53:07.759 --> 00:53:08.319
 sense

00:53:08.319 --> 00:53:08.500
 than

00:53:08.500 --> 00:53:08.699
 in

00:53:08.699 --> 00:53:09.039
 Greek

00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:09.579
 where

00:53:09.579 --> 00:53:09.759
 it

00:53:09.759 --> 00:53:10.000
 can

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:10.420
 refer

00:53:10.420 --> 00:53:10.639
 to

00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:10.980
 something

00:53:10.980 --> 00:53:11.259
 more

00:53:11.259 --> 00:53:11.539
 like

00:53:11.539 --> 00:53:12.219
 actual

00:53:12.219 --> 00:53:12.980
 or

00:53:12.980 --> 00:53:13.599
 it

00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:13.839
 still

00:53:13.839 --> 00:53:14.019
 doesn't

00:53:14.019 --> 00:53:14.179
 make

00:53:14.179 --> 00:53:14.460
 sense

00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:14.679
 even

00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:14.819
 in

00:53:14.819 --> 00:53:14.960
 Greek

00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:15.139
 but

00:53:15.139 --> 00:53:15.299
 it

00:53:15.299 --> 00:53:15.519
 just

00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:15.839
 it's

00:53:15.839 --> 00:53:15.980
 a

00:53:15.980 --> 00:53:16.179
 little

00:53:16.179 --> 00:53:16.719
 less

00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:17.239
 jarring

00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:17.440
 in

00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:17.659
 Greek

00:53:17.659 --> 00:53:18.339
 so

00:53:18.339 --> 00:53:18.539
 yes

00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:18.699
 they

00:53:18.699 --> 00:53:18.940
 add

00:53:18.940 --> 00:53:19.099
 that

00:53:19.099 --> 00:53:19.279
 word

00:53:19.279 --> 00:53:19.880
 true

00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:20.359
 because

00:53:20.359 --> 00:53:20.559
 they

00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:20.940
 really

00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:21.239
 mean

00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:21.519
 it

00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:22.139
 like

00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:22.420
 he

00:53:22.420 --> 00:53:22.799
 really

00:53:22.799 --> 00:53:23.579
 is

00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:23.940
 it

00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:24.159
 took

00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:24.579
 50

00:53:24.579 --> 00:53:24.960
 years

00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:25.179
 to

00:53:25.179 --> 00:53:25.719
 verify

00:53:25.719 --> 00:53:25.980
 the

00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:26.460
 Nicene

00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:26.819
 Creed

00:53:26.819 --> 00:53:27.719
 because

00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:28.000
 of

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:28.219
 those

00:53:28.219 --> 00:53:28.819
 words

00:53:28.819 --> 00:53:29.299
 because

00:53:29.299 --> 00:53:29.500
 of

00:53:29.500 --> 00:53:29.739
 true

00:53:29.739 --> 00:53:30.159
 true

00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:31.659
 substance

00:53:31.659 --> 00:53:32.400
 yes

00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:32.840
 yes

00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:33.319
 substance

00:53:33.319 --> 00:53:34.019
 consubstantial

00:53:34.019 --> 00:53:34.340
 yes

00:53:34.340 --> 00:53:35.699
 yes

00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:36.199
 there's

00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:36.360
 going to

00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:36.699
 be another

00:53:36.699 --> 00:53:37.039
 term

00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:37.779
 hypostasis

00:53:37.779 --> 00:53:38.239
 that's

00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:38.420
 going to

00:53:38.420 --> 00:53:38.840
 come up

00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:39.659
 that's

00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:39.799
 going to

00:53:39.799 --> 00:53:39.920
 be

00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:40.460
 introduced

00:53:40.460 --> 00:53:41.319
 next

00:53:41.319 --> 00:53:41.699
 class

00:53:41.699 --> 00:53:42.019
 John

00:53:42.019 --> 00:53:42.299
 Hinkson

00:53:42.299 --> 00:53:42.559
 is going

00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:42.699
 to be

00:53:42.699 --> 00:53:42.880
 talking

00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:43.019
 about

00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:43.119
 the

00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:43.519
 Apostles

00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:43.860
 Creed

00:53:43.860 --> 00:53:44.480
 then

00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:44.699
 after

00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:44.840
 that

00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:44.960
 we'll

00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:45.059
 be

00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:45.299
 talking

00:53:45.299 --> 00:53:45.599
 about

00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:45.819
 the

00:53:45.819 --> 00:53:45.960
 Creed

00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:46.099
 of

00:53:46.099 --> 00:53:46.880
 Constantinople

00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:48.719
 and

00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:49.079
 things

00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:49.259
 like

00:53:49.259 --> 00:53:49.960
 hypostasis

00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:50.299
 and

00:53:50.299 --> 00:53:50.960
 consubstantial

00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:51.960
 one

00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:52.300
 thing

00:53:52.300 --> 00:53:52.840
 when

00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:53.019
 you're

00:53:53.019 --> 00:53:53.380
 speaking

00:53:53.380 --> 00:53:53.579
 of

00:53:53.579 --> 00:53:54.139
 divine

00:53:54.139 --> 00:53:54.740
 things

00:53:54.740 --> 00:53:55.300
 by

00:53:55.300 --> 00:53:55.920
 definition

00:53:55.920 --> 00:53:56.340
 our

00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:56.740
 words

00:53:56.740 --> 00:53:56.900
 are

00:53:56.900 --> 00:53:57.099
 going

00:53:57.099 --> 00:53:57.280
 to

00:53:57.280 --> 00:53:57.599
 fail

00:53:57.599 --> 00:53:58.019
 us

00:53:58.019 --> 00:53:58.300
 when

00:53:58.300 --> 00:53:58.440
 we're

00:53:58.440 --> 00:53:58.699
 talking

00:53:58.699 --> 00:53:58.940
 about

00:53:58.940 --> 00:53:59.220
 God

00:53:59.220 --> 00:53:59.800
 because

00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:00.179
 God

00:54:00.179 --> 00:54:00.480
 is not

00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:01.000
 exactly

00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:01.840
 analogous

00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:02.039
 to

00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:02.519
 anything

00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:02.880
 we

00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:03.179
 can

00:54:03.179 --> 00:54:04.220
 imagine

00:54:04.220 --> 00:54:05.460
 perfectly

00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:06.019
 analogous

00:54:06.019 --> 00:54:06.179
 to

00:54:06.179 --> 00:54:06.900
 so

00:54:06.900 --> 00:54:07.639
 what

00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:08.119
 that

00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:09.000
 means

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:09.760
 is that

00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:10.199
 if we

00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:10.659
 want to

00:54:10.659 --> 00:54:10.860
 talk

00:54:10.860 --> 00:54:11.099
 about

00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:11.480
 God

00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:11.760
 one

00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:11.960
 thing

00:54:11.960 --> 00:54:12.500
 theologians

00:54:12.500 --> 00:54:12.740
 do

00:54:12.740 --> 00:54:12.960
 is

00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:13.119
 they

00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:13.480
 make

00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:13.679
 up

00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.199
 words

00:54:14.199 --> 00:54:15.079
 because

00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:15.860
 if

00:54:15.860 --> 00:54:16.059
 you're

00:54:16.059 --> 00:54:16.340
 using

00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:16.639
 all the

00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:16.820
 other

00:54:16.820 --> 00:54:17.119
 words

00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:17.340
 they're

00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:17.760
 always

00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:18.059
 going

00:54:18.059 --> 00:54:18.220
 to

00:54:18.220 --> 00:54:18.460
 have

00:54:18.460 --> 00:54:18.840
 some

00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:19.260
 kind

00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:19.420
 of

00:54:19.420 --> 00:54:20.039
 connotation

00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:20.280
 you

00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:20.619
 don't

00:54:20.619 --> 00:54:21.019
 want

00:54:21.019 --> 00:54:21.940
 so

00:54:21.940 --> 00:54:22.159
 if

00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:22.320
 you

00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:22.659
 make

00:54:22.659 --> 00:54:22.840
 up

00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:23.019
 a

00:54:23.019 --> 00:54:23.360
 word

00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:23.800
 you

00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:24.000
 can

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:24.860
 encapsulate

00:54:24.860 --> 00:54:25.220
 better

00:54:25.220 --> 00:54:25.460
 what

00:54:25.460 --> 00:54:25.659
 you're

00:54:25.659 --> 00:54:26.000
 referring

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:26.360
 to

00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:26.960
 and

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:27.240
 that's

00:54:27.240 --> 00:54:27.500
 why

00:54:27.500 --> 00:54:28.099
 scholars

00:54:28.099 --> 00:54:28.320
 will

00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:28.680
 use

00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:28.880
 the

00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:29.079
 word

00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:30.059
 consubstantial

00:54:30.059 --> 00:54:30.539
 or

00:54:30.539 --> 00:54:31.280
 hypostasis

00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:31.980
 and

00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:32.159
 they'll

00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:32.639
 define

00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:32.900
 it

00:54:32.900 --> 00:54:33.380
 sometimes

00:54:33.380 --> 00:54:34.059
 in ways

00:54:34.059 --> 00:54:34.260
 that

00:54:34.260 --> 00:54:34.420
 the

00:54:34.420 --> 00:54:34.920
 ancients

00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:35.300
 we're

00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:35.400
 going

00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:35.480
 to

00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:35.659
 find

00:54:35.659 --> 00:54:35.800
 out

00:54:35.800 --> 00:54:35.920
 that

00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:36.180
 sometimes

00:54:36.180 --> 00:54:36.460
 these

00:54:36.460 --> 00:54:36.700
 words

00:54:36.700 --> 00:54:36.880
 had

00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:37.180
 different

00:54:37.180 --> 00:54:37.480
 meanings

00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:37.680
 to

00:54:37.680 --> 00:54:37.900
 different

00:54:37.900 --> 00:54:38.220
 people

00:54:38.220 --> 00:54:39.260
 which

00:54:39.260 --> 00:54:39.639
 we've

00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:39.800
 seen

00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:39.980
 here

00:54:39.980 --> 00:54:40.119
 but

00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:40.240
 we're

00:54:40.240 --> 00:54:40.320
 going

00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:40.380
 to

00:54:40.380 --> 00:54:40.500
 see

00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:40.619
 it

00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:40.860
 big

00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:41.099
 time

00:54:41.099 --> 00:54:41.260
 with

00:54:41.260 --> 00:54:41.900
 hypostasis

00:54:41.900 --> 00:54:42.600
 is there

00:54:42.600 --> 00:54:42.840
 another

00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:43.020
 hint

00:54:43.020 --> 00:54:43.260
 yes

00:54:43.260 --> 00:54:44.040
 the

00:54:44.040 --> 00:54:44.360
 words

00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:44.840
 Nicene

00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:45.120
 Creed

00:54:45.120 --> 00:54:45.520
 make it

00:54:45.520 --> 00:54:45.620
 into

00:54:45.620 --> 00:54:45.740
 our

00:54:45.740 --> 00:54:46.040
 Christmas

00:54:46.040 --> 00:54:46.500
 hymns

00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:46.880
 that we

00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:47.280
 sing

00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:48.060
 true

00:54:48.060 --> 00:54:48.320
 God

00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:48.500
 from

00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:48.920
 light

00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:49.360
 from

00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:49.720
 lights

00:54:49.720 --> 00:54:50.520
 so

00:54:50.520 --> 00:54:51.480
 Nicene

00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:51.820
 Creed

00:54:51.820 --> 00:54:52.100
 it's

00:54:52.100 --> 00:54:52.300
 like

00:54:52.300 --> 00:54:53.140
 when

00:54:53.140 --> 00:54:53.280
 you're

00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:53.380
 on

00:54:53.380 --> 00:54:53.500
 your

00:54:53.500 --> 00:54:53.880
 deathbed

00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:54.060
 you're

00:54:54.060 --> 00:54:54.220
 saying

00:54:54.220 --> 00:54:54.520
 it is

00:54:54.520 --> 00:54:54.820
 well

00:54:54.820 --> 00:54:55.300
 it has

00:54:55.300 --> 00:54:55.880
 comforted

00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:56.160
 so

00:54:56.160 --> 00:54:56.540
 many

00:54:56.540 --> 00:54:57.040
 Christians

00:54:57.040 --> 00:54:57.580
 even to

00:54:57.580 --> 00:54:57.740
 this

00:54:57.740 --> 00:54:57.980
 day

00:54:57.980 --> 00:54:58.500
 when we're

00:54:58.500 --> 00:54:58.720
 singing

00:54:58.720 --> 00:54:59.060
 Christmas

00:54:59.060 --> 00:54:59.440
 hymns

00:54:59.440 --> 00:54:59.920
 you'll

00:54:59.920 --> 00:55:00.160
 notice

00:55:00.160 --> 00:55:00.680
 Nicene

00:55:00.680 --> 00:55:00.920
 Creed

00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:01.840
 appears

00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:02.420
 in there

00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:02.760
 so we're

00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:03.240
 still using

00:55:03.240 --> 00:55:03.620
 it as a

00:55:03.620 --> 00:55:03.840
 church

00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:04.320
 even though

00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:04.520
 we don't

00:55:04.520 --> 00:55:04.880
 realize

00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:05.240
 yeah

00:55:05.240 --> 00:55:06.079
 amen

00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:06.480
 yes

00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:07.000
 absolutely

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:07.840
 we are

00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:08.360
 we are

00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:08.840
 very widespread

00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:09.619
 let me

00:55:09.619 --> 00:55:09.960
 close in

00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:10.160
 prayer

00:55:10.160 --> 00:55:10.559
 if you

00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:10.820
 want to

00:55:10.820 --> 00:55:11.440
 stick around

00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:11.760
 and talk

00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:12.059
 for a few

00:55:12.059 --> 00:55:12.240
 minutes

00:55:12.240 --> 00:55:12.480
 I'd be

00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:12.820
 happy to

00:55:12.820 --> 00:55:13.240
 but church

00:55:13.240 --> 00:55:13.539
 is starting

00:55:13.539 --> 00:55:13.820
 in a few

00:55:13.820 --> 00:55:14.019
 minutes

00:55:14.019 --> 00:55:15.160
 Father in

00:55:15.160 --> 00:55:15.260
 heaven

00:55:15.260 --> 00:55:15.680
 we thank

00:55:15.680 --> 00:55:15.980
 you

00:55:15.980 --> 00:55:17.800
 for this

00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:18.220
 opportunity

00:55:18.220 --> 00:55:19.860
 to dwell

00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:20.340
 on these

00:55:20.340 --> 00:55:20.680
 matters

00:55:20.680 --> 00:55:21.099
 Lord we

00:55:21.099 --> 00:55:21.579
 know that

00:55:21.579 --> 00:55:22.019
 your nature

00:55:22.019 --> 00:55:22.680
 is beyond

00:55:22.680 --> 00:55:23.519
 finding out

00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:24.280
 but we

00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:24.619
 know you've

00:55:24.619 --> 00:55:24.880
 revealed

00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:25.519
 yourself

00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:26.820
 Father we

00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:27.360
 know that

00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:28.519
 you sent

00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:29.400
 your son

00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:30.119
 to die

00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:30.599
 for our

00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:30.940
 sins

00:55:30.940 --> 00:55:31.320
 on the

00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:31.579
 cross

00:55:31.579 --> 00:55:32.019
 we know

00:55:32.019 --> 00:55:32.320
 that

00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:33.480
 we confess

00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:33.980
 together

00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:34.680
 that

00:55:34.679 --> 00:55:36.500
 Jesus

00:55:36.500 --> 00:55:37.099
 the same

00:55:37.099 --> 00:55:37.440
 Lord

00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:37.859
 true

00:55:37.859 --> 00:55:38.599
 true God

00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:38.940
 of true

00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:39.219
 God

00:55:39.219 --> 00:55:39.579
 light of

00:55:39.579 --> 00:55:39.879
 light

00:55:39.879 --> 00:55:41.940
 Lord we

00:55:41.940 --> 00:55:42.279
 pray

00:55:42.279 --> 00:55:44.079
 that

00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:44.819
 we would

00:55:44.819 --> 00:55:45.319
 claim to

00:55:45.319 --> 00:55:45.940
 this truth

00:55:45.940 --> 00:55:47.399
 that God

00:55:47.399 --> 00:55:47.799
 himself

00:55:47.799 --> 00:55:48.500
 came down

00:55:48.500 --> 00:55:49.179
 to walk

00:55:49.179 --> 00:55:49.799
 and suffer

00:55:49.799 --> 00:55:50.440
 for us

00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:50.919
 and to

00:55:50.919 --> 00:55:51.419
 rise again

00:55:51.419 --> 00:55:51.759
 that we

00:55:51.759 --> 00:55:52.519
 might also

00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:53.659
 rise to

00:55:53.659 --> 00:55:54.940
 we thank

00:55:54.940 --> 00:55:55.239
 you for

00:55:55.239 --> 00:55:55.519
 this

00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:56.319
 we pray

00:55:56.319 --> 00:55:56.599
 this in

00:55:56.599 --> 00:55:56.819
 the name

00:55:56.819 --> 00:55:57.219
 of Jesus

00:55:57.219 --> 00:55:57.859
 amen

00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:09.779
 let me

00:56:09.779 --> 00:56:10.339
 let me

00:56:10.339 --> 00:56:10.699
 turn my

00:56:10.699 --> 00:56:10.879
 finger

00:56:10.879 --> 00:56:11.079
 off

00:56:11.079 --> 00:56:13.000
 but yeah

00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:13.359
 keep going

00:56:13.359 --> 00:56:14.039
 anything like

00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:14.339
 peace

00:56:14.339 --> 00:56:14.980
 or friends

00:56:14.980 --> 00:56:15.719
 would be

00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:16.440
 safe