[0:00] movies, they're gorgeous. This is Eric Thurston. Eric Thurston runs the internship program here at St. John's called Artizo, which goes actually throughout Canada. And Eric is Canadian.
[0:13] Where were you born in Canada? The Eden of the East. Hamilton, Ontario. The Eden of the East, mate. Hamilton, Ontario, where you all want to go eventually.
[0:26] But Eric spent some very formative years in Australia, is that right? Yes, that's right. So Eric has the unusual talent of being able to insult you, but in a very polite way.
[0:40] It's how I sure love, Aaron. It's how I sure love, mate. It's a dream we have showing love. And this is Jim Saladin, and for the guests here, Jim is the evening service minister and great guy.
[0:53] Enormous brain. Enormous. No, it's not funny. It's actually a disorder. It's like gigantism of the brain. It's terrible.
[1:05] But he muddles along, he muddles along, and that's good. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you. Very good. Okay, let me just look at my question people to see if they've sorted any questions for us.
[1:18] You still having to think? Oh, we've got a couple of questions here. Oh, hot from the back room. Let's have a little look. Terrible penmanship for a start.
[1:32] Oh, that's actually, no, this is a very good question, actually. Okay, Sam, are you guys ready? Okay, well, this first question is not for you, Eric. Here we go. Are Christian God, Muslim God, and Hebrew God the same?
[1:49] And if I am not, if not, what's the difference? Should we not aggressively try and convert everybody to Christianity? So let's go over, that's a two-parter. Let's just go with the first part.
[2:02] Are they the same gods? Because they do share some heritage there, eh? Do you want to? While there are similarities between the God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, they are not the same, so no.
[2:27] We were talking about yes and no questions while we were in the back room. They are similar in that they are monotheistic.
[2:38] There is one God, and that God is outside of nature, something separate from creation, and is the creator to which all of creation is accountable.
[2:49] That would be the similarities. In terms of differences, the three faiths present radically different pictures of how we are to relate to that God, and at the same time, what the character of that God is.
[3:07] Similarities are real, but the differences are very real as well. The biggest difference is Jesus. In the story of the Bible, and God as it's revealed in the Bible, God becomes one of us, and steps into human creation, and reveals the character of God in human form.
[3:29] And that changes everything. And then, that incarnate God in Christ actually takes the penalty for our sin onto himself. That's the act of supreme mercy.
[3:40] It is the pinnacle of mercy in human history, is this act on the cross, where God takes upon himself what we rightly deserve.
[3:52] And that changes everything as well. So instead of a God that I'm trying to measure up to, we have a God who comes down to us, and who pursues us to the point of taking upon himself what we rightly deserve.
[4:08] So it's a radically different picture. Yeah. Joella, you know, it is about Jesus, like Joella said.
[4:19] And I've talked to a few Muslim people about God, Allah, and it's not really the God of the Old Testament.
[4:31] One of the big things is that Allah within Islam is unknowable. and you're not certain whether you are in favor with Allah or not.
[4:44] And that's actually very tragic, isn't it? Because we know that the true God, the true God of the universe, has sent Christ to us so we can know God through Christ, and so we can be assured that we are saved, and we don't have to spend our whole lives wondering whether I have to do this or that to be saved, because it doesn't depend on us, it depends on Christ.
[5:06] And that is the true, I mean, true God of the universe, it's not about us, it's actually about God, it doesn't depend on us, it depends on God in Jesus Christ, which is fantastic, isn't it? So, even though I know the Muslims would trace the lineage back to Abraham, the actual God that they understand from the Old Testament and certainly from the Quran is very, very different than the Christian God, very, very different.
[5:32] And of course, the Jews would trace their lineage back to Abraham also, but they've missed that God actually has become man and the Messiah has come in Jesus Christ, so we can know God in Jesus.
[5:44] So, yeah, lineage may be the same, but what happens after Abraham is actually drastically different. Yeah, I think the only thing I would add is that there's a closer relationship between the God of the Old Testament and the Christian God than there is between Islam and Christianity, simply because Christianity affirms everything about the God of the Old Testament.
[6:12] Christianity says that the God of the New Testament or the God of the Old Testament is precisely the same as the God of the New Testament. We understand that the God of the Old Testament, God, promised to come to humanity and gather a family for himself from humanity by becoming one of us.
[6:35] And in the Old Testament that is promised and in the New Testament that's fulfilled in Jesus. And so we understand that the New Testament and Jesus, everything we believe about Jesus is not contradictory to the Old Testament, not contradictory at all.
[6:50] but is the completion of the Old Testament. So there's a closer relationship there. We're absolutely right though that what's been said that the crucial thing is what do you think about Jesus? That's really the thing where all the differences come out.
[7:05] Oh, that's quite good. That's good. I think that's a good answer. Yeah. I mean, I think the only thing I'd add to that is that, in terms of like an overall framework for what you're saying, is that the biggest difference between Christianity and all the other major faiths is that all the other major faiths say, you do this and you're okay.
[7:25] You live these truths out and you're okay. And Christianity says, no. Somebody else has lived these truths for you.
[7:35] And because of what they did, you're okay. And that's Jesus. Because of what Jesus did, you're okay. Not because of anything you do yourself. There is nothing you can do to make yourself right with God, which is what the other major faiths are saying.
[7:50] And it's a misconception because I think most people think Christianity is about being a really great person and Jesus will like you because of that and everything's cool.
[8:01] Christianity is almost the opposite of that, actually. Okay, next question. Well done, team. You're on a roll. Let's go with this one. Why are Christians so uptight about sex?
[8:16] Like, like, comma, it can't be as bad as you think. Well, I think this person's a little bit uptight about sex, actually.
[8:31] May I paraphrase this question? Why, well, I think the first part's quite good. I think it goes downhill after that. But why are Christians so uptight about sex? It's like, there's billions of people in the world having sex and outside of marriage and, like, you know, they're not, like, you know, bursting into flames or, you know, they're not having sex then going off killing people straight afterwards because sex is so evil.
[9:00] Do you know what I'm saying? Sure. And so why do Christians hold this up as this really big thing like, oh, stop the sex? For goodness sake. Come on, people.
[9:11] I think you're really, like, enjoying asking that question, aren't you? Grab your Bibles if you can. If you don't want to, that's cool. But if you can grab a Bible, come with me to the very beginning of the Bible.
[9:24] It's going to be easy to find. Well, it is, should be page one, shouldn't it? Yep. Okay. We're actually going to be looking right at the end of chapter two.
[9:44] Genesis, so Genesis chapter two. I'm on page two in the Bible, in the Blackview Bibles. Genesis chapter two, verse 18. Okay, I'll read it for us. And the Lord God said, it is not good that the man should be alone.
[9:55] I will make him a helper fit for him. Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens had brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
[10:07] The man gave names to all the livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up his place with flesh.
[10:21] And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, this at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man.
[10:33] Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. Now, chapter 3, if you've never looked at the Bible, what happens in chapter 3 is the wheels fall off.
[10:49] Right? Man and woman turn their back on God and we call it the fall. It's basically sin enters the world and the creation is marred. Right? But chapters 1 and 2, creation isn't marred.
[11:02] Creation is perfect. Right? What does that tell us? At the end of chapter 2, what is perfect? It's a relationship between a man and a woman. Right? It's actually talking about a marriage relationship here between a man and a woman and that would include sexual relationships.
[11:18] Right? So, it's good. Right? Sex is good. Right? It's actually a good thing. But what happens? Did you get that?
[11:28] Everyone? Okay. Sex is good. It's a good thing between a man and a woman within the bonds of marriage. That's the way God intended it. Men will leave his, men and women will leave their families and create a new family.
[11:39] That is how God builds community, a society, through a family. Right? But what happens in Genesis chapter 3, sin enters the world and, you know one of the worst things about sin?
[11:52] It ruins the good things that God gives to us. Sin ruins friendships. If you lie, you ruin your friendship. Sin ruins relationships between parents because we're not respectful to each other.
[12:07] And sin ruins the gift of sex that God has given to us. Right? So, that's the starting point. Do you want to continue? Sure.
[12:19] Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of things to say about this, but it is very, very important that we point out that, as Eric was saying, the Bible likes sex.
[12:33] It was God's idea. God designed it. It's one of the best gifts God gave humanity. And, when we think about Christianity and having certain standards around sex, I think it's helpful just to, just to remember that when you value something highly, you're going to have standards for it.
[12:56] Things that you don't value very much, you're not going to have a lot of standards for it. So, if we value money a great deal, then we're going to have certain standards of how we use money and things like that.
[13:08] If we value education a lot, we're going to want to have high standards for education and whatnot. So, the high standards that the Bible has around sexuality is not an indication that we think it's bad.
[13:19] It's actually the opposite. It's the fact that we just think it's fantastic. We just think it's this wonderful gift. And, we believe that relationships, that God created humanity, created us, for relationship and for deeply intimate relationships.
[13:37] And, that sexuality is one of the ways that that depth of relationship can be most meaningfully expressed and experienced. and therefore, we're just not willing, the Bible's not willing, to treat that lightly.
[13:53] We want to reserve it for the context where it will, where the gift will be most enjoyed, where it will come to greatest fruition.
[14:04] And, that's why we believe that the Bible teaches a lifelong committed marriage between a man and a woman is precisely the place where the full enjoyment of relational intimacy can come out.
[14:19] Now, there's a lot more to say, but I'm going to pass over. Can I, can I, can I jump in there? Yes. So, what about a committed relationship between two people of the same sex? Yeah. Like, if it's like, not anonymous gay sex or something like, but just two people who say, yes, we want to be committed for the rest of our lives who are the same sex, I mean, what's, why should we be not into that?
[14:43] Why should we sort of say we don't agree with that? Why bother saying that? Why make a stand on that when people don't seem to be getting hurt by it? Hmm. Does somebody else want to jump in there with that one then?
[14:58] Yeah. There's going to be a number of things to say to that. the first thing I think to say is you've, you've got to, within the biblical understanding of things, you've got to, you've got to start with the fact that, that God is the creator.
[15:15] One of the ways to think of that is God is the designer. And, if we believe in a God who is the creator and the designer, one of the things that is a designer, one of the elements of a designer is that a designer understands the design objectives and the, the, the purposes.
[15:40] He understands how he designed the world, how he designed us, and he understands the best way that that is supposed to operate. And, when we read Genesis, when we read the rest of the Bible, we find out that God designed us gendered, designed us male and female, and that God values that's important to God, that that's an important part of our design.
[16:05] Now, I've just said a bunch of things that, that a lot of people could take issue with, but I'm just trying to help you understand what the scriptures teach about all this. And so, God has designed us gendered, and that that is a valuable, valuable thing, and he designed sex to happen within the context of male and female.
[16:27] another element is God has designed that sexuality, in Genesis, we find out that there's two big purposes for sexuality.
[16:42] One is the unitive, to use a big word, but that relational component. Man and woman are to come together and to enjoy that deep and profound intimacy. Another element of it is that God commands in chapter one that children come forth, and God has part, all part of sexuality is included in this blessing that God has bestowed upon it, that this is the way, this deep, this close relational intimacy between a man and a woman, a husband and wife, that God wants to bring forth more humans, more human beings made in his image through that kind of close intimacy.
[17:22] And so you have to understand the entire design that God has intended. You have to understand it as an entire package. And that's why when you look through the rest of scripture, it's very clear that God says, I designed it to be between a man and a woman in lifelong marriage.
[17:46] I think one thing I would say is, I mean, I was asked this question one time riding on a ferry talking to a random person that I met, but he asked me, what do you think sex is for?
[17:58] And I think that's a question worth considering. I mean, that's, Jim has just kind of, he's outlined what the Bible says sex is for. It's for love, it's an act of giving to someone else, and it's for life.
[18:11] It's an act of, it's meant to be something that actually creates life. And it'd be interesting for you to think, I mean, I would just challenge you to think through how do you answer that question?
[18:23] What is sex for? I think a lot of our culture in being rather casual about sex is saying that sex is about my pleasure.
[18:35] But the problem with that is it doesn't work. because it requires that instead of giving to someone else and being in a context in which I can give safely, I'm working at getting.
[18:50] But the problem is sex is a mutual thing. And so if I'm getting, I'm also being taken from. And when we treat sex casually, it it hurts.
[19:04] There's fallout. And I would say that's simply because we're just not using it in the way that it was intended, which is for love and for life. We can go into a different question unless you want.
[19:19] Yeah, I just want to, one last thing about it. Sometimes people have said, oh, for Christians, you know, the worst thing, the unforgivable sin is sex. And it's not, it's actually, God doesn't like us to have sex outside marriage.
[19:36] He also doesn't like us to lie. He doesn't like, he doesn't want us to lie. He doesn't want us to steal. He doesn't want us to have any idol before him. It's not the unforgivable sin. Right? It's just one of many things we are very good at doing against the will of God.
[19:50] Right? That's the way we are. Okay. That was good. Well done. I thought that was, I thought that was good answers. Okay, team, here's a different, on a different tact here.
[20:00] Is there any space for evolution in the Christian faith? Yes. Yes.
[20:21] I would say yes also. Shall we go on to the next question? Okay, well let me push you on that. Since you've been, since you're all scaredy cats, is that, I just, is that still a cool word?
[20:34] A scaredy cat? Is that what kids say in the playground? Wow, you're such a scaredy cat. Apparently so. Okay, so, the, so, any space within, like, I can hear you sort of saying, yes, you know, Galapagos Island, finches, ratty rat, different bigs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[20:52] Micro evolution, and that's great. But what about macro evolution? What about evolution as it's popularly taught and held amongst vast majorities of Western culture?
[21:03] Okay, just, come on, as a starting point, it might be worthwhile thinking what the Bible is and what the Bible isn't. Okay, so some people will turn to the book of Genesis and say, this is a scientific textbook that tells us how the world was created.
[21:23] It's not. It actually is God's revelation of what is important for us to know with respect to our relationship with God in the creation of the world. So, I'm not going to go into the whole debate is, you know, is the seven days literal or not in Genesis?
[21:39] I actually don't think they're literal. I know some people might disagree with me, but I don't think God's trying to tell us it's seven days, you know, sun up, sun down, sun up, sun down.
[21:50] He's trying to tell us bigger things when he talks to us about the seven days of creation. Right? So, the space of creation, I think, could be over a large period of time and not just one week in our thinking.
[22:02] Okay? So. Yeah, one of the things that's important when you read Genesis, which is the first book of the Bible where it talks about God creating the universe, the main thing it's talking about there is the question of who and why and what and little less about how.
[22:27] The important thing there is it's saying that God created everything, that this world that we see here didn't create itself, didn't just happen, but there was design behind it and that there was a, not just a force, but there was a person called God who created the universe and created humanity and we learn why, why, why did God create the world, what was his purpose there and he created the world because he wanted to have relation, at least in part, he wanted to have, he created us, humanity, because he wanted to have relationship with us.
[23:05] We're created in his image, which among many things that that may mean, it includes the fact that we're designed for relationship with one another, we're designed for relationship with him.
[23:17] So it speaks of these deep, deep and profound themes that frankly are always beyond the grasp of pure science, but nevertheless, everybody knows that these are really important questions because they're questions that get to the meat of what it means to be human, what it means, you know, what's the nature of the universe, why are we here, all of those sorts of things.
[23:43] What we find out later on, and we actually found that in our reading, is that Jesus Christ himself was involved in a wonderful, mysterious way.
[23:54] It was through Christ that God created the universe and that it is in Jesus that we enter into that relationship with God that is our basic design.
[24:06] There's more to say there, but... Yeah, I would agree that, I mean, there, there is a, we have a beautiful description in Genesis 1 and 2 of God making the world, but it's these big brush strokes.
[24:24] It doesn't get into the details, and it's poetic language, and by that, I don't mean it's not true. It's, we believe it's profoundly true, but it's not scientific language.
[24:37] It's not a scientific description of how God did that. So it does allow for evolution. Where we would have a problem is with evolutionary theory when it, I would say, steps beyond itself and says, therefore, there can't be a God.
[24:54] Obviously, we have a problem with that. That is beyond the bounds of what can be observed, I would say, from science. Yeah, I think the other big thing I would say is that the Bible is pretty clear.
[25:11] So we're talking about what is Genesis trying to teach us and not teach us, right? And one of the things that it clearly is trying to teach us that within God's plan of creation, right, within God's plan of creation, the highlight is the seventh day, which is rest, but besides that, the highlight is the creation of man and woman in the image of God.
[25:35] That is more important than everything else. I don't know if you realize that. In the eyes of God, you are way more valuable than the mountains. You're way more valuable than the oceans, right? You were created on the sixth day at the end of, at almost a culmination of creation.
[25:50] And some, you know, scientific things say, well, we're just kind of another organic compound which has evolved over time, and I completely disagree with that. Christ hung on the cross to redeem all of creation, and utmost within that is each one of us, to save each one of us.
[26:09] So I think, I think it's a great tragedy when creation scientists denigrate the value of humanity, and the Bible doesn't do that at all, right? It doesn't do that at all.
[26:20] That's why Christ died, right? Now, you guys have talked a bit about here saying God's, God's ordering of stuff, God's plan, righty, righty, righty. And so it relates very well to this question here, premising it by saying if God does have a plan and God orders everything and God is in charge of everything, then this person here very, very rightfully asks the question, if God is in charge, why does he allow children to be abused and kids to die of starvation?
[26:47] great question.
[27:04] There's probably no other area with the problem of human suffering, especially that suffering to children, there's no other area that for me leaves me with that sense of, at some level, I don't know.
[27:18] So I'm going to put that out there right away. I trust in the goodness of God and I trust in the power of God, but there are things that when I look at them, I have no complete answer, and so I just want to be honest about that.
[27:35] I don't think I'm alone in that. All of that said, I think there are some things that help us understand God's heart and how God relates to a world where evil, evil things happen.
[27:55] One is that God is love, and one of the mysteries of love is that it allows freedom. If it's, if I have, well, I do have children, so I can use this example.
[28:10] If I had children. Oh, yeah, I do. Yeah. Three that look like the children of the corn. Beautiful, but, but, yeah, okay.
[28:28] If I, I don't have this power, but if I had the power to make it so that they would love me, they would not love me. If it's compulsory, it's not love.
[28:42] And, and the Bible tells us very clearly that God is love, that that is the motivation behind creation. And so, in creating humanity, God has created something that can love him, but that requires that we are also free to hate him.
[29:01] There's the freedom to do otherwise. And, um, that freedom has led to, um, all kinds of things entering the earth.
[29:12] I mean, the main thing is that initially we have this thing called the fall, which is this event where, um, where we would say sin entered the world, which is, um, rebellion against God.
[29:23] and, um, and that had fallout in all kinds of ways, both in our relationship to each other, our relationship with creation, and, um, obviously our relationship with God.
[29:35] And that carries over. Um, that affects, um, children and nations. Um, it affects our interpersonal relationships. I mean, we all know that we've said things we regret in the last couple days, um, that we're hurtful to someone else.
[29:50] So on the very micro level, we see this at play, but we also see it in the most heinous ways as well, from child trafficking to genocide. Yeah, this is, uh, this is a really, this is a hard question.
[30:07] And I, as Joella has said, uh, I don't think, well, I know we don't, in this lifetime, until we are in heaven, we do not know the complete answer to this question.
[30:18] I'm going to ask you to turn your Bibles in a moment to a gospel, but before we do that, I'm going to read for us from 1 Corinthians. Um, 1 Corinthians, uh, chapter 13, uh, verse 11.
[30:32] When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face.
[30:44] Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. Now that's Paul the Apostle saying, we don't understand everything about God right now in this life, but we do understand a lot about him, what he wants us to know.
[31:02] And the question about, uh, why is there, uh, bad things happening in a world when God is sovereign, uh, some of the two possibilities people think of, well, maybe God isn't absolutely sovereign, uh, and maybe God, or maybe God isn't absolutely loving.
[31:15] All right. Let's go to the Gospels. Um, hold those two questions in your mind. Uh, I want us to look at, uh, if we can, at, uh, John chapter 11.
[31:31] Okay. Prize to the first person that can find it. Give us, uh, yell out the page number. 897. 897. Okay. Well, what does Jim get? He gets to answer this question next.
[31:45] Okay. So, this is a question about the character of God, and we see the character of God like nowhere else in the Bible than in Jesus Christ.
[31:58] That is the perfect revelation of God to us at this time in this place. And as we read through the Gospels, the question about whether Jesus is sovereign, uh, over all things is obvious, right?
[32:10] He, he, he calms the storm. Um, he, he heals people. Um, and, and one of the things as we read the Gospels is to show us that Jesus is sovereign just like God is sovereign over all creation, over all things.
[32:23] Okay. So, is Jesus sovereign? Yes, because he is God. Is Jesus loving? Because he is God. And, we only have to point to the end of the Gospels and Christ dying on the cross for us, which is the greatest expression of God's love for us.
[32:40] That while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. While we were still enemies of God, Christ died for us. And the two things are held in tension in the Gospels just like they are in the rest of the Bible.
[32:51] So, I'm going to read, uh, a passage here from John chapter 11. Uh, it's the, uh, it's about, uh, Lazarus. Lazarus dying. I don't know if you've read through this. I know a lot of you have read through this before, but there's actually something really, really odd that happens in this account.
[33:03] Okay? So hopefully this will make sense and not confuse everybody more. There we go. Uh, I'm going to start. Uh, so, uh, a guy named Lazarus has died.
[33:14] He's got two sisters. Their, their, their names are Martha and Mary, and they're, they're distraught because their brother has died. Jesus knows Lazarus, so he's friends with Lazarus. Okay, so I'll, um, I'll start reading from verse 32.
[33:27] So I'm on page 898, chapter 11, verse 32. Okay, now when Mary came to where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet, saying to him, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
[33:43] When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in his spirit and greatly troubled. And he said, where have you laid him?
[33:54] And they said to him, Lord, come and see. And Jesus wept. So the Jews said, see how he loved him. But some of them said, could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man also have kept this man from dying?
[34:07] Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. And Jesus said, take away the stone. Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, Lord, if by this time there will be an order, for he has been dead four days.
[34:21] Jesus said to her, did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God? So he took away the stone, and Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, Father, I thank you that you have heard me.
[34:32] I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around that they may believe that you sent me. When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, Lazarus, come out. The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips and his face wrapped with a cloth.
[34:48] And Jesus said to him, unbind him and let him go. He's alive. He was dead, and he's alive. Now, here's my question. Why did Jesus cry? It tells us Jesus wept.
[35:03] He's sovereign. He knew he could bring him back from the dead, and he still weeps. Right? And I think he's weeping because he understands that death is horrible and terrible.
[35:15] And the evil in the world that Aaron's talking about is horrible and evil. And at the same time, it's part of the reality that we live in right now. And Jesus weeps because Lazarus is his friend and he's dead and he's weeping because Martha and Mary are weeping and then he brings him back from the dead.
[35:33] He's loving and sovereign at the same time. Right? And he's actually pointing towards a greater reality in the future. There will be a time where there is no suffering. There is no death. And what does he say to him? He says, you're going to see the glory of God when he comes back from the dead.
[35:47] So in a way, he shouldn't have wept, but I think he's weeping because he understands the brokenness of the world that we live in right now, even though there's a greater future in front of us. Right?
[35:58] So. Right. I just, I just, do you want to have a prayer or I'll move on? Move on. That's fine.
[36:08] Is that alright? Thank you, Aaron. Okay. Last question, I think. And it relates to the Bible because you have been referencing the Bible as a source of authority and truth and yet people would say under close examination things don't add up in the Bible.
[36:28] There are inconsistencies and somebody has mentioned a couple of inconsistencies here. For example, there are two accounts of Judas. You know Judas who betrayed Jesus. Two different accounts.
[36:39] Jesus on the cross with the thieves. Two different versions of what happened there. If this is truth and we preach it like it's truth and we read specific sentences out and explain them, how can there be two different versions of what happened and there that still be the truth?
[36:57] So it's a question about trusting the Bible, I guess. Yeah. What do you guys, what do you guys think? And we're running at a time here so we're looking for kind of compact answers. All right. Here's a go at a compact answer.
[37:10] One of the things that's been helpful to me from time to time is that as I understand it, I'm not a law enforcement professional, but as I understand it, one of the things when investigators are investing different, or interrogating different witnesses of a crime, my understanding is that if their accounts of things are too precisely identical, that it's an indication that they're in cahoots with each other.
[37:43] That different, when, if you get different people independently telling a similar, the same, their account of the same, the same events, they will tell the story differently based on their different perceptions of it.
[37:56] And that's actually it's not something that undermines the validity of their, of the witnesses. It actually reinforces the validity of the witnesses. And I think what you get when you come to the Gospels is there are little details that seem on the surface to be contradictory, but one of the things that's very clear, and I encourage you to read the Gospels, read all of them, and ask yourself the question, is Jesus, the same Jesus in each Gospel.
[38:28] And I think you'll find that what you'll see is that there's a composite perspective, a composite view of Jesus that comes forward, and he's a remarkably compelling person.
[38:43] Part of the reason I'm a Christian is because Jesus is just so compelling, and I encourage you, read the Gospels and consider who Jesus is, because all the rest of the questions will flow from that one.
[38:53] You guys happy? I think that's a pretty, I think it's a pretty good answer, actually. Okay, team, thank you, I release you from your duties.
[39:04] You've done very well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.