Deacons - what do they do?

[0:00] Mark, and you can switch it on as and when it becomes necessary. So let's just look back what we were doing before.

[0:11] ! Those are some principles that we were referring back to as to how we think about elders and deacons. We get this from the Bible. We interpret the Bible harmoniously, meaning that we compare and weigh up and balance up.

[0:33] Does my little thing show? Yeah, okay. Okay. We observed that the Bible tends to speak in principles rather than rules, because for one thing this makes it applicable to all places, all culture and all times, rather than if you just have rules.

[0:59] And we said that sometimes the Bible may command things, sometimes it will forbid things, and at other times the Bible will say, well, there's freedom to adapt, to make sure you've got to the root of things, that's what radical means, and it allows us to be flexible.

[1:18] So we might, I think, we might come up with a way of doing things that's not necessarily suitable for another church, but it suits us. I think there's a sense in which that can be rightly done.

[1:32] And we remind ourselves that the church belongs to Jesus Christ as Lord, that the Holy Spirit is the one who gives gifts, not always miraculously, but we shouldn't say that he can't do things miraculously, and certainly things that we hadn't expected.

[1:51] And it's our part to walk in obedience and faith. That includes prayer. So these were questions that we looked at.

[2:01] Some of them I've tidied up my handwriting and others I haven't. So one question was, how do deacons fit with elders? Another question was, can deacons be female?

[2:16] And we had to look at the question, can elders be female at the same time? Question three, what jobs and ministries need to be done and could be done?

[2:27] And we particularly pointed out the importance and indeed the sensitivity of the treasurer, secretary, administrator roles, which are currently largely on raised shoulders.

[2:43] And that shouldn't be something that we allow to continue for very much longer. If you see what I mean. A question here, what people are available to serve?

[2:55] This one here is out of place. Go down.

[3:18] And I wanted to point out, and I did point out the other time, that being a deacon is not like a knighthood. You know, Sir Ben Wheeler.

[3:37] Dame Julia. It is a recognition, but it's also a recognition of somebody who is serving and somebody who is expected to serve.

[3:48] And as we see with Jesus, there's a cost to that, and we shouldn't be blind to that. Then a couple of things about flexibility.

[4:00] Let me come to that one in a moment. And that one. So six and seven were about flexibility.

[4:15] And question eight was this question. Is all word ministry, is everybody who does word ministry automatically or necessarily or ought to be recognized as an elder?

[4:31] And likewise, is everybody who serves in whatever capacity automatically, necessarily ought to be recognized with the word deacon?

[4:42] And if not, we need to know where we draw the line, or we need as a group to be happy that we've drawn a line which makes sense and makes spiritual sense in the current situation that we're in.

[5:00] In the current situation that we're in is that we have 35 members, that we do certain amounts of work, certain amounts of ministry. So I would say that the maximum number of deacons that we could have would be 35.

[5:16] Because we couldn't have more than that. But we might well say it's not sensible to have 35 deacons. We might say it's actually sensible to have fewer and draw lines accordingly.

[5:29] Okay, those were the eight questions. And it was said last time, it would be really helpful if we could make sure that we tackled all of them. So I think some of them can go together.

[5:41] So let me first make some comments on this one, this number six. So, Rod. Who remembers Rod Thomas?

[5:55] Rod Thomas. Okay, Rod Thomas was a wonderful Christian gentleman. He still is a wonderful Christian gentleman. He was in our church for many, many years and has moved away.

[6:09] He moved away in his retirement. And I'd like to give you the example of Rod. Because before he came to our church, he was Rod.

[6:22] He was the person that he was. And before he came to our church, in the church that he was at previously, he was a deacon. When he came to our church, did he serve as a deacon first?

[6:38] And then we recognized him as an elder. He was still Rod. He still had the same personality traits and characteristics.

[6:51] But we recognized him as an elder. And now, Rod has moved to a church on the Welsh border, in D-side.

[7:02] But it's called Christ Church D-side. And Rod is still Rod. But he is not an elder. He is not a deacon. He is simply a church member. Now, think about that.

[7:15] What it's saying is, a person is a person. A person can be the same person. And in one group of Christians, they fit in as a deacon.

[7:25] In another group of Christians, this same person fits in. And how do they fit in? They fit in as an elder. And in yet another group of Christians, this person fits in.

[7:37] And they're not a deacon nor an elder. They're simply being themselves as a church member. Does that make sense? It's saying, in other words, it's saying that we don't look and say, ah, tick, tick, tick, this person's necessarily a deacon.

[7:54] And what we say is, let's see how everything fits together. How the needs fit together. How the gifts fit together. And we're looking, really, at this other subject, which is in the background all the time, of the body of Christ.

[8:12] And gifts that people have. And you know, I won't go all through the teaching of it again. But we're told that in Christ, we who are many form one body.

[8:26] And there are different parts of the body with different functions. And, you know, in the sort of flexibility and organic nature to that.

[8:44] And sometimes if one person leaves, other people's gifts and ministries expand. And then sometimes somebody comes on board and other people's ministries fit round.

[8:55] And so there's a flexibility there. So I'll just stop at that point and say, does anybody want to comment on that? Can you give us a step?

[9:12] I'm going to make sure. Yeah. Yes, I'm just thinking of your particular example. Is Stuart Olley an elder at Deeside?

[9:26] I don't know. I don't think he is. So you could claim they're kind of retired. I might suggest that, you know, that if gifts are recognized, then maybe they should, you know, any church should be able to make use of them in a sense.

[9:42] But anyway, it's only a thought. Big thing. Yeah, I didn't quite follow that one. Well, I was just thinking you say that Rudd is not an elder or even a deacon at Deeside. But I mean, one hardly can say that Stuart Olley didn't have the gifts of being an elder and a church leader.

[9:58] But I don't think he's an elder at Deeside. So, you know, there is a case saying they've retired. Okay, yeah. So Steve is referring to Stuart Olley, who was a pastor in Liverpool.

[10:10] And in his retirement, he moved to Deeside. And at one time, when the minister in post had problems, Stuart Olley stepped up and became sort of leading elder.

[10:29] So I think it simply says there's flexibility. A gift isn't something that you just have. It's always the same. It always fits in the same. You know, it's like a starter motor in a car.

[10:42] A starter motor in a car is always a starter motor. And that's all you can ever use it for. It's much more flexible than that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Brenda first.

[10:54] As soon as you've got the microphone. I was just going to make a comment that I wouldn't for one moment suggest that God may not equip, God might not equip younger people to be a deacon or an elder.

[11:17] But I think there is also an element in Rod's case and in general terms that as one gets older, physical abilities, mental abilities, stamina, change.

[11:38] And therefore, it is appropriate that the service that we give to our Lord and in the church, not that it necessarily lessens, but it changes.

[11:52] And I think perhaps Rod is a good example of that having in his life, to some extent, actually. Thank you. But that's not the whole picture, obviously.

[12:03] No, that's right. And of course, gifts and abilities can increase as well as somebody grows as a Christian. And Chris was going to say. I think question eight is sort of pertinent to that as well.

[12:20] Phil, we're going on to that one. Because somebody has some gift in word ministry doesn't necessarily equate directly with being an elder, I suggest.

[12:32] And I think the role of elder is more than gift. It has a lot to do with character. And as you've already indicated on this matter of flexibility, it's something to do with being appropriate for the particular occasions that the church is going through.

[12:56] And I think that's a very lovely thing to notice as well, the providential nature of people being called for particular tasks to be done.

[13:08] Yeah. So. Thank you. Did I rightly write that down? Is that you said character at that point? Yeah. God's providence.

[13:26] God providentially. Provident. God working things so that he provides people with the right gifts in the right place at the right time. All right.

[13:38] What I would like us to look at is this one here. Yes. Yes. Could I just ask, do you have to be gifted in word ministry to be an elder?

[13:57] Yes, because it says you've got to be apt to teach. So whether it's pulpit word ministry or whether it's one-to-one word ministry, it is a distinctive thing that an elder has to have that.

[14:10] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Well, yeah, things do mesh together, don't they?

[14:22] Somebody who's wise and capable of giving good advice and good counsel in their sort of character is probably got that from their ability to understand God's word, and they're probably fitted together.

[14:35] Right. Right. I would like us to open our Bibles for a few minutes and to get, perhaps this is a little bit of a subtle thing to do, but to try and get a sense of the Bible's notion of ministry.

[14:59] So this word, this word in Greek, diakonos, diakonos is the noun.

[15:12] That's a servant. What they do is diakonia, that's service. And the verb, to deacon, I'm not even sure if I can spell this one.

[15:29] I think it's something like this. So that's a deacon, a servant. This is what they do. This is their service.

[15:40] And this is the verb, to serve. Now, really, to do it properly, we should look up every single instance of these.

[15:51] And then, I couldn't play any tricks on you, you'd see all of them, and you'd be able to get the proportion, the sense of what way does the Bible use these terms mostly.

[16:01] There are 32 references of this one, 34 references of this one, and 31 references of that one. So that's 90-odd references, and I think it's too much for us to do like this.

[16:19] But you can, if you want to, I can tell you what they are. You can go away at home and look them up and write them all out. But let's just do a fairly random dip into these words, because what I would like to say is, although when we say deacon, we begin to think quite specifically of particular tasks.

[16:45] And we go in the direction of Act 6, waiting at tables. But in fact, the large proportion of uses of the word to deacon, or being a deacon, or service, actually extend quite widely across the range of Christian ministries.

[17:06] So I would like to introduce that thought, and I would like you to get a sense of it from Bible references. So I've got most of the 90 references on my piece of paper, but I'm more or less going to do them at random, because I can't remember which ones are which.

[17:24] So we'll start here, and we'll just pick some out. Notice anything that you want to notice. So this is now the verb to serve.

[17:38] Let's do Mark chapter 1. So this is... This is...

[17:50] No, which one is this? Mark 1, verse 13. Mark, could you read us Mark 1, 12 and 13?

[18:04] At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert for 40 days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.

[18:15] Okay, so which word in there do you think is deaconed? Attended, yes. The angels deaconed Jesus. You need the microphone, actually.

[18:26] So, yeah. So the next one could be Chris, please. So the next one. Mark 1, 31. So he went to her, took her hand, and helped her up.

[18:42] The fever left her, and she began to wait on them. Okay, which word there do you think is to deacon? To wait on. To wait on, yes. So she deaconed. It was Peter's mother-in-law who'd been ill.

[18:54] She got up, and she... When she was up, she started deaconing. She started to serve. Interesting female use of the word there. Let's go on Luke 10, 40.

[19:07] Let's try Luke 10, 40. If you're not happy to read something out, just look uncomfortable, pass the microphone on to somebody else.

[19:23] Luke 10, 40. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations she had to be made.

[19:46] She came to him and asked, Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me. Thank you.

[19:58] The word's in there twice. Anybody spot the word to deacon there? It's the work, actually, one of them. She's left me to do the deaconing by myself.

[20:11] And it's also in there somewhere else, according to my little notes here. Yeah, so the preparations that had to be made is the translation of the one word deaconing.

[20:22] So Martha was distracted by all the deaconing. She came to him and asked, Lord, don't you care that my sister's left me to do all the deaconing by myself? You would have identified with that thought, couldn't you?

[20:33] Why have I been left doing all the washing up? So those are very practical. So that's sort of in the main line of understanding.

[20:43] Let's try Luke 22, 26 and 27.

[20:59] Ah, we recognize this one. Luke 22, 26 and 27. Now, who's going to read this? Okay, David is.

[21:09] Thank you. I can find the verse. Hang on, mine. 22, 26. Luke 22, 26 and 27. Bear with me.

[21:20] Come on, 36. Almost giving you 36 there. 26.

[21:35] Is that but you are not, yes? But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest and the one who rules like the one who serves.

[21:51] For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.

[22:03] Great. Thank you very much. So I think we're in familiar ground there. That's much the same idea as the Mark one, isn't it? Thank you very much. Let's go to Acts.

[22:17] So I'm doing this more or less at random. Acts 12, 25. Acts 12, 25. Yeah. I'm looking to see who's going to be reading this to us.

[22:41] Oh, Tim is. All right. Thank you. When Barnabas and Saul had finished their mission, they returned home from Jerusalem, taking with them John, also called Mark.

[22:52] Thank you very much. Which word there do you think is deaconing? Mission. That's an interesting one, isn't it? Because what had they been doing? Well, they had been deaconing, but what sort of deaconing had they been doing?

[23:09] I think it is evangelism, isn't it? Can we find a reference to that? Yes.

[23:28] Right. Can you give us a reference to that? 11. 30. Yes. Okay. They did this, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.

[23:42] So it wasn't evangelism, actually, was it? It was donkey work. Yeah. Donkey work. Interesting that Barnabas and Saul were doing this.

[23:54] So it shows us we shouldn't make a cast iron case that apostles never deacon. Of course, they did do. In this case, the apostle Paul, Saul as he is here, did do the donkey work.

[24:11] Yeah. So there's flexibility even in the New Testament. What about 21 Acts, 21.19? Do you want to take it from verse 17, Aaron, please?

[24:33] Acts 21 from verse 17. When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly. The next day, Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present.

[24:47] Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. Thank you very much. Which word there is deaconing, do you think? Ministry.

[24:58] Yes. And what ministry was this that they'd been doing? I think this was evangelizing, wasn't it? Am I right?

[25:09] Just check. They'd been traveling around, had they not? Preaching the gospel to the Gentiles.

[25:22] We arrived at Jerusalem. The brothers received us warmly. The next day, Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

[25:36] So I think that's interesting that it's quite, this is evangelism, and that is called deaconing. So it's a ministry of the word, which is called deaconing. Right, let me just go to be random.

[25:48] Let's go into Romans. So let's see. Romans 11, 13. Romans 11, 13.

[26:13] It probably needs to be 13 and 14. Go for it, Angie. 14. Romans 11, 13 and 14.

[26:26] I am talking to you Gentiles, insomuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles. I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

[26:43] Thank you very much. So which word there do you think is the deaconing word? Ministry. And what ministry is he referring to? Oh, preaching. Preaching, yes. So he uses the word deaconing for that.

[26:56] That's ministry. And let's see, where should we go next? 15, 31. Okay, this is Romans 15, 31.

[27:16] Thank you. Thank you. I've got it. Pray that I may be rescued from the unbelievers in Judea and that my service in Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints there.

[27:34] Thank you. Yes. So which one do you think is the word deaconing? Service. And what service do you think he's referring to? Well, it is an apostolic ministry, but which one is it?

[27:52] Which particular? Do you think it is this bringing? Well, is it bringing the word or is it bringing the money? I don't know.

[28:03] Well, the earlier bit is in verse 25. I'm on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the saints from Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints.

[28:14] They were pleased to do it. So it's money. So that's a donkey worker money one. Actually, a lot of money comes in quite a bit. Let's go to 2 Corinthians.

[28:28] 2 Corinthians 3. 2 Corinthians 3.

[28:41] 7, 8 and 9. 2 Corinthians 3. 7, 8 and 9. Now, if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadfastly at the face of Moses because of its glory fading, though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

[29:20] If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness? Thank you very much. So which word or words there do you think is deaconing?

[29:33] Ministry. And it's interesting that he uses that word. He's talking about a ministry of the word, isn't he? He's talking about telling people the gospel.

[29:45] So the ministry that brought death, that was what Moses did. The law, that's right. And he compares it with the ministry. That's the ministry that condemns men, verse 9.

[29:56] How much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness? The donkey work of telling people the gospel. And how much...

[30:07] Sorry, lost my place. Yeah, the ministry that brings righteousness. Well, let's not do too many more. Let's do 2 Timothy 4.

[30:22] 2 Timothy 4, verse 5. 2 Timothy 4, verse 5. But you keep your head in all situations.

[30:41] Endure hardship. Do the work of an evangelist. Discharge all the duties of your ministry. Yeah, thank you very much. So which word do you think there?

[30:52] Ministry, isn't it? Yes. Okay, I think we stop at that point. I think what I'm trying to do is say that the notion of service is quite a wide notion in the Bible.

[31:09] And we shouldn't automatically limit it too narrowly. So, I don't know how convinced you are of that.

[31:21] And I don't know how watertight my thinking is on that. But I'm going to ask that we might spend a little while exploring this. So I think this covers question 3 and question 7.

[31:42] So, in question 7, I've put, is this a helpful thought that we think of deacons as heading up or focusing ministries? Could we, would that be a helpful way of thinking about it?

[31:56] So, and I'd like to link that with with question 3. What jobs or ministries need to be done or could be done?

[32:07] So what I'd like to do is my suggestion for 15 minutes or so is if we break up into small groups and if I give you a piece of paper do you think we could write down the jobs that need to be done and in particular the jobs or areas or ministries that it would, it seems to us would make sense to be so significant or so important or whatever that you think we ought to focus this through a deacon.

[32:49] We ought to have a deacon for or a deacon recognized for this particular ministry. Okay? So, you might say you might say that in our current church life cleaning is so important and is such a need that we really need to have a deacon for that.

[33:14] you might say that, you might not. Okay? Is that a... So... Oh, was it? Okay. So, I'm going to say groups of five or six somebody from the group come and get a piece of paper and a pen and I'm asking you to write down what ministries need to be done.

[33:36] You could actually do a session of full everybody together. So, I'm quite interested, slightly nervous to see what everybody's going to come up with, whether we've all thought completely different things or whether there's actually some sense that as we look out with some spiritual wisdom that the Lord is leading us in the same direction.

[33:56] So, let's see. This is... Whatever you say is not a commitment. We're not going to vote on it this evening. It's just sort of floating ideas at that stage at the moment.

[34:07] So, Mark, do you want to speak on behalf of your group? Oh, microphone. Oh, microphone. Yeah, so, our group, we wrote down jobs that need to be done and then we thought, well, do we actually need a deacon for these jobs?

[34:33] And we put a lot of question marks where people go, no, not really. We put exclamation marks of jobs that are really important that need to be done. Okay. So, like, care and concern, what Roger does, practical care, we thought that was an important...

[34:47] Do it at dictation speed. Sorry. Care and concern. Care and concern. So, that was or wasn't... That was one of the areas we thought definitely there needed to be a person involved in that.

[35:00] Okay. An identifiable named deacon person. So, let me put a... If I put a star next to it instead of an exclamation mark. Also, treasury financial.

[35:12] That was an important one where we thought somebody needed to be responsible for that. And... And secretary, legal responsibilities.

[35:29] That was the third one. We put exclamation marks as in there needed to be a deacon for that. Thank you. And all the other ones we kind of umdenard about, really.

[35:42] But we did say that... I think David gave us some good, insightful comments that we can often put a sort of...

[35:52] That person does this and then we actually... That person does much more than that and we're in danger of just pigeonholing people. Is that right? I don't know.

[36:03] We normally sometimes those people do not. So I only said that for good order in almost all the areas you need someone responsible to make it happen.

[36:17] But when you label someone with a... their key task is looking after A or B just remember that the glory of God in them is sort of much wider than that.

[36:28] It's necessary for good order but it doesn't define someone if you see what I mean. Yep. And of course conversely people may be doing things very valuably but not have any label at all.

[36:39] So yeah. So can we go down your list? Is that as far as you've got? Or can you give us some of the question marky ones? Well basically we...

[36:49] We question marked most of them. So... Kids ministry... Right. Children's ministry... Children's ministry... Ministry...

[37:02] Yeah. Welcoming... Oh, welcoming. Yep. Cleaning...

[37:13] Yep. Sound desk and maintenance... Can I do those as two? Sound desk... And maintenance...

[37:24] Yeah, we had a miss two. What, maintaining the sound or maintaining the... Maintaining the building. Can I put this near cleaning? Mm-hmm. Building.

[37:40] Teas and coffees... Stroke hospitality. All right. Let's put hospitality because that covers more. Hospitality... Teas and coffees...

[37:53] One might think of food in there as well because we did quite a bit of food. Evangelism. Okay. Yep.

[38:09] Communication. What does that mean? Rotors, for example. Right. Also information on the board. I think we talked about that, didn't we? Okay. I put it near here.

[38:20] So rotors... Information... Yep. Administration.

[38:34] Okay. Well, no, we put it on the other... We didn't actually say, did we? That was an important... It was, was it? Okay. It was. It's near the secretary, isn't it?

[38:45] Okay. How you quite define the difference. But do you want me to put an asterisk next to that one as important? Yeah. And special events was one that we didn't feel that was necessary for a deacon.

[39:02] Okay. So we'll just put it down here, special events. What did you have in mind as a special event? Like Chris does, the weekend away. That was the example given.

[39:16] Good thought. Yeah. Great. Thank you very much. Good. Right. Julia. Shall I choose a different colour for you, for yours?

[39:31] If they match up with ones you've already got, I don't need to say them, do I? Or do you want... Go through your list. I'll just put a tick if you're repeating. Okay. So we did a star system.

[39:42] We did a three-star system for top priority. And we did a two-star system for priority and would be great to have. So on our three stars, which is your one stars, we did street ministry and outreach.

[40:01] We did international student ministry. Hold on. That's street ministry. So I'm going to put that one in there. And then you put... An outreach. So, you know, when we have, like, the Christmas things and when we have music evenings and anything else, the outreach is to the community.

[40:20] Okay. Right. And did you put a star with that one? We put three stars for that one. Three stars. Okay. And that's top priority. We put three stars for international student ministry.

[40:35] Right. Is that anywhere else on here? No. I don't think so. So international student ministry. We put three stars for health and safety, building, maintenance, or stroke, stroke, stroke.

[40:51] So, just say that again. Building. Health and safety, stroke, building, stroke, maintenance. You know, the business side of stuff.

[41:04] So, were you including all those, all these? All those in sort of one, under one umbrella, really. Okay. And we did children and youth ministry.

[41:15] We gave that three stars. Children and youth ministry. Okay. Okay.

[41:27] And secretary, admin... Do you use the maintenance? Yeah, it comes under health and safety, building, and maintenance. So, all the business side of things.

[41:38] You know, the practical side of stuff. We did secretary, three stars. Administration, three stars. And treasurer, three stars.

[41:50] Okay. We did IT, audio, and visual, including music, three stars.

[42:04] Okay. So, I'll put this in here. I'll put IT, audio, visual. Including the music. We put that all under one umbrella.

[42:14] Okay. I'm going to put music separately, because I think that might turn up separately. But I've recorded what you've said. Yes? Okay, cool. And we put the young adults, 18 to 30s, as three stars.

[42:27] So, young adult. Did you say 18 to 30? Yeah. Oh, sorry. Does it change each year? Okay.

[42:37] Okay. Okay. Well, we just thought that age group. Because there could be a lot of recreational stuff and things like that. But, you know, for that age group, they need that sort of stuff.

[42:50] And for priority and would be nice to have, we have put an older people, somebody to work with older people, hospitality, a women's ministry, cleaning, care and concern, a recreation ministry.

[43:13] Right, hold on. So, women's ministry, cleaning we'd already got, older people I got, but then you went, what was after? Recreation ministry.

[43:25] What's that then? Sort of like weekends away, you know, things like that. The recreation things in the church. If I put social, would that be about right?

[43:37] Social's cool. Yes, it links with that, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And one-to-one word ministry. You know, or group word ministry, just teaching, especially newcomers and things like that.

[43:53] Bible teaching. So, sort of follow-up and that sort of thing. Yeah. Word ministry, sort of start Bible studies and that's that. Well done.

[44:04] Thank you very much. So, can we have anything from the Russian group? Did you, have you got anything to? The Russians. We are not. Okay.

[44:17] We talked basically similar stuff. A few things we came up with, it's just like, I think, really urgent. We need a person who could take rubbish out of the church on Sunday night, recycling in the bags of us.

[44:30] They're just piling up at the back of the church. But, in general, I remember when I was working in OEM and we had this principle. If we had, like, camps, one camp after another. In one camp, you could be a team leader.

[44:42] In another camp, you could be a cook in a camp. And in another camp, you could be a cleaner in a camp or just doing craft or things. So, it's flexibility. Flexibility. And I think most of us, we got some kind of big gifts.

[44:53] Like, we think, oh, I'm really good in doing this. It's my main, really, thing, and I'm great in this. But I'm sure most of us got the, we're not one-dimensional people. We got lots of different things we could do.

[45:04] And that flexibility, we, like, we're talking about, it's like, it's a family. It's home. If I'm going to toilet, oh, it's, like, no toilet paper there. Why do I need somebody else to change, like, put new role in there?

[45:15] I can do it. If I see cups there, I can do it. You know, it's just, like, if we see concrete needs. And maybe it's not practical one person who's really gifted in that. But you think, I probably could try to do that.

[45:26] Sorry, I'm talking to you. You're getting too excited. No, I'm just saying, when somebody, you think, I can do it. Maybe it's, I'm not very, never did it before, but I can try at least.

[45:38] I have a good attitude. I love to serve God. And God, if it's your will for me to try to do this, I will do it. If it's nobody else, I will step in, and I will take responsibility and try it.

[45:49] Because it's how it works in the church, smaller churches. We may not always have people who would fit all of those things. But each one of us will take something, some responsibility. We can, like, be an answer for those needs.

[46:03] Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, I'll pass over to Ross. But in our group as well, we sort of talked about this issue of the fact that, you know, we don't have to have a label to be responsible and to serve.

[46:20] Thank you, Brenda. Just hold on one second if I can... A bit of feedback. Somewhere I can choose the... I thought somewhere I could choose the colour.

[46:39] Because it would be nice to put another colour. Pen settings. Here we go. Colour. Colour. Red. Right, okay.

[46:53] Yep. Okay. We went for director of music. Okay, so I'll just go for our list.

[47:08] So welfare, which you've got. Which was like the... Sunday school leader. Hang on, where did I put the... I put that down. Care and concern. Yep, okay. I'll put another technique against that.

[47:19] Sunday school leader. Yep. Maintaining the building. Internationals leader. Outreach leader. Okay. Yep.

[47:30] Outreach leader. Cleaning. Yep. Sound system maintenance. Yep. Church secretary. Yep. Church treasurer.

[47:40] Website. Website. Media. Twitter. Facebook. We didn't have that. Nobody else has said that, have they? IT. Okay.

[47:51] Okay. Okay. PR. PR, yeah.

[48:01] PR. Similar. Yep. Image. Church image. Okay. Internal event management.

[48:18] Pick, well, yeah. The rotor master. The master of the rotor.

[48:31] Women's ministry. That's not... Nobody's put that, have they? Yeah. Where, where, where is it? Bottom. Bottom? Bottom. Right. Oh, yes. Teas, coffees, hospitality and food.

[48:47] Teas and coffees there. That's what, tea and sea. Yep. A one-to-one study leader. Yep. And an external event leader, as in someone who might organise trips to Word Alive or New Wine or Cary Family Conference, which could be the recreation ministry.

[49:10] I mean, well, that's different, isn't it? Anyway, yeah, so that's more or less it. Yep. Yeah. Great. Well, they're not hugely different. Well, they're not hugely different, are they? But I think between us, we've covered quite a bit of ground.

[49:23] And I think there's quite a bit of common thinking. And in our group, Brenda very helpfully said, you know, if there's no children, you don't need to appoint somebody with a responsibility for children.

[49:39] If there are children, you do need to appoint somebody. So you look at what's happening. So international students is a big thing. So I think we all said something about that, didn't we?

[49:50] Or to that effect. So I think we're just picking up on what God is doing and saying, this is something, this is something, this is something. So we need at least to notice what's happening.

[50:02] Something maybe on reflection, we think, well, we actually need to appoint somebody in that area. And then we might even have in the back of our mind, actually, somebody's already doing that.

[50:14] And we start thinking about what sort of person it is and so on. Well, look, I think that's quite helpful, actually. I hope you are agreeable to that.

[50:28] I think that's a helpful thing to be thinking. So as long as I don't accidentally press delete everything, we've still got that record on my computer. We can come back to that.

[50:39] Let's stop there. Can we sing something and then pray and then we'll go home. So let's sing.