All right, we've come to the last session where I'm teaching.
And what a sweet time this has been.
! I just am so always amazed at how the Lord just kind of ties things together.
! And it's really the relationships, really the conversations that you have.
And He just makes Himself known in different ways.
So He's so kind.
This last session is on building bridges, pastors, and music leaders.
And then we're going to take a brief break and do a Q&A.
And so David is looking through all those Q's right now.
And hopefully he's going to have some great A's to respond to them with.
So here's the situation.
There have been years, decades, really, centuries of history
where the leaders of the church, the pastors of the church,
have been in conflict with the musicians.
And it's for different reasons.
Pastors usually have something to do with judgmentalism, sinful judgment.
Pastors tend to see musicians as temperamental.
Who would have thought?
Late, unorganized, non-theological, trendy, unresponsive, proud, etc.
Worship leaders, physicians have tended to see their pastors sometimes as controlling,
angry, demanding, insensitive, out of touch, over-detailed, non-relational, proud, etc.
And in those kinds of situations,
we just forget that our worship is not just what we do on Sunday mornings.
It's our relationships.
The two things that God says we're to do,
they have to do with relationship.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Not get your meeting right.
It's important to get our meetings right.
We want to strive to do our meetings well.
But at the heart of it is the relationships.
And if you're married, it's your relationship with your spouse
is the primary issue.
And then it's you with your kids.
And then it's with your church, your pastor, and those you work with.
Paul says in Romans 15,
he makes it clear that, verses 5 and 6,
he makes it clear that God wants us to glorify him,
not just in our public ministry,
but in the way we relate to one another.
He says, may the God of endurance encouragement grant you,
so it comes from God,
grant you to live in such harmony with one another
in accord with Christ Jesus
that together you may with one voice
glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I have been immensely privileged
to serve for almost every part of my life
40 years of pastoral ministry.
I've been leading music for 50,
but I've been in pastoral ministry for 40.
And my relationship with my pastor
is on the whole, massively on the whole,
been extremely encouraging.
It hasn't come without, you know,
let me make sure that we're okay here,
battery one.
I think I am.
Are we okay?
Yeah.
It hasn't come without buddy heads at times
and, you know, different issues to talk through,
but a lot of these things that I'm going to share
have come through things I've seen or heard.
You know, people come saying,
I've got this situation.
What do I do?
So if you're an employed musician in a church,
like a worship pastor, worship leader,
a few years back they did a survey
and the average length of time for someone like that
was two to three years in a church,
which doesn't speak well of what's going on.
I don't suspect that's happening here,
but it's always good for us to just get a recheck
on how are we to think about this.
So the way I framed it is,
first section is on what pastors
wish their worship leaders knew.
Second section, what worship leaders
wish their pastors knew.
And the third section is just
how we can work together as a team.
So let's begin with what pastors
wish their worship leaders knew.
And to be completely transparent,
these are things your pastor would want you to know
if I was your pastor.
So your pastor may not be like this,
but I suspect that it's true in more cases than not.
So I think there are,
I think there are how many of these?
There are 12 of these,
because there's just more to say.
Pastors, first, pastors, not worship leaders,
will give an account to God
for the people in their church.
Hebrews 13, 17,
obey your leaders and submit to them,
for they are keeping watch over your souls,
as though who will have to give an account.
Those who will have to give an account.
Let them do this with joy,
not with groaning,
for that would be of no advantage to you.
They have to give an account.
So to any music leader who is saying,
yeah, my pastor wants me to do this,
well, you know what?
Your pastor has to give an account to God
for what he's doing.
Once you've expressed your thoughts
and shared what you think,
if he's still saying,
no, I want to do this,
okay, he's gonna have to give an account
to God for that.
So you should gladly submit.
Make it a joy for him to do what he's doing.
Pastors are ultimately responsible
for the song diet
and the teaching of the church.
So they should know in advance
what songs are gonna be sung.
The pastor asked me one time,
yeah, my worship leader
doesn't want to show me the songs in advance,
and I said, time out, time out.
He should be volunteering
to show those to you.
You're responsible.
You have to give an account.
I want you to know
what we're going to be singing.
And it's not inappropriate at all
for a pastor to say,
yeah, I'd just like to know in advance
and have the freedom
to be able to change things
if I don't think it's gonna be
exactly what it should be.
And if you want a pastor's trust,
you're gonna have to earn it.
Or if you want my trust,
you'll have to earn it.
It's not like,
hey, yeah, just do whatever you want
and we'll clean up whatever happens.
No, I want to trust you,
so you'll have to earn that.
So pastors have to give an account to God
for the people in the church too.
God's word to us
matters more than our words to God.
Isaiah 66, 2.
This is the one to whom I will look,
he who is humble and contrite in spirit,
and trembles at my word.
Now it's true,
we share a lot,
we speak a lot of words to God.
But before we speak any words to God,
we have to know he's spoken to us.
There are a lot of idle words
that get spoken,
but are not heard
because God has never spoken
to the people who said them
in the first place.
music ministry is a word ministry.
It's not just the time
when we express everything we want
and then the teaching time
is the time when we listen.
Some people will go to one church
for the music
and then to another church
for the teaching.
That's so unhelpful.
That's so unwise.
Music ministry is a word ministry.
We don't want to underestimate
the importance,
the significance,
the effect of proclaiming God's truth,
proclaiming God's word passionately.
So I'd want you to know your Bible
better than your instrument,
or at least as well as your instrument.
Don't spend hours and hours practicing
and give 15 minutes to the word.
If I'm your pastor,
that's what I'd be saying to you.
Lead us to sing the word,
to hear the word,
to see the word,
to pray the word.
Your music ministry
is a word ministry.
Number three,
we are what we sing,
therefore choose our songs
and lyrics wisely.
There's an article
that came out in late,
I think in the 90s,
said we are what we sing.
Others have said it.
We are what we sing.
We tend to take on the shape,
the formation,
the values of what we sing.
You're discipling the congregation
through your song choices
and through the lyrics.
And for better or worse,
this is always a disappointment to pastors,
people will remember the songs
more than they'll remember your sermons.
No one knows,
can quote a John Wesley sermon,
I don't think.
Everybody knows
Hark the Herald Angels Sing.
It's because his brother wrote it.
And it's a song.
Chuck.
Chuck Wesley wrote that.
Wonder if there was any comparison.
No, I think they got along pretty well,
John and Charles.
So build a repertoire of songs.
I'd want you to build a repertoire of songs
that express the different aspects
of God's glory and character and works
and the appropriate responses to them.
and make sure we're singing them.
We just, we want to,
this kind of flows out of the transitions talk.
We want to,
we want to make people aware of the whole story.
And to make them aware of the whole story,
we have to sing different kinds of songs.
So we don't just sing songs
because they're popular.
You know,
a funny thing has happened
over the last 30 years
where,
and it's probably longer than that,
but worship songs have,
are like the top 40.
You know,
because we have the CCLI charts now
that tell you
what are the most popular songs.
We have YouTube that tells us
what has the most views
and, you know,
the people who are the most popular.
And those songs may not be the right ones
for your church
if they're not saying
what your church needs to say.
So writing a song that's catchy
with catchy words
is a lot easier
than writing a song
that your church needs to sing.
So I'd say,
so think about the diet.
Think about the repertoire.
Number four,
while song introductions can be helpful,
you're not the preacher.
And this is kind of a balance
to what I shared earlier.
Your primary role
is to enable the word of Christ
to dwell in us richly,
not to preach that word of Christ.
So when you're going to give a,
you know,
some kind of instruction
between the songs,
generally less is going to be more.
Generally.
Now you may be someone
who doesn't say anything
and your pastor
is going to say more.
Okay, great.
But generally,
for a musician,
to start talking
is to walk into trouble.
It's often happened.
We've seen it.
And typically,
less is more.
Choose great songs
and you won't have to say as much.
Choose great songs.
Number five,
but we're going to get through this
fairly quickly,
which we'll leave more time for Q&A.
Prayers are corporate conversations
with God,
not filler.
Prayers are corporate conversations
with God,
not filler.
Don't pray
just because you feel awkward
or don't know what to do.
Yeah,
they're not space fillers.
They are engaging with God.
Use your prayers
to speak for the congregation,
not just yourself.
It's always a little bit awkward
when the person in front
is just talking to God about,
God,
I just love you so much.
Lord,
just thank you for being with us.
Lord,
you're just so amazing.
It's like,
there's like a whole crowd
of people in the room
and we're just listening in
on this prayer.
We're praying for the congregation,
so we want to think corporately,
congregationally.
It's an opportunity to model
what theologically informed,
biblically rooted,
Christ-exalting prayer looks like.
So yeah,
to write it out,
great.
But the better thing
would be to know the Lord
so well
and to be so attentive
to what you're doing
that it just flows out of you,
that you're able to interact
in that moment.
And this is just an extra.
Don't mix up members of the Trinity
and don't pray as though
God has forgotten his name.
Lord,
we just thank you,
Father,
Lord Jesus,
for the Holy Spirit.
Thank you,
Lord,
for just being with us,
Lord.
Father,
thank you for dying
on the cross for us
and we're just so grateful,
Spirit,
that you,
Father,
didn't die on the cross for us,
Jesus did.
That's an important distinction.
Just things like that.
But I hear prayers like that
and just go,
just slow down.
Just slow down.
Think about what you're saying.
You know,
when we read,
I was just reading Thessalonians,
where the writers
are so specific
about the members of the Trinity.
Listen to what Paul says.
We give thanks to God
always for you,
constantly mentioning you
in our prayers,
remembering before our God
and Father
your work of faith
and labor of love
and steadfastness
of hope
in our Lord Jesus Christ.
For we know,
brothers,
loved by God
that he has chosen you
because our gospel
came to you
not only in word
but also in power
and with the Holy,
in the Holy Spirit
and with full conviction.
So he's just talking to them
about, you know,
the fact that I'm praying for you
and these are the things
I'm praying,
this is what we know.
And he mentions all three persons
of the Trinity.
You know,
may the,
I always get this wrong
so I'm not going to try it.
May,
in the 2nd Corinthians,
here it is right here,
may the grace
of the Lord Jesus Christ
and the love of God
and the fellowship
of the Holy Spirit
be with you all.
2nd Thessalonians,
it says,
may our Lord Jesus Christ
himself
and God our Father
who loved us
and gave us eternal comfort
and good hope
through grace.
You know,
it's like,
what is this?
Well,
they're recognizing
that God is triune.
He's Father,
Son,
and Spirit.
And if you haven't read
Delighting in the Trinity,
by Michael Reeves,
you should read it.
It says,
a very helpful book
about remembering
why it's so good
and delightful
that God is Father,
Son,
and Spirit.
All right,
number,
where are we at?
Six.
Your job is to support
congregational singing,
not overwhelm
or overpower it.
So,
as I'm telling my musicians,
Ephesians 5,
19,
we're addressing
one another
in psalms and hymns
and spiritual songs.
If we can't hear ourselves,
it's hard to address each other.
We're not just here
to listen to you.
You know,
when someone's leading
a song on a microphone,
they don't have to be
on that microphone
the entire song,
especially if the congregation
knows it really well.
It's not like we've come
to hear your voice.
We've come to hear
each other's voices.
That's a different perspective.
Make sure your sound person
knows the value
of the congregation's voice.
Don't assume
the instrumentalists
have to play constantly.
You know,
if we're up here on stage,
we should be playing.
No,
that's not true.
You can take a break.
Sometimes the best thing
you can do
is take a break.
How can I contribute?
Take a break.
That's not what I was looking for.
I know.
I know it's not
what you're looking for,
but really,
you will add more
if you play less.
it's kind of counterintuitive.
Pull back from your vocal mic sometimes.
Stop playing your instruments sometimes.
Let us sing a cappella.
That's what I'd be saying
to my music guy.
Number seven,
truth matters more than tunes,
but that doesn't mean
we should sing great theology
to bad melodies
or bad accompaniment.
So the music does matter.
Choose songs the congregation
can enjoy singing
and can sing.
And occasionally mix up
the arrangement.
Change the arrangement,
the feel,
the tempo,
so the congregation
can hear the lyrics
in a fresh way.
We are really about
what are these songs saying?
What should we be thinking about?
And if you do a song
the exact same way
every time you do it,
that will be a little harder
to figure out.
Number eight,
keys that serve
the congregation
are better than keys
that make you sound good.
Yeah, that's Philippians 2,
3, and 4.
Do nothing from selfish ambition
or conceit,
but in humility
count others more significant
than yourself.
Let each of you look
not only to his own interests,
but also to the interests
of others.
Some churches where,
you know,
if a guy leads,
it's in this key.
If a girl leads,
it's in this key.
And that may be true
like within a step or so,
but not like when it's
a fourth or a fifth difference.
You know,
when a guy sings,
it's in G.
When a girl sings,
it's in D.
No, you're a poor congregation.
You know,
the one is too high,
the other's too low.
Let's find that middle spot
where you may not sound
as your very possible
American Idol best,
but the congregation
will be able to enjoy
singing it.
So generally,
that falls within a range
of an A to a D.
Generally,
there are exceptions,
but if you're singing
a lot of Ds,
your women are probably dying.
And if you're singing
low Gs,
low Fs,
your guys are not
going to be able to,
they're not going to be able
to sing with passion.
It's just not there.
So just try to find
that sweet spot
of a song
that lies within that range.
Yeah,
we don't compare
to listen to you sing,
but lift up our voices.
Yeah,
if you do have
a higher voice,
then use that voice
to fill in between lines.
If you're the leader,
don't sing harmony
all the time
because that's confusing
to your people.
But if,
you know,
and as he stands
in victory,
as he stands,
or whatever,
you know,
do something,
not like that,
but do something
that's in between the lines
that will encourage people
as they're singing the song.
Not to show off,
but to augment
or draw attention
to the content
of what we're singing.
So,
yeah,
as the congregations
get weary
if they have to sing
a lot of high D's
and E's.
Although there are
exceptions to this.
The song Praise,
it's like number two
or three on CCLI.
I've got a reason
to praise the Lord.
I mean,
it's a great song,
but that's a high A
in the original song.
It's a high A.
And it's a fun song,
and, you know,
but I just couldn't
lead that song
because it's got
a wide range as well,
so if you bring it down,
it's just hard
to make it all work together.
If your congregation
is all 20-somethings,
they'll probably do great.
All right,
number nine,
don't teach us
so many new songs
that we never learn them
and so few new songs
that we fail
to benefit from them.
All right,
so there's that tension.
Don't do so many new songs
that we never have
the time to learn them
and don't do so few new songs
that we fail
to benefit from them.
Years ago,
I used to try to teach
two new songs every month,
24 songs a year.
That,
I don't know how we did that.
I don't know why we did that,
but we did it,
and it seemed to work
for a couple years.
But now,
we probably teach
10 songs,
maybe.
Some of those
we do once,
but a lot of them
we do because
we want to
inject them
into the repertoire
of the church.
So yeah,
it varies.
You know,
learning two,
three songs
every couple months
is doable.
Learning four songs
a month isn't.
And the problem is
we have access
to so many songs now,
don't we?
There,
I just did this research
recently.
I forget how many
worship songs
are being uploaded
a year.
Oh,
I want to say
something like
2,500.
But,
well,
maybe it was
1,000 a month,
which would be
24,000.
It's a lot.
You can't do
all those songs.
And not all
those songs
are really great.
A lot of them
have some good
things in them.
Let's sing
the really great
songs.
We do about
110 songs a year
total
for any given
calendar year.
That's because
there's 52 weeks,
you'll probably
repeat half of them.
So we do five songs
a Sunday,
typically.
And 52 weeks,
that's 260 songs.
We do half of them
twice.
That's right,
now you've got 130.
130 songs
that you're doing.
And then do some
of them three times,
well,
that's probably
down to 110.
So we do about
110 songs a year.
We can be really
choosy about what
we do.
So don't do
so many new songs
people can't remember,
but don't do so few
that people don't
benefit.
There's a really,
really great song
that fits into
what your church
is learning,
or a song that
they just should sing.
So when Yet
Not I came out,
I thought,
this is the song
I want to sing.
This is going to
serve our church
for years and years.
So I just looked
for a time
that would be right
to introduce it.
Because every song
says something,
and you want to
incorporate,
again,
think about transitions,
you want to incorporate
it in a time
when it makes sense,
not just because
it's a great song.
Number 10,
blaming sin
on being a musician
doesn't make it
any less sinful.
moodiness,
oversensitivity,
procrastination,
pride,
irresponsibility,
and laziness
aren't due
to being a musician.
They're due
to indwelling sin.
And it's not
generally helpful
when musicians
just hang around
with other musicians
because we can all
cover for ourselves.
Yeah,
of course you're like,
yeah,
I get it,
get to know
non-musicians
in your church.
Be a part of a small group
that's not just musicians.
Always discourage
musical small groups.
I mean,
you know,
this is going to be
our small group,
the band.
I don't think you'll,
because we just start
to think everybody
thinks like us.
It's not true.
People have problems
for the same reasons
we do,
they're just,
they're different problems.
The roots are the same.
And I expect you
to tell me
if there's anything
in your life
that would make
what you're doing
disqualifying.
It would disqualify
you for what you're doing.
I would expect
that of a musician,
especially a leader.
Number 11,
your goal isn't leading.
Your goal in leading
isn't performing,
but pastoring
and participation.
That's shepherding,
you might say.
If the people
in your church
generally aren't singing,
then you're,
what you're doing
is probably more performing
than leading
congregational worship.
And you want to aim
to shepherd their souls,
not put on a show.
Your job isn't done
just because you practiced.
You know,
we practiced
for two hours this week.
Okay,
that's great,
excellent.
Your job
is to shepherd people
to sing,
to give them reasons
to sing
when we gather.
Reasons churches
don't sing
include range.
We talked about that.
Melody being too difficult,
the band being too loud,
too many new songs,
the arrangements
too complicated
or too new.
Yeah,
there are just
a lot of reasons.
We just want
to make sure
that whosoever up here
is encouraging people
to sing
by portraying Christ
in all his glory
to them
through the words
we're singing
and the scriptures
we're reading.
And leading
with your eyes open
most of the time
will communicate
your care
and also help you gauge
how people are responding.
So if I had a leader
who was like this
all the time,
I would say,
open your eyes,
look at us,
let us know
you're happy to be here.
Let us know
that we are doing
this together.
That's a good thing
to communicate.
And then finally
for the pastors,
ultimately,
or for the music leaders,
ultimately Christ
is our worship leader,
not you.
I just want you
to know that.
You don't have
to feel the pressure
to bring us
into the throne room
because you can.
Jesus has already
done that.
Therefore,
brothers,
since we have confidence
to enter the holy places
by the blood of Jesus,
by the new and living way
that he opened for us
through the curtain
that is through his flesh,
and since we have
a great priest
over the house of God,
let us draw near.
It's open.
The way is open.
We're in Christ.
We're seated
in the heavenly places.
We're just reminding people.
So don't feel pressure
about leading us.
I don't want you
to come in with this anxiety
as you're leading
the congregation.
It's a joy.
It's a privilege.
It's what an opportunity
to let people know
how glorious Christ is.
And the more you point
us to what Christ has done
and is doing for us,
the less will see you.
So those are some
of the things
that I want my worship
pastor to know.
Now let's flip it
and say,
if I am the music leader,
the worship pastor,
what would I want
my pastor to know?
I think there are
10 of these.
Yeah.
Oh, 11.
Okay.
I must have added one.
All right.
Communication in advance
makes for a more unified,
edifying meeting.
Just let me know
ahead of time
something of what's coming
really helps me.
Not figure out the meeting,
you know,
Saturday night
as you get your message to me.
and I'm trying to
put everything together.
I'd rather know
what you want
before the meeting
than after the meeting.
Now that requires
the musician
getting the stuff
to the pastor
before the meeting,
but I'd rather know
what you want
before the meeting
rather than after the meeting.
The earlier I know
you're preaching,
for us,
the better we can prepare
the last song.
Although we have
a very flexible
thing going there.
you know,
I'll send out
the liturgy,
maybe we talk about
this in Q&A,
but on Tuesday afternoon
generally,
and then I'll say
to this preacher,
hey, if you have
a better last song,
let me know.
And then sometimes
they'll email me
Saturday
or sometimes
Sunday morning
and sometimes
we'll just show up
and say,
okay, we're not
doing that song.
And then sometimes
it'll come in the last
10 minutes of the message
and we'll realize
the song we pick
is not the right song.
And I'll just text
everybody in the group
and we have
an admin,
Amanda,
who's just amazing.
We'll say,
Amanda, we're doing
this song
and the projectionist
gets it.
Everybody gets it.
And then we come up
and as the pastor's praying,
she just distributes
that paper
and all everybody's,
you know,
music stand
and then we just
do the song.
And it works.
You know,
we don't use like
iPads and stuff.
That'd make it easier,
I guess.
but our goal
is to sing songs
that are going to fit,
that are relevant,
that are a right response
to the message.
Yes,
so church will be
better served
if we've coordinated
what we're going to do
in advance.
The way we do this
is we plan on Tuesday,
put the whole thing
together
and then send it out
and then any pastors
can get back to me
if they think
that something
should be different,
want something changed,
want something added.
Sometimes a guy
will say,
hey,
can I do this
scripture instead?
You know,
and then we arrive Sunday
and things might change
during the week.
Oh,
we have this testimony
we forgot about
or we're having a baptism.
Once I plan,
we plan a Sunday
and then we found out
we're doing communion.
Oh,
okay,
great,
let's just change that.
But we're trying
to be intentional
in our planning
but then also be open
to changes.
Our plan's not
the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit
helps us plan,
plan's not the Holy Spirit.
Two,
consistent and specific
encouragement
and evaluation
will make me
a better leader.
Consistent and specific
encouragement
and evaluation
will make me
a better leader.
And I have been
blessed
to have had
a senior pastor
for
almost 30 years
who has
modeled this.
I remember
the early years
when I first
moved to
a church in Maryland
where C.J. Mahoney
was the senior pastor.
He would pull me aside
after the meeting
every week
and just say,
hey,
this was really great.
This was really great.
This is,
I really appreciate
when you repeat
that chorus.
And then a couple
things that maybe
could do better.
Don't do this.
Some of those things
have stayed with me
for decades.
He shared them.
It wasn't complicated.
It wasn't heavy.
It was just,
yeah,
I think this could be
better.
And what it did
was teach me
how to discern.
Taught me,
like,
okay,
oh,
I felt that
that was too long
when I shared that.
And he said,
yeah,
that went a little long.
Oh,
great.
So when I feel
it's going too long,
it's probably going too long.
Don't have to wonder.
Nah,
they're not going to notice.
Yeah,
they will.
They're noticing.
Some are falling asleep.
Um,
I will thrive and grow
if I know what things
I'm doing
that are serving you
in the church.
Great job
is better than
saying nothing,
but not as good
as telling me
what was helpful
and how I could
improve.
And when you say
helpful,
it's,
you know,
how was God
working through
me today?
What was,
what was,
what was happening?
Um,
CJ does that
to this day.
He,
he comes up,
I mean,
he'll give the benediction,
dismiss the,
uh,
church,
and then he'll turn around
and he'll thank
everybody in the band.
It's just amazing.
And then he'll,
he'll often walk over
and just share
specific things
with people.
You know,
that last song
was just so right
and here's the reason
why it was right.
He didn't have to do that.
But man,
it sure makes,
it sure makes me know,
okay,
he's noticing,
that was helpful.
Um,
I'm happy to serve here.
That's what it does.
It just,
it,
it just tells you,
um,
it tells the,
the music leader
that they're seeing,
that they're appreciated,
they're valued,
and
when you give them
evaluation,
it tells them
how they can grow.
And again,
it's,
if we don't treat
those things
as heavy conversations,
but just as,
hey,
you know,
it'd be more helpful
if you did this.
That,
it just makes it
so much easier.
Saying nothing
for long periods of time
tempts me to think
that what I do
is unimportant,
wrong,
or unnecessary.
So there should be
an ongoing conversation.
Number three,
God intended singing
to be a means
of teaching
and admonishing.
So this is to balance
out before.
What I do
is more than a warm-up
for the sermon.
Singing's not just
a warm-up
for the sermon.
It's not just
to fill the time.
It's not just
to get people
emotionally excited.
It is a word ministry.
And you will serve me,
yourself,
the church,
and most importantly,
the Lord,
if you care as much
about the words we sing
as the words you preach.
So I want you to care
about what we're singing.
And by the way,
your favorite song
might not be the best song
for the church to sing.
And a song
that you might not
really like
might really bless
the church.
So we have these
conversations
on my pastoral team
where there'll be
certain songs
that two of my
pastor's friends
call happy clappy songs.
And that is how
they do it.
And I say,
yeah,
it always looks awkward
when you do it
like that.
But I've never seen
anybody in our
congregation do that.
They're all singing
the songs wholeheartedly.
And we joke
around a lot about it.
Number three,
God intended singing
to be a means of teaching
in a monastery.
I just did that.
Number four,
your example and engagement
when we sing
says volumes
not only about
your support of me
but about your heart
to praise God
with the church.
So when the singing's
happening,
don't be looking
at your notes
the entire time.
Don't be looking
distracted.
Don't be folding
your arms
and just kind of
checking things out.
Humanly speaking,
the pastor is the leader
of the congregational worship
and people rarely rise
above the example
of their pastor.
They can
but it's not normal.
Number five,
I need your trust
to lead effectively.
So we're partners
not competitors.
I'll lead better
if I know
I have your support.
If there are reasons
you can't trust me,
let me know.
I want your leadership
and input
but micromanaging
what I do
tends to negatively
affect my desire
to take initiative.
So this is a relationship
I have with CJ.
So I've known him
for 50 years
so there's a little bit
of trust built there.
But we'll talk
about something
and say,
well I think
it could go this way
and I say,
well I think
it could go this way
and he said,
what about this?
And he said,
well you know what,
you're the leader,
you make the decision.
That's like a,
wow really?
Yeah,
we've talked about it,
you know where I am,
I know where you are,
you know,
when you get to that moment
you make the decision.
That's huge.
You know for him to say,
I trust you with this.
So if I don't have your trust,
tell me how I can earn it.
Number six,
you don't have to be
musically trained
to help me do
what I do better.
A lot of pastors
they check out
because well I don't have
any music theory training,
I never took an instrument,
I can barely sing.
That's okay.
That doesn't mean
you can't tell me
how to pastor
a congregation
or how to communicate
effectively
or how to make
theological connections
and if something
doesn't feel right to me,
just tell me,
we'll figure out
what it is,
just tell me
in your words
and we'll get
to the bottom
of what I can do
to change
that will solve
that problem.
But don't just check out
because you say,
well I'm not musical.
I might have to work hard
to understand
what you're saying,
you might use phrases
and words
that initially sound to me
like what,
what,
hey,
but if I ask you more
I can get to the bottom
of what you're feeling
and there may be something
there for me to learn.
Number seven,
it would benefit
our relationship
and the church
if we occasionally
did things together
like go to a conference,
like read a book,
like read an article,
pray together.
I don't want to undermine you
by leading
in areas
you aren't fully convinced,
don't understand
or haven't thought about.
I want us to be
on the same page
in this.
My ministry
will be more effective
if I know
your heart
for this church,
if I know
your vision
and I need
and want
your perspectives
on topics
or areas
that are popular
in worship conversations
of the church.
So,
you know,
we're surrounded
by this world
of thoughts
and ideas
and opinions
and they're just everywhere.
Well,
I would love to know
what you think about them.
that will help me
as I make decisions.
A lot of times
these conversations
just aren't happening.
So,
if you're a musician
and your pastor
is not having them,
it would help you
and help him
to say,
hey,
let's talk about
some of these things.
Let's watch
this YouTube video.
What do you think
about that?
Let's read this article.
What do you think
about that?
And just come
to a consensus
of where the church
should be led.
Number eight,
when you encourage
and pay attention
to the band members,
you build trust.
I kind of commented
on that
with CJ's encouragement.
We thrive
in an atmosphere
of encouragement
and your words
of thanks
carry more weight
than you know.
Another thing
a pastor can do
is reference songs
that have been sung
in the meeting.
You know how
we just sang?
You know how
we just sang?
That just gives people
the awareness
that,
oh,
we're doing
the same thing here.
Like,
we're singing
these truths,
now we're just
hearing about them
from the word.
But it's the same thing.
Number ten,
if I'm a volunteer,
I may not have time
to do everything
you want me to do.
Oh,
actually,
I skipped number nine.
If I'm full-time,
I'd rather know you
as a pastor and friend
than a manager
or a supervisor
if I'm full-time.
The occasional meal,
email,
question about my life
goes a long way
towards building trust.
You can think of me
as an employee
if you like,
but Jesus is building
a church,
not a business.
And I'd love
to be a friend
to you,
a supportive friend
to you.
And if you give me
significant responsibility
in leading the church
each Sunday,
it's to your advantage
to know me well.
All right,
number ten,
if I'm a volunteer,
I may not have time
to do everything
you want me to do.
If I'm not
a full-time staff member,
you may need
to lower your expectations
in terms of what
I can actually accomplish.
I want to serve you
and the church,
so I may need help
keeping my family
a priority.
Because, you know,
some volunteers
do too much,
but other volunteers,
there's too much
expected of them.
So again,
conversations
help work that out.
How much can you
actually give?
I had a guy
email you years ago
and just say,
yeah,
I orchestrate our songs
for the church.
I just found out
my wife had cancer.
And so I'm struggling
with, like,
how can I keep
this thing going
with the church?
How can I keep
doing the orchestrations
and take care of her?
I just emailed
right back and said,
I'm not sure
I didn't say it like this,
but God couldn't care
less about your
instrumentations,
your orchestrations.
Care for your wife.
Those don't make
the meaning.
And you'd be surprised
how often we
develop these ways
of thinking
where the
lesser important things
become really
important to us.
let's always be
going back
and checking
what are the
most important things?
What are the
most important things?
So if I'm a
part-time leader,
I will need your
help in understanding
where my priorities
should be.
Number 11,
including good sound,
projection,
and lighting
in the budget
is really helpful.
Communicates your
support and serves
the church.
Things wear out,
things break,
technology improves.
we can get more
for less than
ever before,
and some issues
can only be solved
by spending money.
And that's just
a reality.
With sound,
instruments,
yeah,
that's what happens.
Challenge me if you
think my goals
are unrealistic,
but let's at least
have a conversation.
And again,
depending on the
individual circumstance,
that conversation
may look very different.
You have musicians
who never even
give a thought to it,
and then you have
musicians who want
every new latest gadget
that's out there.
And then you have
pastors.
Usually pastors aren't,
well, they just don't
want to spend a lot
of money.
That's kind of
the general category.
And so just having
that conversation,
we just went through
a thing at our church
where we had a,
there's a brother
in the Sovereign
Church in Pennsylvania
who runs a sound
company.
He had a set
of speakers
that he wasn't
able to,
he was going to
install them in a
building and they
didn't need them
after all,
couldn't get them.
So he said,
hey, can I install
them in your building
and you can just
kind of have them
there to try out.
And maybe you
could either rent
them or pay for
them eventually.
He was just kind
of vague about it.
And I said,
well, yeah, sure,
if you want to
install some new
speakers in our
building, great.
That we don't have
to be committed
to to buy,
yeah, I'm all in.
So a couple years
went by and
actually installed
one more speaker
after that.
And it turns out
he had been waiting
for a couple big
jobs to come through
and he was intending
to give them to us.
and those jobs
didn't come through.
So he emailed me
and said, hey,
you know, this is
what happened.
These jobs didn't
come through.
So could we establish
some kind of, you
know, payback plan?
And so then I brought
it to the elders.
So this would be
seven other guys
and said, hey,
this is the deal.
This is what he's
asking.
And, you know,
could we manage
some kind of,
you know, payment
per month?
And someone suggested,
hey, why don't we
just take it from,
we have a building
fund.
Why don't we just
take it from the
building fund and
give them the whole
amount and then
give them like,
you know, $3,500
extra.
And I can't tell you
how happy that email
made me feel.
It's like, wow.
And I can't tell you
how happy it made
the guy feel
when he got my
response.
Hey, we're not only
not paying you back
month to month,
we're paying you
the whole thing
and we'll give you
an extra $3,500.
But it was that
kind of leaning
forward to the
guy saying, yeah,
these are serving
us.
Yeah, this serves
the preacher,
it serves the
music, and we
want to bless this
guy.
Isn't that that
heart of the
gospel?
It's just always
giving, giving.
You know, the
Lord Jesus, for our
sake he became
poor so that we
might become
rich through
him.
Not in a
financial sense,
but in a way
that we know
that in all
things at all
times he will
provide all that
we need so that
we might be
generous to
others.
So it was just
a wonderful
recent experience.
Okay, benefits
of being a team,
and then we're
going to sing a
song, I think,
that has nothing
to do with this,
but we are going
to sing one song.
Take a quick
break and then
do a Q&A.
One, more gets
done when
you're a team.
It's just more
gets done.
Ecclesiastes 4,
9 and 10, two
are better than
one because they
have a good
reward for their
toil.
For if they
fall, the one
will lift up
his fellow, but
woe to him who
is alone when he
falls and has not
another to lift
him up.
It really is
better.
Any kind of
ministry that you're
in right now, if
you're full-time, if
you're thinking about
becoming full-time, if
you're a volunteer, if
you're just a member
of the team, any
kind of work you're
doing to serve the
church is better with
someone else.
We're just not doing
this to get a name
for ourselves, to
impress everybody with
our skills.
We get to do it
together because of
what the Lord Jesus
has done for us.
Two, another benefit,
you have multiple
perspectives.
No one gets it
right all the time.
And you want to
work together to
determine what's
best.
I mean, I've been
doing this for a
long time.
And so I can slip
into the mentality
of, well, you know,
I teach on this
stuff.
You know, of course
I'm always right.
You know what
Proverbs says about a
man who's always
right in his own
eyes?
There's more hope
for a fool than
for him.
See, a man who's
wise in his own
eyes, there's more
hope for a fool
than for him.
Whoever trusts
his own mind is a
fool, but he who
walks in wisdom
will be delivered.
Woe to those
who are wise in
their own eyes
and shrewd in
their own sight.
I have these in
my mind and heart
because I am so
prone to being wise
in my own eyes.
And we don't want
to be wise in
our own eyes.
Work together to
determine what's
best.
This is a quote
from Alan Ross's
book, Recalling
the Hope of Glory,
which if you want
a theology on
worship in the
Old Testament,
fantastic.
It's called
Recalling the Hope
of Glory by
Alan Ross.
He says,
there is so much
in the Bible
about worship
activities that
there is no reason
for any church to
limit itself to a
set pattern that
appeals to only one
segment of the
congregation.
Worship in the
Bible in both
Testaments was
varied in form,
content, purpose,
and mood.
If the church
wants to draw out
the richness of
worship, it will
strive for greater
variation within the
proper forms,
and a greater
balance in
structured and
free worship.
In other words,
saying, if you do
it just like the
pastor wants or
just like the
worship leader wants,
that's probably not
going to be the
best situation.
You need
perspectives of
both, and
probably more
people, to
really do what
is going to be
best for the
church.
And finally,
of course, God
receives more
glory when we're
working together,
when we're working
with the people
around us.
The worship of
God in your
church is not
ultimately dependent
on a worship
leader or the
pastor, but on
God's grace,
working through
humble servants
who would desire
his glory above
all.
So we end with
this.
May the God of
endurance and
encouragement grant
you to live in
such harmony with
one another in
accord with Christ
Jesus that together
you may with one
voice glorify the
God and Father of
our Lord Jesus
Christ.
Father, we thank
you for the
opportunity to
consider these
things.
We pray that you
would enable us by
your spirit to
enjoy the things
that you have
given us, the
opportunities you
have given us,
and to make us
more easy to work
with.
Father, would you
do that for your
glory?
We pray in Jesus'
name.
Amen.