Following the Right People

[0:00] Let's pray together then. Father, thank you for the privilege it is to gather together to look at your word, to try to understand more of who you are, what you have for us in our lives.

[0:14] We want to know you so that we might love you more deeply. And I just thank you that you touch on so many different aspects of our lives and things that we need.

[0:25] And I pray that you would grant us wisdom and illumination today in what we see. In Christ's name we pray. Come on in, Larry. We're going to be in Philippians.

[0:41] Philippians chapter 3, verse 17 through 21. And as we kind of get going here, I just wanted to give a couple reminders about some things.

[0:52] Number one, what we're doing is we are going verse by verse. Now, when you say that, some people mean that they'll deal with just one verse at a time.

[1:06] But the Bible was not written in a million separate verses. As a matter of fact, the chapter and verse markings that we have in our Bible didn't come about until the 1200s.

[1:18] Right? Paul didn't sit down with Philippians and go, chapter 1, verse 1. Paul, an apostle. That's just not what happened. Right?

[1:28] He just was writing a letter. We have put this structure on it after the fact so that we could make reference to it easier.

[1:40] Right? So, when we say we do verse by verse, what we're really meaning is we're doing kind of thought by thought. And what happens when you do that?

[1:50] When you force yourself to read every verse, to cover every verse, you will cover every topic the Bible has to talk about. So, one of the things that that does, there's always the accusation against pastors in this chapter that they like to just talk about their favorite subjects and they just cherry pick.

[2:11] So, you'll get that with, well, all he ever talks about is people getting saved. Or all he ever talks about is money. That's a big one that some people talk about. But my contention is this, is that if we go through verse by verse, we will have to deal with every single topic.

[2:27] Even the topics that are hard, topics that are uncomfortable. Because what we want is we want God's mind about the world.

[2:39] So often what we do is we expect that maybe God's going to give us his mind about the world and our life through just being quiet before him and praying.

[2:50] But the truth of the matter is that God has already told us his mind in the word. So we already know what he thinks. And so that's why we study the Bible verse by verse.

[3:03] We're trying to capture the big ideas and understand what's going on. And so with that, what we're talking about this morning is something that maybe none of us would have ever thought that we would be talking about.

[3:17] But it's a great, great subject. And it's one that's actually very dear to my heart, to Michelle's heart, as we have tried to do ministry. We've seen ministry done in so many different ways.

[3:30] And over the last 10, 15 years, we have been trying to develop and move in different directions with the way most ministries go. And I think that you'll see this as we kind of progress through the passage.

[3:45] And maybe hopefully over the course of several years, you'll begin to kind of get a grip on how it is we think of ministry very differently from what others do. So our passage, Philippians chapter 3, verse 17 through 21.

[3:58] Let me read it, the whole passage, and then we'll jump into it. Brethren, join in following my example and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.

[4:14] For many walk, of whom I've often told you and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose God is their appetite, whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

[4:35] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

[5:03] That's a great passage. It's got some complexity in there, but really, it's going to break down into the three points that I have on your paper. Paul gives a couple of commands, then he gives some negative reasons for obeying those commands, then he gives some positive reasons for obeying those commands.

[5:23] And so that's what I want us to look at. So let's take a look then, just at verse 17. Verse 17, he's got two commands in here, and let me ask you this first of all.

[5:35] Who is he commanding? Let's just go back and remember who he's giving these commands to. Brethren. Brethren. And who are these brethren that he's talking to?

[5:49] The what? Fellow Christians. Fellow Christians. Of the church. Of that church, right? This is the Philippian church. He's talking to the church. He's talking to Christians.

[6:01] They're the ones who are getting these commands. I think that's important because this is not just to anybody and everybody. This is to Christians.

[6:13] So he's giving them two commands. Right? Can you tell what the commands are in this verse? There's two of them. What are the commands?

[6:24] They're following his example. Okay. Join and following his example. Live accordingly. Who walk accordingly. Okay. So who's doing the walking in this passage?

[6:40] It's somebody else. Right? It's who walk according to the pattern. So he wants them to join and observe. So those are the two commands.

[6:51] All right? He wants them to join and following his example. What example do the Philippians have from Paul?

[7:07] Now you're going to have to think maybe a little outside of this verse. But what example has he set for them that they could follow? Think about what we've already seen in chapter 1, 2, and 3 so far.

[7:22] What are some of the things that he's talked about? Following Jesus' example. Well, yes. We would say that Paul definitely is following Jesus' example.

[7:34] And so he says, follow my example. But I want to get some specifics about that behavior. What does that behavior look like? What has he told them in chapters 1, 2, and 3 about his own behavior?

[7:44] Stick to your guns and follow the teachings here. And don't give in. Even though you're persecuted, it's going to be rough. But stick to it.

[7:55] Right? And I think that comes out real clearly when he starts talking about that he's in prison. And he doesn't care whether he dies or whether he lives.

[8:05] Like he wants to. He would rather die so he'd go and be with the Lord. Right? And he knows that this persecution of this imprisonment. So, right. Exactly. Verse, that's chapter 1.

[8:16] Chapter 2. What are some of the things he deals with in chapter 2? Focus on our life in heaven and us on worldly activity now.

[8:31] But I don't know if that's chapter 2. No. There could be some parts of chapter 2. But that kind of, to me, goes back to that chapter 1 we were just talking about. And I think that's also a key thing. We should not be of...

[8:44] Have you ever heard the phrase, you can't be so heavenly minded that you're of no earthly good? That's an impossibility. None of us are that heavenly minded.

[8:54] We are all extremely earthly minded. And we have to fight against that. And so that's what I think... Jack, I think that's what Paul is saying there too. I want... My mind needs to be in heaven for the Lord.

[9:06] You know? So, Paul has said that... You go to chapter 2 and he starts talking about Timothy and Epaphroditus. Or Epaphroditus. However you want to say that. And his prayers for them.

[9:18] His encouragement about following such people like this. You get to chapter 3 and he talks about everything. That I had as gain for me. I count it as loss. As a matter of fact, it's rubbish.

[9:29] That is the kind of example that we're thinking about here. That Paul's talking about. He's kind of laid out his own behavior. And what he's doing. And he's not saying, listen, just follow my example.

[9:41] And it's super abstract. Serve and be the best person you can. Yes. He's also talking about humility. That's right. Yeah. In chapter 2 we got the whole humility thing.

[9:52] Okay. So that's the example. But then he says, observe what? What are they to observe? Those who walk.

[10:03] Those who walk according to the pattern. Now pattern sounds a lot like example to me. Does it to you? Yes.

[10:14] So he's got an example. And there's these other people that have the pattern. And this pattern looks like what? It looks like us. So Paul's got a way that he's lived.

[10:28] There are other people who have a way that they have lived. And he says, join and following this example. Observe these people as well.

[10:39] So in other words, there's a lot of looking going on here. Right? Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. But really what he wants them to do is he wants them to follow the example.

[10:51] He wants them to follow the example. Here's what this... This is the way I would narrow this down or summarize this. Paul is telling the Philippians, get yourself a mentor.

[11:03] Get yourself a mentor. Have someone in your life who is down the road spiritually further than you.

[11:16] Who follows this example and you follow them. You follow them. That's what a mentor is.

[11:27] And here's what I would say even about this whole thing. And that is this, that every person should have two people in their lives. Every Christian should have two people in their lives.

[11:39] You should have somebody who's mentoring you. And you should have someone that you are mentoring. That's the way the Christian faith is passed on.

[11:50] It's person to person. It's called discipleship. So often we've said discipleship is more about showing up for a program. But really discipleship is about life on life, sitting together and going through the Bible.

[12:06] Holding accountable, encouraging faith, praying together and strengthening one another in order to be pleasing to the Lord. And so I think that's what Paul is arguing for here.

[12:19] He says this is how you should live. Be a mentor. Get a mentor. Yes. You know this example that he's trying to get across about people being observant of how they act and function.

[12:35] It reminds me of how when small children are just like sponges and they absorb everything around them. And you don't realize that you say a bad word all the time or that you act a certain way until you see this little mirror right back in you.

[12:52] And that's what I think when he says this, applicably in a simple form, is like you've got little eyes on you all the time. So behave. You know, follow a Christian way.

[13:03] It's so interesting to me, the metaphor of family. You think about brothers and sisters, right? Because that's the way we are to one another.

[13:14] We're brothers and sisters in Christ. We're all children of God. And so the idea that we can watch in a family and watch the dynamics of whether it's a parent-child or whether it's a sibling relationship, particularly older siblings to younger siblings.

[13:29] Some of that gets abused and it's like, you know, I'm going to tell you what to do as the older sibling. And some of it is, you know, I just love my older brother or sister and following that example. I think the metaphor of family is used by God on purpose to help us sort of see because we are, whether we like it or not, we are mentoring and demonstrating to people an example of how to live with everything we do.

[13:53] And so we need to make it a good example and we need to be intentional about what we're doing. So that's a great point. What you said there in everything we do.

[14:04] When a person is non-Christian, God looks at the heart.

[14:16] Mankind does not. You've got a lost soul there. What do you think first look at as a Christian? How you dress. Secondly, how you dress.

[14:28] Secondly, they listen to what comes out of your mouth. This man made a lot of sense because I can remember in history, years ago, being at a funeral and a woman came up to me and she says, I do not know what it is about you.

[14:47] You are different. I say, good or bad? She says, it's very, very good. It made me stop and think. That's cool. How people look at us.

[14:58] Sure. They don't see our heart. God does. Yeah. They're not going to know our heart until they get through the exterior. Yeah. And there is an importance in just about everything that we do and say.

[15:10] I'd like to submit that I don't look to what people wear so much as I try to look at the person in their heart and who they are. Yeah. You're a Christian. That's what I'm talking about.

[15:22] It's a non-Christian person winning souls for Christ. It was a lesson to me because I realized I don't look through the life of an unsaved person.

[15:33] What are they looking through? Well, you know, one of the big things to remember about a non-Christian is that the scriptures teach us over and over again that non-Christians have a darkened understanding that their heart is wicked.

[15:45] They're dead in their sins. That no one seeks for God. No one loves God. No one does what's righteous. A sinner is somebody who hates God. So, the focus ought to be that in this lesson today how we are focusing on believers because we're not called to mentor lost people.

[16:04] We're called to mentor Christians. And so, I want you to think about your life. Paul's going to give us reasons now. He's going to give us negative reasons and positive reasons why we should do this.

[16:15] And this negative reason, it's a little gut-wrenching. Okay? Listen to what he says. He says, Paul is telling them about people who exist that they obviously need to avoid.

[16:49] But how does Paul feel about this subject? Can you tell how he feels? What does he say? What's the one word that shows how he feels?

[17:00] Weeping. Weeping. That word, that is a very interesting word. There's several Greek words for crying or weeping in the Bible. John's gospel, chapter 11, the death of Lazarus is a good example.

[17:15] We know that there are people weeping. We know Jesus wept. And those are two different Greek words. And here's the difference. Mary and Martha, they lose Lazarus. And they have around them a group of people who are wailing.

[17:28] Okay? They're wailing. Now, in John's gospel, that group of people who are wailing with her, they are all what you call paid mourners. That was something in their society.

[17:40] It's a little bit, it's kind of coming to our society in the way of a funeral home. Okay? Like if you go to a funeral home, they have people who are hired in that place to be there for you and with you.

[17:51] It's similar to that? Not exactly. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. They're just paid mourners. And they're with the family. And they are wailing out loud. That's just the way that they're crying.

[18:02] The other crying is like a single tear. Like a kind of a... It's like passion under control.

[18:13] Does that make sense? Where it's like extremely distraught, but it's not uncontrolled. You could see it as like a single tear. Kind of that smoldering single tear of that crying.

[18:26] Maybe smoldering is the wrong word. But you get the feeling after there? Jesus, when he wept, had that sort of crying. He didn't have the loud wailing that was uncontrolled.

[18:40] Because Jesus was never out of control. Paul, however, when he says that he's weeping, he's like the paid mourners. He's wailing. He sees these people who are enemies of the cross of Christ.

[18:53] Now, look what he says. He says, I've often told you and now tell you. He's already talked to them about these people. Who do you think they are? Enemies of the cross.

[19:05] They're enemies of the cross. Go back to the first of chapter 3. And he talks about these people who want to... They're Judaizers. They're telling these Gentiles, just like the book of Galatians, to be a real Christian, you have to submit to circumcision.

[19:24] And Paul is saying that he's wailing over them. He knows that they're enemies of the cross. I mean, think about this threefold sort of description of them.

[19:37] Whose end is destruction. What does it mean that their end is destruction? They're not going to heaven. That's exactly right. This is... They're headed for hell. Whose God is their appetite.

[19:50] What does that mean? And this is a fun little thought here. It helps us with our own sanctification. Think about this. What do you hunger for?

[20:01] Exactly. And so your appetite becomes your God. What we want can become our God.

[20:15] Okay, see this in a small way with like a child, right? You can take a two-year-old child and you take a toy away from them and they will begin to wail and cry.

[20:26] Maybe you had to take it away because of discipline. But they want that toy back and they are willing to do whatever they want, whatever they can think of to get it. If they're undisciplined, they might come to mom and try to hit mom to get that back, right?

[20:40] Their appetite for that toy is so strong that that desire rules their heart. Now I can see that easily in a little toddler, but here's the thing.

[20:52] You and I do that as well. You think about any time you've ever been angry. When you were angry, you had something ruling your heart besides God.

[21:07] Now is there a way that anger could not be sure? But I would venture to say 90% of the time, maybe 99% of the time, our anger is not godly. So this is who they are.

[21:20] They're ruled by their desires. And he says, whose glory is their shame. So their own self-boasting, elevating themselves, their minds are on earthly things.

[21:34] What does it mean to have your minds on earthly things? Usually it's something that me as an individual, lust for or wants or keeping up with the Joneses, earthly things, it's nothing to do with heaven or God.

[21:49] Sure, sure. When I hear lust, when I hear the word lust, I always think negatively. And I don't think earthly things have to be negative things. Right? That's what Jesus is talking about in Matthew.

[22:02] Right? Do not worry then what you will eat or what you will drink or what you will wear. For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things. For your Heavenly Father knows that you need them.

[22:13] But instead, seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you. So don't worry about tomorrow for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

[22:24] When we worry about the necessities of life and we strive after them to the exclusion of God, right?

[22:36] Then we are earthly minded. That's crazy, isn't it? Now that doesn't give us an excuse to be lazy and not working. Right?

[22:47] We need to work. But that's who Paul's talking about here. He's encouraging the Philippians to find mentors that are godly who follow the pattern that Paul's laid down for them because there's a lot of ungodly people in this world who will look spiritual, who will look godly, but when you get into it and you begin to look closely, they're not.

[23:12] I mean, if you think about these people, I don't have it up there anymore, he calls them enemies of the cross of Christ. They were talking about who Jesus was.

[23:24] They knew that God existed. They believed that God existed. They believed that God had written the Bible. They were just saying that you need to be circumcised. One small little detail and yet they believe so much like we do.

[23:40] And Paul is saying there's a lot of people that'll fool you because they add something. They make something essential that's not essential. So, that's the negative reason.

[23:51] Let's look at the positive reason and we'll jump into some questions together. Verse 20 and 21. For our citizenship is in heaven from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

[24:24] So, these two verses they start with one idea and then it just kind of goes to another idea. There's a lot of ideas in these two verses.

[24:37] The starting point is citizenship. The ending point is subjecting all things to Himself. So, I thought I would try to help us a little bit. This is the path.

[24:48] Okay? He talks about citizenship that leads to talking about waiting. Waiting leads to talking about Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ leads to talking about He will transform the body and that leads to talking about the body of His glory and the body of His glory to the exertion of His power and exertion of His power to subject all things.

[25:08] This is typical of Paul. He just gets on this roll, right? He just gets on this roll and like from subject to subject to subject to subject and just has this lengthy thing and that's confusing because and some of you are writing this down.

[25:25] I need to wait now. Go ahead and write it down. If you're writing it down, I don't want to. But I've got to go back to the other verse and say what I was going to say.

[25:40] You good? Okay. So the reason that this is interesting is because in this passage the primary reason He gives for us to find a mentor is we are citizens in heaven.

[25:57] Everything else that He writes about in here is somehow subordinate to or supports or describes the concept and the idea of our citizenship in heaven.

[26:12] And so when you have this big string of things like that it's easy to miss the big picture. This is the big picture. Does that make sense? So you should find a mentor in your life and be a mentor because we are citizens of heaven not citizens of this earth.

[26:33] Now He does then describe a couple things. I'm going to put it in like three points and I think I put this in your notes for you. Right? One is that we're waiting for the Savior to return.

[26:44] As citizens of heaven we're waiting for Jesus to come back. The waiting is not a sit down and do nothing waiting.

[26:56] It's a be active and moving waiting. When we had our first child I had never in my life held a baby. and within the first two or three months that we've got this new baby Michelle says I need to go somewhere by myself and I need you to keep the baby.

[27:15] I don't know what it was. It could have been grocery store or it could have been she was going crazy because she was with both of us or whatever. I don't know. So she's leaving me with our oldest child. I was really nervous.

[27:28] I was super nervous. Michelle she's a pro. Her next sister to her is like 16 years or 12 years. What's the difference? The last one was 16.

[27:41] The one closest to her is like 12 years apart. Michelle has had lots of practice with kiddos. She's like a pro. She's the expert. She's leaving me with our child and I'm kind of going like which way do you hold this thing?

[27:54] She's been training me for the last few months. But the whole time I'm caring for the baby. I'm doing the diapers. I'm doing the food. I'm doing whatever I needed to do.

[28:05] And the whole time I'm looking out the window looking for the car to drive up. I'm active but I am waiting and eagerly anticipating.

[28:16] I think that's what this is. This is an eagerly waiting for the Savior that we're busy trying to share the gospel. We're busy trying to mentor others. We're part of the citizenship of heaven and we are eagerly waiting for Jesus to come back.

[28:31] I'm ready for him to come back. I'm ready. I'm ready. The second thing that's kind of the big idea here is that he's going to transform the body of our humble estate to conformity with the body of his glory.

[28:49] That right there, beloved, this is a part of what we're waiting for. Right? I mean, you look at this body, you know, I've only been here six months, and I can't say this, at my last church when I arrived there, my beard was red.

[29:09] And at the end of the time, my beard was gray. I get here and it's just gray, so I don't get to show you the difference in before and after. Being the president of the United States, that makes you so gray.

[29:21] Anyway, the point is that we are getting older, things are breaking down, we go to the doctor, we know this, this is the humble estate. Listen, it's not always going to be like this, right?

[29:37] It's not always going to be like this. He's going to transform our bodies. I want you to think about this, when we have a glorified body, it's going to be in conformity to his glorified body.

[29:49] And I just want to focus on one thing with a few verses here, okay? I think I have them written down for you, Luke 24, 13 through 16, and behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem, and they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place.

[30:10] While they were talking and discussing, Jesus himself approached and began traveling with them, but their eyes were prevented from recognizing him. Here's the point, he started traveling with them, and they didn't look at him like a ghost, they didn't look at him like, look at the aura of glow around him, like they didn't see any of these things, they just thought this is another human being, this is a person, okay?

[30:34] Hold that thought. Chapter 24, verse 39, see my hands, my feet, it is I myself, touch me, see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.

[30:45] The disciples could touch him, they could touch this glorified body, this glorified body had flesh and bones, it wasn't just spirit. He says in chapter 24, verse 42 and 43, they gave him a piece of broiled fish, he took it and he ate it before him.

[31:05] His glorified body was chowing down on fish sticks, you know what I'm saying? So like he's eating, he's eating, okay? Do I have another one?

[31:16] Yeah, Acts chapter 1, 9 through 11, and after he had said these things, he was lifted up while they were looking on and a cloud received him out of their sight.

[31:29] Now just think about that for a second. I'm standing like this and all of a sudden a cloud receives me and I go up in the sky. Of course we have to be outside otherwise I put my head on the ceiling. But we're there and he's going up on a cloud.

[31:42] Now I don't know about you, but right now if this body were to be on a cloud and start going up, it's going to get thinner out there. Right? What does God do with all of that?

[31:54] Because I don't think God lives out in space somewhere. Right? He doesn't live out in space somewhere. He is immaterial, so he is. But my point is this, that glorified body could experience that without a problem.

[32:11] It could experience that without a problem. Did he just fly off into space and then go into the spirit realm with his father? I don't know, but my point is this, if you and I right now climb this tree right over here, we're all going to be scared to death because we know if we slip, boom, that's a broken hip.

[32:29] And I don't want a broken hip. We can't even get 25 feet off the ground and here's Jesus in his glorified body all the way out of sight. What I'm trying to tell you is that our glorified body, we're going to get to shake hands, we're going to get to hug necks, we're going to get to eat food, we're going to get to run, and not gain weight.

[32:58] There's no more of these, there's no more of these, there's no more of these. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Yes.

[33:09] Hallelujah. You see, here's the problem. In our western culture, we have the concept that when we die and go to be with the Lord, that we become angels sitting on plows strunging harps.

[33:22] Angels are meant to be servants to the people of God. So if you become an angel, you will become less human. So you don't want to do that. Right? So we're not angels.

[33:33] Instead, we are people of God. And one day, when this is all over, we get full corporeal bodies that can run, that can eat, that can laugh, that can hug, that can kiss.

[33:44] What a glorious thing. Paul is saying, you're a citizen of heaven and these things are yours, so you need to find a mentor. I think there's a third thing that I have here.

[33:56] That he has the power to subject all things to himself. I think I put Matthew 28, 19, and 20. It should just be verse 18. Not verse 19 and 20.

[34:10] Verse 18, Jesus in all authority has been given to me on heaven and earth. He owns everything, and by that power he has subjected it to himself. So let's just go back to the beginning then and think about what we've got.

[34:24] We should have a mentor. We should be mentors because we're citizens of heaven, heaven, and being a citizen of heaven means that we know that the end is coming so we're waiting for Jesus.

[34:40] We know that we're going to be transformed so we need to be ready. And we know that Jesus owns everything so our life doesn't belong to us.

[34:53] Do I need to say that again? I think that's good stuff if you didn't understand it. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. It is not optional for the Christian to be or to have a mentor.

[35:07] This is something we're supposed to do. How do you find a mentor? How do you work with a mentor? That's my next question. Great question.

[35:20] So there's two things. There's two parts to this. Number one, you have to be a mentor. Number two, you have to mentor. And here's what I've found in my life. In my life, I'm just going to tell you as a pastor, I feel like that I have never.

[35:33] Jack and I sat down one day and he asked me, he says, who have been your mentors in your life? You know what my answer is? I don't feel like anybody has. So much of where I am is not because somebody else poured it to me.

[35:48] It's only by God's grace because I shouldn't be where I am. But I need a mentor. And here's the problem. And this is, I don't know how to break the cycle. people. I have talked to, I've worked at probably 13 different churches and in every one of those churches I went to the pastor and I said, would you disciple me?

[36:08] Would you mentor me? And none of them would. None of them would. Why? The reason is because churches tend, people within the church tend to put so much pressure on the performance of what's happening in a church that a pastor feels like he doesn't have time for it.

[36:26] If the baptism numbers don't rise up to a certain level or people's attendance starts failing down, people get offended, the pastor spends so much time fending off and putting out fires that in many cases he's thinking this youth minister is probably going to just be another fire.

[36:43] And so he doesn't take the time to do it. But here's the thing, it's not just pastors that have this problem. You think about your own life. When have you thought to yourself I need a mentor and you went to go ask somebody would you mentor me?

[36:56] I would dare say, I don't want any answers, but I would dare say that the majority of you haven't had mentors as well. Some of you probably have.

[37:07] I have. My dad, my grandmother, and the preacher I grew up under and I have been a mentor. That's awesome. So then here's the bottom line. The bottom line is think about first, the first step I think is to think about who could you mentor.

[37:24] mentor. I think that's the first step. Who could you mentor? Who could you take and meet with them on a regular basis, pray with them, walk them through scripture, walk them through a book, something, and just say, hey, let's get together, let's do this.

[37:40] It doesn't have to be face to face. It could be on a phone, it could be on a zoom, it could be, however, there's so much available to us technologically. You know, my problem is, how do you approach people that way?

[37:55] You know what I'm saying? Even spreading the word and, you know, just walk up to them and say, hey, let's sit down. I'm going to let Jack answer that. I'm not so sure that you have to have a certain script or whatever.

[38:09] It becomes natural for you. What happens is you meet people, you meet good people, and it becomes God's sin, it becomes happenstance that way.

[38:19] It's like, I'll meet people and I think that's a good soul, and we have a good conversation, and I think we need each other. And it happens kind of that way, more naturally.

[38:31] It doesn't mean to say that, I mean, I've been in formal mentoring things where you're going to be assigned three people to mentor type things before, but that's different for each individual.

[38:43] You know, I can see that. But I think you might have even said it a while ago, most of the mentors that I've ever had have been given to you from God. Well, mine has been given to me, but to be a mentor, to me, is more difficult.

[38:59] And you say you need to be intentional. I think you're saying that. I am. Intentional about it. I think you have to be open. I mean, to God, leading you to it.

[39:10] I will tell you one incident that happened to me recently, and happened in the grieving class. there's one woman that is in the same boat, no kids, no family.

[39:22] She lives in Kerrville. She's wanted to run to Brenham, which is a big mistake, where her family is. Something told me in class Monday to approach her.

[39:33] I did. I asked her to go to lunch. She immediately jumped on it. And as we talked, the things that came out and her needs came out as we sat there across the table.

[39:47] But what happened was, I said, here's my name, here's my telephone. Now give me your telephone, please, D. And she did. Before we parted, she says, by the way, I like to go to plays.

[40:02] I like to go to concerts. I like to do this and that. And I do like to go out to lunch. And I said, Lord, you're placing this person in my life to be a mentor to, to take care of her.

[40:17] Even though I'm in the same boat, you know, in a way. You know, I would also say that one of the things I've noticed in our life is that I think of it like throwing a pebble into the water and when the pebble hits, you've got these circles that go out.

[40:31] We all have a life like that. And it looks different for each one of us. But there I am in the center and I have people closest to me. For me, that happens to be my wife and my kids.

[40:44] So the first person that I seek to try to mentor is my wife. However, I will say there's a lot of mentoring that happens back this way sometimes.

[40:55] That's just the way it is. Then the second is my kids. And so my son and I, we have a phone call once a week. My wife, she talks with a couple of our daughters once a week where we're just trying to afford to them.

[41:09] And then outside of that, then it's like, okay, now my church family. Who in my church family can I approach? And even in this church, there's a couple of two or three men that I walked up to and I just said, hey, I want you to meet with me on a regular basis and let's go through a book together.

[41:23] And all three of them went kind of, okay. So I mean, you know, like, you just, sometimes the project's kind of overcoming the fear of rejection, you know, because I probably would have, you know, if they had said, no, I don't want to do that, I'd probably have been like, well, I'm going to wrap your house.

[41:41] It's reaching out. Yeah, it is reaching out. I would just like to add that if you were asking someone questions about their spiritual life, if you say, and they share, I'm having this struggle, and you say, well, how do you feel like you're doing spiritually?

[41:56] Are you leading in prayer? Are you talking to the Lord? How's your prayer life? However, if you bring up spiritual things and then they are willing to answer you, then that opens the door for you to say, well, you know, I'd love to encourage you in that.

[42:09] Would you want to meet together? And we'll just pray about these things together. And then you can say, well, what are you, and it helps you to see where they are and what they need help with. And I think that's a really good point for also this idea.

[42:23] That I'm kind of talking in a way that feels very formal, like I need to have a formal mentoring relationship. What Michelle's talking about is that this is just the way we should talk to one another as Christians.

[42:35] Right? We should talk to one another as Christians and just say, well, how is your spiritual life? How is that going? And the more that we do that, we have an opportunity to see where people are and then be able to dive in.

[42:46] I share my testimony. Because I have an awesome testimony. And then they just come to me. So I don't ask them.

[42:57] I let them tell me. Sure. Sure. If anybody here remembers Jack Binion, he was such a kind, soft-spoken gentleman. He's since passed away.

[43:07] But he did not call it mentorship. He called it fellowship. And he would drop into the core. And... ...