True Unity in the Anglican Communion

[0:00] Father, we thank you for your church, and we thank you for the unity that you bring, because Jesus suffered, died, rose, and ascended to heaven. And Father, we pray that as we think about your church and the unity of your church, that you will lead us and guide us, strengthen our church because of our time together, and give us the confidence and trust in Jesus, who is our Lord, and who is the creator of our church.

[0:28] In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Okay, so I suspect something here. How many people were at, in April, I gave a talk on Anglican Unity.

[0:41] How many were there? Okay, so about half of you were not. So what happened basically is I ran out of time last time, so I said I'd come back. We found there was so much more that we wanted to hear.

[0:56] That's right, that's right. So I'm continuing something that I started before, and there will be a few things that I will go back to, just to bring you on board with, and I suspected that.

[1:09] So I put a couple of slides in here, a number of them that were there last time. So I just want to give a brief overview about the instruments of unity, and I want to talk a little bit about John 17, and then I'll go into things that I haven't talked that much about.

[1:30] Okay, so last time I talked, I talked about how John 17 was Jesus' prayer for his church, and how really all true unity comes out of that prayer that Jesus prayed.

[1:45] And there's three things that he prays. He prays that the Father would glorify him, would glorify Jesus. He prays that the Father would sanctify his apostles in the truth.

[1:56] And this is critical for our time now, because unity comes because of this truth, the truth of Jesus, the truth of the gospel that transforms people, that actually brings about the kingdom of God into this world, in the midst of a suffering, hurting world.

[2:17] And he prays then that his church may be one so that the world may believe. Those are basically the prayers he prayed. Now, the thing that I want to point out here is that all three requests that Jesus made were answered by his death and his resurrection and his ascension.

[2:40] And that might sound like an odd thing to say, because often you hear teaching that says we need to work so that the church may be one.

[2:51] We've got to create a united church. But that prayer says that the foundation of the church is that it is one, that it is holy, that it is Catholic, and that it is apostolic.

[3:08] Catholic meaning it's holding to the whole of the apostles' teaching, and that it is apostolic. It is the apostles' teaching. That's what makes the church one. And when Jesus rose from the dead, that's the gospel.

[3:21] That is the basis of the unity. And he actually makes all people one in him who have that truth and who have that faith, no matter what denomination they are in or what culture they are in, what situation they find themselves in.

[3:39] They are united because of what Jesus has done on the cross and his resurrection and ascension. So we cannot assume, which often is, is that his prayer was not fulfilled.

[3:53] So, in fact, the demonstration of the gospel and, you know, showing what God does in the lives of people who hold to the name of Jesus is a major theme of the New Testament.

[4:08] It talks about that unity that is there. And it actually is something that is present in the midst of very, and we're hearing about these churches in Revelation, very troubled churches in lots of ways.

[4:19] But there is a unity in Jesus himself. And that's what brings us to the fact that there is not only a spiritual reality, but there's a practical obligation that we have to maintain the unity of the gospel.

[4:35] You know, this is what Ephesians says. Maintain the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace. There is one body, one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call.

[4:46] One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and in all. So you see how all that unity is located in Jesus, in the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

[5:01] Okay, so that's just a brief overview. And if you take anything away from this, just to say that Jesus' prayer was answered by his powerful resurrection and ascension.

[5:14] So that's where we're going to start from. Now, the Anglican Church, now we're jumping to the Anglican Church, has understood that it is important to maintain that unity that comes from the gospel of Jesus.

[5:30] And so what it has done is it has set up four instruments of unity. One is the Archbishop of Canterbury.

[5:43] And the Archbishop of Canterbury is somebody who, in whom, he really represents the unity of the Anglican Church. He represents the Anglican Church to other denominations and other religions as well.

[5:57] He calls meetings that are very, very important. And there is a moral and spiritual authority, although there is not any kind of jurisdiction or legal canonical authority, in the sense that what he says the different provinces have to do.

[6:15] And I should tell you that there are about 37 provinces. They're all pretty autonomous, but they work together in cooperation. That's the idea, anyway.

[6:28] So there's the Archbishop of Canterbury. There's the Primates Meeting. There's the Anglican Consultative Council. And there's Lambeth Conference. And I'm going to go over each one very briefly.

[6:39] And I just want to also say that here are the 37 provinces that you see here. And, you know, I'll briefly say that it's a bit of a mishmash.

[6:54] Because, for instance, you'll see the United States here in yellow. And that includes part of South America. And it includes Honduras, for instance.

[7:05] That's part of that province. The green is a number of countries. That include Argentina, Chile. And then Brazil is one province. This all is one province of Southern Africa.

[7:18] This is called Central Africa here. These countries are separate provinces of Congo and Tanzania and Kenya, for instance. This purple here, that's all one province.

[7:32] So that's the province of Jerusalem in the Middle East. And I'll tell you what one diocese is. It's not quite as big as our diocese, by the way, of Anak. But this is all one diocese right here.

[7:43] So the Horn of Africa, Egypt and North Africa. That's one province. Not many Christians in that area. Not many Anglicans. And that's based in Cairo.

[7:54] And Bishop Menir is somebody I know, actually, friends with. He runs that diocese from Cairo. But anyway, I just wanted to give you a sense of what this is about.

[8:06] This is all one province here, too. It includes Nepal. And we had a bishop come out. I don't remember him from Singapore. He gave greetings to the church in June. And that's his area.

[8:17] So he's quite involved in the church planning that's going on there, as well as over here in Thailand. But they're based down here in Singapore. It's obviously a very far-flung communion.

[8:30] And that's largely thanks to the British Empire. But it's also one of the strengths of the Anglican Communion. It is very diverse. It really encompasses all kinds of different cultures and languages.

[8:46] And it is a beautiful thing when they all get together. The delegates from these various provinces get together. And you see, really, the face of the world in the Anglican Communion.

[9:03] Okay, so that's what we're dealing with in the four instruments of unity. They're working at how do we maintain the unity that Jesus gives in that situation there.

[9:18] So are there any questions about how that sort of set up the Anglican Communion? Yeah. I have a question about the U.S. Is that actually Anglican or is it Episcopal?

[9:31] It's called the Episcopal Church. And the reason it is, it goes back to the Revolutionary War. And, you know, there weren't very good relationships with England at that time. So the first bishops were consecrated by the Scottish Church, which is called the Episcopal Church.

[9:49] And that was actually in a cathedral in Aberdeen, Scotland, where I've been. But that's where they got the name Episcopal from, was from the Scottish Church, which is called that. Scottish Anglican Church. I was looking at something online about the communion.

[10:03] And, you know, someone was speaking, I think, at our churches. They don't have any exact interpretation of Scripture in the Anglican communion. But from a United Church of Canada background, they do something similar.

[10:15] They don't have any exact, definite interpretation of Scripture. Because you have Methodists, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Evangelical brethren. Here you have some of the communions here. The provinces are conservative.

[10:26] Some are more liberal. I noticed a bit about it. The United Church is like a very mini version of the Anglican communion, in a way. Well, it's interesting. I mean, this is church history.

[10:37] But, of course, the Methodist movement came out of the Church of England. And so you're going to see some similarities. Any other questions about sort of the structure of provinces?

[10:48] Yeah. The blue shade, Dan. Yeah. I can't read a word before. Churches. Number one. Autonomous. Autonomous churches. Autonomous. Autonomous. Yeah. Yeah.

[11:01] So all they're saying is that those... Yeah, I don't know why they put it that way. Because what they're saying is that each of those is an autonomous province. So Australia and New Guinea are together as one.

[11:14] This whole area, the Anglican Church here, is all together in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and so forth. It's under one province with a number of dioceses within it.

[11:26] But, yeah, I found that a bit confusing, too. But it's all I'm saying is that those are a distinct area. And what are the gray areas, Dan?

[11:37] Well, there's no province of an Anglican province in those areas. They're not under... And, of course, China's a big one, and so is Afghanistan. And that's a very good question.

[11:48] Like with Afghanistan, what happens is that the diocese of Lahore, which is part of Pakistan, will take under its wing any Anglicans that are over there.

[12:00] But they're not a diocese or anything. And they're very... There's just so few Anglicans there. And so they don't have a structure like that. Yeah. I should just say a quick thing here, too.

[12:15] Like the diocese here... Sorry, here, Uganda. Uganda has 10 million Anglicans in church on a Sunday. There are 75 to 85 million Anglicans in the world.

[12:28] Nigeria has 20 million Anglicans. So, I mean, in those two countries, you have, you know, well over a third of all the Anglicans in the world worshiping on a Sunday.

[12:42] Kenya now has 5 million. It had 1 million 20 years ago. It has 5 million Anglicans. So, it's not evenly distributed.

[12:53] This is a very important thing for us to think about when we think about how the church is structured and the kind of how decisions are made in the Anglican communion. Often the decisions made do not reflect the numbers of people in different parts of the world.

[13:09] Anglicans in different parts of the world. Yeah, and so little places like, you know, Rwanda or Burundi would have far more Anglicans than all of the United States going to church on a Sunday.

[13:25] This is how... And yet, you know, there's lots of money coming out of the United States to prop up a lot of the structures. Yeah. How many Anglicans in Canada? Going to church on a Sunday?

[13:37] See, this is the problem. Many people will call themselves Anglican because their parents were. So, if you look at the numbers, it'll say something like close to between 800,000 and a million.

[13:50] You'll see that range. In actual fact, there are about 100,000 that go to church on a Sunday in the Anglican Church of Canada.

[14:00] In the United States, it'll say 2.5 million. And there are probably around a million that are going to, at the most.

[14:14] No, no, sorry. No, sorry. Canada's 100,000. These guys are down to 800,000 now. The United States is. Going to church? Yeah. So, that's average Sunday attendance. More than we do.

[14:25] More than Canada, yeah. So, about 100,000 Canada. Remember that the United States has 10 times as many people living there. Oh. Okay, so, yeah.

[14:36] Just a comment. The evangelical Anglicans are starting to revive the word Anglican to distinguish themselves from the Episcopalians.

[14:46] Yes. Or off the rails. Yes. Yeah, I've been at one of these churches that you would know. It's in Hopkins. Yes. A very thriving church there. But that's right. I mean, that's how it's a very convenient way for them to distinguish.

[15:00] And it works wonderfully because these churches are in communion with the wider church, which is called the Anglican Communion. So, it makes sense for them to call themselves Anglican.

[15:11] There's not confusion. There's the Episcopalians and there's the Anglicans. Okay? Yeah. Can you talk about these numbers? What percent of these would you say are evangelical, orthodox, or orthodox in their teaching?

[15:27] The best guess is around 85 to 90 percent would be. And the interesting thing about the Anglican Church is that there's a lot of, there's an Anglo-Catholic section, too, that is also evangelical, orthodox.

[15:45] Which is confusing. So, if you go to Malawi, for instance, it's a very high church, but you will hear the gospel of salvation preached and a call for conversion continually.

[15:56] And lots of people coming to faith. So, you have all of this within the communion. And I would say, yes, 85 to 90 percent would be very much holding to classical Anglicanism, would be evangelical in the sense of a real commitment to the gospel.

[16:12] Now, you're talking worldwide. Worldwide. So, that's weighted by some of those Anglicans. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm sorry, there's African countries. That's right. What would you say in Canada would be?

[16:24] Oh, that's different. Yeah. That's a good question. In Canada, and I'm going to talk about this at the end of my talk, too.

[16:34] But in Canada, in the Anglican Church of Canada, which I think you're asking, because in Anic, I would say it's pretty close to 100 percent. If you're in Anic, you probably have a pretty strong grasp of the gospel because you've made some sacrifices to be able to be there.

[16:50] In Anglican Church of Canada, it's really hard to say. You know, there are some very good bishops there. And the problem is, what Jesus says, is that they are sheep without a shepherd.

[17:04] And so, you have people that are very open to the gospel, and they have leaders that are not leading them to Christ. And they're not preaching the gospel. But there were seven bishops, for instance, out of 39 who very strongly opposed this decision by the Anglican Synod to go ahead with same-sex marriages, change the canon of the church.

[17:29] And so, they spoke up very strongly against it. Well, you know, that's about, that's a little less than a quarter. And I, you know, I would say that that may be representative, that there's about 25 to 35 percent that are pretty evangelical in the Anglican Church of Canada.

[17:48] Yeah, go ahead. Can I ask a follow-up question? Why would they stay there rather than to? I think you should call them and ask them because... I've had a conversation with one bishop, lengthy, and who is just wonderful.

[18:07] I mean, he would feel completely at home in Anik. He is just a godly man and loves the gospel. Tremendous preacher. Why are you staying? And, you know, the line generally is that they are staying there in the hopes that they will be able to be a remnant that would reform the church.

[18:25] Now, I've heard this for 35 years. And I know it's been going... And you see that the trend go in the opposite way. And they even... This was one of the bishops who signed... You know, seven bishops who signed against this move, this motion.

[18:41] They are starting to realize that they may be forced out. But right now, yes, they are staying there because of that. Now, to be honest, to be frank, a number of bishops or clergy are probably staying because there's money involved.

[19:01] And what I mean by that is that dioceses that are often quite conservative in the north and so forth are heavily subsidized by the national church.

[19:11] And they also are fearful of the division that it brings, the difficulty that you go through. There's a real vulnerability. I mean, clergy have lost pensions. They've lost homes.

[19:22] There's, you know, David Short lost a home going through this. And so it's a difficult thing to contemplate. And you want to try to hold things together. And things seem okay locally.

[19:33] So there's a number of reasons that go into it. And I do sympathize to it. But also know that if you do sort of stand on the fence, you just see every time that there is destruction.

[19:47] There's a bleed of the church out. It really doesn't serve the cause of the gospel. Yeah. Yes, John. I had a quick comment. They do lose their pension once they leave.

[19:58] Not necessarily, though. In the U.S. anyway. Yeah. I was into one of those new Anglican churches in the U.S. Yeah. Yeah, I was involved in that. Yeah. Yeah, especially in the U.S.

[20:10] And it got quite... John. Let's see you, John. You can ask questions, by the way. Peter will not take you out. Okay.

[20:25] Yes, Martin. So I came from England. Yeah. Kind of 25 years ago. So when I was a student in England in the 70s, the evangelicals were perhaps about a third of the Church of England.

[20:36] Mm-hmm. And felt themselves, you know, to be, well, they were a minor... A substantial minority. Yeah. And my impression in England is, you know, although there have been difficulties, nevertheless, the evangelical part of the Church of England has grown suburbly in the period since then, as a proportion of all.

[20:53] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So why has the whole scene pattern really been different? Is there any explanation for you after that? Yeah, but it might be kind of long.

[21:04] I mean, the very short answer is, it's not as good as you think in England. Okay. Right now. But also, England had a number of theological colleges that stayed true to the Gospel.

[21:24] I mean, a lot of the problem had to do with theological colleges in North America. England had a strong tradition of evangelicals and Orthodox Anglo-Catholics that go back hundreds of years, too.

[21:37] It was a stronger movement than it was in the United States. And so liberalism did, and secularism has really affected the Church of England, but they had a strong enough tradition and leadership that has allowed it to continue within that.

[21:56] Mm-hmm. But there's lots of, you know, I would boil it down to theological colleges. I would boil it down to teaching and leaders. People like Jim Packer had a tremendous effect on the Church of England.

[22:10] And this is all, and they were organized, having conferences and really supporting one another in the cause of the Gospel. So that was not nearly as strong in North America.

[22:24] Yeah. Yeah. Am I right in thinking that, I remember Dr. Packer saying one time that bishops in, certainly in Canada, but perhaps in the States, had more power than they did in England.

[22:41] Yeah. Like that they were, because they were coming us to the Wild West, the colonies, they were given more powers, and then that was never retrenched.

[22:54] And so they were doing things that they would never do in England. Yeah. I think that's right. And the other thing I would add to that, just historically, is that the Oxford movement, the Anglo-Catholic movement, was stronger in the United States.

[23:09] It was quite influential. And with that Anglo-Catholicism came a much stronger sense of the role of the bishop, more Roman Catholic. And when a Roman Catholic bishop says jump, you say, how high, if you're a priest.

[23:22] So I think that may have had an impact as well. But I think, yes, it's also because you're in the Wild West and you need to maintain a strong central government. Okay, so we're going to move on because I'll probably answer some of the questions as we go along, and we'll have time for questions afterward.

[23:43] So I talked briefly about the Archbishop of Canterbury. He's the focus for unity for those three other instruments. And he calls the Lambeth Conference, which we're going to talk about in a minute, which happens supposedly every 10 years.

[23:55] It's not anymore. He chairs what's called the Primate Meeting, which I mentioned. And he's the president of that other instrument of unity, which is the Consultative Council.

[24:07] So the Primates Meeting is every single one of those provinces that I said has a – it's not a monkey. It's a primate. It's somebody who is – it is somebody who is an archbishop who is in charge of a number of dioceses.

[24:22] And there's 37 of those. And they have started meeting in 1978 as an opportunity for leisurely thought, prayer, and deep consultation.

[24:33] And they've met regularly ever since. So every few years they will meet in between Lambeth. And the importance of those meetings has really increased since 2003, which is when the crisis in the communion, the presenting issue was about same-sex blessings and sexual morality, which revealed the understanding of Scripture, which was very, very different for part of the church, for the different parts of the church.

[25:03] So this crisis brought about a much – they took a much greater role, the primates, than they had to. And then this last – in January, there was a meeting of the primates where they agreed to sanction the Episcopal Church of the United States.

[25:17] And that was a big move to make that move. And it's been very controversial since. So the structure of the church, especially the liberals, are saying they don't have the power to do that.

[25:30] What has happened since that is that that sanction has not been enforced. Okay? What's the sanction mean? The sanction was that the Episcopal Church could not represent – could not send any representatives to any of the ecumenical gatherings.

[25:47] They couldn't represent the Anglican Communion, and they couldn't come to these instruments of unity either. So – and that's already gone out of the book. So – there's also something called a Lambeth Conference.

[25:59] It takes place every 10 years. All the bishops in the Anglican Communion get together. It has a collaborative and consultative function. It's not a governing body. I said before we're not that centrally governed.

[26:10] It's because we're an association of autonomous national and regional churches. It expresses the mind of the communion on issues of the day. And it very definitively and wonderfully addressed the issue of same-sex blessings and morality in a very loving pastoral way that was true to Scripture and the Gospel in 1998.

[26:34] And that has been ignored in parts of the communion. And this was just a little detail. That first met in 1867 because the Canadians wanted it. It happens every 10 years.

[26:47] Okay, and the last instrument is the Anglican Consultative Council. And that has lay people, clergy, and bishops from all the provinces. And they are, you know, cooperating, trying to get the work of the churches to cooperate because through information and communication, it advises on the organization of the communion.

[27:09] It develops policies. It's an advisory council. It doesn't make decisions for what we believe and so forth. Okay, so those are the four instruments.

[27:21] Now, I want to say that these instruments have broken down. And I want to read you something, which is from a communique that was just released from Cairo.

[27:34] And I'm going to get to this as we go along. But I just want you to hear this sentence. He says that this communique says this. It was just put out a week ago.

[27:45] It says, Well, you can't put it much more clearly than that.

[28:21] Those four instruments of unity that I mentioned have really broken down and are really ineffective.

[28:35] So the primates meet, and they've been the clearest on things. And what they decide is not acted upon. And each of these have not been able to address these serious issues that are taking place.

[28:51] And the wonderful thing is that it is clear that the problem is, what they lay out here, is that they have been clear about what actually unites us, which is the gospel.

[29:06] And so there's the problem. So what's the solution? It's amazing. It's amazing the timing.

[29:24] Gafcon 2008 met with bishops from across the Anglican Communion. And it was a movement for unity, as that says. It was a movement to affirm the truth of who Jesus is.

[29:37] And to affirm the commitment that the church has to it, and to repent of ways that we have not held to that truth. And it was a joyful gathering in Jerusalem, a very sober gathering as well in lots of ways, because they realized what was at stake.

[29:55] But there was a great deal of hope that came out of that gathering. And certainly for us at St. John's, it was a tremendously hopeful thing for us, because that's right when we were going through having to leave the Anglican Church of Canada.

[30:09] And realizing that we were united with the vast majority of Anglicanism, of Anglicans throughout the world, meant everything for us.

[30:21] This is one of the blessings of not being a congregational church, is to go through what we went through alone would have been probably impossible. But to go through that crisis that we had in our diocese, with brothers and sisters from around the world, who physically were here too.

[30:39] Bishops came from Malawi, from different parts of, and from Asia, different parts of Africa, the United States. And they came to be with us. They represented millions of Anglicans.

[30:50] It made a great deal of difference to say, what we are standing for is not something that's an anomaly or some strange innovation. It is what is commonly held by, as I said, 85 or 90% of these 75 million Anglicans.

[31:06] Not only that, what we heard at Gathcon were many, many bishops and lay delegates from all over the world who suffered tremendously because of the gospel.

[31:18] Made our suffering look very tame. But facing physical abuse, the loss of their own homes and buildings, and being killed because they were Christian, because they held to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[31:36] It was just tremendously encouraging. And what came out of that was something called the Jerusalem Declaration. And I do recommend you go to gathcon.org to look at documents that are there.

[31:51] Because there's three really important ones that I would have you look at that I'm going to be talking about. One is the Jerusalem Declaration. And that just says, this is what unites us. This is the faith that unites us. It's a very good document.

[32:02] And it's something that we should all be quite aware of. Because it really does give hope for the mission, the future of the church. And I just put this because of the timing, because it was just a year later that St. John's joins ANIC.

[32:17] And this Gathcon movement represents 35 million Anglicans. And that number is very conservative. And this is a movement that's very, very definite and standing up.

[32:36] And that doesn't include many, many evangelical Christians in the Anglican Communion who are a little nervous about being active. Because one of the things that was thought at first was, is Gathcon a movement to leave the Anglican Communion?

[32:51] And their response, of course, was that, no, we don't want to leave the Anglican Communion. We are the Anglican Communion. And more and more are seeing the importance of this as being a movement that affirms the truth of the gospel.

[33:06] That says that Jesus is the living Lord of our lives. And, yeah. Okay, so they met a second time Gathcon did.

[33:16] By the way, Gathcon means Global Anglican Futures Conference. So if you say Gathcon Conference, it's redundant. So it's Global Anglican Futures Conference.

[33:27] And there's just some of the bishops that were there. So you can see. They had, you know, there were 1,400 delegates.

[33:38] And I think there was about, I don't know how many bishops of those there were. But there was hundreds of bishops. And I was there, too, in Nairobi. And I have to say that you come away from the conference, those conferences, feeling tremendously energized and hopeful for the future.

[34:00] Hopeful for the work of Jesus in the world, too. These people are coming from very often incredibly violent, difficult situations. And the gospel is really working there.

[34:11] We see things in the news, not realizing what God's doing behind the scenes in these places. So, now, what came out of the Nairobi Gathcon was something called a Gathcon communique.

[34:24] And I just want to give you a brief sense of that. Because it really talks about the way forward. So, the communique, what was written after that, was just saying, talking about grace.

[34:37] The sheer grace of God in setting us free from sin through the cross of Christ leads us into the enjoyment of our forgiveness and the desire to lead a holy life. You know, that was the thrust of things.

[34:48] It's very gospel-oriented. It's that we therefore commit ourselves and call on our brothers and sisters throughout the communion to join in rediscovering the power of the gospel and seeking boldness from the Holy Spirit to proclaim it with renewed vigor.

[35:00] That's the center of Anglicanism. You know, it is a missionary movement that's being reclaimed there. And there are basically three priorities that came out of it.

[35:12] One was to make disciples. And, you know, there were three areas they were talking about. One is about evangelizing the world. We must be committed to that. Where clear gospel witness has become obscured or lost and bring the gospel to unreached people.

[35:28] Well, in Canada, the gospel has become obscured or lost, for instance. And it's saying the Anglican Church is about bringing the gospel to these people who are unreached.

[35:40] The second thing about making disciples is that GAPCOM would support genuine gospel initiatives, recognizing there are times when the maintenance of structures can constrain the proclamation of the gospel.

[35:52] So if something is preventing the Anglican Church from proclaiming the gospel, there may need to be a change in the way things are structured. And there is, that may have to happen.

[36:08] And guarding the gospel, we shall continually publicly expose any false gospel that's not consistent with the apostolic teaching, clearly articulate the gospel in the church and in the world. So it's really being discerning.

[36:21] And to be clear about what the gospel is. This is what the Anglican Church is being called back to. Now, the second priority is to deepen that discipleship.

[36:33] And so what they've said is that there's many pressures on Christians today which require a degree of maturity in order to withstand them. And look how different these are, these pressures.

[36:44] There's aggressive secularism. Well, we know what that's about in Canada. There's militant Islamism, which many of the Anglican dioceses are dealing with. There's a seductive syncretism with religions of that area and with Christianity.

[37:02] And I would say that we deal with this in Canada, too. Don't we? And it introduces supposedly alternative approaches to God and thereby denies the uniqueness of Christ. So it recognizes that in discipleship.

[37:14] And then in that, it talks about suffering for the gospel and standing with those who do. There's a very strong theme in Gafcon in the Anglican Church right now.

[37:26] And then finally, the third priority has to do with gospel transformation. And what they said is that we must witness to the transforming effect of the gospel in working for the transformation of society.

[37:37] So that the values of the eternal kingdom can be seen here and now. And we therefore believe that it's right to engage in the public arena with gentleness and respect. Often the Anglican Church is well positioned to do this.

[37:50] To speak to the public arena. And we have a tradition of engaging with governments and structures that are country structures.

[38:03] Interestingly, many of the Anglican dioceses in, for instance, Africa, are very much respected by the government of the nation.

[38:15] And often close connections with the presidents, with those who are in authority. So the Anglican Church is very well positioned to do this. We should not shy away from engaging with the public arena with this gospel that transforms.

[38:30] It was a very strong call in Gafcon. Okay, so now I'm going to jump and talk about what has happened very recently. Does anybody have any questions about Gafcon, about that kind of worldwide movement that's been happening?

[38:48] Any questions about that? Okay. Now, how long do I have? Till about 10. 10 o'clock. Okay, so I got 12 minutes. Recently, what has happened is that in the summer, Canadian Orthodox Anglican bishops opposed a...

[39:06] It was really a motion to say, we're going to change the canon and say that we are going to marry people in same-sex relationships.

[39:17] And that was a very definitive move. Whereas lots of times they were trying to fudge it and do it kind of calling it blessings and so forth.

[39:28] They want to change the theology of the church. They're very open about it. And this was... And it was done in a very controversial way. It was done sort of last minute.

[39:41] But also the vote itself was defeated. And then somebody remembered, oh yeah, there was a vote that we missed. Or there was somebody who was supposed to vote with another house. So magically, it all passed the next day.

[39:54] Well, seven bishops who represent Anglicans in Algoma, which is northern Ontario, northern, you know, north shore of Lake Superior, Sault Ste. Marie over there.

[40:05] Two in the Arctic, who by the way, these two bishops in the Arctic were at Gathcon too. Wonderful guys. Athabasca, which is northern Alberta.

[40:18] Caledonia, which is northern BC. Saskatchewan, which is northern Saskatchewan. And the Yukon, all north. They put out a very strong statement.

[40:31] And I'll just read a little part of it for you and what they were saying. They said that we believe that our General Synod has erred grievously. And we publicly dissent from that decision.

[40:42] Because, they said, it's a fundamental departure from the faith and teaching held by the majority of the Anglican community on the doctrine of marriage. And so, they're trying to sort out what they're going to do.

[40:55] And lots of Anglican, I would say a number of Anglican clergy, are trying to figure out what to do next. And certainly, they have contacted ANIC, which we're part of, to just explore what can be done.

[41:08] And we have reached out to them and said, we want to support you in any way you can, any way we can. So, it's a hard time for them. It's a wake-up call, I think, finally.

[41:22] But we don't know what will happen with them. But what you see here is yet another province actually departing from the Anglican communion's belief and teaching.

[41:34] The United States did it. Canada's doing it now, too. And the church in Scotland is doing it right now, too. And so, they are very willfully saying, we will reject the teaching of the majority, knowing that they will risk some sort of repercussion.

[41:52] But, one of the instruments of unity, the Archbishop Canterbury, has been, it seems to be increasingly less effective in dealing with this.

[42:05] Which is unfortunate, because he is an evangelical. He is a believer. But he's also very much enmeshed in all of the politics of the Church of England and the Anglican communion.

[42:17] So, this is just heightening the crisis that's going on. And you see how important that movement was of unity, the Gafcon movement that we're part of.

[42:28] It offers hope to bishops like this and clergy and lay people who are saying, we're in a church that's leaving the Bible. We're in a church that's leaving the Anglican communion.

[42:39] Where do we go? So, anyway, there's a highlight for the need for unity there. Now, what has happened last week is that the Global South Conference met in Cairo, just last week.

[42:56] And this is a group of people, which is very interesting. There's Gafcon, which is kind of like a subset of the Global South. The Global South was getting together, and it's a bigger group of people than Gafcon.

[43:12] It hasn't been so much a movement as sort of standing up and saying, there's something wrong here, and affirming what they believe. There's lots of commonality between Global South and Gafcon.

[43:24] Lots of bishops that are in both. It's a bigger group that's more, I would say, wary of making moves that are too controversial.

[43:38] But what has happened here is that you see more and more and more are coming together of the Gafcon provinces in the Global South. In fact, they're very much intertwined in lots of ways.

[43:51] They put out a common statement on human sexuality during that week. And I want you to know that that group is huge.

[44:06] You know, you're talking about 70%, 80% of the Anglican Communion. And they officially recognize that the Anglican Church of North America... I'll give you a quick teaching here.

[44:19] Canada, ANIC, is one diocese in the Anglican Church of North America, that province, which is the United States and Canada. There are 30 dioceses.

[44:29] We are one of the 30 dioceses. And we are an extremely large geographical diocese. It's all of Canada right now. And we have about 5,000 to 6,000 members that are at church every Sunday.

[44:42] So it's probably a few more people who are members. And there are about 74 churches. Some are church plants. And I would say of that 74, 25 would be have a full-time rector.

[44:58] The other are church plants that are part-time people. And so the Anglican Church of North America, that province we're part of, is officially recognized as being part of the Anglican Communion by these guys.

[45:10] And the Archbishop of Canterbury has not officially recognized ACNA yet.

[45:21] And there's political reasons for that. Because it would deeply trouble the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada. The head of ACNA right now is a guy named Archbishop Foley, who will be here for Synod.

[45:35] By the way, you can come to the Synod service on the Wednesday, the 26th. But anyway, he was invited to a primates meeting that the Archbishop of Canterbury held last January.

[45:48] And he was here. And he was one of the keynote speakers as well. So it's a very strong connection with what we're about in ACNA and the wider Anglican world. I just want to read one thing from this communique, which I think is quite...

[46:06] You know, I can... Okay, so it closes by saying that the present and potentially escalating crisis poses challenges to the global self in shepherding her people.

[46:20] And we recognize the need for our enhanced ecclesial responsibility. We need to strengthen our doctrinal teaching, our ecclesiastical ordering, and our collective life as a global fellowship. And the flourishing of our gift for one anotherness of our mission, which is the mission of the gospel.

[46:36] So again, you're hearing lots of similarities with GAFCON. And I believe these are really coming together. GAFCON will take place in Jerusalem in 2018.

[46:49] Again, there will be another one. And what... And I think I'll... I'm going to close with talking a little bit about this. In a broad brush, what I see happening is those four instruments of unity that we talked about, as we heard, are ineffective now.

[47:09] And what's happening in the church is that a new sort of structure is being created that's actually a movement. It's a movement that's a missionary movement.

[47:20] It's a movement that includes people from very different languages and cultures. So at GAFCON, there were 44 different countries present.

[47:32] And it was remarkable to hear them worshiping together and being part of that. Well, that movement is what will bring unity to the Anglican communion.

[47:43] And it's growing. It's very strong. And it's very... And there are great differences from the structure that is supposed to do the same kind of thing.

[47:57] It's actually providing. God is providing what is lacking in those four instruments of unity. And we don't know what that will look like in the future, what the role of the Archbishop of Canterbury will be, what the role of Lambeth.

[48:10] They had to postpone Lambeth for two years to 2020. It was supposed to take place in 2018 because it was clear that there was so much division.

[48:25] There's two different religions, really, is what I think it comes down to. So who knows what will happen with those instruments of unity. But God clearly is providing something that is far, far more effective.

[48:38] And it gives us great hope as well. It's a great strength for us at St. John's and Annette, too. And it's interesting, John, you were in the United States, too, and saw what was going on there.

[48:51] You were in Washington, D.C.? Yeah. Did you guys feel quite connected to the wider church? Yeah. Our rector tried to join the Episcopal Church years ago, but they wouldn't ordain him because he's evangelical.

[49:10] And he tried for years, and they just kept saying no, I guess. And so he was ordained by one of the archbishops in Africa. And so our church was actually under the leadership of Uganda or someone like that.

[49:27] I forget. Yeah. So pretty interesting. And I'll say just a quick word about that, too. In the United States, more so than Canada, but there are dozens of kind of splinter Anglican groups because of the lack of leadership and the lack of teaching of the gospel.

[49:46] And so you had dozens of these groups everywhere. And what's been happening, this is another thing that God's doing through ACNA, is that those groups are all being brought together. It's a slow, sometimes difficult process, but there's a clear movement of bringing them together into one church, which is quite marvelous to see.

[50:03] Lots of hiccups. But it happened. And that's an example of it. So he was brought in, your rector, through African church. Yeah, Dan and Clara. Okay, no, I don't.

[50:14] Okay. Yeah. And so then those African churches are then releasing them into the Anglican Church of North America slowly. Yeah, and it was a mission of, like, the Diocese of Uganda, our church in Washington, D.C.

[50:27] So it's just, it's turning the world on its path. Yes. And so you see the missionary thrust from, you know, the center of the church, which is really Africa, back to the United States.

[50:39] Yeah. Yeah. I'm having trouble with understanding what is ACNA. Okay. Here's, and we have a problem in the Anglican Church with acronyms.

[50:50] So to keep it very simple, we'll just use two. ACNA is the Anglican Church of North America. So that's the province. The whole province is the big set.

[51:01] And then we are one of 30 dioceses within that. And we're called the Anglican Network in Canada. And it's a little confusing because we're a different country. So ACNA is one of, but didn't you say ACNA is one of 37 provinces as well.

[51:16] Yeah, 37 provinces? Yeah, throughout the world. Yeah. So worldwide, there's all these provinces. And so ACNA, that big entity, is one of about 37.

[51:29] And then Anic is one of 30? Yes. 30 dioceses within that province. And that's a very good question because we need to be clear about that. Yeah.

[51:39] Yes. And within the big category, liberal Anglicans, do you discern, I mean, this is a hopeful piece of position here on my own part, are there fault lines within that big Anglican world, a liberal Anglicanism world, where some are obviously aggressive, others might settle for a pastoral liberalism, but an orthodox theology.

[52:03] Are there those fault lines? Is there any hope there? Or maybe they don't exist. Well, they certainly exist because you're right. I mean, there's a diversity within that liberalism. Yeah, it's much more complex than that.

[52:15] But there is a real fear that things will fall apart. And so those groups are willing to kind of put up with their differences because they see a larger problem is that they could be marginalized.

[52:36] You know, the sanctions against the United States, for instance, that somehow they would be forced out of the Anglican Communion. They want to stay in. They want to be able to have their cake and eat it too. Be part of a big fellowship, but hold to unorthodoxy, hold to heresy.

[52:54] And yeah, within that group, there's a real range. And I don't know what all the fault lines are there, but they're certainly there. Yeah. I'll go here and then.

[53:04] Do we have any idea what the current bishop of the Diocese of New Westminster thinks about all of this? Has there been any change in attitude?

[53:17] Well, you know, I think David Short's fine with me telling you that he met with her. In fact, I know it's okay because she's, and she was very warm and friendly and it was the right time to meet.

[53:29] And really his goal was to say the reason that we left you was not because we were angry with you. It was because of the Bible.

[53:40] It was because we could not stay and we needed to stay with the Anglican Communion and with the gospel. And we have no bitter feelings towards you or we've forgiven you of anything that has happened.

[53:52] And we want, I want you to know that. And so it was a very happy meeting. She took a picture. She said, oh, she said, look at us meeting together. So she did a selfie with the two of them and put it up on Instagram or somewhere. But, you know, theologically she would be very similar to Michael Ingham though.

[54:10] You know, she's very liberal. But she's also a very nice person and wants people to get along. But certainly theologically it's a very similar situation. Can we share this question?

[54:23] Did we have a chance to sell our Shannes' building at least back at that time? We never had a chance to. We tried to. I mean, years ago we tried to. Now it's become very, it's really an impossible situation because the, where they met with St.

[54:38] John's Shannes' because the diocese has either bought or took a long-term lease out on half the property, renovated it, and that's where their headquarters are. The diocese of New Westminster has its headquarters there.

[54:49] So they'll be able to continue on with that because they're paying the rent. But they have no intention of selling that back to us. But did the building belong to the congregation, isn't it?

[55:00] No, that was the whole thing that was discovered is that it didn't belong to us. So that's why we had a long court case. Yeah. I'm going to go over here and then John. All right. Yeah, Zoltan.

[55:12] Maybe you don't know the answer to this or maybe you can get a chance. But why do they want to stay? If the broader communion is Orthodox, I mean, you know, if you had examples that you mentioned you alluded to the Methodists earlier, that was an offshoot.

[55:25] You had examples in the past of moving us out. Yeah. Why wouldn't they move out, you know, or is that, I don't understand why they didn't want to stay there. Well, I think, I mean, Jim Packer might be able to help with this too.

[55:38] I think one of the reasons they want to stay is because they believe that they are the center of Anglicanism. And certainly the power structures, the traditional power structures are dominated by that group too.

[55:49] And it's very hard to leave that and turn it over. Now, the fact of the matter is, is God in his wisdom is showing that the real power, the power of the gospel is now located in Africa and Southeast Asia.

[56:04] And so, you know, the average Anglican is 25 years old and a black woman from Africa. So that's the norm, right?

[56:15] It's not somebody who's white from England. So, but, you know, they still want to maintain that sort of, that power structure.

[56:28] And the Church of England is unique because it's very much bound in the whole fabric of the society and the politics of the nation too. So it's very complicated that way too.

[56:39] So I, they would not just give over all of that. Yeah. And it's, it is complicated because, you know, these movements are often kind of slow towards, it's a slow decline of liberalism.

[56:51] And so they're not seeing that they're doing something radical. There's a lot of deception, I find, in all of this. Yeah. Yeah, try it.

[57:03] It's interesting that Archbishop Foley Veach is the Archbishop of the American Church and yet is primate. He's primate over two sovereign nations, Canada and the U.S.

[57:18] Yeah. Which is really interesting. Yeah, but you get that in a number of places, like in Malaysia, for instance, that the Archbishop who might be located there is in charge, the Southeast Asia, he's, he's in charge of Thailand, Burma, I mean, Myanmar, Nepal, Singapore and Malaysia.

[57:38] So, so that, that's the case for a number of areas in the, in the Anglican world. Yeah. Now I, I'm going to go over here and then here. George.

[57:49] You mentioned theological education. Yeah. And of course we have Regent College here. What is happening in general to theological education?

[57:59] It's institutions. That's a very good question. In the United States, and I'm, you know, talking locally, in the United States there's a place in Pittsburgh called Trinity, which is very evangelical, mission-minded, a wonderful place.

[58:11] I've taken lots of courses there. Jim Packer teaches, has taught there a number of times. Uh, and then there's a place called Neshota House in Wisconsin, which is very Anglo-Catholic, but very much committed to the gospel as well.

[58:23] And then here in Canada, Regent is really the primary place where, um, evangelical Anglicans are being trained, interestingly. And the interesting thing is, it's not really, it's not an Anglican institution.

[58:35] Uh, and people, yet people come there, there may be some in this room actually from non-Anglican backgrounds and, uh, end up exploring Anglicanism and end up going into ministry in the Anglican church.

[58:47] So, you know, I would say Regent is, Wycliffe College, uh, traditionally was too, and they, they have a good new, um, principal as well, Mark Andrews. I think you know Mark, don't you, Jim?

[58:59] Mark Andrews? Well, personally, no. Oh, okay. He used to come to St. John's years ago, but, um, you know, he was a bishop in Algoma. He was one of the ones who signed on that. I call him Steve Andrews, and I don't even point what.

[59:13] It's Steve, not Mark. I have a friend named Mark, who's also at Wycliffe. Jim thinks much more clearly than I do. So, what do you think of Steve Andrews being the, the principal of Wycliffe College?

[59:30] Sign of great hope. Okay. Which, if one trusts, will be reclaimed under his leadership. Reclaimed, I mean, for the, uh, what does one say?

[59:44] For the gospel ministry with teeth. So there's, you know, in North America, that's really what we have, and that is a hopeful thing, you know, to have four seminaries that are, that are providing leadership, so.

[60:01] Uh, Beth, and then John, and then Kurt. Yeah. Um, you mentioned that, uh, um, uh, Justin Mulvey, um, hadn't yet, uh, recognized Acne, and you saw that as, sort of, he was in a bit of a, he's in a bit of a bot.

[60:23] Yes, definitely. Um, there's no signs that he's going to do that. Well, yeah, the longer that Acne exists, as it may, it's bigger than a lot of provinces are actually now, as far as numbers.

[60:37] You can't ignore it. And, uh, he did invite Archbishop Foley to that primates meeting, which is a significant step. So, he has not officially yet, but he has, um, he has definitely made movement towards that.

[60:53] Yeah. But it is, he's a political person, and he's going to be careful about that. In some ways, it doesn't matter, you know, especially now, as we see where the movement of unity is going.

[61:04] But, uh, you know, we'll see what happens with it. Uh, John. Yeah, you know, with the bishops, our previous one, present bishoping, to my met, very, very smooth-running people, person, skill.

[61:17] But just curious, now they allow, say, the best blessings in the diocese, it's allowed. How many of them actually have been performed in the diocese? I don't know. I have no idea. How many actually do it in Canada?

[61:29] I don't know. It's not a huge number. Uh-huh. Yeah. Kurt? It was brought up last, last time you spoke, that, um, the Episcopal Church has a very large purse. Yeah.

[61:40] And they have the money, and, uh, yeah. There's another... Yeah. The money is all in endowments and investments. It's, it's a church that's in decline, serious decline. But they have massive, um, um, resources in property and investments.

[61:55] Trinity Wall Street, for instance. They send millions of dollars overseas based on their investments. I mean, they, they own hundreds of millions of dollars worth of real estate in Manhattan.

[62:06] So you have churches like that because the Episcopal Church was the establishment church in the United States, um, you know, as it was being developed. So, anyway, yes, there's lots of money.

[62:18] And so they, they, you know, they give $400,000, for instance, to, for the Anglican Consultative Council to meet. So, there's, there's lots of money coming from there. And a declining number of people going to church.

[62:30] Yeah. Sheila? We had two Anglican churches that didn't wait for the network to form and identified themselves with African bishops. Mm-hmm.

[62:40] Are they in Anic yet? Yeah, there were more than that. And almost all of them except two. So there were, I think, eight. And all of them have joined Anic except for, uh, three. Four.

[62:52] Four churches. And, uh, they have a bishop, Silas Ng, who is in Richmond. Uh, so that's very, very small. And, you know, they, they are in talks to have the rest of them come at some point, too.

[63:04] Yeah. That's part of that movement of all these different Anglicans joining together in unity around the gospel. Yeah. Okay, I think that means I'm supposed to stop, right?

[63:17] No, you can, you can go to the end of the music. Well, okay. So we have 30 seconds, yes? Yes. That's what the music is. Many, or so many academic institutions and theological institutions have, um, had a slow creep of liberalism.

[63:33] Um, in his, historically we've seen that where, I mean, it's sort of one thing. Thoroughly Christian, not at all. Yeah. Um, do you see, I mean, you're just practicing as of this, but, um, where do you see Regent College and or Trinity Western University, uh, in that, um, spectrum?

[63:57] Well, well. Where do they stand at this point? Well. Is there any slip? Is there any, or are they, are they stalwart? Well, from my standpoint, they're very stalwart.

[64:08] And it's a, it's a deep blessing to the church. And I don't know if you would, if you would add to that, um, Dr. Packer, what, what your understanding is about Regent and, uh, Trinity Western as far as, as, you know, are they sort of maintaining that commitment to the gospel?

[64:26] Is there some slippage because of the pressure from society? What, what is happening there? The idea that there's some slippage is actually quite widespread, I find.

[64:39] I don't believe it. I think there has been some looseness. But it's not a looseness on purpose.

[64:50] It's a looseness that has happened because of, um, limits and sometimes, uh, false steps at government, at the level of college, university government.

[65:06] Mm. And I think that those, uh, loosenesses are being tightened up at the moment. You have, I think, referred to the fact that Regent has a new president.

[65:21] And, um, I think I'm in a position to say that, uh, he has seen his first job as tightening up at that point.

[65:34] And he's doing it. Mm-hmm. And he is a man who, in terms of gifts, experience, overall versatility and ability, is up to the mark.

[65:50] Mm-hmm. So, I think he's succeeding, clearly succeeding, in what he's doing. And that makes the future hope for Regent very bright.

[66:04] There you go. What a great note to end that.