Trinity - the Holy Spirit
[0:00] Christianity. We saw this guy, Emperor Constantine, who became a Christian whilst he was a Roman emperor, and first Christian to be in that position.
[0:14] ! When he conquered the Eastern Empire, we saw that he discovered a popular heresy called Arianism from this guy Arius, who was a popular preacher in Libya, who said there was once a time when the Son was not.
[0:48] In other words, he was saying that the Son is not eternally God's. The Son was kind of created by God the Father. And we were showing, reminding ourselves in Scripture that that really is not the case.
[1:06] We thought about the Council of Nicaea. That's really where we properly got up to last week, who came up with the Nicaean Creed to show what the church's beliefs about the Lord Jesus were.
[1:21] And we even said together that part of the Nicaean Creed. But things didn't quite resolve, really.
[1:33] There were more discussions and debates to have about who the Lord Jesus is. Athanasius was key, particularly before Nicaea.
[1:45] And after Nicaea came the Cappadocian fathers, as they're known as. Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa, they're both brothers. And their friend, Gregory of Nazian, says they were really good friends.
[1:59] And they helped the church in the understanding about the Lord Jesus Christ. They particularly were helpful on these two words.
[2:10] If anyone remembers these words, ouzia and hypostasis. You don't need to remember them at all. But those are the two words that the church was kind of getting tied up in knots about, really.
[2:23] And these guys were helpful in helping the church to understand what these words were about. So, ouzia is the one nature being essence of God, which Father, Son, share fully and equally, making them one God.
[2:39] In other words, the Father and Son are both gods. And hypostasis, the particular and distinct form in which the divine nature exists in Father and Son, making them two distinct persons.
[2:52] In other words, the Father and Son are two distinct persons. So, the Father and Son are both God, both eternally God, both God in their one nature together.
[3:08] But they are both distinct persons. And these guys were bringing these two things together because the church was kind of split on these two things. So, that's where we kind of got up to last week.
[3:23] But there were more debates to have about the Holy Spirit. Because at the end of the Nicene Creed, it just said this line, I believe in the Holy Spirit. What do they believe about the Holy Spirit?
[3:37] Well, that's what the church needed to work out. And this is helpful for us to consider this week together. I think looking back on how the church came to its understanding about what the scriptures say about the Holy Spirit is helpful.
[3:56] Helpful because maybe a criticism of a church like ours is that we speak lots about God the Father and God the Son, but maybe we don't speak so much about the Holy Spirit.
[4:09] I read an article by someone this week who wrote about a lady who came to their church. And they came to their church from a more charismatic background. And they said, you evangelicals believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Bible.
[4:25] It's not true, is it? But maybe, maybe people may say that. We want to see what scripture says about the Holy Spirit. And we're going to be helped this evening from the early church, from the 4th century church, about where they came to on the Holy Spirit.
[4:48] The discussions about the Holy Spirit particularly arose because there was this group called the Macedonians.
[5:02] One of their leaders, called Macedonia, was Bishop of Constantinople. And yet he was deposed by some Aryans because he believed in Christ's deity.
[5:15] He believed that Jesus was God, fully God. So the Aryans didn't like him. So he was brilliant on Christ.
[5:25] But in terms of the Holy Spirit, he was not so good. He believed that the Holy Spirit wasn't God. He believed that the Son of God created the Holy Spirit.
[5:38] Kind of similar in a way to what Aryans believed about Jesus, being created by God the Father. And so Macedonians' followers became known as pneumatomachai, which means fighters against the Spirit.
[5:55] Pneumatomachai sounds like some sort of evil character in a Marvel film, doesn't it? So that's what they became known as, fighters against the Spirit.
[6:07] Because they did not believe the Spirit was God's. And so, these guys come in again.
[6:18] And particularly Basil, Basil of Caesarea, he wrote on the Holy Spirit, was his book. It was his response to the Macedonians when he discovered that when prayers, when they finished saying their prayers, they finished saying, Glory to the Father with the Son, together with the Holy Spirit.
[6:42] The Macedonians were only happy to say some different words. Glory to the Father with the Son in the Holy Spirit, rather than together with the Holy Spirit.
[6:56] In other words, he picked up that there was an issue with them. The issue being that they don't believe the Spirit is God. And so, what we're going to do for the next 15, 20 minutes or so, is think together about some of what Basil wrote about the Holy Spirit.
[7:18] So, kind of look back on some of his writings. I've been reading them again and trying to digest them and understand them. And hopefully, it will be helpful for us to consider these things.
[7:32] So, a bit like a sermon, we have three points. In the second point, we'll do some working groups as well to keep us going. So, the first thing that Basil says on the Holy Spirit is that the Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son.
[7:51] The Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son. So, Basil says, when we read of the Holy Spirit in the Bible, how could we not possibly lift our eyes and see him as the Supreme Being?
[8:08] In other words, see him as God. See him as part of the Trinity, part of the Godhead. A couple of examples that he shows from Scripture in his writings.
[8:21] So, the first one is in John 15, verse 26. And I wonder if someone wants to, when they get to that verse, read it out nice and clearly for us.
[8:40] John 15, verse 26. John 15, verse 26.
[8:52] When the advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
[9:04] Yeah, thank you. So, we're told of the Spirit here that he is described as the advocate or some other translations.
[9:19] We'll say counselor. Is that what it says in the old NIV? Yeah. Helper. Comforter is probably used in some versions.
[9:30] So, we're told that the Spirit is going to come, advocate, counselor, helper, is going to come, and he's going to be sent from the Father.
[9:45] Does Jesus say in the name of the Son? Whom I will send to you from, Jesus will send to you from the Father. He will send the Spirit. And Basil would point to this verse and say, how can we not read this verse and not see this as the Spirit of God?
[10:07] God coming to us. To change tacks slightly, Genesis. So, right at the beginning of time.
[10:18] Genesis chapter 1, verse 1 and 2. Can someone read that when they get there? Nice and clearly for us.
[10:31] In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void. The darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the deep.
[10:46] In the beginning, God. God. He alone was there. And we're told in verse 2 that the Spirit, the Spirit of God was there.
[10:59] He is God. There was nobody else there. Nobody other than God. And Basil points his readers to that verse, showing us that he is God.
[11:12] That Basil wants people to know that on hearing of the Spirit in the Bible, we are not hearing about someone who's been created. We're not reading about someone who is limited.
[11:25] We're not reading about someone who is subject to change. We're speaking of one who is powerful. One whose greatness is unlimited.
[11:36] One who is unmeasured by time. One who is generous in his good gifts. Who lacks nothing. Who is the supplier of life.
[11:47] The source of sanctification. Applies illumination to show us who Jesus is. And to help us in our search for truth.
[12:00] Secondly, and in a moment we'll split into groups. But just say a few things about this. The Spirit is inseparable from the work of the Father and the Son.
[12:13] And that is to say that because God is one, each person in the Trinity is inseparable. You can't have the Father without the Son. Or the Father and the Son without the Spirit.
[12:27] They might have distinct actions and roles that they play, but they are inseparable from one another. They're not in competition or anything. And this affirming this helps us be protected from some heresies about God that were around in these times that Basil was writing.
[12:52] So one is called modalism. Three different modes of activity that God performs. God is Father, Son and Spirit, but at different times. It's a bit like playing a video game.
[13:06] You're switching between modes. That's not what God is like. God is three distinct persons in one. And they are inseparable from one another.
[13:17] But He's not. The Father sometimes. And the Son another time. And the Spirit another time. That is not true. At Polytheism, Polytheism even, which says that the Father, Son and Spirit are three different gods.
[13:36] But no, Basil affirms for us that each person is part of the one God. The one essence that is God. They're not three different gods.
[13:49] The Father hasn't created the Son as a lesser God. The Son hasn't created the Spirit as a lesser God. That they are each and every one eternally God.
[13:59] We believe in one God in three persons who are inseparable from one another. It's now time for you to do some work.
[14:14] Okay? So, the question is, how do these verses help us understand that the Spirit is God? What we'll do in our groups is to spend five to ten minutes.
[14:24] We'll see how we're doing on this question. But there's lots of different passages in your groups. You might not get through all of them. So, why don't we do it like this? So, this group of the front, if you look at Genesis, start in Genesis, basically, you can work down.
[14:46] But if you just stay in Genesis, that's fine. This group over here, Jerome, Pearson's and Assema, and I'll come over to you probably. Matthew 28 one, if you start there.
[15:03] Back group, so where David to David are. With Pete and Jack in between. If you start on the Acts 5 one, Mark, Shama, Andrea.
[15:19] On the 1 Corinthians 12, and then the front one, this side here, the big group, 1 Corinthians 14.
[15:32] You have permission to look at all of them, if you want to. So, we cover it all. Five to ten minutes, we'll see how far we get, and then we'll share together.
[15:51] We never fully wrap our minds around, we never will. Only really plumb the depths of, is that the right phrase? Yes.
[16:02] Yes. And, yeah, when we, when we see our limited understanding, but see, just maybe a little bit more of who God, it should lead us to praise God.
[16:17] And we'll certainly praise God together. Anyway, discussions in your groups, how have they been, I wonder?
[16:27] Can we start with, thoughts about Genesis? I've got the raving mic, should be on, great. Was it that group?
[16:41] Shama's dubbed you in. Do you have anything to say, on the Genesis, bits? Phil?
[16:55] Phil? We've got the text, that the Spirit of God, was hovering over the waters, Genesis 1, 2, and the, let us make man, in our image, in our likeness.
[17:09] So, I, I, I think the view is that, in the New Testament, the Trinity is fully clear, and very definite.
[17:23] As we look back into the Old Testament, it's something that yet, has to have light shed on it. But, with the New Testament light, in verse 2, the idea of God, being right there, intimately in contact, with his creation, ready to make something of it, is a really, wonderful thought.
[17:47] And, in verse 26, I guess a Jewish reader, who doesn't believe in the Trinity, would struggle a little bit, to work out, why there is a plural there.
[18:01] I don't think it's a sort of, knock down argument, but I think they would struggle, I'd probably have to say, it's an editorial we, or a consultative we, or some sort of, literary convention, but as we look back, as New Testament Christians, we can say, here is the plurality, within God, God, consulting within himself, presumably, in his three persons.
[18:26] Yeah. Helpful. Thank you. Helpful to think, how Jewish person, would be reading that. Yeah. Thank you. Matthew 28, that was, that was, our group, Joram.
[18:44] So, yeah, we were looking at Matthew 28, which is the, well-known text, with the great commission, where, I mean, we were focusing on where, where it says, all authority in heaven, and on earth, has been given to me, go therefore, and make disciples, of all nations, baptizing them, in the name, of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
[19:04] We were thinking about, the name of, not the names, plural, which kind of sheds light, into kind of the Holy, you kind of see the Trinity, you see the three persons, but the unity, the oneness of God.
[19:20] Megan made a really interesting point. She said, at the end, where it says, and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the earth. Megan was asking, is Christ, saying that, I being, the Holy Spirit, given that Christ, is ascended in heaven, and Christ, in his humanity, is localized in heaven.
[19:43] And we, we haven't got the answer, but we were thinking, about when Daniel said, earlier on, about how the, the triune God, is indivisible. Wherever the Holy Spirit's working, the Father's working, and the Son is working.
[19:56] And, the Holy Spirit's, ongoing operation, is the Spirit of Christ. So, although Christ, in his humanity, is in heaven, Christ, is, still, omnipresent, as God, as the Holy Spirit, among us.
[20:12] And I thought, I couldn't find the text, at the time, but I thought, there was somewhere, in the New Testament, that's so daring, Paul, almost conflates, the Spirit, with the Lord.
[20:23] And it's in, 2 Corinthians 3, 17, where, where Paul, kind of, gets at this a little bit, where he says, now the Lord, is the Spirit. The Lord, being Christ.
[20:35] So, you see that kind of, indivisible operation, of the Spirit, and the Son. Now the Lord, is the Spirit, and where the Spirit, of the Lord is, there is freedom. Thank you.
[20:49] My, my addition, to our, chat, was, that, Jesus, when, when he talks about, the promise of the Holy Spirit, he, he says, anyone who loves me, will obey my teaching, my Father will love them, and we will come to them, and make our home, with them.
[21:10] And he makes, his home, with us, by his Spirit. But all, three persons, were involved, it's, yeah, mind boggles.
[21:25] Thank you. Acts 5? Who, was it the back group? Thanks, I said.
[21:43] Pete and David, are pointing at each other, this is fun. You don't, you don't have to speak, you, it's, entirely optional. Okay, so this is, Acts 5, and this is, the time in Acts, when the, oh, if you could hold the, microphone closer to you.
[22:00] Okay. When the multitude, were sharing all their possessions, possessions, and our particular passage, was when Ananias, and his wife knew, that they basically, they'd sold some possessions, but they'd held back, some of the proceeds.
[22:15] And, Peter says to him, being aware of that, he said, you've, because he's held, back some of his possessions, he says, you've lied to the Holy Spirit.
[22:26] Hmm. And later on, it says, in the verses, it says, you haven't lied to men, but to God. Hmm. So the Spirit and God.
[22:38] You've lied to the Holy Spirit, you've lied to God. Same thing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's really helpful, verse in this, showing this, that the Spirit is God.
[22:54] Um, there. Um, 1 Corinthians 12 passage, was that Mark's Greek? Okay. Um, from, from where we read, um, verse 1 to 6, we see a repetition of, of phrase, um, from verse 4.
[23:14] Uh, now, now there are different kinds of gifts, spiritual gifts, but it is the same Holy Spirit. Then, verse 5 says, there are different kinds of service in the church, but it is the same Lord, um, Jesus.
[23:31] There are different, that's, for them, verse 6 says, there are different ways God works in our lives, but it is the same God. So, we are seeing that it brings the three of them, in the, three consecutive verses, um, together.
[23:48] So, that's how we know that they are one. And then, uh, I think verse 1 says, and now, dear brothers and sisters, I will, I will write about those special abilities, the Holy Spirit gives each of us.
[24:04] So, um, um, that's the premise that sets, that is set for the three other verses that we see there. Um, we're talking about special abilities and gifts, um, service, and workings.
[24:19] It's the same Lord, it's the same Spirit, it's the same God. So, that's how we know we're talking about, um, a triune God, um, Elohim, according to the Hebrew.
[24:31] Thanks, Shemma. Um, 1 Corinthians 14. Yes, thank you, Daniel.
[24:42] Hello. That was really tricky. I'm so sorry, I can't even remember what that was. Well, yeah. Um, shall I read it? Yes, please.
[24:53] Uh, but if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they're convicted of sin and are brought under judgment. I see, see why you're struggling.
[25:05] Bye-bye. As the secrets of their hearts are laid bare, so they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, God is really among you. Yes, thank you, yeah. Well, actually, what did you make of it?
[25:16] Well, it didn't make a lot of sense just those two verses, but we looked back at the 1 Corinthians 12, 1 to 6, um, which says that, um, oh, that is the bottom bit.
[25:30] Oh, sorry, yeah. Okay, um, that, um, no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit and therefore, um, if someone's gonna fall down and worship God saying that God is really among you, it's got to be by the working of the Holy Spirit.
[25:49] Yeah, that's really great. Um, really good, really, really good job at it, um, getting in context. Um, probably the, the, uh, the one thing I would add to that is Paul's kind of talking about gifts of the Spirit on the church, um, and as, as, as people come into a church and, and see, uh, the Spirit of God at work, they're, they're falling down, they're saying God is really among you.
[26:22] Yeah. Um, yeah, that's really, yeah, really good. Well done, everyone. You, you had a big group to work it out together, so you, you, you were fine. You did a great job. Um, shall I take, take the mic?
[26:34] Um, please do. Yeah. It's on. Okay. Probably. My question is, you have church leaders who are, um, may have started well at one time and then have gone into deception and have gone off the rails, but then, they still say Jesus is Lord, so that confuses me.
[27:08] Um, in, in what way does it confuse you? Because in, in the Bible it says, unless it, by the Spirit of God, that's the only way you can say Jesus is Lord.
[27:21] Mm. But, God knows our hearts. Um, God knows if, if we're genuine believers or not.
[27:34] Um, you, you would hope if someone is, is teaching deception, uh, if they, if they're purposely deceiving people, um, then, and they're saying, but they're saying, Jesus is God, well, um, yeah, I, I don't know.
[27:53] I, I, I don't know people's hearts. Um, if, if someone's purposely setting out to deceive people about, uh, the Lord Jesus, maybe they're trying to tell people, you have to give lots of money, um, to win favor with God or something, then, they're deceiving people, and they have wrong motives, um, and maybe, maybe they're not genuine believers, um, or they need to repent, and, yeah, I, yeah, um, God knows their hearts.
[28:31] I'll, I'll leave it at that. Uh, David. David. I think you have to use that passage in the context of spiritual gifts, so it's to do with someone, someone speaking in tongues, or someone's got as a prophecy.
[28:48] Mm. Um, in that, in that sense, they can only say Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit.
[28:59] So, uh, to, to, to, to, to, to weigh the, um, to weigh what they are saying in tongues, or prophecy, uh, does it, uh, does it seem, uh, does it seem right?
[29:16] Does it seem what God would say to, because, uh, he, he also goes on to say to test all things. Mm. So, it's in that context.
[29:26] That's what I think, anyway. Yeah, we, we test things, don't we, by God's word? In the context of spiritual gifts, that's what I mean. That's, that's that passage. Yeah, uh, in, in this particular passage, yeah.
[29:37] Um, we, we, we need to, we need to make, make effort to, to stay clear of error and to, to correct people if they, they are wrong, but, um, yeah.
[29:53] Um, okay. Thanks, Osama. Thanks, David. Um, the point of what we've kind of done, um, behind us, um, is showing us that the spirit is God in his being.
[30:13] Um, um, he is inseparable from the father and the son. He is God. No other categories, no order of one being better than the other in the Trinity.
[30:29] Um, they are father, son, and spirit inseparably, inseparably working together. Third and final thing that Basil wants us to see is that the spirit deserves equal honor, equal honor, equal praise with the father and the son.
[30:50] He wants us to understand that the spirit must be worthy of as much honor as the father and son are. Just as the father and son are holy, so is the spirit holy.
[31:02] We praise him for that. Just as the father and son are good, so is the spirit good. We praise him for that. Just as, uh, the father and, and the son are, uh, righteous, so is the spirit.
[31:17] So I could go on and we honor him for that. Um, we honor him for his work that he does in us.
[31:29] So, uh, 1 Corinthians 6, verse 11 says, you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.
[31:43] We can praise him for that work of washing and sanctification of justification. Um, this wonderful, wonderfully Trinitarian verse, because you are his sons, God sent the spirit of his son into our hearts.
[32:03] The spirit calls out Abba Father. Because of the spirit we, that lives in us, we, we are, we are known as God's sons, uh, God's sons.
[32:15] Uh, and by the spirit we cry out Abba Father, Father, you're my father. Um, a wonderful, a little quotation Basil says, and I didn't actually quite know where best to fit it in, so I've put it in, in here.
[32:32] Um, Basil says, when we see Christ, the brightness of God's glory, it is always through the illumination of the spirit. When we see Jesus, when we behold him as our saviour, as our lord, as our king, we see him like that because of the spirit's work in us.
[32:53] And so we praise the spirit that he's, he's shown us Christ. What a wonderful thing. Thank you, Holy Spirit, for showing us Christ.
[33:08] Basil says that we should not be too afraid to go beyond the bounds in the extravagance of honour that we pay to the spirit. In other words, we cannot give enough glory to the spirit.
[33:22] Or, of course, God the Father and God the Son. Um, this point, I'd love us to do two things.
[33:33] Um, we'll go back to kind of the history stuff, but I think what, what Basil's said, what we've looked at from God's word is, um, helping us to just understand a bit more for ourselves about the spirit, understand what they were thinking, uh, back in the fourth century and all these debates.
[33:51] Um, let's just, just pause for a moment, um, and just, um, pray prayers of, of praise to our trying God for, uh, the way the spirit has worked in us, he's worked salvation in us, he's sanctifying us, he blesses us with gifts we can use in God's service in the church, he's shown Christ to us, um, why don't we pray just two or three prayers, uh, maybe more, um, of praise, and then we'll sing, um, a song about the Holy Spirit and then we'll, uh, finish with a few more minutes, uh, of the history stuff.
[34:36] So do lead us in prayer. But you haven't, uh, as the Lord Jesus, uh, left this earth, uh, you haven't left us on our own, you've, uh, come to dwell with us by your Spirit.
[34:54] You've come to make your home with us, Jesus says. And we thank you for that. Thank you that we have the Spirit living inside us. We praise you for that and his work in us.
[35:07] Amen. Are we gonna sing a song? I, I think it's a great song which helps us to, um, praise, uh, God, um, for the Holy Spirit, for your gift of God the Spirit.
[35:20] It goes to a tune which, um, hopefully is familiar to us. Um, so when Phil is ready, uh, we'll, we'll stand and sing.
[35:31] Kind of wrap this up as, uh, the fourth century begins to, uh, come to a close. Um, Basil, uh, whose influence work on the Holy Spirit was hugely influential, uh, along with the two Gregories in helping the church to understand that the Spirit is God's, uh, they created together this kind of following formula for expressing the doctrine of the Trinity.
[35:59] Um, God is three hypostasis and one usia, translation. God is three persons existing eternally in one single being.
[36:14] God is three persons existing eternally in one single being. These are big things. When we're talking about the Trinity, as we've said, they're big things that we're trying to wrap our minds around.
[36:29] Uh, I read what I think is a really helpful illustration, um, all illustration of the Trinity fall down in some ways and, and all of them pretty much are unhelpful to use, but I think this is actually quite helpful.
[36:43] Um, uh, I read this, uh, this week, um, writer was saying, imagine a mountain with three sides and whichever side of the mountain you look at shows the kind of reality of the same mountain, but each side is distinct from the other, but each side is still part of the one mountain.
[37:09] Um, I'm sure you can tell me where that falls down short, but, uh, helpful just to kind of, just help our minds to grasp a little bit of, of what the Trinity is, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, uh, three persons existing eternally in one single being.
[37:32] Um, yes, David? David? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I was saying to this group in my doctrine of God lectures when I was at Bible college, I used to have to kind of go away and sit in a darkened room for a few minutes, just mind blown.
[37:59] Um, what, what happens, um, after these debates? Well, another council was formed. We had the Council of Nicaea in 325.
[38:10] Uh, in 381, we have the Council of Constantinople, and, uh, they developed the Nicene Creed that we, we thought about, uh, last time to be more robust in its theology about the Lord Jesus, but also to include a clear statement on the Holy Spirit, and it's, said this, um, I should say, and the Son bit was added hundreds of years later, but, um, this is what they said, we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
[38:43] With the Father and Son, he is worshipped and glorified. He is spoken through the prophets. Now, that's where the church got to.
[38:56] And by the end of the fifth century, this was, this creed was being used in churches to help, uh, churches, uh, remember and to understand, uh, the doctrine of the Trinity, Father, Son, Spirit.
[39:11] and we can be thankful that through heresies and divisions in the church, the church did come together to form a clear statement about what they believed.
[39:26] And these events have shaped church history, they've shaped what we believe today. So we can be thankful for those who have gone before. I was then looking up, uh, other councils of the church which followed this.
[39:41] Um, we, we won't get very far on this because they started getting weird. Um, but, uh, in 431, there's the Council of Ephesus. I think it met a few other times, but they were particularly, um, thinking, uh, another heresy, um, Nestorianism, uh, two natures of Christ split in two.
[40:01] So when Christ was on earth, he was a man, Christ is in heaven, he's God, um, they split those two, whereas we, we say he's truly God, truly man, all at the same time.
[40:12] Um, and so the Council of Ephesus came to deal with that. Um, uh, there are still historians apparently in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, uh, and the USA today.
[40:29] Um, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 came together to deal with similar issues to the Council of Ephesus, uh, and they affirmed this together, um, this, this might be getting a bit too much for us now, but I'll, I'll, I'll go through this quickly.
[40:47] Uh, we all teach harmoniously that he is the same perfect in Godhead, the same perfect in manhood, truly God and truly man, the same of a reasonable soul and body, homusios, substance with the Father in Godhead and the same homusios, substance with us in manhood, acknowledged in two natures without confusion, without change, without division, without separation.
[41:13] The Church came to a very clear understanding on, on Jesus as he comes to earth, he's truly God, truly man. other councils came, but as they went on, they became and looked a lot more Roman Catholic, they dealt with icons and worshipping saints and Mary and things like that, so they all start to become rather weird, but we can be thankful for these early ones that we've thought about together.
[41:46] I reckon we've got five to ten minutes at most. David had a question, did anybody else have any question, comment on this before we wrap up?
[42:04] It's okay if you don't. Phil does. Just thinking about, if you could go back to the previous slide, it's fine. Oh yeah, for recording.
[42:15] This slide, this slide? Just thinking that in many ways what that says is what it isn't.
[42:29] I think the statement still preserves a mystery about how Christ can be a hundred percent God and a hundred percent man.
[42:41] I don't think the statement explains it, it just says what it isn't. So at the bit bottom it says without confusion. So it's not like when you mix red paint and white paint and you get pink paint.
[42:56] The natures aren't confused. So white paint and red paint make pink paint which isn't red and it isn't white. it's confused and without change.
[43:07] So Christ didn't become a lesser God or a different human being to us apart from without sin. And then I guess the same thing is true without division, without separation.
[43:19] It's just saying where you go wrong if you go too far outside. It doesn't tell you really what's on the inside. I think we're still left to wonder and marvel and say I don't really understand how Christ can be these things but he is.
[43:37] And we worship him because of it. We marvel, we wonder as you say. Amen. Yeah. Thanks, thanks Phil. David again? And we'll get the microphone to you.
[43:53] I was just thinking that there's a passage in Timothy because it's great is the mystery of godliness. He was manifested in the flesh, seen in the spirit, justified in the spirit, seen among angels, called out to glory, something like that.
[44:09] So it's called a mystery, isn't it? Yes. I'm just trying to find the verses. It's in 1 Timothy, isn't it?
[44:24] 1 Timothy 3. Yeah. Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great. He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the spirit, was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
[44:41] Yeah, he calls it a mystery. Yeah, helpful. Thank you. Shama. I guess looking at the fact that Jesus is perfectly man, perfectly God, 100%, not in percentages.
[45:02] He's 100% man, 100% God. I think I read, I was reading a commentary that tried to give me some kind of understanding. Isaiah 9, verse 6, and then a couple of passages in the Gospels that talk about, Isaiah 9, verse 6 says, unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given.
[45:27] So, the child shows the humanity of Jesus. The son is the divinity. God is sending his son to come to the earth, to, I mean, to die for us and to begin the work of salvation.
[45:45] And then it also talked about the fact that in this cosmic realm, it has to be men that exist. Spirits don't exist.
[45:55] So, for any kind of spirit to find manifestation in this realm where humans are, it needs a body. But then God sent his son, given that spiritual law, it had to be fulfilled and God found the perfect way to do it in his divine wisdom through the immaculate conception that Mary had.
[46:21] Joseph wasn't the biological father of Jesus. So, he was conceived of the Holy Spirit. But every man that walks on the surface of the earth must come through a woman.
[46:33] So, God in his divinity and his divine wisdom made it such that Jesus was going to come as a child, which means born of a woman, but then he's also a son, immaculate conception, conceived of the Holy Spirit in Mary.
[46:49] So, it balances out the entire dynamic of Jesus being both man, both fully man and fully God. All the conditions to fully satisfy being God was met in his conception.
[47:02] All the conditions to fully satisfy him being man was also met within the conception of who Jesus is and how he came to the world.
[47:17] I think when I read that, it kind of helped me balance the whole dynamic. Yeah, that's helpful thoughts.
[47:28] And just thinking as well, when you said about the Isaiah passage, we also reminded last week of that Isaiah passage, it's about him being mighty, God, everlasting father, prince of peace.
[47:41] So, it talks about child, but yeah, it talks about him being God as well. Yeah, helpful. Time for one more. One more. Thanks, thanks Pete.
[47:57] So, I was thinking about perhaps answering our sermon's question as well. Remind us what our sermon's question was.
[48:09] It was about a minister or somebody who might say that Jesus is Lord. Yeah. And I was thinking of Romans 8, that we too have the spirit.
[48:24] therefore, there's no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit for the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[48:40] And then it continues. So, we as regenerated people, can you lift your mouth? So, we as regenerated, receive the Holy Spirit, don't we?
[48:53] So, and yet, so it should free us from sin. sin, it does freeze us from death, but yet, we have this, we still sin.
[49:05] So, we have this dual going on through our life, although we're changed and we're not what we were and we're being sanctified, we still have this sinful nature of man, dual personality, if you like, or being, and the spirit of God.
[49:28] I'm just thinking in what we've said and recognizing the significance of the spirit, which of course we do recognize that, and if we thought on it maybe a bit more, what I'm thinking on at the moment, having the spirit in our life to help us combat sin and to walk according to his purpose.
[49:50] And he is in our life for that, and that could be a whole other evening. And so, to go back to our question, the evidence in the passages we've read of the early church or in Acts, they were given gifts and it was quite evident then that the gift wasn't just to the Jews but to the Gentiles because of the gifts that they received at that time, so they could speak in tongues and so on.
[50:27] And in our age, we've got the gift of the Christian evidence in our lives, hopefully that makes sense, of the indwelling spirit.
[50:39] He's working in our lives and if someone is a true believer that should be evident but there is still sin. Yes. And so, yeah, and God knows whether someone is truly saved or truly not.
[50:58] Did it make sense? Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully that's helped a little bit. Thank you. We're going to end by doing two things, three things in fact.
[51:12] We're going to, in a moment we're going to stand, we're going to say, I said this week after week, day after day when I was at Oak Hill College, it comes at the end of a psalm, it's very Anglican really, but it gives glory to the Father, to the Spirit, to the Son.
[51:29] And then we're going to sing a song, glory be to God the Father, which is the, Corin's excited, Phil's excited, because we were going to sing it earlier instead of the song that we went to sing.
[51:42] And then we're going to end by saying the words of the grace all together. And that would be a good way for us to end. So let's stand, let's give glory to God with our speaking voice and then our singing voice and then in prayer.
[52:01] A glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be world without end.
[52:14] Amen. Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with us all now and ever more.
[52:32] Amen. Thanks everyone.