[0:00] great um hello everyone um as as jake said we're going to speak to matt for a bit for about half an hour or so matt's gonna share something from the bible a verse that's helped him and then there's chance for um q a to ask matt some some questions so as as we go through and and talk to matt and you've got a question maybe write it jot it down and there's a chance uh later to to ask him so hello matt hello andy hello good to see you good to see um just just um just tell tell us how we know each other just fill everyone else in yeah we've known each other for is it is it possible it's 20 years something like that we we've done uh yeah we first met doing uh summer camp we were probably both um sort of christian sort of christian holidays for teenagers um that they can bring their friends on and yeah i remember meeting you one year and you were you're particularly good at table tennis i shouldn't really be saying that because you're probably still quite good and that's slightly annoying but uh you i don't mention it i don't mention you don't mention okay you uh you yeah there was a lot of table tennis um being played and then just over the years these sorts of things when you do them together you just get to know people really quickly so yeah we've been friends since then and uh have had a number of holidays um together and our wives we got married roughly the same time and i we've got we've both got two children of fairly similar age so you've you're not going to be able to shake me off is the is the situation so matt just tell us a bit about your upbringing um yeah sure um i i live in the suburbs now in in bromley i think that's the suburbs isn't it um some people call it kent but uh it's basically suburban london and yeah and i i i grew up in suburban london on the um northwest side of london uh near watford and yeah so i don't know i don't know what people from the suburbs aren't particularly interesting i don't i don't think i'm a particularly interesting person i grew up in the i always wished i'd either lived in the center of the city or up in uh you know out in the country but i grew up in suburban london it was a very um stable and happy upbringing um my mum's australian she had met my dad in in england and my dad was in the navy and so but he'd done most of the traveling by the by that that stage that i was born so we yeah we just grew up in in in watford went to school there a very stable loving family um little very little sort of experience of of suffering or or or death really you know grandparents died in australia but yeah so just uh um that was upbringing older brother older sister younger brother and um yeah then i i did a levels went off to um university i went to um uh yeah university and just loved uh loved playing sport and that was sort of uh that was what i was into i was basically a bit like a dog i'd i'd chase any any ball of any description going you know i'd kick it hit it golf football tennis rugby so yeah sport was um sport or still is in a different form is a big part of my life so that was that was upbringing um and then i moved to bromley as a as a teacher initially i was an english teacher for a few
[4:02] years in fact i taught in um i taught for a year in in allane school in dulwich so i lived on what's the road called is it townley road townley road yeah yeah i lived i lived there um i lived there for a year so i taught two years down in orpington and then one year in allane's as an as an english teacher and then i started working for the church i'm at now as a youth worker and did that can i just say matt um you once came to visit allane's you hadn't been there for about six years right and you walked and you'd only been there yourself for a short amount of time you walked in it was as if the second coming had taken place people swooning at your feet it was remarkable ben joe i thought you were still on your fortnight call ben isn't it time for you to get back there yeah no it's good to it was good to that was ben wasn't it i can't see yeah you're still there are you yeah yeah should we talk about it now no no no so that yeah a year there a happy year there but i then started working for a church and then i i i was ordained in the church of england so i'm ordained church church minister now does that sorry that was a rather long answer no that that fills us in and then and then so just tell us um how how your world changed 2013 eight years ago yeah so that's the title for this evening how to cope when your world changed and and as i as i said i life was a fair it was a very stable life up to the up to my mid 30s um yeah i was i went i did i took a job as a curator in anglican church in the center of london i you know i was finally not in the suburbs i was in the center um living in fulham cycling up to mayfair you know um pretty much past buckingham palace it was it was just life was great life was really good i was single at that stage and you know lots of disposable time and and and it was it was great and then things yeah things change very dramatically um from stable to yeah just just everything was thrown up in in the air um on our on a holiday in 2013 so actually eight years ago um things changed on the 23rd of february so that's two days ago eight eight years ago and uh holidays had always been sort of very active for me games on the beach uh walking the pyrenees um windsurfing in italy those sorts of holidays and um i went to the scottish highlands with you among others so it was you um three other friends was it was it k ted rachel it was the five of us wasn't it we rented a place up there and uh we probably went on the saturday it was a it was a lodge right up in the highlands and we planned to just walk and mountain bike and and stuff like that and so we'd had a few days of doing that is that what you remember we just we we went for hikes didn't we it was brilliant lovely walks around locks really brilliant time it was brilliant um sunny snow on the ground um yeah february half term holiday yeah and and yeah on the wednesday um you'll remember we went for an amazing walk around this beautiful lock lock mick um and uh we'd we'd walked around that it's crystal clear snow on the hills a brilliant day of hiking and we'd come home we'd had dinner and i can i can remember the pretty much the precise time it was three o'clock in the morning because i looked at my my my clock and suddenly you and i were sharing a room that night and suddenly i i woke up with just searing and sudden back pain
[8:06] um it was yeah it was agony um i couldn't i couldn't sleep i think i crept upstairs you might have been aware um and yeah i just i was just crouched on the floor for the rest of that that night just just just in pain and i assumed that it was it was muscular you know although i knew it felt really painful but i thought i'd slipped a disc or something like that we've been carrying a rucksack it was that sort of thing i've not had pain like it but i had no framework for what it was and the next day you you all got up and and i couldn't i couldn't really take take part in what was going on i remember we we went to learn fly fishing didn't we didn't catch a thing didn't catch a thing and you were you were all in your waders yeah um walking up and down i mean it was it was it was great fun and i was sort of i was just standing on the bank and i just had to keep moving because the because of the pain and uh i know yeah i never did how's your fly fishing career taken off since then uh it's not great it's not great okay so but yeah so that uh that day was a write-off and the next couple of days i was just i think we set up a sofa bed in in the living room in the lodge and i just basically lay there for a couple of days and we um yeah we went to see the doctor uh up there and he asked various questions he wondered if it was a perforated lung because i was struggling to breathe mainly because of the pain and we took he gave me strong painkillers um which helped sort of suppress the pain and yeah i don't know do you remember anything i mean those are my memories do you remember anything before we set off for home from that time that was the case wasn't it i was just lying you were just in the sofa bed in the lounge yeah for a couple of days and i remember you going to late night a and e and coming back yeah yeah yeah and so basically i you know it was a friday you know he said if it gets worse you know yeah it was the gp went to not any he said if it gets worse go to a and e and you know it hadn't got worse i guess because of the painkillers and it was friday i was like let's just get back to london i'm sure we'll sort it out when we get there i can see a physio if i need to and so we we set off it was a long journey back on the saturday and we got out at various service stations and it it was when we got to stoke on trent um which um yeah to my shame i i couldn't have put on a map at that point um that when we got out at the service station then um my legs were were were wobbly um and i had to be supported by probably by you or others and to get into the service station and yeah um and um yeah at that point just a few short conversations with with you and the others we decide yeah i mean i was struggling to walk and something wasn't right we something significant wasn't right and so we made the right decision at that point to just to go straight to a and e which was you know half an hour away from the services and we got there and by that stage um i i'm not sure i could even walk all of the way into um a and e and they they brought a wheelchair out to wheel me in and basically over the next four four or five hours as we sat there um my legs basically froze in front of me um i was sitting on on the bed and my legs just sort of froze like like that they were just it was just complete paralysis just just slowly over that time you know i could move my leg a bit and then slowly just just just just stopped and um and medics were were coming and and tapping on my
[12:09] legs and um and sticking things sort of in them and saying can you feel that and increasingly the answer was no i can't actually feel that anymore and yeah we again it's it's the first i've been interviewed like this before but i've not done it with someone who was there so you could even probably fill in things that i can't remember from that because it's pretty hazy but i don't remember i didn't lose it i don't remember panicking i was strangely very very calm about it because it happened so gradually and i didn't know what was going on but i yeah to know any anything you can i don't think i was with you in any actually i think i was ted as a doctor and i think i left we were in two cars anyway weren't we yeah so then they that afternoon they did an mri scan and they they spotted that i had a uh uh what turned out to be a freak abscess um at level t8 i didn't know much about the spine at all but your thoracic spine is this area here and eight is the eighth vertebrae which is about uh there and so it's nothing that i've done and no one's ever um got to the bottom of how how it came about the the questions they asked were things like did you swim in a in a scottish lock with an open wound no do you inject drugs no are you hiv positive no and you know those are the questions that they asked in in the hospital and um they explained that there'd been some pressure put on my spinal cord and that i needed emergency surgery that night and i remember when they talked about that pressure had been put on my spinal cord i remember um thinking this sounds a bit like a very serious trap nerve and what they're going to do is they'll relieve the pressure and then everything will sort of unravel and that that's what that's how i was approaching it i can remember saying to someone in the first day or so please just let work know that i'm just going to need a couple of days a couple of days off uh i mean yeah i didn't know it was a life-changing injury really or that you know it was going to be six months in hospital in in the end but that that was that's what i i guess that's why i was fairly calm i think i can put it down to that and you know i know people were praying as well my family arrived that night some before the operation my parents the next the next morning from london and you know the distance over those months um after that was very hard they were they were you know brilliantly supportive and unbelievably um so shall i keep going and is that yeah keep going because then then they operated yeah so so that's right they operated that night there was a neurosurgeon who was a locum who was available which was you know it was a weekend you know those of you who've been in hospital you know weekends are just the the worst times to be in hospital the teams are much smaller so the fact that there was a surgeon who was on hand able to do it was was amazing um but yeah a couple of scenes then from the next couple of days just really stand out as i guess the the low points of of what turned out to be you know life-changing with you know the first one was um i can remember the scene the next morning my parents had arrived by now and the surgeon ever you know there was in the room and the medical team arrives you know sort of three or four people with clipboards and stethoscopes and my parents were the other side of the room and my brother i think and and they were all gathered around my feet um which had sort of blankets and bandages on them and and they they unraveled my my feet and it was one of those sort of very dramatic moments when everyone's you know you got about eight pairs of eyes just trained on your feet including your own and he said could you you know could you try to just wiggle your toes and you know i tried and there was there was just nothing there was no no you know i was
[16:13] trying everything in my head there's no movement at all and i thought this yeah this can't this can't be happening and i could i could tell from i mean i'm not i'm not sure the wisdom of doing it in front of so many people because it was very dramatic you know we could have done it on the on the quiet when no one was around but i could tell that i could tell that he was hoping for more uh i mean i i was i was too and i could i could tell that he was surprised he had hoped for more and that that was a real sort of kidney punch because i i had thought it will all unravel this operation would do it that was yeah that was a really hard moment for me and and and for friends and everyone and i yeah it dawned on me that you know this is this is serious i think the other scene that stands that stands out was was just i don't know when it was you lose track of things but one of the next few nights with the surgeon who was a lovely lovely man greek man um and he was standing at the foot of the bed it was you know in the mid dark early hours of the night and he was there with his clipboard and and the you know the beeps in hospital those of us who spent time in hospital they're just sort of incessant beeps and and i thought i've i've got to i've got to know what the prognosis is and i've got to ask him and so i said mr sarakas do you think that i'll i'll be able to run again and you know medics are very careful about this and he he said he said there's some he said there's some hope that you'll walk again but there's complexity to what that might look like and i think you need to prepare for significant life life change life's going to be very different for you now and that that that probably marked the lowest the lowest moment i think i was on my own and he left and i was alone in the room and um yeah all i could do was really look up at the ceiling because i was sort of you know just lying on my back and i let out what was a um yeah confused and very raw uh prayer including some some tears and shouting and and um and some words that you won't you won't find in the bible you know but also things like you know why god and where are you god and are you there god and what are you doing which which you might be you know which are in the bible for those of us who aren't used to christian things they are people in the bible say that sort of thing to god in the psalms and god doesn't shut that sort of conversation down so to speak but it was all directed to god at that at that time and um yeah so that that was the story i guess to the the lowest point we could pick up the story in a bit but that those were the that was that first three or four days which were yeah and can i just wind the clock back a bit so how you you work for a church so i'm assuming you you had been a christian at this point yeah yeah yeah like when you've been a christian yeah i know i was i was a christian i'd given talks on on suffering i mean two i think two months before that i'd given a talk on suffering and i'd finished it you know with a very dramatic quote from a lady who uses a wheelchair and yeah i you know just i didn't cross my mind that i'd ever have to use one myself which is how it's turned out so yeah so yeah as i said a loving home a christian home and i'd heard about jesus at church as i as i grew up and i think the way i describe how i became a christian is that at school i was i was mr effort prize um i if if i ever got a prize it it wasn't for for brilliance it was just for you know just trying hard um that you know apart from one time when when they they mixed it up and they announced that i was i was top of the class and this guy called guy winter who was the genius of the class that he had got the effort prize and i was you know i sat down i was very surprised and
[20:16] then there was a tap on the shoulder from one of the teachers saying they got it wrong and they swapped it back anyway that's the closest i'm still recovering from that now yeah but that that was the um yeah so mr effort prize mr try hard and i thought i thought that's what i had to do with god try hard turn over a new leaf be a better version of myself get to heaven um get enough good boy points avoid enough bad boy points and that that was kind of what i was living with and at some point in my in my teenage years i um yeah i heard someone explain the christian good news very clearly i must have heard it from my parents and others but at some point it just it just struck me between the eyes that god wouldn't have bothered to send his his son to die on the cross if trying hard was going to be good enough he just wouldn't have bothered he would have said well you just try hard and you'll be fine but but that that was um that came home to me that that i needed forgiveness um that jesus had provided that forgiveness on the cross that if i turned to him and trusted him i could be forgiven and i could have a fresh start and i could have the hope of eternal life and at that time in my teenage years i i turned and trusted and was was was overjoyed to discover that god would accept me as his as his um forgiven child and um that i was in a relationship and there were bumps along the along the way but i was i was facing all of this as a as a christian as a christian who'd yeah i guess thought a bit about suffering and and um but but wasn't in loads of ways wasn't prepared for it but but in some ways really really was because i i'd had to think about it um a bit so yeah yeah yeah and so you're you're lying in a hospital bed in stoke-on-trent how did those truths that kind of brought you to trust in jesus how did they they kick in at that point or can you remember what you think yeah yeah i mean i i mean i think the very the very first thing was that that truth that that the god of the bible in a sense gives us permission to um for life not the expectation isn't that life is going to be a bed of roses and that it's it's okay to to express um that so the psalms were a great comfort that the in effect god says in the psalms you you may need to use some of these words in life that was a sort of liberating thing whereas if if i just push it the other way if there is no god and you know secular atheism is is all there is if there is no god then this life is just as it is things happen nature to you know red and tooth and claw the strong eat the weak and so the question why what's going on the expectation that things should be different is stripped away it's not it's just a non-question so for a start just finding myself living in a worldview as a christian where it is it's right to say this world is broken and fallen um what's going on i i long for something better than this but the christian worldview plays all of that on side so um and the expectation is that this world is fallen this there is something better to come so that that was a start um maybe the the second thing i might just say that you said i could share a verse at the end might just save that for later which was the the cross of jesus but the the resurrection of jesus i think became more more precious to me than than it ever was i i i'd always since becoming a christian believed that jesus died
[24:19] and and that he didn't stay dead but he rose physically in history but i um i went back to basics in those early weeks in in hospital um and since when i came out in the in the years in the year after i just read a number of books again on the resurrection to i guess just deepen my conviction that that it really happened that um that that that people saw it happen wrote it down early in history were prepared to die for what they said they saw um that it's the best fit explanation you know an accredited fact of history say that um yeah there's a kind of just there's there's a man called john chapman who was a christian minister in australia and he always used he he would say that sometimes he hit a low point in his life and he would say he would get himself to the side of the bed and he'd say um chapo john chapman chapo he'd say you know he'd wonder what why should i get going in the day you know things things are hard and he'd say chapo have you had any new evidence in the last 24 hours that the resurrection didn't happen and you know and and he'd go uh no i haven't i still believe it happened and he'd say well you know get on and keep going and i think i think that's the effect that the resurrection had for me that i there was nothing that persuaded me that the resurrection hadn't happened or hasn't happened since and if you're looking in on this and you wouldn't call yourself a christian i say that's the place to go just read one of the eyewitness accounts of the life of jesus and you know and again for those of us who maybe think we're in a patch where there's not much suffering at the moment we know it will come so it's a good opportunity just to put down our roots and say if this happened then this life isn't everything if this happened then there's a world to come that jesus promises where even if we miss out on things in this life um the best is is yet to come and there is a physical world without without tears death without viruses like coronavirus and without wheelchairs and that's become that became that was just just a massive massive foundation for how i was to face the next eight years there are we can talk about it in a bit there are challenges there are things i still find hard and sad but i i live with more hope than i think i did eight years ago because i'm i guess i'm forced to engage with the reality that that there is a new creation to come and i think about it more and i'm more excited about it than i was before i think so that that has been the big the big thing and that is just a truth from outside of me that has strengthened me so i'm not particularly by nature optimistic character i've you know had struggles with depression and anxiety in the past but this is a truth a person that has strengthened me to face it so that the story here isn't matt's a really optimistic positive guy who's faced sort of disability so i'm going on which that's fine and so you're you're there you're at your lowest point as you said the the doctor said prepare for significant life change yeah and just just tell us what happened next and maybe take us up to our present day yeah so i i spent um i spent two months in that hospital in stoke-on-trent um basically in that in that in the one bed there in that room um people lots of people visiting my parents staying with people that they were put in touch with nearby and when the premier in around the corner that was very hard for them in those sort of winter winter months um and during that time i
[28:24] wasn't particularly well i had pneumonia and so i didn't really get out of bed at all and so when i did when i was well enough to my the leg muscles had wasted away anyway but but um i then was transferred to stoke mandeville which is a hospital near aylesbury about an hour northwest of watford so an hour from where my parents were which is an amazing provision it's a spinal unit a specialist spinal unit not everyone gets to go to a place like that i did i got to go to one which had a real history it was the the home of the paralympics it had a real pedigree of sort of people playing sports so lots of ball sports so now you know i was back to chasing lots of different shaped balls but you know learned to do so in a wheelchair and surrounded by other people who are learning similar things and it you know strangely it wasn't a it wasn't i mean it was a very sad place lots of broken bodies and and and also lots of people in worse situations than me which is one of the things that one says to oneself in those times you know i'm not as bad as that guy over there who can't use his arms and you do you do find yourself saying that and the guys who can't use their arms are saying yeah but at least you know that guy over there has to drive his wheelchair with it using his chin so it was a strange experience it was positive in lots of ways um you know i i picked up very you know wheelchair tennis became the the main sport that i've played since but i was there for another four i was there for four months and um it was a very focused um time oh eventually i was able to um to stand say when when i put enough muscle bulk on it became clear that i i had some muscle function but but my legs still remain partial sensation i can't really feel them so i don't quite know where where i am which means that balance is hard and my muscles are affected so that they're sort of the word is well then spasticity is very high so they're they're very tight they don't they don't move quickly enough to to really walk that that fast so i i use some walking sticks they they help me to learn how to walk again with walking sticks you move through a zimmer frame and then walking sticks and and other things but eventually i was able to to do that and then i then i left in the august so it'd been february to to august really in i guess in a form of lockdown i remember being very scared to go out into the outside world a bit like you know lots of people in covid after lockdown will be a bit scared as we all emerge and i certainly felt that having been institutionalized um and um but yeah i so that was that was that then i i moved back away from central london and down to bromley to restart life and find out part get some part-time work going and um yeah so that's the sort of story of disability i still use a wheelchair i think we've got most of the time oh yeah some yeah we share some pictures this is yeah yeah mode of transport just talk us through these things yeah so what's that top left i was given a hand bike so i cycle using a hand bike so just using my arms lying down um it's great it's good it's good fun it's good fun bottom left is my my trusty um mobility scooter which um maxes out at i think four miles an hour and uh is a bit of a liability in a shopping center but it's quite fun and it's just quite a safe way of getting around so i use that just to that's my commute that's me outside church the building i'm in my daughter having a go on it yeah people do my daughter loves it i i mean kids who are three and four think it's the coolest thing they've ever they've ever seen so uh there we go so that that's good i've got various other things the one in the middle is a bit cooler i guess isn't it that's the sort of wheelchair for basketball and tennis which i play and then uh yeah on the right you can
[32:25] see i i can stand and walk with walking sticks which is really useful and i don't want to take that for granted but the reality is when you've got two walking sticks you can't carry children or rucksacks or bags so it functionally it's not that useful but but it's you know it is useful to get into a restaurant that has steps so i i go to the gym to keep it going and i i walk in the swimming pool to keep it going i don't want to lose it it's a really good thing but uh the wheelchair is is a large part of of life but again you know there are people in the world who don't have any wheelchairs and i've got what three or four there so you know i i there are there are things to be thankful for even alongside the challenges and and god has provided is is part of the the testimony yeah yeah yeah thanks matt and then you mentioned earlier you're married with two yeah there's a parallel story here with with ruth yeah just yeah listen on that yeah so the parallel story is that we we had gone out before my um my injury we met in in central london i mean there's a really much longer story involving all sorts of messes that that i made but when the injury happened we went we went together and that was very hard for her when she heard the news and um yeah ruth would say you know as i left i just checked that she would you know she'd want it to be heard that the god has helped her to cope with the the change um marriage to me with a spinal injury wasn't what she'd what she'd pictured but she's found strength from from god to cope with that new reality and uh yeah it took me a bit of time to to get there but three years after my injury um we got married and um yeah we've had two children grace who's three and a bit and tom who's a couple of months old now so it's been yeah it's been quite a story in that part in god's kindness has ended happily um uh yeah um so that that's ended happily even though alongside that for her and i guess for the children as they grow up there there are some differences and some challenges to life some less good moments but but things that we're genuinely able to be thankful for as well so yeah that's my story of how how how how life has how life has changed in the last eight years yeah great thanks matt and you mentioned earlier you've got a verse to share with us yeah something that's encouraged you i think we've got it on the screen jake's gonna um share it and i'll give you a few minutes matt you can just share us yeah so shall i just read it it's from romans 8 some who are used to the bible would know this others might not it says what then shall we say to these things if god is for us who can be against us he who did not spare his own son but gave him up for us all how will he not also with him graciously give us all things um yeah so that they're great verses that the the these just by way of sort of putting it in some context that these things there refers to all that's come in the chapter before romans 8 which is basically the the present sufferings that we experience in this world as well as the the hope of of the world to come beyond beyond the grave and you know it says what what should we say given all of that in effect and his statement is well if god is for us who can be against us that's his sort of rhetorical question um and so what he's saying is god is god is for us and so nothing ultimately ultimately can be against us and before someone's a christian we we are against god we're we're at war with him um in a general sense you know god and us we're um he's against us we're against him if you
[36:26] could put it that way you know he sends things like um yeah warnings in this world i guess things like covid are warnings to wake us up to a day when when he'll come back to to judge you know when he will ultimately be against us if we're still against him um but but but in a general sense even in spite of that the bible says that he is still in a real sense for this world and certainly when we become a christian we we we really come to know that god is for us we become children and he becomes our our father so his point is that god is god is for us and so nothing or no one can ultimately ultimately be um against us but but i have to but in suffering and you know those watching will know this in different ways that's not that's really not what it feels like um certainly when suffering first comes into our life it it can really feel like god is god is against us he's set his face against us he's he's made life significantly uh harder maybe that's what it's felt like for us in the last in the last year um it can feel like god is against us um you know and particularly when we you know we look at the experiences of those around us as well even if we're not suffering you know i just think of the just if i just think of friends and family from the last few weeks or months you know i can think of unexpected death at a young age multiple repeated miscarriages uh um incurable brain tumor just you know just from close friends and family let alone the unbearable suffering that we that we see and experience around it and and yet so it doesn't feel like god is for us and yet that's what the verse says it says if god is for us who can be against us and then what's the proof then the proof positive that god is for us well that's what the next verse is verse 32 um god we did not spare his own son but gave him up for us all how will he not also graciously give us all things um when i was in hospital a man who i'd never met but who's since become a good friend and sent a postcard out of the blue which simply said i'm really sorry to hear what's happened i'm praying for you i want to i want to encourage you not to judge god by your circumstances which are a very bad guide as to what he's like um i want to encourage you to look at the cross where jesus died for you to to see that that is the proof that god that god loves you and that was very it's very helpful i mean i knew that but it was helpful to just see it written down and that's what this verse is saying really that the the proof positive that that in history that we know that god is is for this world for us for for his people ultimately is that he sent his son so that whatever we think about how god runs his his world um he he took his own medicine he came into this world and i guess just to yeah maybe just to to earth it you know i have two children as i've said and i am i am for them and i'm i'm fiercely protective of them and i i would spare them anything i would hold them back from any suffering i could i could prevent them from enduring and yet the bible says that god could have could have spared his son he could have kept him up in heaven but he chose not to spare him because he he loves the people of this world so much that he he gave his son to to die on the cross under his judgment in our place that we could be that we could be forgiven so he must love us very much that he that he gave us his son and i guess that's that's the place that i've looked to consistently in the last eight years when i've been confused when um when i wonder what's going on that that i know god must
[40:31] be for me because he wouldn't have bothered to give his son if he didn't care about um about us so that andy i think that's that's the place that i go to and that's the place that i that christians go to we you know we live by faith not by sight so it doesn't mean that we are we see we understand just as i get you know as people stood by the cross on good friday on their first good friday it must have been very confusing what is god doing this looks a massive mess and yet the bible tells us that was the that was the worst moment in history that god used for the the best so if god could do that then then that gives me confidence even though i don't understand what he's doing in my life and others lives that even bad things he can he can use for good because he did that with the cross so thanks very much matt for sharing those verses and sharing your story with us